America Deserves Answers on the Obama Administration’s Decision to Outsource the Next Generation of Light Attack Aircraft
Kansas-based Hawker Beechcraft is going to court to get some answers from the US Air Force concerning its decision to disqualify Hawker’s AT-6 from competition to produce a new light attack aircraft for the US and allied militaries. The court case comes on the heels of the Government Accounting Office’s decision not to review the Air Force’s disqualification of Hawker Beechcraft. Until the Air Force abruptly announced the disqualification in November, the AT-6 was considered by many to be the frontrunner in the Air Force’s Light Air Support program. The USAF so far has not explained its decision, which leaves just one competitor in the field, Embraer and its Super Tucano. That competitor carries significant and possibly disqualifying baggage in the form of connections to the Iranian government, and a new bribery investigation. Embraer is not only controlled by the Brazilian government, it is currently under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission for possible violation of the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. That Act prohibits companies from bribing foreign officials or making other illegal payments to gain or retain business.
That investigation began in November 2011, and appears to still be in the early stages. Embraer is accused of engaging in bribery in three countries, none of which have been identified publicly. If found guilty, the company could be banned from doing any business with the US government at all. The SEC’s investigation of Embraer went public about three weeks before the Air Force disqualified Hawker Beechcraft without explanation.
Additionally, while outsourcing the contract to Embraer would create just 50 jobs in the United States, Hawker Beechcraft says the AT-6 would create about 1,400 jobs at 181 companies across 39 states. It would also keep the manufacturing and parts and supply chains all within the United States. Awarding the contract to Embraer puts most of the platform’s ecosystem outside the US. The AT-6, meanwhile, is built on the proven T-6 platform, which is currently in use by the USAF and other allied air forces. More than 700 T-6 aircraft have been built to date, and Hawker Beechcraft has built more than 14,000 aircraft for the US military overall.
““It is simply wrong for the Obama Administration to hire a Brazilian company to handle national security when we have a qualified and competent American company that can do the job,” Congressman Huelskamp said.”
Par for the course with this regime. See also, Brazil’s state owned oil company getting to drill in the Gulf of Mexico while limiting US oil companies being severely limited.
I do not understand why we cannot stop these things. Everyone we elect rolls over for the crap Obama puts out.
.well, it didn’t actually start with him..(remember those army berets we were going to have made in china?) he has merely intensified it 10 fold..and no one steps in to stop any of this.
We are allowing Obama to give our jobs away.
Huelskamp is right and I hope this is made very public in every possible way. America needs to know what Obama ,and his adminisration , are doing to us.
If we stopped the average person on the streets..they would know more about America Idol and the Bachelor than what our goverment is up to, and how they are destroying jobs. ..
Obama seems to have a love affair going with Brazil, and we need to stop it. The people we elect to Washington are letting us down, as usual, and only we can stop it.
All it will take to change this is for the Repub nominee to say during the campaign and during the debates with Obama “If elected, I hereby pledge to immediately disqualify any foreign company from this project and only have American companies qualify for this. Further, I demand an explanation from Prez Obama and will have an investigation into how this debacle happened!” Cheers from the crowd and an immediate 5 point bump in the polls.
All the Repub candidates should be saying this now, actually. Whoever starts saying this would get a bump in the polls.
Not one of the candidates has the balls to do that..
Okay, Newt does..but he won’t.
I would love to hear them take a stand for something concrete and ask quesitons..and DEMAND answers…again, it won’t happen and that is discouraging ,to say the least.
except Hawker/Beech is a foreign owned (though assembly facilities are in the UK) company.
Hawker, the owners, are British, Beech is part Canadian.
“All it will take to change this is for the Repub nominee to say during the campaign and during the debates with Obama “If elected, I hereby pledge to immediately disqualify any foreign company from this project and only have American companies qualify for this”
Or simply put, we have to abandon free-market principles to save our free-market system, right?
We don’t need protectionism and crony capitalism to save us from war profiteers. I strongly disagree with this premiss.
Note: we lock them out, they lock us out and then the WTO fines our exports. Our companies would lose a shitload of money and foreign contracts if we did this…
Actually I probably should have written: We don’t need protectionism and crony capitalism to make our War Profiteers even richer. I strongly disagree with this premiss.
This began under Bush well Clinton as well. But during the Bush years about 2005 or 2006 Rep. Duncan Hunter put forth a bill that would have REQUIRED at least 65 percent of military hardware and supplies be manufactured in the US or by US companies. Dick Cheney called him and said the president.. BUSH would veto any such bill and of course it was defeated. The various trade agreements we have with Brazil and other nations are a BIG part of the problem. The so called DREAMLINER by Boeing was cobbled together by SIX different trading partners with differing quality control and engineering standards making a NIGHTMARE in construction and producing it. As long as we have ideological NITWITS who put THEIR version of ‘free trade’ and adoration of TRADING partners before the best interests of the US .. we are screwed!!. We also use TRADE agreements to BUY friends, these pieces of crap are sometimes written by diplomats who are more into buying friends than making us better off. As LONG as they use TRADE to buy friends or to advance a WARPED view of how trade should work……. I guarantee you we will continue to decline and it will and DOES impact national security. Our leaders are insane … free trade theory is just that a theory and does not cure all the ILLS OF MANKIND .. a little common sense and remembering which COUNTRY we live in and want to survive would be in order.
Brazil oil drilling = Soros
Embraer = Iran
Obama loves them both. Especially the Nazi, Soros. He is the puppet-master pulling Obama’s strings.
Besides, Embraer bribes. Obama and Company loves them some bribes.
Exactly!
Follow the money; who knows – maybe Soros has his paws in this as well, or he has recently invested in stock benefitting this brazilian company. Nothing what Obama does is by chance!
Let’s see –
American company with mostly white work force with all aspects of operations located INSIDE Imperialist USA…bad.
American company with long history of connections to patriotic aspects of US…bad.
Company is major part of civilian industry helping to keep Americans off of trains and producing carbon in America…bad.
All financial benefits from operations to go to investors who do not support Barack Obama…really bad.
Solution?
Brown-skinned Latin country with a socialist-leaning government…check.
Corporation in said Latin country with all aspects of operation to ONLY benefit brown-skinned people and all financial connections to Soros and Liberal bankers…check.
Helping to forge dependence for more an more aspects of our whole country on Socialist countries(Socialist weapons, Socialist and Muslim oil, Spanish trains, Bolivian hybrid-car batteries, Chinese products and money) and more global control of America while leaving white people broke begging for lives…check.
Solution – move Heaven and Earth to procure contracts for Brazil.
Result-”redistributive justice” on a global scale.
Amen, brother. Could not have put it better myself.
Why not? Obama loves Brazil and helped send drilling platforms down there from the gulf – He also sent Brazil lots of money to develop their oil fields.
We don’t need the work anyway and Obama has a stash.
We are much better off on welfare anyway – Ask the Obama associates
Every day brings a new Obomination.
Is it too early to start a countdown clock? XXX days until the election. XXX days until the end of Obama’s first (and hopefully ONLY) term.
For a Citizen of the World spreading the wealth doesn’t just mean within the USA – Barry the neo-Marxist idealogue acts globally.
And rhetoric is all Obama speaks – it’s the actions he takes that consistently demonstrate his commitment to cutting America down to size.
I so agree–
Of course you’re correct in saying that Obama wants to spread the wealth around the world. The U.N. totally supports his position as we see the financial underpinnings of our world order starting to crumble. If he wins another term, which is entirely possible if Holder’s DOJ make voter ID illegal so that the world can vote in our elections, we will be on the train to serfdom. Bullet train.
The problem I see is that you can NOT fight the Obamanations of this administration just by saying “NO”. You have to have policies that are easily understood by the productive portion of society so they can vote FOR something. A real opposition position. Something to fight about. Like ‘equality under the law’ has a nice ring! When wage slaves get their W-2′s and contrators take their 1099-MISC, it would be nice for a politicians to say that government handouts get their 1099-GOV reporting.
1099-GOV 1099-GOV 1099-GOV
I’d like to see online publication of all government handouts BY RECIPIENT published online. I’d exempt military salaries and benefits (for obvious reasons), nor should it include a breakdown of Social Security payment by individual recipient (because Americans cannot opt out of SS). But every other disbursement of dollars or goods from the government teat should appear online.
http://1389blog.com/2011/12/29/obama-debt-man-walking/
From a life cycle cost analysis viewpoint, there is no way that the training costs for the Tucano will ever be lower than the T-6 derivative, nor would I think the sustainment costs. This is because the pilots who will fly the AT-6 will learn how to fly on the trainer version, and assuredly the training curriculum will thus be able to be shorter. Likewise, the same “type command/program office” will be able to deal with the logistics of the two planes at a lower life cycle cost than would be the case with two different planes. Therefore, the only reasons to go foreign are a superior product overall, foreign policy considerations, or problems with manufacturer responsiveness. Those may be at play here, and might be valid criterion, but they are going to have to be explained.
Long term, though, the United States AirForce needs to understand it needs to support the industrial base of the United States when able, not allies.
Yep. I think that’s the main reasoning from the Air Force – the Super Tocano is clearly a superior aircraft when it comes to capability. The AT-6 would almost certainly be cheaper all around though. But the Tocano is purpose built for this role, rather than an adaptation. And it’s already proven itself with other air forces.
I frankly could care less where the product comes from as long as it’s the best product for our military. My own opinion is that the Tocano is clearly the better choice. And I’m a bit concerned that Hawker Beechcraft is just trying to play on public opinion here. That same tactic worked with the next-gen tanker contract: the Airbus was superior to the Boeing in every measurable category, and won initially. But a campaign by Boeing playing on peoples emotions eventually reversed it.
Oil for Brazil, and now planes for Brazil.
If the Teleprompter in Chief likes Brazil so much, why doesn’t he just move there? Tomorrow won’t be soon enough.
PS:
If the AT-6 trainer were solar-powered, would Obama then fund the damned thing?
He will. Preferably in late January 2013.
Follow the money. It won’t be “Brazil” that benefits, but a few people with names.
EXACTLY!!! Look to see who, if any, has invested in Embraer. Or which democratic campaign bundler has been hired by the company in the past. There is something very fishy about this.
Soros and Petrobras come to mind.
Hawker-Beechcraft has obviously failed to promise enough kickback…errr…campaign contributions to The Won.
Your attention is invited to this graphic.
http://conservative-outlooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Tucano-v-Beechcraft-chart.JPG
Beechcraft has a lot of ‘splaining of its own…
And 9 out of 10 dentists agree that Crest is better than Colgate. Are you really so stupid that you would post an obvious bit of advertising? That is a rhetorical question.
I have no idea why the decision was made. However, to offset the corruption allegations, there is this consideration. The first customer for the AT-6 will be the United States. The plane has no prior history. On the other hand, the Super Tucano is in service with several Air Forces, and has a combat record already. How heavily this weighed in the decision, I don’t know. However, I find it more than a little suspicious that the article was all one-sided, and made no mention of these facts.
The AT-6 would be an evolution of the T-6, which has been in the US fleet for years. So it and its manufacturer have a history with our own military that Embraer and its plane do not have.
How did we outsource that to Brazil? With apologies to Lou Reed…
I met him in Rio in a Bodega,
Where the umbrella drinks
Are bigger than an old Chevy Vega,
L.U.L.A. Loooo-la…
He said that going left
Was the right way to go,
Not Argentine Style, or Old Mexico,
But like Looo-la, L.U.L.A. Looola…
Then I looked at he,
And he at me,
And I outsourced to him
The brand new AT…
And that is the way
That I want it to stay,
for my Loola, L.U.L.A. Loola…
‘Cuz for Latin leftists
I’m wholly gay,
And willing to ignore
The FCPA, for my
Looola, L.U.L.A. Looo-la…
He may be outbound
But I’ll never forget,
The OAS meeting
Where we first met,
Oh my Looola, L.U.L.A. Looooo-la……
Lou Reed??
Try Ray Davies and the Kinks. If you’re really frisky, try Weird Al’s version known as “Yoda”.
That’s correct Valerie, it’s all about graft and kickbacks, losing American jobs and damaging an American company is just a bonus for President Hussein.
Give me an American made A-10 any day over either of those two.
It isn’t intended to replace the ‘Hog. It’s a light attack aircraft, not a rip-snorting tank-killing death machine. Light attack aircraft have their uses in guerilla warfare and counter-insurgency operations. Sometimes, you don’t need to use a sledgehammer when a tack hammer will do. While I wish it wasn’t so, the A-10 has been out of production for over 20 years. It has been upgraded to the A-10C version but the factor that built the A-10s no longer exists.
A sledgehammer is more fun.
Well, didn’t President Big Talker tell the Brazilians that we’d be their best customer? He neglected to add, however, that we’ll only be their best customer until we can’t afford to buy anything anymore.
Well, given that the Super Tucano lost out to the T-6 in the original trainer competition (Brazil adapted it for the light attack role after it lost and to recoup the development money they’d spent); you have to wonder just what’s going on behind the scenes. The T-6 was evaluated with external stores right from the beginning (I was there at the time) and HBC has worked closely with the USAF to demonstrate full stores compatibility. Additionally, the Pilatus PC-9 that the T-6/AT-6 is derived from has demonstrated considerable stores capability in its own right.
You have to wonder if this is a quid pro quo so that the Brazilians will buy F/A-18s as their new fighters instead of Rafales or some other fighter. Personally, I’d rather see HBC get the contract because losing this business has the potential to see HBC sold to a foreign investor in the PRC and I’d much rather see the profits and jobs stay in this country.
Evan:
If the Super Tucano is quid pro quo for a Brazilian F-18 procurement then I have to say it is the correct decision to make. We pay a billion to Brazil to get multi-billions back. We did this with NATO when we gave up the M1911 for Beretta M-9. We paid Beretta millions while NATO countries paid billions for US fighter aircraft. NATO also adopted the US 5.56 (223 Remington) as the standard NATO rifle round.
Personally, I would have prefered that we purchased the FN or HK assault rifle chambered in 308 instead and let the Eureopeans purchase a 45 ACP chambered sidearm instead of the other way around.
If, and ONLY if, it is a quid pro quo, I could accept it. Until evidence of that surfaces, this engineer will have to suspect malific intent within the administration. I know too much aircraft industry history to believe, let alone trust, in good intentions (cf. the cancellation of Northrop’s original Flying wing bomber or the organized effort within the Canadian government to kill the first jetliner to fly in North America – the Avro Canada C-102 which flew just a couple weeks after the first flight of the DeHavilland Comet).
Not to mention the sad affair with the Avro Arrow (CF-105), Evan.
Yes, some strange things go on in the defense industry. I’m not even sure a tit for tat arrangement would be acceptable in this case, particularly at this juncture of current events. Brazil has taken a turn to outright communism of late and if that isn’t a signal to stop dealing with them in matters of national security, I don’t know what is!
I can tell you of my experience with the Canadian navy back in the 80′s when the vacuum tubes needed for gun ranging function had to be purchased from Russia, the only supplier of these tubes! It was not a pretty or welcome situation to be in!
I can see the same kind of situation developing with these planes.
With all the talk of outsourcing being the downfall of American manufacturing, how can anyone in their right mind support this deal?
The EMB-312 Tucano lost to the T-6. The EMB-314 Super Tucano is an entirely different airplane.
Disclaimer: I am a former HBC employee.
First, I would be interested in just who supplied that comparison chart. LongTabSigO, do you know?
Second, to say that it is a new, to-be-developed model ignores the experience of the Air Force, Navy, and various foreign Air Forces with the airframe, which is currently used for trainers.
Did the Machinists piss off Obama somehow? It is a union shop, after all.
Obama is not pro-Union. Who do you think are the “bitter clingers?” He is pro-public sector where the so-called unions are the functional equivalent of the Communist and Nazi trade unions.
“Obama is not pro-Union . . . He is pro-public sector . . . ”
The boundaries have become indistinct since BHO turned the UAW into a public-sector union.
You have to wonder about the union angle. Maybe The Won didn’t know it was a union shop.
Frankly, I don’t know why we don’t just keep the A10 Warthog. Even if we have to start making them again. Add some new high tech stuff and you’ve got a better best close support combat plane that was ever built.
This aircraft is not replacing the A-10. It is a light aircraft designed for counter-insurgency operations.
…and it’s not for the USAF but the Afghan Air Force.
All you need to understand is that the A-6/T-6 is made in 39 different states to see that whichever plane wins is largely irrelevant. The problem is the acquisition system maximizes corruption and congressional patronage.
Worry about the corruption, not which pathetic trainer retrofit is supposedly going to replace the Fairchild A-10.
It isn’t intended to replace the A-10 (the F-35 is but that’s a different discussion). The A-10 is a wonderful plane – tough, heavily armed and deadly to the enemy. However, it isn’t the right tool for every job. Light attack aircraft can be better suited for counter-insurgency warfare with long loiter time, lower operating costs, a better sensor suite and weapons better suited to the mission.
Surprise that Brazil would surface again after the oil drilling deal. Remember that one traced to George Soros. Agree – follow the money – who will benefit if work goes to Brazil?
Er, not just the USAF, the T-6 is the JPATs (joint primary aircraft training system). ZOMG, while I flew this AC, it took me 2 seconds on the internet machine to come up with this link on the (hard to find) Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Primary_Aircraft_Training_System
There sure is a lot of WWII P-51D karma in the wing and tail structure of the AT-6.
It is a wonder we ever produce successful airplanes since most of the design and production decisionmaking is about how to farm it out to every Congressional district in the Country to try to get CongressCritters to support it. I thing that sub-assemblies of the A-10 were being made in all but two districts. And though it is a very good flying anti-tank weapon, the US kept buying them until new A-10s were going to ANG units that would never cross the county line not to speak of try to plug the Fulda Gap. Congress just couldn’t give up the revenue stream into their district.
Actually, the Texan II has a lot of Pilatus PC-9 in it’s wing and tail structure. The prototypes were PC-9s from the firewall aft and the lines, from the firewall aft are still those of the PC-9, though the structure’s been redone for US JPATS requirements (mainly birdstrike, IIRC) and the aircraft is all new from the firewall forward.
Regarding the A-10, we obviously didn’t build enough of them considering how long it will be in service. This engineer would love to see a more thorough updating than what was done to produce the A-10C but I suspect that would take some serious need for engine upgrades and the like. I still think it a shame we didn’t buy an adequate production quantity of the two-seat A-10B which could put the second set of eyes to excellent use in many ways.
No wonder Brasil is doing so well: headline:
“(AFP) – Brazil has overtaken Britain as the world’s sixth largest economy, a London-based research group said Monday.”
Kansas is also a Red state, votes republican. Payback from ole Jug Ears similar to way he treats Oklahoma and Texas.
Let me agree with Bill Klaver, and add that the Beechcraft workers certainly are not government employees, maybe not even unionized, and therefore do not figure in Obama’s re-election calculations.
The article and comments hit on several ways our military procurement system is completely broken.
1. A loser in a relatively tiny program is suing the Air Force. Shut up – you lost.
2. The Air Force is getting second guessed for not “creating American jobs”. Who cares? Can we just get the best gear at the best price?
3. The DOD procurement system has been so politicized and corrupted, everyone assumes that campaign donations and backroom deals decided this deal. Time to clean up their act.
Beretta. That’s a nice base in Naples it would be a shame if something happened to it.
Your point 1 doesn’t seem correct. According to this story, they didn’t lose the competition, they were disqualified from it, for reasons that have not been sufficiently explained, after having been considered the front-runner. That’s unusual, isn’t it?
You hit on something important. HBC was disqualified because their plane did not meet the basic requirements specified in the RFP- that it be a working COIN aircraft. Wherever it is being built, the Tucano is a proven COIN aircraft in Columbia and other places as is, while the AT-6 requires modification and testing before it can even compete. We need this plane right now in Afghanistan. I have a fondness for the original T-6; my dad instructed in it and I have some time in it too, but i’m much more interested in getting the best bang for the buck in defence spending. Here’s a site with more info by my friend Ed Timperlake, USNA ’69. He is a fighter pilot and former Asst Sec of Vet’s Affairs.
http://www.sldforum.com/2011/12/congratulations-all-around-the-super-tucano-has-won-the-las-competition/
FOLLOW THE MONEY. See which Congressmen and Senators profited and you understand why this contract went the way it did. Just saying.
So you’re referring to Alan West and Ander Crenshaw?
Maybe it had something to do with the book “What’s The Matter With Kansas?” and the fact that, according to the book, those folks apparently suffer from false consciousness, as demonstrated by their living in a red state and voting for republicans? See? They needed to be spanked for the error of their ways. If they had voted for Obama I’m sure the contract would have gone to Beechcraft. Maybe Beechcraft should consider relocating to hyper-expensive Silicon Valley–military products don’t have to be market efficient like photo cells– or move to even cheaper Death Valley?
Good news: The Super Tucano built by Embraer is solar and/or wind powered, which (whew) means it’s EPA approved.
Bad news: It uses the same battery as the Chevy Volt.
Really bad news: The USAF will be flying an aircraft named after the Toucan. Really?
Weirder news: Is it true the Tucano is an adaptation of a plane also used by the … wait for it … air forces of Kenya and Kuwait?
Visiting Chicago for New Years. The Coast Guard boats patrolling the river have two Honda outboards on the back and a Belgian made M-60 on the bow. Next thing you know, our military vehicles will be imported. I mean, right now, our soldiers’ cell phones are mostly likely made in China. Seeing that none of our great patriot industrialists are willing to make one penny less profit to employ our people, it’s no surprise.
When you bring this issue up to politicians or other citizens, they look at you like you have two heads. Of course we should build all our own goodies! Ask yourself a question, is the computer you’re reading this on built by the “Chi-Coms?” Yeah, that’s what I thought.
The reason is simple. The Beechcraft aircraft is a far inferior one to the Super Tucano. Beechcraft did not understand the target market for the aircraft and included a variety of features that would have made it unuseable for its intended purpose.
I sat in on a briefing from their team a few years back when they were trying to push this aircraft. It was clear from the very begining that they did not understand anything about what a COIN platform needed to be.
For those outside industry, the Super Tucano is the premier turbo-prop COIN aircraft in existance today. It is robust, proven and has a very long combat record in its various incarnations.
None of these things can be said of the Beechcraft.
HBC submitted a technically flawed proposal that guaranteed that they wouldn’t win the contract. And then they compounded the problem by waiting too long to protest the award decision. That was an incredibly bone-headed blunder on their part, and it speaks to an incompetent company. Read the GAO dismissal of the protest – the stupidest garage-based company wouldn’t have completely blown any chance of protesting the award decision. We are going to be much better off with HBC out of this business.
Are you people kidding me?
If I wanted to hear economic nonsense, I could go to Democratic Underground or Huffington Post or somewhere. What’s the point of being conservative if you aren’t going to get basic economics right.
OK, imagine that the US government wanted to buy one plane for $5 million, and there are only two companies in the world making a suitable plane, American Beechcraft and Brazilian Embraer.
Some of the people here would wail, “Buy American, buy American” but before their calls could be heard, let’s say Embraer released a public statement saying, “We don’t want $5 million in US dollars. We want $5 million worth of Idaho potatoes. We want the Air Force to buy the potatoes and ship them to us in lieu of cash payment.”
Now the contest is between Beechcraft and some spud farmers in Northwest. Everyone can agree now that there’s no patriotic reason to buy an American plane instead of an American potato, right?
But that is exactly the real situation! Embraer and Brazil as a nation don’t want little green portraits of dead US presidents. They want the goods and services those pieces of papers can buy — either buying them directly from American companies or buying from other countries that sooner or later will need to repatriate that money.
No, the Air Force should NOT be “sustain American industry” or “buying locally” or any of that crap. It should buy the best plane for its needs at the lowest price. It’s called the free market and we all believe in it, right?
The really painful thing about telling you people this is that you SHOULD ALREADY KNOW IT. Adam Smith wrote about 230 years ago. David Ricardo worked out all the math 150 years ago. It’s just not complicated.
Seriously, if you don’t understand this much economics, please, become a liberal. You’ll probably get laid more and you won’t embarrass the rest of us any more.
OK wise guy, what’s your economic solution to counter party risk? By that I mean, what do you do when the sole supplier of your economically rational product–say planes, trains, or silicon chips for computers for the military–becomes not your cooperative counter party in trade, but your enemy? Offer him or her cut rate pork free Happy Meals and Treasuries that pay zip to fund the national debt? Economics is about greed, politics is about power. Seems to me I recall some one, perhaps a non-western type from the far east, pointing out that business is war? Yeah, and diplomacy is just war by other means.
I like your style Don.
I don’t have any knowledge of the merits of the AT-6 vs Embraer but I happen to know this source selection is for 20 light attack aircraft for the Afghanistan Air Force. These are not going into the USAF inventory. I expect the USAF will never want these type of aircraft either. Kind of important points missing from the story. Also, what are the Afghani druthers? Could be they may not want to be beholden to the US for future logistics support. As an Afghani, It’s something I would consider given the experiences of Pakistan, Singapore, and Iran with their US fighter purchases.
I’m also familiar with the Air Force acquisition process. When a company is eliminated EARLY in a source selection it means they missed key requirements or cost more than the Air Force has budgeted. While I don’t know the case here, I suspect Hawker-Beechcraft has a pretty good idea. You see, another critical piece of information missing from this story is Hawker-Beechcraft’s protest to the GAO was denied because they failed to lodge a protest or request a debrief within the time-frame allotted. GAO had no choice but to overrule the protest. Hard for me to believe a company that has done so much business with the Air Force did that by accident. It gives HB the ability to state the Air Force hasn’t told them the reason for their rejection. True enough, but that was HB’s choice. Looks like HB is going for the long shot approach by fighting this in the court of public opinion, knowing the USAF is unable to say anything since the source selection rules prevent them from doing so.
I’m no fan of President Obama, but don’t lay this decision at his feet. As a USAF retiree, it puts a bad taste in my mouth for the integrity of Hawker-Beechcraft.
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRARCHIVE/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArchive/Pages/2011/November%202011/November%2022%202011/LightAirSupportCompetitionProceedsOneBidderLighter.aspx
HBC was disqualified because it didn’t satisfy the requirements of the RFP. The US wanted a proven off-the-shelf COIN aircraft and specified that in the proposal. in their arrogance HBC ignored that and put up a very good primary trainer, that in fact beat the Tocano in that role (US company and all that) but couldn’t begin to compete against an aircraft alread y proven in Central America as a great weapon. I would like to buy American, but with military dollars so short, I want the best and soonest; this is going to Afpac to kick Taliban ass and I’d rather send the Tocano now than screw around on testing and hoping that sometime down the road the AT-6 will work out. My dad flew the original Texan,called the Harvard in Canada/GB during WWII. Great airplane. Ed Timperlake, fighter pilot and former Ass’t Sec’y of Vet’s Affairs, has more to say about this on his site Second Line of Defence:
http://www.sldforum.com/2011/12/congratulations-all-around-the-super-tucano-has-won-the-las-competition/
My thoughts exactly. The Tocano is a proven, purpose built aircraft.
I worry though that this “dey terk er jerrrbs” tactic by Beechcraft will work though. Or at least slow down the process of getting a Tocano program up and running.
See the next-gen tanker contract drama the last couple years. The Airbus was a clearly superior product, and initially won, but this same kind of pandering by Boeing made it so their product was the final victor.
Gent:
Keep in mind the EMB-314 Super Tucano is an entirely different airplane than the EMB-312 Tucano. The latter was designed as a trainer, very much like the T-6. The former is what is referred to as a “clean sheet” design; from the ground up a combat aircraft. S/F.
Remember the Billion + $$ we gave the Brazilians to help them with their latest
oil discovery, and how Obummer hoped we’d become one of their best customers?
Remember how that Nazi whore Soros made out like a bandit on the deal?
Follow the money- I’ll bet if not Soros, then one of Bambis cronies will
stand to make a bundle on the deal.
The bigger question is why do we need a COIN aircraft at all. We’re out of Iraq, drawing down in Afghanistan (would a prop job really be better in the thin air of the Afghan mountains?). In short, if we mind our own damned business, legalize and tax pot, there is no real need for these aircraft (except perhaps to “maintain civil order”).
The solution to foreign insurgents attacking the US is to annihilate the countries that harbor them (and I don’t mean build them shiny new schools).
Why build more air assets when ground observers have to beg for an hour or more under fire to get them approved due to ridiculous rules of engagement (my son is one of those observers by the way)?
Throw another name to investigate into the pot–Alvin Brown, recently-elected Jacksonville, FL mayor, who apparently made very friendly with the Embraer president during his Nov. visit to Brazil. Brown was very connected to the Clinton Administration, as was Soros. Brown had a meeting at the White House upon his return, the deal was announced, the aircraft will be built in Jacksonville, and Brown is actually bragging about the 50 American jobs this will create.
http://jacksonvillenorthestates.firstcoastnews.com/m/news/news/67931-mayor-embraer-build-planes-jia-new-contract?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cbc%7Clarge#bmb=1
“Embraer is accused of engaging in bribery in three countries,…”
Make that “four countries” and I think you’ve found your answer.
The left wing fish wrap you called the “Wichita Eagle” is referred to locally as the “Wichita Giggle” because to call that rag a newspaper is a joke.
We don’t need a COIN aircraft right now, but Afghanistan desperately needs one ASAP to get them ready for when we leave. This won’t be the last conflict in which the needs of a third world country involve mobility and aerial firepower, even tho this and the workhorse A-10 wouldn’t survive a medium threat EAD regime.
There will be an investigation. America does need answers, and I hope the FBI gives us all the facts starting with — frst and foremost the most important –
Why did HBC knowingly enter a prototype not certified for ordnance release aircraft and according to Association of Old Crows also having weight and balance issues with antennas and EW system placement into a “non-developmental” production ready LAS competition-costing money and time for a nation at war?
Was crony capitalism corporate fraud attempted?? Seems the AF fought off attempts to influence them.
Or take the facts from the very obviously non-partisan GAO-
“After reviewing HBDC’s responses to issues raised during discussions, the Air Force concluded that HBDC had not adequately corrected deficiencies in its proposal. In this regard, the agency concluded that “multiple deficiencies and significant weaknesses found in HBDC’s proposal make it technically unacceptable and results in unacceptable mission capability risk.”
http://www.gao.gov/decisions/bidpro/406170.htm
From my articles-
The initial requirement—-BACKGROUND AND REQUIREMENTS: LAS aircraft must be a non-developmental item (NDI) that is production-ready. No development or testing funds are available. ” Introduction of LAS Solicitation FA8615-10-R-6088”
The AT-6 was submitted as a “non-developmental” aircraft, but according to the widely respected Aviation Week and Space Technology that initial action is simply factually wrong. The AT-6 was making news that they were still in development as late as October 20, 2011
“AT-6 Qualifies For Afghan Contract”
http://www.sldforum.com/2011/12/super-tucano-vs-at-6—the-never-ending-story/
Ibf you look closely at the Brazilian company, you will probably find that the owner is the same guy that Obama billions of our money to drill for oil in Brazil. He was a huge donator to Obama.
Even though America has very severe financial problems, every year the administration gives away billions of American dollars for free to other countries. Now our HATE-America government gives away jobs that are desperately needed by Americans.
How much stock does soros own in the Brizialian company?i
This goes back farther than Obama .. back when Bush was president former Rep. Duncan Hunter tried to get a bill passed that would require at least 65 percent of all defense materials to be made in the US by American companies. Dick Cheney called him and said the president .. Bush . would veto any such bill. Of course it didn’t pass. Meantime, military combat fatigues are falling apart because of shoddy material construction..they finally had to bring back the manufacture of the material to the US. The Brazilian ‘deal’ is part of our TRADE AGREEMENTS and associations with South America.. don’t blame Obama blame both parties and the morons who think FREE TRADE at ANY COST is the same as having Jesus Christ here on earth. A lot that Obama and the bureaucrats in procurement do come from those TRADE agreements we signed with NO THOUGHT to its impact on our industry or NATIONAL SECURITY.
anyone here ever work on an embraer or with embraer engineers?
throw away aircraft.
they are cheap for a reason.
good for regional airlines, bad for military.
Nice to see our “conservative” American friends defending so passionately the free market. If it was all written in spanish, I’d think I was readind Hugo Chavez’s blog…
In defense of the conservatives in this group, it’s not like America has a free market anymore…And who knows if this deal was on the up and up or just more of Obama’s crony capitalism and wealth redistribution.
Brazil: yep! a good marxist/leninist country. Is this true? Sure! It’s President is an avowed Marxist. Wrote books, espousing the “marxist mantra.”
Lets, see, President Dilma, in 2011 fired 4 top cabinet ministers for out-and-out corruption…no prosecution, just fired them. 60% of all judges in Brazil are notably corrupt…ask any American businessperson doing business in Brazil.
49,000 homicides just in 2011…not a one was solved. 58,000 highway accidents, just in 2011, no end in sight to this slaughter. A massive drug epidemic in every municipality (no drug testing of employees, either). Sao Paulo city center is called “cracolandia” or crackland.
And Mr. Obama’s administration is entrusting America’s military secrets to Brazilian officialdom? A corrupt society from top to bottom? HAH! Good luck.
Did you know Al-Queada has established throughout all of Brazil, small pockets of terrorists, complete networks? They regularly ship armaments to Palestinian sympathizers overseas.
And America’s military secrets are secure with Brazil? HAH! Embraer is a Brazilian government entity…fraught with commie/socialist’s.
And America’s military secrets are secure with Brazil? HAH!
This has to be this administration’s gift to Al-Queada and the upcoming Arabian Spring. Muslim Brotherhood wins again.
Vote massively for massive fraud is all around us. This contract has to be rescinded immediately. God Bless America! Re-Bid the contract, now! Amen!
Most ANTI American…if the ONLY anti-American President of all time!! His snotty arrogance will not be missed when he is voted OUT next November….
Holy Jesus! Never forget to take your medicine before posting a comment. Don’t let people know how deranged you are!
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mail-mix-up-makes-hawker-beechcraft-miss-protest-deadline-for-usaf-contract-appeal-filed-in-federal-court-366386/
two issues, the aircraft doesn’t meet the spec for the specified details in the program, hawker beech didn’t respond in time to the air force team that determined that, no politics here, the Tucano is an aircraft already used for this role. while I would prefer hawker beech get to produce this great Swiss design, the aircraft is a trainer not a bomber which is what the air force is looking for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-6_Texan_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super_Tucano
Most of the people on this post are the reason why America is in so much trouble. If the people you voted into office are doing the same type of crap, you have nothing to say. But if the people in office are not who you voted for or agree with they are destroying America and should be hung. Instead of putting forth a meaningful agruement about outsourcing of US jobs, you look for any reason to make the issue about Obama. Really, that’s the best you have.
Hawker Beechcraft by the way is owned by a Canadan company if you bothered to look.
If you think Bush was a great president you may want to raise your standards. But he was president and did what he did. Did not hear all the crying about the doubling of the deficit under Bush from all you conservatives at the time.
Now Obama is bankrupting the country. Really? Shows very little thought or balls to blame someone for the mess we all got yourself in. Hold accountable equally all those you elect to your high standards at all times. Not just when you want to see the other guy kicked out of office. Then you may earn some respect from people who do not alway agree with you.