Anti-Bush Truther shoots up Pentagon; Should we play the political blame game?
On Thursday, a “9/11 Truth” fanatic named John Patrick Bedell started shooting at the Pentagon and managed to wound two guards before they mercifully put him out of our misery.
We now know that the guy thought the government and the Bush family were behind the 9/11 attacks (or “demolitions” as he called them), and was basically frothing at the mouth with Bush hatred.
Now, I’ve been to innumerable “Truther” rallies over the last 8 years, and can say with some confidence that about 98% of folks who think 9/11 was a hoax are left-wingers, or at the very least fit in very comfortably in the left-wing milieu, since the impetus behind Truthism is to undermine the basis for Bush’s “War on Terror,” an impetus which is also a cornerstone of modern Leftist thought as well.
So far, however, I’ve noticed a deafening quietude on the left-leaning blogs about this guy’s affiliations and belief systems. Those brave enough to troll leftist comments sections have noted mumblings therein that the guy was probably a secret “teabagger,” despite all evidence to the contrary.
Compare this to the response in the leftosphere when Joseph Stack flew his plane into an Austin IRS building a couple weeks earlier. Despite leaving a suicide note that approvingly cited Karl Marx and that condemned capitalism as nothing but “greed,” he was pilloried by every left-leaning site as a right-wing hitman who epitomized the inherent violence of the Tea Party movement — because he had anti-government feelings.
Now, just for a moment, let’s set aside the false guilt-by-association game everyone’s always playing. We all know that John Patrick Bedell and Joseph Stack are basically insane, plain and simple — as are any number of similar whackjobs who periodically go loco and erupt into violence. Violent psychopaths often incorporate some seemingly random overarching theme into their mindset, and on occasion that theme involves politics. Whenever someone like Bedell or Stack goes ballistic, every pundit jumps into the fray and tries to spin the outburst as “exemplifying” the political viewpoint of those with whom the pundit disagrees.
Lemme guess, it’s “Bush’s fault” here too for left/liberals.
“But that doesn’t mean that all left-leaning Americans are thereby just as crazy as the most extreme among them…”
I agree. It’s a question of degree. All lefties are insane, but some are more insane than others.
This is another canary in the mine moment. Wait, there will be more. People can take only so much and then they start breaking. Wait until the working man comes home with less money to feed his kids because Obama’s “health taxes” took another ten percent. Wait until that man gets fired because the business has to cut further. Wait.
When people are on the edge and the society around them is also on the edge, the restraints are weakened. Obama and his people are playing with fire when they constantly berated then punish with more regulations and taxes the very people they are supposed to represent.
Can you imagine the thin line between a man thinking nobody is listening anymore and something must be done but is reminded by his friends that there are still options available, and a man who says the same thing and his friends agree, saying there is no hope for a way out. When I was working on the street that is what I saw the most, a moment when the fatal decision was made because there was no hope in the person’s mind.
Just saying….
“Should we play the political blame game?”
I SAY HELL YES.
FROM: http://michellemalkin.com/2010/03/04/campus-chaos-social-justice-mobsters-attack-police-smash-windows-over-tuition-hikes/
“When last we heard from entitlement-mongering college students protesting budget cuts at public universities, they were taking torches to the chancellor’s home at UC Berkeley.”
“Remember?”
“As I’ve noted before, it’s not right-wing Republicans assaulting police officers, abusing government authority to try and drive out the Marines, waging nationwide war on recruiters, and terrorizing researchers in the name of animal rights. It’s left-wing nutballs who always get a pass from the NYTimes columnists and MSNBC loudmouths who’ve been blaming every violent outburst on the planet on the Tea Party movement.”
This is all starting to get a little too close to the “we dare not criticize those nice, peaceful Muslims…or they might kill us” P-C nonsense.
While much of what you write may be true, Zombie, overall it comes across to me like rationalization.
We don’t need to – and shouldn’t – wait until they are breaking down our own doors. I agree with staying factual (e.g. no “reinventing” Stack as a Tea Partier), but I think it is right and necessary to call out these dead b*stards for what they wereproducts of the Leftist Hate Machine…and what influence it has on the living.
Is liberalism just a mental disorder?
We conservatives have to stop bringing knives to gun fights. . . unless we are willing to use the left’s tatics against them, we will continue to be outshouted. . .the majority of sheeple here in the US only pay attention to s### like American Idle and the “reality” show drivel that floods the airwaves. We have to get their attention. If that means getting in the gutter, so be it!
and of course WE Truthers (as opposed to the MSM liars) know that it was the lost tribe who orchestrated 911 and these dual citizens are still running amuck in the District of Criminals. I considered Bedell to be a Patriot!
Theodore Kaczynski (the Unabomber) remains a darling of the left just as this clown eventually will too.
Remember, these incidents give leftist wackos that which they desperately seek – *validation*. They know conservatives are all insane and evil, and they explode in orgasmic glee when some nutball they can tie (no matter how tortured the logic) to conservatism goes off the deep end. It validates them, and invalidates you. Now, they don’t have to listen you, because well you’re CRAZY man!
“he is deemed a left-wing psycho (see: Charles Manson);”
bernadine doryn was unavailable for comment?
I’m tired of this Marquis of Queensberry, “we’re not playing their dirty game” nonsense.
The guy was an insane leftist Truther. You know who else is an leftist Truther? Over 1/3 of all Democrats.
Once by accident, twice by coincidence but after the third time it’s a property of the system.
Progressivism, like all Fascist movements, attracts the mentally unstable and sociopaths who use politics as an excuse or cover to conduct violent attacks on society. This latest incident should give people pause to consider how dangerous Progressivism is to society.
“I’m not going to say that Bedell’s actions at the Pentagon epitomize the leftist worldview.”
You won’t, but I will. If they shoot at American troops, or fly airplanes into American buildings, they’re either Leftists or Muslims. Been that way for over a century. Amy Bishop, Joseph Stack, and Bedell are just the most recent examples to happen with in the last SIX WEEKS that I’m aware of. Being anti-government doesn’t make you Left Wing, it makes you observant. Being Anti-Free-Market makes you Left Wing, and all of these people likely had that in common. I’m not going to labor through all of the personal information of the various mass murderers of the last century to see if the majority were Leftists, with the exception being the individuals who had serious medical disorders (like Charles Whitman)I just assume it to be a universal truth based on the evidence that I have seen over my lifetime.
When Right Wingers turn to murder to achieve a political goal, the usually kill one targeted individual. When Lefties turn to murder to achieve a political goal, the often target large groups of unknown and largely innocent victims. The difference between murdering those who are perceived as guilty, and killing people who are loosely associated with that guilt is one is intended as punishment, and the other is intended to terrorize the larger society into submission of a political viewpoint. That alone is the basis for a serious divide in ideologies.
People who get into conspiracy theories to explain the world and who resort to violence tend to be deeply frustrated, equality of results oriented collectivists if left wing (Jim Jones) and wronged loners with a chip on their shoulder (McVeigh), if on the right. One blames government for not doing enough and the other for doing too much.
I always thought it was foolish of the left to play this game, given the Obama Ayers connection.
The mature answer is this. We debate important issues in this republic. Sometimes that debate becomes rancorous, and even hateful. Often we believe (and often correctly so) that these issues are a matter of life and death. Is it any shock that then some people take it too far?
I mean especially in the case of trutherism, if anything i am shocked there has been so little violence. If i believed my government intentionally murdered 3,000 innocent citizens, i wouldn’t piss and moan about it. i would organize anyone i could, get my guns, and declare rebellion. And for justification i would cite the declaration of independance.
Does that mean that trutherism is wrong because it leads to violence? no, it is wrong because it requires willful ignorance. I mean it takes a special breed of stupidity to think fire can’t melt steel, given that fire melts steel every day in the steel mills.
I’ve worked at the Pentagon. I know exactly where this happened and exactly what kind of cover, armor, and weapons the guards are carrying.
All John Patrick Bedell did was commit “suicide by soldier” in a way guaranteed to get him media coverage.
It has been my experience the more left a person is, the more likely the bizarre behavior, especially when in large groups. Other then that observation,experience, I agree with Thomas L and his assessmet of both sides of the spectrum.
The shooter in this tragedy was a big fan of Ludwig von Mises and he published a lecture/rant on freedom to the internet archives. He thought that property rights were the foundation of justice, and equated taxation with theft. I think it is clear that an accurate description of his political beliefs should include words like ‘libertarian’ and ‘conservative’. The fact that he thought Bush was corrupt is a common belief among libertarians, who typically don’t have much love for either party.
http://www.archive.org/details/JPatrickBedellDirectionstoFreedom20061125
All Americans should be in favor of civil discourse, yet there are many people who profit from ratcheting up the hysteria and winding up the crazies. It doesn’t matter if these people are on the left or right (or if they defy categorization) – they are making money at the expense of the nation. There is an increasing polarization that demonizes the opposition instead of simply acknowledging that others have a different opinion or perspective.
A certain other blogger, in a thread entitled “Pentagon Shooter: Another Violent Anti-Government Loon?”, says that “his profile fits the tea partiers like a glove.”
One side is always happy to play the blame game…
Sorry, Zombie, but the shooter’s blog blames the “coup regime of 1963″ — i.e., every president since the JFK assassination — for our woes, not Bush, who in fact is never mentioned.
@4. Jay Getty: – Is liberalism just a mental disorder?
No, self-described “liberals” exhibit a well-researched and clinically documented distortion of morality.
Happily, that research provides exactly what we need to know in order to deal with the socialist agenda: stop compromising with it!
So, instead of playing the blame game so unapologetically employed by the Left when they feel they can spin things to their political advantage, I’m not going to say that Bedell’s actions at the Pentagon epitomize the leftist worldview.
Why not?
What is it about the tactics of Saul Alinsky that you don’t understand?
Do you people want to win? Or just pontificate and smell your own armpits and pronounce it “not fetid”?
Kick some lefty ass, dude. All day long.
10. Joseph:
Is that you Uncle Joe? I know it’s sooper hard but, follow the links above the link above:
“Furthermore, Patterico found his Amazon wish list. Amongst the books Bedell desired?
The Immaculate Deception: The Bush Crime Family
and
Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America
foot meet mouth.
“We all know that John Patrick Bedell and Joseph Stack are basically insane, plain and simple…”
Yep, just a couple of anti-government nuts, like most extreme right-wingers.
“Joseph” — you’re proving Zombie’s point.
Now go play in traffic.
CJ, Don’t try to confuse Joseph with the facts; he’s not going to let them get in the way of his narrative.
P.S. my apologies to Joseph if he was trying to be sarcastic and forgot to close either note with a sarc tag… Hey Joseph if you want to know the right way to do this kind of work visit the Iowahawk website you might learn something.
“12. CJ: “10. Joseph: Is that you Uncle Joe?
Yes, CJ, it’s me, Joseph Stalin. Add that to your no doubt long list of delusions.
14. Rob Crawford: “Joseph” — you’re proving Zombie’s point. Now go play in traffic.”
Zombie has no point. His blog is a long, anti-left diatribe that tries to preempt criticism if the anti-government hysteria whipped up by Tea Partyers and their ilk. Now go play with yourself.
don’t worry ron rosenbaum will hop right on this and claim that this guy was the standard tea party member and that we should expect more from these gun nut wielding rightwing zealots….
The liberal PPP conducted a poll in Sept 2009 that showed that 37% of Democrats agree with or are unsure when asked this question:
New question: “Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?”
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/ppp_national_birthertruther_po.php
So it is more reasonable to equate truther Bedell with Democrats than Marxist Stack with Republicans or Tea Party. Give them their own medicine.
Zombie-
always enjoy reading your stuff.
I blame Bush for Obama losing the next presidential election.
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We need pictures of the Hippie grandchildren at Berkley fighting for their basement lifestyles,
protesting their hair headed Hippie grandparents teacher salaries.
Someone needs to steal a plane.
(that darn old prop. 13)
One thing you forgot to mention, he was a avid follower of Ron Paul’s hero Ludwig Von Mises which makes him more Right than Left.
He sounds like a typical Libertarian who lost his way.
After more is revealed I think we shall see he was a Ron Paul supporter.
Check out this guy’s rantings:
http://www.archive.org/details/JPatrickBedellDirectionstoFreedom20061125
He’s not a liberal or a leftist or a conservative or a right winger. He’s a anti-government conspiracy loon. Sounds like a Paulite and/or a LaRouchie.
Note that in his rant, he rails against government control of the economy, high taxes and high spending which are used to support what he calls “the coup regime”, a regime that wants to control people and take ownership of private property and redistribute it. I’m not going to put all tea partiers into the same category – it seems to be a rather diverse movement, to say the least – but his diatribe sounds like something you would likely hear at a tea party rally.
Zombie channels Fox and lays down a few reasonability markers to clear the way for his scorched earth ideology . . . “We all want the world to be full of flags and butterflies. There are many well-meaning liberals who, like the vast majority of real Americans, support warm pie and coffee, but they’re evil and hell bent on killing our babies and old people.”
Your style of disingenuousness is particularly vulgar. Perhaps you should focus on the more righteous acts of insanity – say the madcap antics of Scott Roeder. Here, I’ll get you started . . . “We all believe in the right to be safe and secure in our homes and lives. There are many well-meaning right-to-lifers who, like the vast majority of real Americans, support warm pie and coffee, but they’re evil and hell bent on murdering in cold blood people who disagree with their morality.”
There’s no difference between Roeder and the Pentagon shooter . . . and I’m sure we’ll see left-wing zealots holding an online fundraiser for Bedell’s defense. Don’t you?
Joseph, you pinned this faker to the wall early . . . well done.
I would be very curious as to Joseph’s, indeed every left winger’s, opinions of all the anti-government rallies that took place during the Bush years (ie: Code Pink, MoveOn, etc…). I have a feeling that their response would justify the left wing demonstrations and continue to vilify the right.
Completely assinine in my opinion
Nothing to add to what Zombie says,
but for sure the trolls here show dangerous signs of mental pathologies…
Trollies, make sure you take your pills today, OK ?
Actually, I think there is the emergence of a pattern here. These three recent cases – Amy Bishop, Joseph Stack, and now Bedell – all had reasons to be hopeful or optimistic upon Obama’s election. Bishop was known to be an ardent Obama supporter. In his manifesto, Stack railed against Bush (among many others), but makes no mention of Obama. Bedell was a Truther. All were probably happy a year ago when that evil George W Bush was finally out of office and Obama was going to make everything better.
But here we are a year later, and whatever issues these people had was still around. Their life still sucks, everything is still unfair, and now they don’t even have Bush and Cheney to blame for it. Oh, they try, but that only holds up for so long. If Obama’s election didn’t make their lives better, than surely nothing will. Now hopeless, they act out. Call it Obama Disillusionment Syndrome (ODS), although it is essentially the terminal phase of Bush Derangement Syndrome. (Hey, see, it’s still Bush’s fault!)
I know you to be correct, but it so fun throwing dung at the rabid dogs like Uncle Joe, teeth bared and seething, yet yearning for the good old days of fireworks in football stadiums, and Greek columns with the profundity of Caesar Obama leading the chants of “Yes, We Can!!”
Who amongst us (‘cept Uncle Joe) wouldn’t pay to buy three more balls to hit the bullseye, as Skeeziks sits in his flaming pinko clown suit screaming twenty year old witticisms of lefty humor, while residing over the dunk tank?
“FAUX News”, “Rush LimpBaugh”, “Jerry Falwell”, “No Blood for Oil”, “Warmongers”, “Shrub” splash….
It’s not the first time the government has used a scapegoat to discredit a “movement”.
A lot of propaganda. Oh why? Obviously they don’t want you to ask questions. And if you do there’s gonna be a big smear campaign and propaganda trying to discredit a whole movement.
Very democratic and freedom of speech style I must say. Not surprisingly the media and TV news in the US nowadays are not doing real reporting, they’re institutions to shape-shift the public’s opinion.
When you think all is lost,finally had enough and can’t take it any more grab your gun …go out on the front porch,look up and down the street.
If you are the only one with a gun in your hand ….go back in the house.
Zombie,
No need for “political gotcha”, but if there are numerous dots that consistently support the (leftist) ideology excusing a single person or event as delusional will not suffice either. Yes, object to the ideology by itself that is a good distinction, but certain singular events have a way of becoming huge and perpetual paradigmatic examples (need one mention Timothy McVeigh?) that echo though history.
It is worth keeping this event clearly understood and rebut any mis-characterization like this Christian Science Monitor article that has just topped Googlenews’s page-ranking for example:
John Patrick Bedell: Did right-wing extremism lead to shooting?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0305/John-Patrick-Bedell-Did-right-wing-extremism-lead-to-shooting
Many truthers are on the Right. The Ron Paul groupies are full of truthers.
Total Ron Paul
http://patterico.com/the-pentagon-shooters-manifesto-a-transcript/
Total Ron Paul
http://patterico.com/the-pentagon-shooters-manifesto-a-transcript/
#18 – “dangerous signs of MORAL pathologies…”
FIFY
Bravo, Tex Taylor!
Yes, the lefty trolls are entertaining. As you point out, their tired cliches and insults ( “FAUX News”, etc.) are worn out as their failed ideology. Watching them scream and flail as they slam head on into a little thing called “reality” is amusing.
I can’t wait to hear them howl come next November. Pass the popcorn!
“…about 98% of folks who think 9/11 was a hoax are left-wingers”
From my experience, I’d say the “truther” numbers break down more like this: 70-75% left-wingers, 10% devout Muslims and 15-20% Ron Paul / Alex Jones type Libertarians, with anti-Semitism being the common thread between the last two groups.
The percentage of regular conservatives, or Republicans, who are “truthers” close to zero.
So much for “the deafening quietude on the left-leaning blogs about this guy’s affiliations and belief systems”:
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/pentagon_shooter_praised_private_property_rights_d.php?ref=fpa
“Should we play the political blame game?”
OH, YEAH.
I’m all for staying factual (i.e. NO “inventing” Tea Party connections to Mr. Stack),
but this ain’t no Shuffleboard Competition here.
And, there IS a pattern.
We’d be right to call it out for what it is:
a direct by-product of the Leftist Hate Machine.
My concern on the Right is strikingly similar to hearing wimpy Leftists (whether here or Denmark) say things like,
“Oh, we’d better not criticize those well-meaning, peaceful Muslims…or they might kill us.”
Well, with Obama’s approval rating in the mid 40s% and likely to drop further, poor Joe and the rest of the Left wing lunatics need something to grab unto.
Their messiah, obama, is a complete and utter failure. His once drugged addicted like supporters have abandoned him and are attending Obama Anonymous meetings by the millions.
Joseph and his ilk need to believe that it is the Right that is crazy and not them. I mean with such colorful individuals like William Ayers, Bernedine Dorhn, and the countless of Left wing terrorist that make up the Left, well you can’t blame these kids for their desperation.
About five years ago, my family and I were in the National Mall. Out of no where a pretty large march came upon us. It was an anti-war, anti-American, anti-Western, anti-Bush, etc march. It was a Left wing march. The hate, the disgusting signs, the pro-communist, pro-anarchy signs were every where. Effigies of Bush were being burnt, the American flag was being stepped on. The display of hate for anything American was obvious. It was a Left wing hate fest. My children and wife were harassed for no other reason than us being there. Never spoke my political views with anyone, but this hateful individuals were just well….hateful.
While there is a very FAR extreme Right, the Left is full of utter hate. I have seen it displayed in blogs, facebook debates, etc, etc.
the hate from the Right is not main stream as the main stream media would have us believe. However, the hate from the Left IS main stream in their ideology and political parties.
Of course, I don’t expect the hatefult Left wingers to admit. Instead, they will prove me correct with their attacks.
Good post Zombie, and it’s plain to see the MSM’s knowledge of the shooter’s affiliation by their down-playing of the incident. Also, good form in not taking the easy shot on the Leftards when offered. Still, it’s a “teachable moment”, and we should use it so. People who hold radical views are more likely to act on those views in a violent fashion. It doesn’t matter if the battle cry is “Down with Bushitler!” or “Allahu akbar!” or “Viva la revolucion!”, there’s a percentage of radicals ready to hurt and destroy to enforce their views on the general populace. Sort of like those “peaceful protesters” in you neck of the woods yesterday, right?
Liberals need to start attending Obamaholic Anonymous Meetings. It will make them feel so much better. Just like millions of Liberals made countless of psychiatrist rich when Kerry lost the election.
Ron Paul! oh, wrong blog. ha
Congrats on the Instapundit link zombie.
Americans only should only stick to debates that they have real expertise in. such as:
What is the best 5 dollar foot long?
Coke or Pepsi?
Should orange juice have pulp in it like oranges or not?
Should peanut butter be chunky like peanuts or not?
Which shampoo makes me least self conscious about my hair?
What is the best brand to devote your image to?
What was the best Superbowl commercial?
Which brand of deodorant makes me feel least self conscious about smelling human?
Any topic out of this range is really an abstraction from your actual life. I wish we had the America of our grandparents.
@42. GV: – Actually, I think there is the emergence of a pattern here.
Good one.
And when I look at this list, I think you may be onto something here.
If that and the increasingly desperate hysteria spewed by the likes of “skeeziks” and his sockpuppets are any indication, it will get much worse before it gets better.
Sorry Zombie,
Apparently, neither the trolls, nor the anti-trolls got your point. Although I guess, in some way, the vitriol of the comments above actually depict the vanity of opportunistic partisan mud-slinging that you eschew. Sometimes it is frustrating to be right.
To fellow conservatives: I think the crux of the argument is that you cannot both claim the idealogical high ground AND follow an ends-justifies-the-means strategy to push that ideology. Think about it.
Zombie is asking us all to grow up and act like responsible adults, here kids. All I have seen so far in response is “I don’t wanna”.
The lunatic shooter was a register democRAT. Surprise, surprise.
But relax Joseph, since the lunatic leftist shooter could have been a former George Wallace supporter.
32. Joseph:
“Zombie has no point. His blog is a long, anti-left diatribe that tries to preempt criticism if the anti-government hysteria whipped up by Tea Partyers and their ilk. Now go play with yourself.”
Why was the guy a registered DEMOCRAT???
No need to go play with myself, I’m teabagging your wife right now.
Zombie wrote:
——————————————
“Are most Truthers leftists? Yes. But that doesn’t mean that all left-leaning Americans are thereby just as crazy as the most extreme among them; it simply indicates that when a leftist goes crazy in the post-9/11 era, he often gloms onto Truthism as his paranoia of choice.
Put it this way: Leftism fails as a coherent philosophy on its own terms. We shouldn’t try to wring significance from the delusional outburst of someone who just happened to be leftist. There are plenty of ways to logically disembowel Marxism and its numerous noxious contemporary offspring without having to resort to an unnecessary round of political “gotcha!”
——————————————
Those two paragraphs are the smartest and most sensible I have read on the topic of modern conspiracy theorists. Just excellent!
“The lunatic shooter was a register democRAT. Surprise, surprise.”
Who gave $400 to a Republican congressman:
http://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/index.php?q=John+Bedell&searchButt.x=118&searchButt.y=9&searchButt=Submit&cx=010677907462955562473%3Anlldkv0jvam&cof=FORID%3A11#976
Everyone (especially the trolls who were too afraid to click any of the evidentiary links in my original post), please see the UPDATE I have just posted above — and which I’ll paste in here, so you can’t ignore it:
UPDATE:
To my utter amazement, some left-leaning blogs and top MSM outlets this morning somehow managed to brand Bedell as a “right-wing extremist” anyway, despite the ever-growing pile of evidence contradicting this tired old narrative. The Christian Science Monitor titled its article “John Patrick Bedell: Did right-wing extremism lead to shooting?“, while top leftist blog Talking Points Memo ran with “Pentagon Shooter Worshipped Private Property Rights, Denounced Government ‘Schemes’ Like Public Education“.
Meanwhile…
Michelle Malkin uncovered a key inconvenient fact which doesn’t quite fit this predictable “right-wing extremist” narrative — that Bedell was a registered Democrat.
Ooops!
Bedell was also a marijuana smoker, grower and activist, as documented at Gateway Pundit.
Ooops!
Patterico has now posted a full transcript of one of Bedell’s internet rants — the same one cited by Talking Points Memo as evidence of his right-wing leanings — which has Bedell uncorking phrases like “economic justice” and paragraphs like (writing in 2006 during the Bush presidency) “This organization, like so many murderous governments throughout history, would see the sacrifice of thousands of its citizens in an event such as the September 11th attacks, as a small cost in order to perpetuate its barbaric control. This collection of gangsters would find it in their interests to foment conflict and initiate wars throughout the world in order to divert attention from their misconduct and criminality. The true nature of such a regime would find its clearest expression in Satanic violence currently ongoing in Iraq.” and anti-war conspiracy theories like “The political and military disasters such as the wars in Vietnam and Iraq that an illegitimate coup regime uses against the people…”.
Ooops!
Add all that to the previous discovery already linked above that Bedell’s Amazon “Wish List” featured the the left-wing conspiracy-theory books The Immaculate Deception: The Bush Crime Family and Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America.
Ooops!
And more evidence is being uncovered by diligent bloggers with every passing hour.
I post all this not to backtrack on my original wish to avoid the blame game, but to defuse the blame-the-right game now coming from the other side.
Tell me, Christian Science Monitor and Talking Points Memo (and the innumerable left-leaning sites which by now have surely followed in their wake): How many Tea Partiers or conservatives
- Shoot at the Pentagon and hate the military?
- Are registered Democrats?
- Hate George Bush and the whole Bush family?
- Think 9/11 was perpetrated not by Muslims but by Republicans?
- Grow and smoke marijuana?
- Read left-wing anti-Bush books?
- Are anti-war?
- Talk about “economic justice”?
- Think the Vietnam War and the Iraq War were not merely mistakes but were part of a government conspiracy?
Exactly as I had surmised, Bedell seems to be a nutcase who overwhelmingly tends to lean left but with a sprinkling of libertarian attitudes thrown in just to spice things up — and it is those exact libertarian sprinklings which the leftist mediasphere is focusing on, while completely ignoring the much larger pile of evidence on the other side of the scale.
Bedell may have been a left-wing conspiracy kook, but much more importantly: He was insane, and it was his insanity (not his politics) which led him to start shooting at the Pentagon.
Unfortunately, I can see now that the blame game is already in full swing and I am powerless to stop it, but at least I can say I tried.
@ RogueIV (#64),
“grow up and act like responsible adults”?!
We’re not talking about either manners or maturity here.
It seems to me more like you’re proposing “practicing for dhimmitude.”
I believe it is possible – and necessary – to stick to facts and call out each Leftist bum after bum as a part of their whole, rancid Hate Machine.
Well, then, Zombie #69,
…how’s that “he’s just another insane loner and please don’t call him Right Winger” thing working out for you?!
IT’S TIME TO GET AGRESSIVE. FACTUAL, BUT RELENTLESSLY AGRESSIVE AGAINST THESE LEFTISTS.
63. goy:
goy, goy, goy . . . you simply must try reading for comprehension. I make no assertions as to Bedell’s ideology. I leave that for, oh, everybody else here. My point is the arbitrary principles and analysis of the right. For example, if Bedell had been a registered Republican, then we would have been hearing, “Obviously he was a liberal plant convinced to embark in his insane mission by socialists intent on making Republicans look bad.”
You people treat party registration like you treat public opinion polls. It means everything when you want it to and nothing when you don’t. (Thanks you, Meghan Kelly, for so dramatically illustrating that point re: “narrative.”) Case in point. Upwards of 70% of Americans want some form of public option. (Reminder: the public option is not the same as the nuclear option. i know they sound alike, but really, they’re different.)
I would never make hay out of Jim David Adkisson for shooting up the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church killing two people and wounding six others during the presentation of a children’s musical. Just because he went nuts with a 12-gauge shotgu. Why? According to Knoxville Police Department Officer Steve Still, “because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country’s hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.”
Inside the shooter’s house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly. And, of course, a sweet little goodbye note: “Liberals are a pest like termites. Millions of them. Each little bite contributes to the downfall of this great nation. The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather. I’d like to encourage other like minded people to do what I’ve done. If life ain’t worth living anymore don’t just kill yourself. do something for your Country before you go. Go Kill Liberals.”
Remember the outrage of conservatives and the right wing media establishment? Neither do I. Now tell me, Bedell was a deranged anti-government gun nut – does that sound like Hollywood or Dollywood?
You have no standing.
Zombie,
Please stop it with the facts! How dare you expect the Liberals, Progressives, Democrats, Radical Left wingers in the USA to base their opinions of others on facts. That would be like asking them to be fair, open minded, and educated. You know how hard that is for them to do?
We all know that it is already hard for the Left Wing trolls to chew and walk at the same time, how can we expect that they think on their own and not spew Left wing propaganda?
by the way, Zombie, AWESOME JOB!!! but you know that these Left wingers will not allow the facts to get on the way of their religious Left wing dogma.
I am sure you have gone to Thinkprogress.org, Huffington Post, etc. I was shocked that these Left wing radicals were pushing the “fact” that the terrorist that flew the airplane into an IRS office was a Right winger despite the fact that he left a pro-Marx, anti-corporation, anti-Bush letter. The saddest part is that these websites on the Left know their Left wing readers are so poorly informed that many of them, not all, did not omit the fact that the Left wing radical left a whole pro-Left wing manifesto. The Left wing readers did not know that being pro-Marxist, pro-communist, anti-Bush, etc was being a Left winger.
It is very sad the state of affairs on the Left.
but as I said, many of them are starting to attend Obamaholic Anonymous, so we must be compassionate and understand that millions of Obama voters on the Left are going through withdrawl problems.
Sorry Skeeziks,
the Left went crazy and blamed the shooting by Jim David Adkinson on the Right, Right wing pundits, etc. and before you say this hasn’t been done by the Left, do your research.
You might not do it, which you actually did in your rant, but the leaders and voices of your Left wing ideology do it. They love to equate abortion bombers to all of the Right wingers.
and c’mon just a few weeks ago the so called Main Stream Media along with the likes of the HuffPost, thinkprogress.org, DailyKos, and countless of other Left wing sites claimed that the terrorist that flew the airplane into the IRS office was a Right wing radical and part of the Tea Party movement.
You have zero moral standing. you have zero moral authority to cry about this.
Zombie….
I told you that Liberals never allow the facts to get on the way of their radical, left wing religious dogma.
You’re all missing the point. These whackos always have some combination of Leftist and Libertarian thinking. It’s never coherent, because they’re just plain nuts. The Leftists seize upon any hint of Right thinking to paint him as a rightwinger nutjob. They purposely fail to point out the leftwing rants.
Zombie’s right. We don’t win by emulating the Left’s tactics. We win by taking away their weapons. If we point out the commonality of these guys, that their politics are an inconsistent mish-mash, we sound reasonable, and the Leftists are revealed.
The Indies in the middle respond to reasonableness. They don’t respond to rightwing/leftwing.
#16 Matt Groom – Good point. When it really is a rightwinger, you absolutely do know it, because he declares himself so. Targeted assassination, as opposed to random violence. Doesn’t try to hide his motivations. The killing of George Tiller is a good example. Rightwingers don’t mess around.
Czar(70),
On the contrary, I am not an appeaser. I am not saying we should not fight back, simply that when we do, it should be more than a series of face slaps and whiny name-calling. I agree with you wholeheartedly about sticking to facts. Lets do that. We do not need to make mountains out of mole-hills, or construct straw men. It seems to me that Zombie is warning against crying wolf, and I agree. Let’s take action where it counts, and stop chasing shadows.
Note the new update above:
UPDATE II:
Exactly as I had stated in my original post, we now know that Bedell was clinically insane:
A completely crazy person goes berserk. That’s it. Can we for once not make this into a political boxing match?
@72. “skeeziks”: – goy, goy, goy …
Just rolls off the tongue for you, eh fake vet? Heh.
- . . . you simply must try reading for comprehension. I make no assertions as to Bedell’s ideology.
You simply must find an alternative to projection and straw man fallacy. I made no assertions about your assertions.
As for your desperation, it’s self-evident, and the reasons are obvious. At the rate your agenda is failing, you need to find something, anything to deflect (like Adkisson, for instance, whose acts you hypocritically just used to make political “hay”, nimrod). To review:
The Great Obama List O’ Fail and Impotence:
(1) Card Check? [FAIL]
(2) Foreign Relations (UK – Prime Minister Edition)? [FAIL]
(3) Foreign Relations (UK – Queen Edition)? [FAIL]
(4) Close Guantanamo Bay in First Year? [FAIL]
(5) Transparency? [FAIL]
(6) Lobbyist Ban in Administration? [FAIL]
(7) Foreign Relations (Israel)? [FAIL]
(8) Cap & Tax? [FAIL]
(9) Negotiate ObamaCare in Public on C-SPAN? [FAIL]
(10) Economic recovery? [FAIL]
(11) Bowling? [FAIL]
(12) Outreach to the Islamic World? [FAIL]
(13) Van Jones? [FAIL]
(14) Civilian trials for terrorists? [FAIL]
(15) ObamaCare? [IMPOTENT]
(16) DADT Repeal? [IMPOTENT]
(17) Amnesty? [IMPOTENT]
Hell, if I were to be you, I’d be beating my teeth on the keyboard just like you are.
A good guideline is not believing everything that comes out of the mouth of someone who is saying that you deserve to die.
And that goes double if he is holding a gun.
no political significance, just crazy.
80. goy,
Some more:
The ’2016 Chicago Olympic Bid’?
FAIL.
Barry quitting smoking?
FAIL.
You can tell he is not a right winger, he used a 9mm.
BTW, whoever made the head shot, great job. It saved the tax payers millions.
BZO, or Die!
#84 Leatherneck – “You can tell he is not a right-winger: He used a 9mm.” Hilarious! 9mm’s are for Left-wing sissies!
And yes, kudos for the kill shot!
Just because most truthers are leftists, doesn’t mean that Bedell is a leftist because he is a truther. He hated the very idea of government, not just American government. He wasn’t killing people to protest the lack of government entitlements like Stack and Johnny Wicks back in January, he tried to murder to oppose government intervention. His actions were wrong, and most political violence is indeed from the left, but that doesn’t mean that Bedell is automatically not right wing.
Yes, we should. I used to be an ignoranant and brainwashed anti-Western Marxist leftist. Through their iorn fisted control of our popular control they’ve been turning our impressionable kids into anti-human, anti-military, anti-police, anti-American, anti-Western, anti-capitalist, Marxist environ-mentalist extremists for decades. They’ve created numerous domestic terrorists such as Obama’s best friend Billy Ayers who also attacked the Pentagon with bombings. I don’t think you fully appreciate just what a mindjob these radical leftists are indocrinating people all around the world with. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if left wingers suffered higher levels of mental illnesses as a result. Just go to a left wing protest and see the whackjobs for yourselves. I went to an anti Iraq War rally a few years ago when I was still a lefty and around me were all kinds of nutters. People were dressed up as giant human penises for no particular reason (no, I’m not kidding), they were holding signs and shouting slogans that supported islamist terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and the “Iraqi resistance”, they chanted “F**K FAUX NEWS” at a Fox News news van and Fox News building for several hours (they were practically foaming at the mouth), I saw lots of support for communism, etc. They’re simply nuts.
You know you’re close to living the totalitarian dream – where everything is politicized – when even the actions of a madman require a political component.
Thanks, zombie, and all the others, for the research.
Well, I clearly should have refreshed the page after I got home from work and before commenting. Ignore my previous post. Wrong as wrong can be. lol
It’s Michael Moore’s fault!
#85 Marc Malone, I am glad you enjoyed my post.
Have a good afternoon.
Once you get that far out on the apogee of the political ellipse, you find that far-Right and far-Left have lost their meaning: the two sides have curved around to meet each other. (Though it IS amusing to see our ol’ pal Charles at LGF trying to prove with mathematical precision that Bedell was a TEA Partier in spirit, if not in fact. Nice that he could take time out from his hunt for the missing strawberries.)
Be careful, folks.
When you demonize and dehumanize your opponents, the end result will only be chaos and violence. That’s not doom and gloom or conspiracy theory. That’s just historical fact. …and contrary to popular belief, America is not immune from history.
nutball
whackjobs
Violent psychopaths
psycho
fails as a coherent philosophy on its own terms
numerous noxious contemporary offspring
mobsters
lying, violent tendencies
Beyond parody
nuts from the start
perilously close to petty
This is also childish
vanity
radical change
pseudo-arguments
Schizophrenic
hatred and bigotry.
shut up
brain-eating mush
spouting extremist views,
corrosive bilge
crybaby
Raving mad
The manipulation of public fears and prejudices for short-term political advantage
Q. Guess where those words and phrases appeared today?
A. The largest and most respected conservative blogs and magazines in America.
That is the level of reasoned debate in America, today.
The left demonizes the right and the right dehumanizes the left…or vice-a-versa. Both sides justify themselves and rationalize away any question as to their own veracity, objectivity and reasonableness.
If this behavior continues, if you do not unite as American citizens under The Constitution – as written and intended by the founders – there can only be one result. A result that both sides claim to fear.
None of you, or very few among you, at least, will hold yourselves accountable or responsible for that result. The words from your own mouths, on both sides, will condemn us all to years of violence and destruction.
Online Library of Liberty
Liberty Library of Constitutional Classics.
refer also:
‘Thomas Jefferson Inaugural Address, 1801.’
He just has to be a crazy right winger. He just had to be. (I’m clicking my heels together)
80. goy:
“Adkisson, for instance, whose acts you hypocritically just used to make political “hay”, nimrod). ”
Imagine that. I can’t believe anyone would do such a thing. And yet, there he was all hopped up on Glenn Beck and blasting away at liberals.
“projection and straw man fallacy” . . . you forgot one . . . moral adolescence. Don’t shortchange the third thingamajig in your “ACME JUDGMENT KIT.”
You’re exactly like everybody else I’ve met in life who thinks they’re the smartest person in the room. They’re not.
@97. “skeeziks”: – Imagine that. I can’t believe anyone would do such a thing.
Keep digging, fake vet. Never mind that you’ve hit bottom on the desperation meter. But do me a favor and take a break for a minute while I go make some popcorn.
- You’re exactly like everybody else I’ve met in life…
Heheh. Sounds like the common denominator in that equation would be… ah… you.
Cheer up though, you couldn’t possibly have seen that coming, buried eye-ball-deep in that self-righteous, self-absorbed, self-promoting little fantasy projected on the inside of your forehead. You call it “reality”. How cute.
Seems the deranged left wing moonbats are trying to emulate their Mohammedan Terrorist brothers what with flying planes in to buildings and now shooting up the Pentagon. Yet more evidence that idiotic left wing demagoguery and rabid Mohammedanism are cut from the same cloth and attract the same sort of deranged people and are at heart anti civilization.
Warren Bonesteel while your rant does at first glance look to be reasonable what you omit to do either accidentally or more likely deliberately is to fail to point out that left wing moonbats apply those epithets to right wingers usually without any justification at all apart from their own ‘projection’. Whereas as in the case of the left wing moonbats such as those who flew the plane in to the building or the recent one who shot up the Pentagon and the LYING MOHAMMEDAN BOGUS POTUS these epithets are logical and deserved. And dont get me on to the Mohammedans whose CULT is routinely absolved of all responsibility almost before the shots stop echoing.
Warren:
When someone walks up to the Pentagon and tries to murder two Marines in cold blood, probably as a precursor to a much larger planned massacre, and when that same person cites as his motivation the most bizarre and patently delusional conspiracy theories, how would you LIKE us to describe him? Sane? Reasonable? The reason Zombie and most other bloggers are calling him “nutball” “whackjob” and “psycho” is because the guy obviously is a psycho nutball whackjob, Thomas Jefferson and the other august men of the powdered-wig era didn’t have to deal with people like this guy who use automated deadly weapons to act out deep-seated psychoses and anti-patriotism of a kind most likely unheard of in 1801. So they had the luxury of insisting on respectful debate with fellow reasonable men. We no longer have that luxury.
But if you think about it, by “dehumanizing” Bedell, Zombie’s actually doing the liberals a favor, because the whole point behind this essay is that we SHOULDN’T condemn and villainize our opponents based on the actions of this one “violent psychopath.” He’s essentially humanizing the rest of the left by segregating out this exceptional case as a non-representational outlier.
Alex Jones and Ron Paul are 9-11 Truthers!
but in the Age of Obama (Aquarius) these Kooks are acceptable
just as long as they say what ‘you’ want them to say.
A few years ago RuPaul started claiming that Bush had secret
hidden Concentration Camps!
see http://www.google.com/search?&q=Ron+Paul+Concentration+Camps
And now Glenn Beck helps the Kooky Ron Paul push his nutty
screwball lies. Is this what the Republicans need?
http://www.videosift.com/video/Ron-Paul-Pushes-FEMA-Concentration-Camp-Lie-with-his-BFF
And then CPAC overwhelmingly supports the KOOK Ron Paul….
What the *&^%$# is going on? Has the world gone mad?
This is sickening! The Republican Party is Ross Perot’ing itself.
Yes, he’s certifiable, and ironically doesn’t fall under the profiles set out by the DHS memo.
It’s hard to imagine a crazier belief system than 9/11 denialism, I don’t call them truthers, because they have nothing to do with the truth
Back to the title of this post…
Anti-Bush Truther shoots up Pentagon;
Should we play the political blame game?
YES! But placing blame is not enough. The CANCER must be cut out
at once before the deadly DISEASE of Libertarian Kookism spreads
any further.
There is a reason that these Libertarian KOOKS only get 00.001%
in National Elections. And they are responsible for a good deal
of the problems within the Republican Party.
Libertarians are NOT Republicans, they are NOT Right-Wingers,
they are Not Christians, they are Libertains! And there are not
enough of them nationwide to even matter votewise. But if allowed
to infect and fester they will destroy any chance the Republican
Party has to regain its conservative roots.
98. goy:
“Heheh. Sounds like the common denominator in that equation would be… ah… you.”
Gee, goy . . . funny how that works, the common denominator in all of my experiences is me, whereas you think you’re the common denominator in everybody’s experiences . . . it’s that pesky self-righteous moralizing among conservatives that leads to such hubris.
Hey, I hear Palin is shopping a reality show. I gotta admit, that’s as American as it gets. How long till one of her brood gets arrested do you think?
Except Beck has explicitly debunked the camps rumor, nice try again, Now Bedell seems to have been Cheech and Chong/Method man level obsessive, so that might be an overlay to this, to the
obsession that seized him.
#105 skeeziks – Really, skeez? You are so misinformed. Palin is seeking to do a documentary on AK. You should try to get your info from other sources, because the ones you use simply aren’t getting it done.
“It’s not that Liberals are ignorant. It’s just that they know so many things that just aren’t so.” – Ronald Reagan
Still true, today.
I just listened to an Audio recording by John Patrick Bedell
where he clearly, sanely and rationaly defined his political
belief system. He was a LIBERTARIAN. PERIOD!!
He didn’t rant or rave like a looooney liberal retard (like Sean
Penn or Alex Baldwin or Alan Colmes). It was a well thought out
LIBERTARIAN attempt at persuasion.
The guy was smart. In fact alot of what he says is TRUE!!
But he was a LIBERTARIAN.
This man was not taught his truths by Rush Limbaugh, Hannity,
Ann Coulter, Ronald Reagan, or Newt Gingrich. It was pure Ron Paul-ish, Alex Jones-ish Libertarianism. Actually he is saner
than Alex and smarter than R. Paul!!
But go ahead and label him a Democrat..
Libertarians and Democrats are both ENEMIES of the Conservative
movement.
Read the technical books about 9/11 and you will all see Bedell was right. Also, Bipolar people are extremely intelligent and can ‘See’ things others can’t. Ask a psychiatrist who has a strong concentration in Bipolarity. It is also a major reason they are constantly harassed by IA’s both here and abroad. When a bipolar person has an episode, if necessary, it takes six+ men to subdue him or her. We all know energy is indistructible, especially an energy such as that which does not come from Earth.
@106. “skeeziks”: – …the common denominator in all of my experiences is me…
Thanks, fake vet, that was a delightful confession, because it so unwittingly reveals your narcissist, morally adolescent view.
To review, your self-absorbed statement above was “… everybody else I’ve met in life who thinks they’re the smartest …”. Think about that statement; it does nothing but express your assumption about what others think.
Since what others think is something you can’t possibly know, but can only assume, it’s not part of your “experience”; it is – by definition – part of your fantasy. If you reach a point in life where you’re capable of looking at your own thought process objectively, you’ll see that in heartbeat.
- Hey, I hear Palin is shopping a reality show.
I believe you’re right. When I first heard, I thought it was a stupid idea. But I’ve since reconsidered.
18. A.W.: Wrote:
“I mean it takes a special breed of stupidity to think fire can’t melt steel, given that fire melts steel every day in the steel mills.
OMG, I nearly choked to death laughing so hard at that comment! I think
the left is so baffled as to how free thinking individuals can organize themselves into a group and protest, without having someone pay them to do it or throw some musical talent in, just before they come on stage and claim the crowds were there to see them instead. It’s really hard to have a battle of wits with so many unarmed people. It’s unfortunate, but a real example of ignorance to have Skeeziks keep trying to, to, well, what the heck is that all about anyway? Reads like somebody off their meds. And Leatherneck, “saving the taxpayers millions.” Roger That, Too bad he was not ZBM-2.
It appears that Bedell did write a lot of conservative-sounding rants about private property rights citing von Mises, a conservative economist. However, it appears his concern for property rights springs from his marijuana cultivation and distribution. He wanted marijuana to exempt from pesky drug laws. Bedell also wanted to create a new money based on the market value of a gram of marijuana, a kind of cannabis cash that replaced our fiat money.
114. goy:
Nothing unwitting. No narcissism. Just a simple fact, which explains your inability to grasp the idea of an “experience.”
“Since what others think is something you can’t possibly know . . . ”
Really? How can anyone possibly know what YOU think then? If what you say is true, an individual’s thought can not escape the confines of their mind. And yet we somehow manage to understand each other. I think they call it communication.
Your contrariness is perfunctory and smacks of moral adolescence.
108. Marc Malone:
prove it
@117. “skeeziks”: – Nothing unwitting. No narcissism.
Speaking of moral adolescence.
- Really?
Yes. Really. Here – let’s take this down to a level even you can grasp…
You can hear what others say. In your case, you can try to comprehend what others write (keep working on that one). But you can’t know what they’re thinking – least of all how smart they think they are. That, you can only assume.
Your assumptions are not experience, fake vet. They’re fantasy. Enjoy it. It’s all you’ve got.
Well… that and Sarah Palin’s upcoming weekly, hour-long campaign program. At least you’ll get to see what a complete fracking wasteland the North Slope really is.
You anti truthers are like a bunch of little children saying, “I know Santa Clause is real because I left milk and cookies for him and when I woke up in the morning the milk and cookies were gone and there were presents under the tree just like my mommy and daddy said there would be!” (Run on sentence intended.)
Oh sure, you’ll write back all upset and saying prove it, prove it, prove it, etc.
but I’m not here to tell you that there is no Santa Clause. I’m here to poke fun at you and say I’m going to use you. You won’t believe that I’m using you because you won’t see me directly controlling you. You will trust the words from your government more often than not and I (i.e. others like me) will write most of those words. You will not understand how to do what I do, thus you will say that such a conspiracy can not possibly exist. Someone would talk. Then ofcourse, some people do talk and you call them crazy because you can not understand how liars do what they do.
You will go about your life some of you rich, most of you not, never thinking too deeply about events that don’t relate directly to your personal life. Don’t be upset, it’s only natural to do this. There is only so much time in a day.
Call me anything you want. I am you, only more skeptical. I am you, only smarter. I don’t care to prove it to you. I don’t care if you believe me. I get richer if you don’t believe. I know how to manipulate you better if you don’t believe. I know to tell you what you want to hear. I know that you will challenge my words less often if I tell you what you want to hear.
Steel get’s melted by fire you tell yourself. Keep telling yourself that. Simplicity is good. Simplicity makes money. I make money on your simplicity. I see you as cattle; as a machine. A work horse to be used and then turned into dog food when it can work no more. I see you as a means to an end. I do not regret things the same way that you regret them. I do not feel as you feel.
I do feel pity sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. When I do, I go about helping others. I tell them that there is a Santa Clause. It helps to ease their mind. I tell them of a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow; that if only they could run fast enough or far enough, they could find it. I tell them hope is just around the corner and they listen. They want to listen. They want to believe.
@Carpenter
“If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is. Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy. I believe there are legitimate government functions. There is a legitimate need in an orderly society for some government to maintain freedom or we will have tyranny by individuals. The strongest man on the block will run the neighborhood. We have government to insure that we don’t each one of us have to carry a club to defend ourselves. But again, I stand on my statement that I think that libertarianism and conservatism are traveling the same path.” -Interview published in Reason (1975-07-01)
Clearly this guy was:
a) Nuts
b) A Truther
c) A dumbass (you have to be to accept the Alex Jones narrative
d) Of the most radical shade of libertarianism (As Reagan put it)
Painting libertarians with a broad brush doesn’t make you seem anymore intelligent or “conservative”. It just annoys and alienates mainstream libertarians, who are becoming a decent part of the electorate (read: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/10/27/gallups-conservatives-and-libertarians/ http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/02/02/the-libertarian-vote-new-returns-trickle-in/). Equating the amount of votes that the Libertarian Party gets with the impact libertarians have in elections is really misleading, as there are libertarian factions in both the Republican and Democrat Parties (far more in the Republican party).
P.S. Please don’t try to say that Reagan was misquoted or didn’t really mean what he said (I’ve had conservatives tell me that before). The idea that one of the best orators in the history of the United States was misquoted or misspoke is laughable.
I used to think that the truther movement peculiar to the Left. But here’s an interesting article from Forbes (not exactly Marxian, Left-wing website) about Truthers on the Right. http://blogs.forbes.com/digitalrules/2010/02/tea-party-truthers-are-neo-john-birchers/
@120. James Dunet: – Steel get’s [sic] melted by fire you tell yourself…
Nope. No need to do that.
Steel begins to lose its structural integrity at prolonged exposure to temperatures above 400°; it loses 50% of its strength at temperatures above 1000°. Any building fire – and certainly one accelerated by burning jet fuel or 6,000 gal. reserve fuel tanks such as those housed in WT7 – can easily reach these temperatures. So the point at which steel actually melts is, uhm, moot.
Enjoyed the steamy, faux intensity of your parody though. Rock on!
@ Bob of the Moose
In my experience most people who call thierselves “Libertarians” are actually either LiE-bertarians or Liberal-tarians. Most! Not all.
And I agree with you that “..very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” Some of my favorite people in the relevant media call themselves Libertarian or agree with its basic ideas(Coulter, Boortz, ect..)
But the Libertarianism we see today seems to produce a Alex Jone-ish type of KOOK Libertarian much in the same way that little Liberals are mass manufactured and produced by our public school systems and by the LIEberal Media.
Little Liberals (or lib larvea) are Hatched, manufactured and created! They are built from the ground up to serve an electoral need. The sickness of liberalism is forcfully infected into thier little developing minds. Libertarianism (or what is called libertarianism today) works in the exact same fashion!
Libertarianism (today) is pure propaganda and NOT very popular.
It is built upon LIES! And Libertarians will forever remain a 00.001% of the voting public!
But if they kick out the KOOKS and pre-prosecute the kook wierdos they could attract enough Republicans and Conservatives to make a difference. But that would mean throwing the LewRockwellian/AlexJonesians OUT OF THE PARTY for good.
@ Goy and others.
I know that steel weakens under prolonged high heat exposure. What strikes me as odd is that the WTC buildings with asymetric damage up top collapsed nearly straight down. I watched the videos many times and was stunned at how smoothly, relatively speaking, the collapses went. The the liquid fuel would have pooled somewhere if it could have and the fire would have weakened some parts of the two towers faster than others. They would have toppled as weaker parts of their structures gave way in an asymetric fasion, not come straight down (just as if all their supports had been blown out/weakened at the same time.)
The official excuse is that the towers were designed to do so if I remember correctly. However building 7 also collapsed like a controlled demolition that day with no plane crashing into it.
The fact that all three collapses looked a lot like a controlled demolition is another reason that I can not simply take the official story at face value.
Read ‘The Prince’ by Niccolo Machiavelli to get a good idea of how liars high up in governments can function should they feel it necessary.
@127. James Dunet: – I know that steel weakens under prolonged high heat exposure.
Apparently you don’t, since that’s all one needs to know in order to explain the damage pattern that resulted from the various collapsing building.
WTC7 may as well have been hit by a plane, given the impact it experienced as a result of the towers’ collapse. It burned for HOURS before the building’s steel structure finally weakened, and if you had any familiarity at all with WTC7′s actual architecture, you would know that a collapse on one side of the building would almost immediately transfer an untenable load to the other side, collapsing that as well, and leading to the appearance of a near vertical collapse. We say “appearance”, because WTC7 damaged both the Verizon Building (see p.21) and Filterman Hall in ways that clearly indicate a NON-vertical, chaotic collapse, not a “controlled demolition).
- … the WTC buildings with asymetric damage up top collapsed nearly straight down.
No. They didn’t.
Numerous photographs taken during the initial phase of the South Tower’s collapse demonstrate – as this one does – that the structural integrity of the building was destroyed precisely at the point that experienced the impact.
Initially, the portion of the building above the So. Tower impact point leaned well in excess of that typically seen during a “controlled demolition” collapse.
By comparing this video (which is unique among the various video records because it was filmed from a fixed, steady tripod, not from a helicopter) and the image linked above, you can clearly deduce that the top portion of the building collapses first on the impacted corner, leaning well over toward that corner before destroying all of that corner’s supports, transferring an untenable load to the remaining supports, and then falling essentially straight down (because ALL support has been collapsed). You seem to be thinking that the top of the building should have leaned over and “fallen off” of the remaining structure, like a children’s building block. That happens in cartoons, not real life.
The collapsing buildings did significant damage to their surrounds almost 200′ above street level – clear evidence of something other than a vertical, ‘controlled-demolition’ type implosion.
If you want to pursue a conspiracy that still has some semblance of plausibility, go read Ben Partin’s initial assessment of the OKC building collapse, which he claimed (as did others) could not have been caused by a low-brissive, ANFO explosion detonated from the position of McVeigh’s truck outside the building. Such a low-velocity explosion, he claimed, could not possibly have imparted enough energy directly to the support columns to cause them to collapse in the manner they did. Much more fun than pretending that the photographic and video evidence of 9/11 show anything other than what they do.
“If you want to pursue a conspiracy that still has some semblance of plausibility . . . the OKC building collapse . . . ”
So, you like conspiracies so long as they’re your conspiracies. you should be getting your check from Orly Taitz any day. Arbitrariness, thy name is goyman.
@129. “skeeziks”: – … you like conspiracies so long as they’re your conspiracies.
More clueless, knee-jerk B.S. from the resident fake vet.
What we know (and don’t) about OKC stands in stark contrast with the endless list of completely debunked “Truther” theories about 9/11. They are very different animals.
Partin’s analysis was never rationally disputed, only ignored, and the physical evidence (the remainder of the building itself) was precipitously demolished before anyone could perform an independent assessment of his analysis. If the seismic evidence of TWO explosions is an indicator – and any reasonable person is forced consider that it is, when viewed in conjunction with two independent audio recordings of the same phenomenon – then there is valid reason for questioning the timing of and motivation for that demolition.
And that’s before we even consider the level of finger-wagging deceit, corruption and propaganda emanating from the Clinton administration during the years that followed.
All of this makes OKC a good, harmless distraction for hopelessly obsessive conspiracy wierd-os (Dunet absolutely qualifies, IMHO) simply because it’s good “Moot Court” material. We will never know for sure whether or not the official story was bogus because the remaining physical evidence was destroyed before reasonable doubts were dispelled.
Meanwhile – as always – your delusional, myopic self-importance forces you to ASSUME. In this case, you ASSUME that I “like” the OKC conspiracy. As always, that’s just your inner straw man weaving a new fantasy. Also the OKC conspiracy is not “mine”. Sorry to burst your bubble. Again.
p.s. poor Orly Taitz would do well to limit her pursuits to the only fact that matters: BHO has never publicly released probative documentation affirming his Article II eligibility to be elected POTUS, and it’s long past time for a federal or State function aimed at preventing such abuse in the future. She’s certainly welcome to send me a check for that advice. You can forward this post to her as my “invoice”.
Heh.
The bottom line is this.
Did Libertarianism turn Bedell into a Terrorist?
To answer that question, and many others, please read this
libertarian article by Murray Rothbard (published March 1989).
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html
Rothbard, one of the Founding Fathers of Liebertaianism, tells us of “Reagans odious legacy”, describes “Reagans Fascism”, explains the “traitorous role performed by quasi-libertarian intellectuals” and in general shows us what all LiE-bertarians really think of Republicans.
They hold all of us in utter contempt!
They flat out HATE Republicans and Conservatives.
They always have and they always will.
Now back to the latest problem. Did Radical LiE-bertarians create the mental condition that caused the death of John Patrick Bedell? YES!!
Now he might have been ill in the first place but LIE-bertarianism was the straw that broke the camels back.
Here is a good example of what LIE-bertarians think of us.
“…As the Gipper, at bloody long last, goes riding off
into the sunset, he leaves us with a hideous legacy. He
has succeeded in destroying the libertarian public mood
of the late 1970’s, and replaced it with fatuous and
menacing patriotic symbols of the Nation-State….”
– Murray Rothbard http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html
Ronald Reagan is described as a “TRAITOR” who “suppressed our “civil liberties” with his “runaway secret police”, while he finally “..achieved at last the stardom that had eluded him in Hollywood, reads the lines and performs….” (quotes from Rothbard) by Libertarians. Don’t believe me? Just ask one.
That kind of Goebellian (of the Joseph clan) Propagaqnda is what drove Bedell insane. He was weak minded to start with and Libertarian Propaganda finished him off. They killed him.
Still don’t believe me? Just ask one, anything, and you will soon see that most of them are either out of thier minds or pathelogical liars.
Bedell hated Bush, believed his administration gave us 9/11, and was a registered Democrat.
Not exactly a tea partier. Not exactly a conservative who wants to bring back Reagan and loves Sarah Palin.
If you look hard enough, there will be something in there about the eeeevil JJJJEEWWWWSSS, or as they say to disguise their hatred, the “zionists”…
Bedell was a psycho leftist, END OF STORY
You are FULL of it Dave.
Anyone can listen to the Audio file of his Manifesto.
http://www.archive.org/details/JPatrickBedellDirectionstoFreedom20061125
He was NOT a Leftist. He preached Ron Paul-ish Libertarianism.
Liberals don’t care about Private Property Rights.
Liberals don’t cry about the IRS as Bedell does.
“…criminal group could use its control of the United States monetary system to print money to advance its own purposes of theft, control and enslavement.”
And Liberals rarely engage in ‘this type of Conspiracy Kookery’ that defies reality.
“This seizure of the United States government by an international criminal conspiracy is a long-established reality.
The murder of the United States President in 1963, the associated murders and institutional subversion…”
Bedell was a Psychotic Libertarian and his Manifesto proves it.
And this is just the BEGGINING Dave. You LiEbertarians created a monster and now he is under all of your beds. Live with it!!
—– The Pentagon Shooter’s Manifesto: A Transcript —–
Hello, and thank you for listening.
Justice is a universal desire of conscious individuals. In modern society, critically important organizations work to ensure that justice is established and preserved. Those individuals who work to uphold justice deserve our thanks, our gratitude, and our support. My purpose in this message is to support those who work for justice by addressing matters that any individual within our existing institutions of justice would find difficult or impossible to address.
The most basic principle of economic justice is the
protection of private property
and the protection of the right to freely exchange that property. Modern governments, however, consistently and
routinely violate the rights of property owners
with the assumption – the incorrect assumption – that government can utilize property more efficiently than its lawful owners can.
As institutionalized theft by property violation becomes increasingly routine and accepted, it has far-reaching consequences for the character and morality of society as a whole.
The injustice of that permeates society
and creates disrespect for the law. On the part of ruling elites, the perception is created that society is to be exploited for the benefit of the rulers. Incentives are created to generate and promote ignorance throughout society to conceal the injustice of that.
As the institutionalized violence of government is used to
violate the rights of individuals to keep and trade their own property, the violation of economic justice inevitably results in the undermining of justice in every other part of society.
Although the establishment of justice and order is a key responsibility of the United States government, the sheer size of the United States economy and the enormous wealth that is devoted to government, makes the United States government a tempting prize for any organization or collection of bandits ruthless and clever enough to seize it. A criminal organization able to conduct its activities from within the center of power of the United States government would have powerful advantages over other criminal groups.
Such an organization, having seized control of the United States government, would derive enormous power from the taxes extracted from the wealthiest society in the history of the world. Such an organization would be able to manage present objections to its corruption with lavish promises of future benefits in a form of generalized bribery. Such an organization, which would necessarily have great financial sophistication, would be able to use the credit of the United States government to issue trillions of dollars of debt to fund its corrupt activities and neutralize objections to its illegitimacy and in so doing, burden the responsible citizens among its victims with crushing financial obligations.
Very importantly, this criminal group could use its control of the United States monetary system to print money to advance its own purposes of theft, control and enslavement. Such an organization would be able to protect its shipments of illicit drugs into the United States while using the power of law enforcement organization to imprison their would-be competitors, and would subsequently be able to distribute those illicit drugs and launder the enormous profits in the huge and minutely-regulated financial markets of the United States. This criminal organization would use its powers to convert military, intelligence and law enforcement bureaucracies into instruments for political control and the domination and subjection of society while discrediting, destroying and murdering honest individuals within those services that work to root out corruption and faithfully serve their fellow citizens.
This organization, like so many murderous governments throughout history, would see the sacrifice of thousands of its citizens in an event such as the September 11th attacks, as a small cost in order to perpetuate its barbaric control. This collection of gangsters would find it in their interests to foment conflict and initiate wars throughout the world in order to divert attention from their misconduct and criminality. The true nature of such a regime would find its clearest expression in Satanic violence currently ongoing in Iraq.
Perhaps worst of all, such an organization would usurp and destroy the historical leadership of the United States toward human freedom and would, while constantly and loudly preaching the glory of liberty, work to lead the world into a new dark age of slavery and terror.
This seizure of the United States government by an international criminal conspiracy is a long-established reality. The murder of the United States President in 1963, the associated murders and institutional subversion, and the manipulation of official inquiries and public opinion was effected by individuals within organizational structures that play a central role in the United States government up to the present day. The coup regime founded with the murder of President John Kennedy utilizes a number of mechanisms to perpetuate its criminal rule.
The most important of these mechanisms is government control of the economy. Government’s enormous tax revenues and even larger government spending give to the coup regime the means and motivation to sustain its rule. The constantly expanding regulation of business makes it possible for the coup regime to further impose its will on private economic activity and conditions the people under its rule to accept whatever totalitarian measures the regime deems necessary. The policies and actions of the coup regime are constantly masked by official deception, as well as the subversion of the free press through infiltration and secret manipulations.
On a deeper level, however, the deceit that the coup regime utilizes to justify its policies is intimately linked with the deceit that is inherent in policies that seize the property of individuals for the benefit of the politically powerful. The most subtle and dangerous of these policies, and therefore most similar rule of the coup regime itself, is the imposition of a paper monetary system throughout the United States. This far-reaching violation of property rights undermines the security of property in a way that works to the benefit of the politically powerful individuals that control the monetary system.
The political and military disasters such as the wars in Vietnam and Iraq that an illegitimate coup regime uses against the people who pay its bills are closely tied to the effects of inflationary paper monetary systems which are themselves intimately linked with financial and political disasters throughout history. The blatant violations of the constitution of limitations on the economic role of the government accomplished through many subtle usurpations over many decades are perhaps even more pernicious than, and are certainly a key motivation for, the violent seizure of the United States government.
In order to establish a firm and lasting basis for justice and sound government, the economic role of the government must be re-examined in every detail. It must be recognized that arguments for government control of the economy and government redistribution of economic resources are generally misguided … or even shameless lies to advance enslavement and conceal theft and murder. Furthermore, it must, once again, be recognized that the most successful means to ensure justice, secure domestic tranquility, and promote prosperity is to ensure the protection of private property.
Thank you for listening.
Mr Zombie,your basic premise is absurd; birthers anf truthers are cut from the same cloth: whacko libertarins.
The difference between murdering those who are perceived as guilty, and killing people who are loosely associated with that guilt is one is intended as punishment, and the other is intended to terrorize the larger society into submission of a political viewpoint.
We all know that the truthers are crazy because they don’t believe that hijackers with box cutters were able to bring down 3 buildings in controlled demolition fashion. That the idea of fires in the top of the building destroyed them all the way to the ground, and blew pulverized concrete hundreds of feet away. That Newton’s laws regarding gravity are not something to be ignored while doing an investigation on the biggest crime scene in US history.