Ground Options
Stratfor has speculation on how a ground operation against Gaza might unfold. Since geography hasn’t changed much since Cast Lead, the major thrust line is probably going to be exactly the same: right along the Gaza/Egyptian border.
In the southern theater, Israeli units moved in and set up blocking positions near Rafah and Highway 4 in order to cut Hamas’ logistical supply lines running north toward Gaza City. … this served to isolate Gaza City.
But with Mubarak gone will Egypt cooperate this time? STRATFOR writes:
Egypt now has a very different government, which brings into question its willingness to support a ground operation. Cairo has already announced that the Rafah Crossing will remain open. This creates an even more serious imperative for Israeli units to cut the supply lines in the south of the Gaza Strip to Gaza City. Israeli ground forces may need to physically occupy the Egypt-Gaza border.
March to the Sea
Where it gets interesting is if Israel omits the other half of Cast Lead — the component involving going into the densely populated area to root out Hamas rocket sites and infrastructure. If it simply thrusts up along the corridor and engineers essentially excavate a deep ditch to destroy the thousands of tunnels then even when it withdrew the Hamas supply line would take a longtime to reconstruct.
Above-ground supplies can still be passed through — after being inspected for military supplies — so Egypt can still claim the crossing is open. And Israel moving on a narrow front can plausibly say that Gaza itself has not been invaded; and that the Israelis are simply going to enforce the provisions against military supplies being shipped in.
This also makes it possible to “find” Iranian made supplies and reframe the operation as an anti-Iranian measure, something that has considerable appeal in the region. Thus, a combination of non-invasive blockade and political warfare can probably offset Hamas’ talking points to a great degree. It will also give Obama his most treasured opportunity: the ability to have it both ways.
Netanyahu could continue the negotiations for a ceasefire from a genuine position of strength and at all events even if he withdraws in a as little as a month Hamas will face the ruin of its existing tunnel network. In fact, Israel could largely offset the political impact of an operation along the strip by arranging for all kinds of civilian goodies to be shipped in over the corridor, gratis even. That would not only ruin the smugglers (many of whom are Palestinian politicians) but also make it hard for anyone to get really upset.
[removed]
Update:
‘Experts’ suggest that the Arab world won’t support Hamas as much as Hamas thought it would. They should have read the post “The Last Man Standing” instead of the western media.
If Hamas thought provoking an Israeli crackdown by raining rockets down on the Jewish state would rally Arab nations to its side, it may have miscalculated badly, experts told FoxNews.com.
The Gaza-based terror group began a barrage of rockets on southern Israel on Nov. 10, which brought a swift reaction from Israel. Israeli air strikes have taken out several Hamas leaders and launch sites, and its military is now poised to rumble into the territory with tanks and soldiers, just as it did four years ago – with equally one-sided results.
As for Hamas’ regional allies, including Egypt, the signs of solidarity have been strictly rhetorical. If Hamas’ campaign was aimed at dragging regional allies into a widening conflict, many experts are skeptical that it will succeed.
Maybe the bloom is off the Palestinian rose. People in the West like social democracy and Hope and Change so much that Drudge says millions want to ‘opt out’ of Christmas. Jordan is rioting for gas. Egypt is running out of food. Syria is in civil war. Lebanon is on the edge of civil war. And all Hamas can think of doing is firing their frigging Fajr-5 rockets at Israel and hoping the rest of the region and the western left rides to its rescue?
Good timing Hamas. Like everyone needed that.
Yes, the way the unions were looking to show their resolve by closing the Hostess company and destroying 18,000 jobs. They think the world is ‘about them’ and centered around them. Then one day things just pass you by.
If Israel doesn’t get into a house to house battle for Gaza then not even the mainstream media can convincingly depict them as monsters. Netanyahu if he were careful could win a limited victory over them, so long as he knows not to go too far. Hamas is vulnerable because the Arab world has imploded; even Obama in his actual strength has imploded. The world is no longer what it was.
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Four More Top Terrorists Eliminated
IDF planes on Monday targeted and eliminated another four senior Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists.
By David Lev
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162258#.UKrdxoYQP_Y
http://abcnews.go.com/International/israeli-airstrike-kills-top-islamic-jihad-commander/story?id=17758320#.UKrdOIYQNn8
I never have been able to fathom how the Hamas/Hezbollah/Fatah etc think they are going to be able to do anything other than irriatate the Isrealis into going in and stomping them flat as a cheap persian rug. They tried war 48, invasion 67, invasion 73, so on and so forth ad infinitum. It just seems that the mismash of refugees have been used/goaded into serving as the tarbaby of the greater Islamic world. (And no that ain’t racist.) These poor screwed over people have been put up as a punching bag to prove that Isreal is an evil agressor. The Arabs know that can’t beat Isreal on the battle field so they try to do it in the press, and the United Nations. (Now that is an oxymoron if there ever was one.) When will the world wise up that this is a setup.
The Isrealis are taking out the Hamas leadership which they seem to think will stop the rockets. Frankly I think they should go up the command change a few steps and start hitting those who are hiding in the shadows. They showed they could do it to Black September, why not some of the Muslim Brotherhood leaders.
” Maybe Israel can buy up the entire remaining stock of Hostess Twinkie Pies, Ho Hos and Devil Dogs and just give it away. Ho Ho Ho Ho. Happy Holidays. I wonder what Anderson Cooper would do with that footage?”
100+ innocent Palestinians murdered
3 innocent Israelis murdered
Millions of Israelis and Palestinians living in fear
“Ho Ho Ho Ho”-very funny for some it seems-not for innocent Israelis and Palestinians
BTW Stratfor has lost all credibility since the hack showed what what it really was-Stratfor now has less credibility than DEBKA
But who cares ” Ho Ho Ho Ho. Happy Holidays”-revolting
Fernandez-you were better than this
You have lost it-and that is a real shame and a real loss
the loss of moral property
@ Victor:
100 “Palestinians” dead due to the idiocy of their “leaders”.
3 Israelis dead due to the idiocy of the “Palestinian” “leaders”.
You catching my drift here boy?
[/Foghorn Leghorn}
“Innocent Palestinian” – is there such a thing? If you were a Palestinian of any moral character wouldn’t you have left Gaza long ago?
I’m all for the possibility of allowing anyone remotely ‘innocent” to leave before flattening the place, but at this juncture in this ongoing war of 64 years, one needs to consider anyone remaining in Gaza as an enemy combatant. It is only fair, – that is how the Palestinians obviously view the Israelis.
Victor – since you know so much – “100 innocent Palestinians murdered” – how many Paletinians who deserved to die met their fate?
Or, are all Palestinians innocent?
I enlarged the image you posted above and it reminded me of what our neighbors to the south say about these United States.
“You gringos took all of the land that had highways.”
@ Evil Cheese #2. They do it for the money! They export pity and import donations. They goad the Israelis into attacking, the Israelis attack, the Israelis wreck things, the Israelis withdraw, and then donations from around the world pour into “Palestine”. Wash, rinse, repeat. @ #3: And that, Victor, is why the gallows humor. The Palis martyr a few for a few bucks; it’s part of doing business. They know it, we know it, the Israelis know it. What are we to do, weep?
wretchard, I like your plan. Still, it is about ten miles of border. Looks flat, but not so flat they could just easily dig a canal from the sea. So they’d have to pump water in ten miles and flow it down a canal, probably just a few hundred vertical feet. Might actually be very nice and scenic, extending it all the way to Aqaba might not be the worst idea in the world! Anyway I suppose they could dig tunnels even through the mud, though at much greater labor.
c @ 1, their targeted assassinations are a political statement, too, not much more than that. I still say they should use much larger bombs when they carry these out – though I think that house they flattened, was from something a lot larger than your average hellfire. Good on them.
Too bad they can’t precede every bombing with a super-loud audio call along the lines of, “Those of you who love death – look up now!”
I’m sorry, but I can just not think of a culture or group less deserving of sympathy than these Palestinians. They ask for it, then cry when they get it. They will not take yes for an answer. They abuse their own children, teaching them absurd and vicious lies. For a generation if not ten peace has been theirs for the taking, and they will not take it. I don’t doubt they could be taught a lesson, but nobody will teach it to them. OK, on that basis I *do* have some small sympathy for them, nobody will even take them seriously enough to teach them. Such a fate.
Speaking of which, what is a “Palestinian”, anyway?
Langley @7. I noticed the same thing. Flying above the U.S. – Mexico border is the same kind of study in contrasts.
to victor the shmuk -
Israeli Victim Was 25-Year-Old Pregnant Woman About to Attend Memorial Service for Friends Killed in 2008 Terror Attack
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/israeli-victim-was-25-year-old-pregnant-woman-about-to-attend-memorial-service-for-friends-killed-in-2008-terror-attack/
At Least 100 Dead in India Terror Attacks
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/27/world/asia/27mumbai.html?pagewanted=all
to equate the victims of terrorism with the ‘accidental’ enablers of terrorism is truly evil – but I expect no better from you!
thanks GWB – the religion of peas
I recall something a resident of Gaza said when the Wall between Israel and Gaza was built.
“This is terrible! I have to go around to the gate in that wall to go to work, to go shopping, or even to go to a hospital.”
Okay, so he has to go into Israel to have a job, buy things he needs, or get medical care. Other than that, Israel is just a big pain to him.
What would he do if that hated country wasn’t there at all?
*shrug* I think Israel should cut off their water and their electricity for starters.
Victor, I agree that handing out Ho Hos sounds like poor taste, but it isn’t a bad idea objectively. The idea of shipping in goods instead of bombs and avoiding combat in the actual Gaza strip is damned good memetic warfare and an idea which I would gladly own up to.
In case you think I want to conceal anything, let me actually say it again: Israel should bring in goods and distribute them. Make a parody of the bloodthirsty Jew image and see what Anderson Cooper does with that.
I am sorry you object to that and find it revolting. I think what really riles you up is that such a tactic doesn’t play to certain narratives. Any more than the fact that electricity piped in from Ashkelon suits it.
Gaza is above all a play designed to make the Jew look like Shylock, isn’t it Victor? And the idea of them shipping in unlimited quantities of Hostess Twinkie pies disgusts you probably because they might actually do it. Thus you never found it offensive to talk of bombs or bullets, but only of the possibility that IDF might do something other than what you thought they should do.
Others have suggested on this or other sites that artillery be fired 10 for 1 on the rocket sites. That the houses be bulldozed flat. That the Gazans be expelled. I never advocated any of that. But I did advocate minimizing casualties and avoiding combat and allowing in supplies as a propaganda counter to Hamas. And you found that disgusting. “You are better than that”, says you.
Thank you for explaining who you are.
15 W – talking about how ‘mistreated’ the Gazans are by Israel
Israel’s hospitals continue to treat Gazan patients
http://www.jpost.com/LandedPages/PrintArticle.aspx?id=292503
I don’t hate the arabs, I just wish that they didn’t want to try to kill me or mine -
that includes Americans of all stripes.
When us the last time anyone read of a Muslim protecting a Jew in modern post WW2 times?
The occurrences are mighty rare.
But Israel and in the US there are many Jewish organizations and private foundations and individuals that everyone, regardless of color or creed.
I’m just tired of the whining by Muslims.
in regards to Victor-
he will make some thoughtful comments from time to time – but if he is not a an out in out antisemite,
I don’t know one when I read him.
He claims to be a christian supporter of an Islamist Turkey.
I can’t square that circle, sorry, maybe someone can explain it to me.
Sinai, at least so far, is still demilitarized. The Multi Force observers remain in Sinai as an American-NATO trip wire, and Egypt only has limited troops guarding the border. They Egyptians will allow Palestinian operatives go cross unheeded back and forth across the border through tunnels, but they cannot seriously threaten an Israeli offensive in Gaza without completely trashing Camp David. If they raced over the canal, it still takes about four hours (driving at about 60+ mph) to get to the border with ground troops. I suppose the Egyptians could try their F-16s at Abu Shweria Air Base (Ismailia) against Israeli fighters. Good luck with that. I am pretty sure the IDF is prepared for that contingency.
Palestinians: A people who have for 70 years managed to bat 1.000 when it comes to making the wrong geopolitical choices.
#3 viktor, its “Mr. Fernandez” to you.
#9 Josh, I like your idea of flooding the tunnel zone trench with sea water. Isn’t that what more or less the Romans did with the carthaginians after their third attack on Rome? Salted their earth. It would flood, collapse and penetrate to most all tunnels and would take a while to dry out, and would make re-tunneling difficult. Tracer compounds could be put in the water, to mark later digs, diggers, and tunnel-goers for easy identification.
A flotilla of “Twinkies for terrorists” from Tel Aviv – a marvelous meme.
Richard Fernandez
Thanks for your response
I am an American Christian-Catholic-one of the 2%-I do not have a dog in the fight.
You must be aware of how Christian Filipino women are treated in Israel-they are treated as slaves and sex slaves-worse than they are in KSA.
Christians in Israel are treated as second class citizens
The Gaza ” play” serves the interests of both the fascist wing of the Israeli regime and the fascist wing of Hamas.
Israeli fascists treat Christians badly as do Hamas fascists-you know that.
The Israeli fascists want a land from the Jordan River to the Med Sea-they want to annihilate Palestine -you know that.
Most Israelis want to live in peace with peaceful Palestinians within 1967 borders.
The fascist wing of Hamas want to annihilate Israel-you know that
The majority of Hamas is apparently a medical/social service effort-that is why they are so popular-you know that.
Richard Fernandez-in the past your blog was intellectual, poetic, moral and informed with an enlightened Christian moral philosophy
Recently you joke about the murder of innocents-shameful and revolting
-I hope they pay you well-30 pieces of silver-at least.
What is really sad is that you have sold away your moral property for a pittance-in the larger picture of things.
You had built that that moral property over many,many years-now it is gone-a shame indeed.
Fascism-Chinese, Israeli, Muslim etc is a real issue these days
But you do not address it.
Why not?
I dunno. Built-up areas suck up armies. There are tactical tunnels in the area, as well as the longer smuggling tunnels. Be tough to think you’ve actually got someplace when the terrs can pop up behind you.
Still, there are tunnel detectors, I imagine, and penetrating demolitions and maybe nitrous oxide.
I like W’s plan but have two practical objections:
1. In Rafah (the city) many civilian houses are built very close to the border. Tunnels are usually started within a civilian home. To destroy the tunnels would indeed require some intense urban combat to clear the local hamasniks. While that would be over quickly, getting at the tunnels would require the destruction of civilian homes (though per jus in bello this would be legal as the homes have been made part of the war supply system). With the media in the area this would become politically very expensive. Think countless interviews with crying arab kids after the IDF bulldozed their house, and no mention of the tunnel under said house.
2. Operating along the border would expose IDF to attack from Egyptian troops, many of whom are in or friendly to the muslim brotherhood (just like the new Egyptian gov). Or the Egyptians could look the other way when terrorist groups approach the border. So IDF would be in a narrow strip between two hostile forces, while a third hostile force (the media) tries to prevent the destruction of the tunnels.
Most of the population is in the south (near Rafah) and north (Gaza city), so another option is to go down the middle where there are less civilians and cut the strip in half. Most of the Israeli “settlements” in Gaza were in this area, since it is quite strategic. This move would prevent missiles coming from Rafah to Gaza city for fire, but I’m sure Hamas would start firing from Rafah or from Egypt if they had to.
No great options here.
You have not changed one iota since you first came here, Victor. When was that again?
re 20. Victor
Actually, years ago you were exposed on Michael Totten’s blog as being Turkish.
I don’t care what religion or citizenship you claim, but your own words make your agenda crystal clear.
You post lies and antisemitic slander. Have you been to Israel and KSA to compare their treatment of guest workers? It’s light years apart.
Most Israelis want to retreat to 67? That’s a lie.
Hamas is primarily a medical/social service? Lie.
You lie about Israel, you lie about Hamas, and you slander Jews. And you act offended and defensive to attack our host. I don’t care what you want to call yourself, we all see through you.
You must be aware of how Christian Filipino women are treated in Israel-they are treated as slaves and sex slaves-worse than they are in KSA.
That is complete baloney. And all you have to do to confirm that is do a Google search on the subject. At this very moment about 120 Filipinos are being kept back in Gaza by Hamas. They want to leave for Israel or Jordan. And to get them out, the Philippines may issue Filipino travel documents to anyone the Filipinos may have married.
What planet do you live on?
There’s a site run by a left wing organization called Migrante, which documents the abuses of Filipino overseas workers. Go down their posts one by one. Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia. People robbed in KSA, people executed in KSA, people jailed in KSA. Why don’t you go down the list Victor? Do you think Michael Totten wrote that stuff? Here’s one incident at random.
Just go through them randomly. Here’s another.
Read every one of those posts in fact to appreciate just how a big a liar you are.
Well Victor – thanks for identifying yourself,
indeed an antisemite, you make ad hominem attacks, no links.
Claiming that you don’t have a ‘dog in the fight’, you talk about
the Israeli ‘regime’ -
W, maybe time to ban a hater – who preaches dissent under a false flag?
How do others feel – if Whiskey could be asked to leave, why may
Victor stay?
What does he bring to the conversation, other than repetition of his talking points and aggravation?
His lies about good people, unfortunately, will live on in ether space.
Victor – go back to hole you slithered out of!
re 17 EBL
Sinai is only partially demilitarized, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_and_Observers#Sinai_Peacekeeping_Zones
The mech. infantry force includes armored APCs and helos.
The Egyptians have been using tanks in Sinai recently as well:
“The Armed Forces, backed by about 50 tanks and armored vehicles, have regained control on the area surrounding a Multinational Force and Observers camp in North Sinai, German news agency DPA reported Saturday. Egyptian forces were deployed in the area of Jura, east of Arish, after gunmen stormed the camp Friday”
http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/update-army-restores-calm-multinational-force-camp-sinai
I still worry more about the Egyptians letting terrorists and missiles through to attack Israel than doing the deed themselves. However, their government seems to be going more and more towards the muslim brotherhood. Who knows where it will end.
Egypt does have a very capable military – after 73 they kicked out the soviets and got US equipment and advisers. They have US designed Egyptian built M60 tanks, and the same US built aircraft Israel has (minus the Israeli upgrades).
Things keep getting more like they’ve always been than they ever were.
You could make certain arguments about the Jews and Arabs in the area when Israel was founded in 1948 (or thirty or a hundred years earlier). You would make other arguments up through 1967. Then again after 1974. Etc. Conditions change. Events occur. Blood is spilled.
I’ve never understood the Israeli attitudes towards the Palestinians. Frankly the Palestinian attitudes towards the Israelis seem much clearer.
The thing is, there’s no going back. They all have to go forward. And it looks like twenty miles of bad road and no GPS.
–
a @ 27: They have US designed Egyptian built M60 tanks
I thought I read they have M1s that were even cooperatively built in Egypt.
@ 20 & @ 30
The real question is “Why the increase in intensity now?”
Israel is a destination country for men and women trafficked for forced labor and commercial sexual exploitation.
Low-skilled workers from China, Romania, Africa, Turkey, Thailand, the Philippines, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and India migrate voluntarily for contract labor in the construction, agriculture, and health care industries.
Some, however, subsequently face conditions of forced labor, such as unlawful withholding of passports, restrictions on movement, non-payment of wages, threats, and physical intimidation.
Many labor recruitment agencies in source countries and in Israel require workers to pay recruitment fees ranging from $1,000 to $10,000—a practice that makes workers highly vulnerable to trafficking once in Israel, and in some cases, situations of debt bondage.
Israel is also a destination country for women trafficked from Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Uzbekistan, Belarus, China, South Korea and possibly the Philippines for the purpose of sexual exploitation.
In addition, NGOs note an increase in the internal trafficking of Israeli women for commercial sexual exploitation, and report new instances of trafficking of Israeli women abroad to Canada, Ireland, and England.
African asylum seekers entering Israel illegally are also vulnerable to trafficking for forced labor or prostitution.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Israel
The sexual abuse is proven
The real question is why did wretchard sell out?
Only he knows
The IDF plans to install a new underground system on the Philadelphi Road in Rafah which parallels the Gaza border with Egypt in order to detect tunneling activity. The system, called “Strong Number,” will allow early detection of tunnels by means of sensors and oil exploration devices. To prevent sabotage of the installed technology, IDF will have to first occupy, then permanently station troops in Rafah to control the southern Gaza border. The Egyptian troops can no longer be trusted and, of course, the blue-helmeted UN troops in the Sinai are all sissies.
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=4913
I find it odd that the propagandist is stepping out so boldly, perhaps to the point of burning himself. Usually he tries to keep a veneer of plausible deniability. Never seen him provoke Richard so openly before. Makes we wonder what that signals…
@32 – the snake is just trying to use reverse psychology to let W keep him here, in all fairness – of course.
after all, to prevent him from spewing his venom, would be a crime against ‘humanity’.
How else can he scream baby killer?
(or Christ-killer?)
Especially, against the baby protectors?
Victor, we got your point about 1000 posts ago. The fact that no one at this thoughtful blog site seems to openly support your positions might tell you something if you have the humility to absorb that message. Or maybe you’re just that much more informed and aware than the rest of us combined. I might suggest that you cool off for 24 hrs and go think about that. Or not; your choice and your life.
Meanwhile, I want to express my appreciation for the wonderful work that our host regularly does for those of us who follow his work. I wish that I could be as eloquent and thoughtful as he even just on occasion.
Well, Victor, I am an American Catholic and I don’t know you, man. I have NO idea where you’re coming from execpt that whatever it is, Israel is to blame. You are way outside my experience of American Catholics in the main. I thought you were Turkish, didn’t you say that here?
Well, to the matter at hand: Israel. What I like about Israel is that they carved out a New Jerusalem among the modern world and have set about it. Israel is worth emulation, not destruction. Frankly I wish there were such a Catholic enclave. Such a thing is impossible in any given country, even the United States. Oh sure, we’ve got Catholic communities such as the Ave Maria community down in Florida. But such things are doomed to be gentrified rather quickly and fade back to the norm. It is not allowable to say, have a town where only Catholics are allowed. This is a violation of law. And it’s not permissible to even have a town where only Catholics are encouraged. Sandra Fluke chose Georgetown University PRECISELY because it was even nominally Catholic, but still that was enough to inspire infiltration and subversion. As a point of honor and leftist creds! She PAID to do it.
Gotta hand it to the Left. Their name is indeed “Legion”, and they have ranks itching, itching, itching for the fight.
Victor wrote:
“But who cares ” Ho Ho Ho Ho. Happy Holidays”-revolting.”
The Ding-Dong has spoken.
IAF Airstrikes Hit Bank, Senior Hamas Terrorist
IAF aircraft strike the branch of the National Islamic Bank, as well as the home of senior Hamas terrorist Raed Al-Attar.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162282#.UKsSm4YQP_Z
By Elad Benari
First Publish: 11/20/2012, 5:49 AM
IAF aircraft struck the branch of the National Islamic Bank in Gaza on Monday night, the Al Jazeera network reported.
According to the report, four people were wounded in the airstrike, part of the IDF’s Operation Pillar of Defense.
Hamas reportedly uses the bank, which opened in the area in 2009, to pay its terrorists’ salaries.
Palestinian Authority-based sources also said that the IAF also struck the Rafiah home of Hamas terrorist Raed Al-Attar overnight Monday. Al-Attar’s name was mentioned in recent days as the successor to Hamas arch-terrorist Ahmed Jaabari, whose targeted killing began the operation last Wednesday.
It was not reported whether Al-Attar was at home at the time of the attack or whether he was hit.
Revealed, secret images of the election of a new Hamas leader.
As a rhetorical device wretchard could argue that Victor helps prove a point. Give the dysfunctional time and rope and keep the flow of decent charitable tolerance going and soon enough the bad guy destroys himself. Does Netanyahu have the same luxury of time and space in dealing with his problems?
The real out of the box response from Israel to the provocations of Hamas would be to fake left towards Gaza while striking hard to the right at Iran. If you believe that Iran is pulling the strings in Syria and encouraging Hamas to draw Israel in and bog them down, to buy time for Hezbollah and Assad and the IRGC, then the solution is not to the South and West but to the North and East. If Iran is cracked then how serious are the threats from the other players? If we see a thumb sucker about the enmity between the Sunni Hamas and Shi’a Hezbollah then that would be a signal that I am right and the propagandists are attempting to head off a strike.
How well are the Arab nations equipped with conventional weapons these days. Not very well in comparison to twenty years ago. They have to pay up front for a limited supply of second rate Russian stuff that the Israelis probably already have counters for.
I think Egypt would have trouble keeping what mechanized forces it has in fuel if it had to move out into the Sinai and Gaza. No way can the Arabs command the air space. Also Hamas can’t fart in Gaza with out somebody informing on them. They’ve made to many enemies there. I can see the current government of Egypt trying ye olde Iranian mass attack on foot like they tried against Iraq. Of course that could just be a means to reduce the number of mouths Egypt has to feed. They’d probably never get to Gaza.
Over the last few threads, and the events of the last few days, I have gotten the impression that Victor is getting shriller and perhaps more desperate. As if the situation is changing faster than he is getting instructions from a controller. There may be some confusion as to the line to be followed. Or a need to sow discord.
In reference to #26 impeach 0bama‘s comment, there is a certain point there. I did not catch whatever it was specifically that triggered Whiskey’s removal, but in general while I did not ALWAYS agree with him, and while I note his lack of PC credentials; from what I saw Whiskey was not nearly as offensive as Victor to us or to our gracious host. This is Wretchard’s House and we are guests. The decision is, of course, Wretchard’s. There are pro’s and con’s. The main pro is that it will be more civil. There is the con that we would have to identify and put up with his replacement(s).
Subotai Bahadur
Saudi Arabia, 70% of Filipino domestic workers suffer physical and psychological violence.
To appreciate what the 70% number represents, realize there are than a million Filipina domestic workers there.
InterAksyon.com, citing information from Philippine Overseas Workers Administration (POEA) chief Hans Cacdac, reports
“Saudi Arabia has the most recruitment violation cases pertaining to domestic helpers.” This was revealed in last week’s Senate committee hearing on International Labour Organization (ILO) Convention 189 on Decent Work for Domestic Workers. According to the ILO website, ILO is “the UN specialized agency which seeks the promotion of social justice and internationally recognized human and labor rights.”
The InterAksyon.com report quoted Cacdac, who revealed that “from 2011 to the first quarter of this year, Saudi Arabia has 633 recruitment violations cases followed by United Arab Emirates (UAE) with 227 cases, Taiwan with 206 cases, and Qatar with 164 cases.”
Many left wing groups in the Philippines are actually demanding a ban on allowing Filipina domestics to work in the Kingdom. They claim that economic need notwithstanding, it is isn’t worth the grief those poor women often have to put up with. The maltreatment of Filipina domestic workers in the KSA is proverbial.
It is truly one of the great scandals of the age. Amnesty International writes:
One day, when Hollywood gets over its self-hatred, it will discover the uncovered story of the last 20 years. The scandalous maltreatment of third world workers in the oil-rich Middle East. Indonesians, Bangladeshis, Thais and above all Filipinas have been treated like garbage. They are disposable humans.
There’s an underground church of millions in Saudi Arabia. Catholic priests actually train to go underground among the workers and impersonate laborers in order to carry out their duties. This is in the 21st century. Why does nobody talk about it? Because Gulf money buys silence, even in first world journalism.
The jeering, accusatory tone of Victor for failing to accept ludicrous assertions that are wholly at variance with the known facts is something he may want to remember on day when this scandal finally finds it’s legs. It’s really interesting to see how President Obama will stand with whoever when the political winds blow ill, but nobody even notices a tragedy that may one day be the new slave story of the 21st century.
By contrast, here’s a video by Filipinos of Filipinos in Israel. There’s nothing furtive about their existence. Parenthetically, it’s interesting to observe how the Filipino almost atavistically returns to his religious roots and actually starts speaking English as a kind of psychologically rally point when living in a foreign country. When you can no longer hear Tagalog, English sounds like home. And the familiarity of the Roman rite, the sounds of “Heart of Jesus” even when played in an Indonesian church serve to reassure in strange places.
I’m not up for banning people. I miss Whiskey, and also his enemy, LOTM. Both went poof after the Whiskey kick. I’m down with inviting them both back.
My wife is Indonesian. Indonesians suffer the same problems Wretchard is mentioning with regard to Filipinos working in the Kingdom. Famously, we had that scene in Florida after 9/11 where a Saudi Princess abused her Indonesian domestic (it got VERY weird and gross).
That Saudi princess got off easy. Of course. Some of the charges bordered on insane (like the biting off of nipples). The Indonesian community’s response was, “Yeah, this happens”.
The lesson to me was that if you’ve got a powerful captor, then you’re powerfully kept, no matter where you are.
@ 25 Wretchard
Ha! Similar to the left’s uneasiness at the “unfair” effectiveness of the Iron Dome, you are using the weapons of Facts and Truth against victor, and he clearly cannot defend against weapons like that.
—————————————-
I find myself in a nostalgic mood, and found these posts & maps providing interesting insights. Somewhat related to current events, and somewhat not, but fascinating all the same:
http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/07/israel-begins-ground-campaign.html
http://fallbackbelmont.blogspot.com/2006/07/knife-thrower-at-carnival.html
I can’t say as I pay that much attention to Victor. Victor, to the extent I note, seems to alternate between gratuitous reinforcement of opinions already expressed or to plunge into wild projections, perhaps fantasies, of this or that national power.
As such, Victor represents a window into another ‘reality.’
Many’s the time I’d confuse his positions with those of Central, for I swear, Victor is a conduit of dis-information and agitprop.
If I need such, all I have to do is click over to the Huffpoo.
===========
W
I would not recommend sealing off the escape route for Hamas.
Strategically, I would recommend salami tactics against the most proximate territory to Tel Aviv.
Near as I can tell, the overwhelming source of harassment rocketry is from this zone.
By driving Hamas back, you force them to abandon their cheapest missiles — which no longer have the range.
This would have prompt effects for Ashkelon.
And, diplomatically, Israel should declare for the record that further bombardments must and will be met by moving the border permanently away from Tel Aviv.
The loss of turf/ dunes is the ONLY kind of sanction that, IMHO, would effect islamist behavior.
I don’t think that cutting off the tunnel route would stop creative rocketry. In particular, super cheap rockets would still be able to harass too many Israelis.
==========
Tehran appears willing to fight to the last Sunni Arab. In which case, Arab populations in and around Israel would seem to confer no human shield effect, whatsoever.
This should affect the nuclear calculus vis a vis Tehran.
Like Adolf and Tojo, the mullahs are ‘first movers’ — anti status quo players. Yet, their style is always to use others as dupes/ bullet stoppers.
So, I’d say, that in the fullness of time, it will become recognized that Iran has already begun / ramped up stealth warfare, and the time for diplomacy is as far gone as 9-04-1939.
The emboldening feared when Iran might have the atomic bomb — has already begun.
And our strategic response has been to re-select the Poltroon in Chief.
Benghazigate exists to hide from the public that Iran is making hot war upon America. (Via Salafist cut-outs — in exactly the same manner as discovered in Afghanistan and Iraq.)
Such guile is to be expected from the land of assassins.
BTW, at this point in their efforts, the Iranian program should’ve leaked atomic technology all over the MENA. We live in the era of the pen drive. (!)
It’s a big step down the road to the Three Conjectures.
@7 and @11
The map is of poor quality, try this one from google.
Google Maps Gaza
Re: Victor
The greater the response to victor’s posts, the more this venue suffers. Wretchard, I think, will use this criterion in his deliberations. Personally, I find that victor’s posts keeps my judgment of my fellow mankind more honest than it would be otherwise. This is just one of the weaknesses of an optimist.
If someone insists on lobbying “high-hanging curve balls” so be it. Maybe when enough leave the park, things will change.
I’m so disgusted, I quadrupled my monthly subscription amount.
W – as said by other posters, we are your guests.
I absolutely have no right to ask or demand banning of anyone.
AS a child of an Auschwitz survivor.
I can’t bear the antisemitism and lies displayed by Victor.
Your insights and writings are far beyond my limited capabilities.
I know that this blog is read by many people and to know that Victor garbage may get any credence at all is a tragedy.
I can’t always call Victor out on lies and it is very wearing for this 65 year old.
You must decide how you wish to handle this issue.
Humbly, Yours
F47
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. Mark Twain
Deleted
I recall the discussion of the Arab Israeli 6 day war that I had with two seatmates in a four holer during my second tour in Viet Nam in the fall of 1967. We concluded that our problem was related to Gen. Westmorland’s policy of ‘Search and Destroy’ where we would expend our lives and then abandon our gains.
We were Marines, of course, and much preferred Gen. Walt’s policy of ‘Hearts and Minds’ where we would move into an area and then stay there, realizing the benefits of our efforts. Viet Nam had a different dynamic though, as one old Vietnamese man explained it to me in his halting, broken English, ‘During the day, the South, they come, they tax. During the night, the North, they come, they tax. Only one.”
I’ve commiserated with that man the rest of my life.
Wow. That satellite photo says it all, doesn’t it? The moslem half is wild and barren; the Jewish half is orderly, fertile, and prosperous.
A lot like the North Korea/South Korea nighttime photos.
Mark Levin was on fire today about the EneMedia’s ugly coverage making it look like the Israelis are just blowing up the poor little victimized Arabs for No Reason Atall.
Wretchard, I’m afraid the EneMedia HAVE portrayed the Israelis as monsters. Here in NYC, they’re simply showing the bomb sites in the Arab territory, with wailing and ululating muslimas, with angry voiceovers about all the “massive bombing” the nasty Jooos are doing to the poor, helpless “Palestinians,” all without any mention of the relentless rocket attacks by the terrorists.
If you only watched See-BS, you would never know there was a reason for the Israelis to fight Back, nor would you have any idea that half the population of Israel has been cowering in air raid shelters. Naw, it’s all those mean ole Israelis who keep targeting helpless moslem kiddies.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
W one final word and I will drop the subject
-from Deuteronomy Chapter 16 דְּבָרִים
כ צֶדֶק צֶדֶק, תִּרְדֹּף–לְמַעַן תִּחְיֶה וְיָרַשְׁתָּ אֶת-הָאָרֶץ, אֲשֶׁר-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ נֹתֵן לָךְ. {ס} 20 Justice, justice shalt thou follow, that thou mayest live, and inherit the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. {S}
The problem, dear Victor, is that dear Hamas dearly wants to destroy Israel.
And plans to. (This is true of the PA as well, lest anyone get the wrong idea
about the PA; but the problem—at the moment—is Hamas.)
And if Hamas proves unable to destroy Israel (though they deserve the highest marks for trying), then they dearly would like for Israel to kill as many Gazans as possible (for given the current perverted state of ethics and morality around the world, they don’t believe that the world will allow Israel to exist following such an effort at “self-defense”—that should be scare quotes, right Victor?.)
Though they really don’t think this will happen. They don’t believe Israel will or can do something like that.
And maybe they’re right….
But if it does happen, then they will be supremely satisfied; for it will present them with a major victory, an inestimable victory.
Simply because they know full well the current perverted state of global ethics, mirroring, as it does, their own murderous darkness. And yours.
Simply because the logical evolution of the glorious suicide bomber is the glorious suicide people.
And with their martyrdom, they believe—and perhaps they are right—that Israel, if it is not destroyed by its own conscience, if its own people will not be horrified and utterly demoralized by what their country has had to do to survive, then it will be destroyed by the world’s horror and the backlash; and if Israel is still able to survive all that, then its weakened state—militarily and morally—will (so they hope and fervently pray, for they are a truly religious people) make it low hanging fruit for Hezbullah, Iran and whomever else feels like taking part in the ethical/moral/religious/spiritual imperative of destroying the Jewish state.
And Hamas may be right. To the utter joy of so many.
(So there is hope, Victor. There is hope.)
Iran, likewise, knows this well (as well as does Hezbullah). Oh yes, they’re willing to lose hundreds, thousands, millions, if need be, in the glorious quest of Israel’s annihilation; and Iran has stated clearly that it is prepared to make that sacrifice (though at the moment it is more than ready to allow the Gazans to tempt that fate; and after them, the Lebanese?), supremely confident that even if Iran loses millions in the glorious effort,it will be a more than fair exchange for the ultimate destruction of the Zionist Entity.
Which Iran is certain will ensue.
Inshallah.
And who knows? They too may well be correct.
Sacrifice. Martyrdom. Destruction. Annihilation.
Maybe Gunter Grass can write a poem about it?
Is it only me or someone else noticed that when Wretchard suggested to treat Hamas Und Co with contempt and ridicule like vicious beggars they are Victor exploded?
Victor:
One of the biggest lies told about Israel is that it treats Israeli Christians as second class citizens. I have had the pleasure of having an Israeli Christian as my attending nurse for an overnight stay in the hospital. This so-called second class citizen received the same rights and privileges as all Israeli citizens enjoy including the honor of serving in the IDF.
20. Victor
Nobody says Christian-Catholic. You are almost certainly a phony. Probably a Muslim or an atheist.
If you have no dog in the fight why do you bark so much?
It’s difficult to be substantive in a comment section but many other people at BC seem to be able to pull it off. Naked assertions are the tell of a weak mind.
The US State dept ranks all countries on trafficking. Victor’s link provides 2008 data. 2012 data show that Israel has succeeded in achieving the US’ highest rating for protection on these issues. To point to old Ada and ignore present behavior is neither Catholic, nor honest behavior. Somebody needs to update the Wikipedia article too. Official 2012 data can be found here:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/192595.pdf
I don’t think you need a deep trench to eliminate the tunnels. I bet they can be located with seismic imaging. Drill a bore hole, insert explosive with vibration sensor, and collapse the tunnel when the next load comes through. Should work.
Victor is getting what he wants from all of you, Attention gives him authentication. Those that live in reality know the truth and we are truly free!
How can Israel negotiate with people who’s religion does not allow them to make “Peace” deals or Deals of any kind with Jew’s (Apes and Monkeys), Who’s very parents praise Child Homicide bombers and education teaches their children from the very start that it is lawful and ordained by their god to murder Jew’s, that Israel is illegal state? Israel will never have Peace until Islam ceases to exist…
@2 Evil Cheese >> The Isrealis are taking out the Hamas leadership which they seem to think will stop the rockets. Frankly I think they should go up the command change a few steps and start hitting those who are hiding in the shadows. They showed they could do it to Black September, why not some of the Muslim Brotherhood leaders.<<
The fighters, and the leaders of the fighters, are all expendable and replaceable.
If you want to really strike an effective blow, assassinate a succession of wealthy Arabs, the ones who finance the fighters. Without financial subsidy, the fighters have to find a real job.
The Middle East does not deserve the Israelis. I propose solving two issues simultaneously; USA should annex Mexico since they all want to be in the US anyway- not counting the drug lords and crooked politicians (in best Col.Jessup voice, “Is there another kind?”) which should be killed immediately and with extreme prejudice. Give the Israelis the majority of former-Mexico leaving the Arabs with a hollow victory as the aid will immediately end and they begin to starve. The US gets a stoic ally on her southern border and all the industry, development and prosperity it will bring. The Arabs get what they want, Israel gets what they want, Mexico gets what it wants. As a bonus, the US erradicates the Mexican drug trade and saves money on Border Patrol. (export all Mexican criminals and gang members to the former Israeli area just as Britain exported her criminals to Australia, that turned out well.) I don’t see a downside to this.
I just skip Victor anymore; old record, same song, it wasn’t good the first time I heard it.
Victor gets Ho Ho’s from his controller whenever he can weave an anti-Israel comment into a thread, therefore, this thread was tailor made for his Jew bashing.
Mexicans are the new Palestinians.
On a good day at work I can be sitting at my desk focusing on the problem in front of me and people walk in and stand next right to me and I do not know that they are there. Which is funny when I then jump out of my seat.
I like to shoot at the range on the weekends and the same thing often happens when aiming at the target. It is like time stops and there is nothing else in the world going on until the magazine is empty.
Israel now needs that kind of focus and concentration. It needs to maintain a clear concept of doing what it needs to do to stop the rockets. Nothing more or less. People like Victor, and he would be a moderate on the Huff Po or similar websites, want to distract. It is the whole Hamas strategy and classic guerilla tactic. They cannot melt away into the physical jungle like the Viet Minh so they melt into the virtual media, rhetorical and diplomatic jungle for cover.
Hamas is getting the crap beat out of them. They can do nothing to defend against the airstrikes. Their precious offensive arsenal which they have worked so hard on is either destroyed or grossly innefective thanks to Iron Dome. They did hit a West Bank Palestinian village today. Israel is winning in both long and short term.
The key is not to let the shananigans in Cairo or Washington, and certainly not the NYT distract.
“If you chase two rabbits both of them will escape.”
Cowboy 42,
Thank you for the courtesy of remembering me. I did not leave the blog at our host’s request. Whiskey was not my enemy, indeed I had at first urged forbearance but when he descended to personal abuse of our host I supported his removal. More problematic for those who remember the Flame Wars was the erratic behavior of Habu. While an often incisive and engaging commentator, he began bullying women and then intimated a threat of violence.
Why do intelligent productive people fall into the aridity of personal abuse and hate? Perhaps it is a response to a trauma or the aging process. When it happens it is frightening to see. The less talented trolls or hate mongers find cover and exploit such problems. Wretchard managed to hold the ship on course at a difficult time.
My reason for leaving was simply that I was being stalked through the threads by a lunatic that I had met in real life and invited here. My apologies to all. There is apparently no way to protect anyone from that. Know that I follow you and wish you, well almost all of you, well.
Someone left an italic tag hanging.
LOTM – nice to see you are still with us. Hope all is well with you.
10. El Gringo
Speaking of which, what is a “Palestinian”, anyway?
There are real “Palestinians.” They are officially known as “Israeli Arabs.” These were the Arab inhabitans of “Palestine” with deep roots in the immediate area, which is why they stayed when it became Israel. The other “Palestinians” who fled when the combined Arab armies were routed by the Jews, were recent immigrants from neighboring Arab countries, who had no real stake in what was their new “home,” so they ran away, especially when ordered to do so by Arab leaders. They were never repatriated to their original homelands, at the insistence of their countries of origin. The West Bank and Gaza are no-man’s lands created by Arab intransigence. The UN itself shows in its records from the beginning that the average lenght of residence for the displaced “Palestinians” in the former “Palestine” was two years. When Jews fleeing post-Holocaust Europe flooded Palestine to help found Israel along with the substantial Jewish population already there, the surrounding Arab countries did the same thing with their citizens, thus creating bogus “Palestinians,” who subsequently fled. The Jews stayed, so they won. Period.
HEY! WHAT’s WITH THE ITALICS THROUGHOUT? ANYONE ELSE SEE THAT?
The problem starts at the end of #48.
“Impeach Obama”: can you close your italics please?
Thanks!
Victor @20:
‘I am an American Christian – Catholic’
I call bullshit. When was the last time YOU went to Sunday Mass? Or are you one of those ‘Progressive’ catholics?
Mr. Fernandez is correct; thanks for self-identifying.
Speakeasy 62,
I LOVE your plan! LOL!!
Wretchard 41,
What you note is old news Victor can not refute. I wish movies were made about the treatment of Infidels working and living in SA. What Victor notes is CRIME in Israel. Israeli gangsters who are not exlusively Jews are expoiting foreign women in sex bondage just like Mexican girls are exploited in USA by gangsters.
I have several engineer friends who did contract work in SA. Those Muttawas are everywhere. Some of my friends were expelled because they were caught practicing their faith in private/secret.
Decades ago my sister dated a Saudi fighter pilot training at Luke AFB. She was taken in by this tall dark handsome prince. Things went on wonderfully until they decided to get a room (yeah, she was kinda loose). To put it mildly, it was NOT the Arabian Night she expected. She said she had to escape! Yeah, those manly Arabian pious Wahabbi men. Also heard a lot of stories from military friends describing the rampant homosexuality among Arab and Turkish troops. I hear similar stories from Afghanistan.
What a culture!
Regarding Victor and his religion, I think he may be a Mel Gibson Catholic!
It is an honor to be a guest here and I feel honored that my fellow commenters have put up with my “mental illness” for all these years.
@67 -
still italics?
I used 5 close italics – still here.
I don’t know why italics remain on.
@30. Victor
“Israel prohibits all forms of trafficking in persons through its Anti-Trafficking Law”
That’s taken from the very wikipedia page you linked. I notice you quoted the part of the article which demonizes a whole nation for the illegal activities of certain criminal elements within it, but omitted that portion of the same article indicating that such activity is neither condoned by Israel, nor is it legal.
The wikipedia article goes on to indicate that Israel is continuing to improve its enforcement of anti-trafficking law.
“Foreign workers who file complaints regarding criminal offenses are not arrested, are generally placed in alternative employment, and are granted immigration relief.”
Can you say the same with regards to KSA?
Cherry picking an article to create a certain narrative doesn’t even remotely fly on this particular ‘blog Victor. It’s one of the reasons I read it. Too much of the subject matter of this website is devoted to dissecting just such narratives, for its readers to fall for such things. You will get no traction with such nonsense here.
W – in examining the source code for my earlier ‘Twain’ quote there is a malformed expression
Twain <i />
I am sorry but I don’t know how to fix it.
re “Israel should bring in goods and distribute them. Make a parody of the bloodthirsty Jew image and see what Anderson Cooper does with that.”
My guess is such an event would not be deemed newsworthy By Anderson Cooper’s ilk and would be ignored.
Just because an event is newsworthy doesn’t mean it would be covered by the media, especially if it does not fit the narrative.
One item i note from looking at the map is that the strip is much narrower on the North end. So rather than cut at the border, cut just south of Gaza City. Dig the trench, with 20 foot walls on both sides, with only one crossing under Israeli control.
It avoids border problems with Egypt. It allows an attack with a choice of many places to attack, rather than only one that lets the enemy prepare.
Even if rockets are shipped to the southern strip, it moves most populated Israel from rocket range. No city fighting is needed. A shorter zone of control is required. Couple that with the twinkie defense of generous supplies of snack food (suggestions?), it limits the evil ones chances to blame Israel. Hamas is cut off from easy access to near launching points, Israel regains control it is losing at the Egypt border crossing & tunnels. Letting Hamas smuggle rockets into south Gaza doesn’t cost much. Since rockets can be launched from Egypt itself, the small bump of south Gaza doesn’t add a lot of danger.
The only reason not to do this: Is this actually an effort to smash Hamas? Go in and clean out the rats. Hand Gaza over the the “good” guys, in return for “peace in our time”, while the planes head for Iran. A knock out the enemy in your rear before taking on the enemy in front.
If this is true, if Hamas is smart, they should agree to the cease-fire before they are smashed. If Israel is not worried about looking bad, (since they will be no matter what they do), they have almost nothing to lose by going all in in Gaza. Thousands of “innocents” will die, (that human shield problem). Yet to get rid of the rats is it worth it to burn down the building?
Hamas has the problem that they have no place to retreat if Israel cuts them off from Egypt. Obama becomes their only hope. Such a “reliable” friend. Ah, such interesting times, when Obama is the only hope of your enemy.
Hey Victor… no need to worry about this….
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235635/Gaza-conflict-Egyptian-president-says-peace-Gaza-imminent-predicts-lasting-ceasefire-begin-tomorrow.html
They are just israeli “spies”…probably jews. Good thing they aren’t guest workers.
What to do about Vickie? Respond and correct distortions and lies? Ignore? Ban? I have followed “ignore.” She doesn’t seem to like this.
No need to speculate on where the IDF will attack in the ground invasion. They announce it all in advance. Israel issued thousands of text messages, calls, and flyers informing residents of certain areas that they should evacuate to central Gaza because an attack is imminent.
I do not think there has ever been an army like this before. The world certainly does not know what to make of it.
In the spirit of intellectual Laisse Faire, I say keep Victor around. It is hard to figure out who your enemies are until they introduce themselves. Previously I had a fairly positive view of Turkey. Now more than ever I must consider, Turks are Jerks.
Interesting turn of events with a possible “agreement” between Hamas and Israel brokered by Morsi of all people. Throw into that mix the sudden ramping up hostilities by our esteemed Turkish minder, Victor. Also note that Hezbollah has decided to stay out of the fight so far. What to make of it all?
I don’t disagree with the notion that the Iranian Mullahs are pulling Hamas’ string. I also believe they have pulled Hezbollah’s to do the same. Problem is that while Iran is using Syria as a conduit for weapons and influence surrounding Israel, Syria holds a similar relationship with Hezbollah. And as the Assad regime implodes, Hezbollah’s top cover fades away. They are not loved in Lebanon by anyone. Perhaps they are reassessing their position and an escape route.
Also do not forget that Russia inserted special forces into Syria ostensibly to keep the lid on the NBC weaponry. I have not heard of them leaving. Perhaps those weapons – Saddam’s and Assad’s both – may not proliferate as much as we think. Of course there are always the Duck of Death’s NBC from Libya.
As to what would stir up the Turks in all of this, they have already traded fire with Syria, up to the point of losing a jet. They also have the Kurds to worry about – theirs, Syria’s and Iraq’s. There is a lot more going on than we see I expect.
But this is all arm waving and speculation. Sure would be interested in finding out what Morsi expects to gain from all of this. Better yet, what has stirred up the Turks? Cheers -
Try that.
victor – As a Christian who has lived in Israel twice – you are a liar. End of story.
70. impeach 0bama
@67 -
still italics?
I used 5 close italics – still here.
I don’t know why italics remain on.
Don’t worry about it. These things happen from time-to-time
Reading the post and all of the comments, combining that with what I know already, I have come to the following conclusions:
1. Hamas leadership is likely shitting its collective pants as reality slowly dawns on them and they begin to understand that they have really bit off more than they can chew and that the usual actors are too wrapped up in their own crises (EU debt & recession, Arab civil wars, etc.) to hold Israel back.
2. The best idea I have read is to dig a ditch along the border to destroy the upper layer of tunnels, then flood the ditch, which will destroy the deeper tunnels. Kind of like the parting of the Red Sea in reverse.
3. The Egyptians will not do squat to block such an Israeli action, unless the MB is totally unmoored from reality, in which case the Egyptian military will be quickly annihilated and the resulting humiliation will precipitate riots and collapse in Egypt, which would be quickly followed by famine. (the last part will probably happen anyway sometime in the coming year)
4. Victor is a total douche who pulls nonsense straight out of his ass, where it seems his head is deeply embedded. I can’t imagine that he thinks that anyone takes him seriously.