I’m opposed to guilt-by-association. I’d better be, considering at various times in my life I hung out with the California Communist League, the Black Panthers including Eldridge Cleaver and their Minister of Information Elaine Brown, Abbie Hoffman while he was a fugitive on the top ten wanted list, Bill and Emily Harris of the SLA, Timothy Leary and Chairman Deng Xiaoping of the People’s Republic of China. I was also recruited by the KGB. (Don’t worry. I turned them down.)
I’m not going into the details here. [Blatant self-promotion alert] You can read all about them in my memoir BLACKLISTING MYSELF to be published by Encounter Books in January 2009. Suffice it to say if there were guilt-by-association, I’d be in deep trouble.
But….
1. I am not running for President.
2. I am not trying to hide my past associations. [You’re trying to sell books off them.-ed. Indeed I am.]
I’ve been thinking about the latter point reading the various reports of Barack Obama’s relationship with former Weatherman Bill Ayers. No, I didn’t know Ayers. So I have no personal knowledge of this. But I am troubled by the “cone of silence” around the details of their association, including the “cones” erected by the University of Illinois and the Daley machine that has, despite moments of reform, made the city of Chicago synonymous with corruption in many people’s eyes.
Still, I have nothing to add to that story, which may reveal itself, as the saying goes, in the fullness of time. But I do have some feelings about past associations and what they mean from personal experience. Like it or not, to one degree or another, they are part of our fabric, though not in a simple-minded sense. Knowing communists in the past obviously does not make you one now, or then, for that matter. Nevertheless, the 1972 Roger Simon who gave money to the Black Panthers is a building block of the 2008 Roger Simon who now despises identity politics and thinks it a reactionary betrayal of black people. That past is part of my emotional and intellectual DNA. If I hid that from you, you would not understand my present, where it comes from and what it means. You would be missing important context with which to analyze my current views.
The same goes for Obama, only his past is being shrouded by the institutions and cronies above. No matter what the truth is, this obfuscation makes it worse. Indeed, the obfuscation is the problem, in itself probably worse than almost any possible fact being hidden. (Obama is far too young to have been a Weatherman himself anyway—and, I suspect, far too great a careerist.) As usual, the cover-up is apparently more serious than the crime.
And yet, what if… arguendo… there is something significant buried in those unreleased Chicago documents that is finally revealed after Obama is elected President? The fallout could be highly destructive to our country. (And people thought John Edwards running while having an affair was problematic…) In an era that is at once domestically polarized and internationally dangerous, those Chi-town institutions owe it to us to be as transparent as possible. If past history is an indication, they won’t.
I think someone needs to explain to me the difference between William Ayers and the Unabomber. Maybe it’s just that one of those two managed to find the right friends.
“Maybe it’s just that one of those two managed to find the right friends.”
That is an excellent point. Indeed, Bill Ayers and the Unabomber are equally unrepentant and hostile towards America. The only reason that the former gentleman failed to get a long jail sentence is because of the errors committed by the authorities made prosecution impossible. Nonetheless, the evidence is overwhelming—and Ayers openly brags about his terrorist past.
Roger, I seem to recall that you expressed similar reluctance regarding Obama’s relationship with Jeremiah Wright.
I mention it because have some experience as a quality inspector, and in that profession, there’s a saying: “Fluke, flag, fault.” In other words, if you see something amiss once, consider it a fluke. See a similar problem twice, set a flag in your brain to be on the lookout for a trend. Find it a third time, and you give a “fault” on the inspection.
Were Ayers to be Obama’s only weird association, I could give it a pass; like most people, I’ve got some things in my own past that don’t make me look too good. But in addition to Ayers, you’ve got Tony Rezko. And Jeremiah Wright. All this before leaving Chicago city limits.
On the other hand, who are the great positive influences in his life? His mother, maybe? But she had a lifelong association with genuine weirdos. His “typical white person” grandmother? Who else? (I didn’t read his books, so that’s not a rhetorical question.) Is there some Mother Teresa in there someplace?
To sum up, there’s more than guilt by association – there doesn’t seem to be any innocence by association, either.
Scott
It is not just about what Ayers did or thinks. It is about his being in a position to spread his thinking throughout our educational system. Obama worked with him on an education reform project in Chicago. Did Obama share Ayers’s views? Does he now? We know that Obama wants to spend more on education. Will Ayers’s thinking influence how Obama chooses to spend our money? If there is one consistency in Obama’s political background, it is a tendency to throw a lot of money at problems and then move on.
So you see no difference between you giving money and support to the Panthers at the height of their crimes and Obama having a “relationship” with Bill Ayers YEARS after he has given up Weatherman tactics and has been assimilated back into the University of Chicago community?
Sally/David – In almost all uses, the phrase “part of the power structure” is metaphorical, and to answer your question about Mr. Ayers, it is certainly that. The hilarity beyond irony aspect, though, is it is literally true in his case as well.
There’s a long and very well known local history, included in Mr. Ayers own biographical writings, as well as statements from all the other parties (most recently Mayor Daley) reflecting on various facts involving Mr. Ayers father, the longtime executive and former CEO of Commonwealth Edison, the power company here in Chicagoland.
Don’t know if you know any or all of this, but it courses through “the power structure” here, and both preceded Bill Ayers, and will succeed him – hopefully only metaphorically.
The difference is that Simon probably had these associations back in his younger days – lets say a significant gap of years before now. Whereas Obama has these associations – Wright, Ayers, Rezko – during his mature and present years. Its one thing to write of youthful naivete, its another to continue to practice it while running for POTUS and CIC. Think about that. Being CIC is where the rubber meets the road in executive power. You know like nukes and such!
Simply put, the only difference between Al Qaida and the folks Bill Ayers used to hang out with is the latter managed to blow up only themselves.
Being inept makes them no less malevolent.
The main thing to remember is that Obama is the WAR candidate (Wright, Ayers, Rezko). Those three associations are sum and substance of this Chicago hack. From the information available about Obama and the Chicago Annenberg Challenge grants, it can be surmised that the records will show a politically targeted stream of payoffs to leftist fellow travelers with no discernible improvement in the education of the ostensible beneficiaries.
Roger – I have the greatest respect for those who come to their deeply held convictions through trial and error over long experience. It is a mark of both passion and wisdom, and of maturity. To paraphrase the adage: one who is not liberal in their youth has no heart and who is not conservative in later life has no brain. I would be willing to forgive Obama’s unwise associations with Ayers and Wright, and even Rezko, if they were past evidence of a growing wisdom that acknowledges and repudiates folly. Instead, we see a calculated and immature cover up of continuing associations with fools, criminals, and socialists. I can only conclude that Obama has neither passion nor reason.
I am of course interested in what the Annenberg documents might reveal, but as The Perfessor sez, they’re in Chicago, so they’ve probably already been either disappeared or at least sanitized.
I think the larger point, and one I’ve seen made only sparingly elsewhere, is that the man seems singularly incapable of making wise decisions with respect to his personal and political associates. Select, repudiate, rowback. Lather, rinse, repeat, with no mea culpae necessary because a doting press selectively covers the candidacy. Obama’s behaviour suggests a serious lack of judgment.
In fairness, McCain is no saint in this respect either (the Keating 5, for example); few politicians on the national stage are. I would assert, however, that Obama’s matriculation in Chicago politics is indicative.
‘Berg
I’m not sure how this piece even relates to Obama.
This isn’t a “past association,” Obama recently worked with the man and has given no indication they don’t share the same hate America politics. Further, Obama actually launched his political career at an event at Ayers’s (and Dohrn’s) home.
Finally, Obama is lying about said association.
These things are not at all analogous to your past Roger.
Some forms of guilt by association are wrong, some are perfectly legit. As the saying goes “by his friends shall ye know him”. I think it’s a great sign to have friends of varying views, and all it says about me is that I am open minded, tolerant, and interested in variety. But if many of my friends think along a particular line, it says something about the way I think. And when I am friends with violent criminals, it says something about my views on violence in furtherance of a cause.
No matter what my other qualities, there are some sorts of people I shouldn’t be firneds with just on principal and if I am, it says something about my principals.
groucho marx:
“These, sir, are my principles. If you don’t like them . . . I have others…”
Sally: “I think someone needs to explain to me the difference between William Ayers and the Unabomber. Maybe it’s just that one of those two managed to find the right friends”.
Really? You need someone to explain to you the difference between an evil, hypocritical political monster and an evil, insane sociopath? All people associated with bombs look alike to you?
I don’t know if this counts as a disclaimer or as a related thought that I forgot, but I have many friends who used to be criminals. What they did in the past is not so important as who they are now. I would be fine with Obama befriending Ayers if Ayers repented his past, but since he still embraces his old ways, it is as if Obama is friends with a current terrorist, not merely a former one.
I dunno, jblog. Al Quedans seem to blow themselves up with regularity.
Let’s add it up:
Daley
Ayers/Dornan
Rezko
Wright
Johnson
Who’s on the other side of the equation to balance them out?
It goes beyond Obama being a friend of Ayres. Ayres was a mentor and Ayres’ past is well known in Chicago. His wife, Bernadine Dohrn, was also notorious both because she was beautiful and because she was the most vicious of the Weathermen. There was a similar figure in the German terrorist group Red Army Faction. The fact that Ayres father was rich and influential was the principle difference between him and Ted Kaczynski. Kaczynski is far more intelligent than Ayres but came from a modest family and had a brother who turned him in. Ayres family aided and abetted him but they were all protected by their connections with Daley.
Ayers isn’t the issue. Ayers is a professor who engaged in a Vietnam War protest and now everyone is acting like the guy is a mass murderer. Typical right wing smear job on anyone who dares not fall in line with the Republican lies.
Bush’s illegal war on Iraq and his removal of our Constitutional rights are why we need Obama as President. As soon as Obama is elected with 75% of the vote, you watch how many people suddenly re-appear from Gitmo and the other CIA secret prisons that Bush, Cheney, Haliburton, and Blackwater run. Plus, Obama will stop Bush’s old cronies from continuing to rip us off and gas will be back to $1.10 a gallon after Obama hits them hard with the windfall profits tax. The oil companies are behind smearing Obama and Ayers so that they can keep gas prices high. If McCain is elected, you watch how Ayers all of a sudden disappears, which is hy you never hear anyone criticize Bush or McCain, because people are afraid they’ll get thrown into Gitmo and tortured as well.
I went to De Anza when Eldridge Cleaver was doing community service there. We had a sculpture class together. Very tall, charismatic guy – but not much of a sculptor. Glad I got to meet him. I always liked his “better to be in prison in American than free in Algeria” comment. No wonder he was hated by the “community”.
The problem with Obama’s associations is their recency. Roger’s Communist and Black Panthers associations were back in the 1970s. Because there is a great distance of time between 1972 Roger and 2008 Roger, he can credibly claim to have had a change of heart — essentially “purging” himself of the association.
Obama can’t do that. Obama bought the house with Rezko in what, 2005? And had a 20 year association with Rev. Wright that terminated only when the media called him on it in March 2008. And had a long standing relationship with Ayers and Dohrn, including serving on a radical board with Ayers until 2002. So when you look at how long these associations lasted, and you look at their relatively recent termination (if at all), it looks terribly insincere…
Bottom line: Obama can’t throw all these people under the bus, sigh about how they were not the people he thought he knew, and then enjoy a salad made with Whole Foods’ freshest arugula.
Aside from not repenting his past, Ayers had the magnificently hideous timing to reaffirm his belief that his actions were just on the pages of The New York Times on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001. A juxtaposition of statements to events like that should have made William radioactive politically to anyone except for the most loyal of supporters, who stayed with the man either out of friendship and/or a belief that there really wasn’t anything that bad about Ayers’ statement to support his book.
So while there may be something noble about Obama refusing to abandon a supporter who was something of a pariah in the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, sticking with Ayers as he’s unapologetic in the wake of those events at the very least calls Obama’s judgment of personal character into question.
The difference between the unabomber and Ayers is that the former had a brother who respected the rule of law enough to turn his brother in and the latter’s daddy, CEO of ComEd, sheltered him away from the law.
Ayers is the Brad Pitt character in 12 Monkeys. Wonder if Obama is Bruce Willis…
“I would be willing to forgive Obama’s unwise associations with Ayers and Wright, and even Rezko, if they were past evidence of a growing wisdom that acknowledges and repudiates folly. Instead, we see a calculated and immature cover up of continuing associations with fools, criminals, and socialists. I can only conclude that Obama has neither passion nor reason.”
I was about to add something to your list, such as 3) You’re willing to discuss your past and even repudiate it. Obama is trying to hide it.
However, Nate said it concisely, so I’ll repeat his words instead (and add mine as well; how’s that for passive-aggressive posting?).
So was that picture of Ayers trampling on an American flag on the floor taken before or after his professional and personal association with Obama.
The answer is after.
The rap against Clinton was that he had many friends and associates in Ark. who were indicted for felonies. Most people go through life without any felonious friends. The fact that Clinton hung out with such a seedy crowd was not proof of guilt but definitely showed a kind of moral laissez faire. Indeed, in the sale of pardons, the Monica affair, etc. he showed that dark clouds are more typical of rain than sunshine….The fact that Obama has so many people in his life who are deeply skeptical about the virtues of America is not proof of a lack of patriotism, but it is certainly not reassuring. A black intellectual may have many reasons to doubt the promises and pleasures of America but that is not what you want in an American President. I would hope for the President to be as tolerant of some Marine general homophobe as Obama was of Wright. That’s not fair, but that’s what I want in a President……Incidentally, the fact that you had such extreme views in youth in no way diminishes you as a writer. But if you ever ran for high office, I would hold those views against you. Perhaps prudence and moderation can be learned but I have more trust in those whose virtue comes naturally.
One would have thought that this absolution process towards former Weathermen, and their gun molls (Doryn, Hearst, etc.), would have ended. It has not in light of Obama’s association with Ayers. Absolution comes in many forms for the press; People Magazine interviews Patty Hearst next to her kids and latest husband; the most insidious is not mentioning it. Their program is “Just let the wacko far right commentators rant online.” This is what is happening. The MSM totally ignores. The University of Illinois Chicago shuts down access. The Chicago machine under Daley follows the law of omerta until after the convention. Then the counterattack will be another “Swiftboat attack by the far right.” Check the Times tory to counter the emergence of this issue.
If you’re a successful Democratic politician in Chicago, there’s likely to be something fishy in your past.
I have to believe that either Obama saw Ayers as a kindred spirit, or as a tool to use in his drive for political power in Chicago. Or some of both.
I don’t think either is commendable.
Brian G: ” because people are afraid they’ll get thrown into Gitmo and tortured as well.”
It seems not to be scaring you all that much.
Brian G. Wow, I can’t tell if that is the most prolific use of sarcasm or if you are gargling the kool-aid.
On another note, Roger, I see that you used the word “context” in your self-description. I see more conservative (or dare I say classically liberal) bloggers and journalists use this as opposed to the word “frame”. It’s as if the big picture matters when looking at the particulars of something. The MSM has of late used “frame” less and less I suppose because they finally realized that it is synonymous with framing someone else for a crime. The very frame limits the observer from seeing the bigger picture. The context.
I feel safer when someone uses context because it tells me they want me to see everything, good and bad, and come to my own conclusions. Framing (and sometimes narrative) tend to show only the best or most damning parts of something and try to tell me how to think. While I believe that the MSM “frames” I don’t think that blogs necessarily “give context” by themselves. Often it is an aggregate of blogs or their use of citation links that do this.
And usually it is liberal blogs that fail to do this. or in some instances try to delete themselves so that no bad information gets out. That is why I applaud Roger in exposing his past. It in a way enhances his argument by showing that his path was made by hard and sometimes wrong choices. How his character then evovled to his character now.
Obama isn’t running for Oraton-in-Chief or for Chief Wonk…he is running for Chief Executive. And one of the major functions of an executive, maybe *the* major function, is picking people.
Given Obama’s complete lack of executive experience, we can’t judge him like we could judge a governor, by the people he has chosen to run the state departments. We can’t judge him like we could judge a corporate CEO, by the people he picked as VPs. We can judge his people-selection abilities only by those with whom he has chosen to surround himself, and it’s a pretty dismal lot.
“Ayers is [merely] a professor who engaged in a Vietnam War protest…”
I knew Ayers in ’69. That statement is not true. Ayers believed there were no innocents so there was no moral problem with murdering people who benefited from white skin privilege, for example.
Roger’s point is apt and reflects on Dem presidential politics. In ’04, not only was the CBS anti-Bush Texas Nat’l Guard story made up, it was also irrelevant in the sense that we had already seen Pres Bush in action for 4 years. There was plenty of info to draw a conclusion. On the other hand, voters wanted to know more about Sen Kerry in order to make a decision. Instead of releasing his military records, a decision was made to stonewall the issue. Arguably that decision cost him the election. Sen Obama, for the good of the country, should put as much on the table as possible. He should be less worried about the “Republican attack machine” and more concerned with communicating with the voters. As a voter, I get worried when I sense a cover-up.
thanks for the parody, Bryan G.
You’re all a bunch of racists!
When Ayres is called “unrepentant” it is because of recent statements like this 2007 statment:
“To live in the United States, Dohrn told the group, is to be “inside the heart of the monster” that is such a “purveyor of violence in the world.” Ayers denounced America as an imperial warmonger steeped in “jingoistic patriotism, unprecedented and unapologetic military expansion, white supremacy . . . attacks on women and girls, violent attacks, growing surveillance in every sphere of our lives, on and on and on.” ((http://tinyurl.com/5ev5g9)
Thanks to the influence and money of his father and, no doubt, a phalanx of high priced lawyers, Ayers and Dorn escaped trial on various charges related to domestic terrorism; the Weathermen were responsible for at least a dozen bombings and the deaths of two innocent people. Ayres father’s influence probably also explains how Ayers ended up as a “Distinguished Professor Education” at the University of Illinois in Chicago where he is a major, national force in rewriting primary edcuation curriculums; revolution from within anyone?
Ayers was Obama’s boss for eight years at the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which distributed $50 million dollars in grants to improve education in Chicago,
but with no measurable effect.
Who thinks that the ideas of Ayres or Wright do not have a strong effect of Obama’s thinking and won’t help direct the kinds of decisions he might make as President?”
I have many friends and relatives whose politics are repulsive to me. However, I believe that BO’s relationships are a valid factor in determining his suitability for President. We vote for individuals whose viewpoints agree with our own and need to know where the candidates stand.
BO deliberately made himself a blank slate. His law school writings are non-existent, he voted only “present” in the state legislature, he has been unremarkable in the Senate, his speeches are vacuous. Lacking any background on his true ideology, it is valid to scrutinize his relationships. People generally choose to work, join community organizations and associate with those who share their viewpoints.
With BO, there appears to be a pattern of close, ongoing relationships with individuals who espouse anti-American views. If those relationships are only isolated instances or part of his past, they tell us only of his history and formation. If they are ongoing, they tell us something about his current ideology. They are a piece of the puzzle.
I think that Leftist found their sense of self worth on the belief that they are an intellectual and moral elite whose true ideas will not be understood by the electorate. If everybody understood the world as they did and would vote for them with eyes wide open, then they would no longer be an elite. Therefore, they begin all political action with the idea they must deceive the people for the good of the people.
They approach each campaign with the idea that they must erect a facade that will fool the people into electing someone who does represent the ideals of the people. The careful control of records and the pressure on the media not to dig are absolutely vital to this process.
Hopefully, in the internet era, this strategy will fail.
I for one would be very happy to see Ayers “disappear” with all due process, of course. He got off on technicalities and because of government bungling, but the fact is that he and his wife were responsible for the deaths at least two people, including his best friend. If nothing else, it was clearly manslaughter. His comments since have been repugnant, and one of the reasons he is in the position he is in now is to infiltrate the system and continue his “revolution” by other means. $50 Million is a lot of loot to do that kind of damage.
So yes, I would say it’s pretty relevant to the character and motives of the candidate.
“I dunno, jblog. Al Quedans seem to blow themselves up with regularity.”
Yes, but they’re usually adept enough to take other people with them when they do.
Don’t get me wrong — I much prefer incompetent terrorists to competent ones.
I’m just pointing out that one is no less evil than the other.
“If past history is an indication, they won’t.”
Roger, I’ll get my indications from future history, thank you.
Being Chicago, those docs have been sanitized. With Ayers involved, that’s a guarantee. Now, about the only thing we could hope for is that Dan Rather follows the path of Roger and comes over from the dark side and once again “discovers” documents that could forever eliminate one candidates chances of ever becoming POTUS. And where the hell is Mary Mapes when we need her?
Only problem is, Rather is so stupid, this time he would actually use an old Smith Corona.
“Brian G.:
Ayers isn’t the issue. Ayers is a professor who engaged in a Vietnam War protest and now everyone is acting like the guy is a mass murderer. Typical right wing smear job on anyone who dares not fall in line with the Republican lies.”
Wow, nice try on the rewrite. Psychotic much?
Ayers was a member of the Weathermen, a violent leftwing radical group that engaged in things like riots, bombings and bank robberies.
His roommate and some of their buddies were killed when a nailbomb they were assembling exploded prematurely.
3. Your probably not on good ideological terms with them anymore either…
Whereas O! has only been throwing these people under the bus recently… because he has to…
Anyway, my wife raised this guilt via association thing with me because we have some socialist / commie acquaintances and we end up at the same parties et cetera… I mentioned, ever noticed how the hosts keep us on other sides of the room? Everyone knows exactly what I think of them…
Sally:
“I think someone needs to explain to me the difference between William Ayers and the Unabomber. Maybe it’s just that one of those two managed to find the right friends.”
The government screwed something up with his case / evidence so he avoided prosecution on a technicality. Otherwise he would be in club fed right now.
Bush’s illegal war on Iraq
Hilarious.
Um, which law was “broken” to make this war “illegal” again?
You also don’t recognize the irony of your posting – McCain would make Ayers ‘disappear’ but apparently that Constitution shredding Bush would not.
You leftists have no sense of irony.
Not just Ayers, but a poet-activist named Frank Marshall Davis, whom Obama knew in Hawaii. For my money, not as incriminating as the Ayers link, but still, one more added to the pile. A pile that includes Saul Alinksy, and a pile that’s getting harder to ignore.
BrianG: Well bless your pointy little head.
Obama is not guilty by association. He is guilty of association.
That is, it’s illogical to decide that because Obama associated with anti-American terrorists, he’s an anti-American terrorist himself. However, it is perfectly rational to declare Obama guilty of associating with anti-American terrorists, which decent people simply shouldn’t do.
My experience with “The Movement” was that the people who devoted ALL of their time to “Bringing down the Establishment” by every means possible, including really evil action, were upper class. They had plenty of money to hop on airplanes and travel to meetings here and there, to plan for “The Revolution.” They spent YEARS in University, and around Universities, which is why lots of them sidled into tenured positions by the mid /70s.
That Ayers and Dohrn have managed to segue into comfy cosy lives, controlling some $50 million dollars to further “The Revolution” in the public school system should not be a surprise. A lot of “Radicals” in Toronto went into politics in the ’70s via School Boards, with the same end in view.
The Radicals who had little money went on to work for their daily bread, and – you know – grew up, learned, and became Adults.
“1. I am not running for President.”
No, but you do see fit to lecture people on their associations, when your own should automatically disqualify you from doing that. Frankly, I don’t care if you’ve repented; that doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to those adversely affected by your wrongdoing.
You all have turned Senator McCain into a plaster saint, but he has his own Bill Ayers: G. Gordon Liddy (http://tinyurl.com/575h93). Of course, many of you are probably comfortable with Libby for your own ideological reasons. Some extremists are acceptable while others are not, I guess.
Also, McCain is now neck-deep with an Evangelical right that is often openly hostile to gays and Jews; twenty years or one, a nutjob is a still a nutjob.
The truth is, McCain and Obama are both good, but profoundly flawed men who could very well have the most exciting run in recent history, which is why I would hope that all of you spend a bit less time wading in this cesspool of a comments section.
“You all have turned Senator McCain into a plaster saint, but he has his own Bill Ayers: G. Gordon Liddy (http://tinyurl.com/575h93).”
Funny, I’m familiar with Mr. Liddy’s history, but I don’t remember anything about him robbing banks and constructing nailbombs.
When was that?
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/21/ayers-in-2006-weather-underground-a-great-teaching-moment/
the weather underground was a great teaching moment
The problem probably is that his beliefs haven’t changed much, if at all, and that is why he needs to keep it under wrap.
Folks, Brian G. was kidding, alright? The second paragraph’s a hoot!
Jay, Roger is being a lot more up front about his past associations than Obama is. Obama has even put out false information about Ayers when being interviewed, calling him a professor of English rather than Education, which is a strange mistake for him to make considering they were both on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge which dealt (poorly) with education.
Maybe since you have such a jaundiced view of this comments section, calling it a “cesspool”, you can freshen it up by providing a list of positive things that Obama has accomplished in the Illinois and US Senate. Because at this point he’s a blank slate to me and his past associations wouldn’t mean so much if I had a list of accomplishments that would override them.
Only problem is, Rather is so stupid, this time he would actually use an old Smith Corona.
And then afterwards it would be revealed that department actually used Royals for all of their work.
As others have said, these associations are recent, and no one has expressed any repentance for the past. Absolution requires some penitance. And there isn’t any hot air, let alone physical proof of penitance.
“Also, McCain is now neck-deep with an Evangelical right that is often openly hostile to gays and Jews;”
Holy freakin’ crap! I’m often openly hostile to gays and Jews?
Boy, my Jewish college roommates and lesbian sister are going to be SERIOUSLY TO’d at me when they find out.
Stereotype much?
Can you guess who the ignorant, intolerant dork is in this conversation? (It’s you — it was a trick question.)
Another amazing thing to all this is how many awful people Obama has chosen – with his own free will – to associate with in the very short span of his career.
Even if one could do a side-by-side comparison of awful people Obama and McCain were associated with (you cannot, sorry to say), the fact that a less-than-one-term Congressman and State Senator could get involved in so much is evidence that he’s not fit.
It does no good to say, “Well, it’s just Chicago politics.”
Too damn bad for the citizens of Chicago, then. Your politicians should be purged from the American system until you guys get it through your heads enough to start putting decent ones in. If a bunch of poor blokes in Ukraine can overturn their government, there’s no reason a bunch of well-fed, wealthy people in Chicago can’t.
What is for certain is that there’s absolutely no reason the rest of America should be tainted by that awful wreck of a political system.
Run by Progressives, I might add.
Brian G.’s is about the niftiest piece of trollwork I’ve ever seen. Right up there with whazisname, who waxed brilliantly subversive over at Puffington’s (which, I have to say, I haven’t looked at for decades).
A perfect example of MSM framing is “Israel bombed the Gaza strip today…” failing ot mention the Quassam rocket attacks preceding it.
“”"”"Brian G.:
Ayers isn’t the issue. Ayers is a professor who engaged in a Vietnam War protest and now everyone is acting like the guy is a mass murderer. Typical right wing smear job on anyone who dares not fall in line with the Republican lies.
Bush’s illegal war on Iraq and his removal of our Constitutional rights are why we need Obama as President. As soon as Obama is elected with 75% of the vote, you watch how many people suddenly re-appear from Gitmo and the other CIA secret prisons that Bush, Cheney, Haliburton, and Blackwater run. Plus, Obama will stop Bush’s old cronies from continuing to rip us off and gas will be back to $1.10 a gallon after Obama hits them hard with the windfall profits tax. The oil companies are behind smearing Obama and Ayers so that they can keep gas prices high. If McCain is elected, you watch how Ayers all of a sudden disappears, which is hy you never hear anyone criticize Bush or McCain, because people are afraid they’ll get thrown into Gitmo and tortured as well.”"”"”"”
This was a parody, right? You’re making fun of lefty moonbats by tossing in every buzzword/hot-button phrase in the Nutroots lexicon, am I correct? It’s very clumsy as parody, though, so you’ll never write for “The Onion.”
Obama is an assiduous student of the modern way of getting ahead. No need for a moral compass, and no need to be embarrassed or to feel guilt about anything. Absolve oneself and move on.
He has observed this work time and again for other successful politicians, like both Clintons, so he has refined the art. He’s an alchemist who is figuring out how to turn the leaden lump that is his real self into Presidential gold.
Problem is, it’s just gold paint. Scratch the paint, and the dull lead is revealed underneath. The lump of lead that is Obama sure is getting scratched and pitted lately.
OT
Prediction: Obama picks Hillary | Mcain picks Romney
Just a thought crossing my mind while running. If Obama waits this long before convention to pick anyone but Hillary, that person won’t be prepared well for the convention (thus Obama is not prepared-something we all know but becomes painfully reinforced by the adolescent teasing about who his VP will be and only giving the person a short time to prepare for convention and write a major speech and climb on board the support train).
OK, Brian G., it’s time to come back and settle this. I’m in the parody camp–it was perfect. Too perfect. No real moonbat could express moonbattiness so well. You were probably laughing your ass off as you typed that and you deserve a beer from every person here.
Illegal war? Hey Congress voted for that war, they never voted to give the Weathermen the right to blow things up.
Where is Woodward and Bernstein?
Where is Michael Isikoff?
Where is Seymour Hersh?
Do you think McCain past would get a pass like Obama gets’?
Nooooooh…, we want to know if that cross in McCain’s prison camp was made up. We want to know if McCain was not in a “cone of silence” prior to his church appearance. We want to know how many houses his wife Cindy has.
yea yea, that’s the ticket!
Stealing Hillary was a dress rehearsal.
http://tinyurl.com/6yhyvm
Well I should not trust those ideas when running. Biden as Veep? A dream come true for the Republicans. Put Delaware in the win column for Obama.
I’m in the parody camp for Bryan. It was the 75% vote for Obama. Even the battiest of moonbats are expecting only 65-70%, tops.
Obama grew up black, abandoned by his black father, with a white mother and a white sister. His book (Dreams from my Father) written when he was 34 states his hate of being black, hate of being black in white America, hate of whites. Its a book all about rage and hate AND how he learned to con whites PAGE 94 “tricks I had learned, making no sudden moves, courteous and smiled” “They were relieved–such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man who didn’t seem angry all the time.”
PAGE 83 “WITHDRAWL INTO A SMALLER AND SMALLER COIL OF RAGE, UNTIL BEING BLACK MEANT ONLY THE KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR OWN POWERLESSNES OF YOUR OWN DEFEAT…A NAME FOR THAT TOO, A NAME THAT WOUOLD CAGE YOU JUST AS GOOD. PARANOID, MILITANT, VIOLENT, NIGGER.” PAGE 81 “OUR RAGE AT THE WHITE WORLD NEEDFED NO OBJECT…IT COULD BE SWITCHED ON AND OFF AT OUR PLEASURE.”
READ HIS BOOK, YOU WILL BE OUTRAGED
Sorry, Rog, I’m not buying it. And I’m not talking about your book. I’m talking about your sincerity.
You open this post with “I’m opposed to guilt-by-association.” And then spend the next 6 paragraphs dancing to the “guilt-by-association” tune.
And I think you knew it, too, which is why you offered up this dodge:
“No matter what the truth is, this obfuscation makes it worse. Indeed, the obfuscation is the problem, in itself probably worse than almost any possible fact being hidden.”
It’s not the Weather Underground ties. It’s the obfuscation!
So which is it, Roger? Is the obfuscation really the issue? Or are you trying to play the guilt-by-association game?
Based on the preceding comments, it seems that most people are picking up on the latter option…