VBO
Even as the Russia and the Western allies face off over Syria and its ally Iran, with all the appearance of being rivals, or even enemies, the Administration is pursuing an agreement with Moscow to help defend Europe against missiles launched by its ally — Iran. In March of this year Reuters reported:
The Obama administration is leaving open the possibility of giving Moscow certain secret data on U.S. interceptor missiles due to help protect Europe from any Iranian missile strike.
Ruslan Pukhov of the Moscow Times explains why America needs something from Russia. “Unlike the United States, Russia continues to improve and develop its limited missile defense system, which is permitted under the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. The country’s missile defense capability consists of the A-135 missile defense system based in the Moscow region. The system includes a powerful radar system and 68 deployed 53T6 short-range missile interceptors that are armed with nuclear warheads. ” More importantly, Russia continued to build up its radar systems.
As a result of these measures, Russia will have a powerful and advanced missile-attack early warning system in a few years — a system that is geographically close to the countries that Washington believes could launch an attack against the United States or its allies. This means that the United States could be interested in some form of cooperation with Russia — at the very least, on missile launch early warning systems.
So the Russians proposed a deal. Tell us how your interceptors work and we’ll let you know when the Iranians are coming. The administration was willing to consider it. But today the obstructive Republican controlled House voted to prevent the Administration from “sharing classified information about U.S. missile defense technology with Russia”.
According to the Reuters report, the Russians sought very specific data on the velocity of American interceptors, notably a parameter named VBO.
No decision has been made yet on whether the United States would offer data about the interceptors’ “velocity at burnout,” or VBO, said Air Force Lieutenant Colonel April Cunningham, the spokeswoman, but it is not being ruled out.
VBO is at the heart of what Russia wants as the price for its cooperation, said Riki Ellison, head of the private Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance, who has close ties to missile defense and military officials.
VBO tells how fast an interceptor is going when its rocket-booster motor fuel is spent and the motor burns out.
With VBO and certain other technical data, Moscow could more readily develop countermeasures and strategies to defeat the system and transfer the information to others, Ellison said.
In putting forward the ban on information transfer, Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) explained that “he proposed it as a reaction to the hot-mic conversation between President Obama and then-Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, in which he said he would have more flexibility on the issue of U.S. involvement in European missile defense after the November election”.
Democrats let the amendment go without a fight, although Rep. Norm Dicks (D-Wash.) said he saw it as harmless given the unlikelihood that Obama would share classified information with Russia.
“We don’t have any problem with this amendment,” Dicks said. “I would be very surprised if the administration would give any classified information to the Russian government.”
Of course the President would never do that. Earlier this year, there was concern over a similar issue — “a series of intelligence leaks to the press in recent weeks, culminating with a New York Times story published last week that detailed a covert U.S. cyberattack against Iran, in which anonymous U.S. officials were cited as sources. Members of Congress have also condemned other recent stories about Obama’s ‘kill list,’ the expanded U.S. drone program and a double agent in Yemen.”
This culminated in the appointment by Eric Holder of two US attorneys to investigate the possible leakage of state secrets. But President Obama hotly contested allegations that his administration was releasing national security information for political advantage.
“The notion that the White House would purposely release classified national security information is offensive, it’s wrong, and people, I think, need to have a better sense of how I approach this office and how the people around me approach this office,” he said.
“We are dealing with issues that can touch on the safety and security of the American people — our families or our military or our allies — and so we don’t play with that.”
And with that assurance the nation can rest easy.
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interesting that, the russians being the russians, they wouldnt already have this information, or be able to infer it or to have observed it by whatever means during our various tests. i wonder whether somehow this isnt a red herring, which would of course be business as usual in any case.
1. dan
If yur supposition is true, then the Russians are playing a power game on Obama, to see if, once again, they can turn him into a submissive puppy.
Wanna bet Buraq sells us out anyway a la immigration reform and welfare reform. Buraq don’t need no stinkin’
Constitution to constrain him. The opportunity to severely damage America’s defense capability is probably just too great a score for a malignant narcissist/fellow traveler like Buraq to pass up.
When you cooperate with rivals or potential enemies, you never put them on the critical path. Being friendly towards Russia is not the same as relying on them to control the logistics lines to the army in Afghanistan or becoming a critical part of the Missile Defense shield.
There are lots of people in the world that you are probably friends with, or at least not the enemy of who you do not supply with the key to your front door or your ATM pin number.
The tendency of the administration to “partner for peace” with countries whose interests may not only not coincide but being opposition to Americas constitutes a slogan without coherent thought. It’s a sound bite without any meaning. “I will partner for peace!” is only slightly more cogent than “I’ll walk a mile for a Camel.”
But the voters bought it. And until the next election, Russia is America’s partner for peace in the never ending search for a World Without Nuclear Weapons. That was a bridge too far. It would have been better I think, if one had simply been content to remain at peace with them.
The Obama Admin gutted the Bush Admin’s planned missile defenses for Europe, first saying that there was no way Iran would develop a capability anytime soon. Then, after the Iranians orbited a satellite they decided that it would have to prceed, but Russian objections would require that we modify the system.
By the way, the modifications gutted the radar capability.
Now here come the Russians, striped coats, black shirts, and wide yellow ties, with a toothpick at a jaunty angle, saying “Nice little missile defense system ya got here. Be a shame if somethin’ was to happen to it. Gonna make ya an offer ya can’t refuse.”
Obama is being offered a Chicago Deal, 1920′s style.
we’ll let you know when the Iranians are coming?
… The radar base in Qatar is slated to house a powerful AN/TPY-2 radar, also known as an X-Band radar, and supplement two similar arrays already in place in Israel’s Negev Desert and in central Turkey, officials said. Together, the three radar sites form an arc that U.S. officials say can detect missile launches from northern, western and southern Iran. Those sites will enable U.S. officials and allied militaries to track missiles launched from deep inside Iran, which has an arsenal of missiles capable of reaching Israel and parts of Europe. Intelligence agencies believe Iran could have a ballistic missile as early as 2015 that could threaten the U.S.
The radar installations in turn are being linked to missile-interceptor batteries throughout the region and to U.S. ships with high-altitude interceptor rockets. The X-Band radar provides images that can be used to pinpoint rockets in flight.
” although Rep. Norm Dicks (D-Wash.) said he saw it as harmless given the unlikelihood that Obama would share classified information with Russia.
“We don’t have any problem with this amendment,” Dicks said. “I would be very surprised if the administration would give any classified information to the Russian government.””
Willfull blindness on Dicks’ part.
Or maybe we’d love to have Russia sitting there waiting on our data feed.
There’s a chance for some excellent game-playing here, maybe we shouldn’t entirely reject it out of hand.
Josh, you have got to be kidding. The implication in your comment is that we can trust the Obama Administration. Excuse me while I barf.
Wow, they’ve stolen our Dr. Strangelove BOMARC Missile idea, but BOMARCs were long range, not designed to detonate Nukes over our heads!
Site of Bomarc Missile accident
A BOMARC nuclear air defense missile in ready storage condition
(permitting launch in two minutes)
…interesting comments!
Please tell me he can’t call Pootie Poot Directly on the Red Phone and read it to him!
OT:
John Kass pens the best article of this election cycle!
I knew he had it in him, I had no idea what the specifics would be.
Who else, Mr. President?
John Kass
July 18, 2012
When President Barack Obama hauled off and slapped American small-business owners in the mouth the other day, I wanted to dream of my father.
But I didn’t have to close my eyes to see my dad. I could do it with my eyes open.
All I had to do was think of the driveway of our home, and my dad’s car gone before dawn, that old white Chrysler with a push-button transmission. It always started, but there was a hole in the floor and his feet got wet in the rain. So he patched it with concrete mix and kept on driving it to the little supermarket he ran with my Uncle George.
He’d return home long after dark, physically and mentally exhausted, take a plate of food, talk with us for a few minutes, then flop in that big chair in front of the TV. Even before his cigarette was out, he’d begin to snore.
The next day he’d wake up and do it again. Day after day, decade after decade. Weekdays and weekends, no vacations, no time to see our games, no money for extras, not even for McDonald’s. My dad and Uncle George, and my mom and my late Aunt Mary, killing themselves in their small supermarket on the South Side of Chicago…
Protection Racket:
One of my earliest memories as a boy at the store was that of the government men coming from City Hall. One was tall and beefy. The other was wiry. They wanted steaks.
We didn’t eat red steaks at home or yellow bananas. We took home the brown bananas and the brown steaks because we couldn’t sell them. But the government men liked the big, red steaks, the fat rib-eyes two to a shrink-wrapped package. You could put 20 or so in a shopping bag.
“Thanks, Greek,” they’d say.
That was government…
This is not news, its just know facts being brought into the sun light again, the problem is those that care are massively out numbered by those who willfully remain ignorant and wantingly turn a blind eye to what the Demoncrats and 0bama have and are doing… problem is Mitt won’t have the gonad’s to stand tall.
Anyone remember this?
“Obama sells out U.K. to Russia despite his popularity there”
Read more:
http://www.sfexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/02/obama-sells-out-uk-russia-despite-his-popularity-there
So our very on “Josh” is really a member of congress from the sixth district in Washington state? Could going, Norm.
VBO: Velociraptor Barack Obama
Barack Obama muses aloud to Joe Biden about the missile shield deal with Russia and about life after high school.
I’ve got a little secret that I promised not to tell
But here’s a chance to work real hard for peace
We’ve got this missile shield defense I promised not to sell
But Putin said he’d gladly sign a lease
It strengthens us because he said that he would tell us when
Iran was leading up to some no good
But dammit Joe I hate to ask that damn Congress again
It seems my every act’s misunderstood
The Constitution’s in my way so bad I want to scream
The House is now the enemy’s front line
I’ve only got six months or less to realize my dream
Of taking over here and make it mine
When I got out of high school I knew all there was to know
About my life and how it would turn out
I followed the prescription that my mentors said would grow
Into great fame and fortune without doubt
It all came true as you well know, and here we are today
Two men as unalike as two could be
You sit here listening without a single word to say
And that is how a man like you should be
Subservient, a little dumb, and goofy too at times
Vice presidents are meant to act as foils
While I took flight with Ayers and Wright who helped with ladder climbs
While you just sit and watch while kettle boils
I’m king of all that I survey, and women show me love
My smile and face surround me as I move
The New York Times thinks I’ve been sent by Gaia god above
And Joe, I feel I’ve nothing left to prove
I’m glad we’ve had this little talk, I treasure your advice
I’m giving Putin everything he wants
The data, specs, and all he needs, and Joe, I got my price
But you won’t understand ‘cause you’re a dunce
u @ 9: Josh, you have got to be kidding. The implication in your comment is that we can trust the Obama Administration. Excuse me while I barf.
What I’m saying is the Russians have small reason to trust him either.
A traitor is a danger to both sides.
Maybe it would be nice to share.
Using nukes on an anti missile missile doesn’t work very well. The first nuke sets off an EMP that blocks the RADAR. That Radar cannot find any following missile.
The Russian want to know VBO so they can set up their warheads to maneuver. After burn out the velocity and direction (vector) of the Anti-missile missile cannot change. So a black box on the warhead can calculate how to avoid the AMM. Not sure how well that will work since doctrine for anti-missile defense is shoot-shoot-look. That means missiles are fired in pairs, just in case the first one misses. Plus the Standard 3 is fast enough to catch some of the older Soviet ICBM’s during boost phase. That means ALL the warheads are still in their bus (That is the device the actual warheads are carried in. Most ICBM’s carry multiple warheads).
This is critical for the Russians. Right now the USA can fly a B-2 over Moscow whenever it wants to. Nothing the Russians can do to prevent it. B-2′s were designed to Carry nukes.
So America has an unstoppable delivery system for nukes as well as a defense against ICBM’s with an 82% success rate. Did I mention that Russians take paranoia to new levels? They imbibe it with their mothers milk. They are no doubt very twitchy about the USA being able to turn Moscow into a glowing crater and them not being able to stop it or even reply in kind. GOOD!
“Maybe it would be nice to share.”
Josh, I’m thinking maybe share means something different to you. What this all tells me is that the Russians have decoupled Henry the K’s linkage. Linkage was the idea that Soviet behaviour in Syria should affect America’s behaviour in Europe.
That always made sense to me. How can Russia be an ally on one side of the planet and an enemy on the other side?
Since Russia has nothing the USA needs or wants, How can we share? Looks more like a give away to me.
@17 (stoicheion) It is possible to detect a B-2 in flight, but not likely. It takes high technology and a lot of computer power. Russia is one of the few countries with the resources to do so.
On the other hand, why should the US send an intercontinental bomber to (as you say) Moscow loaded with nukes in the first place? Are you trying to start a war?
We don’t need to help the Russians on this. If they want to kill our missile shield for Eastern Europe, they are welcome to use their own. I say let the GOP continue to block Barry from submitting to Putin yet again.
LOL. I think Josh means that if they believe your supplied data, they’ve got to wonder if it’s real or not. I suppose the Russians have to know about 95% of what they are asking for just so they can verify the supplied data against the known. Then they can believe the 5% — to a certain degree. Otherwise they get the Missile That Never Was.
s @ 18: I’m thinking maybe share means something different to you.
I meant to share the pleasures of Obama with the Russians, sorry for any ambiguity, since it might also suggest sharing information, bogus and/or real, which I guess is also implied.
Then maybe he’ll pull a Paul Robeson, go over there and we’ll have the new tragic story of Oh Bama.
Do bombers any more carry bombs anywhere near over their targets? Even smart gravity bombs now glide twenty miles from release points, give them a little engine and they go 100 or more, give each bomb a big engine and it cruises in by itself while the bomber stays home.
“@17 (stoicheion) It is possible to detect a B-2 in flight, but not likely”
Yes, from the rear in about a 3 degree arc at a range of < 4 Km's. Or visually depending on how good the pilots eyes are. The B-2 is an all wing design. While its "official" altitude is 60,000 feet the actual altitude is half again as much. They use something like the fuel the SR-71 used to get enough oxygen. The MiG-25 holds the Soviet altitude record at something like 75,000 feet. The current Russian fighters are not good for much over 60,000, which is why the USA Air Force list 60,000 ft. as the max altitude for almost all it's fighter aircraft.
So that poor Flanker pilot struggling along at 60,000 ft., trying to avoid compressor stall while keeping lift in air too thin to get good pressure has to be able to spot a small exhaust flame 3 km's away while looking for F-22's. Not in the real world.
Plus the real bonus with stealth is how much it increases the effectiveness of normal counter-EW techniques. I seriously doubt that any missile radar can get a lock. Even if they did, the return would be so weak it would be easy to steer the missile away.
So our 'New Soviet Man' has to close to gun range, which will give the F-22 a nice shot with a Sidewinder.
While nuking Moscow isn't all that good an idea ( Have you seen some of the nini's they crank out?) It might become necessary. It would be a shame to waste that many party gyrls. Here is a snapshot of reasonably current Russian culture;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnf5Eoc5YkI&feature=related
You might want to turn the sound down. Unless you have a good set of cans. Then it sounds better loud.
Josh, there is the JSOW at 74 Km’s for a high altitude drop, JSSAM which is a stealthy missile with a 1,000 Km range plus the good old reliable ALCM. The best detection range of Russian RADAR has been calculated at 10Km’s. So we can kill them before they know we are there. Always a good thing.
RWE 5,
Good call. If we let the Russians play this game then they will demand “A Piece of the Action.”
s @ 22: best detection range of Russian RADAR has been calculated at 10Km’s.
Yeah but the thing is, Moscow is more than 10km from the border.
We really need to make (at least some of) these things supersonic – as Russia already has done with theirs.
Hypersonic strike is a cute idea, but it turns out it’s harder than it looks, and fiercely expensive, basically a Minuteman MIRV warhead full of cement, must cost $100m per. These hypersonic gliders and scramjets – ain’t working yet. Maybe someday.
–
Getting back somewhere near the topic, seems to me the Russian character is such that if we *did* send them all true and accurate data – and descriptions of all the systems it came from – they STILL might not believe it. Of course we seldom open the kimono like that even to our best allies. Putin is such a pain, I’d welcome the opportunity to lie like crazy to him. It’d be a silly game, but some good might eventually come of it, one way or another.
Both Russia and the USA have a common interest in curbing groups like AQ and we cooperate in this campaign.
America has no fundamental interests in Syria-apart from protecting the 16% Christian population.
We will stay out of the Syrian civil war-wisely
If Russia wants to provide adult supervision-fine
Our main concern is our domestic economy and jobs
We need to focus upon American fundamental interests
“Yeah but the thing is, Moscow is more than 10km from the border.”
Josh, you are thinking 2 dimensions. Think 3. Detection range of a radar is a function of it’s ability to sort signal from clutter. EM waves never stop, they attenuate. Marconi’s first Radio transmission is still going. It’s about 115 light years away now. You can’t hear it anymore because the universe is full of EM radiation. That is the static you hear between stations on your radio. A return is static until it is sorted out from the background. Range of a radar is determined by it’s circuitry more then the power.
Detection range is not a circle on a map, but a bowl on that map. A B-2 can fly directly over a radar and still be out of range. Above range would be a better term. We didn’t have that luxury back in the old days.
I think that’s 4 for me.
Now that 0bumbler and the clown posse are busy in Syria, I expect trouble on the other side of the planet. There is a reason why for decades the USA kept a military big enough to fight on both sides of the planet at the same time. The clown posse is about to get a refresher on that. N. Korea or the South China Sea.
Oh well, my grandfather told me that if you hit a donkey upside the head with a 2 by 4 often enough, the donkey would figure it out. Not sure the clown posse is that smart.
Haji can’t shoot.
“Unlike the United States, Russia continues to improve and develop its limited missile defense system”
This lil’ ole housewife says, WTH !!!!
Facepalm.
Men, how did it come to this ?
The 0bama-Holder team doesn’t seem to care about selling critical defense equipment to China (See extract below). The 0bama team has a nasty habit of selling-out the security of America and her allies.
If the 0bama-Holder-Clinton team had a bigger deal with the Russians the result would lead to a whole sale transfer of classified data.
When caught, the 0bama-Holder-Clinton team would then go into full spin-mode. They would give a slap on the wrist to a prearranged fall guy and publish a transparent excuse in the Op-ed pages of the NTY to cover their seditious acts. Rinse, spin and CYA. I am glad the Pubs stopped them.
[The Atlantic]
“The Chinese helicopter that benefited from Pratt’s engines and related computer software, now in production, comes outfitted with 30 mm cannons, anti-tank guided missiles, air-to-air missiles and unguided rockets. “This case is a clear example of how the illegal export of sensitive technology reduces the advantages our military currently possesses,” …John Morton said.
“…The United States has had an embargo on military exports to China since the events in Tiananmen Square in 1989… The [P&W technology transfer] events are once again raising questions about the circumstances under which major defense contractors might be barred from government work… even for egregious lawbreaking, such as supplying armaments or related equipment to a hypothetical adversary.
“…According to the Justice Department’s statement announcing the settlement, the first batches of the Z10 attack helicopter were delivered to the People’s Liberation Army of China in 2009 and 2010… In the end, Pratt got little more for its troubles than a federal probe [and a relatively small settlement fine of $75 million on June 28, 2012].”
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/pentagon-contractor-caught-illegally-selling-military-technology-to-china/259469/
I can’t offhand think how knowing VBO helps you much.
Also having nuclear-tipped interceptors would indicate a fairly primitive system.
Why specifically Russia?
Does that explain Hillary’s recent article “The art of smart power” in the NewStatesman? The ChiComm and us are the best of pals?
“I would be very surprised if the administration would give any classified information to the Russian government.”
Later, he was overheard saying:
“And if [the administration] did give [the Rooskies] classified information, they probably wouldn’t be able to understand it.”
Later still:
“And if they were able to understand it (just sayin’), they probably wouldn’t be able to figure out what to do with it.”
And then:
“I’m a proud Democrat. 1000% behind my president. Amazing the things he has been able to accomplish in spite of everything!! Simply amazing”
File under: Peace means having to make sacrifices….
Sometimes, when no one is around, I like to read out loud quotes from Russians in a real movie fake russian accent…
“Unlike the United States, Russia continues to improve and develop its limited missile defense system, which is permitted under the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. The country’s missile defense capability consists of the A-135 missile defense system based in the Moscow region. The system includes a powerful radar system and 68 deployed 53T6 short-range missile interceptors that are armed with nuclear warheads. ”
Then I do the same thing with quotes from guys like Norm Dicks…
“We don’t have any problem with this amendment,” Dicks said. “I would be very surprised if the administration would give any classified information to the Russian government.”
funny how they both sound the same…
To answer the question that Dan asked: Yes, Russia doubtless has ways of observing all of our tests. But when we fly a test, we aren’t necessarily flying our missiles in their highest-performance configurations. Just sayin’.
“But today the obstructive Republican controlled House voted…”
In what sort of universe would a president say, “gosh, the House voted–I must obey!” Not any universe I live in, have lived in, or even have visited temporarily.
I’m sure that immediately after the president so informs the Russians anyway, he’ll inform the House of his defiance.
Does anyone reading here at the Club have any doubt that Obama is a traitor? Really, is there anyone left who doesn’t already know that about this guy? I have absolutely no doubt that he hates both America and its white majority and will do whatever he can to injure both. I have nothing but contempt for him and wouldn’t trust him, or any other Democrat, any farther than I can throw the White House lefthanded.
America made a huge mistake in electing this individual as President. He’s one of the TWANLOC. Whether we have suffered what could be a fatal injury from his election is still open to question. If he gets a second term, the odds of that injury being fatal rise exponentially.
If he gets a second term, I suggest Club readers go long on lead, lead delivery systems, canned goods and beef jerky.