A Few Words Before I Go-Go: Macho Films
It’s the end of the summer, I’m about to leave on vacation, I’m under several deadlines at once, so I think I’ll spend these last few blogging days with briefer posts — though I will try to address the really important issues of the day.
For instance, the ten macho films every man must see. This is a Popular Mechanics list I found through the never-ending miracle of Instapundit. And not a bad list either. It actually does include several films that you must see if you’re a man and which, if you haven’t seen them, you’re probably not. Not that there’s anything wrong with not being a man, you understand. Unless, of course, you are one. Then you should be. But if you’re not, feel free to wear perfume and walk around in high heels. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. As long as you’re not a man. If you are, don’t.
Where was I? Oh yeah, the Pop Mech list isn’t bad. But it includes a couple that I really have to question. Possibly with a truncheon. I mean, The Wrath of Khan? Get a grip. Stone Cold? I don’t know, bro. And while I’ll accept Machete as macho despite its absurd politics, if you don’t want to watch it because of that, you definitely get a man pass.
To replace those three?
I think for John Wayne the best film is Rio Bravo, displaying in Wayne, Martin, Nelson and Brennan different stages (aspects?) of manliness.
That’s a fun movie. It’s always great when the good guys get to throw dynamite at the the bad guys.
Greetings KOTC:
Enjoy your summer break. Agree on your three rejects. Wrath of Khan hasn’t aged well. If it’s gonna be a Wayne pick I’d go with True Grit. I like the Maltese Falcon pick but then again I’m old fashioned. If we can allow macho humor then I have to go with Gunga Din. Pulp Fiction is a little nihlistic for my taste but full of testosterone.
Regards,
John
The 3 rejects are exactly the 3 movies in that list which I have not seen.
I’d replace 2 more: The Maltese Falcon, for its convoluted and improbable plot (maybe it gets better if you see it again); and 300, for a number of reasons: the Spartans introduced as tough as hell, and in the next scene, Leonidas behaves like a cuddly dad; the demand that all Spartans be able to fight as a phalanx, and then the Spartan phalanx is utterly unable to kill any enemy before they clash shields; a villain whose only interesting feature is his superhuman height; etc.
Now if I must choose 5 replacements, I’d start with Conan the Barbarian, Milius/Poledouris/Schwarzenegger edition.
Then at least one Kurosawa samurai movie, more like two. And what about 13 Assassins?
Tough choice for last place, but I guess it’s got to be The Man Who Would Be King.
All good choices, but then you have to be careful of redundancy between Kurosawa and Leone. The list needs to be longer than ten. Do we include war movies? Zulu?
Tombstone needs to be added to that list, go get a beer during the Kim Delaney parts though.
The Great Escape should be added as well, have your wife/girl bring you a beer while you watch it.
I love Tombstone. Look at that cast, everyone had a part. But I can’t believe Kurt Russell as Earp. I would even prefer Costner’s portrayal. But I would watch it even if nothing else was there to see but the Doc Holliday – Johnny Ringo set pieces. Those two fill up the screen and everything else recedes into the scenery. “I’m your huckleberry.”
Good call with Conan.
I don’t know about Goodfellas. The ending isn’t manly at all. And I’d replace Stone Cold with Cobra, Stallone shooting people without the baggage of characterization or plot.
And what about the British secret agent with a license to kill? Sean Connery, of course, since we’re talking about manliness. Then again, if I could only pick one Connery movie for this list, I might have to go with Highlander. Sigh. I like the idea of making this a top 20 list.
A few of my faves to consider: Zulu, Wake Island, Sgt York, High Noon, The Train, Khartoum, Attack!, The 300 Spartans (Richard Egan, 1961), Beau Geste, and most recently For Greater Glory. In addition to John Wayne, don’t forget Cagney! Starship Troopers may not be high art but on the machomscale it is way up there.
Starship Troopers – good God man! You HAVE to be kidding. That is the worst film adaptation of the best Science Fiction novel of the second half of the 20th Century. The.Very.Worst.
Fortunately, I hear that a remake is in the work that will do the novel justice. AND it will include power armor.
“To the everlasting glory of the infantry – Shines the name of Rodger Young!”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodger_Wilton_Young
A bit off topic, but speaking of Rodger Young, here’s West Point Cadet Glee Club singing The Ballad of Roger Young (1959)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MEJM0cboDg
1. Oh, they’ve got no time for glory in the Infantry.
Oh, they’ve got no use for praises loudly sung,
But in every soldier’s heart in all the Infantry
Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young.
Shines the name — Rodger Young,
Fought and died for the men he marched among.
To the everlasting glory of the Infantry
Lives the story of Private Rodger Young.
2. Caught in ambush lay a company of riflemen —
Just grenades against machine guns in the gloom —
Caught in ambush till this one of twenty riflemen
Volunteered, volunteered to meet his doom.
Volunteered — Rodger Young,
Fought and died for the men he marched among.
In the everlasting annals of the Infantry
Glows the last deed of Private Rodger Young.
3. It was he who drew the fire of the enemy
That a company of men might live to fight;
And before the deadly fire of the enemy
Stood the man, stood the man we hail tonight.
Stood the man — Rodger Young,
Fought and died for the men he marched among.
Like the everlasting courage of the Infantry
Was the last deed of Private Rodger Young.
4. On the island of New Georgia in the Solomons,
Stands a simple wooden cross alone to tell
That beneath the silent coral of the Solomons,
Sleeps a man, sleeps a man remembered well.
Sleeps a man — Rodger Young,
Fought and died for the men he marched among.
In the everlasting spirit of the Infantry
Breathes the spirit of Private Rodger Young.
5. No, they’ve got no time for glory in the Infantry,
No, they’ve got no use for praises loudly sung,
But in every soldier’s heart in all the Infantry
Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young.
Shines the name — Rodger Young,
Fought and died for the men he marched among.
To the everlasting glory of the Infantry
Lives the story of Private Rodger Young.
Tinsmith:
That’s a good list. Beau Geste! Nice Gary Cooper selection. I like that someone included Khartoum. I saw that in the theater as a kid and it left an impression. First movie where I realized that the good guys could lose. Solid list.
Regards,
John
Highlander ( why? b/c teenage boys need a secret bat signal that they might be cool)
Apocalypse Now
Green Berets for a Wayne
any and all Sean Connery Bond films
Man Who Would be King
and, sorry, Star Wars. Real Men become Dads, and their kids love them, even if they’re evil.
If we are going to stretch the list, I’d like to put in a vote for Himalaya (1999).
No other movie shows better than this that manhood is not only about martial arts, shooting without running out of bullets, and explosions. It’s a bit like Dersu Uzala, except for the very different physical environment and the fact that it’s not seen from a Western perspective: it’s total immersion in the native culture, in a very tough environment.
Also:
Warrior (2011)
High Noon (of course)
3:10 to Yuma
And for those of us with, ehm… more experience of life, here are a few movies where pensioners make short work of elite teams of youngsters:
The Rock (more Sean Connery)
RED
Unforgiven.
Wow. High Noon. Who needs a top ten when you can sum up manliness in one film?
So since Klavan is going on vacation, shouldn’t we see if we can expand on this topic? There have been several suggestions to expand this list over ten. Well how about sub-divide the category with each section getting ten? For instance, War, Crime, Espionage, SCi-Fi, Natural Disaster, Westerns, Samurai, Comedy. Obviously there is plenty of overlap. And think of the hours of fun arguing over whose list is better.
Regards,
John
Yes, we men tend to be obsessed with lists.
Incidentally are there any macho movies with a macho man obsessed with lists?
I believe that Conan was not, but the Russell Crowe character in American Gangster was, and for good reasons.
But on to the lists: remember, this is a list of macho movies we like, not of all movies we like.
Samurai:
The Seven Samurai
Yojimbo
13 Assassins
Westerns: I’ll just list those nominated above, I have my favorites but all are excellent:
A Few Dollars More: in the original list
Man Who Shot Liberty Valance: nominated in the post
Rio Bravo
True Grit
Tombstone
High Noon
3:10 to Yuma
Unforgiven
Sword & Sorcery:
Conan the Barbarian, towering above the competition
Fire and Ice
Greco-Roman:
300: in the original list, but I objected to it
300 Spartans: nominated above, but I have no seen it
The Eagle: my favorite; Heart of Darkness in Roman-age Scotland, only better
Comedy:
Payback (1999)
Shoot’em Up
Crank: High Voltage (the original might have been better but I missed it)
I already made a list of movies that you can watch when you are young and think: when I’m old I’ll fight like that; or you can watch them when middle aged and think: there is still time:
The Rock
RED
Unforgiven
Except for Unforgiven they also qualify as Comedy.
Maybe some more lists will come to mind later on.
Snorri:
Those were good lists. Here is a partial list of mine:
War:
Band of Brothers
Patton
Zulu
Blackhawk Down
The Great Escape
The Dirty Dozen
Crime:
The Godfather (1 & 2)
Maltese Falcon
The Big Sleep
The French Connection
Taken
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
Die Hard
Espionage:
Casino Royale
Patriot Games
Dr. No
Goldfinger
From Russia with Love
Hunt For Red October
To Have and Have Not
Fantasy/SciFi/Super Heroes:
Lord of the Rings
Dark Night Trilogy
300
Ironman
Captain America
Conan the Barbarian
Predator
Unbreakable
Westerns:
True Grit
Open Range
Tombstone
Wyatt Earp
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence
The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
The Magnificent Seven
The Outlaw Josey Wales
Regards,
John
A couple of these I’m not sure about. The Hunt for Red October was in one sense one of the most masculine movies of all time – except for the first and last minute, there were no women onscreen. But did it really exemplify the masculine virtues? Ryan was certainly willing to put his neck on the line for what he believed in, but I’m not sure about the movie in general.
As for Iron Man, I just flat-out didn’t like it. The main character was a lout who learned nothing.
And Godfather I – great movie, of course. But it’s about a boy who’s too weak to stand up for his principles, and loses his dreams because of it.
Pinky:
Sure there is ambiguity in many of the movies listed. Red October is both a spy yarn and an adventure film. It’s got good and bad points. Ironman, not everbody’s cup of tea (but I like his two showdown scenes in Afghanistan a lot). The Godfather (as with all things sicilian) is a tragic dysfunctional story of the feudal system. In another place and time it could have been about Sadaam Hussein’s family. I confess that nowadays I skip the Godfather in most instances but I do acknowledge that it was well done.
I saw that you listed the Connery Bond films. I would comment that Diamonds Are Forever is a cut below the earlier ones (at least in my opinion).
Thanks for the comments,
John
John/Hoban:
Yours are good lists too, in as far as I have seen them.
My main disagreement would be with your “crime” list.
I think Goodfellas and Casino were great movies for their realism, but I do not agree with the case that Andrew Klavan makes for Goodfellas: if I have to choose a role model who is an amoral, violent SOB, I’d choose Dr. Doom or Chinggis Khan, rather than the goodfellas or Hannibal Lecter.
If we turn from mobsters to cops, then I’d include at least:
The Untouchables
Die Hard 1 & 3
Hard Boiled
Moving on to adventure (with not much violence):
Man Who Would Be King: my favorite
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
Himalaya
Dersu Uzala
I don’t want to make more lists but I can’t leave out:
The Tragedy of Macbeth (Roman Polanski)
Black Hawk Down
The Dark Knight trilogy
More might come to mind.
Meanwhile here is another idea: what about a list of “macho women”?
I don’t fantasize about being beaten up by women, but I like the underdog element when women (or old men) hold their own against macho men.
A few that come to mind:
Ellen Ripley
Charlie Baltimore, in The Long Kiss Goodnight
Salt
Taarna, in Heavy Metal
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (it’s not too difficult to ignore the feminist/anticapitalist subtext; it’s not for the faint hearted, but then, neither is 13 Assassins.)
Snoori:
I can’t deny that when the protagonist is a criminal or even a morally ambiguous spy it does make it harder to cheer him on. I would rather see Die Hard than Silence of the Lambs. I see that your adventure list has movies that all take place in the mountains. The first two I know are great movies. I’ll have to netflix Himalaya and Dersu Uzala and check them out. AS far as female action heroes, I don’t usually seek them out. If I were going to point out one that I liked, I’d go with River Tam from Serenity. I’ve enjoyed this thread with you and all the other participants.
Regards,
John
John: thank you for your replies.
I don’t remember seeing much in the way of mountains in Dersu Uzala, certainly less than my other 3 picks. Speaking of which, except for the Sierra Madre they all take place in Asia, north of India and west (or north) of China.
Oh, and how could I possibly leave out:
Warrior (2011)
The Magnificent Seven, The Wild Bunch (the last scene takes macho to the stratosphere), Wake Island, We Were Soldiers,
JOHN WAYNE WAS A PUSSY
Herein, a list (in no particular order) of actors who were more manly than John Wayne:
Clint
Bogie
Connery
Cagney (personally, I think Cagney was the most BA film star in history and could have easily kicked Jon
Wayne’s ass on any occasion, despite his stature)
Spencer Tracy
Clark Gable
John Barrymore
Lionel Barrymore
Gary Cooper
Jimmy Stewart (the man who really shot Liberty Valance)
Claude Rains (yeah, you read that right, Pilgrim)
Charlton Heston
Yul Brynner
Lon Chaney (Sr. and Jr.)…
John Wayne was the most overrated actor in Hollywood: A Johnny one-note peddling a feeble idea of masculinity. Was he ever in a movie with a great actress, other than his late films with Katherine Hepburn? (And I’m counting that ginger hack [Maureen O’Sullivan?} who was the obligatory “love interest” in most of his sorry movies.) But could he have held the camera with Ingrid Bergman, like Bogie did, or with Grace Kelly like his friend Jimmy Stewart? Could he have done Hitchcock, like Stewart did? No, because he had zero emotional range and because every one of his films was about him, and he couldn’t ever expand his blowhard personality beyond “I’m not gonna hit ya, I’m not gonna hit ya – the hell I’m not.” A great actress co-star like Ingrid or Grace would have threatened his macho image, because his macho image couldn’t act. Hell, when you make a movie about the Alamo, and cast yourself (lamely) as Davy Crockett, and even a Brit punk like frickin’ Laurence Harvey steals the show from you, it’s objective proof that you can’t act.
I’m not talking about his politics, because politically I agreed with him, unlike other, arguably better, actors such as Henry (“Father of Hanoi Jane”) Fonda, or Planned-Parenthood Hepburn. But as an actor, Marion Morrison was just “John Lame.”
But other than that you really liked him, right? Look, John Wayne was never gonna play Hamlet. And there were plenty of better actors. But even the guys that you listed weren’t Brando or Olivier. American movies from the 30′s and 40′s were a particular thing. It was a quid pro quo between the audience and the movie company. The audience actually did more than half the work of suspending disbelief and somehow caring about the actors up on the screen. Apparently the actors represented the kind of people or showed the kind of behaviors that people in the audience could empathize about. Every guy wanted to be tough and honest and brave. Probably they were much less sophisticated back then. So sometimes the old movies can be hackneyed or even boring. But our movies from the eighties are looking a little cheesey too. I think True Grit is a pretty good movie and I’ll give John Wayne some of the credit for that.
Regards,
John
Arnold is not much of an actor either.
He was great as Conan, or as a Terminator.
Other than that, he was great in True Lies … because he played a character who has trouble expressing his emotions. He is great at playing that sort of character, or a character who has no emotions at all.
I’ll cast a vote for “We were Soldiers” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0277434/
gt
The movie is good, but one part that caught me was The Lament for Sgt. MacKenzie that played frequently throughout the movie. The use of that music was very powerful (although they should have recorded it with bagpipes, as intended, instead of the low droning strings as featured in the movie).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edO2XfO-WCc
Speaking of effective use of music, I’ll have to include BlackHawk Down. The movie was excellent, but at the end, they played a version of Minstrel Boy that had me crying like a baby. I guess I just love a good lament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HUW7xvVXuM
The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
In the ranks of death you’ll find him;
His father’s sword he hath girded on,
And his wild harp slung behind him;
“Land of Song!” cried the warrior bard,
(Should) “Tho’ all the world betrays thee,
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
One faithful harp shall praise thee!”
The Minstrel fell! But the foeman’s steel
Could not bring that proud soul under;
The harp he lov’d ne’er spoke again,
For he tore its chords asunder;
And said “No chains shall sully thee,
Thou soul of love and brav’ry!
Thy songs were made for the pure and free
They shall never sound in slavery!
Black Hawk Down is as good, and as macho, as any war movie I remember seeing.
However I was much more impressed by The Minstrel Boy in another movie:
The Man Who Would Be King.
I wasn’t able to find that version on Youtube, so I guess I need to watch The Man Who Would Be King again, but with respect to Blackhawk Down, at the time I was already more than a bit overwhelmed as it was, particularly at the end, with this bit of dialogue”
When I go home people’ll ask me, “Hey Hoot, why do you do it man? What, you some kinda war junkie?” You know what I’ll say? I won’t say a goddamn word. Why? They won’t understand. They won’t understand why we do it. They won’t understand that it’s about the men next to you, and that’s it. That’s all it is.
Yeah, that about sums it up. So after that, the credits roll, they hit me with Minstrel Boy, and I’m done for…
Minstrel Boy was one of the first tunes I learned when I started playing bagpipes, so I’m partial to it anyway. Here’s a good version on the pipes, along with a medley of other tunes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL1jcF35s9c
The Minstrel Boy is all over the place in MwwbK. This is one of the scenes in which I like it most:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apfaDqcf2FA