The Arab reaction to the president’s Middle East speech as reported by the Christian Science Monitor is reminiscent of the responses to the failing Mubarak: they’ve seen Obama give, now they want to see him give some more. “While those involved in Arab uprisings welcomed Obama’s support, others were disappointed with his failure to apologize for US support for Middle East dictators.” Once you start giving to the crowd, you can’t stop giving.
In giving his speech the president may have done three things, none of which he quite intended. First, he has essentially denounced as evil and misguided, though in a lukewarm fashion, decades of American policy in the Middle East. Second, he has delegitimized Israel, at least within the context of its current borders. Third, he has by implication suggested that the rule of many of his allies is undemocratic and, in consequence, declared himself King of Arabia. He has assumed ultimate responsibility for the political development of the region now. He’s declared it broken. Now he owns it.
When a regime of long standing makes unprecedented admissions of culpability and promises reform, the first reaction of revolutionaries is to assume that ancien regime is doomed. Those who listened to Obama’s speech may not be convinced of his new beginning, but they most assuredly scent the coming of an end.
What some Arabs will be looking for now is street cred. The Los Angeles Times reported from Cairo that listeners to the president’s speech said it went far, but didn’t go far enough. “People seem to have lost confidence in the good words Obama said when he was here,” said Aziz. “I think it was us Egyptians, Tunisians and Arabs who forced Obama to finally start reaching out to the region and support freedoms and peoples’ will. He knows that it is a reality now and that he will lose the whole region’s support if he doesn’t do so.”
Having declared himself on the side of the demonstrators and no longer the defender of the status quo, many of the participants in the Arab Street will ask Obama to make his bones. And the only way President Obama can prove that he’s on their side is to throw one or two dictators their way. The Bush plan would be to throw Khamenei and Assad to the crowds first. But that appears to be off the table, because he wants to talk to them, so in the Obama variation the alternative appears to be giving only America’s allies in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel, the heave-ho. When it is too hard to ditch your enemies, ditch those who trusted you.
As I said in a previous post, Israel must act because there is no longer any credibility in a US defensive umbrella. The Arab’s and Persians believe that they can win, and given long enough to prepare, they can either win or severely hurt Israel. She needs to stop them now, on her own, to defend her own sovereignty and right to exist.
On the other hand, every regime in the Middle East that can possibly afford it will buy Nuc’s and other WMD’s. They’ll take the example of Pakistan to heart, and NONE will trust the USA for anything. The arms race kicks off in earnest now. Expect to see the Europeans in there big time to sell them the stuff – like hogs in the trough.
Obama is like a lost four year old child in a world of mean old adults, except maybe that he’s holding a six shooter and the lives of millions in his hand. What a fearful mess!
Ok, we know our inexperienced president does not know the dfanger of riding on a tiger. But what about his advisers? Are they this stupid too? This will not end well. F
I agree with #1 Old Salt. Israel is alone and running out of options. Rather than provide them Hope POTUS has increased the probabilty of a regional conflict.
There was a young man from Darjeeling
Who travelled from London the Ealing
It said on the door ” Please do not spit on the floor”
So he carefully spat on the ceiling
Why should America care about these tribal/religious/land disputes and these cultures of revenge and hatred—a pox on all their houses.
End handouts to Pakistan, Israel and Egypt.
Bring our Troops and Treasure home.
Fix our debt, create American jobs, competitiveness and wealth for American citizens
Prepare for the looming conflict with China
KSA has some relevance because they are paying us $ 60 Billion for defense products—that creates American jobs and wealth.
The other actors in the region are just leeches and parasites on the American economy–looking for handouts
No more handouts
Obama has done nothing but further expose himself as a servant of Evil. He will be judged by God.
Wretchard, “Hold That Tiger.”
Harvard quotes Princeton?
Talleyrand may have been able to do justice to the Democrat’s Bourbon level of fecklessnes.
In the land of wishful thinking where the wildflowers grow
Soon will be the the peaceful sleep of rusted dreams in rows
Where the graves are for the living hiding down below
Too scared to live in no man’s land where the wildfires blow.
Through the brains of gifted men in suits of Saville row
Through Foggy Bottom Barrow Downs and the murdered cries of crows
Walk and crawl the dirty thinkers who are sure only they can know
The paths of death you must take to the Holy land to go
And they will tell the hosts of men who scream back at them with loud no’s
That only they have seen the only way to the promised land down below.
And it it is through the crack between the trenches where wildflowers grow
That they will send you all alone to where the wildfires blow.
But what exactly are these US “security interests” in the mid-east? Given the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the fact that anyone with crude oil has an interest in selling it, the only reason we should care what happens “over there” is because we insist on inviting those people to come live “over here”.
If the demographics in the Middle East for the past ninety years continue for the next ninety years, just before the turn of this century (2097-2098) Israel will become majority Arab Muslim with the world’s largest Jewish minority. The nation will no longer be called ‘Israel,’ the flag will no longer be the Shield of David, and there will no longer be a Jewish state dedicated to protecting Jews in the world.
The Israelis must start planning. Russia is attempting to avoid demographic collapse in the mid-century by giving tax credits to married couples for having large numbers of children. Somehow, that kind of nationalism doesn’t appear to be attractive to Israelis, but they are going to have to do something to preserve the concept of an independent sovereign Jewish state.
Perhaps Mr. Obama’s drawing a line at the 67 borders will help start the debate. Somewhere in the debate to come, though, eventually someone in Hamas or Fatah or Hezbollah or Tehran or Damascus is going to get hold of Israeli publicly available demographics and realize that all they have to do is wait.
Imagine if Hamas or Fatah switches within a decade to non-violence to achieve an independent Palestinian state, one where the Jews are naturally the minority in their former Jewish state. If an Arab Dr. Martin Luther King or Ghandi comes forward preaching non-violence in achieving political goals, how will Israel possibly continue to exist in the firestorm of world-wide support the Arab non-violence campaign will realize?
Israel should relocate, and the sooner the better. We already give a billion U.S. dollars annually to Egypt; why not make the payments for the purchase of the Sinai for Israel’s relocation? Or, why not relocate Israel to the 49th parallel on the North American continent, the “Peace Border” between Canada and the U.S.
Radical ideas? Then, just wait for theofascism in the 21st century to deny Israel any viable options in the 22nd.
Wretchard: “…if Plan A fails, what on earth is Plan B?”
When he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” And out came another horse, bright red. Its rider was permitted to take peace from the earth, so that people should slay one another, and he was given a great sword. (Rev 6:3-4)
The Arab Spring
Will surely bring
Good fortune to Obama
Dictators dead
And in their stead
Adherents of Osama
But we can tell
That all is well
The Arabs love us all now
At Muezzin call
They’ll put us all
Up against the wall now
The Arab Spring
Will surely bring
Good fortune to Obama
As in Wright’s pews
Shouts “Kill the Jews!”
Bring smiles to O and Mama
On the bright side I think at this point pretty much everyone in the world knows that Obama represents the US in name only. The Israelis are just like us — trying to hold on until the disaster is over. Columbia, the UK, Eastern Europe should all be reassured that nothing Obama says has the backing of the American people.
We just have to hope that the Iranians and their proxies don’t feel they are strong enough yet to push the Jews in to sea. I suspect the Israeli’s nuclear arsenal is the only trump card they have left because it is imminently clear Obama does not have their backs.
“But what about his advisers? Are they this stupid too? This will not end well. F”
Yes, yes and yes.
On a positive note, this might be the last nail in the Usurpers coffin. One can only hope.
KSA is paying America $60 Billion for defense products–that creates American jobs
What are Americas fundamental interests in this religious/tribal/land dispute in cultures driven by hatred and and revenge?—none
Why does America bother with this ridiculous charade that is the ‘peace process’ ?
What would be the political consequences of a US president (or aspirant) saying,
‘the US cannot be more desirous of peace than the two parties involved. therefore we disengage and will refuse to fund all interested parties in middle east peace until the protagonists are ready to sincerely work towards peace.’?
AIPAC should be registered under Foreign Agents Registration Act FARA
http://www.fara.gov/
The Israeli economy is doing OK-they should pay their own way–no more handouts from America.
America needs to focus upon our own economic interests–period.
We are committed to two alliances
1/ NATO
2/ The Anglosphere members of ECHELON
“Once you start giving to the crowd, you can’t stop giving.”
Isn’t this exactly the morasss that America got mired in after 9/11? Islam attacked us and we jumped to “fix” a couple of the shit-holiest Muslim sewers… Give, give, give, die, die, die, spend, spend, spend and those putrid Muslims and especially the putrid Arabs hate us more than ever. When Iraq stumbles and fails, it now and forever more will be our fault. It won’t be the endless gasoline poured onto the pyre of hatred by Iran and Saudi Arabia. Ditto Afghansitan. it won’t be Islam, or the greasy Muslims, or their fountains of seething hatred and their psychotic anger… 9/11 worked perfectly. We are bankrupting ourselves to become the whipping boy for the most savage, broken, and sadistic duly tire on Earth. The more Islam lashes us, the more it’s our fault. This is a highly dysfunctional relationship we’re developing, and the abuser wins even when he loses, and the victim is always turned into the perpetrator of the violence and breakdown.
Is not this community organizing on an international scene? When all you have is a hammer…. Obama, never surprising always disappointing.
Obama is truly an enigma. He has made all of the moves that the cold war era communists did, but even devout communists never betray self interest. If he can vex the world just imagine how easy it is to turn the United States inside out. Import more third world foreigners and bad mouth bitter clinging whiteys. When the time comes, and it will, he will unleash the dark forces upon the ungrateful masses that did not vote for him and “punish (his) enemies” as he is fond of saying. He will have the full cooperation of all of the organs of state because they have already been politicized and aligned to defeat the constitutional republic. Obama want to instigate a race war and not a single Caucasian politician will complain because the state has imbued into Obama and his monolithic voting block the status of being a preferred minority. This is now written into the code in government and racial preferences once bestowed will forever preordain the haves and the have nots.
Obama wants to be a historical person and make a mark on history, even if it means a smoldering hole that can be seen from space. Now that is making a mark!
This looks like a fundamental change in US policy since Truman admin. and it is not a well thought through.
However, if it has changed once, it can change again. Hopefully for a better one.
“When the time comes, and it will, he will unleash the dark forces upon the ungrateful masses that did not vote for him and “punish (his) enemies” as he is fond of saying.”
He can try.
Obama doesn’t scare me. I’m scared by whoever takes him down. one spark and there will be establishment types hanging from every lamp post in America. When we run out of lamp posts, we’ll switch to trees. I expect a run on ammo this weekend.
“Once you start giving to the crowd, you can’t stop giving.”
Gives new meaning to this administrations crack Mideast policies.
Or, perhaps…the Roman coliseum theory of politics. It is not enough to have men fight each other with swords and knives…the crowd bores easily. Bring in the lions.
I’ve seen a Muslim outreach program…when Obama succeeds in destroying Israel as seems his wont…will we hold a Jewish outreach program? And to where will they “return” this time? Other than the media’s ancient Lebanese crone…there have been precious few suggestions.
Of course, I have suggested giving them California. We don’t seem to be doing much with it other than destroying it, anyway.
Obama has a choice between Syria and Iran..and Israel…he seems much more inclined not to stab in the front…when he can stab in the back.
“there will be establishment types hanging from every lamp post in America”
Well that is a cheery thought. See, hope and change is what’s called for.Consider it for the children.
“I have suggested giving them California”
I’d have more in common with them than than 3 million illegal aliens and an army of armed gang members. The Israeli’s know how to handle firearms and when the stink hits the fan there will be little to distinguish Palestinians from the armed insurgency of our governments preferred brown people sent here to steal the jobs that Americans don’t deserve.
Obama earned a few chips with Osama’s death.
Now he has spent them.
For nothing.
I thought it was “Niger”, not “Riga”.
Israel is still quite capable of defending herself, even if U.S. support in the form of money or military hardware dries up. I have little doubt that the Israeli’s are even now working on their plans for whatever contingency that comes out of this speech. Remember Stuxnet? I’m sure the Israeli’s have a few more tricks like that up their sleeve. I just don’t understand what Barry could have been thinking. Hasn’t he listened to the palestinians? They have been quite vocal and extraordinarily clear about their hatred of Israel, of Jews and of the West and very open about their desire to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Yet these are the people that Barry has cast his lot with? As far as his advisers are concerned, Barry doesn’t really have advisers, he has bobble headed drones who nod their heads up and down all day long.
@9. a Duoist
The problem is this: they are impatient. The arab/islamist groups do not have a culture of waiting for the long view, as the orientals do. They’re very emotional and impulsive.
Similarly, the left has been on their long march for a–well… long time now, and they feel now is the moment of impending victory. Hence, Obamacare, plus everything else contrary to the wishes and history of the American people. Let us hope that it is pure overreach, but the persistent 45% support or so for the left (we don’t need to call them Democrats) indicates that for many, many people what is being done is exactly what they want.
–JC
1. Victor needs to read George Gilder’s book The Israel Test. Israel has been one of the greatest investments the US has ever made. So much of our technology is developed there, from instant messaging on down. Israel has the world’s largest generic drug company. Israel developed the must effective treatment for multiple sclerosis. Israel leads the world in neonatal and OB-Gyn science. Their precision machine works are world leaders. They have perfected drones and missile defense. Their intelligence gathering helps us every day of the year. We get far more from Israel than we send them in aid. And this does not even count the intangibles of having another democracy in the world.
2. The President is doing precisely what he intends to do. That is to weaken the United States economically, militarily, in terms of its international influence, and in terms of its own national identity. His tilt in this most recent speech betrays not ignorance nor inexperience. It betrays a conscious plan to tilt toward our Islamic adversaries and away from our long-time allies, starting with Britain and extending around the world to Israel and beyond.
Why he should want the United States to be degraded is open to debate. Is it because he is a leftist idealist? Or because he is fighting against British colonialism in Kenya? Or because he really does not have a core American identity? Or perhaps because he sees the world through an Islamic weltanschauung? Or some combination? I do not know the underlying reasons WHY he wants to degrade and weaken the United States, but it seems clear to me that this is his agenda.
Can anyone else give a more convincing explanation?
…because what the world needs today is another murderous, despotic, kleptomanic, dysfunctional failed Arab state in the Middle East!!
#17
Obama is truly an enigma….
No, actually; he’s transparent as hell (you explain why later on). And always has been. A confabulation wrapped in a fib wrapped in a whopper (with apologies.)
#22
Now he has spent them. For nothing.
For nothing? Destroying the Zionist Entity is nothing? Cutting America down to size is nothing? Demoralizing the country and dissipating America’s international standing is nothing? Nothing? Not bad for a term’s work, I’d say.
File under: “Speak Again!!”
One of the key problems facing any American president is the legacy of Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter wanted trophies. He wanted photo opportunities. He wanted to be seen as a peacemaker, regardless of who got killed in the process.
Ever since his example, American presidents have an unfortunate reputation as “peace trophy” hunters, with the leaders of Israel and Palestine as the most alluring catches. The problem with being the “peace trophy” is that it is invariably a humiliation to be paraded around as if one were a Roman captive.
If one wants peace, that can be done – quietly. As soon as an American president opens his mouth, he undermines any real chance for peace. An official peace treaty signed at the Rose Garden brings all of the benefits to the American president who brokers the peace while all of the costs are borne by others, principally those living in Israel/Palestine.
Any real facilitator of negotiations needs empathy, trustworthiness, and nerve, but what he mostly needs is to be able to keep his mouth shut.
It is getting really crowded under Barry’s bus – preachers, grandma, about a zillion campaign promises, unsavory aging radical weathermen, allies of various degrees of unscrupulousness, and now Israel. It is dangerous being this guys friend.
Why do I see him heading back down in the polls? Of course Israel could no more agree to go back to the 1967 borders than it could agree to have a grape Kool Aide party sponsored by Himmler at a crematorium. So where is Barry think he is going with this? Well of course as usual he creates or saves a little rhetorical loophole by mentioning land swaps, but basically it is a campaign speech and little more. A bone to the Left. Congress ain’t dumping Israel and in these hard economic times they aren’t voting billions more in new aid for Arabs. Not going to happen.
So if it is not going to happen why is he talking about it? Because he doesn’t want to talk about the economy which he has wrecked with single minded determination.
Batman, as far as handing out money and weapons to all sides of all conflicts is concerned. It has run its course and no longer makes sense. Take Pakistan for instance. We need to take our ball and go home. Afghanistan is a fool’s errand while Pakistan exports terrorism and trains Jihadis as much or more than Tehran. They are building plutonium plant for Christ’s sake and the masters of the universe at state think that the worse things are the more important they will be. This is what professional rent seekers do best. The BATF sells assault weapons to the Mexican drug cartels to murder Americans so that they can increase their budget and pass draconian, anti-constitutional laws. The problems are manufactured like printed money so that the answer can be more big government. 4,300 Americans murdered a year by illegal aliens? No problem, more police, more welfare workers, and more federal bureaucracy. Win-win. Less bitter clingers and informed voters. Uncle Sam has turned into a murderous zombie and is killing, literally everyone in their path and if they can take out our allies in the process all the better.The One is doing it for personal glory, everyone else is doing it for early retirement and a generous pension. Welcome to America the communist (government) workers paradise. Federal racist policy fits hand in glove with communism.Don’t like it? you’re a racist! off to reeducation with you.
In regards to handing out billions to Israel is concerned, let us buy technology from them and they can earn their billions the old fashion way. Let’s see how well that works for Egypt and Pakistan.
As far as motivations are concerned, I really think it is an ego trip to see how he can change the world, good or bad isn’t a goal, just to mark it like a planet sized graffiti artist with his signature.
American military sales to Gulf monarchies are worse than useless. They are perceived as large-scale bribes, and as such, they fuel hatred on both sides of the Atlantic. Arabs see them as a form of looting in exchange for weapons they won’t actually use, while Americans see them as heavy-handed bribes that subvert our political system. Arab states would be better off creating domestic armaments industries to put more of their own people to work. If Gulf monarchies would create their own arms industries rather than attempting to bribe Americans, they would be a lot better off.
A good analogy is Egypt. The Late Ptolemaic dynasty had a habit of bribing every major political faction in Rome. Although this policy was intended to buy off Rome, it did nothing of the sort. Anti-Roman sentiment in Alexandria increased because Egyptians were very upset that their taxes were going to pay Roman politicians. Anti-Egyptian sentiment among patriotic Romans increased because they saw Egypt as corrupting their Republic. Contempt toward Egypt from demagogues increased because they saw Egypt as a cash cow that they could loot. Corrupt Roman politicians, like the ancient Dane, always wanted more.
American arms sales to the Shah did nothing to help American security. Arms sales to Gulf monarchies are unlikely to be any more helpful.
As for Israel, the Israeli economy would probably be better off without the present American subsidy. For one thing, the United States would no longer have veto power over Israeli arms sales and the United States would no longer have privileged access to Israeli technology. Cutting off the subsidy would also lead to an increase in monetary support to the Israeli government from Jews throughout the world. Israel, by no longer being tied to the United States, would be able to make new alliances that had hitherto been vetoed by American diplomats.
If the United States did not substantially gain from its subsidy to the State of Israel, I would not support that subsidy. The reason I do not support such a move is because it would demolish American political leverage over Israel, end privileged access to Israeli technology, and end any outside veto over Israeli arms sales. One should consider whose interests would be furthered by cutting off subsidies to Israel if the United States happens to gain more from subsidizing Israel than Israel does.
Excuse me, Mr. Fernandez? Saudi Arabia is an ally? Saudi Arabia is the country that is spreading violent 7th century barbarism through its subsidy for the preachers of the most Stone Age form of Islam – and for the buildings for them to preach in. Saudi Arabia provided all the money and most of the perpetrators for 9/11. And last but not least, Saudi Arabia hosts two of the foci of that particular plague.
I continue to say this: The response to 9/11 ought to have been to turn the palace of the King of Mordor into a pile of rubble – without warning. Followed by an ICBM warhead with its guts replaced with concrete dropping into the Grand Mosque right next to the Kaaba, carrying a note. Note to say: “The next one won’t be a dud.”
Why did the real perpetrators of 9/11 not get punished? Simple. The Shrub’s family and friends would have lost money.
1 Timothy 6:10
“it would demolish American political leverage over Israel, end privileged access to Israeli technology, ”
For what its worth, I don’t care for political leverage over Israel. Perhaps that is why our administration has cancelled the sale of bunker busters to them. That isn’t in my best interest either and that is probably why Obama or any other anti-Semite in chief can dictate terms to Israel like to demand restoring the ’67 borders back to the perpetrators and losers of that war and relinquishing Jerusalem. I can just imagine the Arab largesse under similar circumstances.
The fact of the matter, countries like France’s independence during the cold war kept things more on an even keel than the perfect polarity that so often fails when one side makes a mistake. Why should we be keeping a collar on Israel? I am sure they suffer our abuses just because it would serve no end to piss us off.
We have all the makings of a healthy trade relationship with Israel and, having been in the defense industry I can assure you that there are more deals than you count that are quashed for political reasons. That being the US as a “sponsor”cannot afford to sell any technology to Israel that would offend Saudi Arabia or god who else knows should they use it to protect themselves less it reflect poorly on us.I see the deal with KSA to be just so much filthy lucre as well. How does that mesh with KSA’s far reaching efforts in Pakistan and beyond funding Murder University? How much does that cost us. Let me see, the war on terror…. 10 trillion and counting.
And finally, everyone has a pet project and no one is willing to make a compromise in the light of the fact that we are writing checks against an empty bank account. Got that? We are borrowing money to give it away. Bullsh!t and enough! Want to piss money down a hole? Quit importing the dregs of the third world and quit taxing people to death. In other words, get your jack boot off of the neck of the American economy and take your tithe. Quit stealing the seed corn and spending it at the masters of the universe roulette table. And if you do, make sure you have the money in the account and make sure it wasn’t somebody elses’ money like a social security recipients.
As the shuttle S.S. Obama attempts re-entry, little sparkly bits seem to be coming off of it. Apparently ground control can’t get a signal through to tell them they are losing tiles, credibility, respect, friends, and are gaining heat, turbulence,and blood enemies.
It seems even the JINO’s are starting to get the message or at least are feeling the pressure from the rest of the Landsmen. Donors are starting to withhold.
I love that phrase, “invest in the Middle East” right. “Look! A rat hole, lets invest in it!” We’d stand a better chance of ROI by buying real estate around Fukijima.
batman@26
“I do not know the underlying reasons WHY he wants to degrade and weaken the United States, but it seems clear to me that this is his agenda.”
I have the same feeling and it worries me. It is bad if he is simply clueless, but far worse if he is following some misguided theory or misplaced animus against past US actions or against past Empires.
I can’t see how his foreign policies serve the interests of America and its long time allies. Why is this happening? It’s as if Obama wants to spite some bogey-men that loom large in his mind. But this answer seems a ridiculous motivation for an American President so I can’t really believe it.
Another answer is that he is clueless. A third answer is commenter etab’s opinion of clinical narcissism. Not a good choice though – between clueless, misguided and a ruling self obsession. Of course, the tiger finds clueless just as tasty as misguided or self obsessed.
The point which I may have failed to make in the post above is that President Obama, rather than wowing the Arab Street, has now communicated to them his weakness.
In other words, the Arab Street sees Obama for what he is, a poseur, who is belatedly trying to cover himself with the tatters of GWB’s old policies and neither succeeding in his impersonation nor striking off on his own path. What his speech really said is:
That, not the AID money, is the real sweetener in the pot. And Hamas told the President to just dry up and blow away. LOL. They said he was all talk. Maybe they think they don’t even need his help any more to get what they want. He may have become an irrelevancy even to those he wishes to impress. Just think: Obama rallying the Egyptians, the Lebanese, the Syrians and nobody comes.
The reason his stock has fallen so far since Cairo is quite simple. He has repeatedly failed. Now he wants to turn hock his few successes into yet bigger failures, taking the momentum that was handed to him by the US Armed Forces and to parlay it into enough credibility to restart his Middle Eastern diplomacy, and that only succeeds in reminding everyone of what a failure he was to start with.
This is the Obama Doctrine, be treacherous to American allies, and harmless to America’s enemies.
Obama especially hates Israel which he sees as a foreign colonial occupier of Arab Islamic lands, and while he cannot break off relations with the Jewish State, he can and will do everything he can to make life difficult for Israel.
And Obama despises Jews as a People, seeing us as a disruptive, corrosive, and capitalist influence on America, and the historical oppressors of African Americans. If you doubt this maybe you can tell me how Barack and Michele Obama and their daughters sat in the anti American, anti Semitic, anti Israel, and Black racist congregation of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright for twenty years and yet never found any of the good Reverend’s anti American, anti Israel, anti Semitic, and anti White diatribes deplorable, in fact, how the Obama’s somehow never even heard them?
“American arms sales to the Shah did nothing to help American security.”
Baloney! Perhaps on what ever planet you live on unit cost doesn’t decline with increased production. On Earth, they do. Every F-14 the Shah bought reduced the cost of a US Navy F-14. The Shah went down for the same reason Mubarak did. POTUS threw him under the bus.
Both sides NEED the current arrangement. Obama made his speech to try and manipulate both sides. It isn’t and won’t work. Russia and China would both be happy about taking America’s place in the deal with Israel. Israel has more leverage here then the USA. This whole thangie is almost as stoooopid as R2P.
Israel is joined at the hip with the USA on weapons research. If the USA pulls back, Others will slide right in. With the USA out of the picture, China would be a logical place to sell “star Wars” technology. Russia and China would get into a bidding war.
Then there is India.
After losing Egypt, the Obomination is determined to do as much damage to the USA as possible. ON the other hand, if Marie runs for POTUS, she could beat the won in the primaries, saving America a lot of bloodshed.
The US can’t even get its own people to buy into “getting an education,” yet we will convert the middle east into peace-loving democracies. Sorry, Obama. Not everyone shares your vision of Gaia. In fact, many think it’s a really dumb idea. Some think, like you, if only everyone believed as they do, the world would be ordered. What’s your power of persuasion? An ideology that pushed you into a corner and caused you to assassinate a valuable intelligence asset, because he couldn’t go to Gitmo, and he sure as heck couldn’t be tried in lower Manhattan. Either would be the end of your second term, so you killed him.
It’s time to sever our reliance on ME oil. We can do it a number of ways, starting with Natural Gas, Shale Oil, or who knows, maybe AEVs will work out. The US oil production could be used for fertilizer. Just stop being dependent on a group of people, and I include Israel in this, that live on their hatred and millenia of tit for tat.
The ME is the Gordian knot, but there is no sword sharp enough to cut it in half. Or perhaps no will to cut it in half. Why bother?
#36
The reason his stock has fallen so far since Cairo is quite simple. He has repeatedly failed.
More precisely, he has repeatedly failed to hogtie Israel and present it to its “Partners in Peace,” Inc., on a silver platter, which is what he led them to believe he would do, since it’s the meaning of “even-handedness” for those earnest folk (and it’s why previous administrations could never be “even-handed” no matter how hard they tried).
So it’s a tremendous breakthrough for this administration—and no one should be surprised; that is, everyone with eyes in their head should have seen it coming.
File under: Better late than never?
…which might lead one to ask what else ought they see coming down the pike….
What are our vital interests in the ME? Maybe we should ask our major universities, who thrive on tuitions paid by all those youthful demographics, and on large donations for ME study departments. How many of them besides NYU are opening satellite campuses in Abu Dhabi, for example, this year?
Wow
Thankfully I can now see the absolute brilliance and coherence of Barry’s foreign policy. Sell out all of our allies and cozy up to all our enemies while weakening the values and principles of our founding and running amok with amenesty and appeasement to bascially give whatever is left over to the illegals. Good ole Barry and his leading from behind. The very best president we ever had.
Don’t forget to follow the money too. I would not be surprised if the donors of all the arab countries, china, russia and the rest and lining up with their campaign contributions too.
Pathetic
barry just continues proving to the world how STUPID he is and how pro muslim he is. this is without a doubt the most CORRUPT STUPID and anti American administration I have known in my 75 years on Gods green earth,
“The point which I may have failed to make in the post above is that President Obama, rather than wowing the Arab Street, has now communicated to them his weakness.”
No, you made your point. Although you are preaching to the choir. You guests here at the club are mostly aware that Conflicts are dynamic, that both sides have input to any resolution. Despite daily lessons in that fact from the Duck of Death, they don’t seem to get it over at 1400 Pennsylvania Ave. Foggy Bottom also suffers from occasional bouts of ignorance.
The White house is in the position of initiating situations, not controlling them. having credentials in lieu of wisdom, they confuse the two.
With the Arabs (Muslims) they will of course demand more. Arabs are very weak from a military POV. America isn’t. So the Muslims see this as America offering to do their dirty work.
Israel is in partnership with America to increase BOTH nations military power. Israel technology, American production.
IN current (21st Century) military technology there are 4 major areas where milTech is a game changer. Robotics, Stealth, CREWS (Coherent Radiant Energy Weapons Systems) and “Star Wars” ( the interception of Ballistic missiles). Israel leads the world in Robotic weapons and “Star Wars”. Crews is a tie, with both nations contributing. Stealth is mostly American. That is because Stealth research is expensive. Stealth is just Physics, the Soviets actually did the basic research on stealth, the state just dropped it because the Soviets saw no pay-out for their research rubles.
Israel is in a stronger position then the USA here. Israel has the best technology and only Israel. MANY Nations can provide the manufacturing base Israel lacks. No other nation can provide the technology Israel does. So Israel has the upper hand here.
An Israeli-Chinese milTech agreement will mean the Chinese closing the tech gap within a decade, 2 at the outside. Israel will get as many stealth fighters as it wants.
China gets “Star Wars” and all the Combat droids they want.
They Euros HAVE to respond. On one hand they will be happy about the USA deciding on throwing Israel to the wolves, on the other hand they have the recent example of Libya that should make them wonder what they are being set up for.
All you bible thumpers need to start memorizing Revelations.
I see consequences here for Taiwan as well.
perhaps obama can give back california, new mexico and texas to the mexicans and then perhaps tell israel what it should do.
he’s a hypocrite who has just sold 6 million jews out. anti semitic attacks in europe have got so bad the politicians tell jews to live in israel, and then call for the abolition of israel in the united nations.
history repeating?
This isn’t a poorly thought out plan by Obama. This is exactly as planned. He hates Israel – and Jews too, seems like…he only has to pretend to like the leftwing Jewish idiots in this country who keep giving him money and votes. The idea is for Israel to cease to exist. Period. Get that through your heads…the Israelis damn sure need to get it through their heads. This despicable piece of filth inhabiting the White House will not only not lift a finger to help Israel; he’ll actively help the Islamists bring Israel down.
O’next year in Jerusalem.
…-
“Give Me Osama, I’ll Give you the Jews ( Pastor Manning )”
“Pastor Manning, speaking in 2008, correctly predicted that 3 years after this video was made, 2011, that Obama would “take out” Osama Bin Laden. Pastor Manning goes on to say that a deal would be struck between Obama and Ahmadinejad to exchange Bin Laden for Israel.
Pastor Manning called this one in 2008…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-4oxch8af0I
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2722316/posts
Obama’s next move will be to give America back to Britain. He probably feels that we were wrong to fight against King George.
Or maybe give the western states back to Mexico. That is “Immigration Reform” he can believe in.
Israel and China have been doing a defense related business for some time now, only with the OK on advanced tech given by the US. If the Resident drops Israel in the grease then they will be free to strike any bargain they see fit,certainly this will be to the benefit of the Chinese and Russians, not the US.
Barry also wants to deal with the governments of the MENA to create his illusory Peace Plan, what he misses is that his “Arab Spring” will not provide coherent governments. One of the main reasons the US have dealt with the despots of the MENA for so long is that they were the only reliable unit of government in the area. All of the nations of the MENA are artificial constructs, a bunch Frankenstein’s monsters if you please, with powerful centripidal forces trying to sunder the whole.
Sykes-Picot pretty much gauranteed that there would be trouble when they parcelled out the lands of the Ottomans without regard to the indigenous populations. For the leaders of any of these nations an outside enemy is an absolute must, it allows them to maintain large military forces that can be used to suppress “foreign troublemakers” (just ask Assad how useful they can be).
Regarding the moron/evil analysis of the Resident’s actions I find myself reminded of the old saying; “Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. But if neither malice nor stupidity by itself can completely account for the mess, you may have to conclude you are dealing with malicious idiots” it fits perfectly.
No, Sir. It is YOU, who does not “UNDERSTAND”.
To all of my USEFUL IDIOT, Jewish “Older Cousins”, I say: What did you THINK he was gonna do?
Born to a Muslim/Marxist Father and an Atheist/Communist Mother. Raised in Muslim Indonesia, til the age of 11. Attended MUSLIM SCHOOLS. At Muslim Schools they ;teach’: “Look out! There’s a JEW behind that rock! KILL HIM! He attended MOSQUE. “Death to America! Death to Israel! He knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and prayed to a Muslim God of MURDER, RAPE, MUTILATION and CRUELTY, 5 times a day.
He sat in the Pews of a Vicious RACIST, ANTI-SEMITE, for 20 Years. Had him perform his Marriage. Had him Baptize his children in to his Church of HATE. He attended the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan’s Rallies. His wife is FRIENDS with the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan’s wife. He started his Political Career, in the living room of Domestic Terrorists, and well known JEW HATERS – Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. They have already tried to get one “Aid Boat” past the Israeli Blockade, and are readying another. Skip Gates. The Black Panthers. PLO Recruiter Khalid Rashidi. The L.A. Times is still REFUSING to release the VIDOE, that they have, of Barack Hussein Obama, at his good friend, Khalid the Jew Killer’s Going Away Party. I wonder why they won’t release it? Don’t you?
And, of course, who can forget, the Piasse de Resistance?
If you’d like, you can go to the Official Web Site of HAMAS, and purchase for yourself, a Drinking Mug, emblazoned with the face of ABU HUSSAIN. aka Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro.
HAMAS believes that Obama has been sent by Allah to DESTROY THE JEWS. They have given him the name: ABU HUSSAIN. His picture on the Mugs, has him in an ARAB Hat, with the Traditional Checkered Dish Rag around his neck.
THEY BELIEVE that he is the DELIVORER!
And with his SPEECH, yesterday, they just might be on to something.To all of my USEFUL IDIOT, Jewish “Older Cousins”, I say: What did you THINK he was gonna do?
Born to a Muslim/Marxist Father and an Atheist/Communist Mother. Raised in Muslim Indonesia, til the age of 11. Attended MUSLIM SCHOOLS. At Muslim Schools they ;teach’: “Look out! There’s a JEW behind that rock! KILL HIM! He attended MOSQUE. “Death to America! Death to Israel! He knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and prayed to a Muslim God of MURDER, RAPE, MUTILATION and CRUELTY, 5 times a day.
He sat in the Pews of a Vicious RACIST, ANTI-SEMITE, for 20 Years. Had him perform his Marriage. Had him Baptize his children in to his Church of HATE. He attended the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan’s Rallies. His wife is FRIENDS with the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan’s wife. He started his Political Career, in the living room of Domestic Terrorists, and well known JEW HATERS – Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. They have already tried to get one “Aid Boat” past the Israeli Blockade, and are readying another. Skip Gates. The Black Panthers. PLO Recruiter Khalid Rashidi. The L.A. Times is still REFUSING to release the VIDOE, that they have, of Barack Hussein Obama, at his good friend, Khalid the Jew Killer’s Going Away Party. I wonder why they won’t release it? Don’t you?
And, of course, who can forget, the Piasse de Resistance?
If you’d like, you can go to the Official Web Site of HAMAS, and purchase for yourself, a Drinking Mug, emblazoned with the face of ABU HUSSAIN. aka Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro.
HAMAS believes that Obama has been sent by Allah to DESTROY THE JEWS. They have given him the name: ABU HUSSAIN. His picture on the Mugs, has him in an ARAB Hat, with the Traditional Checkered Dish Rag around his neck.
THEY BELIEVE that he is the DELIVORER!
And with his SPEECH, yesterday, they just might be on to something.
To all of my USEFUL IDIOT, Jewish “Older Cousins”, I say: What did you THINK he was gonna do?
Born to a Muslim/Marxist Father and an Atheist/Communist Mother. Raised in Muslim Indonesia, til the age of 11. Attended MUSLIM SCHOOLS. At Muslim Schools they ;teach’: “Look out! There’s a JEW behind that rock! KILL HIM! He attended MOSQUE. “Death to America! Death to Israel! He knelt on his Prayer Rug, facing Mecca, and prayed to a Muslim God of MURDER, RAPE, MUTILATION and CRUELTY, 5 times a day.
He sat in the Pews of a Vicious RACIST, ANTI-SEMITE, for 20 Years. Had him perform his Marriage. Had him Baptize his children in to his Church of HATE. He attended the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan’s Rallies. His wife is FRIENDS with the JEW HATING, Louis Farrakhan’s wife. He started his Political Career, in the living room of Domestic Terrorists, and well known JEW HATERS – Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. They have already tried to get one “Aid Boat” past the Israeli Blockade, and are readying another. Skip Gates. The Black Panthers. PLO Recruiter Khalid Rashidi. The L.A. Times is still REFUSING to release the VIDOE, that they have, of Barack Hussein Obama, at his good friend, Khalid the Jew Killer’s Going Away Party. I wonder why they won’t release it? Don’t you?
And, of course, who can forget, the Piasse de Resistance?
If you’d like, you can go to the Official Web Site of HAMAS, and purchase for yourself, a Drinking Mug, emblazoned with the face of ABU HUSSAIN. aka Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro.
HAMAS believes that Obama has been sent by Allah to DESTROY THE JEWS. They have given him the name: ABU HUSSAIN. His picture on the Mugs, has him in an ARAB Hat, with the Traditional Checkered Dish Rag around his neck.
THEY BELIEVE that he is the DELIVORER!
And with his SPEECH, yesterday, they just might be on to something.
“in fact, how the Obama’s somehow never even heard them?”
Obama sat in the toxic atmosphere of the infamous reverends church, but he didn’t inhale.
Is there any person other than an Obambi sycophant who truly believes now that he is NOT a Mohammedan. Lets see 1967 Borders so Mohammedans will control ALL of Jerusalem and have the Golan Heights back from where the scum bombarded Israel for decades. Oh yes and he said the imaginary invented PALESTINIANS MUST have a contiguous territory i.e. the Gaza strip connected to the West Bank. Contiguousness is apparently extremely important for Mohammedans but NOT of course for JEWS as to make “Palestine” contiguous you would have to SPLIT Israel in two. See thats where his Mohammedan logic falls apart. BTW the Mohammedan ARAB INVADERS (AKA Palestinians) are only in the Holy Land by CONQUEST. So asking the JEWS to move back to 1967 borders means the MOHAMMEDAN Affirmative Action Anchor Baby President of the USA gives a ‘RIGHT OF CONQUEST” to ARABS but denies that same ‘RIGHT’ to Jews. Still think he’s not a Mohammedan?
Obama and the left in general remind, of gamblers who use “systems” to place their wagers. They stay with the system until they are broke, then they’ll leave until they get some more money and then come back and try again. Casino’s love these guys. The more elaborate or the more rigid a social engineering scheme, a war strategy, or economic policy is, the more likely it is to fail. Life, politics,economics, and war all have too many inter-related aspects that raise the possibilities of things not reacting as the system predicts of almost infinity. There is a tendency also to use what sorta works in one field and then apply it to another field even though the ones applying it are very ignorant about the new field. Using the military to crusade for gender and sexual preference rights is an example.
The left has this fixation that if Israel goes away the Middle East becomes peaceful, progressive, and a wonder land. Uh, don’t think so. “Well we’re out of Jews let’s do something about those miserable Sunni and the Great Satan.”
Are you surprised, Mr. Fernandez? Is anyone reading this really surprised by President Obama’s direction, but only by his brazenness?
Real Friends
Obama for the Brits and Israelis,
Our allies, has some enmities.
He doesn’t follow Yule,
Half the golden rule,
And that half is he loves our enemies. –me
So he talks to the Brits perforce,
To China and Brazil till he hoarse.
With Mid-East he confads
And to Russia he blabs;
With Israel he has intercourse.
Probably the most puzzling thing that Obama said in the speech, perhaps even the most puzzling thing he has ever said, was “The protesters succeeded in doing in a few years what the terrorists were unable to do in decades.”
In the late 1930′s Adolph Hitler said “Give me 5 years and you will not be able to recognize your cities.” And thanks to the RAF and the USAAF that promise was fulfilled. But the objectives of the Allied effort were very different from what Hitler meant. So would we say that allied airpower achieved what Hitler himself could not? Technically, yes, but it hardly means the same thing.
Equating the objectives of the “Arab Spring” protesters and the Middle Eastern terrorists sounds downright delusional. And if it was not delusional, what does it really mean?
9. a Duoist
“If the demographics in the Middle East for the past ninety years continue for the next ninety years, just before the turn of this century (2097-2098) Israel will become majority Arab Muslim with the world’s largest Jewish minority.”
Where are your numbers from? What is margin of error for the 2098 predictions, and who is assuming demographic trends of the past 90 years will continue? It’s obvious that the factors that allowed rapid population growth among the arabs are not continuing.
The past 70 years have seen multiple predictions of a demographic future that never arrived.
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2010/05/demographic-scarecrow-bomb.html
“The robust Jewish demographic tailwind and Arab demographic headwind are demonstrated through the absolute annual number of Jewish and Arab births in pre-1967 Israel. While the annual number of Arab births stabilized at 39,000 during 1995-2009, the annual number of Jewish births surged by 50% from 80,400 in 1995 to 121,000 in 2009”
Turns out the Jews are making enough babies to retain a majority. And the number of local Arabs has been inflated to get more foreign aid. Israel has had a large Muslim minority since 48. If Israel kills the terrorists then a large Muslim minority is not a problem. When you take out the trouble makers the rest behave better.
New York City Emergency Demonstration for Israel Today Friday at Noon.
Outside Israeli Consulate, 800 2nd Avenue and 42nd Street, New York City.
Jews are NOT going back to Auschwitz!
stoicheion writes, “With the USA out of the picture, China would be a logical place to sell “star Wars” technology. Russia and China would get into a bidding war.
Then there is India.”
I for one don’t want Israeli military technology going to Russia or China. Like the US, both are big power players. But their interests often clash with those of Israel, which to them is small potatoes. That’s why they do deals with Syria and Iran – selling them advanced arms *knowing* they target Israel, voting against Israel in international forums, weakening international sanctions, etc.
India is another matter. Unlike China and Russia, India is a democracy. India knows what Islamic terror is, having Pakistan as a neighbor. So while Israel has expanded trade over the last decade with all three, only with India has there been extensive military and strategic cooperation.
24. kenny komodo
“Remember Stuxnet”
Yes, it was a joint Israeli-American program started under the Bush admin. I would guess the Israelis got it uploaded.
30. Annoy Mouse
“In regards to handing out billions to Israel is concerned, let us buy technology from them and they can earn their billions the old fashion way.”
The billions in military assistance we give Israel has to be spent in the US. They buy our weapons, planes, uniforms, boots.
Also, we fund their missile defense and get access to the technology to use in our missile defense, so we are already buying that technology. We also incorporate their upgrades into our planes – the HUD, electronics, and some avionics on the newer block F16s and F15s are Israeli tech. And our drones are based on Israeli stuff.
Every thing that Obama says has an expiration date…everything.
A Duoist #9:
And how many of Israel’s problems are caused by the Arab portion of their population? None that I know of. They could leave and go live among their Arab brothers any time they wanted but none seem to be doing that, just like the Mexicans living in the US that could go home any time they wish if they think that culture so superior.
There are exactly two countries where Arabs can go vote and elect an Arab representative to democratic government to represent them: Israel, and now, thanks to the USA, Iraq.
Has anyone asked the Arabs living as citizens, yes, as citizens, in Israel, if they wish to live under Arab control? I do not recall hearing that, and in any case, they vote daily by refusing to move their feet.
#9. a Duoist
I would like to extend this thought a little further. The logical immigration of the Israelites would be to the United States. This could easily boost our population with largely talented people that would be well educated and accomplished. In turn this would present to the outside world a nation of largely well informed people that would recognize the Islamic menace that is busy terrorizing the rest of the world. Yes, Obama’s green revolution would lead us to something positive finally. With the Isrealite’s skills and inventiveness it would help the United States in a major way. The presence of the new Jewish population would be militant towards the Islamistists, and how could that be a bad thing?
Jay, my point is that we have the basis of military collaboration and trade already with Israel and the idea of “hand-outs” only perverts the relationship. If we are giving Israel “aid” then we must tell them what they can and can’t do with it and I think that is a poor basis for friendship and economic ties. We are actively withholding technology from Israel because the government is trying to appease the Arabs. I could go on in detail but believe me contractors are constantly briefed on not sharing technology with Israel. It truly is a special relationship, one based on lies and subterfuge.
The Saudi’s can trade for our aircraft with dollars, oil, or camels for that matter and Egypt and Pakistan can do the same. This convoluted nutshell game is an open lie and the sooner that the greatest so-called democracy on earth starts acting like one with free and open transparency the better. This idea that we give them money then they give it back is crap. We should openly support peace promoting democracies rather doing everything on the down low. These arrangement fool nobody and only enrich the power brokers in State while alienating those who are being lied to.
westerncanadian,
” Not a good choice though – between clueless, misguided and a ruling self obsession.”
It’s actually a combination of all three – not only in him, but also in his staff/advisors.
Credit Man
It is too early to start divvying up the spoils.
Bibi should just ask for one of the Obama Waivers.
Are we going to hear that the United States should go back to pre 1776 borders, and the native Indians will be given their rightful State?
Probably not; Since this is all too consistent with Obama’s International Foreign Policy, and makes the same sense Obama’s statement about Israel does.
This is what happens when you deem a child an adult, and try to give them grownup responsibilities.
History. That odd thing Obama missed on his way to the classes on Marx. It is replete with alliances formed due to necessity. I think most folks that did some homework in 2008 knew Obama’s would toss Israel under the bus. You can debate the reasons but fact is Israel is staring at the read end of the bus rolling away from them.
Does any really think Israel will wait two years hoping Obama is defeated and sanity restored. Laughable. So, what course now? If you’re of a Bible Revelations, you’d think the North – meaning maybe Russia. If you’re thinking Asian domination, then you’d think China. If you’re thinking weasels seeking to satisfy their world importance and get some Israel natural, you’d be thinking France. Then there’s a choice that is a mix and you’d be thinking Germany.
If I were Israel, I’d pick China or Russia or France. Each is a permanent member of the UN Security Council and can block aggressive UN actions against Israel. Russia already has fingers in the Middle East and a long presence. France would love to become important again and has a broad technology base. China is an arms source for some in the middle east and there have been reports that Israel has sold arms to China.
Imho, France is not trustworthy and Israel would likely take Paris only as a last resort. Russia doesn’t have much to gain from an alliance with Israel but has a huge strategic and economic reasons to allign with the Gulf oil states (baring those pesky Muslim terrorists). That leaves China. It would be a marriage where each nation reaps huge benefits. China gets modern weapons systems along with technology expertise of the Israelis while Israel gets a reliable veto in the UN, extensive trade and a buyer for it’s natural gas production. For example, suppose the UN Security Council floats a condemnation of Israel along with a peacekeeping mission? Which permanent member would veto it and not care much what the Arab world thought about it?
Watch the video…again.
We con the world: The truth will never find its way to your TV
“President Obama’s words are not just speeches”. Check that. To President Obama and his advisors it is just a speech with no consequences. They wouldn’t know a consequence even if a tiger bit them. And the tiger will do so soon enough.
I wonder if the rest of the world understands Obama represents the US in name only? He certainly has no moral authority and he does not speak for the average American or their values. The Israelis are like the rest of us… just trying to hold on and limit the damage until Obama is out of office.
It will be interesting to see if Iran and the rest are content to let Obama carry their water for them or if they go ahead and start trying to drive the Jews into the sea. Syria and Iran could both use distractions from their internal troubles.
But I think what will ultimately hold them back is that Iran is being allowed to create its own nuclear arsenal with no real interference. Once that is complete it is a whole new ballgame and the time when a terrorist group is handed a nuclear weapon won’t be far off. Do you really think a people that regularly tie themselves to bombs in the hopes of taking out a toddler or two will hesitate to use such things if they have them?
#37 If you doubt this maybe you can tell me how Barack and Michele Obama and their daughters sat in the anti American, anti Semitic, anti Israel, and Black racist congregation of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright for twenty years and yet never found any of the good Reverend’s anti American, anti Israel, anti Semitic, and anti White diatribes deplorable, in fact, how the Obama’s somehow never even heard them?
How? Because he lied, that’s how.
cedarhill
it would better that Israel relies on Germany’s UN seat, I’m telling you
“The protesters succeeded in doing in a few years what the terrorists were unable to do in decades.”
So the goals of the protesters were the same as those of the terrorists? Namely, the creation of a Caliphate over the whole world, starting with Tunisia and Egypt? I believe it, but I can hardly believe Obama said it in public.
Obama said, “Middle East politics is hard!” And he has come a-cropper big time. He cannot get Hamas and Fatah to agree to 1967 borders while retaining settlements and without a “right of return”, which would doom Israel. And he cannot get Israel to agree on giving up Jerusalem. So he will have no agreement by the end of his first term. If he has a second term, he will have to give more to the Palis while also assuring at least status quo to the Israelis to get an agreement. In other words, he can’t do it. Checkmate.
1. give the Israeli’s a large tract of Alaska.
2. In exchange the Israeli’s will trade only with the USA.
3. Allow the Israeli’s to drill for oil and sell it to the USA.
4. Let the arabs figure out what to do with the palistinian’s after they tear former Israel apart each getting their piece of the pie.
t @ 55: Obama and the left in general remind, of gamblers who use “systems” to place their wagers. They stay with the system until they are broke, then they’ll leave until they get some more money and then come back and try again. Casino’s love these guys.
Yes, exactly, leading to the “doubling down” we often talk about.
I suspect much about Obama follows this model, it’s not that he understands the game – he doesn’t. He knows just enough to be dangerous, and only a limited repetoire of moves. Does not even understand that one result of bad play is big loss.
I’m wondering if Barry’s Jewish voter’s are finally having buyer’s remorse !!
Good question Toronto Girl !
Truth is if he had just left out a two digit number there would have been no big problem. I could not understand why he did that until Wretchard explained it. Makes perfect sense now.
I would like to say he killed the peace process again but the peace process has been one of the walking dead for sometime. It is aleady dead but gets up from time to time to feed on the living. He did manage to piss off both Israelis and Palestinians at the same time which seems to be what he does best.
Sad day for everyone. Nobody got what they wanted and the Arab Springers are less than enthusiastic about the arm-chuck ‘atta boy’ he threw their way.
All around fail. As Golda once said about the Palestinians, Obama “never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity”
The only upside is that I think Bibi will get an even warmer reception from congress because of it.
A president with muslim roots and a marxist education at the head of a radical administration.
And you expect him and his administration to help America, or Israel ?
PS
“Subversion”, from sub-vertere, to put upside-down.
And that’s what the subversives do. Chaos and disorder are the goals of any good subversive. Just chaos and disorder. They cannot prevail without chaos and disorder.
69. cedarhill
An Israel-China alliance is laughable.
China gets a huge chunk of their oil from KSA and Iran. China has their own natural gas and the fields off the Israeli coast are not yet operational. And China steals military tech directly from the US. They also have a sizable Muslim population in the west that would be upset.
China is allied with Pakistan to contain India, and built the Paks their reactor and sold them ballistic missiles. Israel provides weapons technology to India. China is also thick in selling weapons and tech to Syria and Iran (and possible Qadafi). They are already profiting more from trade with the anti-Israel camp than they would with tiny Israel.
Russia would be an interesting partner, but they too are enmeshed in the Syria/Iran camp to be reliable at the UN. If Russia’s muslim terror problems get a lot worse then maybe they would see eye to eye with Israel.
You are correct that France is unreliable – Israel already was allied with France in the 50s-60s and Paris dumped Israel for the Arabs, though that has not helped them any.
Basically there is no point for Israelis to hope that the UN to be a fair broker at all. Maybe if Bolton was still our man at the UN and India had a permanent security council seat. The US is the best friend Israel has, and right now that is not saying much!
Israelis ought to do their best to keep friendly with the US, but make it clear that they are not going to surrender to terrorists to score points for the US outreach program.
“Israel already was allied with France in the 50s-60s and Paris dumped Israel for the Arabs, though that has not helped them any.”
1967 exactly when Israel launched its blitz krieg on Arabs, against de Gaulle and many other countries. It hasn’t unhelp France, just that Israel decided to buy arms from america then !
LR/59, Jews are NOT going back to Auschwitz!
–if you were a Martian watching all this thru a telescope, you might interpret the early UN’s helpful role in re-establishing the ancient homeland of Auschwitz survivors, only to soon flip and spend a half-dozen decades driving every real existential-threat wrapped in utter narrative bogosity in the book against that nation, as a case of Israel itself being the new and improved Auschwitz, where the war-scattered survivors and escapees from the first one could be lured back (by the dream of defensible borders) and penned up so that the unpeople –oops i mean the UN people –could ‘finish the job’.
By repositioning the US policy on Israel-Arab relations in redefining the state of Israel as the pre 1967 war boundaries, my President has made history. However the dog that did not bark, may announce the greater change. George Mitchell, Obama’s first highly publicized Ambassador chosen to sort this conflict out, just quit. Other than raising global temperatures by the exhaust of his zillion jet flights to the area, it is most difficult to discern one iota of change from his sojourns. He follows the late Warren Christopher as a frequent flier who brought back nothing, certainly no peace.
A central Democratic criticism of G. Bush was his benign neglect of this conflict. Bush held that it was not within the power of the US to improve the situation so he did not expend political capital on a failed mission. What is new? The Arab spring, bloody revolt from Morocco to India. Can anyone predict an improvement? Is peace at hand, any where? Can any one pronounce a cogent foreign policy across this blood soaked dirt. We war in Libya to protect innocents, while thousands are shot in Syria, Bahrain, and Yemen. Is Obama’s efforts defusing Iran’s proxy war on Israel? Has he won the hearts and minds of the Arab street? Can he dissuade Hamas from killing every Jew east of the Mediterranean?
I think George Mitchell is much more experienced than his boss, and got tired of drinking coffee at 45,000 ft.
I think our US policy should be clear to friend and foe:
We must deal with whoever is in charge, fiend or friend,
We much prefer educated, moral, democratic peaceful nations,
People must not kill each other over religious differences,
We are not in charge, we have limited power, we have limited money,
Neighbors must either resolve their boundary conflicts, or go to war,
Israel is tiny, Arabia is huge, and we will not let Arabs drive Jews into the sea,
If any Arab nation first uses a nuclear weapon on Israel, we will reciprocate on that nation,
We will extract our own carbon fuels and greatly reduce our dependence on murderous foreign oil sources.
RLH/85, and failing all that i would encourage little David, as he goes down slingin’ before the phalanx of oil-drunk Goliaths, to please sling one at DC, and give his American friends the God-send of a ‘do-over’.
Obama splits America on racial groups by opposing them as in his speech toward “Latinos”.On international arena Obama-dissenter opposes Muslims and non-Muslims.Declaring his Christianity he simply attribute Christians and Jews in the group that opposes Muslims. The “Arab spring” is the primary reaction of the Muslims to Obama`s appeal.The Iranian military base is the next.
Anti-Israel position of Obama and EU reflects their incomprehension of the Muslim policy that remind me the policy of “pacification” of Hitler by selling him Czecho-Slovakia in 1938.We know the end of this story!
Let `s stop the second Munich!
mc @ 83: 1967 exactly when Israel launched its blitz krieg on Arabs, against de Gaulle and many other countries. It hasn’t unhelp France, just that Israel decided to buy arms from america then !
It’s easy to forget now, but Israel against Arabia 1967 was also a proxy fight between the US and USSR, the total defeat of the huge Soviet-equipped armies by tiny Israel with US technology, was one of the most important battles of the “cold” war.
France had already opted for their own third-way by then, couldn’t be bothered one way or the other, not to mention still being peeved about Suez 1956.
9. a Duoist
Why not relocate the Arabs? Why is it always the Jews who have to move?
Re. #78. will “I’m wondering if Barry’s Jewish voter’s are finally having buyer’s remorse !!”
You shouldn’t, because they do not: Their IQ distribution has unusually thick tails with distribution mean slightly shifted to the right. That means that as a group they generate disproportional number of both very bright and extremely stupid people. So the left tail + average =~75%
M Simon @ 89: after the Israelis are done with them, it will be both necessary and feasible to move the surviving Arabs. In a dinghy.
Re. #80. spindok “As Golda once said about the Palestinians, Obama “never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity”
Just a small nit-pick: The qoute is from Abba Eban.
Josh said:
Of course, the Israelis and US high-tech weaponry were pretty much a match made in heaven. Which other middle eastern country would be able to use those weapons as well and not screw everything up?
OTOH, the Israelis could just as easily use less high tech stuff made by the Russians or the Chinese …
Re. #93. Make Believe Media: “OTOH, the Israelis could just as easily use less high tech stuff made by the Russians or the Chinese …”
They do not need foreign high tech, they have their own. What they do need, and cannot produce is ammunition.
39. Ed Barbar
Here is how we sever ourselves (and the world) from ME oil:
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2011/04/catching-wave.html
Think about an increase of engine efficiency by a factor of 2 to 5 (depending on the object chosen for comparison).
Ben i oui oui?
“Anti-Israel position of Obama and EU reflects their incomprehension of the Muslim policy that remind me the policy of “pacification” of Hitler by selling him Czecho-Slovakia in 1938.We know the end of this story!
Let `s stop the second Munich!”
ZZZZZZZZ, the Godwin argument
Victor should be registered under Foreign Agents Registration Act FARA.
Josh
it’s because of 1956, that de Gaulle deducted that one can only rely on him/herself !
I say we grant the Israelis a large tract from West Tx to SoCal. That will be the only way we will ever get a secure southern border. Team 44 has the tiger by the tail but the grip of questionable integrity is on the last stripe.
stoiecheion:
Just in case you hadn’t noticed, Iran has been controlled by a hostile regime for the past thirty-two years.
If the idea of selling F-4’s to a state that would later become hostile on the basis of lowering the cost of one’s own fighters were such a good idea, why don’t we sell weapons to Iran now? Why not sell our weapons to Syria?
For that matter, think of all of the jobs created and lower costs for our Defense Department if the United States sold fighters, bombers, ships, tanks, missiles, and nuclear weapons to hostile countries. After all, if al-Qaeda is going to get nukes anyway, why not make sure that the jobs to create those weapons go to Americans? Our nuclear arsenal would be much cheaper if we sold nukes to the highest bidders.
There are reasons why the United States withholds technology from hostile states. Unlike the State Department, I don’t happen to regard Israel as a hostile state.
Concerning Iran, I think Jimmy Carter made a bad situation worse, but I have my doubts that any American president would have been able to keep Ayatollah Khomeini out of power.
In any case, it appears to be a feature of the American political system that we get a “messianic” president who attacks friends and helps enemies about once every other generation. There appears to be something in the psychology of a sizable portion of the American electorate that demands to vote for someone such as Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama. These men happen to be the closest facsimiles to Shabbatai Zevi on the American political scene.
#93 Make Believe Media
“Of course, the Israelis and US high-tech weaponry were pretty much a match made in heaven. Which other middle eastern country would be able to use those weapons as well and not screw everything up?”
Actually, your point about the Israelis getting the same results with Russian or Chinese hardware is well taken. Because most of the hardware they used to hammer the “United Arab Republic” forces into the sand in 1967 wasn’t American.
The Israeli Air Force was mostly equipped with French Dassault Mirage III jet fighters and Sud Aviation Vautour jet tactical bombers. (The Mirage is pretty well known, but the nearly-forgotten Vautour was a twin-engined swept-wing bomber along the lines of the English Electric Canberra.) Most of the ordnance they dropped was French-made, as well, notably the “concrete dibber” runway-cratering bombs.
The Israeli Army’s primary tank at the time was the M50 Sherman, a modified M4A3 with a French-designed 75mm gun. The even nastier M51 “Isherman” version used a 105mm gun, also French. The heavy elements were British-made Centurion III MBTs, bought directly from the UK, and U.S. M48s with 90mm guns, the latter bought second hand from the West German Bundeswehr, ironically enough.
And the standard rifle was the FN FAL 7.62 NATO- from Belgium.
It wasn’t until the 1973 Yom Kippur War that substantial quantities of up-to-date, state-of-the-art U.S. equipment was used by the Israeli Defense Forces, notably F-4E Phantom multirole fighters, A-4 Skyhawk attack bombers, and M60 MBTs. And a lot of those were rushed to Israel to replace battle losses, directly from U.S. war stocks in Western Europe. The orders for said replenishment coming directly from President Richard Nixon. (One of the few things “Tricky Dick” ever did I wholeheartedly concurred with.)
The Israelis fight effectively with any weapons, from anywhere. I suspect mainly because they are all too aware that the one thing they can never afford- is losing.
cheers
eon
Alexis,
“If the idea of selling F-4’s to a state that would later become hostile on the basis of lowering the cost of one’s own fighters were such a good idea, why don’t we sell weapons to Iran now? Why not sell our weapons to Syria?”
Are you serious with that question? You don’t see the difference?
M. Simon;Why not relocate the Arabs? Why is it always the Jews who have to move?
A grand idea.
Build a new city, with water, power and all the necessary infrastructure, somewhere in the Sinai, a sufficiently safe distance from Israel and pack off all, and I mean all the Pali’s into it. Then let them have their Palestinian State there and declare the distance to Israel, and the former Palestinian territories, save some areas for settlements, a demilitarized zone.
Then declare “Peace at last” are dare the Islamists to complain further, which of course they will. Essentially call the Palestinian’s bluff. They want a state of their; then give them one -somewhere else. The land that Israel now inhabits was of little interest to the Arabs, until the Jews came in numbers and established their own state in the ummah. It’s only self loathing deference to predatory Islamic sensibilities that there is an issue at all.
i hope a youtube comes online of the last five minutes of the meeting today in the oval office. PM Netanyahu, in a quiet, reflective voice, made some ‘big picture’ remarks that were very, very good. Try to find them –the news shows will over-edit the reports and lose the meaning and impact.
95. M. Simon
Not the Wave Disk con!
You must note that he’s spent large on publicity and artwork — but has no working model.
It can’t possibly deliver on such numbers — basic laws of physics. ( Carnot limit )
98. Marie Claude
Wrong. Not 1956 it was 1962… De Gaulle absolutely freaked when he witnessed the amateur hour: Kennedy blew the Cuban Missile Crisis. Unlike the American press, he saw it for what it was. From that moment on de Gaulle ramped up his freedom of action. He figured that stepping out from under the American atomic umbrella would permit France to survive a super-power atomic exchange.
But it was all a fantasy. It is now known for a fact that both America and the USSR were going to hit the entire opposing alliances in massive counter-value ( i.e. culture destroying ) blasts. That was a shock to France and China — both of whom figured that they could avoid such an exchange by going down a third road.
Moscow figured Paris and London were trivial pawns of Washington. The battle plan would have destroyed them first. ( closer, that’s why. )
Washington penciled in Burma, Vietnam, China, Warsaw Pact, Tito, Cuba and Nork for complete ruin. There would be no enemy survivors of any stripe to claim a world without America.
—–
Bibi has too much savvy to blow up Israel’s strategic relationship when the Wan is in such electoral trouble.
He also has the House of Representatives as a lever against the Resident’s perversity.
Coalition warfare is brutally difficult to pull off. Now that Cairo is Salafist or Army run ( either way ) Damascus will not be enthused. A repetition of the 67 or 73 campaigns is unlikely.
—–
For those with short memories: the 67 war was fought with FRENCH arms — not American.
French jets obliterated the Arabs — flown by Israelis.
The I-Sherman was a rebuilt highly modified Easy Eight WWII Sherman — with FRENCH 105 gun.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/sherman/M-51.html
—-
The hidden backstory for the 67 war was Dimona.
It was spotted by Moscow. The entire Nasserite agitprop campaign against Tel Aviv turned on Moscow’s desire to use Arab puppets to invade and destroy Dimona.
The Israelis moved against him before he shifted from talk-talk to war-war. Whoops!
—-
The Egyptian Air Force was destroyed on the ground because Nasser had parked his planes outside the range of Israeli jets — for the most part.
So Tel Aviv reworked their tankage and flight profiles to bring them back within range! Whoops! Many Israeli jets made no more than two passes; then they flew back home landing on fumes.
Well, so much for expert Soviet advice.
( The Egyptian basing scheme was based upon the Soviet experience: June 1941. Don’t get destroyed on the first day; then overwhelm the enemy with numbers.)
—–
De Gaulle was most unhappy with the 67 war. So much so that he cut Israel off — to include weapons already paid for!
It was then that the US stepped up and replaced France as Israel’s primary weaponeer.
—–
Since Egypt fields hundreds of M1A1 tanks you can bet that the IDF is developing counter-weapons at this time. That’s not a positive development.
Saw the fox news (Megan Kelly show) recap of Bibi’s talk (w Obama) The blond panelist with the strange haircut thought Bibi’s comments were shear genius on Obama’s part. (obviously he directed Bibi on what to say). I’m still scratching my head…I still don’t know if he ever passed Math.
94 grrr
Israel cannot produce ammunition? You can buy surplus IDF ammunition online!
What Israel needs militarily are aircraft and bunker busters.
What they really need is spine to stand up to the people who are trying to get them to slit their wrists, and for people in the US to wake up to the reality that the Israelis are the best friends we have got and are fighting on our side in the war on terror.
unsk/103, not only that, but the Palis during WWII, under the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, had actively and openly allied themselves with the Axis –and when the Axis lost the war, the Grand Mufti and his peoples did too. This fact is oft forgotten, and when considered adds a whole new important dimension to the interpretation of the immediate post-war period. Put succinctly, history is a record of peoples who make war on other peoples and shows a comprehensive time and space-wide human practice wherein if the aggressors then lose that war, they lose some real estate too, and as permanently as can be maintained going forward.
Eon #101:
“It wasn’t until the 1973 Yom Kippur War that substantial quantities of up-to-date, state-of-the-art U.S. equipment was used by the Israeli Defense Forces, notably F-4E Phantom multirole fighters, A-4 Skyhawk attack bombers ….”
The IDF got A-4′s and F-4′s from the US after the 1967 Six Day War. The F-4 was used for almost all of the long range strike missions in the 1973 Yom Kipper War and the A-4 was used extensively for close air support.
At the start of the war the IDF had 150 A-4′s, 140 F-4′s, 50 Mirage III, 8 Vatour and 12 Super Mystere.
The IDF lost 120 aircraft during the war and got at least 48 F-4E’s and as many as 80 A-4′s as replacements. The Arabs lost at least 450 aircraft.
90. grrr
There are two dominant sub-groups of American Jewry: Ashkenazi and Sephardic.
The first wave Jewish-Americans were Ashkenazi and they were a major force in the settling of the West. Typically they became the town’s general store owner, mayor, sheriff and landlord. All that was needed: a blacksmith…
Ashkenazi IQs norm out to 115ish. Thusly they are over-represented in every mentally demanding field.
The massive Jewish immigrant wave of the late 19th Century — early 20th Century was composed of both groups.
Sephardic IQs norm out to 103ish. ( This should drift higher )
There are serious differences between Sephardic rites and Ashkenazi rites. So one of the first things Jews do is discover if their co-religionist is Sephardic or Ashkenazi — and then whether they are Orthodox, Reformed, etc.
( Too many sub-divisions to list )
However, WRT politics, both groups were traumatized by the Czar and Adolf. Somehow, like African-Americans, Liberal Jews live with selective political memories.
Whereas Blacks seem to live in a completely inverted Orwellian ‘memory’ of the Democrat Party…
Liberal Jews apparently do not absorb any American history that didn’t include them. That is, American history is entirely self-referential for them. Thusly Jewish interest in the American Revolution, the Federalist Papers, our Civil War is quite minimal. Unlike almost all intellectual endeavors, Jews are under-represented as historians of these periods.
In contrast, 20th Century America is of intense interest. And, to a shocking degree, Liberal Jews take the Frankfurt School to be their ‘founding fathers.’
At a fundamental level, perhaps their DNA, Jews cannot see themselves as anything other than politically powerless and in perpetual peril from Christians. That orientation is foundational, so much so that even in a republican-democracy without classism they still fear the government.
I’ve seen this first hand.
( Not that such attitudes are anything unique to Jews; these days paranoia stalks the heartland. )
Jewish hyper-involvement in the Civil Rights movement centered on countering government driven injustice.
It is with fulsome irony that Liberal Jews and African Americans aligned with the Democrat Party. This very same party that gave America Jim Crow, the KKK, the Civil War and Dred Scott!
( Not as if Japanese Americans exit their internment camps to vote for the Democrat machine — FDR having interned them via executive order!)
In all of these groups myth is taken as history.
I’ve got Liberal blood relatives. It’s the same with them. They live in the moment and have no historical memories.
So, in sum, no matter how smart you are, if you have no historical perspective then you drift into the fantasy space of Liberalism.
This, when coupled to groupthink and social proof, explains why brilliant Jews can live in arrogant innocence.
Which is maddening.
To argue with such a person is to find that their convictions flow from operant conditioning — the legacy of collective victimization.
It is this collective experience ( Fiddler on the Roof ) that drives Jews towards fuzzy love of government as villain, government as cure. I’ve heard both from the same lips time and again!
“The government is really screwing things up; we need to start a new government program.” (!)
——
Your basic proposition that there are a lot of Jews at the left end of the IQ scale is entirely false.
Actually Israel did make its own fighter jet in the 1980s, the Lavi.
Although partly funded by US it got scrapped because the US did not want a competitor for its own aircraft. Israel could not afford to produce it only for domestic use so end of deal.
For things like fighter planes and helicopters you need a big market to make it feasible.
I thought the ammunition comment was ironic because that was the first thing the Hagana did was set up underground ammunition factories, before they could even make a rifle.
The comment may be about the US resupply operation during the 1973 war. There was a huge airlift of heavy weapons, planes, air and anti tank missiles and various other items from the US during that war. At the same time the Soviets were resupplying Egypt and Syria.
The war was so intense that both sides were depleted in ammunition, tanks and artillery before the fighting was halfway over.
Blert
a original interview of de Gaulle on Israel after the 1967 war (video)
(a bit acerbic)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3putt_de-gaulle-sur-israel_news
and a article saying that the french population, contrary to de Gaulle was applauding Israel
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2007/06/BERG/14839
In a previous post you said that France was allowed to experience her first atomic tests, as a Eisenhower compension for having made France aborting the Suez campain
MC
You are under a mis-impression: I never said, “that France was allowed to experience her first atomic tests, as a Eisenhower compension for having made France aborting the Suez campain.” (sic)
France built up her atomic program on the QT.
America was shocked as to just how fast and how CHEAPLY the French pulled it off.
IIRC, she did not use gaseous diffusion. Instead, liquid-liquid exchange was used.
But France, like any other country, wouldn’t have had the authorisation to build her nuclear industry if the US hadn’t given their green light !
“how fast and how CHEAPLY”
don’t forget that Radio-activity was discovered in France by the Jolliot-Curie, and still entertained and pursued as researches behind the curtains by the scientists, even through the different wars that we passed through from WW2
exhelodrvr:
When one sells weapons to an unstable dictatorship that is prone to revolution, one takes a chance that that those weapons will wind up in the hands of the revolutionaries. In some places, the risk is low. In others, the risk comes close to the certainty of revolution. Where the risk of anti-American revolution is very high, selling high tech weaponry to such a state makes about as much sense as selling high tech weaponry directly to one’s enemies. Of course, that is exactly what Loral did with China back in the mid-1990’s…
“Although partly funded by US it got scrapped because the US did not want a competitor for its own aircraft. Israel could not afford to produce it only for domestic use so end of deal.”
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/lavi.html
pinched
“Grumman was responsible for the design and development of the wing and the fin, and would produced at least the first 20 wings and fins.”
It used an American engine, American wings and the fuselage off the F-16. Not sure why you call it an Israeli aircraft? IIRC, Turkey produces the F-16, or at least assembles them from imported subsections. Does that make the F-16T a Turkish aircraft? The F-16 is produced by several nations. Israel just bolted a different wing on theirs.
I think the problems had more to do with Grumman then Israel. At the time, there were serious issues with how Grumman Marketed the F-14. People went to jail. The F-14 order was curtailed. Grumman was under a cloud. Washington wanted Grumman out of business. Building parts for foreign nations seemed to be a way to get out from under the boot of DoD. DoD wasn’t all that happy about that. Or at least that is what I remember from those days. My memory ain’t what it used to be.
Sometimes it isn’t all about the Jews. Co-ink-see-dink does happen, just not very often.
There never was an Arab country of Palestine. Jerusalem is mentioned hundreds of times in the Bible, not once in the Koran.
In Islam, a peace agreement is A TEMPORARY ceasefire. And in Islam, peace is achieved when a hated infidel nation is attacked and conquered.
Obama and his administration are making the world SAFER for Muslim terrorists and a much more dangerous place for Israel and the world’s non-Muslims.
Demanding little Israel surrender half her highly cherished BIBLICAL homeland and capital to barbaric enemies bent on Jewish genocide is the greatest betrayal in all of history. It is despicable and profoundly evil.
Josh wrote
Does not even understand that one result of bad play is big loss.
When you only play with other people’s money that lesson is almost never learned. Today’s world is plagued with a class of academics and government technocrats who continue to thrive even as their pet theories destroy other people’s lives.
Ya know, I’m all for having Israel go back to the 1967 borders…
As they were on 15 June 1967.
S/F, Vern
Predicted in 2008:
http://youtu.be/-4oxch8af0I
The other thing that drove aircraft losses on the Israeli side so high in 1973 was the introduction of Soviet ZSU-23-4 guns and SA-6 missiles. It was a sufficient surprise that it took the IDF a while to figure out a counter for both. Cheers -
‘Ya know, I’m all for having Israel go back to the 1967 borders…
As they were on 15 June 1967.’
S/F, Vern
good for you vern, perhaps you can lead by example and give california back to the mexicans then. at least that way you don’t come across as a hypocrite.
gary, the Six Day War was over on 10 June, 1967. By 15 June the Sinai had been cleared of Arab military units and the IDF was in full command.
YBR (sorry to bring the topic here)
“One might credibly ask if the wife loves (loved??) the husband as a proxy for power – a proxy that comes wrapped in an acceptable, possibly attractive, human form? If the answer is yes, that bodes ill for women who have professional aspirations, and, for a species that some of us, at least, thought capable of far more than relationships dominated by pirates, barbarians and ‘suggested guidelines’ of behavior.”
Well she is the one that has wealthiness (several ten millions of euros)and it’s probably true that she wanted more power, but couldn’t assume her will by herself, and need to find the right “horse”. She is intelligent, a good communicator, and organisator, DSK was her extension.
if you want to understand DSK psychology, these two articles are very “explicit”
(in french that you can read)
http://www.lefigaro.fr/sante/2011/05/21/01004-20110521ARTFIG00002-certains-seducteurs-n-acceptent-pas-la-resistance.php
DSK, la PS et le bûcher des vanités http://t.co/lqOZGuY
In resumé, they say that DSK was a tired man, that he didn’t want to become president of France, but couldn’t exteriorise it, and his “sex” assault in Sofitel manifested of his fed up to play a part in a play that he didn’t want to, and doing so liberated him, and now he can become a serene man, like in Tom wolfe book: “The Bonfire of the Vanities”
122. gary ashton
You’re breathing the Leftist anti-nativist meme: the Mexicans never lived in California circa 1840 and prior…
The natives of the Bay Area ( San Francisco ) were still living in the stone age — not even master of agriculture!
The Jesuit monks brought farming to them.
While these stone age tribes have devolved into junkies an casino magnates and other lowlifes…
That they lived in the stone age there is no doubt. ( No Mayan or Aztec cultural links at all )
Bing: Folsom points…
If you care, I can waltz you through the Winn Tun’s ancient chert knapping sites. ( chert = flint ) Said chert was brought up and out from Marin County into the Valley — it’s not native to the Winn Tun tribal home grounds. However, the ancients imported so much chert it’s astounding. ( Its color difference makes it stand out like crazy. )
It’s the WINN TUN and other native tribes that lived in California — not Mexicans — nor anyone else.
Read the Jesuit accounts. To their astonishment the local tribes were time warped back … 15,000 years. Pre-agriculture, pre-pottery, pre-metal, pre-agriculture… pre-everything!
The crazy idea that California EVER belonged to the Mexicans is just that: crazy.
Cheers.
( c.f. Jededia Smith and his accounts of California locals; Louis and Clark and their accounts. )
MC@124: now he can become a serene man, like in Tom wolfe book: “The Bonfire of the Vanities”
Les Vanites de la Bonne Vie.
All of which suggests that the culprit behind the culprit was the wife – the monied half with the ambition and drive that channeled not at all well through DSK’s personal circuitry.
OK. I won’t take that line of inquiry any farther either. The only development of consequence to the rest of the world is how the case works through the justice system. “[T]en millions of euros” in the world of litigation is merely a nice fee.
What would Ubama be doing differently if he actually were a Muslim?
Somewhat OT, but toadold @ 55:
Exception to casino’s loving systems players is card counters playing blackjack. Once upon a time I did that sort of thing and got 86′d on occasion. Gave it up: didn’t make that much money and disguising the bets made it too much work.
What is the equivalent of card counting in the casino of international relations? Who is does it? Who is good at it?
blert @ 125:
Presidio of San Francisco was founded by the Spanish in 1776. (Presidio of Monterey was founded four years later.)
In 1798, the Arguello family was given the land grant for the Rancho de Las Pulgas (“the Flea Ranch”), which comprises much of the San Francisco Peninsula. The Mission Dolores, also founded in 1776, had a farm in the Linda Mar Valley in what is today the Sanchez Adobe in Pacifica, SW of San Francisco.
The Vallejos had a huge ranch in Somoma and Marin County in the early 1800′s and the port for all their produce was San Francisco.
Nope, those Indians that survived the Europeans’ diseases were still there, but to find “wild” Indians using stone tipped weapons, you would have had to go pretty far afield by 1840. And in 1840, the people of California were citizens of Alta California, a province of Mexico.
Other than the dates though, you’re pretty much right.
okay people, i conceede my history of your area is not that brilliant and i apologise if i was ungracious. i guess the point i was making is i do think leaving israel in a state of vunerability towards your own enemies, after all i did not see any isrealis jumping for joy when the towers fell, is a really sad act by a government that is continually unable to do anything but appease the threat of islamic fundamentalism.
further israel and americas are allies, they always have been and israel shares a lot of it’s intelligence with the usa, especially counter terrorism, yet the usa under obama drops israel for the sake of what exactly? a peace that will never ever come. israel already returned the gaza and the west bank only to have 10000 missiles plus, launched from these areas, is this the peace israel gets in return.
it’s very simple, all israel wants is security for it’s citizens and the right for self determination. no one gives this to israel but everyone takes it away.
in europe jewish people are told to move to israel as the europian governments cannot protect them from islamic violence, many thousands have had to leave and resettle themselves in israel becuase they have no choice. and now europe says, we don’t want israel to defend itself, we don’t want israel to exist.
these are the facts.
“The lawyer of former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn told Haaretz Sunday that his client would be acquitted of the sexual assault charges that have shocked the economic world”
“Brafman said that if Strauss-Kahn had not been famous and had not been a foreigner, the court would not have demanded the high $6 million bail.”
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/strauss-kahn-s-lawyer-to-haaretz-former-imf-chief-will-be-acquitted-1.363201
I’m still waiting for Obama to fully address the following.
Full and unconditional diplomatic recognition of Israel
Full and unconditional recognition of Israel’s right to exist within secure borders
Full cessation of all acts of war against Israel, including but not limited to: full cessation of all economic boycotts and embargoes against Israel; full cessation of military action against Israel by independent states (Syria, Iran) AND their proxies: Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Al-Aqsa Martyr’s Brigade, ET. AL. (that is, EVERY single proxy)
Netanyahu and Israel are right to say to Obama: NO DEALS until the above basic requirements are met.
We should thank Mr. Obama for deciding the borders of Israel without even asking their opinion on the matter. I’m sure this will be helpful in resolving this decades-long struggle.
In other news, the Israeli PM, in talks with Mexico, has agreed the US will return to the 1846 borders prior to the Mexican-American war. The land seized in this war was taken with far less justification than Israel’s conquest in 1967.
Sorry, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and Colorado. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.
“In giving his speech the president may have done three things, none of which he quite intended…”
Mr Fernandez, isn’t it clear by now that ‘bam is following an audacious anti-American, anti-Israeli and pro-islamist policy?
‘bam hates Britain, hates Israel and intends to do America harm.
And you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. If he is re-elected, all restraints will be off.
Kenyan Obama has SINGLE-HANDEDLY DESTROYED US interest in the Middle East in 2 yrs that past US Presidents have built up in the last 80 years. Is it intentional or just amateurish because he’s a COMMUNITY ORGANIZER ?
Obama is talking like Arafat from the grave. You wouldn’t believe he’s US President.
Speaking to AIPAC Obama just took back what he had said prevously about Israel having to return to the pre-1967 borders. He said, pre-1967 borders means “whatever is negotiated between Israel and the palistineans”.
Despite words to the contrary, Obama seems to ignore that his actions are viewed as supporting that idea that he’s a foreigner with more loyalty to his ethnicity and Islam than he has to this nation. In various venues he seems opposed to all means of keeping us safe and seems intent on shoring up our ties to the same Islamic states that fund terror threats here and abroad. How can he expect us to believe his claims to represent us when his actions demonstrate anything but support for our views? You can plug in any issue from union card check to immigration and at every turn Obama seems to take the side that offers the least support for our security, our economy and our foundations. Is it any wonder that people still ask if he was born here legally and if he’s a Muslim?
One wonders whether anyone in the White House has ever aquainted with what those pre-war borders looked like in the two to three years before the shooting started in early June 1967? There’s a pretty good description of the view in each direction, i’ve tried three times in as many days to post it, but it never appears. So let me just say how to find it:
www.
jewishvirtuallibrary.
org/jsource/
History/67_
War.html
keeping fingers crossed, trying the link again as a hyperlink.
Note the rate of increase, in the three years from the formation of the PLO to the 67 war, of West Bank infiltrations resulting in surprise attacks by terrorists upon Israeli civilians going about their normal daily routines at home and at work or running errands.
Ole, “F” up there at the top of the comments asks about our current president’s advsiors. Silly Rabbit, he don’t need no advisors. He don’t listen to no advisors. He’s “The One”. The One needs nor heeds no advise.
I can imagine the “give and take” at the meeting with Bibi:
Our current president (OCP): Blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah blah. Blah blah blah..(one hour elapses)..blah blah blah. Blah?
Bibi: (nods) But Mr President we…..
OCP: Blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah blah. Blah blah blah..(two hours elapse)..blah blah blah. Blah! We are ready for press momemnt now. I’m so glad we’ve been able to share my thoughts. Do you have what you plan to say all ready?
Bibi: Yes, Mr President. Thanks. I do. Let’s roll.
Obama’s foreign policy of bows, apology, and appeasement has collapsed and led to choas everywhere. So instead of reassessing the disasters he has created Obama goes on an additional spree of appeasement of our adversaries and terrorist organizations like Hamas while betraying our one of our staunches allies and putting their very survival at risk. No American can look at Obama’s latest betrayal of Israel and support him without understanding that he is hostile to the survival of Israel. UNEMPLOYMENT has increased again to 9% when Obama promised us it woudn’t go over 8%. The economy has slowed and Obama’s massive corrupt spending and mountains of debt still threaten to crush the nation. We voted for hope and change, we got incompetence and despair!
If i may, one more comment re the president’s recent highlighting of 1967 and the borders of Israel:
1967 was 22 years from 1945, which had dawned with European Jews having fewer rights than bacteria.
22 years is the span of time from today to the year 1989 –which, unless you are under forty or so, is not much time at all.
In fact the break is so short it acts as a pretty good smoking gun on the question of the importance of the venue at all, in any case, no matter where. Which is powerful evidence pointing directly at the fight as being between killers and intended victims –and all else as obscurant embellishment.
Them nazzies, as george c scott’s character called ‘em in Dr. Strangelove, didn’t go nowhere after they lost WWII, but maybe underground, for awhile.
Obama was only able to sell out Israel because of the tacit green light of support given wholesale by Jewish liberals in 2008. Had the various Jewish lobbies chosen Israel over their tacit liberal nature, it would be a different story. If the Jews show a united front and make it crystal clear that they will NOT support Obama, even against (god forbid, a Republican) there may be a temporary shift. Unfortunately, it is too late. Obama will give lip service to the Jews, but he will show his true Islamist colors in his second term. He will fiddle while Israel burns. The Jews must certifiably, irrevocably withdraw their support or they will be singing the same song from 1936. Unfortunately, the Jews in America will not, cannot, choose Israel over their own liberal nature. The dirge has already begun.
#144: don’t forget the north: Canada will be happy to restore our border to include Washington and Oregon.