Israel’s Fate Hangs in the Balance: Is Benny Morris’s new Assessment Right?
The fate of Israel should be of concern not to just Jews and Israelis, but to everyone who lives in the United States. No one has made that point more powerfully than Pastor John C. Hagee at Restoration Weekend. You can find the video and text of his speech here. Pastor Hagee’s effort in creating Christians United for Israel, which now has 500,000 members and is undoubtedly the most effective lobbying group on behalf of Israel in the country, speaks for itself. The good pastor knows that the West is in a war against radical Islam, and that the Jewish people are, as he puts it, “the canary in our coalmine.”
He goes on to say that “it is the Jewish State in particular that serves as the West’s warning system. America must wake up to the understanding that Iran fully intends to destroy the United States of America. When someone threatens to kill you, you should take it seriously. We must recognize those who threaten Israel have the United States in their sights. To anyone with eyes to see and ears that hear, it is clear that Israel is in the greatest danger it has faced since six Arab armies tried to strangle the Jewish State in the birth canal in 1948.” He then made this point:
“Your fight is our fight; your enemies are our enemies. We’re in this together to the end. Ladies and gentlemen, it’s a new day in America. The sleeping giant of Christian Zionism has awakened. Christians are joining Jews in speaking out against militant Islam. As you know, Ahmadinejad poses a threat to the State of Israel that promises nothing less than a nuclear holocaust.”
There is no ambivalence or equivocation in Pastor Hagee’s words. He says, point blank: “Once again, those who would appease seek to do so at the expense of Israel. Israel is always the one called upon to sacrifice. They tell us that if we want the Sunnis and the Shiites to stop massacring each other in Iraq, then Israel must give up land. And if we want the Syrians and Hezbollah to stop murdering the leaders of Lebanon, then Israel must give up land. And if we want the Saudis to permit women to drive or vote, the obvious answer is that Israel should give up more land.”
He knows why there is no peace, and the answer is simple: “The problem is Arab rejection of Israel’s right to exist. The problem is Israel does not have a legitimate partner for peace. The problem is radical Islam’s bloodthirsty embrace of a theocratic dictatorship that believes they have a mandate from God to kill Christians and Jews. The problem is the failure of moderates in the Arab and Muslim world to stand up and rein in these Islamic terrorists.”
This is the truth that seems to elude not only President Barack Obama, but so many of the would-be wise men in our own country. All this came to mind when I read the very depressing but necessary assessment by Israeli historian Benny Morris, which appears in the new edition of Tablet magazine. Both Morris, an Israeli, and Pastor Hagee, an American Christian Zionist, know how serious an enemy Israel and America face, and both know that little time remains to tell the world that they must now, before it is too late, force our allies and our government to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear bomb.
Morris raises the issue of the elusive and evidently never-ending search of each new presidential administration to revive the so-called “peace process,” which, as we all know, is more of a joke than it ever was. He raises the issue of what is standing in the way of a two-state solution, that of a Palestinian state living in peace next to its neighbor Israel, and which the various doves in American Jewish circles — primarily the J-Street crowd and the now rather lame Americans for Peace Now group — constantly proclaim is their effort, and which they argue can be reached if only Israel makes necessary concessions.
The truth is that existed in 1947, when the UN voted on Nov.29 to create a Jewish and an Arab state side by side in the old British Mandate, which was due to be given up on May 15th of 1948. The Arab side, as my wife and I related in our book A Safe Haven: Harry S. Truman and the Founding of Israel, was put forth most clearly in a pamphlet published by the Arab League. It stated: “The whole Arab people is unalterably opposed to the attempt to impose Jewish immigration and settlement upon it, and ultimately to establish a Jewish State in Palestine.” They vowed to drench the Holy Land “with the last drop of our blood in the lawful defense of all and every inch of it.” Their demand was simple: “No partition, no further Jewish immigration and no Jewish State.” They would only accept what they called an “independent, democratic Arab state, embracing all of Palestine.” Of course it would be an Islamic state, and Jews would be in a status of dhimmitude, accepting their given role as a small minority beholden to Islamic law and rule.
After I read the, “people want Israel to give more concessions,” I gave up reading. Any one with half a brain knows appeasement does’t work. Has any other party given Israel any thing any time it gives up some thing, besides more grief, terror, and to demand more concessions? One of the biggest problem I see is that people assume those that hate are reasonable people. On top of this, they are dealing with people who grew up in a different culture and society. Have they even bothered to review history about these people they support? I must admit, I am a bit baffled by these, “elites.” Then again, I guess I am jsut a dumb, old hick. What do I know?
Thank you for the excellent column.
But this administration will not act.
Nuclear Iran is the big goal of the internationalists, of the subversives.
This administration is very successful in weakening America, economically and militarily. The iranian bomb will be another success of the marxists.
Of course they are stupid, they ride the islamist tiger against Western Freedom and they don’t understand that the islamist tiger will eat them too.
But ideology does not allow them to think, and neither does hate.
I have limited areas of expertise. I am not an economist, although I have taken advanced courses in economics and accounting. I am not a scientist, although I have taken advanced courses in statistics and some of the physical sciences.
So, when I comment on those issues, it is from a stance of an educated lay person.
But, I do have extensive background experiences and training in mediation, negotiations and law.
And the first rule of a negotiation/mediation is that it will not work based upon one side’s intransigence built upon a mountain of lies. If you cannot agree on basic facts, foundational issues and an honest assessment of the truth underlying the matter, you have little hope of reaching any meaningful resolution.
Moreover, if third parties are intentionally undermining the process (such as the U.N. and numerous Arab states as well as state-sponsored hate groups), then the process itself is derailed before it begins.
I also believe there is an enormous difference between appeasement , capitulation, and blackmail.
The left has been forging a Big Lie about Palestinian “displacement”, “refugee status” and has been haranguing Israel at every turn, staging photo events, falsifying provocative acts posing as “relief” efforts, propping up phony reports of mindless violence BY Israel, but never telling the truth about the incessant violence AGAINST Israel.
The left has a “point of view” and as it always does, it lies, cheats, steals, photoshops and distorts with impunity. Always against Israel and America, each time, every time.
This administration has been horrific and their acts abhorrent in this regard, mirroring the kneejerk leftist reactionary and mindless drivel that passes for “debate” on the “two state”… solution .
You cannot mangle the equation by falsifying the “given”, distorting the variables and then coming to a solution in Satan’s Syllogism.
Whether this administration intentionally wishes to weaken Israel’s position in the world or they are doing so by abject incompetence and lack of diplomacy skills, nets the same result.
Israel is surrounded by enemies and the view of their friends is diminishing as we speak.
You make great points.
I cannot see how anyone can accept that negotiations should occur without the explicit recognition of Israel’s right to exist.
I found this article interesting and the comments I have read are also interesting but so very misguided and uninformed but I would not have suspected anything else. It seems that no one is willing to admit that the Zionist Criminals came into Palestine because no one else wanted them and instead of making any peaceful attempts with the people who lived there which by the way were Jews, Christains and Muslims, who had lived side by side with relatively no problems, the Zionist came forcibly in and took over. Does anyone know the history of this takeover? No you don’t and probably don’t care to know. It is horrific and continues to be horrific today. What you read and see in the news is filtered lies. It would make one think that poor Isreal is the victim when in actuality they are the ones who use bulldozers, american made, to demolish homes, and businesses, kill children, older people, destroy their olive gardens, make them carry I.D. to live in their country, control their water and electricity, build settlements, and the list goes on. I do not condone violence by either side but let’s be realistic Isreal is the monster in this situation and they are the ones who have killed more people then anyone wants to admit.
Your diatribe is just that. I get so ANGRY when I hear this drivel.
Look at what Israel has done for the people of their country and even the Arabs living within their borders.NOW,look across the borders to see what the Arabs have done for their peoples.
I don’t have to describe the difference,it is clear,and proof is to see how many Arabs are living safely and happily in Israel.
Don’t lie anymore,just tell the truth.You will find it makes you free.
Your post is suspiciously light on citations.
Many Israelis moved there in the early 1900s to escape routine antisemitism among Europeans. They were allowed to purchase land under the Ottoman Empire. Their title to that land is as legitimate as any self professed Palestinian.
As for the ID card: ALL Israelis carry it. An Arab resident carries one too. Your assertion is very misleading.
Further, of all those who have occupied the middle east, the Israelis are alone among those who actually worked to lift up the quality of living among all inhabitants. Israel is filled with Jews who were thrown out of Arab countries after the war of Independence. Israel could easily have returned that favor, but chose not to in the hopes that they might forge a peace with the Palestinians.
It hasn’t happened.
When the Palestinian leadership stops their focus on fundamentalist Islam, learn how to compromise, and how to build instead of destroy, there will be peace. Until then, there will be war and they will lose even more.
Peace…
The area now called Israel was a depopulated and desolated land before the return of the Jews, to their land. They alone, restored the area to it’s present milk and honey status.
While it is good and right that Americans support Israel, the only effective answer to these dilemmas will be found in a Jewish, Zionist revival, one in which large numbers of secular-liberal Israelis and semi-assimilated foreign Jews adopt viewpoints that terrify most secular people. By this I don’t mean necessarily that everyone ‘gets religion’, but that there is a reawakening among world Jewry for the future.
Ironically, the great energies that many Jewish Americans spend (spent?) trying to convince the powerful non-Jews and JINOs (Kissinger, etc.) are mostly wasted from the pov of Israel’s future.
While it’s commendable that Benny Morris has moved away from his Guilt-is-Me/oy gevalt writings of the past, he remains an example of an ‘enlightened’ Israeli who lacks faith in the country’s future. Partly it is the result of hanging around with other ‘enlightened’ people, nearly all of whom either deny the threats or balk instinctively and reliably at moving ‘right.’
It is important to note that what is often described as ‘right-wing’ and ‘extremist’ in Israeli politics is not really that, but the effects of post-Zionist ‘cool’ and the control of the media by the equivocators makes it a superhuman effort for people like Morris to escape the trap.
And, ultimately, Mr. Radosh’s prescription for saving Israel – massive American public support translated to political action – will fall short. The American policymakers do not have the beliefs, training or character to make such a shift from the reliable ‘security for Israel can only come through peace’ noise.
Excellent column! You are spot on. The appeasement nonsense can never help American interest.
I am similar to cfbleachers, who says he has limited areas of experise and education, except that my areas of education and expertise are much more limited. However, one thing that I have observed is that the choice of who will lead our country and therefor the direction of our foreign and defense policy is made by the millions of votes cast by voters who, overwhelmingly, are not experts in these areas.
And its a good thing! As this article points out, and as any ordinary person with ANY common sense should be able to see, the “experts” are as wrong as they can possibly be. The elites are too full of themselves to be honest with themselves. It really doesn’t take a genius to tell the good guys from the bad guys in the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Pasor Hagee is doing the world a service. I salute him.
This problem of a nuclear Iran is largely Barack Obama’s doing. It isn’t just because Obama is personally, religiously, and politically hostile and antagonistic towards Israel, given his Moslem background he is unable and unwilling to use any serious pressure on Iran, a Moslem state.
America is already paying an intolerable price for having elected an inexperienced, immature, and wholly amateurish Moslem/Christian anti Semite like Barack Obama to the Presidency, but pretty soon Israel, the Persian Gulf Arab states, and most of Europe will be under the Iranian nuclear gun.
All because of Barack Hussein Obama.
Barack hussein Obama isn’t the only one unwilling to act. Saudi Arabia should but can’t act that would unleash a shit storm. the destruction caused by one nuclear bomb detonated in any city of Israel, won’t stop at the border. boom and Gaza west bank is also depopulated, as long as the Jews are destroyed the Arabs don’t care. Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq are down wind. what does Amadinajad care, he likes killing fellow muslims.
Having been in Egypt for 9 months and talked to people from other Arab nations, the big elephant in the room is indeed that muslims real goal in regard to Israel is to have no Israel. There is no wish for a 2 state solution. There is a pretense of fair play but in reality Zionism in okay as long as it is a muslim version.
In regard to Hagee I see him as a lunatic, opportunist and religious pedant who thinks he is an expert in everything. To me he is a pro-American version of Rev. Wright.
As far as Iran goes, the nuclear genie has been out of the bottle a long time and there is nothing to be done about it. One can only delay it but in doing so only further radicalize nations like N. Korea and Iran against the West who are going to have these weapons eventually anyway.
Iran is a sovereign nation and no one has the right to tell them what to do. They have their spies and agents and we have ours. Our best hope as regards foreign policy in that region is to go all out to develop a way to heat our homes and power our cars without oil. Iran will run out of oil soon enough and in fact cannot even refine enough of their own. Without oil or with oil that is worthless, these countries will bankrupt themselves into oblivion.
Once oil is taken out of the picture these countries can go back to being the sleepy backwaters they actually are. Islam’s only trump card is their birth rate and the willingness of moronic governments like the US to allow them into the US. Ironically, many Americans don’t want muslims in America for the same reasons Palestinian Arabs didn’t want Jewish immigrants.
All legal immigration to the US should be stopped and the illegals here systematically weeded out and deported – all 12 million. To not do so means all the maneuvering of the US is for naught since we are being pulled down from within. The real muslim bomb is the boom you hear from their baby boom.
Well said.
About 10 years ago I read Pat Buchanan’s work “The Death of the West”. He suggests that Israel will be out of existence in 50 years simply by population dynamics. The Israelis, being western, are not having children. The Palestinians are have litters. Do the math.
Iran will have the bomb. There will be a nuclear conflagration. Perhaps then there will be peace.
Israel depends on its more orthodox citizens. These are the ones who are not ashamed of being Jewish—and have more than 1.2 children. The more secular Israelis are also inclined toward utopian fantasies and polices of appeasement. They must be politely but firmly marginalized.
And the ultra orthodox won’t serve in the military – and won’t work much either – so their population growth is as much a burden as a demographic escape. -PB
BEWARE, Pat Buchanan is simply wrong about this; this is Palestinian propaganda with no basis in fact that has made its way around the globe and is taken as gospel. Birthrates are up for Israeli Jews and leveling off for Israeli Arabs. Caroline Glick of the Jerusalem Post has written a number of compelling articles on the subject. YOU CAN HELP TO STOP SPREADING FALSE PALESTINIAN PROPAGANDA by doing a little research.
Ironically, many Americans don’t want muslims in America for the same reasons Palestinian Arabs didn’t want Jewish immigrants.
In American society Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews integrate into a secular civil society while maintaining their individual religious cultures and respecting those of the others. Muslims on the other hand represent a culture counter opposed to the the values of the other religions and are intent on forcing their theocratic culture on all the others, with violence if necessary.
As for the Palestinians not wanting Jewish immigrants well the truth be told the Arabs didn’t want the Jews they had in their lands and with riots and many deaths from the early 1900s they chased almost one million Jews from their midst many of whom went to Israel where they received citizenship. They form the bulk of Israeli Jews to chagrin of those who rely on the “colonizing” European Jew .
Sympathetic people sometimes fall for this “right of return” idea; after all, why should innocent people have to suffer for others’ misdeeds. We cannot too often point out that this right is entirely fanciful and in the form claimed by the Arabs exists nowhere else.
A few months ago I read a book about the Russo-Finnish War of 1939-40. As a result of naked, raw aggression the Soviet Union grabbed off a few thousand square miles of Finland and expelled 400,000 Karelian Finns who left with nothing but what they could carry. Not one of them is in a refugee camp today, nor is anyone talking about compensation for what they lost, let alone a return.
Same for the Sudeten Germans, eastern Poles, Volga Germans, the other thirty million or so displaced people after World War II–or the millions of Hindus and Muslims after partition, or the Ionian Greeks and Salonikan Turks forced out of their homes after the First World War.
And certainly no one makes a fuss about the Jews forced out of Arab lands after 1948, again with only what they could carry. Coincidentally, the number of such people is about equivalent to the number of Arabs who left what became Israel for various reasons. Even to bring this up is “divisive.” No one talks about their right of return or compensation for lost property.
Only the Palestinian Arabs for some reason have this right. And Mr. Radosh’s main point is both correct and easily verifiable–not one Palestinian leader, not one, has ever suggested that there can be any peace without effectuation of “the right of return.”
The solution of course is more concessions from Israel.
Only the Palestinian Arabs for some reason have this right.
The reason being that of all the conflicts that generated refugees only this one has Jews involved as the opposing force.
Looking back on the Arab/Israeli conflict one will find that every time the Arabs get themselves into a bind along comes the West, for one, with finance and rhetoric to get them up and going again.
Had the West truly wanted they could have resolved this conflict in the late 1940s early 50s and prevented the UN from creating an Arab refugee class in perpetuity.
As Romirovsky in his A Tale of Two Galloways: Notes on the Early History of UNRWA and Zionist Historiography
Shows from
Ironically, many Americans don’t want muslims in America for the same reasons Palestinian Arabs didn’t want Jewish immigrants.
I think allowing Muslim immigration into America is short-sighted and foolish. It denies the history of Islam. I don’t understand the second part of this sentence. Are you suggesting that there are Jews emigrating to “Palestine”?
Prior to 1948.
It shouldn’t take a great deal of intelligence to understand that the politicians, involved in obtaining the so called “peaceful solution” to the tension in the Middle East, have only the desire for some makeshift solution so that they can claim “success” and pass the problem to someone else. With quasi governmental states such as Hamas, Hezbollah, and others, the despicable Ahmadinejad, and ill concealed hostility of the Arab states, little can be achieved by discussion. Israel must receive the firm backing of the United States. It cannot survive otherwise. The alternative is utterly unpredictable except that it will be disastrous.
RE Radosh mention of Morris’ piece in Tablet:
I found a very strange notion/ comparison in Morris’ piece, notion/ comparison I simply cannot see how could contribute to the establishment of a political framework for Israel/ Palestine peace – below is the quote:
[...] our age, it may turn out, resembles the classic age of appeasement, the 1930s, when the Western democracies (and the Soviet Union) were ranged against, but preferred not to confront, Nazi Germany and its allies, Fascist Italy, and expansionist Japan. During that decade [...]
Soviet Union, a 3rd. Reich appeaser in the 1930-s? How’s that?
Leaving aside the genocidal activities within the Soviet Union, that polity was actively engaged in inflicting its schemes all over the world – from Spain to Europe (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Molotov-Ribbentrop), to the Extreme Orient, the Soviet Union was an active architect of the incoming WWII -
Why Morris mentions the Soviet Union as an appeaser, I don’t understand -
Re Hagee: Timeo Danaos et donas ferents -
The much vauted Israel-US evanghelical christians is opportunistic and hollow -
While the Israelis find in it some comfort and support, they should also be aware that Haggee and his fellows are actually engaged in a larger, proselytizing-engulfing operation – the idea of christianizing the Israel population being always in in their mind when acting in Israel’s benefit -
Misanthropicus, I am not sure if you are correct but even if you are what choice do Pro-Israelis have? I’ll worry about conversion problems later and worry about the bomb today! It’s kind of like if a man had a gun to my head and an Anti-Semite could save my life-would I turn it down? I do not think so.
If you watch the video of Pastor Hagee’s keynote speech at Restoration Weekend , you will hear him say, that at the assembly at which he formed CUFI, he asked the 400 representatives of Christian organizations present whether they would be a part of the effort to support Israel with absolutely no attempt at conversion. Immediately 400 hands shot up both in agreement to the plan to support Israel and in acceptance of the principle of no conversion attempts.
Anyone who watches his speech will be impressed by his sincerity and his keen understanding of the politics regarding Israel, the intimidation of citizens and students here in North America, and how to use the power of CUFI’s large membership to influence Legislative and Executive bodies in this country.
Amongst Jews, we have a term for a man of such moral caliber – a righteous Gentile.
God bless him and protect him and keep him and give him all the strength he needs for his enormous undertaking.
http://www.davidhorowitztv.com/restorationweekend/2010/316-hagee
Yeah, by electing Sarah Palin in 2012, but Pajamias media instead finds it useful to mount snide attacks on her.
Ron, let’s accept what you say as true: that the Palestinians do not want a 2-state solution.
Why is Israel settling the West Bank? Someone might think it doesn’t want a viable 2-state solution either. You ignored this issue.
Why shouldn’t Jews live in Judea and Samaria, the homeland of the Jews? the name “West Bank” is used to cover this up. Why shouldn’t Israel have settlers in land that it conquered in war? Should Silesia not be part of Poland, since it was conquered by the allies against Germany in World War II? Should Alsace-Lorraine be returned from France to Germany since it became part of France after the defeat of Germany?
Thanks for being honest about it. It’s the first time I’ve heard the term conquered in this connection. It’s way easier to deal with that way.
Wherever Israel wants its borders, it should make that border absolutely clear, fixed and final – NOW. It should have clear physical markings that says “Israel”. There should be no duplicity and no negotiations about potential Palestinian States. The non Israeli citizens already living there prior to the conquering should either be removed by force now or have Israeli citizenship now. It should be made clear who actually owns the land. Every inch of dirt should have a deed of ownership signed and stamped by the Israeli government.
If there ever was a problem, it’s not that Israel conquered land, it’s that it does not finish the job. Or are doing it way to slowly. They are pussyfooting around the issue. They want it both ways. They both want the goodies of conquering land and also be considered “good guys” by the world community. Make a choice. It’s one or the other. Be a conquering Imperialist and be it proudly. Or respect the unwritten “rule” that basically nobody conquers anything after becoming member of the UN. Nobody respects the, I’m sorry to say, weasel approach currently being used by the Israeli government.
An official statement should be made that says: “We conquered this land in a defensive war. It’s their own fault they attacked us. This land is now ours. Deal with it”. With a big fat emphasis on “defensive war” because thats where the goodwill is.
What they shouldn’t do is talk about how that land historically belonged to Israel 100 years ago or 2000 years ago. Because that’s a can of worms. And nobody gives a shit. Just think about America, Europe or Africa. Who owned what land in America 2000 years ago or Africa 100 years ago? No country can return what they took 100, 500 or 2000 years ago. And we are fast approaching a point where Israel can’t and shouldn’t give back what they took 40 years ago.
Get it over with.
You’re ignoring the history behind this real problem. When Israel captured the Sinai, it happily gave it up within a few years to Egypt in exchange for official peace (that hasn’t helped it really on the ground) just so that it would say on paper: We’re not at war with you. The Sinai could have been a valuable resource in a few ways, but Israel gave it up for what is a very cold peace.
The Israeli leadership after 67 would have happily given the majority of the west bank right back to Jordan for an exchange of peace (although probably not all of Jerusalem). No one ever returned their calls regarding the west bank, so they left it officially “unannexed” in the hopes that eventually someone would want to take it for peace.
43 years later, Israel is stuck with a west bank which is very different from the west bank it captured with a significant amount of their own population settling on what was de facto theirs. They are trying to continue their old policy of “maybe we’ll exchange it for peace, don’t announce any boarder changes,” but it doesn’t work because the original occupier, Jordan, doesn’t want it back, and the Palestinians refuse to accept any boarders but pre-1967, including cutting Jerusalem in half, with the better half on their side naturally. The only simulation of a boarder is the separation wall to keep west bank terrorists out.
Even if Israel were to recognize this reality, their (inevitably unilateral) declaration of official boarders would have to penetrate the 67 boarder to encompass where they have grown, possibly inviting a regional war if not a large uprising from the Palestinians themselves (again, who refuse anything less than 100%), and kicking out hundreds of thousands of their own residents (as opposed to a mere 10,000 in Gaza) is untenable to restore 67 boarders. Also untenable would be accepting 3 million residents who hate your guts and at best would work hard to overturn the government democratically, so Israel continues to not want 100% of the land either.
Further, any annexation would never work as it would never be recognized regardless of Israel’s declaration. Israel officially annexed the Golan Heights, but as far as the parties involved outside of Israel are concerned, it’s still “illegally occupied.” This is just a small glance at the problems. It’s not so simple as just saying “It’s ours” or “It’s not”. The middle east is a land mine, no matter which way you step. The best thing, ironically, is to do as little as possible and just maintain the status quo.
If there ever was a problem, it’s not that Israel conquered land, it’s that it does not finish the job.
Basically they were never allowed to finish the job.
I believe that Eisenhower even admitted after leaving office that it was wrong to have forced Israel to retreat from Sinai in 1956 without a proper political resolution to the conflict with Egypt.
Then again, Kissinger pulled several dirty stunts to stymie Israel having a complete victory over Egypt in the 1973 war and so on.
SHALOM;Israel arrives its title deed of its the land from the GOD of TRUTH who took Abraham and his seed ,even Isaac seed ownership ,described in detail its borders [Genesis 12.1-3,15.18-21,Isaiah 11,Jeremiah 31 .31-40].In those SCRIPTURES GOD made sure that he will keep his promise as he has in the past when he send his SON YESHUA of Nazareth ,KING of Israel[Luke 1-32,Romans 1,9-11,Revelation ] into the world .Thus fulfilling the WORD of GOD as GOD the FATHER has promised to YESHUA w ho died,was buried and rose from the death on the third day[Matthew 16.21] and now done his work did ascend to heaven and come back again to Jerusalem,even mount Oliveth [Acts 1.1-12,17.22-34],He is Davids greater SON [Psalm 110,Matthew 22.43-45] by virtue, being born in Bethlehem[Micah 5.2].GOD called his SON out of EGYPT[Hosea 11.1 ,Matthew 2].The case is closed .There is no excuse ever to demand of Israel to deny its birthright to the land and all other promises made by the HOLY ONE of ISRAEL to his own. Such an act is high treason ,similar to Esau[Genesis 25,Hebrews 12.16] and is not acceptable ever.This advise is nothing more then evil and would lead to forsake the GOD of Israel who has promised his LOVE and FAITHFULNESS[Psalm 89,Romans 9-11] to his people .
I used the KING JWMES BIBLE.
John
If we as a nation allow one unqualified, of little real life experience, untenured lecturer/community organizer to determine our foreign policy towards Israel we will deserve whatever wrath The Lord decides to visit upon us.
Hmm. So, we’ve got a couple of million arabs living in the west bank, and about 1.5 million living in gaza. About 3.5 million arabs currently live within the boundaries of what we generally know as israel. Those people can’t vote in israeli elections, so they have no legitimate say in the policies of the state that basically determines what happens to them. Half of them are having their land gradually taken away, and the other half lives under a military blockade. That’s a problem. Until you solve that problem, israel will remain a bad guy in the minds of many perfectly sensible, fair people.
So what does israel do with these people? Do they:
- Properly annexe the land into israel and let the arabs pay state taxes and vote? That’d the be the “single-state solution”. I don’t think anyone likes that one. The arabs don’t want to be part of an officially jewish state, and the israelis don’t want the arabs stuffing up their demographics as a jewish state.
- Give them their own state, thus removing them from israel permanently? That’d be the “two state solution”, but it means officially handing over land, therefore arguing over what land needs to be handed over.
- Does israel annex the land but NOT give those arabs the vote, or citizenship?
- Does israel annex the land and drive the arabs out?
- Does israel just keep doing what it’s doing right now, and gradually extend the effective borders of israel into those disputed territories on the sly, by gradually extending the settlement boundaries and taking land that legally belongs to arabs without any compensation?
The “giving up land” claim is disingenuous – it’s an attempt to frame the debate in a way that disguises what’s actually going on. Israel currently wants the best of both worlds – the ability to extend its borders into arab territories, but without having to recognize or compensate the arabs who live there. It’s not a question of “giving up land”. At this stage, the problem is how to stop israel from TAKING land. If the west bank and gaza are part of israel, then the people who live there should be israeli citizens. If they’re not, then it’s not israeli land and the settlements have to go, or israel needs to purchase the land at a price set by the previous owners. That seems obvious enough to me. I don’t care what you think of jews or arabs, the status quo is just wrong. It’s not something that americans would accept.
I’ll just repeat the figure: 3.5+ million arabs currently living withing the borders of “israel” but not recognized as citizens. That’s your problem to solve. Just tell me what you’re going to do about them. If ethnic cleansing is your preferred option, then just say it.
Feel free to post lots of clever and original accusations of anti-semitism … now.
“Just tell me what you’re going to do about them. If ethnic cleansing is your preferred option, then just say it.”
Now, ask yourself, what solution would your Arab friends have for a problem like that?
They had a similar problem of those Jews living in “Islamic” lands?
Their ‘perfect man’ Mohammed gave them the solution almost 1400 years ago…..
Hijra year 5 (627 AD), Almost nine hundred Jews of a Medinan tribe named Banu Qurayza were massacred by Muslims in one day. Muhammad, the prophet of Islam was the lead spectator of this inhumane butchery which began early in the day, ending in torchlight. Those who escaped death were taken captive by Muslims and sold in slave markets. This genocide is known in history as the Banu Qurayza incident.
No pussyfooting around!
Discrimination, murder, genocide, expulsion has been part of the muslim solution of the Jewish problem for more than 1400 years.
And just in the last few years….
Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries: from Morocco to Iran, from Turkey to Yemen, including places where they had lived for TWENTY CENTURIES. Jewish communities were expelled either in their entirety or almost so. Communities of some significance remain in Iran, Turkey, Morocco, and Tunisia. All the countries that expelled Jews have one thing in common: they belong to Islam (including Turkey and Iran, which are not Arab countries). However, it is hard to view this exodus as a whole. It largely took place over a thirty-year period (1940-1970) and covered a huge geographical area, from Morocco to Iran, from Turkey to Yemen.
Read “The Expulsion of the Jews from Muslim Countries, 1920-1970: A History of Ongoing Cruelty and Discrimination” by Shmuel Trigano.
Most muslim countries, Gaza and Judea and Samaria, you will be pleased to know, are now Judenrein.
Right of return anyone?
I agree with you Andy, I think the Palestinians are the actual occupiers on land where they don’t belong. I have long wondered why the Jews don’t expel them like the Jews were expelled from lands where had lived for thousands of years.
This situation can’t go on indefinitely. One side is ultimately going to win and the other is going to lose. Heaven help us if it is the Arabs who win.
I’ll just respond to one inaccurate thing you said. The Arabs who live within Israeli proper ARE Israeli citizens and can and do vote in elections.
About 3.5 million arabs currently live within the boundaries of what we generally know as israel. Those people can’t vote in israeli elections, so they have no legitimate say in the policies of the state that basically determines what happens to them.
Where did you get this from?
The Arabs who live in Israel have all the the rights that the Jews have. They serve in the supreme Court, they vote both for the well know political parties and for their own nationalistic parties, they have representatives in the Israeli Knesset, they have officers high up in the police force and Bedouin and Druze form part of the officer class in the army, they form part of the academics in the universities and head departments in the hospitals and in this week’s tragic loss of life in the brush fire several were Arabs working for the prison service.
Either you’re ignorant or you are deliberately lying. If it’s the later than the term Jew-hater fits.
The million or so Arabs living within Israel proper are Israeli citizens, with full voting rights. About 10% of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, are Arabs who have the right to hold office, despite the fact that most are disloyal.
Compare this to Jordan, where a Jew, by law, cannot be a citizen, to the Palestinian Authority which has a death penalty for the crime of selling land to Jews, and Saudi Arabia, which simply doesn’t allow Jews to enter the country.
With reguards to Iran and there nuclear project I say blessings to/on stuxnet that blessed worm/virus and the wonderful effect it has had on the iranian nuclesr project. Was it “W” or Isreal devine intervention. Who cares. Blessings stuxnet.
Matthew,
You say, “At this stage, the problem is how to stop israel from TAKING land. If the west bank and gaza are part of israel, then the people who live there should be israeli citizens. If they’re not, then it’s not israeli land and the settlements have to go, or israel needs to purchase the land at a price set by the previous owners.”
Do you know anything about contemporary Israeli/Middle-Eastern history? Let me help you with a few facts:
1) There are no more Israeli settlements in Gaza — did you forget that Israel left Gaza to promote peace? How did that work out for them?
2) All Israeli settlements have been purchased (do you claim there are Arabs who say the Israeli government owes them money for land in the West Bank?) and if someday there is peace, the Israeli government will force the settlers to leave the settlements if necessary. Although why they shouldn’t be able to live in an Arab country is an interesting question — as Ron points out, roughly 1.5 million Israeli Arabs currently live in Israel proper with full citizenship rights.
3) Israel can’t just abandon the West Bank until they have assurances that the Palestinian government is serious about peace. They don’t want to have to go to war as soon as they leave. Hence the present sad situation that nobody is happy with.
Iran will probably be able to produce a nuclear weapon in about 12 months. If they keep getting help from the Chinese and the Russians, they will also probably have a working nuclear weapon not long after that. This will set the entire Middle East on fire and we simply do not have a president, let alone a Secretary of State, that is up to the task of bringing down the Iranians.
The only thing we can do in this race against time is to commit all of our resources into a massive covert war inside Iran and hope that we can still, even at this late date, encourage the Iranian people to rebel against the mullahs and the Republican Guards. Invading or bombing Iran really isn’t an option. That would cost thousands of lives and would probably destroy most of the country. But if we had a very big covert operation to overthrow the mullahs in power, we would stand a good chance in obtaining regime change without too much bloodshed AND gain the support of the Iranian people. It really is the only option we have left, or else risk falling into a confrontation with Iran that is going to make the Cuban Missile Crisis look like a joke.
#17 “It really is the only option we have left, or else risk falling into a confrontation with Iran that is going to make the Cuban Missile Crisis look like a joke.”
It takes at least two to have a confrontation. Who is going to confront the Iranians? Obama? Obama will not confront the Iranians because he secretly supports Iran’s nuclear program. Obama is a graduate of the Bill Ayers/Noam Chomski school of anti-Americanism. This school’s fundamental tenet is that America is to be weaken by ANY means necessary. One of the Left’s primary international goals is the expulsion of the America from the Middle East. If Obama wins a second term in 2012, there WILL be a second holocaust.
Only one thing will save Israelis: doing what has to be done – whether that is launching against Iran or expelling all the Israeli Arabs or totally denying access to Israel to the Palestinians – and not giving a damn, not giving one whit about the inevitable caterwauling from the “The International Community.”
The only reason Israel will not attack Iran in the near future, or anyone else for that matter, is because of Obama. Because of him America is no longer a trusted ally, would you trust Hussein baby?
The Author’s attribution of “otherness” is best left with T. Austin-Sparks, to be sure.
Forgotten is that with a stroke of the pen Winston Churchill allotted to the Jews a fraction of the land they were entitled to. Let Jordan step up if you please. For the love of God, Israel was never Palestine, it has always been Israel.
What is it about Islam that drives its truest believers bananas? Does it pump up a pre-existing tendency toward fanaticism? Is there a secret code somewhere in the Koran?
Even in a war with the Israelis the Mullahs will quickly find out that they’ve bitten off more than they can chew. But what’s fanaticism for if it isn’t about surprises?
Before the Mullahs are through they are going to get even more Iranian killed. Maybe the regime haters in that country had this uppermost in mind recently when they were trying to bring Ahmadinejad and the boys down. Anyone with a brain should wish them luck.
It is worth adding that Churchill’s decisions and the expressions of Britains anti-semitism precipitated and solidified the end of their Empire.
Is Israel the canary? I think not. This bird will be sole survivor.
You can take that to the bank.
The only part of the article that has any slight relevancy is:
["Both Morris, an Israeli, and Pastor Hagee, an American Christian Zionist, know how serious an enemy Israel and America face, and both know that little time remains to tell the world that they must now, before it is too late, force our allies and our government to stop Iran from obtaining a nuclear bomb."]
The “period” should have been placed following Iran.
Sixty-three years of intellectualizing intellectuals assessments and look at what remains in the region for Israel and much of the world for that matter. Israel should have long ago, been independent of the U.S. to take care of business and at the same time been assurd of American and allied forces support if need be.
The ONLY thing Iran should be doing today is rebuilding from a rubble pile. A rubble pile that would have put the entire Muslim world in check…and most of the rest of the world at the same time.
So much for all the intellectuals facilitating peace for the world! Theres only two ways to handle scholl yard bullies! Put him or her on their butts or run away like little sis’s.
Take Iran out and serve notice on Pakistan and Afghanistan!
Now, this is a national debt worth paying for, for a few years!
Correct. The Israelis have a history of taking out the nuclear projects of rogue states (Iraq & Syria), but they cannot do the same with Iran because the US fleet is sitting in the gulf. They will not do anything about the nuke plans in Iran themselves, nor will they issue the IFF codes to Israel, so what other conclusion can we come to but; the muslim President of the US has the fleet there to PROTECT the Iranians project from Israel.
The only reason the Arabs want a Palestinian state next door to Israel, is to provide a base for the final invasion and destruction of Israel. Have the Arabs not turned every bit of land returned to them so far, into armed camps used to assault Israel?
Hagee via Radosh: “Iran fully intends to destroy the United States of America.”
Other thoughts from Hagee, via Wikipedia:
In his book Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, Hagee interprets the Bible to predict that Russia and the Islamic states will invade Israel and will be destroyed by God. This will cause the antichrist, the head of the European Union, to create a confrontation over Israel between China and the West.
In another sermon, Hagee blamed American economic problems on the fact that the Federal Reserve System is controlled by “a group of Class A stockholders, including the Rothschilds.” In the same series, Hagee further asserted that the Rothschilds, who are Jewish, were part of a wide-ranging conspiracy of “international power brokers based in Europe.”
Hagee calls literature such as J. K. Rowling’s Harry Potter contemporary witchcraft.
The problem is the failure of moderates in the Arab and Muslim world to stand up and rein in these Islamic terrorists.” This is the truth that seems to elude not only President Barack Obama, but so many of the would-be wise men in our own country.
So how do you get the moderate Muslim world to stand up? Outreach must be the first step — exactly what Obama is trying to do.
Your view of things would seem to be sensible, realistic and accurate. And as you say the alternatives look bleak, for Israel and for the West.
When events become nasty, as presumably they must if there is no solution possible, then I suppose we can look forward to some extreme version of force. Such as WWII was to the 1930s.
With 21st Century technology that could become extremely violent and personally invasive, with computer technology monitoring every aspect possible of one’s personal life.
When I see a conflict that could be resolved by the application of common sense, and the refusal to apply common sense, and what the result of that refusal will be, then I am forced to conclude that, that result is actual the desired goal. What an awful, hideous mess they make.
Those who have purposefully or, more likely accidentally, become knowledgeable about Islam and it’s global conquest ambitions and methods have already come to the inescapable conclusion that a so called peace in the Middle East, meaning a two state solution or any peaceful solution of the Jewish, Palestinian conflict is an impossibility. That the West continues to ignore this fact and instead reverts to its preferred focus on Israeli intransigence rather than face the far more dangerous and lethal threat of Islamic hegemony should not be a surprise.
It’s simple human nature that is seen played out everyday as the West continually demonstrates its cowardice with sheepish displays of religious tolerance toward potentially violent Islamic protests, while loudly condemning or ignoring any and all of the opposition that represent no threat of physical violence whatsoever. And it’s infuriating to observe how sanctimoniously they go about it, head high, proud, arrogant and wallowing in self satisfaction, unaware or incapable of publicly admitting their cowardice. As when faced with Hitler and his formidable military power, appeasement is the first response until the threats suddenly become undeniable acts of war. Problem is undeniablity may not occur until a mushroom cloud appears somewhere on the horizon and Israel will likely be the preliminary target. Will the West wake up before this inevitability? Not if it continues it’s preferred posture of appeasement, no matter the obvious.
Geppetto….Excellent!
The era of my parents and myself, are the last generations in which the military was utilized constitutionally and properly. We made a statement to the world during those wars and especially WWII! We can now thank the brilliant minds who came up with the UN and the U.S. government who “allowed” themselves to become the UN’s policemen and “intellectual” mediators to the worlds problems.
The advancement of political and social ideologies are the [root problem] to all the worlds conflicts. The economic power and [once] success of America’s Constitutonal Democratic Republic and capitalism is a distant factor…..contrary to the populist rhetoric by either party or politicians claims such great intellect.
America has squandered its once great military pawn post WWII.
Anti Americans from [within] has facilitated the squandering of America’s [once] superior economic pawn sin the 60′s and 70′s.
Intellectuals have squandered the negotiating strategies that would have maintained a much better resembleance of world peace influenced by America’s governance, economic and military superiority.
Now, America has become every bit like our long term and more recent adversaries around the world competeing for ideological superiority except we now have no chips in the bank.
Think about it! From being feared and respected to not feared and not respected….and ironically, engaged in nation building around the world…using our military assessts with no intention or viable possbility of a military victory in the long term.
Haven’t we and most of the world had enough of America’s own anti-americans and all the useless so-called political and social intellectuals? We’re being forced by these element into a postions I don’t think is going to be very pretty or with any payoff for America long term. Even our closest socialist perpetuating allies are now agreeing with these points.
I have an idea how to restore the Traditional America here at home but, I fear there is not a solution to the loss of our world superiority for many generations to come….if ever!
Obama and all his ideological cronies is but the last, thus far of a long list of preceeding administrations to be selling out America’s once superiority around the world.
Sherbab Zangpo wrote, “Nuclear Iran is the big goal of the internationalists, of the subversives.
This administration is very successful in weakening America, economically and militarily. The iranian bomb will be another success of the marxists.”
These people who support restraint in the face of Iran’s fulfillment of its nuclear wet dream are not Marxists; nor are they internationalists or subversives. I frankly do not have a name for them. What I am sure of is that they are stupid, mean, and gutless. They do not have a considered opinion. They cannot run a simple, “if, then” scenario in their heads. I honestly believe that their goal is to promote a nuclear confrontation that will end in millions killed – many innocent along with the few guilty. They seek a naive simplification of life on the planet through a depopulation process. The suffering caused is just collateral damage. A green planet with one-hundred million people is preferable to a growth-oriented population of 7-9 billion souls scratching out a living on the hot brown earth. The screaming babies in pain would soon be silent in their ideal world.
You are exactly right Jerry. The Left elite are dedicated to extreme population reduction. They speak of it openly in their own circles. I know a few of these people. One of which is a noted ecology professor at UT Austin. Pianka. He got up on the podium at an awards dinner honoring him and stated that something like aerosolizing ebola was what is needed. This was reported in newspapers.
On the other hand it is to be regretted that Hagee has reached such prominence. I applaud the work he is doing but I can not stand the man. A bombastic populist with a cult-like following. His church is centered around HIM and he behaves like a rock star in my view. This is not the model Christ left us with. Hagee does as much harm, if not more, than good.
“Raishit Chachmah Yirat Hashem- The Beginning of Wisdom is the Fear of Hashem.”
Pastor Hagee is wonderful example of this eternal Truth.
Since the West will not, or can not, do anything to stop the spread of radical Islam, we must therefore resign ourselves to the fact that evil will take over the world soon and plunge all of us into darkness. Personally, I cannot believe that this is
G-d’s ultimate plan for humanity. It doesn’t make sense.
Shakeerah said— “Zionist Criminals came into Palestine because no one else wanted them and instead of making any peaceful attempts with the people who lived there which by the way were Jews, Christains and Muslims,” etc …
Holy Moley Shakeerah stop drinking caffeine you may wake up your brain!
geeez
Redball”6{“
On December 5, 2010, in Tel Aviv, Israel, Geert Wilders gave an excellent speech about the situation and what needs to be done.
Geert Wilders: “Jordan is Palestine”
“Geert Wilders in Tel Aviv: ‘Israel is an immense source of inspiration for me’”, Text of speech given by Geert Wilders in Tel-Aviv, Israel, on Dec. 5, 2010
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/12/geert-wilders-in-tel-aviv-israel-is-an-immense-source-of-inspiration-for-me.html
“Geert Wilders’ Speech in Tel Aviv”, Text of speech given by Geert Wilders in Tel Aviv, Israel, on Dec. 5, 2010
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/12/geert-wilders-speech-in-tel-aviv.html
Article with links to videos of the speech:
“Wilders Speech and Videos in Tel Aviv: ‘Jordan is Palestine’”, by Hugh Fitzgerald (on his blog The Iconclast)
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/31085
Here’s a quote you’ll like. David Ben-Gurion, speaking in Nazareth in 1947:
“Why are there so many Arabs here? Why haven’t you chased them away?”