Oliver Stone is at it again. I previously wrote about him months ago. Stone, now in London to do publicity for his agitprop film on Hugo Chavez, took the opportunity to do some advance publicity for his forthcoming Showtime TV series, The Secret History of America. In his new gem, he will show us how Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were all unappreciated in their own time, since they were “vilified” and he wants to show — particularly in the case of Stalin — how he “has a complete other story.”
Well, if Stone wants to really let us know that it is not just Fidel and Hugo Chavez he loves, but all previous monsters in the 20th century past, he is certainly free to do so. But in his new interview with Camilla Long in the London Sunday Times, he certainly ups the ante. Added to his list of the misunderstood is Iran’s leadership. First, he informs Long that although “Iran isn’t necessarily the good guy,” the fact is that “we don’t know the full story!” Since Stone was given access exclusively to Ahmadinejad when he visited Iran, we can be certain we won’t have to wait long to see the results.
Stone gets exercised when critics like me (whom you’ll recall he personally rebuked a short time ago — you can read my response here) expose his ignorance of history and his treatment of it as a vehicle for left-wing propaganda. It is no wonder that Castro “had been pleased” with the three documentaries Stone made about him, as was Hugo Chavez.
When Long gently asks him whether he is presenting a balanced picture, Stone replies, “The internet’s fully free [in Venezuela]. You can say what the hell you like.” He conveniently ignores last week’s news that Chavez has arrested two Venezuelans who dared to write a few words on Twitter that he found demeaning. And like those in the old Soviet Union who always said when someone was arrested, “If only Stalin knew of this injustice, this would not be happening,” Stone says there is a “section of the Chavista party that is over the top,” and which “inherited shit” from the pre-Chavez government. (Any repression is always the fault of the old “bourgeois” regime.)
Then, Stone finally gets to the forthcoming documentary on our supposed secret history. Stalin and Hitler will be put “in context,” he says, as if historians have not been doing just that for a long, long time. What he means by that, however, is that if Hitler was a Frankenstein, so were “German industrialists, the Americans and the British,” all of whom, he hints, gave Hitler his support.
Oliver Stone is a postmodernist nutcase. Facts are not particularly important. Stone feels he merely needs to remain loyal to the larger truth. The man probably does not spend even ten minutes a week studying Hitler and Stalin. Stone is utterly indifferent towards the major scholars who have thoroughly researched the Nazis and Soviet Communism. He perceives them to be a total waste of time.
The late Howard Zinn and Oliver Stone would have been ignored fifty years ago. Nobody would have given them the time of day. Please note that neither man became truly well known until at least 1980. Their dishonorable—and extremely lucrative careers are the direct result of the lowered standards imposed on the universities by the affirmative action polices enacted in the mid 1960s. The typical university graduate of our present generation is usually a historical illiterate. They are too ignorant to know better.
You are exactly right, but he is only the van of an extremely worrisome attitude out there today. Today’s student, a product of left-wing professors who, if they knew any history, have re-written it to exclude all our patriotic founders and their dream for America. Stone and Obama have the same dream: To see America and all she stood for dead in their lifetime.
You are slightly off-target here. University grads of today are much less intelligent than grads pre-WW II. That’s simply because, before the GI Bill, less than 10% of Americans graduated from college. Since IQ is distributed along the famous Bell Curve, if you allow 40-50% of Americans go to college, the average IQ is gonna drop significantly. This is thinking from “The Wizard of Oz”. People with college degrees are intelligent; if we give this guy a college degree, then he’ll be intelligent too. QED. Sound familiar? It’s the basis for school-bussing and affirmative-action programs.
Well said, David. This is another huge reason why our school system should NOT be in the hands of government.
Here’s hoping Stone’s new project proves as big a failure as “Salvador”, and his brain.
‘Next, Stone insists that Jewish deaths must be put “in proportion.” After all, “Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people, 25 or 30 [million killed].”’
The Soviets lost about 15% of their 1939 population during the war (including around 1.5 million Russian Jews), AFTER they’d launched unprovoked attacks against Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania and Poland.
The Nazis murdered around 75-80% of the Jewish population of Europe that they could get their hands on, and the Jews, taken as a group, hadn’t lifted a finger against anyone.
And, Oliver Stone is a certified idiot.
Pretty impresive “proportions” there that Mr. Stone missed.
Well said. Stalin was just as responsible for WWII as Hitler. If he hadn’t allied himself with Hitler — yes the USSR & Germany started off as allies– the war would never have happened.
Why do they hate us? Could it be because people like Stone and Moore and the glitterati pimp their stuff across the world? Could it be because our own congressmen attend Moore openings and because Hollywood people continue to work with them? David Thomson says our own university graduates are ignorant. Imagine the situation abroad, where few people have direct experience of America and a great many are “educated” by their biased media. A few in Europe have discovered that Moore lied and reported on this, but that was after millions of his books were sold. A Showtime boycott is a start, but more must be done. We need a documentary called The Lies They Tell Us supported by the big names in Hollywood to expose the lies of Stone, Moore, Clooney, etc, and we need those stars to go abroad to arouse interest in it.
There is not a country in the world more open than the US. Anyone can visit any newspaper on line and study the articles and readers comments. Why do we allow the smug intelligencia abroad to spread views of us taken from the NYT and conspiracy movies? Partly because none of our big names has the guts to tell the truth. The protest has to be wider than a Showtime boycott. Our celebrities must be made to take a stand against outright lies and slander. The speaking-truth-to-power crowd has to acknowledge that they have had the power to lie about America and have done so for years, and it is time they begin speaking truth. Maybe a bottom-up approach is needed: letters to local theater owners listing stars and producers who have lied while other stars have kept silent; demands from the public that stars loudly repudiate the liars. I am not talking about censoring; that is not the American way. But I am talking about having the other side presented by those who have the celebrity to be heard, those who jet from one mansion to another because of the opportunities they have in America. Many of these have enriched our culture greatly with their work, but hey cannot ignore their responsibilty to defend us against lies.
I was with you right up until: “…letters to local theater owners listing stars and producers who have lied while other stars have kept silent; demands from the public that stars loudly repudiate the liars…” That is what was commonly called a “black list.” We do not need that in America, as long as people like us keep talking and repudiating the Moores, Stones and Clooneys of our world.
There doesn’t have to be a list, just individuals who stand up and say something when they know things said in a movie aren’t true. They have no trouble criticizing everything else about America. Why shouldn’t they criticize the lies of their colleagues?
Here, here! If some movie star thinks that America is a hole, then let him. What are you going to do, put him on the rack until he loves Rush Limbaugh? Sounds good, but…Nahhhhh.
I couldn’t have said it better. I tried in a conversation I had, on line, with a terrorist in Pakistan a few weeks ago. He sounded very much like Stone????
Oliver Stone is a disgusting pig, a Hugo Chavez lover, he should spend a year as a prisoner at a concentration camp to get his taste of Holocaust.
-Stone spent more than a year in Vietnam as a grunt
with the 25th Infantry Division, then with the First Cavalry, earning a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart with an Oak Leaf Cluster.
I think he understands privation, and understands death.
His service deserves respect, not his opinions.
He understands death and privation?!
Let him talk to my mother, who literally had to chew grass and shove it down my uncle’s throat to save his life on a forced death march. Let him talk to my aunt (of blessed memory) who endured Mengele’s “experiments.” Let him talk to my grandparents who barely survived the labor brigades.
Oliver Stone’s service in the military has been duly noted. But his films and his words are a disgrace to the ideals of this country and by extension to the very uniform he wore, the flag he fought under and the brave men and women who also fought and gave their lives wearing that same uniform.
He has dishonored himself and his country. His views are repugnant, offensive and a complete distortion of historical facts.
J.J. Sefton… most epic response of my life.
David W. Walters… FAIL. You just got TOLD, son.
Really? Explain.
J.J.,
” But his films and his words are a disgrace to the ideals of this country and by extension to the very uniform he wore, the flag he fought under and the brave men and women who also fought and gave their lives wearing that same uniform. He has dishonored himself and his country. His views are repugnant, offensive and a complete distortion of historical facts.”
I think you have spoken for every American who loves this country. Thank you for a comment that cuts to the heart of the issue. Worth reading ten times over. MBY
“Let him talk to my mother, who literally had to chew grass and shove it down my uncle’s throat to save his life on a forced death march. Let him talk to my aunt (of blessed memory) who endured Mengele’s “experiments.” Let him talk to my grandparents who barely survived the labor brigades.”
-Human beings should not have to suffer through what most European Jews and others had to at the hands of Nazis. All Nazis who were guilty of war crimes should have been punished. But not all were……
“But his (Oliver Stone’s) films and his words are a disgrace to the ideals of this country and by extension to the very uniform he wore, the flag he fought under and the brave men and women who also fought and gave their lives wearing that same uniform.”
-What was a disgrace was the fact that war criminals guilty of using slave labor, perhaps using even your own kin for their projects, were exonerated and hired by our own government with out any trial or any punishment. Nazi SS-Sturmbannführer Wernher von Braun comes to mind. Von Braun acknowledged, in writing, that he personally selected workers for his V-2 assembly plant at the Dora-Mittelwerk facility in the Harz Mountains near Nordhausen from camp inmates at Buchenwald. And you have the gall to defame Stone for serving his country in a useless war? His service noted, but I doubt understood.
Again, my sympathy goes out for the suffering of your family members who suffered unspeakable horrors from our enemies, enemies many young Americans shed blood to avenge, only to have that bastard von Braun awarded The National Medal of Science in 1975!
I did not defame his service. HE defamed his own service by spewing that garbage. And, by the way, we actually WON the Vietnam War. The treaty that was signed was not a cease fire but an armistice. The communists gained no victory. Nixon bombed the living $hit out of them in Linebacker 1 and 2 and forced them to sign.
It was the Democratic congress that abrogated our treaty obligations to South Vietnam that allowed the North Vietnamese army to roll in, unopposed, and conquer the Republic of South Vietnam. And as a result, the Democrats are responsible for the 2-3 million who were butchered in the killing fields.
I stand by my statement. Just as John Kerry destroyed any credibility and honor that he might have had by bearing false witness before Congress in 1971 (to wit, claiming the American military, as a matter of policy, was acting like the Waffen SS and Einsatzgruppen in Vietnam) Stone’s military service is rendered NULL AND VOID as a result of his statements and actions since.
J.J. Sefton,
“I did not defame his service. HE defamed his own service by spewing that garbage….”
Facts are not garbage. An inconvenient truth? However, you fail to respond to the real garbage which was the hypocritical action of this country that allowed a war criminal to escape justice. Where is your indignation over that? Red American blood flowed (-along with British, Canadian, French, Russian, and yes Jewish blood too) to bring these criminals to justice, but some were let off the hook. There is no justice, is there?
Piss off David! Perhaps Olivier Stone was a good and a decorated soldier. So was Otto Skorzenny. That doesn’t make him automatically a good human. And he smeared his own service with the repusive ideological excrements he is producing, spreading like AIDS and infecting millions of brainless followers of communo-fascism. Whatever good he has done in the early years of his life, he destroyed it later.
As to Werner von Braun. Yes, it was morally repulsive to allow Braun to kontinue his career in the US without making him accuntable for his war crimes. America is not without faults. But is pales in comparison with what the US has done for hte freedom of others. No other nation has done so much and bore so many sacrifices like the US.
And remember you idiot smearing your own country that immediately after the WW2 both Russia and the US fought for the German scientists and in fact those were the Soviets that managed to get many more of them than America. That was the reality of the aftermath of the war.
And if you are mentioning in your ignorance America’s “complicity” in helping the war criminals getting the “new” life, what about keeping silent about much bigger genocide perpetrated by the Soviets? What about keeping silent about the Soviet Union’s complicity in starting the WW2? It has also been convinient for the US administration at that time to stay silent about that.
What about watching and doing nothing when Mao was commiting his own crimes against humanity?
Why is your hero Stone silent about that?
See my response at comment #50.
“Piss off David! Perhaps Olivier Stone was a good and a decorated soldier. So was Otto Skorzenny.”
-So you compare an SS officer to grunt doing his time in Vietnam, just so he can get the GI bill. Nice try.
“America is not without faults. But is pales in comparison with what the US has done for the freedom of others. No other nation has done so much and bore so many sacrifices like the US.”
-I’m glad you agree with Mr. Stone and I on this one. And that is the point…… when our nation’s actions betrays the blood of common grunts like Oliver Stone, my dad, myself and all the others in times past and present, it blots out these sacrifices and cheapens our sacrifice.
Oliver Stone inspired these actions….
Local Synagogue Vandalized With Words of Hate
Swastikas, slurs cover Olney synagogue
By JOHN SCHRIFFEN
Updated 6:29 AM EDT, Tue, Jul 27, 2010
As parents arrived early Monday morning to drop their kids off for summer camp at the B’Nai Shalom Synagogue in Olney, Md., they were greeted by a derogatory name for Jews spray-painted on the building.
“I started welling up with tears and tried to conceal it from our 3-year-old,” said concerned parent….
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local-beat/Local-Synagogue-Vandalized-With-Words-Of-Hate–99272519.html
Give it a rest, David. You’re a pathetic troll who attempts to obfuscate real issues by parroting the lunacy and lies of Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. Notwithstanding Oliver Stone’s service as a soldier – WHICH HAS ZERO BEARING ON HIS ACTIONS AND STATEMENTS SINCE – do you stand by and/or agree with what he has stated? If so, you’re an America-hater and a Jew-hater. And a gutless one at that. No more, no less.
That’s David Walters. Not David P.
Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky? Never read any of their stuff. What i know comes from living life. I’ve been to many places including time in the Sinai, among quite a few other countries in that region as well as Central America as an Intelligence Analyst. Hate America,….no. I love my country. As to hating Jews, I may not like Israeli policy but I don’t hate Jews. I doubt Stone does, and yes I agree with him that Israeli influence on our foreign policy is a problem. I agree with him that many Americans do not have a firm grasp on history and world events. Most Americans rely too often on so-called “experts” I like to make my judgments based on what I see and know to be truth.
No wonder David like Stone, he also likes Chomsky.
And to think, David expects people to take him seriously.
And this justifies Stone’s love of murderous dictators and his anti-semitism?
I’ve made it clear I agree with stone that the Nazis had enablers both in Germany and around the world. Stone’s purpose is informative. We Americans have this notion that we only do good in the world, and it just isn’t so in ALL cases. Pseudo-intellectual dishonesty? If you say so…..
There you go with the pathetic strawmen again.
Can you find a single person, I mean actually name names, who has ever said that the US only does good things?
What is it about liberals that they are unable to deal with the real world and have to instead argue against figments of their own imaginations in order to find someone that can out think.
MarkTheGreat,
what “figments of their own imaginations” are you talking about? Maybe you’re referring to “….many Americans do not have a firm grasp on history and world events”. I don’t know, you’re not very clear on this.
In reference to this statement:
“What is it about liberals that they are unable to deal with the real world and have to instead argue against figments of their own imaginations in order to find someone that (you?) can out think.”
-it’s clear you’re projecting. You live in a world of denial and are trying mighty hard to show me up. Keep trying Mark.
I must admit, I am beginning to warm to Stone’s love of dictators. They don’t have to put up annoying self-important pimples like Oliver Stone. If we lived under a dictatorship, we could simply stick him in a dark festering hole that matches the inside of his head.
I’ve seen very few of Stone’s films. The reason being that the ones I have seen are laugh out loud nonsense. His latest remarks are no surprise.
Honestly, I don’t think ‘clueless douchebag’ is inappropriate.
Oliver Stone insists that successive Gentile American leaders are so boneheaded and stupid that they are led around by a clever and tricky cabal of Jews to work against American interests and I suppose to work in favor of Jewish interests, whatever they may be.
In the drug and alcohol twisted Oliver Stone universe, I guess this is supposed to mean that Oliver Stone is one of the smart and knowledgeable Gentiles who sees the truth about this Jewish conspiracy and has the guts to call it what it is.
On the other hand, as one of Oliver’s despised Jews, I am more inclined to believe that Oliver Stone is a moronic and hate fueled fool, with a definite talent for producing idiotic and vitriol filled crap for other fools like him.
Oliver Stone’s father is jewish and his mother is not jewish. So I don’t knw if that makes him a “gentile” or not but I just figured I would let you know since you referred to him as a gentile.
It does however it is not his lineage but his cognition, or lack of it, that is the culprit.
I think Ken was just inserting a little sarcasm with no harm intended.
Stone’s parentage would have been easily enough for him to be gassed by Hitler’s minions.
I looked up Stone on the Wikipedia list of Jewish Hollywood personalities and didn’t find him there so I correctly assumed he was not Jewish.
And yes my sarcasm was intentional.
What I find disturbing is that some like Oliver Stone, who I would assume to be informed and mature, would so stupidly and tastelessly espouse the belief that a cabal of clever and wealthy Jews have somehow fooled and led by the nose the largely Gentile government and media of the United States into acting against their own interests.
I really think that if an idiot and bottom feeder like Oliver Stone can make block buster movies then I should move to Hollywood and make movies too.
Apparently just about anyone can succeed in Glitter City!
Wow, great piece, thank you. This particular focus on Hitler over the years is not because of Jewish-dominated media, academia, etc. but a left-wing dominated media, academia, etc. (well represented by extremely liberal American Jews, but containing lots of other groups as well). Their motive is to link Hitler with the American right wing, which is absurd — there is very very little that the German National Socialists had in common with American conservatives (except, perhaps, things like being patriotic, pro-military, etc.). Both the German National Socialist Party and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union were extreme statists who wanted to totally subjugate the individual to its power. American Conservatives want to elevate the individual over the State and limit and check the authority of government.
The problem is that the left winger secretly or subconsiously admire Hitler because of his ability to increase the power of the state to utterly crush the individual and get his agenda through no matter what (sound like anybody we know?).
Jonah Goldberg (a conservative American Jew) has already explained all this in his phenomenal book “Liberal Fascism”. In short, he argues that the Nazis were not a right-wing group, but a left-wing one and they and the Communist differed in only a couple of categories and were really quite similar to one another: two mean dogs bitterly contending over the same bone. Just remember, they didn’t call themselves Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers’ Party, NSDAP, Nazis) for nothin’…
The Evolution of Fascism
Lenin, 1917: Class-based International Socialism
Hitler, 1933: Race-based National Socialism
Obama, 2008: Class- and Race-based Post-National Socialism
I’d also like to add that I am a pro-Israel Gentile. My father was in the 1st Infantry Division in WWII and his stories what he saw at the liberated concentration camps will stay with me all my life. I will pass them down to my children as well.
Although this would be an unusual format I for one would like to hear what your father had to tell. This comment section works for me if you would like to share a story.
When talking about the Communists, the Nazis and the Fascists as a group I refer to them as the Socialist Sects.
I like it!
I read a good bio of Hitler…It talked about the communists and the Nazis marching arm and arm during rallies in the 1920′s…they had a convergence of ideas, only one was internationalist and the other nationalist…
Despite that fact that they appeared to be opposites, Hitler and Stalin each admired the other at some level.
The single most horrifying remark I’ve ever read was one made by Stalin to his daughter AFTER the Germans had invaded the Soviet Union: “It’s too bad Hitler had to go and invade us; *_TOGETHER_*, WE COULD HAVE REALLY DONE SOME THINGS!” [emphasis added]
Despite their apparent ideological differences, Hitler and Stalin still admired one another on some level.
The single most horrifying thing I’ve ever read was a remark Stalin made to his daughter AFTER the Germans invaded the Soviet Union: “It’s too bad that Hitler had to go and invade us. **__TOGETHER__** WE COULD HAVE REALLY DONE SOME THINGS!” [emphasis added].
Ideologically, Hitler and Stalin were not that far apart.
Please go to http://clarespark.com/2010/04/18/links-to-nazi-sykewar-american-style/. There you will find out what “socialism” meant to Nazis, but more how American progressives used their propaganda techniques to manage the little people who supported Hitler. It was German conservative nationalists who enabled Hitler’s movement, and they were right-wingers opposed to the social democratic Weimar regime. Some sharing their ideology were part of the 1944 effort to assassinate Hitler. Nazis were above all opposed to “Jewish Bolshevism” and the (Jewish) bourgeoisie. To make statism the test is to blur 1. the context of the Nazi phenomenon as a response to internal communism and the Soviet Union; and 2. the uniqueness of the “racial state” and its populist effort to build a people’s community;and 3. The conservative enablers of Hitler, some of whom were in his ruling coalition until the mid to late 1930s. Jonah Goldberg’s book wants to make American progressivism (especially eugenics) the impulse behind German national socialism and violence, and this is ridiculous.
That’s all left-wing revisionist propaganda created by the same people who have revised the Red Scare into being some uncalled-for-effort on the part of right-wing maniacs. Are you now or have you even been a member of the Obammunist Party?
Jonah Goldberg focused on the major ideological currents underpinning the Nazi movement. The concept that the state should serve as a substitute god was a core doctrine. Economic statism was also a nonnegotiable part of that belief system. The conservative non-Nazis were both anti-Semitic and hostile toward toward constitutional governments—but they are not even slightly interested in embracing the totalitarian aspects of Hitler’s movement. Their horrible mistake was thinking the Fuhrer could be kept under control.
It should also be added that the Nazis were philosophical utopians. That may be the most important thing they shared with the Communists. The non-Nazi conservatives were not very nice people—but none of them were seeking to establish a utopian paradise on this Earth.
Clare Spark. Two years ago, the German weekly, Der Spiegel published an article based on newly discovered archives that shed lots of light on the cooperation between Nazis and commies before overthrown of Weimar Republic in Germany.
In that article tittled “Nazis und Kozis” (Nazis and Commies) its author quotes the letters Stalin was sending to the leader of German Communist Party, Ernest Thalmann in which he ordered Thalmann to cooperate with Hitler in his drive to destroy the German democracy. Stalin was also writing about “working out the differences with Nazis in relation to governing post Weimar Germany.
So the German communists are to the same degree responsible for the succes of Nazis as the duped so called “industrialists”.
Non-Nazi conservatives helped Hitler gain power—but for their own reasons including greed. This is not the same thing, however, as their being ideological blood brothers! The Communists and Nazis were very similar. So much so, a large number of Communists converted to Nazism virtually overnight. It is fairly accurate to assert that the Nazis were national and ethic socialists while the Commies at least officially were multi-racial and multi-ethnic.
Just because some is rich, or runs a big company, is not proof that they are conservatives.
Great comment, Khan. All my life I’ve heard that Stalin was extreme left and Hitler was extreme right. That’s been taught as a basic truth for the last fifty years. So, how the heck are Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Regan, and Milton Friedman like Adoph Hitler? Big government? No. Centralized economy? No. The whole, ‘Nazis are right-wing thing’, is an example of the Big Lie told to perfection. Probably by the Russians – leftists for sure.
Just when I thought I couldn’t possible dislike Oliver Stone anymore.
Stone is silent on Islam which in his eyes can do no wrong.
Maybe he should get this:
Saudi Arabia, the center of the Islam, has now created a government-run SMS system, funded by the taxpayers, which keeps tabs on women. The SMS messages are automatically relayed to the husband so that he can figure out where his property has strayed. Women are legally classified as property in the Koran along with cattle, slaves- Saudi Arabia refuses to sign the anti-slavery conventions since Islam approves of slavery-, goats, and other goods that may be bought and traded. It is important in Islam, where a man can have many wives, cattle and goats, to know if his durable goods are on the loose.
I wonder if the Western leftist, anti-America, anti-Israel rabble are ready to allow their masters to receive SMS messages when they stray? If it’s good enough for their Muslim heroes, I assume that it’s good enough for them, too.
http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/07/26/muslim-technology-prevents-women-from-escaping/
Stone seems to have adopted the Palestinian ” logic ” that the more of a group that is killed the more moral their position regardless of any other fact. In other words if ten robbers invade your home and you are luck enough to save your family after only one family member is murdered you are, ipso facto, the bad guy. Or in Stones view, more dead Russians than Jews means the Russian narrative should reign supreme. Its only because Jews control……
We have heard that before.
Of course that Hitler planned to murder every Jew on the planet, leaving no safe haven anywhere, and the dispute with Russia was territorial and had the Russians surrendered lampshades and soap would not have been their fate, makes not a bit of difference to the befuddled and soul-sick Stone.
Perhaps it is drink, or drugs, or too much sex, or the inability to have sex at all, that have driven Stone crazy. Or he has ben watching too many Leni Riefenstahl movies.
Perhaps he is simply looking for Saudi money to finance his next series of films now that the check from Castro has bounced.
Bonehead Stone. Now thats a movie.
Afterthought – Bonehead Stone starring Mel Gibson as Bonehead.
I smell a blockbuster.
“Or in Stones view, more dead Russians than Jews means the Russian narrative should reign supreme.”-Menachem Ben Yakov
Is that what Stone is saying, because from the Camilla Long story, that’s not what I got. Oliver was speaking about 2 things here. First and foremost, Hitler had enablers in his despicable quest for Jewish extermination. He lays it out…. “German industrialists, the Americans and the British….” Americans and Brits? Yeah, our intelligence knew of what was going on in Nazi death camps by 1943. Why didn’t BBC (-the most listened to source for news in ALL of Europe, including Germany) broadcast this knowledge? It could have a multifaceted role in informing Jews not already rounded up as to their fate if they are rounded up, and to inform the German people as to what was going on. How much that could have help is debatable, but the question arises, Why did we NOT publicize the holocaust when we knew?
That Russia’s civilian population was so devastated is not common knowledge among most Americans. My guess is that Stone would like to see Americans to see things through a lens of knowledge rather than ignorance. He’s not saying Jewish deaths are ANY less important than Russian deaths(many of whom were Jewish), he’s just saying there were a hell of a lot of dead Russian civilians, not to mention Red Army soldiers(up to 10 million dead by some accounts)
“Soul Sick”? Perhaps Mr. Stone has a right to be soul sick as you say, since he takes his country very seriously. You may not like him, but what he says is the truth….
Walters, Since you believe everything Bonehead says is true you subscribe to the following rant-
” Why such a focus on the Holocaust then? “The Jewish domination of the media,” he says. “There’s a major lobby in the United States. They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy for years.
Since you think such hooey is true there is no point in dialogue.
Menachem-
“There’s a major lobby in the United States. They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy for years.”
It’s true! There was a time I was an avid supporter of Israel. It was with some sense of pride that Israel defeated the many armies arrayed against them in the 6 Day War of 1967. I bought a book called “Strike Zion!” which recounted their glorious victory. I personally served with the Multinational Peace Keeping Force as a member of 1st Bn Abn/508th (Inf) in 1985. The Sinai Desert sucks. But I have changed. Friends of mine died in the Beirut bombings of Oct. 1983. We had no business being there but for that same lobby Stone alludes to. Gen. Petraeus even said as much a few months ago in a speech to lawmakers in congress, but was forced to backpedal.
“Since you think such hooey is true there is no point in dialogue.”
Hooey? It’s just the truth. Israel has a disproportionate voice in U.S. foreign policy.
I recognize your perspective but as for declarations of truth, omniscient you aren’t, and neither is Stone. Your personal biases and prejudices notwithstanding.
There was a time when I was pro-Gentile as well. This has changed mostly because of encountering too many people just like you.
Regarding Beirut, it’s thoroughly absurd to believe that Reagan sent Marines there to protect Israel. In fact, his stated rationale was to protect ‘Palestinian’ Arab civilians from the Maronite militias allied with Israel (sort of) after Sabra and Shatila. Of course, Israel gets the blame from folks like you for that incident as well, while ignoring the literally scores of massacres of Christian Lebanese by Muslim forces. But no never mind…and the same Shiite elements – Amal and nascent Hizbollah – that destroyed the Marines and the US Embassy also killed many many Israeli soldiers in South Lebanon. Who were belatedly sent there after about ten years of PLO incursions into Israel from that very place.
Meanwhile, policy under Obama towards the ME is almost solely ‘directed’ by Saudi Arabia, if by any ME state. And this can be easily shown.
“There was a time when I was pro-Gentile as well. This has changed mostly because of encountering too many people just like you.”
If this statement is true, then you are no better than David. Two peas in a pod.
Walters, You are talking through your hat. Israel has f–d up US policy? Without Israeli help the US would never have won the Cold War. It was Israel that deprived Sadam Hussein of nuclear weapons. You are so blind you can’t see the forest for the trees. And by the way heres a little list that may open your eyes to the enormous contribution Israel has made across the board.
The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.
Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.
The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel.
The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.
Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
The technology for the AOL Instant MessengerICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.
Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U. S, Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel’s air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16’s. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.
Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.
According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry’s most impenetrable flight security. US officials now look (finally) to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.
Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin – 109 per 10,000 people –as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.
In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of startup companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world — apart from the Silicon Valley, U. S.
Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U. S.
Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ ! listed companies.
Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East.
The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.
Twenty-four per cent of Israel’s workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.
Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews (Operation Solomon) at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.
When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world’s second elected female leader in modern times.
When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day — and saved three victims from the rubble.
Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship — and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 – in the world.
Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity. (Hundreds of thousands from the former Soviet Union)
Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as “conflict free.”
Israel has the world’s second highest per capita of new books.
Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.
Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.
Medicine… Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.
An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.
Israel’s Givun Imaging developed the first ingestible videocamera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, cancer and digestive disorders.
Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the camera helps doctors diagnose heart’s mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.
Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.
A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the Clear Light device, produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct — all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.
An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California’s Mojave desert.
All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other county on earth.
good post Walters. many AMERICAN FIRSTERS agree with you. What is unnerving is that many 9 not all) jews put Israel before the USA. thats treason.
You are correct in that OS is ant-American. However as to the statement that you highlight:
“Why such a focus on the Holocaust then? “The Jewish domination of the media,” he says. “There’s a major lobby in the United States. They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington. Israel has f***** up United States foreign policy for years.” needs some scrutiny. Taking out the first and last sentences you have:
“The Jewish domination of the media,” he says. “There’s a major lobby in the United States. They are hard workers. They stay on top of every comment, the most powerful lobby in Washington.” Now that statement may not be totally off the wall in light of the Jurnolist expose. Go look at the members of that list and tell me if they are WASPs. I think not, most of them are Jewish. They certainly framed the last presidential election.That being said, OS is still someone who should just go away.
If you actually believe that you can tell who is and isn’t a Jew, just by looking at their name, then you are too ignorant to be allowed into polite society. Just go away now before you embarrass yourself any further.
“First and foremost, Hitler had enablers in his despicable quest for Jewish extermination. He lays it out…. “German industrialists, the Americans and the British….” Americans and Brits? Yeah, our intelligence knew of what was going on in Nazi death camps by 1943.”
And if Stone had been alive then, he would have lobbied against the US entering the war and would have pushed the fashionable lie that Jewish international bankers wanted to manipulate the Allies into war in order to profit from the blood of Christians. You can hear the same stuff today from Pat Buchanan, Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore and countless others, only now they sometimes say Zionists or Jewish neoncons instead of international Jewish bankers, and the supposed motive is now Israeli domination rather than war profits.
Is this site becoming a second Commentary magazine? We are going to hell at warp speed and people are worried about a conspiracy nut?
But Stone and his noxious re-writing of history are 2 of the very reasons we’re going to hell at warp speed. Doing nothing to protest CBS’s broadcast will simply get us to hell faster.
Wait till his revisionist history movies have the “youngsters” sweeping us to hell at warp speed and it will be too late to do anything about the nut.
Better that people are forewarned and and educated to be ready to identify the rubbish before they become indoctrinated with the conspiracies.
If people are that dumb then all is pretty much lost anyway.
“He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.” -George Orwell, _1984_
Pedro, I used to think that way thirty years ago – ignore the conspiracy nuts, mostly academicians in the liberal arts with wild-eyed conspiracy theories and Hollywood heads. I thought no sane individual would listen to this garbage, so I ignored them like my friends suggested.
Twenty years passed. The last ten years, I’ve witnessed a generation of new adults about ten years younger than me, who act, think, and reason like the wild-eyed liberal arts instructors everyone told me to ignore. They say Evangelical Christians are the Taliban, believe democracy evil and corrupt, Saddam less dangerous than George Bush, and they put Obama into his Presidency in huge numbers.
I discovered the hard way, most Americans incredibly gullible, open to suggestion, and superficially grounded. Oliver Stone types can no longer be ignored.
“The late Howard Zinn and Oliver Stone would have been ignored fifty years ago. Nobody would have given them the time of day.”
I am a high school teacher and a colleague, a relatively young teacher, uses his own copy of Zinn frequently for “another perspective.” As if the textbooks he’s issued aren’t bad enough (they are). He is a truly good-hearted young man but quite, quite ignorant.
If you think that is bad at least one history instructor at the US Coast Guard Academy used Zinn’s history. At least two parents felt it necessary to complain (I was one) to this military academy as though it were a high school with a lefty history teacher!!!
I love unpopular causes!
Oliver Stone said:
“Hitler was a Frankenstein but there was also a Dr Frankenstein. German industrialists, the Americans and the British. He had a lot of support,” Stone told Sunday Times’ reporter Camilla Long.
Stone said that, “Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people, 25 or 30 [million killed].”
-However politically incorrect it is to note, what Stone said is absolutely true. He notes that though Hitler killed the Jews, he had enablers in German industry. The reference to Americans and Brits was that our intelligence KNEW about the Death Camps form Jewish escapees in 1943, but absolutely did not publish this knowledge. Why? It would seem to be a propaganda bonanza. Why wasn’t this information not blasted out on BBC (Most Germans listened to BBC to get the real information on the war’s progress, i learned from my German relatives)? It would have had an effect on Himmler and Hitler. But in this silence, they did their dirty work….Hitler’s damage to the Russians is well known everywhere except here in the United States…..there were many more Russian civilians than Jewish killed by the Nazis. Why are facts so hard to face?
Oliver doesn’t hate America, he just gets pissed that we Americans can be so ignorant. Ignorance only serves the rulers. And Oliver has seen first hand how that ignorance affects every day average American.
As a combat vet, He fought with the 25th Infantry Division, then with the First Cavalry, earning before he was discharged after a 15-month tour in 1968 a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart with an Oak Leaf Cluster.
During this tour of duty, he came up with the concept for the fictionalize account he brought forth with “Platoon”. This showed how our conflict in Vietnam divided Americans in an unhealthy way, largely
Your moral relativism is disgusting.
The USSR under Stalin enabled and encouraged German aggression by signing the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact in 1939. As you must know, this pact had a secret protocol dividing up eastern Europe as between Germany and the USSR in anticipation of Hitler’s planned war.
The only problem was that Hitler thanked Stalin by invading the USSR in 1941. As a result, 25 million Soviet citizens died. I agree this was a tragedy.
But if, as you contend, we should feel MORE moral outrage over Hitler’s killing of Soviet citizens than over his extermination of European Jews, then please explain: What did the Jews of Europe do to enable and encourage Hitler’s aggression the way Stalin did?
“we should feel MORE moral outrage over Hitler’s killing of Soviet citizens than over his extermination of European Jews,…”
-I NEVER said we should feel more moral outrage one over the other……
I said: “….Hitler’s damage to the Russians is well known everywhere except here in the United States…..there were many more Russian civilians than Jewish killed by the Nazis. Why are facts so hard to face?
Oliver doesn’t hate America, he just gets pissed that we Americans can be so ignorant. Ignorance only serves the rulers. And Oliver has seen first hand how that ignorance affects every day average American.”
-We (Americans) do not have a sense that Russians bled so much in their part to defeat the Nazis. Red Army soldiers liberated Auschwitz, don’t forget. And if you like sweet revenge, Red Army soldiers raped their sector of Germany.
“I NEVER said we should feel more moral outrage one over the other”
Interesting…because if you WEREN’T saying that, then you were simply pointing out that 25 million is a larger number than 6 million. Which is a pretty pointless exercise.
So unless you’re admitting that your post was pretty pointless, it seems you were INDEED suggesting we should feel more moral outrage over Hitler’s killing of 25 million Soviet citizens than over his extermination of 6 million European Jews.
“because if you WEREN’T saying that, then you were simply pointing out that 25 million is a larger number than 6 million. Which is a pretty pointless exercise.”
-Negative. I was pointing out that most Americans are aware of the contributions the of the Soviets in WW2. Don’t jump to conclusions.
Just because you claim something, doesn’t make it true. In fact the opposite is more likely to be the case.
There you go building strawmen again in order to find someone that you can defeat in a battle of wits.
As to your claim that Stone doesn’t hate America, I can only consider the source it comes from.
Perhaps Stone doesn’t like what we’ve become. I don’t know, I can’t speak for him. As for me, I see the so-called Patriot Act as an affront to the Constitution I swore an oath to defend. Yeah, there’s room to improve.
Movies, too. Lots and lots of Hollywood “historical” pieces.
It looks like you’re pulling a play out of the JournoList playbook. Just call anyone you disagree with a racist/anti-semite/islamophobe/etc. Any reasonable person would deduce that the amount of jews is the reason Hollywood has a holocaust movie every week.
It’s the ongoing leftie attempt to use Hitler to exonnerate Stalin. Hitlerism and Nazism have been totally debunked and shown to be the evil that we know them to be but somehow Stalinism is different because Hitler made him do it or something like that. To fully debunk communism is to taint their socialist dream which they just cannot give up on. Therefore communist crimes are always the fault of the other or it’s “real communism” has never been properly tried. Give it a few minutes and one of our trolls will tell us so.
So how come the nutcase Mel Gibson gets excoriated (and rightly so) while the equally, if not more so, nutcase Oliver Stone gets a pass in the media.
I think you know the answer but it is a good rhetorical question.Stone is a leftist so even if he is anti- jewish it is pardonable.
Oliver Stone is a revolting piece of cow dung but not as valuable.
Well said.
I refuse to see Oliver Stone movies – and I will no longer watch Platoon. Stone is a sick puppy who hates Jews, the USA, the military, etc., but loves dictators such as the murderous Mao, Stalin and Hitler. Yeah, Oliver, I see your rotten dictator friends “in context”. They are monsters and you are a monster lover.
Frankly, there may be something to one part of Stone’s assertion: there are a lot of “Jews” in the media. Take a look at the name on Journo-list: preponderantly secular Jews. But they are nor religious Jews, they are secular Leftists, marxists.
Not everyone with a Jewish sounding name is a Jew.
Besides what Menachem said, there are a lot of African Americans in pro basketball and a lot of Latin Americans in pro baseball. That does not mean that either of them “dominate” those sports, sport.
If the media is dominated by Jews, why do his movies always get produced and distributed?
The good news is that someone such as stone doesn’t like Jews. Given his level of credibility (or lack thereof) who would feel comfortable being liked by an enthusiastic fan of genocidal sociopaths?
Oliver Stone, like his buddies Oogoe Chavez and Arachnid-jihad, has a screw loose.
Or several screws loose.
There is no other explanation.
I usually agree with what you post, but here I respectfully disagree.
There is another explanation.
A big one.
John Paul II said it : hitler has been the emergence of the beast in history.
These guys are tools of evil.
Our society, wrongly, denies the existence of evil and the power of evil on human minds. But there exists such a thing.
We can pray for the guy, he is sliding on the other side.
His heroes, chavez and the mad iranian, are the other side already.
Since we are there, let’s pray for us all.
Stone is even sporting a mustache these days. I wonder if he understands freedom at all.
Can Europe have the hormonal wherewithal to prosecute Stone for Holocaust denial as they have done others if it gets to that?
Ooooo he’s famous. Ooooo, he’s rich. Oooooo, he’s in the movie business – unlike the poor schlemiels who’ve been ignorant enough to put their deranged views on paper.
Stone ‘s overdosed on his own arrogance and while may be a nice guy overall for some, he’s become seriously infatuated with his own fan club – made up of people who he’s idolised on film. It is sort of a mutual arrogance-in, as opposed to love-in; and he’s in the centre as he owns the camera.
As we’ve seen many times before, some people do not have the mental equipment to handle any success.
The guy’s a schmuck. Or a putz. I always get the two confused. A real intellect. It is true, that he has spent years researching the WW II era (his personal library of Classic Comics is exhaustive). And he undoubtedly appeals to the terminally aggrieved Left. Hitler, Stalin and Mao ‘in context’. This demonstrates a grasp of nuance exceeding even the indominitable John Francois Kerry. But, a schmuck is a schmuck is a schmuck. And a buffoon.
No one, seems willing to do anything but call Stone names. What Oliver says is not politically correct to the Israeli Lobby. But it is true Likud exerts a powerful influence in the U.S. Congress and State Department. One never makes many friends being brutally honest.
Oh, of course! Brutal honesty is soooo much better than the ordinary kind. How do I roll my eyes here?
Funny, people who complain about the “Israeli lobby” never seem to notice the Palestinian lobby which has created the largest welfare nation on the planet with nothing positive to show for it or the Saudi lobby which keeps the oil flowing despite the fact that Saud is a human rights waste land that forbids Jews from entry and forbids all non-Moslems from entering Mecca and Medina on penalty of death. Defending someone who vomited out a popular meme in a centuries old myth about, what was it you said, uh, Jewish “disproportionate influence”, does not mean you are being brutally honest: just brutally ignorant.
“Funny, people who complain about the “Israeli lobby” never seem to notice the Palestinian lobby”
-Palestinian lobby? How much clout does the “Palestinian lobby” have on our government? About zero.
Of course David. The fact that the govt fails to follow the course you choose is solely because those darn Jews control everything.
Now go back to the childrens table and stop bothering the adults.
First of all ‘The Israeli Lobby’is nothing in comparison to the Arab Lobby,Where do you think the mosque that is being built at Ground zero is receiving it’s more then 100 million Dollars from.They refuse to divulge the donors.Also Arabs are buying up some former Presidents like Carter [most of the money for his library was paid for by Saudi and Kuwaiti sheiks and princes].Also most university’s receive millions from Arab and Muslim countries,that’s why they have such anti Israel Mid East Depts.And last but not least the retired U.S. Ambassadors from the more then 20 Arab countries are on the payroll of those Arab countries.At least the ‘Israeli lobby’ is made up of U.S. citizens just like the Greek lobby and Armenian lobby. BTW i applaud Oliver Stones service to the country,but like my friend told me when i had an arguements with him’Just because you served the country does’nt make you an expert on all things’
Oliver is ‘ brutaly honest’. Yes. And about as smart as you can be having earned a high schoold equivalency diploma. His biggest fans are, at the same time. stupid and ignorant. Stupid for their passive acceptance of the crap he expounds. Ignorant because they don’t know any better, or care. A mind (sic) is a terrible thing to waste. My advice, don’t mention that you are a rabid Simpsons fan on your CV. (do cesspool drainers have CVs??).
What a witty response! You must have an Ivy League education for something that eloquent.
David,
Likud doesn’t even have control over Israeli policy. They have only 22 percent of seats in the Knesset, one less than Kadima. They don’t even control themselves, 70 percent of Likud members disagree with their chief executive Netanyahu.
Likudnik, like neocon, is a code word
Btw, the Liberty was never “sunk”. She went to Malta under her own power after the blue on blue mistaken attack. Should I bore both of us with a similar list of US attacks under far better technological conditions than existed then in our recent adventures? Hint, why do we hate Canada? Oliver Stone could tell you a lot about our own troops killed in Vietnam by our own firepower.
His war experience is no big deal. Lots of folks come out of war and hate it and the people who put them there. It is a normal response. My dad got those medals, except for the purple heart, right when Stone was there. One of my best friends is an Israeli, now US citizen who served in Gaza and hates the whole thing. If I try to bring it up he shakes his head and asks me something like “so when are we going fishing at the cabin again?” he just got a new jet ski so I am thinking next time I have off…
Spindok
Oh, when all is lost you’ll resort to blaming everyone here to be a bigot and call poor Mr. Stoned names.
Let me tell you something, David; I spent more time in the ME than you ever will (if you really did) and unlike you, I’m very familiar with the inside politics of the area.
Your stupid comment about the Likud was a giveaway of your poor knowledge of Israeli politics.
Also, Mr. Stoned and your claims that Jews are in charge of the media and that they have such an immense impact on American Politics are old libels. Why don’t you guys come up with something new and refreshing for a change. AIPAC is not doing anything that the Arabs or for that matter any other special interest group aren’t doing but, oh, the Jews dare think of their interests, oh, the Jews in Israel dare defend themselves. Sure, you and Mr. Stoned would have liked it better if the Jews would just keep being good and obedient victims.
I don’t care if Mr. Stoned wanted to show his mass murderer pals in a different light as long as he keeps it clean and true to real history but it seems like he’d rather blame the victims and their liberators than the true perpetrators of the atrocities against Jews, Polish, Dutch, gays, disabled, Russians, French and many others.
It’s amazing how quickly the anti-semites get to their core beliefs that the Jews run everything.
Right David. If it weren’t for those darn Jews, the entire world would be perfect and everybody would agree with you.
Anti-Semites, no. Anti Israel, most definitely. Tell me this, aren’t there some Jewish Israelis who oppose the treatment of Palestinians by Israel? Would they be anti-Semites.
Damn straight, David. If Stone made a movie that convinced one liberal of the brutality of the Soviet regime, he’d be found dead in an alley with his head bashed in and his trousers bunched around his ankles.
And the cowardly little gerbil knows it, too. Which is why he’ll do anything to avoid making that movie.
They Soviet regime was brutal? Are you for real?
(GasP!!)…Why i never knew.
“It is true, that he has spent years researching the WW II era (his personal library of Classic Comics is exhaustive).”
ROFL
That was a good one, carla.
If you want context, just read “Mein Kampf”. Adolf lays it all out there Mr. Stone.
Oliver Stone has lost his way….and the best way to give him a message is to boycott his new movie about that dictator Chavez…if it bombs…we won. I will never ever see another movie by Oliver Stone…as far as I am concerned he does not exist. Let us see if he went down to Venezuela and did a hit job piece on Chavez….he would be thrown in jail..Now he wants to impose this puff piece; this drivel; this suck up junk about a two bit dictator to the U.S. market? Well…not so fast Ollie. We are smarter than you think we are, Go sell your garbage pieces to China, to Russia, to Iran…
If Oliver Stone builds a full size replica concentration camp for a Holocaust movie set with real barbwire and requests Jews from all over America to appear as cast members, DON’T GO!
Stone wants to create another Hitler movie “in accurate context.” These are getting to be like Rocky or Rambo movies. How many of them do we need?
Interestingly, I watched a movie recently that put Hitler “in perfect context”.
If you haven’t seen Downfall, I highly recommend it. The last days of the Hitler are portrayed through the eyes of Hitler’s personal secretary. After watching it, I perfectly understood all I needed to know. One moment charming, the next minute a crazed madman at both German and Jew, I came away understanding how Hitler could charm a nation, and still be a complete monster. The man who portrays Hitler is uncanny in his ability to look and act the part.
And smart Jews have correctly surmised it could happen again.
Ditto on the “Downfall” recommendation. Hitler is portrayed by Bruno Ganz, my favorite German actor.
Stone has always had problem with his facts. Try this- 80% of the Jews Hitler had power over were murdered.
‘Stone said that, “Hitler did far more damage to the Russians’
That’s what he said, all right.
Only, it isn’t true. Jews suffered far more losses, proportionately, than the Russians did.
And, anyway, tough luck for the Russians. The Russians lost around 15% of the population of the Soviet Union (a lot of whom weren’t Russians, btw, they were people that the Russian imperialists or Russian communists had conquered) AFTER they had attacked all kinds of other countries, and AFTER they had MURDERED hundreds of thousands of people (at least) who resisted, or who the communists thought might resist, being added to the Russian Empire.
Sorry, I don’t feel too sorry for all the Russians who were killed, because they pretty much had it coming. Germany lost about 8-10% of it’s population in WWII, and I don’t feel too sorry for them either, because, like the Russians, they deserved it.
The Russians want to go around attacking Finland and Poland and slaughter Finns and Poles for no legitimate reason, and then millions of their guys get whacked out after that? Serves ‘em right.
And, Oliver Stone is a fatuous idiot.
The ‘American’ Lefties have been ratcheting up the hatred of Jews for a good while now (frog meet slow boiling water). Some self-hating JINOs seem to be oblivious to the fact that this won’t bode well for them too. American Jews need to wake up and take the creeping antisemitism seriously. Huffpo allows Jew hating almost daily (I’ve seen this BLATANTLY there and at other Lefty websites and it never gets moderated out and people almost ‘high-five’ each other over their hatred for Jewish people). It’s becoming downright ‘a-okay’ to hate on Jews in the media. Jewish people need to start standing up for themselves before it escalates even further. How bad could it get? Do we really want to ‘go there’? *shakes head*
Delia, it always amazes me how self-hating Jews (Soros, Chomsky et al) can play this game. It’s the ultimate version of appeasing the crocodile in order to be eaten last. The Jew hater will not give you a pass for refusing to be or appear Jewish. In the end the pod creatures will all turn on the last Jew, point and scream. Next time they’ll know who you are Gyorgy Schwartz.
“The ‘American’ Lefties have been ratcheting up the hatred of Jews for a good while now….”
Can’t speak for anyone but myself, ….I may detest Israeli policy towards Palestinians, but I don’t hate Jewish people. Hell, There maybe a sizable minority of Israelis that are Jewish that detest Israeli policy towards Palestinians.
That’s right David, the only Jews you hate are the ones who secretly run the world.
I hope that finally he will go away now. Even the leftist idiots in Hollywood don’t like someone trying to “put Hitler in context”. The guy hasn’t made a good movie in decades, same with Woody Allen, Francis Ford Coppola, and many others. It’s sad that he’s trying to film documentaries, if anything he should go into comedy since his recent movies are so hilariously bad!
David Walters makes some interesting points, but in common with Oliver Stone and a few of the commenters on this site, logic and rationality go out the door when you start talking about a nefarious “Lobby” that knows all and secretly controls things. No one can ever point out specifically who this lobby consists of or how it controls the US. All they can do is point to lists of Jewish sounding names and selectively interpret data.
The deaths of Russian civilians in WW2 isn’t widely known in America. The notion that this is because of a Likud conspiracy controlling America is far fetched, yet that’s what Stone says. And as someone else pointed out, and what should be obvious to anyone, is that while Russians may have had a higher civilian body count, the six million Jews killed represented 2/3 of all of European Jewry, and something like 80-90% of the Jews in the areas the Germans conquered. If Stone doesn’t understand that, how much real value can he have as a historian?
Michael Moore…Oliver Stone…Jimmy Carter…Barack Obama…Al Gore…
Where DOES the left find these people??
If Stone decide to paint a self-portrait, he would only need one color: maroon.
One can only shake their head at what supposedly constitutes an intellectual, insightful perception of what can only be described as an alternate universe. In my view no one can really be that stupid. Like any successful salesperson in the business of profiting from providing what the majority of their target market wants Stone and others structure their attitudes and public persona’s to maximize the profit from the product they provide. To anyone paying attention it’s obvious that outrageous, off the reservation, unconventional wisdom sells. Would the Cosby show, I Love Lucy, Little House on the Prairie, Gun Smoke, Bonanza, etc. have the same appeal in today’s environment? No! What sells, in their view, is America as the false hope of the world, the war mongers, heartless killers of innocents, the true terrorists, the “rampant racists,”the rabid superpower, the greedy colonialists, the worlds major polluter, oppressor of the masses controlled by a very small (and therefore convenient target of the coward) cabal of Zionists who use the “alleged” Holocaust to justify their nefarious deeds and intentions. Does that about sum it up (There are signs that this is changing; one can only hope)?
This appeals to the fertile, immature minds of the innately rebellious youth steeped in this anti-historical, anti American rhetoric disguised as historically accurate, deep, intellectual thought, read from texts bought, paid for and provided by the Saudis, and taught by adults they’re encouraged to respect, tenured “intellectuals” masquerading as teachers, professors, etc. They, the aforesaid youth, are also immersed in a sea of violence, sex, depravity and profanity that augments their sense of what constitutes reality. This process requires constant escalation. Conventional wisdom, historical accuracy based on what are now very drab facts just don’t fit the template and bore this crowd to death.
Enter the Oliver Stone’s and Michael Moore’s as closet if aberrant Capitalists merely jumping on the “depraved, outrageous fiction masquerading as historical fact” bandwagon hoping to make a lot of that profit they declare, to anyone who’ll listen to their crap, they hate. It’s evil don’t you know, as they stuff their wallets and off shore bank accounts and wallow in the luxurious lifestyle they profess to despise………and a lot of their rabid fans suck it up……stick it to “the Man.”
Talk to your kids and grand kids folks and expose this for what it is, early on; as early as possible. America is dealing with a generation, maybe two that have been immersed in this crap, indoctrinated, immune to what we maddeningly see are the simple truths. They are convinced that only they can lead us out of the “pit of despair” created by the profit motives of the moneyed class and lead us all to Nirvana. They will be loved, revered for leading us out of it and will sit upon their golden thrones reaping their just rewards for making all of us equal….dragged down to the level of the lowest among us. Oh happy, glorious day.
Geppetto, Your comments are spot on. A little late perhaps as now we have to live with the result of all that mush pushed into the brains of the young.
After all it was they who gave us the current occupants of The White House.
Once criticism however, Sanford & Son was left all your list.
Clever screen writer, Olie Stone, I suppose this means some new Stone films, say, Springtime In Stalin’s Russia? Jewish Romancing In The Orient? I’m curious how he can credit the Jews for Pol Pot and Uncle Ho and the Cambodian holocaust though. Oh, I know, maybe it was all those French Jewish Marxists teaching agrarian communism to Uncle Ho when he was visiting Paris? Maybe it was tricky Dick’s propensity for the oval office expletive deleted “Jew boy rat fuckers,” aimed at the Eastern liberal establishment, apparently one of Nixon’s favorite exclamations, that rubbed off on Olie when doing Frost on Nixon? I bet Olie refers to the Jew a lot, even when not stoned. Maybe Olie, a member of the western liberal establishment, is just going native?
One more anti-semite leftist.
“There is very very little that the German National Socialists had in common with American conservatives (except, perhaps, things like being patriotic, pro-military, etc”
Wars are funded by corporations directly and indirectly. Munitions and war materials create fortunes for the worlds largest corporations, this is Key to understand when allowing your government to demand war.
It does not make any difference to financiers if you call them right/ left/ conservative / Liberal….American Conservative or United States Liberal…these are labels used to keep people blogging while they pick your pockets.
The Tabulating machine company (TMC) sold its products to the Nazi war machine to operate and manage the logistics required to move field equipment, fuel, men, food, and supplies throughout Europe during the war. This company became international Business machine, or IBM.
Allen Dulles, and the G.H. Walker ( father of Prescott Bush, grandfather of President Bush) investment company, along with the Harriman Bank created the Union Banking Corporation (UBC). This group set up I.G. Farben in America to promote Nazi and socialist philosophies as well as Political Support in Washington D.C.
The US govt seized all shares and assets of UBC ( at this time run by Prescott Bush) in October of 1942 under the trading with Enemies act when publicity began to leak and it could no longer be contained. The following week the US govt seized additional companies belonging to these families, namely Holland America trading and Seamless steel companies. The Dulles brothers were heavily involved in funding the Nazi War machine, making millions in profit before and during WW2.
The Dulles family went on the manage and operate the OSS and CIA agencies.
The Bush family invested along with the Dulles family in Petroleum, armaments, and political relationships in the Middle East and continued their relationships with the offspring of I.G Farben ( BTW, I.G Farben also developed and manufactured ZyclonB, the chemical used in Concentration camps to murder 6 million+ jews) companies to this day.
I dont support Oliver stone or his message, however history is History and should be respected and Honored as factual events they are.
These are just major Points of interest to the funding and management of WW2. there are dozens more examples of American companies, banks and individuals financing the Nazi war machine, knowing full well what they were doing.
You are spot on factually. However none of these facts excuse Bonehead for his anti-semitic statements.
How come you left out Ford and GM”s Opel? You must be slipping. OTOH, you got Zyklon B in there though so points for that.
The Dulles family went on the manage and operate the OSS which went on to fight the Nazis. George H W Bush nearly lost his life fighting the allies of the Nazis. TMC went on to fight the Nazis.
To say that one is pro-Nazi because one had business interests in Germany or attempted to work with Hitler before war started — as some American businessmen attempted to work with Stalin or are attempting to work with Hugo Chavez — can fairly be called slander (i.e. bearing false witness).
With regard to Zyklon B it was neither developed nor produced by IG Farben, nor was it designed to kill humans. It was designed by Degesch — an acronym for German words translated to German Limited Company for Pest Control” — as a pesticide and patented in 1922. Hopefully you know enough history to realize that that was two decades before the Holocaust got in full swing. Zyklon B was in fact widely used as a pesticide in the U.S. and is still used as such today in some places.
IG Farben was founded in 1925. It did acquire the patent for Zyklon B along with a significant minority of shares in Degesch but to say investors in IG Farben were responsible for the Holocaust because of this connection is bizarre reasoning.
Oliver Stone and his buddy Jesse Ventura are immersed in crackpot conspiracy theories. But to believe that Nazism shared something call “patriotism” with American Conservatives is completely naive. There was no German patriotism in Nazism but a universal doctrine of world domination. Didn’t Hitler himself condemn the German people for losing the war? Also it is time to stop the crap about the involvement of German corporations in the rise of Nazism. The historian Henry Ashby Turner put a decisive end to such speculation. Go read his book with the approximate title German Business and Nazism.
Analyzing anything Stone does, or says, is a waste of time and effort. He is an American hating degenerate, period!
The late sixties and early seventies was apparently a bad time in this Country. The affluent self-absorbed youngsters of the day had it way too good and had nothing to do but rebel. “Never question authority,” “never trust anyone over thirty,” etc. A little rebellion is expected when you’re eighteen, but after twenty, it is time to grow up for god’s sake. Viet Nam didn’t help much and gave them something to wrap their warped ideology around: America bad, everybody else good. I don’t know why they hate America, maybe they weren’t breast fed or maybe their mommy played too much bridge and didn’t giver them the attention they needed, god only knows. Unfortunately for Whack-jobs like Stone(ed) and his ilk, Vietnam ended and so did their chief reason to hate America. Sadly for them, the facts didn’t support their twisted feelings which ultimately forced them to resort to using any kind of tortured logic, denial, or delusion to hold on to their sixties era America hating beliefs for so may years.
All I can say is if I ever came face to face in public with him, I would spit in his face without hesitation. Let me tell you how I really feel
we already know and established the Ahmadinejad ia dictator and a doosh.. so Stone’s report is going to meaningless..
ther is blog here today that Glen beck has a book out and it is on NY times best selling. As Much as GB hates NY times I am sure he is happy to be there at least this time and should thank the Times for helping him to make a sh…load of money.
but what is the difference between GB and Stone? nothing. the are both trying to make money and they both do not give a f…how.
GB: publishing books that spews hatred and the neo cons will buy it and GB makes a sh…load of money.
Stone: pulishes/conducts interviews with dictators and porttrays them as so not a bad guy and liberla will buy his BS.. and he makes money. so what seems to be a problem here?
There are always people like Stone lurking about. What is really depressing is that he gets treated seriously by so many people.
I believe that, as Forest Gump summed it up: Stupid is as stupid does.
If he had any convictions at all, he would surrender his passport and take up residence Venezuela. But, of course, he won’t. Why do you think?? Like all of the leftwing trash, they want it both ways. But he new Hitler moustache is very becoming. The guy is an A-hole.
Well, to co-opt a leftie mantra, up against the wall, Oliver.
Please do not switch the subject. We are discussing the actions of a man who has now made a career out of libeling innocent people and 2 just nations. Oliver Stone’s military service is now as irrelevant as his work as a film maker. His words have reduced them both to excrement.
Again – I stand by my statement.
Please do not switch the subject. We are discussing the actions of a man who has now made a career out of libeling innocent people and 2 just nations. Oliver Stone’s military service is now as irrelevant as his work as a film maker. His words have reduced them both to excrement.
Again – I stand by my statement.
Oliver Stone and Mel Gibson will soon be working together on a new project to be filmed in Iran and financed by their good buddy Hugo. The title has not yet been decided upon but I understand the truth about the “Jewish Problem” will finaly be brought into the open and perhap a “Final Solution” will be discussed in an open truthful forum. Of course this could only take place in the open and truthful Iranian society of Iran.
Oliver and Mel – Kiss my Jewish Ass!
Is this what the left has come to? Socialism merged with the Socialism of Fools?
Repent. Repent. The end is nigh.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of “Spiritus Mundi”
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
– William Butler Yeats (1865-1939), “The Second Coming”
Because a man was courageous on a couple of occasions forty years ago does not mean that he can perceive the world correctly today while focused on his colon.
Stone is a lover of evil; a satanite.
Intellect and talent have no necessary correlation with virtue, so his offerings may be entertaining; but thoroughly wrong. I will not help subsidize his evildoing by seeing his movies.
This is the beauty of free speech and the First Amendment. The most effective remedy for Oliver Stone is Oliver Stone. Give him a live microphone and then people can see for themselves the unhinged lunacy of the Left in general and the entertainment industry in particular.
Way to go Oliver Stone. people are tired of hearing about the holocuast like its the only tragedy that ever existed. MANY people have sufferred and been killed. MILLIONS have been tortured and genocided besides the jews. Many wars exist TODAY. there is beyond enough ‘holocuast’ movies out there. give others a chance to heal. its not fair that the lack of representaion for others sufferrings is not expressed.
“Allen Dulles, and the G.H. Walker ( father of Prescott Bush, grandfather of President Bush) investment company, along with the Harriman Bank created the Union Banking Corporation (UBC). This group set up I.G. Farben in America to promote Nazi and socialist philosophies as well as Political Support in Washington D.C.”
No, they didn’t create it. It was created and owned outright by William Averell Harriman (with Harriman owning 3991 of 4000 shares in the corporation), and it was created years before the Nazis came to power.
The purpose of the corporation appears to have been to facilitate Harriman investments in Europe.
And, btw, G.H. Walker wasn’t Prescott Bush’s father. Father-in-law.
Thank you for correcting yours truly.
Prescott Sheldon Bush (May 15, 1895 – October 8, 1972) was a Wall Street executive banker, and a United States Senator representing Connecticut from 1952 until January 1963. He was the father of the 41st President of the United States George H. W. Bush and the grandfather of 43rd President George W. Bush
-but this came from wikipedia, so it must be wrong….
George Herbert Walker wasn’t Prescott Sheldon Bush’s father.
I’ll try this one more time (for some reason it is not linking to the appropriate comment thread) so here goes:
What the US did post WW2 was not excusable. While the reason for employing ex-Germans in the CIA and other areas of the US govt. is understandable in the context of the times, it was wrong to continue the practice once the records of those involved (some reaching the level of war criminal status) was fully known. The Soviets did the same thing and were allied with Germany until 6/22/41. Does that upset you? Che Guevara was a brutal, psychotic murderer but are you going to get your panties in a bundle because of the way he’s been deified for 50 years? (crickets chirping as leftist troll’s head explodes).
That said, all this has nothing to do with the issue. We are discussing the actions of a man who has now made a career out of libeling innocent people and 2 just nations. Oliver Stone’s military service is now as irrelevant as his work as a film maker. His words have reduced them both to excrement.
Again – I stand by my statement.
“What the US did post WW2 was not excusable.”
-So don’t excuse it. If we continue to gloss over hiring war criminals and excuse them, that cheapens the blood lost in defeating those foes. (We knew exactly what von Braun did by his own words no less….he confessed to using Buchenwald prisoners that he hand picked!)
“Understandable in the context of the times”
-Maybe, I understand where you’re going with this. We also excuse a Japanese war criminal to gain access to his work in biological agents, but we didn’t give that guy an award that I’m aware of.
Does it upset me the Soviets “did the same thing….” Sure, but we are suppose to have a higher standard than they.
Putting this all into context, President Eisenhower warned our nation about the collusion of industry and military. Since then he’s been proven correct in his assessment. And Guys like Stone and myself end up doing their dirty work. We are sick and tired of it, that’s all. When Stone mentioned the collusion of American business and industry with Nazis (-probably speaking of Prescott Bush) and I brought up elevating a war criminal by awarding him, thereby elevating him in status, we enable this sorry behavior and it is a blot on our nation’s honor as the land of the free. I stand by my statement as well sir.
Re Stone’s military service: You can be a decorated miltary vet – and still be a jackass. Look at John Murtha.
Well Stone did it now. He stepped on the third rail. He mentioned “Jew”. Don’t get me wrong I personally believe Stone is a total ass. But look at what he is. He has trashed Christians, Conservatives, Capitalists and pretty much is a traitor to the country that made him wealthy by kissing the behinds of every dictator and despot in the world. But up to now he was revered as a great genius and getting slobbered all over by the press. But now he mentions “Jew” and all hell breaks loose. Where was the anti Stone press when the maniac was trashing the other groups? You know he may have a point about the Jews running the press. In the USA at least. As far as his Hitler and Holocaust comments he is a total fool.
” Menachem Ben Yakov (-from 11 above)
Walters, You are talking through your hat. Israel has f–d up US policy? Without Israeli help the US would never have won the Cold War. It was Israel that deprived Sadam Hussein of nuclear weapons. You are so blind you can’t see the forest for the trees. And by the way heres a little list that may open your eyes to the enormous contribution Israel has made across the board.
An impressive list!
However, you forgot one thing…
-Sinking the USS Liberty by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and motor torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.
The attack on the USS Liberty was a tragedy for which Israel apologized and paid reparations. That doesn’t replace the human life lost. However in wartime ” friendly fire ” incidents occur.
The USS Liberty incident was one of the most investigated events in US Naval history.
The CIA issued its finding on June 13, 1967. The result- ” No malice. The attack a mistake. ”
The US Navy Court of Inquiry issued its findings on June 18, 1967. The result – ” Mistaken identity. ”
The report by Clark Clifford issued on July 18, 1967. The result- ” No evidence the ship was known to be American. ”
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence investigated for years, from 1979 to 1981. The result- ” No merit to claims attack was intentional . ”
The Naval Security Agency investigated in 1981. The result- ” Mistaken identity. ”
The House Armed Services Committee investigate from 1991 to 1992. The result- ” No support for claims attack was intentional. ”
The last investigation was initiated by White House Chief of Staff John Sununu. He met with Liberty veterans, and then referred them to Representative Nick Mavroules, who was the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Investigations of the House Armed Services Committee. After a one year investigation the matter was closed. There was nothing to support conspiracy claims.
Despite the fact that several USS Liberty vets have contradicted their own sworn testimony, making a cottage industry of their charges, there is not a shred of evidence proving israeli fighters knew they were attacking a USS vessel.
I doubt any of this info will change you mind. However for those who study historical events without prejudice my comments may shed some light.
“-Sinking the USS Liberty by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and motor torpedo boats”
It wasn’t sunk. You need to check your facts, BEFORE you start holding forth.
-You’re right. I misspoke. The Israelis shot up the U.S.S. Liberty, they didn’t sink it. Their attack caused about 200 causalities aboard the ship. -34 crew members died. The attack occurred during daylight in international waters. It would seem the Israelis were a bit trigger happy. Yes, a mistake, but it is telling about Israels short fuse. Yes, the Israelis paid out damages to the victims and our government for damages.
She wasn’t sunk, Mr. 007.
Also most of Israel’s military casualties during operation Cast-Lead were caused by friendly fire. Dose that mean they are suicidal?
“She wasn’t sunk, Mr. 007.
Also most of Israel’s military casualties during operation Cast-Lead were caused by friendly fire. Dose that mean they are suicidal?”
- GOOD retorts……
It’s all OK because the U.S.S. Liberty didn’t go to the bottom?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311#
-it was the opinion of some crew members AND the captain that sinking the Liberty was what the Israeli Navy was attempting. Why? To blame it on Egypt or the Soviets? The U.S. Navy at first actually believed the Liberty was under attack by Egypt, and launched an air strike towards Egypt, only to recall it.
Israeliophiles will say we were compensated. We were, as well as the families. But that is just sweeping it under the rug.
Or how about the case of Johnathan Pollard.
“For years after Pollard’s captured, Israel insisted he was a rogue agent – but in 1998, during his first term as prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu admitted that the agent was part of an officially sanctioned operation.”
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-pollard-was-an-israeli-spy-oren-must-clarify-remarks-1.297638
Why is Israel spying on us? If our interests were so intertwined, there’d be no need for such duplicity on Israels part.
Is it anti-Semitic to not trust Israel’s motives?-Mr. 007
In David’s world, friendly fire incidents never happen. Either that or he believes that Jews never make a mistake.
Friendly fire? Really….
What you are arguing has absolutely no bearing on Oliver Stone’s statements. Either you agree with him or you don’t. At least have the guts to admit it instead of engaging in pseudo-intellectual dishonesty.
I’ve laid out my “pseudo-intellectual dishonesty” for Menachem Ben Yakov in #11, go back and read that.
Don’t feed teh TROLL.
You can’t convince a closed hate-filled mind.
Question for David W. Walters – what have you ever done to make this a better world?
“Don’t feed teh TROLL.
You can’t convince a closed hate-filled mind.”
-Troll? i can’t hardly deny that…..i do the same on liberal sites.
But close minded, no. I see this site a bit like i see HuffPost, filled with political hacks. I know i won’t convince you or Menachem, but i can expose some hypocrisy.
“what have you ever done to make this a better world?”
-Oh, i guess you’d like me to say i keep my carbon footprint small, but i hate to disappoint. I spew carbon as good as the next.
All i’ve really done is raise my kids to work hard and to treat others with respect. At work, i try’d to lead by example. As a surveyor/highway construction engineer, i tried to teach my subordinates all i could, because when i was coming up, lots of my superiors would try to keep as much information to themselves as they could. I suppose they were just trying to remain top dog.
I’ve been to lots of places in the world away from major hotels and resorts. I’ve seen a lot of real things happen. I’ve seen an air strike go wrong. I’ve killed people. That did the world little good, but i can convey this knowledge to a new generation.
My step son is joining the army. I give him all the advice i can. I worry about him, for he has no idea what he’s getting into. But he will learn, just as i did.
psuedo intellectual and dishonest.
Finally you’ve said something about yourself that is accurate.
Yeah, i’ve seen “friendly fire” first hand. But that was a bit different. There was no big American Flag waving over a lone ship at mid day. Maybe the patrol boat skipper didn’t see it. I’ll give him a pass. The crew of the Liberty won’t though….
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311#
“Pseudo-intellectual dishonesty”? That’s what J.J. Sefton said about me. I didn’t say it.
Oliver Stone?
NBC employee Tim Kring was asked by the media: “How did you get the TV show “Heroes” on the air at NBC?
Tim Kring answered: ” In Hollywood they say if HITLER wrote a great screenplay they’d send a limo to the airport to pick him up… Great creativity comes from everywhere, I was flubbed(before) and I didn’t just want a show on the air, I wanted something big, bold and I wanted to prove them wrong. Only problem was I didn’t have an idea, so I was just
left angry and worried about it… I lied and cheated and schemed and manipulated all the way through the idiocy that is the notes process when you do this, was able to push the production through relatively unscathed and in the form that it would work in… That’s how Heroes got on the air… It’s not the most original idea in the world, you build and borrow. Just put these pieces together in the right way, at the right time, and on the right network.”
Read more of this interview at: http://blog.the-eg.com/2007/12/04/tim-kring/
We have not seen this story in the media anywhere, Tim Kring has not apologize for his anti-semitic remarks and he stills work at NBC.
Why the double standard?
Mr. Walters has discovered that wars are dirty nasty affairs. WWII no exception and the double agent deceptive crap that went on has been well documented, those are only the parts we know about.
You know from whence comes the aphorism that “all war is deception”. That wisdom predates anything we are talking about. It proves nothing beyond “all war is hell”. We knew that.
I think you know which side you are on. I do. So be it.
I think there is a slim chance now to make a deal with the PA. Major borders can be adjusted with Jerusalem shared. Keep mind that Jerusalem has been annexed and declared Capitol by Israel and not recognized by anyone else, including the US.
The biggest problem for both of those parties, and many other nations in the region is Hamas. Every time some idiot makes a ‘flotilla’ peace gets pushed further back. It is what Stone, David Walters and the other useful idiots want.
Number of US troops who died defending Israel – zero
Number of US troops who died defending our great friends in Iraq, Afghanistan, Boznia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait… (lowers eyes)
Spindok
In support of what your saying:
http://freedomsyndicate.com/fair0000/latimes0027A.html
WEST BANK: Many Palestinians would agree to Israeli citizenship
In fact, if the non-indigenous Arabs had accepted Jews in 1948, they would have had a wonderful life – with all the freedom and opportunities of a free people. Of course that requires them to not think of Jews as ‘untermenschen’
———–
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermensch
Untermensch (German for under man, sub-man, sub-human; plural: Untermenschen) is a term that became infamous when the Nazi racial ideology used it to describe “inferior people”, especially “the masses from the East,” that is Jews, Gypsies, Poles along with other Slavic people like the Russians, Serbs, Ukrainians, so-called Mischlinge and anyone else who was not an “Aryan” according to the contemporary Nazi race terminology. The German word Mensch literally means human.
“Mr. Walters has discovered that wars are dirty nasty affairs.”
-Quite right there Spindok, I learned it first hand.
“I think you know which side you are on. I do. So be it.”
-I’m on the side of peace for Israel and their neighbors. I detest the hateful terrorist attacks against Israel, and I also don’t like seeing Israeli bulldozers leveling Palestinian homes. I yearn for peace in that region.
On a previous post your corrected me on the U.S.S. Liberty. No, it wasn’t sunk on 8 June, 1967. However, 204 U.S. Naval men and officers were causalities by Israeli military action against that ship that day. 34 of those men died. I have no idea why that happened, given our close relationship.
I served in the Sinai in 1985. I had the opportunity to meet Israeli soldiers and officers. I found them very professional, but I cannot say the same for their Egyptian counterparts. Israel came to terms with Egypt. It is time to come to terms with Palestinians.
I believe our close relationship with Israel is part of what drives the hatred of Islamic terrorists. The perception among many is that we enable Israel. The lands they won in the 6 Day War are to Israel, security. To others, it is a land grab. Israel has a right to security, but I cannot support their methods of forcing Palestinians out of their homes and land. I have no idea how Israel and the Palestinians can agree to peace, and that saddens me.
Oliver Stone is – and this probably isn’t politically correct – a retard. Definitely.
Good work Frum.
All criticism of Israel must be silenced.
” I believe our close relationship with Israel is part of what drives the hatred of Islamic terrorists. ”
David,
You and I have argued back and forth several times. Some here have accused you of being an anti-semite. I don’t believe that to be true. I do think that you are unaware of the deception that has been perpetrated upon you. In that you are like many Americans. It is not that you are not intelligent, I think you are. However when lies are repeated long enough and often enough they take on a truth of their own. That is the heart of the problem.
Your statement, which I quoted above, is an excellent example of what I am talking about.
In saner times, before moral relativism gained its insidious grasp on American society, enemy propaganda was dismissed. People understood that the statements of the enemy were meant to cause harm. There was no call to label a lie a ” narrative ” in order to present the enemy viewpoint as worthy of consideration. It was understood that to do so would weaken our position and increase the possibility of our being defeated.
If Israel ceased to exist, G-d forbid, would there be no American bases in Saudi Arabia? Would Americas dependency on foreign oil be diminished? Would the Taliban be less interested in controlling Iraq? Would the Saudis feel less threatened by Iran? The answer to all these questions is no.
The country with single greatest expertise in the battle against Islamic extremism is Israel. The Jews have been fighting that extremism for almost one hundred years, and heres the point, we have been doing so successfully. In fact, since Israel has a huge population that originated in the countries that are hotbeds of Islamic extremism today, no other country has the human intelligence capabilities that Israel has in this arena.
The greatest fear that the Islamist has is that one day a US administration will understand that rather than being a handicap for America , Israel is the lynchpin for American victory.
Imagine a world where cancer could talk. You do your research and find the most successful doctor in treating your cancer. Then the cancer tries to convince you not to go to this doctor. In fact the cancer tells you that going to this doctor will only make things worse. Thats the cancers narrative.
David, I don;t ask that you agree with me. Just give my comments some consideration.
Thanks, MBY