President Obama’s failed attempt to pass a resolution in the UN Security Council condemning the Assad regime’s attack on his domestic enemies in Qoms may mean that there are no more risk-free ways to both act and not to act against the government in Damascus.
In a 13-2 vote by the U.N. Security Council later on Saturday, however, Russia and China blocked a U.S.-sponsored resolution that would have backed a transition to democracy but did not call for regime change explicitly. That transition process was devised by the Arab League …
“The United States is disgusted,” U.S. Ambassador Susan Rice said of the outcome. She said the U.N. was being “held hostage” by China and Russia.
AdvertisementShe told the council that the two members would stop at nothing to “sell out the Syrian people and support a craven tyrant.”
The alternative of course, is for the United States and its allies to find some other way to move against Assad while guarding against the possibility that the successor regime may present an even greater threat to to their regional interests. That dilemma was expressed in a Foreign Policy Initiative essay.
The United States has a moral obligation to work with others to try and halt the continuing humanitarian crisis in Syria. But it also has a powerful strategic interest in seeing not only the collapse of the Assad regime, but also the emergence of a post-Assad Syria with moderate, representative government that respects human rights, upholds the rule of law, promotes stability in the Middle East, and dramatically weakens the region’s Iranian-led anti-American bloc.
The suggested options include soliciting more diplomatic condemnation from world powers — which has just failed — to supporting Syrian opposition groups, enforcing a no-fly-zone and limited retaliatory airstrikes. If all these options sound familiar, they should. I R A Q.
The principal objection to getting involved in Syria is why it should be different from Iraq. If vital US strategic interests are at stake in Syria then why was the position in Iraq so unimportant that it could almost be abandoned to Syria’s ally, Iran? Many of the very same Sunni tribes in Syria that America may have to work with are directly related to those over the border in Iraq. A cynic might say that the single most potent pressure the administration could have brought to bear on Damascus was to have kept a presence in Iraq.
But having spent a whole campaign arguing that America’s strategic fulcrum lay in Afghanistan it will be hard indeed to justify a return to the region so soon after having departed. Such a revolving door would demonstrate all too clearly the revolving mental door of the administration, an apparatus which has the virtue of permitting constant motion without making progress. The price of choking Assad is making Obama look stupid.
Yet Jackson Diehl at the Washington Post now argues that Syria has become a vortex pulling in the principal Sunni and Shi’ite powers of the region.
The central drama in Syria is now a sectarian showdown, one that has been gathering force around the region since the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Syria has precipitated a crucial test of strength between Sunnis and Shiites, and between Turkey and Iran. It has triggered existential crises for Palestinians, Kurds and the Shiite government of Iraq …
The emirates say their goal is Syrian democracy — but their motives are purely sectarian. Their target is not Assad but Iran, the Persian Shiite enemy of the Arab Sunni monarchies. Iran’s alliance with Syria, vital to its power in the Middle East, depends on a regime controlled by Assad’s minority Alawite sect, which is an offshoot of Shiite Islam.
The Arab emirates’ best ally against Iran is not the United States but the Turkish government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which is openly backing the Free Syrian Army. Erdogan, too, claims to be outraged by Assad’s brutality. But as a Sunni Islamist and the hugely ambitious leader of a rising power, he also perceives a strategic opportunity for Turkey to replace Iran as the preeminent outside influence in the former eastern provinces of the Ottoman Empire.
In that narrative Syria is important insofar because it has drawn in outside power brokers, a role reminiscent of the Spanish Civil War. The difference between historical Spain and 21st century Syria is that America has not yet decided on which side to join. Neither side is very attractive. To the argument that it would be preferable to see both sides lose [which might well have been one's attitude toward the Communists and the Fascists] the one word riposte is: geopolitics. Egypt is vital ground. That means that while there may be no good guys, it is impossible to be indifferent to who wins.
The area is too important to Europe, both in terms of proximity and energy usefulness to be ignored. And Europe is too weak to defend itself, thereby increasing the crucial reliance on America. But the administration in Washington has thrown away its best cards simply to assuage its irrational Left Wing. Now it must act after removing the wherewithal with which to act. What if it has to act anyway? The problem with pure political expediency and opportunism is that it is punished by time.
With both Russia and China standing in the path of any inexpensive response to the Syrian attacks on oppositionists the West is left with only the expensive options. The Blue Plate special is off the menu. Obama was too grand to eat it. All that is available now is stale pate de fois gras at inflated prices, chased by a half-washed mayonnaise jar containing flat champagne. It is bad food at clip-joint rates, a phrase which some historian might apply to the Obama period as a whole.
But what did they expect? Those who expected something for nothing or a Messiah from Chicago were bound to be disappointed. The bill for the sheer folly of three years of administration incompetence is coming due at once. All the easy ways out are blocked and the administration has only now noticed. What now? Does anybody know?
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Over at Spengler’s blog David P. Goldman seems to have cooled on the prospect of overthrowing Assad being such a great deal for the U.S. or Israel:
That followed a lengthy comment I made asking David what happens the day after Iran gets massively bombed by the U.S., since Panetta and virtually everyone else says Israel cannot possibly take out Iran’s nuke program on its own. How to prevent the vengeful Iranians from BUYING a Pakistani nuke, assuming we’ve deep sixed their nuke material? And what about how Pakistan reacts — will they be ‘shocked and awed’, or will they merely step up their not so covert support of terrorists as America will be confirmed in their paranoid eyes as an enemy to be fought tooth and nail?
I hope Michael Ledeen and the neocons get the memo too. The Muslim Brotherhood is bad news. And here was my reply to some smart ass:
Objectively speaking, Wretchard, there are no good guys in Syria. The choices are Assad, a secular dictator, enemy of America and ally of Iran, or the Muslum Brotherhood led oppsition, which if it takes power will create a religious dictatorship that will also be an enemy of America and may ally with Iran for its own convenience. The best possible outcome, by far, would be for both sides to exhuast themselves in a nice, long, bloody civil war that will leave Syria too weak to be a worthwhile Iranian ally for years to come. So, if Assad is winning, help the opposition. IF the opposition is winning, help Assad, and in that manner let them go at it for as long as possible.
Its the policy Cardinal Richelieu followed for France during the 30 years war, and it worked fine. In any case, what else can Obama realistically do at this point? His defence cuts have effectively deprived the US of an effective military option; Europe is helpless, China and Russia will not help; and he has already alienated the government of Israel. Economic sanctions are worthless with China and Russia willing to break them.
As for Iran, the government of Iran is already on record stating it plans to destroy the US as soon as possible. Countries that say “death to America” at every parliment meeting should be taken at their word. And since the Iranian facilities are far too well protected for conventional weapons the only realistic choice is to wait to be attacked or nuclear preemption. Obama will not premempt, of course. So when we lose a city or more to Iranian nukes, at least everyone will know who to blame.
“Yet Jackson Diehl at the Washington Post now argues that Syria has become a vortex pulling in the principal Sunni and Shi’ite powers of the region.”
Another Sarajevo, another Bosnia/Herzegovina, another Sudetenland, another Czechoslovakia, another….
Whew, what a mess. Mr. Goldman also has a column about the population collapse in Iran, and the fact the Twelver Cult there might as well attack now, as its possibilities only gets worse in the future. Perhaps, though, they’ll hold off in the hopes acquisition of nukes will make them unassailable? But then, as V(ntV) says above, what’s to stop them from buying a nuke?
Hindsight is useless, but…
We should have, if we were going to invade Iraq at all, invaded it, then swung around and taken out Syria back ten years ago, formed an Arab Republic made up of Sunni Arabs of Syria and Iraq, made Kurdistan an independent country, created a Greater Lebanon and a Shia-stan out of the other third of Iraq, all as counter-balances. Then found an easy pretext to bomb the daylights out of the regime in Tehran (I’m sure we had solid evidence of their perfidy in all things terrorist).
But we would have needed a Cardinal Richelieu as prez, or a Bismarck, or Theodore Roosevelt (NO ONE ever called him ‘Teddy’).
Now we have an actual (almost official, see that great Ramirez cartoon) Anti-Pope Baraq Hussein I (and last).
It is 1914 again, and Mr. Grey’s lights are going out again. He actually went blind, finally. We have the blind leading the blind.
An Préachán
Imagine a crazy wacky world…. one in which the US in Iraq was not attacked and undermined from day one by the international and domestic left. Imagine the power that could have been brought to bear against both Assad’s Syria and the totalitarians genocidalists of Iran. Imagine the kind of world that Western Civilization could have created the foundations for in the entire region.
But we don’t have that world. We have one where our exhaustion in Iraq was not military or even financial, but entirely political. As an ardent supporter of the effort, I confess total exhaustion not with the effort, but with having to defend it day after day to a bunch of sniping, whining, pro-totalitarian underminers who would never ever ever let up until the operation was lost, after which they could gleefully lay blame onto everyone but the ones who really lost it. And so now Syria and Iran have basically a free hand, and Russian and Chinese protection to boot.
Whether Mr. Bush, his supporters, and our military have a genuine strategic victory in Iraq is I guess a valid argument. (It certainly was a military one.) But every one of them can retire with a clear conscience knowing that they did all they possibly could to bring the fruits of civilzation to a genuinely barbaric region. And the home-grown barbarians of the left may now look upon the Syrian massacres, and at whatever Iran intends to do with those nukes, and I suppose they can pat themselves on the back for a job well done also.
Thanks, guys.
History is not written by the winners so much as it is written by the writers. The Left intend to write the history as Bush blew it. They are empowered, they get a sexual thrill like the “tingle up the leg”, by the very irrationality of their position. They are like the bullying geeks in school who would spend the entire class arguing some stupid point, the less important the better, until the inexperienced teacher gave up.
An Préachán 3,
You are essentially correct. We should have eliminated the Syrian Ba’ath regime in 2003 or 1991. The Donks pushed the false line that Bush lied and therefor the UNSC resolution backing the use of force in Iraq was illegitimate. They coupled that with a false claim that force can only be used when authorized by the UN. In doing so they constructed a mousetrap and gave it to China and Russia. Now they have got their fingers caught in the trap.
What we need to do is to triple the size of the armed forces. It would be a simple and clear campaign theme to run on, “Rearm Democracy.” Mitt Romney does not strike me as the man who would do that.
The Russians and Chinese are thinking of their own problems, Tienanmen Square, Tibet, Chechnya etc
–they do not want to set a precedent that would justify the UN interfering in Russian and Chinese matters.
The US needs to establish diplomacy with Iran, through our key NATO ally Turkey, to establish a policy re Syria and the broader region.
We had diplomatic relations with the USSR throughout the worst of the Cold War–we need to same diplomatic strategy with Iran.
The Christian population of Syria is in real jeopardy if chaos comes
–Syria gave safe haven to almost 1 million Christian refugees from Iraq and Assad has also protected the indigenous Syrian Christian population.
Together with Turkey and Iran we can provide a face saving way for Assad to retire to London, to live with his British wife.
An orderly transition of power in Syria will protect Christian and American interests in the region.
We need to talk with Iran and work with our key ally Turkey to further American interests in the region.
Victor (#6) HAHAHAhahahah….. Thanks for the early morning Laugh! “they do not want to set a precedent that would justify the UN interfering in Russian and Chinese matters.” UN interfere in China or Russia??? You jok’n right! Earth calling Victor, Earth calling Victor, your angle of entry is off! Your currently on a deflection course! Sever logic change required! Shutdown and reboot before it’s too late….
“The United States has a moral obligation to work with others to try and halt the continuing humanitarian crisis in Syria. ”
-Foreign Policy Initiative essay
Of course this is opposite to the truth. There may be potential allies among the Christian or other non-Muslim or nominally Muslim sects in Syria, but the Muslims of Syria, like the Muslims of Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc. are enemies. They will remain in a state of hatred for us no matter what we do, no matter what other Muslims come to power. And so:
“The United States has a moral obligation to work with other non-Muslims to try and foment instability and chaos in Syria.”
Better.
Exploit the blessed schisms within Islam. Pit this violent Muslim sect against that violent Muslim sect. For people who take their Islam seriously, the only people Muslims hate more than each other is everybody else. Engender the natural hatreds which the Muslims bear for each other and make sure their Jihad focuses on the local Jihad. This will stop their broader Jihad which focuses on us. Rot Islam from within. Force Muslims to feast on their hatred. Force Islam to live up to Islam, and make sure Muslims are the main beneficiaries of Islam. Feed them their Islam until they explode, or turn away from the feast. Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Libya, etc. deserve the tyrants, the bombs, the beheadings, the violence spewing priests, everything they’re getting and more, as long as they remain Muslim, for those things are Islam. When they turn from their execrable book and their vile priests and their religion of blood, different story. This is winnable, but not the way we’re setting about it. Not at all.
Cowards one and all.
The US sends over a B-2 armed with 4 2,000 Lb JSOWs. Mossad pretty much knows where Assad is on a 24 hour basis. Drop those 4 JSOWs on him at 2 minute intervals.
Problem solved.
That solution, like all solutions, creates new problems. Such as who takes over next? Will it be bubba or the MB? Or if we get Bubba with one of the JSOWs, then maybe some General.
The thing here is that Assad is finished. The details of when and where have yet to be worked out but they are just details.
I need another cup of coffee or three before I can figure out who is more stoopid, the US Diplomats or the Sov…….er, RUSSIAN diplomats.
Russia for thinking that Assad will emerge victorious or the US Diplos for not presenting the Russian diplos with a CD of news clips of Boris Yeltsin atop his tank.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_collapse
Once the people raise up, the tyrant is pretty much toast. The only exceptions are those where the population cannot arm themself.
Tyranny REQUIRES a monopoly on violence by the state. Since KSA, Turkey, Jordan and Iraq are sending in weapons, the Tyrant Assad is finished.
As a Kremlin watcher of 50+ years experience, about half of which were professional, this tells me that the Soviet era Generals have lost some power in the Kremlin.
One of the foundation principals of Soviet Military thinking is “Reinforce Success”.
No Soviet/Russian General would put a single Ruble into backing Assad.
“We need to talk with Iran”
Is that satire? Hard to tell sometimes on internet posts.
Actually “we” are having all kinds of communication with Iran.
Here is part of the conversation from earlier this week. The US Secretary of Defense said this:
“My view is that right now the most important thing is to keep the international community unified in keeping that pressure on, to try to convince Iran that they shouldn’t develop a nuclear weapon, that they should join the international family of nations and that they should operate by the rules that we all operate by,” he said. “But I have to tell you, if they don’t, we have all options on the table, and we’ll be prepared to respond if we have to.”
To which the Supreme Leader responded.
“”The Americans and others should, and do, know that we have our own threats to confront the military threats and oil sanctions and when necessary. We will make use of them at the right time,” declared Ayatollah Ali Khamenei,”
Oh, and he threw in this warm greeting “He said Israel is a “cancerous tumour that should be cut and will be cut”.
I think there is plenty of conversation going on. No misunderstandings here.
Turkey is welcome to intervene in Syria all they want. I doubt that they will ever fire a shot in support of the rebels though. Not their style.
Sometimes momentous events are more useful in realigning and redrawing political lines. China is the sponsor of North Korea as Iran is the sponsor of Syria and Russia is the sponsor of Iran. The masks are falling off the faces of the proxies and even the boy emperor and his leftist team can see who the real puppet masters are. The new axis of evil is China, Russia, and Iran. Now, if we are going to fight a war, no need to kick the dog.
Hey Victor, once the US sells 60b dollars worth of defense to KSA, the Sauds can dominate the region… as vassals of the Turkish state of course.
Islam is a retrograde ideology that has drained the vitality of civilization for centuries. A pox on Syria and all the rest of them, including Turkey.
Wretchard wrote (correctly): “And Europe is too weak to defend itself”
And that is now Europe’s problem, not the US’s. When we are in good shape, most of us are willing to pitch in and help the neighbors. When we have a dysfunctional government that is spending money it does not have to do things it should not do and doing them badly into the bargain, we have to look to our own interests first. To use one of Wretchard’s most telling sayings, the Design Margin is all used up.
As it happens, a few days ago I caught a commercial airline flight which crossed Iran. That is a big, big country! Harsh topography too. West of Qom, the plane flew over a long mountain surrounded by what looked like 20-30 bomb-resistant tunnel access doors dug into the hillsides. Proportional reponses and the finely-judged application of power are non-starters there. Stoicheion is right — the only way to deal with problems in that part of the world would be to cut off the heads of the snakes.
But we clearly do not have — and are not ever going to get — a US government which is prepared to start a campaign in the Mid East by bombing the head offices of the New York Times, CNN, and BBC. Which means (among other things) that the EUnuchs are on their own.
Face it, America is screwed. As Wretchard alludes to, Syria is starting to rhyme with Serbia in 1914. Stoicheion would have us leap into it head over heals and start bombing with B2′s. But America is screwed because it is too late, the issue is no longer Syrian despotism, the issue is Federal despotism:
The Drones Are Coming Home
Thats right, soon you too will have be privilege of being monitored by drones just like a Syrian patriot, er terrorist, er whatever.
In The State of US Surveillance Doug Hornig describes what is going on in the ongoing US drone wars:
But even worse than Federal spy drones patrolling your neighborhood is Federal snarfing of your entire existence:
Wake up boys, Assad isn’t nearly as big a threat to your grand children’s liberty as Holder, Panetta, and Napolitano. But you lose either way, because even if Obama keeps the US out of this unfolding global conflagration then all those drones will be coming back to the US to monitor you.
k @ 13: West of Qom, the plane flew over a long mountain surrounded by what looked like 20-30 bomb-resistant tunnel access doors dug into the hillsides.
decoys. smart. maybe.
I tend to agree with stoicheion on the main topic, that it sounds like Assad is over, hey even Ghaddafi didn’t go quickly. but as with the Arab Spring – what next?
this is where it ties into the Slab City story. modernity is coming for Assad and Syria, but does not yet seem ready to provide a replacement. the US does not own modernity, American progressive thinking to the contrary, even wishful thinking on all sides to the contrary. wretchard tells a hopeful story in the Philippines, that things held together, however haphazardly, and seem to be wandering in good directions. I doubt we can expect more of Syria (or Egypt, etc), only there seem so many more malign influences at work there.
I wonder at this point if the US can hold together long enough, to continue wandering in good directions.
of course it’s absurd in several ways to see China and Russia holding back the UN on something like this, I assume what Victor says about this is more or less right, and maybe Viktor, too, not to mention Spengler. on the one hand, the chance that the UN would ever try to move that way is miniscule, on the other hand, perhaps they are right to stand up now rather than wait for even such a small chance. and that China and Russia are less interventionist than the US – seems a total reversal from the good old Cold War days. just as the British played, “The World Turned Upside-Down” as they marched out of the American colonies. must be some principle of psycho-history at work here, that given enough time everyone does the opposite of what they came for. big wheel keeps on turnin’, whether it’s Proud Mary or the Yuga. amazing that any progress comes from such things at all.
What happened to R2P?
The White House may have liked R2P for Libya because they thought it wouldn’t cost much and would confirm their smarticality. Syria not so much. Syria is a client state of Russia. Russia is cynically advising a hands off policy towards Syria. That will discourage Obamian thoughts of intervention.
In some ways the unending turmoil in the Middle East is unfinished business from the wars of the Ottoman succession that began in the 18th century in south-east Europe. Maybe (Russian cynicism notwithstanding) it is better to let Syria play itself out.
Richelieu and Bismark practiced diplomacy in a far different world. Both men served a constituency of one. Modern popular democracies must pay lip service to harmonizing public policy with national “morality”. The application of “he may be a bastard, but he’s our bastard” died in the arms of the 1970s Democratic Party. Like mutually assured destruction, it’s now a historical curiosity.
Not that there isn’t a place for Realpolitik in the modern world. It’s just harder to find situations where national interest and the American ideal of national purpose synchronize. Clausewitz would take one look at Syria and wonder why the west doesn’t apply one of his immutable principles. When faced with an alliance, always attack (or undermine) the weaker partner. It doesn’t require a no fly zone or military support for the insurgents. There is no public support for such dramatic actions, absent a compelling argument from the President. There is certainly a compelling case to be made that the west should not stand by while a tyrant slaughters his own population.
Sadly, our government no longer seeks to influence events. Whether it is because they fear the unintended consequences (see Iraq 2003-2011) or because they lack the confidence is immaterial. Since we will be forced to live with the results, why shouldn’t we have a say in the outcome?
Once again, the solution is a naval blockade of Syrian ports, initially Tartus, to be effected by CAPTOR mines.
Why? Remember the mining of Haiphong Harbor? It did what all that ground warfare in the rice paddies did not, it brought Ho Chi Minh to the Paris Peace Talks pronto!
Why did Great Britain defeat Napoleonic France? The Royal Navy.
How did America “win” the War of 1812 while Napoleon was losing at Waterloo? The USS Constitution AKA “Old Ironsides”
What was Churchill’s greatest concern regarding defeating Hitler? Finding a way to defeat the U-boats and win the Battle of the Atlantic.
He who commands the seas commands the globe.
NAVY – A Global Force For Good!
Particularly now that Admiral William McRaven “manages up” the chain of command and Barack Hussein Obama Jr. “Leads from his behind”!
There’s a new sheriff in town and he runs SEAL Team 6!
Actually, the USA doesn’t have to do anything. Weapons are pouring across the Turkish border into the Rebel’s control. The Syrian Army is in the awkward position of occupiers of their own country. The officers keep the weapons and ammo under lock and key, They lead a 500 man unit out of camp and they start fighting right out of the gate. 50 of those men will switch coats and not return to base. So the Syrian Army is dug in around their supply depots amidst a sea of hostile civilians. ARMED hostile civilians.
No, Assad is toast. The only question for any of the players is “Who replaces him?”. Can we influence the out come? Can we pick his replacement?
I don’t think so but as an Iranian, Slimy Samatha might have the inside position on that.
It’s a pity that so many will die. That can be blamed on China and Russia. Mainly because it’s their fault. The black eye the commies get from this will dwarf any blowback from Iraq that sticks to America.
@19. stoicheion
“Actually, the USA doesn’t have to do anything. Weapons are pouring across the Turkish border into the Rebel’s control.”
Bravo. And also the US should stay out of the revolutionary aftermath. Just try to negotiate to America’s advantage with whoever picks up the pieces.
Then we have this: Congress Calls for Accelerated Use of Drones in U.S.
Why in the world would anyone want to take command of a ship more than half way underwater and undoubtedly headed to the bottom? The Captains of the life boats will be the person to be… A Rub party favorite gets in only means a lingering death, lingering death usually ends up being a very, very nasty end instead of a quick end but they are both the end one just makes it more painful than the other… It’s time to cut the dead growth from the constitution and start a new, at least we know a lot about what doesn’t work or turn out well….
US domestic drones. That is an interesting issue.
For less than $100 you can buy a toy helicopter with a camera controlled by your iPhone that can fly around your neighborhood. Hobbyists can do much more with inexpensive off the shelf stuff.
Two bright kids from Canada recently made news with the Lego man balloon device they made as a science project with cheap components. Duct tape, cell phone stuff, styrafoam, parachute, helium, that sort of thing. They made it to the upper stratosphere and captured wonderful images from space. A plus work fom a high school science project.
What about the media? Heard something on NPR from a media wonk pushing for ability to use this kind of technology for reporting. What are the limits? A CNN Heron drone could capture footage otherwise impossible. They could get started with basement hobby easily available components.
When the materials are this cheap and folks with some creativity and drive can see what is happening in your back yard there is little hope of putting the cat back in the bag.
I am more worried about answering the question “Who lost Turkey?” then I am about Syria. Turkey was the one and only more or less secular, more or less representative democracy in the entire Islamic world and we let Ataturk’s creation slip away. Now there is no counter example to militant Islam.
We don’t have a dog in the Syria fight. Iraq is and was the fulcrum for the region but we are not going to fight and die for the same ground a third time. Obama’s retreat was a huge strategic defeat. The best course of action now is a cold war with Islam. Wall it off and contain it as it has the seeds of its own collapse firmly encoded in its DNA just as the Soviet Union did.
Contrary to popular opinion the USA is not dependent on middle east oil. China is. Japan may be and Europe may be. If they are then let them deal with it. There is a tide in the affairs of men and right now the US needs to regroup, rethink and probably rearm as well. The age of the aircraft carrier has probably ended anywhere except in the bluest of blue water and we have built our navy around those beats which are as outmoded as dreadnaughts. Hugely expensive assets that are vulnerable to small cheap ones at close quarters.
Similarly our land forces need to rethink their doctrine. We were stymied by IEDs and suicide bombers and reluctant to engage our strengths or to accept that our enemies do not think the way we do. We will not win their hearts and minds until we first scare the cr*p out of the bowels. During the invasion we should have leveled Tikrit on general principles and when the they humg those contractors froma bridge in Falujah we should have firebombed the place, plouwed what was left underground and salted the earth when we were done then asked who wants to celebrate this great victory. Instead in Arab eyes we showed weakness and you know how they feel about the whole strong horse weak horse thing.
To be loved or at least tolerated you have to first be feared.
“Once again, the solution is a naval blockade of Syrian ports, initially Tartus, to be effected by CAPTOR mines.” Wow! With the exception of this comment, I see rationality breaking out all over the Belmont Club. Apparently BCers aren’t drinking the neoocon koolaid of some other outposts at PJM where Viktor is banned (Preston, Simon, cough cough). And comment number 2 is either Spengler or a very well-read Spengler fan not Viktor.
And Machias, ever heard of those hundreds of Yakhont missiles up and along the Syrian coast? Who’s this we who’s supposed to be laying the mines, kemosabe? Even if the Turkish border is closed, that still leaves overland resupply from Iran via Iraq. Those can’t be interdicted without causing some problems with the Iraqis. Washington has lost its leverage over them, for the most part.
Confederate H, I read the same article re: drones as the domestic trigger pullers for the bankster oligarchy when the US military says no. Get ready for a flood of counterdrone techniques and technologies from hacking to man-portable blinding lasers to perhaps a micro-EMP ray that can zap em’ like a bug zapper. Of course that will be countered by swarming but the materials required to crank out tens of thousands of those things can be interdicted. If the post-Terminator environment were real John Connor wouldn’t be just battling with all those HKs and HK tanks but would be blowing up whatever metal mines SkyNet gets its terminator iron from.
BTW, I sincerely hope this story is a mistranslation or product of the neocon propaganda machine. Cuz if the Ayotollah is sincere and accurately quoted here, better start filling up your spare gas cans now boys, we’re gonna have a war pretty quick.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah-kill-all-jews-annihilate-israel/
WND: Khameini says annihilate Israel
For what it’s worth:
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2012/02/05/top-syrian-defector-assads-army-is-close-to-collapse/
And last comment for this thread — Spengler had said my scenario of Pakistan giving or selling a nuke to Iran is ‘far fetched’. It looks like according to YNetnews the Pakistani generals are at least suggesting they’d back Iran in case of Israeli attack — and Pakistan already has ‘the Islamic Bomb’:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4185684,00.html
Glenn Beck is predicting economic collapse and civil war in the US.
So, my question is: Is .308 good enough or do I need 30-06? Also, how many rounds?
“We had diplomatic relations with the USSR throughout the worst of the Cold War–we need to same diplomatic strategy with Iran.”
Invalid comparison. The USSR at it’s worst was not as bad as Iran. Remember, nobody has gotten into Iran and looked for mass graves yet.
While Socialism has all the aspects of a religion, it is missing what the Supreme Court claims is the basic requirement for religion, that it’s believers claim it is a religion. Islam is a religion, and if you don’t believe, they will kill you. That makes Muslims both murderous and barbaric. Socialism is founded on logic. Logic based on a lie but logic still. Islam isn’t. Are you familiar with the saying; “You cannot reason a man out of what he wasn’t reasoned into.”
You can prove to a Socialist that Capitalism creates wealth, Socialism steals it. So Logically, Capitalism has to precede Socialism or there is nothing to steal. Marx covered that. although not quite the way I did.
There is no possibility of dialogue between the Mad Dog Mullahs and America. They need to be put down. ASAP.
Assad is a worthless dictator. He has, really amazingly, made himself the ally of lots of other worthless dictators, who seem to be willing to step up and speak for him. Neither Hussein or Gaddafi seem to have had the same number of worthless dictators to stand up for them. I can’t easily explain why that is. It may be luck or chance since I see very little that Syria offers to anyone. I suppose the warm water port is what attracts the Russians and the foothold in the arab world is what attracts the Persians.
Worthless dictator supporters like the Persians and the Russians won’t actually come to Assad’s aid when he needs them. They will flee like rats from a sinking ship. I would assume that Assad knows all this, since he’s a worthless dictator himself.
If the US wants to have some say in the division of the spoils it has to participate in the action to gain them.
@ 29
You make an absurd,ignorant and deluded claim.
Robert Conquest at Hoover/Stanford documents the Soviet slaughter of 65+ million + over the years.
As have many others
We knew what Stalin was doing–killing people, invading Poland etc-but we supported his regime in WW2.
The Persians –on the other hand -have a long history of civilization.
We need to talk with Iran through our loyal NATO ally Turkey
As Churchill said–jaw jaw jaw is better than war war war.
Iran is no threat to America and in fact will be a trading partner if we are smart
Victor @ 31: “… our loyal NATO ally Turkey”
That would be the same Turkey which proved itself to be such a loyal & helpful ally when the US led an international force to remove Saddam Hussein?
It would be nice if your characterization of Iran turns out to be accurate, but your batting average right now does not raise confidence.
MBM – .308 is plenty fine. Same same as .30-06. .30-06 is 30 caliber or .30″ 1906 variant.
.308 is great hunting ammo. .223 Rem is best for two legged varmints. Also, Russian steel case Berdan primed 62gr is cheap, cheap. Get it in bulk from your local gun show or Cheaper Than Dirt. It was originally developed to wound not kill as a wounded soldier takes many more resources to care for than a dead one. Make the enemy use his resources caring for the wounded. Sad but true.
.22LR for small game – rabbits, etc.
12GA or 20GA for birds. Also good close quarters defense ammo is the same stuff – #7 1/2 or #8 shot in light game loads.
As for Beck, well he is often right on the initial idea then wrong on details.
Should be closer to the Zombie Apocalypse. They will come out of the cities hungry and weak thinking they can scare the country bumpkins. They shall be sadly mistaken. Gold is not hedge either. What is gold denominated in? What good will those be? Real currency will be fractional sizes as above. Food. Water. Seed. Land to grow said seed. And community that hardly exists to the city maroon. But it does exist in the country.
It isn’t that Beck or Obama or our elite are stupid just that their premises are so wrong because they have no other frames of reference.
As eon says: clear ether
“our loyal NATO ally Turkey”
Victor is a Turkish national and a paid toady of its Islamist regime. He will of course deny this but it is the truth.
Put me down on the list as one who is appreciative that we don’t have a Richelieu or a Bismarck in the U.S. It didn’t end up going so well for France or Germany, guys.
Victor @ 6 – Precisely, Russia and China do not want to empower the Arab League or other two bit players. No one really wants vigilante “justice”. So what we need is a universally respected sheriff to ride into town and impose real justice. Given that America has already done the Arsenal of Democracy, Leader of the Free World, World’s Rapid Reaction Force etc. it is long past time for it to downsize to World’s Police SWAT Team. Everyone seems to agree the killing of innocent civilians cannot go on, but no one trusts anyone else to be the sheriff. Except the one reliable White Knight of Human Kindness, G I Joe! But Joe is kind of busy in Afghanistan right now, so why not let the NAVY do the job? Just a few CAPTOR mines off Tartus is sure to concentrate Assad’s mind. Give him asylum in Paris! What’s his problem with that? Nobody gets killed!!!!! He scoots off and the reconciliation process begins in his absence.
The Arab League gets humbled for the ineffectiveness of its peacekeeping effort (payback for Libya). Hillary (ditto)and the Three Valkyries get humbled for ignoring the legitimate concerns of Russia and China at the U N. They get a little cover for sidng with an autocratic tyrant and killer. The only big loser is the guy who deserves it most, Assad.
Let’s wrap this up TODAY!
“…moderate, representative government that respects human rights, upholds the rule of law, promotes stability in the Middle East…”
Not a single instance of this in any Islamic country last time I looked. The problem is Islam itself. Fine as a religion (I suppose) but as a basis of government it cannot be unbiased, period. It should be opposed at every turn just as Communism was, is and should be, both abroad and domestically.
MBM, RD, 30-06 is usually bolt-action fed. A good .308 rifle is magazine fed and good for killing at a distance. Reach out and touch them before they can touch you. Don’t forget to practice before you need to put it to use. I am still hopeful it will not come to violence in-country. Let’s beat ‘em at the ballot box.
SE@37
Let’s not forget the M1 Rifle (Garand),30-06 in 8 round enbloc clips, available at the Civilian Marksmanship Program. It’s very accurate and reliable. Thousands of dead enemy in three wars can’t be wrong!
I think the psychosis or the tremendous irony at work here is that an 0bama administration obsessed with controlling everything is in control of very little at all. All they ever had any “control” over was the ability to destroy, the ..;. uh…”the creative destruction” if you will. Creative destruction, wow, that’s brilliant, so out-of-the-box clever, and simple enough for those with no real abilities to accomplish anything nor the desire to create anything other than destruction can join in with. “Yes We Can! Yes We Can!”…say it enough times and it will fill the void. The void of experience most lacking. The void of a barren empty slate. More fool the electorate who gave them such carte blanche out of the guilted goodness of their hearts. We should call it the Binge Administration. Or maybe ‘The Guilted Age’. A bunch of poncy pampered academic spoiled brats playing with “toys” they pretend to resent (the military) but always secretly coveted, winding them up and and sending them in or impudently withdrawing them from where they would be needed when the new idea they got and “extensively planned” went into effect. Now they are bored and touchy when they must consider any or all unintended consequences (Denial’s not just a river in Egypt, guys). Why are people in the world not compliant when the work of childlike genius is at work? Since when did people get ideas of their own? And how long have they had these ideas? Don’t they know the foreign policy theories of the Binge Administration have been rigorously tested in university? How could they not have been made aware of the Advent of The One? And if not, do they not see it at work here? In all things?
Gaffe Prices 39,
May I reword your fine post to condense it?
We have the “Cash for Clunkers” government. Time to get rid of it.