Berlin-Paris-Beijing Axis?
More short-sightedness from our European friends:
Our European allies might well approve plans to sell China advanced weaponry at the March 25-26 European Union summit that begins today.
The repercussions would be disastrous. Not only could China use new weapons from Europe against Taiwan, but Chinese generals have said they’re prepared to confront U.S. forces in the Pacific if America tries to help Taiwan.
Why would NATO allies put the United States in this position? Money is one reason. But European commentators suspect that France and China want to build a multipolar alliance to counter American “hegemony.”
That’s not to say America’s history in selling arms to tyrants is exactly stellar. The best thing to say in our defense is that our sales were usually aimed at propping up anti-Communist thugs — in the Philippines, Indonesia, the Shah’s Iran, etc. — in support of the broader fight to contain the USSR.
Europe, it seems, would rather cozy up to Beijing in an attempt to “contain” the US.
Well, if they think we can be difficult to work with, wait’ll they try to get something contructive accomplished with the People’s Republic.
Nobody from EU is or will be expecting anything constructive from China. As long as France can get several billions of dollars for their arms EU will be happy and no human rights abuses or anything of this sort will be a problem. I predict that EU will champion China as a major human rights protector after the first contract has been signed.
I’d like to see the PLAN and the French Navies confront the Seventh Fleet. Heh, It’d be the worse ass beating since the Japanese Crushed the Tsar’s Navy at Tsushima. Navies are more than fancy ships. If the Chinese think western tech is all that they need to cross the Stait of Formosa, the have an expensive lesson coming.
Can we vape Paris yet? Please?
Beltway Traffic Jam
Network access didn’t materialize, so the Traffic Jam is a bit late. Fortunately, I was able to escape the worst of it but, unfortunately, there’s…
Vaporize Paris? Ugh — the place smells bad enough as it is — you want those odors drifting around the world for the next 40 years?
EU is definitely doing us a favor. With warships like France’s Charles DeGauille, fighter jets like Saddam’s Mirage, high tech electronics like the ones in the poor lost-on-Mars Beagle, … I’m pretty sure Chirac is Bush’s poodle.
The Communist Chinese government, being the bullies that are all dictatorial powers tend to be believe that with enough bluster, that their adversaries in Taiwan can be frightenend into “reasoned discourse”.
The French, seeing their profits from the arabic petrodollars failling away, see only one market left where there is enough cash to actually buy their goods.
Now – bear in mind – The Viets just reoccupied the spratly islands, which is disputed territory with China. The chinese are “not amused”. Anyone want to bet we are about to sign a “treaty of understanding” with the vietnamese? You think the viets hate us?, they absolutely hate the Chinese. Imagine how happy the Chinese will be if we are given a base in Cam Rahn Bay. Dont think it cant happen? stranger things have happened before.
Now take South Korea – who sits on a border shared with their once cousins, brothers and countrymen who are now so malnourished for so many generations that North Koreans are now visibly physically different than south koreans. Why is this a problem for china? Because if it all goes to hell( and it will, sooner rather than later), China is likely to be the place where most North Koreans try to run to for refuge, not to the hated south. Are refugees a problem? it is when the refugee population is in such bad shape that they have such severe learning disabilities that ehy cannot be retrained to live in the modern civilized world. Imagine millions of refugees coming into china. Now, imagine a dictatorial government in China desparate to maintain the chimera of “order”.
China is also under pressure in its western provinces from Islam and ethnic minority population who want greater autonomy in their lives. You dont hear much about it but its a big problem that frankly scares the hell out of the Chinese. Remember all those “-stan” countries that are our “new best freinds”, they all border China. Add to that the fact that India, who China fought a small war with in the 1960s (over kashmir no less!) is adapting to western democracy and capitalism at a very fast clip. the result is an economy that is leaving China in the dust( freedom and liberty will do that)
Does China feel threatened? you bet it does.
My guess is the Chinese will decapitate the North Korean leadership and take control on north korea for “humanitarian reasons”. The result will be millions of troops tied down in the effort. Why is China pushing Taiwan? to keep Taiwan and the US off balance while they deal with North Korea.
Will europe actually help the Chinese? I hardly think so. But they will bluff and bluster if for no other reason than to keep us from taking advantage of their deterioirating situration.
China cannot maintain control over its people as its people attain greater property rights. With China becoming a trading partner with the west, and with its middle class in sharp growth, the growth and acceptance of capital and property will destory the ability of the communists to run that country in its current fashion.
Aside from the comfort I receive in my belief that all people want more freedom and liberty I live in comfort for one thing:
Seawolf Class Attack submarines beat French aircraft carriers any day of the week.
Um, #3 and #4.
Enough with the cavalier talk, here and by others on LGF, about tossing around nukes. It is vile and disgusting, even if you are just kidding. It resembles, to quote Jeff Goldblum as Ian Malcom, “a kid running around who just found his Dad’s gun”. We are not going to “vape Paris”, because our leaders are much wiser than you are. I’m guessing you are not serious, but a wise soul does not even speak in such a manner.
New then…. re: the French selling to China. If they did sell some serious weaponry… AND Spain and Germany cement their alliance with France…. well, I would just ask how could NATO possibly survive.
And Frank’s writing’s on China are quite good. I’d just add…
If they DID invade and occupy North Korea… woo hoo, I’d send a bottle of wine to Jang Zemin. A Chinese “empire”, with much to lose and to protect, would be infinitely preferable to that pyschotic, poofy-haired scumbag there now. Go China.
And, as you mention about Viet Nam, if China DID take a bold move in Taiwan and/or NoKo, well, every other country in the region, including Vietnam, would sign up with us big time. US base at Cam Ranh Bay? Heh.
History and irony are longtime buddies.
I agree with FRANK MARTIN – the Vietnamese may have a Communist-controlled government, but within the context of history and as a people they are more [non-Hitler] Fascist and nationalist than Communist. At last news there was serious dichotomy, and Communist-led internal govt. purgings going on between nationalist “Communist” Viet cadres versus those cadres that are hardliner and pro-Beijing! As for INDIA Chicom-supported MAOISTS from NEPAL and from inside India proper, and pro-Socialism armed guerillas desire to violently disrupt the current Indian government and establishment, allegedly to start in 2005, and establish what in all likelihood will be another COMMUNIST-DOMINATED/CONTROLLED SOCIALIST INDIAN GOVERNMENT – IOW, like RUSSIA and the LT aim of American Clintonian UNITARIAN poiticians and Left-controlled NEOCONS! Between Russia and China proper, Beijing understands that despite the implosion of the former USSR, and despite successor Russia no longer being a superpower, Russia per se is still, for now, the nuclear- and militarily stronger of the two still COMMUNIST-CENTRIC SUPERSTATES – as China still desires China-specific regional Asian hegemony, within the context of geopol Russo-Chinese resistance to hyperpower America it must therefore modernize its state without risking conflict with both America, and by extansion America’s allies, and the mil-stronger Russia. China must go where America and espec Russia aint, and thats SOUTHWARD into the Indian subcontinent and AUSTRALASIA, as well as OCEANIA, the LOWER AMERICAS, and AFRICA! UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE SUCCESSFUL BUSH ADMIN., AND ALL PATRIOTIC AMERICANS IN GENERAL, THE SELFISH DESPERATION OF THE FAILED LEFT IS SUCH I BELIEVE THEY ARE WILLING TO WILFULLY CAUSE OR INDUCE THE GLOBAL GEOPOLITICAL SITUATION TO “FAIL” IFF IT MEANS FORCING AMERICA, BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE, TO ACCEPT SOCIALISM AND ANTI-SOVEREIGN INTERNATIONAL SOCIALIST CONTROL VIA OWG – BETTER FOR FAILED COMMUNISM AND LEFTISM-SOCIALISM TO RULE A REGRESSED, POOR WORLD THAN NOT RULE THE WORLD AT ALL!
If a second Bush term, or even a DEMOCRAT POTUS, I expect hotspots like IRAN and NK-TAIWAN, etc. to become full-fledged Left-created LIMITED WAR(S) combat zones for Communism, Socialism and the Clintons For me the indigenous nuclearizing of Iran and NK, etc. is nothing more than a PC geopol disguise to give Bush reason to attack these states and thus discredit the US GOP-Right and AMERICA by the Left proclaiming how Bush- and American-led IMPERIALISM and GLOBAL BELLICOSITY HASN’T ENDED! If US Navy and US Air Force journals and analytical reviews are any credible measure, the USDOD believes that IF CHINA, ETAL. IS EVER TO WAGE/MAKE SUCCESSFUL WAR AGAINST THE USA, IT MUST DO SO SOMETIME BEFORE THE END OF THIS DECADE [2004-2010], BEFORE CONTINUING US TECH SUPERIORITY AND DOMINANCE ALL BUT PRECLUDES CHINA FROM EVER MILITARILY, TECHNOLOGICALLY, OR ECONOMICALLY CHALLENGING THE USA! FOR COMMUNIST-CONTROLLED “FASCIST” RUSSIA, COMMUNIST CHINA AND COMMUNIST NORTH KOREA. IT MEANS IFF TO MAINTAIN ANTI-DEMOCRATIC COMMAND SOCIALISM, BE IT COMMUNIST OR FASCIST [PC "DE-REGULATED" COMMUNIST], IS TO EITHER INEVITABLY WAGE WAR, OR ELSE INEVITABLY IMPLODE [RUSSIA/USSR=2X], IN THE LONG RUN! The Failed Left, now ANGRY LEFT, is out for America’s head, to kill America – what the Clintons and the Left want to know is whether America and Americans are willing to fight and die to survive and preserve our identity, our freedoms, and our own nation! LIKE ANY GOOD CRIMINAL MURDERER-KILLER, THEIR AMERICAN AND AMERICANIST-WESTERNIST VICTIMS AIN’T GONNA KNOW, THEY AINT GONNA TELL YOU, AND THEY ARE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING TO KEEP YOUSE FROM FINDING OUT YOU AND YOURS AND YOUR DOG AND YOUR DOG’S FLEAS ARE ALL GONNA DIE SOONER THAN YOU THINK, AND WHATS MORE, YOU’RE ALL GONNA GLADLY HELP THEM KILL YOU! COMMIES HAVE NO QUALMS BEING LIKE CRIMINALS TO ACHIEVE POWER, AND ONCE IN POWER THEY AREN’T GONNA LET YOU AND YOURS DO TO THEM WHAT THEY DID TO YOU – YOU KNOW, THE FAIR, REASONABLE, EQUALIST, LIBERAL WAY, AS HONEST INJUN AS THE BELIEFS AND WORLDVIEWS OF THE ACLU ARE IN THE CLINTONS’ UNITARIAN AMERIKA ONE AND THE SAME AS FOR CONSERVATIVE ICON BARRY GOLDWATER, AS HONEST INJUN AS THE 9-11 COMMISSION COMPRISES FIVE DEMOCRATS AND FIVE “DEMOCRATIC-REPUBLICANS”!? All together now, men, do your best BRITNEY SPEARS and say “OOPS!” ………………………………….upuntil the day free and sovereign America is finally DEAD, which according to the best-for-America LeftNet is circa 2015-2020, or very shortly thereafter!? GOTTA GO – GOTTA WATCH A BEAUTIFUL BLONDE DAUGHTER COMMIT INCEST WITH HER FATHER, AND WILD SEX WITH EVERY BOY SHE CAN FIND, ON TV – YOU KNOW, WHOLESOME FAMILY OR FEMINIST TELEVISION IN AMERICA!
Joseph:
1. Use punctuation and paragraphs. There is a reason why those keys are on your keyboard.
2. Don’t capitalize everything. You are yelling and a lot of people ignore that.
3. Try staying on topic, or if you go off topic, warn people.
4. Remember to take your meds.
Mike
re “immature comments” when you get into a pissing match with a nuclear power, you need to accept that nukes may fly
better paris than nyc, and if the french are truly allying themselves with china, well they are seriously placing themselves in harms way.
im an evil person, very machiavellian, and i see no problem in dropping the bs and telling people that we will eliminate them if they push too hard. paris has been stabbing the us and uk in the back for hundreds of years, so its high time we got rid of them
“Rattling a saber makes noise. Drawing one does not. Beware the quiet man.”
Serious people discuss serious matters in a serious fashion. If there exists a more serious subject than the use of nuclear weapons, I cannot fathom what it may be.
I really don’t see this as THAT big a deal: everyone knows that just purchasing the system is only half the solution. The fanciest platform in the world is useless unless training for the operators comes with it.
As it stands right now, Taiwan is more technically and tactically proficient than the PLAN. Their Perrys and Lafayettes(!) are superior to China’s Sovremennys and their sailors know how to employ them effectively.
Yes, the French and Chinese are playing Harpoon together, but I doubt the French officers are sharing pages from the NATO playbook with their Chinese counterparts. Even if they are, every admiral worth his bars has his own playbook.
Short version: the PLAN can’t get 20+ years of weapons technology and tactics on ebay. The French just need the money now that Saddam’s oil contracts are so much confetti (and fining Microsoft $600M won’t cut it).
Andrew X, what I was doing is called “venting”, also known as “blowing off steam”. I’m less than amused at how France has been acting like an enemy & claiming to be a friend.
As a China watcher, it look more like there’s an attempt to triangulate. A lot of it is based on competition for the Middle East, which China is making inroads on, in part due to the war on terrorism, since the US now has bases in Afghanistan and one other -stan (can’t remember the name).
It was reported two weeks ago that the Frog navy has agreed to do practice maneuvers with the Chicoms:
***
BEIJING (Reuters) – China and France will hold rare joint naval exercises off the mainland’s eastern coast on Tuesday, just four days before Beijing’s rival, Taiwan, holds presidential elections.
China’s official Xinhua news agency made no link between the exercises off Qingdao — about 780 miles from Taiwan’s northernmost point — and the election.
But the show of military strength and solidarity signaled China’s desire to isolate the self-governing island before the vote and its first-ever referendum, which Beijing views as a provocative step toward independence.
“It’s the biggest in scale and the most substantial in content of an exercise between the Chinese navy and a foreign navy,” Xinhua said on Monday, quoting Ju Xinchun, the captain of the destroyer “Harbin.”
“Through this joint exercise, we hope to learn the French navy’s combat training experience and combat thought,” Ju was quoted as saying.
***
Some ally. And no snickering about that “French combat thought” line.
One aspect of the China/north Korea issue that most people don’t seem to be aware of is that the area of China from the north Korean border to the Russian border is filled with ethnic Koreans. Beijing props up north Korea in part because as things stand their ethnic Korean population looks across the border and sees the Korea of Kim Chong-il and wants nothing to do with it. If the north and south are reunited, and the prosperity and freedom of the south are what the ethnic Koreans see instead, what’s to stop them from deciding that they’d also like to reunify? The border area is already an autonomous zone for ethnic Koreans (the Yanbian autonomous region); it’s in Beijing’s interest to keep north Korea as it is no matter what the international situation is (read, what it means to the U.S.), because they’ve always placed internal issues over international ones. Even when the Japanese were invading, the Communists and the Kuomintang did not stop fighting each other. While both hated the Japanese invader, both knew the true long term threat was the internal issue. (And they were right.)
This is a very informative thread; such as everyone once thought the blogosphere would exclusively consist of.
Mr. Frank Martin made some especially good points, but I don’t think that China’s prosperity will necessarily lead to greater democratization. The rulers of China may have solved the tyrant’s dilemma: how to keep people wealthy and happy and paying taxes, while keeping a firm grip on power. The Chinese’ historical and well-founded fear of political chaos probably helps them consider the government as “one of us”, not to be tossed off lightly. That, and no previous positive experience with human rights.
Careful Who You Sleep With
Might catch some horrible diseaselike dhimmitude. To wit, from sisu, we get this story from Robert Spencer of Dhimmi Watch. Quoting:As I have pointed out in the past, it is ironic that leftists are marching under the banner of “No Blood for Oil” …