The new poll in Aghanistan which finds 87% of Afghans saying the US-led overthrow of the Taliban was a good thing and 9% a bad thing, not to mention 77% saying Afghanistan is heading a good direction and 6% in a bad one, should be a wake-up call for the reactionary American media. (and I almost never use bold face.)
Why?
Because I would bet my house that the figures in Iraq would be much closer to this (not that they are that bad anyway) if our media was not hell-bent on tearing down our actions there. We have been losing the war at home, not the war in Iraq. Of course there will be more dissension in that country from fascist Sunni groups and desperate/psychotic Islamists, but these factions are almost all playing to the world audience. That is their only hope for victory. Meanwhile, in poor, forgotten Afghanistan, immense progress has been made toward democracy (and, yes, yes, there are still poppy fields and war lords and yadda yadda, but grow up. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Or even ten years.)
So my suggestion to the fuddy-duddy progressives mourning 1968 is to live in 2005. Remember what your shrinks told you – live in the now. And one other reminder, just the other day Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri told us that America is failing in Afghanistan. Obviously we’re not. We’re not failing in Iraq either unless you make us. Which side are you on? … Which side are you on?
(via Barcepundit)
But, Roger! According to the media, we’re not really at war (because police actions are all that’s needed), or we’re in the wrong war (because Iraq was home only to happy children flying kites), or this war was brought about by a lie (because there’s no way Bush could be intelligent enough to see the danger we face).
Is it any wonder newspaper subscription rates are falling like broken kites?
My hunch is that the majority of Americans would be strongly for the war if they possessed the true facts. How many of them even begin to know of our successes with the indigenous population? I know that Iím may sound like a broken record, but just do the simple math. There are about twenty seven million people living in Iraq. The terrorists are able to murder far less than one percent of the general population. Obviously, these thugs are slowing down the rebuilding project—but still life goes on. What is so complicated to understand? The war was won long ago. We are only doing a difficult clean up job.
No doubt, if your’re willing to mortgage our children’s future, you can brighten the lives of people in other countries temporarily.
We’re spending twice as much a year in Iraq as we spend on welfare in America. Congress is slashing food stamps, childhood nutrition programs and student loans to pay for this misadventure.
Which side am I on?
America’s side.
The return of isolationism. How sad when leftists begin to sound like Pat sBuchanan.
ìWhich side am I on?
America’s side.î
Wow, an American Firster! Where have you been hiding? The prewar days of WWII were so long ago. Please say hello for me to Charles Lindberg and the Rev. Charles E. Coughlin. Alas, we live on a very small planet where such isolationism is ludicrous. This was true when the American first movement unwittingly aided Adolph Hitler. It is even more true today in our global struggle against Islamic nihilism.
Hey Dave,
Monkeybottom is no America firster. He’s just learned some new cant to spew in an attempt to hide his loathing for America.
Hey mboy, did you ever notice that the poorest state in the US has a higher standard of living than a middle class Swede? It was all over the web a few months ago…oh, right, that’s outside your attention span.
By the by, did it ever occur to you the nutrition, paying for education and the like are more properly the responsibility of the individual? No, I didn’t think so.
Just a reminder to the bleeding-heart conservatives, here’s 3 million children a year we could be saving from horrible deaths for less than 5% of what we’re spending in Iraq:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/GlobalHealth/Pri_Diseases/ADI/default.htm
But, as Halliburton and Bechtel couldn’t take their cut…we’ll probably never get around to saving them.
mobyboy
We’re spending twice as much a year in Iraq as we spend on welfare in America.
But, as Halliburton and Bechtel couldn’t take their cut…we’ll probably never get around to saving them.
You are slipping out of character again. Remember, you are supposedly a middle-aged, life-long, fiscally conservative Republican.
Is this what Soros gets for his money? Show a little pride in your work, dammit!
MB,
Just a reminder to the bleeding-heart conservatives, here’s 3 million children a year we could be saving from horrible deaths for less than 5% of what we’re spending in Iraq:
Yeah, lots of African countries are corrupt little shitholes. I blame it on the socialists and progressives. An invasion would no doubt do them good but I don’t see one on the horizon.
Just a reminder to the bleeding-heart conservatives, here’s 3 million children a year we could be saving from horrible deaths for less than 5% of what we’re spending in Iraq
Complete bullshit. Treatment for diarrhea is readily available and cheap, and would be provided to these children already if they weren’t living in, as Chuck notes, corrupt little shitholes.
The best thing America can do to help these kids is what it has done in Afghanistan and Iraq: Remove the dictators and help the people set up a functioning democracy.
America is already providing aid all over the place. Long term it doesn’t help, it just breeds more corruption.
The annual U.S. budget for Overseas Operations is about $25 billion a year(25% of what Iraq is costing a year).
Out of that $25 billion, $5 billion a year goes to Israel and Egypt if they don’t fight each other.
Another $5 billion a year goes to U.S. Embassy operations/construction/security.
Out of the remaining $15 billion, most goes to arming “friendly” countries, very little actually goes to fighting diseases and poverty…
Folks, I wouldn’t waste time arguing with a liar. Ain’t worth it.
I am no America’s side.
That is why I believe in demcoracy and don’t like the idea of pnmadering to mass murdering dictators who try to kill presidents, ignore cease fires and fund international terrorism.
Monkyboy don’t be stupid…. The US provides 60% of all the food aid in the world. We provide most of the aid when there are disasters like the tsunami because we are one of the few countries with the logistical support to do so.
I heard Russia is selling more arms to Iran, go yell at them for awhile. But then again I remember that when it came to France selling arms to geonicidal maniacs in Africa or Saddam Hussein the left was silent. Very much so. The poor only matter to people like monky boy when they can use their suffering for personal or politcal advantage. Other than they can die a slow ugly death without a whimper from the Bushbashers.
I heard Bono say that he respected Bush because unlike so many other westerners who talk about the poor of Africa Bush actually walks the walk and had so far done moe to aid the poor of Africa than any other American president in history. I guess that means Bono is a neocon.
As for our future, the same people ranting at Bush today would have blamed him for not going to Iraq if there had been another attack and any question at all as to what Iraq’s part was in it. They want it both ways and refuse to ever assume responsibility.
That should be I am ON America’s side.
“Congress is slashing food stamps, childhood nutrition programs and student loans to pay for this misadventure.
Which side am I on?”
Ah! It’s your student loan you are worried about,don’t bother, a degree in Surf Management is a bimmer anyway.
China and Japan provided more aid money to the Pakistan earthquake victims than the U.S. did. Another home run from the team trying to win over the Muslim world.
The U.S. is generous in food donations, but few countries face famine these days. It is a good way to dump all the food government supported red state farmers grow, though.
If there ain’t a buck in for a Repunlican supporter…it doesn’t happen.
Roger says,
“Because I would bet my house that the figures in Iraq would be much closer to this (not that they are that bad anyway) if our media was not hell-bent on tearing down our actions there.”
If, as it appears, you are asserting that polling figures IN Iraq would be closer to these polling figures in Afghanistan were it not for our (the US) media, I would happily take your bet. Do you think the perspective of a signfificant number of Iraqis is shaped by the US media as opposed to, say, Iraqi media, other Arab media, and simply looking out their windows?
What kind of influence do you think the US media has on Iraqi attitudes regarding their own country?
Monkyboy has learned from the “It takes an old man to sing an old song thread” where she pushed this line as an afterthought.Having been whacked on the side of the head by one of Howie’s aides, she is getting her talking points in the right order.
Another dime a line Demobot,I guese the Democrats really have adopted running away from Iraq as a policy.
“China and Japan provided more aid money to the Pakistan earthquake victims than the U.S. did. Another home run from the team trying to win over the Muslim world.”
Why didn’t you volunteer to work in Pakistan Monkyboy?
John, as long as you’re here anyway, send oyuwari. It’s COLD out there.
Another dime a line Demobot,I guese the Democrats really have adopted running away from Iraq as a policy.–PeterUK
Oh I hope so. I have long argued that they are a doomed force with no remaining intellectual vigah as their last real LEADER might have said. The sooner they volunteer to go over the last cliff along with their rabid and tawdry ‘progressive’ hoardes, the sooner a new and decent alternative Party can be constructed.
The only function they serve now is as a ‘place holder’, wherein they take up physical and theoretical space that as long as they exist cannot be occupied by a valid, forward looking, and SANE small ‘l’ liberal offering.
Their continued existence is detrimental to the whole ‘political’ system.
“China and Japan provided more aid money to the Pakistan earthquake victims than the U.S. did. Another home run from the team trying to win over the Muslim world.”
“Why didn’t you volunteer to work in Pakistan Monkyboy?”
‘Cause Manque Bot knows there’s no pizza delivery
in that part of the world.
I don’t think Afghanistan would be so far along if we hadn’t gone to Iraq. Bush was the Pied Piper leading al Qaeda’s energies out of the hiding places in Afghanistan to the flat desert terrain of Iraq.
And even Iraq is going well enough that the Democrats feel safe in calling for our withdrawal. They see it’s going to happen soon enough anyway so might as well cash in.
It’s just a ploy so that Bush doesn’t get the credit.
Roger: This is one of your best posts–ever! The Democrats and their lap dogs in the MSM are NOT on America’s side. If America loses, they win. The 1970′s proved that.
John Kerry just yesterday repeated his 1971 winter-soldier libels against our courageous and glorious military, accusing it of terrorizing Iraqi children at night. (Next time, he’ll say that they “are cutting off” ears and noses and attaching electric wires to genitals.) Howard the Coward Dean yesterday said we cannot win. Al Jazeera is having a field day with these libels. And the Democrats and MSM are silent. Disgusting!
“China and Japan provided more aid money to the Pakistan earthquake victims than the U.S. did. Another home run from the team trying to win over the Muslim world.”
‘Cause we all know that private donations don’t count, nor does American military aid. I suppose the Pakistanis would still be waiting if they were waiting for aid to be airlifted in on French helicopters…
If it would reflect well on America, it never happened, right monk?
“Which side am I on?
America’s side.
Posted by: monkyboy [TypeKey Profile Page] at De”
So why say this?
“China and Japan provided more aid money to the Pakistan earthquake victims than the U.S. did. Another home run from the team trying to win over the Muslim world.”
When it is an outright lie.
Is this in the same category as Monkyboy’s claim to have been a Republican for over 20 years?
–No doubt, if your’re willing to mortgage our children’s future, you can brighten the lives of people in other countries temporarily.
We’re spending twice as much a year in Iraq as we spend on welfare in America. Congress is slashing food stamps, childhood nutrition programs and student loans to pay for this misadventure.
—-
My parents and my future was mortgaged for WWIII – the Cold War, why should theirs be any different?
Congress should cut food stamps – food stamps are making the poor fat. IIRC, the numbers are based on a basket of goods in 1948 – food costs much less to produce now. There’s a very intriguing study out there supporting this, but remember when they tried to cut it the last time? AG/Biz/goo-goos were against it.
Let me guess on childrens’ nutrition, ketchup is a veggie.
You want public unis to be more affordable to everyone? Get Uncle Sam out of the biz of subsidizing everyone, return the risk to the banks. Costs went up after Uncle Sam took the risks out of the banks’ hands in the 60s and put it in my pocket.
There a few charts out there about that, too.
Roger:
I am just as guilty as everyone else in allowing MB to disrupt every thread but it is about time we started ignoring him. This is not about ignoring posters who we might disagree with. It is his tactic of throwing out disjointed attacks, swithching the subject rather then responding to arguments. The subject was the media and Iraq and he has switched the topic to U.S. foreign aid. He does not come to this site to argue and exchange idea’s. He comes here to manipulate the thread, run to another topic when he has run out of bumber sticker slogans on the subject at hand, ignore challenges to his arguments, and basically jerk everyone here around. He is not here for debate. Roger should not ban him. We should ignore him, or at least limit our responses to yawns. If I want to see what the Kos Kids think I would go to that site. we all know he is not a conservative who is trying to bring other conservatives back to their senses becuase every argument and slogan he spews out is straight off the International A.N.S.W.E.R. talking points sheet. I don’t mind having someone take my arguments and take them apart. It helps me refine my argument and sharpens my skills. But this is boiling done to “your mother is fat” followed by “your mother is a fascist” followed by “your mother likes to kill innocent babies”. Repeating slogans and topic hopping gets boring and he needs to be ignored.
“You’re mama’s a snowblower.”
I’m glad that there’s a poll finally showing what people have been saying all along, but I don’t think we should get too excited over just one poll. Like in poker, just winning one hand shouldn’t be the goal; it should be to win a good number of them over the long haul and be the last one standing. In other words: Positive trends showing progress, not just single data points. That’s why I’m much more excited over reading stuff like I see at Good News From the Front, Chrenkoff’s site’s successor. Those are trends, in fact are documented positive trends over time. Those stories are what I like telling people about. Not polls. When talking about a poll, you can get into all sorts of nit-pickery like sample size, accuraccy, proper statistical analysis, etc… and you’re still vulnerable to the “lies, damn lies, and statistics” argument, and on top of that, polls are simply opinion anyway. Or rather, attempts to be systematic and scientific about analyzing and extrapolating from small sample sizes prone to biases beyond the poll-taker’s control regarding something (opinions) that’s subjective to begin with. True, it’s important to sample what people think, but concrete examples of progress are what really matters.
Again, don’t get me wrong. I’m pleased to see this poll. And Roger, I know your point wasn’t necessarily the poll itself, but the lack of reportage on it, plus the lack of a similar poll being done in Iraq, but I wanted to go a bit tangental here. We’re so stuck on damn polls, all of us in this country. What about the hard, solid examples of progress? The MSM doesn’t seem to give a damn about reporting those.
My only comment on foreign aid is this, foreign aid is a Bad Thing.
And it’s been obvious to me for years now, that “our” MSM is engaged in propaganda; for the other side.
There ought to be treason trials down the road, for them. I think their behaviour meets the “adhering to the enemy, giving them aid and comfort” criteria.
I agree with El Mundo above – and LarryD’s link should be mandatory reading.
I’m not sure when this golden age of happy talk reporting you guys are pining for occurred.
I did a random search on this day in history and what do I find?
December 9
1965 Newspaper reports on bombing over North Vietnam
An article in the New York Times asserts that the U.S. bombing campaign has neither destabilized North Vietnam’s economy nor appreciably reduced the flow of its forces into South Vietnam.
These observations were strikingly similar to an earlier Defense Intelligence Agency analysis, which concluded that “the idea that destroying, or threatening to destroy, North Vietnam’s industry would pressure Hanoi into calling it quits seems, in retrospect, a colossal misjudgement.“
http://www.historychannel.com/tdih/tdih.jsp?month=10272964&day=10272974&cat=10272949
Apparently monkyboy’s biggest political influences are Jim “fuck the Jews” Baker and Pat “gas the Jews” Buchanan. It’s only those hook-nosed cosmopolitan Trotskyist neocon wirepullers who think it’s actually a good thing that a bloody genocidal monster like Saddam is no longer running Iraq.
I’m a big fan of Israel, Gary, but I don’t think we did that country any favors getting rid of Saddam.
Israel is going to be left holding the bag when the U.S. pulls out of Iraq.
Personally, I would be glad to see Roger ban monkeyboy and everyone who argues with him! What a waste of time and bandwidth. LarryD put up a link to something I haven’t seen before. That is a Good Thing. I come here to learn something new, not to just rehash the same old arguments.
Thanks, Roger, for hosting this.