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Islam is the PC favored ideology, the one the far left has invested its energies into protecting and militant atheists have joined the left’s gambit in the hopes that Christianity can be further undermined. Because, after all, militant atheists have only one enemy: Christianity. So, in the final analysis, there is no contradiction in militant atheists supporting religious Muslims. After all, religion is not their target, Christianity is.
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It’s simply amazing to see christians in full panic mode. Just shows you how weak their basic premise is.
Christians are in full panic mode? Really? All of them? Most of them? All the leaders? Anybody? Please be more specific.
Somehow these discussions always focus on the extremes. Obviously, a minority gives the rest a bad name.
The reality is that radical Islamists have posed, and continue to pose, a serious threat. 99 percent of the attacks and foiled plots ARE by Islamists, for crying out loud. Anecdotal reading reveals many, many imams in this country preach hatred toward the very country in which they’ve chosen to live. So why shouldn’t there be an investigation into this threat?
Why can I only offer anecdotal evidence? Because real evidence — in the form of secret recordings, etc. — is not readily available, and the “umma” have chosen the code of Omerta in confronting the reality.
The FBI, NSA, etc. are fully aware of the so-called “Christian” extremists in this country. But they don’t pose a threat on the scale of the Islamists.
And if atheists choose to ally with the Islamists, they’re hypocrites in the worst degree.
The MSM and government types
Hit “submit” too soon, sorry –
Meant to add, … search under every rock for “Christian terrorists,” and find a laughably meager threat.
I am an atheist, and I am beginning to see that American muslims and atheists do have something in common.
In both cases, we are millions of good American friends and neighbors. And in both cases, our reputations are being trashed by a destructive minority.
Just as most American muslims are not terrorists, most American atheists are not left wing jerks.
+1
TO: Robert L. Mayo, Stephen Green and other Delusionals
RE: Millions & Millions
You may like to think that there are millions of Muslims who are not terrorists. Well…they many not be building bombs or plotting mass murder, but they ARE NOT talking to the police about their neighbors they know ARE. That’s coming out in the King investigation. And law enforcement officials agree. The ‘umma’ is supporting the terrorists with their silence.
Now….what about you atheists?
I hear more from those of your camp attempting to silence the Christian community than I do from the likes of Stephen Green. And he has a rather significant platform in PJM.
From what I’ve seen, the millions and millions of ‘nice’ atheists are like the millions and millions of ‘nice’ Muslims….silent.
Hope that helps….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Atheist, n., One praying to God that He doesn't exist.]]
Chuck, I think you’ll find that a great many atheists just don’t give a crap about religion, and figure that the stories we tell about gods are just stories.
You don’t notice them, because they don’t care much about you or your beliefs. They’re just living their own lives, without any particular affinity for your particular complex mythology.
TO: Barry D
RE: Thanks….
….for collaborating my observation, vis-a-vis their ‘silence’ about the egregious disregard for the Constitution of the United States on the part of their ‘associates’.
As well as emphasizing—thereby—my quote from Lincoln on their ‘cowardice’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The difference between a good man and a bad one is the choice of causes. -- William James]
From a former atheist to all of you claiming you are: Guess what? You are members of a faith based community! How about that! One day I realized what an arrogant and pompous jerk, not to mention anti-scientific (in the real sense) one must be to claim the atheistic belief. After all, you might be wrong. Granted, I do agree that the odds are in favor of the no-God hypothesis. However, since existence of God or something like it cannot be falsified, to be honest you must make the claim of an agnostic.
Ha! There is nothing quite like a mystic reborn!
I love that all Atheists are dumped into the same category. I consider myself libertarian, most people call me right-wing. I happen to think there are a lot of good things about certain religions and would likely raise any children I have in the religion of their mother (supposing she’s a believer). I just don’t happen to think there is much, if anything good about Islam. And I am certainly offended to be lumped as an Atheist into the category of Islamic supporter,
In the case I made above, all atheists are in one category. I am sure there is diversity in other beliefs, bias, and so forth, but not in that.
You must not have thought very much about your atheism (note: lowercase “a”) and I suspect it might’ve been a secondary component to a political ideology. The very etymology of the word “atheist” means “one without gods” and that’s what I consider myself to be — no more, no less. I see no scientific evidence for the existence of Allah, Thor, Quetzalcoatl or the Christ and therefore I consider them irrelevant to my daily existence. Nobody needs to falsify these gods since the burden of proof lies upon their followers to offer evidence of their existence. You can’t falsify my claim that invisible, fourth-dimensional gnomes live in my toilet tank, either. That doesn’t mean you’re forced to believe in them.
I thought a great deal about it a long time ago, and it has nothing to do with politics. In addition, words do not mean whatever suits your argument. The definition of atheist is: ATHEIST – one who believes that there is no deity. Courtesy of the Merriam Webster Dictionary. This is an article of faith. I agree that people can make preposterous claims, and in those cases the burden of providing extraordinary evidence is upon them. I agree that every religion has this burden, and as far as I can tell, all fail at providing that evidence. However, and this is my point: I could be wrong. I recognize that, which makes me agnostic. Once again, if I claim atheist, I am acting on faith, as you do if you claim the same.
I’m amazed Glenn Reynolds linked to this page. It’s pure hogwash.
Guess he’s trolling for more page clicks to up his Amazon income.
TO: not chuck pelto
RE: On the Other Hand….
….maybe he’s more aware of the relationship between atheists and Islamofascists than you care to recognize.
On the gripping hand….
….maybe he’s trying to come to a better understanding of ‘Christianity’ than he currently has. Lord knows he’s got problems on his ‘walk’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[God builds His temple, in the heart, on the ruins of churches and religions.]
Chuck, I’ll meet you half way. I have a problem with moderate Muslims too. Not because I doubt they exist (I now they do, there’s lots of them). It’s that too few are doing their part.
The bottom line is that Islamic Radicalism is a struggle for the heart of Islam, for what constitutes true Islam. That’s a battle Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and Jews can’t fight, for what right have we non-Muslims to say what Islam is?
No, this battle can only be fought by non-extremist Muslims. The few who are should be recognized for their courage, but the mass should be ashamed of themselves for making us fight their battle for them.
As for atheists, if atheism were an organized movement like Christianity, then you might be right. But they’re not, they’re just people who don’t believe in god. In nobody who doesn’t believe in god has any particular obligation to police the other people who don’t believe in god.
TO: tim maguire
RE: It’s….
No, this battle can only be fought by non-extremist Muslims. — tim maguire
….a ‘lost cause’ with Islam. ‘Non-Extremist’ Muslims will be gunned-down, i.e., silenced, by the ‘Extremists’. It’s the way of all fascist efforts.
If you can’t beat them, KILL them.
A tried and true approach to ‘governance’.
And those that remain ‘silent’, i.e., do not resist the ‘extremists’ will ‘survive’….in a Hell of their own making.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Greater love hath no man than this. That a man lay down his life for a friend. -- Some Wag, around 2000 years ago.]
“From what I’ve seen, the millions and millions of ‘nice’ atheists are like the millions and millions of ‘nice’ Muslims….silent.”
What exactly is your point? That millions of us are sitting on tips that could lead to the arrest of would-be terrorists in what must be the world’s worst kept secrets? Why would these two groups be any more culpable than millions of silent Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Rosicrucians, Raelians and Scientologists? A person who is an atheist may also be white, Floridian, male and unemployed. Why not blame cast blame based on those demographics? Do you simply have an ax to grind with people who don’t share your religious belief system?
“You may like to think that there are millions of Muslims who are not terrorists. Well…they many not be building bombs or plotting mass murder, but they ARE NOT talking to the police about their neighbors they know ARE.”
Please clarify because it sounds like you are saying that there is not even a few million muslims who are not only not terrorists, but have no personal knowledge of any. Is it possible that people planning to commit mass murder don’t blab about it? Is it possible that most members of any faith are just trying to live their lives, do their jobs, play with the kids and end the day with lousy TV shows? Why is an entire group held accountable for activities of a minority with whom there is no evidence they ever conspired?
This would be like an atheist or muslim concluding Christians are all paranoid xenophobes after reading your online posts.
Who on earth is suppressing your beliefs? You don’t seem afraid to post hostile messages here. Looking for a slice of the victim culture?
Finally, your open disdain for others who don’t share your religious beliefs reveals an open disdain for the tolerance enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That’s not patriotism; that’s tribalism – and it undermines your claims to valuing the Constitution.
“Freedom means freedom for everyone” – Richard Cheney
I don’t get it. If you are an adherent of a religion, then presumably you believe that the claims of your religion are objectively “true”. In that case, the claims of all other religions are objectively “false”, as is atheism. So, why single out atheists? If everyone else is wrong, what difference does it make how they are wrong?
With that out of the way, I will point out that a “moderate” Muslim is one who only throws a small stone at the woman buried up to her waist in the ground. And there are lots of them.
“I am an atheist, and I am beginning to see that American muslims and atheists do have something in common.”
I think that that was the point of the Tatler…you both fear and loathe Christianity,(and probably Judaism, from whence Christianity came, too).
“In both cases, we are millions of good American friends and neighbors.”
Perhaps, and then again, perhaps not. There have been more than a few of your “good neighbors” who have been arrested and indicted for doing, or planning to do some very “un-neighborly” things…such as setting off bombs in the DC Metro.
So your exculpatory assertion doesn’t really hold much water with me, ace…I’ve heard it before.
Just to be “neighborly” though, I think I’ll remind you of the old saying: “Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it!”
See…you have the luxury, thanks to the tolerance of this so-called “destructive minority”, to hold and to preach your atheism.
Do you think that you would be so tolerated in a Muslim land, infidel?
(You’d look mighty funny wearing your Mardi Gras beads around your neck after your erstwhile “good neighbors” have cut off your f*ck*n’ head, sport!)
And since you reject the Almighty and the promise of Salvation, you then get to look forward to your immortal soul roasting in the fires of Hell…forever. Clever lad.
(I’ll pray for you, I think you’ll be needing it.)
TO: Bilgeman
RE: Our Atheist ‘Friends’
About that ‘hell fire’ business. I like the way Andrew Klavan offered assistance.
As for the ‘silence’ of either group—atheist and Muslim—I offer this observation by a famous American statesman…
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men. — Abraham Lincoln
And YES, I’m challenging the ‘manhood’ of these ‘nice’ atheists amongst us who remain silent in the face of the blatant hatred for the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution of the United States expressed by their ‘associates’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[To uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.]
This is absurd. I am an atheist myself so I don’t have an invisible man in the fight. But that doesn’t mean all religions are equal. You would have to abandon all reason to arrive at such a conclusion.
I would only ask that you look at the actions of the prophets of the two religions discussed here. Then you can come back and tell me that Jesus is not a proper model to emulate in one’s behavior as opposed to Mohammed who admitted to practicing slavery, murder, rape and compelled conversion. He also commanded his followers to engage in all of these practices… even going so far as to tell his troops it was OK to rape the widows of his victims in front of the bodies of their loved ones he had just slain. It is indefensible and inconceivable that at this late time in history so many people around the globe consider Mohammed to be the perfect man. There is no possible scenario where such a thing can end well.
In short, it is atheists like you that give the rest of us a bad name because you are knee-jerk in your reactions and incapable of making obvious distinctions like I have outlined. Whether this is from ignorance or malice really does not matter; the damage done is the same. It is true that all religions are a form of insanity. But if so Islam is a criminal sort of insanity.
There is no way Islam can be reformed without discarding Mohammed entirely. That is simply a fact. Otherwise it is not and never will be compatible with civilization. But to be compatible with civilization it has to give up everything that distinguishes it from Christianity or Judaism that is of any significance. People who understand Islam do not trust its adherents for the same reason that Nazis or Marxists are not trusted. They all subscribe to a brutal and barbaric ideology. It has nothing to do with bigotry but rather reason.
To the extent Muslims don’t take Mohammed’s demands seriously or do not advocate for sharia then they are alright. But this just means that they are not really Muslims in anything other than name. Fortunately that is predominately the case in the US but we play with dynamite if we pretend that such a happy coincidence will maintain forever. This will be especially true if people keep making excuses for what is an untenable and barbaric ideology.
Now I realize that being an atheist is trendy and gives one a sense of intellectual superiority over all those less intelligent commoners, but to claim common cause with islam puts the lie to all that. islam is just another religion, albeit one that happens to claim near 100% of all present day terrorists and a fair amount of the world’s totalitarian and brutal regimes and juntas. They also have not only a hard core anti-human rights platform built right in, there is also a plethora of empirical evidence for those in doubt. I challenge you to be a publicly declared atheist in a country subject to real muslim rule, i.e., sharia. Good luck with that. Peasants living in Martel’s times, with all of their superstition, illiteracy, lack of science, and adherence to that dreadful (at least as viewed these days in the ‘intellectual’ community) Christian faith, were smarter than that.
Quite the contrary, that at least 75% of this country professed Christian, it’s a sign of great strength of our message and its basic premise to shake the dust from our feet and tolerate your ilk, finding you only a minor nuisance and no threat. We could easily steamroll you without effort, if we chose to do so.
I suppose AZTech2020 hopes to graduate from an Arizona Tech Prep program high school about 8 years from now. Youthful ignorance easily explains AZTech2020′s sneer. Maybe a decently taught middle school World History class will awaken AZTech2020 to the fact that Mohammedanism came to North Africa, the Near East, and the Middle East by putting the sword to their Christian inhabitants.
A proper European History class would also show AZTech2020 that science, rules of legal evidence, the concept of individual human rights, separation of Church and State, recognition of the equal dignity of men and women, and other distinguishing characteristics of Western Civilization were developed by Christians -specifically Catholic Christians- not Mohammedans nor atheists.
What a pompous ass! You’ve bought into the entire xtian myth and have not likely ever really questioned the idiocy of your beliefs. Pathetic. The best you can come up with is some high school fantasy?? You show your own immaturity, and flaunt your ignorance. I am 66 years old with multiple degrees and you truly need to open your eyes as to whom the great civilization developments were attributed. Not some fools that believed all the fairy tales of the bible. Utter rubbish! Why is it then, that you can prove absolutely nothing that you choose to believe? The majority of your xtians are hypocrites and only say they believe because it’s the “right” thing to do. (You can see that in everything they do!)
TO: Donald Domke
RE: Heh
What a pompous ass!….Pathetic. — Donald Domke
Talk about ‘projection’.
RE: [OT] Care to Compare ‘Notes’?
You’ve bought into the entire xtian myth and have not likely ever really questioned the idiocy of your beliefs. — Donald Domke
Not for this particular topical thread. Rather for some other location.
Your place? Or mine?
Search on my name and the term “COMensrations”. I’ll set up an item there wherein you can decry Christians and I can respond to your ‘criticisms’ without totally hijacking this thread.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]
P.S. I’m talk’n about YOU….
P.P.S. It’s there! Just waiting for you to expand on your tirade…..
ERRATA:
That should read “COMensarations”. My fat-fingering. I apologize.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[To have no errors. Would be life without meaning. No struggle, no joy. - Haiku Error Msg]
I find it interesting that you need to throw out your degrees as some sort of proof that you know what you’re talking about. Degrees mean one thing…basically that you kissed a professors ass for 2, 3 or more years. Back up what you say (your conjecture) or don’t say it! People like you are pathetic!
Somebody who says this:
“I am 66 years old with multiple degrees and you truly need to open your eyes as to whom the great civilization developments were attributed. Not some fools that believed all the fairy tales of the bible.”
…probably shouldn’t be calling someone else “a pompous ass.”
You owe me a new Irony Meter.
You are so aged and degreed that you never learned to use use caps when it comes to the title of a book? “Bible” – it’s a book title. xtians. Oh, my. This is extremely ironic, in that the original word, “Christian” (which does, in fact, start with “chi” it Greek) was a heavily derogatory term used against those who called themselves “Followers of the Way” (from Jesus’ statement, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”) It was several years after the Resurrection that the Followers of the Way decided to embrace the word that was being used as an epithet and agreed to call themselves “Christians.”
Now the same small minds are attempting the same thing. Fine. Call me xian.
BTW, how is that “toleration for alternate lifestyles” going? I’ve got a lifestyle that’s obviousl “alternate” to yours. Tolerate me much?
TO: All
RE: Donald Domke
Looks like Donald is the sort of atheist that the Tatler is talking about.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Talk about self-identification.]
“The Tatler’s” comment is spot on. Christianity is their true target, radical Islam is only the tool of the moment. The hatred of those that despise GOD is so powerful that it blinds them as to what they are doing. Look around you. What has Christianity done for this nation? What has radical Islam done for this nation? Radical Islam means sharia
for everybody, everywhere–it is their explicitly stated aim. Adoption of sharia means the destruction of our culture, our civilization and the loss of our freedoms–ALL OF THEM. Those that despise Christ would bring the disease and destruction of sharia upon themselves rather than give acknowledgment to GOD.
I am one atheist that fears the onslaught of islam. Islam is far more of a threat than Christianity ever was- even when Christendom was the “bad boy” of the world during the inquisition.
Islam’s inquisition has always existed and will never cease until it is reformed of its violent teachings- and I don’t feel there is much hope that I’ll live to see the day when a truly peaceful and civil ‘islam’ dominates within the world’s muslim population.
Islam will never ‘coexist’ (as those nauseating ‘cute’ bumper stickers you’ve probably seen exclaim) in its current form so long as there are other religions or western civilization that compete with it. Islam seeks to dominate and conquer.
Ditto, Thunderbunny.
However, I don’t think I’m really an atheist. Isn’t it true that an atheist doesn’t believe God exists? I don’t believe I have any special wisdom on this topic. I am an agnostic. I don’t know if God exists or not, but I see no particular evidence that he does. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t, but it means I see no reason to assume he does. Back when the big 3 monotheistic religions were invented, man needed a system to explain the world. They invented religion and it did the job (albeit imperfectly) for a number of centuries. However, since the Enlightenment and subsequent scientific advances, I don’t believe we need religion to explain our world. Do we know everything yet? Nope. Might we not ever have a Unified Theory? Possibly. Will we ever understand the Big Bang and why it happened? Maybe, maybe not. But….. it seems to me that our lack of ability to understand EVERYTHING doesn’t pre-req a God at this point.
Now, as to whether atheists/agnostics are siding with Islamofacists. Yeah, probably some are. Seems some prominent ones (Christopher Hitchens, for instance) are certainly NOT pro-Islam, however . Most of the atheists/agnostics I personally know see Islam as a far greater threat than Christianity. Actually, I personally have no problem with any individual peacefully exercising their right to believe in whatever religion they want. The problem is that with Islam right now, that “peacefully” clause seems to be a problem.
Christians need to remember that their house is not entirely free of glass. I strongly condemn people killing abortion doctors for instance. Not that I agree necessarily with abortion per se (it’s a complex topic I think even for agnostics). But killing a doctor is simply wrong. There is no rational debate on that topic. All that said, the violence in the world of the 21st century perpetrated by Christians is round-off error compared with the violence perpetrated in the name of Islam.
TO: Tatler, et al.
RE: Excellent Point, That….
….atheism correlates well with Islam. And the Muslims welcome the ally. What can you expect of ‘evil’.
Doubt this correlation?
Consider the first ‘miracle’ of the Christ. He changed water into wine. [NOTE: Muslims don't like 'wine'.]
Consider the first ‘miracle’ of Mohammed. He knocked over a caravan.
Something of, as we say in the Army, an ‘indicator’ there. And that’s just one of many such indicators, if you do a compare and contrast between the two religious belief systems. And then you have the atheists who don’t believe in anything, except themselves.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[I am the lord my god. Thou shalt have no other god before ME! -- Atheist's First Commandment]
I don’t know if adding to this conversation helps, or just invites an attack.
I wore a uniform and defended my country for 20+ years, I went where I was told and did what was required, as lots of other people have before me.
Not once in that 20+ years did anyone raise an eyebrow when I asked to be “solemnly affirmed” rather than “swear” to the testimony in question.
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/7000/7000-1-eng.asp
I did a couple of tours in places in the Middle East and Persian Gulf, and the difference between here and there is at least 2 centuries in development and tolerance for differing points of view.
Get past the thin veneer of current money on the surface, it’s sawdust and crappy ideological glue underneath.
But for 90% of their population that is all they know, they still get the current line of what the “right thought” is from the Friday sermon.
It’s changing, but not fast enough for it to be safe to allow any closer integration in our lifetimes.
For want of a better term, they need time to evolve, perhaps a Martin Luther moment that will free their faith from the poison attached to the prophet. Much as the early Jewish Patriarchs that obeyed God’s commands to kill, pillage and rape in the Old Testament are not considered guidance for today’s Christians and Jews.
TO: mitchel44
RE: Service Time
Heh. I enlisted in 1970. I retired (LTC) in 1997.
RE: A ‘Martin Luther’ Moment in Islam
They had such a ‘moment’ back in the thirteenth century, when the Mongols rolled through the Middle East, slaughtering entire cities and staking the skulls of the inhabitants in three piles—men, women, children—outside the city gates.
Up to that point, Islam had been the religion of the most scientifically advanced culture in the world. After that scourge, the religious leaders took over, claiming that all that science was anathema to their god. They’ve been like that ever since. And it doesn’t look like they’re going to change.
RE: A Short History of How We Got to Where We Are Now
All this activity of late, e.g., from the ‘intifada’ against Israel, through 9/11, 3/11, 7/11 and the current business in all their dictatorships is just another phase in the millennia-old struggle to dominate the world.
The initial expansion operation, after the inception of Islam, was stopped in France at the Battle of Tours (732).
The Western counter offensive is known as the Crusades.
The next Islamic offensive was conducted by the Ottoman Turks and stopped outside of Venice in 1683.
The West’s next counter offensive was World War I, when the decrepit Ottoman Empire sided with Germany. The Europeans rolled in and staked their own imperial claims on the Middle East.
Then when the Western Empires collapsed after World War II, the local inhabitants started building up their own military as an effort to drive Israel out of existence.
Having failed at that, they’ve decided to attack the West as it supports Israel, but also as we’re all ‘infidels’ and therefore worthy of conquest, conversion or death.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
P.S. About that ‘Martin Luther’ Moment….
….it ain’t gonna happen in Egypt with THIS ‘revolution’.
Mohammad El Baradei, whom many tout as a great reformer, is now on record supporting the Egyptian constitution’s controversial Article 2, which states: “Islam is the Religion of the State. Arabic is its official language, and the principal source of legislation is Islamic Jurisprudence (Sharia).”
“Atheists for the caliphate.” Catchy!
kcs
Until such time that when the Caliphate comes after them, they will either be force to submit or die.
The Tatler ought to try talking to some *actual* militant atheists. The premise of this story is exactly the sort of bigoted nonsense that undermines conservatives when they have valid points to make.
TO: Eric S. Raymond
RE: Yeah….Right….
See my comment at March 10, 2011 – 6:17 am.
Enjoy,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
That’s right, Eric! No *true* scots^H^H^H^H^Hmilitant atheist would behave that way!
Excellent observation tattler.
Of course these leftist atheists are serving as useful idiots here, because if Islam ever did defeat christianity, any atheists would be declared apostates, and would be among the first to be put to death.
Kind of like when leftists used to serve as useful idiots for the communists, where if the communists ever won, they would have executed all the leftists, right after they executed the conservatives, since the leftists were not real communists either.
Islam has it’s roots in pagan idol worship going back to the time of Moses and beyond. Worshipers prayed (facing Mecca) to the Allah, the Moon God whose symbol is the crescent moon. Archeological evidence connects the cult of the Moon God to Islam. Not surprising that Atheists would support it. It has been anathema to the children of Abraham for centuries.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
The whole thing about atheists is that they generally reject organizing or associating with others on ideological matters.
So, what some crack pot says on a stupid sign has nothing to do with other atheists. I don’t let others speak for me.
I don’t much like christianity, but there are plenty of people who are very nice despite their very incorrect ideology and they don’t, currently, try to kill people for not sharing their wrong beliefs. Islam does believe in killing people for that reason. That’s why I’m over here in Afghanistan helping to kill fanatical muslims.
Don’t be so bigoted.
TO: Skyler
RE: Thanks….
So, what some crack pot says on a stupid sign has nothing to do with other atheists. I don’t let others speak for me. — Skyler
…for confirming my observation about how so many MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of atheists are ‘silent’ when their associates try to suppress the beliefs of others….especially Christians.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men. -- Abraham Lincoln]
P.S. When those of US who believe in the rights of the Constitution are gone….
….WHO ya gonna call?
That’s why I’m over here in Afghanistan helping to kill fanatical muslims.
My sincere thanks to you for your service. Stay safe out there!
You forgot the Jews. They are perhaps a primary target. Atheists don’t much care for practicing Jews and dislike Israelis both secular and religious. The Moslems seem to agree.
I don’t get this post at all. I came to it from Instapundit. I might agree with it if I understood it, but I don’t get it. Probably I am stupid.
TO: george
RE: ‘Stupid’??!!?
I don’t get this post at all. I came to it from Instapundit. I might agree with it if I understood it, but I don’t get it. Probably I am stupid. — george
Maybe. But then again, maybe not. ‘Ignorant’, perhaps. Why?
Because my working definition of ‘stupid’ is….
Ignorant and proud of it.
Everyone is ‘ignorant’….about SOMETHING. I don’t understand quantum mechanics as well as I think I should. And that’s only ONE example. However, I’m not particularly ‘proud’ of my ignorance.
On the other hand, these people we’re talking about here, these ‘atheists’ are certainly ‘ignorant’ about Christianity, let alone God. And THEY are PROUD of their ignorance.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Don't sell yourself short, that's other peoples business.]
I’m an atheist, and I agree that there are some leftist atheists who do try to suppress Christianity, and I believe that they are wrong to do so.
But I also believe that their desire to suppress Christianity has more to do with their leftism than their atheism.
Not all atheists are leftists. I consider myself a libertarian, but I expect most leftists would consider me a hard-right conservative.
Atheists are not your enemy, leftists are. And I fight leftists in whatever small way that I can.
Skyler is right, “what some crack pot says on a stupid sign has nothing to do with other atheists”.
I don’t blame all Christians for what Fred Phelps does, so don’t blame me for this crack pot’s sign.
Right on, Ray. As a fellow libertarian atheist, I can only applaud your post. I don’t care what religion anybody is as long as he doesn’t try to force its rules on me — something leftists are wont to do with Islam.
But I also believe that their desire to suppress Christianity has more to do with their leftism than their atheism.
That makes a great deal of sense. My sample size of conservative atheists is 1 (a close friend, raised Jewish), which is not much to generalize from, but I’ve never heard her say anything remotely disrespectful of either Christianity or Judaism.
Islam, on the other hand… let’s put it this way: Neither of us want to wear what I call the “fail veil”, and we both want to keep all our lady-parts, thankyouverymuch!
I have blogged on how militant atheists evaluate the relative toxicity of religions. I don’t merely assert that this cuddle-up-to-Islam thing is ridiculous, I explain exactly why it’s absurd, coming from atheist principles.
TO: Eric S. Raymound
RE: Heh
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before….
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. — Old Arab Axiom
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. The Muslims don’t give a flying flip of difference between your atheism and any other pagan, i.e., none ‘People of the Book’, religious beliefs.
If you come under their control, you’ll either take the pledge or be killed. Only the ‘People of the Book’, if not killed outright, are allowed to live, in order to pay taxes.
I think some misunderstanding is arising from religious folks not really understanding how un-related atheists are to one another. We seem to be lumping together people who think all religion is man-made stories with people who are actively hostile to religion. Not to mention the fact that agnostics are often thrown in since they have no religion. Motives are being assigned to this group that is not a group.
Atheism is not an identity group in the same way religions are, except for the anti-religion atheists. You are imagining a baseball team comprised of all those who do not play baseball.
Long removed from the days they could put their detractors in thumbscrews, the best the religious can do anymore is shriek and howl when confronted by people who don’t share their delusions and seek to break their millenia-old monopoly on the public square. Is it not tiresome to anyone else, seeing people who remain the unassailable demographic majority in this country wail about persecution where and whenever their cultural homogeneity is by an angstrom diluted?
Get over it, you big babies. Sheesh.
Sorry, but this is no less that what I would expect. When I first became an atheist, I read much of other atheists’ literature and much of their conversation and came to agree that the religious power structure was to be eschewed. After 9/11, I thought, “Here’s an opportunity for atheists to come to the fore and fight the religious enemy we’ve been seeing all along!” But I found that few of my fellows were against this particular religion, and I concluded that most were hypocrites who used atheism as a crutch to rebel against the culture they lived in, and as a cover for socialism and communism, on the logic that if God can’t control a man, then the collective had damn better well do so. (That man ought to be free and uncontrolled did not occur to them as a possibility.)
You can think of atheists for Islam as a special case of determinist solidarity.
Simple and shallow. Most atheists don’t think of religion one way or another until it’s slapped in their face like this little gem.
By the way, you nor anyone else has provided a working definition for ‘militant atheists’. This makes the screed even more tenuous as you’re drawing conclusions about a made up group.
Evil is alive and prospering. Educated westerners cannot make simple moral distinctions.
Here is a stat. 90% of Egyptian women have been “circumcised.”
Nice religion.
this article and the one from which it is derived are based on ONE person’s idiotic sign at a manufactured rally. i know plenty of atheists and not one of them would i characterize as ‘militant’ nor could they give a hoot about christianity. why are ‘believers’ so defensive and paranoid??
TO: el polacko
RE: Must Be Nice….
….living in that obviously insular planet of yours. A place where Christian beliefs are not under attack by atheists.
Where, exactly, is it, anyway? Anywhere near the Solar System?
Do you have warp drive, replicators and transporters there?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Atheism is a non-prophet organization.]
I’m and atheist and I got kicked of Dean Esmay’s blog for being so hard on Islam. In fact, I think Islam is far worse that Christianity by just about any measure.
So I call bullshit on the Pubic Forum, oops Pubis Forum. Sorry, spelling.
Right on, Brian. As a fellow atheist, I suspect hardcore Christians and extremist Muslims have much more in common than they think — they both hate the non-believer
Some say that it isn’t enough to say that the atheist doesn’t believe in God, it’s more accurate to say that there is a specific God that the atheist does not believe in.
It is that specific God that that the atheist objects to. All other religions are harmless. (Note that no one objects to government-funded statues of Zeus under “separation of church and state,” for example.)
Arguing that Islam is acceptable while Christianity is not may be an example of this.
It also smacks of a certain condescension of Muslims: as though to say “You know, they don’t really take their religion seriously either. It’s only those fool Christians who actually believe that there really is a God.”
I have no idea where you get your ideas about atheism. The evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic god is exactly the same as the evidence for Thor, Quetzalcoatl, Anansi, Glooscap, Cthulhu or Bigfoot, (i.e.: none) and I disbelieve in all of them equally. In fact, I explain to anyone who asks that “I don’t believe in gods” rather than “God” since I see no reason to privilege one belief over any other.
TO: Nyarlathotep
RE: Try….
The evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic god is exactly the same as the evidence for Thor, Quetzalcoatl, Anansi, Glooscap, Cthulhu or Bigfoot, (i.e.: none) and I disbelieve in all of them equally. — Nyarlathotep
….not to manifest your total ignorance so blatantly. It makes you look ‘stupid’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]
One and only post here– I’m an atheist and don’t want to see any sky god worship having anything to do with the governance of the nation. And I feel sorry for those who waste their one life waiting for an afterlife that will never come. But generally I defend the rights of people to believe and express whatever idiocies they choose. Doesn’t mean I have to respect those idiocies though. I too am bemused by this post and like many atheists scratching my head on what exactly a “militant” atheist is. I think Christians are simply upset that there is finally a counter-voice in the culture to their world view which has dominated for so long.
I feel that Islam is a greater threat than Christianity because for the most part Christians don’t really believe their bronze age book and Muslims do. (for any of those who say that Christians do believe their book, why aren’t you killing anyone who works on a Sunday? Plenty more examples but that should suffice for now) My goal is for all of the world to have secular governments that respect human rights including the freedom to worship. Religious dominated governments tend to be very bad at this so I will fight hammer and tong to keep our government from becoming any more religious.
In response to the argument above that being an atheist is “faith based” because we can’t “know” there’s not a god…. I like to think of it this way. Based on all available evidence, lets say there’s a .000001 to the millionth power chance that there is a god. (never mind for the moment which god.) I think of calling myself an atheist rather than an agnostic in that situation as simply rounding down to avoid confusion.
Also, because I’m not a believer in supernatural sky dudes, I have no problem in condemning intolerances and injustices in each of these various religions whether it be priests preying on youths, torturing people to get the “demons” out, stoning under sharia, Christian scientists watching their children die, etc. etc. etc.
So as a bottom line, this atheist is not for Islam.
TO: Irrlicht
RE: Good Governance….er….Grief
I’m an atheist and don’t want to see any sky god worship having anything to do with the governance of the nation. — Irrlicht
If it weren’t for the belief of all those people who believe in the ‘sky god’ and their impact on governance, you’d be either a Muslim or dead.
Too bad you, and your associates, can’t quite grasp that.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Atheist, n., One praying to God that He doesn't exist.]
There is an uncomfortable level of support in the Atheist community for Islam. Many of my fellow atheists are ready eager and very willing to criticize christianity, but will vehemently defend islam against any criticism.
I regard all religions as misguided, but Islam is more dangerous to the security and well-being of humanity than all other religions. We live among Christians and they do not behead us, but if our society was Islamic, then our hats would not have heads to rest upon.
Women would be reduced to the position of second-tier humans, and gays would face the rope. In light of this, I say islam is far worse than christianity for atheists.
Sounds strange. Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris have singled out Islam as being a nastier than average religion. I agree. Phony Christains (Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin) are much scarier than real Christians.
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