Breaking story, video at the link:
An explosion in Oslo explosion today has blown out most of the windows of the government building housing the Norwegian prime minister’s office, according to a witness, Reuters reports.
The news agency says several people have been injured.
And
At least two people reported killed in an explosion at a government building in central Oslo. Police say the blast was the result of a bomb.
Norway has been involved in the operation in Libya, and is planning an exit in August.
I don’t know if this is connected to the bombing, but Gaddafi has threatened to strike Europe to retaliate for the NATO operation to…do whatever it is the NATO operation is doing in Libya.
Flashback: Al Qaeda operatives were caught in a plot to strike Norway in August, 2010.
Update: Norway’s prime minister is safe, but there are people trapped in the bomb debris.
Update: There is a report that a man disguised as a police officer opened fire near where the PM was attending a conference.
A man disguised as a police officer began shooting where prime minister Jens Stoltenberg was attending a Labour party conference at Utoya, Stoltenberg has just confirmed.
He said there is a ‘critical and serious situation’ where he is (but he is safe).
He was speaking on the phone to Norwegian TV station TV2.
Update: ABC is reporting that there were two explosions, one the result of a car bomb.
At least one of two explosions that rocked a Norwegian government building in Oslo today was result of a massive vehicle bomb, according to U.S. government sources on the scene.
The tangled wreckage of a vehicle was seen near the Norwegian government building that was targeted in the blast, officials said. It was not clear if the car was a bomb vehicle or near the site of a blast. At least one explosion was the result of a massive vehicle bomb, U.S. government sources said.
Update: Clarice Feldman blogs on reports that kids’ summer camps have come under attack too.
Update: The BBC is running live commentary and reports online, here.
Update: Zombie reports on the first hints that the Norway attacks have Islamist roots.
Update: The BBC is reporting that one man has been arrested for the shootings at the youth camp, which is on the island of Utoya near Oslo. Witnesses say as many as 25 were killed before he was captured trying to swim away from the island. The BBC also reports that he does seem to be connected to the bombings downtown. This sequence of attacks is now being regarded as the first major Islamist attack on Western Europe since the 7/7 attacks on London.
Update: The latest from the AP:
A bomb ripped open buildings in the heart of Norway’s government Friday, and a man dressed as a police officer opened fire at an island youth camp connected to the ruling party. At least seven people were killed in the blast and nine more in the camp shootings, the peaceful nation’s worst violence since World War II.
Oslo police said 9 or 10 people were killed at the camp on Utoya island, where the youth wing of the Labor Party was holding a summer camp for hundreds of youths. Acting Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim says a man was arrested in the shooting, and the suspect had been observed in Oslo before the explosion there.
There are conflicting reports on the man arrested. Some have said he looks “Nordic,” while others have said he is “foreign looking.” Al Qaeda has been recruiting Westerners to carry out attacks over the past few years, so his appearance may not say all that much as to whether this is or isn’t Islamic terrorism.
Update: From the Beeb’s live text feed –
2238:Deputy Oslo police chief Sveining Sponheim tells reporters the man under arrest is 32 and “ethnic Norwegian”.
Bruce Bawer was right (again)…
Well, better luck next time guy. Looks like this mass murderer was a dud, but if we’re lucky someone who does fit our agenda will show up soon and push this guy off the front pages. *fingers crossed*
In a funny twist, this guy was a participant on the same webpage as Bruce Bawer, document.no. They have propably exchanged opinions and agreed. Face it: This was a rightwing anti-islamic extremist. Timothy mcVeigh gone islamophobic. He follows the ideological blueprint of the blogger Fjordman.
But hey, dont let reality hinder you from hating.
Let me point out that we don’t have all of the facts yet (or perhaps any of them).
Just for starters, there hasn’t been a trial yet. Only the trial can establish whether the person arrested (namely Breivik) was the actual shooter (assuming that there was only one shooter, which we still don’t know).
We also don’t know who actually left the comments that were purportedly made by Breivik.
Nor do we know the extent to which the police and the judicial system in Norway are honest. These cases become political footballs. There have certainly been enough problems with that in the US, especially with regard to high-profile crimes and assassinations.
We don’t know whether the Oslo bombing, the youth camp attack, or both, could have been “false flag” operations. Even if they were not, there is always the danger that they could eventually be used as a “Reichstag fire” incident.
Anybody can leave comments on just about any website, forum, or blog that allows comments. They can leave comments under somebody else’s name if they feel like it, and the website owner generally won’t know.
Let me point out something else: A blog, forum, or website is not responsible for the mental health (or lack of it) of its commenters. We don’t know who those people really are. Some commenters are undoubtedly imposters.
At various times, we’ve had some looney tunes commenting on 1389 Blog, which is, of course, a counterjihadist site. As the primary admin, I’m the one who has to cope with it, and some of those comments can be a temptation to the sin of despair. Even though a few of the incoherent commenters seem to have agreed with our viewpoint (at least to the extent that we can figure out what they are talking about), we don’t like getting comments from people who seem to be incoherent or mentally unbalanced. That is partly why we moderate the comments. If we were to accept no comments from anybody at all, that would cut us off from any dialog with our audience, and that would cut down on readership.
Two other important points:
Whoever left the comments under the name of Breivik was not connected with the counterjihad movement to any real extent, simply because he (or they) would know by now never to use Little Green Footballs as a source of information.
Whoever shot up the youth camp wasn’t a Christian, despite what he (or others) might claim. That isn’t something that a Christian would do. Nothing in Christian doctrine allows it.
“We don’t know anything. But either the muslims did it, or the muslims planned it, or it can be used by the muslims against us!”
Seek professional mental health. NOW!
This is called “projection” kristian, and you display this quite well, thanks.
TELL ME SOMETHING, IDIOT, WHO THE HELL IS BRUCE BAWER??
Bruce Bawer was (and maybe still is) an interesting literary critic, who felt compelled to end his association with The New Criterion because of what he considered the journal’s homophobia. When he began his current anti-Islamic jihad, I don’t know.
I’m sure the Norwegians (or at least their media/government/Lutheran Church elites) will find a way to blame this on Israel and the Jews.
Eric R. you would rather express self-pity for your race than condolence with the parents of innocent Norwegian children. I think that tells us all we need to know about you.
Mr. Stanley:
How sorry were the Norwegian leftist parents of these children to the Jewish children in Israel murdered on school buses, murdered in pizza parlors, mudered in dance clubs, murdered by rocket fire, murdered by crazed savage Islamonazi gunmen?
How sorry were Norwegians in the 1940s when they took 1,000 Jews (half their Jewish population) including hundreds of children, and had them sent to death camps?
How sorry are they, sir?
Eric, by your standards I should hate all Jews because the Lehi murdered my uncle. I don’t because I know it wasn’t personal and the British Mandate was often wrong. If an Englishman went on a killing spree in Israel and murdered 100 children I think I would be more concerned about the children than the nationality of the gunman. Your attempt at second guessing the views of the parents of the murdered children is just unfounded conjecture and frankly unpleasant.
Dear Comrade Stanley (or is it Herr Stanley)?
I don’t give a *%$! at this point what you think.
Of course they will, being on of the worst JEW-HATING countries in the world.
These deaths do not make me happy. The islamist garbage are just that and should be picked up and dumped by any means necessary.
SORRY, CENSOR.
doesn’t pay to be a quisling. they also planned (norway) to support a palistine state.
norway is in need of lessions on strong horse weak horse
Whereas you are in need of a dictionary.
Bryan, I have found a video showing the second explosion! :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCCR3YKnM8&feature=player_embedded
Please update the post with this embedded video.
On closer inspection, the video looks faked! So, please ignore.
Some YouTuber was just trying to troll for traffic, and did a VERY quick video montage using a picture of the actual explosion. You’ve got to admire his skill and speed, in any case!
So far, only reports of one bomb in Oslo. The car observed at the scene is probaly too intact to have been carrying a bomb of the magnitude in question.
Three or four are reported killed by the gunman disguised as a policeman. He claimed to check up on the camp because of the terror bombing, so it’s likely related. The camp in question is the summercamp for auf, the Labor Party youth organization.
Seven dead in the shooting, the assailant arrested.
Gun control sure kept them safe from the shooter, dint it?
Snork,
Good to see you! You should stop by Blogmocracy and visit us!
Snork, guns are outlawed in Norway, don’t you know? Where Norwegians screwed up was, they forgot to outlaw bombs and, bomb making material such as fertilizer diesel fuel rent-a-trucks etc.
“Labor party youth organization” What is that, a socialist training camp? It sounds like something out of Nazi germany.
Well, yes, actually, it is a socialist training camp. Also known as, an indoctrination summer camp for teens run by the country’s ruling political party, the Labor Party, which is basically socialist.
Things are different in Europe.
More commonly known in the U.S. as summer school.
I think you imagine it to be something along the lines of the Vacation Liberty Schools that Tea Party groups organised as an alternative to traditional American summer camps, with young children being brain-washed. But really it is for teenagers and young adults who are already active in Labour politics, like a long party convention but for youth.
Wigglesworth: “‘Labor party youth organization’ … It sounds like something out of Nazi germany.”
The attacks were aimed at a Labor government and a Labor youth group. The natural conclusion is that the attacker(s) are right-wing anti-Labor conservative radicals of some stripe — whether Islamic, Christian, or nationalist.
I can’t say I’m surprised that some of the right-wing conservative radicals here would spit upon the victims of these attacks. It’s clear that your political beliefs mostly align with the attackers, at least to the extent of your shared violent hatred towards anyone with political beliefs to the left of your own.
Despicable, vile comment. Typical lefty: no slime left unsmeared.
He was right, the attacker (and there may have been more than one) was a Christian conservative who hated Muslims. The first posters were on to something when they realized that they hated the kids at the camp to.
Yub, they were on to something, all right. Then they’ve spent the whole rest of the evening digging that hole deeper and deeper, with some garden-variety ad-hominem along the way.
(This by no means is to be construed to mean I don’t think almost every commenter on this page deserves to burn in Hell.)
Bohemond: “Despicable, vile comment.”
Wigglesworth compared the 15 and 16 year old victims to Nazis, yet my comment is the one that was “vile”? That’s an interesting morality there.
In any case, the terrorist is now confirmed to be a right-wing conservative Christian nationalist, 32 years old, named Anders Behring Breivik.
It means this was personal. I’m betting the killer was once connected to the political party, even attended this camp in the past. The killer’s political motives will be over-debated, but in the end he was just nuts. Arab killers looking to do a Beslan would have attacked small children nearby, not take a boat trip to an island.
He could be also politically motivated, but it will come that these motives were incoherent, like the Arizona congresswoman’s attacker.
Uh-huh, nothing to see here but us White Christian conservativesChickens.
He bombed the Government Buildings, then attacked the summer camp of our ruling political party.
Does he really have to use the victims’ blood to write “I am a right-wing lunatic and I love Glenn Beck” on the Royal Palace wall before you will accept this as a right-wing, political terrorist action?
He’s one of YOURS.
A blond, blue eyed Norwegian male.
You need to sober up from you ego fed hate fest and deal with reality.
You guys own this like other countries own their own hatefilled madmen.
Mark Lepin,
Tim VcVeigh,
V-Tech (- what’s it’s name ? – ah who cares…)
the puke who murdered Anna Lindh in Stockholm,
and etc..try to deal with it like an adult for a change instead of wishing people to hell because they disagree with you.
Scandanaivete has blended the radical Islam and socialist cocktail without intending the consequences.
It is now drinking in the results.
I am sad for them.
And afraid for us. We have spent the last ten years shaken, not stirred.
Not bad, Metaphoropheles.
In truth, what has happened is that we have let you bastards go too far, thinking you’d wisen up and get civilized. We were wrong. Our children paid the price. I do not think we will make this mistake again.
“In truth, what has happened is that we have let you bastards go too far, thinking you’d wisen up and get civilized…”
As civilized as your child killing, bomb setting, mass killing “ethnic Norwegian” is?
But have the started rounding up the usual suspects yet, Jews, Israelis and American Mid-Western tourists.
Probably not the “recognizable Jews” who are bombing the recognizable Norwegian politicians and recognizable Norwegian children.
Europe has traded a peaceful, productive population (Jews they sent to the death camps), with a welfare dependent, hostile Muslim population. Amazingly, they continue to demonize Jews and Israel and appease Muslims who refuse to follow the norms of western society. Will they wake up before it’s too late?
Cynthia your comment brought on some deep thinking. What did humanity lose by killing millions of Jews, my God, it makes one stop in their tracks, and comprehend something so profound. Humanity is paying a great price for this sin of enormous satanic proportions. Just imagine.
The Jewish people have given the world so much. One just need look at what countries looked like before their departure.
Take Egypt as an example. An old saying goes “Where the Islamist foot lands nothing grows for a thousand years”. No wonder the lazy left love them so.
According to the great minds at Homeland Security, the Norwegian authorities should first see if any middle-class white Americans are on the loose, causing this trouble.
Not bad for a country that supports the boycott of Israeli products. They should keep up the good work, you can already see the results. Let’s send them some more Moslems, they richly deserve them.
I posted this some time back at Rubin’s blog, but it hasn’t posted up yet….
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-07/63429160-22083902.jpg
Oslo…
see connection with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Islam (Kurdish Islamist group driven out of Iraq into Iran by US and Kurdish forces)
Note recent ambush killing 13 Turkish soldiers and declarations from some local “Kurdish” leaders in Al-Zour, Syria that they would “eat” Ambassador Ford should he enter the city. The large population of Kurds in Al-Zour hardly love Assad, lay claim to the oil (as they do in Northern Iraq) and know how the Kurds in Iraq feel about the US. So what Kurd was speaking for who?
The recent attack in Mumbai, the killing of Karai’s half-brother, the bombings in Iraq and now Norway suggest some timing. The common denominator appears the Iranian/Syrian nexus with the ISI, al-Islam, the Taliban, AQ all playing their parts.
Well that’s certainly a better explanation than Assad’s idea that the US is behind his problems……..
And also note that those possibly responsible for terrorist attacks in Norway were the very people Bush accused Saddam of supporting in his claim AQ was linked to al-Islam and Saddam was supportive. Certainly the first chance the Kurds got with US help, was to drive al-Islam into Iran along with some AQ where they have stayed for a decade or so.
My understanding is that Erdogan is not certain of his security should he follow through with his revenge in Gaza protest. More than a month ago, a few noted that Assad’s next move in his gambit with Turkey, is to launch proxy terrorist acts. Even one “ME fringe new source” predicted that would be Assad’s next move should Erdogan not blink.
How long will Assad last? Well if there is a connection between al-Islam and the hits on Turkey and Oslo, Assad’s relationship “ought” to incur Europe’s anger…….
July 22, 2011 – 5:26 pm Link to this Comment | Reply”
Also, my sympathy for those injured and killed in Norway. They and their families must know how we have sacrificed to defeat these apparent criminals. Whatever the differences our nations have on a political level, we have far more in common. This appears an attack on Liberal Democracy. Eventually, we must learn to stand together (crossing our partisan divides), or we will all fall individually against the scourge of terrorism, radical ideology and unfortunately a desperate network in the Islamic work completely at odds with the values we share with our friends across the globe.
TICK
TOCK
M
Aftenposten.no reports that the fake policeman who shot the kids at the camp has been apprehended and he has a “Nordic appearance.”
I just wrote this LAST NIGHT to a leftist-socialist in Sweden who was arguing how evil the US is, esp. for our military exploits: “Yea…well…what would Sweden do after getting a terrorist attack and losing 3,000 citizens? Visualize puppies and rainbows? (And Sweden WILL get attacked.) What should we do in an age when anybody may have a nuclear bomb? Put our heads in the sand and watch ‘Friends’ reruns?”
The article said the suspect was going to the Island in connection with the bomb blasts so the two incidents appear connected.
As for al-Islam, they have sent out a message briefly translated by JW:
“Praise be to Allah from his slaves, united and humiliating the people of shirk [worship of others besides Allah] and companions of kufr [unbelief]. Prayers and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets, his family and companions and descendents.
The Almighty said: “Then fight in Allah’s cause – Thou art held responsible only for thyself – and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment. [Qur'an 4:84]
Here another message from the militants has reached the countries of Europe and further proof for the countries of Europe that the Mujahideen will not stand idly before their war against Islam and Muslims.
Today Norway has been targeted in order to be a lesson, and a lesson to the rest of Europe. We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations and we have demanded that European countries of Europe withdraw their armies from the land of Afghanistan and end their war on Islam and Muslims. We repeat our warning again to the countries of Europe and tell them that the demands of the mujahideen must be carried out. What you see is only the beginning. There will be more.
There were many reasons for the targeting of Norway. The most important is their participation in the occupation of Afghanistan and the abuse of our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Praise Allah who has enabled his slaves to be united…and pray to Allah to save our brothers and our fighters everywhere.
Glory and praise to Allah. I bear witness that there is no god but you and I repent to you.
Abu Suleiman Al-Nasser
Helpers of Global Jihad”
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/al-nasser-lideen-allah-abu-suleiman/
We see this guy in Iraq, then Afghanistan, he leaves a message regarding the recent Swedish bombing, is sighted in Yemen, claimed killed, but in the end, it does appear a nexus between AQ and al-Islam with obvious support by the usual suspects given his movements and activities….
I would not be surprised Europeans were employed. We shall see…
Bruce Bawer. We needn’t have to say more.
It all reminds me of Caleb Carr’s piece after the London bombing including his observations about the Madrid bombings.
http://saltspringnews.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=12894
The sociopath strikes those who are most secure in their invulnerability or immunity. Heart wrenching that the lesson goes unlearned.
The original Wall Street Journal post of the Carr article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112174022942089149,00.html?mod=opinion%5Fmain%5Fcommentaries
Hey I know, let’s give them a few billion more to buy guns and bomb to attack us with.
We may not be at war with islam (so our leaders keep telling us), but islam is obviously at war with us. And unless we start defending ourselves, by not letting them in our country’s and by not trying to win hearts and minds and start trying to win the war, we are doomed.
“In any case I’ve never sought to serve any ideological establishment in my writings, only to express my own sense of things – which includes reserving the right to criticize undemocratic tendencies on both the right and the left. From time to time this apparent want of ideological purity has caused confusion or even indignation among readers who expect one to fit into a neat right-or-left dichotomy. So be it. As far as I am concerned, the left-right dichotomy has become meaningless anyway. Read A Place at the Table and Stealing Jesus and While Europe Slept and Surrender one after the other and you will see that all four books are motivated by a dedication to individual identity and individual freedom and an opposition to groupthink, oppression, tyranny.” Bruce Bawer
Latest news: Seven people killed in the bomb explosion, maybe as many as ten killed at the summer camp.
#23, it seems that some 30 people may have been shot, in that camp.
Obama, and the rest of the West think that all we have to do is pull our troops out of the ME, make friends with the local mosques, be tolerant of cultural “differences” , and then rainbows will appear, and we will all end happily ever after.
There is a lovely word to describe my own feeling: schadenfreud.
“24
The shooter has been described as 6’3″, blond, white, speaking a clear eastern norwegian dialect. He is now in custody.
And it is spelled Schadenfreude, you pathetic swine. Shadenfreude over the killings of 30+ youngsters from the ages of 15 to 18.
There are no words for people like you.
A Norwegian.
What’s going on over there Kristian? What happened to all the Vikings? Are they now praying to Allah the moon god, not Thor?
Vikings know about blood. Blood vengeance, going on and on over generations. Hence, we try to find the correct target for our vengeance, lest we bring in the uninvolved.
Know this: Our police have the shooter. They know who he is. They know the group to which he belongs. We also know that he is, as we said, 6’3″, blonde, white and speaks perfect norwegian with a norwegian dialect.
This is not an islamic terrorist action.
If anything, the perpetrator looks *very much* like …you lot…
And after I sent you a reply I read this. TI don’t know who the hell you are talking about or how you know what anyone here looks like. Why would you accuse anyone here of terrorist desires or wanted to attack a NATO member with a shared sense of Liberal Democracy?
Chill out. A conspiracy by right wingers to launch a false flag operation to incite violence against Muslims would not have carried it out with such little regard for not getting caught. And Norway was threatened by al-Islam for deporting a leader.
Sorry, are you confused?
Okay, straight beef: You (plural for almost every single commenter on this thread) are brownshirts. The only difference between you and the maniac in Norway is that he had the courage of his convictions, and he could shoot.
Not happy? GOOD! If I were to pinpoint whose crazy-talk our little local maniac has been listening to, those persons are american. Eighty of our children are dead, and from where I am sitting, the culprits wear us flag lapel-pins.
You fool. There were Norwegian traitors who supported Quisling. You think there aren’t any Norwegian traitors who have converted to the Religion of Death?
Islam is not a race.
He didn’t convert, he was just raised in the religion of Death. White, Christian conservatism.
Perhaps you are unaware, Kristian, but Ynet News reports that a person or group purported to be affiliated Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami took responsibility for the (presumably) car bombing in Oslo although it wasn’t absolutely clear whether it was taking responsibility for the bombing and/or the random shooting at the Youth Camp. At any rate, an Islamic group was most certainly involved in Norway on this most deadly day as a result, it (Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami) avers, of Norway’s participation in Afghanistan. JPost commented that a police spokesman believed that there was a relationship between the two attacks, that they were not independent events. I suppose we’ll find out. At any rate, it doesn’t take a farsighted genius to predict that more bombings and other terror attacks from Islamic sympathizers are on the menu for all the independent nations of Western Europe. I suppose they’ll be contacting Israeli officials, the Shin Bet and the IDF to receive help in combatting terrorism. Whose expertise is more developed than Israels?
Before this, we have had a single terrorist act happen on Norwegian soil. The perpetrators were (very confused) Israeli government operatives.
Somehow, I don’t think we want the “help” of your Israeli “friends”.
The Vikings, and the Viking spirit, isnt in Scandanavia. Those people were the ones who would not submit, thus they left or were pushed out…exploring, settling and conquering other lands. I imagine most of that spirit ended up in the northeast U.S.
Must be one of those elusive neo nazis.
They are running scared.
Well that must mean you guys in Norway are on the right track.
Just……
1. Put in place more restrictions on speech that goes against the socialist party line.
2. Leave NATO
3. Import another 100.000 muslims
4. Ramp up the retoric against Israel and the US
5. Increase ‘aid’ to the ‘Palestinians’.
6. Forcefully remove the zionists (Jews) from Norway.
7. Implement more Sharia laws.
8. Introduce re-education camps for all blond, white Norwegians.
Good luck.
By the way, how is the lemming population (the four legged kind) in Norway these days?
Oh, look… Another person going “If you don’t believe like I do, you must be like my worst enemy.”
You don’t have the solution, dear. You are just part of the problem. That you are scum as well just makes not liking you easier. Now go away.
Dear Kristian
“If you don’t believe like I do, you must be like my worst enemy.”
Are you the Norwegian variant of, “do as I say, not as I do”?
“You don’t have the solution, dear. You are just part of the problem. That you are scum as well just makes not liking you easier. Now go away.”
I know you have all the solutions in the socialist worker paradise of Norway.
I mean, you guys lead the world in ‘progressive’ thinking, giving Arafat a Nobel Peace Prize, cool.
I know I am scum for pointing out that there is ‘something rotten in the kingdom of Norway’ and not towing the Norwegian Socialist Party line and I sincerely apologise for that. I will go away and book myself into a re-education camp as soon as possible.
Keep focussing on the blond white Norwegians and those pesky Jews. I think you should re-introduce the ban on Jews again you had written in Norwegian law for more than 200 years.
Or try the strategy you applied in the 40’s when the heroic Norwegians got nearly all Jews, who did not escape to Sweden or beyond, deported to death camps.
War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength
From an american, that’s just rich.
Slavery.
Hiroshima.
Indian Genocide.
Not entering World War 2 before you got your asses handed to you by the Japanese.
CIA in South and Central America.
You had the Dust Bowl, and now you don’t believe in global warming.
Iraq. Twice.
I mean… You could at least *pretend* to be learning from your mistakes and become a force for good, instead of just a force for corporatism and “Less for you means more for me!-ism”.
Also, you’re way easy to wind up. Gesundheit.
Sorry..
You are not too bright Kristian, are you?
1. Your ‘tu quoque’ argument is tiresome. Don’t you learn anything at school in Norway?
2. I am not an American (But I would rather be an American than a Norwegian).
3. If not for the American involvement in WW II you would be speaking German now.
Wasn’t it these Squareheads that sold out to Hitler? Taking bets now that this hulking Scowegian they’ve got in the clink is a convert to Mohammedanism.
Step up folks, five will get you ten.
“Hiroshima.”
Shhhh.
Lefty rocket scientist at work.
Old Kris is trying to prove what mean, wicked folks we right wingers are, so he brings up Hiroshima, an American bombing raid that killed around 100,000 civilians and that was entirely the work of America’s left wing/socialist political party (that would be the Democrats).
Great job there, hoss. Hope that shooting yourself in the foot wasn’t too painful.
Your mad shooter might be some sort of badass right wing nut, but he’s got a lot of killing to do before he catches up with American lefties like Woody Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson. Those old boys have a few million scalps on their belts, while your wannabe neo-Viking ain’t even reached a hundred yet.
But, you know what I always say, fellas, when it comes to killing folks, nobody does it better than lefties.
Are you under the impression that I consider the US Democrat Party of today (much less that of 1945!) to be “leftist”?
Ahahahahahahahahaha!
Your Democrat party is, even today, to the *right* of our own “Progress Party”, which is as far to the right as we consider wise to go.
You suck at this even worse than I thought.
Let’s see…what’s the latest lie from our fake Norwegian leftard?
‘Are you under the impression that I consider the US Democrat Party of today (much less that of 1945!) to be “leftist”?’
Oh, not that old chestnut. Claiming that leftists (like our socialist “liberal” Democrats) aren’t REALLY leftists. That is so old hat. Same thing commies have been claiming about Stalin et al for years.
If you’re going to spew lies, leftard, can’t you at least come up with something original?
Kristian,
Why would someone that looks like us murder children? Do you know?
Because they were socialists, of course. Because they were being “indoctrinated”. Because they “ramp up the rethoric against Israel and the US”, or they are “dhimmi”. Or choose any other of the reasons that have come up in this thread.
I mean, look at the kind of comments that have turned up in this place, this thread, today. You speak ill of dead children you don’t even know, claim we got what we deserved for not taking islam seriously, then turn around and claim all we want is islam when it turns out the killer’s identity didn’t actually fit your insane little morality play.
You should be ashamed of yourselves. But you are too emotionally immature to accept shame. To accept that you were wrong, and so you will continue to twist your minds to fit the world to your preconceptions.
Today, you were wrong. Try to be a little less wrong tomorrow. Please.
Slavery? Okay, what about those Vikings who raped and slaughtered their way around Northern Europe enslaving people willy-nilly and yelling and stuff? Danegeld doesn’t refer to an operation but to bribes paid to Berserker nitwits to stay home.
Eventually we had to Christianize you just to get you to stop and then you took a long, sleepy-time nap that’s never had an alarm clock go off.
I like the Mighty Thor and stuff but you act like Loki or one of those rock-trolls or whatever the hell they’re called.
Remember Journey Into Mystery #137, The Thunder God and the Troll? Which are you?
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Hey! I missed you! But I think I have time to reload…
Your knowledge of Norwegian history is even more lacking than my knowledge of US geography. But then, I don’t try to tell natives the way to Chicago, neither.
The Danegeld was a tax. You might want to look up the concept. Also, you might want to look up “Dane”.
And then the idea that Christening us made us stop raiding. Hahahaha! Who’s “we” here, anyway? The US wasn’t around at the time, as I recall.
But “sleepytime nap” is good. It kind of jives with actual norwegian history, since we kinda ceased to exist as a power due to the Black Death, and then spent some time under Denmark (napolean wars), and then Sweden (after Napoleon lost and we got sold off as loot.)
Loki is a nice god. Well, half-god. And not really nice. But he *is* the god of wisdom and trickery. Certain forms of wisdom, at least. He’s a good totem. My thanks for the compliment.
It is interesting how Kristian comes here and blames the commentators,the U.S. and Jews for this tragedy.He refers to inaccurate and unconnected history such as slavery :
5% of enslaved Africans were delivered to the U.S. the majority were enslaved by muslims for 1400 yrs and still are today.
Native American genocide? That theory was in reference to a book about S. American history.A pseudo Dr.and native tried to claim the same occured here.He also wrote a book about 9/11 declaring it the U.S.’s fault.He has been fired and put on trial for falsifying records,plagiarism and dismissed from Native American organizations for being a fake Indian,his name is Ward Churchill.
The dust bowl of the 1920′s proves global warming?
Vietnam? Iraq? These reference makes no sense whatsoever.
Mr.Kristian is just using this horrible event to spew his hatred of Americans and Jews,ignoring the facts of muslims killing over 1 billion ppl,forcing their practices and beliefs on others and instigating hate towards themselves by their primitive,totalitarian ideology and superior attitude.Kind of like Mr.Kristian is doing.Blame the naysayers but not the cause.
My deepest sympathies go out to the victims and parents of this tragedy.
Debbie, every single thing you speak of has been *in response* to shit-slinging from other commentors.
Why don’t you comment on what *they* say?
WEhy do you insist on being an apologist for people who cheer a child-murderer?
Kristian, he just speaks for himself.
I agree with you and no matter who is responsible my sympathies for the carnage. Given the blasts in Sweden and a message of responsibility above, it seems reasonable to assume extremists from the ME. If it turn out extremists recruited a national, that is very bad for all of Europe and America. If it turn out a nut case, then you will need some soul searching on a domestic level. In any case, ignore the distasteful.
Thank you.
You are an uneducated little twit. How old are you? Thirteen? Twelve? You aren’t even smart enough to be confused with an aging baby boomer still trying to re-live the Summer of Love and the warm summer day they protested against the war. I’m sorry that the cheer leaders are mean to you and that you are an unpopular social misfit. Your comments might have been mistaken for cool 40 years ago, but today they just let us know that you are a pimple-faced dweeb attempting to please a 50ish middle school teacher who couldn’t get a real job.
I don’t like to interrupt someone who is so obviously having a good time… But I think you are talking to yourself. And this normally doesn’t require typing.
so how old are you? If you believe in yourself, be proud of who you are.
sorry, I guess it is past your bedtime.
Yes, it is rather past my bedtime. That would be because I live in Norway, which is six hours ahead of you, oh dim-witted one.
you spar like a child and seem to believe that because you can spew a few negative talking points regarding the sins of Western civilization that people will think you are something other than a teenage twit. You never did answer how old you are.
#24, Schadenfraude is a bit harsh in this situation, don’t you think? I can understand the bitter satisfaction they must feel, all those who have warned us about radical Islam. It is more than ironic that the Labour party, who are among the strongest defenders of the multicultural society, seems to have been targeted by the terrorists.
The vile perpetrator of this deed has also paralyzed any action Norway might need to take to fight Islamofascism. Since the terrorist is a 6’3 blonde Norwegian, the press and the elites will be falling over themselves condemning “white racist terror” and “Christian terrorism” and forevermore, his name will be invoked whenever a terror attack occurs anywhere in Europe, and the elites will double down on multiculturalism.
In the US, thanks to McVeigh, DHS considers white Christians to be even more prone to terrorism than Muslims. McVeigh has nullified our fight against Islamic terror and his name is invoked by all the elites wanting to pooh-pooh our concerns about jihadists.
Simply because the terrorist is white and blonde does not means he is not a muslim.
http://debka.com/article/21142/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/blonde-muslims-find-shelter-in-pakistan-refugees-from-bosnia-were-given-a-warm-welcome-in-a-distant-land-ahmed-rashid-writes-from-islamabad-1493968.html
I know the second news article is old however I posted it to demonstrate the reality as opposed common misconception that all muslims look alike. They don’t. And it is not a fantasy to assume that agents have been placed long ago as children within societies targeted for domination. Who knows- maybe one day they will be able to place someone as President of the United States of America?
Or maybe the nationalsocialismus-party of Deutchland foresaw their own demise under the mighty hand of divine, demure AMERICA and so planted their own sleeper agents who, once the Communist plot that was The Internets had reached fruition, would undermine America’s divine rule by insisting that the Muslims were an existential threat that required continuous twin wars, eternal vigilance against the uppity black man, and TORTURE for fun and profit!
You know, I’d say that makes more sense, really. “More” being *entirely* relative here.
PS: Sorry if I broke your cover.
Kristian, let’s cut the bull, the killing of innocent people, children, is an obvious hallmark of one particular group: white guys in hoodies.
Hmmm…additionally, I am skeptical about the suspect being a norwegian looking fellow. It is possible that that could be inaccurate for any number of reasons.
Why, you don’t mean to insinuate that the press would LIE about something like that, do you?
Norwegian police now say that the murderer is an 32 yr old extreme right-wing Norwegian native terrorist who is responsible for both attacks
OK, now I am even more skeptical
Kid, insisting on your own reality after the other reality (you know, the one that *isn’t* inside your head) has intruded is not scepticism. It’s merely stubborness.
Kristian,
I’m not sure I follow your logic. Neo-Nazi murders white children in the name of socialism? Neo-Nazis would murder blacks, or Arabs.
Look, I feel bad what happen to those children. It just seems so early for Norway’s government to list the perp as a right-wing extremist, and not write which group he belongs to. A Muslim terrorist group has taken responsibility.
We see the same thing here with DHS. They are quick to write no Muslim was involved, then we find out later it was all about following Muhammad. Remember Belson in Russia?
If it is indeed a right wing crazy neo-Nazi. Why would he murder white children? It does not make sense. Perhaps, he was after someone’s child, or children belonging to a certain group.
Anyway, G-d’s speed to those children who had their innocents taken from them by a mad man.
It’s not like Nazis pre-1933 targeted exclusively Jews. On the contrary, they specifically went after liberals, socialists, communists to stir society up.
Kristian,
I keep responding before I see the next post. Sorry for being out of sequence. To summarize in response to what I have read of your comments:
When the US shooter was captured for killing a little girl and putting a bullet through a Congresswoman’s head in Colorado, the media here jumped at describing the man as a right-wing extremist and then in the face of contradictory statements from people who knew him and his on line rants, went to some length covering the fact he was a Left-wing nut job. Understand why Americans might be a bit suspicious of media handling of this episode, though I see some here hope it is a ME terrorist, not to suggest anyone here wanted Norwegian to die. You can’t say that please. Several times our government has characterized our lone wolves, in NYC and on a military base, to muffle public outrage being directed at Muslims from the ME groups we all. When Obama, your Noble Award Winner, took office his advisers used the term Man-Made Disaster in describing terrorist attacks.
Time will tell exactly who this was and any network he was involved with. The Norwegian government will have to be transparent in the end, not to suggest it hasn’t been so far.
The ranting back and forth about ideology and historical record is sad. This is supposed to be about the events in Oslo today and a search for truth. Let’s moan for those killed and injured and a speedy discovery of the truth. Since I’m an Independent, I have no partisan bone to pick. Kirstian, I will say your spin on US foreign policy is a bit twisted. I see you’re angry. You did not consider the role AQ and al-Islam play together. If it turns out ME terror was the cause, what would you say? Do you think they have no plans for your country? Will you just say the US caused these people to be violent? No matter the cause of Oslo, terrorists have made themselves clear to the people of Norway, Sweden, France, Holland, Italy, Spain, Poland, etc etc…
You suggest some here would exploit ME perps to incite their agenda (whatever that is), but I hope no matter the investigation, you don’t do the same. C
And a note: even at the height of the Cold War, the Soviets and the US did not engage in terrorism. In WW2, the Germans kept to the Geneva convention despite the concentration camps. Even as someone who likes to “attempt” being impartial, the people we’re up against play a different tune and it is beyond my powers of comprehension why Intellectuals in the West would find radical Islam anything but abhorrent. Profoundly, abhorrent by any definition of Liberal Democracy or even human rights.
If not in Oslo today, Somewhere in the future.
A neo-Nazi might shoot socialist bantlings he thinks will grow up and enable the wholesale transfer of muslims to Norway and put them on welfare so they can burn tires cuz Norwegians are racists.
You’re on drugs.
A neo-nazi would not kill socialist-indoctrinated children because they were *white*? If communism was allowed in the US, do you think the Teatard crazies would not be attacking them because they were white? Your political extremists only kill their political opponents/boogiemen when they are of a different colour?
First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
No mention of skin colour anywhere. Drugs. Get off them.
Maxtrue said, “In WW2, the Germans kept to the Geneva convention despite the concentration camps.”
In fact, they only did so (in part) with respect to those nations which were signatories of the Geneva convention (which Germany was not). Russia was not a signatory either, and Russian prisoners were very very badly treated. Also, the Gestapo murdered some British prisoners who escaped, contrary to the convention.
Yeah? Give it some time slick, we will see.
Kristian:
“From an american, that’s just rich.
Slavery.
Hiroshima.
Indian Genocide.
Not entering World War 2 before you got your asses handed to you by the Japanese.
CIA in South and Central America.
You had the Dust Bowl, and now you don’t believe in global warming.
Iraq. Twice.”
Yup, the usual litany. Gotta love a Viking complaining about slavery and ‘genocide.’
But the funniest bits are the logical disjuncts- on the one hand you pretend that the USA had some supposed obligation to get embroiled in one of Europe’s regular internecine bloodlettings- and then bring up Hiroshinma as if actually fighting that war was some sort of dreadful crime. You juxtapose the Dust Bowl and “global warming” as if they’re remotely connected. You bitch that we’re not “a force for good in the world,” but then whine over our double defeats of Saddam Hussein.
In other words, a random heap of judgmental vitriol without even internal logic: you’re just a bundle of smug Lefty arrogance.
You see, unlike tiny little nations in the bleachers looking on, Great Powers can’t afford to be liked all the time. Our responsibilites don’t allow us the luxury of sanctimoniously mouthing politically-correct pieties.
Awww, did I hurt your feefees?
Didn’t even mention Korea. Or Vietnam. And you think “defeating” your former WMD-using-while-he-was-your-puppet Saddam twice, in both cases on false premises, somehow makes you a force for good?
Heh. Hmmm… This thing doesn’t have a font large enough to fit the Heh properly. Ah well. I’ll just mention Vietnam again. Vietnam! See? Huuurtses! Now go away, or I shall taunt you a third time.
As if you guys have ever taken a stand on anything in a thousand years. You really are a C U Next Tuesday…and a spiteful one as well.
I think you will find plenty of people in this forum who will swear dead that we *have* taken stands, and that they were the wrong ones.
Of course, half of them are wrong on the facts, the rest are incoherent, and what few are left I have thoroughly slapped around.
Which group are you?
I prefer Can’t Understand Normal Thought.
Ah. You can spell.
Should I applaud now?
However… Which bit of the hateful screeds ejaculated over this thread by your co-ideologists is it you consider “normal”?
There is another n-word that fits far better.
The suspect is apparently a Norwegian farmer with access to fertilizers that can be used to make a powerful fuel oil/ fertilizer bomb.
Police reports are— that he is a known extreme right wing Norwegian activist.
Leatherneck –
Good point. I was thinking of the shooter in the mall in Nevada, the Times Square bomber, the recent airline sabateur, etc…any number of muslim extremist attacks where the left claimed it had to be a right winger while they prayed it was and diddled themselves, only to be surprised yet again that it was in the name of allah.
If it turns out to be a muslim, how would the residents of oslo react?
Kristian- Cupcake, I am not so willing to swallow anything the official sources put out. Wait until the dust settles and we will see. If I am wrong, I am wrong.
With the number of dicks you have down your throat, I am surprised you can swallow at all… But then, I always suspected that Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and company were compensating for something.
LOL
What an ignorant little man you are.
Must suck to be bitter ‘you’ everyday…wow.
If socialism is so wonderful how come you’re so miserable?
How come I am so miserable?
Eighty-five. Dead. Children.
Congratulations on forgetting the point again.
We all know these terrorists will be found to be white men in hoodies. Let’s not kid ourselves.
Kurds? Sorry, I thought it was Turds.
Nice hatred, when are you going on a murder rampage?
Neo fascists are not right wing nor left wing–they are anti democratic.
For example– Israel FM Lieberman has expressed his admiration for the China and Soviet regimes–so he qualifies as a Benito fascist
–with his Kach Kahane past–a nationalist fascist movement.
So the Norwegian appears to be in the same same club as FM Lieberman.
Now Victor take your pills like you’re supposed to, things will be better in the morning. Great parallels! Who’d a thunk. You still are an anti-Semitic son of a b…..
And for the record – “Nazis” were and are “socialists.” “National Socialist.” “Nazi” was never a self-referent. Read up the original NSDAP 25-Point party manifesto. Aside from blaming everything on “the Jews” instead of “the rich,” it could come straight out of the DNC.
Norwegians should know all about that though, since they were on Hitler’s side in the war.
We were on Hitler’s side in the war? Wow. That’d be news to Hitler.
And suuuuuuure, Nazi’s were socialists. Yeah. Right. Would you like freedom fries with that?
I think PsychoDad is referring to Vidkun Quisling, the Prime Minister of NOrway during much of WW II. The Wikipedia article about him describes his government as a (Nazi-) collaborationist one that seized power via a coup.
Also, if I’m not mistaken, there were some Norwegian units fighting with Hitler’s forces in the Soviet Union during WW II, although I’m not sure if they were volunteers or conscripts.
I don’t say any of this to suggest that there was any strong majority sentiment in favour of Nazism by Norwegians in WW II. Clearly, there were some pro-Nazi groups in Norway just as there were in most countries at the time, including the US and Britain, and some of them took advantage of the situation to seize power undemocratically.
Criticizing Norwegians for Quisling’s coup is as silly as calling all Russians in 1917 Communists simply because Lenin’s Bolsheviks seized power in coup that year. Lenin and his party had very little popular support but managed to overcome his badly-divided enemies via sheer ruthlessness. Quisling’s Nazi patrons were not so lucky so he ended up on the ash heap of history.
My deepest condolences on the tragedy in Oslo on July 22. In my opinion, no decent person can ever condone the slaughter of innocents under any circumstances. After the horrific school shootings in Beslan, Russia a few years ago, I remember avowed leftists saying it served them (the children and their parents) right that they were massacred due to Russian brutality against Chechens during the Chechen struggle for independence. As far as I’m concerned, it’s not right to kill innocents EVER. Period.
A sane person. I salute you, sir. Bring friends, please. This place is a shithole.
… only since you’ve arrived.
I am not even going to read this or anything else on this atrocity for a few days. But I know one thing: the two events were not coincidental. Get ready, euro puddin’ cups. They’re coming for ya.
We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens
All citizens shall have equal rights and duties, regardless of class or station.
We therefore demand – The abolition of incomes unearned by work- The breaking of interest slavery – We therefore demand the ruthless confiscation of all war profits- We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations – The passing of a law instituting profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises- The creation of a livable wage – We demand the treasonable system of health care be completely revolutionized.land reform will be to ensure the environmental integrity of the nation is preserved;
By setting aside land for national wildlife refuges;
By cleaning the urban, agricultural, and hydrographical (water) areas of the nation;
By creating legislation regulating the amount of pollution, carbon dioxide, greenhouse gases , and toxins released into the atmosphere;
And for the continued research and development of clean burning fuels and energy sources.
==========
Quick! Which ones are by the Democrats and which ones are by the Nazis?!?!
Why do the political leaders in almost every Western Country, including USA, not understand what the intent of the Muslim Terrorist, and every Middle eastern Muslim Country. There is not one Muslim Country Leader that is not in league with the Terrorist. The Terrorist are just the Infantry fighting the
Global War against all non Muslims.
And Norway, along with Obama take’s the position in favor of the Muslim’s over the State of Isreal.
What is it they do not see.
Oh, and one more thing, the fact that it was Oslo, the home of the “Peace Prize” that was hit? Again, part of the grand plan. Islam (radical Islam, political Islam, call it what you will) hacked a lugie right in your effing face, Norway. They see you as a nation of worms that they can treat with as they wish.
There is no question that these terrorists were Palin supporters, outraged that the
Norwegians were not going to award the Lord Obama his NEXT Nobel Peace Prize!
This was done by one of you. Someone who defines himself as a patriot and an anti-muslim. And you have the gall, the nerve, to tell me “it was a sleeper agent!”"It was the muslims! It must have been the muslims!” To bring your naive little bundles of utter ignorance to the bonfire of our loss…
Eighty of our children have not come home tonight. And they never will.
And if you have seen our national day parades, you know what we Norwegians treasure.
He murdered our children, by the score!
And he believed like you do. He is a creature of the same ignorance, the same insane naivety that thinks it is shrewdness.
I have no words for what you are. I wish I did. I wish I could make you see how you look to me, just for an instant. The ugliness, the twisted little screaming faeces (no, not a typo.)
Take it easy with the aquavit
And before you pop a vein, it was a NORWEGIAN who did this.
A Norwegian like you.
A product of your failed socialist state.
A country that demonises people that don’t conform to the groupthink, grants a peace prize to a terrorist and directly funds a terrorist organisation (Hamas) must produce some seriously schizophrenic people.
You are a good example.
You people really do like to talk to yourselves, don’t you? It’s really odd…
Or… Oh! I get it! You think you’re talking to me! Or at me.
Projection. Look it up.
“A product of your failed socialist state. A country that demonises people that don’t conform to the groupthink”
You just said it was a socialist state. Why would you think that it does something conservative like demonising those who don’t conform?
I think you may be a sane person. Can I watch you for a while? There be darn few of you around this morning.
Of course not.
The People’s Republic of China, the Republic of Cuba, the Lao People’s Democratic Republic, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea are beacons of freedom in this world.
“Why would you think that it does something conservative like demonising those who don’t conform?”
Didn’t the Norwegian police arrest two Christian missionaries in 2007 for spreading the gospel during an Oslo parade celebrating the birthday of the country’s constitution? And weren’t they found guilty by a Norway trial court for disturbing the peace?
What about Drammen this year where the police objected to a man, who had the nerve to exercise his (supposed) right to free speech, having Israeli flags on his wheelchair?
Of course Norwegians have no problem with Yusuf al-Qaradawi a muslim extremist and supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood terrorist organization.
Move on, nothing to see in the Socialist Kingdom of Norway. Everybody welcome as long as you are not Christian, jewish or pro Israel because that would disturb the peace.
The preachers, from what I can tell, were of the “Fire, hell and brimstone” -type, and they were scaring the kids in the 17th of May parade (Norwegian Constitution Day). This is a parade the kids walk in, unlike your military parades.
I’d say they were lucky to get away with merely “disturbing the peace”, instead of “ruining the day for the kids”, which we tend to take seriously.
Yesterday was a *serious* “ruining the day for the kids” -day.
Andy: “A product of your failed socialist state.”
So a right-wing conservative, someone sharing your own ideology, kills over 80 children just because they are at a summer camp organized by the Norwegian Labor party, and you say, “Socialists made us do it”?
May God have mercy on your soul.
.
So far, it isn’t clear what this guy believes. All we know is that he’s ethnically Norwegian and a native Norwegian speaker. (There’s also a Facebook profile, but apparently it was started only 5 days ago, which is kind of suspicious…if he was planning something that had the potential to be so high-profile, maybe it was created for that purpose?)
But anyway – even if he is a “conservative”, so what? The beliefs of an individual murderer don’t change the facts of larger issues. Assuming for the sake of argument that he is “right-wing” and “anti-Muslim”, does that change the fact that Islam as it is often practised (especially by people with the power to punish as “heretical” anyone who wants to be more secular):
•rejects the concept of equality between men and women?
•stifles the freedom of speech that is needed to debate important issues in a just and reasonable society, and the freedom to enrich our society by creating art and pursuing scientific discovery?
•aims to regulate things that should be the private business of individuals and families?
•generally subordinates decency, sanity, and human rights to superstition?
When JFK was assassinated, some people desperately “wanted” it to be someone on the right who had done it. It turned out not to be. It turned out that he was opposed politically by groups of people who also opposed each other. It’s almost never as simple as “this guy is ‘against’ policy/figure/idea X, this other guy is also ‘against’ it, therefore these two guys are on the same ‘side’.”
I’m kind of weary of all the posturing over “who’s on what ‘side’ concerning X”, as someone who has some “conservative” views despite not believing in God, and as someone who was once ridiculed as a “leftist troll” for posting a comment on Hot Air that mentioned the fact that I think evolution is an actual thing that has happened (by making an off-hand joke – a facetious addendum to a post in favour of Israel, believe it or not). If I wrote a manifesto and showed it to the readers of PJM, I think many people here would say that I’m not on their “side”. And then if I showed it to the other twenty-somethings I’m in grad school with, they’d surely cry “ZOMG, you evil ReThugliKKKan bigot!”
Pigeonholing people as “oh, he’s one of YOUR guys” isn’t always useful or even accurate. And it doesn’t magically invalidate the arguments of any individual or group.
In my view, american political discourse is utterly insane. What you call “moderate right” would be somewhere over the horizon of Norwegian thinking.
But you bring up an interesting point. Four points, in fact. Which you say defines Islam, and which *I* say defines the “right” in the US. Now you may or may not agree with what all the crazy people are saying, but you’re not speaking up against them (hmmm, this sounds familiar somehow…), so you’re letting them get off just because they are, nominally, on your “side”, while claiming you don’t want to be on any side.
Well, lad, you are defined not just by what you say, but also by what company you keep. And you keep the company of insanely destructive people.
The US “right” and the Islamic jihadists, you see, are not really opposed to one another. They feed on each other to keep chumps like you from speaking up. As long as there is an enemy, your political landscape will not get to enjoy the enema it so *desperately* requires.
You are appeasers of hate speech. And yesterday, Norway paid the price for your appeasement. Our children, killed by the score by one who is an ally, in word and thought and deed, with your “side”.
You generalize much too much, Kristian, in order, I suppose, to make your Marxist thinking shine. The “right” in the USA cannot so easily be characterized and defined as there are many variations and intensities. Your increasing anger allows you to slip by with this but it didn’t “slip by” me. Incidentally, you have used remarkable sexual descriptions to make several of your points, actually quite dirty. Did you think we hadn’t noticed? Where did that come from? What’s wrong? Well, I think it’s obvious. You’ve given yourself away.
Well, unlike you and your brownshirt friends, *I* have not been cheering a child-murderer. So if I have been “giving myself away”, what have you been doing?
To the extent that Christianity (or Judaism, or any other religion) has practices that have the effect of oppressing women or curtailing human rights, I certainly oppose those specific practices. (Especially if they oppress people who don’t even follow that religion…like that news story from Norway a few years ago where they said that non-Muslim schoolgirls in a certain area were being pressured to wear hijabs.)
Ignoring for now the precise definition of “keeping company”, isn’t guilt by association a logical fallacy anyway?
First comment from Kristian:
25. Kristian
“24
The shooter has been described as 6’3″, blond, white, speaking a clear eastern norwegian dialect. He is now in custody.
And it is spelled Schadenfreude, you pathetic swine. Shadenfreude over the killings of 30+ youngsters from the ages of 15 to 18.
There are no words for people like you.
A Norwegian.
Comes under; you get the kind of respect you comand.
Perhaps you’ve been too long on the internet this sad day, my condolences on your country’s loss.
Do you know the meaning of the word the swine used? He was happy that our children were dead because that would show us how right he and his ilk had been all the time.
Respect?
Now go sweep your own porch before you come whining about mine!
Heh, still snipping, snarling and spewing your vile eh?
Hope you don’t have access to a weapon.
Eighty children are killed by your ideologically identical twin, and you hope *I* don’t have access to a weapon?
Hatred is hatred.
Your just another one on the other side of that coin dear.
He’s one of yours, not an American; although I can see that’s huge part of your angst, anger and hatred. He’s a Norwegian, who’s full of hate – just like you.
Whatcha gonna do now? Hate more?
Pfft.
Death toll is now 87 dead.
Equivalent to about 5,300 in American population terms.
Why dont people storm lone gun men?
You want fifteen-year-olds to swarm a lone gunman with an automatic weapon?
May I thank you for your contribution and kick you in the teeth?
Bra!
Typical fascist.
Meets violence with violence upon someone else they hate more or most,
I have a hard time understanding a number of things.
First, eyewitnesses identified the man as being at both places, the bombing site and the shooting site on the Island. How the hell did he get across town? Second, how did he set off the bomb, successfully, when most Islamist terrorists like the Times Square bomber could not? Third, how did he get the police uniform he had? Fourth, how did he get the small arsenal he is described by eyewitnesses as having: several handguns, a shotgun, a “machine gun” and a scoped rifle? Fifth, how did he become such an able shot as to kill more than 80 at the Island? [Guns are not magic, it takes skill to use them on people running away for their lives.] Sixth, how did the one man target both places? Seventh, how did one man plant a major IED in front of the PM’s office. Eighth, why was there no manifesto issued? From Gerald Lee Loughner to George Sodini to Cho Seung Hui, those who shoot issue manifestos. Those who bomb like McVeigh and Eric Rudolph flee — they don’t stick around.
But what I cannot wrap my head around most, is how this guy was so quickly identified by eyewitnesses at the blast site. Really, this is the guy they pick out, so quickly? How was he identified? How did he get across town after a major building had been bombed? Did he fly? Teleport? Did he have a car? Who owned it? Was he driven? If you had been at OKC, could you have picked McVeigh out of a lineup? The guy’s a blonde Norwegian in a town full of them. And how does a conservative “farmer” get to be expert at making a bomb that blows up and goes off at the right time?
Either this guy had help, a lot of it (and I’d nominate Col. Khadaffi who threatened just this sort of thing in response to the bombings) or there’s a good possibility of another Richard Jewell (the FBI’s “he’s gotta be guilty” patsy — Eric Rudolph was the real bomber at the Atlanta Olympics).
Maybe this guy did it. Maybe he did it because he did not like Muslims … so he shot up a lot of blonde Norwegian kids?? Or maybe he was just crazy like Cho or Sodini or Loughner, a nut off his meds. [At which point a LOT of people just like in those cases looked the other way instead of saying, hey this guy's nuts he should be locked up.] But I get really suspicious of eyewitness testimony so quick, of seeing the guy at both places. [LA people know the infamous Brian Stow arrest of Giovanni Ramirez who police now say had nothing to do with the beating ... was based on ... eyewitness testimony, said eyewitnesses swearing up and down it was Ramirez. Two other men have now been arrested.]
I just don’t understand how police can get reliable eyewitness testimony in a few hours to identify this guy as the perp at both sites. That seems very, very odd. This kind of smells like Richard Jewell (the wrong man arrested for the Atlanta Olympics bombings done by Eric Rudolph). Maybe the guy did it, but I have a hard time understanding how he got across town to go kill people on a resort island so quickly, with (apparently) a load of guns, and never got stopped once by a cop. I don’t understand how he got all those guns. Norway being pretty restrictive. I don’t understand how he made a bomb that blew up, and actually worked. [Its harder than it seems in the movies, that's why Home Depots don't blow up all the time because they have fertilizer around.] But most of all I don’t understand motive.
A guy doesn’t like Muslims, I expect him to go after them. Not folks he supposedly likes, in a way guaranteed to discredit his cause. Crazy? Yeah that motive I understand, and money (from Col. Khadaffi) I understand. Right now this looks like John Wilkes Booth … showing up to shoot Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis.
Your problem? Too much mouth, not enough ears. Or in this case, big hands, small eyes. Go read up on the situation, and all of this is explained. In small words, even.
But I guess reading something instead of just frothing at the mouth at the very *idea* that something happened that doesn’t fit neatly into your precious personal universe would be too much to ask.
Go. Read. Be less of an idiot. I believe you possibly capable of two of these.
Whiskey: “A guy doesn’t like Muslims, I expect him to go after them. Not folks he supposedly likes, in a way guaranteed to discredit his cause. Crazy?”
Look at the comments in this post. This was guy who hated Labor just as much as every right-wing commenter here. He hated social democracy and social democrats, just as much as most of commenters here. And he killed their children, based on his ideology of hatred — which he shares with many of the commenters here.
It’s amazing how so many people here insisted it must be an act of Islamic terrorism, but as soon as its revealed to be an act of Conservative terrorism — committed by someone sharing your own ideology — suddenly you go into denial with conspiracy theories or insisting that it was a lone crazy.
It’s puzzling that so many of you disown this guy. How many times have thought or said, “Hey, we should kill all those lefties! Show them libtards who’s boss! If we can’t beat them at the ballot box, we’ll beat’em with the bullet box! Second Amendment Remedies, libtards!” Well, he carried it through. So why disown him?
A little self-reflection might be in order, don’t you think?
I salute you, sir, for you are not merely sane, but right. (And thus I also must apologize if you are not a sir.
)
Norge police say he faces a maximum of 20 years in prison–that is crazy–he should be hanged.
When Baruch Kopel Goldstein slaughtered an equivalent number of Muslims in Hebron at least the survivors killed him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
Fun factoid! We don’t have the death penalty in Norway!
Also! The last guy who was put to death in Norway? You’ve heard of him!
Name starts with a Q.
Personally, I think he should be let out on the main street with the parents of the kids he hurt and killed, to be torn to bits. Too bloody fast a death for the bugger, though… And yes, I am usually strictly opposed to the death penalty. Even a socialist has limits.
On the other hand, in Norway we have something called “Sikring”, which translates roughly as “securement”. He will be sentenced to 21 years. But he will never see the daylight again.
If you kill 90 unarmed people — most of them kids–you need to die
In 20 yrs this vermin will be released and be 52 years old.
What was his motivation?
“Sikring”. He will never walk out the prison gates. He will get a hearing every ten years to consider whether he is safe to be released.
He just killed eighty kids, all of them family or friends of family of Norway’s ruling party.
Do you honestly believe he will *ever* be released? I don’t. The biggest problem will be trying to keep him alive on the inside. If they even bother.
Of course, the leftist nomenklatura ruling Norway (and all of Europe) will see that he is convienently killed in prison (as he should be). But that is only because he killed LEFTISTS.
If you kill a non-left-wing politician, like Pim Fortuyn, the left-wing media elites make all kinds of excuses for you and you get a light prison sentence.
Eric R.
You are a despicable, hateful and destructive human being.
He killed eighty children.
As others have pointed out, with Norway’s population, this is the demographical equivalent of five thousand americans.
Do you think a murderer of five thousand children would have survived in an american prison?
What happens after 21 years (in Norway), Kristian? Does that mean a person would (ordinarily) be released? Did you mean that he wouldn’t make it out of prison, he’ll be killed? In Canada, a life sentence means “a life sentence” but that after twenty-five years a person may apply for parole. And there is such a thing as parole even before twenty-five years. But it does not mean that a person will normally get parole.
Robert, you mention Canada so I assume you’re Canadian like me. The “Sikring” that Kristian describes sounds very much like the Dangerous Offender designation that we use here. As you probably recall, people designated dangerous offenders like Clifford Olson or Paul Bernardo, while nominally sentenced to 25 year sentences and theoretically able to be paroled, are actually more-or-less in jail for the rest of their lives. Even after their nominal 25 year sentence has been served, they are evaluated every five (?) years to see if they are still dangerous to the public; if they are, they are kept in jail. Now, if they can actually convince the authorities that they are no longer a danger to society, they could, in theory be released. For instance, if Bernardo got ill and became a quadriplegic, his attorneys might argue convincingly that he is no longer a danger to society and obtain his release.
It sounds like the Norwegian “Sikring” is a similar idea except that the longest sentence possible is 20 years, not 25, and reviews are done every 10 years instead of every 5 as in Canada.
Perhaps Kristian can correct me if I’ve misunderstood “Sikring”.
Sounds about right. Don’t feel like looking up the exact details.
Kristian, I too am norwegian and have spent many years away from norway in australia. this allows me to view the politics overthere with a little less propoganda. What i have seen of norway is that the lean to the left for so long has left many citizens upset. the thing with rightwing people is they are less vocal than the loud left. the left make the loudest noise so they ar the ones that are most likely to be apeased. If you talk out agianst the left you are deemed politicaly incorrect.
Now the comparison of me to a nzi brown shirt is wrong, i hate hitler and all leftwing dictators. I lived for teh last 3 years in china and know what communism is, you have a bit of an idea to as you live in norway a country that has a strong socialist agenda. Pro global warming/climate change. It rewarded and american president witha nobel peace prize for the potential to do good. Its all feel good rhetoric that comes from socialists. but show me a country that socialism has worked and i’ll show you a country where people can dissent and voice their true opinion.
My partner is from hungary and she had lived through a communist regeme, so we are both very sceptical of anyone who embraces the left principles with no past exerience of living in that environment.
I am not a indoctorined american that beleives george bush did no wrong. However i do beleive that the communist/socialist philosophy can do no good. You have lived in an environment where people are fed up with the stutus quo, they are tired of the current political beleifs. I do not condone what has happend, but i do know that it was bound to upset someone some time.
Hitler, mao, stalin, che, pol pot were all communists with their own version of communism. Hitler viewed his as a nationalistic one (at odds with stalins internationalism) but still it was means to rule the country and then rule the world. show me a communist that doesn’t want all ecompasing power, its impossible. Leftwing right wing is a debate that is misrepresented by universities and media to preach to people that you can chose between hitler or the more friendlier green/socialist movement. That choice is incorrect. the tru choice is do you want to own your own land, make your own money and live your own life (right wing/capitalist/US under the republican party) or do you want to contribute everything to the state, rent the land, share the spoils and live off other peoples money and effort? this is what the left believe. share the money, share the wealth, share everything. except for the academics and the elite, they still get a little more than everyone else as they need it because they have to administer the BIG government and they know better so they should be recognised.
Norway has a wealth of recources, has a small population and the ability to live as an individual very well. work hard and you get payed. however, the people have seen that being taken away. given to the welfare, given to people who did not earn it. the left take from the right. the right have said this is not acceptable.
So a country that has done so much for socialism is now being shown that its not what everyone wants. I don’t condone the act, but i understand why he attacked that island. he wanted to stop a group think elitest youth meeting of people who have never lived a real life of finacial independence and hard work. instead they wantto contimue the hand outs and want to form enough solidarity to weather the movement against them.
I am not a hitler fan, as i hate all totalitarians, but i do beleive in making my money, making better for my family and earning what i worked hard to acheive. you leftwing sympathising uni students can fund your own lifestyle and keep your world dominating plans to organising your own life rather than tell me how to live mine.
You could just have written “I am a libertarian and enjoy fiction about people named for male norwegian pigs even though I am unaware that it is, actually, fiction.”
Or even just “I, libertarian”. It’s not exactly rocket science.
And since I find that libertarians tend to not like having their cosy little simplistic worldview overturned, I think I shall leave it at that. But do reply if you want to fence.
However, claiming Hitler as a Communist is a bit much. Now I can agree that the extreme right wing and the extreme left wing tend to overlap in their love for authoritarianism, but claiming Hitler as a Communist merely seems to be a rhetorical trick to then go on and claim that only the *left* is actually the problem, and that is, for lack of a less refined term, bullshi-ite.
And before you all attach me for claiming hitler was a communist, He did hate stalin so people claim he was anti communist. Remember that communists hated other communist. stalin had trotsky killed. stalin hated mao and did not believe in the same values. mao wanted china to be great. that seems more like hitler than stalin.
The difference between left and rihght boils down to – freedom of the individual vs freedom of the group. Stalin was losing the war to hitler until he began adopting a nationalist stance for russia. Russian didn’t want to die for the internationalist cause, but they started to win when he said “fight for mother russia”
Russia hated jews just as much. most of the concentration camps freed in the war were just handed over to the communists and they continued to persicute the disidents. Russia encroached on poland and forced poland to move it borders on both sides. So don’t attack me for not know what hitler was. he was the advisary of stalin, but since we teamed with stalin we can’t be seen to support a dictator. so lets point at hitler and hope everyone is too distracted by how horrible “right-wing” he was that we fear anything that has the true meaning of rightwing to it.
Have a look at how many nazi docs are on tv and you will see that they need to perpetuate the rightwing is evil -rightwing = hitler so we can’t be right. How many anti stalin docs do you see on tv. No you just get the motorcycle diarys and kids wearing che t-shirts, without knowing that these people killed homosexuals, closed schools and killed academics as they were a threat to the movement. If only the left were educated from the actual past and not the rewritten one, they could see where they are going.
So, your argument boils down to “Hitler fought communism, but so did other communists, so Hitler must be communist.”
And to claim that the difference between left and right is “freedom of the group vs freedom of the individual”…
If we were to liken left to right, I’d say that the left believes that your right to swing your fist ends where the other person’s nose begins, while the right believes that unless you are strong enough to defend your nose, you don’t deserve to have one, since the stronger person can surely find something better to use your nose for than what you had in mind.
And, lad, the reason you don’t get much video on stalin is twofold. One, the russians didn’t film a lot in those days. And secondly, if the US (who makes most of these movies) have to talk about Stalin, they might have to let slip the little fact that out of every ten german casualties during WW2, nine were on the eastern front. The US merely came in at the end and did some mopping up, and they don’t like this to be talked about.
(Doesn’t mean the US soldiers were bad or anything. Just means they got there late.)
So your difference between left and right is that left wont impact on others but the right can as they are trying to enforce their power on others?
I am wondering if you think that left are friendlier and nicer to people than the right? Do you believe the left are more compasionate and caring than the right?
The left have surley made there mark in history. the cilled millions of their own in russia, china, vietnam, cuba. even the african dictators have adopted a left policy to their leadership. They say it from the luxurious palaces wearing their gold chains and diamonds that they must have a reveloution against the capitalist right who exploit their people. I am not in africa, so i can not comment, but i do know that a dictator will use all means to get and keep control. whether its a ruthless fist for the good of the people of course.
The US is not excused from this. the world is all moving towards a world government. the EU is an example of centralising control and making the people of the world all equal. What has this equality created in china. I had to work with people who had been brought up during the cultural reveloution that working hard is a waste. just do the movements, appear busy and you get to reap the group reward, a bowl of rice and red book. Now the youth in china are now woirking their butts off as they know that if you make it you will be rich and you can look after your family, wife and wifes family.
If china hadn’t adopted the principles of the right then it would be a mess. Why do you think that mao invited nixon to visit china? Surely a republican rightwing president couldn’t have anything to offer a communist regeime? Maybe because no one wants to be left wing, no one wants socialism (aside from people who want the money for not working themselves).
How many countries that were communist, that are no longer communist want to go back or have gone back? You don’t have productive people move slowly towards socialism without a government stealthy doing it. Socialism is kept in place by fear. Fear of what will happen to you and your family. My partners neighborhood was full of scret police informants. Why, because they had dirt on them, which inturn was used to get dirt on others. Sounds like a utopia to me. Live in your socialist nirvana, but don’t come asking for my handouts. but then again the left don’t ask. they just intimidate and the fist that you say stops at my nose keeps coming at fullforce and i then get reported in the media that i am rightwing extremest for punching peoples fists with my head.
Kid… Socialism does not equal Communism. Left and far left is as different as right and far right. But if, as it seems you do, you do not accept that there *is* a far right, merely a right, a left and a far left, this of course makes no sense.
But, as a counterexample, did you know that less than a hundred years ago, in civilized Britain, if a coal-miner died in a work-accident, his wife would get his pay *up to the moment he died*, and no more? And would also be thrown out of the company house she leased from the mine owners?
I would like you to explain to me how that is somehow the far left working, and not the far right.
ok kristian, since i am a 33 year old kid with only the life experience of living in 4 different continents and working in all of them for an extended period, both for myself and for companies. please explain to me your idea of:
- far left
- left
- right
- far right
i would honestly like to know what it is you think. you must be so much older and wiser than me and have had so much more life expeirence and travel than me.
I asked first. Be a polite kid and answer the question.
Ok the rights of the individual were disregarded. That was the reason why unions could get a foot in the door. just like they did at the eureka stokade here in australia duringthe gold rush era. the rights of the miners were disregarded. But the left use the cruelty and misfortune of people to start a reveloution to inforce a new form of misfortune.
I do not agree with the big companies creating an awful work environment and that is why i am pro work choice and individaul bargaining for your AWA’s with an indepandant board to appeal to for your rights. But the unions how are supposed to be for the people/workers are siding with the far left and supporting the move towards closing down coal mines, closing down powerplants, closing down the jobs that their paying memebers work for. that is the far left acting in the best interest of them selves and not the worker. So the left and their pro worker have forgotten what they actually stood for, or more likley saw an opening for a reveloution and saw an easy way to climb to power. look at how many socialists have joined the green movement here in australia. The socialists have no respect for the environment. they have done just as much damage to it as the businesses have. butg the difference is the left don’t create jobs, they only create dependants. the right create jobs, but i agree can take things too far. however, the side of the fence i’d rather be on is a little right of center than left of it.
Thats probably how you would like it too. as you are probabaly a unistudent, civil servant, some form of goverment dependant. Glad i no longer pay tax to norway. though my money is most likely wasted just as badly here in Oz.
Now what is your idea of:
- far left
- left
- right
- far right?
I’ll see what I can do post-sleep. It’s been a long day.
I believe I can find a great many people working in health-care, road-maintenance, schools and other “left-wing” state-sanctioned non-private jobs who will happily kick your ass for claiming that they are merely “dependants” who don’t have a “proper job”.
Kristian H. You have been both patient and edifying to this audience. Everything you said rings true and carries weight beyond your years. Not withstanding the direction of your comments, anyone with eyes is well served by them. In my own life and without exception, the persons most injured by terrible events are usually at a disadvantage to express themselves in the moment and even if they are able, are loath to. The person to whom you directed your comments seems very, very, engaged, eager even. The only thing lacking on her part is sincerity and so, I think, rather than caring, makes a claim to caring. If so, what of it? We are the beneficiaries of your perspective.
Beyond that, I offer this: Heinous crimes against the innocent can never be justified, as you know. But there is also danger in confusing a need to understand what makes a killer or a terrorist vs. seeking an understanding of their self-perceived reasons or grievances or, at worst, understanding their point of view. I suspect that your comment was meant to direct the reader toward the inevitable, as you see it. Likewise, there is no point in offering lip service to the endless list of complaints or injustices that rank killers feel elevates their standing beyond their victims.
The word NAZI comes from the National Socialist Party. kristian h, you had it right.
kristian h, Finally a word of sanity from somebody about a really sad situation.
And now the information starts to flow about our little maniac’s life on the ‘net.
He speaks of the need to save Western Civilization from the muslim threat, and from the communist threat. And of how the bad europeans want to crush the Jews. Multiculturalism he uses as if it was a bad word.
In fact, the only thing he said that I haven’t heard parrotted in this den of iniquity these last hours is the screed about “Humanism’s suicidal ideals”. But then, that might just be a case of words that are hard to spell.
“And of how the bad europeans want to crush the Jews. Multiculturalism he uses as if it was a bad word.”
Ah, so we knew that sooner or later, you Norwegians would find a way to drag Jews into this and blame us.
And now, you Norwegian Nazis will find a way to provide even MORE support to Hamas and Fatah so they can shoot and blow up Jewish children.
That’s how sick you Europeans are – a Norwegian kills a Norwegian, and its the Jews’ fault.
Ummm, the guy did that himself. There is no getting around the fact that his ideology is founded on Fjordmanns teachings about the need for a war against the traitors of the white race, and that this ideology is strongly pro-zionist. The irony is that most of those people will in secret admit they are pro-zionists because it would “remove the jews from the west”. See Robert Spencer and his serbian friends, or Vlaams Belange, or EDL.
“The irony is that most of those people will in secret admit they are pro-zionists because it would “remove the jews from the west”.”
So you’re saying that, if your neighborhood is flooded by muslims that have a culture that conflicts with the local culture in every way and refuse to integrate or co-exist, then these people become White supremist pro-zionists that want to get rid of the Jews?
Call me crazy but I think they’re more concerned about the deterioration of their neighborhoods, and the fact they have to appease their new guests with ever increasing demands that cause discomfort and force changes on their own culture when the reverse is what is usually expected from immigrants.
You are false Norwegian and an idiot.
And you madly raving countryman Kristian is a cretin as well.
Are you blaming all the conservatives in the US and Europe for the deeds of one madman who just happen to call himself a right-winger?
He could call himself as well a MARTIAN. It wouldn’t matter.
Let me remind you that Mehmet Ali Agca, the terrorist who assassinated the Pope John Paul II was a member of an ultra-right Turkish organisation Grey Wokves. As it came out later, he was controlled by the Bulgarian Secret Services which in turn were controlled by the Soviet KGB.
If Brevik is a madman, he is most probably controled by someone else who has convinced him and persuaded him to commit that heinous act.
And even if he acted alone, to what degree I, a staunch conservative who hates socialists, am responsible for that?
I also read Fjordman, Spencer, Geller and amny others and I have NEVER seen any encouragement from them to commit any act of violence towards anyone.
On the other side I have seen many, many acts of violence commited by the world’s socialists including those in my native Poland.
Not to mention those 17 000 terrorists act commited by the islamofascists.
ONE act of terror commited by the self-appointed right-winger against 17 000 acts of terror comited by the Islamists.
How do they compare to each other?
Would we be calling it an Islamo-fascism terrorism if some lunatic that calls himself a Muslim commited just one, single act of terror during lats ten years?
Appart from that, those are the conservatives who would be demanding (or are demanding) that the BEAST be put to death. Regadless of his associations.
Those are you, socialists who will show a hipocritical leniency towards the mass-murderer because it will give you an opportunity to binge on the tragedy of those innocent children while sallivating yourselves over your own alleged “humanitarianism”.
And you will, certainly, use that atrocity to smear the opposition, conservative party of Siv Jensen which is slowly gaining on popularity.
One is sure; We cannot expect that the Norwegian socialists who are at the power now will give us an honest account in relation to all the circumsatnces surroundding that monstrosity.
You have comprehension issues.
The Murderer stated that the bad Europeans wanted to kill all the Jews, therefore he had to kill the Children.
Multiculturalism is a relatively new social engineering concept that has only been practiced by primarily white judeo-christian societies in the west. Just go to Japan, China, Iran, or Saudi Arabia and see what they think of multiculturalism. It’s hard enough just to get in, much less become a citizen.
It would be ridiculous to say multiculturalism is “GOOD” or “BAD” because you have to look at each individual culture and then determine whether they integrate, co-exist, and contribute to the existing society. One thing has become painfully obvious, Islam is NOT GOOD in terms of multiculturalism. Islam is not just a religion, but a political ideology that contradicts almost everything in western societies; even their weekend is Thu-Fri instead of Sat-Sun. They are taught to hate the population of their host country, their food has to be halal (it’s an insult to even have non halal food in the same building), a muslim cashier is committing a sin if she handles a hermetically sealed package of pork, they stop for prayers 5 times a day, muslim men rape local women because without burkas they’re considered sluts, and the list just goes on and on. Yet the left wing progressives insist on flooding our neighborhoods with more and more muslims.
If your 12 year old brother or son was beaten, stabbed, pi$$ed on, set on fire and left for dead by a group of muslims, how would you feel about multiculturalism? If a female member of your family was raped by muslim or gang of muslims, how would you feel about multiculturalism?
The sad thing about this atrocity is that if the left wing social engineers continue to flood western countries with muslims that refuse to integrate or co-exist with the existing culture, this is only the beginning of much worse scenarios to come.
Kristian,
I give you credit for standing your ground. Since I posted some speculations at the start of this thread before the actual facts were uncovered, I would like to set the record straight and then add a few comments to your assertions. I am sure the real horror is sinking in now and I will hold you impartiality regarding the terrorist whether he were a radical Islamist or is a right wing Norwegian nut case who will never walk the streets of anywhere again.
First, more than three terrorist groups from the Middle East have publicly declared their intention to strike Norway and one claimed responsibility within hours of the attack. Sweden has already been hit as well as there being a long history of attacks in Europe. Gaddafi said he would hit Europe too. He once blew up a German night club. In Spain we saw a deliberate attempt by AQ to influence the election. Again in England. There have also been a string of attacks with Turkish soldiers coming under fire, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Putting aside any claim you may have blaming the US (indirectly) for these terrorist threats, you can hardly convince most Westerners that the threat is a farce or that an informed scientist wouldn’t bet (without details and based on what I stated above after two hours) that the hand of Jihadists were behind the attack.
Now that we know more, and I did not dispute any information as it dribbled out, the terrorist was a Norwegian right wing extremist. Please don’t forget several important facts. 1. The US was not “behind” this attack nor have I ever heard any American conservative or republican leader calling for the murder of Europeans. How counter-productive could one get? Nor have I heard any Christian leader in the US calling for such criminality. You will not be able to offer ANY proof that what a Norwegian did to Norwegians is directly connected to mainstream leadership in the US. Americans are almost 99.99 opposed to right wing venom involving homicide or sexual assault. Are there asses who post hateful comments? Yes, but then all you have to do is to visit the reputable site MEMRI and read what “leaders” say around the world (an inordinate number being radical clerics and Muslim politicos/professors etc.). To suggest we are some RIGHT WING country as we keep acid out of the faces of Afghanistan women is slander and I rather doubt Norway would have gone there if there was no justification. Would you suggest we were responsible for 9/11? And does your leadership agree?
The events in Norway do not lessen the reality of threats. Rather, now the threats include Norwegian right wing extremists of rather low IQ (considering the results this violent act will produce for their pathetic aspirations). As a false flag, this is worse than amateur, but as insanity, the madman certainly killed many single-handedly. Again, I feel awful about the loss of life of your fellow citizens and I can empathize since I live not far from the former WTC. This moment of pain ought to transcend the partisan bickering, but you have interjected many biting partisan remarks. You were defending yourself however and some of the remarks made by others, I find objectionable as well. America is a friend to Norway and if you wanted an echo chamber for your political views, you could have spent your time at DemocracyNow or CommonDreams. Even the Socialist Worker would have applauded ALL of your remarks. I have my reasons for posting here, but I am not clear what yours were.
And that gets me to your comments. Let’s go back to Hitler. You do understand that socialism and communism when invented were just two close points on a common continuum? I am not talking about the present of course. Communism was socialism on steroids and quickly the two ideological camps split up. Note anthropological science tells us that proximate groups are most likely to compete for dominance than more distant groups. I say this because I hope we share the same rationality grounded in the scientific method. Today’s conflicts do indeed involve human nature and the dynamics of cooperation -without which civilization stumbles badly. Hitler hated Stalin while pretending he had sympathy for socialism and Stalin hated Hitler and pretended he had sympathy for communis,. It was all a farce as both leaders were despicable fascists, with Stalin proving he was more pragmatic and clever while Hitler squandered having prototypes for cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and jets before hostilities he initiated even began. Lucky for us he was insane. The point is that your distinguishing between Stalin’s ideology and Hitler’s is rather meaningless. There were from the same totalitarian camp and their “socialism” and “communism” weren’t much different.
The roots of Liberal Democracy arising in America and Europe was much different than socialism. Liberalism ends where illiberalism begins. You can cheat and try to change what Liberal means, but women’s rights, minority rights, individual rights and a strong wall between religion and State lay at the foundation of Liberal Democracy. Now you can say those that invented such a polity had slaves and that women weren’t allowed to vote etc, but as Barry Rubin has discussed, that simply means we must be better at enforcing our principles rather than accepting the illiberality of others. Making all things equal at the lowest denominator is hardly what Liberal Democracy is about.
And that gets us to the heart of the debate. Centrists in America are indeed Right of Centrists in Europe, although as you yourself observed, not as much regarding social liberality, but rather in economic and national security aspects as well as the government being the primary solution and the responsibility for regulation of matters that have a collective liability. centrist are not mostly Libertarians by the way. Centrist tend to be moderate Republicans and Democrats who are strong on national security and agree with the general Liberal Consensus shattered by partisan division over the Vietnam War.
Norway doesn’t have the diversity or size of America. You were blessed with free manufacturing of fish and energy which you pump and sell. America has to drive a huge economy to maintain our per capita and you just need to net and drill. It would be impossible for China, Russia, the US use your model which does give rise to your current political thought. China’s political thought arises from their unstable past and sheer size, not to excuse their use of judicial torture and lack of personal freedom.
So in brief, Europe and Norway have moved towards socialism. In an effort not to become illiberal Democracy, Europeans tends to stretch the meaning of liberal to the breaking point. The Liberals in the US do much of the same thing. They call for every ouster of Pro-US despots and ignore the atrocities of those who replace them and those governing places like Syria, Sudan and Iran. What do you care if NK gives a nuke to Iran who gives it to Hizb’allah who then has a shady sister group deliver it to a target? Past history did not have such threats. Imagine Oslo the victim of that?
If a coal miner died from his work, is it far left, not to have supplied him a pension? No, socialists would have owned all the mines and undoubtedly supplied him some pension while collecting dues so the bosses could stay rich. Let’s not play a useless game. The Right isn’t opposed to pensions or even Medicaid, but argue that it should not be run by government but rather by private groups with government regulating and recording the transactions. Here we steal from the tax revenues to redistribute it to the poor while the safety nets themselves run into bankruptcy. How brilliant is that? Europe in fact, has rejected Obama’s stimulus approach. Certainly untargeted stimulus was a folly. As we see in the Auto Crisis, Unions were willing to lower their fantastic benefit packages when faced with unemployment. If manufacturers can’t compete, they don’t deserve to exist. There is much blame to go around with Unions and Corporations both failing the grade. In Europe there is the same fight about which direction to go in. Protectionism, unionism, huge benefits, etc. do not match real world competition. More socialist models tend to displace merit and market, reduce competition and subsidize weak industries. You can hardly say the EU is having a good time and one could find Norwegians a bit arrogant when comparing their fortuitous situation with others. In fact, if other’s great industrialism weren’t so strong, the price of oil and Norwegian wealth would fall.
As for Norwegian history in the defense of freedom, I will leave aside. Now is not the time to be knocking the Norwegians. I will say, your dismissal of the tremendous modern threats to Liberty and the recent struggle of the Cold War in which we spent trillions in the defense of Europe, is foolish. You could easily be speaking Russian or German and your wealth redirected to Moscow or Berlin.
It was also not very nice to interject Israel into the thread. How would Israel be responsible for the shooter’s behavior? If I were to point to many valid problems in the world and then murder someone, does that make the problems I pointed to less valid? What if the Shooter loved Obama? Should we be angry at Obama now? Your logic is very twisted on this point and Hitler was hardly a Christian. America had no problem fighting a “Christian” as we did in Serbia to help save Muslims. The greatest threat to Muslims are Muslims.
I hope that this terrible tragedy in Norway serves does not become your answer to the growing threat to Liberal Democracy particularly in Europe. Yes, there is a FAR RIGHT and we stand against it, don’t we? Creationism has no place in the science class room and there is no empirical evidence that a week old fertilized egg fits any definition of a “person” as protected in the US Constitution. No one has as yet taken a photo of the soul. Our Founders despite their faults did not think religion was the foundation of informed debate, They felt a rational discourse based on facts was the best approach.
We understand that not all Muslims are terrorists and that it is rather silly condemning Israel for being Jewish, -as silly as Egypt pretending not to be Muslim. The hardest thing for me to accept from your comments however, is that there is making all things equivalent. That is the lazy and false way out of a debate. The actions of a growing set of Islamists and their violent religious convictions is not equal to those you fear on the FAR RIGHT in the West. AQ and others have slaughter far more innocent in a a day’s work. American actions (when no one else had the power to act) however occasionally mistaken, are not the same as the actions of our mutual enemies. America kept England alive at the start of WW2 and the near destruction of Russia was brought on by their own duplicity. We supplied the Soviets as well, destroyed Germany’s attempt at the bomb and cracked the enemy code while defeating the Japanese largely due to our “string of pearls”. They failed to destroy us in a surprise attack and your remarks amazingly suggest we should have pre-empted them instead of getting slapped. You don’t even calculate the umber of dead Americans from an invasion of Japan when you denounce the use of an atomic bomb we warned japan was coming should they not surrender. I am sure the Japanese would not have wanted, in any case, speaking Russian today. Difficult questions do not reduce themselves in the way you suggest. No matter how much you wish the world would morph into your socialist paradise, the rules of evolution still apply. Cooperation requires punishment and enforcement of the rules. Rather than watering down what Liberal means so we can accept the illiberal, is not the solution. We must better ourselves and defend our principles. We need to push back at the extreme on the right and left, but never loose sight of what the most dangerous threats are. No matter the incredible murders in Norway, the threat remains primarily radical Islam, economic disorder in the West (largely based on rising energy costs that add to Norway’s wealth), and a Western society beginning to forget the principles of Liberalism at the expense of their own liberty and security. Nothing you can say will change that reality as you mourn your dead. In unity there is strength, and if we don’t bridge our differences and dispense with the BS partisan fighting, there will certainly be far more death and destruction to come our way.
My best wishes to the people of Norway and to the families of the fallen….
MAX NYC
I agree with a lot of what you say, but you’re wrong about the perpetrator of this incident. This is obviously a person that has been directly affected by muslim immigration. Regardless of his religion or whether he’s left or right, he attacked those he thought were responsible for the for the mass-immigration of muslims into western societies without the consent of those that would be affected. Politicizing is useless if you determine it’s part of your survival.
The left-wing elite that control Europe are determined to flood every country with muslims, yet the average citizen had no voice in this agenda.
This is only the first of many scenarios that will be exactly like this. Do you think people will sit idly by while their pension disappear and their social assistance system is bankrupt because muslims consider it Jizya as promised from Alla. The war has begun and this is the beginning. This guy will be a hero in the war against Islam.
You are at least trying, unlike most here.
I did not bring up stalin vs hitler. Others did. Their motivations for this are clear from their own writings. Now, Communism is defined by “Ownership by the people of the means of production.” It is that simple. Hitler neither by words nor actions worked for the nationalization of German industry. He was not a communist, in word or deed. Here endeth the lesson.
Neither was it I who brought Israel into the thread. As the evidence shows. As I recall, my *only* mention of Israel was in mentioning their murder of a person in Norway.
These strawmen now having been dealt with…
“The actions of a growing set of Islamists and their violent religious convictions is not equal to those you fear on the FAR RIGHT in the West. ”
No, you are right, they are not equal. The actions and consequences of the US right is *far, far worse* than anything yet done by the so called “Islamofascists”.
Neither in death-toll, damage to property, nor damage to the structure of civil discourse do Islamists measure up, even remotely, to the destruction dealt out, willy-nilly, by the american right.
Not “far right”. The Right of the Republican party.
“economic disorder in the West (largely based on rising energy costs that add to Norway’s wealth)”
Ha. Ha. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…
The economic disorder in the West is one of America’s own making. You gave your banks the chance to make lots of money while driving your economy into the ground, and they took it. And given the chance, which you seem hell-bent on giving them, they will do it again.
Not even to *mention* the current little bruhaha on the Hill, where the Republican Party are holding the economy of the entire world hostage, just so that no taxes are levied on themselves and their rich friends.
I shan’t even touch the idea of torching two entire cities of civilians in order to save the lives of your men of war, either of which would have been unneeded if the US had given Japan even the smallest way of saving face in surrender.
I’m getting a little sick of your rantings and blaming of everything on the American Republican Party. I’m willing to make amends here. I see your love for the left and the Islamofacists. I am willing to encourage all the left wing lunatics I know and any Moslem that I meet to emigrate to Norway. May you enjoy your multiculturalism, embrace it, love and flaunt it in our faces. Sooner or later all the people you are bating on this blog will wind up being right. Your cities will burn, you will live in fear. Just remember Paris and how it was burning due to the 10% minority which live there.
We had our Timothy McVey, now you have yours. Other than that you are just hot air being squeezed out of a balloon.
You state not what I am wrong about, you throw the ad-hominem around like it was going out of style, and then you join in the Schadenfraude for our dead. Classy and utterly devoid of content.
Yes, the Republican Party has become its own little doomsday cult. If that hurts you, do something about it.
Kristian, your arguments stem out of pure emotion which is the last refuge of the defeated. I would love to debate you on the atributes both good and bad of the Republican party. So far you have offered nothing substantive as an argument instead you resort to sniping and name calling. That’s not rational argument.
I have to say that I see the above in the arguments of my Liberal friends. They too are devoid of any logic reasoning and result to sniping and naming calling. Finally they will walk out of our debates as if they were a virgin who just had her butt pinched.
Norway is fat now like an over fat stear. She can afford the burden of importing the useless, the insolent, and the unforgiving. Its like watching France some thirty years ago. Ask the average French man what he really feels today and you will get an answer that will surprise you. Many of the people giving those answers were Socialist some thirty years ago. Today they are Realists. They don’t have to subscribe to any political party; but their answers ring strongly Conservative.
Granted your shooter, in my opinion, was insane; however, if you examine his ideology you will find it strongly right wing. I understand that about half the people in Norway think that way. If this rings true, what needs to be examined is what is making these people angry. Despite your Socialist thinking, it might be a good idea to just listen to what they have to say if for no other reason to avoid another scene like this last one. Right now there is nobody listening to them, there is no shared concern, and there is no compromise. Socialism’s major flaw is ruling for the good of the people without listening to their wants and concerns. Obama is a good example of this statement. That’s what caused the major whip lash in the last election. As time goes on in Norway, the fishing stocks will diminish, the oil will run out and Norway will find itself overextended. How do you think your people will react to their multiculturalism when that happens. They will have imported their own burden and want to be rid of it.
“Your arguments stem out of pure emotion which is the last refuge of the defeated.”
This really should have come *before* your last screed about how you’ll tell all crazy lefties and muslims you know they should move to Norway.
But seeing as projection is not so much rampant around here as it is the new normal, I appreciate your self-understanding and accept your surrender. Your penance is to go to the library one day each week for a year.
So far I’ve heard the island’s mass murderer described as an ethnic Norwegian Christian Right Winger.
And I hereby bet every cent I will ever own to a plugged Nickle he’s a feller who’s discovered that the “supremacist” part of “____________ (Fill In The Blank – “white?”) supremacist” is more attractive to him than is the filled-in-blank part. And has become am islamanazi supremacist!
“…the island’s mass murderer described as an ethnic Norwegian Christian Right Winger.”
Even if you are pro-abortion, pro-evolution, pro-gay marriage and worship Satan (or are atheist or agnostic) but you disagree with mass-immigration of muslims into western countries, then you will be labelled “Christian Right Winger”. Just learn to live with the label.
If you have any questions, just ask Kristian! He, she or it seems to be the expert on this forum.
I resent when Nazi’es are called right wingers. I’m as right wing as you get with regard to economic policy, military policy and the justice system. Honestly I would have a hard time even explaining where exactly Nazi’es share principles with conservatives and free market capitalists.
Nazi’es are crazies that believe in ridiculous ideas such as purity of blood and white supremacy. They are nationalists with anger issues, lack of empathy and a fetish for violence and military hardware.
If you consider yourself politically conservative then get used to being called a Nazi. Left wing liberals don’t even know what the word means, but if you disagree with them on any given subject then they will call you a Nazi. This is a debate stopper because you are immediately a megalomaniac mass murderer regardless of your opinion on other critical political matters.
The word is actually derived from the German word “NAtionalsoZIalistische” which in English mean National Socialist, which was the name of Hitlers political party. I’ve capitalized where the NA and ZI come from. The word is so improperly used now that it’s almost become redundant.
You obviously have more road to travel on your road to the Right. Stop kidding yourself. Hitler was no socialist or Communist which are both on the Far Left. He was a fascist like Stalin. They both killed off and religious or political debate on that accusation. I don’t see why you have such a hard time understanding that. Look to your Right….maybe you can see the Supremacists. The Islamist radicals are fascists too. Their Doctrines are just fronts as the behavior defines what people are. You make it rather easy for Kristian to mow you down……
Did you know Republicans were the anti-war part if the 1930′s?
Can you at least structure your post into a pattern of successive coherent thoughts.
“They both killed off and religious or political debate on that accusation.” I don’t even know what that sentence means. I can try to extrapolate but I’d prefer you just say what you mean.
Your ignorance is not an excuse. You know nothing of the nazis except that they were Bad, Evil and they Hurt Jews. Hence, you believe that as long as you Support Jews, whatever Jews do, you are Ipso Facto Not Bad.
Your ignorance is not an excuse. You know nothing of the nazis except that they were Bad, Evil and they Hurt Jews….
What sickening tripe…you say ‘hitler was only ‘hurting’ Jews…?
Heh, you can’t even type out the TRUTH is very telling of your feeble mindset and explains your mealy mouthed comments/thoughts.
Yet you hold the deaths of YOUR country’s children, and as awful as that is, as comparable to over 6 million Jews and 6 million others, just sickening.
What’s wrong with you?
Beslin kids suffered as well, may they all R.I.P.
You know, this kind of thing is why Glenn Greenwald writes like a waterfall with mouth-diarrhea. One assumes one is talking to adults, and then someone comes along and throws a spurious assault on grounds of one didn’t write out the full “Murdered six million jews (as well as six million gays, wanderers and gipsies, among others) and this was a truly heinous crime which must never be forgotten”.
And then they turn around and cry about Political Correctness.
*sigh*
By the way, Kristian, Nazi stands for National Socialism.
Give it up! Someone already pointed that out, but he’s convinced that Hitler was a right-wing, conservative, Christian, capitalist and an inspiration to W. Bush. Never mind that the Volkswagen was the first and only SOCIALIST automobile developed in human history.
The left wing liberals love to use the words “fascist” and “Nazi” when ever they disagree with someone, even when they don’t know what they mean, because it sounds EVIL.
Watching PBS Newshour and they referred to this act as terrorism. How come it’s not terrorism when Israelis are killed and their throat slashed?
The media is controlled by left-wing liberals so any atrocity committed against the Jews is brushed under the rug. Any event that may inspire sympathy or compassion of the viewing audience towards the Jews, contradicts their agenda and is therefore not news worthy.
The Palestinians can fire 1000 rockets into Israel without a peep from the MSM, but if Israelis board a ship with Paint-guns and get beaten with Iron bars then they are the most evil of all humanity.
I wish that people would cease and desist from using ‘distractions’ when commenting upon a SPECIFIC situation.
This was evidently an atrocity perpetrated by a neo-Nazi. Period. Exclamation point.
He has single-handedly done more damage to the legitimate worry about Islamic Terrorism than I would have thought possible. And arcane discussions about whether the NSDAP was ‘left’ or ‘right’ do nothing to illuminate the problem here.
This guy is the poster child for a real problem. There is NO difference between what he did and what other terrorists do, in just the same way that there is no difference between ‘conservatives’ and ‘liberals’ who cannot or will not see that blind knee-jerk belief systems are incredibly stultifying and dangerous. The reason that I detest the MSM and the prevailing ‘liberal’ viewpoint is that it is not ‘liberal’ at all. It is merely orthodox and immediately consigns to heresy any thought or observation that does not accord to its unthinking value system. I have come to the regrettable conclusion that ‘conservatives’ are by and large no different in their approach. They also don’t look at a situation in an effort to see the TRUTH of it, but just like the current template, look at a situation in an effort to make it fit what they want it to be. All you have to do is witness some of the incredible logical gyrations invoked in any discussion to see that no deviation from the ‘accepted’ is ever very well received. Replacing the current norm with an equally ‘bad’ norm is simply not acceptable.
I am frankly shocked that this man even exists, never-mind that he was willing and able to conduct such a vile action to further his nutbar ideas. ALL people should just condemn him to hell, and leave it at that. Marking him down as ‘insane’ is also the coward’s way out here. I don’t think he is insane at all. Or at least not insane as we understand it.
He’s a FANATIC. And he is something that we all must take note of when we begin to feel that it’s our way or the highway, each and every time.
He is an aberration to be sure, but he’s also a HUGE blinking warning light. This is what happens when reason goes out the door and faith stays behind. In his mind, and also to be blunt in reality, what he did was ‘logical’. Once you accept his structural premises.
This should be a big wake-up call to EVERYONE. It won’t be of course, and that’s a real shame. Because it’s not just the very rare complete meltdown that is the real problem. It’s the fanaticism and TOTAL lack of empathy for the ‘other’ that is the issue. To be honest this has been a bit of a shock to my system and it should be a shock to others, of ALL persuasions.
The scary part is that instead of targeting the muslims, he targeted those responsible for the mass-immigration of muslims. I would speculate that he or his family have had a bad experience related to that agenda.
“The scary part is that he didn’t target the muslims.”
The *scary* part was that he killed 90+ *people*, most of them children.
For the rest of you: If you know this commentor, or have information on this commentor, please inform your local authorities immediately.
He is scary.
Looks like he’s one of your own, people. How does it feel to know you’re merely the opposite side of the coin of Al Qaeda and their followers?
Yes I am the opposite side of the coin! If you dump a load of muslims in our neighborhoods and expect us to be second class citizens because muslims are superior to us, and our women are sluts because they don’t wear a burka, then YES if find offence in that and I will fight FIRE WITH FIRE! So fu_k YOU!
Well considering I live in the US, and the Muslim population doesn’t even make up 1% of the population, I’m not worried about such things.
How many of these horrible Muslims were targeted in this attack?
NONE!
The people targeted were responsible for them being there in the first place.
What was your question again?
80 children aged 15 to 18 on a summer camp were responsible for muslim immigration and thus it is acceptable and right that they died?
Thank you. Your input has been noted.
NO! It’s not acceptable that 80 children died! But this would have never happened unless you left-wing liberal insisted on dumping loads of muslims into neighborhoods that had no choice about the circumstances they were confronted with. People are fed up with this bull-shit and you will see much more of the same.
Do we relinquish our own culture in favor of Islam? Do we sit back and watch as our brothers being beat’n and killed because that’s their agenda? I’m sorry but I will not submit to this bull-shit but people like you are the very ones that were targeted in this atrocity, and having read all of your posts, I can understand why. People like you create an environment where others are beaten, raped or killed, but when someone lashes out against you, you call him a crazy right wing radical. Just be thankful you’re still alive, for the time being anyway.
You will retract your threat against my life and apologize.
There was no threat against your life, Kristian, just you being disingenuous again. I meant to remind the posters that Kristian (remember, his dirty sexual comments) reminds one of the angry and violent homosexual adult in Hubert Selby Jr’s. “Last Exit to Brooklyn”. If he weren’t able to feel he was demolishing each and every poster here, displacing his hostility, so to speak, what, in fact, would he be doing? There is certainly no sense that he is grieving for his people, no sense at all. Glad we can be of service, Kristian, to your wretched and miserable self. You have, after all, in spite of your obvious high verbal IQ, given yourself away.
I can understand the grievances people could have with Muslims and asylum seekers receiving generous state benefits and not assimilating. I can understand the grievances of a sliver of those people preaching extremist views while leeching off the state and the freedoms our society offers. However, the Muslim populations in most European states average at or below 5% of the total population. The freakout over the Muslims seems like a bit of overreacting and scapegoating for larger issues to me.
Yes Well…Muslims are living ob social assistance in Norway and ALL rapes in the last FIVE years have been committed by this very same group. The closest thing in America is Deerborn Michigan. How would an entire neighborhood become muslim? How many people had to leave to enable that to happen? Why did they leave? Do you really believe that muslims are here to integrate when they create neighborhoods that are exclusively muslim. Would you even venture into these neighborhoods as a non-muslim? In France people stupid enough to venture into the no-go regions are never heard of again.
Please! Go to Deerborn and let me know how well you’re received!
I have no reason to go to Dearborn Michigan. Even if I did go to that area, I’d be more concerned with the troubles in that pit known as Detroit that Dearborn happens to be a suburb of. Besides, many of the Arabs in Dearborn are Christian.
Look, everything you are saying about the Muslims can be applied to pretty much any immigrant group out there. You’ll get a percentage of those who will assimilate and you’ll have a percentage who don’t. With the percentage who don’t, chances are their offspring will assimilate.
Personally I feel if you don’t like the way of life a certain nation or people have, then you shouldn’t have any business migrating to where they live. However, I’m not going to jump to conclusions that these people have some agenda to take us over through immigration. If their own government, clergy, and social structure aren’t competent to truly address their needs, what makes you these same entities could create such an effective and cunning scheme?
We have to be careful here – it’s 100% of rapes where the perpetrator is identified. There might be non-Muslims committing rapes that go unsolved (either by chance or because the authorities care more about catching nonwhites than whites). I don’t think I’ve ever seen this question addressed, though. It doesn’t matter in terms of the overall point you’re making; just something I’ve been wondering ever since I first heard that statistic.
If muslims move into your neighbourhood, you will …move into their neighbourhood? Is this the fire you mean you will fight? Somehow I don’t think so.
OK! let’s just assume that in some point in history Deerborn was not an Islamic region. At that time there were NO Musims. Now the entire district is 100% muslim. What happened to the non-muslims that used to live there? Why did they leave the homes they grew up in? Do you believe that this is a good example to exemplify how well muslims integrate into their welcoming host country? Do the people that left have a story to tell? Why do muslims always take over a region and claim it as their own?
Come On Kristian! You always have an answer!
Yes. I do.
I wish you had better questions. Or, in your case, sanity, a conscience and basic ethics.
Considering the low percentage of muslims isn’t is curious that the first phone call that Obama made upon being anointed as President was to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt?
Oh, here we go with the Muslim Manchurian Candidate garbage. Where is your evidence of this?
OK I’ll bite, Who did he phone first?
I dunno, probably a Canadian or Mexican.
according to the arab news daily
“A Palestinian spokesman said that Obama had told Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas that he was the recipient of his first call as the 44th US president.
The White House source confirmed the calls, on condition of anonymity, and said Obama also telephoned Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Jordan’s King Abdallah.”
but maybe your guess is better than the actual truth?
Death count now up to 93, and Agence France-Presse story is now reporting the perp had been a member of a Swedish Neo-Nazi Internet forum since 2009.
This is the new face of right wing extremism in Europe.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/02/27/europe-s-extreme-righteous.html
What is most troubling is the very poor response by the Norwegian security forces.
The murder went on shooting for 90 minutes and it took the police 90 minutes to get to the scene
–that is truly pathetic.
Why are people debating Kristian, when it is obvious he/she is a Marxist? Would you debate a Nazi?
Well… I am debating nazis. Had you really not noticed?
As for “Marxist”… Do you even have a clue what that means, except as a “this one needs not be taken seriously, for in America! we shoot marxists.”?
Herr Kristian,
Why don’t you track me down in America and throw me in an oven?
You know you want to.
Ah, just a small point…
I actually voted for our ruling political party last election. So I am, if anything, an Arbeiderparti-voter. Same political affiliation as the ones slaughtered by your co-ideologist.
Now, would you like to know who else called us Marxists? Come on, guess.
“Mr.Kristian is just using this horrible event to spew his hatred of Americans…”
Yup.
The guy is a complete idiot, and a pathological liar as well.
IOW…a typical lefty.
You do have to laugh at Euros moaning about the slave system in America THEY created though.
That one is always good for a laugh.
Same with the other blather he’s blathering on about.
As much as Kristian hates America, being the good European Socialist (either National or International), his hatred of America pales in comparison to his hatred of what he sees as the real threat – Israel and Jews.
He (Kristian) even maintains that a Norwegian (presumably in Norway) was “murdered” by a member of the Israeli Secret Service (Mossad). Just like any hateful propagandist, when it suits him, he states as fact where research and a tenable conclusion is lacking. Of course, his use of this forum with his insane, high volleying commentary, is simply an effort to find an outlet and displacement for fear of what he really is. See my last comment for an explanation of that. I thought Maxtrue pretty much undermined whatever political analyses Kristian thought he was getting at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair
*We* even had actual trials for your Israeli terrorist friends. How about that.
You know, you could have googled “Mossad, Norway, Murder”, and you’d have found this. It’s not that hard, researcher.
As for your endless projection of your own penile fascinations, for someone who comes from a culture where “Horse-cock” is an often-used epithet which even the police have to accept as something they may be called in the line of work… You’re not that interesting.
“Pathological liar”: Someone who lies all the time, because they cannot help themselves…
Now… Next bit. The bit where you expose my lies.
Somehow, I feel you will never actually get to that bit.
“Someone who lies all the time, because they cannot help themselves…”
Yeah, like people who claim that they’re Norwegians when they really aren’t for example.
That would be an example of a pathological liar.
All lies, all the time.
But, that’s lefties for you.
*Patpat* I am sure if there were lies in what I have written, someone would have picked up on it. You lot sure have spent enough energy trying to discredit me. But somehow, so far, no-one has found anything. Could that be because there are no lies to find, merely things you all *wish* were lies?
“Yes, it is rather past my bedtime. That would be because I live in Norway, which is six hours ahead of you, oh dim-witted one.”
“July 22, 2011 – 11:04 pm”
That’s interesting. 8 A.M. (CET) is your bedtime, huh?
Funny, 8 A.M. is about when most people wake up. OTOH, 11 P.M. (Pacific time) is about when most folks are ready to call it an evening and grab some shuteye.
I have a feeling that this old boy might be somewhere other than sunny Norway.
It’s also kind of funny that you employ the American idiom so much. Don’t think I’ve ever met a Norwegian who did that. As a matter of fact, I know I’ve never met a Norwegian, or anyone else who spoke English as a second language, who did that.
I have a sneaking suspicion that you’re not being too honest about who you are and where you are.
And, then, of course, there are your other lies (typical lefty hogwash about imaginary genocides of American Indians carried out by the wicked United States, etc.).
Yeah, I think pathological liar pretty well sums it up.
Like all lefties…can’t tell the truth to save their lives.
Seeing as you are far more interested in “getting” me than in actually debating the point (or *any* point whatsoever), why exactly should I care what you think?
As yet another apologist for american right-wing evil, you suck at your self-appointed task.
Yes, I write very well. Thank you. I’ve been speaking, writing and reading english for twenty-nine years. I ought to be good at it by now.
Did you even notice the “well past” of my post? Yes, I’ve had trouble sleeping (you might want to look at the news for why, if you’ve forgotten yet again what we’re actually discussing), and hitting unintelligent, unscholed, uncultured american right-wing mouthpieces over the head with their own stupidity, blindness and lack of any actual knowledge of anything whatsoever has felt like a good way to spend these light-filled hours (midnight sun up here these days).
Now crawl back under your rock (after the ad-hominems and the inevitable paranoid screed, that is).
‘Seeing as you are far more interested in “getting” me’
Well, I do enjoy tweaking pathological liars and leftists (but, I repeat myself).
“Kristian”
“I’ll see what I can do post-sleep. It’s been a long day.”
“July 23, 2011 – 2:42 am ”
Long day? You’re going to sleep at noon, if you’re in Norway. Sounds like a real short day to me.
OTOH, if you actually were in say, California, instead of Norway, that would be a pretty long day. I know I start getting drowsy when it’s getting near 3 A.M. and I’m on the west coast of the USA.
Either you keep real odd hours, and have a funny way of phrasing things…or you’re lying about where you are.
I vote for lying, especially considering the other absurd nonsense that comes spewing out of your quasi-sentient brain.
I have to admit though, it’s pretty amusing listening to a lefty/socialist who’s ideological bedmates include Communists, Fascists and Nazis moaning about right wingers killing folks.
That gets a ten on my irony-o-meter.
“As yet another apologist for american right-wing evil…”
Yeah? What sort of evil would that be? Is it kinda like the evil your fellow socialists unleashed in the Soviet Union, the PRC, Cambodia, communist Vietnam? The sort of evil that results in tens of millions of innocent people being murdered in cold blood by the ever-benevolent socialist state?
Or, is it some other kind of evil?
I can hardly wait to hear exactly what it is that American right wingers have done that makes us worse than Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and a host of other socialist scum I could name, if I wasn’t afraid of getting carpal tunnel syndrome by typing out the names of all those murderous lefty thugs.
Seeing as I do not live in your fantasy world of left-wing nazis, and everyone except the extreme right-wing being Marxists…
I don’t think we have anything to talk about. You are insane *and* uninformed. It’s a bad combination.
Yes, it was a *very long* day. Man, you’re slow.
“Seeing as I do not live in your fantasy world of left-wing nazis…”?
Just about all lefties prefer to believe that. It’s a lot easier to believe that National Socialists aren’t REALLY socialists than manning up and admitting your ideological affinity with ALL the various flavors of totalitarianism.
I understand and sympathize. I’d probably do the same thing, if I was dishonest enough and stupid enough to be a socialist.
“I don’t think we have anything to talk about.”
Well, you’re obviously not on my intellectual level, if that’s what you mean. If only there was a way lefties could increase their I.Q. by 50 points, you might have a fighting chance at engaging in coherent discourse. As it is, you simply beclown yourself repeatedly. Oh well, such is life.
And, I’m still waiting to hear exactly what it is that right leaning Americans have done that equals the deeds of mass murdering socialists of the Marxist flavor (like the Nazis, they’re also your ideological soulmates, all totalitarians being pretty much cut from the same cloth).
I’m sure I’ll get an answer to that one, probably on the same day they install air conditioning in hell (that’ll be a good thing for lefties, btw).
And here I rest my case.
I have been asked by some people to write for norwegian newspapers about the views of the american right-wing and your fantasy-world of left-wing nazis, a europe about to implode because of islamic people, and in general your ideas that you are the last, best defence for Western Civilization because no-one else can see what you see. Because, you see, the murderer in Oslo was not insane. According to his world-view, which is *staggeringly* similar to the one you have shown here, what he did was the right and logical thing to do.
So where did he get his ideas? Who else on this poor globe thinks this way? And how do we make sure that they cannot spread such insane lies again?
When the US, like every other civilized country on the planet, at last bans hate-speech, you only have yourself to thank. I know that is an idea that cannot actually fit into yours heads. But it is nonetheless the truth.
So thank you. You have been the ugliest, craziest, most deluded audience a person could wish never to have to deal with.
The suspect has confessed to the murders–he said “it was necessary but unpleasant”
Norwegian bloggers are reporting that Breivik is the author of a blog called Fjordman and that he’s guest blogged for Atlas Shrugs, Jihad Watch and Gates of Vienna “for years.”
As Breivik, he publicly praised one of her posts. Elise Hendrick has translated a passage from Realisten which confirms that Fjordman and Breivik are one and the same:
According to his own statements, Anders Behring Breivik previously operated the blog ‘Fjordman’, and later wrote for many years under the pseudonym Fjordman for the anti-Muslim and Zionist blogs Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch.
The FBI and the intelligence community in the US and Europe is on this case like white on rice.
FM Lieberman is now wearing brown trousers — to disguise the stains
Proof?
Otherwise you’re just spreading rumors much like LSM does.
The FBI and the intelligence community in the US and Europe is on this case like white on rice.
Dunno why the FBI or any other branch of the US government would be the least bit interested in a Norwegian mass-murderer who committed his crimes in Norway and seems to have been motivated entirely by grievances against a particular political party in Norway, Victor. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If a request is made for help, I’m sure Norway will get it but this horror is all on Norway. No part of it belongs to the US. And as an American, I have to say I am revolted by Norwegians in this thread trying to give their homegrown monster an American face just to make themselves feel better.
Also, it pisses me off that people are comparing this attack to 9/11. If people must find an American context for this attack, the obvious one is Timothy McVeigh, not Al Qaida.
According to Pam Geller the shooter and Fjordman are not the same person. Fjordman blogs on Geller’s site Atlas Shrugs all the time and he was currently sitting next to her not in a Norweigen jail but in New York.
I would suggest you keep your nose out of Lieberman’s brown stained pants. It speaks volumes about you.
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman ashamed, Victor? Is he responsible for each and every pro-Israel blogger and every anti-Islamic blogger? Unless, of course, you think Jews are all powerful the way they are described in the “Protocols of Zion”. I don’t think so, however. Your “analysis” of the situation is more of a fantasy wish based on your lack of self-reflection and your inability to comprehend what your “perspective”, weak as it is, is based upon. If you would like to improve your comprehension, begin with a study of the Sociology of Knowledge and then continue on through to the Nature of Paradigmatic Shifts and, finally, Psychohistory. In the meantime, please stop revealing your considerable ignorance on this forum. It’s unbecoming.
Can we put the politics aside for a day or two, and devote some time to mourning for the victims and praying for their families?
Can you imagine what you would be feeling if YOUR child had been one of the victims of this monster?
It’s time to extend sympathy to our brothers and sisters in Norway, not squabble with them.
I paid $32.67 for a XBOX 360 and my mom got a 17 inch Toshiba laptop for $94.83 being delivered to our house tomorrow by FedEX. I will never again pay expensive retail prices at stores. I even sold a 46 inch HDTV to my boss for $650 and it only cost me $52.78 to get. Here is the website we using to get all this stuff, CentShack.com
jaafar: Can we put the politics aside for a day or two, and devote some time to mourning for the victims and praying for their families?
Ask that of the Norwegians who say this man only did what he did because he watched Glenn Beck on Fox News.
This evening my people are standing up to terror. Four days after the largest terrorist action in Norway’s history, one hundred and fifty thousand people have gathered in the streets of Oslo (a city of five hundred thousand). I am in awe of my countrymen. Of their bravery, their resilience.
As for you lot…
What? Because they “stand up” in a giant herd of prey? Are any of them armed? Do any of them actually intend to take ACTION to accomplish something? Or do they expect some young law enforcement or military person to get in the way of the next bomb or bullet? There’s a definite line between bravery and delusion. Stop standing and start doing.
Or, you could decide be act civil around here. You want respect? Give some. “As for you lot…” Really. What are you, sitting behind a computer and writing drivel online?
And let’s all “stand up” for peace? So how is derogating others working for peace? Hypocrite and coward, both.
“Civil”?
The very first commentor I replied to on this thread was *happy* that our kids were being killed, because now we would see how dangerous the “islamofascists” were, and how he and his ilk had been right all along.
And “bravery” is only when you have a gun in your hand? Yes, that is about what I expected from someone like you.
I have no need for respect from people like you. Do you honestly think I came here for *respect* from cowardly, child-killer-cheering brownshirts?
So, all in all, kindly take your “civil” and shove it up your whiny little coward’s ass. I’d call you a horsecock, but you don’t rate. We have a word for people like you where I come from. It translates as shitbag.
It suits you.
I read all the posts prior to your first. No mention of somebody cheering child killers. Your projection and anger are monumental, and you have invested in your need to blame America first instead of looking at how your own actions contribute to your problem. The rest of your rant must have been done while looking in your mirror. I feel sorry that your life is so meaningless, and you feel so helpless, that you must lash out at people expressing care and concern.
As you said in your first post: “Seek professional mental health. NOW!”
“I read all the posts prior to your first. No mention of somebody cheering child killers.”
Behold:
“#23, it seems that some 30 people may have been shot, in that camp.
Obama, and the rest of the West think that all we have to do is pull our troops out of the ME, make friends with the local mosques, be tolerant of cultural “differences” , and then rainbows will appear, and we will all end happily ever after.
There is a lovely word to describe my own feeling: schadenfreud.”
I present the evidence you didn’t see. Of course, this is likely because you cannot parse “Schadenfraude”. It is “Happiness that someone else got hurt”, or can also be translated as “they got what was coming to them”.
So, yes, cheering while our children were killed.
And *no-one* of your many co-ideologists on this thread have as yet said they were sorry and did not agree. The closest we came was “it may have been a bit harsh”.
You can now commence twisting.
I have no idea why you think Americans are supposed to tell you that we’re sorry, Kristian, but considering some of the first comments I read on this website after the attack were from you making accusations against the US for what this man did any temptation I may have had to express my condolences shriveled up and died. Especially since your hate-mongering against the US reminded me of all the other eruptions of virulent anti-Americanism I’ve seen come out of Norway the last 10 years. Your conduct here has been despicable, and the conduct of your countrymen ever since 9/11 (and probably earlier but I never noticed Norway before 9/11) has been despicable. But despite all that, I still won’t suggest Norwegians had it coming. Even though so many Norwegians told us Americans that we had it coming on 9/11. I think this man is a monster and that he deserves to die for what he did, and that there’s no justification for it.
Lad… The post you reply to… Go back and look at it.
It will tell you that the poster I originally replied to (see timestamps), expressed “shadenfraude” over the deaths of the kids in Norway. I have explained what that word means, and you can also look the word up for yourself.
I believe that poster (heathermc) is at a level of “despicable”… Well, I have expressed it quite clearly elsewhere.
So *that* is what I expect the *commenters on this blog* to say “We are sorry, we do not agree with this”, about.
And in case you’re an even bigger idiot than you seem (hard to believe, but still)… To check the chronological order of my responses (or anyone’s responses), you have to look at the time-stamps, not the order they show up in on the page.
And yes, I see you have already made this error in your definition of which is my “first post”. Congratulations, you have exceeded my expectations.
I did a search on your first post, and scrolled up from there, reading along the way.
Thanks for sharing. You are a shining example of why socialism is a nihilistic creed. Are you enraged enough to perhaps shoot some American children now? Maybe bomb the American embassy? People like you are the reason people like me need to own guns.
I will assume for now that you are an aberration, kind of like a junior Breivik, and that most Norwegians are decent people.
Have a nice life, such as it must be for you.
Aaand… he runs away. Not having debated the point. Did you read 67 at all?
And you clearly stated “As you said in your first post: “Seek professional mental health. NOW!””
The post you here label my “first post” was not my chronological first post.
Why is it that a supposed “Medical Researcher” is not to be found on either Google Scholar nor PubMed, even as a reference, by the way? Might it be that your research and reading -skills are so poor because you merely claim to be a researcher?
It seems my “actually having a clue”-fu is way too strong for the sensitive right-wingers here.
(Cue next ad-hominem screed)
Didn’t Norway give the Nobel Prize to some intellectual who made a name for himself by “proving” the US deserved to be attacked on 9/11?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Pinter
If we go through the backgrounds of the people who’ve gotten Nobel prizes in recent years and we are able to show that there’s a distinctive pattern (or as some would say a taint) do we get special “actually having a clue” credit?
Nope. You get zero points.
He has a nobel prize. In *Literature*. This prize is given out by *Sweden*.
Excuse me while I laugh at you.
Nope. You get zero points.
You wish. I don’t accept decrees from people who live in Marxist countries that have a population smaller than a Los Angeles suburb and I’ll award myself as many clue-points as I want. That’s the American way.
He has a nobel prize. In *Literature*. This prize is given out by *Sweden*.
He was awarded the prize not for his literature, but for his high profile and obnoxious baiting and bashing of the United States over the 9/11 attacks. And the only reason Sweden awarded the prize is because the Swedes are the “award” perpetrators for all but the peace prize. It doesn’t change the fact that all swedes and norwegians are engaged in a conspiracy to reward proper marxist anti-imperialist thinking with an allegedly “prestigious” international award. Y’all even gave Obama a peace prize just because he’s black and promised to take America down a few notches for you. Which, by the way, he has done! He merits another prize now, doesn’t he? Or maybe you’ll give yourselves the prize this year? Actually I wouldn’t be surprised if Anders Behring Breivik got the Nobel Peace Prize himself this year. Didn’t Yassir Arafat get the Nobel Peace Prize for acts of terrorism and mass murder? But his victims were Jews, so I guess it’s entirely different isn’t it?
Excuse me while I laugh at you.
And you wonder why nobody in this thread is standing in line to tell you how sorry they are about what happened…
Awww, how cuuute.
Kid, I am of the same political denomination as the murdered children. You just called me the same thing the killer called them. “Marxist.” You might want to think about that.
“I’ll award myself as many clue-points as I want. That is the american way.”
Instead of actual achievement? Yes, that sounds about right for someone like you. Well, not for the american way. But for the right-wing “we are right, you are wrong! Because!”-way? Oh hell yes, that sounds right.
And between someone who laughs at you because you behaved like an idiot, and someone who cheers a child-murderer, you chose the cheerer. Yeah, I am *so* wrong about the american right wing.
Now you add threats to your insults? And you’re telling me not to call you a marxist just because the victims of this crime were marxists? This attempt at thought-control on your part proves that you ARE what you just ordered me not to call you. And now after all your smartass challenges and your taunting of people for not having any rebuttals for your idiotic claims, you seek to win the argument through verbal intimidation? You’re really making a case for Norway’s cultural values here, aren’t you? And that was sarcasm, by the way. I know you Scandinavians are a bit challenged when it comes to use of language. Hence, the awarding of a Noble prize for literature to somebody whose greatest accomplishment was ranting about the US like a 10 year old on a school playground.
I do not discuss things with incoherent idiots. Only with coherent ones. You just went well past that line.
Read again. You’ve got the wrong end of the wrong stick. Or possibly you’re talking to the Islamofascist pixies. With you lot, who can tell?
Neeext!
Ad-hominem, random factoid, get slapped over the head, more ad hominem while running away. You know the drill by now, no?
And, I’m STILL waiting to hear from Kristian, the supposed Norwegian, exactly what is that we right wing American “brownshirts” have done that even begins to compare with what his socialist brethren (like Mao or Stalin) have done.
And, I have a feeling I’ll be waiting forever.
Your defence has come down to “We’re better than Stalin and Mao”.
High aspirations. You has them.
Goodbye.
That’s pretty much the size of it all right.
Evil American right wingers, like myself, are infinitely superior to socialist scum like Mao, Stalin…and you.
If you don’t believe that’s true, then simply list the evil deeds carried out by American right wingers and we’ll compare that to the evil wrought by socialists, like yourself.
Of course, first you’re going to have to name at least one of those evils.
So…have at it, lefty.
Okay… Going to try one more time. Pay attention, dolt.
Firstly, Norwegian Socialism does not equal either Communism, Marxism, Fascism, Nazism, or any other of your favourite -isms. There is on the left (as on the right) a whole spectrum of ideas and values separating the different political positions. If you want me to claim Stalin and Mao, you will have to claim Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and *every single tyrant from the 1700′s to the beginning of time*, since what you term “the left” didn’t even exist before that.
Secondly, I believe there was someone else who was unable to tell the difference. Do you remember what this thread is even about, between all your ranting?
Let me remind you, yet again. Eighty. Dead. Kids.
Children who were killed because their killer was unable to tell the difference between his (and your) fantasy Eurabia-bringing Marxists and actual living, breathing people.
Are you about to get the point anytime soon, do you think? Educating you is getting tiresome.
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