If there weren’t an Ann Coulter, the Democrats would have to invent her. I can’t imagine a greater walking advertisement for the supposed bigotry of the extreme right. And just when some Jews were considering joining the Republican Party, this near-sociopathic, book-promoting machine is doing her one woman best to send them back into the conventional arms of the Dems.
It’s hard to know if Coulter believes what she’s saying, because the out-of-control narcissism of this woman rivals, maybe even out-strips, the egomaniacs on the Hollywood Left. But these excerpts from her October 8 interview with The Big Picture’s Donny Deutsch quoted by Israelly Cool boggle the mind:
COULTER: Well, OK, take the Republican National Convention. People were happy. They’re Christian. They’re tolerant. They defend America, they -
DEUTSCH: Christian – so we should be Christian? It would be better if we were all Christian?
COULTER: Yes.
DEUTSCH: We should all be Christian?
COULTER: Yes. Would you like to come to church with me, Donny?
DEUTSCH: So I should not be a Jew, I should be a Christian, and this would be a better place?
COULTER: Well, you could be a practicing Jew, but you’re not.
DEUTSCH: I actually am. That’s not true. I really am. But – so we would be better if we were – if people – if there were no Jews, no Buddhists -
COULTER: Whenever I’m harangued by -
DEUTSCH: – in this country? You can’t believe that.
COULTER: – you know, liberals on diversity -
DEUTSCH: Here you go again.
Crazy? But wait,there’s more:
DEUTSCH: That isn’t what I said, but you said I should not – we should just throw Judaism away and we should all be Christians, then, or -
COULTER: Yeah.
DEUTSCH: Really?
COULTER: Well, it’s a lot easier. It’s kind of a fast track.
DEUTSCH: Really?
COULTER: Yeah. You have to obey.
DEUTSCH: You can’t possibly believe that.
COULTER: Yes.
DEUTSCH: You can’t possibly – you’re too educated, you can’t – you’re like my friend in -
COULTER: Do you know what Christianity is? We believe your religion, but you have to obey.
DEUTSCH: No, no, no, but I mean -
COULTER: We have the fast-track program.
DEUTSCH: Why don’t I put you with the head of Iran? I mean, come on. You can’t believe that.
COULTER: The head of Iran is not a Christian.
DEUTSCH: No, but in fact, “Let’s wipe Israel” -
COULTER: I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention.
DEUTSCH: “Let’s wipe Israel off the earth.” I mean, what, no Jews?
COULTER: No, we think – we just want Jews to be perfected, as they say.
Forget separation of church and state, we are now in the land of Sharia here. Coulter is a cross between some nutcase passing out Jews for Jesus literature on Hollywood Boulevard and the Islamists she says she hates. (Another example of projection?) What’s particularly disconcerting is that she is apparently going to be speaking on the University of Southern California and Tulane campuses for Islamofascist Awareness Week later this month. What a horrible choice under the circumstances. I would recommend the organizers reconsider.
Convictions make convicts.
I am a theological modernist—and I’m just going to shrug my shoulders over Ann Coulter’s silly remarks. It will definitely not chase me out of the Republican Party! There’s no reason to get bent of out of shape over something like this.
If there weren’t an Ann Coulter, the Democrats would have to invent her.
You couldn’t have said it better. With “allies” like Coulter and Buchanan, the Republicans don’t need enemies.
When I lived in the NorthWest, we became good friends with a rather observant Mormon family. Occasionally, he would make a suggestion and we would shrug it off.
Really, if you want to get along with people on the left and on the right you have to accept that their beliefs will be different from yours AND that they will think that you should believe what they believe.
Is Ann Coulter threatening to force Donny Deutsch to pay a Jirza if he doesn’t convert? Is she not going to let him rent an apartment? So she thinks Christianity is the best, and specifically, better than Judaism. I happen to hold the opposite view, but in either case, is that really Sharia?
This sort of thing does more to hurt people’s perceptions of Christianity than their perceptions of Judaism, I think.
I found the study below rather interesting and it seems to fit the topic.
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=280
So Anne Coulter is all the slanderous things you just said about her just because she voiced what EVERY orthodox Christian on earth believes? Sheesh! How daft!
You are every bit in favor of suppression of speech as any common democRAT blithering and sputtering their eletist-command-and-control nonsense all over the Rat controlled media. Put a sock in it you dolt.
Ann Coulter has had so much media exposure that if we don’t know her by now, we never will.
We know that she walks and frequently trips on the line between good and bad taste in the interest of humor, which magically transforms into book sales. Sometimes she’s funny, sometimes you just cringe. We also know that once she steps into a hole she will try to argue and reason her way out–she will never, never backtrack and apologize for anything she says. That just isn’t her.
Last point. She claims to be a Christian, and Christians believe that Jews need to accept Jesus, they believe everyone needs to accept Jesus–that’s part of the worldview, what else can she say? She is not taking the position of the Grand Inquisitors, that we Jews must be forced to convert. It’s okay to disagree with her–she would say that, but she would also maintain that her position is clearly correct and anyone disagreeing is wrong. Why? Because that’s who she is. She was raised in a home where arguing is the national pastime, so if you disagree with her, debate in a fair way and in good faith (no pun intended). There is no need to be offended.
Like her or not I’ll say one thing for Coulter (other than she’s hot) the reason they keep inviting her on is because she gives them what they want.
She seemed to be making a point about whatever and he takes a rather minor comment and tries to put her on the defensive and she refused. I didn’t see the show, but the tone of the exchange implies there was more going than a mere interview.
Coulter knows that on TV talk shows (exept for Rose and very few others) is not the content that matters, but ‘how you do’.
Deutsch got his cheap TV thrill; his political porn conquest.
That makes Ann a Jew hater?
“With “allies” like Coulter and Buchanan, the Republicans don’t need enemies.”
Ann Coulter is very pro-Israel. Pat Buchanan is no longer a member of the Republican Party. Sadly, his views are also similar to those of Eric Alterman, Tony Judt, Steven Spielberg and Tony Kushner. I dare say that a high percentage of Jewish-Americans who still remain within the Democratic Party are of the self-hating variety. They strongly believe that Israel is a mistake and a fascist persecutor of the Palestinians.
She is one nasty bitch. It disgusts me that she sells so many books. Her popularity on the right is one reason I refuse to call myself a conservative or register with the Republican Party. If she were marginal it wouldn’t matter much, but she isn’t.
Those who think she isn’t a severe liability for you, just ask yourself what favors Michael Moore does for the Democrats.
To all those that seem to be afraid of Coulter, I’d suggest you relax.
Personally I’m an agnostic so don’t have a dog in this fight, BUT, it’s obviously clear that her going on about the fast track is with regard to the after life.
Christians believe that they ARE on the fast lane to heaven. What she is doing is saying that everyone else should climb aboard for their own good. BUT, she is not saying that such a conversion should be forced.
I find DD’s moral equivalency trying to equate a devout Christian with Dinnerjacket to be truly despicable. The inquisition and the Puritans were a long time ago so just chill out.
I just want to bang my head on a wall when I read something like this.
If prominent Republicans don’t distance themselves from this, then liberals and moderates get to keep hanging the (overwhelmingly undeserved) label of antisemitism on Republicans and Conservatives.
If this becomes Coulter’s “Nappy-headed hos,” then she becomes a martyr to her fans, the myth that a lot of Evangelical Christians tell themselves about Christian persecution gets reinforced, and we get some bonus undercurrents of “Jewish control of the Media.”
Donny Deutsch? Donny Deutsch?
You’re whacked out at Ann Coulter because of an interview she did with this guy?
Look, Ann doesn’t suffer fools lightly. Deutsch obviously had a pre-conceived position that Ann was anti-Jew and she wasn’t going to let herself be put in the position to have to deny that. She attacked instead, and knew that because she was on MSNBC, only about 10 people were actually going to see her do it.
Ann is, unfortunately, the “balls” of the Republican party, a party that severely lacks “balls” right now. That is why the party is in a steep decline right now. It’s not because of Ann Coulter.
What Coulter SHOULD have done is asked Deutsch what he believes about Christians if he is in fact a practicing Jew.
Either he’d equivocate and reveal himself not to be a practicing Jew, and hence a liar, or be forced into making a comment not unlike Coulter’s.
Face it: most religions do not exactly take sympathetic views of most other religions, and Judaism with its talk about “the chosen people” is certainly no different.
By asserting that her religion is true, she has clearly blasphemed against the state religion of Moral Relativism and stands revealed as a HERETIC!
Burn the witch!
When it comes to religion Coulter takes a very wide stand
I’m with you Steve in Ohio.
I don’t know how many so called conservatives have we seen over the years taking a dive. I’m sick of it.
Thank God for Coulter.
AlanC:To all those that seem to be afraid of Coulter, I’d suggest you relax.
I am not afraid of Ann Coulter. I work in Iraq. I have more important things to be afraid of.
If her religion demands that she say this crap on TV, what does that say about her religion?
I am not religious. I don’t care what religion she or anyone else adheres to. But if she sincerely thinks America would be better off without me, she’s dumber than she sounds if she expects me to tolerate her supremacist bullshit.
She’s not as bas as a radical Islamist, but in all the time I’ve spent in the Middle East, I only met two people (the Hezbollah spokeman and one of their security goons) ruder and more openly intolerant than she.
iI think she was probably needling DD.
She does say outrageous things, but it’s always droll, tongue-in-cheek. I guess she’s a matter of taste–i always get a laff out of her, but I can see where others might not.
I’d bet my last dollar that the one thing she ain’t is anti-semitic, or anti-Israel. It just would’t fit into her sort of individual-centric world-view. Really, her brand of playful/serious humor is more Jewish than Christian, LOL–
Sally-O: most religions do not exactly take sympathetic views of most other religions
Does that mean only atheists and agnostics ought to be tolerant then? That intolerance is okay if it is faith-based?
I guess the question is, is she intolerant? That’s where the disagreement seems to be.
I don’t think she was intolerant of DD’s religion–I think she was intolerant of DD’s “act”–his oft-displayed sanctimonious-liberal gasbaggery.
Buddy Larsen: I guess the question is, is she intolerant?
If you want to spin this one as needling DD, fine. But you can’t make a case that she isn’t generally intolerant. It’s her schtick, after all.
From an agnostic American’s view, I could care less if she thinks that her Stone Age deity has any greater likelihood of saving souls than the Jews version of the same deity, or the Muslim version of the same deity or the Jehovah’s Witnesses version of the same deity. Hell, I’m glad she is at least honest enough to publicly state her delusions, rather than hiding her disdain for other tribal belief systems.
As an agnostic American that consider organized religion a bad idea for many reasons… I don’t mind people like Ms. Coulter chasing the current generation of young Americans away from Christianity.
As an American who is no fan of socialism though, I am rather irritated that Ms. Coulter would continue to act like an idiot and tie herself to the only party that might stop a Hillary presidency. We all get freedom of speech, with that freedom comes consequences. When your “balls” use their freedom of speech to talk like assholes… your party has a problem.
Michael
In light of Hitchens’ leading the bandwagon of anti-religion bigotry against anyone of any faith, it’s dubious to suggest that atheists are tolerant.
abu,
Well said. Tolerance seems like a vanishing art. However, I think Totten’s point was that if we “give a pass” to intolerance because its part of people’s faith, then only Atheists, Agnostics, Sub-Geniuses and Discordians would be expected to display any sort of tolerance.
MJT –that was my point –it’s a schtick. That doesn’t mean it’s not an objectional schtick, tho, of course.
So the question would be, is there any need for a devil’s advocate or agent provocateur on the right?
I think so –she ain’t traditional, and so helps dissolve a little bit of that ‘looking-backward’ complaint about the right. Her bit with DD was little different than that schtick that priest and that rabbi (the “God Squad”–can’t recall their names at the mo) do on tv all the time–banter which helps the two religions stay comfy with each other.
dclydew –you might as well rail against our desire for oxygen, as against our desire for something that transcends our selves. Religion started when mankind started, as far as I can tell –a strong indication it’s wired-in.
I think her critics are being a bit hyper-sensitive. Holding your own faith as superior does not neccesarily mean you are intolerant of others – it’s not as if she was advocating shutting down synagogues or banning Jews from public life. She just has faith in her own religion and is un-PC enough to say so.
If religious faith itself is to be condemned as an act of intolerance, then we are truly on the road to having Moral Relativism enforced as the established religion of the country.
That is either a lie or you have only met two people in the mideast.
Let’s not unilaterally disarm you people!
Ann may be a dirty bomb.
But at least she’s OUR dirty bomb
Ok, just skip over where DD is baiting her to deliver what he wants her to say…
I think what Ann said in context with DD’s baiting was an extreme reductionism of religious philosophies. Something best left to private discussion and reflection.
“If prominent Republicans don’t distance themselves from this, then liberals and moderates get to keep hanging the (overwhelmingly undeserved) label of antisemitism on Republicans and Conservatives.”
That’s going to happen anyway.
As well as racist, anti-feminist, anti-gay, anti-children, etc…
Best to roll your eyes, and say, well, that’s why Ann Coulter is not in office, advising any candidates, or sitting in a booth next to favored ex-Presidents. She’s free to espouse any crazy thing she wants. She’s writes books that are popular and gets on tv shows.
“But she deserves to be criticized for uttering such insensitive things.
Even if what she said is an accurate representation of Christian theology, saying this in a public forum is no less insensitive or offensive to non-Christians.”
Isn’t that the whole basis for POLITICAL CORRECTNESS in all its forms??
If it’s offensive it dare not be said in public.
Well, it seems, unless it’s to bash Christians, Republicans, Conservatives, White Men, Rich Men, Red Necks…
I think the outrage is overblown. An outrageous rhetorical bomb-thrower threw another one. And it offended a bunch of people. Isn’t the first time, ain’t going to be the last either.
Chalk up one more for media matters pushed outrages.
…i mean, stone age diety? okay, what else do we have from the stone age –we save the seed corn for next spring, we survive better if we stick together, mating for life is an ideal, we don’t eat our loved ones, etcetera.
Let me make myself clear:
I think Donny Deutsch is a kneejerk dullard and I never watch his tedious show.
That said, I find Coulter reprehensible and intolerant. Also, highly limited in her definitions of Judaism and Christianity. If they were both as restricted as she believes or she is, we would be in deep trouble. The good thing about both religions is they have been greatly reformed many times (as opposed to Islam) to keep up with advances in civilization.
dclydew –you might as well rail against our desire for oxygen, as against our desire for something that transcends our selves. Religion started when mankind started, as far as I can tell –a strong indication it’s wired-in.
I think that religion definately has its roots deep in the human system. Tribal belief systems have been used for thousands of years to make one tribe think that they’re extra special and that the idiots on the other side of the forest are doomed. It’s just changed from OkkiMakhi The Lake Spirit to YHVH and Jesus.
Us vs. Them does indeed seem wired in.
Roger:
Ann Coulter is not representative of the Republican Party. She is an anorexic woman whose stock in trade is hurling lightning bolts and making money. For every Ann Coulter there are scores of people just as bad if not worse on the Democratic Left. Let’s have some perspective here.
Ripper,I agree basically.
Ann Coulter is only representative of Ann Coulter.
But I disagree with Lem. She is not our “dirty bomb.” She’s a weapon that too often shoots in the wrong direction. The media war is the most important war out there and she alienates the one area up for grabs – the center. She sells a lot of books and sucks a lot of air time, but if you want actually to win the war of public opinion, to persuade people who are not on your side or wavering, she’s toxic.
Ripper,
By the same token, I don’t know of any of my Democrat friends that behave like any of the big names in the media.
However, what do people perceive as the party, my friend Brian who likes the idea of using taxes as a resource for helping people that need it, or Al Franken?
nicely loaded, dclydew –”people who need it” needs defining.
Roger, Roger, Roger. Ms Coulter is a caricature. She assiduously cultivates the most outrageous image she can conjure up. She is also very bright. I am Jewish and I roared with laughter to read the interviewer’s responses to her (deliberately) outrageous statements. Where they made with serious intent I would have a problem. But lighten up. She was dealing with a fool. And she did. In her own inimitable way. Without “Sharia” or any of the other sensitivities serious discussions would create. She wasn’t being serious at all.
“Taxes” don’t come out of the air –they come from “people who need it”.
Granted Roger, she’s a little less than the angels.
The ‘outrage’ comes across as hysterical hypersensitivity to me.
Ann Coulter is a Christian because she thinks it’s closer to the truth than Judaism. And practicing Jews think they are closer to the truth than Ann Coulter. They no doubt would think that Ann could be ‘perfected’ by converting to Judaism.
How could it be any other way?
hypersensitivity is definitely in fashion.
people are hearing things that were not said.
nobody even suggested forced conversion. Only Islam practices that.
Buddy,
I don’t agree with Brian. It’s his idea of people who need it… my opinion on taxes is that they should, for the most part not exist (maybe a small property tax to cover government necessities).
My point was that Brian is not a crazy “OMG I WANNA BE A SOCIALIST” Democrat. Just as most Republicans aren’t crazy “OMG THE JOOS ARE GUNNA DIE IF THEY DON’T CONVERT” Republicans.
Again, in case you’re memeory isn’t what it used to be, I’m neither a democrat nor a socialist nor a communist. Please stop peeing in the comments section.
Reading thru the quotations of Coulter above it seems like her town changed about half-way thru and she was replying cynically and attempting to inject some humor into her responses to his questions with her “fast track” comments. Christ was a Jew. Christiany would of course like to convert people into their faith. Basically everyone converting to Christianity would be great, but if that doesn’t happen that’s great to. It looks like Ann sort of forgot that last little detail. Can’t find the quote but didn’t Pope JP II say something along the lines of multiple roads to heaven? That the church was not the only road to heaven?
Just my .02
Ernest,
They no doubt would think that Ann could be ‘perfected’ by converting to Judaism.
Actually, from the Jews that I’m familiar with (some of whom are Rabbis) they don’t really go for the whole conversion for salvation thing. That seems mostly to lie with Christians and Muslims and crazy cults.
dclydew, ok, sorry, no mo needlin’. peace, bro –
Nobody is perfect, not even Ann.
I red somewhere that she’s a Yankee fan.
The gall of that woman
I red somewhere that she’s a Yankee fan.
Talk about unfounded beliefs!!!!
I seem to recall that “perfected” thing from the new testament.
She may have been quoting something unfamiliar to DD.
Lem,
Paul wrote that Jesus told him that His “Power was perfected in weakness” (Corinthians, I think).
Roger
I suspect that Ann Coulter wants to be a gadfly to both Democrats and what she perceives as “mushy” Republicans. She is very comfortable with a Democratic Administration because she will get even wealthier. Her refusal to support people like Giuliani proves that she would rather Hillary become president. The only time I actually some what like Coulter is when she deflates the girlie man Alan Colmes.
She is very comfortable with a Democratic Administration because she will get even wealthier. Her refusal to support people like Giuliani proves that she would rather Hillary become president.
So she’s a “Me First, Fuck Everyone Else” Baby Boomer that just switched sides and kept the attitude?
Lovely.
I assume Ms Coulter is in the Protestant traditon of Christianity. While her attitudes were common a generation ago, for Roman Catholics the situation regarding relations with Jews was radically changed by the late Pope John Paul II. In a long Papal encyclical (Letter) he clearly stated that the divine covenant of the Jews is eternal and valid. ROMA DICTA. Rome has spoken and the Church is bound by this truth.
Game set and match.
The new covenant — Christianity — is eternal and valid also. In simple terms the two covenants are like trains running parallel tracks. Conversion is not only not necessary it is not appropriate for observant Jews. They have an eternal and valid covenant. Pretty clear.
Most Catholics and Jews are not aware of the absolute force of this Papal pronouncement other than knowing that Pope John Paul II desired to make Christians and Jews live without the bitterness of past history. He did that, but what most do know understand is that he closed the question for Catholics once and for all, nunc et semper. The eternal validity of both covenants is affirmed in the strongest terms. This asks for and requires no repose from Jews. Those Jewish scholars who have looked into this Papal pronouncement are almost uniformly amazed by the finality of this action.
This is like but even clearer and stronger than the relationship of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians. The Orthodox are and have long been considered sysmatics — valid forms of the Christian faith that are estranged for political and historical but not by important theological reasons from Rome.
Oh jeez we are in an existential battle with a corrupt 7th century religion and Coulter says that she is a perfect Jew. Horrors…
Whats next we accuse her of being a Nazi?
I didn’t get a harrumph from that guy.
Oddly enough that is not how the left has nearly won this battle of ideas…I mean they haven’t been nice kumbaya sort of folks. They have ripped out throats and stepped on the remains…seems to have worked well enough for them that we are now facing a dynasty of Clinton, Reid, Pelosi…more left wing folks you cannot find and bomb throwers one and all.
But lets continue being nice after all see what it got President Bush with the Democrats.
And I want to add they have nearly reached dynasty stage with ideas that most people find wrong…neat trick. Man, being mean never works.
Hitler was not a nice guy when he was running for election.
The gap between Coulter and the Bombthrowers is pretty wide…we have a ways to go before we catch up. And probably we won’t start winning until we start fighting.
as to evangelism: the Jews were evangelistic in the time of the Roman Empire. It is a pity they stopped being that way.
In fact, the Jews and the Christians have a lot more in common than Jesus: our God is involved with this world, and with people and individuals. As Ayaan Ali Hirsi says (in Reason Magazine):
“I accept that there are multitudes seeking God, seeking meaning, and so on, but if they reject atheism, I would rather they became modern-day Catholics or Jews than that they became Muslims. Because my Catholic and Jewish colleagues are fine. The concept of God in Jewish orthodoxy is one where youíre having constant quarrels with God. Where I come from, in Islam, the only concept of God is you submit to Him and you obey His commands, no quarreling allowed. Quarreling or even asking questions means you raise yourself to the same level as Him, and in Islam thatís the worst sin you can commit.”
So Ann Coulter has a point. Since the Jews have stopped evangelizing, that leaves it up to the Christians. Because, when it comes right down to it, our enemy is Islam. Also, I might add, Ayaan Ali Hirsi is just as hardrock serious about this as is Ann Coulter… or Phyllis Chesler.. Like them, I have no time for tolerance, or worrying about hurt feelings. This is about the fate of my grandchildren.
goose met gander
Who cares whether the Jews proselytized during the times of the Romans? We are in the year 2007 and primitive comments like Coulter’s only drive the electoral center away from the right. They think we are crazy. And the center are the only votes up for grabs. She is totally destructive to the cause against Islamofascism because she only preaches to the most extreme converted. Defending her is stupid because it exacerbates the situation. I am stunned that people on here are doing it. They are not thinking about winning the war. They are thinking about being right. Again,who cares about that?
So Ann Coulter has a point. Since the Jews have stopped evangelizing, that leaves it up to the Christians. Because, when it comes right down to it, our enemy is Islam.
No, our enemy is not Islam.
Our enemy is an interconnected network of Islamist groups that are financed and managed by the fascist-influenced Muslim brotherhood. According to this report by Douglas Farah:
Almost every major Islamist group can trace its roots to the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in 1928 by the Hassan al-Banna, a pan-Islamicist who opposed the secular tendencies in Islamic nations. Hamas is a direct offshoot of the Brotherhood….
…Bin Laden’s mentor Abdullah Azzam was a stalwart of the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood. Ayman Zawahiri, al Qaeda’s chief strategist, was arrested at age 15 in Egypt for belonging to the Brotherhood. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Ayman al-Zawahiri, “Blind Sheikh” Omar Abdul-Rahman, and chief 9-11 hijacker Mohamed Atta, were members of the Brotherhood.
..In 2003 Richard Clarke said “the issue of terrorist financing in the United States is a fundamental example of the shared infrastructure levered by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al Qaeda, all of which enjoy a significant degree of cooperation and coordination within our borders. The common link here is the extremist Muslim Brotherhood” all these organizations are descendants of the membership and ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood.”
According to this study published in Front Page Magazine, fascism was the basis of the Muslim Brotherhood from it’s founding:
agents of Nazi foreign propaganda in Egypt maintained close relations not only with the Muslim Brotherhood (from which Hamas descends), but also with “the free officers,” a clandestine group from which the later presidents Abdel Nassir and Anwar al Sadat originated. Arab terrorists in Palestine were already being supplied with weapons from Nazi Germany in the mid-1930s, when the Grand Mufti Husseini was leading them in an anti-Jewish rebellion against the British; the Nazi intent was to weaken both the Jewish and British mechanisms of power. ..The Rashid Ali coup was eventually overturned by the British in June 1941–but not before there was a pogrom in Baghdad that led to the murder of several hundred (and perhaps up to two thousand) Iraqi Jews.
With the defeat of El Alamein in November 1942, it was clear that the German military invasion of the Middle East would not materialize. The Nazi government therefore concentrated German policy on mobilizing “the Arab resistance.” In this way the advance of the Allied armies could be hindered (though not stopped). The connection of all this to the Jews, however, soon embodied itself in the everyday consciousness of the masses. “What do the Americans want? They want to help the Jews,” was the type of propaganda the Nazis were spreading at that point. “Take up weapons, where you find them. Do damage to the cause to the enemy, wherever you can.”
Basically, we’re fighting the same old fascism. They don’t use blitzkriegs and pincer movements because they can’t fight worth a damn. Instead they use terrorism, propaganda and “Take up weapons, where you find them. Do damage to the cause to the enemy, wherever you can.”
But their ultimate goals are the same. Genocide, oppression, rule the world… Islam is just their recruiting tool.
The Germans used German culture to inspire their recruits. The current fascists use Islam. We didn’t win a war by fighting Wagner and the concept of Lebensraum, we won a war by targeting the German army’s infrastructure. The Islamist army’s infrastructure is the Muslim Brotherhood and their oil-rich donors. Like Iran, and like our allies in Saudi Arabia and the UAE. If we want to win the war, we’ll concentrate on them and not the leftist/atheist/Christian/Muslim down the street.
The Al Qaeda terrorists in Ramadi, where I recently returned from, were found with massive amounts of drugs and pornography. They bombed mosques and killed imams. All the mosques in Ramadi now have pro-American messages.
Mary is right. Islam isn’t the enemy. It is the same old fascism in Islamic drag.
Of course a Christian would see Christianity as a refinement of Judaism — otherwise, why remain a Christian? I don’t know as I would have put it as Ann Coulter did — but then I am not she.
Nor would I have put it as Benedict XVI did last July that other Christian denominations are not true churches. But he’s the Pope, and I am a Baptist. If Joseph Alois Ratzinger didn’t really believe as such, he wouldn’t be the head of the Roman Catholic (from the Latin for “universal”) Church, now would he?
Coulter is no less a performance artist than Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor, only she’s a she and a blonde. [Insert blonde joke here.] In performance, Coulter is candid in an edgy way that strips off all “political correctness” — and tact — and pings on people’s “PC” shell. It grates in the way that Don Rickles’ act did, but further to the right and so close to the political jugular as to be scary.
Brinkmanship — venturing out to the edge of the limb — is part of the art, and there will be times when Coulter goes out too far and falls out of the tree. But until she takes to promoting a new Intifada, inciting a latter-day Krystalnacht, or manning a Kassam launcher (a la Jane Fonda, 1972), I am not going to over-worry about what Ann Coulter says or does. Rather, I am going to evaluate the opacity and porosity of my own PC shell, and enjoy watching the other turtles in the pond react to the ping.
MJT –are they smoking hash, or shooting up heroin–or meth ? Dunno why I wonder but I do.
Odd (not) that the Muslim Brotherhood, with it’s 30s Berlin ties, is as shot through with dope as were the Nazis –as both core doctrines specifically demand rigorous asceticism.
OK, I’m Jewish and not exactly thrilled with Coulter’s remarks. But let’s get a little perspective. Is she as “antisemitic” as:
Pat Buchanan who has been taking nasty shots at Jews for most of his useless life?
Louis Farrakhan who said Jews should be “punished with death”?
Jimmy Carter who made sarcastic, derisive references to Jews as the “Chosen People”?
No, no, and no. Not even close. Not to mention some of the scumbags posting right here on this blog like markus, coisty and mikem.
Buddy, as usual, has it right: “schtick”.
Gary –right, bantering for the edge in a semi-hostile interview is one thing, but as you say there’s no doubt that there’s a world of difference in an Ann Coulter and say a Jimmy Carter. She mocks everybody–including her own, but she knows who the enemy is. Those others you mention are different. Like her or not, you’ll never see her dissembling on an intifada, or being diplomatic with terrorist goons.
Well, this confirms that even those I consider among the best and the brightest (that’s you, Roger and Michael) can be had by their own reflexive buttons. Guys, she was messing with Deutch, especially once she saw he was rising to the bait. She starts by dangling the line about the Republican National Convention “They’re happy. They’re Christian.”…. The giveaway is where she tries to say “Whenever I am harangued by ” and Deutch continues his harangue. From that point forward she sets the hook and makes Deutch look the fool. And having just come from ThinkProgress where their panties are in a twist over Mitch McConnell being mean to Graeme Foster, I don’t see too much difference in all the high dudgeon on this thread. “People were OFFENDED!”. Oh the horror.
BTW, check James Hagee’s address to AIPAC this past March. He makes it clear that he and a lot of other “Christian Zionists” believe that the Jews are G_d’s Chosen People with the special relationship that implies, and don’t need to be converted to Christianity, thank-you-very-much. There are apparently 10′s of millions of members in Hagee’s group Christians United for Israel.
Michael J. Totten wrote: “The Al Qaeda terrorists in Ramadi, where I recently returned from, were found with massive amounts of drugs and pornography.”
As I recall, when we ran the Taliban and al Qaeda out of Tora Bora we found porn and drugs there, too.
We also found them in Najaf in 2004 after we ejected al Sadr’s Madhi Army. An Iraqi newspaper article mentioned thousands of empty beer cans, which in less serious times would strike me as hilarious.
Our enemy isn’t Islam per se, but Muslims terrorizing in the name of Islam, and Muslims who support or tolerate terrorism out of religious pride, ethnic pride, anti-Americanism, nationalism, or tribalism.
Even the most westernized Muslims seem to stand a little taller at the idea of their “brothers” taking on the marines, conveniently disregarding the fact that their “brothers” also murder women and children by the tens of thousands.
As for Ann Coulter: The worst thing anybody could do to her is to not react. Everybody is playing right into her hands, the way they always do. It’s a ritual now. She comes out with a book, says something “outrageous,” and her sales go through the roof.
What you need to do, Mr. Totten, is start saying that all Iraqis are “faggots” who need to come to Christ.
Woo-hoo! You’ll be a household name in no time.
“As for Ann Coulter: The worst thing anybody could do to her is to not react. Everybody is playing right into her hands, the way they always do. It’s a ritual now. She comes out with a book, says something “outrageous,” and her sales go through the roof.”
Tom, the only thing wrong with this paragraph is that people still need to be reminded of it. As the old but always reliable cliche goes, “There’s no such thing as bad publicity”.
Ann Coulter is interested in one thing: Promoting herself. She is obnoxious and more often than not she reinforces negative stereotypes of conservatives as intolerant and selfish and reactionary.
She is about as funny as a heart attack.
“Whats next we accuse her of being a Nazi?”
Michael Savage pretty much did this last night.
Rush, Savage, Hannity, O’Rielly, Coulter. What do they all have in common??
Media Matters is targeting them all, very heavily lately.
Yeah, what Ann Coulter said was outrageous, rude, and inconsiderate.
AND?
Rush, Savage, Hannity, O’Rielly, Coulter. What do they all have in common?? Media Matters is targeting them all, very heavily lately.
They also reinforce negative stereotypes of conservatives even when they aren’t being misquoted.
Especially Michael Savage. The man is contemptible.
The biggest talking head media conservatives are almost all annoying and obnoxious. Blogosphere conservatives are much smarter, more reasonable, and more interesting.
link
“The biggest talking head media conservatives are almost all annoying and obnoxious. Blogosphere conservatives are much smarter, more reasonable, and more interesting.”
MJT – you are correct.
I’m just a little suprised at the outrage being expressed that they are saying annoying, obnoxious, and outrageous things. Especially from some of the smarter, more reasonable, and more interesting folks.
one thing about Coulter: she isn’t nuanced.
She has a lot in common with Ayaan Hirsi Ali; and Phyllis Chesler.
It is hard to be polite and nuanced, Michael Totten, when you are a WOMAN and see a burqa future for your grand daughters.
one of the modernizing impulses of Islam was, for sure, Naziism. But have you considered that Naziism fits in well with intellectual Islam?? And THAT is why is was so immediately embraced by post socialist Islam?? Part of it is, of course, hating Jews and other secret cabals that run the world. But the other is the high status given to all male warrior bands and war and destruction. (Thus the overwhelming interest in Porn Woman in Allah’s Army)
There is a very large and deep crevass between Islam on the one side, and Christianity and Judaism on the other.
Also, there is a complicating factor: the Third world is dominated by Islam (I wonder why????); and now, with TV and the ‘net, and the human sins of envy and anger, it can take on a nuanced, tolerant, and therefore weak First World.
heather:
I disagree, Ayaan Hirsi Ali has to face real danger. The only thing Ann has to worry about is how to spend her money.
Terrye,
I am not facing death by fatwa either. But I can see that there will be a time when nuance is simply weakness.
We still live in a world where it is wise to look at all sides of an argument, and keep the level of discourse to conversation.
It would be nice to think that we can keep it this way, wouldn’t it?
also, I do wish the Jewish religion would produce missionaries. it has done so before (OK, long ago), and should do so again. Why leave it up to Christians and Mormons?
One archaeological note: I read somewhere that very early Christian churches were positioned like right across the street from synagogues, very handy for your everyday evangelistic effort. The first Christians were Jews, and secondarily, Judaized Romans.
Heather, since we’re laying out these items of history, we have to ask, where in the world was European Christianity when push really came to shove, from 1935-45? The proselytizers disappeared in a hurry right when they were needed–to form barriers around those synagogues. There was mention upthread of the wonderful things Pope John Paul II did–but nothing on why he did it–which was at least in part to try to mend the rip in Judao-Christianity that Pope Pius XII let happen. I’ve heard all the arguments as to why he didn’t do more–but the fact remains he didn’t, and what happened happened, and there’s nowhere to go with it but forward, and hope time lasts long enough to heal the wound. Anyway, this is the thing that moral idiots like Jimmy Carter–who fancies hisself a spiritual being–just refuse to admit–that in the end, Israel has pretty solid evidence that to Israel the issue of survival is unique.
Anyway, Coulter will be on CNBC’s Larry Kudlow Show today at 7PM EST. Kudlow has criticized her often in the past–he says the same thing as many upthread have said, that she’s toxic to swing voters–so it should be quite an interview. CNBC has been playing the electric parts of the DD interview all day, and blurbing this Kudlow appearance. You know–NBC–so it won’t be a Coulter puff piece.
A couple of last thoughts on Coulter:
1) Don’t over react and say that she doesn’t want you in America. That’s dumb. She just thinks that you’d be better if you were a Christian. Heck, atheists think Christians would be better if they swore off their religion.
2) She is strident and often shrill and I can only take her in relatively small doses, BUT, it’s delicious to see the left get some of it’s own back (yes I mean you Democrats)
3) Hot? I don’t see it.
Islam isn’t the enemy. It is the same old fascism in Islamic drag.
In Indonesia 2003 Pew found that over 58% of the muslim population had good or great confidence in Bin Laden. Luckily for the enemy isn’t Islam folks that number plummeted to a mere 36% in 2005 the popped back up to 38% in 2006.
The Pillpopping, Porno Loving, Muslims were not around for the Armenian Genocide. Nor were they around for the Hindu Kush episode or any of the other numerous forays of Islamic imperialism.
Before we claim that Islam is not the enemy shouldn’t a person be forced to explain Mohammeds behavior?
Luckily for the enemy isn’t Islam folks, that number plummeted to a mere 36% in 2005 then popped back up to 38% in 2006.
well, it’s wide –let’s hope it ain’t deep. I mean, most Americans would probably answer yes to a poll question, “Don’t you just LOVE Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Bonny & Clyde?”
I agree with Tom W: Remember when your children did outrageous things to get your attention? And how you finally learned to ignore it? Remember when you perfected (no pun intended) the art of not getting hooked in a myriad of ways?
It’s the kiss of death to an attention junkie.
This is the antidote to Ann’s entitled free speech:Free non-attention…. freely exercised yawns….
Who does she take us for anyway? Obviously from the way we recoil, she takes us for very easily riled reactives who give her a great deal more power than even she knows she deserves.
well, it’s wide –let’s hope it ain’t deep. I mean, most Americans would probably answer yes to a poll question, “Don’t you just LOVE Jesse James, Billy the Kid, and Bonny & Clyde?”
Yes we might given all the years that have gone by and the romantic notion of those criminals.
But Bin Laden was a few orders of magnitude worse than any of those monsters and he had overwhelming popularity in a supposedly “moderate” Islamic nation. And heck the smoke was still rising over the deaths of 3,000 innocents and the Moderates were cheering. Sorry but I have not forgotten.
What is depressing is that whenever that statistic comes up those folks claiming that Islam is moderate seem to disappear.
a stranger is standing on the edge of a cliff. you have no idea what he has in mind. do you scream, hoping to save him from a trance-like suicide, or do you stay silent, afraid to scare him over the edge–and hoping that if time doesn’t end right there, a fix will materialize?
and what if you’re chained to him, like those guys in O Brother Where Art Thou?
Roger & Michael,
As always, Coulter is about being as offensive as is humanly possible. She’s in this to shock and offend, not argue rationally. I don’t like her work for this reason. It is the reason she is popular, as many conservatives love seeing her trash political correctness and give hard core liberals a taste of their own medicine.
I can’t really disagree with her fundamental point – I don’t believe Judaism is the whole story myself. That’s why I am a Christian, and not a Jew. (Also, I like cheeseburgers) Ideally, Jews should convert en masse to Christianity, but I doubt that’s going to happen. I would of course oppose any use of force or coercion to achieve that goal. It’s not about the goal, it’s about the means used to achieve it.
It is the reason she is popular, as many conservatives love seeing her trash political correctness and give hard core liberals a taste of their own medicine.
Cannot speak for others but I can say that she is popular with me because she fights fire with fire. She understands the stakes and takes the fight directly towards the enemy. Yes the left is the enemy in this country. The Islamists for all their power cannot defeat us unless the left forces us to put down our hands.
I don’t see that comprimise gets us anything other than closer to the view point of someone as corrosive to personal freedom, true personal freedom, as Hillary Clinton or Obama.
The right needs to adopt the tactics of the left. Our ends differ but it is obvious that the tactics of the left are much more effective than those of the right.
The soft right side of the aisle advocates that we speak in soft tones and that we embrace our enemies in dialog because somehow the middle will be impressed by our reasonableness.
The left side of the aisle calls our moderates Nazis, throws bombs, tears down every single institution and yet they are nearly in control of every single power center in the United States, Universities, TV, Newspapers, Blogs, Senate, House and now perhaps the Presidency.
All the while we have been burdened by a inarticulate President who reached out constantly to the worst of the otherside…both Muslim and Democrat. He was slapped down every single time except when something was gained for the enemy by his comprimise. That gain was slurped up by the enemy while they giggled up their sleeves at our weakness. They made no counter offers.
Enough.
It is hard to be polite and nuanced, Michael Totten, when you are a WOMAN and see a burqa future for your grand daughters.
I’m a woman, and it is hard to be nuanced about Islamism, a fascist, apartheid political system that does specifically target women.
But if you want to defeat an enemy, you have to know who the enemy is, and the enemy is not every Muslim on the planet.
The enemy is also not every leftist, atheist or democrat on the planet. If you’re going to criticize the left for their tolerance of terrorists like Arafat, you’d also have to criticize the right for their tolerance of terror-supporting Saudis. Each side can, if they choose to, continually beat each other over these divisive issues. I’m sure the Islamists and the terror supporters are really happy to see us do that.
(So would Coulter and Moore’s agents. I wonder if they’re represented by the same group. In any case, I’ll bet they both probably laugh all the way to the same bank.)
United we stand, divided we fall. Nuance isn’t our weakness. Our obsession with these divisive left vs. right, Coulter vs. Moore, ‘culture wars’ is our weakness.
Johnny Cabral – Thx for posting the John Paul letter. “In a long Papal encyclical (Letter) he clearly stated that the divine covenant of the Jews is eternal and valid. ROMA DICTA. Rome has spoken and the Church is bound by this truth.
Game set and match.”
Indeed.
But if you want to defeat an enemy, you have to know who the enemy is, and the enemy is not every Muslim on the planet.
No doubt. No one ever said that every single muslim is the enemy. We have stated repeatedly that it is Islam that is the problem. Not every single German was the problem in WW2, nor indeed every single Nazi. Only the ones committed enough to fight…but the philosophy was corrupt.
So is Islam.
Actually, for me, nuance is absolutely not in the cards when it comes to Islam. The Islamic societies of the world are poor, tribal, ignorant, and place women at the bottom of all of that. There is no such thing as ‘freedom’ within Islam. Islam IS ‘submission’, submission to a distant, terrifying, un-human Allah who used Mohammed as a stenographer, in order to proclaim His orders to the world.
Moses had CONVERSATIONS with G-d, he ARGUED with G-d, and when G-d made the world, He thought it was GOOD. And reasonable. G-d made agreements, COVENANTS with his people, and with the Crucifixion, G-d made a COVENANT with ALL the world’s people.
Quite different from ol’Allah, eh? Jihad is at the core of Islam, and all of us infidels exist in the House of War. Like it or not, the good Muslim’s job is to cover the world with the House of Submission.
And yep, there are lots of nice people in this world. Most of we humans are pretty nice, and we would – most of us – prefer to live a peaceful life. HOWEVER. We are ALSO driven by IDEAS.
Ideas matter.
Not every single German was the problem in WW2, nor indeed every single Nazi. Only the ones committed enough to fight…but the philosophy was corrupt.
True. But what would have been more effective during WW2 – to blame German culture and philosophy for the Nazi phenomenon, to rail and rage whenever someone suggested celebrating Octoberfest or eating hot dogs and beer, to expel anyone who identifies their heritage as German, to condemn any teacher who discussed Nietzsche and to relentlessly curse and criticize any and every expression of German culture, insisting that it be replaced with our own?
Or, should we have waged an ideological war against the enemy’s financial and military leaders, while using our military to dismantle the enemy’s financial and military infrastructure?
If we see the problem as being “Islam”, then we’ll spin our wheels attacking everything about “Islam” , instead of attacking the elites who are part of the fascist political infrastructure. The last time we dealt with this kind of fascism, we chose to attack the military and financial infrastructure, which worked pretty well.
Elites of any society are successful because they express the ideals and ideas of that society. You can attack the elites, even destroy them, but other people in that society will replace them… and their ideas. When it comes to Germany, by the end of WWII, every single German – elite and non elite – understood – that trying to take over the world was a loser of any idea. It took a blast furnace to teach that lesson to all those people.
I would really prefer to avoid that method of pedagogy.
The issue with Islam is that if any muslim becomes an ‘apostate’ – like Ayaab Hirsi Ali – she or he has committed a real sin against Allah, and therefore can be murdered by ANY faithful muslim. That is why not many muslims stop being muslim. Somehow, this particular rule must be overthrown. And I don’t know how, given the reality of Allah’s orders to the House of Submission.
The fact is, the societies that have not succeeded since WWII are Islamic. Compare the lands of the Islamic Caliphate with those of – say – the Hindu or the Confucian (not to mention the Jewish or the Christian) societies. The poorest group in India is Muslim – no big surprise there -
Little Israel has produced (since 1948) some 159 nobel prize winners, and it simply churns out scientific/technological discoveries – despite existing on a war footing for the past 60 years.
In all of Islam, there is NOT ONE GREAT OR EVEN MEDIUM GREAT university. Not one Islamic nation has produced any discovery worthy of a patent. And how many books are printed in The Great House of Submission??? Compared to anywhere else in the world? Pretty much none. The “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is – for goodness sake – a BEST SELLER in The House of Submission.
There is another option, along with blast furnace time – and that is, environmentalism… stop sending money to the Middle East. Every time I fill the tank in my car, I think of that.
Ann Coulter is just plain stupid.
She says that Jews have to live by rules and that Christians are fast tracked? It is therefore easier to be Christian?
But why?
According to her logic it is easier to be a Christian, because you can break all the rules of the bible as long as you believe that Jesus saves your soul if you ask…no matter what. So that should make it okay to sin all you want because you are already saved.
Ann? Are Hitler and Torquemada in Heaven because he accepted Jesus?
According to to the gospel of Ann, the answer is yes, Hitler and Torquemada go to Heaven. And they are probably saving the empty pew seat between them for Ann whenever she gets there.
Heather, you might be more myopic than Ann Coulter.
Your measure of success for nations is birdbrained. Patents? Really? Books? I am not sure of the factual accuracy of Islamic nations not being advanced in their contributions to the modern world, by your measure that is, maybe you could supply some actual research to back it up.
But until then, I’ll assume there is some accuracy to your interpretation of the miserable state of Islamic Nations, especially in the Middle East. What I ask of you is, do you know WHY these nations might be in such bad condition?
Do you know much about the history of Iran, and WHY their Islamic revolution happened? Isn’t it funny that you contextualize the inferiority of Islamic nations as a 20th century phenomena? Funny how it seems to coincide with the Elite Nations of the World turning their eyes the oil fields of the Middle East.
Oh, calm down. I almost always agree with you, but saying that “Coulter is a cross between some nutcase passing out Jews for Jesus literature on Hollywood Boulevard and the Islamists she says she hates” is absurd.
In that exchange with Donny Deutsch, she was set up by that twit and responded by being willfully provocative (and trying to be funny).
True. But what would have been more effective during WW2 – to blame German culture and philosophy for the Nazi phenomenon, to rail and rage whenever someone suggested celebrating Octoberfest or eating hot dogs and beer, to expel anyone who identifies their heritage as German, to condemn any teacher who discussed Nietzsche and to relentlessly curse and criticize any and every expression of German culture, insisting that it be replaced with our own?
Nazism and Islam are both political philosophies. We defeated Nazism by attacking the people who were willing to fight to expand that philosophy and then we attacked the philosophy itself. No one is suggesting that we attack Arab Culture, indeed we are not suggesting that we limit our attacks against Arabs since not only Arabs hold to the tenets of the corrupt philosophy known as Islam. And more importantly not only Arabs are willing to fight to expand this corrupt philosophy.
According to her logic it is easier to be a Christian, because you can break all the rules of the bible as long as you believe that Jesus saves your soul if you ask…no matter what. So that should make it OK to sin all you want because you are already saved.
And that is just how easy it is…sorry to burst your bubble but being a Christian means only accepting Jesus into your heart. We are indeed all sinners and indeed Jesus loves us all. Sorry.
But until then, I’ll assume there is some accuracy to your interpretation of the miserable state of Islamic Nations, especially in the Middle East. What I ask of you is, do you know WHY these nations might be in such bad condition?
Ah well then if the Middle East Nations were truly up to the task of being equal why then would they be blaming anyone but themselves for their piss poor performance? Had we not shown them how to take the oil out of the ground and had not Russia shown them how to steal our labor most of those Nations would still be riding camels and living in tents. Perhaps you consider that to be an advanced form of living but the onus is on you to prove it.
I am sick to death of hearing how it is all the fault of this or that European Nation that this or that piss poor excuse of a nation is piss poor. Let me tell you a secret. In the West making excuses is considered bad form. We treat folks who make excuses with pity…which isn’t a good thing.
If you didnt make the jump to the modern age then it is no ones fault but your own in the scheme of things.
producing technology that requires patents is an indicator of THINKING; you know, REASONING. Just like reading, and writing books. Even the Muslim world’s favorite best seller, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” was not written by a Muslim.. it was written by some Russians back in the 19th Century.
So, it does matter, using such metrics to indicate success or failure. And, I might point out, China and India, and the Overseas Chinese are doing quite well today, despite those eeeeevvviiiil colonial powers of the 19th and 20th century, (and in China’s case, a century of civil war and communism, and other horrors.)
Iran has blown away its chance to be a part of the First World. The Mullahs took out the Shah and thus retained their feudal land powers and wealth (which is what they wanted); and then torturing and murdering the B’hai was such a great idea. And blaming their entire failure on … what – a failed communist revolution back in the early 50′s? Ahhh. Such babies, those Iranians are. They DO know how to whine and complain and blame everyone else for their problems, don’t they?
I still remember, the crowds of marching Iranian women, revolutionary leaders every one of them, covered in chadors, in black, chanting for the glorious new world that Khomeini was instituting. At the time, Iran’s economy was equivalent to a poor European country. Today, of course (despite the vaunted Iranian culture and history), it is down there with Gaza. They can’t even provide their own population with cheap oil. Great going, folks.
also… check out Iran’s idea of “being modern”: having a Big Bomb that was developed by the First World, big enough so Iran can destroy Israel, the Little Satan; dominate the Middle East and its oil; and therefore destroy the Big Satan, thus purifying the world and welcoming to earth the whatever Imam.
Nice
I’m not a fan of Donny Deutsch’s but I’m in marketing so sometimes I check it out (as painful as it might be). This business model was about “Being Extreme Makes Millions.”
If you think she did this to be purposely provocative about Jews/Christians, maybe you should watch it – that’s not how I read it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18aYlBNjW_0&mode=related&search=
Actually Heather, I’m not sure what Iran charged their own people for oil before the Shah, but I do know that their oil profits were shared generously with the people. AND that Iran WAS on its’ way to success, BUT because the major oil palyer of the West, both governments and corporations, DID NOT like the fact that they had to negotiate oil prices with the IRANIAN GOVERNMENT at the time. AND WE DID NOT LIKE the fact that we could only negotiate with a NON-PUPPET IRANIAN government. So what did we do? We helped put the SHAH, basically an idiot playboy – so much for popularly elected leader and democracy – into power. THAT IS ONE OF MANY factors that the WEST, that would be us and not them, have contributed ISLAMIC nations NOT performing so well. WE generally strip them of their resources and abilities. WHINING BABIES? Please. I’m no fan of the current governmental structure of Iran, but who made them that way. Iran was a very Westernized and potentially forward thinking nation. Ripe for progress. But alas do you remember the atrocities committed by the Shah’s government that drove the population from a relatively and forward moving free society to what they are now?
I am not a Christian, but I do understand the idea of Jesus’s GRACE for all sinners – and it is a beautiful concept. BUT if I were a Christian, I would be offended by Ann Coulter’s interpretation of Christianity as she STRONGLY IMPLIED: JESUS is the EASY button for your behavior. But, heh heh, that idea to me is a bit more NUANCED than Coulter communicate’s its’ truer meaning. Her tone and implication within the context of the argument treated that idea glibly as if she were saying SIN ALL YOU WANT AND ENJOY IT because IT DOESN’t MATTER WHAT WE DO ON EARTH as long as we say YES to JESUS. Her interpretation of Grace seems to imply sinning with impunity. Most Christians I know don’t seem to like the idea of abusing that GRACE.
Please. I’m no fan of the current governmental structure of Iran, but who made them that way.
Well, let’s just make crime legal everywhere–because somebody somewhere made every criminal “that way”.
Hoombop, nobody around here has any animus toward the people of Iran. What heather is saying is true, that the government is the problem, that the one-size fits-allness of Sharia clearly makes different results than the west’s open inquiry tradition.
The west started making better lives for its people precisely when it separated church & state and thereby released science to go where it could.
You inadvertently admit as much yourself, when you say that Iran was once and recently “forward-looking” –well, that would have been under the Shah, right?
And your complaint against the Shah’s human-rights violations–how much of that is true and how much is propaganda? I mean the degree & severity of the Shah’s defensive war against the rebels–has it or has it not been over-hyped by the western left?
Have you ever researched the question? What about the mass executions and political prisons that sprang up instantly under the new boss Khomeini?
Have you looked into how the Shah became the Carter admin’s target to promote his ‘human rights’ theme, right when the Shah was facing the Islamist/socialist insurgency being run by Khomeini from Paris?
One more thing–to call every ally of anybody anywhere a “puppet government” is straight out of Lenin 101 and is wearing a little thin.
If you want to criticize the fall of USSR-friendly Mossedegh, then go ahead–yes, the “great game” between the spheres of USSR & USA did result in a lot of superpower meddling in the so-called third world, and it’s regrettable.
So, I ask you to keep in mind the historical context–who was the world-domination-intent aggressive force, and who was essentially the defensive “containment” force?
IOW, USA had a choice, to engage USSR on the terms it created, or to withdraw, and cede to USSR whatever lands it wanted to put under its control–and this assuredly included all the lands enroute to the warm waters of the Persian Gulf.
Had USSR’s plans not been thwarted by USA resistance, the oil riches of the middle east would entered the USSR asset base–and there would have been no bankrupting fall of world communism, no bloodless way to stop 20th-century fascism from taking permanent hold of the globe.
The Shah was an ally of the USA, and Jimmy Carter–and the Marxists in his brain-trust–brought him down. The new boss then repaid Carter with the hostage-taking, which had the one good effect of finally opening the little zealot’s eyes for him–too late for peace in the world, too late for Carter’s presidency, too late for the Shah, too late to nip Jihad in the bud, and too late for the people of Iran.
All these terrible effects were enabled by a world public opinion mesmerized by the power of such decontexted stand-alone bumper-sticker slurs as “puppet government”.
Heather is right–ideas matter. And ideas are carried with words.
Lastly, “power-politics” is a fact of life, at least in this little corner of the universe. You may not be interested in power politics, but power politics is surely interested in you.
Alternate history, where the USA wasn’t horribly led in the 70s, might have us–all of us, everywhere on the planet–today enjoying a peaceful, prosperous world devoid of serious conflict.
Think about it.
THAT IS ONE OF MANY factors that the WEST, that would be us and not them, have contributed ISLAMIC nations NOT performing so well. WE generally strip them of their resources and abilities. WHINING BABIES? Please
Yes exactly whining babies…waaaa the mean man outmanuevered me and stole my stuff. Its not fair. Waaaaaaaaaaa…..
The funny thing about this is that at the same time that you declare such societies to be equal to the West you complain that we are unfair to them. How can equals be unfair?
Hoombop
do you know WHY these nations might be in such bad condition?
The Arab Human Development report written by Arabs, for Arabs, concludes that the causes, in majority, are internal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Human_Development_Report
WE generally strip them of their resources and abilities.
Oil was just at $80 a barrel. Who exactly is being stripped here?
You might want to ditch the belief that third worlders are dumb sheep with no minds of their own. In fact, they are perfectly capable of screwing up their own countries with no help from the West – and they do so with relentless determination.
excellent grab, Boojum. You’re right –if hoombop (jeez–these handles, I feel like Little Anthony & the Imperials–isn’t anybody named “doo-wop”?) really wanted to help the people of the third world, he’d grow up and quit drinking that red koolaid.
Remember how the racial superiorists ignored each other’s races in order to form that Axis a few decades back? Well, they’re baaack.