Two Elevens
Here are some reactions to the news of the death of the U.S. ambassador to Libya and to what the Daily Mail calls Obama’s foreign policy crisis. Steve Kornacki at Salon exemplifies one train of analysis: it’s all Romney’s fault.
It has since been learned that a total of four people – the U.S. ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, and three of his staff members – were killed in the attacks. President Obama has now issued a statement condemning the assault, praising Stevens, and pledging “all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe.”
The foolishness of Romney’s reaction is glaring. Pretending that the statement from the U.S. embassy in Cairo was anything other than a completely understandable and reasonable attempt by its occupants to save their own lives borders on disgraceful. Romney’s implication that the statement was issued at the height of the attacks is also false; it was actually released earlier in the day, a preventive measure aimed at keeping the protests from turning violent.
Volsky and Armbruster at Think Progress represent another variant: dissent is unpatriotic. They write that “the campaign’s response disregarded Romney’s self-imposed pledge not to engage in partisan mudslinging on the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, though it came before news broke that four Americans, including U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens, were killed in the violence.”
Any comparisons between 9/11/2012 and 9/11/2001 founder on an obvious difference. Today there’s not even a pretense of unity against the enemy. Nobody bothers with the flowers and hymns. Just partisan politics. Speaking of which, who is the enemy? Come to that, who was the enemy on the original September 11? And why use the word “enemy”? Are we not dealing with criminals? Daniel Greenfield at FrontPage writes about the “still unnamed enemy.”
“I have always said that America is at war with al Qaeda and its affiliates,” Obama declared, “and we will never be at war with Islam.” But that really isn’t up to him. What the left never seems to understand is that war doesn’t have to be mutual. No matter what you do or what defeatist foreign policy you adopt, the enemy still gets a vote. And the enemies of this country have voted with their bombs and bodies.
The left resisted calling it a “war,” describing the murder of 3,000 people as a criminal matter. Obama even attempted to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the attacks, in a civilian court in downtown Manhattan. But then Obama embraced the war and rebranded Rumsfeld’s Special Forces and drones operations as his own innovative technocratic “smart” war.
On none of these subjects is there unanimous agreement. Not on the existence of an enemy, his identity, or the strategy of combating him. All that September 11, 2001, suggested, and which September 11, 2012, has emphasized, is that there may be a “near” and a “far” foe. And for some partisans, the near enemy takes precedence.
Check out chris stevens video on YouTube.
TWANLOC: Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen
Wretchard,
The only enemy that Democrats recognize are Republicans.
Foreign enemies are to be dealt with via armed welfare to ungrateful and violent foreigners.
IOW, foreign policy for Democrats is a variant of domestic policy not unlike that of dealing with gangs in downtown Chicago.
If this follows the usual Obama Administration script, expect to see multiple emails asking for campaign contributions based on Gov. Romney “not stopping criticism of the American government at the water’s edge“.
“No they can’t.” Perfect.
Rather than blathering about how we are “mourning” our loss, Obama should have quoted a literate American
“It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
This war is about people being free to decide their own lives and a world where the “better” class dictates your life and establishes the grave in which you live. Those “betters” have always been the ruling class be it a Harvard grad., King and his court, a Czar, or Mullahs. It is about control and owning others; slavery if you will no matter what mantle you wrap it in.
Islam is simply a cellularized distributed totalitarian govt. mascarading as a relegion with a death cult attached. It is no different from Marxism, Nasiasim, or any other totalitarian ism, just much older and in most part comprised of a retrograde intellect population.
At some point if the world is to ever approach peace, they will all have to die, down to the last man.
Not to read too much into 11s, but after 9/11 I pondered the fact that the buildings were shaped like the number 11, the first plane to hit was American Airlines Flight #11, and I wondered if 11 played any cosmology in Islam. Then I heard about the coded messages the hijackers and UBL used to refer to the date – “a cake followed by two candles.”. To a Westerner, this idiom probably wouldn’t conjur up the number 911, but the childish usage seemed like something Arabic children might be widely taught in learning the Arabic alphabet, and specifically in learning to spell ALLAH. The repeated meme of 11, the shape of the WTC buildiings, the shapes of the date along with ALLAH with the double Ls is getting very coincidental. Now 11 years after 9/11, we get this obviously coordinated series of attacks.
It seems plausible that AQ is repeatedly glorifying their heinous god to Muslims who would understand the significance. Spelling their vile god’s name in flames and blood and shattered infidel bodies is exactly the sort of thing that would resonate with Muslim scum across the planet. I never found anyone making these specific connections though it may have happened. I’m not bringing it up to plumb he mystical aspects of AQ, there are none. But the twisted Muslim hive-mind requires unraveling if ever intend to destroy it… Just some thoughts.
So We may actually be talking about many 11s. The Muslim enemy has very little regard for us. These attacks are designed as billboards and calls to Islam for the horde.
I was getting a haircut about an hour ago and heard some of Hilary’s remarks on CNN. In the little I heard, she sounded a lot more like a president than the one we have. Her remarks were forthright in condemning the attacks and accepting no excuse by the perpetrators. Romney’s statement must have awakened some sense of what the hell is really going on. Obama, as far as I can tell, is still engaged in perfecting his Jimmah imitation. I wonder when the cardigan comes out and he decides to barricade himself in the White House.
Message (Delivered too late) to John Christopher “Chris” Stevens:
(…and to Obama voters in the USA)
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
John Christopher “Chris” Stevens (April 1, 1960[1] – September 11, 2012) was a diplomat and lawyer who served as the U.S. Ambassador to Libya from June 2012 to September 2012.[2][3] He died when Islamic extremists attacked the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, on September 11, 2012.[4][2][5]
Early life
Stevens was born and raised in Northern California. He earned his undergraduate degree at the University of California, Berkeley, in 1982. From 1983 to 1985, he taught English as a Peace Corps volunteer in Morocco. He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) from the University of California, Hastings College of the Law in 1989. He later studied for a Master of Science (M.S.) from the National War College in 2010. He spoke Arabic and French.
Prior to joining the United States Foreign Service, he was an international trade lawyer based in Washington, D.C.[3]
—
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
“Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?” asked the frog hesitantly.
“Because,” the scorpion replied, “If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!”
Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. “What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!”
“This is true,” agreed the scorpion, “But then I wouldn’t be able to get to the other side of the river!”
“Alright then…how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?” said the frog.
“Ahh…,” crooned the scorpion, “Because you see, once you’ve taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!”
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog’s back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog’s soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog’s back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.
“You fool!” croaked the frog, “Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?”
The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog’s back.
“I could not help myself. It is my nature.”
Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.
Self destruction – “Its my Nature”, said the Scorpion…
—
1. Zek202 said…
Check out chris stevens video on YouTube.
The link to this Highly “Educated” idealist.
So is this another sign of health from the religion of peace’s transition to democracy?
I guess we can finally put a fork in the Arab Spring. American posts in Algeria and Tunisia are sweating right now.
Had anybody anywhere heard of this film before? Rather, this group of films before? Because I count three: one made by an American Jew, another American one of unclear origin, and a third produced by Egyptian Copts. All are quite obscure. It is as if somebody motivated this mob. Who could that be? Curiously, rioters in Cairo have been seen wearing Guy Fawkes masks.
I absolutely love the bit condemning anyone for dissent, coming from these leftist jackals who screamed “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism” for 8 years running. They put it on bumper stickers.
Hillary Clinton – “How could this happen? How could this happen in a country we helped liberate? In a city we helped save from destruction”
The smartest woman in America. Mystified. Shocked by the unforeseen turn of events.
“The foolishness of Romney’s reaction is glaring. Pretending that the statement from the U.S. embassy in Cairo was anything other than a completely understandable and reasonable attempt by its occupants to save their own lives borders on disgraceful. Romney’s implication that the statement was issued at the height of the attacks is also false; it was actually released earlier in the day, a preventive measure aimed at keeping the protests from turning violent.”
A post by Subotai two threads ago seemed to indicate that our forces stood down rather than defiantly defend our compounds. If we had repelled those attacks violently in no uncertain terms I doubt that the Embassy would have been in danger. The idea that the “completely understandable” groveling apology by the Egyptian Embassy would actually help protect the embassy shows how little our diplomatic personnel and this Steve Kornacki nitwit understand the behavior of our Muslim enemies.
But their behavior goes to the heart of the matter. Either we justifiably respond to these attacks with overwhelmingly and unmerciful force or we retreat, cower and apology for the most ridiculous perceived slights, only to await in fear of our own demise, watching all the while as our friends and loved ones are sent to their deaths by these murderous evil wackjobs posing as Holy Men.
Obama’s problem is now that it is “Moderate” Islam , and his friends at the Muslim Brotherhood who are backing and embracing these attacks on our citizens, not just Al Qaeda. It is not us against extremist Islam anymore, but us against the Islamic rank and file. The Muslim Obama obviously is conflicted, and that is actually being way too generous, about where his loyalties lie. He is clearly not defending nor has any intention of defending American Lives or Interests against this evil and should be removed from office ASAP.
W: “On none of these subjects is there unanimous agreement. Not on the existence of an enemy, his identity nor the strategy of combating him.”
Perhaps it was always thus. The victors get to write history, so much of the internal dissent prior to victory gets stuffed down the memory hole. Who remembers the calls by US citizens for the US to support the Kaiser against the English king prior to the US entry into WW I?
There’s an entertaining story about a failed German attempt to demoralize French troops during WW I. The Germans set up megaphones on the front lines and had a French-speaking German soldier regale the French troops in the opposing trench with tales of how US & British soldiers were having fun with French soldiers wives & sweethearts back in Paris. The surprising response was cheers from the French trenches, and the more colorful the German soldier’s descriptions of the fun & games in Paris, the louder the French troops cheered & applauded.
The Germans had not realized that the French troops in front of them were mostly recruited from Marseilles. The Marseilles French troops might have been fighting the Germans, but they really hated the Parisian French.
But don’t let the storming of US embassies get blown out of proportion. Obumble isn’t. He’s still campaigning.
I am feeling rather retro today. I find seeing innocent people slain and their bodies dragged through the streets more offensive than some poorly made video about Mohammed.
#3 Trent Telenko’s comment that “the only enemy the Democrats recognize is Republicans” is borne out by the comments on the Think Progress article. One woman talked about the “terrorist GOP’, probably because they don’t support buying the Fluke skank a dildo. She would be apologizing to the Libyan mob while they gang raped her and slit her throat.
#8 Hillary might have sounded presidential after the attacks but where was she when the Libyan savages were sodomizing Gaddafi’s corpse? Why ,she was celebrating the aroma of freedom in the air in Benghazi. She’s as much a liberal fool as Obama , the only difference is her menopausal rages (probably why Bill stays away as much as he can)
I appreciate Priebus having the cojones to call out the left. He’s not a spineless weasel like many other GOP chairmen.
Back in 1979 I was at Columbia. (Full disclosure; it took me 10 years, a condo’s worth of beer to get a worthless damning degree. Thank you Jesus for saving me.)
There were lots of anti shah students on campus. I had been seeing them since they took part in the anti Viet Nam war demonstrations 10 years earlier in DC.After the revolution in Iran they all disappeared. They were westernizers who were played and tossed aside by the mullahs.
When the US embassy was taken over by the mullahs and their adherents–it wasn’t just Jimmy Carter who was humiliated. It was the whole country. Everyone felt like they fell in a hell hole with a bunch of rats.
That’s why Reagan’s talk was so refreshing.
Is Romney made of the same stuff?
Likely not. We’ll see. Certainly he’s a sight better than Obama.
What to do?
First of all encourage the Libyans to push the Egyptians out of Libya. That’s in the short term. As well take up a more vigorous defense of the Copts in Egypt. Finally, cut off the fricking aide to the Egyptians. The MB wants to go it alone? Let them starve their people.
But most of all a concerted effort needs to be made to make the USA energy independent. And then produce enough oil/gas to collapse the cost of oil–just like has been done with natural gas. (Romney’s going for North American energy independence rather than American independence. This is a mistake. The US does not need Canadian or Mexican oil or gas products. Let them export.)
The way to gain oil independence and then collapse the cost of oil is to exploit the oil shale in the green river formation in south western wyoming and north western colorado. Its almost all under federal lands.
There have been three studies so far presented to the US congressional energy subcommittee which have said the cost of extraction would be 20-30 dollars a barrel. That compares with 40-60 dollars a barrel for fracking oil.
Flood the world with oil produced at 20-30 dollars a barrel and the price of oil goes down to 30-40 dollars a barrel. Oil at these prices will put a serious hurt on OPEC. At this price opec cannot afford to fund the madrasses they have set up all over the middle east–especially in Pakistan.
There’s more oil locked up in the green river formation than in all the rest of the world combined.
Nothing will happen under the Obama administration on this score. But under a Romney administration, the first thing to do would be to get rid of the federal impediments to exploiting the oil shale in the green river formation. The second thing to do would be to disallow federal impediments to portable nuclear reactors to provide electricity for insitu mining. Federal regulatory exemptions to nuclear regulatory policies are currently in place for US military bases. So the US army is currently moving ahead with plans to get portable nuclear reactors onto army bases in five years or so. The idea is to get the military off the grid–which is considered to be increasing dangerous and unstable.
On June 3, 2011, Rand’s James T. Bartis appeared in the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Energy and Power. “At crude oil prices of $100 per barrel, the value of the oil that might be recovered from federally owned land is over $60 trillion,” Bartis said in written testimony. “The public wealth embedded in our oil shale lands is staggering.”
Considering most of the Green River Formation sits on federal lands and Federal Debt is 15 trillion, the oil mined in-situ from the Green River Basin could well pay some bills in an environmentally friendly way. Even if the surplus oil drives oil prices down to 30 dollars a barrel–that would still leave the federal government with 18 trillion dollars–just enough to pay off the national debt. However, the collapse of energy prices would cause an explosion of national and international wealth. This would increase government revenues—and restore the financial design margins the USA enjoyed 40 years ago—before the first arab oil embargo of 1973.
Do you think you can reason with these people? Enter a dialog and sort out the differences?
I was speaking of the Progressives, not the Islamics.
Now, do you still think your “vote” will make them see reason? Change things? Repair this nation?
Prepare. You’ve all read history, you know what this turns into before the end. All the best intent and well wishing and pleas for calm, mercy and reason aren’t going to stop it.
Obama’s cringeing theatre of apology may have inspired his international audience to mount a series of coming attacks against America. Certainly Obama officially just hung Israel out to dry. No wonder Israel has a few joint projects going with Russia right now.
Before Ambassador Stevens was killed yesterday, according to the State Department Office of the Historian, five U.S. ambassadors had been killed by terrorists :
—Adolph Dubs, in Afghanistan, 1979
—Francis E. Meloy Jr., in Lebanon, 1976
—Rodger P. Davies, in Cyprus, 1974
—Cleo A. Noel Jr., in Sudan, 1973
—John Gordon Mein, in Guatemala, 1968
Come back down to Earth, American political class! Spit and frothy delusions won’t do the job here. Someone has to pipe into Washington, some common sense, steadiness and resolve to sturdily pursue and defend American interests.
18. stevesmith…
Amen!
…ah, men w/testicles.
I was getting a haircut about an hour ago and heard some of Hilary’s remarks on CNN. In the little I heard, she sounded a lot more like a president than the one we have. Her remarks were forthright in condemning the attacks and accepting no excuse by the perpetrators. Romney’s statement must have awakened some sense of what the hell is really going on. Obama, as far as I can tell, is still engaged in perfecting his Jimmah imitation. I wonder when the cardigan comes out and he decides to barricade himself in the White House.
Don’t be ridiculous.
Part of the reason why Hillary is up to her ears in this debacle is because of the nature of the DoSs’ “chain of command”:
An Ambassador is the equivalent of a shore-based Commanding Officer in the military. They have command of a Guard force of locals in charge of external security (LFG) and even a detachment of Marines in charge of internal security and confidential material (MSG). But unlike the military, the State Department’s officer corps has no experience in how to handle these eventualities. Most of the time, they’re “trained” in how to avoid political exposure; how to avoid blame, not how to fix the problem. They just do the two-step around the shattered remains. It’s how they got into that position in the first place; they kept their noses clean by avoiding the dirty work and hard choices.
Anybody who’s been around these characters knows that DoS “COs” never surmise that a correlation of events, let alone choices, will refuse to be two-stepped around; they think they can talk their way out of anything.
They’re bureaucrats. ‘Nuff said.
So you’re telling me that a bureaucrat, a DoS bureaucrat mind you, didn’t send multitudes of requests to Hillary for instructions to cover his ass? For the moment, just put aside the matter of whether Hillary refused to take those calls to cover her own ass.
Make no mistake, “CO’s” from the State Dept typically panic or “act out” in times of stress, often taking it out on the “help”. And when flunkies panic, they bleat up the chain of command looking for direction at the same time they lash out at people beneath them. They don’t know what to do. The military tries to weed these people out of Command positions for a reason. If they aren’t weeded out in training, they’ll be weeded out in combat (not an optimal situation, however effective).
But the DoS has other “attributes” it looks for (“Don’t rock the boat”) – and those that it weeds out (“initiative”). Most of the time, these pseudo-CO Ambassadors are not vetted for Command of security/LE forces, let alone military personnel (many can’t even salute properly). Yet even the Marines have to obey the DoS officer, and even the RSO and PSO even if both have likely bolted from the premises. Many Ambassadors are in these positions out of campaign contributions, business officiandos in the mafia style, or political retirement.
Ambassadorships are treated as a “perk”. They shouldn’t be, especially in overseas ventures where the US Military should take primacy, but there it is.
Hillary was at the controls when this was going down. To the degree that she wasn’t, it was because she decided to become “absent” during which she “had no idea”. Just like she “couldn’t make it” to the DNC because she scheduled herself on the other side of the world.
It’s the “I’m ignorant” defense that never gets tired among the DoS/CIA.
Irregardless of whether Stevens was a “nice guy” or one of those typical stuck-up DoS flunkies who treat their “help” (including Military personnel) like furniture, the fact remains that he failed in his duty to his people, his post, and his Flag.
Make no mistake: If an American military CO were ever allow his post to be overrun in this way, he would now be facing court-martial. Considering the present circumstances, I’d also imagine that the media would also be in a frenzy to crucify him, intent on deflecting blame for the current crisis away from Obama and Hillary.
So now the new spin meme has been unleashed: <pearl-clutching>How dare you politicize this tragedy!!!</pearl-clutching> I saw one of my formerly-respected online acquaintances say this (and approvingly quote respected foreign policy wonk Abby Huntsman) and had to bite my tongue severely.
How can this be anything but political? It’s the direct result of failed politics. The only reason the the people who brought you politics in every single sphere of life now are screaming about the horrors of “politicizing” this is because that points the finger squarely at the Nobel-laureate Lightworker. The enemedia has more outrage directed at Romney for taking a pro-American stance than they do for the animals that murdered our Ambassador, a clear act of war in any sane country.
I have seen some speculation that the embassy attacks are Iranian led and conducted. Wouldn’t be the first time they have done this sort of thing (Lebanon, 1983 anyone?).
We have killed an awful lot of muzzies over the last decade, making it difficult to reconstitute their forces. We have not done the same with the Iranians. Perhaps it is time to start. Cheers -
zow, events continue to spin even as I write this – Rush is playing a new tape from Hildabeast that IMHO only continues to pile it higher and deeper.
in case nobody has noticed, Hillary has been probably the least visible SoS since at least WWII, and has made -zero- substantive and useful statements on anything in her entire time in office. that’s a new indoor record, afaik.
I *hope* this is playing for Romney, but (as I posted elsewhere on PJM and picked up some static for), Romney’s performance at his press conference, looked terribly weak, featuring about a six-second deer-in-the-headlights to some rude question or other. I point out that this is officially a *campaign* appearance, there is no legal basis for him playing shadow-president at this point in the game. It has to look good. It didn’t. I could go on about his body language and more, but while I’m glad he did see fit to stand up and say what he said – he said it poorly. I think he could have won BIG points with even a moderately better performance.
as to the substance of events, I think y’all have covered it well. as someone else posted this morning somewhere on PJM – I guess this is just how 9/11 is celebrated in MENA, apparently even more now after the Arab Spring than before.
NPR is also pushing the narrative that “it’s all Romney’s fault”.
The recent outrages in Egypt and Libya could possibly devolve into something like the embassy hostage crisis that insured political defeat for the Carter presidency. A spin-master/propaganda expert within the Democratic party has recognized this possibility and launched the predictable preemptive response against Romney. Of course, the MSM is cooperating fully.
The timing of the two actions in Libya and Egypt on September 11 is interesting. The official narrative is the attacks were a consequence of spontaneous indignation against an obscure Youtube video that no one heard about until after the attacks. My guess is this was a carefully planned al Qaeda operation. Al Qaeda was certainly active in both Egypt and Libya “Arab Spring” uprisings. Al Qaeda’s leadership probably planned to do something for September 11 and the obscure Youtube video provided the pretext. Also, it appears the United States was prepared for something like this to happen. From what I’ve read the American ambassador in Libya was in a “safe house’ when he was murdered and the embassy in Cairo was vacant when it was attacked.
This is a subtle game that we are playing with the Islamic fascists. I wonder if they appreciate that these sorts of attacks weakens Obama’s chances for reelection. Obama is arguably the best friend the Islamic fascists have in the US government. If anything, the Islamic fascists should be pulling in their horns until after Obama gets reelected. Either al Qaeda’s top leadership does not fully understand American politics (not likely) or they’re so blinded by hate that they can not construct a coherent strategy.
Something does not quite add up here.
———————————————-
Different topic: This comment was my third attempt at posting to PJM. There were two previous failed posting attempts where I made the comment, hit the “submit comment” button, received confirmation that the comment was sent, then went back and hit the “submit comment” button again just to make sure. The previous two attempts were from Firefox on Linux. I cut-and-pasted the comment to a flash stick and then resubmitted it through Firefox on a Mac running OS-X. The server software at PJM is either saturated, has a bug or has been compromised by a virus. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if a Stuxnet derivative virus has compromised PJM’s server.
Re. #20 “Make no mistake: If an American military CO were ever allow his post to be overrun in this way, he would now be facing court-martial.”
Was the captain of a ship (during Carter admin in 78 or 79, memory doesn’t serve me well here) that allowed Soviets to invade his ship and snatch a defector faced court-martial?
Question:
How will the American public react to these events? Be prepared to be disappointed.
Eggplant,
“This is a subtle game that we are playing with the Islamic fascists. I wonder if they appreciate that these sorts of attacks weakens Obama’s chances for reelection.”
They have miscalculated before. We’ll have to see if this is another miscalculation.
Charles @ 16 said:
“The way to gain oil independence and then collapse the cost of oil is to exploit the oil shale in the green river formation in south western Wyoming and north western colorado. … There have been three studies so far presented to the US congressional energy subcommittee which have said the cost of extraction would be 20-30 dollars a barrel. That compares with 40-60 dollars a barrel for fracking oil.”
Charles comment was interesting. I knew that fracking was expensive but was unaware that it cost 40-70 dollars per barrel. It’s my understanding that the Athabasca tar sands in Alberta, Canada cost about $50/barrel to extract and process. It appears that a petroleum $70/barrel average price is the “magic number” for making these marginal petroleum sources profitable.
I recently drove through the Bakersfield, California area and noticed that some of the old previously abandoned oil fields have been reopened. I assume those old oil fields have become economical once more due to fracking technology. The oil fields in the Bakersfield area were once highly productive. Almost a century ago, one only had to poke a hole in the ground and oil would come gushing out on its own. It’s my understanding that “gushers” or uncontrolled release of oil during drilling was a big problem with those early wells. Now they have to hydraulically fracture the petroleum permeable rock into order to extract that last tiny little bit of petroleum.
I am skeptical about the cost effectiveness of shale oil. Supposedly huge amounts of tailings are produced in the extraction process and disposal of the tailings ruins the economics (costs almost as much energy to process the tailings as extracted from the shale). It is my understanding that shale can produce significant amounts of natural gas through fracking. However there is a limited market for natural gas, e.g. electrical power production, etc. Liquid fuel from petroleum is what we really need. For this reason, I remain convinced that synthetic petroleum from coal coupled with nuclear power remains our best method for economic independence from Middle East petroleum.
A thought just tippy-toed through my head… I wonder how expensive raw crude needs to be before it becomes cost effective to march the indigenous population out of the Middle East at the tip of a bayonet and simply seize their petroleum wealth by force? War is expensive and someone has obviously done the calculation that it’s cheaper to buy the petroleum from the Moslems rather than seize/steal it through military means. At some point that calculation will break down. The Saudis are no fools. They must know what that magic number is and planned accordingly.
Telling the truth about Islam always enrages the moderate Moslem street and its supporters in America.
28. Eggplant
Charles @ 16
Good a time as any for Romney to point out the need for energy independence through oil gas and coal.
Was the captain of a ship (during Carter admin in 78 or 79, memory doesn’t serve me well here) that allowed Soviets to invade his ship and snatch a defector faced court-martial?
Not even close to the same thing.
(A) The Soviets were invited to anchor in a US harbor. It was at that time that the defector, Kudirka, jumped onto USCGC Vigilant (Coast Guard cutter). The atmosphere at time was that the cutter was supposed to be PROTECTING the Soviet ship.
(B) The Soviets did not “invade” (the correct word is “board”) the USCGC Vigilant. In fact, “boarding” is precisely what Kidurka technically did. The Vigilant immediately went to “Intruder Alert”. The Soviets, by contrast, were invited on a “Visit”, which in naval terminology means “non-hostile”.
(C) You may not understand this, but at the time, the State Department had sole authority over Asylum requests which were directed by the Carter Administration. And the Carter Administration’s policy at the time was basically: “The US does not encourage defectors”.
(D) The State Department rejected Kudirka’s request for asylum. So there you go.
(E) The State Dept basically ordered the DESRON (actually, I can’t recall what the CG calls them for some reason) and the Cutter CO to release custody to the Soviets in their own (of course) slippery, mealy-mouthed way. Of course, it took the DESRON several hours of haranguing to get something close to a clear answer on the asylum request.
(F) Both the DESRON (whatever the CG calls it) and the OIC were subsequently punished which effectively ended their careers (happy?) – and to this day, they remain scapegoats for a policy that was not of their making in deference to “orders” they had no place to disobey. But the USCG lost two good men, so you should be proud.
(G) Now let me ask YOU something: Did the State Dept pukes who rejected Kudirka’s asylum have THEIR careers ended? Or did they slip off like they always do by playing it slick, leaving a uniformed officer to eat the shit?
Morton D @7.: I’ll take “Things ending in ‘-even’ for 100, Alex”
I’ve noticed that little peculiarity, but I prefer to think that it’s an audio thing. 9/11; the Madrid bombins on March 11, and the London train bombings on July 7. It can’t be that the double “1″ looks like the name of Allah, because Muslims don’t write Allah’s name in Roman letters, they use Arabic. And we all know that in Arabic the deity looks like a Dairy Queen swirly icecream cone. So I don’t think it can be that the shape of the number 11 drives them to commit atrocities. (Hey, by the way, I notice YOUR comment was number 7! I suspect everything… and everyone…)
28. Eggplant
I was just reading in the morning newspaper that oil sands are competitive with tight oil (shale etc) when the oil sands achieve a steam to oil ratio of about 3.5. Apparently Many of the present oil sands operations already achieve a much better steam to oil ratio between 2.0 and 2.5.
Of course tight oil extraction costs will come down as extraction processes improve, but oil sands costs will also come down for the same reason.
Let’s see, 9/11 rolls up and there isn’t extra security at Embassy’s in Muslim Countries, Embassies in Muslim Countries that are in different stages of Upheaval, Especially a county were we (US) helped kill its leader AND Al Qaida was known to have been involved in the overthrow of said leader AND the city in which the Embassy sits is flying the flag of a Al-Qaida associated group which is by the way RUNNING the said city…Hmmm. Yup! 0bama’s finger prints all over this operation! Classic “Lead from behind”. Well at least Steven’s was able to die living his ideology and serving 0bama’s purpose, I am sure Axelrod will spin it for all its worth and paint Mitt/Ryan with every drop of his blood that he can. Can anyone blame Hildabeast for being on the other side of the world all this time… 0bama now has a reason to fire Hildabeast for leaving the Embassies grossly under protected during such a obvious time and in obviously very dangerous lands OR maybe Hildabeast will turn in her resignation saying she can’t be responsible for more deaths if the President won’t adequately staff them with security forces… a way out and still look good for her next election opportunity.
OK, I’ll answer my own question at #26:
I don’t think the general public will quite get this whole embassy attacks thing. They are numbed by years of war. I have a bad feeling it will have no effect either way on the election unless it is tied in with other foreign relations issues (like the open mic moment with Medvedev), and the need for energy independence the old-fashioned way (oil, coal, gas and nuclear).
#34
If the Administration “protects” the embassies then Marines would by definition have to shoot intruders. Who knows? Maybe Obama would have to give back his Nobel and the Arabs wouldn’t love him so much. Not worth the risk to his ego unless he can see 2 percentage points in the polls out of it.
Instead of querying the Admin about this self-made disaster the MSM is busying itself attacking Romney for stating his position.
stevesmith @ 33 said:
“Of course tight oil extraction costs will come down as extraction processes improve, but oil sands costs will also come down for the same reason.”
I read somewhere that the big cost driver with the Alberta tar sands is labor costs. Supposedly it is really difficult to find people who are willing to work in central Alberta (not the nicest place to live). Ultimately, energy drives the economy. We have significant unemployment because energy costs are too high. However despite high unemployment it’s difficult to find people willing to do the nasty job of extracting tar sands. That’s where the socialist factor works its way into the equation. People have made the choice that collecting unemployment checks is better than collecting a high wage doing dreadful work.
Progs these days remind me of Hitler in his Fuehrerbunker. Deep down, they know their war is ultimately lost, but they’re still obsessing over their architectural models of “Obamia,” poring over electoral maps, flying into rages against suspected traitors within their ranks, ordering recalcitrant foot soldiers to be (figuratively) shot, stripped of titles or expelled from the Party, all the while muttering, “Axelrod and Plouffe will break through and save us!”
egg @ 37: People have made the choice that collecting unemployment checks is better than collecting a high wage doing dreadful work.
Waitaminute, dreadful work should pay a high wage, and is. Sounds OK to me.
Supposedly it is really difficult to find people who are willing to work in central Alberta
Wish I were 20 years younger. I’d dump my JD in a heartbeat and go for petroleum engineering. Seems like a huge growth industry going forward.
Peter Boston,
“If the Administration “protects” the embassies then Marines would by definition have to shoot intruders.”
FWIW, I was a Marine Security Guard at three diplomatic missions in Africa and South America in 1977-1979. I can’t, and won’t, speak for current training, but when I went through MSG School instructors repeatedly hammered into us that the Chief of Mission had express control over usage of weaponry except, of course, in life-or-death situations. We couldn’t even DISPLAY our unholstered firearms (at that time primarily .38 caliber revolvers and Remington 870P shotguns) without the express authorization of the Chief of Mission (i.e., Ambassador).
36. Peter Boston
#34
If the Administration “protects” the embassies then Marines would by definition have to shoot intruders.
Unfortunately, this is incorrect for a multitude of reasons. But above all, there are two:
(A) The Ambassador is still the overall “Commanding Officer” and the “authorities appointed over” the Marines include the Ambassador’s lackeys like his PSO, Chargé d’affaires, FSO, etc. Whatever you want to call them, all of these people have the authority to countermand a Marine’s decisions except in cases of self-defense…which by then is usually too late. It’s like saying the Marines can fire once the truck bomb hits the barracks. The detachment officer is usually a sergeant and while he’s technically a “CO”, he’s relegated to functionary status in the Ambassador’s chain of command structure.
The Marines have no power to issue orders. I personally think this should change, especially in a military situation (like a doctor who can relieve a CO on medical grounds).
(B) It may be under some discussion in the military’s MCESG school (who knows what curriculum the DoS is teaching Marines these days? *wink*), but the MSG’s priorities include securing/destroying all confidential materials at the embassy. That procedure along with others makes manpower tight, and to defend the interior against a mob, let alone the entire compound, let alone the entire embassy grounds… to say nothing of the fact that an Ambassador will always procrastinate until what he thinks is the last second before releasing discretionary authority to a Marine Sergeant…. Which by then is too late.
The bottom line is that someone had to have the will to commit an “atrocity” in the minds of those Muslim thugs or at least act as a bad cop before it got to this situation.
Someone had to be willing to take the heat for killing “innocent civilians” in the eyes of the media, knowing they were anything but.
Stevens may or may not have been a nice guy.
He’ll be turned into a martyr, rightly or wrongly.
But one way or another, he was unfit for Command.
Eggplant @ 37: “We have significant unemployment because energy costs are too high.”
No sir, you are wrong. Plain wrong. This is a little off topic, but needs to be said. We have Great Depression-level un- & under-employment (Gov’t statistical games aside) because we have too many job-destroying regulations and too much wasteful overhead in taxpayer-funded drones enforcing those regulations. Roll back over-regulation, and watch jobs get created regardless of energy costs.
There was a recent Brit news item. To try to revive their moribund economy, the Brits are talking about suspending enforcement of 3,000 regulations. At the same time, they rushed to assure their petrified population that those were only the minor regulations; the big important regulations will still stay in effect.
Now imagine you are a Brit small businessman. (I know, I know. But just hypothetically imagine there was such a thing as a Brit entrepreneur). Spend 1 hour per year reporting on each of those 3,000 regulations — and you would already be working overtime. Before you had even done anything in your business. And working overtime probably puts you at odds with some of those important regulations that they are not planning to suspend. Do you think that Brit businessman has time to care about the cost of energy?
What the heck does “protect” mean then? Supposedly more Marines are heading for Libya. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that these guys are going in harm’s way under the burden of an idiot ROE.
The proper response to the attack on the embassy should have been an M249 SAW. I have confidence the Marines were willing, and the state department was not. Given that failure, that Al Qaeda flag should have been removed from our compound within 20 minutes, with a multi megaton device if necessary. It seems we’re heading quickly towards the three conjectures, we might as well get on with it.
I think it is important for everyone to call BS on anyyone who claims this was really about an unknown youtube video. This was an Al Qaeda anniversary celebration with a pretext.
(BTW Richard, is there a copyright or some other reason the 3 conjectures post is not on the PJM site, only the old site? Maybe a repost?)
The primary mission of marine guards at US missions abroad is to protect classified material and to provide a last line of defense in the case of attack. They have NO authority to operate outside of the grounds of the mission and I assume that “last line” means they are not to open fire on rioters who manage to take the flag pole. If they make it to the front door of the embassy, that’s another story.
The consulate in Benghazi was small and the security there appears to have been significantly lighter than other similar posts. I imagine the new marines are being sent there to beef up the location in case of further attacks.
28. Eggplant
I am skeptical about the cost effectiveness of shale oil. Supposedly huge amounts of tailings are produced in the extraction process and disposal of the tailings ruins the economics (costs almost as much energy to process the tailings as extracted from the shale).
…………….
This is the old method. The new method is called in situ oil extraction. What they do is cook the oil shale in place until it melts and then pump the oil out of the ground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shale_oil_extraction
Kinuachdrach @ 43,
I agree that there are too many government regulations, particularly in my native California. However I stand by my original comment that the root of our current economic difficulties is the high price of energy. You can solve almost any economic and/or social problem if you can throw enough energy at it. However if energy is too expensive then you are obliged to pursue other methods, i.e. print money, manipulate the stock market, lie, cheat, steal, etc. Ultimately these other methods fail if energy costs can not be reduced.
I would argue that the abundance of government regulations are a relic from the time when we had enough cheap energy that we could afford such stupidity. California is currently in a deep dark hole due to all the stupid laws and regulations that were enacted during the prosperous times when we were energy rich as a state.
Charles @ 47 said:
“The new method is called in situ oil extraction. What they do is cook the oil shale in place until it melts and then pump the oil out of the ground.”
Very interesting. Thank you for the link. One of the reasons why I post at Belmont Club is to learn about new things like this.
I’m now way off topic concerning energy issues and used up my four comments so I’ll say no more for this thread.
I’d be a lot happier if we heard there are 50+ Marines headed to EVERY at-risk embassy (and with better ROE). Barn door – horse – Marines makes no sense.
I thought the Iranians were mixed up in this. Still do based on the Canadians closing their embassy and kicking them out of Canada last week. Reports of more mobs breaking out in Morocco and the Sudan this morning.
And should the Muslim Brotherhood be in the middle of this, we shouldn’t forget that Hildabeast’s gal pal and Chief of Staff at State is one Huma Abedin, who has close family ties to the Muslim Brotherhood through her mother’s side of the family.
Things are about to spin up nicely. Cheers -
Let’s take a look at who helped Obama lay the groundwork for this.
Weekly Standard (March 31, 2011): Senator Marco Rubio offered his full-throated support Wednesday for the U.S. intervention in Libya and called on President Barack Obama to be clear that regime change is the objective of America’s involvement. In an interview yesterday afternoon, Rubio said that failing to remove Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, after Obama publicly called for him to go, would have grave consequences for America’s reputation in the region and in the world. Last night, Rubio sent a letter to Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell, Democratic and Republican leaders in the Senate, calling for Congress to affirm Obama’s policy by authorizing the use of the military force in Libya and to make explicit the goal of regime change. “This resolution should also state that removing Moamar Qadhafi from power is in our national interest and therefore should authorize the President to accomplish this goal. To that end, the resolution should urge the President to immediately recognize the Interim Transitional National Council as the legitimate government in Libya.”
Charles’ tidbit about US military bases planning on independent small nuclear generators certainly explains the Dept. of Energy’s small modular reactor program – the commercial economics certainly don’t.
Extracting heavy or thick or tight oil requires either physical extraction (mining) and heat treatment or in-situ heat treatment. Both require large amounts of energy in the form of steam. Cheap natural gas helps – the current price is about $2.50 per million BTU. Nuclear reactors can also provide this energy. Nuclear heat in a reactor is about $0.50 per million BTU but of course a nuclear reactor will have more expensive capital costs over a natural gas boiler but at some point there’s an economic breakeven.
Such nuclear reactors would be designed differently from our current very large reactors designed for economic electrical generation. First, they would be of lower pressure, say 250 psi compared to 2,200 psi for a current nuclear power plant. That makes them even more safe and much cheaper – and easier to operate too.
I fully agree that making the US and North America energy-independent would change the world in America’s favor. Nuclear engineers can help, certainly, but government getting out of the way of our petroleum engineers and their employers is the first, most important step.
Jarrett is a member of African-American and Chicago royalty. But her story and her life begin in the Middle East, not the Midwest. She was born in 1956 in Shiraz, Iran, about 570 miles south of Tehran. Her parents moved to Shiraz, known for its poets, wine and flowers, as part of a program that sent American doctors and agricultural experts to developing countries to help jump-start their health and farming efforts. Her father was on the staff of the brand new Nemazee Hospital, where Jarrett was born.
http://www.iranian.com/main/singlepage/2008/valerie-jarrett
A link up at Drudge Report, to Ynet, is now reporting that Egypt is taking legal action against the people who made the allegedly evil video.
C’mon, you knew this was coming!
Happy Let’s-All-Honor-the-Glorious-19 Day!
P.S. Have you wept over the sad, untimely death of Chairman Yassir Arafat today, and the plight of the Paleostinian peoples?
“Allah” written in arabic… “a cake and two candles”
Did the goole search as I have no idea how to attach an image to comments…
http://www.google.com/search?q=allah+written+in+arabic&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|L3PIrJkqdsoJPM:
I hope Tawana Logan wasn’t in there. She’d be in a lot of hypothetical danger right now.
I hope that Mr. Bacile is happy today. It is absolutely within his rights as an American (if he is an American) to say whatever he wishes. Our Constitution guarantees his right to free speech and I laud him for saying what he believes. His words have had tragic consequences beyond our hallowed borders however. He then blames lax American security for the deaths of four people. I say we encourage Mr. Bacile to return to Israel (if that is his country of origin) and encourage him to spout his hate speech there. Let’s see how long he lasts in Israeli civil society; about 2 minutes I reckon. Congratulations Mr. Bacile, you now have blood on your hands.
Morton D. check out this site:
http://www.enterprisemission.com/tower2.htm
A bit wierd but interesting.
Imam David Petraeus was another who helped to excuse Muslims for doing this kind of thing and to lay the groundwork for all this.
“I condemn the action of the individual in the United States who burned a copy of the Holy Qur’an. That action was hateful. It was intolerant, and it was extremely disrespectful. I condemn the actions of a small number of individuals who have been extremely disrespectful to the Holy Qur’an”
- from David “In: Holy Qur’an, Out: First Amendment and his oath to the United States Constitution” Petraeus
Are John “Bats” McCain and Marco “The Boy Blunder” Rubio still in love with their Libyan “Rebel” heroes?
37. eggplant
Here’s an article about finding workers for Alberta. Looks like Northern Romania and others are doing their part but Alberta boom projects have quality control problems.
Among the occupations in most demand are heavy-duty mechanics, truck drivers, welders, electricians, rig labourers, field supervisors, petroleum technologists.
Note that all these people need to be able to read, write and do arithmetic – ie have a basic education. Those Chicago or Atlanta education systems whose graduates sound like carefully crafted Neanderthals, can’t compete with the education systems of Eastern Europe.
Shale boom turns North Dakota into No. 3 oil producer
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/08/us-oil-output-bakken-idUSBRE82714V20120308
March 12, 2012 Oil and Gasoline Prices By Seldon B. Graham, Jr.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/03/oil_and_gasoline_prices.html
Drill Our Way to Lower Oil Prices? Yes We Can! Posted 03/15/2012
http://news.investors.com/article/604557/201203151838/oil-prices-drop-quickly-on-talk-of-petroleum-reserve-release.htm
“Congratulations Mr. Bacile, you now have blood on your hands.”
How about you put that shoe on the other foot….I find what YOU said offensive. According to your logic, I am now justified for killing you and anyone around you and it is YOUR fault for provoking me!
The mouth breathing idiots who murder people over a movie are the ones that have blood on their hands. I note despite the fact that “Piss Christ” was highly offensive to the Christian community, the artist was left in complete safety. But that is because Christians for the most part are civilized and Islams are not.
Stop all muslim immigration. Stop all aid to muslim countries. Declare Islam a cult and not a religion, treat it accordingly.
First to Richard and the regular readers, I apologize for highjacking this thread. I am a regular “lurker” of the Belmont Club since the summer of 2004 and rarely comment, but the comments made by “Rykehaven” are so absurd and inflammatory that I can’t help myself.
@ Rykehaven #20
First, I am a Diplomatic Security special agent and have served as a Regional Security Officer and Assistant Regional Security Officer. So I take offense to your statement calling into question our abilities and willpower. Since you used some of the lingo, I infer you are familiar with us, probably a former MSG or maybe a contractor type?
So you well know that the Department of State has a chain of command and rules of engagment just like the military, of which I was also a member as are many other Diplomatic Security agents. We are still gathering information on Benghazi as the survivors of that attack are being evacuated with the remains and non-emergency staff. In regards to Cairo, the RSOs and Marine Security Guards (MSGs) (who work for the RSO) were in position following the established ROE. IF the protesters had actually tried to breach the embassy, they would have been in for a rude greeting.
I won’t discuss TTPs, but to expect a handful of DS agents and MSGs in Cairo and even fewer security types in Benghazi(no MSGs in Benghazi), to offensively engage the attackers (Benghazi) and unarmed protesters in Cairo is not tactically sound. Most “real” embassies/consulates are actually fairly good defensive positions. So in the case of Cairo, you are suggesting that the defending force to have left their sound defensive positions and engaged unarmed protesters with lethal fire? How long do you think the embassy would have remained standing after that? Sure the DS agents and MSGs would have killed many protesters, but to what long-term good? Especially with no “calvary” coming to the rescue, it would have been suicidal for the defenders and remember all their families and other Americans running around Egypt and the greater Middle East would have paid the price as well. The defenders did the right thing in sitting tight. I am not condoning the Twitter messages, but those were not issued by the RSO.
In regards to Benghazi, a very small U.S. security element which was engaged by a force 4-5 times larger and outgunned did the best they could from what little I’ve read. Reports will eventually come out about what those “cowards” did to defend themselves and the compound.
There are many cases of small U.S. military units being caught by superior forces and destroyed. It happens to the best. Don’t be so cocky and think that all DS/DoS are “bow-tie” weenies. Many of us are former military and remain just as dedicated to our country as when we wore a different uniform. If you had a bad RSO at some point in your life, I am sorry, we have our 10% just like every organization. But from my military days, there were plenty of duds there too. So next time you go spouting off about DS, remember that we aren’t as big a bunch of pu$$ies as you think we are…
As to Rubio’s support for “the Arab Spring” and regime change in Libya, I’ll count that as a rookie mistake. I hope he has learned a good lesson on speaking too soon.
#57 Liberal Troll
He then blames lax American security for the deaths of four people. I say we encourage Mr. Bacile to return to Israel (if that is his country of origin) and encourage him to spout his hate speech there. … Congratulations Mr. Bacile, you now have blood on your hands.
What is “hate speech”? One cannot intrinsically know another’s motivations for “speech” unless he can read minds.
Second, unless Mr. Bacile was in the crowd of Muslims, he certainly has no blood on his hands. The murders are guilty, no matter how “offended” they were at something or another, they MURDERED the four Americans because of the blood lust intrinsic to their being and character as Muslims. Mr. Bacile is blameless.
Third, American security was clearly “lax” by definition. It failed to protect the American assets it was targeted to protect. However, that’s not quite correct, as others have pointed out. American security was largely unused. There were no Alamo like “last stands” by US Marines. The Embassies were left undefended in accord with EXECUTIVE POLICY! America has the resources to defend and protect Americans at it’s Embassies overseas. The current CHIEF EXECUTIVE Obama and his appointed deputy, Clinton, devised flawed policy which provided an inadequate defense for deployed U.S. assets. But of course, that objective, verifiable FACT would indict the left’s great black hope, Mr. Obama, so blame must be deflected to those who like Romney or Bacile who were not present, and held no authority or responsibility for Embassy security.
Finally, the problem with “hate speech” as used by the political left, is that it’s used as a pejorative to silence those who speak an objective, historical TRUTH that the left simply cannot abide, and a TRUTH that leftists would redefine into falsehood to save their own corrupt world view, if only they could.
Mr. Bacile has the HUMAN right to speak his mind, and let his words be judged on their own merit. I suggest YOU, Mr. Liberal Troll, find another country to inhabit, because your leftist, statist philosophy is incompatible with the liberal world view that created the “land of the free, home of the brave”.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/10/exclusive-jailed-doc-who-helped-nail-bin-laden-warns-us-seen-as-pakistan-worst/
While OT…
This interview is MUST reading.
It needs to get into the electoral campaign.
Bacile day…
It may be a turning moment.
Romney’s feelings about the movie are meaningless at this moment. He raised the issue of free speech as paramount and this should be reinforced in light of violence driven by the rage and objective to suppress speech. “The overriding issue is the right of free speech — all speech — and the indissoluble right of this among free people and the unyielding defense of this right by our government.” THAT’S what he should have said. Saying he abhors the message of the movie is a classic weasel move to have it both ways. The timing especially screams of an effort to escape the heat incurred by his original position. It reeks of the Romney caricature (and of the assembly-line politician) we all know — of the man internally incapable of taking a position and sticking with it but instead operating on a pretense of brave Reagan-esque leadership only to INFALLIBLY falter or flip. I don’t want this to be true. But he just can’t stop being who he is.
“There’s no room for religious hatred or intolerance“? Weasel words. Worse — words used in the name of censorship by every college campus tyrant in America. “Hatred” according to whom? Judged how? Because savages riot? That’s your criteria for hate? Jeezus, man.
“There is no place for hate or intolerance” is platitudinous pabulum used by every equivocator and waffler and ultimate sell-out to speech codes who ever walked the planet. And furthermore, he’s wrong. There is a time and place for intolerance.
@Brutus 57: What a stupid and wretched assumption, that murder and betrayal are appropriate responses to being offended. If we all adopted that thinking, we’ll all be bowing toward Mecca by this time next year, or the survivors will anyway. Anti-Islamic movies, books, cartoons etc. have been produced for years and this “offense” was a mere excuse. The Egyptian militants who yelled, “We are all Osama” yesterday told the true story.
@69
If you don’t hate evil your brain is already dead. Mr. Romney proves the point that blind (or even slightly myopic) trust in any politician is a fool’s errand. Lying and obfuscating are what they do.
B@57
Geez! Talk about a f’d up moral compass!
Morton, that sure does look like 9-1-1 arching over the rest of the writing.
When I didn’t see the sentence: “I have sent a message out to every Marine embassy guard commander in the world that from this day forward, their rules of engagement are to shoot to kill, any and every person that achieves access to sovereign US territory by storming embassy walls or destroying embassy gates.” I knew the fascist, nutless wonder is still in charge of the asylum. We don’t need to ‘understand’ them. They’ve made quite clear what they’re about over the last 1400 or so years. I (hopefully) thought these incompetent bastages had learned their lesson in ’79. I see I was mistaken. If Carter had made the rubble bounce in Tehran for 40 days and 40 nights we wouldn’t be seeing this. And he might have managed a 2d term. Guess there’s a silver lining in every cloud…but at what cost?
@57. Brutus
By your logic when The Islamic Republic of Iran refers to the United States of America we would be justified in turning the Iranian cities into glass lined craters. This is an act of war. In the day of nuclear weapons nations do NOT have the luxury of starting wars over perceived insults.
32. Dr. Mabuse & 7. Morton D
It is my understanding that al Qaeda chose September 11th because it is the anniversary date of the Battle of Vienna, Sept 11-12 1683. This was the high-water mark of Islam’s first incursion into European Christendom. After that it was gradual erosion of what had been gained.
“That which we are about to receive, we thank thee, O Lord.”
- Mose Harper “The Searchers”
(Note: Hank Worden who played Mose was a Stanford trained Engineer.)
Jatah 61,
Thank you for your comment. There can be sound tactical reasons to draw a distinction between the essential area and the symbolic. The first includes the secure area where staff take refuge and where classified material is processed for destruction in extremis. The second includes the courtyard and the flagpole. We should respond vigorously to the insult to our flag but how to do so to our advantage is a decision that should not rest with the sergeant in charge of the Marine Security Detachment. The Benghazi consulate was indefensible.
The criticism is best focused on those who failed to evacuate and prepare reinforcements in a timely manner. Events often ferment over time and then erupt with startling speed. In this case a fair evaluation may be that there was enough reason to be better prepared in advance.
Who will be assigned the role of Admiral Kimmel in this debacle? Will the blame fall on the dead ambassador? He at least cannot be fired. Should the blame fall on the Secretary of State and the POTUS?
Would we serve our interests best by leveling Benghazi or by leveling Abadan or Isfahan?
The closest thing to a proper definition for “Islamophobia” that I have been able to come up with is the fear on the part of Muslims and their auxiliaries that the truth will be told about that vile barbaric crime against humanity that is Islam, and it’s founder, Muslim’s “Perfect Man”, the mass murdering, thieving, hating, torturing, enslaving, camel urine drinking, child raping sadistic pervert, the Monster who Walked the Earth, called Mohammad. My definition is certainly far more accurate than theirs, hands down.
There has been much speculation here about the ROE of the Marines at Benghazi.
Well we can put that discussion to bed.
According to Ace, there were no Marines at Benghazi. No Marines, No Security. Ain’t that nice.
The person who has blood on their hands here, Brutus the nutjob, is our Dear Leader Buraq Hussein.
67. blert, that is an interesting interview.
In light of their treachery, I think we should cut off all aid to Pakistan, declare a free and independent Balochistan, and install a permanent fleet presence in the deep water port of Gwadar – after which we can decide what, if anything, to do with Afghanistan. But we should not continue deluding ourselves about who is the enemy.
We might also finally demand that the Saudis stop funding the madrassas that continue to inculcate Salafist Wahhabism into the minds of impressionable children. TIME magazine noted and, to its credit, reported the connection between Saudi funding, the madrassas, and Islamic terrorism in its first issue published after the first 9/11.
“Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” Proverbs 22:6
64. Jatah
@ Rykehaven #20
[…]
I won’t discuss TTPs, but to expect a handful of DS agents and MSGs in Cairo and even fewer security types in Benghazi(no MSGs in Benghazi), to offensively engage the attackers (Benghazi) and unarmed protesters in Cairo is not tactically sound. Most “real” embassies/consulates are actually fairly good defensive positions.
You do a good impression of using straw-men like an RSO trying to talk down to a Marine detachment officer. Either that, or you lack basic reading comprehension skills:
“42. Rykehaven
That procedure along with others makes manpower tight, and to defend the interior against a mob, let alone the entire compound, let alone the entire embassy grounds… to say nothing of the fact that an Ambassador will always procrastinate until what he thinks is the last second before releasing discretionary authority to a Marine Sergeant…. Which by then is too late.”
I am well aware that the tactical situation is unfavorable once a position is overrun, especially given the DoSs’ ROE’s. It’s too late – and being overrun, mind you, is always a failure of leadership because not much positive control can be maintained afterewards. It’s not even worth listing the basic inventory of an embassy’s armory; they might as well be stage props with the manner and weapon condition in which they are employed.
They are stage props, and that too is a failure of leadership.
Your leadership.
Don’t talk like an idjiot; This is not about the tactical situation once a mob gets to the last line of defense – and we both know it. This has to do with the penetration of the layered defenses before it ever gets that far. Even an RSO like you should be vaguely aware (don’t quote me on that) that the first few layers of defense do, indeed, extend well beyond the embassy grounds. It is less about “defensive positions” as you insist, and more about “maintenance”. It’s not about your EED handlers, your Jersey barricades disguised as planters/benches/bollards or even the deflection and LoS of your lighting, landscaping and Closed-circuit cameras whose frame rates are queud by motion (although it’s bad enough for these to be breached without firing a shot).
It’s about the all-important First layer of defense. Any military officer can gauge the state of this First layer when he’s talking to an MIO detainee on the high seas, or a subject at a checkpoint in a contiguous area, or the local atmosphere during patrols.
How do you gauge the state of this First line of defense at an embassy? By looking at the body language of the local guard forces during Colors. By looking at the sideways glances of the nearby shopkeepers. You can feel it by the way the wind dies down as you approach the embassy. You can see it in the architecture and cleanliness of the embassy itself.
It’s supposed to say: “Don’t open this can of wup-a$$”.
So – of course – what do you and your FSO friends do?
You mindlessly debase this professional currency; you empty out your own can of wup-a$$.
When Marines try to stop the local trash from vandalizing the embassy signposts, you FSO’s reprimand the Marines with your self-righteous lectures. When the protesters burn the Stars and Stripes near and even on the embassy grounds, you berate the Marines that there’s nothing they can or should do, and to leave it to the guards and local police – who do nothing and arrest nobody. When the locals call for the heads of US Military personnel on even the flimsiest of excuses, you do everything you can to facilitate their injunctions (SOFA be damned). You don’t even stand up for your own senior personnel who are canned on the sole evidence of the made-up scribblings of a Japanese student.
Some of the local MSG detachments spill the tidbits from time to time. There’s a lot to choose from, so don’t blame them for it.
And when everyone (except you) realizes that the embassy is run by clowns and your bluff is called? When your First layer of defense disintegrates and the enemy realizes that you’ve neutered not just yourselves but also the Marines? They storm the compound, burn the flag, drag American bodies through the streets, and raise an enemy flag above the parapets to signal “Open Season”.
And what do you FSO’s do? You throw up your hands, look at the huddling MSG under a craven Ambassador/RSO/DoS command trapped like rats in their own embassy, and tell yourselves “We did a good job” and “It couldn’t be helped”.
This is the quality of your leadership in the DoS.
It sucks.
64. Jatah
So in the case of Cairo, you are suggesting that the defending force to have left their sound defensive positions and engaged unarmed protesters with lethal fire? How long do you think the embassy would have remained standing after that?
You mean? Once you forfeited the First layer of your own defense?
Yes, and you don’t even need to leave “sound defensive positions” to pick off enemies who are scaling your walls, unless the embassy architecture and zonal landscaping/fortifications are so badly designed that they don’t allow for its walls to be defended properly (and they’re not “protesters” you dumba$$). If you can’t defend a properly constructed fortification, you’re not in a “sound defensive position”, are you?
And as for your chicken-little about “unarmed protesters”?
News-flash: everybody in the combat-arms community is aware that a “civilian” who doesn’t have a visible weapon is still fair game once he crosses a zonal, multi-layered defense. That is taught in every combat-oriented training from the Army’s Infantry School to the Navy’s FEPs.
And sometimes, training gets used in combat.
An Iranian civilian airliner that tries to penetrate a Tico’s defense perimeter is dead. A civilian vehicle that speeds towards an Army checkpoint in Iraq is dead. A civilian in the trajectory of a projectile that over-penetrates through a wall may or may not have been an enemy, but is nonetheless dead . It happens. And a Marine need not wait until his back is against the wall to fire as you suggest.
And an angry mob that tries to bum-rush the embassy gate? If you don’t want to take the blame for Marines who “kill innocent civilians” [spit], then get out of their way and turn over command to someone more appropriate. That’ll CYA ya, you don’t have to take responsibility.
It’s combat, A$$hole.
Every Soldier, Sailor and Marine is given fair warning: “If once you lose your professional credibility, it’s going to be hell to get it back.” (You were in the Military? As what? A cook? No, your bellyaching is a disgrace to cooks, seriously)
What do you think the Marine embassy detachment was for to begin with? Before the DoS started rewriting their curriculum and turned the school into the abomination that is the MCESG? Do you think they were meant to be FSO hood ornaments in cool looking uniforms? They were meant to be 0300. They were meant to come out of SOI and MSCF. They were meant to be commanded by a real Field-grade officer, not an SSG who lacked the authority over his own unit and too often deferred to an expensive, but cheap imitation of a Marine.
In other words, Not you.
The Marine “garrisons” at the embassies were originally meant to be just that: Garrisons. They were tasked with doing the dirty work that RSO’s like you are clearly unwilling and incapable of doing.
But no, you DoS types have to insert yourselves into security matters that you are unfit to manage. And all you’ve done is neuter the Marines and turned them into MSG versions of yourself. And in doing so, you’ve neutered your only trump card when the SHTF.
So when your bluff is called (and it has been called numerous times already) what card do you play?
The “It’s America’s fault” Card?
64. Jatah
In regards to Benghazi, a very small U.S. security element which was engaged by a force 4-5 times larger and outgunned did the best they could from what little I’ve read. Reports will eventually come out about what those “cowards” did to defend themselves and the compound.
Let me ask you something: Who are you trying to convince?
Do you know about the HMS Cornwall incident? No?
Well, the VBSS team and the Royal Marines of the Cornwall were captured by the Iranians while visiting an Indian merchant ship. When they were released from captivity, they were heralded as heroes by the British who blamed the US Military for the incident.
But everyone in the US combat-arms community and especially MIO – and particularly the Iranians – understood the reality, in spite of the British theatrics.
It was noted at the time by the media that the British were captured without a shot fired. It was also noted that their behavior did not befit any semblance of what we call the “Code of Conduct”. Most of that may not apply to the Egyptian embassy personnel since they haven’t been technically captured, unless they were truly imprisoned in their own embassy and you take into account the statements made by Ambassador Patterson (are those statements cowardly enough, or do you intend to one-up her?).
But there are two main points that MIO personnel mention about the Cornwall that never showed up in the media:
(A) The Iranians had been kidnapping European and British personnel regularly; the British in particular had long lost their professional credibility as soldiers and should never have been involved in OIF or even MIO in theater.
(B) The Captain of the Cornwall failed to issue orders for “Batteries release”. Not just to the VBSS and RM, but to his own ship-board gunnery that was covering his teams on the merchant vessel. There was an enormous window where the Iranian “boghammers” hadn’t yet reached the vessel, while being well within the effective range of his main gun and eventually his 20mm’s (to say nothing of the helo). Instead, he forfeited every one of the Cornwall’s trump cards, his position relative to the Indian vessel, his vector approach, his helo, the high-calibre weaponry of his ship, all of it in favor of CYA. And his crewmen ended up being outgunned and surrounded by Iranians when it should have been the other way around.
The CO choked when the moment demanded he take action. And the VBSS and RM teams, to be honest, similarly let their crew and Captain down by getting captured. Their job should have been to exfil off the boarded vessel to buy time and allow for a clean shot at their assailants – or fight. Instead, they became hostages to be used against their own crew.
They disgraced themselves, their crew and their country.
This is the true face of cowardice, confirmed and acknowledged everywhere amongst trigger-pullers. And the funny thing is that as much as the British try to convince DAS civilians otherwise, the most important people of all, the enemy, are unconvinced.
You want to ask me if I’m calling the Embassy personnel, its CO/ambassador and even the MSG “cowards”?
Fine. I admit it’s crossed my mind. And anybody else who claims it hasn’t crossed their’s is either lying or a fool.
But your real problem has nothing to do with me or anybody else reading these blog comments.
The fact is: like the British, you are still trying to fake it with theatrics. The truth is that your professional credibility “Man-card” got pulled long ago…not by me, and not even by the rest of the US military. It got pulled by the enemy. The worst part about all this is that you still don’t seem to realize it, and you likely never will. Because you and your ilk think you can still go on like this.
Which leads me back to the original question: Who are you trying to convince?
Because the people you need to convince are dancing all over you.
Literally.
64. Jatah
Many of us are former military and remain just as dedicated to our country as when we wore a different uniform.
I am well aware that some of the DoS personnel are former military. I am also aware that many of you couldn’t hack it and chose clean, mite-less sheets, hot showers, fine drink and warm food. Your one saving grace was a propensity to keep your noses clean (or brown). And that’s not a compliment. There are Marines who join MSG to lower their score and get their tickets punched. It blows my mind that a Marine with 36 months of MSG duty can get promoted over Marines with 3 or more tours in Iraq. Yes, it gets you promoted but it’s certainly not that highly regarded, quite the opposite, the most severe contrast being McMaster (who couldn’t get promoted to save his life because he didn’t kiss up to DoS and “jointness”) vs Petraeus (the DoS/CIA love-child brown-noser).
64. Jatah
So next time you go spouting off about DS, remember that we aren’t as big a bunch of pu$$ies as you think we are…
Buzz. Off.
77. Blast From the Past
Who will be assigned the role of Admiral Kimmel in this debacle? Will the blame fall on the dead ambassador? He at least cannot be fired. Should the blame fall on the Secretary of State and the POTUS?
This is getting comical.
You do realize that the Department driving the prosecution of Admiral Kimmel was the same Department that lobbied the American People on behalf of Japanese interests, right?
After Pearl Harbor, however, this same Department had to deflect attention away from its prior advocacy for Japan and looked for a scapegoat in the “other” Department. The flunkies were also the lead agency in the run-up to Pearl Harbor, criticizing the American build-up of arms on behalf of “Peace” and politically undermining any action that might be construed as “provocative” to Japan.
Pop Quiz: Name this Department.
Hint: It’s not the Department of War or Navy. Thank God Nimitz had the stature to tell the Do- to buzz off and leave Kimmel alone.