Debate Drunkblogging – LIVE!
(All times Mountain)
6:56pm. One martini down, another poured. Waiting for the candidates. Promise to self for a job well done (assuming) a nice smoke on the pipe later. It’s sitting right next to me, along with lighter, tamper, and a fresh pouch of Noble Bachelor (an oxymoron if ever there was one).
6:59pm. I keep hearing reports that Kerry got a manicure today. What’s the problem? The man wants to look pretty, but it’s not like there’s much he can do with his face. Cocktail, anyone?
7:01pm. And we’re off.
7:05pm. “Yes, I do,” says Kerry, and then wasted half a minute thanking everybody. “I can make us safer.” I expect both guys to claim this, maybe they even both beleive it – but it’s BS in the Terror Age.
7:07pm. “I have a better plan.” Nice line, necessary line. But he sounds rushed, and the hand gestures seem unconnected.
7:09pm. Bush is doing that rapid blinking thing already, but he’s speaking slower and more comfortably. Call it a draw. And somebody hire me an at-home bartender – I’m in need of another martini.
7:35pm. “They’re not going to follow somebody. . .” Sweet. Kerry’s taking some rapid note. I’m watching this on Fox. Anyone on other channels getting verboten reaction shots?
7:36pm. Time to mix another drink. I might miss the mext question.
7:39pm “Meanwhile, North Korea has gotten nuclear weapons.” Actually, they got them under Clinton. And that’s no critique of Clinton. There’s nothing, short of a disastrous war, that would have stoppen NK.
7:41pm. I have a fresh cocktail, and Kerry sounds better. Causal connection? Probably, but you’d have to ask Teresa to know for sure.
7:43pm. “Osama bin Laden doesn’t determine American policy,” or words to that effect. Not well delivered, but the words themselves were perfect.
7:44pm. “I would have preferred that he [Bush] did more diplomacy.”
7:45pm. Here’s what we have so far. Kerry is an impressive attack machine. Bush impressively refuses to budge. If I had to guess, the question most viewers will ask is, “In time of war, do I want the debate team captain, or the guy he can’t move?”
7:48pm. “I will hunt and kill the terrorists wherever they are.” That’s the second (third?) time Kerry has used that line, and it’s a loser. For Kerry, it’s a promise. For Bush, it’s a perceived fact.
7:50pm. Kerry is hedging, in a nuanced fashion, his promise to withdraw troops. It’s a MEGO moment, and even a junky like me is getting lost in his answer. On the other hand, I’m drinking.
Also, Kerry’s every answer seems to hinge on “look how much smarter I am.” As I wrote last night, there’s a danger there for Kerry. Try to sound too smart, and he risks making the rest of us feel dumb. That’s no way to win an election.
7:52pm. Ahh – Bush has his opening on Allawi.
Yet Bush is giving us a strangely weak defense of our best ally in the world’s sickest region. It could’ve been a knockout blow. Instead, he gave Kerry a chance to sound smart again, and duck the issue.
7:54pm. We’re back live – for now. Be easy on the page reloads, please.
7:57pm. We’re almost to the two-thirds mark now, and it looks like a draw. A draw is a loss for Kerry, for reasons I’ll get into around midnight or so Eastern Time.
8:00pm. “The president has always had the right of pre-emptive strike.” Kerry said that. His Senate record, however, doesn’t support it. Kerry has scored debate point after debate point, but I’m not sure he’s done so in ways that will be reflected in the polls. His whole “allies” rant seems to depend on his own, personal magnestism – and that’s the only thing he hasn’t demonstrated tonight.
8:02pm. Finally. I mean – finally. Bush is attacking Kerry’s multilateral foundation. Maybe that’s just red meat for semi-Jacksonians like myself. Maybe it’s a real attack. Maybe (probably) it’s how he really thinks. Whatever the cause, it plays well with me, and should play well with security moms.
8:04pm. MOO-lahs. I love it when Bush tries to pronounce foreign words. For all I know, it’s an act. But it left Kerry saying, again, “I think we could have done better.”
I’m bored with both of these guys, and have been almost from the start. But Kerry just annoys me. And he thinks he’s going to win me over by complaining we aren’t TALKING to North Korea? What’s there to talk about? Clinton exhausted talk with them ten years ago. And what did it get us?
8:07pm. Time to make another drink. The talk has drifted to Darfur, which is more InstaPundit’s realm than mine. Back in two minutes.
8:10pm. Bush is showing his multilateral stripes when talking about Sudan. He also sounds pretty informed. Now, Sudan is an unmitigated disaster. It’s also where Bush has been the most multilateral. Draw your own conclusions.
8:13pm. Kerry is smiling as Bush praises Kerry’s daughters and longterm service in the Senate. That was perfect. Bush’s complaints aren’t as well-developed, but he (like Kerry has all night) sounds sincere.
8:15pm. Kerry sounds just as sweet. It’s been a nice moment for them both – and right now, Kerry is (in my mind) scoring his best points of the night. Why? He sounds less like a debater, and more like a human. Kerry has finally found the right pitch. Problem is, the debate is almost over. Only 15 minutes to go.
8:17pm. Methinks he doth protest too much. Kerry, for the umpteenth time tonight, has said he’s never wavered on Iraq. The record says different and, even if it didn’t, that windsurfing TV ad makes it the public perception.
Again, on this response, Kerry has the right tone, and he doesn’t sound overly wonk-y. But it’s even later in the evening – twelve minutes to go.
8:18pm. Kerry’s talking nuclear test ban TREATY? In an age where we-can’t-know-who is trying we-can’t-know-what with nukes?
Prediction: He’ll get ripped for this one on Friday, or perhaps as late as Monday by more thoughtful pundits. Stupid stupid stupid.
8:22pm. I explained months ago why I think bilateral talks with North Korea would be a mistake. I’ll link to that old post later, if someone would be so kind as to remind me. It’s a loser for Kerry, at least in the post-debate spin cycle.
8:24pm. Last question, and neither guy has flubbed anything. I’ll have final thoughts in 90 minutes, after I’ve had a chance to reply to some emails and digest some vodka.
8:26pm. Oh, who am I kidding? I love the sound of my own voice too much to make you wait an entire 90 minutes. Besides, there’s been so much good email, some of it will find its way to the blog, long before I write my final thoughts around midnight.
Third Shiner Bock half gone. A nice bottle of Port standing by, though it would be a rough transition from beer.
Easy on the refresh. All set. Good luck to all of us…
The First 2004 Presidential Debate: Foreign Policy & National Security
I will be updating this post throughout the evening. Be sure to check out Blogs of War guest blogger Preston Ledger
For that all important closeup when he jabs with his finger.
What’s yourt media outlet?
OK, I am hearing it on NPR as I read it on Vodkapundit.
NOW, if only Wertheimer and Evling can shut up.
I have so much confidence in Prez Bush, I won’t even watch the debate. Instead I’ll follow the coverage by this apparently alcoholic blogger.
They just shook hands. Kerry whispered “You’re worse than Hitler” in Bush’s ear.
And he’s already jabbed once!
Beer in right hand, wine in left. Have at it boys, like watching retards fight.
If only W would come in humming the Oompa Loompa theme.
God. I love modern politics. Drunk blogging from the comfort of my digital den.
Radical Islamic Muslims? Redundant, twice redundant? At least he spoke that which shall not be spoken.
boy Goerge likes raising his left hand.
Damn delays on my streaming audio. I’ll be playing drunk catchup. (pun not intended.)
Did not Kerry excoriate Cheney for saying BC04 could keep us safer than KE04?
Maybe I’ve had too much whisky, but I think Kerry looks like the guy that is trying his best not to f– it up. This was the same look Bill Buckner had at the beginning of the 9th inning in Game 6 of the ’86 Series…
Mr. President, what if Kerry wins? Look it’s a bird, of course I’ll win.
Nice fade.
Kerry’s definitely a smoother speaker. But Bush is landing body blows “don’t call Alawi a puppet” while Kerry’s only saying “I’d do it better, I’d bring in the French”
Even though I was looking forward to this debate, I’ve turned it off. It’s just too annoying. If anyone is interested, please have a look at my blog entry, where I liken the feeling of this thing to a “knife fight in a phonebooth”.
It’s a good thing you guys are drinking for this! I just can’t handle it sober.
http://cartagodelenda.blogspot.com/2004/09/debate.html
But a president must always be willing to use troops..
erm.. wait..
As a last resort!
God, every time Kerry says something about our “allies”, my blood pressure rises and in my head I’m thinking “France”. I wonder if I’m the only one.
Kerry is smother but he gives no details about what HE would do. It’s sounds like “I’d do everything bush is doing but I’d do it SO MUCH BETTER, because I am the almight Kerry”. Get over yourself, ass.
And Bush’s best defense is a good offense is true and resonates well with football America.
I agree, it’s looking like a draw to me too. But as we all knew, Kerry needs to win in order for this to help him.
In solidarity with you and Swanky Conservative, I am switching from Cuba Libre to Martinis.
I think Bush is doing well by plainly speaking and Kerry is bloviating. He is a boring person.
Bush repeatedly answers questions in the sense of “we did” or “we will”, Kerry’s responses are always “I will” “I did”
Unfortunately, I have to agree with your assessment. It looks like a draw, especially if you approach it not from a informed citizen’s point of view but from an average citizen’s point of view.
I wish Bush were stronger. Still, he’s doing okay.
Kerry was saying that sanctions in Iran won’t work because we haven’t brought France and Germany on board. LOL.
Bush has gotten Kerry on facts wrong a couple of times here, which is kind of impressive, I think.
OF course, then Kerry started speaking and I dozed off for a little while so I’m not sure what happened after that.
The Lerch with the three purple hearts,
once flamed his pants with his farts.
“Colin Powell,” he said,
“claims our mojo is dead.
But the burn on my Kerry still smarts.”
Kerry: I can do better. I was in Vietnam. I can do better. I was in Vietnam. I can do better.
And France and Germany will work honestly and freely with me…. Sha.
Steve,
I’ve been drinking for every Vietnam reference and am no longer safe to drive…
I call for bilateral talks, multilateral talks AND a SUMMIT!!!
It’s hard work… but we’re getting the job done…
I’m watching the debates. I’m kind of drunk-blogging like Stephen Green, but working with scotch instead of martinis. I’m biased, sure, but John Kerry is turning me off like no one before. Neither is doing all that great, constantly repeating…
Kerry attacks GWB of “certainty but wrong”. He defends his flip-flopping as “certainty but after getting facts… uh…-jabberjabberjabbermumblepleasenextsubject… uh… certainty in global-warming and stem-cell-research!”
http://www.allahpundit.com/archives/001036.html
I’m with Geraghty. At this point, expectations are so low that all Waffles needs to do to “win” is to avoid contradicting himself for an hour. No small task, but I think he’s ready. Allah’s got a headache and having…
*** JFK SAID HE WILL STOP U.S.A. NUCLEAR RESEARCH ***
I call for bilateral talks, multilateral talks and a summit, and free passes to Disneyworld. Yeah, thats the ticket.
Hong Kong Fooey
Green is on a roll, too….
Pre-Game Jitters
I always get nervous when Bush suits up to go into battle and represent my positions on war and peace. I’ve found his public speaking in defense of pre-emption to be repetitive, simplistic and full of rhetoric, a style that…
…physically painful.
I picked a *bad* week to stop drinking.
“We didn’t have a plan to win the peace.”
I think it may have been here, but maybe elsewhere, but someone’s blog recently asked the question: Can anyone name one war, just one, where there was a pre-war plan to win the peace?
“I call for bilateral talks, multilateral talks AND a SUMMIT!!!”
Heh. A summit! That’ll fix it.
I am so amazed that Kerry still mentions Vietnam. I mean, way to go against type there. Generally if you have something that people have been making fun of you for for months (how much you bring up vietnam) the best way to deal with that is to bring it up a whole bunch of times when the question has nothing to do with vietnam? huh? really?
Oh, yeah. I’m not drunk-commenting, but I did have a big bowl of chili. Does that count?
Why is it NOT ok to “go it alone” in Iraq, but for some reason it IS ok to do so in North Korea? Am I missing something?
“I call for bilateral talks, multilateral talks AND a SUMMIT!!!”
If we’re talking about Summit, the microbrew from St. Paul, we might be on to something.
Bush: We need China’s leverage against the NoKos. Good strategery, Kerry looks like a lap dog to Kim Jong Il now (and yes, think about what the Koreans do with dogs– damn bastartds.)
But the Yankees win the AL East, woohoo!
Did Kerry just say “treblinka” square?
Oh, and in case you’re thinking of going out and reading Kerrys Book, “The New War” Save your eyes and your cash. Its a painful read.
I can point out, of course, that “mullah” does have an accepted pronunciation with the “oo” sound of “foot,” though not that of “moo.” See a dictionary.
Most people do seem to go with the schwa sound, though. Anything Arabic derived has tricky vowels, though.
It’s past Bush’s bedtime. They’ve got to hold these earlier in the evening.
I wonder what anyone will make of “nuclear proliferation” as Kerry’s answer to the world’s biggest threat. Last I saw, more people are dying from terrorism than nukes.
Maybe the next drinking game should be a shot every time Kerry says “strong alliance.”
If Kerry were physically in my living room I would have thrown a tomato at him when he said he defended our country in vietnam etc..etc… and then I would have thrown some fruit when he said stronger at home blah blah blah…
Bush is giving an outstanding close.
Well, at least we now know that Vietnam is back on the table. Go Swifties.
“Kerry, for the umpteenth time tonight, has said he’s never wavered on Iraq.”
Not a good line. As said, no one believes it, and it smacks of accusing us of being to stupid to understand his consistent, yet nuanced, position.
Overall, I think this format is ridiculous, the division of subjects among the debates is unhelpful to voters, and neither candidate has been impressive enough to keep me watching the whole debate.
Maybe the VP debate keep my attention better.
OK Stephen,
Another great job, however, even with my 500ml+ intake of Danish vodka could I have forced myself to watch this.
Your blogging, in conjuction with Powerlines soberblogging and the Bush campaigns debatefacts auto-updated site are all I know of the debate.
TV is tuned to Air Force – Navy football, will wait for debate closing comments before passing out.
Mike
Nuclear test bans aren’t as big a deal as they used to be. We have the really good supercomputers to do simulations. However, I am against the U.S. doing anything that isn’t in its national interest.
I’m more annoyed by Kerry throwing global warming out there as something that actually exists rather than a very shakey theory. Every time a lie is repeated it is strengthened.
We did bilateral talks with NK for a long long time. Didn’t work then, won’t work now.
However, since most citizens don’t follow politics as much as we do, I give the slight nod to Kerry overall. Not in my mind, but my projection of what I think the average citizen will think.
Oh crap, the last debate’s going to be on my birthday. Sorry, but I ain’t gonna be a geek that night.
For domestic issues: low taxes, less government. Well one out of two is, um, well, one out of two.
beer and gin and tonic and vicodin and a big fat bowl-bloggin here, did anyone else catch when Kerry was all ‘I was laughing at your girls’ and Bush cracked up and said “we try to keep em on a leash”
WE TRY TO KEEP EM ON A LEASH!?!? amazing!
also the ‘what are we going to say to our allies, ‘come join us in… this great DIVERSION? help us win the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?’ part was really funny.
One brief note, the reason that Bush grimaced when Kerry mentioned stem-cell research is that the pre-debate agreement stipulated that the whole shindig was on national security points.
Thanks for the blogging. My only point of disagreement, in fact, is in your choice of beverage. Martinis require gin, not vodka (with apologies to Mr. Bond). Cheerio!
Thanks for this Stephen. I saw about 1/2 of one question (darn this Afghan time zone) – something about Kerry referring to Charles DeGaulle and JFK during the Cuban Missile Crisis – was I having an auditory hallucination?
No mention of Israel, palestinians, and Roadmap… and that’s a huge foreign policy item.
Why did Jim Lehrer not include it?
I am on the other side of the world, it is 2.33 pm on Friday, but to show my solidarity, I have drunk a few wines too…Hic!
I agree it was a tepid performance by both candidates, but allowing for the fact it is the first debate; it has been going for such a loooong time; and it was so highly anticipated; I think Bush is a clear winner. He is sincere, authentic, and surprisingly at ease. Bush is constantly portrayed as an oaf on Foreign Policy and his verbal skills are mocked at every opportunity. Tonight he has acquitted himself well, is committed and confidant, and comes across as understated but totally committed. Kerry only excels as being the “other” candidate; a lukewarm, flip-floppy, President “lite” version. Why would anyone bother? (Re the “Moo-lah” pronounciation, I have found in these PC days that ridicule of an accent or lack there of, is considered bad form by the left, so whats the deal with their regular scoffing at Bush? Isn’t his twang a Texan thing??)
Did Kerry actually say that he wanted to give Iran nuclear fuel, and then later say that his biggest fear was nuclear proliferation?
Color me un-nuanced.
DBL,
A good vodka leaves less of a hangover. This I know through years of careful research.
Major John, I can’t answer your question — had to flip to the Yankees win — just want to thank you.
I agree with my prediction that it was a slight Bush victory.
Kerry had a slightly better presentation, but got nailed by Bush on the issue of our alliances. Kerry didn’t even know who was in the coalition, and made no counter when Bush pointed out how he has marginalized and insulted our allies.
Kerry really fell down concerning North Korea. He had a lot of facts wrong, and doesn’t understand the basics of the situation if he thinks he can negotiate without China.
Bottom line: Kerry won a few battles and scored some points as well as looking a little better than Bush, but probably lost the war by leaving huge unanswered questions concerning his leadership capabilities, and making some very poor policy suggestions.
WTF was all the smirking about? After the first 30 minutes Kerry seemed to only smile condescendingly when he wasn’t speaking. I’m surprised noone told him to get rid of that trait.
Also, all that crap about proliferation is simply that – you can’t dismantle Soviet devices any faster than we are already.
Why were there NO questions about Kerry’s work in the Senate. Wan’t it appropriate to ask, “Senator Kerry, what do you see as your 3 greatest foriegn policy accomplishments in the 20 years you spent in the Senate?”
NT
I think Kerry made a big mistake at the end with that “I agree he was a threat, the question is what do you do about it.” The first thought in my mind was, well the president removing him from power seems to have taken care of it. By the way, God bless, Maj John, and keep safe.
Lost the site most of the evening. Oh well, congrats on the influx.
Overall, draw sounds about right. My little count started at B for each and brought them up a notch for good points, down a notch for bad. The result. KERRY B- , BUSH C+ (maybe C if you count his pauses and stumbles, but it’s expected, so I don’t). End result, almost a push, which helps Bush overall, since “chimpie” is expected to be soooo dumb.
Kerry’s chance to take over, didn’t take it. Bush will win. The next two aren’t even worth bothering. The VP debate should be worth it though, just to see Chaney work Edwards like a HS VP works a smart ass sophomore. Watching him in the ’00 debates made me think of a bored adult playing a game against a bunch of children (and at that point I didn’t even conceive of voting Bush/Cheney, EVER).
Cheers, VodkaP, carry on.
Vodka, I think you (and your readership) are showing their bias. I try to do my best to be as objective as possible (which happens best, I find, when drunk), and I think it’s pretty clear that this was a Kerry win. Kerry was a little repetitive: Bush was a lot. Kerry tried to make himself very clear and precise, something he rarely achieves, but he did here. He didn’t come off as arrogant (like he often does). He spoke right at the American people, made his case, and had Bush on his heels for some of the debate. Bush’
s best moment was his prepared closing statement, and his attempts at human story – his words about Kerry’s family were nice and seemed sincere to all but the most liberal listener.
But I think we’ll see a bounce. Hindsight is 20/20, and you can spin this all you want, but I think, pretty clearly, that Bush did one thing – repeat himself and not waver. Kerry did the same, but was on the offensive the whole night, and effectively so. Bush repeated himself too often and lost the debate (although I do appreciate your jab at the “Debate Team Captain” vs “Slow and Steady”).
Initial reactions (sorry on Tivo). Bush, despite a few good points, did awful. The only upside for Bush is that Kerry, did a fantastic job at saying absolutely nothing. His plan for Iraq is a summit. That won’t fly.
And thank God, Kerry didn’t do anything on Moolahs. Sorry, this is my first true fear that Kerry, with the help of an unquestioning media (WHO ARE THESE ALLIES WHO WILL HELP US!??!?), Kerry could pull it out. Am I panicking? Probably. I’m hopped up on coffee.
Great work Vodkaman.
Other Live Bloggings of Note
Get old by Internet standards reflections here:
Kerry’s stance on the pretenses for war in Iraq are pretty much moot. It would only matter if he were running for President in 2000.
What will he do in 2005 that’s different from Bush? Well, there’s those allies he keeps talking about, but France and Germany have nixed any support, so in the end it’s call up more Americans for 2 divisions to send to… Afghanistan?
Yeah, that’ll piss off the Pakistanis. You know, the Muslims we’ve reached out to that decided to abandon ties to the Taliban to consider working with us. That Kerry (rightly) insulted for blowing Tora Bora.
Also, the one key thing Kerry did was this: Prove to his base he could be strong. Lots of liberals see this as the first real positive thing to happen to Kerry in weeks, and they’ll latch on to it, you can count on it.
Debate Live Blog
Jim Lehrer-rules recitation-blowhard
No opening statements but John Kerry decides to give one anyway.
Kerry will have a summit- the French love summits.
Bush is on, slow start but he recovered. Saddam in a cell-good!
“Solemn duty” fo…
I’m afraid Bush got his arse kicked. Chalk up a 2-3% bounce for Kerry, 50% of which will last until the election. He won because he avoided his typical “horse’s ass” moments, and because Bush was not intense enough. Also, anybody still silly enough to be a “swing voter” probably doesn’t have enough sense to know that Kerry can’t deliver on everything he promised.
Finally, maybe most important, Kerry avoided the flopsweats.
Kerry’s inconsistent even when he’s not actively flip-flopping. First he bitches about how much the war is costing, then promises to send more troops? WTF? Does that make the war and reconstruction cheaper somehow in Moonbatland?
The special forces comment was also facetious. I remember reading on froggy ruminations that it simply isn’t possible to just “double” Special forces by waving a magic wand. Essence of the argument was that “they’re Special because they’re hard to make” – logistically it isn’t possible to do so any faster.
Jonathan Stroud -
wither regard to 8:50pm comment – although his speech didn’t seem elitist or arrogant, I though his facial expression – whenever he finished speaking or was listening to Bush – to be very smirky. It almost seemed like he forgot what his handlers said at the beginning “Don’t smirk like an arrogant ass.”
I thought it was a tie. I wish President Bush had sounded more like his usual confident self, he shouldn’t try to be so nice in the next debate cause on TV it looks like he is being too timid. Maybe Bush wasn’t feeling well cause he stuttered a lot more than he usually does. I also didn’t like when he said “I hope so” and “I hope not” so much like about Iran and the other times. If Kerry is going to harp on the “I have a plan” line like abroken record it sure sounds like we’re about to hear “Hope is not a plan” and he is just giving Kerry an opening.
No way is Kerry getting a 2 or 3% bounce. I don’t think either one of them particularly helped themselves, but that’s not good enough for Kerry. We’re a month from the election and just had an hour and a half debate and he still can’t clearly state his position on Iraq. Saddam was a threat, but the war was a mistake is not going to play well. Also, if he’s still trying to prove to his BASE that he can be strong he may as well pack it in.
I started out the evening in Bush’s corner and I’ll still be there tomorrow morning. Having said that, I think Kerry got the best of it this evening. He’s a smoothie and GWB is not.
Jeezuz H, they both sucked, IMHO. This would most definately be the year to do the libertarian vote thing, IF WE WEREN’T AT WAR!
I fell asleep for 20 minutes in the middle, and I was looking forward to this thing for weeks! Not a comforting thought….
I have to give the edge to Kerry, because I feel Bush should have kicked ass, but he didn’t deliver.
Also, I wasn’t aware that you are a pipe smoker, Stephen. Me too. Just another thing in commom. Its amazing how the net brings birds of a feather together.
I listened halfway on the radio while smacking Refresh on about 8 blogs.
I think it was like the first debate in 1984. Like Mondale, I think Kerry did somewhat better. He sounded better. Bush seemed, well, confused or maybe ticked off at times.
Just like when you are shouting answers at the idiots on the game show, I kept hoping Bush would hit the balls right back.
FDR didn’t invade Mexico, but he DID invade Morocco. In fact, we NEVER invaded Japan until they surrendered.
Yes, OBL is the one who attacked on 9/11. No, Al Queda is not the only group that wants and is able to attack us.
Of course, if it had been I up there, I would have done somewhat less well than Quayle in 1988 or Stockdale in 1992.
I also think it will have about as much effect on the election as the first debate in 1984 did on that one.
“Why is it NOT ok to “go it alone” in Iraq, but for some reason it IS ok to do so in North Korea? Am I missing something?”
My thoughts exactly when I heard that.
As for the rest, I’d call it a draw on substance. Then again, I went in with predispositive dislike of Kerry so maybe I didn’t see points he may have scored with people who didn’t already despise him.
I don’t think Kerry will gain any permanent ground as a result of this debate, which makes this debate a loss for him.
Maybe he can make up some ground during the domestic policy debate, primarily because his flip-flops on that front are less blatant.
However, with any people that were waiting to see better a plan for the WOT, I don’t think Kerry made any ground. Bush emphasised Kerry’s inconsistent positions on that topic and Kerry totally failed to counter that impression. His sum total defense was, “Yeah I said that, but…”
Not impressive.
As an aside, WTF does my cat never give a shit what I do ’til I sit down at the computer? Then he walks into the room, jumps up on the monitor and stares at me, making noises which can only be translated into English as “Pet me asshole.” Anyone else have that problem?
Having drank a bit of my Russian Standard Vodka my parents brought back from Russia, I say this….We need a summit…A Rocky Mountain Blogger Bash Summit!!!
and yes I know summit is spelled wrong…Russian Standard does that to ya.
“Bush seemed, well, confused or maybe ticked off at times.”
I don’t think he ever really looked confused. I do agree that there were several moments where it looked like Bush just wanted to walk over and punch Kerry in his big-ass Patrician nose.
I laughed out loud every time I saw that look.
SF are harder to make – doubling them would take years.
Two more divisions in Afghanistan? I guess I had best start looking for a place for them to stay – I’d put ‘em up, but my B-Hut is full…
Bush isn’t budging because he has nothing to budge to. The man can not speak, he can not even keep a coherent thought together for an entire two minutes. And how about is insipid whining of “It’s hard work”. 11 times. Wow. The Presidency is hard. Who woulda thunkit.
“Try to sound too smart, and he risks making the rest of us feel dumb. That’s no way to win an election.”
…Sure. Great reasoning.
“”I will hunt and kill the terrorists wherever they are.” That’s the second (third?) time Kerry has used that line, and it’s a loser. For Kerry, it’s a promise. For Bush, it’s a perceived fact.”
Funny. Because Bush is doing such a great job of it, launching the world’s biggest distraction. Remember that movie where the president created a fake war to distract the public? Bush went one step further and created a REAL war to distract us from is bungling.
Funny that anyone can even still claim the flip-flop issue when Bush has made so many major ones of his own. The biggest? He said he wouldn’t touch the social security surplus.
That was gone in a year.
Not to mention the utterly ridiculous ‘sensitivity’ comment that the NeoCon’s jumped on.
Kerry is all about WHAT he’d do, but Kerry’s policies must have been written by the Brother Grimm.
Debate Spin
I basically agree with James Joyner:Overall, Kerry was more polished than Bush. We never saw the charming, congenial side of Bush that connects so well with people. We never saw that side of Kerry, but then we never have. I’m
Oh…and back to the MacCallans 12 year-old.
The more I think about it, the more I think Kerry came out on top on this one.
I’m still not voting for the f’er, but I have to give him credit. On this battle, I think he won. He’s got another month to pull me over into his camp. That is extremely unlikely, but this was the opening he needed, and I think he pulled it off.
Come on dubya, don’t let me down….
One of the many softballs Bush didn’t hit out (or return serve, Agassi-like): Lehrer asks what’s the most important important foreign policy priority and Kerry says Nuclear Proliferation. I thought GAFFE!!! The correct answer is “The War on Terror.” Sadly, Bush totally missed that and basically agreed with Kerry, adding after the fact, WMD in the hands of terrorists. Major missed opportunity.
But, hey, here’s something. Kerry is consistent on something. He’s always been against nuclear proliferation. Especially OUR proliferation. Like when are winning of the arms race was causing the Soviets to spend themselves into the ground. Kerry was for a nuclear freeze back in the 80s. He was wrong big-time then naturally. And naturally Senator Nuance misses that funding a bunker busting nuke might just be the best way to destroy destroy a prospective nuclear weapons facility in Iran or North Korea (not to mention taking out Kim Jong license-to-Il”. You can have targeted tactical nukes that create small subterranean laser-guided mushroom clouds or you can use our current arsenal and have major colateral damage. Oh well. At least we’ve found something that Kerry’s semi-consistent on. He’s anti-nuke. Woohoo!
W had way too many silent pauses. But Kerry still looked like a pompus appeaser. Subject wise, this one should have been Bush’s strongest debate. Kerry left all kinds of openings for Bush to hit it out of the park. But, other than beating Kerry’s ass for dissing Poland, He let him off the hook. I’m not worried though, Kerry will probably come off as a stiff in the town hall foremat. Man his wife creeps me out.
Stephen, just for the record, if you want the verboten action shots. The C-Span.org webcast was nothing more than a split screen of the two of them the whole time. Except when Lehrer talked, then they switched to him. So if you want reactions, that is where to get them. Downside is the resolution is crappy.
Good Lord, this was painful to watch. I hate this format. Jim Lehrer missed opportunities to ask real questions. And I really hate this no-confrontation rule. I wanted both of them to get in each others face. There wasn’t nearly enough points made of Kerry’s Iraq flip flopping. Why didn’t George make a point of mentioning Kerry’s August admission that “knowing what we know now I would still have voted for the authority to go to war” and contrast it with the statement Kerry gave Diane Sawyer just a day ago? And I was wincing everytime the president paused…I love the guy, but he’s painful to watch.
Then, I was stupid enough to listen to Chris Matthew and the village idiots on MSNBC. Gawd, someone give me drink.
Glancing ‘Round the Blogosphere
damn these Pajama People are interesting — and funny… unlike Whassisname [continuing to update this... suggestions welcomed.] Llama Butcher’s live blog is great! [much funnier than mine... ] and he makes a great point about FDR’s choice to pursue a …
Debate Number One
Just because Hugh Hewitt says it was a big win for Bush doesn
Mr. Green,
While I have you drunk, do I have to do something more in the sweet spot of what the ladies Fred Lapides posts are built for to get a blogroll link?
I mean, I’d rather not…
Kerry tried to convince America to hire him instead of Bush, but what he needed to do was convince America to fire Bush.
And he left a lot of low hanging fruit out there. Did Bush give Kerry anything to use in the future? I can think of several Kerry statements to use in ads…
Not Quite Live
Green is drunk; Joyner isn’t. Goldstein is having fun with Photoshop. Bush and Kerry were both wearing bitchin’ suits. And Lehrer did a nice job. Kerry is more polished, as you might expect. Sometimes it’s painful to watch Bush struggle…
I’m going back for another glass of port in a second, but here’s my take:
As far as discussion points goes, I’m giving it a draw. Kerry made some good points, Bush made better counterpoints (although his delivery sucked; this really ought to go without saying but I sound like a devotee if I don’t note it), but Bush failed to capitalize on some obvious Kerry weaknesses, which I give him some negative points for. Overall, a draw.
However. It’s Kerry’s job to take the fort, and take it convincingly. Everything else canceled out, Kerry’s sole remaining assertion is “I can do it better”, which I’m, you know, looking at his past couple of decades in the Senate for some substantiation for and utterly failing to see anything that grabs me.
So, on foreign policy and national security, Kerry loses for want of a definitive win. Now, about that port…
Exactly my reaction Slartibartfast.
Pretty much a draw…
Stephen Green, liveblogging the debate: 7:45pm. Here’s what we have so far. Kerry is an impressive attack machine. Bush impressively refuses to budge. If I had to guess, the question most viewers will ask is, “In time of war, do…
Now I’m worried for you, Robin. Unless, of course, you’re somewhere past mildly squiffed.
Did Kerry win the debate?
The folks over at Power Line think he might have.
I’m going to call it a draw…Kerry hit Bush…and Bush didn’t budge. The only problem is that Bush rarely went for the kill…and he could have on numerous occasions.
By the way…Kerry actuall…
The debate
Substantively, I thought this was the best presidential debate I’ve ever watched. The candidates avoided gimmicks (as, for example, in 2000 when Mr. Gore closed in on Mr. Bush’s personal space, which, by the way, backfired) and stuck to the…
“And he left a lot of low hanging fruit out there. Did Bush give Kerry anything to use in the future? I can think of several Kerry statements to use in ads…”
Good point. I agree Kerry did better if you watched the debate as a whole (okay, I watched the first hour), but while Kerry talked about “global test” and quoted freakin’ De Gaulle, I don’t remember Bush giving the Dems any sound bite ammunition.
The results of this debate may look different in 48 hours than they do now.
I was flipping around, so I don’t know what channels had it, but a 527 went on with an ad right away attacking Kerry and bringing in the Beslan terrorist attack. “They want to kill us.” That may have shaken some viewers back into the focus that the GOP wants them to have.
Oh, and Garrett — I think about anyone with a cat and a computer has the same problem you do.
Blogosphere Debate Roundup
My opinion remains: draw. Blogosphere consensus seems to be: draw.
It’s not MUSS-lim, you know, it’s MOOS-lim. I expect MULL-AH is probably a westernized MOO-Lah as well. Methinks Bush used the correct pronounciation.
Though, it would probably be better to use the correct pronunciation (oops).
Glancing ‘Round the Blogosphere
damn these Pajama People are interesting — and funny… unlike Whassisname [continuing to update this... suggestions welcomed.] Llama Butcher’s live blog is great! [much funnier than mine... ] and he makes a great point about FDR’s choice to pursue a …