Robert Spencer, the publisher of Jihad Watch, has been a controversial figure in the blogosphere for some time now. Some liberal bloggers love to bash him, considering him racist against Muslims or Arabs.
Of course, almost none of those bloggers actually speak Arabic or know much of the intricacies of Islam and sharia law, all of which Robert does. Nor are they particularly interested in the ideas involved. Sharia may be one of the most misogynistic and homophobic legal systems ever invented, it may be at its essence antithetical to the separation of church and state and to everything we stand for, proselytizing the world while specifically subjugating all other religious groups and individuals who do not convert, but Spencer’s critics don’t seem to care. This isn’t about knowledge or truth. It’s about anger, envy, the need to be “right,” and all the rest of those “attractive” traits that motivate so many of us.
Indeed, what fascinates me about the current controversy surrounding the World Trade Center mosque is how little most of the mosque’s defenders actually seem to know about sharia. It’s amusing to watch their blank stares on television when questioned about the the subject by Sean Hannity, himself not particularly a scholar, as we know.
It reminds me a great deal of the old debate about legalizing the Communist Party back in the fifties. Should the CP be legal when communism calls for the violent overthrow of the U.S. government? Sharia, similarly, calls for a world united under the caliphate, with those of us who do not accept Islam subject to dhimmi law or worse, depending on our status. Essentially, it’s the end of Western civilization. Is this grounds for outlawing sharia? It’s an interesting and complex free speech/civil rights question, but only if you know what sharia is and have some idea what it intends. Most — including, I am almost certain, NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg — do not.
But back to Robert Spencer. Speaking personally, I have always learned from Robert, whom I know slightly, and never found him to be racist or anything close, even though his style and mine are far from the same. To some I may seem confrontational, but compared to Spencer, I’m a shrinking violet. He is one of the ideological point men in the global war on terror. He keeps telling us what a lot of us — including me — don’t always want to hear, reminding us that there are real issues at stake. Is he always right? I don’t know. Is anybody?
But I am hardly surprised to hear he is the subject of a new campaign from CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations. CAIR is evidently tremendously upset that a few weeks ago Spencer gave a lecture on jihadism to the FBI’s Tidewater Joint Terrorism Task Force, a group the brings FBI agents together with local law enforcement officials.
Frankly, I was pleased to hear the FBI was welcoming the likes of Spencer, especially since our Department of Justice (as has been reported at PJM and elsewhere) has gone out of its way to ignore radical Islam as a motivation for terrorism even when it couldn’t be more obviously so. From Ft. Hood to Times Square, it hasn’t been just the thousand pound gorilla in the room, it has been every gorilla in every room from here to Beijing and back.
Roger,
Why do you apologize? I’m afraid that your view that some things are too important to poke fun at is a remnant of your old liberal ideology – those folks on the left have no sense of humor at all. And what better way to put those Islamist troglodytes in their place than to belittle them? To treat them any other way accords them far too much dignity.
Thanks for the update on Robert Spencer and CAIR.
Yours truly,
Neobuzz
@Neobuzz — Good
Troglodytes precede pigs and monkies.
What to make of that?
Robert Spencer has forgotten more about Islam and it’s history then the experts in the State Department know about it.
The word missing from this thread is APPEASEMENT.
Who was that jerk British PM who unctuated:
“Peace in our time”?
He will be ever remembered for that and nothing else.
Substitute the best line from Buraq’s speech,
and there you have it. His chickens will come home to roost.
Is Robert Spencer right all the time? I think of the quotation at the front of Czeslaw Milosz, The Captive Mind, in which he points out that if one is right half the time it’s pretty amazing and good; but that if one is right more often than that, it becomes suspicious, the moreso the more often one is “right.” But what do we say of mathematicians? Are they worse for being right most of the time? And is this to say that Islamic scholarship is as precise as maths? No; but one must be right on the facts, if not the interpretation, to be “right” at all. Spencer is right on the facts, regardless of how one sees his interpretation, which is open to interpretation. But given that he is right on the facts, consistently for years without fail, other than a few minor slips which he publicly acknowledges and corrects upon discovery, (a trait we might welcome in our president,) we might take much if not most of what Spencer says as accurate generally in interpretation. Spencer is not only informed, he is honest. I repeat that: Spencer is honest. One doesn’t find that often in anyone. It is highly valuable. We have an honest man in Spencer. One might– possibly– have some respect for Muslims if they had an honest disagreement with Spencer’s interpretations of Islam; but what I encounter from Muslims is simple lies, and more lies. There’s a clear and historical reason for the inherent dishonesty in Muslims, but such discussion must wait for another day. Till then, look at Spencer’s work and decide for yourself is the man is what I claim he is: Honest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFeSmjxQyvA&feature=related
The shocking revelation is that Mr. Spencer was allowed to speak to the FBI. The Obama administration seems intent on sticking its head in the sand where Islam is concerned. We will loose the war on terror and western civilization itself if we do not recognize the real enemy and the dangers of Sharia.
Which is why I believe the FBI will give in to CAIR’s demands.
Funny, I never thought they were sticking their heads “in the sand”. Not specifically “sand”, anyway. But I’m SURE it’s really dark in there…
The long history of capitulation to barbarism teaches nothing. Even in an age when more information is available at any single individual’s fingertips than at any time in history, many of us still think by playing nice we can apease this Satanic, death worshiping cult called Islam. I don’t care how many “moderate” muslims window dress it with palatable undertones of spirituality (a mealymouthed word) and self sacrifice, it’s pure evil is in evidence every place its tenticles corrupt.
Islam has in the past century worked on a number of occasions with Marxists factions to overthrow moderate govenments. This seems to be the case here. The Marxist Obama administration, the morality hating main stream media, and the decadent Hollywood elite are all willing to court the Islamic radicals to do their dirty work, thinking they can control the beast once it’s done its job.
How such thinking persist demonstrabably showcases the diseased mind of the leftist. Then again they eschew history in favor of utopian daydreams.
Mr Simon.
You might find of interest today’s post at Sultan Knish, ”Is Islam’s Problem a Lack of Modernity?” http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/
I’ve been reading JihadWatch for several years – I learned more about Islam from Mr Spencer than in almost my whole life living in an Arab country.
A friend sent me the link below, just last night. It’s a primer on Islam and the Koran.
The JournoKlan will never allow for a frank discussion about such things. I don’t know if there are any counter arguments to this, because we can’t get our own media to vet an enemy, it is too busy propping them up…sometimes conspiring with them. The Walter Duranty crowd, feeds into the Howard Zinn crowd and begets the Michael Moore/Oliver Stone/Sean Penn crowd.
Spencer obviously goes much deeper than this basic primer. But the primer makes some very key elemental points. Westerners cannot look at the situation with Western eyes. When someone is playing a game by different rules and insists that you play by your more strict rules, it handcuffs you and then starts the game. You are destined to lose.
This is how our own media plays the game against its own countrymen. The Taqiyya Media, known in the West as Journolistas, have perfected the art.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/07/alliance-to-stop-sharia.html
Every local news site in your home town is infected with OIC loving muslims who are trying to steer conversation threads towards CAIR and muslim Brotherhood narratives on any story that relates to Stealth Jihad.
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Crippled+conspiracies/3204235/story.html
“In many Muslim societies, honour is paramount. The collision between Islam and modernity has led to chronic underachievement in the Muslim world, and that, some scholars say, is a profound humiliation. Conspiracy theories help ease the shame, by explaining how Islam, once a glorious empire, came to this sorry state.”
Masjids are America’s “Iron Rug”… Although Bolshevism really isn’t dead, at least the information is flowing relatively freely compared to 20 years ago… The Iron Curtain has been replaced with infiltrating Journolistas… At least we have a choice… The “Iron Rug” is doing it’s best to infiltrate our media with “Nethadis”… http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/mtapson/2010/08/10/cairs-hollywood-crusade/
Just look at the image being presented right now…
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Iran+digging+graves+invasion+force/3381734/story.html
The double speak is telling… Belligerent Victimhood… And the force of the message becomes more blatant every day.
Robert Spencer is the archetype of insight and courage: insight, because he looks deeply, considers carefully, and speaks from knowledge and reason; courage, because he speaks without concern for the possible consequences for him. So naturally, he’s the target of Muslims and their mouthpiece groups, and of “liberals” — they don’t really deserve that word, you know — to whom “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a prime directive.
There are many reasons to recoil from Islam’s plans for the world. Its record is barbarous and blood-soaked. But one observation that might help to explain left-wing sympathy for it has gone undiscussed, as far as I know: It replicates the collectivist mentality of modern left-liberalism in all particulars:
Which is why Greg Gutfeld’s most recent suggestion for a counterstroke — please, please go through with it, Greg! — is such a brilliant idea. The collectivist mindset’s worst enemy is itself.
It will be fascinating, if possibly horrifying, to watch this played out.
Robert Spencer is a National Treasure. His most effective tool is his careful adherence to facts. He knows more about Islamic dogma, law and traditions than the people who are foolish enough to debate him. Their usual tactic is insults and outright fabrication. He scares the hell out of CAIR.
Surely it is getting close to the time when we play Cowboys and Moslems?
Robert Spencer is an American hero that deserves all our thanks. If Americans would read his book, “The Truth about Muhammad: Founder of the World’s Most Intolerant Religion” — link here: http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Muhammad-Intolerant-Religion/dp/1596985283/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top — they’d know more about Islam than all the people currently employed at the State Department.
Or, if one doesn’t have the time for a book, simply read Islam 101 at Spencer’s Jihad Watch web site. Here is a link to it: http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
Islam holds a billion human beings in the most abysmal kind of slavery imaginable, wherein every waking moment of one’s life is dominated by religious authorities determined to dictate one’s every move and thought. It aims to bring us all under its dictates — or kill us if we resist.
If we permit this hideous religion to build a monument to its murderous ideology on the site of its most successful mass-murder of Americans to date — if we permit it to spit on our ideals, such as freedom of speech, while simultaneously exploiting those ideals as a weakness — we are doomed.
It’s your life or Islam — Islam won’t tolerate any sort of co-existence.
Over all, this is a good piece, with one possible exception. Like many (Daniel Pipes, Brigitte Gabriel and others) Mr. Simon appears to make a distinction between so-called “radical Islam” and “moderate Islam.” If there is a radical Islam, there must be a non-radical Islam or a moderate Islam, so goes the argument. Pipes posits, “Radical Islam is the problem and moderate Islam the solution”.
Simon wrote: “Frankly, I was pleased to hear the FBI was welcoming the likes of Spencer, especially since our Department of Justice (as has been reported at PJM and elsewhere) has gone out of its way to ignore radical Islam as a motivation for terrorism even when it couldn’t be more obviously so…..”
Why not take committed Muslims at their word?
As reported on Spencer’s own JW website Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan: The Term ‘Moderate Islam’ Is Ugly And Offensive; There Is No Moderate Islam; Islam Is Islam.”
Speaking at Kanal D TV’s Arena program, PM Erdogan commented on the term “moderate Islam”, often used in the West to describe AKP and said, ‘These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”
Excellent points.
Moderate Muslims are such in spite of the Koran and Hadith.
I have not heard of Robert Spencer before, but you guys sound about ready to canonize this fellow, Saint Robert de Spencer.
On the other hand, if he is on the C.A.I.R. latest list of mini-satans then that is also a good report.
Therefore, by the rights endowed in me by the Creator, I hereby declare I will have to read more of Robert Spencer’s data. Good.
Mr. Spencer’s name is familiar to most people who study the Arabs and Islam. He’s written several books on the subject, most notably “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)”. While interpretations of any religions scripture are always a difficult thing, Mr. Spencer documents his work pretty well and sites a large number of sources.
Robert Spencer is da Man! — when it comes to understanding Islam, Jihad, Sharia and all the other crap that comes with Muhammad’s religion. He is a light shining in the dark; a voice crying out in dhimmiland. Let’s hope there will be many more like him to step up to the plate to expose the evils of Islam.
The Muslim of Dar al-Islam is forever trapped in the victim mindset. As the center/capital of the world has shifted steadily further from the Abbasid Bagdad of the ninth and tenth century to Vienna, then Denmark followed by Britain and finally New York (and even now as it shifts towards the Pacific, Muslims woke up and have found the world has surpassed and left them behind.
Completely incapable of reconciling their Medieval practices through the lack and complete absence of an enlightenment, or rather their own xenophobic response to such suggestion, those in Islam will continue to only respond to the like minded practices of barbarity they practice. Cult sanctioned bullying requires a bigger bully before a lesson can learned.
CAIR’s reactionary and repetitive resolve to bully is ingrained in a culture which refuses to civilize and seeks only to reverse the west’s progress as punishment for leaving Islam behind.
Forever the victim will the zombies of Islam be. Robert’s existence is a strong reminder that we’re tired of Islam’s incapability to pull up its own socks and join the rest of humanity.
Oh right. Kameez and sandles. No socks. Any old tired excuse not to change.
Good and whimsical post. I’d guess you’re an Albertan or from somewhere out West.
Islam has been offered several chances to embrace modernity; Kipling has the best description of the process:
“Certainly also is Kitchener mad. But one sure thing I know —
If he who broke you be minded to teach you, to his Madrissa go!
Go, and carry your shoes in your hand and bow your head on your breast,
For he who did not slay you in sport, he will not teach you in jest. “
Everyone needs Spencer’s Jihad Watch in their favorites. You’ll learn more from him in couple of visits than a lifetime of watching and reading the Dhimmi News. When you’re receiving direct flak, it means you’re right on the target. Keep up the good work Mr. Spencer!
A debate between the estimable Robert Spencer and the infamous Cair is to be welcomed. Bring it on Mohammedans. You are out of your league.
good place for jesse! he’s gonna get his own mosque for his services, he shares a belief system with the muslims, and he speaks their language . . . . he sure doesn’t speak english!
CAIR wishes to have Spencer banished from access to all official channels while Obama and his team of uber-submitters are still in positions of authority. . . . Got to admit, for the likes of CAIR, it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity.
This was received recently by an Iraqi working as an interpreter for the Transistion and Stabilization team (US Military). As long as the left thinks this is an aberrancy and since it is out there in the uncivilized world (where we were wrong to go anyway), they can sleep unbothered at night. This couldn’t happen here, right?
The religion of peace & compassion
Final Warning
In the name of God the Merciful Compassionate
Fight them, they shall suffer at your hands, they will be defeated and you shall be victorious. The believer’s chests wil be filled with thankful victories by Allah against those non-believers and disavows. Prayers and peace be with the Mujahedeen’s Imam, the leader of the messenger of the sword to be merciful unto all those who follow their path and heed their call for judgment day, therefore: To the traitor and religion denouncer [Interpreter's Name] who resided in the sacred Al Muwasalat land, which he has dishonored by his treason and renunciation of his righteous religion after having immersed yourself in the midst of the Zionist Jews and the Crusaders.
We have information that you work for the American Crusader Army, enemy of Islam and Moslems and after we conducted an investigation, we have discovered that you have betrayed your religion and your people by working for them. Our decision is as follows: you shall be killed for what you have done. You will be shot in the name of Allah we will make an example of you where you shall follow into Hell traitors and disavows before you. You shall end up as headless dog food. We say you are of the dead.
(We did not afflict them, as they afflicted themselves)
Do not attempt to move or hide, for you are now under the observation of the Mujahadeen and you will not benefit from those whom you gave up your religion, for this is what you have brought upon yourself.
Military Committee
20th Revolutionary Brigade
[Month] 1431
As far as I know, this person did not “give up his religion [Islam]” but something like this might make someone an atheist, or worse.
most Americans are ignorant of the facts and don’t know the truth providing for a jaded outlook
Has the ‘Rev.’ Jesse Jackson ever been invited to speak to the FBI? The DOJ?
What? Are they RAAAAACIST?
If there is ever an attack by Al Qaeda on U.S. soil again, Obama will be honored to kiss the feet of the mullah sent to accept our surrender.
I can hear him now, saying “Heh, heh; I was a muslim all along, guys!”.
Indeed, what fascinates me about the current controversy surrounding the World Trade Center mosque is how little most of the mosque’s defenders actually seem to know about sharia.
Amazing, isn’t it ? It seems the extent of most all of “progressive” take on the GZ mosque is limited to something like vapid spewing about religious freedom and how anybody opposed to the mosque is opposed to religious freedom.
In other words, so inane and knee jerk a take that they hardly seem worth arguing with. Other than choosing a “reaction” among their stock set, they don’t appear to be at all interested in the deeper story of what is going on with this proposed mosque/Islamic center.
A huge swath of Americans today is ineducable, by choice and, apparently, by biology.
Video here of a Canadian Muslim, making more sense than all of America’s progressives tied up together.
Raheel Raza: A slap in the face of all Americans
A brief history of the Victory Mosque in Islam
For a bunch of people that have campaigned so hard against the slavery and mistreatment by American predecessors, why are they in such a hurry to adopt a ‘religion’ that will enslave them again? Do they think that EEO legislation will protect them? Do they think they will be superior to Sharia? Exempt?
The race industry is clamoring for superiority, and won’t know what to do with it when they get it.
They sure are in a rush to have history repeat itself; Actually, it’s more like a cycle of stupidity.
I watched the West cringe at having to face up to their principles with respect to the Danish cartoon issue – and they failed.
I watched the West turn away from Geert Wilders in his fight for freedom of speech and opinion as the West failed him, too.
Now the terrorist sponsors want to put up a monument to their instigated bloodshed in NY – and if left to the “ruling class”, the West will fail again as the “ruling class” have a strong interest, I believe, is setting rival religions and cultures against each other. It is my further belief that the MIB (Military Industrial Banking Complex) funds and instigates Middle East conflicts as the results are extraordinarily profitable for them. Yasser Arafat didn’t accumulate billions in Switzerland by saving his shekels, you know.
So, now the “ruling class” want to shove our face in a mosque not far from where almost 3,000 people were killed by people associated with the very groups sponsoring the mosque. It is just plain rude and perhaps the Mayor of New York should understand what rude is by such acknowledgement at public gatherings from this point forward.
All of your comments fall in the ‘sad but true’ category. There was even an ex-Shin Bet head, obviously a success in Israel’s establishment, who fronted for one of Arafat’s Swiss or Austrian accounts after his career was over. Can’t recall his name; he has passed away of cancer.
There is no doubt in my mind that American ME policy has in fact catered to the ‘need’ to arm both sides of the Arab-Israel conflict. Now more F15s to Saudi Arabia, supposedly deprived of long-range capabilities. Those will no doubt come later. And it is not as if policymakers in the West truly believe that peace will break out if ‘land for peace’ works. It is convenient cover for appeasement of Arabs and for profit. The greatest error of many of Israel’s strategic thinkers (most ‘so called’) is to so willingly succumb to the West’s phony overtures.
“…the intricacies of Islam and sharia law…”
Before wasting a great deal of time delving into the predatory and inhumane intricacies of Islam and sharia law, let’s all understand what it attempts to displace.
The laws under which we Americans live our daily are based on British Common Law. British Common Law is based on Biblical Law. Divine Law given unto us by the hand of Moses. Holy Law which Jesus lived by and preached all his days on earth. Holy Law in which modern Western civilization is rooted.
The essential lie we hear from the administration and the State Department and from CAIR is that Jihad is a peaceful enterprise perverted by fringe extremists. Islam is a religion of peace just like Judaism and Christianity.
Not so. If Islam is a peaceful religion, National Socialism and Shintoism were peaceful political systems.
As for Jesse Jackson supporting CAIR, that is just a matter of elementary physics. Grease has a natural affinity for grease.
We can write page after page about why Western elites won’t act to protect our culture and civilization, without ever coming close to the basic reason: Each and every person in a position of power is afraid of a personal Islamic explosion or bullet in the head if he or she opposes their will. It is very hard to protect yourself against a crowd of people each of whom is willing to die in order to kill you. Basically our elites do not really think the society they lead is able to protect them, and they are not willing to put themselves at risk for the privilege of leading us. Until this elemental fact changes, there is no real point to discussing anything else.
Each and every person in a position of power is afraid of a personal Islamic explosion or bullet in the head if he or she opposes their will.
That has been said about Mayor Bloomberg. I don’t know much about the man personally, but it sure looks like he’s the type who might allow his entire city to be compromised in the name of his personal cowardice. (Bloomberg said something to the effect that NYC firefighters etc. went into burning bldgs. on 911 in the name of “religious freedom”…gag)
In planning & executing jihad, hard and soft, Islamists are interested in maximum terror, physical and psychological.
The soft underbelly of the infidel gives them great pleasure.
CAIR works tirelessly to exploit that soft underbelly, here pretending outrage that Robert Spencer spoke to the FBI.
PLEASE STOP PUTTING SEAN HANNITY DOWN. You sound just
like the mean spirted elistist liberals. Sean is in the
trenches everyday fighting for this great country
thank you
Yes, but he’s not (and doesn’t pretend to be) a scholar.
Roger writes: Should the CP be legal when communism calls for the violent overthrow of the U.S. government? Sharia, similarly, calls for a world united under the caliphate, with those of us who do not accept Islam subject to dhimmi law or worse, depending on our status. Essentially, it’s the end of Western civilization. Is this grounds for outlawing sharia?
I say: Actually, if the Infidel is not subdued by the Dhimmi tax, and he refuses to convert, then he is to be killed.
In other words, Sharia, like the Communist Party, calls for the violent overthrow of the entire world.
I used to believe the GW bush narrative that Islam means peace and has been hijacked by a bunch of radicals. Then I found Jihad Watch and my eyes were opened.
Robert is the authority that authorities go to when they have a question.
“If your enemy is short-tempered; irritate him!” Sun Tzu.
“…only if you know what sharia is and have some idea what it intends. Most — including, I am almost certain, NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg — do not…”
Public memory is so short. Isn’t Mike Bloomberg the guy who assured the public that the that the Times Square bomber was a teabagger?
Mikey Moneybags is as dense and clueless as Barak Obama. Difference is, New York’s economy is stronger than the nation’s and Bloomberg doesn’t have to deal with foriegn policy.
Except now and then as in the case of the mosque at ground zero when foriegn affairs intrude and demonstrate that Mikey’s long term ambitions notwithstanding, he isn’t qualified to be Commander in Chief.
Robert Spencer is smart. Robert Spencer has experience. Robert Spencer can’t think of a single POLICY that would confront Islam on OUR terms. NO TAX dollars to ANY regime that does not love our 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment, and Article I, section 2 of the Constitution. These alone will keep us from trying to buy love from Norks like Clinton or $Billion to Hamas for Gaza, or…even…Afganistan. Why are we funding our enemies? No blood for Islamic Constitutions!!!
People who don’t know much about Robert Spencer should do themselves a big favor and reserve judgment until they read extensively what he’s written, watch the many video clips readily available and educate themselves about the nature of Islam, it’s ambitious goals of world conquest and how they are actively and aggressively going about it. Start here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/; but before you start this learning process you have to drop the notion that has been inculcated in the western mindset; i.e., here in America and throughout Europe, “Islam is a religion of peace.”
This is the universal mantra that immediately springs from the mouths of most who equate Islam with all other major religions, peaceful, tolerant, benevolent, etc. It is part of our culture, who we are, what we’ve been taught and what we know is right. Islamists rely on it, consider it an Achilles heel and use it to cloak their true intentions.
How can any religion rely on blatant lies and obfuscation in their proselytizations and convince their most ardent followers that committing suicide in spreading the word of Allah as written by the prophet Mohammad in the holy book, the Qur’an, is the most noble of causes and will result in an immediate assent into paradise? We can’t wrap our arms around it. A religion that sanctions lying and suicide? How can it possibly be? It is so outrageously egregious that it has to be a vicious, scandalous attempt by some extreme right wing bigots to destroy maybe the most benign, peaceful religion ever to appear on the planet. That fits the anti-right intelligentsia extremely well………if it were only true but let’s not confuse the issue with any inconvenient facts.
Persistence in this effort will lead to the writings and speeches of many others, some equally knowledgeable based on scholarship, some Apostates based on life experiences, and a conspicuously few Muslims who have adopted a more moderate if not official version of Islam. Stay with it long enough and you’ll come away with what Roger Simon is referring to in this article.
More and more people are beginning to understand the depth and severity of a threat that has gone under the radar for decades. Mayor Bloomberg’s benign view is the rule not the exception. As Mr. Simon points out, it’s amazing “how little most of the mosque’s defenders actually seem to know about Sharia. It’s amusing to watch their blank stares on television when questioned about the the (sic) subject….” And therein lies the problem…….an enemy cannot be defeated until it reveals itself and its intentions which the Islamic fundamentalists have been assiduously working to avoid………..until the time is right.
Of course CAIR would target Spencer, and Daniel Pipes, and Steve Emerson (and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Wafa Sultan, among other apostates). And CAIR would get the State Department’s blessing. Didn’t the Department just send Imam Rauf, a taxpayer expense, on a “fundraiser” trip to Saudi Arabia and parts Islam to beg for money to put up the Ground Zero mosque? But, liberals and their like should be tied to chairs and made to watch this easy-to-understand video, probably Dutch in origin, about Islam and the peril it poses to the ignorant and not-ignorant alike. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded I’m betting that unwelcome enemy of Islam, Geert Wilders, was behind it. More power to him.
I respect Robert Spencer, but he’d be wise to disassociate from Pam Geller. She’s not that bright, and spouts incorrect information in attempts to incite people. I also wish Fox would stop featuring her.
Geller harms Spencer’s work; she doesn’t further it.
Prove what you say.
Quote directly from a link to Pamela Geller’s blog and prove that she isn’t truthful.
And about the “bright”…you post doesn’t sound bright at all, you sound like any brainwashed idiotic muslim fanatic.
Troll.
Thank you, Sherab Z.! I was thinking the exact same thing.
My B.S.-meter went off the charts.
I am quite certain that Pamela knows this about Islam. Islam does not mean ‘Peace ‘ it means ‘Submission’ ‘Allahu Akbar” does not mean ‘God is great’. Sorry to disabuse you Simon and other MISUNDERSTANDERS it means “MY God is the GREATEST’ which is a whole new can of worms you must agree. Because if YOUR God is the Greatest then that logically means that there are other LESSER Gods thus revealing Islams POLYTHEISTIC roots and of course to proclaim your God Greatest implies a competitive, triumphalist mindset too.
No wonder Muslims are so glad that Politically Correct Western PC moonbats and even some so called Conservatives continue to misunderstand them even when what they say is so blatantly obvious.
Here’s a link to a very dishonest post that she put up over at her site – regardless of the fact that she didn’t write it, she posted it, and without comment the first time:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/how-could-stanl.html
Further, her flirtations with birther pap reveal her to be a not serious person.
Look, I get it. PJMedia is becoming a groupthink bunch of mouthbreathers. I’ve been reading and commenting here since the beginning, but frankly I’m starting to get a LGF vibe from this crowd.
Calling me a troll because I don’t happen to like Pam Geller is over the top. I used to expect better from the commenters at PJMedia. That tent is getting mighty small.
Good grief man! Could you please stay on topic and refrain from trolling. BTW the usurper President, your obvious idol is dismantling America and questions need be answered…
Islam has been trying hard to hide its tail between its hind legs. But somehow it still sticks out. Only those who are blind or sick in the head fail to see it.
And the attacks against Spencer come after the recent death threats (on twitter or Facebook…) against Pamela Geller.
The muslim supremacist have not understood that this is not Europe and that for one Freedom Fighter whom they see there are another ten millions who are ready to engage the fight to defend Freedom.
Contrarily to what the MSM have reported (i.e….nothing…), the rallies against the mosque at Ground Zero have been massive.
The organizations that fight islamic totalitarianism count now hundreds of thousands of members.
The information about shari’a law is now getting to the common American Citizen.
The islamic supremacists can’t win with violence and they can’t win with tricks.
Well, they can always decide to convert to a Religion, instead of following the ideologies of male power and of totalitarianism of islam.
Roger – I am sorry but you are wrong.
I am retired FBI, and our first responsibility is to swear an oath to preserve and protect the Constitution. There is nothing “liberal” or “conservative” about that – it is an “American” responsibility. You believe CAIR is the challenge for Robert Spencer because they are making the most public noise. That is not correct, nor is the challenge to Mr. Spencer’s views “liberals,” as you also allege.
Unfortunately for him, when Mr. Spencer chose to become a leader of the anti-mosque Stop Islamization of America political group, he no longer was “just” a scholar on Islam or Jihad. When he joined the SIOA political group and started leading public protests against houses of worship, he no longer was a “scholar,” but became a political activist against houses of worship. You may think this is just a problem for CAIR, or for “liberals.” I have news for you, this is going to be a problem for ANY government or public funded agency that invites him to lecture.
Before he joined the SIOA, there were those who tried to warn him about this. He decided to blow them off. That’s his choice in our free nation. But for those of you who expect the FBI to start inviting consultants to speak, who are political activists that reject our Constitutional rights of freedom of religion, you are kidding yourselves.
If you want to know Robert Spencer’s greatest enemy today, it is not CAIR or the “liberals.” It is Robert Spencer. His problems are the result of his choices, his decisions.
It is no different than the FBI inviting a “scholar” on race relations, who decided to become a political activist to deny rights to some racial group. You may be a “controversial scholar,” but once you move into political activism to openly deny Constitutional rights to another identity group, you have closed the door on discussions with the federal government.
This is, by the way, the same Constitutional argument that the anti-jihad community has sought to make (with inconsistent results) for years against the Muslim Brotherhood. (But even the Muslim Brotherhood had the brains not to openly seek to defy houses of worship in the USA.) Now that same argument about not accepting those who seek to undermine the Constitution is going to made against SIOA and Spencer. For the record, people did warn them that this was going to happen. They just didn’t care.
The larger challenge is still in flux to SIOA’s leaders. The nationwide anti-mosque protests are going to result in other coalitions to defy SIOA and their leaders, including past anti-jihad leaders. You think CAIR and “liberals” are the problem?? Think again. They will be small potatoes to the stewing and growing coalition that is outraged and disgusted by the protests and attacks on houses of worship across America.
Americans really do believe in their Constitution and in American’s rights.
Your statements are ALL based on the assertion that the fight about the mosque AT GROUND ZERO has to do with “freedom of religion”.
This is in fact the position of the muslim totalitarians.
The fight against the mosque at ground Zero has only to do with stopping the islamists from celebrating the attacks of September Eleven: Spencer has abundantly proven that the construction of mosques on the locations where important battles had been won by islam is in fact a typical islamic tradition.
That mosque has nothing to do with religion, nor Spencer has ever dreamed to tell the muslims NOT to build a mosque anywhere: but that mosque at Ground Zero would have ONLY a political and military significance and would be celebrated by the muslim supremacists worldwide as a monument to their alleged “martirs”.
Your ignorance of all that shows that you haven’t ever read a word written by Spencer, that your words are lies, and propaganda.
You are a tool of the islamists.
I am annoyed by all the fake “naive” people, and true trolls, who post islamic supremacist comments here and elsewhere.
Have the damned courage of your opinions, say the truth, say that you want to submit (islam) the whole world,
and cut it short.
We will not submit anyway.
And islam will not succeed, with the help of all the marxist subversives of the world, with the help of all the secret societies of the world, with the help of all the money of the world.
Dancing on the grave of Americans in a SPECTACULARLY disgraceful display is NOT “religious freedom” by any stretch of the imagination. Islamofascists are HUGE into symbolism and anyone with two brain-cells to rub together can figure out exactly WHAT this kind of SYMBOLISM implies.
Sorry. YOU may have at time of service protected and defended the constitution but I see very few in government doing so now. AND it’s beginning to move into state and local governments as well.
Good piece Mr. Spencer.
Jeff,
What you – and the FBI – had better realize is that this is more than just “Religious Freedom”, it is an invasion. There are over a dozen mosques in New York alone, and even the Muslims admit that the “Ground Zero” Cordoba Mosque is being put where it is more as a political statement than as a place of worship.
If all the Muslims did was to worship there, there would be no problem. However the imams also tend to preach radical jihad (and Imam Rauf certainly has):
“On Monday, authorities in Hamburg, Germany announced that they had finally shut down the Taiba mosque, which as the Al-Quds mosque in 2001 was a meeting place for several of the 9/11 jihad terrorists, including Mohamed Atta, and which continued to be a hotbed of jihad activity thereafter”
Closed for Business
Claudia Rosett
Stephen Schwartz
Jan LaRue
Part of the problem is that Americans forgot, or refuse to acknowledge, that Islam is more then merely a religion (as we in the West traditionally understand it) – it is a way of life, a code that encompasses morals, daily practices, and political life. Shariah law is not merely a different codification of the Ten Commandments, it is a replacement for the English Common Law upon which our society is based.
We are brought up on the “Separation of Church and State” and have implemented it to the point where if a Christian pastor dares to endorse a specific candidate in a sermon, the church can lose their tax-exempt status. However, no Muslim will ever accept this. To a fundamentalist Imam, preaching on morality or preaching on the necessity to overthrow the U.S. Government and implement a Caliphate are indistinguishable.
I don’t know how we handle this, but if we do not than the results will be catastrophic. Just look at London or The Netherlands for a glimpse of the future.
http://article.nationalreview.com/439017/director-mueller-say-no-to-cair/andrew-c-mccarthy
Jeff, I certainly appreciate your devotion to the Constitution, but I would be interested to understand your take on Andrew McCarthy’s article from the National Review Online, outlined above.
When people hide behind the skirts of women and children and lob bombs…then protest at the return volleys that “innocents” are being “slaughtered”, I find the crocodile tears to be a tad disingenuous.
Similarly, when an Imam who speaks with a forked tongue says one thing to fan the flames of hatred and to plant a victory stake in the ground over the ashes of our deceased countrymen, I find the weeping and gnashing of teeth at the “attack on religion” to be equally farcical.
The “bridge” to “understanding” might start with not desecrating the graves of the innocent victims by those who mean to ululate and pass out candy again at their death site.
A dear friend of mine is a former Director, I have nothing but admiration for those who serve in the Bureau, but you have the narrative completely wrong, in my humble opinion. The Constitution needs defending, but is rendered as meaningless pulp if we don’t defend the country that it was constructed to serve.
Purely and simply, a mosque can be built anywhere…there is no offense in honoring our fallen countrymen with a safety zone of a couple of blocks. Those that wish to make peace with us, can build all the mosques they want…without trampling on the memories of the victims of 9/11. There is no other significance to this site and the Imam is a provocateur. Pick a side. The Constitution won’t crumble if they build a couple miles away or more. And the bridge they “seek” will be made of stronger stuff, covering that greater distance.
when a person sees unreconstructed, unrepentant, unalloyed and undiluted evil, a person is conscience-bound to speak and act against it. Doing and saying nothing is equivalent to helping evil prosper. How many times did we hear Blair justify his Iraq war involvement by saying he didn’t want to face young people in the decades to come, suffering from the ascendancy of a Saddam or the spread of WMD, who say to him “you knew, and you did nothing”?
Knowing and doing nothing are worse than not knowing. Spencer knows and DOES something. I have lots of words with four letters in them for people who know, and not only DO nothing but PRETEND things are different from what they are. Walking past a wreck is bad enough, but we have people in this country walking past the wreck of militant expansionist Islam shouting to all the other pedestrians “nobody getting hurt here, nothing to see, move along, that’s what I”m doing, just move along or else you’re a cultural imperialist!”
FROM TODAY’S POST BY SPENCER AT http://www.jihadwatch.org and on Human Events:
<<<
Yet in reality, this is not really a freedom of religion issue at all. No one is advocating that Muslims should not be allowed to build mosques in the U.S., although I maintain that those mosques should be carefully scrutinized by law enforcement for jihad activity–and Muslims who are genuinely peaceful, eschew sharia, and are loyal American citizens should have no problem with that. The question here is one of the appropriateness of the location.
Does the freedom of religion really allow any group to build anything anywhere? As a recent parody had it, would the KKK be allowed to build a “shrine of reconciliation” on the site of the black Baptist church bombed by racists in the early Sixties? Would Michael Bloomberg really have no problem with that? Would he stand up as stoutly for the KKK’s religious freedom as he has for Ground Zero mosque Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and his gang of Islamic supremacist deceivers?…
>>>>
Get that, trolls.
Exactly right.
Can you imagine even having this discussion about building a mosque near ground-zero only weeks afterwards? Has time erased any of those horrible events?
People need to pull their short-term memories out of their butts.
The KKK is not a religion. Although, some within the KKK called themselves Christian. Anyone murdering is not a Christian.
I understand your arguement, and agree Islam should never be allowed anywhere close to ground zero.
and it never hurts to go the full way in reminder–
the KKK justified its dislike of Jews as “Christ killers”, as if anything about their own hateful outlook was Christian… really, they just needed a reason to hate Jews, and the bible gave one, at least for those who never got the point.
Oh yeah, and the KKK was a DEMOCRAT PARTY organization, founded right after the emancipation proclamation in order to put black folks BACK on the plantation… and its roots in the Democrat party lasted right up until.. well, NOW.. it’s never had any official business with Republicans, hated them in fact because they did so much for blacks in the civil rights years… and when the CRA was finally passed, they stopped voting Democrat and instead voted for– GEORGE WALLACE, who became the American Independent party candidate in ’68 .. no “republican migration” for him, or for any of them.. Byrd was already well established in the Senate as a Democrat, having voted against Civil Rights and Voting Rights.. never made even a faint attempt at “apologizing” until at least the 1980s..
the KKK is a DEMOCRAT organization. Anyone who wants to link them to Republicans, 40 yrs ago or now, is simply misinformed.
/end reminder
After reading more of your posts, now I see that you call anyone a troll if you don’t agree with them. Now I get it.
You might want to try a different tact if what you’re trying to do is convince people of your arguments. Calling people names isn’t very effective.
Hope this helps.
Islam is a malignant philosophy of repression masquerading as a religion. You either get it, or you don’t. Islam as areligion is as valid as a White or Black supremacist movement calling themselves a church. No sale.
Mr. Roger L. Simon, I though you’d appreciate this:
Welcome the Ground Zero Mosque’s new neighbor
I concur with “MarkD” above. Islam is not a religion but a political movement. That is why the name “Islam” means submission — submission to their political goals camouflaged as religion.
This was their goal a thousand years ago (they were stopped at the gates of Vienna in the early 1600s) and it remains their goal today — the Islamization of the West through Sharia and other perverted means.
Not only should Sharia be banned throughout western society, in the U.S. CAIR should be banned. CAIR is an Islamist-fascist front group, funded by Islamist terrorists, whose goal is to make radical Islam and Sharia appear compatible. As their goal is the overthrow of our society, it should be banned as an organization. As Lincoln said, “the Constitution is not a suicide pact.”
What the Ground-zero mosque is all about is a probe — the Islamists are probing our society to see the extent of what they can achieve. If successful, they will probe further, become more aggressive.
The argument should be reversed. Suppose that some western radicals had flown a 747 into a Mecca holy site, and then 9 years later a western group proposes that a cathedral be built near that ground-zero. How do you think Muslims would respond?
Of course, this begs the question of whether Muslim countries currently allow any Christian churches in their societies. The answer is no in almost all cases. Hence, our position should be that we will allow no more mosques in western countries until Muslim countries allow churches in their countries. A moratorium on mosques should be imposed throughout western society. The Germans have closed down the infamous mosque where many of the 9-11 perps planned the attack. And this is the point. Jihad and war against the west is a prime occurrence in these “houses of worship.” We have no obligation to allow our enemy the forum from which it would destroy us — in fact it would be suicide to do so.
The idiot brain-dead left doesn’t get it because it does not believe in America, and in fact wants to bring traditional America down for its own subjective and perverted purposes. Why else would several left-wing Jewish politicians in New York sympathize with the Islamist-fascist forces seeking to put up a military installation, masquerading as a Mosque-House of Worship, at Ground Zero behind their enemy’s lines?
“how little most of the mosque’s defenders actually seem to know about sharia.”
Very kind of you to give them the benefit of the doubt. Personally, I think that’s just an act and they know exactly what they’re doing.
All you have to do is look at the picture of that beautiful young women, that had her nose and ears cut off under sharia law or how the taliban shot women in a sports arena or the stoning of women just because their husband or male relatives accused them of wrong doing. That is sharia law, look at it in its eyes and all you see is evil. Ask yourself how could a GOD loving man kill his wife, daughter or mother over anything!
Well, obviously he is doing something right if they are gunning for him.
The Muslims are sleaze.
But they will get it back in their ugly faces full force when they build their Jihad Victory Mosque near Ground Zero.
1- Plans under way for a Gay Muslim bar to open nearby.
2- Mohammad Novelty Shoppe to open within eye’s view of the House of Hate. It will provide all sorts of wonderful representations of Mohammad’s mug ( toilet paper, prayer rugs, hemorrhoid creme suppositories, etc. etc.). All forbidden by Islam and all Made in China with generous discounts for the mosque community.
http://jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/new-jihad-victory-mosque-near-gay-muslim-bar/
WTF?
Allah Akbar! Allah the moon god is greatest! Greater than all the other 359 false gods at the Kabba. Mohammad said so. Not GREAT!
CAIR is an enemy of these United States, and as such should be destroyed, and thrown out of the country.
Islam is not compatible with the Constitution of the United States.
Specifically, a Muslim is not free to leave Islam. Islamic law or sharia forbids apostasy, that is, a declaration that one no longer believes. Citizens of the United States are recognized to have certain fundamental freedoms which Islam does not recognize.
The Koran does say that there is no compulsion in religion. But in practice, for Muslims, this is not true. Punishment for apostasy varies in all Muslim countries, from death to banishment, but there are always consequences.
I would like to see this issue brought to the Supreme Court. A decision declaring this specific Islamic law as fundamentally opposed to the freedoms afforded all American citizens would advance the reformation of Islam.
The question this raises for me is: who inside the FBI is reporting back to CAIR on who is giving them briefings? And why?
Here’s the hard, brutal truth about Islam:
Read here to get a sense of the Islamic mindset and what its ascendancy might mean for the rest of us:
The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims (Andrew Bostom)
Read here to get a sense ofwhy the West’s days may be numbered. We are our own worst enemy unless we face up to the hard choices ncessary to remaining free and prosperous.
The Suicide of Reason: Radical Islam’s Threat to the West (Lee Harris)
Islam is a serial murderer of entire cultures and peoples. This is what Islam has done throughout its entire history. It enslaves, diminishes and impoverishes those whom it does not murder. It has laid waste countrysides that we re once verdant and productive. For its psychopathic regard and brutal treatment of women alone, it is an abomination. Islam cannot be “reformed” – if that were so, it would cease to be Islam.
Islam IS the enemy. Islam must be destroyed, root and branch. With everything that implies.
Roger do you agree with the Ward Dorrity that,”Islam is a serial murderer of entire cultures and peoples.”
It seems that many here believe, “Islam IS the enemy. Islam must be destroyed, root and branch. With everything that implies.”
My question is how do we do that with a group of people more than a billion strong? Ward you have described the problem now we all are waiting with bated breath for your final solution to the Islam problem.
Let me pose a moral dilemma for you, since you don’t seem to have arrived at your own conclusion:
An individual with a proven history of murder, atrocity and the enslavement of others makes it plain that you’re next. He’s not only on your doorstep, he’s in your house with your family. What then?
I know the answer to that question – and to your earlier one. Let’s hear yours. Don’t be coy.
Now Ward I asked first, so I’ll answer your question after you answer mine. What is your final solution to the Islam problem? Maybe you can convince me to join you in your jihad?
Games, eh? Well, here are few more facts for you:
When Muslims assert that Islam is a “religion of peace” they are not engaging in al taqqiya, they are making an assertion in good faith.
The problem lies in the fact that Islam has a defective concept of peace. In semitic languages like Arabic, the consonants are the “root” of the word: islam = submission, and salam = peace have the same root, slm.
The only concept of peace in Islamic jurisprudence is the peace between the conqueror and the conquered, between master and slave. There is no concept of a negotiated peace between nations in Islamic law (and note that law is the defining property of Islam—their clerics are jurists, schools of Qu’ranic interpretation are called fiqh, a legalistic term)—Muslims may negotiate a “hudna” or armistice of limited duration with non-Muslim, but not a definitive enduring peace.
It is a historical fact that Islam is a serial murderer of entire cultures and peoples. This is beyond dispute, although it appears to be news to you. Islam is an abomination and worthy only of extinction. As history has shown, there is only one way to defeat Islam: brute force. As one Victorian era British noted, “The Arab is either at your throat or at your feet.” So be it.
Accordingly: deport – by any means necessary – each and every muslim in the US. Outlaw the practice under penalty of deportation or death. Burn their mosques and their ‘cultural centers’. Reduce Riyadh, Teheran and Damascus to radioactive glass – no negoatiation, no nothing. Make it clear that if you threaten our civilization, yours is forfeit. Rinse and repeat as necessary. The alrternative is the suicide of the West.
“final solution”? Cute.
NOT.
Eden, how do you open the eyes of those who refuse to SEE? Islam keeps people blind by not allowing them to study and learn of the flaws of their own ‘religion’.
If I left Christianity today, I would not be marked for death.
Thank you Ward for your forthright answer and I fear many Americans don’t agree with your plan to deport all Muslims. I understand your fear and even agree with the idea that sharia law is evil, I also would fight the imposition of sharia or old testament law in our country with equal violence.
As for your hypothetical, “An individual with a proven history of murder, atrocity and the enslavement of others makes it plain that you’re next. He’s not only on your doorstep, he’s in your house with your family. What then?”
When you say individual in my home then I have the right to demand he leave and if he threatened me and my family then I would report it to the police. If I killed him I might be in legal trouble myself, now I know you were using this as an allegory for Muslims in our country and I’m afraid it doesn’t work because most Americans would be for kicking out all sorts of folks they didn’t agree with. How ’bout you, kick out the Muslims but not Black Muslims, Nazis, KKK, socialists, commies etc…
That’s a pity that you throw in the ‘Old Testament’ law thing. Is that what you Christian folks think Torah law is? This is my conclusion. That’s weak, and makes me think of all the ‘heathens’ murdered in history by Christians, including the Jews in Europe and in the Land of Israel during the Crusades. If Christians wish to ‘violently’ fight against Islamic expansion – that is, to join the Israeli Jews who are doing so – great. But to claim that this patina of Jesus-derived pacifism covers you while you all announce death to Muslims is more than a little hypocritical.
Larry in the Silicon,
The pure EVIL done and perpetrated by people in the name of “Christianity” is cruel and horrible to the core. The difference is, I can LEAVE my ‘religion’.
I’m a bi-sexual. Did God make me that way or am I a ‘SINNER’?
Under Sharia, I get my head cut off for kissing another woman in a sexual way.
Under Christ, I am LOVED and NO crime needs forgiveness because LOVED should never be a crime.
I like to wear figure flattering clothes because I still have a hot, rockin’ body.
Under Sharia, I am a whore no matter my rapist, no matter my pedophile male encounters, no matter my own father trying to touch me in an unholy way. I am to be STONED for simply having a vagina and ‘defiling’ my family’s ‘honor’.
Under Christ, I am a woman, mother, friend, sister.
Get your facts straight.
I cry thinking how sadly naive you are.
I will pray for you.
“I understand your fear…”
You understand nothing. What you blandly characterize as fear is simply prudence in the face of a religious/political entity that seeks nothing less than the destruction of the West – the conversion/enslavement or death of us all. We have been given numerous examples, have we not? Christianity at least reformed itself. The Inquiisition ended long ago, and we no longer burn heretics at the stake. Islam never has reformed, nor can it. For if it were to ‘reform’ to the Western standards of human liberty and decency, it would no longer be Islam.
I also call into question willingness to fight, to whit:
“When you say individual in my home then I have the right to demand he leave and if he threatened me and my family then I would report it to the police.”
I’m hard pressed to decide whether to laugh or to cry over that one. That is, to laugh at your utter and complete naivete and foolishness or to cry for the family you’ve effectively abandoned to slaughter and strocity. Nice job. The proper response to a threat of immediate harm is to deliver immediate and overwhelming force to stop it. In plainer terms, you kill the bastard(s). You evidently have neither concept nor the experience in defending yourself and others. Those of us who do, and those of us who value our lives and the lives of our families know better. the cold hard fact is that you would most likely not live long enough to utter the first two or three words of your stirring manifesto, much less live long enough to call the police. “Legal trouble” (unlikely in the case of self-defense) would be infinitely preferable to you AND your family being dead, don’t you think? And it’s hardly hypothetical, as police blotters around the country will attest.
There’s something truly pathetic about the failure of courage, ethics and will to live that you exhibit here. That you would sacrifice your life and the lives of others on the altar of pacifism, cowardice and political correctness is a manifestation of suicidal wooden-headedness. I’ll leave you with a quote from Lee Harris’ The Suicide of Reason. You may find it instructive.
“Our profound reluctance to face the possibility of future life-and-death struggles is completely understandable. Yet when this reluctance takes the form of denial and wishful thinking, when it refuses to face threats realistically and soberly, when it breeds fantasy and mirages and utopian delusions, then it can become a prescription for suicide.”
The Suicide of Reason, pp 10, “Fanaticism and the Myth of Modernity”
If I may answer for Roger, your question is covered in the blurb above the comments section, where it says:
That seems to answer your question.
My question is, given that clear statement, why was it necessary for you to ask your already-answered question?
A general question for folks who believe that the proposed mosque is too close to ground zero, one I have waited in vain to hear anyone ask. How close to ground zero should we allow a mosque to be built? One block, five blocks, ten or should we be talking about miles? For precedent we could use the Japanese Consulate in Honolulu which I believe is less than five miles from Pearl Harbor. So how ’bout four to five miles, of course if any mosques already exist inside the exclusion zone then I guess we either grandfather them in or demolish them.
This whole argument should make our troops lives easier in Afghanistan because those folks already think we love Muslims and shouldn’t impact our nation building at all.
Eden,
Can go into this ‘Mosque’ uncovered (Muslim or not)?
Can gays enter this ‘Mosque’ without fear?
Can Christians enter this ‘Mosque’ without apprehension?
If this Mosque is supposed to be some pillar for the patron saints of ‘peace’…then by all means…they should post a sign that allows ALL people of ALL faiths and any/all sexuality ENTER freely.
A consulate is not a place of worship.
A mosque is.
Your comparison fails miserably. It doesn’t even get a “nice try.”
Go back to your imam and ask him for new talking points.
CW,
Next, Eden will emphatically espouse the rights of NAMBLA building a center near an all boy’s school playground.
Or, she will proclaim that the State is God, therefore a consulate is a place of worship, and equivalent to a mosque.
You are correct ConservativeWanderer a consulate isn’t a place of worship so what do you think the appropriate distance should be in a nation with freedom of religion?
In this case, how about far enough away that they’re not building on the ashes of the people who were killed by Muslims?
If Islam really is a religion of peace, wouldn’t they want to move the mosque to a place where it doesn’t disturb the peace of the friends and families of the victims of 9/11?
Again how far is that? Just give me a number, that is all I’m asking.
Tell me how far the ashes from the World Trade Center fell. Then add, say, 10 feet. There’s your number.
How about ten miles out to sea? Off the Continental Shelf would be a good spot.
Could use a burned out deep water drilling rig. Obama can get you a good slightly used one.
Oh, Eden, I also note you ignored my second point.
Why can’t the “religion of peace” honor the peace of mind of those whose friends and family perished in the Muslim attacks on the Twin Towers, and just quietly cancel this project, or move it to another neighborhood? It’s not like there’s no mosques in New York City, and I’ve not seen any data indicating that there’s a huge Muslim population in that neighborhood who are clamoring for a mosque of their own.
Eden, is “Islam” a religion?
Can you name one instance where Islam has ‘tolerated’ OTHER religions?
Can you name one instance where ISLAM has ‘tolerated’ GAYS or the rights of WOMEN or JEWS or Christians or even ATHIESTS?
Can you name one instance where ISLAM has not practiced the very act of lying to propagate itself when faced with the corrupt and evil truths that are revealed time and time again?
Open your eyes lil’ Eden…open your eyes.
Ask yourself this, Eden:
Should a so-called ‘Religion’ that allows NO freedom of ‘others’ and HATES the WEST and USA specifically as “THE GREAT SATAN” and has time and time again railed against the USA as “THE ENEMY”.
Or, is “Religion” just a very convenient ‘guise’ the enemy is using to gain a foothold over us like that have done throughout history? When do you open your eyes? WHEN?
“He scares the hell out of CAIR.”
You bet he does. But I think we all ought to thank CAIR, Hamas, The mudslime brotherhood, the Saudi’s, the whabbi’s and the 911 mosque idiots. Idiots?
You bet. Without these foaming at the mouth, despicable organs of islamist fascists…we’d be totally ignorant of their goals, ideas, conflicts and desires to overwhelm western ideas, freedom and democracy. So thank these ignorant fools for waking us up to the real threat that islime is. Thanks for making us aware that we’ll just have to get down and dirty…soon…and rid our country of your barbarism and insatiable appetite for world dominance. Without these freaks screaming about their “rights” ( which we know they deny in every country where islime is the STATE ) there’d be more of the stealth jihad and creeping sharia.
What’s next is to eliminate them… purge them from our shores the same way we defeated National Socialism. Does anyone see any difference between the 3rd Reich’s desire for world dominance? If I had to choose between the two….I think that the Nazi’s were less threatening than the islamist threat.
There are no “Islamists,” only Muslims who adhere to Islam.
There are no “moderate Muslims,” only Muslims who do not adhere to Islam.
Islam…a political ideology that seeks worldwide…DOMINATION…GET IT YET?
Robert Spencer is to Islam and Islamism what Steve MacIntyre is to global warming dogma – a truthteller.
All I ever needed to know about islam I learned on 9/11 and on Jihadwatch.org.
Just as Islam does not mean ‘Peace ‘ it means ‘Submission’ ‘Allahu Akbar” does not mean ‘God is great’. Sorry to disabuse you Simon it means “MY God is the GREATEST’ which is a whole new can of worms you must agree. Because if YOUR God is the Greatest then that logically means that there are other LESSER Gods thus revealing Islams POLYTHEISTIC roots and of course to proclaim your God Greatest implies a competitive, triumphalist mindset too.
No wonder Muslims are so glad that Politically Correct Western PC moonbats and even some so called Conservatives continue to misunderstand them even when what they say is so blatantly obvious.
And how many times does the Taliban or Al Qaeda have to say, and perform, that they declare war on the U.S. before anyone believes them?
I concur with “MarkD” above. Islam is not a religion but a political movement. That is why the name “Islam” means submission — submission to their political goals camouflaged as religion.
This was their goal a thousand years ago (they were stopped at the gates of Vienna in the early 1600s) and it remains their goal today — the Islamization of the West through Sharia and other perverted means. Not only should Sharia be banned throughout western society, in the U.S. CAIR should be banned. CAIR is an Islamist-fascist front group, funded by Islamist terrorists, whose goal is to make radical Islam and Sharia appear compatible. Their goal is the overthrow of our society, so CAIR should be banned as an organization. As Lincoln said, “the Constitution is not a suicide pact.”
What the Ground-zero mosque is all about is a probe — the Islamists are probing our society to see the extent of what they can achieve. If successful, they will probe further, become more aggressive.
The argument should be reversed. Suppose that some western radicals had flown a 747 into a Mecca holy site, and then 9 years later a western group proposes that a cathedral be built near that ground-zero. How do you think Muslims would respond?
Of course, this begs the question of whether Muslim countries currently allow any Christian churches in their societies. The answer is no in almost all cases. Hence, our position should be that we will allow no more mosques in western countries until Muslim countries allow churches in their countries. A moratorium on mosques should be imposed throughout western society. The Germans have closed down the infamous mosque where many of the 9-11 perps planned the attack. And this is the point. Jihad and war against the west is a prime occurrence in these “houses of worship.” We have no obligation to allow our enemy the forum from which it would destroy us — in fact it would be suicide to do so.
The idiot brain-dead left doesn’t get it because it does not believe in America, and in fact wants to bring traditional America down for its own subjective and perverted purposes. Why else would several left-wing Jewish politicians in New York sympathize with the Islamist-fascist forces seeking to put up a military installation, masquerading as a Mosque-House of Worship, at Ground Zero behind their enemy’s lines?
Don’t EVER become emotional with muslims… Your control is what unhinges them… Find the strength to fight dispassionately…
Eden,
In response to your question, about the range within the mosque building should be excluded, let me offer this:
Any part of the zone in which debris or remains landed, or have since been found.
Any position which would put the mosque in line of sight of the debris zone.
Call to prayer must not be audible within the debris zone.
If I had lost a loved one there, I would want to know that I could go down there and not have to see, or hear, that mosque, or any other mosque. I would find this whole thing revolting.
Let’s not forget, people have a right to voice their revulsion. And their anger at a president who would crawl on his belly to extend to foreigners, the respect, consideration, and dignity he denies to bereaved Americans.
At some point our FBI, CIA, and military, must approach Islam as a political movement of sedition and treason. I wrote an article on this recently: http://harrisonburg-va.actforamericachapters.org/2010/08/12/the-manhattan-mega-mosque-religious-freedom-or-religious-treason/