John McCain came awake on Larry King tonight (paradoxical as that may seem) by raising questions about Obama’s immediate closing of Guantanamo Bay. I wonder what the President actually knows about what goes on there. Does he rely on the media? Those brilliant fellows at Newsweek, perhaps, who told us that our servicemen were flushing Korans down the toilet there (when it turned out they didn’t have flush toilets)? There has been so much outright BS written about Gitmo it’s a miracle they even know it’s in Cuba. [I wonder if any of the Newsweek editors are offering to put up the released prisoners.-ed. Until their kids get back from boarding school.]
Meanwhile, speaking of the press, they’re already getting a little nervous about their Dear Leader. It will be fascinating to watch as he lets them down, which will be inevitable, of course. We really do live in interesting times.
NY Times is doing it’s part regarding Gitmo. Who didn’t see this coming?
“The emergence of a former Guantánamo Bay detainee as leader of Al Qaeda’s Yemeni branch illustrates the pitfalls of closing the detention center.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/world/middleeast/23yemen.html?hp
The image of Guantanamo Bay has been slimed by the leftist establishment. We should, by all rights, be proud of the humane treatment provided to the inmates. Barack Obama’s commitment to closing the facility down in a year is mealy mouth move. It allows him to throw a bone to the left while finding alternative sites. A year from now Obama can also claim that extaordinary circumstance have forced him to keep “Club G’itmo” open a little longer. My guess is that it will remain open for at least the next decade. After all, where are they going to put these prisoners? Do you want them living next door to your family?
Well, Congressman Murtha offered to house them in his district of central PA…
The problem is that the only Federal prison in Murtha’s district is a low security “country club prison” for white collar criminals (Mayor Barry served part of his sentence there)…not exactly the place I’d want to place hard core terrorists…
As much as I hate to say it…it might be in the long term good for Obama to turn all those terrorists loose. When news reports start coming in how Gitmo “alumni” are killing thousands since being released it might demonstrate how irresponsible Obama is.
Note to the military: next time don’t take any prisoners.
Obama’s Cabinet level group to study the future of the Gitmo prisoners assumes no deep thinking up to now.
“We need to study it.” Forests have been cut down to make the paper for all these studies. The Democratic Congress passed the Military Detention Act of 2006 to deal with this problem.
Was there not enough reflection then?
The way is clear: military commissions with the right to impose the life imprisonment and death penalties reviewable by the president.
And when KSM and his thugs comes up for review we will see what the Messiah sees as just punishment.
When will you right wingers learn? Twisting the truth to fit your bizarre and narrow world view won’t change reality. President Obama doesn’t need the media to keep him informed. He knows exactly what goes on at Gitmo. The place is a gulag. Yes it is. We have been keeping political prisoners there in violation of U.S., international law and the Geneva convention. Yes, we have. We’ve been torturing people there. Yes, us; a people who preach human rights and the rule of law to the rest of the world.
Obama is right in closing that gulag. That we have suspected terrorists there at all evidences the stupidity of Geo. Bush and his band of idiots. If any of those detainees really are terrorist and we need information from them, they should have been put in civilian detention facilities and not isolated. Their communications could have been monitored and and agents could have posed as prisoners and talked them up. We’d have got all the information we could need. But of course, we have operatives all over the Middle East, so we already have more and better information that anyone at Gitmo knows.
Oh, and by the way, detainees told the media that the guards at Gitmo were flushing copies of the Koran. What they actually said was that the guards were going to the toilet on the Koran. The truth was that the guards were urinating on it. Three were punished for it. Conveniently forgot that fact, didn’t you. Sorry, forgot. You don’t need facts, but only ideology.
You know, I’m beginning to think Obama’s biggest immediate motivation may be to simply avoid criticism. What has he done so far? The orders to close Gitmo and not use “torture” — except the orders really say do studies with the goal of closing Gitmo, froze the existing prosecutions, and Obama has already left himself an out on vigorous interrogation. He announced his was ending the Mexico City restrictions — then doesn’t actually do it, because he doesn’t want to do it on the Roe v Wade anniversary. But he’ll get around to it, yeah.
Whenever he’s asked about a flipflop, he uses that “I have always said” trope, in which he insists that whatever he’s saying currently is exactly what he’s always said.
What does “is” mean again?
What I’m assuming is that Obama has a to-do list. Everything not on that list is either a crisis to be managed or a distraction to be ignored. Ethics problems with cabinet picks? Distraction. Economic meltdown? Crisis.
A year of study saves Obama’s pledge while not actually doing anything (other than halting the tribunals, which he could restart). If that stretches a little long due to the ongoing crisis (insert some convenient crisis in the world somewhere), no one will fault him for it. Another delay after that wouldn’t even make page 34. Then the actual shutdown process could take years, too. So Obama really doesn’t have to do anything in this term.
His resume is so thin that it’s impossible to know what’s on the list of things he actually wants to accomplish. After very pro-Israel rhetoric in the campaign, he suddenly makes a significant shift against Israel in his first foreign policy address. Maybe he doesn’t have such a list; For example, President Bush Sr. didn’t seem to have any agenda other than good stewardship. Most presidents, though, want to have more of an impact.
So the to-do list could be nationalized healthcare, or mandatory “volunteerism” for HS and college students, or some other initiative. From what I’ve seen so far, he’ll use moderate and conservative symbolism and language, married to orthodox liberal policies. Everything else will be deferred, managed or dealt with along the path of least resistance.
Nancy:
I’m sure Murtha will now need an earmark …er… ‘stimulus package’ to build a new prison just for these terrorists.
Obama had two years to come up with ideas of what to do regarding Gitmo, after he embraced the far Left’s position it should be shut down. If he had enough time to create his plan for the economy (After all, he was credited with his ‘quiet leadership’ in creating and passing the first ‘bailout’.) and his plan for Afghanistan, along with his plan for energy. How could he not have a plan for one of the key policies of his campaign?
Oh wait…this is a typical Chicago politician speaking. Letting the media lapdogs pant over his rhetoric, while creating nothing of substance and spending huge amounts of taxpayer dollars at the same time. I wonder how many high-priced ‘consultants/campaign contributors’ will be hired to develop his Gitmo plan?
You know it is strange how people continue to comment on how President Obama is going to let the country down. But have they ever mentioned how their previous president never gave a care about the American people. He only cared about taking care of himself and his “entourage”.
He is the one that failed America. People have lost their jobs, homes and they can’t feed their families. Bush has put this country in a major financial deficit. And no one seems to blame him for this “hell on earth”. And there is living proof that 911 was an inside job, but no one wants to believe that Bush was so ruthless to bring down the towers and kill thousands of people for his own greed.
So, to all that want to see this black man fall because of his race, Bush did not care about any of you all when he wanted to make his money. He did not care if your job was being sent overseas or if you could afford to feed your family or enough money to put gas in your vehicle.
In the end it is sad that another man that sincerely cares about putting America back on track is getting so much grief for wanting to help and clean up another mans wrong doing.
President Obama is not looking for gratification he is only looking for change.
He is the one that failed america. People have lost jobs,homes and they can’t feed their families. Bush has put this country in a major financial deficit. And noone seems to blame him for this “hell on earth”. And there is living proof that 911 was an inside job, but noone wants to beleive Bush was so ruthless to bring down the towers and kill thousands of people for his own greed.
So, to all that want to see this black man fall because of his race, Bush did not care about any of you all when he wanted to make his money. He did not care if your job was being sent overseas or if you could afford to feed your family or enough money to put gas in your car.
In the end it is sad that another man that sincerley cares about putting america back on track is getting the so much greif for wanting to help and clean up another mans wrong doing. President Obama is not looking for gratification he is only looking for change.
Typical troll using their two most favorite lines:
8/11 inside job, and if you are against Obama’s policies you are a racist.
That’s enough to tell you not to bother even responding.
I know…9/11
I just couldn’t stop laughing at this guy to correct it before hitting ‘submit’.
“6. Not a leftie:
Oh, and by the way, detainees told the media that the guards at Gitmo were flushing copies of the Koran. What they actually said was that the guards were going to the toilet on the Koran. The truth was that the guards were urinating on it. Three were punished for it. Conveniently forgot that fact, didn’t you. Sorry, forgot. You don’t need facts, but only ideology.”
Wrong.
June 4, 2005, Associated Press:
“On March 25, a detainee complained to guards that “urine came through an air vent” and splashed on him and his Koran. A guard admitted he was at fault, but a report released Friday evening offering new details about Koran mishandling incidents did not make clear whether the guard intended the result.
In another confirmed incident, water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Korans to get wet, and in a confirmed but ambiguous case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Koran.”
There was a single, unintentional incident involving urine. Not a pattern of such. Each isolated case has been shown to be exactly that: Isolated. Small in number. And addressed. Again, nowhere near being a pattern, as you allege.
Plus, you ignore that there was indeed a charge leveled that the Koran was flushed down the toilet, a charge rescinded by Newsweek when it became obvious that the claimant had not personally witnessed this, but instead had “heard” from another who’d “heard” from yet another that this occurred. That was not false. You conflate the two charges to make the flushing accuastion seem like a lie rather than the rebutted myth it truly is. The truth of the matter is that the guards behavior at Guantanamo is at complete odds with the false picture you paint. You allege a pattern of abuse, take one specific case and lie about the fact that it is only one specific incident, as well as the fact that it was not an intentional occurance. Not a very strong case on your part. More like a false picture painted in order to denigrate.
The fact of the matter is that the detainee staff must undergo training and abide by the special rules for handling the Koran. Those rules follow:
“Department Of Defense
Joint Task Force Guantanamo
Headquarters, Joint Detention Operation Group (JDOG)
Guantanamo Bay, Cuba APO AE 09360
JTF-GTMO-JDOG-CO 19 JAN 03
MEMORANDUM FOR All personnel, JDOG
SUBJECT: Camp Delta Interim SOP Modification: Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
1. General. The purpose of this SOP is to provide guidance and set specific procedures for the
handling and inspecting of detainee Korans.
2. Intent. To ensure the safety of the detainees and MPs while respecting the cultural dignity
of the Korans thereby reducing the friction over the searching the Korans. JTF-GTMO
personnel directly working with detainees will avoid handling or touching the detainee’s Koran
whenever possible. When military necessity does require the Koran to be search, the subsequent
procedures will be followed.
3. Inspection.
a. The MP informs the detainee that the Chaplain or a Muslim interpreter will inspect
Koran. If the detainee refuses the inspection at any time, the noncompliance is reported to the
Detention Operations Center (DOC) and logged appropriately by the block NCO.
b. The Koran will not be touched or handled by the MP.
c. The Chaplain or Muslim interpreter will give instructio ns to the detainee who will handle
the Koran. He may or may not require a language specific interpreter.
d. The inspector is examining so as to notice an unauthorized items, markings, or any
indicators that raises suspicion about the contents of the Koran.
e. The inspector will instruct the detainee to first open the one cover with one hand while
holding the Koran in the other thus exposing the inside cover completely.
f. The inspector instructs the detainee to open pages in an upright manner (as if reading the
Koran). This is a random page search and not every page is to be turned. Pages will be turned
slowly enough to clearly see the pages.
g. The inspector has the detainee show the inside of the back cover of the Koran.
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
JOINT TASK FORCE GUANTANAMO
HEADQUARTERS, JOINT DETENTION OPERATION GROUP (JDOG)
GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA APO AE 09360
JTF-GTMO-JDOG-CO
SUBJECT: Camp Delta Interim SOP Modification: Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
h. The detainee is instructed to show both ends of the Koran while the book is closed so that
inspector can note the binding while closed paying attention to abnormal contours or protrusions
associated with the binding. The intent is to deduce if anything may be in the binding without
forcing the detainee to expose the binding, which may be construed as culturally insensitive or
offensive given the significance of the Koran.
i. How the detainee reacted, observation by other detainees, and other potentially relevant
observations will be annotated appropriately on the block significant activities sheet as well as
staff journal.
4. Handling.
a. Clean gloves will be put on in full view of the detainees prior to handling.
b. Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling respect
and reverence. Care should be used so that the right hand is the primary one used to manipulate
any part of the Koran due to the cultural association with the left hand. Handle the Koran as if it
were a fragile piece of delicate art.
c. Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or
sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas.
5. Removal.
a. Korans should be left in the cell as a general rule (save in MSU), even when a detainee is
moved to another cell or block. In principal, every cell (except MSU) will have a Koran
“assigned” to it.
b. If a Koran must be removed at the direction the CJDOG, the detainee library personnel or
Chaplain will be contacted to retrieve and properly store the Koran in the detainee library. The
request for the librarian/Chaplain, as well as the retrieval itself, will be logged appropriately.
c. If the Chaplain, librarian, or Muslim interpreter, within the needs of the situation, cannot
remove the Koran, then the MP may remove the Koran after approved by the DOC (who notes
this in the MP Blotter) IAW the following procedures:
1) Clean gloves will be put on in full view of the detainees prior to handling
2
JTF-GTMO-JDOG-CO
SUBJECT: Camp Delta Interim SOP Modification: Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans
Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)
2) Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling
respect and reverence.
3) Place a clean, dry, detainee towel on the detainee bed and then place the Koran on top
of the clean towel in a manner, which allows it to be wrapped without turning the Koran over at
any time in a reverent manner. Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the
floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet area when doing this activity.
d. How the detainee reacted, observation by other detainees, and other potentially relevant
observations will be annotated appropriately on the block significant activities sheet as well as
staff journal.
e. The Koran shall be returned to the librarian, Chaplain, or DOC (in that order).
f. Exception: Detainee in MSU may have a Koran if specifically authorized by a 508-1
or the Level 5 Block Entitlement Form. Once detainee leaves MSU, the same
handling/removing policies and procedures remain in effect.
6. Korans are the property of the U.S. Government and as such will remain in the cells only to
be removed at the JDOG Commander’s decision.
7. For further information or clarification, please contact the JDOG DOC @ 3239.”
Note the direct instructions to demonstrate proper respect and conduct onesself in the properly respectful manner.
—–
You are refuted. I suggest you learn what you’re talking about before posting drivel next time. If you have a charge, substantiate it. Don’t just post blanket allegations without sources. You run the risk of being demonstrated as wrong and agenda-driven when you do.
“10. Truth:
And there is living proof that 911 was an inside job, but no one wants to believe that Bush was so ruthless to bring down the towers and kill thousands of people for his own greed. “
Wrong. There is no “living proof”. I’ve seen what people like you have peddled, and it’s all garbage. You only have unsubstantiated claims, not real evidence. None of the “proof” put forth by you conspiracy peddlers stands the test of evidence or reality. Not a single claim by you people has been proven, and all have been demonstrated as either being based on misunderstandings, misrepresentations, or outright lies. So don’t try to bring that junk here.
Everyone else: Don’t bother giving this moron the time of day. If he tries making any claims about 9/11, simply compare them against the following sites to see the distortions 9/11 Truthers must make to push their case:
911 Myths
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com
Debunking 911.com
A Guide Through Common 9/11 Conspiracy Theories: WTC, Pentagon, Flight 93, Hijackers
“Truth” wrote:
Bush has put this country in a major financial deficit.
And in response, Obama proposes to increase that financial deficit by about a trillion dollars. So, the “change” that Obama is advocating consists of expanding a policy — deficit spending — that has already failed — and failed many times, such as when first Hoover and then Roosevelt tried it during the Great Depression.
Deficit spending is the process of borrowing money from the private sector — thereby reducing private spending — so that it can used to increase public spending. Why on earth anyone thinks this is going to cause net economic growth is beyond me.
I would be willing to bet that GITMO is the most humane detention facility in Cuba. But you won’t hear Newsweek complain about the other ones.
I don’t care whether they close X-Ray as long as they don’t just cut the inmates loose. Like it or not, “Guantanamo” is now synonymous with “concentration camp” in a lot of people’s minds. X-Ray’s existence has been and is a political liability for the President – both domestically and internationally. Closing it will, we hope, increase our badly-drained political and moral capital among countries. It will also, we hope, calm internal critics of the President and the GWOT. This may make it easier for us to “bring people on board” in the fight against Al Qaeda and give the President greater freedom to act without critics obstructing his every move. So I think closing X-Ray makes political sense at least.
But any political gains will be negated by a failure to deal correctly with the camp’s current inmates. Obviously, they can’t be simply let go. I think trying them in civilian courts would be a mistake, too. There are liberal lawyers lined up to defend them, and the government has a poor success rate in terrorist trials. I’m not sure military tribunals are the answer, either – too easy for opponents to depict them as un-American. (That political capital at risk again.) Frankly, I don’t know what to do with them. They are a new kind of defendant. What do you charge them with and how do you try them? Or do you try them at all? I don’t know – but warehousing them indefinitely in a “gulag” is not the answer.
Yes Roger, we do live in interesting times.
Closing X-Ray will do nothing to ‘bring people on board’. Those who were ‘upset’ at our actually keeping dangerous terrorists in a place where they could no longer carry on attacks, did so because they were trying to find something they could make themselves feel morally ‘superior’. These same countries who for decades were mute regarding the murderous actions of Hamas, the political repression of the Castros, the corruption of Mugabe, the endless waste and fecklessness of the UN, etc.
Obama might get a glowing editorial in the NYT, but terrorists are simply laughing at him, and those allies we have are dumbfounded by his foolishness.
The real scandal here is not the existence of Gitmo. The real scandal is revealed in that Times article to which Mark linked in comment 1.
The article reveals that we’ve been willing to release Gitmo prisoners back to their country of origin because those countries put these terrorists through a “jihadist rehabilitation program”!
And even as we have confirmation that one of the prisoners returned to Saudi Arabia has turned up as the deputy chief of Al Qaeda in Yemen, the Saudis are claiming — with a straight face — that “that no graduate of its rehabilitation program has returned to terrorism”.
Rehab for jihad? I wonder how many Americans are aware that their government is trusting that to work?
I am sure that Obama will close GITMO,
I am also sure that most of it’s current residents will not find themselves free any time soon. Now that the Anoitted One has spoken the media will promptly forget that the detainess ever existed. They will leave one-by-one until the camp has been emptied. Leftist governments have a long record of making unwanted people dissappear.
I wonder what the President actually knows about what goes on there.
Funny. I don’t remember you wondering this when Bush — who didn’t know the difference between Sunni and Shia prior to the Iraq war — was in office.
Truth and Not a leftie, I propose you each open your homes as a bed and breakfast for the poor, misunderstood enemy combatants.
Damn fools.
I wonder if all those Hollywood types who pledged to ‘volunteer’ for the One, are getting their guest bedrooms ready for their new visitors?
BTW…What prevented them from doing volunteer work the previous eight years?
9/11 Truth Guy: answer me this: if the Bush government was so ruthless as to carry out 9/11 AND so clever as to get away with it AND frame innocent Muslims for it……….why wouldn’t they have simply faked some WMD after
the conquest of Iraq rather than get egg on their face? That would’ve been childs-play compared to the massive undertaking of a 9/11.
I think much unpleasant stuff will simply be moved off the books. Gitmo is one example. So is the new lobbying decree. There is a difference between being a lobbyist and lobbying. The former involves official registration and the latter can be quite informal. Former gov’t (White House) appointees, etc. can still do all kinds of unofficial begging and pleading for money, favors, etc. Just not on the record. The Chicago Way will be a lot like this throughout the tenure of the Administration. It will work for a while until something blows up. In this philosophy, the public perception is what matters, not what is actually going on.
With Gitmo Americans essentially saw what was going on. Obtaining information was extremely easy for journalists and activists. Heck, the military and other parts of gov’t handed information over. The Hope and Change will be to obscure what’s really going on. It will be far more hidden.
I am sorry. Do you know anything about these things? You were wrong about everything last year. Why change now, right?
Wherever they end up sending the GITMO detainees, one thing is certain, their living conditions, treatment and safety will deteriorate, not improve. But at least the “human rights” protesters will sleep easier at night.
Soon the Administration will start hedging its bets in other ways. We will hear the laying out of rhetoric that if the US were to be hit with terrorist activity, it’s simply pay back for the evils of Gitmo and Bushitler. The cycle of violence narrative will be applied here.
“Not a leftie” – another lifelong conservative Republican voter for Obama!
Truth:
That was insane, really it was. And btw, Bush can not put this country into deficit, only Congress can do that.
In 2006 when the Democrats took over Congress the unemployment rate was 4.5% and the deficit was about $153 billion. Look at both today.
As for Gitmo, if these people are innocent and Bush did it all, what is there to study? Why doesn’t Obama just turn them loose with a big fat apology?
Sorry, Roger, Obama’s not “immediately closing” anything.
Learn before you write.
Simon says: John McCain came awake on Larry King tonight (paradoxical as that may seem) by raising questions about Obama’s immediate closing of Guantanamo Bay. I wonder what the President actually knows about what goes on there.
This is going to leave a mark … Obama lawyers set to defend Yoo
The irony is so thick that you can build a battleship.