Union lawyer: Boeing shouldn’t move to the unskilled, uneducated South
Oh no he didn’t? Oh yes, he did. His name is Thomas Geoghegan, and writing in the Wall Street Journal, he rips companies that move manufacturing to the South.
Why is Boeing, one of our few real global champions in beefing up exports, moving work on the Dreamliner from a high-skill work force ($28 an hour on average) to a much lower-wage work force ($14 an hour starting wage)? Nothing could be a bigger threat to the economic security of this country. …
We should be aghast that Boeing is sending a big fat market signal that it wants a less-skilled, lower-quality work force.
Hm. If Boeing really wants a “less-skilled, lower-quality work force” to build AIRPLANES, yes, that would be a problem. But given the importance of Boeing to making sure the airplanes it builds are quality products, something other than seeking cheap, stupid workers (basically, that’s what Geogheghan seems to think of Southern workers) may be motivating Boeing to go south. It may be, and I’m just spitballlin’ here, that Boeing sees that halving of per-hour labor cost as an objectively good thing to consider. And, still spitballin’ here, it may be that Boeing sees that companies like BMW and Mercedes Benz and Toyota, companies not known for building garbage products, have built thriving manufacturing centers across the South and have become more profitable as a result. Maybe Boeing recognizes that tax and regulatory burdens tend to be lighter in the South than elsewhere. Maybe Boeing just wants to be able to maintain a consistent production line free from Big Labor threats and skullduggery. Maybe, despite what Chicago labor lawyer Thom Geoghegan thinks, Boeing knows that Southern workers don’t need unions around to be productive.
Whatever the maybes are here, one thing’s for sure: It’s a bad idea to insult an entire section of the country, as this union lawyer does in this article. Keep insulting the South, sir, and we’ll return the favor by continuing to steal union jobs with our smarter economic and regulatory climate.
More: Yes, Thom, there are lessons in for the US in Europe’s approach to labor relations. Mostly in the relative frequency of strikes and riots.
The lawyer in question compares the “average” wage in Seattle to the “starting” wage in South Carolina. I am sure he does that to make the discrpancy in wage rates bigger than it is. I wonder what the difference is between starting wages in Seattle and starting wages in South Carolina.
He also confuses skill level with wage level.
Lots of muddy thinking and poor reasoning in there. But, well, he IS advocating for an essentially national-socialist style of economics…
I’m an old Southern boy who was hired up by a Seattle Corp. in 1978. When I got to town there was a union fight going on over the shipyards in Seattle not paying the demanded union wages and benefits. They wanted to be paid more than any other shipyards in the country were making at the time. Management couldn’t met their demands, because it would drive the prices up to where all the work would go elsewhere. The uniions wouldn’t budge and the outcome was that the shipyards closed forever and all the union wokers were out of jobs. Now the only shipyards are in California or on the east coast.
Boing has fought the the airospace unions in Washington for years and in 1970 nearly had to close their doors forever too. They well know how the unions blackmail management into paying rediculous wages and hold them up for seniority to the point that a union man reaches a level where he can’t be fired for deriliction on the job. I’ve known many Boing workers that have told me that senior union men don’t lift a finger all day and draw down high figure hourly wages and they are unfireable. The quality of Boing aircraft has been going down for years and that’s why Airbus has been out competeing them for contracts. It was inevitable the Boing would go to a right to work state to build and if not for the governments or rather Obama’s henchmen, who are strong union activists, they would have succeeded and become more profitable and increased quality again.
The day of union neccessity is long gone. There are enough labor laws on the books that protect the working man that we no longer need unions. We can blame unions for driving the cost of American labor up to the point that nearly every manufacturing business has left America for cheaper labor elsewhere. I recently read that only 10% of the American workforce is now union. They are losing their influence in labor. If not for Obama’s henchmen unions would be just about done. Target’s employees just voted to stay non-union and wisely so. 60% of American workers now work directly or indirectly for government. Either Federal, State, or local. Much of them are now unionized and hold up government services to blackmail government into bargaining situations. Wisconsin just settled the books on that score and no longer has to negotiate with the unions and the rest of the states need to follow suit.
Not true Paul, Seattle has a union shipyard still.
http://boilermakerslocal104.org/?zone=/unionactive/office_locations.cfm
Local 104 International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, Iron Ship Builders, Blacksmiths, Forgers and Helpers
Tee Hee!
hand. cut. face.
I wonder what the percentage of Boeing’s workforce in Seattle is black, v.s. SC? What was Geoghegan really implying? Seattle is one of the whitest major cities in the country.
Why is Boeing, one of our few real global champions in beefing up exports, moving work on the Dreamliner from a high-skill work force ($28 an hour on average) to a much lower-wage work force ($14 an hour starting wage)?
Sort of answers itself, doesn’t it? Gosh, I can build my plant (a) where wages are high or (b) where wages are low. All things being equal, I think I’ll pick, hmm, hold on, this is a tough one . . . .
Plus, Boeing isn’t “moving” work anywhere. Nobody in Washington will be losing a job because this plant is in the South.
Well, right now anyway. But once the Georgia plant is running and has a well trained workforce, there will be “workforce accomodations” in Seattle, for sure.
one reason i hate getting the wsj print edition is reading this drivel then realizing the inability to immediately confront the increasing number of statist opinions (one beauty of “new” media) that are currently overrunning the opinion section
by printing these pieces the wsj is giving “credibility” to nonsense
couple this with the increasing appearances of art binder and too many other statists to name and my desire to keep forking out dinero for this publication is waning rapidly
the wsj opinion pages are being overrun by trolls
Concurred. WSJ used to be the (only U.S.) paper to read; not any longer.
What if Boeing were to just send all those jobs overseas? Does he think that southerners are not smarter than all of Boeing’s foreign mfg? From what I have heard a lot of the stuff they have made overseas has to be done over.
Which of these is the biggest joke in the Pacific Northwest worker’s party lawyer crowd?
a)After you get divorced in the South, are you still brother and sister?
b)Do you know how we became sure that the toothbrush was invented in the South? Because if it was invented up here, it would have been called the teethbrush.
c)The Constitution
Oh, please. We all know the people in the south are a bunch of backwoods redneck hillbillies. The Air Force would never consider building a facility to house the largest, most advanced complex of flight simulation test facilities in the world in the south.
Oh…wait
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Air_Force_Base
Judy – good point. NASA would never entrust the safety and security of our space program to unskilled and uneducated Southerners like in Houston, TX, or Huntsville, AL, or Cape Canaveral FL.
This guy makes me embarrassed to be a Yankee.
John Henry said to the union lawyer,
“Well, a man ain’t nothin’ but a man,
“But before I let union demands take away my job
“I’m gonna die with a hammer in my hand, Lawd, Lawd,
“Die with a hammer in my hand.”
John Henry, he said to Boeing,
“Bring your plant to a state that’s right to work,
“‘Cause you’ll get full value for the wages you pay out
“And the team ain’t never gonna shirk, Lawd, Lawd,
“The team ain’t never gonna shirk.”
Well, Boeing it decided to move down South
To open its new factory
But before it could get production fully online
It was targeted by the NLRB, Lawd, Lawd,
Targeted by the NLRB.
—traditional
Then why are many the manufacturing jobs going to southern states?
You are pricing yourselves out of the market and your president can’t save you.
Read it and weep labor unions and Seattle.
The South IS rising again…ye haw!
Sound like this lawyer needs to come down south and let the “boys” get to know him better. Writing for the WSJ seems far too complacent for a man of such courage. What a wiener……….Unions are dying and lawyers are making less money and they hate it……period.
I am truly concerned that if this goes against Boeing that they will look to move their operations overseas. Talk about unskilled labor. Mexico might make Boeing a great deal, but I would worry about the quality!
The guy’s article is nothing more than flame bait, and I doubt even he believes what he wrote. He’s trying to defend a failing system, hoping he can keep it going a little longer and grab a few more bucks. If he succeeds, Boeing will end up like GM.
I wonder how many Boeing union members drive Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs, etc. built in the South because they’re demonstrably higher quality than the union-made stuff out of Detroit?
I think your comment on American made cars vs. foriegn is outdated and uninformed. Having worked in the industry for more than 30 years, I can tell you that the quality and workmanship in any car made in this country by union workers is every bit if not better than any thing that comes from a foreign country. More than likely you have never had a union job so you don’t know the difference.I remember when all jap cars were junk. They have come a long ways since then. But to keep putting forth the idea that American cars are of poor quality, you are essentialy doing the same thing the lawyer is.Perpetuating an old stereotype.
Actually, it’s probably informed by Consumer Reports. While American cars have improved in quality in recent years, overall they still lag behind Asian auto makers.
It’s true that American made cars are much better today, so are the foreign label cars, many of which are built in America by non-union labor. Those foreign companies have not stood still in the quality front either.
Those of us who were burnt by poor quality American made cars in the past are not willing to trust the Big 3 with so much of our money ever again. You have to admit that they were producing crap for a long, long time. Why should I risk tens of thousands of dollars on companies that have screwed my family?
Boeing is welcome in Texas, we created 237,000 new jobs in the last year and we STILL want to improve that number. C’mon down!!
While you might think we are stupid in the South, we will be paying for our bills, food and the roof over our head… who’s stupid now?
If we in Charleston can overhaul nuclear submarines and maintain the ICBMs that went in them (during the 60′s – mid 90′s) I think we can build a jet plane.
Lawyer Shoots Off Mouth, Wounds Self in Foot…
Southern ER doctors refuse to treat (more on p. 36)
I kinda resent the authors assumption that southerners CAN’T build airplanes. Their education and skill is just as good, if not better (ummm work ETHIC!) than the rest of the country. And just an FYI – the south has lower wages because the cost of living is lower.
I could be wrong but I beleive that the UAW is the union in question here.I worked for an american auto company for 33 years, and I think it was about ten years ago that the union agreed to the companies demand that newly hired workers start at $14 per hr.So the guy who wrote this article does not quite have his facts straight.The real problem lies with health care costs, do something about those, and you can get a handle on things. the only ones who have yet to sacrifice are the fat cats who run the health care industry.I have no problem with Boeing building a new plant as long as its in the USA
Boeing can’t move to dirty, uneducated Houston – all the good real estate is taken up by Lockheed Martin, NASA, Rice University, MD Anderson Cancer Center, DeBakey Heart Institute, Dow Chemical, St. Lukes Heart Center, Shriners Burn Hospital, and…oh, wait. There is ALREADY a Boeing location in Houston.
Plus countless lawyers that would eat that joker for lunch.
Hmm Let me see I need a job and I have a choice, do I want to work for $14 an hr, or do I want to work for $28 an hr.I better think about that one. I think the union job makes sense, but thats just me.
And I’m an employer who can hire someone at $14 an hour or another person at $28 an hour. Gee, which one will I hire? Hmmmm.
Sarah: see my previous comment.(No.19)I don’t understaand why all you people hate your fellow americans so much.All they have ever done is try to earn a fair and decent wage. Just remember if it weren’t for union contracts ya’ll would be making minimum wage still.I wonder if you would feel the same had you grown up in a union household.
We don’t hate you. We hate unions that are so greedy that they run the companies out of business and then demand billions of dollars from us to prop up the unions like at GM.
Well Mr. Thomas Geoghegan. I’m from the south, I walk around with two(2) college degree’s. It’s a shame that all the money spent on your degree can surmount to nothing more than a degree in bashing fellow American’s with your holier than tho attitude. You a disgrace to your profession and if I were an attorney, I would call for you to be disbarred. Your also a disgrace to all American’s.
Well, I suppose Thomas Geoghegan must have either been unaware of, or has forgotten that some of our nation’s most advanced aircraft, civilian as well as military have been designed & built here in Marietta, Georgia at the Lockheed plant near Dobbins AFRB.
Just to mention a few… How about the twin-boom P38 Lockheed “Lightning”
one of World War II’s fastest and most maneuverable fighter aircraft, or
Lockheed’s JetStar & JetStar II, which helped to usher in the age of the executive jet-aircraft.
Let’s not forget the largest military jet transport ever built, the C5A
“Galaxy”. It just so happens that when I was still in high-school down here in the ignorant ole’ South, one of my friend’s dad was a design engineer on this MASSIVE airplane. On the day of it’s public debut, I and
my friend were fortunate enough to have been given a private tour of the C5A. I was appropriately impressed, not least by the fact that it ever got off the ground, seein’ as it had done been built by some of them low skilled an’ low quality work-forcers!
Finally, did he also forget about the F22 “Raptor”, THE most technically advanced jet-fighter aircraft to date? The description I just gave should say it all.
But how did this ev’ah happen, Cap’n? Since the work-force down here in Georgia, even furtha’ south than South Carolina, is so low-skilled an’ low quality? Answer me that, Mr. Thomas Geoghegan!!
TjB1933
All of this bickering is playing into the hands of Unions everywhere – while articles like this one are feeding the never ending ‘civil war’- Trumpka and the UAW are busy trying to recruit members for their ‘Muslim Brotherhood Union Movement’ – Boeing in Egypt is not far away !
He only sounds like a trumpet – the name is Trumka. He thinks he and his people can out guess the Muslim Brotherhood – can you imagine a Union made Camel Saddle?
I’m perplexed as to why so many of you think it’s OK for people in the
South to only earn half as much as in the North – apparently for the same work. I doubt that the managers in the ‘new’ plant will only make half as much as the ones in Washington.
Ah, didn’t we read last month that 47% of adult Detroiters are functionally illiterate, and half of the Detroit illiterates possess a high school diploma? I wonder what percentage of Chicago illiterates have a law school degree?
Ray,
We’re preparing to make a move South; our home in one of the more affordable DC-area zip codes is worth 4 times a similar home in Alabama. The school systems have similar reputations (Fairfax Co, VA vs Huntsville, AL) but the taxes are much lower even taking Alabama’s higher sales tax into account. You need to look at the cost of living.
So Jeannette is your income going to be half of what it is now?
I really wanna know what a Chicago lawyer knows about building airplanes? Especially with regard to the skills required to make it happen! I’m assuming this is just liberal union mouthpiece/hack speech. Stick to subjects you know something about.
Ya know, Ray…
If I had to guess, I’d say you were probably a union worker. If that’s in fact the case, your opinion is clearly biased. However, if you are a union member, perhaps you could answer a few questions for me… honest answers, if you please.
What percentage of your net wages do you pay in union dues? NET wages, please.
The union dues paid by you and your fellow workers… are they voluntary?
Is your union membership mandatory for you to be employed, wherever it is that you work?
When your employer wants to terminate a worker for cause (say…caught in the act of stealing, or repeatedly late or absent from his/her shift, or for being PROVABLY bone-lazy), are they able to do so without union interference, or must they run the gamut of legal hoops before they can rid themselves of dead-weight?
Finally, are the health benefits provided by your union, and/or by your employer, generous?
Ray, these are just a few of the reasons why it costs manufacturers less to operate when there’s no union to gum up the works. Most certainly, unions have done a very great deal of good over the last seventy or eighty years…that’s a given. But now, more often than not, unions now are virtually useless! They’ve become massive political machines for the Left, cranking out votes and campaign dollars in return for political considerations.
I’ve known quite a few union members over the years and virtually every single one has become disillusioned with their membership. All but one pays their dues reluctantly; some pay voluntarily for the sole reason that union leadership makes known to the rank and file just who does and does NOT pay dues.
Is it any wonder union membership is shrinking all over the country, and has been for years? Thank God!
TjB
Sorry Thomas, I have nothing to do with unions and never have so can’t answer your questions. Just concerned about a just break for the folks who do the work.
A few questions for you.
Do you think Boeing upper management will cut their income in half for the time they spend in/at/on the new plant? Why not?
If Boeing is profitable with $28/hr why are they paying less in the new plant.
Why are workers worth less in the new plant than the old if they’re doing the same work?
Why can’t our business sector compete with Germany which pays better benefits than we do?
Why is it OK for upper management in US business to receive much greater compensation compared to the people in their organization who do the work on the floor than Germany?
Are you really willing to fly in planes that are made by the lowest paid workers?
Gawd, I must be a liberal – I’m concerned about people. Or maybe it’s just that I’ve worked at the floor level.
Ray…
You’ve raised some interesting questions here. I’ll try to provide as honest an answer as I’m able, to each of them.
Q. Do you think Boeing upper management will cut their income in half for the time they spend in/at/on the new plant?
A. No, I don’t and wouldn’t expect them to.
Q. Why not?
A. Because, unless they’re brand-new hires in the S.C. plant, their salary has already been set; it would be a bit inequitable to reduce their compensation simply because their job takes them to the new plant. However, you can be assured that new hires in upper management for this new S.C. plant will be compensated at the current, local level and not at the level of similar upper management at Boeing’s Seattle plant.
3. If Boeing is profitable with $28/hr why are they paying less in the new plant?
A. Both you & that prejudiced Chicago labor lawyer Thomas Geoghegan are under the delusion that every worker “on the floor” in the Seattle plant earns $28 p/hour, and similarly assuming that every worker “on the floor” in the S.C. plant earns $14 p/hour. Unless you’re both being purposely obtuse, you know full well that this is a minimum pay-rate, & that there are indeed other, higher paid craftsmen on that S.C. floor.
Q. Why can’t our business sector compete with Germany which pays better benefits than we do?
A. Germany has also swallowed the socialist nonsense which is currently bankrupting Greece and Portugal, and unless they are very, very skillful in the UK, then Britain as well. (I happen to have a number of friends IN Germany and I don’t believe they’d concur with your premise.)
Q. Why is it OK for upper management in US business to receive much greater compensation, compared to the people in their organization who do the work on the floor than in Germany?
A. My answer to the previous question also applies to this question. The manner in which you phrase your questions sets up the tired, old socialist “class warfare” scenario: Upper Management = “Rich” and Worker on the Floor = “Poor”
Q. Are you really willing to fly in planes that are made by the lowest paid workers?
A. Oh, you must mean like the F22 Raptor, built by dem dum’ ol’ “low-skill’d” boys down south heah in May’retta at Lockeed… or the Galaxy C5A built by dat “low-quality” workforce, also down south at Lockheed… or, or… maybe even that pioneerin’ Lockheed P38 Lightin’ what shot down all a’ dem nasty ol’ Nazzie’s back in WW2?
Yeah, if given a chance, I’d fly in ANY aircraft built by the workers you denigrate, along with Mr. Thomas Geoghegan!
Gawd, I must be a liberal – I’m concerned about people. Or maybe it’s just that I’ve worked at
the floor level.
So you have the damned gall Ray, to say “I’m concerned about people” but evidently you’re not much concerned about the S.C. workforce, which you and the above named Union leech-lawyer are so happy to belittle. I gather you’d not give a damn about them losing their jobs when the government forces a private enterprise, building the Dreamliner (a non-governmental contract), to close a plant into which billions have been invested and move it back to Seattle… leaving that “low skilled, low-quality” workforce out in the cold!
Sir, that is an indefensible position. Oh, and by the way… I was fortunate to have worked “at
the floor level” myself… it must have taught me a different lesson than your experience.
TjB
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