Watershed, n. . . . 3. A critical point that serves as a dividing line.
What’s happening in Madison, Wisconsin, is not your ordinary blip in the news cycle. It is, as a headline in our former paper of record put it, “A Watershed Moment.” But it’s not (to continue with the rest of the headline) a watershed moment only “for Public-Sector Unions.” It’s a watershed moment for America’s self-understanding.
“These kinds of high-profile public-employee battles have enormous stakes,” said Benjamin Sachs, a professor of labor law at Harvard. “We’re still feeling the consequences of President Reagan confronting the union in the air controllers’ strike. For anyone interested in union rights, the fight in Wisconsin couldn’t be more important.”
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Right you are, Benjie. And its importance is something that resonates far beyond those interested in union rights. What’s happening in Madison is one front in the battle for the soul of America.
Does that sound like an exaggeration? It isn’t. One thing for which we must be grateful to Barack Obama is the way he has dramatized a basic existential choice facing this country. That choice can be posed in various ways depending on the vantage point you assume. If you look at the evolution of the country from the time of the Founders, you might say that we face a choice between being custodians of freedom, on the one hand, or superintendents of security, on the other. If you consider the issue in terms of politics, in terms of how we choose to govern ourselves, we face a choice between limited government, which ensures greater individual freedom while also demanding greater individual responsibility, and unlimited government, which promises greater security while also requiring greater government control over the levers of economic life.
What a pile of abstractions! “Limited government,” “greater security,” “levers of economic life.” Those are indeed possible names for some of the realities we face, but they are like coins worn smooth by overuse. The stark outlines of their significance have been nearly effaced in the hurly-burly of intellectual exchange and commentary.
Nearly effaced. Not quite. We can still discern the faint trace of what’s at stake behind those anodyne phrases. It’s a matter of the sort of life we are choosing for ourselves and our children. Hence the heat of the rhetoric that both sides are bringing to bear on the drama unfolding in Madison (and percolating elsewhere). “Walker’s Cruel Union-Smashing Tactics” screams one headline. “Unions & Dems vs. the People in Wisconsin” counters another.
The news Friday emanated mostly from one side: thousands of disgruntled (yet overpaid) teachers, many with students in tow, had skipped work to go to Madison to protest Governor Walker’s bill. The 14 Democratic state senators had also skipped work: they fled Madison and holed up in Illinois to forestall a vote (there are 19 Republican senators, a vote requires a quorum of 20). The truancy was not playing well and yesterday saw a dozen or more doctors abetting fraud by brazenly handing out sick notes to all and sundry. (I see that some nanny state morons in California are tracking truant students with GPS devices: I hope they have some left over for the teachers who play truant, and encourage their students to follow suit.) Yesterday also saw thousands of tea party activists join the mêlée in Madison. Now signs saying “Don’t tread on me,” “The gravy train is over,” and “Sorry we’re late, we work for a living” joined the “Don’t tread on DC” and “Kill the bill” signs.
I sometimes wondered during the 32 years while I enjoyed the generosity and gullibility of New Jersey’s taxpayers what it would be like to lose my job and have to go to work somewhere. It would have been a tragedy, but I can’t imagine getting indignant over it.
I think it is more than “indignant” that we are seeing in WI.
The “outside” people are ramping things up to boiling, thanks to their president Obama.
The signs that we have seen on different sites are outrageous, simply disgusting in some instances, and nothing to do with teachers, I hope.
The Dr., excuses need to be investigated and if there really is a Dr lying for the lying teachers, they should be brought up on charges of fraud.
The democrat politicians that fled…need to be brought up for impeachment in not doing the people’s business, and their pay docked. Also, explain to the majority of people that voted for Walker, knowing his plans as he was very open
These teachers have not lost their jobs..yet. Walker said that if his plans did not work, there would be a lay off of approx 6,000 to help with the budget short falls.
>> you’re right in saying gullible taxpayers…but we are all waking up out here. I hope that this only the beginning of a public taxpayer rebellion.
sorry this was a retype of below ,…with wrong wording..although if the “public” employees have any sense they would see the writing on the wall of the private sector walls..we’re finally waking up to all the nonsense!!!, and have a riot to save themselves from the union bosses..
I have a novel idea-how about as part of the awakening of the American public(to the fraud being perpetrated on them via strong arm unions and the Democratic Party)that the other side(the hardworking folks)starts giving some ultimatums of their own.
Imagine what would happen if millions of Tea Partiers really turned the tables.IF as part of their demands they tell the union thugs and their rank and file thusly-unless and until they cease fleecing the rest of America, the gravy train will be over.Since their fattened checks are coming out of hostage held American taxpayers, there will be a MASS exodus of tax filers, many will choose ‘underground’ payment for services rendered.While this is not an option for a portion of the public, it IS for those who are creative.
Actually, it should be, NO taxation under an out of control gov’t.Period.
Yes, indeed. Something needs to be done. We the people need to flex our muscles in the best way possible to remind these thugs just how small and insignificant they really are.
Sorry Adina, but as a California resident I would prefer that the “Mass Exodus” consist of the progressives, public employees, food prohibitionists, drink prohibitionists, plastic bag and light bulb prohibitionists, high speed rail enthusiasts, et al. for once finding their own place and implementing their own shining city on their own dang hill!! Leave the rest of us alone to wrestle the consequences of freely made decisions.
Adina, you are awesome (I know you from the Jerusalem Post talk-backs: you ARE awesome):
“I have a novel idea-how about as part of the awakening of the American public(to the fraud being perpetrated on them via strong arm unions and the Democratic Party)that the other side(the hardworking folks)starts giving some ultimatums of their own…there will be a MASS exodus of tax filers”
The idea is great, I agree, but isn’t it almost exactly what AYN RAND has proposed? The exodus of the productive ppl, to leave the parasites on their own, without “food”? I know, the book was mainly about the “rich-rich” productive ppl who make the exodus, but it was writen in the 50-ies, the middle class that is exploited by the unions now, wasn’t so important.
But today Ayn would have definitely included the middle class into the exodus group. SHRUG, ATLAS, SHRUG!
Marina, thanks for your kind words.
Posters should know that I do not utter my recommendations lightly,urging otherwise law abiding citizens to eschew their FAIR tax obligations.
Having co-owned a CPA TAX practice I take the tax code seriously, knowing full well that its onerous rules are non sustainable, but that is another topic.However,I take even more seriously the upending of freedoms by an out of control, thuggish Federal regime,its main patrons/recipients being union fed strongmen.
Therefore, in order to BRING back the rule of law, to uphold the Constitution, (where it is illegal for PUBLIC unions to ‘bargain’ with those who are beholden to them,fox guarding henhouse….)it is imperative to stop them in their tracks.
Thus, without the tens of millions paid in by hostage held taxpayers, union thugs will be forced to cease and desist.
In a real sense this war-yes, it is a war- is long overdue.Daylight is a very good disinfectant, and many who were previously unaware of the financial precipice, which out of control unions have created, are at least now in the know.
A silver ling of sorts, ignorance is NOT bliss, it is deadly.
I see that the government unions have driven the peoples representatives from the house.
Where I come from that’d be called an old fashioned coup, insurrection, whatever and the riot squad would be brought in post-haste to put it down. No group, no matter who they think they are has the authority to shutdown the peoples house though threat of force and intimidation.
Yet nobody (as yet) seems to want to call this exactly what it is. Is it par for the course for your government employees to intimidate your legislatures into running away?
An uprising of a mass of government employees against the people.
The decent people of the state had better pray that the police and their union stay neutral. Oh how 1950′s eastern Europe it all sounds!
Good luck to you Wisconsin and may the better people of the US find success in your attempts to cleanse yourselves of the sickness of government unions!
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/opinion/21krugman.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage
Since the parallel chronological decline of education quality plotted with the dates of control legislation and unionization is undeniable, why would government controlled health care and FDA controlled by pharmaceutical and chemical corporations be expected to improve anything except CEO bonuses and legislated profit?
Only internet shutdown can prevent the spread of information revealing the government / corporate corruption that uses US citizens for its guinea pigs being fed genetically engineered food with intended programmed population control. EPA control with many yet unnamed tentacles can use its appointed czars to force a majority into irreversible controlled circumstances. The big question is “How far must they go before arousing a nationwide revolt ?”.
I think it is more than “indignant” that we are seeing in WI.
The “outside” people are ramping things up to boiling, thanks to their president Obama.
The signs that we have seen on different sites are outrageous, simply disgusting in some instances, and nothing to do with teachers, I hope.
The Dr., excuses need to be investigated and if there really is a Dr lying for the lying teachers, they should be brought up on charges of fraud.
The democrat politicians that fled…need to be brought up for impeachment in not doing the people’s business, and their pay docked. Also, explain to the majority of people that voted for Walker, knowing his plans as he was very open
These teachers have not lost their jobs..yet. Walker said that if his plans did not work, there would be a lay off of approx 6,000 to help with the budget short falls.
>> you’re right in saying gullible taxpayers…but we are all waking up out here. I hope that this only the beginning of a PRIVATE taxpayer rebellion.
The ultimate issue here is the answer to the question, “why aren’t ALL public employees covered by social security, just like the rest of us?” I never understood why our servants are entitled to benefit plans and programs that are better that those available to non-sponges. Sure, some of them work hard but ALL of us do (or else we lose our jobs).
I was just on the Greyhound website looking for gift-certificates. I had the idea to send bus tickets to my Dem assembly member and Dem state senator. When the time comes for them to chose between the people of California or it’s bureaucracy I want them to have the option to run away to Reno.
Gasp! Gasp! Gasp!
You want them to spend your money on hookers and booze and gambling?
Jesus; Buy your own ticket; You’ll save money and have a good time!
I would much rather my representatives were drunk, gambling, and spending money on hookers in Reno. That is much cheaper and less destructive than what they do when in the statehouse
I have lost several jobs, and quit quite a few as well. I wound up starting a business and creating jobs. I feel sorry for those to whom tenure or anything of the sort has been granted. They will never completely know what freedom tastes like, and it is almost impossible for them to ever enjoy the spiritual benefits of a career change. If security is your only pursuit, you expose yourself to the trappings of boredom, bitterness and even cynicism. Not good for you, nor for the rest of us.
Madison, the city named after our prophet of freedom and individual responsibility!
BULLSEYE, PROFESSOR!
State Worker Salary Search-sac.bee is a web site that gives the name, position and salary of every California state employee. The two highest paid state employees are Ted Telford, Cal football coach and Ben Howland, UCLA basketball coach both at over $2,000,000 per year.
A much lesser known state employee is/was Manuel Trevino a Calif Hwy Patrolman who received a salary of $286,782 in 2010 and $132,418 in 2009. The outsized salary seems to be an effort to maximize a final year’s salary to be awarded a pension of truly outlandish proportions. Unused sick pay and maximum overtime can seemingly double your last year’s pay at the CHP.
Peace officers are given a lifetime pension of 90% of their final annual salary, which for Mr Trevino would be $258,104. The present cost of an annunity paying such a sum would be about $4,300,000. Trevino has hit the lottery jackpot simply by being a Calif state employee.
This is far from an isolated case. The top earners at the CHP in 2010 all had bonanza years compared to their prior years earnings.
The state of Calif is bankrupt and the public employee unions bear much of the blame. Good luck to WI in trying to rein in their unions.
The incest involved between the democrat party and the public employee unions is nothing short of fraud on the public. The city of Bell, CA is only in the news for the expanded scale of that same robbery of the public treasury.
Great information. You need to go viral with this info.
Get a blog and publish, publish, publish.
And keep commenting here with a link to your blog.
I would like to second Cybergeezer’s suggestion. If you would get that information out it might just help expose this fraud.
Most of the focus has understandably been on the economic aspects of public sector unions and the crippling effect that their pay and benefits have on state budgets. Almost everyone has also commented on the irrationality of public sector unions that are able to use membership dues (originating with tax dollars) to create war chests that they use to elect the very (Democrat) officials who sit across the bargaining table from them.
There is another factor that receives less attention. When public sector employees are unionized, managers and supervisors cease to have a function. I have worked in the public sector and can attest that almost all “managerial staff” serve no real purpose. Supervisors are terrified to either discipline or control line workers becasue this will involve the labyrinthine work rules of most collective bargaining agreements. Terminating a bad employee is either impossible or takes months to accomplish. If the worker does not like an order than he or she can tie it up with a grievance. Elected officials in these situations have usually given away so much control to the union (via the collective bargaining agreement) that middle-managers either give up and become inconspicuous drone-like time-servers awaiting their pensions or “join the natives” and conspire with the union to suborn those supervisors above them. (This latter situation is even more pronounced if management has it’s own “administrators union.”)
Some of the classes that I teach involve “management theory.” Nearly all of the texts and scholarship in this area involve studies of private corporations and employee/management relations in the private sector. There is an assumption that the supervisory techniques developed for private industry can be transferred to the public sector. They can’t. The fact that the overall “boss” is an elected official who is beholden to union money for his or her position makes managementspeak terms such as “holistic management” or “synergistic management” or “team building” totally irrelevant.
Peter Drucker wrote one of his excellent books on non-profit company management. It’s been 25 years since I read it, and I can’t recall the title, but it had excellent suggestions for such organizations. I don’t recall that it covered government employment but I wish he written one on that topic. I’m sure that government employee unions would never have occurred to him since they are absurd on their face.
Great point! As a supervisor, all you can do is try to improve performance of those who aren’t too far gone. And perhaps give an unsatisfactory review. That’s it. I witnessed a totally incompetent employee “work” for 2 years thru the whole firing process where the supv had to “counsel” the person every day to give work instructions. Work instructions that were never followed. Dragged on and on until the lucky employee was vested in the retirement system (injust 5 years) and retired on a disability pension with health benefits. Which taxpayers will be paying for a good 30 years. It’s hideous.
Supervisors can only try and try to do a good job. Only if lucky to have good employees will the agency do a good job also. I’d say 25% of the people could go and nobody would miss them.
Because I am so brilliant (ahem), I note how the moment this story broke…. actually, the moment I heard the DNC and OFA were galloping in re-inforcements, I said (and blog commented), “this is very very big. This has enormous ramifications”. I was even using the Gettysburg analogy, which I see Rand Simburg has adopted as well.
But that’s not significant. What really strikes me now is the number of people I have mentioned that to, people who cannot tell me who John Beohner is or the name of our vice-president, much less their own congressman, who have responded to me in agreement. They, who could not politically analyze their way out of a paper bag…. see the enormous stakes of what is going on in Madison, and see it right from the get-go. There ain’t no hiding behind ‘American Idol’ in this fight. It’s all-in.
That’s more than a little scary.
Poignant, indeed, Andrew.
Thanks for the condiment.
Very ‘scary’
The community organizer will agitate his way back into the WH-
‘visceral politics’
http://potterwilliamsreport.com/2011/02/20/obamas-wisconsin-strategy-for-2012.aspx
I agree…. this is huge! Obama and his minions are in a life and death battle here, and for that reason it scares me. I would not put anything past them – they are fighting for survival and will stoop to new levels of dirty tricks and unethical behavior
I don’t find this a bit scary. November 2nd was the beginning of a New American Revolution. There is no Constitutional or other reason why Public Employees should be allowed to unionize and extort the people who pay their salaries and benefits. It’s all over. This is just the Battle of Lexington. The idiot teachers and Obama thugs thought they won a victory by their outrageously, arrogant DEMANDS and whining. The Senators have made fools of themselves – these Fleebaggers will simply have to face the ultimate ignominy when they return.
Just to add in: Lexington happened, and then followed a lot a bloodshed and terrror in a conflict that we (US revolutionaries) damn near lost – It was a really close thing, and it probably wouldn’t have happened without the French.
Hence, scary. We can like the lineup of forces, I myself am pretty confident, but, as they say, “no plan (or prediction) survives contact with the enemy”. Ya just never know.
I am sick to death of teachers whining and complaining about their pay. Before any of these individuals took thier first education course they knew teaching did not pay well compared to other professions. But the world is full of people who move next to the airport and then complain about the noise.
Having a flat tax that everyone pays regardless of income, say 5% Fed and 2% state, would dry up that lottery-like pool of money that gov’t's use to enable the silliest and most wasteful systems.
Common sense would be enforced by a budget as every penny would need to be accounted for and there would be no room to be involved in our lives.
No more money to the Palestine Authority, Israel, Egypt, the Maldives or Kenya. No money for professional sports stadiums, sex changes, fat pensions and ACORN. Property taxes should be set in stone at 1%, never allowed to be changed and no state sales tax – none.
The biggest oppressor and threat to America is its own government. Stay out of our lives. Lets rebuild our priorities from the ground up by sensible things like roads and street lighting and keep the social engineering entirely away.
Although one can argue about who is the worst President ever, there is no doubt that Obama is the only President in our history who doesn’t like that history.
One of your best posts, James. *thumbs up*
Can you imagine the great gnashing of teeth if everyone had to pay income taxes and have some skin in the game?
The only trouble with this is it would require some people to get up off their fat, lazy-@$$, welfare-receiving butts and actually have to go out and get a real job for the first time in their lives.
Besides being the first “black” president and the first “lightbringing genius” president (or whatever the hell other fantasies his stooges have dreamt up to call him) Obama is also the first president to hate average Americans more than the foreign enemies who are trying to kill them.
Thank you, Roger, this is one of the best articles I’ve seen on what’s going on in WI. Watershed moment or tipping point, the outcome of this battle will have an impact for many years.
Obama, one and done. The battle started in November and continues in Wisconsin. Here’s hoping the MSM continues to eff up and stick to the talking points, nothing to see here, move on.
Yes, this is as close to a perfect event as could have happened.
1. It deals directly with the seminal issue…tyrannical unaccountable government vs government responsive to the people.
2. It paints a key related issue in clear bright colors…”elitist” insistance on paying off political cronies and sychophants.
3. Toss away the lies about Tucson…now the country can see real political extremism at work.
4. The Organizer in Chief couldn’t resist jumping in…it’s the professor and the cop on steroids. For the moment at least, the fog of lies has cleared and the country can see who he really is
5. And most amazingly of all, the corrupt, imbicilic, but still powerful media criminals are SHOWING IT ON TV. Not surprisingly, they are totally unaware that 70% of the country is outraged by the undemocratic, illegal demands of a greedy few inflicted on hard-working Americans.
I wish I could give the Republicans credit for everything. But at least they deserve credit for taking a stand on the budget. Everything else is wonderful wonderful good fortune.
Let’s hope the afraidoftheirshadowrepublicans stand their ground and continue to let this gift from heaven play out.
Sorry, Pro, a Breitbart employee has already admitted to setting the whole thing up… both the teachers and the fleeing politicians.
(for the humor deprived–the Big Journalism post I link to above is a satire.)
If an election can be overturned by a mob the Republic is dead.
Are you any relation to George Washington?
No, geezer, I think he’s a reincarnation of the Gracchi.
What is of interest is that it is untrue that ‘greater government provides greater security’. It is actually the exact opposite.
Increased government regulation and increased government rules actually lead to below the radar or hidden economic and social forms of behavior. The black market increases, the gang and drug activities increase. Then, special interest groups emerge, who are deemed by the government to merit special treatment unavailable to others in the population. And, there’s an increase of dependency where the individual, who has lost any sense of responsibility, moves into a dependent and irresponsible state – permanent welfare, constant scamming of the rules, having children as a form of increased welfare benefits.
The individual no longer works but relies on government care; he no longer looks after his health; the government is supposed to do that. No longer saves for retirement; the government is supposed to do that. No longer takes care of his environment; the government is supposed to do that.
As Dennis Prager often says “The bigger the government the smaller the citizen!”
The beauty of this is that once again liberal apes have displayed their stupidity. No one on the left thought there would be a counter-reaction, the apes all thought that as usual the mindless media would cover for their greed, no reaction? Surprise, times have changed, the “racist” Tea Party is on the scene. And people out of work, and those in jeopardy of losing their jobs or with pay raises frozen are noticing, along with a true, real, counter culture media, from the right, from Normal People. Thank God !
Wha zup’ Obama? How’s the presidential busing going? Trash!
We all MUST continue to keep ALL the politicians feet to the flame. We are in this for the soul of America.
WI tea party should and need to protest in support of the governor.
This is the beginning and we all must keep up the good work, no slacking now. Not for a while will we be safe. It is time to finish the progressives and socialist and marxists.
I sure hope the GOP dosnt cave….and that the independents(who voted for Obama)will finally see how terrible this man is and his ideas. How the liberals are violent(not all but WAY more that the tea party), closed minded(most closed minded people i have ever met are liberals..interesting that?), and are the true constraints on liberty and freedom.
No time to slow the pressure but time to increase it…even in the teeth of the raging demonstrating liberals!!!! No fear, take the protest to them, show them we support what the Governor is doing!
As usual, the leftists are willing to push the envelope to get their way. A quick skim of the Wisconsin Constitution shows that its framers never envisioned such irresponsibility as the fearful 14 Dem Senators have shown. The Governor appears to be limited in his options, but should sure as heck test them all.
Dunno where the need for the 20th vote comes from. Looks like a simple majority rules. Also, the Gov can declare legislative offices vacant & call for special elections, which he should threaten to do.
His emergency powers are also limited to epidemics & invasion, but as C-in-C of the National Guard & State Police, and as he is responsible to assure the laws are enforced, he should be willing use them as a stick.
Times are dire & it’s getting hard to be optimistic.
Wisconsin law requires a quorum of 20 members before a budget vote can be taken. Presumably if the state patrol catches one of the Fleebaggers and handcuffs them to their Senate desk, that vote would then be 19-1.
Could be, however, I do not see it in the WI Constitution.
If the Dem minority will not observe the statutes of the state, why should the Governor or the Legislative Majority?
Whoops! Missed it. It is 60% for fiscal bills. Art VII, Sec 8.
Err, I’m wrong. It is 60% for Budget bills. Art VIII, sec 8.
“Obama has done us the great service of dramatizing the stark choice that faces us.”
Well said and now Scott Walker and the public employee unions have highlighted where and how the battle lines are to be drawn, about damn time someone did. I hope the “Fleebaggers” stay in Illinois for another week and the new coalition of “Democrats Against Democracy” keep at it even after their side looses the vote. This clash is already starting in Ohio and could soon spread even farther. With luck and God’s help this fight could be the beginning of the end for Manic Progressivism.
I doubt how much of a service “The Zero” has done us, but rather Governor Walker:
http://www.chequerboard.org/2011/02/everyone-should-have-seen-this-coming/
My advice to the Left: Keep digging that lovely hole you’re in.
Very eloquently stated, Roger.
I worked 20 years for a government entity that was unionized. I even tried my hand at being a shop steward to help people understand their relationship to the employer.
But, when I found out the union was not the philanthropic organization it advertised to be, I was their worst enemy. I felt used, abused, and ‘flim flammed’. I could then see their focus was on themselves and to hell with the employer, whomever it was.
Unions were founded on good principles. But, they have abused the good nature of the people and companies that have given them credence. They are causing a shortage of ‘good natured companies’, by their mercenary agenda.
Actually, no different than the race industry now proliferating, thanks to a racially biased president.
If this nation bends to these parasitic demands of these moochers, kiss your good life goodbye. The American dream will fade off into the sunset.
As an aside, it would help in this debate if challenged the phrase “union rights” with the more accurate “union privileges.”
The “rights” that unions demand are actually special laws that grant them powers that others citizens do not have. Those powers are the right to force people into an association with them. The right to disrupt another persons business and the right to exclude all economic competition. When even one of these special privileges is taken away, the union fails.
Right-to-Work laws are nothing but laws that state that no one can be forced to join a union and no union can prevent another person from working. Without these government granted privileges, the unions fade away.
Confucius stated that the first step of reasoned thinking and good governance both was naming things correctly and honestly. We need to start attacking the idea of union rights by naming them as the privileges they are.
My thought exactly, it is privilege. Particularly their exemption fromsocial security
Just the word “right” is a glaring example of newspeak.
When you hear a leftist talk about any kind “right”, grab your wallet with both hands.
The watershed in the most stark terms now playing-out will lead to either a realization of individual freedom, personal responsibilty and accountabilty or to a new type of dictatorship, “Union Dictatorship”.
Roger: You’re more right than you know. IMHO, Obama and the political-leftist ‘sharks’ of our country, have core constituencies of:
Govt workers and their subset of unionized ones, poor, uneducated ppl who want to get more from the govt than they ever expect to ‘give’ by paying taxes, liberal academia and their minions of fertile 18-yr old minds and their theoretical world, etc, etc, and of course illegal aliens who they want to get into the 2nd group.
The Dems want these groups to add up to 55% of the voters. Period And screw the private sector workers who make all the crap possible, because the Dems don’t care about private sector workers — they’re going to be marginalized as under 50% of the voters if the Democrats have their way. And it’s become awful damn close — we’re at a tipping point.
BTW, didn’t they just say that the TSA workers could unionize? Wonder what kind of pensions THEY get??
Its the history of the Kommiecrat party from the first “Democrat” president, Gen Jackson, who iniated the “spoils system” of govorment patronage, through FDRs 4 terms, JFKs excutive order for govorment unions, LBJ confiscating the social security funds and finally The Won.
It was the spoils system that started the taxpayer funded Kommiecrat loyalists. It was The Won who expanded it beyound logic & Funding.
But I say, thank God for OHbama…he gave us the Tea Party
Any one seen the Drug Prohibition Amendment? Anyone? Bueller?
No, but I know a red herring when I see one.
Take it somewhere else, please. It’s stinking up the thread.
Ah. I see we have a strict Constitutionalist among us. Excellent.
Now I get to expound on Federalism. ‘nuf said.
Fire the teachers who walked off the job. There are moms and dads who can’t pay their bills and would love to work-most of them have higher degrees.
http://potterwilliamsreport.com/2011/02/20/obamas-wisconsin-strategy-for-2012.aspx
Back in the day, when Margaret Thatcher took on the miner’s union in England, union thugs actually killed a few people before it was all over.
I wonder
a. Will that happen here?
b. If it does, will it be the fault of the tea party?
c. Will the MSM report it at all?
I was in USAF Communications Command, the command that took over air traffic control in the US during the PATCO strike. I don’t remember the PATCO strike being anything like this (massive protests, legislators fleeing town).
Holy Jeez, what a bunch of self-righteous back-patters.
How about somebody come up with a workable remedy for the situation.
I believe the current government of Wisconsin was elected to do just that.
The problem is that leftists have no interest in democratic remedies – when they don’t go their way.
Anyway, since the union thugs didn’t like the original democratic remedy, let me propose another: fire every striking teacher, make each such striker permanently ineligible for rehire, hire new teachers, and apply the original remedy as well.
@Alan. This really is very simple. The Fleebaggers will return; a vote will be taken in the Senate. The will of the People of Wisconsin will be done. Governor Walker is doing a GREAT job!
The workable remedy?
That would be to clear from the capitol, the CRIMINAL RIOT that has TAKEN BY FORCE the free election of THE PEOPLE, and illegally occupied THE PEOPLES HOUSE with their outrageous, unsustainable demands, and refuse to allow THE PEOPLES Representatives to VOTE.
Clear them out, just like ATTICA…
In five…four…three….
The first thing Communists regimes do is to destroy the middle class. With real unemployment approaching 20% and inflation in food and fuel prices about
to hit 10%, Mugabe Obama is well on his way to accomplishing that goal.
OfA is apparently contributing to teachers falsely calling in sick.
Is that breach of contract by the teachers?
Is it interfering in a contract by OfA?
Suppose parents in Madison decide to sue. Is OfA liable?
We are in the beginning stages of a New American Revolution. Americans are beginning to reacquaint themselves with our founding documents: The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Federalist Papers et al.
We are becoming involved with turning back the tide of left wing socialist, Progessive thought. We are a nation of Individuals and we are once again asserting our individual Sovereignty and the Sovereignty of the States.
The Socialist-Democrat Party is going to be in the minority for as long as we assert our Rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and govern according to original Constitutional Principles and the Rule of Law.
Hmm…”union rights” could be balanced by “corporate rights” – except they are already married to each other in an unholy “lawyers rights” tort-alliance, and the two together are dangerous to Individual rights. Unions are a corporatist entity that works to game the system to their own advantage, and not necessarily the advantage of their members either, but the advantage of the ladder-climbing parasites within the union-system,
Hmm, a workable solution….let me think.
Got it. We, the people, win. You, the crony public employee unions who hav corrupted the politics and driven states to the brink of bankruptcy, lose. As someone who pays, rather than a beneficiary of people who pay, that works for me.
While Egypt and most of the Middle-East is fighting for democracy and freedom, in Wisconsin – and soon in a state near you – the entrenched interests are fighting to thwart democracy and freedom.
This is the thesis of the eye-opening piece “Wisconsin – an Egypt or a Greece – Coming to Your State”. It concludes, rightly, that those fighting for their extra privileges in Wisconsin are more like the Greeks protesting against their loss of privileges as well – and we know how that is going. Kind of a revelation of things to come at http://www.robbingamerica.com
I do not understand why your tea party psychopaths are against teachers so much.
The private sector cannot do everything. Defense, police, fire safety, public transportation, education, and arguably healthcare are services that the government should provide for its citizens. Do we really want to go down the road where “only those who can afford get access to the fire department”? Or to quality education?
No. That would be ridiculous and you know it. We cannot have an America that is 90% burned down, crime-ridden, and illiterate.
These are public services and they should always remain public services. No matter if you have a problem with it or not.
But let me make one more argument that might get to you psychopaths. Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden actually want you guys to win this one. They want teachers to have their salaries and benefits cut, so that the good teachers move on to professions that pay more, while we get stuck with the horrible teachers who aren’t good for anything else. That a way, America can become dumb and 10 or 20 years down the road, they’ll be able to become stronger than us and kill us all with their superior missiles and bombs.
So if you mess with the teachers, the terrorists win. How are you so dumb not to realize this?
Hi Jennifer. Let me see if I can take a swing at it.
“The private sector cannot do everything”
Defense: agree
Police: pretty much agree, but there are obvious deficiencies, otherwise private security firms wouldn’t exist.
Fire Safety: Actually there are quite a few privately funded fire departments around, but by and large they are local and state government. None federal that I know of, except for federal properties.
Public Transportation? The vast majority of the public is transported in private vehicles. Federal government public transportation has been an utter failure, except where it has been in enabling private cars to get from point a to b.
Education? All the most highly powerful politicals send their kids to Private schools. Pretty much all the politicals attended private schools themselves. Federal interference in public education has been a long history of failure. The only serious complaint that public school proponents have against vouchers is that public schools will become even more of a cesspool once those who are smart enough to leave will.
Healthcare? we can’t afford it.
Only those who can afford quality education are getting it right now. Those who can’t are in the public schools.
Al Queda wants teacher’s salaries cut? No.
They want teacher’s throats cut.
We are already stuck with teachers who aren’t good for anything else, or even teaching, for that matter. America has become dumb 20 years down the road. It’s indisputable. Just look at how the SAT and ACT have to adjust scores upward every few years. They are already able to kill us with their inferior missiles and bombs.
If you mess with teachers, the terrorists win? The same teachers that have been telling our kids that our religion is evil, but we must bend over backwards to accomodate the terrorists’ religion? The same ones telling us to be sensitive, and that white=evil and christians want to kill everybody, while ignoring that the most radical religious extremists are islamic? I think the terrorists are doing quite well already, thanks to useful idiots.
Jennifer, who is a parasitic moocher, just demonstrated that once a society allows women to vote, that society ends exactly 100 years later.
If you disagree, check back with me on the state of America in 2019 (100 years after women got the right to vote).
When Jennifer says ‘psychopath’, it is projection. The notion that making teachers earn their pay supports Osama bin Laden is ludicrous. How come private school teachers are not the target of good people want to halt moochers like Jennifer?
I bet she also believes the dumb old lie that ‘women make just 77% of men for the same job’, when in reality women are paid MORE than men.
Jennifer, we already have the bad teachers courtesy of the unions. They’ve already turned out millions of terrorist sympathizers like yourself and the rest of the Copperhead Democrats. And psychopath is one of the better examples of projection I’ve seen.
We will not be slaves on the collective plantation, Copperhead.
Jennifer (troll), first off, stop calling names. . . .you instantly lose all credibility. No one is denying the need for teachers. . . . we (the WORKING folks) have been tightening our belts, and expect those who work for us- the public servants- to do the same.Your description of crime ridden , burnt down and illiterate sounds like Detroit, where your heroes (the dems) and the unions have been controlling (ruining) things for 30 years. . . . that is why they must be stopped in Madison, and everywhere else. I hope this isn’t too much for you to understand. Now go collect your check from lil georgie soros. . . .
Hi Jennifer,
The whole “you psychopaths” thing isn’t really an argument, and isn’t buying you anything.
As for the rest, I’ll give you police and defense, and pretty much end it there. Visit the older part of Philadelphia someday: You can still see the tags on the outside of the 18th century houses, marking the owner as having paid for fire protection. No pay, no protection. Of course, this was back before Americans started abdicating freedom *and* responsibility.
What we really see in Madison is the unions telling the students the unions will care for students when students pay union dues.
Thank you so much, Jennifer, for pointing out the absolute moral and intellectual vacuity (here, look it up if you’re not familiar with that word) of the pro-union arguments. I couldn’t have done it better myself.
@”jennifer”
well…, you lost me at “you psychopaths”. if all you have is name calling you’re not worth the bother of a rebuttal.
I spent three decades teaching science in Texas and was never a member of a union, Texas being a right to work state. I also contributed to both my health insurance and to my retirement. I’ve done quite well under this system. It seems to me that what the unions in Wisconsin want is not benefits, but rather forced contributions from people who have no choice about whether to join. It’s interesting that the dues for the AFL-CIO affiliated teacher’s organization here in Texas (the United Educator’s Association – UEA) are about three times that of any other teachers organization, for example ATPE, the Association of Texas Professional Educators. The reason is the amount that goes to political purposes; as far as I can tell exclusively Democratic causes. Not being a Democrat, I personally would find it intolerable for hundreds of my dollars to be going to causes I don’t support and in many cases vehemently oppose. I became a teacher after getting a degree in engineering because I found I liked working with kids. If the cost of that were supporting causes I oppose, I would never have become a teacher. For the 15-20% of teachers that choose to join UEA in this state, that’s fine, but don’t force me to join.
You are lucky to work in a ‘right to work’ state. Other states steal money from public employees by taking it out of their paychecks and sending it to the unions (who send it to the Dems) without their permission. This is theft and corruption.
For the Democrat members of the legislature to cross state lines from Wisconsin to Illinois in order to avoid prosecution for their dereliction of duty is contemptible, reprehensible, and despicable. It is reminiscent of the petulance exercised by the “boni” of Rome when they relocated the government to Greece in order to thwart Caesar, although unlikely to have the same lasting effects. One thing is certain: this is a one-time shot, they won’t be able to pull this kind of stunt again. And if they are in fact in violation of the law, and at the very least they have engaged in a conspiracy to engage in obstruction of justice activities against their state government, they have made it a Federal matter by crossing state lines.
Which brings me to the next point: By deploying his political operatives to actively engage in protests, and possibly rioting, and by openly making his own inflamatory statements in support of illegal activities, Obama is actively fomenting rebellion and insurrection to the detriment of one of the States; not only is that behavior unseemly for any occupant of the Oval Office, not only is it also contemptible, reprehensible, and despicable, but it is also impeachable, as fomenting rebellion, incitement, and advocacy of a wholesale disregard for the rule of law by the putative president rises to the definition of a high crime.
If Obama and his sorry excuse for an Attorney General continue to side with and contribute to the illegal activities occurring in Wisconsin, and fail to use the force of Federal law, Congress just might decide to weigh in with investigations as to the who, what, when, where, and why of these latest events. It would not be surprising to find evidence that the first mention of the Dems going awol came not from within their ranks, but from outside, somewhere between Chicago and D.C.
No doubt there would be some who would claim that these events are not important enough for immediate Congressional action, or that it is just a local states’ matter, but it ceased to be local when Illinois got involved, and it would seem that the events in Wisconsin are just the initial salvo in an overall attempt to undermine the “domestic tranquility” to which all states look to the Federal government to ensure, with union thugs and political operatives doing the Brown Shirt dirty work of the dictator-in-chief.
jennifer, that’s a great parody of the leftist mindset, buyt you forgot your /sarc tag.
jennifer,
I do not understand why your tea party psychopaths are against teachers so much.
That is because you have never earned an honest living.
You are probably dumb enough to also believe the lie that ‘women are just paid 77% of when men are paid’. In reality, women are paid more than men. That you don’t know this makes you unqualified to be near children.
Wow … great set of comments; esp liked #22 by Shannon Love:
And this as well:
Hello. Who is Anthony Schnell?
I saw him portrayed yesterday on “This Week…” as a concerned chemistry teacher. But when they followed him to the rally, he was leading the crowd. According to him, “This isn’t about the money. It’s not about the benefits. Of course, that’s going to hit us, and we don’t like that. But it’s really about having input in the classes, you know, having input with the school board, having input with what happens.”
Gosh that’s what this is all about? Input? What a laugh.
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-hillary-clinton/story?id=12959396
Well, going after power and control is the goal …
Something we all kind of go after in one form or another; going unchecked (after power and control) is the problem I think, and why reform is necessary from time to time.
.
America has several major societies in grave danger. Our economic conditions have built up such enormous unsustainable debts that it is impossible to pay them off. When this has occurred throughout history, the controlling power attempts to monetize the debt by printing paper currency. This works for a short time, but if continued, the value of the paper rots, a loaf of bread requires a wheel barrow of paper currency for purchase. It can break any nation; people starve. It often leads to a violent redistribution of wealth. We are witnessing it occur, again, throughout the nations of Islam. In each case, it is due to entrenched power, acting selfishly over a generation or more. It is occurring in a number of our states and the federal government. It is due to long term politicians who secured their power by knowingly making promises they knew were impossible to keep. In the good times, everybody looked the other way, but as Warren Buffet aptly says, “”It’s only when the tide goes out that you know who’s been swimming naked.”
It is now obvious that the Wisconsin union retirement plans were a naked fraud, and public employees are understandably furious. But their anger should not be against the present Governor, they should hate the long term liars who swindled them.
We have no respect for soldiers who run away from battle, no respect for financial types who blow town with the money, and no respect for employees who do not show up for work without good cause. But the greatest loathing should be for legislators who are purposely allowing Wisconsin to financially collapse by leaving their posts. Moreover, the federal government has four working days left before it shuts down, because Congress has not done its job to establish a viable annual budget, due last September.
Loathing is not a strong enough word.
For each day the teachers refuse to go back to work, reduce their pension benefits by 5 to 10%. They will get healthy fast.
Then when this has settled down, develop an entirely new compensation plan. Anybody who called in sick during the last few days can move to the new compensation plan or be replaced.
If Wisconsin did that, there wouldn’t be any more of these shananigans in any of the states. Even the states controlled by leftists would be too scared to do anything because they would know they will be voted out of office next cycle.
I think you’re giving the union membership waaaaay to much credit in recognizing any sort of fraud, and, the root does not seem to be that at all, rather, to quote George Will, we simply have “reactionary liberalism” on display … a tantrum thrown at responsible adults coming to grips with reality, and attempting some changes at a basic (employer-employee) level that removes much of the union control (think grievance procedures et al) from the workplace …
.
…. It is now obvious that the Wisconsin union retirement plans were a naked fraud, and public employees are understandably furious. But their anger should not be against the present Governor, they should hate the long term liars who swindled them.
…. I think you’re giving the union membership waaaaay to much credit in recognizing any sort of fraud ….
The Left’s modi operandi have always included any and every means to an end.
That the “Democratic” National Socialist Mobbed-up-Unionized Workers’ and other RICO-Racketeering Organized-Criminal Gangsters’ Party’s so-called “medical practitioners” re handing out whole books of pre-signed “medical certificates” to corrupt members of that branch of the “Democratic” National Socialist Mobbed-up-Unionized Workers’ and other RICO-Racketeering Organized-Criminal Gangsters’ Party comprised of the illegally-striking mobbed-up-”teachers’” union and that those so-called “teachers” are turning the phony certificates in, in order to be paid for their days on strike is not only naked fraud.
It opens passageways Right into the center of the black holes that do that lot for souls, exposes their “character” to view — and shows us what we’re up against as we fight this Second American War Of Independence.
“ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL, BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm
Speaking of animals. If anyone here has families here that live along the border states, I am sure they have given you the definition of Coyotes and Mules. As we watch Madison Wisconsin a new meaning comes for those words.
Coyotes are the protesters in the streets fighting for the right to use your children and grandchildren as money pack mules for their own future. So what will be the future of your families. These twenty-thirty-forty somethings union for life wannabes wil live off your children as far as the eye can see. Never met a union worker yet that actually earned their pay.
The choice between liberty and security is a false one. Liberty is security. The true kind. The victims of the police states certainly had neither.
…. What’s happening in Madison is the front in the battle for America ….
And not just for America. For if our beloved fraternal republic loses this and the very many other looming battles in this, the Second American War of Independence, our nation is lost. And, with it, the lingering remnants of the very Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization whose few remaining somewhat free Men enjoy whatever freedom that amounts to, only due to more than two centuries of America’s willing sacrifice of our blood and of Trillions of Dollars of our treasure to that freedom’s protection and defense.
And as goes Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization — so go the much vaunted “fortunes” of those other wannabe “powers,” (“China” and British-invented “India” etceteras) more than three billion of whose slaves, serfs and savants live as did their ancestors.
Three thousand years ago.
The People of Wisconsin are winning this argument vs the Unions and the Democrat Party because it’s rather easy to follow what’s happening in Wisconsin fiscally. Unions are in general a group of people who have been powerful enought to bargain for salaries and benifits well above what the market would dictate and shape policy so that they enjoy short careers before retiring to inflated salaries. For all the bluster over how they’re all about the middle class, following the money only reveals their unnatural amount of compensation comes from other middle class persons (and well as those workers in the lower class) in the form of higher taxes and more expensive products.
See coyotes and pack mules. You just used nicer language.
There is a kernel of truth in Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s claim of a “budget shortfall” of $137 million. But Walker, a Republican, failed to tell the state that less than two weeks into his term as governor, he, with his Republican majorities in the Wisconsin Legislature, pushed through $117 million in tax breaks for business allies of the GOP. There is your crisis.
Now tax CUTS have provoked a crisis. (tax cuts which, as the marxist identifies them, are designed go help business, and hence the Wisconsin economy.)
I’m telling ya, these people have no limits. Until they squeeze every last drop of money out of their victems, they can’t be satisfied.
Hmmm … this should have some interesting consequences:
Providence faces shortfall, teachers to get dismissal notices
http://newsblog.projo.com/2011/02/all-providence-teachers-to-rec.html
MORE – see link above