Saddam is on a hunger strike with eleven other top leaders of his regime, including Tariq Aziz, or so his lawyer reports. The attorney is calling on the Red Cross to intervene on behalf of his client. According to Debka, the Vatican is already lending Aziz religious and legal support. Meanwhile, as a reminder, here are some folks who received somewhat less “support.”
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Roger:
Thus begins Saddam’s attempt to manipulate world opinion. The sad thing is that certain international groups are going to help this murderous thug paint himself as a victim in their efforts to instill a world court or some other form of international law. If Saddam chooses to starve himself to death, so be it. The most important thing is not to let the Hague take over his trial. The 5 year trial of Milosevic has become a farce. The Iraqi government that will be formed will give him a fair trial and will be finished before the Hague gets to their closing arguments. Saddam terrorized Iraq for decades and we must not let the UN and other international groups take the trial away from the victims of Saddam’s terror. The Hague has turned Milosevic into a marytr and we must not let them do the same with Saddam. Italy hung Mussolini and suffered no harm from quick justice. Saddam’s crimes are a fact that can not be denied and if a year from now he is hanging from a tree then justice will have been served. To let the Hague give Saddam the forum to torture his people over a five year period would be a crime. Anyone who claims he is not guilty is a moral idiot.
The Red Cross most assuredly is appalled by Saddam Husseinís past atrocities—but the former Iraqi dictator is also an enemy of the United States. This anti-American organization will therefore find some reason to describe Saddam as a victim of western imperialism. He cannot really be held responsible for his misdeeds. After all, the Arab world would presumably be a land of milk and honey if only the capitalists had not entered the region to steal its oil and the Jews had decided not to oppress the Palestinians. The poor guy was only doing the best he could. George W. Bush and Tony Blair are the real villains. Why havenít they been arrested? And why be so upset about the people in those mass graves? What else could Saddam do to the reactionaries who failed to share his vision of an Iraqi socialist paradise? He is merely a misunderstood Mahatma Ghandi trying to bring peace and justice to his people.
The usual folks will take the usual sides. This will only have an impact because because it will be publicised and used by agenda driven folks to further their own ends. McGreevey writ large?
David Thomson – “but the former Iraqi dictator is also an enemy of the United States”
No, the US made itself an enemy of Saddam. The Iraqi dictator never understood why the US turned against him after all he never did anything to the US – Iran was his main enemy. Even his dispute with Kuwait was linked to Iraq’s sacrifices in the war with Iran.
Kevin P – “The 5 year trial of Milosevic has become a farce.”
It was a farce right from the beginning. The former Serb leader should have been tried by his own people for his crimes against them, but no, the so-called international community insisted on getting to try Milosevic to pave the way for the expansion of the criminal jurisdiction of internationalist elites. The funny thing is they got the big fish they coveted only to find him too slippery to hold. Despite the Tribunal playing the role of policeman, prosecutor and judge they still managed to make a mess of it. So instead of showing the world why we supposedly need international criminal courts they’ve demonstrated once again how corrupt and incompetent these bureaucratic international organisations all seem to be. Five years ago Milosevic was seen as a gangster and a traitor, for selling out Serbs in Krajina, Bosnia and Kosovo, but luckily for him the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia came along and rescued his reputation and now he’s seen as a victim.
I really don’t believe Saddam is capable of going on a hunger strike. He has little tolerance for pain and is afraid of death. I’d say it’s a bluff, and one that can be sustained for only as long as Saddam remains unseen by the media.
… and let’s not forget the verse that goes:
“It’s really the fault of the US, since America supported Saddam in the Iran/Iraq war.”
One way or another, whatever the problem, it’s always America’s fault.
saddam starving himself to death is a good idea. even better if he’s joined by his merry band of brothers in personal destruction. world opinion leaders and marchers should congregate and cheer this unselfish act of penance, and encourage these guys to indeed die of starvation. save us all the nonsense and folderol of giving him his just desserts.
“No, the US made itself an enemy of Saddam. The Iraqi dictator never understood why the US turned against him after all he never did anything to the US – Iran was his main enemy. Even his dispute with Kuwait was linked to Iraq’s sacrifices in the war with Iran.”
BS. Saddam thought he could control 1/3 of the world’s oil reserves. When he refused to have to his forces leave Kuwait, he became America’s enemy.
Cool. Can we get him on an oxygen strike? I’ll chip in the epoxy and tape for the cell door…
I heard Saddam was eating, this may just be a bid for sympathy from the attorneys.
And Coisty… Saddam was too our enemy along with Iran. In fact Saddam and the mullahs seem to think they are everybody’s enemies.
Except for hamas and hizbellah anyway.
Coisty makes a valid point of the absurdity of
the international criminal court trying Milosevic at the Hague going on five years.
The Bush administration acted with foresight and firmness and an appreciation of jurisdictional legalities in having an Iraqi court try Saddam.
These mega international trials only give these former tyrants the opportunity to try to justify their crimes and lambast Western democracies.
On the bright side,force feeding is terribly unpleasant.
If Hussein goes to an internatinal court he will get out,sometimes justice is not enough.
ìThese mega international trials only give these former tyrants the opportunity to try to justify their crimes and lambast Western democracies.î
I suspect that they also provide well paying jobs with lots of wonderful benefits. Could there be a tacit agreement between the judges, prosecutors, and defense lawyers to keep the good times rolling as long as possible? What do these people do economically once the Milosevic trial is over?
David:
Speaking of which, who the hell is paying for all this anyway. I don’t think trying Milosevic should be a life time job for anybody.
What do they do all day anyway?
ìWhat do they do all day anyway?î
I am only guessing, but I suspect that these legal professionals work less than ten hours a week. The silliest excuse is sufficient justification to close down the proceedings for the day—and go off and enjoy a few cocktails and a great meal. Am I too cynical?
I was able to Google the following:
ìÖ the Tribunalís expenses were supposed to come out of the UN budget, but in fact it has depended on US and other governmentsí funding, on donations from George Soros and other private donors, with equipment and staff seconded by NATO members.† Some $3 million came from the United States in 1994-5, when the US was failing to meet its financial obligations to the United Nations.† Gilbert Guillaume, President of the International Court of Justice, complained to the UN General Assembly in October 2002 that the Tribunal got ten times more money than his court and suggested that this was because ìvarious parties create new forums that will be more amenable to their argumentsîÖíî
http://www.spokesmanbooks.com/soc_renew/fs2.htm
Kevin:
There are several reasons that the Milosevic trial has been a farce. Frist, they attributed and charged him with every possible bad action that the Bosnian Serbs committed. That was patent nonsense. For one thing, Western intelligence services knew all along that he had no foreknowledge of Srebinitsa and he had extremely negative reaction to it. We also knew that most of actions in the 1998 Kosovo counterinsurgency action were entirely consistent with the laws armed conflict. Milosevic shredded those charges in open court. De la Ponte admitted when she rested her case that charges of genocide were unproven. The prosecution’s kitchen sink approach has made it impossible to separate real crimes from “propaganda” crimes. Hence, Slobo has become a martyr. [I pat myself on the back with that one because I had the martyr slide in a 2000 briefing that made the rounds in the building.]
The real purpose of sending Saddam to an international court would be to acquit him and thereby set up the possibility that he would return to power.
The Red Cross most assuredly is appalled by Saddam Husseinís past atrocities
I doubt it. The ICRC spends more time condemning the US and refusing to recognize the Magen David Adom than they do worrying about what third-world dictators do to the “little brown people” under their rule.
OT. Let’s get serious, folks. There are things that really need our attention.
Under-18s are to be banned from buying knives under new plans announced by the Government.
Yes, yes. No one should own a knife until they are old enough to drink. This is soooo enforceable. What the h*ll is going on in Britain?
ìDe la Ponte admitted when she rested her case that charges of genocide were unproven.î
Karl Marx mistaken reduced everything to economics. However, I do think he was 80% correct. Is De la Ponte and her fellow legal professionals earning more money today then before their involvement with this trial? Human beings lie to themselves. I can easily imagine these folks tacitly agreeing to milk this for all itís worth. Yes, I am that cynical.
Chuck,
This is the Combating Crime time,as we approach the Season of Goodwill and a young mans thoughts turn to filling in the bloke who dissed him or had his tongue down his girlfriends throat at closing time,the government has to be seen doing something.
Coincidentally the opposition has launched a law and order offensive, there is also a campaign to allow householders to pull faces at burglars,if the duct tape allows them to and their bonds are not too tight.
Now the government is completely unable to stop teenagers from drinking,taking drugs,stealing cars,fornicating and doing a spot of light burglary on the days the are playing truant,so it is quite probable that this will fail also.
If there is any effect it will be that only those who mean to use a knife will carry one,there will be endless harassing of those with legitimate reasons to carry a knife and a example made to encourage pour outre.
The average young thug will return to using head,hands and feet and the traditional drinking vessel.
Interestingly government policy is to extend drinking hours.
and the traditional drinking vessel.
So beer served in paper cups is next?
A lot of waterholes already do many use plastic glasses.If only I could come up with a paper cup one could stun someone with,I think it would be a winner.
Peter:
I heard that there were a couple of high profile home invasions in London resulting in death. It seems the burglars ahd knives and just walked in the front door. No point in having a fancy security system if you let them in.
I have a shot gun and I am quite capable of using it. I honestly can not imagine Americans debating whether or not we can defend ourselves. But then again that is one of the reasons the world thinks we’re violent… and we are.
This reminds me of the great scene in Blazing Saddles when Bart (Cleavon Little) rides into town as the new sheriff and he talks his way out of trouble (4th .wav file on list).
As hard as I try I cannot muster a scintilla of sympathy for Saddam and his henchmen. In fact I quite like Richardís idea: can we start them on oxygen strike, too?
I guess it is my evil warmongering nature showing trough. Oh well.
Anyway, didnít our guests at Guantanamo try this tactic before? Except that I seem to recall that they were fasting sequentially i.e. Mohamed on Monday, Saleed on Tuesday, Aziz in Wednesday etc. I donít think that Saddam and Co. are made of any sterner stuff than the girly-men at Gitmo. But let them experience the force-feeding tube, by all means. I mean, we cannot torture these bastards legally, can we?
David Thomson:
The participants’ work ethic and possible penchant to gin the system rings true. Some judges, in my experience, will hear any silly argument, then retire to read the briefs post argument and then write long exhaustive theoretical opinions.
The best judge, I ever appeared before, was a local state judge who read the briefs beforehand and then challenged you within two minutes of arguing a motion, ruled quickly and effectively and then announced, “next case!”
I doubt that type of work effort exists and
I am biased in favor of American jurisprudence. International courts are different than American courts; judges are not schooled in our adversarial system. The quality of these international judges is an issue but unfortunately my view is skewered by American legal training and experience.
I vote we let Saddam continue the hunger strike, and help him develop more Virtue by serving roast beef, roast lamb, baklava etc three times a day for his guards.
Terrye,
There has been a 600+ thread going on the subject at Belmont Club.The whole furore in the UK is the increase in hot burglary,committed whilst the householders are at home.This is a direct result of improve security,they go for the weakest link the human.
The banning of knives has been impelled by the tragic murder of John Monckton who was one of the establishment,this has sent an icy wind round the corridors of power that has brought the realisation that no one is safe.Therefore the haste to ban knves redefine reasonable force and stamp down on hot burglary..
Before that they let the underclasses chop each other up with abandon.
Katherine,I was thinking perhaps they could shove the odd pork pie done his feeding tube.
Starving himself would be a good way to avoid a trial. He’d do everyone a favor by hastening his arrival in paradise to froic with the thousands of virgins waiting for him. Onward and upward Saddam.
The last thing we need is candle bearing nutcases holding vigils around the world to protest how mean we are to this murderer.
the Vatican is already lending Aziz religious and legal support
If I ever need to remind myself why I left the Catholic Church, all I need to do is read news like this.
Can I simply eat a lavish meal in front of Saddam?
PeterUK ó Poland banned aluminum softball bats as deadly weapons…