The White House’s “We the People” petition feature on its website has drawn numerous post-election requests for secession from the union.
“Peacefully grant the State of georgia to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government,” is the title of one petition, continued by, “just like in 1860 the south secede from the union. 2012 the state of georgia would like to withdraw from the USA.”
Georgia went 53.4 percent for Mitt Romney last Tuesday and 45.4 percent for President Obama.
It’s listed in the categories “Civil Rights and Liberties, Government Reform, Human Rights” and so far has more than 4,000 signatures.
Passing the 25,000 signature threshold triggers a response from White House staff.
There are also petitions for the secession of Arkansas, South Carolina, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, New York, Colorado, Oregon, New Jersey, North Dakota, Montana, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Florida, Louisiana, and more.
The closest to 25,000 signatures is the secession petition for Texas, which is nearing 19,000.
“Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government,” states the Nov. 9 petition. “The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government’s neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it’s citizens’ standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.”
People should be patient. Evils long sufferable and all.
On the other hand, if those desirous of Liberty wait twenty years it will be over. So, what I think what perhaps needs to be done is what the Left does–strikes, sit-downs, protests–just absolute refusing to budge. This is also what the Founding Generation did, so don’t worry about the leftist taint (but don’t tear down poor Thomas Hutchinson’s house–leave the mob violence to the side that engages in it). The left does not have enough strength to keep 45% of the country in line if that portion does not desire to be kept in line and is not clearly in the legal wrong. Act upon that basic fact.
This is a struggle for the soul of the nation. Start acting like it. The fight has to move beyond politics, and beyond politeness.
By “clearly in a legal wrong”, I really mean in a way that allows them of the other side to make legitimate claims of treason or to request outside assistance in suppressing insurrection–which groundwork has already perhaps been laid.
My above answer is not what I consider the best–I’m still trying to figure it out. But you must be willing to move your opposition outside the Republican Party, and outside elections. The media and academia never intend to allow a fair shot at those again, as this election last should show.
I would also say that you must understand that if it comes to secession you would now be trying to convince your fellow non-conservative citizens to rebel with you, or, at the very least, not fight you if you do. That means you must not push too far on demands, do not fight to impose values–but instead are fighting for that the right to live by your own and not the Left’s, and for the right of fair hearing. The secession of a complete state is thus too much to expect, except in a very few cases–instead, it would have to be a 1947- style partition.
That would be if we fail. ButI think by making it clear that government will have limits (especiall the central government) and that it will abide by those limits–or else–then we will moderate things successfully. But we must be willing to put deed into thought. For I have no doubts many of the Left will not mind a little blood. There is hate there, no doubt.
Thus, firmness, but patience. Resolute determination.
Libertatem Resurgit.
California does NOT wish to secede! WE ARE LOYAL! BTW, please send $100b soonest. Thx.
We all know California is the land of the fruits & nuts…..and you just keep proving it. No one is sending you $100 fruitcake. Go jump in the ocean.
I’m good with this approach – would be happier if the state legislatures were involved as it would get more attention. Even if unsuccessful, at the very least it would start to reinvigorate the idea of states retaining at least some powers.
Imagine the $hit$torm reaction if a majority of the states took this path?
Still, as things go, for those who argue about the South seceding before – this provides the option of a peaceful path rather than resorting to violence. It’s pretty clear that the country is vividly divided with little gray area between the two factions. Beyond that, there is no single social issue to argue over – slavery is as dead as Lincoln.
So, but what argument should a state and it’s population be forced to remain a part of a country that they no longer feel a connection to?
It’s clear that the two factions can’t stay under the same roof without things spiraling downward in a bad way unless something changes.
So let’s look at some numbers…
The total population of the area that came to be the Confederate States, in 1860, was 12,754,960 people (including both slaves and free).
The total population of the area that remained with the United States was 22,342,231 people.
This is a total of 35,097,191 people.
Total military casualties were 360,000 for the Union, and 258,000 for the Confederate States.
If you crunch through the numbers, and take the position that all were still ‘US’ casualties and it is classified as a ‘civil war’ rather than a ‘war of northern aggression’, then you come up with a death rate of 618,000 military casualities.
This does not include civilian deaths in the South, which were substantial to the extent that no one really can give a good number.
But let’s stick with just the military casualties.
If the civil war were to be re-fought today, with similar casualty rates, you would be talking somewhere around 5.5 million (yes, that’s million with an “M”) military deaths alone stretching across both sides – with some unquantifiable number of civilian deaths that would also likely reach into the millions.
In light of that figure, I’d say the whole peaceful petition approach is worth a shot if things continue down the path they are progressing.
“slavery is as dead as Lincoln.”
Chattel slavery, yes.
Point taken – and I too have certain negative sentiments regarding slavery to a socialist state….
My preference is that my children enjoy more freedom than we have at the moment.
I would go along with secession if I thought it would mean a return to the “rule of law, not of men”. However we lack a few things to make it successful.
a.no true conservative to articulate the message, educate the masses, and lead the effort.
The current crop of republican “leaders” (with a few exceptions) have failed miserably in this.
b. no particular sense of allegiance or patriotism to the state in which you were born or chose to live. Think about what all those entitlement checks have stamped on them. Is it The Great State of (fill in the blank) or The U.S. Treasury?
c. enough MEN with the guts to do it. Face it, we are a dumbed down, feminized, dependent society now.
May God save the republic!
“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.”
I’d suggest this very prudence is why you don’t have pitchforks and torches storming 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue right now. However, having quoted that:
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
I can see this as having transpired as well.
The democrats and Obama want to fundamentally transform the United States into a socialist country, and force it down that path whether they have a clear majority backing them or not.
Given how many millions of people socialism has murdered over the past century, it’s reasonable for a prudent people to seek new safeguards for the security of their communities – and by extension their states – in the face of such efforts to depose our current government for yet another attempt at a socialist utopia.
Now, take a look at those numbers I threw out just above your post. Consider that a lot of us have families we love and are honor bound to try our best to take care of and keep safe – which would be extremely difficult to do if a civil war broke out once more.
Now look at that 5.5 million estimated casualty figure again.
5.5 Million.
While a lot of us aren’t happy, and while a lot of us are already prepping for the worst and hoping for the best, most of us still don’t want that powder keg going off and would prefer a peaceable solution.
Those petitions are actually just documents set up by individuals, not states, even though it may reflect the popular will of those states. Something like this, for it to really carry weight, has to come from the state governments.
The powers not delegated to the federal government were reserved to the states and to the people, respectively. The states have the better of the argument regarding the state right of secession, since they reflect the popular will of all of the citizens of that state.
On the other hand, if worst does come to worst, and the states do try to leave and the state governments do support that effort, and if such a move were opposed with force by the federal government, I suspect the ferocity with which a more violent solution would be pursued, in the full knowledge of how things turned out last time, would make anything during the period of 1861-1865 look mild in comparison.
There is also the question of whether or not the standing military would go along with suppressing a secession movement – would the military support the government, or would it do as the Soviet military did in August of 1991 and respect the will of the people?
If the military intervened against states seceding, then there would definitely be blood. If not, then things transpire in a far more peaceful fashion.
General Grant observed that, had the US had a large standing army in 1861, then that army may have actually sided with the South in that argument.
Also, keep in mind that when the USSR imploded, 1991 was just the final year of a process that had started at least three years earlier.
Perhaps 2012 is just the start of a multi-year process of shutting things down…
I am in shock to see how can people sign a petition like this.Many man die fighting to make this country what it is.This country have problems,we are going through hardships but becoming apart is not the solution.
What is going to happen when a disaster(like natural disaster or terrorist attack because it does not matter if you are part of the United State or not,if you dont beleive what the terrorist beleive you are against them) happen in Texas and because they are not longer part of the United States they can not get help?Oh,wait is not enough help for everybody but at least is something.
Do people remember the depression of 1930?Our financial hardship are not near as bad as they were during those times,and they never say lets divide and conquer because thats is kind of what its sound like.
Grow up people and stop asking the President or our government to solve your problems because there is so much they can do.
Yes, the depression is fast approaching, and you people let it happen. Sit and wait, that’ll help. Just ask the folks in Jersey, cold, no power or supplies…
Divide & conquer? This is exactly what Obama had planned….tear this country apart. From the inside out. My opinion, it’s not the American’s that decided to vote him in…..it’s all the people we let into this Country. This is not a Socialist Country….this is the United States of America. One Nation UNDER GOD. We want it back….Read your BIBLE…….our history & future is there. We will take our Country Back and make it what God intended it to be. A Free Nation with God as our inspiration.