Oh, those proverbial elephants in the room! I caught Colin Powell’s predicted (by Drudge) endorsement of Obama on Meet the Press today and there were few surprises. Powell, ever the Lord of Gravitas, paid lip service to McCain being a good president, then, with furrowed brow, cited the conventional wisdom – that McCain demonstrated inconstancy during the economic crises, that the choice of Palin was ill considered and the relationship to Ayers overstated. While I have disagreements, these are, as a I said, conventional points.
But then Powell raised the ante. Citing unnamed Republican party leaders (not McCain), he said these leaders made allegations to him that Obama was a Muslim and therefore a “terrorist”. Really? I would like to hear the names of those “leaders.” Sure, there are plenty of extremists on the Internet and elsewhere bantering around stuff like that (just as there are liberal-left extremists spewing nonsense about McCain), but genuine party leaders? Would Powell please name one? If not, this seems like a political smear. Why would Powell feel he needed to make it?
Meanwhile, Obama’s real, quite verifiable and public religious background (and mentor) was not even mentioned by the Secretary of State – namely, the execrable Reverend Wright. That is far more disconcerting than some vague Muslim association (whether by birth or otherwise) and indicates a lack of judgment on Obama’s part that any person of gravitas (like a Colin Powell) should find difficult, almost impossible, to defend. Yet the racist Wright, we all know, was Obama’s chosen minister for twenty years, married him, baptized his children, gave him spiritual guidance and provided the inspiration for his memoirs – even the title of the second one. It’s hard to imagine a closer relationship with a pastor, except perhaps a spousal one.
Again, as I said, Powell ignored this, although Obama’s initial reluctance to separate himself from Wright was evident to the entire world – not to mention the candidate’s bizarre assertion that he had not until then realized the reverend’s extreme views. It was at that point many of us knew that Obama was not, to use Powell’s words, “a transformational figure,” unless by transformational you meant dishonest.
Powell has historically been dishonest, and political.
I think that religion needs to get the hell out of politics is what I think.
whenever religion is brought in, things get stupid. and mean. and irrelevant.
He finds McCain lacking in not coming down harder on Anti-Muslim talk, but it is OK that Obama’s base contains anti-military and anti-American radicals. The most we get from Obama is that they do not reflect his viewpoint. Does Powell think that Obama should have refused the endorsements and money of the Hollywood crowd who have sent obnoxios movies about America abd its military around the world?
you say powell is lying?
1 no proof
2 no reason
prove he has been dishonest
you are just insane with grief
Years ago I would have voted for Colin Powell for President. But, then he went wobbly on the Iraq War, and started doing a fan dance months ago with respect to support for Obama.
People are free to vote for whomever they want. But I cannot understand a shift such as Powell’s.
I laud a shift from left to right, such as that done by Jon Voight. He says he allied himself with the antiwar Left during Vietnam, but then saw the Left’s apathy in the face of the bloodbath that followed. Then he said he realized that the Left did not care about Vietnam or Cambodia, but just wanted the US to lose the war. So, he grew in wisdom, and has joined on the side of the US now.
What is Powell’s excuse? Did he have an aneurism that removed 70 IQ points?
“Powell, who for many years was considered the most likely candidate to become the first African-American president, said in an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press” that he was not supporting Obama because of his race”
Where have I seen “it’s not about race”?
Oh that’s right – it’s in the Encyclopedia of Dishonest Excuses, between “it’s not about money” and “it’s not you, it’s me”.
Something tells me if the race was between, say, Michael Steele and Dennis Kucinich, and John McCain broke with his party to endorse Kucinich, the press reaction would be a little different. I guess my leftist freinds are right about one thing – there definitely is racism in America.
Gee, do you think Obama and Powell agree about starting the Iraq war?
Obama would be sitting at home had Powell not gone to the UN pushing for the war.
VITO CORLEONE
Mention it — don’t insist. Barzini is a man who’ll know that without being told.
TOM
You mean Tattaglia…
VITO CORLEONE
Tattaglia’s a pimp — he never’a could’ve outfought Santino. But I didn’t know until this day that it was — Barzini all along…
Mr. Simon, you do realize you’ve just called the only enthusiastic, viable base that still supports McCain/Palin “extremists”? Somehow, I don’t think they’d appreciate your description.
And it’s not just Internet nutcases, it’s the typical parade of seethingly angry supporters lined up for McCain/Palin rallies. There is no similar phenomena at Obama/Biden rallies, no wave after wave of followers spouting “Manchurian candidate” or “Alzheimer’s victim” at Obama rallies. (Ridicule of Palin, unfortunately for you guys, simply writes itself.) And there are no Democratic members of Congress calling what now constitutes a majority of the electorate as well as the Legislature “anti-American.” Just the one who McCain called one of the wisest men he knows telling it like it really is.
However, both Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley Jr. would agree with your inadvertent “extremist” assessment of the current GOP base, and in fact, they did. They deplored what the GOP and the Conservative movement was becoming even before they died, and now I guarantee you they’re spinning in their graves fast enough to generate electricity.
Face it, Mr. Simon – you’ve backed the wrong horse, you’re grasping at straws, and you can’t bring yourself to admit it.
Doubling down on the smear by association isn’t going to work. The GOP is dead, and you guys killed it.
“President Barack Obama.” Get used to it.
Had John McCain asked Colin Powell to be on his advisorary committee and possibly hold a positionin his cabinate, he would not be backing Sen. Obama. Pres. he did not want to be, but somewhere in the cabinate, he wants recognition for his past performances to this country. For the past five years he has been out of the news, a forgotten past of the insiders group, now the media will use his name to bring military voters over to their favorite “Obama”. This is what they accused McCain of doing when he brought Sarah Palin on board. It is all about votes, using Powell, what did they promise him is the big question, and we will never know until after the game is played out. We can see up to this point, who uses people until he, “Obama” needs them no more and renegs on any promises or relationships..Powell is going to have to experience the real Obama and when he does and he will, the depth of depression & what he has been part of
regarding the America he fought for will weigh heavy on his shoulders. People use people, color
is not the involvement, it is the greed & dishonesty that causes the use.
One affirmative action hire endorsing another. No news here.
Dare I suggest that Colin Powell is as “brilliant” a general as Barack Obama is a an orator. ie that affirmative action is working overtime in both cases. Or does that reduce me to merely one more racist?
I’m no military genius but somehow I’ve never imagined that “overwhelming force” ranked way up there with the best from Carl von Clausewitz and Sun tzu.
Does it surprise anyone that powell won’t break ranks with 99% of African American voters? Does anyone miss the craven, self-serving stench of his endorsement this late in the campaign? And a vicious junkyard dog endorsement it is, to boot.
Was Powell not party, heart and soul, to the policies he now condemns? Did he not publicly hold up the “evidence” to justify the war?
The great lesson here is to conservative Republicans: African American loyalty can’t be bought. Honorable men like Colin Powell are above cheap politics.
Roger, please explain to me how a Jewish voter can vote for someone who has been surrounded all his adult life by antisemites. It reminds
me of the German Jewish people of wealth voted for Hitler because they
were afraid of Communism. Of course the new antisemites (of the left)
love the Jews, it’s the Zionists they’d like to exterminate.
Here’s where I think we stand…..
30 years ago, the American electorate was more socially conservative. That’s because you had all these people in their 60′s, 70′s and 80′s who are all dead now who weren’t very fond of long haired hippies and Black radicals. They’ve been replaced by the children of baby boomers who are in their 20′s and 30′s who have grown up in an era of extreme political correctness.
30 years ago there was no conservative media, so the mainstream media had a complete monopoly. However, because the electorate was more conservative, the mainstream media would’ve understood that if word got out that Obama had relationships with the likes of Rev. Wright or william Ayers, he’d have no hope of becoming president. So the media would not try to suppress or downplay Obama’s associations with these radicals, because they would know that Obama wouldn’t get any further than Jesse Jackson got.
Now were at a point where Obama’s associations with these radicals could still destroy his chances of becoming president. But only if the media went out of it’s way to really dig deep into these associations and give them continuing front page coverage. The media undertands that if they downplay these associations, that many people will not get bent out of shape about them.
This is the end result of 40 years of liberal propaganda where right wingers are portrayed as dangerous, while left wing radicals are portrayed as do-gooders who sometimes go a little overboard. The irony is that during this same 40 year period, we’ve only had one president who governed as a liberal, and he got booted out of office after one term.
So on one hand, the American people are no longer particularly spooked by aging hippie Marxists and angry Black seperatists. On the other hand, there’s no reason to think that the American people are ready to embrace the ideology of these nutcases if it was put into practice. A perfect example of this is the recent global warming bill that the Democrats didn’t even have the nerve to bring to a vote once the US Chamber of Commerce detailed the impact that it would have on businesses.
American liberalism is just a fashion plate. It’s a guy in a Che Guevera T-shirt reading the Village Voice as he eats an overpriced Sunday brunch in a gentrified urban neighborhood where poor minorities were forced to move out after the artsy hipsters moved in and property values shot through the roof. These liberals love to talk the socialist talk. Let’s see how they like walking the socialist walk.
What you saw today was Colin Powell’s ringing endorsement of Colin Powell.
On Colin Powell. He is not a brilliant General. He is a political
General. He has none or little military experience and a lot of
knowledge in bureaucratic infighting, witness the Plame Affair which
was revealed by his second in command, Armitage.
Colin Powell has always been a timid warrior. His doctrine of overwhelming force is one example. Another example, is that he was against us kicking Hussein out of Kuwait. Remember that? I’ve always suspected that he was the prime reason that George Bush Sr. stopped the war instead of going on to Baghdad to finish Hussein at that time.
So now, his timid nature shows up by being afraid to go against the “bro”, and yet he said in the street interview he was still a Republican. My aching back, he’s now joined the ranks of liars on the left.
What’s the matter, a four-star general is not “American” enough for you?
“It’s a guy in a Che Guevera T-shirt reading the Village Voice as he eats an overpriced Sunday brunch”
Affluent yuppies can afford their radicalism—because it is not really taken that seriously. Tome Wolfe’s book, Radical Chic & Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers may have been written in 1970. Nonetheless, it is as relevant as if written last month.
Obama, Powell. The rise of the affimitive action Princes.
Honorable or not, Powell the timid warrior has always been a liberal who, oddly, considered himself a Republican. But he influences more liberals than conservatives/libertarians, who winced when W. made him his SecState, and were not at all surprised when he quit.
I never had much respect for Powell once I finished reading his book. He’s a courtier and a syncophant, not a military leader.
wobbly?
That word is such a sign of INTELLECT !
Powell doctrine is the ONE every astute military agrees with – clear entrance and exit strategy
and overhwelming force which Bush did not follow
You dare say Iraq was a good campagin?
even mccain says NOT!
President “President Hussein Obama”? Just call him “Rama” as it embraces his name, office and godhood.
How sad that after being against it all my life, to find out that there is nothing inherently wrong with racism. It just depends on who is doing it whether it is good or bad.
Race. Did The One mention he was black?
This will be a country that fulfills the measure of its intended greatness when a person of color can be defeated for the Presidency and no one mentions race. Until then, no person of color can be racist for voting his color and no white person can base a vote on color without being racist.
In all seriousness, I look forward to reading a posting by someone who can explain how any white politician from Chicago with Obama’s thin record could be nominated for President, much less leading in the polls.
Transcendent would be someone Obama simply can never be. He has had to be so infused with race and its privileges and immunities, that he can never rise above it. When he alludes to it, he really means that once he is elected, racism will recede with the oceans’ tides.
As my father-in-law would say to my very young children: “Say horseshit.”
Why would Barack Obama accept the endorsement of a former Bush administration official he presumably believes lied about WMD in Iraq?
What is the fount of Colin Powell’s celebrity? Is it media-assisted imaging?
If so, why be surprised when he courts media adulation, especially at a pivotal time when his media-massaged “image” has more alpha-appeal and more real-dollar selling power, than it probably ever will again.
But, if it is not, and if, instead, his celebrity springs from his resume of concrete accomplishments, then his disavowal of his colleague, John McCain’s right to serve instead of Obama is even more troubling.
My own opinion is, we all thought that JFK’s run was the model “for-television” Presidential campaign. 2008′s Obama/Media campaign machine has put that claim permanently to shame.
Good.
Obama should drop like a rock in the polls if America is the anti-Bush voters they clam to be.
That Colin Powell worked under George Bush, and now he supports Obama,
- does this indicate that Obama’s foreign policy is linked directly to Bush’s Foreign Policy?
Powell noted that one of the reasons for endorsing Obama is that he thinks that the Republican party has moved too far to the right. Apparently, the George Soros MoveOn General Betrayus base of the Democratic party is not too far left for the general. Powell has decided that Obama is going to win, so it is time for him bravely to jump on the wagon. It is a typically gutless decision by Powell.
the only thing that should be surprising about this is that anyone is surprised that Colin Powell did this…he’s spent his entire career promoting the career of Colin Powell…see also bandwagon, jump and sinking ship, rats…if the national polls were reversed, Powell’s endorsement would be as well…he makes Bill Clinton look steadfast and pure of heart.
I wonder about what the reaction of all these Powell critics would have been had he endorsed McCain.
Face it, it was a powerful endorsement, eloquently delivered.
#11 Bob: One affirmative action hire endorsing another. No news here.
Sarah Palin was not an AA hire? Really? The best possible Republican in the country to be VP? Better than Romney (whom I bet McCain wished he selected now to make his economic case), Guliani, etc? Experienced like a Libby Dole (who might need a new career after Nov. 4th) or Kay Baily Hutchinson?
Right.
1. Cynic:
Powell has historically been dishonest, and political.
Really? When has he been personally dishonest (as opposed to being directed to be dishonest, like at the UN)? Political? While in Washington or the Pentagon? Shocking.
17. Webrider:
Colin Powell has always been a timid warrior. His doctrine of overwhelming force is one example. Another example, is that he was against us kicking Hussein out of Kuwait. Remember that? I’ve always suspected that he was the prime reason that George Bush Sr. stopped the war instead of going on to Baghdad to finish Hussein at that time.
I guess Dick Cheney is a timid warrior too, or maybe Powell was just following orders. From the Seattle Post Intelligencer Sept. 4, 2004:
Dick Cheney more than a decade ago defended the decision to leave Saddam Hussein in power after the first Gulf War, telling a Seattle audience (in 1992) that capturing Saddam wouldn’t be worth additional U.S. casualties or the risk of getting “bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.”
“And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?” Cheney said then in response to a question.
“And the answer is not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president made the decision that we’d achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.”
Going to Baghdad, Cheney said in 1992, would require a much different approach militarily than fighting in the open desert outside the capital, a type of warfare that U.S. troops were not familiar, or comfortable fighting.
“All of a sudden you’ve got a battle you’re fighting in a major built-up city, a lot of civilians are around, significant limitations on our ability to use our most effective technologies and techniques,” Cheney said.
“Once we had rounded him up and gotten rid of his government, then the question is what do you put in its place? You know, you then have accepted the responsibility for governing Iraq.”
Sources:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/192908_cheney29.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/192828_joel29.html
If Powell had endorsed McCain I would have said “Good” but that is it. I still would not have cared for Powell. He like Obama is a transparent media creation.
“President Obama get used to it” someone posted. Socialism get used to it.
“first history” is busily cranking out those talking points.
We should be a bit more charitable towards General Powell. If he endorsed McCain he would face total social ostracism from almost all his friends and business associates. Furthermore, his wife wouldn’t like that. He might even receive death threats from oh-so-tolerant leftists. Even keeping quiet would not serve, since he is one of the most prominent black people in the country. Failure to endorse Obama would be tantamount to an endorsement of McCain. When 99 percent of black people are supporting Obama because he’s black it’s no time for a prominent man in public life (especially one who might want another position in new administration)to get the reputation of being a race traitor, and that is exactly what blacks and white liberals and leftists would call Powell if he came out for McCain.
Granted #34 is a talking point (apparently black leaders only come by that position through AA); but #35 is an honest request for information, as I have never heard of Powell’s dishonesty; and #36 is an attempt to correct the historical record, i.e. Powell wasn’t the only leader to oppose going after Saddam during the Gulf War I (I don’t even know what his position was on the issue).
But hey, the endorsement helps Obama more than it hurts McCain. I mean, McCain has Lawrence Eagleburger’s endorsement. That’s enough for me.
Good boy, “first history”. You’re doing such a good job. I am sure you are persuading many people here. Keep it up. You will be rewarded next year!
I hope to be rewarded Nov. 4.
I don’t care about Powell, nor Eagleburger, Brezinski, Albright, Kissinger, Baker, Christopher, and so forth. The American diplomat who towers above them all is George Shultz. He’s endorsing McCain. That’s enough for me.
Sarah Palin today: “Joe Biden calls higher taxes patriotic. But Joe the plumber and Ed the dairy man, I believe that they think that it sounds more like socialism. Friends, now is no time to experiment with socialism.”
Okay, technically she’s not a Republican party leader, and technically she’s calling Biden a socialist, not Obama, but still…
a little Plame memory for everyone…
Christopher Hitchens on Richard Armitage,
Powell’s #2 at State Dept:
_________________________________________
Plame Out
The ridiculous end to the scandal that distracted Washington.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Tuesday, Aug. 29, 2006, at 1:02 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2148555
Dick Stanley – You may be too old to remember this, but there was a long and honorable tradition of liberal Republicans (and conservative Democrats, too, even leaving aside the Dixiecrats that just couldn’t get over the Civil War – Joe Lieberman was the last of them, I think). I remember Powell saying in some interviews in the 90s that he was a Rockefeller Republican. Roger could no doubt fill you in on this. But the vicious polarization we have gotten into since 1968, and especially since 1980, has put an end to all that. The “politics of personal destruction” rules the roost now on both sides, and it is going to drag this country into the pit of civil war if we don’t all get a grip on ourselves. And however you evaluate Powell’s career, he is no more of a political sycophant than Alexander Haig was. (Anybody remember him?) But you apparently don’t mind poltically sycophantic generals as long as they are sucking up to the side you support. (Forgive me if I am wrong.)
Oops – I meant “too young.” Sorry about that.
Classic misdirection of inconvenient truths.
Democrat bugged Gingrich’s phone: MSM condemned Gingrich’s conversation.
Republican revealed Rockefeller’s conversation undermining the Iraq war: MSM condemned Republican’s sleaze.
Democrat hacked into Palin’s private email: MSM: Palin uses private emails, what has she to hide?
Sarah Palin: VP pick: MSM condemned her lack of experience.
Obama’s lack of accomplishments: MSM gushed about his hope and change.
Obama embarrassed by Joe the Plumber: MSM condemned Joe, hiding the inconvenient truth : spread the wealth.
May be that’s why conservatives cling to thir church hoping someone up there is on their side.
Anyone who followed the Libby case will realize that Powell is an adroit Washington insider who leaks to Woodward like an old faucet
and plays both ends to further and glamorize his self aggrandizement with the WashPo and Times and various seats on corporate boards.
So let’s count how many votes not already committed will this sway? This is Washpo/NYTimes/NBC three hour headline stuff.
“you are just insane with grief” “the GOP is dead and you guys killed it” “…get used to it”
Can we just freaking *vote* now? A 3 point lead and the trolls act like it’s gonna be 1980 in reverse. This thing will come right down to the finish line on the 4th.
As far as the Palin haters are concerned – specifically those on the right under the mistaken impression that she’s some huge detriment to this campaign and the party – she *is* the future of conservatism. You may not like it. You may pine for “gravitas” and whatnot, but she is going to be around for a long long time, and might even help McCain win this one yet. So try and suck it up a little. I could see if we were down 15 or 20, but come on….
At the same time that all of you – and John McCain – are suggesting that Barack Obama’s policies are socialist, one of the most conservative Republican administrations in American history is directly investing taxpayer money in private banks and an insurance company. Hard to see this attack working when its George Bush and Hank Paulson who are the ones acting like socialists!
Apparently, talk of Wright is the only thing that soothes folks on this site. I expect it to continue well into Obama’s first term. You will use all such talk to attempt to delegitimize an Obama presidency, should it come. Nice to see you’ve become the Kossacks frothing in their mothers’ basements, chanting, “2000 was stolen!” and “Downing Street Memo!”
Funny, I don’t recall nearly as much heat being on Joe Biden when he’s pimped his Catholicism in this campaign (he once kept a crucifix under his pillow, dontcha’ know), despite the church’s institutionalization of child abuse. And this isn’t one man in one parish, mind you. Yet Wright is the one you’d like to see arrested?
This is not a defense of Wright, though many will see it as such because it fits into your pre-cooked narrative: That all McCain supporters are forward thinkers on race, while all Obama supporters are evil, racialist, relativist paleoliberals.
Roger clearly thinks Obama and Wright are twins, else he wouldn’t continue to flog the story. It’s not Obama’s wobbliness on the matter that bothers Simon, not when Simon’s chosen candidate hasn’t always been eloquent when talking about his faith and his relationships with assorted religious fundamentalists, as well; not when the first Republican Simon endorsed this presidential season was married by a priest who shelters criminals. Simon knows that all politicians have uneven messages. So he brings up a relationship about which everyone already knows without adding any new facts to the mix. That way, he can smear the candidate he’s against while having plausible deniability (“Hey, I was just stating the facts!”) for it. Wright is a batty fundamentalist who cannot countenance disagreement with congregants. Argument ought to matter in faith communities. It shouldn’t be mocked, which is why Wright’s little public dance was so vile. Obama laid out, in a very public way with his Philadelphia speech, where he differs from Wright, but what bothers me about what is left of the anti-Obama crowd is their insistence that there are only two correct answers to that speech: that Obama never challenged Wright until he was forced to, and that Obama explicitly compared his grandmother to Wright, making the senator a a nutjob. On the first point, if Obama did not have serious differences with Wright about race, he surely wouldn’t have challenged the toxic black nationalist congressman Bobby Rush to a primary, which Obama lost for not being black enough, and, in the U.S. senate race, he would’ve run as a fringe protest candidate in the Rush mold. He didn’t. In fact, Alan Keyes was so insane in that race that the National Review declined to endorse him. On the second matter, concerning Obama’s grandmother, very few of you seem to be able to accept that there are degrees of prejudice on every end of the racial divide, and Obama might just be grappling with them all (Obama’s grandmother’s fear of black men, while minor compared to Wright’s yelling, could understandably sting any black man just minding his business and trying to stay out of trouble.). Heck, the Politico has run a story about openly racist rural whites who are nonetheless voting for Obama because of their material interests. Perhaps these voters are onto something.
(http://tinyurl.com/5k6xsq)
Finally, there is, in fact, an effort afoot to turn Obama into a terrorist. A McCain campaign robocall begins thusly: “You need to know that Barack Obama worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers.” Not “worked on non-profits with,” just “worked closely with” Ayers, as though they collaborated in acts of domestic terrorism. Bringing up Ayers is fine. It’s hardball. But if you’re going to do it, use some freaking facts.
You will call me a “troll” or “partisan kool-aid drinker” who wrote a “lengthy screed.” Whatever.
This blog is great in that it provides much to argue with, and occasionally, the blogger is correct on Iraq. But the campaign coverage over here is remarkably favorable to the Republican candidate, and as long as Roger continues this one-sided coverage without honestly admitting that he is now a Republican, holding the line on every issue but two social ones, he ought to be called out.
# 39 HAS IT RIGHT REGARDING POWELL , THE LAST THING THIS COUNTRY NEEDS IS A CIVIL RACE WAR. IT WILL DO NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE WASHINGTON SCREW-UP AND THE WALL STREET CEO’S RAPE OF OUR ECONOMY. IF McCain DOES NOT GET THE PRESIDENCY WE WILL SPEND THE NEXT TWO TO FOUR YEARS IN FINANCIAL LIMBO AND IF Obama FAILS HIS QUICK TURN AROUND FOR HIS FOLLOWERS WE WILL SEE CHANGES IN BOTH HOUSES
DURING HIS FIRST TERM AND HOPEFULLY HE WILL BECOME A SECOND ONE TERM DEMO PRESIDENT. THERE ARE LESSONS TO BE LEARNESA ND I HOPE WE ALL DO.
I would add that any comparison of the United Church of Christ to, say, the Christian identity movement, while probably easy for many on this blog to make, is simply illogical.
Wright should-and, in my Liberal Lutheran estimation, will-face God over some of the more noxious lies he spread, but he did extend his service to non-blacks. Again, this does not excuse what he said from the pulpit, but TUCC did not exclude, and has not excluded, non-blacks.
The United Church of Christ, rather, is a wing of Protestantism that is too doctrinaire left for my Yankee Dem tastes. Many predominately white UCC churches have come out supporting Wright, and the likes of Bill Moyers gave him a soft landing. All this means they’re simply wrong on philosophical grounds, and that the comparisons to Neo-Nazis do not hold water.
Jay,
I won’t call you a “troll” etc., but you are a crashing bore.
After reading some of the comments in this thread it has occurred to me that if Obama loses the vote on Nov. 4th we could see a wave of suicides that would shock the world, reduce U.S. population, and alter demographics until the end of time. All because certain parties have invested so much into Barack’s triumph. McCain wins those on the left will lose any justification for their continued existence.
the fact that Obama is making so much from this endorsement suggests he still has insecurities regarding his ability. as he felt when he chose Biden.
No Alan, we won’t see a wave of suicides if Obama loses. We’ll see violent protest. Remember the rioting after the Rodney King verdict? Only this time it will be nationwide and the rioters will be people on the left of all races. They will insist that the race was stolen and the election was illegitimate, and McCain’s win will only confirm their delusional view of America as a racist, fascist, imperialist nation. It will be hellish. The media will fan the flames. I sincerely hope that you are right and I am wrong. But I know I’m not.
Jay, you are the one with the pre-cooked narrative. Bully for you that you think Wright will face God for his lies. I’m an atheist. I want justice now. That means someone who chose Wright as his spiritual mentor for his entire adult life, and only distanced himself from him when he was forced to in order to salvage his presidential ambitions, is NOT qualified to be the president of the United States. The rest of his qualifications frankly are irrelevant. Just as if McCain spent his entire adult life with a vile spewing white supremacist as his spiritual mentor, he too would automatically be disqualified, regardless of his war hero status, his Iraq war surge advocacy or anything else.
Jay
I got one word for you: Paragraphs
“A McCain campaign robocall begins thusly: “You need to know that Barack Obama worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers.” Not “worked on non-profits with,” just “worked closely with” Ayers, as though they collaborated in acts of domestic terrorism. Bringing up Ayers is fine. It’s hardball. But if you’re going to do it, use some freaking facts.”
OK, here’s some freaking facts. Barack Obama worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers, who still thinks he didn’t bomb enough, to flush down the toilet more than 50 million dollars on cockamamie educational schemes that attempted to pursue revolution and undermine the system from within. Meanwhile, remedial algebra programs were rejected.
Two million dollars of that money wound up in one of Ayers’s own projects.
They ultimately admitted that their investments had no positive effect whatsoever.
This work is still the only executive experience Barack Obama has ever had.
The US budget is one trillion dollars. His background does not give me confidence that he will be a good steward of that money.
Were Barack Obama applying for a job with the State Department, for example, his association with Ayers might well prevent him from receiving a security clearance. But he wants to be president.
Are these facts freaking enough for you?
P.S.: Bringing up Bill Ayers isn’t even remotely hardball. It’s just a combination of “Let’s look at the record” and “Birds of a feather”.
Powell is a political general who fights his wars with Washington leaks. The endorsement will hurt him more than McCain because it confirms a lot of things that were suspected. If he had endorsed McCain, it would have been counterintuitive and therefore much more interesting. That fact that it was so weak makes it of little benefit to Obama.
The principle focus of the Obama campaign now, and we see it in the trolls, is to convince Republicans that the race is over and Obama won. They want to depress the Republican turnout. We will see more and more of this, just as AP today ran a story about how all the polls showed Obama far ahead but with NO NUMBERS from the polls.
The timing of Powell’s endorsement, and the shallow reasons, have destroyed whatever respect I had remaining for the General. This is an Obama October surprise, and Powell is the villain.
This isn’t just an endorsement. It is a stab in the back to McCain. It also looks opportunist – wait until the winner looks pretty clear, and then cast in your lot with him.
Colin Powell is an embarrassment.
Powell is a gutless wonder, he waits until two weeks away from the election (when all the MSM are predicting a win for The One) before he endorses Obama. Talk about playing it safe !
Also , thanks to Peter G for saying it first….
“Jay, I won’t call you a “troll” etc., but you are a crashing bore.”
Politics is war by other means. Socialist want their supporters to have stuff that they want. Houses, cars, rims, and so forth. 95% of Blacks are supporting Obama, because he is Black, and will give them things.
Now, the denizens of East St. Louis, Detroit, Chicago could all go to any Home Depot and buy the tools, materials and books to build any house they want. But they don’t, because they are lazy. Or they could work like the Vietnamese, Bahamian, or many others and earn the money. But they don’t( see explanation 1.)
So, they give their vote for goods and services. Since by and large the government doesn’t have a special magical warehouse full of goodies, these goods and services will have to be taken from those that have them. Usually this is called raiding, theft or more formally, Socialism.
Being one of those Joe types, and having physically built my own house (because I went to Harvard Law, and my Whitey dad was a good little puppet to Zionists malefactors of great wealth, don’t ‘cha know?) I see the Socialists as my domestic enemies, and I see their partners in crime likewise. Every dollar in taxes comes from my kids mouths, from their education, from my precious vacations with them while they are still young, and I am healthy. You don’t want to know the thoughts I have towards those that take this from me.
By the way, I think the GOP is a bunch of pukes too. GW has not been a disappointment as he has done poorly as I expected, but not as worse as Kerry would of. The same dynamic is occurring with Obama/McCain.
Both seem to accurately represent the nation in it’s split. A delusional, welfare army mob, with a symbol manipulating sophist leadership, vs a symbol manipulating sophist leadership supporting a network of mercantile corportists.
Other than that, I am enjoying this circus of human mutants.
There’s a lot about Colin Powell I admire (I was hoping to vote for him for president in 1996), but I have to agree with John Moore. The reasons Powell gave for voting for Obama were shallow and nonsensical.
The GOP is too far right? Well then, shouldn’t McCain be rewarded for bringing it back to the center?
Palin is too inexperienced? She’s more experienced then Obama.
Republican Supreme Court appointments scare him? Well, they will have to get by a Democratic Senate, now won’t they?
When you cut away all Powell’s BS, what you’re left with is “an African American president would be electrifying.” Maybe so, but what a cowardly thing he did pretending that these other reasons are the real ones.
anyone writing about rev. wright and obama should listen to obama’s speech about wright and his (obama’s) reasons for going to his church, etc. i think it is first of all a mark of character that obama did not immediately disassociate himself from wright, did not try to make the relationship less than it was, and did directly address the things that wright said. he explained clearly the things wright said and the problems that a lot of white people have with it, and with larger discussions of race in the US.
i think the underlying thing that many people don’t like about obama going to wright’s church and being close to him is that it points to criticism of america. there is a fundamental problem with us as americans if we see it as unamerican to be critical of the country. and i think it is clear that 1) obama does believe in america and what it stands for and 2) that any criticism he has, he believes that the american system of democracy, what we believe in and what is great about this country, can solve it. and that is what we should want. what we should worry about is someone who hates, rather than criticizes, the US, and wants to overthrow the government. it is very clear that obama doesn’t want to do either of these things.
and, there is nothing wrong with admitting imperfection as a country. we would be a better country if we could look at places for improvement and work on them.
Shame on you, Steph. Wright is a racist and a reactionary. That is not criticism of our country, which is obviously fine and welcome. That is cynical exploitation of the poor for his own advantage. Repellent in every way and the fact that you cannot make a differentiation is a sad reflection on you. Oprah herself left Wright’s church EIGHT YEARS BEFORE because she realized this problem. Obama remained because he is a “pol” to the core. Perhaps he is your “pol” – that’s fine. You’re entitled. But to think he is more than that is foolish and misleading.
Wow, I thought the Dems acted like spoiled kids after 2000… are you all serious in your comments? I mean, its not even possible to take most of these comments seriously anymore. *sigh*
Here’s Powell on ABC speaking of Wright and Obama’s duplicitous defense of Wright:
“…I think that Senator Obama handled the issue well. He didn’t– he didn’t look the other way. He didn’t wait for the– for the, you know, for the storm to go over…
“…Rev. Wright is also somebody who has made enormous contributions in his community and has turned a lot of lives around. And so, I have to put that in context with these very offensive comments
“…I think that Sen. Obama handled the issue well . . . he didn’t look the other way. He didn’t wait for the, for the, you know, for the storm to go over. He went on television, and I thought, gave a very, very thoughtful, direct speech. And he didn’t abandon the minister who brought him closer to his faith…”
Recall that this Powell comment is regarding the first Obama response during which which Obama insisted he could no more abandon his pastor than he could abandon his own family.
Note the General’s ready acceptance that Wright “made enormous contributions in his community and has turned a lot of lives around.”
The same sort of defense is made regularly for Calypso Joe Farrakhan. The General aint big on metrics or quantification. Hatred of Whites, Jews and America are all justifiable for gangster “ministers” helping their “communities.”
The worst of it is that the help to the “communities” (what portion of it isn’t pocketed by one “holyness” or another) is inevitably in the form of hard-working taxpayer dollars funneled to the crooked “ministers” by gutless and corrupt politicians.
America is being sold out to the lowest bidders with the least credit. What Obama calls “spreading the wealth around.” And General Powell, who has made a career of stepping and fetching for the Republican party is all for it.
After decades of faithfully grovelling, the four-star hound has finally seen an opportunity to turn on his masters and bite the hand that feeds him.
to roger l. simon: did you read or listen to obama’s speech on it? if you did, let me know what you think of his points specifically. calling me, and wright, racist and whatever else is easy and doesn’t make any contribution to the discussion.
This endorsement shows that there is a good reason his first name is pronounced “colon”.
Steph, the problem with Rev. Wright is not that he criticizes America. The problem is that he exploits and harms the African American population that he purports to help. That is why Oprah Winfrey left his church. She recognizes that a victim mentality is destroying the black community. Her life story proves how the opposite mentality leads to success. Wright has a vested interest in keeping the black community as a perpetual underclass. That is how he enriches himself. It’s tragic and horrible and Obama is certainly smart enough to recognize that. But instead, he too chose to profit politically from the association with Wright to gain credibility with the African American constituency in Chicago and support from the corrupt Chicago political machine which also profits from keeping the poor in poverty.
And Colin Powell knows all of this too. Shame on him.
Powell’s hobby is restoring old Volvos. This explains a lot.
We won’t see a wave of violent protests if McCain-Palin loses. Remember the rise of anti-government, “patriotic” private militias during the Clinton years? This time it will be an even bigger phenomenon with the inclusion of rabid racists. They will insist that the election was stolen – that Obama’s win will only confirm their delusional view of America as a suicidal multicultural, politically-correct, welfare-based socialist nation. It will be hellish, with the right-wing blogs and talk radio fanning the flames. I sincerely hope I am wrong – but we know I’m not.
Steph, it’s a mark of character to wait until someone becomes politically inconvenient to get rid of them? How so? Don’t forget, in addition to sittingin his pew for very long time, Obama made not one, but TWO speeches about Wright. In the first one, he said Wright was family, like his grandmother and he would no sooner dump Wright than he would his grandmother. Then he made a second speech dumping Wright.
jeremiah, as is typical of liberals, you know absolutely nothing about conservatives. Let me spare you the suspense: you are wrong.
“I sincerely hope I am wrong – but we know I’m not.”
ahhh,the royal “we”.
it’s ok,jeremiah.
“we know what’s best for you”.
Colin Powell is not “a person of gravitas,” he’s a person of affirmatas.
jeremiah: Allow me to take a break from sharpening my pitchfork long enough to join Tim in disabusing you of the notion that conservatives are one defeat away from going wild in the streets. We have jobs, businesses, purpose, and principles. We respect the rule of law and electoral results – yes, even the ones that don’t go our way. We are not “rabid racists” waiting for our marching orders, so buy yourself a clue.
Incidentally, this may rock your narrow worldview, but there are actually black republicans out there. Most of whom – including Colin Powell’s own son – disagree with Sen. Obama’s political views, as is their right as free-thinking Americans.
You may resume hurling stock progressive accusations – I need to get back to being productive now.
I’m confused. So, the militias of the 1990′s were fictional?
Was Annabel’s comment: “We’ll see violent protest. [...] Only this time it will be nationwide and the rioters will be people on the left of all races” a stock conservative accusation?
The militias of the ’90′s were largley fictional. To the extent they were real, they were mostly guys who liked to run around the woods in fatigues on the weekends. Very very few marginal characters were dangerous. Annabel’s comment was a bit overwrought in my opinion, but based on experience. She was not referring to the behavior of people whose chosen candidate loses, she was referring to some liberals whose chosen candidate loses. The “crazy” factor on the left runs much higher than on the right.
Jeremiah, my comment was in response to Alan Kellog’s, in which he suggested the far left response to an Obama loss would be a high rate of suicide. I believe the reaction from extremists would be the opposite. Rather than giving up,they would refuse to acknowledge defeat. You think I’m wrong and Alan is right?
Your analysis Annabel is on the mark. Religious leaders such as Rev. Wright use whatever means to enrich their way of life while actually decreasing the
member’s of their churche’s savings accts. The church decons and staff tend to do their bidding and funds are not used to improve the standard of life for
the membership. Each Sunday they are told they must give more and more they give while being told the reason their lives are in such a depressed state is
caused by the greediness of outside forces. It is not these forces that are asking them to shell out fundds each week and getting no help to improve their
lives, as the funds are used for trips, parties, junkets for the church elders etc. In other word’s the money is not being ‘SPREAD AROUND” to improve any one’s life but their own. Sen. Obama is not using part of the 150.000.000.00 to help the needy in this country, it is being used to insure the newspapers and TV stations improve & insure he becomes the next Pres. of our country, a country that is a Rainbow of Colors.
This afternoon Sen. Obama said Colin Powell will have a place on his staff, so guess that tells the story of this late political announcement. Also, now at the last weeks they have come up with the story to gain the jewish vote of Michelle’s relative in Chicago’s South Side that is a Rabbi, what next?
Agree regarding the overblown rhetoric about militias in the Clinton years. They were a number of small groups largely in the upper Rockie Mountain region. Their beef was largely with the heavy handed tactics of the FBI at Ruby Ridge and Janet Reno’s violation of the Posse Comitatus principle in incinerating the Branch Davidians in Waco. Those were heated times and overreaction was very likely. If you added up the sum total of all the hardcore White Supremist militias, Christian Identity, etc., it would scarcely be a blip on the screen next to..say the size of the crowd of looters in the Rodney King riots. Or a more apt comparison, it would be similar in size but far less destructive than
the Weathermen. The chances of riots on the right if Obama wins are slim to none. The odds of left wing rioting if McCain wins are almost certain.
I knew Powell was a two-faced, arrogant hypocrite in 1996 when my most liberal/insane friends said they’d vote for him over Clinton.
When my boss, who ONLY gets his news from MSNBC, praised Powell incessantly in 2004 during the Iraq War, I knew Powell was a schmuck who’d be leaving the “good side” soon eough.
Powell is a racist as he is with Obama only due to race. That is the definition. He’s no better than any other black supporting BHO just b/c he’s black.
While everybody is slinging dispersions I will sling one at Powell’s combat record. He served in a command position in the Americal Division in Viet Nam. They were pretty much unanimously ranked as the worst American division in that war.. One of their units perpetrated the My Lai
massacre although before Powell’s time. During his tenure they were a largely combat ineffective unit with morale problems, racial strife, insubordination under fire and other issues. Powell did not get his stars through merit but through politics and affirmative action.
Hey Trangbang, I thought we went around once on the Americal already? “Unanimously ranked as the worst American division in that war”, ehh,?
Again, how would you know? The Americal’s area of operations (AO), the furthest north of any regular unit of the US Army (excepting a mechanized infantry outfit up on the DMZ, who probably seldom got off the road and out of their tracks) was possibly the most challenging AO at the height of ground war: wall to wall booby-traps and snipers, primary entry points into RVN of the Ho Chi Minh trail(s), plenty of NVN main force units, extremnely difficult terrain (only place in S. VN where the mountain range separating VN from Laos actually extends all the S. China sea coast.
Regarding Powell’s “command position”… he was a 2nd Lt. platoon (20-40 troops, depending on combat losses) leader, one of probably 300 such in the entire division.
Stop beating this one to death, Trang!
I’m chastened. I thought Powell had a more senior rank. I do need to let the Americal go. No doubt lots of brave men.Sorry for casting dispersions.
Good for Powell! It was high time he stopped carrying water for the white oppresors and renounce his Uncle Tomism.
Plus, we will need a few good generals to make sure The Change led by the “Transformational Figure” proceeds without right-wingers trying to subvert it.
Appreciate the climbdown, Trang, but the word is “aspersions”…
BTW, I just came back to Chicago exurbs from a small Americal reunion in Fairbanks AK, followed by a potlatch in our honor mounted by the Upper Tanana band of Athabascans, in Northway AK (our platoon sniper Chief Sherman –who I never saw shoot anybody or anything– was one of them). It made the local press. All kinds of people, may of them serving- or ex-military, were coming up to the geezer VN vets from the lower 48, and thanking us from the heart for being “heroes” in ’68-69. Not quite the correct hit, but you get the idea.
Powell’s endorsement of Ob is racism. Understandable, but still racism. Howard Stern had some “man on the street” interviews with Harlem residents who insisted that their vote for Ob was for his policies, yet, when McCain policy (pro-life) was described as Ob’s, and VP selection (Palin) was described as Ob’s, they all enthusiastically endorsed them. Racism.
I wouldn’t be so quick to deny the potention for domestic violence of the non-marital sort if Ob wins. It won’t be over his election, but future actions. He was a director on the board of the Joyce Foundation, and if he follows his inclination (despite all his present protestations to the contrary), we’ll see another heavy handed BATF**kup which will create a few more McVeighs.
Powell’s endorsement is self-preservation.
He is buying immunity from war-crimes prosecution.
You think the Obamacrats _won’t_ conduct a witch-hunt against everyone in the Bush administration associated with the war? And Powell as SoS at the time could easily be roped in. This way he has bought some cover, and can probably get off by testifying for the prosecution about how he was lied to by those evil neocons.
I’ll say this much – I don’t think he’d have done this if he thought McCain had a decent chance.
Steph, First History, Jeremiah, Nick & Jay
I appreciate your commentary on this thread, because clearly you are the voice of reason. If any earnest Republicans out there want to know why their party has difficulty attracting non-whites, they just simply need to read this thread.
For example:
>>>11. Bob:
“One affirmative action hire endorsing another. No news here.”
Oct 19, 2008 – 10:45 am
>>>20. Paul from Florida:
“Obama, Powell. The rise of the affimitive action Princes.”
Oct 19, 2008 – 12:17 pm
Message to Non-Whites? No matter what you work hard and achieve in this country, you will be forever suspect in the eyes of White Republicans.
And here:
>>>”65. Paul from Florida:
“Politics is war by other means. Socialist want their supporters to have stuff that they want. Houses, cars, rims, and so forth. 95% of Blacks are supporting Obama, because he is Black, and will give them things.”
Oct 20, 2008 – 8:49 am
Other than sounding ridiculous, I would love for Paul to explain the Black vote in past elections:
1984 Walter Mondale 90% Ronald Reagan 9%
1988 Michael Dukakis 90% George H.W. Bush 10%
1992 Bill Clinton 83% George H.W. Bush 10%
1996 Bill Clinton 84% Bob Dole 12%
2000 Al Gore 90% George W. Bush 9%
2004 John Kerry 88% George W. Bush 11%
Pssst…Paul–those are all White people up there. Most African-Americans vote for Democrats, Paul. Apparently, as Colin Powell found out, we’re only welcome in the GOP as long as blindly obey extreme right winged orthodoxy.
Actually, the bait is out there, my conservative friends. Go ahead and play Ashley Todd– http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/24/mccain-campaign-volunteer-admits-alleged-attack-hoax/ — and try to use Jeremiah Wright against Obama in these last 10 days.
I double-dog dare the GOP. It will be a worse beating than it’s already gonna be, and on election night, I’ll be in bed by 9:05 PM.
–Cobra
I think we better fear the people behind Sen. Obama more than him. He will end up taking orders just as most have done in the past 30 years or more. I as a previous Demo, now Indie, remember the “Power’s that Be” promised a democratic general the presidency if he changed parties , he did and he
became a Republican President. Now we have a young Sen. that has set goals for himself & his wife with the use of questionable people in his past &
present path of ambition and we seem to feel it is ok to look the other way. The citizen’s of this country need to investigate why our school education has been in such a decline since the 60′s & 70″s, and question why the Ayer’s family seemed to take control of large sums needed to change the educational system by rewriting books used to educate our children. Check out the wording and changes they made if you can still find some old books.
Does anyone remember early TV when women of the black community started using hair colors and make-up to improve their already great looks? I do
and it was people of color that condemed them of trying to be white , we have come a long way since that period and we have away to go but it need not
be ugly and destructive. I think Sen. McCain was so very right in telling us to listen carefully to the words, check out and decipher truth from fiction. We all love fiction but we can not hope to servive without truth.