According to the NYT, CBS is about to announce they were “misled” on the National Guard memos. It’s worth noting immediately that this story was given by sources at CBS to the New York Times, which has been extremely bland to the point of evasive in its coverage of the scandal, rather than to the Washington Post, which has been forthright and thorough. It’s yet more worth noting that CBS is not even sure they want to acknowledge their mistake:
But they cautioned that CBS News could still pull back from an announcement. Officials met last night with Dan Rather, the anchor who presented the report, to go over the information it had collected about the documents one last time before making a final decision. Mr. Rather was not available for comment late last night.
These CBS execs are absolutely unbelievable! Even in a situation of blatant fraud, they act as if they were doing us a favor in issuing an apology. I can’t figure which they are more – arrogant or stupid. It’s a toss-up.
By the way, the Times calls it sources CBS News “officials,” as if they were some governmental agency, not business “executives,” which they are. Doesn’t that say it all?
Roger, you see it, you know it — the USA, and the world, NEEDS a better news gathering organization.
Much more than another book, or movie (despite my high expectations of you).
Why AREN’T you a publisher of a quality hard-copy newspaper, getting permission to copy bloggers/ columnists that are good? For fame and, hey, why not “profit sharing”/ blogger equity, based on words published? No profit, no cash…
You and Hugh H. and Jeff Jarvis and PowerLine — maybe with agreement by Glenn. And maybe Kos, Kevin Drum, or Matthew Y — really get “balance”?
A new WorldToday – virtual, could compete with USA Today; maybe, with the business model including lots of research and on-line corrections and links not available to hard-copy: but hard-copy nice.
Why don’t *I* do it? I’m not good enough; wish I was.
CBS must still demand the resignations of both Dan Rather and Mary Mapes. The public also has a right to know which Democratic high profile person was involved in the fiasco. Am I asking CBS to disprove a negative? Is it possible that such a person does not exist? No, I donít think so. It is highly unlikely that Bill Burkett’s word was alone sufficient for Sixty Minutes to go ahead and be so reckless.
Mary Mapes continues to be praised for her involvement in Abu Ghraib. This is utterly ridiculous. The scandal was apparently handled to her on a silver platter by attorneys representing the accused military personnel. Some even contend that they gave the evidence over to Mapes only after the military refused to drop all charges against their clients. In other words, the lawyers were essentially blackmailers. What investigative journalism did she have to perform? The matter was already being responsibly handled. If anything, this woman is responsible for unfairly implying that the Bush administration was directly involved. And may God forgive her and the CBS executives who immorally released the photos. They truly have no conscience.
It also seems like CBS wants to ignore any questions from outsiders. They prefer to release their version of events—and be done with it. This cannot be tolerated.
Rathergate is a dramatic symptom in a long, wasting disease at CBS.
In the maw of crashing irrelevance, CBS News has been running on fumes for several years. They are top-heavy with highly paid news reader cum stars, with dangerously thin staffs to back them up.
CBS News is a Potamkin news organization. They have no depth. Now we see its ancient facade fall over.
(How old is their youngest news reader? 50?)
The real question, as I and others have posted today, is who gave Burkett the CBS addresses? You can’t contact 60 Minutes either by fax or letter. Somebody, the DNC?, gave him the map. Who?????
“Misled” isn’t good enough. Rather and Mapes worked on the story for 4 years or more. Yet they apparently never spoke to Ms. Knox until after they came under attack. They apparently never spoke to Staudt. They dismissed the opinions of Killian’s wife and son. They shopped the docs to try and get experts to say they were authentic and then latched on to tepid “maybes” about minor points while ignoring real warnings. And last, but far from least, the docs were such painfully obvious fakes that somebody working the story had to have realized they smelled fishy, yet they went ahead.
Then they used Barnes, an obvious partisan, as their primary source for the story (aside from whomever gave them the docs). Yet whenever anyone questioned a story that obviously stunk, they attacked the complaint as partisan.
Rather and 60 Minutes II were not “misled” – the willfully joined in a story that was obviously trash. They can probably get away with telling the world they were misled, but that is just another lie and they know it. They really need to come clean and explain the entire debacle, including how they came to have these forged documents. Anyone gonna place a $2 bet on that?
Is there anywhere where overnight, or very recent, ratings info is published? I’d love to know if there is a spontaneous boycott going on similar to French wine sales and tourist dropoffs.
Howard,
Knucklehead posted this link on a previous thread. The Kerry campaign certainly has the phone/fax numbers and addresses necessary to reach CBS. I continue to believe that the memos were a juicy prop to substantiate the allegations made by Barnes in first segment of Diva Dan’s Demise.
There has not been sufficient exploration of the far too convenient timing of the 60II program and the start of the Favorite Son campaign by the DNC. McAuliffe was using the 60II segments within 12 hours of their showing to support DNC lies about W. The DNC/Rather ads were running within 48 hours.
I wonder how far Dobbs at the WaPo is going to follow this? Is he going to raise the appropriate questions concerning collusion in the commission of this fraud? Do you think we’ll see the chart linked above published in the WaPo? I believe I’ll withold applause for the moment. Right now this isn’t very far from “third rate burglary” status. The story isn’t about Rather/Mapes being willing dupes. It is really about Kerry campaign being willing to use forgery to advance a fraud.
Of course, John Kerry knows a great deal about fraud.
Knucklehead,
Drudge usually puts ratings up as soon as they are available. He’s got a nice picture of Diva Dan the Dupe up right now but doen’t have the ratings yet.
Executives are as insulated and non-responsive to shareholders as bureaucrats are to the populace. Having gamed the system, politcians’ incumbency is nearly guaranteed anymore. This leads to more similarities than differences in modi operandi.Corporate and union leadership or government, all are more self regarding than truly representative.They come to think of themselves as Masters of the Universe. They more often resemble Masters of Their Domain ala Seinfeld.
I think the CBS acknowledgement is a form of belated damage control. At this point they want the story to disappear. I am sure CBS management wants to avoid disclosing the sources and chain of custody for the documents. This is not necessarily aimed at protecting the Kerry campaign. CBS has news source ties to many organizations like Moveon.org and they want to be able to go back to well in the future. As usually the perpetrator of the fraud could have quickly killed this story by coming clean with the “I’ve been had” press release in the first few days. Their rather slow climb down and the “fake but accurate” narrative has insured that CBS news will not be taken seriously on political stories for a quite awhile. That is about 6 months in today’s news business. The partisan attack on Bush has taken them out of this election cycle and may end up costing VIACOM hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising revenue.
Rick,
The timing of the Fortunate Son campaign from the Kerry campaign sure suggests they were sitting there waiting for the last bit of video to edit into the thing. I’d be the last to try and defend the Kerry campaign, the DNC, or the Dems, but about all we can take away from the timing is that the Kerry campaign knew about he 60II story in advance – perhaps even recieved the video in advance. It doesn’t automagically say the whole sorry thing was orchestrated all along. I would like to see some investigative bloggers or would-be journos follow that line where it leads.
If CBS comes out and claims they were “misled” and doesn’t foam at the mouth trying to support the stupid “accurate” nonsense or claim they were duped by Evil Republicans, however, I would expect the rest of the MSM to let the story die after nothing that CBS finally backed off. Still, there is the outside chance that ABC and/or NBC will decide there is share to be gained and go for it by going in for the kill on CBS.
I don’t read the WaPo, but Roger has me on the verge of going and recovering my login info there. Maybe, just maybe, they realize that there’s business (otherwise known as revenue and profit) to be had by being the first of the major MSM outlets to reform and make a serious attempt to go straight. We’ll see – I’m a silver-lining kinda guy at heart, so I keep hoping
Yes the NYT is admitting the documents CBS used were frauds. However there is an additional article describing in vivid details President Bush’s in 1972 as “Unanchored in Turbulent Time.” This article is about twice the size of the document fraud article and appears above the brief front page mention “Doubt on Bush Memos” in the print version. (Yes I still have NYT home delivery …I just like to start my day being annoyed.) For some reason the article has a picture of the senior Bush playing tennis with Winton Blount. GW moved to Alabama to work on his campaign. The NYT is sending a clear message these documents are false but the content is correct. Pundits in MSM are continuingly complaining about the focus on events of 35-40 years ago. However they continue to rehash this same information. Apparently they do not even read what they write.
There’s not a chance that Rather or anybody important will take the fall for this. They’ll haul in Burkett to vouch for the memo’s authenticity, or at least vouch that the contents match the memos he claims to have seen. Burkett may admit to forwarding the memos to CBS but not to being the source, due to his recently discovered links to the Kerry campaign. He’ll probably claim to have received them from some now-dead source, and CBS will blame the White House and claim that the WH deceived them by failing to deny the memo’s authenticity.
It’s amusing that the dems’ can’t seem to open their mouth one week and not be contradicted by the facts the next. So Senator Miller observes that his side is striving mightily to “bring down” a fundamentally good-and-honest man, who, as president, has put everything he has into fighting a war for our survival, while the chattering class declaims “how untrue and unfair!” and then the next week we have Dandy Dan making Mr. Miller’s point (with no finesse and no class).
This is better than a movie, and free
Last year someone in Florida did a focus group on dem attack ads that suggested Mr. Bush was responsible for 9-11. It was reported the members became violent, overturning tables. Since the dems haven’t stopped, I fear we will see damage to a lot of our voting machines (and/or sprained fingers as the public expresses what they really feel in the privacy of the voting booth).
This “CBS is going to fold” gag is just to make sure people actually tune in.
Howard:
“…who gave Burkett the CBS addresses?”
Maybe no one.
Document analyst (or whatever) Emily Will says in Newsweek that a CBS producer told her the documents were “mailed” to CBS anonymously. If so, they were faxed to someone else.
Since most faxes are time/date stamped, it ought to be a simple matter for Kinko’s to check its bill to find the number to which a fax was sent at that time – I think it would be perfectly legal, too. All they need is that little piece of information. When.
Scott F,
“with dangerously thin staffs”
No Puleasssse! This allows CBS/Viacom to blame Mape’s story on bulimia and/or anorexia nervosa and a slew of other eating disorders, and gain the full support of NEDA. B^)
The way this story has been going I was half expecting Dan Rather to hold a seance to contact Killian’s spirit.
“Rap three times if you typed the memos on a Selectric… “
Knucklehead,
I think that you’re skipping over Barnes involvement a little too lightly. Did his segment on 60II work without the followup with the documents? He’s been deeply involved with fraud before and he previously swore that he had not exerted influence in getting W into the guard. Rather/Mapes certainly weren’t ignorant of those facts. Would they have run the segment without the corroboration of the memos in regard to additional influence being exerted by Stoudt?
I tend to think that the timing of the 60II segments was based upon Rather/Mapes knowledge of the Kerry/DNC Favorite Son campaign. They were “helping” the campaign, the campaign wasn’t following their lead. The “I’ve been working on this for four or five years.” bit simply doesn’t pass the laugh test. There are too many people that they never bothered to talk to in those four or five years. Coincidences do in fact occur but if this were happening to Fox the NYT would have a special section dedicatedd to flow charts going back 30 years.
CBS will probably make Burkett the fall guy with heavy emphasis on his mental state. That way, when he realizes how badly he’s been had and turns on them, they’ll use “he’s a nutter and a forger” as exculpation. That explanation covers McAuliffe’s butt too so we can expect to hear a lot of it in very short order.
“You and Hugh H. and Jeff Jarvis and PowerLine — maybe with agreement by Glenn. And maybe Kos, Kevin Drum, or Matthew Y — really get “balance”?”
Kos? The SOB doesn’t even link to blogs outside of his echo chamber. His intellectual dishonesty is stunning.
Well, I’m still bringing my “I’d RATHER vote for Bush” sign to this week’s march…
How is the Fortunate Son campaign doing, anyway? Has it reported for duty yet?
Oh gawd…
Remind me never, never to post a comment before I have had my first cup of coffee. That is the worst sentence I have ever written.
Scott F -
“wasting disease…maw…running on fumes…top-heavy…dangerously thin”
I just thought you were on the Atkins.
Leni:
Nice post on NYT coverage today. You beat me to the punch. Tee hee…
I think y’all are potentially missing quite a bit to this story.
To me, the only way the Democratic National Convention makes any sense (their focus on Kerry’s Viet Nam months) is if the party knew damn well they had this Fortunate Son thing coming.
To me, at the very least Mapes was aware of this future campaign.
To me, until they (CBS) credibly document the UNIMPEACHABLE source the greater scandal is still hidden.
To me, there is unquestionably a personal injury trial lawyer angle to this (these tactics); and they are major backers of Kerry-Edwards and certainly know how to fight dirty.
But most of all, to me there is an EXTREMELY CURIOUS Michael Moore – USA Today angle to all of this. It was a very curious decision to have him at the RNC as a journalist, was it not? And they did get the doucments, too, did they not? And they certainly haven’t led the charge investigating this forgery, have they?
Get after it. There’s definitely a story hovering around USA Today and this unimpeachable source Dan Rather relied upon.
Richard,
How is the Fortunate Son campaign doing, anyway?
Well, John over at RCP has the 3 way average showing a 6.8% lead for W (largest to date) so I guess it’s doing pretty well. I really believe that Kerry needs more advisors at this point. His campaign trajectory is fine but he’s not picking up velocity fast enough to create maximum impact.
Misled, my ass. I want everybody’s head on platter. And I’d still like to know exactly who did Burkett approach – it just can’t be that he did this all on is own initiative – he had to be in cahoots with a couple other folks.
In an earlier thread I linked to the Journalism.org’s State of the News Media 2004 report. The bottom line, as I stated in that thread, is that the MSM believes We the People are idiots and we believe the MSM are idiots. The ‘twain (whatever that is) shall never meet again.
The MSM’s response to this fundamental disconnect is to tell themselves they haven’t been critical enough of the Bush administration.
So they’ve brought us the “unilateral” and Rush to War charges which didn’t stick because of the corruption of the UN in general and UNSCAM Food for Oil in particular and was futher impossible because “multilateral” apparently can only be had by cooperation from the French who were in Saddam’s pocket. Nowhere that I am aware of have they stopped to analyze why this failed to bring down Bush or why they the whole thing was completely overwrought to begin with.
Then they brought us the no WMD charge which ignored all attempts at presenting the comprehensive case for going to war in Iraq and all evidence and counter-points that attempt to explain why programs mattered as much as stockpiles. This is, essentially, the “I didn’t listen to everything people were saying, latched onto the thing that seemed most important or emphasized, and when that didn’t turn out to be quite what everyone claimed it was, I’ll turn this into the misled the nation to war meme and continue to ignore all other arguments and focus on being more critical of the Bush administration case of argument by stupidity and stubborness.
Then they brought us the Quagmire/Vietnam angle and nothing can apparently shake them from this idiocy.
Then thy tried to stick the Bush administration with the blame for 9/11/2001 and used Richard Clarke’s book to make their case. Reading of the 9/11 report and the Intelligence Committee’s report don’t matter. The debunking of Clarke doesn’t matter. They keep pounding on their need to be more critical of the Bush Administration.
Then they brought us the dual idiocy of the Plame-Wilson Affair convinced that 16 words in a SOTU speech were fraudulent and that the non-outing of a non-secret-agent somehow mattered to something and now when both ends of that idiotic non-story have been debunked they say not a word. They must keep on message – be more critical of the Bush Administration.
And now they bring us the idiocy of the TANG Memogate which has blown up in their faces completely. But that apparently won’t stop them from trying to find some way to use this to be (all together now!) more critical of the Bush administration.
I’m sure I could find more examples, but those are sufficient to make the point. Will these MSM morons never stop and examine the evidence in front of their faces? It is they who are behaving like idiots, not We the People.
Their view that we are idiots is demonstrably incorrect. Our view that they are idiots is demonstrably correct. If they continue to refuse to right their ship and look at the world around them like sane people with an important job, and recognize that the job is much larger than being more critical of the Bush administration, than they deserve to glub-glub their way to Davey Jones’ Locker. The floating wreckage and lifejackets and rafts and boats they need to save themselves are all around them and they keep screaming that the presence of such things is a diabolical plot to drown them.
Reminds me of an old joke…
A very devout, born-again Christian was out in his boat when it sank in a storm and found himself afloat. Another boat saw him go down and sailed over to rescue him. When they got there he swam away and said he didn’t need their help because the Good Lord would save him. Finally they had save themselves and sailed away. But they reported it to the Coast Guard who sent a rescue helicopter. The man refused to be pulled out of the water and said the Good Lord would save him. The helicopter finally had to leave but they radioed a cutter to go out and get the guy. The CG cutter arrived, found him, and tried to pull him out, but once again he refused saying that the Good Lord would save him.
Naturally he finally drowned and found himself at the Pearly Gates because, while clearly stupid, he had been a good man. When he finally got to speak to the Good Lord, he asked God why God had forsaken him in his our of need and had failed to save him. God looked at him like the idiot he was and said, “I sent you a boat, a helicopter, and a ship. What more did you want from me?”
The MSM is determined to drown and their false god – the god of Must Be More Critical of the Bush Administration – has tried to save them, but they won’t be saved.
Roger,
In all of this blather about rather, don’t forget about your focus on the Oil for Food scam.
Now, back on OT: In all of the pre planning of trying to blow Bush’s jet out of the air, they are going to come undone. Some where this group of folks will lose a nail from the horseshoe of their warhorse, causing the horse to go lame. You know the rest.
Knucklehead
Great post!
Jamie Irons
I just received this CBS press release, faxed to me from the Abilene Kinko’s…
“We were misled.
We were misled by our own blind partisanship, into overlooking blatantly obvious facts…
… into deliberately suppressing contradictory testimony…
…. into ignoring the advice of disinterested experts when it didn’t advance us toward our goals.
We were misled by our own arrogance, into ignoring our years-long declining ratings share…
… into thinking we could arrogantly stonewall the American public… ”
*POOF* Paper bursts into flames…
And somewhere in the White House, sulphurous fumes and satanic laughter wafter under the door from Karl Rove’s office…
And the one question Dan Rather must now answer:
“Mr. Rather, how does it feel to have handed the election to George W, Bush?”
mshyde,
The RoveSatan used his Halliburton Mind Control device to convince the MSM that invisible F117′s are dropping secret, non-exploding yet lethal bombs on them. In repsonse they are firing every anti-aircraft weapon they can find straight up into the sky and wondering why the stuff is killing them when if falls back down on their own heads.
Rove’s genius is, as somebody else phrased it Once Upon a Time Here at Roger’s Place, to not try to murder an enemy who is in the process of committing suicide. Bush’s genius is to fall back on his faith and be grateful that his God answered his prayer and gave him the serenity to accept that which he cannot change.
The contortions the media are going through to sustain these unsupported allegations against GWB are amazing.
Just go away Rather, you creep.
Go away.
PLEASE!!!
Could this be a Strange Case of Mistaken Identity? It looks an awful lot like I’d expect Dan Rather to look after a particularly bad weekend dashing around the hinterlands of TX Desperately Seeking Coroboration.
I could be letting my distrust of the MSM get in the way of critical reading, but this from CBSNews.com seems to have a defiant, or maybe just ominous, undertone to it.
Holy Moly, it was hard to get to this comment section.
The real bete noir of this story is – drum roll please – Robin Rather, daughter of Dan. It is she who her father is protecting. She would also be someone who had access to the fax and phone numbers of 60II. Austin is a couple of hunderd miles from Baird, both Burkett and Robin Rather are what are called democratic activists, Burkett, thru NG service (HQ for the Texas NG is Ft Mabry located in Austin), has real connections with Austin where daughter Robin apparently lives.
Follow the nepotism, I always say.
Ummm… isn’t trying to follow the nepotism what got Rather into his pickle?
“Mr. Rather and others at the network are said to still believe that the sentiment in the memos accurately reflected Mr. Killianís feelings”
That makes it final and undeniable: they have no shame, no guilt, no objectivity, and no integrity. Boycott & Flame.
That link to a CBS News story appears to be a straight AP story, not one generated by CBS.
Knucklehead
Maybe, in fact, it was…should I take that comment back? Was looking for a little irony or perhaps a joke…Leave ‘em laughing, isn’t that what Groucho use to say?
Larry,
I was trying to match the spirit in which I thought it was offered. It was just a sarcastic throw-away line. Nothing in particular intended – it just struck me as amusing.
Knucklehead
Right on. But I stand by the body of that comment which may not be factual but are accurate…or is it they may not be acc…oh, you get the idea.
This piece from the NYTimes has me cross-eyed with fury. I can’t stand it when someone brazenly lies to me and this stalling makes me want to pound my fist into Rather’s stupid moronic pompous face. He’s such a huge bore at the best of times but when you know he’s lying like this I just want to see him totally destroyed. He’s so smug. Arrrrrrggh! (/rant)
I think I got it now Larry! Sorry for the innuendo which, while faked, might have been… never mind.
Back to our storyline…
Drudge is reporting a statement from Dan Rather (go there, you don’t need no stinking link).
It contains (in addition to “not much”)…
RatherLameRetraction. He knew then what he knows now. If he didn’t he is an unprofessional fool.
The head of ABC has already warned his people to not go too far with this. He said that one day they could be in CBS’s shoes and they don’t want to make enemies. It was linked from Drudge.
Our only hope is Michael Dobbs at WaPo…but he probably believes the memos represent an essential truth too.
Do these people actually _believe_ Terry McAullife?
No apology to anyone for running a piece of crap story that smeared the President and Staudt (and, by implication, the people Burkett said witnessed things they claim they never witnessed), the TANG as an organization, and a dead man. To gather the story he misled several people, ignored the experts he hired as well as the dead man’s wife and son. CBS handled this whole thing with willful negligence and all Rather can say is “I wouldn’t have done it the way I did and I wouldn’t have used the documents” – what an egotistical slimemerchant.
One idea I’ve seen which sounds like it has merit is to pressure the FCC to revoke the broadcast license’s of CBS and it’s affiliates. Does anyone here know if that sounds feasible?
Just read Rather’s statement on Drudge. Whatta crock. Who was the source? Is it in the journalistic ethics bag that you don’t burn a lying, forging source? Who the hell is the source, Rather and this milquetoast statement in no way gets you off the hook. Are there any grown ups at work at CBS? Isn’t stonewalling a firing offense in the news business? If not what about out and out lying?
“…without fear or favoritism”?
Is he serious?
He owes President Bush an apology. He owes Staudt an apology. He owes the family of Killian an apology.
A**hole.
I wonder if McAuliffe approved this move too? This will keep the focus on the CBS/DNC connection for at least another week. Rather’s not protecting Burkett, he’s protecting the people who vouched for Burkett. My current candidates are:
Robin Rather
Max Cleland
Ben Barnes
I give the edge to Barnes although Robin and Max are certainly contenders.
Will John Kerry ever realize that he’s been screwed by DNC insiders like no other candidate in history?
Please know that nothing is more important to us than people’s trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.
OK Dan, since you needed the guidance of the blogsphere to figure out those documents were inept forgeries we’ll give you more guidance. Answer the following questions:
Who was your source?
What was their motive in giving you these documents?
When did you first receive these documents?
Where did these documents get faxed from?
Why did you discount the obvious nature of these poor forgeries and continue to use them?
Larry–
I don’t think the Danster would push this story on the basis of his daughter’s relationships with the Texas Democrats. Seems too risky to me. In any event, there is only one to two degrees of separation between every figure who has popped up in this scandal and both the Kerry campaign and CBS. See Polidock for a nice chart of incestuousness.
ìHow is the Fortunate Son campaign doing, anyway?
Well, John over at RCP has the 3 way average showing a 6.8% lead for W (largest to date) so I guess it’s doing pretty well. I really believe that Kerry needs more advisors at this point. His campaign trajectory is fine but he’s not picking up velocity fast enough to create maximum impact.î
Rick, you are brilliant.
From CBSNews.com (Read the whole thing if can stomach it.)
The source is discreditted, the docs themselves could not possibly be more blatant forgeries, and CBS still refuses to admit that.
So, now Burkett “admits” the documents came from a source other than another former Guardsman.
And then they go on and repeat the same BS they were trying to sell the whole time!
How does this differ from “we still view the story as accurate”? Oh, I get it… The memos are false, our source lied to us, we don’t know (or won’t say) where they came from, we’ve been working on this idiocy for four freakin’ years and haven’t a shred of evidence from credible witness, just some vague hearsay, but we want to repeat it all here rather than apologize to the people we smeared and dragged out in front of the public for no good reason.
The documents are discreditted. The source is discreditted. If they had put half as much effort into talking to the people who were with Bush in AL and building those timelines we’d know what happened, wouldn’t we. But that would have been uninteresting and non-nefarious and had no hope of damaging a president during an election.
CBS article has to put in all the inuendos and rumors about Bush in their story.
Their entire story is based on rumor and innuendo from partisan sources. Bernie Goldberg must be chuckling out loud.
And Dan Rather thinks he’s not biased.
After Burkett pulled a fast one on him, I bet Rather still believes Burkett’s story about seeing trashed documents.
Rather can’t believe Staudt because he’s a Bush supporter. But he believes Burkett because he hates Bush.
ìWill these MSM morons never stop and examine the evidence in front of their faces?î
Knuck, they will not because they have gone insane (or were always insane, I don’t know) and that is why they will try the same thing over and over again expecting that finally, by miracle, the outcome will be different than all those times before.
Should Bush win (touching a convenient belaying pin) expect the following results of the election postmortem in MSM: we lost because a) we were not negative enough b) we did not get our message across/did not introduce the candidate to the public c) Americans in general are as stupid as Mike Moore says, so what can you expect.
The S-factor shall return with vengeance.
I just came back from a lunch time visit to Borderís and it made me thing about how far MSM, in its broadest sense includes places like mass market book stores, has gone down the road to become a quasi-Stalinist appendage to the Democratic Party. This particular Borderís [at the Pentagon Center across from Pentagon City Mall for those local to DC], had a large display of anti-administration tomes, starting at the top Hersch, 9-11 Report, Kerry campaign Biography, etc. There were no Bush favorable books to be seen in an equivalent display or for that matter on the tables as well. It was all Bush-bash all the time. You would think that Borderís corporate management would be getting the word out to give at least the illusion of balance. Barnes and Noble, which may have the same political point of view, manage to at least look like a Republican could find a book there. Politically the MSM is like the media/literary establishment in the last few years of the USSR. They have lost all ability to see that they are rapidly bearing down on an iceberg. Competitive markets are going to force a major change in the way they do business they just canít rise above their own ideological premises to see it.
Syl:
I actually take the ABC internal line to be a positive sign in the sense that they recognize that their ideological biases could get them in trouble some day. You can bet that there will be other ABC internal memos that start telling the news division that they need to back off from accepting DNC preplanned talking points as part their reporting.
Fresh Air
It is hard for me to believe that Rather could indulge in any riskier behavior than standing behind obviously forged documents for days on end. (But, hell maybe that’s what they’ve always done and this is simply the first time they’ve been caught out.) The principal reason I think he has stonewalled this from the beginning is because of Robin’s involvement. I can think of no better reason for his drinking the Kool Aide and drink he has.
ABC News affilitates announced on September 20, 2004, that CBS is backing away from it’s documented criticism of Bush’s ANG service because:
“CBS cannot prove that the documents are authentic.”
Not that the documents are forgeries or fakes, which would, however temporarily, dismiss the charge. This leaves the charge standing at the same time that CBS issues a mea culpa.
Welcome to the age of Newspeak, something far worse than CBS being a conduit for the DNC.
Syl,
The editor of Newsweek (too lazy to dredge it back up, most Roger’s Whackjobs have seen it before) admits that Kerry is the Media’s Man. So while they may manage to avoid using the word “we” when they do the election post-mordem, it will be hanging in the air.
And we already know, from their own annual study of their industry and its audience that they fully believe, as you said:
It really is infuriating. CBS really needed to apologize to the people they screwed and fully back off their story. Instead they basically said, “Boy, are we ever sorry we used these memos whose authenticity is just a bit too suspect for journalistic integrity – but not by much, mind you. We should have gone with just the indisputable facts about Bush’s questionable entry into the TANG, which undoubtedly got other poor Non-Fortunate Sons killed in Vietnam ’cause, after all, they couldn’t get into the TANG when he was jumping the line.”
Hey, RatherStoopid! Have a look a waiting list (has anyone ever shown any evidence there really was such a thing? I’ve seen some credible claims there was no waiting list for the fighter pilot job and Staudt seemed to say there was no oversupply of wannabe jetjocks) why do you think that was so? Was it because, just maybe, Majors and Captains with real “strings to pull” into the TANG were taking more slots than authorized?
If this “pulling strings in the TANG” is such an incredibly important story, RatherJerkweed, how ’bout telling us the whole freakin’ story instead of focusing on one stupid little piece of it.
I can think of no better reason for his drinking the Kool Aide and drink he has.
I’ve believed from the start of this that somewhere in the mix there is a con artist in a frayed suit and a copy of MS Word. I suspect CBS aren’t the only dupes in this story. I think money has paid out and that is complicating things.
Before I failed, yet again, to preview, I thought I had a link pointing to the document WaPo used as the legitimate one when showing just how badly faked the CBS docs were.
Does the term “limited modified hangout” ring a familiar note?
OK, now that I’m calmed down a bit, let me try to make the point I was after…
When it comes to this “Fortunate Son” argument that the DNC and Dan Rather and CBS are so hyped up about trying to make, dispite ZERO credible evidence, they are behaving like a dog who gets itself in a lathered, foaming, growling and barking fit every freakin’ time the mailman comes by the house.
There is no story there, even if it is true. Everybody knows some version of a Fortunate Son. We can all point to some example, somewhere. So freakin’ what!?!?
If there was a “waiting list” of qualified candidates for fighter pilot for the TANG and GWB somehow jumped that line, tell us whose ox was gored. And if there was this surplus of people breathlessly hoping to avoid serving in Vietnam by flying fighter jets for the TANG, why was Bush’s squadron, just one of several, short of Lt’s and in need of keeping Captains and Majors in jobs authorized for mere Lt’s?
There is no freaking story here, CBS! There weren’t enough youngsters available to fly the freakin’ jets. There is no evidence that GWB was any more a Fortunate Son than a million other young men his age. There were no documents that needed to be destroyed when he became Governor of TX. Burkett is a loon connected up with a bunch of fellow Loon Moonbats and Dan Rather has willfully lost all perspective and joined them.
You are dogs going berserk because the mailman has arrived, just like he does every freakin’ day. Just because the dog goes nuts when the mailman arrives doesn’t mean the mailman needs investigating.
Get over it and apologize to all the people you screwed trying to conjure one out of thin air.
Knucklehead,
No apology is necessary. I think that the American people owe it to Dan and CBS to allow them 43 days to make appropriate decisions. After all, these people are professional journalists and entitled to every bit of the respect that they have so diligently earned. Just as it is my fervent hope that Terry McAuliffe remains the face, voice and brains of the DNC for the forseeable future based upon the results that he has orchestrated to date, so I hope that Rather and CBS remain front and center as the totemic emblems of the MSM.
You really couldn’t ask for anything better.
In my general observation of the world, a lot of otherwise healthy and normal people seem to lose at least some of their marbles after hitting the venerable age of 70. Perhaps the marbles were not there in a first place, and with the age their lack is more obviously visible.
I am afraid that people like Dan Rather and George Soros fall squarely into the that category.
Rick,
Thanks. I know its for the best. We really need the Dems and the MSM beaten into complete submission and irrelevance. They aren’t worth trying to salvage and its probably impossible to salvage them anyway. But things are going to get uglier before they get better. The Barking Moonbats are not going to go down without rioting and trashing as much as they can trash and, in some cases, terrorism.
jerry
I liked your Borders story. I noticed the exact same thing in Costco yesterday. All sorts of anti-Bush books piled high all over the place with no counterbalance whatsoever. Kitty Kelly’s new book was prominently displayed and people wer flocking to it. Never mind that it has been widely and thoroughly debunked in the blogosphere. People don’t read the blogosphere.
There’s a deeper problem involved here. We used to have lots of independent bookstores, which meant lots of independent minds making book selections for their customers. We used to have lots of independent newspapers, which meant lots of independent minds writing editorials for their readers. Now we have a couple of big bookstore chains which own almost all the bookstores in almost all the towns across the land, making the same choices for all of the readers everywhere in the country. Now we have a couple of big newspaper chains who own almost all the newspapers. We have one single big chain owning almost all the radio stations. Now we have only a very few minds controlling the entire flow of news and information. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong, since these few people making all the decisions travel in the same limited social circles in the same small geographic locations they are very likely to come to the same conclusions. That’s human nature. We are social creatures and the “reality” we perceive is a function of the narratives being told by the people around us.
This is a very anti-democratic situation. We have created a “media elite” which has its hive-mind thoughts but which, really, is very unrepresentative of the nation as a whole and in some cases even of the truth itself. Then the media elite imposes its views on the rest of us whether we like it or not, whether it makes sense to us or not, whether it is even true or not. There’s a lot of anger being exhibited on this thread because the media elite are in the dominant position and we’re in the subordinate position and we’re acting like those monkeys Catherine mentioned.
We the People have brought this on ourselves. It’s cheaper to buy at Barnes and Noble, it’s cheaper to read only stories from the AP instead of supporting a local team of reporters, so in the name of economic efficiency, in the name of getting richer, yay verily in the name of the free-market and the value of private property, we have in effect destroyed our democracy. Those of you who believe the blogosphere is going to fix this problem are deluded. The blogosphere is going to provide an outlet for some of us who are like-minded (and maybe we’re the crazy ones) to get together and create our own social reality, different from the one being foisted on us by the MSM, but for those for whom the MSM-supplied narrative is the one they want to hear it won’t make a bit of difference. Those who want to believe the Kos-narrative will read Kos and become reconvinced that Bushitler is evil, and those who want to believe the Freeper-narrative will read that and related sites, and those of us who are both honest and open-minded will stay here with Roger.
Katherine is absolutely correct, the MSM is not going to go back on this and all that is going to happen when Bush wins is that they and their numerous followers are going to conclude that they simply weren’t mean enough and we Americans are even stupider than they imagined.
Knucklehead, your 7:55 AM post above was great.
Foxnews has to do something about Martha. This has happened way too many times. Martha simply cannot control the guests. Again, just now, the Dem interrupted the Rep and totally dominated the conversation. Jenny somebody (DNC spokesman during the 2000 recount) wouldn’t let anyone else talk. And Martha just sits there.
Yeah, Jenny hangs herself, but, sheesh.
Yes it was on the Rather thing but Jenny turned it into Bush lies about his service thing and Martha let her.
WichitaBoy
You’re so right. I feel like a rabid monkey right now. Sigh.
Great post. A bit too pessimistic for my normal optimistic self, but great post anyway.
Knuck’s too!
Wichita,
Donít despair. Eventually things will change for the better. Paraphrasing a speech on a different topic, this battle will be very long and hard and we will suffer lots of defeats before we will be able to proclaim victory. But we shall win, because forces of freedom and evolution are on our side. In human affairs, especially where market forces are allowed, nothing stays the same for a very long time.
Existence blogs and the Dan Ratherís affair are just the very first signs of coming change. As suggested on another thread it will only take 20-30 million years ñ of Internet time.
As regarding bookstore chains ñ I have no idea what they stock and I am not interested. I get every book I want or need from Amazon, either new or used copy, either from this country or from England. I even managed to find books that were suppressed in EU because they criticized the wisdom of eurocrats ñ there is always someone willing to sell a copy. At the last resort, there is eBay.
Internet gives true power to the people.
The DNCs use of the “fortunate son” narrative shows how out of touch the Left is when it comes to America’s military history. Fortunate sons have always served this country well in time of war. Yes, there have been shirkers and war profiteers but by and large the scions of the wealthy have been up front in every conflict. In a previous thread I mentioned the First US Volunteer Cavalry, which was made up of Cowboys and 5th Avenue dandies. There is also a very famous Pennsylvania National Guard outfit from Philadelphia made of the son’s of the mainline familiies that have served this country since the Civil war. On the individual level John Pierpont Morgan IV spent 30 years in the Navy as submariner and retired as a Captain. Let us not forget George Patton, who in his own right was from a very wealthy California family, and was by marriage the wealthiest man in the US Army.
GWB’s Squadron was done flying in Vietnam before Bush got there. That was unknown when he signed up as elements of the squadron were deployed to SE Asia. He probably would have been a better performer in his last two years had his unit been doing something besides training and a few intercepts of TU-95s probing US airspace along the southern coast. Until the end of the Cold War the ANG has always had yesterdayís toys. The reason the TANG flew F-102s is that the regular AF didnít want them. ANG Squadrons equipped with the more useful F-100 were flying an obsolescent aircraft that was useful in ground attack and were sent to SE Asia as a result. Regular Air Force Air Defense Command squadrons were flying F-106 interceptors not dogs like the F-102. At the end of Vietnam his squadron began replacing their F-102 with F-101, which was a slightly safer 2 engined interceptor. The ANG finally began to receive quality multi-mission aircraft in the late 1970ís and the early 80ís when the introduction of F-15 and F-16 into the USAF released a large number of F-4 Phantoms to the Guard. Finally, the post-Cold War drawdowns allowed the ANG to receive first line aircraft. The ANG has a history of outperforming regular AF squadrons even when equipped with last yearís aircraft.
If the DNC actually understood these facts they would not be seizing Bushís service as a big issue.
CBS was ‘misled’
John Kerry was ‘misled’
Doesn’t that make them inveterate followers?
Syl,
In order to understand Fox’s policy on letting the DNC bobbleheads chatter away you have to place yourself in the undecided pool. Imagine yourself as one too slow to have made up your mind by this point and think about whether you would be more likely to be swayed by someone making a calm, reasoned statement or by someone who is obviously rude and totally negative. Fox lets the bobbleheads chatter for the same reason they hired Estrich as a commentator. She’s not just a world class loser, she’s also totally obnoxious. Perfect for long sermons to the choir but not one you would choose as an evangelist.
Whenever you see a particularly obnoxious Dem operative going nuts attacking W think about that befuddled undecided voter. The fact that in late September the DNC is still using the “we hates Bush” cattle prod is very indicative of how low base support must actually be. I estimate that at least 80% of the moveon morons are under thirty and in need of constant stimulation to keep them focused. That’s what all the negative garbage is about. Well, that and the fact that there is very little to say about Kerry that could be considered to be positive.
I wonder if CBS is considering having him host “How to Marry a Billionaire” in the spring?
Marc,
Did you mean invertebrate followers?
Syl,
Thank you. I must say that I consider almost every post you make to be a gem. The comment you made the other day about the experts not having the right input because they’re not in Iraq was spot on and snapped me back to reality.
Katherine,
No doubt I’m too pessimistic sometimes though I try to reign myself in. Roger’s optimism is probably one of the reasons I’m attracted to his writing. You are a source of optimism to me because I know you’ve grown up in a situation of mind control far worse than what we face today with the MSM, and you have lived to see it crumble like dust.
In the Nixon days I was very pessimistic about the future and my mother would tell me stories of her childhood, when Hitler had effectively conquered Europe, when Britain was ready to cave, when Japan had effectively conquered Asia and completely destroyed our entire Pacific fleet, when the US was mostly pacifist and isolationist, when our economy was dead in the water, when our “environment” (in these parts) consisted of a cloud of knee-deep dust everywhere you went and plants couldn’t grow for lack of rain. Things looked gloomy then but in Wretchard’s phrase, “a light was still burning in the West”. We overcame then and we shall overcome now. Dum spiro spero.
No, of course not.
Just because they were flimflammed as easily as four year olds on easily checked domestic matters in a wide open society doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t show superhuman perspicacity in discerning the truth in the face of a ruthless, diabolically cunning dictator’s disinformation campaign originating from a closed and locked-down society.
Why is it that I think of the ‘Eye of Sauron’ when ever I see the CBS logo…
‘Eye of Moron’ might be more appropriate.
I’ve written yet another direct complaint to CBS News. Please, someone tell me there is some evidence that people are boycotting that loathesome network.
I wish this were my line, but I heard it on Rush today: At the present time CBS is practicing a modified, limited, hang-out.
I’m going to say it again — the Democrats planned this thing for quite some time. Look at this link that explores some interesting postings by Josh Marshall well before this story broke, all obviously coordinated.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/046687.php
CBS has a decision to make, and may have already made it. Who will smoke them out? Who will put the fire to USA Today’s behind?
Also, I think there must be HUNDREDS of people who know the real story. I doubt if that can be kept secret for long.
Wichita boy:
I am with Katherine, I don’t go to book stores anymore. It could be the Kitty Kelly crowd does not use the internet.
A gossip monger, how pathetic. Anti Bush and anti Americanism has turned into a money making scheme for people who don’t believe in money making schemes.
It can work both ways though. The other day a client told me she was voting for Bush because the Dems are acting stupid and Bush haters like her daughter in law were so unfair they shamed her.
Unintended consequences. Keep picking on the guy and sooner or later it looks like you are picking on the guy.
Knucklehead:
I knew guys who got in the Guard by just enlisting. It might have been different in some places but around here it required no special links. As usual the people raising hell about this are people who don’t know what they are talking about and as time passes and fewer people serve in the military the easier it is to “mislead” people.
Jerry
I noticed the same thing about Borders and Barnes & Noble right here in Utah, a red state if there ever was one. In the local Borders, no “Unfit for Command” that I could see, tables full of the usual sneering anti-Bush books, and the rest of the pro-Bush books on the backside of a shelf. So the other day I was on the way back from the Salt Lake airport and stopped in at Barnes & Noble. Big stack of “Unfit for Command” on a table up front, and a decent variety of other political Books. It’s hard to believe that company policy could be enforced in bookstores across the country, but it does look suspicious. Does anyone have some input on how these stores operate?
WichitaBoy
There were never many bookstores here in Logan except for very small ones without much variety. Border’s was a godsend for browsing, though I do wonder if they make much money. There is also a Hastings, and when Borders moved in they expanded their book section, so things are looking up. For technical books and anything out of the standard bookstore fare I go to Amazon. Thank the L*rd for DARPA and the internet!
Knucklehead
From a commenter at Polipundit named “Oak Leaf”:
” As a field grade officer, I have also ?helped? many people get into the military. That ?help,? is typically handing a business card from some of the recruiters that I known. In 1999, The Dallas Morning News determined that the unit Bush was trying to join had a vacancy rate of 17%, ?Records provided to The News by Tom Hail, a historian for the Texas Air National Guard, show that the unit Mr. Bush signed up for was not filled. In mid-1968, the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group, based in Houston, had 156 openings among its authorized staff of 925 military personnel?? ? The ?reported vacancy rate? of 17% may have been underestimated as ?commanders routinely exaggerate how many troops they have.?
It seems that there was no “waiting list” to vault to the head of.
Bill
WilliamA,
Thanks for the info. These are the sorts of things RatherBiased and CBS should have added to their story if they had ever even considered providing a balanced view of whether or not young George Bush’s time with the TANG really was a matter of a Fortunate Son. They never had any interest in bringing a real story forward. Rather hoped to stick a shiv in the president, simple as that.
Knucklehead,
I think that Fortunate Son is now dead. Kerry’s remarks today mark a reversion to the Iraq is a terrible diversion from the hunt for Osama theme. I expected Kerry to do this, but only after a terror strike here. I believe that he held off announcing any specific plan or policy regarding Iraq in anticipation of the strike in the hope of gaining support in the aftermath. With his poll numbers dropping and Fosrtunate Son dead it appears that the Kerry campaign is going for broke a bit early. I hope that it becomes apparent rather quickly that this move is, in effect, an invitation.
I would note that Kerry’s current position that the war in Iraq is a terrible mistake is in direct opposition to the position that he took when getting Dean out of the way was his primary objective. Kerry is not only the worst candidate I have ever seen, he is also totally without principles and very dangerous.
Dan Rather or Chris Matthews
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?
Chris Matthews is currently reviewing the Dan Rathergate story and telling it from the lofty position of “Golly, I’m sure not like Dan”. Matthews goes on to say that anyone could tell that Bill Burkett was wild, “Did you hear him make all those wild accusations on my program earlier this year?”
Is there any difference between Rather running a false story or Matthews giving the same liar equal time?
Both are sleaze merchants and should not be on the air.
Rick B,
Maybe i’m xonfusing you with another poster, but didn’t you predict that Kerry would shift to the left to shore up the base when internal polls showed he was cooked?
Anyhoo… whoever said it convinced me with that argument and I’ve taken Kerry’s recent Iraq=Vietnam schtick as being that shift to the left to support the base.
Ray,
I’m not a 100% sure, but I think Mathews also defended the forgeries early on and mocked the jammy clad bloggers.
In homage to good ole boy Dan’s down home propensity:
Does he feel like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest?
Larry R Duncan
Very, very funny.
Jamie Irons
ambisinistral,
I’ve said that but I’m probably not the only one. I think today’s move is too much, too soon. Typically when a losing candidate tosses it in and moves to protect the base the real move begins around Oct. 1. If you look at Dole’s campaign, that’s when he began focusing on helping Senators in states that didn’t matter rather than focusing on battleground states that would have benefited him.
This is somewhat different. For one thing, none of the contesting Senate races want anything to do with Kerry. For another, the moveon morons don’t need to be fired up in this way. I believe that they would be (or have been) content with a continuation of the Favorite Son theme. The minorities and union people need to be energized now and this isn’t a move that will fire them up at all.
This is a set up for an aftermath campaign that is kicking off prior to the event. As I said, this is an invitation. This level of desperation is ugly and hints at greater ugliness to come.
Wichita,
Thank you.
I go through depressive stages too often myself.
But I tell you what: when I was growing up NOBODY ìinsideî ever believed that Communism will end as it did, and we were more less convinced that the only way for it to go would be in a mushroom cloud. I heard about American anti-nuclear drills (duck and cover); our ìcivil defenseî classes in high school were complete with learning to operate what I in retrospect believe were WWI rifles and detailed description of how to organize an evacuation and decontamination of a factory in case of nuclear attack (no, we were not taught how to defend or evacuate a school). I bet none of you guys had such fun classes!
Believing that it will not happen because the other side will not start the war did not cloud our fears of nuclear war: we did not need to believe it – we knew that. However, we were pretty damn convinced that our guys, given right circumstances, would not hesitate to launch.
As it happened, even the Communist leaders had a strong sense of self-preservation. And why not? Life was definitively good for them and no matter how luxurious were their fallout shelters it was still better to be on the outside.
Anyway, after seeing the impossible event i.e. peaceful implosion of the Soviet Union, (no matter what that bloody Putin is up to now), I am most hopeful that happy future IS possible, if we work hard enough to make sure of it.
Chuck–
Both Borders and Barnes & Noble operate under the same premise: they want to make money. Their purchases are not ideologically driven. Titles from major houses, especially best-sellers, are given prominent placement in the stores. This placement is not free, but is considered an in-kind payment to the publisher in most cases. A common arrangement is for the publisher to agree to grant a larger discount in exchange for improved product placement and/or promotions in the stores.
Regarding Unfit for Command, I have noticed the same thing. At my local Borders there is no U for C in evidence. At the B & N, however, it is front and center in the store. There are two possibilities given your, Jerry’s and WichitaBoy’s testimony: (1) Regnery does not have a nationwide promotional agreement with Borders; or (2) It does have one, but the Borders employees (they of nose rings and purple hair) are actively undermining it.
I suspect it’s the latter; B & N is a much tighter ship than Borders, and its employees seem more mature to me. Moreover, U for C is a huge bestseller. It should be visible regardless of the chain’s arrangements with Regnery.
Katherine:
We had the bend over and kiss your ass good bye drills.
I grew up in Oklahoma about eight miles from Tinker Air Force base,that meant we would be part of the crater. But Daddy still sandbagged the storm cellar during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I was about 10 and my little brother was 5 and Mamma caught him stealing a bag of M&Ms out of the box of food she had packed. She slapped him and he cried and cried.
I still remember that after all these years.
I think that is what really scares me about these Islamists. I don’t think they share the sense of self preservation the communists had.
They just want to kill people. Barbarians. I had to say that. Maybe it is not politically correct, but niether is sawing off a man’s head on the internet.
Rick,
Maybe Fortunate Son is dead in the water, but it’s still on line.
Oh well, to cheer up Witchita a bit, at least the Pubbies aren’t going to let RatherDumb off the hook.
And one can always have a mild laugh at RatherLame’s expense, courtesy of Ace of Spades.
Ummm… I have no idea if Lucianne is a reliable site or not – rarely go there if something doesn’t link me there. She’s reporting (no link) this:
Ace of Spades pointed there (I guess that’s a “hattip”?). Anyway, no idea what this might mean and, obviously, there are no details yet, but why the heck would Mapes ask Lockhart to call Burkett?
I mean, it couldn’t be to get Lockhart to talk Burkett into coughing up the memos, could it?
I go through depressive stages too often myself.
I used to, but now I take medication for that.
Rick: This is a set up for an aftermath campaign that is kicking off prior to the event. As I said, this is an invitation. This level of desperation is ugly and hints at greater ugliness to come.
… but medication or no, I have to admit to having had the same dark thought. It seems very unlikely that the level of anti-Bush, anti-Republican hatred will simply drop once Bush wins, even if it’s a big big win.
I’m frankly amazed that there haven’t been any substantial assassination attempts against Bush — although, per Drudge maybe I shouldn’t speak so soon.
I wouldn’t be at the least surprised to see massive attempts to invalidate votes, harass election boards — even “nonviolent” attempts to interrupt the Inauguration.
And what the heck, as long as I’m completely whacked out about this stuff, Drudge is reporting BUSH OFFICIALS WANT CBSNEWS MODERATOR OFF DEBATE.
Well, if anyone thought this thing might fade away, it seems like Rove will now make sure it doesn’t die for at least a little while.
Charlie: stop that! I am not telling YOU how my life got better though the chemistry! :->
Terrye,
Maybe it is politically incorrect, but needs to be repeated. Yes, these Islamist are soulless barbarians. I only wish that we could more effectively facilitate their wishes of reaching Raisins inthe Paradise. Saying that is probably even more non-PC.
Back on the subject of Kerry, I understand that now he promises early withdrawal. We know that the terrorist and former Baathists are only waiting for it to happen to start wholesale ìpacificationî of the Iraqi population. Kerry also keeps saying how proud he is of his anti-war activities, which led to ìpacificationî of the South Vietnamise.
What is it with this man? Does he really enjoy actively contributing to slaughter of innocent civilians? Maybe there is something to his admission that he committed atrocities. Even if he did not do it, he seems to be fantasizing about it. Was he ever evaluated by a psychiatrist?
Kathrine,
I think the official diagnosis was nuttier than an almond tree in August but I can’t seem to find it in my DSM-IV.
ìI’m frankly amazed that there haven’t been any substantial assassination attempts against Bushî
Charlie,
This has been one of my greatest fears for years nowÖ
One Sunday morning we woke up to honking of the cars and cheers down the street. I ran to the computer to check the news, to make sure that, that nobody plugged Bush. You have to understand: here in SF the rejoicing would probably lift the sky.
Turned out that it was some ìwalk for a cureî. What a relief it was, I tell youÖ
Rick,
ROTFL!!!!!!!
Here’s the AP report about Lockhart speaking to Burkett at Mapes request.
CBS ran full-tilt with a bogus story that was plugged into Fortunate Son within hours. Mapes was talking to the Kerry team, the Kerry team talked to Burkett, Cleland passed Burkett’s number to Kerry’s opposition research people, “it was common knowledge in the Kerry campaign that CBS was working on the story, yet
Nobody in the Kerry campaing had anything to do with this other than speaking directly to the guy who handed the docs to CBS and working directly with the CBS producer on the story.
They really do think we’re stupid, don’t they.
Katherine, it’s worth remembering that “God protects fools, drunks, and the United States of America.”
Seems to cover the moonbats, might cover Bush, and gets the rest of us.
Cripes, Hugh Downs is now complaining about the “chilling effect” of CBS having to back down on a story based on forgery.
Knucklehead,
Let us not forget that Lockhart got his start as a Dukakis flack. That would be in the great state of MA while working with Estrich. Let’s see, I know there is someone else in the campaign from MA. And I believe that he worked for Dukakis, too. Hmmm. Oh yeah, John Kerry! How could I forget?
You could draw the link chart on this thing on a post card and have room for a full text explanation.
I noticed that the Bush people are not letting this go and that makes me think that something might be afoot.
I hope they can find a way to nail Terry McAuliffe’s hide to the wall, it could not happen to a nicer propaganda artist.
As for killing Bush, well if the Republicans let Clinton live I really don’t think the Dems…but then again they were crazy enough to nominate Kerry.
The thing is the whole thing is so stupid. All of it. The charges, the memos.
All of it.
Charlie,
Amen.
I am pretty much an agnostic, my husband admits to being an atheist.
After 9/11 I turned to him and said: The fact that we have Bush as a President after this crazy election almost makes me to believe that God is looking after us. My husband agreed.
“This level of desperation is ugly and hints at greater ugliness to come.”
That’s for sure. I’m surprised that Kerry’s sister, running around Australia telling them “we are endangering the Australians now by this wanton disregard for international law and multilateral channels” hasn’t generated more traction over here.
I find it incredible that, during a time of war, a candidate’s campaign would be actively trying to undermine a US alliance. Even more incredible in that Kerry has weakly claimed he would ease our burden by involving more countres in Iraq. Truely despicable behavior.
ambi:
Kerry has a history has undermining sitting presidents in time of war. It is kind of his best thing.
If by some horrible chance he should win this election [making the sign of the evil eye here], I hope that some enterprising Republican returns the favor and really screws with him.
Fresh Air,
The discussion of whether B&N and Borders and Costco are interested only in money or have a political agenda is an interesting one. It reminds me of the discussion of what Soros is up to and the discussion of why Viacom is allowing CBS to go off the rails. I don’t know; but personally I think that book buying decisions are made by individual book buyers who live in New York or Seattle (is Borders still headquartered in Ann Arbor?–left of Manhattan in that case) and they have biases and sometimes they are willing to push the issue in a political way because they believe the matter is so important. One thing I think is true is that both the pro- and the anti-Bush factions believe for the most part that it’s a matter literally of life and death who wins the election. In a matter of life and death, wouldn’t you agree that a few rules could be bent?
Here’s another piece of evidence for what I’m claiming about the systematic nationwide bias of the bookstores:
I have a hard time believing that those rows and rows of anti-American books make a lot of economic sense in red-blooded small towns in Georgia. It smacks of cultural imperialism to me.
As for Amazon as an alternative, yes it’s truly great, but I don’t see how relying on Amazon as our only source of books is a superior solution to relying on Barnes and Noble as our only source of books. If all we have is Amazon and if Amazon chooses not to stock something for political reasons then we’re right back to Soviet Encyclopedia non-persons, are we not?
AP ties Joe Lockhart and Max Cleland.
Of course, neither of them had anything to do with the story or how it was transmitted along the line.
Heh.
WB, I agree in principle, but as far as I can tell, Amazon stocks everything.
Hmmmm… this is an interesting post at LGF.
“…I hear you but one of the memo files I checked had an internal Acrobat file creation date of 2/6/04. If anyone’s going to check for computer sales/returns, check February and look for an HP PrecisionPro Scanner sale. I still believe the whole fax claim is bogus.
We only know that happened based on forged documents. They could have pasted in a fax header as easily as those signatures. The only thing that makes me think it is possible the memos were on paper at some point is the rumpled page marks someone found by boosting the grays. However, that too could have been stripped in.
They used Illustrator 6.66 to create the PDF I have which contains all four memos. Nobody uses that except computer graphics experts in my experience. Maybe that’s standard at CBS, but I’m suspicious of the entire process. What they say happened is not real. That’s the only thing I’m sure of.
Look beyond Burkett… he’s too easy.”
I’ve expressed sceptisism over Burkett being the forger of these memos. I favor a sleazy con man. Admittedly I don’t have any real rational reason for that preference, I just prefer a scenario with a banal criminal yanking everybody’s chains for a pocketful of silver. Regardless, is this a thickening of the plot?
Oops, posted too soon. Here’s INDC’s story. Notice two things:
Speaking of blood in the water…
What do we call Dan Rather?
“Chum”.
Charlie,
That’s what they want you to believe….
OT:
Here’s the trailer to 41.11 .
Monday is not generally a get it all out day. The Clinton team taught us that Friday was the best day for that. What else is going on here?
How the hell does this tie to Kerry’s weathervane performance today? This is going through the looking glass. Is Rather going to do a take down of the Kerry campaign?
WichitaBoy
Thank you. I believe we must keep Iraq from becoming a symbol rather than a reality. The MSM coverage of events over there isn’t helping, though in one way it actually is. Spotlighting the horrors as they occur remind us of the barbarity of the enemy. That’s fine and makes people wonder why some think we should stop fighting them. But the fact that the MSM doesn’t give us a hint as to the will of the Iraqi people themselves undermines that and causes some people to decide to let them all kill each other and just leave us out of it.
The ‘experts’ simply aren’t listening to the Iraqi’s. That’s being blind, stupid, and, yes, racist.
That the Dems don’t give a flying fig about 25 million people is appalling. That they nominated someone who didn’t give a fig for the Vietnamese makes perfect sense. I hope they go down in flames.
Rick Ballard
Yes, I see your point. That girl damned herself with her motor mouth. But it also made me turn off the TV which has been on since 9/11.
I did turn it back on a few hours later though.
Rick
This level of desperation is ugly and hints at greater ugliness to come.
I’m always fascinated by your take on these things; could you expand a bit?
Jamie Irons
WichitaBoy:
It smacks of cultural imperialism to me.
Hee, Hee. Oh, yes, it does. And I feel that they think I am some sort of ignorant savage running around dressed in palm leaves, desperately in need of civilization and “religion”. Damned imperialists.
Katherine
Anyway, after seeing the impossible event i.e. peaceful implosion of the Soviet Union, (no matter what that bloody Putin is up to now), I am most hopeful that happy future IS possible, if we work hard enough to make sure of it.
I have to say this: reading your postings, which show a rare combinatiion of tough-mindedness and almost sunny optimism, makes me think you must be a remarkable person.
Jamie Irons
Rick
I think the official diagnosis was nuttier than an almond tree in August but I can’t seem to find it in my DSM-IV.
You need to update to the latest edition, DSM-IV-TR…
Jamie Irons
Charlie
Cripes, Hugh Downs is now complaining about the “chilling effect” of CBS having to back down on a story based on forgery.
I thought he had been embalmed.
Jamie Irons
WichitaBoy: ìIf all we have is Amazon and if Amazon chooses not to stock something for political reasons then we’re right back to Soviet Encyclopedia non-persons, are we not?î
There are many other independent Internet sites out there catering to specific tastes in books (e.g. Prometheus books http://www.prometheusbooks.com/).
Sure thing, Amazon can try promoting their favorite titles on the home page and not stocking titles that Jeff Bezos doesnít like. But Amazon is still in a cutthroat competition with the brick book-chains, so their profit motive remains the prominent one. In my ìKatherineís storeî they recommend books based on my previous purchases; they are not always on the money, but often are. They are also good about sending alerts when my favorite author publishes again. If I am looking for a title that is not out I can not only preorder but ask them to alert the publisher that there are customers looking for it. Amazon is simply more customer friendly ñ because they have to. In addition, enabling purchases of used books among the customers pretty much eliminates any institutional bias.
Brick bookstore monopoly has been broken some time ago, and a good thing too. As long as book gets published, one can always find it on the net. This is quite the opposite from the Soviet system.
Jamie,
You are too kind!
Jamie,
Both campaigns have gamed the aftermath of a terrorist strike here prior to the elections since at least March. They’ve study grouped it and analyzed potential responses for months. The security issue has been primary since the beginning of the campaign and Kerry’s reporting for duty was about as good a response as the DNC could come up with. The polls started heading south on Kerry immediately after the convention – even prior to the Swiftvets taking hold. He’s the only candidate in history to have a negative convention bounce. The polls shifted very strongly in W’s favor after the Republican convention and are actually continuing to build for him – especially in swing states. This too is actually close to being unheard of. Maximum convention bounce usually peaks at 7-10 days after the convention and then there is a pull back of at least a third of the convention bounce. That’s not happening this time.
Kerry’s speech today seems to me to be one that would have been given after the expected terrorist strike. He is essentally saying that we shouldn’t be in Iraq and clearly signaling that he will be pulling out as soon as possible if elected. I intepret that as an invitation to al Queada that their moment has come. I truly hope that I am wrong but I find alternative explanations unconvincing. In 10 days this campaign will be over if W’s momemtum is not checked. The situation is clearly jelling right now and once the Kerry goes down by more than 8%, it’s over.
Kerry is going to continue with the most negative campaign imaginable banking on a terror strike to change people’s minds. It won’t work, but that’s what they are going to try.
Am I the only one who heard on TV that Mary Mapes’ father denonunced her as a militant feminist? Would a militant feminist be fair and balanced toward George W Bush? Would a militant feminist invite Joe Lockhart to call her source for a hit piece on Bush? Would a militant feminist be a Kerry supporter?
I ask you decide
Katherine
I’m actually a mean S.O.B.
Rick
Thanks.
Wow! Could these guys (the Democrats) have sunk that far?
Jamie Irons
ìI interpret that as an invitation to al Queada that their moment has come.î
Jesus, Rick, this is not only sinister, but truly evil, if true.
But Kerry is working very hard on the ìnuttier than an almond tree in Augustî image, so I am starting to believe that he is capable of anythingÖ.
ìI’m actually a mean S.O.B.î
Jamie, thatís cool, I cannot stand nicey-nicey people (and sweet little old ladiesÖ.)
Katherine
I cannot stand nicey-nicey people (and sweet little old ladiesÔøΩ…
Great. I kind of feel like being mean to innocent, sweet little old ladies. If any post on this thread, I’m going to say something really cruel and boorish…
Jamie Irons
Rick Ballard,
The polls shifted very strongly in W’s favor after the Republican convention and are actually continuing to build for him – especially in swing states.
Here‘s some confirmation of that from TradeSports. I’ve been fascinated to watch this in the last couple of weeks. I’ve seen Missouri and Ohio go from Kerry to neutral to Bush to strong Bush. Now Wisconsin has flipped to Bush and suddenly today Iowa and New Hampshire have flipped neutral. Pennsylvania is very weak Kerry, while Minnesota, New Mexico and Oregon are weak Kerry. I now expect all of Iowa, New Hampshire, and Pennsylvania to flip over to Bush.
What can Kerry do? I think all Iraq all the time is what is left. The MSM will do all it can, showing nasty pictures from Iraq and emphasizing American deaths there 24/7. They know they’re losing; they think it’s a matter of life and death that they win; they will pull out all the stops.
Jamie,
Both parties expect an attack and have gamed it to the nth degree. It won’t help the Dems if it happens too late. I am not accusing the Dem party of this at all. If you look at Kerry and his quest for power, the ’96 election is illustrative. Kerry and Weld made what appeared to be a binding spending pact early on in the campaign. When Kerry got too far behind and definitely appeared to be losing, he broke that pact (and his word) as if it didn’t exist. Weld didn’t have time to raise sufficient dough and was narrowly beaten. That is the basis for Kerry’s thin reputation for being a “strong closer”.
The party didn’t stand him up and make him give that speech today. It was his decision. He’s a dangerous man, as I said earlier, nothing is out of bounds for him.
WichitaBoy:
they will pull out all the stops.
And I think it will be overkill. Their credibility will dive even further. This stuff works as long as folks believe it. As soon as they begin to doubt, it just reinforces the doubt. Like a psychic who claims to read the hidden card 99.999% percent of the time, folks will find it unbelievable and conclude the MSM are lying. The 61st minute has started perceptions in that direction, it could’nt have arrived at a better time for Bush.
Mitsubishi has pulled all $160M of its advertising from the Networks, they felt they were paying too much for the number of viewers reached. If the viewership starts to drop we may be coming up to a tipping point, and a year or two from now the MSM may be unrecognizable. Well, real different anyway.
WichitaBoy:
I’m not seeing the bias quite as obviously as you are. Locally, the Borders had Unfit for Command on the table in the front of the store (quite prominently, from what I could see) and even though the bias is there, it’s not as complete as you seem to imply, at least here. And the Costco is actually more well-balanced than most places in their book selection. At various times, I’ve seen Coulter, Hannity and quite a few of the other prominent conservatives fairly well represented on the book table there. Selection, as always, is hit-or-miss, so it’s more a matter of what’s come out recently than anything, I imagine.
WB,
I wonder how much of a lag there is to TradeSports. I know that it is real time trading but I wonder if the trading is based on hunches as the direction of the polls. I’m going to have to look at them more closely. Perhaps they are closer to reality than I had previously thought.
I wonder how much of a lag there is to TradeSports. I know that it is real time trading but I wonder if the trading is based on hunches as the direction of the polls. I’m going to have to look at them more closely. Perhaps they are closer to reality than I had previously thought.
Rick, the “wisdom of crowds” hypothesis would suggest that they do.
It’s interesting stuff. A little hard to explain, but very interesting stuff.