Do Not Touch
May 18th, 2009 - 1:09 pm
Pelosigate is getting weirder:
House Minority Leader John Boehner told FOX News on Monday that “the ball is in the speaker’s court.” If she is accusing the CIA of lying, she “needs to come forward, either present evidence or do an apology, and let’s get this behind us.”
Considering all that CIA did to the Bush administration over the years, you’d think Republicans would be taking a Pox On Both Their Houses position. Then again, maybe they learned not to mess with Langley.
I doubt he is taking the higher path, it is probably not to mess with Langley, watching a train come on, you can’t help but want to pull someone (even if they are the school bully) off the track. They are people and you know the train won’t care if they get hit or not.
This whole scandal is avoiding the core issue – the Democrats were proposing to prosecute Republicans for actions that Democrats encouraged and supported.
Any war time president meets with fierce opposition, much of it opportunistic. The Iraq war has not been different.
Pelosi’s cardinal sin has been her hypocrisy in accusing others of “criminal” positions that she once shared. She and the other Democratic leadership have been taking pot shots all along at the necessary hard decisions the commander in chief has had to make. Most decisions are not black and white but a choice between bad and worst options. Even the least bad option decision has had its shortcomings and weaknesses pitiless exposed and exploited.
However, the Pelosi episode, as Blaine notes, shows that the CIA is a dangerous outfit to any party. Lets hope that the civilian controls are adequate to keep them serving the Republic and not just serving the Agency. Remember how the FBI got out of control.
He’d better be taking a pox on both their houses approach. The CIA’s attitude towards the Bush Administration borders on treason even under the Constitution’s narrow definition and when it comes time to rebuild it from the ground up, there should be mass arrests. And the Democrats, well, of course the Republicans should make hay from this chance to expose their hypocrisy. At a minimum, Pelosi should resign her leadership position. Better if she resigns altogether even though her replacement will be every bit as odiously ditzy.
But Pelosi’s meltdown is a tool to strike back at the Democrats, it is not a tool to strike back at the CIA.
I seriously wonder whether the CIA has a sense of who’s ultimately in their corner — Democrats or Republicans. Or do they pick their targets strictly on a person-by-person basis?
Do we need to nail the CIA for all the leaks they (left-wing Clinton Administration adds) executed against Bush? Yes.
Should we refrain for joining in when the CIA goes after powerful Democrats who are trying to screw us over?
Hell no.
Let’s review: the GOP says Pelosi was okay with the torture that wasn’t really torture and was legal anyway, their evidence is that the CIA briefed her and some others in 2003 or so, the briefings were confidential and we don’t even know what was said and she’s still likely to be under some orders not to say, but the GOP insists that it knows not only what the CIA said to her but that it included everything that was going on. Also, the CIA and the Administration never tortured anyone, but if they had it was legal and okay. But they didn’t. So there.
Pelosi is definitely tainted, but I think the Republicans are unable to grasp the fact that Democrats will eat their own. Especially as an appetizer for the main course: Bush Administration Cabinet Supreme. Try the roast Rumsfeld with a dash of Yoo. The Bybee is delicious. The Cheney is gamey, but the Bush is so tender it just melts off the bone. This will not go well for the GOP.
jon, your review makes no sense at all. Have you been following this? Pelosi says it’s torture (you apparently didn’t notice that) and that those responsible should be jailed. The CIA points out that Pelosi is one of those responsible and therefore, by her own standard, should be jailed. Pelosi lies and slanders, lies and slanders, trying to crawl out form under the boulder she placed upon herself. Your right that the Democrats will self-destruct. This is an example of it.
Pelosi got too cozy with the dishonest smears she threw around under Bush, safe in the knowledge that Bush cares about his country too much to strike back, and she forgot to clean up her act when her protector left office.
No, it’s how I heard it. Pelosi was briefed on something from the CIA, but we don’t know what. In 2003. She’s made some statements since that, while they certainly don’t make me have unwaivering faith in her, don’t suggest anything other than the usual face-saving rather than 5th Amendment-pleading garbage. She’s tainted, she knows she’s tainted, but it’s not easy to say with what, exactly. Unless and until someone can prove with some real documents that Pelosi was fully briefed on something that was conclusively torture AND prove that she wasn’t under some sort of secrecy agreement or other pressure not to reveal what she knew, then she gets the benefit of the doubt from me. Saying “The CIA points out that…” anything conclusively proves nothing.
Do I think she’s guilty of some stuff? Hell yes. Do I see a smoking gun? Fuck no, at least not yet. Also, being briefed (either fully or partially) about ongoing actions hardly makes someone responsible in my book. Culpable in some way, maybe. But responsible? Pshaw. If she was able to stop it, which she apparently wasn’t (remember, at the time she wasn’t the Speaker,) then a case could be made regarding torture from that date forward. But it’s not only uncertain when she was briefed (there are some extra dates, apparently,) it also is uncertain what she was told. Do I trust her? No. Do I trust the CIA? No. Do I really trust anyone in this whole sordid affair? No. Do I trust that it was a sordid affair? Mostly. But that’s why I want–in opposition to her stated position–for there to be a shitload of hearings, grand juries, and if it comes to it, prosecutions of illegal activities. If Nancy Pelosi has something to be ashamed of, then shame on her and I hope she goes down. If anyone else does, then let’s hear it. I think we will, and I think it won’t go well for the GOP.
And that the press cares so much more about slamming Bush, the Republicans, and their supporters than about the country, that it will actively undermine a war effort to bring about a Democrat advantage.
Pelosi assumed that she would be able to get away with this indefinitely, but she forgot that when there’s a Dem in the White House the Executive branch becomes the press’ preferred Good Guys, even over a Dem-controlled Congress.
jon, Panetta has come out and flatly stated that all of those advised six years ago were explicitly told of waterboarding.
Pelosi has repeatedly changed her story to the point of comedy, but you still want to paint her has some sort of victim.
The dumb broad has been caught lying, in public, and you still want to front for her. Knock yourself out.
Casey, I don’t want to front for her. I want to know the truth, and there’s a lot more to come out. I see her as knowing more than she lets on, but the sources are the CIA (liars), Congressmen (liars), ex-Bush officials (liars), Bush loyalists (liars), and journalists (liars). I want a lot of people under oath.
If that’s fronting for her, I guess I’ll have to say I’m guilty of that. I’m a partisan, but I’m a fair partisan. Let’s have everyone say what they knew, when they knew it, what was done, and who did it. Let the truth out, and I have faith in our country to handle things the right way. Keep it hidden, and we’ll have ridiculous situations where minority members of Congress are the only ones being held accountable for undermining the law.
Let’s bring out the truth. So far, we’ve only had shadows and whispers about what she knew when. I want to know what everyone knew and when. Including her.
I don’t want to front for her.
Liar.
I’m a fair partisan.
Liar.
Unless and until someone can prove with some real documents that Pelosi was fully briefed on something that was conclusively torture AND prove that she wasn’t under some sort of secrecy agreement or other pressure not to reveal what she knew
The only thing that’s conclusively tortured is your argument. The interrogations were legal, and she signed off on them. Republicans signed off on them because it was the right thing to do, your lot signed off because it was politically smart. A few years later, it became politically advantageous for Democrats to lie about their knowledge of the interrogations, and like you, they’re pathological liars. She accused the CIA of lying to Congress, jon. For someone like you who doesn’t understand the concept of truth has an independent existence beyond “what’s good for me”, I’m sure that doesn’t sound like a big deal, but for normal people, it is. She’s accused people of a crime. She has no evidence. The end.