Obama Faces New Opposition from America’s Jewish Voters
The latest polls on how Jewish Americans regard Barack Obama do not bode well for the Democratic Party or the Obama administration. A new survey by the American Jewish Committee shows that “forty-nine percent of U.S. Jews approve [of Obama], while 45 percent disapprove of the Obama Administration’s handling of U.S.-Israel relations, according to the new survey. AJC’s earlier survey, conducted in March, found that 55 percent approved and 37 percent disapproved. In AJC’s 2009 survey, 54 percent approved, and 32 percent disapproved.”
The majority still stays loyal to the Democratic Party, but clearly, recent events have led to the disillusionment of many. The drift of Jews away from the Obama administration was surveyed in the now famous article by Ed Klein and Richard Chesnoff that was spiked by Vanity Fair, whose only explanation for their action was that they found no room for it. The authors posted it instead on the Huffington Post, somewhat of an alternative, but hardly one that gave it the same impact had it appeared in the magazine as originally scheduled.
As the authors explain, “today, a sizable number of American Jews are having a serious case of buyer’s remorse when it comes to Barack Obama. Recent polls of the Jewish community reflect a significant decline in support from 2008, when 78 percent of Jewish voters pulled the lever for Obama. According to a recent McLaughlin & Associates poll, a plurality of Jewish voters would now consider voting for someone else for president.” Given the historic loyalty of Jews to the Democratic Party, this is no small thing.
And the writers add that these polls “do not begin to measure the depth of displeasure felt by many of Jews over President Obama’s performance.” The main objection is Obama’s inept handling of American-Israeli relations, particularly its institution of the concept of “linkage.” As the Anti-Defamation League’s chairman Abe Foxman explained, “I came away from the meeting convinced that Obama has introduced a new and dangerous strategy and that it’s revealing itself in steps. Unlike other administrations, this one is applying linkage in the Middle East. It’s saying that if you resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the messiah will come and the lions will lie down with the lambs. All the president’s advisers on the Middle East, starting with George Mitchell, believe in linkage, and they’re telling the president you have to prove to the Arab Muslim world that you are different than previous presidents and you can separate yourself from Israel, distance yourself from the settlements issue. After all, settlements are something that American Jews don’t like anyway, so it’s a win-win proposition.”
Klein and Chesnoff continue at length to point out in great detail the extent of the Jewish leaders’ disillusionment with Obama and his team, and they offer particularly tough quotes to substantiate their argument. One in particular struck me. They quote suspense novelist Jonathan Kellerman, who is also a professor of Psychology at the University of Southern California. Kellerman told them: “My personal opinion … is that the bifurcation of Israel and Judaism is structurally fallacious. The Land of Israel is an essential ingredient of Judaism practiced fully. Thus, it is impossible to be anti-Israel and not be anti-Jewish. And in fact, the war being waged against Israel by the Muslim world is, at the core, a religious dispute. Radical Islamists no longer talk about Zionists; they come right out and broadcast their goal of eradicating worldwide Jewry.”
Their new found disapproval of Obama goes beyond thinking that he is adopting a wrong policy. They also now believe that he holds both an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bias, something they think he may have picked up from the black population among which he lived in his years in Southside Chicago. Much of the black population there was pursuing an anti-Semitic black nationalism we are too familiar with from Obama’s former pastor, Reverend Wright. Thus Joseph Aaron, a liberal who edits Chicago’s Jewish weekly newspaper, told them “What you do come up with is someone who doesn’t really understand our attachment to Israel or Israel’s importance to Jews as a people, a president who doesn’t have a gut love for Israel like some of his predecessors, but someone who understands the Palestinian position better than any president we’ve had, someone with no natural affinity for Jews or Israel, and someone who approaches the Middle East, as he does most everything else, dispassionately and with a burning desire to fix the problem.” What else would you expect from a good friend of Rashid Khalidi?
The problem with Obama’s strategy was nailed by my friend Robert J. Lieber, an expert on the Middle East and a professor of government at Georgetown University. As Lieber said, “The problem is naïveté in the Obama administration. The president came into office with the assumption that the Israel-Palestinian conflict is by far the most central urgent problem in the region — which it is not — and that it is the key that unlocks everything else in the region. And they believe the [Israeli-Palestinian] situation was ripe for progress, which it absolutely isn’t.”
Klein and Chesnoff make another major point. Rather than follow the overwhelming pro-Israel sentiment held by the American public, Obama instead had allowed himself to be influenced by the growing volume of anti-Israel anger coming from the left wing of the Democratic Party, especially from radical students on campuses, where calls for the “delegitimization” of the Jewish state have become strictly kosher. In part, too, the president probably placed too much weight on recent sociological studies that indicate a shift in American Jewish attitudes on Israel.”
The president’s gut instincts, therefore, push him to the left rather than to the center, on almost every issue that comes by his desk. Ed Koch, New York’s former mayor who campaigned among Florida’s Jewish population for Obama, now regrets his so doing. He believes, as the authors conclude their article by quoting him, that the trust and ties between American Jews and the administration cannot be restored. As Koch put it, “Like Humpty Dumpty, once you break it, you can’t put it together again.”
It is too soon, of course, to think that many of these same Jewish voters will not return to Democratic ranks after Obama is gone, or if Hillary Clinton becomes the Vice-Presidential candidate in 2012, when they again might vote for a new Obama team, hoping that Hillary will produce a new policy. But for the present, many of these voters will be pulling the lever for a Republican the first times in their lives, even in Florida.






Jon Kellerman’s idea about Judaism necessitating Israel is foolish for modern people.
We can support Israel and think it is good for the Jews but that doesn’t mean that we have to believe what some guys thought a few thousand years ago.
If we operate on that principle then we might as well stop insisting that Muslims abandon the lifestyle of 7th century Arabians.
It’s also well-known that very religious Jews in the past did not demand that the Jewish people live in Israel until the messiah restored the ancient kingdom.
I did not notice that we “INSIST” on Muslims abandoning 7th century ….
Your diatribe is too long to type, so I hope you forgive me for not finishing it. But, dear GOD, you are arrogant AND ignorant.
Sorry, can not find any other excuse for you.
You’re a real clear thinker, Gibby. So let’s see. “We don’t have to believe what some guys thought a few thousand years ago.” Instead we are to to believe “very religious Jews in the past (who)did not demand that the Jewish people live in Israel until the messiah restored the ancient kingdom.”
Maybe Ron is rejecting your comments on the basis of intelligence, Gib. An IQ of 80 is, I believe, the minimum requirement at PJM.
I
With reference to Kellerman again, are you anti-Jewish if you don’t believe in the Jewish food laws?
Is it anti-semitic or anti-Israel if someone believes that Israel should not colonize the West Bank? I’m pretty sure that Alan Dershowitz is against that.
Alan Dershowitz is your authority Gib? Say it ain’t so. Dearthofwits is a uniquely untelegenic geek–a whiny, argumentative, screechy and snide Harvard shyster who embarrasses and humiliates the Jewish community by insisting on representing it.
As for colonization, Gib, there are some Native Americans who would very much like to see the back of you.
Help me out here. Hasn’t Israel said it would stop building and remove some of the smaller settlements if certain minor conditions were met, say, like recognition of its right to exist?
A Jew adds a bedroom to his house in Judea= COLONIZATION
An Arab adds a bedroom to his house in Tel Aviv= CONSTRUCTION
If you really want to play the “colonization” card, if you want the “imperialists” to go back to where they came from, as it were, then perhaps you should promote the evacuation of all Arabs to Arabia rather than hyperventilating about Jews living in Judea.
“Is it anti-semitic or anti-Israel if someone believes that Israel should not colonize the West Bank?”
Apologies for an oblique answer, but here goes:
It is un-Jewish to believe that Jews and their state could be colonizing any part of the Land of Israel.
To believe that the Jews are colonizers in their own land–indeed, to believe that the Land of Israel does not belong to the Jews–constitutes a brazen, barefaced treading on Judaism’s heritage, effectively the same as stomping on a Torah scroll and tearing it to shreds (perish the thoughts).
And yes, that’s anti-Jewish (=”anti-Semitic” so misnamed since the 19th century). Anti-Zionism, the denial of the Jews’ right to sovereignty on Palestine their homeland, is a form of Jew-hatred. Today’s most fashionable form, in fact.
If not now, when?
Ron, growing up in Brooklyn, it was almost Heresy to vote republican. The first republican I ever voted for was Ronald Reagan.
Haven’t voted for a donkey since.
If your Jewish and have more than 2 brain cells, how can you vote for jackasses?
There was Bilaam’s donkey who knew enough that to curse the Jews was not allowed.
http://www.torahuniversal.com/The%20Donkey%20of%20Bilaam.htm
Balaam’s ass? Hang on. Gibson Block, someone’s calling your name.
Oooh David, too delicious…
I WAS a life long Democrat, I heard Obama in DC at the AIPAC convention LIE about Jerusalem and it went down hill from there…
To all my Obama supporting fellow Jews?
I TOLD YOU SO,,,
You guys called me crazy, I pointed out FACTS, Wright, Nation of Islam, his relationship with the Palestinians, Bill Ayers and his wife (who led a Gaza trip)
Obama is horrible, he is horrible for America, he is horrible for Israel.
He was in talks with Hamas BEFORE HE WAS ELECTED
He advocates bringing Hezbollah and Hamas into the mainstream.
I am voting “anyone” but a democrat this election…
They have lost any morality they once had…
disgusting….
You left out the helping his cousing odinga bring sharia law to a 70% *christian* country.
“…or if Hillary Clinton becomes the Vice-Presidential candidate in 2012, when they again might vote for a new Obama team, hoping that Hillary will produce a new policy.”
I have some doubts that Hillary Clinton is really all that good on these issues. But let’s put that to the side for the time being. The vice president’s role is to be usually the flunky of the top elected leader of the country. It has been compared to a bucket of spit. President Obama will set the policies of his administration. Clinton will have to essentially keep her mouth shut and go along. Also, Obama has a well deserved reputation of ignoring good advice. Rahm Emanuel and others tried to warn him that the health care bill could be very politically costly. Did Obama listen? Nope, he sure didn’t.
Ron, why weren’t my comments approved? I’m a regular reader. I said nothing offensive.
I don’t know why. COuld you send it again? We’ve been having internet problems getting to the site.
They’ve appeared now. Thanks. I don’t always agree with you but it’s a treat to be able to read you on a regular basis and comment.
You’re developing a bit of a gut there, Gibby. Maybe you ought to limit the treats to reading and skip the comment.
Who is Robert Malley and what is he doing these days? Dig deeply and answer that question and you know all you need to know about what this administration thinks of Israel.
Hillary was an enormous disappointment during that dustup over the LEGAL construction in East Jerusalem. Enormous disappointment.
Look, there are 12=14 million Jews in the world…take away the Goldstone, Soros, and all the kapos on the left who are actively seeking to destroy the race entirely, and it would make a nice State of Illinois….or just to piss off the anti-Semitic, Jimmy Carter…Georgia.
The hard left hates Israel and you can’t hate Israel with that frothing, seething, rabid, energy…without hating Jews.
When the time comes that left of center Jews stop looking to their right and worrying that danger lurks there, they might just…maybe, …finally, wake up and realize that ALL the danger, 97% of the hatred, and all of the lies about them as a people…is to their left.
Then and only then, will they vote protecting their self-interest rather than protecting their self-image as their guiding light.
This tendency was aided and abetted by the enormously successful branding by Stalin and his water carriers in the educated classes that Naziism was an extreme right wing ideology. This could not have been further from the truth yet the lie lives on to this day. It was not called National SOCIALISM for nothing.
The question is why anyone is surprised by this. Anyone looking at Obama’s political history, his associations, his rhetoric, and those he selected as his advisers knew this was going to happen–and of course, twenty years as a congregant of a blatantly anti-Semitic clergyman might have had something to do with it.
If these Jewish leaders didn’t at least have serious qualms it was because they badly wanted not to have them.
I saw Sarah Palin on CPSAN not long ago speak to some conservative conference. She lauded Israel as a friend and ally of the United States that deserved our full support and the crowd rose to its feet, cheering. Can anyone imagine a liberal crowd that would do the same?
By the way, I am Jewish and an active Zionist, but I’d support Israel even if the Israelis were Vietnamese.
How about this? I am an experienced cross-examiner, so perhaps I have a different reaction than other folks when someone is asked a direct question…I see things in the answer that give my honed instincts a burst of energy.
Please read the exchange, printed at Powerline, with P.J. Crowley…being asked the very simple and direct question.
Does this administration recognize Israel as a Jewish state?
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/10/027458.php
Now, again…I perhaps have substantially different instincts, having spent 30 years listening to plaintiff’s trial lawyers and their witnesses respond to simple and direct questions. In defending the unpopular (policemen, firemen, corporations, businessmen) from the plaintiff’s trial bar and their witnesses, my antennae go up when I get a certain type of response.
QUESTION: P.J., do you recognize Israel as a Jewish state and will you try to convince the Palestinians to recognize it?
MR. CROWLEY: We will continue our discussions with the parties. I would expect, following up on the Arab League meetings of late last week that George Mitchell will go to the region at some point. I’m not announcing anything, but I — it would be logical for us to follow up directly with the parties, see where they are. . . .
QUESTION: And do you recognize Israel as a Jewish state?
MR. CROWLEY: We recognize the aspiration of the people of Israel. It has — it’s a democracy. In that democracy, there’s a guarantee of freedom and liberties to all of its citizens. But as the Secretary has said, we understand that — the special character of the state of Israel.
QUESTION: Is that a yes or no?
QUESTION: P.J., it’s — do you want to answer his question or -
QUESTION: Did you say yes or no to that question from Michel?
Again…maybe it’s just me.
Right on Cfbleachers! Reference to “some guy named Crowley” is the smartest thing that ever came out of Sen. Schumer’s mouth. Every individual associated with this administration is third rate. Crowley is typically anti-Semitic State Department turd.
not very good at evasion is he? Disembling little prick.
with all respect to my american jewish countrymen … it is hard to get excited about jewish politics…they are thier own worst enemies
Obama will lose 15, 20 Jewish votes maximum. If Joe Lieberman were the republican candidate and Pat Buchanan was the democrat candidate, Buchanan would get 70% of the Jewish vote
Well Numrod,
The projection is that a plurality of 49% is still with Obama. I predicted this about a year ago. By election time it should be an even push. This time the Jews won’t be there for him. That’s not all, it ain’t just the Jews buddy. Ask the tea party!
Gibson Block writes, “Is it anti-semitic or anti-Israel if someone believes that Israel should not colonize the West Bank? I’m pretty sure that Alan Dershowitz is against that.”
The West Bank was so named by Transjordan only after they illegally occupied it. And Israel has as much *legal* claim to it as any other party. So let’s first ask whether this place – of all places – should be one where Jews should be legally prohibited. Or, to paraphrase Obama when he discusses the Ground Zero Mosque, to separate the *right* to legally procure land and build there from the question of whether they should.
Yes, Dershowitz is against it, as he has been against anything beyond the old armistice lines of 1949. But whatever his critiques of Obama, he remains a liberal Democrat. Only last week he insisted that Obama is getting a “bad rap” from the Jews, that he really is a friend to Israel. (Could have fooled me.)
But to answer your question, it depends on how one rationalizes opposition to “colonization” – itself a loaded word. If it is by applying standards and principles on Israel or the Jews that are not applied to any other country or people, then yes it can be deemed anti-Semitic or anti-Israel.
It’s pointless to engage him. He has already pretty much expressed a theological view that suggests ‘abrogation’ of Israel’s right to exist itself. Or: ‘only if Israel is thoroughly secular and humanist will I support it.’ Sadly, quite a lot if leftie Israelis agree with Mr. Block.
Ronnie: Sometimes you can’t win. I guess having the first seder in the
quite house is trivial or besides the point. Rahm and Ax are hardly
self hating Jews. Just because you cite someone who disagrees with the
premise the the Arab Israili conflict isn’t central, doesn’t make the
disagreement true. One hear’s of many sentiments by the Arab
narad-naroy talking about linkage. Why should that narrative
necessarily be trumped?
Because those who don’t know the history lend support to the Arab League which has made the centralization its main weapon in getting the Jews out of the region as it helps get Western support on board and blinds them to the even bigger issues in the region.
By the way research into a British General brought the following to light and highlights the start of the “narrative’s” points
A Tale of Two Galloways
Neither Rahm or Axelrod or any of those looking for a simplistic out know anything about the context which means researching back to the post WW1 period.
I don’t understand the Jewish fascination with the Clintons, and why a vice-pres run with Obozo would be a game changer for Jews upset with Obozo. When carpetbagger Clinton came to NY to run for senate, she attended a speech in which Sewer Arafat (that’s Yasser’s wife) claimed that Jews poison palestinian wells, after which Hillary planted a big smooch onto Sewer’s cheek. The fact that so many Jews voted for Clinton for NY Senator makes me think that Jews have the survival instinct of lemmings and leadership no better than the Kapos of olde. BUT, I believe even if Goebbels ran for POTUS with a D after his name, he would get 70% of the Jewish vote.
The only good thing about Obama becoming POTUS is that it got Clinton out of the NY senate.
The correct term for Obama’s handling of Israel is not “inept” but “hostile”. He and his associates, including some nominally Jewish ones, want to reverse Truman’s decision of 1948.
I hope the 49% still in the dark will rethink their cosmic error.
Putting the Zionist genie back in the bottle is the only policy the State Department has pursued as doggedly and consistently as containing the Soviet Union.
State grew out of the American missionary movement. Its hostility toward Israel like its hostility toward the Chinese who quite properly gave the missionaries the heave-ho is rooted in religious prejudice.
Actually David — and please, disagree with me if you think I’m wrong — but I’ve always thought of our State Department as essentially having fashioned themselves after Great Britain’s “Foreign Office” — which, as we all know, has been decidedly Arabist since… well at least “Lawrence of Arabia” (which some astute author here at PJ Media wrote was fairly Philo-Semitic, if you can believe that!)
But really, I’ve always seen State as being, in their early days, an “outcropping” of the Foreign Office. I think *they* saw themselves that way as did the Brits. Then of course post WWII when the tables were turned, well that just changed the number of employees each could hire, but not the fundamental prejudice each had to being with, you know?
Both are true, Frumious Falafel. (What happened to bandersnatch?) The main difference is that the BFO were somewhat competent. Snicker snack with the vorpal sword and off with all their heads.
The State Department is a shill for the Bible-thumpers! Wow! Who knew???!!!
49% is still too much !
“The hard left hates Israel and you can’t hate Israel with that frothing, seething, rabid, energy…without hating Jews.
“When the time comes that left of center Jews stop looking to their right and worrying that danger lurks there, they might just…maybe, …finally, wake up and realize that ALL the danger, 97% of the hatred, and all of the lies about them as a people…is to their left.”
Amen to that!
As a gentile who tries to be righteous regarding Israel, all I do is alienate my lefty Jewish friends. I’ve come to the conclusion that Jews will never abandon lockstep leftyism UNTIL THE MOMENT ISRAEL IS DOOMED. At that point, too late, they’ll realize what a horrendous mistake the whole leftist obsession has been. But for now, fear of the right (and love of “progressivism,” which they think is about “social justice” but is really about control) is their guiding light. I’m losing Jewish friends by trying to do something they seem to find unforgivable: telling them the truth. For that, they call me an “extreme right-winger.”
It’s about time the Jews started waking up.
Why are you singling out Jewish-Americans for criticisms of their voting preferences, which are, after all, their own business, aren’t they?
It’s weird:
In the community where I grew up, there wasn’t any difference between Bapists, Presbyterians, Jews, Lutherans, Methodists, Catholics and Episcopalians.
It wasn’t until I went off to college, that glorious institution of higher learning and enlightenment, that I first witnessed the peculiar behavior of making a distinction between Jews and gentiles …, and between blacks and whites, also, for that matter. Distinctions which seemed to arise out of nowhere, and for reasons which bewildered me. I don’t understand some of you people, and I especially don’t understand why ANYONE was goofy enough to vote for that empty suit, Obama, for WHATEVER the reason. Religion shouldn’t have had anything to do with such a ditzy decision.
I was going to reply to your comment, but since it betrays a large degree of ignorance about Jewish history, identity and experience, I’ll just leave it at this. I think you should read some books, at least.
Oh bullshit, Larry. Does it make you feel better about yourself to make such an assinine statement?
Don’t be so damned offended. Larry is making a real point. You haven’t walked in my shoes so you don’t know what it feels like.
What a cop-out. Life is a bitch for all of us. Grow up.
What happened? Where did everybody go? Was it something I said?
Nothing you said Dianne. Just bad breath.
Liberal Jews are slow learners. How else can you explain the Holocaust? Sorry. Perhaps Darwin was right. It is indeed interesting, that the least sentient, thinking, contemplating organisms, the most primitive organisms, are the most successful survivors. Remember Hamlet? Well, maybe Liberal Jews are waking up. But I remain skeptical.
“Liberal Jews are slow learners. How else can you explain the Holocaust?”
Carla’s may not be the silliest remark ever posted on PJM, but it will do.
Joseph:
May the last liberal into the gas chamber please turn off the lights.
Sorry.
Saying that that remark is in poor taste would be like saying “women named carla” were Cookie Runts”…. wait, I made a mistake… gosh darn it all… what I meant was for the ‘C’ and the ‘R’ to be swapped in that last sentence. Oh well, can’t fix it now
Guess I got to just live with it.
Say Rookie, could get the lights for me, thanks Sweetie. What? Can’t reach it? Oh yeah, you are not very tall I forgot. Sorry, my mistake, I’ll get it.
Falafel:
Bad taste is oned thing. Blind stupidity is something else again.
Some people jsut never learn from their mistakes. Thanks, honeybuns.
An opinionated woman? And one who has to have the last word, too?
Maybe Obama Really Isn’t Black Enough?
Time Magazine and the LA Times, among others, posed the daunting question in February 2007, long before the junior senator from Illinois tossed his hat into the presidential ring, “Is Obama Black Enough?” The Time article concluded with the puzzling observation that “Barack Obama’s real problem isn’t that he’s too white–it’s that he’s too black.”
Granted, the biracial Obama wasn’t as black as 50 Cent or Chris Rock but so what? Too black, too white, whatever.
The questions Time and others should have been asking were, Why in God’s holy name was this guy, Barack Hussein Obama, even being considered as “presidential material” after barely a year on the national stage? Why was a woefully inexperienced and untested individual being lionized by the MSM and touted as a possible nominee for the Democrat Party’s next entry into the presidential sweepstakes?
And, the most obvious unasked question of all, Was Obama in fact being considered precisely because he was (partially) black and because he represented the best shot people of color had to win the presidency? Did his fans view his election as a way to finally and definitively expiate their nagging white guilt?
If Obama were to be nominated simply because of the color of his skin and not the content of his character, his qualifications and suitability for the presidency of the United States, wouldn’t that be racist in Martin Luther King Jr.’s lexicon?
The very reverend Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would later question Obama’s black identity and credentials but at least Joe Biden accepted him for what he was, even if he was the “first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”
Wouldn’t it also be racist and blatantly discriminatory to favor any particular group or groups for special treatment because of their color? . . .
(read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=2214)
Good posting Ron. I think ending it with former NYC mayor Koch acknowledging his mistake is particularly important. It dovetails nicely with Bob Woodwards recent speculation that Hillary may join the ticket should Obama stumble as badly after loosing the House (& Senate too, hopefully) as he has this past year in virtually handing it back to Republicans.
Obama’s utter cluelessness in foreign policy is beginning to dawn on the majority of Americans. Watching the ever infuriating Jimmy Carter (shilling yet another book) extolling himself as some kind of American Disraeli on Larry King Live a few weeks back must have been particularly painful for the White House crew. It helped confirm a narrative building since the BP oil fiasco.
Namely that we are living through Jimmy Carters second term.
All of Obama and his cronies moves in the middle east – excepting his military decisions in Iraq & Afganistan (where he wisely demured to the Pentagon)- are poor imitations of Carter and Zibiggi back in the day.
If Obama is really earnest about his so-called ‘Cairo initiative’ then why hasn’t he taken the issue directly to the Monarchies in the region and demanded they invest some of their enormous wealth towards the creation of a Palestinian state?
The Wests fundemental failure in the middle east is not the failure to broker peace between Israel & the Palestinians (the Carter & Obama view) – it has been accepting the responsiblity for doing so at such a late date. Why – approaching 40 years into OPEC and the largest transfer of wealth from the West to the Middle East in the last 50 years of the 20th Century & and successive Arab initiated wars to try and destroy Israel – are the Arab nations so off the hook when it comes to producing lasting peace in their own region?
The only answer is antisemitism. What is most disheartening about Obama is that such a pervasive antisemitism has become almost as common here as it has been for decades in Europe and Asia.
Other than Radash few journalists of note call Obama on his abuses regularly, or with any force of conviction or judicious use of the facts.
No constituency invested more in Obama than American Jews, and no group has been more competely and obviously abandoned and abused. Politically speaking this White House makes Bernnie Madoff look like a bingo parlor heist.
Liberals get it wrong every time. It’s not naivete, it’s LEFTISM.
Obama is saying what the Left taught him; poor Palestinians good, strong Israel bad.
Ken Livingstone in London did the same thing. So does Jimmy Carter.
It’s the ideology of the Left. Liberals run on fear and when the going gets rough they shout, “Anti-Semite, ” rather than analyze their stupid anti-American, anti-western, anti-capitalist policies.
Of course Obama, who turns out to be bad for America is bad for Israel and the Jews.
Liberals will not see it that way and, as with Carter, will see it as a character flaw.
Stupid wankers.
“The majority still stays loyal to the Democratic Party”
And will continue to be so. Differences over certain policies may tempt some to the right, but a few minutes of Limbaugh’s rants, Beck’s Birch-like conspiracy theories, the mindless comments of Tea Party candidates like Paladino and O’Donnell, and a look at hate-sites like PJM (even if most of the hatred is aimed at Moslems), and the overwhelming Jewish response is … Feh! … Treif!
Since when do the jackasses keep kosher or cholev yisroel?
Joseph:
The genius of primitive organisms is that they have, obeying Darwins precepts, developed mechanisms and defenses to assure the continuation of their species. Not so liberal Jews. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Time is running out, Joseph. Your sense of intellectual and moral superiority only goes so far. I suggest you do a bit historical research. No? Well, I will not mourn you.
“The genius of primitive organisms….” Hmmm, well that explains the responses I’ve gotten.
Joseph:
Keep up the good fight. Keep your head up high, chest out, chin forward. And after you are stoned to death, be assured that your demise was ecologicaly friendly. If you are too dumb to recognize your enemies, (i.e. Germany, 1933, that great religion of peace, Islam circa 2010), well adios. I think that you are absolutely clueless, but, of course, we’ve never met.
Where can be foward your benefit checks??
It’s interesting how some people who claim to be able to detect hate at 30 paces in microscopic concentrations are totally oblivious to the murderous hate of Arafat & co. to Israel’s existence, call them “peace partners”, and those who point out what they are “Islamophobes”.
“The overwhelming Jewish response is … Feh! … Treif!” to the Right because of the persons you mention. That explains NOTHING.
For every “mindless” person or “hate-site” on the Right, there are more than an equivalent number on the Left. If “ranting” and “hate” in and of themselves were the problem, liberal Jewish Americans would be equally turned off by Keith Olberman, Jeremiah Wright, and the Daily Kos.
‘The Aim Is to Make Israel a Pariah’
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/-the-aim-is-to-make-israel-a-pariah–15550
vote donkey – end Judaism
To further my point, Michael Oren eloquently details why it is imperative that Israel be recognized as a Jewish state.
But there is NO chance that the Palestinians…or their puppet masters in Iran…will ever concede the point if America won’t insist upon it. In fact, if this administration openly derides the point, what hope is there that those who hate Israel would accept it? But, I repeat myself.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/opinion/14oren.html?_r=2&ref=opinion
Absolute and utter crap. Obama is most certainly not being tripped up by his naïveté. He’s falling flat on his face because his allegiance is, in fact, entirely to the Palestinians, in particular, and the Arab world, in general. And we American Jews are (thankfully!) finally awakening to his willful disregard and distain for Israel.
I am absolutely not above saying “I told you so!” And I will say so repeatedly. You idiots who voted for this jackass should be ashamed for your ideological blindness. His spots were never hidden, to those who would only open their eyes. And he is an absolute natural result of the Far Left’s insanity. Don’t ever fool yourself again into thinking the Democratic Party represents Jewish values. Far from it.
Time to wake up.
I grew up in a working class Jewish household in NY where Republican was a dirty word. When I got interested in GOP politics at age 15 my family all thought I was crazy and that I was embarrassing them, but time has proven me right. Since then I served as county chairman and delegate/alternate to three GOP national conventions. I had Obama’s number right from the start, and voted (reluctantly, for other reasons) for McCain (and enthusiastically for Palin). Despite the polls cited here, most Jews will come back in 2012 because they are congenitally unable to pull the GOP lever, despite the decay of their beloved Democratic party. See Norman Podhoretz’ book Why Are Jews Liberals? for the explanation.
This thread is a bit disturbing to me in many ways. Speaking as that fairly rare entity – a conservative Jew who came by his conservatism in the late 1970′s, watching the last serious demolition of America by a liberal Democrat administation – I do not find Jewish support for Obama a mystery, but I do find the lowering of his favorables among Jews to be heartening. First of all, it is obvious that Jews have a stubborn habit of support for Democrat/Socialist politicians, even as it might mitigate against their own interests. Whether that type of political choice is firmly grounded in some type of quirk of Jewish American culture, or not, is an interesting, but now almost irrelevant question. If it takes the fact that Obama is not interested in the welfare of Israel to move Jews into a more rational understanding of political reality, well, whatever works is fine with me.
Jews had long appealed to the sometimes sympathetic autocratic, sometimes dictatorial, gentile rulers of 18th and 19th century in Europe to protect them from the cyclical pograms and never-diminshed anti-semitism of a wide swath of the putatively Christian population. They came to view the central governments of the new more secular and “progressive” regimes as a relief from the more overtly theocratic regimes who had been antagonistic to Jews whenever it suited their needs. Although these new regimes did not necessarily treat them any differently all the time, they did seem to offer “hope and change” for the Jews of Europe. When dreams that the “otherness” of Jews could be finally subsumed into the ideology of formal Socialism, Marxism, even Anarchism, then these ideologies became an avenue of a great proportion of a type Jewish idealism that had lost much of its theological underpinnings by the the time of the Bolshevik revolution. However, a real problem lay in a great contradiction in Jewish life: that these dangerous, secular and anti-human utopian visions required the destruction of the bedrock principles of all that had made the Jewish community succeed and survive through the centuries of the diaspora. Those principles were, first, their faith in their Covenant that let the Jews survive with the only riches they could always be sure to keep, the currency of hope for themselves and their childrens’ children in their ultimate deliverance by an almighty and just God. Second, fate had, by the effort of others to restrict Jews from more traditional forms of livelyhood and to intermittantly seize what ever real property they might at any time have secured, led Jews to seek ways of working which could not be so easily restricted or taken away – they became a great part of the burgeoning mercantile and then captitalist economy that grew up through the Enlightenment and would come to eventually dominate the world. And all that they required to do that could not very easily be taken away from them – knowledge and a willingness to invest and work at jobs that many in the larger society felt was “below’ them. They became shopkeepers, bankers, traders, and later, doctors, lawyers and academics. By the early twentieth century, two great forces in the jewish community had been set against each other – the old idea of being protected by the higher authority of the state, added to the search by many younger Jews for a secular deliverance by a political and economic utopianism to replace their old Covenant and to finally rid themselves of their dangerous otherness ran up against the reality of the real successes of the Jewish community as it had always been. These new Jews had found the enemy – and it was themselves. Thus set up the seemingly never-ending dialectic of the Jewish community in America, one that was imported here from Europe as it was when the greatest waves of Jewish immigration came through Ellis Island. And so it still is today. The majority of American Jews have views which, while leavened by many many decades of acceptance and success in America, still harken back to the tensions in Minsk and Munich in 1908. That strain of messianic socialism and appeal to the authority of the state has been replaced by a much more restrained penchant for always voting for the most liberal of any available mainstream political party, the Democrats in particular. But, against this, our success in a generous America in every walk of life has left so many of us, time and time again, habitually voting aginst our own self interest.
Mr. Obama’s popularity among Jewish voters, despite all the glaringly obvious clues that he would be perhaps the least sympathetic President ever to the real economic interests of the vast majority of American Jews and, of course, the rest of the country as well, is really fairly predictable. He appealed to that strain of Jewish messianic utopianism that finds its modern diluted form in the habitual unthinking liberalism of so many secular and near-secular American Jews. The more Obama sounded his campaign mantra as if he were a secular profit, promising to lower the seas like Moses parted them, promising to bring a great social and economic leveling that would rid us of our guilt and envy, rid us of our racial tensions, that promised that Democrat would lie down with Republican in peace and harmony – in fact, the more that his campaign became a total unbelievable farce – the more it appealed to that secular Jewish utopian strain.
This is not to say that Obama’s clear lack of sympathy for Israel and his clear identification with the Muslim world is not important to Israel’s safety and security, even her survival. And, it is equally important to all of us Americans and our own national security as well. Although I fully expected him to act in precisely the way he has, I am still appalled and disgusted with his behavior and the jeopardy in which he has placed us all, as well as Israel and its Jews, especially his hardened indifference to the nuclear aspirations of Iran. But, even if Obama had been a true American and Israeli hawk, his other behavior, his every statist dream for America, would still be antithetical to that second and opposing reality of American Jewish life – the real and historic strengths of the American Jewish community, the goose that lays its golden eggs, its bedrock beliefs in God’s covenant among those who remain religious, the sanctity and importance of family and local community, and the economic principles of a free market, under which countless generations of Jews had, against all odds, found a way to better themselves and contribute to both their own welfare and those of the greater communites in which they have lived. Let us hope that the pendulum is swinging back to restore some much needed balance to the political choices made by the greater American Jewish community. It’s just too bad that it may be the weakening of the state of Israel that finally leads them to a greater appreciation of their own real interests, as well as those of their fellow countrymen.
.
Wow.
.
Very dense and impenetrable prose to make some rather simplistic points. The conclusion is generally correct, however.
It’s just too bad that it may be the weakening of the state of Israel that finally leads them to a greater appreciation of their own real interests, as well as those of their fellow countrymen.
Does this mean that Israel is expendable?
David L – while I appreciate your conclusory agreement with me, I have to reply that, whereas the writing in my above post may be dense, as it is meant to be, it is certainly not impenetrable, nor are it’s conclusions simplistic. Yes, all things can be reduced to a minimum, without context or history, without details, for those who prefer slogans and incomplete ideas. However, if one wants to truly understand a paradox, along with an explanation for the reason it exists, then a short facile statement, without any context, is inadequate. Hence, my post. I’m sorry that my language offends you. Try reading “the Old man and the Sea” instead of this forum, and get over it.
Cynic – if you are implying that I think that Israel is expendable, you are wrong. I am only saying that the current reality of Obama’s non-support for Israel is a fact on the ground, not my preferred solution to the strange and seemingly unbreakable attachment of Jews to the Democrat-Left. It is what it is, but if it can yield a silver lining in the midst of this cloud of Mr. Obama’s making, then at least we may salvage something from the 2008 electoral fiasco, and change the facts on the ground in time to matter to both America and Israel.
Double WOW.
The more committed, religiously, a Jew is, the more likely to vote republican.
The liberal Jews are not having kids – they are not reproducing. It will take a while, but the trend is definitely in favor of sanity.
Low fertility and high intermarriage are pushing American Jewry toward extinction.
http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48899452.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/11/the_exit_polls_and_the_jewish.html
” …
The Finkelstein survey of 1,000 Jewish voters interviewed both older and younger voters, and members of the different Jewish branches in America — reform, conservative and orthodox. Age and the branch of Judaism, both seemed to matter a lot in the 2004 survey results, and they did again this year: the more often a Jew attended synagogue, the more likely he or she was to vote Republican. Similarly, younger Jews, and in particular younger Jewish males, were much more likely to vote Republican. Orthodox Jews were more than twice as likely to vote Republican as Reform Jews.
Lots of complex reasons put forth here. I think it is far simpler.
Jews are generally highly-educated. The Leftists control academia. They are brainwashed.
However, the raw ugliness of Democratic malice towards Jews is getting past the indoctrination. Their basic survival instincts are kicking in. They know their history, these Jews, but each time they think, “This time it will be different!” Into the oven, Jueden! Idjits.
Ah, to be Irish and simple. At least the Jews never allowed themselves to be sold by their own nobles for cannon fodder to every gangster in Europe in a crown or miter for a uniform and a musket and two squares a day.
I have some Irish in me, but the name comes from my having taken my wife’s last name. I am a real mix of lots of ethnic types, including Jewish. It was truly, deeply stupid of you to make an ad hominem, scurrilous, racist attack, based on my name. Idjit.
FWIW, I support Israel. I also think Jews are their own worst enemies. They have an average IQ about 15 points higher than caucasians, 30 points higher than arabs, are often highly-educated… and are dumb as stumps. Idjits.
Israel has every legal right under international law to build everywhere it wants in the Disputed Territories. These Territories were acquired as the result of a defensive war and thus are legally Israeli, period.
Most Jews and a lot of fair thinking non Jews now realize, unlike the Obama White House, that the Palestinians are not now and nor have they ever negotiated in good faith with Israel, that generous if unwise Israel unilateral Israeli withdrawals from the Territories have been counterproductive leading the Palestinians to see Israel as weak, and that the Palestinians have only one goal in mind, the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish People.
If anyone doubts this, just take a look at the Palestinian non negotiable demand for the “right of return of Palestinian refugees” to Israel. This Palestinian demand is intended to flood Israel with a hostile foreign population intent on expelling or killing all the Jewish Israelis and stealing our property.
That is the peace that the Palestinians seek, most Jews now realize this, and most Jews now see that Barack Obama, while not directly supporting the Palestinian “right of return” isn’t opposing it very much either.
Liberal Jews are a disgrace! I am ashamed of each and everyone of them and it is as if they personally dirtied the family tree…
Here is a partial list of American Jewish Congressmen…. Let’s get real … does anyone of them make you feel proud that they are Jews…thankfully some of their days are numbered in the Big House.
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
Al Franken (D-MN)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Joseph Lieberman (I-CT)
Charles Schumer (D-NY)
Arlen Spector (D-PA)
If one adds the Jewish people on Obama’s staff and Cabinet & the Hollywood sycophants, then is it any wonder that the Jewish Community engenders no respect?
The Jewish community should not support any candidate just because they are Democrats.
The Jewish community should not support any candidate just because they are Jewish.
The Jewish community should not support any candidate just because of their policy towards Israel.
Look at the FULL PACKAGE — is this candidate good for America?
Is this candidate supportive of the Constitution?
Is this candidate supportive of capitalism and its handmaidens, a free press and a free market?
If they automatically pull the Democrat lever, then they are no better than Pavlov’s dogs.
Strangely, Lieberman is a devout Jew. The others are not. Lieberman is a Liberal in domestic affairs, but a bit hawkish in foreign affairs. Perhaps that is why the Dems tried to get him out. Too Conservative for them.
Substitute “David Dinkins” for “Obama” and “Crown Heights” for “Israel”, and this plays out simply as a rehashed story line for New York City Jews. They saw it play out to decades ago, which is why it was so disappointing to see Ed Koch — who basically played the Hillary Clinton role in 1989 to Dinkins’ Barack Obama — fall for Hope and Change, given how many advisers Team Obama was recruiting to their foreign policy staff who had shown past hostility to Israel.
Despite the dust-up over the Jerusalem settlement issue and the other differences so far between Obama and the Israeli government, we really haven’t had the big, defining, if-you-can’t-figure-out-the-score-you’re-blind Crown Heights moment yet in this administration like Dinkins did in Brooklyn. But as long as Iran maintains its threat to go nuclear and Hamas and Hezbollah are still around, there’s a good chance it’s coming in the next two years, at which point the remaining Jews who support Obama are going to have to come face to face with their denial and decide (as some secular Jews have) that in the Middle East, they’d rather see the Palestinians get their way if to not do so would mean a policy setback for the current administration.
Substitute “Junior Gilliam” for “David Dinkins” and the “’55 Dodgers” for “Crown Heights,” and … ah, never mind.
Hey, Junior Gilliam didn’t beat Sandy Koufax to death after the Dodgers won the ’55 Series…
Quote from the Radosh’s column:
“Recent polls of the Jewish community reflect a significant decline in support from 2008, when 78 percent of Jewish voters pulled the lever for Obama. According to a recent McLaughlin & Associates poll, a plurality of Jewish voters would now consider voting for someone else for president.” Given the historic loyalty of Jews to the Democratic Party, this is no small thing.”
Doesn’t it mean that the mentioned percentage of Jews are voting as if they are living and voting in Israel, not in the USA?
Why on Earth American citizens of certain descent vote for what they think is good for Israel and not for America, for the American Constitution, for the American free-market Capitalist system?
If to follow their logic, American Japanese should vote for what is good for Japan; American Chinese should vote for what is good for China; American Kenyans should vote for what is good for Kenya (oh, sorry, it seems they already do); American Russians should vote for what is good for Russia, and so on, and so forth…
Oh, I see, Jewish logic is different…
So, which logic do I prefer: the logic of “78 percent of Jewish voters who pulled the lever for Obama” or the logic of 32% of Jews who have disapproved “the Obama Administration’s handling of U.S.-Israel relations” and will now vote for those candidates who promise to pursue interests of Israel more closely, emphatically, and consistently?
Forget about the USA…
Loretta from Indiana,
I am wondering why you’ve stared your list from the second row.
In the very first row of that circus you’ll find such clowns as Rahm Emanuel, Iezekiel Emanuel, David Axelrod, Cass Sunstein, Peter Orszag, Penny Pritzker, Lawrence Summers, Ben Bernanke, and many other Commies who you might want to thank for our today’s “endless unemployment strategy” and total Socialization of the country.
Constantine-
Thought experiment for you.
Most Russians are expelled from Russia and only a small percentage of them live on in Russia, but as an extrtemely oppressed minority, constantly exposed to random murder, removal of almost all civil rights and forced to pay extra special taxes so as not to be jailed or executed in their own country. The Russians who leave settle in the rest of Europe. There they are exposed to regularly occurring pogroms, not allowed to own real property, have fewer legal rights than other inhabitants of their adopted countries and sometimes are forced to live in only a single designated ready-made ghetto with access to no natural resources of their own. Some lucky ones manage to emigrate to the United States where despite some comparatively minor discrimination and some prejudice, they are allowed freedom equal to all other citizens and allowed for the first time since they had a state of their own to be truly free men and women. Then anti-Russian discrimination becomes so bad in Europe that, during a major world war, almost all the European states on the continent willingly conspire to round up all ethnic Russians and expell them to to camps where Germans forces and their collaborators execute over 6,000,000 non-combatant civilians in the most grisly and inhumane manner imaginable. After the war is over, a contrite Europe decides to allow the few remaining ethnic Russians in their former executioners’ territories to emigrate back to Russia to join the few remaining survivors there and form a new Russian state on a small portion of what used to be Russia before they were expelled from it. Within months, however, the nations surrounding Russia send their armies over to attack and annialate it, rallying around the idea tyo finish off the job not completed during the world war to fully and finally exterminate the Russians. But, with almost no other nation on earth giving it aid and assistance, miraculously, this new Russia survives and thrives, defeating not only these attacking armies this time, but twice more when the surrounding Europeans try again and again to exterminate them. They even manage to hang on to some of the territory that their enemies vacated, surrounding their originally mandated borders and creating a ridiculously small, but now adequate buffer to make the new Russia barely defendable.
The surrounding Europeans now decide on a different tack, using virulently racist and blatantly distorted anti-Russian propaganda to tell the story of the pitiful refugees that were once non-ethnic-Russian residents of Russia – most of them having emigrated there from surrounding European countries to Russia in the 1920′s, 30′s and 40′s – after the ethnic Russians had long been expelled, who were ordered to leave the country by the leaders of the attacking armies of the Europeans in their first attempted war of extermination against the new Russia, and regaled with stories of Russian hatred and promises to return later and be able to seize the property of their former ethnic-Russian neighbors. In reality, these regugees were held as hostages in glorified detention camps, unable by law to emigrate to any of the surrounding European countries, and fed a constant diet of hatred for and lust for revenge against the new Russia and its people in their schools, radio, television and internet sites. They even developed new religious based political movements, the stated creed of which was to eliminate, for the glory of their God, the new Russia and its people, the Russians.
Amidst all this racist hatred and exterminationist fever, only one powerful nation was now allied with the new Russia, one of the few states in the world which shared much the same political and economic sytems with it, one of the few that helped it with military aid and trade ties. This country was the United States of America. The ethnic Russians in the United States were proud of their own country for sticking up for their oppressed fellow Russians when, because of anti-Russian racial hatred, ignorant fashionable left wing posturing, or pure economic self interest, most of the rest of the world’s nations were either too afraid or too racist to do anytthing more than “pile-on” against the Russians.
Now, given all that, do you honestly think, that, as an ethnic Russian in America, you would not include in your political calculus for supporting a particular U.S. candidate for President, his or her support for Russia and/or rejection of Russia and support of her enemies? If you say no, then you are most likely deluded, or have absolutely no imagination or ability to employ empathy, or are just plain not telling the truth.
To dafrank:
1. Your use of terms “Russian” and “ethnic Russian” is very much confusing.
When you say “Most Russians are expelled from Russia and only a small percentage of them live on in Russia,” I smile and think: this is a typical American.
Why?
Firstly, those who you’re talking about are Jews, not Russians.
Secondly, the word “expel” doesn’t match the real situation: the overwhelming majority of Jews have left the country (first Russia, then the USSR, then again Russia) by themselves, simply emigrated.
The first wave of Jewish emigration (1890s – 1913) consisted mostly of Marxist revolutionaries. It’s exactly the wave that poisoned the USA, by the way.
Then there was the second wave, so-called “White emigres” wave (1918-1922), when the most part of the “Flower of the Nation” left the Bolsheviks Russia. I don’t touch those emigrants here: it’s a separate issue.
The second Jewish wave (late 1960s – 1970s)consisted mostly of dissidents, so-called “otkazniks,” predominantly anti-Communists, anti-Soviets. Mostly, the best people of the former USSR.
The third wave of Jewish emigration started under Gorbachev in late 1980s and continues, diminishing, until now. It’s so-called economic emigration, or as Russian-speaking people say, “sausage emigration.” This wave brought to the USA the infamous oil fraud, no-fault fraud, Medicare fraud, bribery in housing, superintendents of co-op and stable maintenance buildings, real estate, and many other “nice” things. (those who really know the life in the former USSR, like myself, can pretty easy explain the actual roots of such an “amazing” phenomenon.)
Of course, between those waves, there always were individuals who left the country for political (like myself) or scientific motives (like many of my friends).
I mentioned that I thought you are a typical American. There is no offense here and no intent to offend at all.
As many years as I live in the USA, I never heard Americans distinguish between different ethnic groups immigrated from the former USSR or nowadays Russia: Uzbeks, Jews, Ukranians, Moldavians – all are “Russians” in the American parlance.
I am not going to discuss here whether it’s a sign of illiteracy or negligence or disdain: it may be “all of the above” or something else.
But when and since we discuss here a specific topic related to Jews, the participants of such a discussion must have a clear understanding of whom we are talking about.
The former “Soviet citizens” (a group term that includes all 140 ethnic groups of the former USSR) recognize at once “who is who” not only because of linguistic and pronunciation differences but also because of different cultures and mentalities.
It is particularly important when we have to deal with people from different “republics” of the former USSR and regions of nowadays Russia: all of them have their own specific features.
If you deny this, then why you Americans are so noisy about necessity of preserving different cultures within the USA?
2. So, if I understood you properly, your term “Russians” refers to Jews. Mostly.
But of so, then your long phrase “After the war is over, a contrite Europe decides to allow the few remaining ethnic Russians in their former executioners’ territories to emigrate back to Russia to join the few remaining survivors there and form a new Russian state on a small portion of what used to be Russia before they were expelled from it.” loses any sense.
Whom you call “ethnic Russians”? Based on the context, again – Jews. But then what “a small portion” are you talking about?
You know what…
It would be cruel to analyze your comment in details here: not many people may be interested in such.
So, let me jump directly to your final paragraph:
“Now, given all that, do you honestly think, that, as an ethnic Russian in America, you would not include in your political calculus for supporting a particular U.S. candidate for President, his or her support for Russia and/or rejection of Russia and support of her enemies? If you say no, then you are most likely deluded, or have absolutely no imagination or ability to employ empathy, or are just plain not telling the truth.”
Firstly, I am not what you call “ethnic Russian.” I am simply a Jew on my mother side and Russian on my father side. In Russian, it’s called “half-blooded.” It give me a lot of advantages: I know both cultures and mindsets – Russian and Jewish.
But since I lived under Commies 50 years and I hate Marxism that destroyed my country, I am a sharp critic of those who still play Marxism card (despite many more millions of murdered by Bolsheviks than by Nazis.)
Now… when I applied for the American citizenship, I took the Oath of Allegiance. The Oath that many Americans take so lightly.
And my foremost interests are interests of the United States of America.
That’s why I am strongly against Obama who destroys America I came to.
That’s why I am strongly against those Jews who help Obama destroying America.
That’s why I am strongly against those Jews who build their political preferences ONLY on the base of Jewishness.
That’s why I support and always will support only those “particular U.S. candidates for President” who pursue first of all American interests, no matter whether the Russian government likes it or not.
And by the way, smart and educated Russians within Russia are also against chauvinistic Russian government.
Good grief Constantin, you have missed the entire point of my “thought experiment.” It is not about your theories of a “Jewish-Bolshevik” invasion of Russia by wild-eyed Jewish immigrants, but the obvious parallel I was trying to draw for you about the history of modern Israel. Please re-read it with that in mind. And, you might want to moderate your thinking on the effect of Jewish immigrants on the nascent Sovietization of Russia; neither Lenin nor Stalin, the real bedrock authorities who controlled the Soviet Union from birth until the 1950′s, were neither Jewish nor were they friendly to Jews – in fact they despised them, marginalized them, ghettoized them, deported them and killed them in great numbers. Did you learn history in a Soviet school? And last, your explanations about the ethnic makeup of Russians, whatever its veracity, entirely misses the point about my mention of “ethnic Russians,” as that was merely a rhetorical device to get you to understand about the ethnicity of the people living at different times in territory covering what is now the modern state of Israel.
To David Levavi:
You said: “How the hell do you know this, comrade Ivanov? You took a census? Of course not.”
Of course yes, I took my own “personal” census: I’m living in the midst of Jews, and I worked many times as a Poll site Coordinator and/or R Inspector. Thus I had great opportunities to see and hear how and what my Jewish neighbors decide to vote for. If not to mention tons of surveys and studies available.
“He who wants to hear will hear.”
As for “comrade,” Russians have a very specific expression: “A Tambov wolf is your comrade.”
With your boundless erudition you should know what it means.
Your phrase “The rest are hardly worth mention” is not only highly offensive and actually racist but also perfectly unveils what you are.
As for your caustic remark regarding serfdom in Russia, I dare remind you (sorry, I know you know, how it could be otherwise with your immense erudition!) that serfdom in Russia has been abolished 2 years before the Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation has been issued and 4 years before the emancipation became a reality to the remaining southern slaves after the surrender of all Confederate troops.
A sniper should be always sober…
But you know what… You’re boring.
Because you’re a slave of a very common liberal practice: when liberasts have no factual arguments to defend their position, they always start offending their opponents. Boring. And nothing new.
Oh, yeah, you’re a classic blinkered Russophobe. The same as racists.
It’s not an offense, it’s a gloomy diagnosis.
Dear dafrank,
since you are a polite interlocutor worthy of respect, I’d like to add something I forgot previously:
You wrote:
“…neither Lenin nor Stalin, the real bedrock authorities who controlled the Soviet Union from birth until the 1950’s, were neither Jewish nor were they friendly to Jews – in fact they despised them, marginalized them, ghettoized them, deported them and killed them in great numbers. Did you learn history in a Soviet school?”
1. Lenin’s grandfather – Alexander Blank, a Jew.
2. Lenin’s closes Bolshevik accomplices and LEADERS of the Bolshevik Coup d’Etat 1917, ALL were Jews: Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trotsky, Sverdolov, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Trotsky was ONE OF SEVERAL Lenin’s Bolshevik accomplices who organized the monstrous “Golodomor” (Famine) in the Volga region in order to stifle the national liberation movement of local ethnic groups.
I assume you’d be shocked reading the speech given by Lord Sydenham in the British Parliament in 1923 that publicezed the number of people murdered by Bolsheviks clique from 1917 to 1922 – 30MLN!
3. Stalin’s one of the bloodiest accomplices was a Jew, Lazar Kaganovich, who prepared and organized the nightmarish famine in Ukraine.
4. You would be absolutely right if you had said that it was the end of the Stalin’s era when Jews were
“marginalized and ghettoized.”
But “deported them and killed them in great numbers”?
No, only relatively few were really “deported” (as opposed to “emigrated by themselves”) and there was no any special preference in “killing in great numbers”: take a look at lists of the shot people (publicly available now) and you’ll find that the overwhelming majority of the murdered people were Russians and other ethnic groups, not Jews.
I am very sorry to tell the very gloomy truth which is very hard to Jews to acknowledge.
But in order to die as a decent and honest Jew, one MUST to acknowledge and repent.
5. You asked if I studied at a Soviet school…
Sure, since I lived in the USSR 50 years before I left the motherland. I’ve even got there my Ph.D. approved in the USA.
But the 16 languages which I managed to translate books and articles from gave me great opportunities to get information prohibited by Soviets.
So, I am not much complaining of my education…
Regards.
Dear dafrank:
I have found something what might be of interest to you in addition to what I wrote you previously responding to your phrase “…neither Lenin nor Stalin, the real bedrock authorities who controlled the Soviet Union from birth until the 1950’s, were neither Jewish nor were they friendly to Jews…”
I told you that your belief or your information are based on usual and incredibly widespread propaganda that managed to delude many decent people like yourself.
The link below gives you an excerpt from a real recording of a speech Lenin gave supporting Jews and condemning antisemitism.
If you don’t understand Russian, please find somebody who does and wants to listen together with you.
http://download.sovmusic.ru/m32/lenins03.mp3
I do realize, though, that you might be not predisposed to absorption of information that eventually can overturn your conception of Jews role in history of the triptych “Russian Empire-the USSR-the Russian Federation.”
For that reason I’d also rather refrain from telling you a documented story (with names and photographs) of 150,000 Jews (half-Jews, to be precise) who served in the Nazi Army.
The history is far from being just black and white…
To dafrank:
Once again, I want to make absolutely clear:
I am against Obama not because of his anti-Israel policy (which is obvious), but because of his overall anti-American policy in general(which DOES include his badly-masked anti-Israel policy.)
Sarah has gut-love for the USA, its Constitution, Israel, and the Jewish People.
At 49% that is still too shamefully high. But one can hope…what is taking them so long???! Despite what many are told, you are not better than anyone else if you support someone who wants to destroy you. Suicide is murder also.
“…Doesn’t it mean that the mentioned percentage of Jews are voting as if they are living and voting in Israel, not in the USA?”
No it doesn’t Constantine. But your ignorant and prejudiced comment leaves no doubt regarding your leanings.
Maybe you need to stop and compare Russian contributions to the commonweal to those of the Jews. Begin with the Jewish roots your faith and continue on to the traditional spoiler role of Putin’s Russia.
Spoiler is the only role Russia has ever known. Russians are a people who don’t know how to make soup but are expert in pissing in everyone else’s. It’s a hell of a survival strategy.
My wife points out that I forgot all about borscht. Russia’s singular great invention. So sorry, Constantine. Go soak your head in a bucketful
To David Levavi:
You said: “Russia’s singular great invention.”
Frankly, your illiteracy (or intentional ethnic-based prejudice, whichever you prefer) causes my toothache.
Just to name a few:
Nikolai Benardos(1842–1905) – co-inventor of modern welding apparatus.
Dmitri Mendeleev (1834 – 1907) – creator of the Periodic table.
Konstantin Tsiolkovsky (1857 – 1935) – Rocket scientist and pioneer of astronautics.
Ivan Pavlov (1849 – 1936) – Nobel Prize in Psychology or Medicine in 1904 for research pertaining to the digestive system; the first who described the phenomenon of classical conditioning; best known for his discovery of the conditioned reflex.
Vladimir Zworykin (1899 – 1982) – invented the cathode-ray tube called the kinescope in 1929, a tube needed for television transmission. Zworykin also invented the iconoscope, an early television camera.
Igor Sikorsky (1889 – 1972) – Helicopter and aircraft designer.
Sergei Korolev (1907 – 1966) – “Father” of the space program.
Aleksey Ivanov (1935-1995; my brother) – chief designer of helicopters MI (from MI-6 to MI – 26).
Writers/Poets: Pushkin, Lermontov, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Chekhov, Bunin, Nabokov, Aksenov…
Composers: Tchaikovsky, Rakhmaninov, Stravinsky, Schostakovich, Prokofiev, Schnittke…
Artists/Sculptors: Repin, Kandinsky, Malevich, Shemyakin…
and so on, and so forth.
Go to the Metropolitan Opera in New York – Russian singers, Russian conductors…
The list of outstanding, prominent Russians is endless.
Take a look at the following, you Russians-hater:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_people
3 Explorers
3.1 Siberian explorers
3.2 Explorers of Russian America
3.3 Circumnavigators
3.4 Travelers in the tropics
3.5 Explorers of Central Asia
3.6 Polar explorers
3.7 Cosmonauts
4 Inventors and engineers
4.1 Polymath inventors
4.2 Weaponry makers
4.3 Land transport developers
4.4 Naval engineers
4.5 Aerospace engineers
4.6 Structural engineers
4.7 Electrical engineers
4.8 IT developers
4.9 Medical inventors
4.10 Chemicals and materials inventors
4.11 Nuclear technology pioneers
4.12 Optics and photography pioneers
4.13 Communication engineers
4.14 Musical instrument makers
4.15 Miscellaneous inventors
5 Scientists and scholars
5.1 Polymaths
5.2 Earth scientists
5.3 Biologists and paleontologists
5.4 Physicians and psychologists
5.5 Economists and sociologists
5.6 Historians and archeologists
5.7 Linguists and ethnographers
5.8 Mathematicians and IT scientists
5.9 Astronomers and cosmologists
5.10 Physicists
5.11 Chemists and material scientists
6 Art
6.1 Visual arts
6.1.1 Architects
6.1.2 Sculptors and jewellers
6.1.3 Painters
6.2 Literature
6.2.1 Novel and short story authors
6.2.2 Philosophers and critics
6.2.3 Playwrights
6.2.4 Poets
6.3 Performing arts
6.3.1 Actors
6.3.2 Theatre directors
6.3.3 Film directors and animators
6.3.4 Ballet dancers and choreographers
6.3.5 Classical composers and musicians
6.3.6 Opera and choir singers
6.3.7 Modern musicians and singers
7 Show business
8 Sportspeople
8.1 Tennis players
8.2 Gymnasts
8.3 Figure skaters
8.4 Ice hockey players
8.5 Association football players
8.6 Chess players
8.7 Other sportspeople
9 Legendary and folk heroes
Your problem (which you probably don’t even recognize) is that you instinctively want to belittle, depreciate and even disparage achievements of Russians in order to make Jewish achievements more distinct.
A very foolish position…
In my comment I posted initially, I just wanted to emphasize an incontestable, irrefutable fact that MANY (not all, but the majority of) American Jews put interests of Israel (and, consequently, how the administration handles the U.S.-Israel relations) before interests of America per se.
The Radosh’s column gives the numbers that support my point of view, but there are many other studies available that also support the same conclusion.
By the way, I am also a Jew, so I know perfectly what position my Jewish surrounding takes with regard to the issue I dared touch here.
I’ll become less critical immediately as number of Jews leaning to Democrats/Socialists will be at least the same as the number of those who lean to Conservatives.
But it seemingly will never happen: the steady unwillingness to condemn and repent of the mass complicity in the Bolshevik Revolution 1917 in leading roles (while constantly talking – absolutely righteously – about Hitler’s crimes and 6 million Jews perished in Holocaust but strangely omitting another 6 million also perished in the same Holocaust) seems to ruin any hope for conscience awakening.
And of course, I foresee a squall of accusations of antisemitism… Don’t choke.
Sure, in our society saturated with very specific one-sided “Liberal tolerance” and Political Correctness, we have sooo many taboos…
You said:
“Russians are a people who don’t know how to make soup…”
I say: “Oh sure….” and hold my nose to avoid stench you emanate with your hatred of Russians.
As for my “illiteracy and bias” and your “erudition”… Toothache. Boring.
Constantine-
Yes, David L’s dismissive attitude towards Russia is not warranted, but it is true that, but for a brief few years at Israel’s birth, the Soviet Union, and to a very slightly lesser extent today’s Russia, has assumed the role of implacable enemy to Israel, and has a long history of anti-Semitism, from pogroms, to purges, to paranoid executions under Stalin, to exclsuion from full rights, to suppression of religious expression. There is no arguing with this. The Soviet’s KGB literally invented the PLO and set up propaganda front groups all over the world to deligitimize Israel; the Soviets armed the entire Arab world in order to support their invasions of Israel; today’s Russia still arms and helps develop the conventional and nuclear arms capability of any and all Muslim, Arab, or even simply authoritarian states, all of whom “coincidentally” desire the destruction of Israel. Some of this is just to disadvantage Israel’s only true powerful ally – the United States – some to be the “spoiler,” some to accrue economic benefits in oil price hikes, some to just be seen as “important” again, but some of this is the same old anti-Semitism, dressed anew.
That many of the Bolsheviks and other assorted Socialsits (see my earlier post) had Jewish roots, which of course they either denied, ignored or reviled, is tue, but so what? Many people with Eastern Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant backgrounds, even some Muslims, also became ardent Marxists. By self-definition, if you are a true Marxist, you are not a Jew, except by accident of birth. Marx himself came from a Jewish background and was famously anti-Semitic, hating all religions, but singling out the Jewish one more than any other, considering its close association with capitalism to be especially galling.
Excuse me for suggesting this, but your forum name, if it is your real one, certainly sounds to be about as opposite of a Jewish name as could be imagined. Son of Ivan. Constantine, referring to a Christian emperor of the Eastern Catholic empire. If your real name is Sasha Goldberg, you’ve certainly gone out of your way to post with a name as far from your supposed Jewish roots as possible. Why? Perhaps this is a little thing, but it leads me to suspect that either you are not really Jewish, or, at least, you are trying as hard as possible to disassociate yourself from your heritage as possible. Could such a person hold anti-Semetic beliefs – the answer is quite obvious. Do you? That may never be answered here, but it is not unreasonable to ask this question. What would you think about a German person, supposedly Jewish, posting as Adolph von Hindenburg?
Either way, your stridency about Jews who take into account the welfare of Israel when deciding on Presidential candidates is excessive. How they would treat Israel is but one thing a majority of Jews, except famously in the 2008 election cycle when the opposite was true, seriously consider when choosing to vote. Is this wrong? What about how candidates treat Taiwan? What about how they treat England? How they treat Iran? Should Jews ignore how a candidate would treat Israel? If Jews don’t care, who will? That more Jews oppose Obama now than before certainly has something to do with Israel, but, it is obvious that Obama’s disastrous economic policies weigh just as, or more, heavily in their thinking. And, countrary to your theory of Jewish ethnocentrism, considering that a slim majority of Jews still support Obama, despite his diastrous handling of all domestic issues plus his indifference to Israel, isn’t it obvious that they are not reacting mostly to the welfare of Israel? If they were, it wouldn’t be as though they were judging him negatively depite the great job he is doing on the rest of the issues, would it? To ignore Obama’s whole agenda in the pruning of his support among Jews is ridiculous.
Last, why don’t you try the “thought experiment” I wrote about in an earlier post? If you are who you say you are, you need to reassess your prejudices toward your fellow Jews and examine some of your presuppositions. I too am a conservative Jew and I sometimes despair my fellow Jews tendancy to overwhelmingly vote liberal Left, but I don’t see my fellow Jews as selfishly only considering the fate of Israel as always the primary consideration in their political choices. In fact, in the last 20 years or so, the trend to even include Israel in that consideration has been slowly but steadily fading, replaced by tired Democrat political hackery.
To dafrank:
You accuse me of things I have nothing to do with.
1. My forum name is my real name (which is extremely easy to check; even my Web site shows who I am): I NEVER hide who I am and NEVER speak under masks.
My last name is a very common Russian family name (which I inherited from my father). Historically, it came from a russified version of Johannes (יוחנן המטביל, Йоханан бар Зехарья — «сын Захарии»; Йоханан ѓа-Матбиль [Хаматвил]).
My first name Constantine is also a very common name in Russia (as well as in Romania and France, and even in the USA); it was given to me in honor of my grandfather from my father’s side.
2. It seems that you didn’t read my comments as attentively as I tried to read yours.
I clearly pointed out that I am Jew from my mother’s side. But in Russia, male children almost NEVER get last names from their mother. My mother’s mother was 100% Jewess.
It’s true that not many Russian hereditary noblemen married a Jewish girl, as it happened in my family 100 years ago and keeps happening until very recently.
3. Again, I have to say that you did not read my posts thoroughly enough:
I’ve clearly indicated that I’m against any person who supports Marxists, no matter whether that person is a Jew or a Russian or an Arab or an Eskimo.
Once again: I hate Marxists.
They destroyed my Motherland; they destroyed Europe; they destroyed Asia; they destroyed South America; they are going to destroy the USA.
Therefore, I hate those who support Marxists.
It’s not my fault that the majority of Jews are supporting Marxists or are Marxists. Remember Saul Alinsky?
Or the Obama’s White House?
But I love those who fight against Marxists.
Hence, I love all Jews who fight against Marxists.
I’m just sorry that there are not many of such Jews.
And I bear the same feeling regarding Russians, Chinese, Blacks and anybody else.
So, my preferences are built on the base of personality and personal political views rather than on ethnicity.
I’m a different Jew.
By the way, you always mix up Jewish blood and Judaism:
to be a Jew doesn’t necessarily mean to be a religious person.
Not only am I personally supporting Israel with all my heart and actions, but I also want the American administration do the same.
And therefore, I hate what Obama with his accomplices do to Israelis.
But it does not mean that my decision who I vote for is built only on the base of the particular Administration pro/anti-Israel policy.
If that was my only criterion, I would live in Israel.
I don’t see such a trend among so much “Israel-patriotic” American Jews.
4. I am thankful for your historic lesson regarding the Soviet era.
But I dare assume I am pretty well eduicated, too.
I am perfectly aware of anti-Israel, anti-American, and pro-Arab policy of the Soviet and then Russian governments.
And I firmly believe that Israel should ALWAYS be the America’s most beloved brother.
You said: “That many of the Bolsheviks and other assorted Socialists had Jewish roots, which of course they either denied, ignored or reviled, is true, but so what?”
First of all, it’s not simply that “many Bolsheviks had Jewish roots”: almost the entire Bolsheviks’ ruling clique who committed the Coup d’Etat 1917 consisted of Jews, not just “Jewish roots.”
“So what?” you ask? Wow!
Let me remind you something:
Germans also, not all Germans but many were Nazis, but later they publicly condemned Nazism and their participation in Nazism crimes.
They even pay reparations to Jewish survivors of Holocaust (which also gives a lot of food for thought: what about other 6 MLN of non-Jewish victims of Holocaust? why Germans accept applications from Jews of 65 and even 60 years of age as “survivors”? and why such applications?)
What about nightmarish atrocities committed and/or ordered to be committed by Bolsheviks?
I didn’t hear any condemnation or any repentance.
But I hear a lot of Stalin’s atrocities as if the Bolshevik atrocities started with and from Stalin.
No, those atrocities started IMMEDIATELY after October 25, 1917 by Lenin and his accomplices.
And most of those atrocities were ordered by Sverdlov, Kamenev, Zinoviev, Trotsky, and so on and so forth.
The infamous famine in Ukraine has been prepared and organized by Lazar Kaganovich.
But 10 years before that famine, there was another monstrous famine in the Volga region which was also intentionally organized by Bolsheviks.
Why don’t I hear any repentance or even mentioning of that?
The order that sent my uncle in GULAG(where he died) was also signed by one of such Bolsheviks.
I hate historical amnesia. It makes me sick.
Read my comments again: I am not against Jews who want American support for Israel.
I am against those Jews who “unintentionally” forget that they live in the USA.
If they didn’t forget, they wouldn’t vote for Obama in the first place.
“…the majority of) American Jews put interests of Israel (and, consequently, how the administration handles the U.S.-Israel relations) before interests of America…”
How the hell do you know this, comrade Ivanov? You took a census? Of course not. You’re just a patriot by nature. You’re loyal to Russia. You’re loyal to America. You’re loyal to Israel. It’s just those other Jews who don’t meet your high standards that you are terribly dissatisfied with.
As for your long list of Russian achievers, the only one who stands out is Sikorski who got the hell out. The rest are hardly worth mention.
Russia is the only nation in Europe to have retained feudalism and serfdom through the Renaissance and the Reformation and right into the Twentieth Century. A nation of slaves and masters unworthy and unfit for democracy.
The stench in your nostrils is only cabbage. Hard smell to shake. Harder for some than for others.
That bucket of Borscht is still waiting and your hair could do with a wash.
Sorry, by some mysterious reason my response to you was posted in a wrong place.
Here it is (and it’s the last one):
To David Levavi:
You said: “How the hell do you know this, comrade Ivanov? You took a census? Of course not.”
Of course yes, I took my own “personal” census: I’m living in the midst of Jews, and I worked many times as a Poll site Coordinator and/or R Inspector. Thus I had great opportunities to see and hear how and what my Jewish neighbors decide to vote for. If not to mention tons of surveys and studies available.
“He who wants to hear will hear.”
As for “comrade,” Russians have a very specific expression: “A Tambov wolf is your comrade.”
With your boundless erudition you should know what it means.
Your phrase “The rest are hardly worth mention” is not only highly offensive and actually racist but also perfectly unveils what you are.
As for your caustic remark regarding serfdom in Russia, I dare remind you (sorry, I know you know, how it could be otherwise with your immense erudition!) that serfdom in Russia has been abolished 2 years before the Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation has been issued and 4 years before the emancipation became a reality to the remaining southern slaves after the surrender of all Confederate troops.
A sniper should be always sober…
But you know what… You’re boring.
Because you’re a slave of a very common liberal practice: when liberasts have no factual arguments to defend their position, they always start offending their opponents. Boring. And nothing new.
Oh, yeah, you’re a classic blinkered Russophobe. The same as racists.
It’s not an offense, it’s a gloomy diagnosis.
It doesn’t matter! They support N/E jewish politicos by 95%.
Shumer, Weiner, Rothman……………….
Until they realize that supporting “Their” local guy that in turm supports anti-Israel policy nothing is going to change.
What? Hillary! New policy??? THIS IS HILLARY policy!
Don’t anyone remember her commments?