As a hoops-aholic, I watched some of the clips from the brawl at the end of the Pacers-Pistons game and… whoa… and I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this West of a European football riot. Well, it’s not quite that, but I wouldn’t want to be on the end of a right cross thrown by Ron Artest. NBA Commissioner David Stern has a problem. Realistically some of these players should be thrown out of the game permanently. As for the Detroit fans, well, I thought Philly was bad. Phew!
UPDATE: From NBA.COM, the statement from Commissioner Stern in which four player are suspended indefinitely. Sounds like the NBA is taking it pretty seriously. Of course, there may indictments from the DA, in which case they have no choice.
Coincidentally HBO was showing their Golota vs Bowe episode of “Legendary Nights” yesterday. No NYPD presence in the Garden. No effective security whatsoever. Now that was a brawl.
Plenty of fault to go around here including stupid fans and arenas selling beer to drunken yahoos. Ticket holders who thrown stuff should be banned from the arena for life. That said, the NBA (and the NHL) have a number of “professional athletes” who are thugs.
When you throw a punch at another athlete, or you sucker-punch a player from behind, you should be arrested right then and there for assault and battery. I would LOVE to see a cop come down and arrest the offender next time this crap happens. These players shouldn’t be fined or suspended from games, they should be kicked out of the NBA or NHL.
Legal action is very appropriate for this nonsense. Send a couple of players to jail in the middle of the season (none of this summer camp crap) might have a modifying effect on the league.
“As for the Detroit fans, well, I thought Philly was bad”
Hey, I resemble that comment!
As a Philadephian, I think we get a bad rap. How come whenever fans anywhere else do something, it somehow reflects on Philadelphians! New Englanders throw stuff on the field after a game, and the newspapers don’t talk about New England fans, but about how we threw snowballs at Santa Claus!
Well, let me tell you. Santa is not what he appeared. Thieving bastard, sneaking into our houses at night.
We’re just passionate, and sometimes it flows over. I’d never trade a Philly fan for the fans in some other cities, where people just watch politely and leave before the game is over if their team is behind.
That said, this does take it too far, and I agree that something should be done.
I concur with Kelley and David.
With that said, the person I blame the most for this particular fiasco is Ben Wallace. Wallace clearly over-reacted to the Artest foul. It was a hard foul, but hardly a cheap shot. If Wallace merely takes his charity tosses, as he should, nothing else happens. Wallace’s attack on Artest set off the chain of events that followed.
I can’t agree with Roger’s conclusion that players need to be suspended permanently or the sense that this shows once again that they’re thugs.
In this case, it was the fans who were thugs, if you can be a cowardly thug. None of these guys would throw a full beer at someone built like Artest in a bar or on the street because they’d know they’d get their ass kicked and deserve it. But in a sports stadium they feel they can get away with this behavior. In that context they can mix it up with the players or demean them without suffering the consequences. Well it didn’t work that way.
Yes, Stern has a problem because he has to discipline players when the real instigators here are the fans. Artest may have a bad reputation, but he wasn’t anywhere near the bad guy in this.
I lived in Philly from ’94 to ’01. In ’98, Veterans Stadium installed a courtroom, right there in the stadium, where a sitting judge would preside over detained fans on game days, right then and there. I don’t know if this was carried over to the new stadium, and I don’t know if it’s had an effect on fan behavior.
As for Loki the Dog, heh heh, perhaps he’s already forgotten this little incident [see penultimate paragraph].
In my experience, the fans in Philadelphia revel in their reputation as the worst in professional sports (USA version.) But then, they haven’t won a title in football since 1960, hockey since 1975, baseball since 1980 and basketball since 1983 and they’re loyal and optimistic (for a time)year in and year out. The Philadelphia crowds I was a part of were among the best, but then most of my experience has been in California. The absolute best crowd I’ve been a part of was one at Yankee Stadium during the 1998 season.
There are no worse fans than drunks with an opportunity to act out. That’s what happened last night. Let the chips fall where they may, but improve security at The Palace of Auburn Hills. Love that name!
I agree that Ben Wallace is primarily to blame. As I posted elsewhere, if he hadn’t of overreacted to the foul, the other players wouldn’t have overreacted. If the other players hadn’t of overreacted, then the fans would not have overreacted. This doesn’t excuse the actions of the other players or the fans, but Wallace was the fuse that caused the explosion.
Well, let me tell you. Santa is not what he appeared. Thieving bastard, sneaking into our houses at night.
Some times, a statement appears on a comment that just deserves to be singled out for admiration.
I gave up being a basketball fan after the Lakers kept the character-challenged Kobe and got rid of Phil Jackson and Shaq, arguably the best coach ever and arguably the best center since Wilt. As for Detroit, this fight doesn’t surprise me. Anyone who remembers the Detroit teams with Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn knows that a culture of thuggishness has been a Piston trait for a long time. The NBA should suspend the players involved for the rest of the season without pay, but they won’t. This has been the spoiled-child league ever since they started handing out $70 million contracts to rookies and letting goons like Sprewell play after choking his coach.
What the NBA needs is to get rid of David Stern and bring in a brutal reformer like baseball’s Kenesaw Mountain Landis.
Ask anyone on an opposing team what’s the worst defensive position in Yankee Stadium and they’ll probably answer right field where they’re subjected to the “bleacher creatures” who are truly merciless. However, it looks like even they could pick up some pointers from this crowd.
New York crowds can be brutal, but some of the chants are brilliant. David Justice got “Haille Berry, Haille Berry– his ex-wife.” Reggie Miller gets “Cheryl, Cheryl– his sister.” Those are great.
I watched this thing unfold last night while watching the game (what a great game by the way – those are two fantastic basketball teams). ANd my thought on it is this:
Detroit arena and security officials are the primary “at fault” parties here. If you’re a sec. crew chief and you see the Ben Wallace thing, you get every single baton out into the arena and ready for anything.
The fans suck, obviously. They should be arrested and banned.
That being said, there is no excuse for Artest going into the stands like that. NBA players should be able to defend themselves from imminent serious physical threats (ie a fan charging them). Allowing a player to go into the stands after a fan for ANYTHING should result in a year suspension. And why ? Because Artest went after the wrong guy last night – if you saw the incident, the jackass with the hat that was trying to pull ARtest off is the one who dumped the drink on Ron – and yet Ron charged off into the stands and belted the wrong guy. Artest is not the police, he’s not security, he’s a basketball player who lost every bit of his self control and assaulted a fan, who while obnoxious, was not directly threatening artest.
I realize the players are in a tough position, especially in Detroit. However, they get paid millions and millions of dollars to play like professionals- and professionalism means ignoring the distractions that happen off the court, including fans.
Artest should be suspended for the year. As much as I love Jermaine O’neal, he should also be suspended for the rest of the year for his big right hand of that fan on the floor. And the other guy with the dreads (name escapes me atm) should also be suspended for a year. Wallace should get a couple of games but remember, he started it ON the court, not off.
Hovig: Thanks for reminding me of the batteries! But, hey, that was only a few people in the crowd. I think most people politely restrained themselves to throwing cups of beer and food. Myself, I never understood throwing your $6 beer at a player–far to precious!
And, no, we no longer have Eagle’s Court. The official reason is that security is better in the new stadium, so that it is no longer needed. I believe the real reason is that, as with many of these no stadiums, the common fan has been priced out. Most people can’t afford an expensive personal seat license. As a Flyer’s fan, I felt this when they got their new arena. The old Spectrum rocked. But in the new one, the business people who populated the lower regions arrived late, and didn’t even pay attention to the game. People look at you funny if you cheer, and I’ve had people tell me to sit down after an exciting score.
But, it does bring back a fond Philadelphia fan memory! Play-off hockey. Flyers-Lightning. My friend was behind the Tampa bench, and they were shouting cordial greetings to Selivanov and other players. He got pissed, and turned around and squirted his gatorade at the fans. One of the fans threw his beer back at ‘em (again with the beer). Cory Cross got pissed when he got hit by beer, and climbed into the stands along with assistant coach Wayne Cashman. A little love ensued. Those in the nearby seats, included my friends were formally “ejected,” however the security guide tasked with escorting them out allowed them to watch the rest of the game from the concourse. Wayne went on to become one of the Flyers many head coaches!
Patrick: ouch. That hurts. It’s become a sickness. Noone even believes we will win any more. After the Pittsburgh foootball game, all I heard from other fans was, “see, this shows the real team. We knew they weren’t really that good!”
I am also of the opinion that fans have become horrible, and this viciousness extends to politics. I have a fairly long post on this HERE. I have also become more coarse over the past decade.
I don’t follow basketball, but I get the impression that half the NBA belongs in prison, and now to be joined by some fraction of their fans.
This needs to be stopped now, to avoid the European soccer syndrome. Next player to go into the stands – other than to watch two other teams play – banned for life. Basketball needs to treat fighting the way baseball treats gambling.
That should do it. Lose control, and become the tallest guy working at Burger King.
I gave up watching professional sports some 10 years ago.
Before that I was a season ticket holder for all of Michael Jordan’s career, as well a season ticket holder for the White Sox, and went to umpteen Blackhawks game at the old Chicago Stadium.
Fights in the stands were a common occurence “back in the day” in the old Comiskey Park and Chicago Stadium. The old saw about “I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out” was true, except the fistacuffs were in the stands.
I didn’t see the fight at the Palace last night, but yes, it seems that everyone involved, including both benches, their coaches, security, the refs, fans, are in-part responsible for the melee.
As for the “bleacher creatures” in right field at Yankee Stadium, I was there for the first time this year, in September, for the Red Sox series.
What was most amazing, or appalling, was the abuse hurled at Red Sox fans or their players, as it was mostly viscious “gay-baiting”. And unbelievably, it was done by men, women, and children!
“Damon takes it in the a**!”
“Why are you Gay?!” Shouted to the tune of YMCA during the 5th or 6th inning, at the Red Sox fans in right field.
“Take a shower, with the guys!”
“That’s the best you got?” I thought, “screaming that someone is gay?”
Sheesh.
Absolutely disgraceful.
A bunch of overpAid jocks and some drunks duking it out.
Dog—
I came to Philadelphia in time for the 1997 Stanley Cup Finals. The fans didn’t stop believing until sometime during game 2. A few months later the Ray Rhodes era began with a 30-0(?) loss to Seattle. The fans didn’t stop believing until sometime in the third quarter. I had a great time during those 4 years and I remain (in Los Angeles) a fan of the 76ers (when they’re not playing the Lakers) and the Eagles (when they’re not playing the 49ers.)
…
I was in the right field stands during that best of all experiences in 1998. It was a beautiful late summer Saturday afternoon, the Yankees were something like 60 games over .500 when that wasn’t old, the place was packed, everyone was into “the game” and the kid in our group got a ball. Never better.
Patrick:
The ’97 Cup Finals. Now, there is a painful memory! Afterwards, we tore up the team and changed everything rather than figuring out how to build upon what we had.
I went to Game 1 with a good friend from Detroit. He was sitting behind me in the stands, pounding my back excitedly whenever Detroit scored or did something well.
Hell, I’m one of those suckers who didn’t give up hope until Game 4, when it was woefully apparent to the rest of the world that it was over!
I thought the 97′ Cup Final was between Philadelphia and Edmonton, not Detroit.
Oops! I’m thinking of 1987! I must be getting old!
Anyone who has ever rooted for their team at an opposing arena knows that getting a beer dumped on you is a minor indignity. Hell, I’ve had beers dumped on me at home games.
The fans that Artest and Jackson attacked in the stands will get substantial financial settlements. You have someone sitting in the stands attacked by a large, trained athlete with no apparent provocation from the people who were attacked. Lots of deep pockets involved here: Artest, Jackson, the Pacers, the Pistons, the Palace and the NBA. They’re all going to get sued so my guess is that they will pony up some money together to make the fans go away. My guess is that if Dennis Rodman kicking a courtside photographer is worth $400,000, Artest and Jackson invading the stands and attacking fans might get into the million dollar range.
Also, if they can’t proove that the fans who were assaulted did anything to provoke the attacks, Artest and Jackson are going to be looking at criminal charges. Expect that if there is a financial settlement with the fans, the settlement will include an agreement to not swear out a criminal complaint.
The NBA is working overtime to make this go away. You can be sure that the last thing that David Stern wants is for the Oakland County prosecutor to file criminal charges against two stars who started in last year’s conference finals.
Wow, a lot of comments that seem way off base. Artest went into the stands with minimal provocation, he should be barred for 3 years.
Walker over-reacted to a foul and should be suspended for 4-10 games. This is a steep increase to “the usual” but it change is clearly needed.
The fans were not bad on the same scale- a platic cup started the riot? After players attack the wrong guy, they are lucky to be walking today.
Any player that assaults a fan should be barred for at least one full calendar year, actually I think that is too soft.
Anything over 10 games is too severe for any of the players involved. It’s come to the point where fans think they’re entitled to do just about anything they want to players just because they bought a ticket. “Altercations” occur all the time and obnoxious fans keep taking it one step further because they know they’re not going to face any consequences.
If the league bans any of these players for the year or longer, what message does that send to fans? Any player that makes you mad is now fair game. Do whatever you want to him because he can’t do a thing in return.
I agree that a strong message needs to be sent – to fans.
That said, the players weren’t innocent and all should face fines and suspensions by the league. I would hope the players union would vehemently object to making these players the scapegoat of the whole situation, though.
Type for some soccer-style justice: Detroit should be forced to play some number of “home” games (say, the first round of the playoffs) at a neutral location.
Or play for an empty arena, without audience… That’s been a verdict in Europe too I believe. Takes away the support of the audience, and the income from the game itself.
The best chant I ever heard was in the soccer Euro championship in ’92(I believe). The final was played in Sweden, and between Denmark and Germany.
Germany had the much better team on paper, and Denmark had had a really rough way to the final, their players were exhausted but played with 200% heart, and led with maybe 15minutes left. The germans were getting desperate, but couldn’t get anywhere against the Danes, that just refused to give up anything.
Then the whole audience, Swedes and Danes together, started singing merrily (to the melody of “Yellow submarine”) in German(!): “Deutchland, Deutchland, alles ist vorbei!”
(“Germany, Germany, it’s all over now”)
I think the suspensions are justified, though I think Ben Wallace’s suspension should have been longer. Now, how’s this, because of the Detroit fans behavior, Detroit has to forfeit a certain number of games. I think that’s fair–I just can’t determine the number of games they should forfeit–two, five?