Terry Jones has canceled the Koran burning “because the leader of a planned Islamic centre near Ground Zero – the former site of New York’s World Trade Centre which was destroyed in the terrorist attacks — has agreed to move its controversial location.” According to Jones, there’s a deal:
During a press conference, Terry Jones said Imam Muhammad Musri, president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida, told him the people behind the plan to build a mosque at Ground Zero had decided to relocate from the controversial building site.
“The iman,” Pastor Jones said – incorrectly pronouncing the word ‘imam’, a Muslim cleric – “has agreed to move the mosque, we have agreed to cancel our event on Saturday and on Saturday (local time) I will be flying up there.”
Pastor Jones said he planned to meet with the backers of the mosque at Ground Zero on Sunday in New York, calling the decision to move the mosque “a sign from God”.
Who cares if he mispronounced the word “iman”? He apparently got the imam’s attention. The pastor may be hallucinating or wrong, but the Koran-burning story is an interesting example of two things. That a) it always pays to have a crazy man in the room threaten things that reasonable people can take advantage of and b) insanity is contagious.
The attention paid to Jones is an example of how an issue left lying around on the floor because no “reputable” person will pick it up eventually gets lifted by someone who doesn’t care if his hands get dirty. That issue has been the festering question of special treatment for Islamic sensitivities. Like Theo Sarrazin, who wrote an anti-immigration book in German and whose denunciation was rapidly followed by a public admission that he had raised an important issue, Terry Jones has proved a convenient way of pointing out by symmetry just how ludicrous claims of Islamic exceptionalism are. Sarah Palin, while denouncing Jones, could use his extreme behavior to advantage by comparing it to the Ground Zero mosque.
People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation – much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.
Comparing Jones to Imam Rauf reduces President Obama’s defense of the Ground Zero mosque to absurdity. How could an administration which ordered Bibles sent to Afghanistan burned and endorsed the right of the Ground Zero mosque builders to proceed with their construction turn 180 degrees on the matter of Koran burning without spinning like a top? They were hoist by their own petard.
The huge publicity given to Jones implies yet another thing. Extremism unfortunately works. If Jones has indeed gotten the GZM to move then he will have succeeded where reasoned argument did not. And he did it by imitation. Inevitably the blackmail tactics of Islamic extremism would generate copycats of which Terry Jones may only be a foretaste. Rewarding bad behavior has always brought the bugs out of the woodwork. Here is Jones playing back their own script. And nobody likes it. But either we all play by the same rules or no one does. Either that or the rulebook — not the Koran– gets effectively burned. A world in which only selected, politically correct groups are exempt from the requirement of civility cannot long survive. Unless equality before the law replaces political correctness the danger is threats will replace discourse. Smith and Wesson become more weighty than Moses and the Prophets when coercion is rewarded, as it has been too often for too long, in the past.
Update
The AP is reporting that Terry Jones is reacting to news that the Ground Zero Mosque will not be moved after all by saying he will reconsider his decision to cancel the Koran burning project. The issue, like a movie monster which everyone had thought dead, is apparently only resting and threatens to re-animate itself with a vengeance. President Obama told ABC News that:
I hope he understands that what he’s proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans, that this country has been built on the notion of freedom and religious tolerance … And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform.
For Jones, a relative unknown until recently, the controversy is the source a huge media platform from which to espouse his views. But for the President the issue is a revolving door which always exits back to Ground Zero and Islam, subjects he would be advised to avoid. Jones and the public debate on the Koran burning threat have linked Obama’s own support for the construction of a Ground Zero Mosque to the issue. The brighter the spotlight on Jones, the more light is reflected on its doppelganger — an issue upon which the President’s hand is clearly attached. For Jones, any is publicity is ‘good publicity’, but for Obama all pronouncements in this area are fraught with political danger.
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The attention paid to Jones is an example of how an issue left lying around on the floor because no “reputable” person will pick it up eventually gets lifted by someone who doesn’t care if his hands get dirty.
Exactly so, W. Back in the day, we referred to this as “meeting them where they are at.”
I’m just up the road, and there is great anxiety in these parts that this might have interfered in some way with a football game. Perhaps the Imam got a call from the Gator Boosters. Now the source of their worries is flying off in the sky to New York City.
Priorities.
“Extremism unfortunately works.”
Things like this – including the annual North Korean threats when the US and S. Korea hold militray exercises – remind me nothing so mucc as dealing with a 2 year old.
There you are, 6 years old and in proud possession of a new toy or comic book or whatever. Your 2 year old sibling wants to hold it. You know what will surely happen if you let the little kid grab it and refuse. Your Mom insists that you let the younger child hold the item. You do and the terrible twos toddler shreds it in 2 seconds. Then everyone is happy. Your Mom got the kid to shut up. The kid got to destroy what you valued. And you are told to shuddap and be happy by the adults.
The problem is, how long does this go on? Until your younger sibling is 40 and the item of yours he wants to get his hands on is a fully loaded AK-47 or your new Lexus?
With the Muslims and North Korea and Al Sharpton and the like, they get to act like 2 year olds with bad tempers forever.
Now someone (The Donald?) needs to buy the property across the street and build a giant billboard with a cartoon of Ol’ Mo the child Molester on it.
Something for the nutters to look at 5 times a day after prayer call.
New York could have a contest to decide which cartoon was the most offensive.
What the clueless left doesn’t understand is that backing down from burning the Koran will create MORE terrorists. Everyone wants to ride the strong horse.
Not that this Mosque will ever get built.
Remember when the Left applauded the release of Gitmo photos showing “abuse” despite fact that they would inflame Muslims?
Yeah right.
Terry Jones is a publicity seeking nut job but once what should have been a non-event got magnified into an international incident I was backing him 100%.
The Muhammed cartoon issue should have planted a spine in our jelly fish politicians and journalists but it didn’t. To a man/woman they turned and ran to hide their cowardice behind the altar of tolerance.
Obama comes off as a bumbling idiot who was badly outmaneuvered by the worst of the worst, a hick evangelical with a smaller following than the WH kitchen staff. I love it.
As per usual the Pastor has been lied to. The GZM is not going to be moved.
“Florida pastor calls off burning of Qurans”
“Under Heavy Pressure, Florida Pastor Calls Off Koran Burning on 9/11″
Usually Pastors are good men and believe what people tell them. He evidently doesn’t know that the religion of pieces encourages lying to infidels.
Either that or the Pastor was looking for any way out of the conundrum that he created and chose to “misunderstand”.
Or we have reporters that don’t get the facts just the flavors.
Papa Ray
But look at the speed of which these events went viral. This has
all gone down in less than a week.
The communication connectivity available to someone taking an extreme,
yet obviously relevant position (how many people wouldn’t secretly
like to participate in the Quran burning?), gives events velocity
which are getting inside of most of the establishment
OODA loops. What an effective leveraging tactic. But as
Wretchard wisely writes, the wisdom of crowds can easily now morph
into the actions of crowds.
If Pastor Terry Jones won’t do it, I’m making 9-11-10 “Fry A Koran In Bacon Grease Day”
I went and bought a Koran and sent it Fedex standard overnight yesterday and now they aren’t going to burn it. That’s $57.55 down the drain.
I guess I’m just going to have to buy another one and go down to the park on Saturday and have a Koran-b-que. I hope many of you will do the same.
Another:
“NYC imam denies Fla. pastor’s claim on mosque move”
Papa Ray
Tonto: They’re going to build a mosque at ground zero, kemosabe.
Lone Ranger, looking askance: Stop calling me that, Tonto. What’s a mosque?
Tonto: A kind of church. And a man in Florida is threatening to burn a Koran.
Lone Ranger, looking puzzled: North Koran or South Koran?
Tonto: And now the man in Florida says the Muslims are threatening to kill him for threatening to burn a Koran.
Lone Ranger: Sounds like a job for us, Tonto. Where’s my horse.
Three bars of the William Tell Overture later Tonto and the Lone Ranger arrive in Manhattan
Lone Ranger: This dispute can be solved with some good old fashioned horse sense, Tonto. What do you say, Silver? Should a mosque be built at Ground Zero?
Silver: Neigh
Lone Ranger: There you have it, Mayor Bloomberg.
Problem solved, the Lone Ranger and Tonto ride off into the sunset
Mayor Bloomberg, bemused: Who was that mosqued man?
Someone asked me what would happen if someone threatened to burn 100,000 Korans unless Osama Bin Laden turned himself into the FBI. Once I would have treated that question like a joke. Now I’m not so sure. Which kinda tells you to what depths of absurdity our logic, if you can call it that, has led us to.
We are talking about cartoons of 8th century religious figures and book burnings at a small as church turning into major international incidents. Who the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.
Or maybe it’s just human nature. How long could Islamic extremists keep playing this lie-to-them and poke-em-in-the-eye game without someone, usually the least genteel among their opponents, wising up to the idea? ‘Hey, I can do that too.’ After a while it gets to be a race to the bottom.
As this spins nicely toward the notion of equal rights under the Law and equal treatment for major religions, the Islamists will have utterly failed.
When the general public starts asking why no Christians or Jews or Hindus or whatever are allowed in Mecca or Medina on a national program we are making progress. Hannity did it this afternoon. If there can be mosques in Rome, there can be Catholic Churches in Mecca, and the time to build them is long overdue.
The Religion of Perpetual Outrage is about to get a lesson in religious tolerance. And I don’t think they will enjoy it a whole lot. But I will. Cheers -
If Jones says there is a deal with the Imam, then he should act as if there is a deal, go to NY for 9/11 anniversary this Saturday, hold out his hand in front of the cameras and say, “So…? Are you ready to confirm the promise you gave me on the phone? What? You’re not? You’re reneging? Nice work, you jerk.” And just leave it there, a stinking heap of embarrassment for the Imam and his supporters. The Pastor gets the moral high ground and can play from there, indefinitely, the theme of “I made my point, I kept my word, I determined the wise and respectful course was to refrain from provocation; unfortunately the Imam and his people do not behave as we do….”
Pastor Jones may be crazy like a fox. In any case it would be fun to watch the Imam squirm.
Don’t worry, Papa Ray, he can always burn the Korans another time if the Imam goes back on his word.
So i got a question… I’ve seen this extremist talk being tossed around left and right by news ppl about this pastor…. I have yet to see a single piece of info on exactly how this guy is supposedly an extremist…. you know other then throwing himself on a grenade for his country and the victims of 9/11. Call him crazy because surely he is for anyone with even the slightest knowledge about muslims knows if this guy burns a koran chances are the bounty on his head will be at least 100k… possible 1 million+.
Plus lets also not over look the fact that this guy has single handily given every anti-leftwing propaganda studier a huge volume of video of how news networks treat 2 different religions… and the massive hypocrisy in the way they treat them… its like a sociologist all you can eat buffet on how to easily defeat propaganda.
So once again I ask what is it that this pastor has does that has earned him the award of “extremist”?
Pastor Jones: a white Al Sharpton. He’s about as needed as a toothache.
Doesn’t he have some association with the vile Westboro Baptist Church?
Also, he’s lying about any quid pro quo with the GZM.
My theory is that making publishing any ‘news’ about Islamic terrorism the equivalent of shouting fire in a crowded theater will help in the war on terror. 1 million fine the first time, 100 million the second, with the media outlet being siezed and sold at auction the 3rd time.
That would put an end to terrorism, at least here in the west. Terrorists do it because we notice. The Media does it for money.
the Koran-burning story is an interesting example of two things. That a) it always pays to have a crazy man in the room threaten things that reasonable people can take advantage of and b) insanity is contagious.
Quite. More generally, memes are contagious. Even those of the Prince of Peace. But perhaps this is not news.
The huge publicity given to Jones implies yet another thing. Extremism unfortunately works.
Didn’t you just say that?
But I’m not sure there’s any “unfortunately” about it. Unavoidably, perhaps. But perhaps it’s quite fortunate and praiseworthy, a test of just how seriously someone takes things, one man’s earnestness is another man’s insanity. The Muslims have this seething thing down to a fine art, and we can either (a) bow to it, or (b) use a predator to drop a hellfire on it. Or, invoke it every chance we get and laugh at it, the seething by itself is harmless, and it they go beyond it, we simply return to plan (b).
The ceasing of the burning WILL be celebrated by Muslims worldwide as a victory over the meek west. Especially given the unlikeliness that the mosque will even be considered to be moved by this.
Where does it stop> In the middle east it is “common” to burn bibles.. I do not understand where we are going with all of this kowtowing to the muslims in general.
One man with fewer than 50 members in his church!! The media and our foolish boy child imam president have taken it up as a “cause” to speak about on the international stage. If they had not gone crazy, the guy would have burned his korans and life would have gone on, no problems..
They can kick and spit on us, but we even think of making a move and the middle east goes crazy. WHO FIRST REPORTED THIS STORY?? AND WHO PICKED IT UP??? They should be drawn and quartered.
Pastor Jones: a white Al Sharpton.
That character deficiency is exactly his advantage. Al Sharpton, Terry Jones and the Ground Zero imams are all dancing on the same floor while pretending not to know or be like each other. If it weren’t so tragic, it would be funny.
But the descent from the sublime to the ridiculous was marvelous to behold. Personally I think Jones filled a vacuum, although he filled in a somewhat unsavory way. While the elites were pussyfooting around pretending they were dealing with a bunch of Islamic Holy Joes, Jones comes up and says “if you’ll return the spoons you took from me I’ll give back the forks I took from you” and all of a sudden the conversation falls about 3 orders of magnitude to where it belongs.
I would avoid trying to make a hero of Terry Jones. His background does not support it. The MSM will have 100 people digging through his life to expose every bit of trash they can. We have seen this happen many times before. Jones will be a totally discredited human being before the weekend is over.
I do support his act, however, because it exposes the hypocrisy and idiocy of the pols and the MSM.
Jones comes up and says “if you’ll return the spoons you took from me I’ll give back the forks I took from you” and all of a sudden the conversation falls about 3 orders of magnitude to where it belongs.
The right tool for the job.
I’m not so sure the pastor isn’t Brietbart in disguise. He’s going to come out of this bruised, but only after highlighting in a brighter way than ever before that the other side (and its apologists) is wacko.
I mean, the guy threatens to burn a book and we’re told millions of people will become violent. And the guy’s media opponent says he surely can’t back down because, again, millions of people will become violent.
So then the pastor backs down. And there’s this stark contrast.
Do you really think muslims would kill if someone, anyone, destroyed a copy of the Koran? Do you really believe that they are that attentive to the care and concern of a book that they would kill and destroy to protect it? If so, then I would proposed that each and everyone of our soldiers have copies of the Koran placed on the outside of their uniform so that any attempt to kill our soldier would destroy the Koran and make the terrorist a target to kill by his fellow terrorists. We can cover all our tanks and vehicles with additional copies thus protecting them also.
Now, do you think that would work? Of course not. It is not about the Koran, It is not about the MGZ. These are merely excuses to threaten us into submission. Any excuse will work, or no excuse. Did we burn Korans before 9/11? Before the attack on the Cole? Before our embassies were attacted? Of course not. We are at war and the erronious assumption is that if we don’t do “_____________” then they will not kill us, heck if we vote for BHO they might even like us. Simply not true.
I hate to say this, but not only should the church burn the Koran, 9/11 should be a burn the Koran day accross America. We should push every button, we should push the issue, we should make them show themselves for what they are. Then maybe the world community would realize that the best way to stop a bully is to fight back. To not cower. Any fear percieved is permission granted to expand the bullying. No longer. If they want to be part of the world community, great but only on the world communities terms. If you want to take over the world by stealth and war, then you get to face the wrath of the world.
Did the Pope place a “Fatwa” on the artist(?) who created “Piss Christ” or the artist(?)that the Virgin Mary covered w dung? No.
Muslims need to realize the extremist are out to destroy not only non-muslims but moderate muslims too. Now is the time to say no more. Hey Buddy, do you got a match?
We now know how to focus the world’s attention on Islamic idiots and their useless fool lackeys, otherwise known as “progressives”. Threaten to burn a Koran a day for perceived grievances.
First move is to threaten to publicly burn a Koran somewhere in this nation [location undisclosed until afterward] every day construction is attempted on the GZ mosque. And if need be follow through. The Imam has the right to build. We have the right to burn. Mutual exercise of contravening rights.
Second, once the mosque issue is resolved – and it will be – pick another issue and handle the same way. Bin Laden;s surrender, human rights for women, Christian churches in Saudi Arabia, whatever. Just keep pushing the issues, one at a time. This is their Achilles Heel. Use it until “moderate” Muslims – if there are any – start doing their part to reel in the crazies among ‘em.
And “No”, Don Rodrigo, other than their lack of biblical knowledge the two “churches” have nothing in common.
I do have mixed feelings about not burning the qur’ans. On the one hand, book burning is low brow and makes one think of Nazis. On the other hand, canceling the event sends out the message of “threaten Americans and they’ll back down.”
This last May 20th was the first annual “Draw Mohammad Day”. It was done in response to all of the threats made to the Danish cartoonists, the creators of “South Park”, and the standing threat that anyone, no matter where you live or what your religion is or what the circumstances are… you draw Mohammad, you die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ok4njJXI8
Draw Mohammad Day was a resounding success. Artists on YouTube, Facebook and DeviantArt all exercised free speech. After all, how could anyone suicide bomb the internet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuD3Ex5p3Aw&feature=channel
Of all the Draw Mohammad day pics, this one is my favorite…
http://ironicsurrealism.blogivists.com/2010/05/21/and-the-winner-of-the-everybody-draw-mohammad-contest-is/
Where would we be if our speech wasn’t free?
It’s time someone got pissed off at the “appease the Muslim, burn the Christian Bible crowd”. There was a partial list of that crowd on Drudge today and it included Sarah Palin.
Jesus said this would be the lukewarm age and so it has proven to be. The consequences of which are His rejection of the lukewarm (Christians). How did he put it? In today’s terms it would be; ‘you make me so sick I’m gonna puke’. Now if He’s going to puke lukewarm Christians out of His mouth, what’s He going to do those who deny His Sonship (Muslims)? He say’s “I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!” Many are being stripped naked in regards to their beliefs, revealing them to be hypocrites and cowards, refusing to stand up for the Constitution unless it suits their purpose, refusing to defend Christianity when it is being assaulted in the public square, seeking to invoke the Muslim laws of oppressive taxation to enslave their enemies and on and on it goes, so many lies and so much perversion. Where does it end?
Well the truth is His fire and His word is the judge. Today I think we have seen a fire start that will not be put out until there is nothing left to burn, then judgement. Mercy.
Notice how anything remotely attached to offending islam is a dangerous affair? Islam is the religion of bullies and tyrants. A better idea would be to make toilet paper out of Koranic scripture.
Wretchard:
“Terry Jones has canceled the Koran burning ”
Awww, drat!
And here I was gonna go down to Florida and put out the fire by urinating on the burning Koran.
Maybe the Alleged Hawaiian would have invited me to the White House to congratulate me on how “sensitive”, “tolerant” n’ sh!t that I was.
Ah well…maybe next time.
The imprtant thing is NOt to burn their Koran, but rather to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The important thing is not to stop their mosque/cultural center/blasting cap exchange from being built, but rather to rebuild St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which was crushed by the Twin Towers when they fell.
Let’s worry about rebuilding the Christian Church that WAS there, instead of what some clown does with an old Burlington Coat Factory.
Everyone’s acting like this pastor in Florida was holding the keys to WWIII, and was threatening to start it up.
I’m beginning to wonder. Was he?
Since the pastor has made the decision not to carry out the burning, I can’t help but think of the many in this country who are now ticked off that Islam again has intimidated the west into yellow-spined compliance. Whatcha’ bet a number of YouTube videos will be coming out of Quran burnings?
Koran will be burned the westboro baptist church has stated they will…. this is much how the neo-nazi’s got good PR for saying they will patrol the US border and help ppl….
Well will retards learn that when ppl make rational and sometime clever moving to counter evil, terrorism and criminal… that not going through with it means that real racists, bigots and criminals can step up and get some good PR for themselves….
This is very much how many dictators got into to power… Sooner all later the US public is going to throw in with a “moderate”ly evil group because they will do something about the really evil groups…
Its fricking sad when nazi’s, racists and general oppressive ppl have more rational understanding of reality then so called news groups or think tanks. PJM and others like it are as much to blame for whats going to happen as these hate groups… because they can’t do the simple thing of calling a spade a spade because they’re to scared of being called racist by some racists…
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t
Re 33 Already happened a while back….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXOnSsj_0M0
The day they start building the Mosque is the day we should start burning Korans daily in front of the Mosque. They both are sacrilege.
I’m in agreement with Don Rodrigo @ 17. I have a suspicion that this was all for publicity and 15 minutes of fame, made all the more strong by rumors that there is a connection to Westboro. If that is the case, then this “pastor” does not deserve to be thought of as a hero — quite the contrary.
Now that events are what they are however, there may be some advantage to be had by it. Obama looks the weak, muslim sympathizing quisling (and so does Hillary and the rest of the Democrats); the media look the complicit, American hating lapdogs. The mosque is once again front and center in the public eye, and leftists should have to answer another round of questions as to why they ascribe to equality before the law for thee and mine, but not you and yours. The Muslims either look to be liars and terrorist thugs who really are dead set on global sharia and the caliphate (or, on the bright note: the ones who are not sold on the idea of radical Islam are perhaps now made to realize that they need to speak up or be branded along with the rest of the lot). Hopefully some lemonade can be squeezed out of this lemon of a situation.
This does not have to be a win for Islam or the Left — if played right, far from it.
The problem is that this sleazy imam and his sleazy partners have been promoted to spokesmen for all Muslims. Our outrage has to be directed at them. We need to show that we are not buying their BS and that we will not be intimidated by by thugs and tyrants who blow up schools of Afghan children, rape girls to extract false confessions from their fathers, or allow girls to perish in a fire because they weren’t properly covered. If Rauf thinks he can excuse and build a bridge to this kind of behavior, we don’t want him near Ground Zero and we don’t recognize his authority to speak for all Muslims. The Muslim world is too full of leaders who sacrifice their own people to line their pockets. We need to destroy their credibilty.
How much did all this PR cost Rev. Jones? 2 Weeks ago he was not even a non-entity. Now he can call a news conference and have the national media show up. Is this a great country or what?
While there is a lot of talk about whether burning the Koran is ‘insensitive’ and will incite Islamists around the planet to go on a mass killing spree, no one is talking about the central issue that Pastor Jones is pointing out:
IS ISLAM EVIL OR NOT?
This is the question we should all be discussing, and that is essentially the broader message that Pastor Jones is communicating. Is he right???
If any of the Islamo-apologists and new age sensitive talking heads on TV would actually take the time to read the Islamic holy books, the Koran, the Ahadith, and especially the Sira Rasul Allah (the biography of Muhammed), they would quickly find Pator Jones’ message to be truthful.
Islam, at its core, is a violent, intolerant, misogynistic, genocidal totalitarian ideology every bit as evil as NAZI’sm – even worse in fact.
NAZI’sm was founded by an undeniably evil man with undeniably evil ideals, Adolph Hitler.
If you are willing to peel the skin of the Islamic onion, you will quickly discover that Islam was also founded by an undeniably evil man with undeniably evil ideals, Muhammed.
The hard truth is Muhammed was no ‘holy prophet’, but rather a sadistic sociopath. Muhammed was a murderer, a slaver, a human trafficker, a brutal torturer, a decapitator, an amputator, a looting stealing thief, a perfidious liar, a serial rapist, a child rapist, a sex trafficker, a kidnapper, a genocidist and a self proclaimed terrorist.
In every way, by any objective standard, Muhammed was one of the most vile examples of humanity who ever lived, a self obsessed narcissist motivated by unquenchable sexual lust, asymptotic material greed, and primal violent bloodlust.
You don’t have to be religious to recognize that Muhammed was in word, deed and spirit an ‘Anti-Christ’ or an ‘Anti-Buddha’.
Muhammed was simply evil, yet this is the man who laid the moral foundation of Islam and set this ‘religion of peace’ on a 1,400 year mission to subjugate every non-Islamic culture and land on the planet.
Muhammeds prime directive for Islam is simply totalitarian global domination by the use of violence and terror as shown here:
Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’” – Bukhari (8:387)
Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said “I have been made victorious with terror” – Bukhari (52:220)
COULD IT BE ANY MORE CRYSTAL CLEAR???
Personally, I don’t like the idea of burning ANY books. As for the Koran, I say read it, don’t burn it.
But I have to commend Pastor Jones for knowingly risking his life to send the message about the the evil of Islam. He’s right on target.
~ The Infidel Alliance
.
While there is a lot of talk about whether burning the Koran is ‘insensitive’ and will incite Islamists around the planet to go on a mass killing spree, no one is talking about the central issue that Pastor Jones is pointing out:
IS ISLAM EVIL OR NOT?
This is the question we should all be discussing, and that is essentially the broader message that Pastor Jones is communicating. Is he right???
If any of the Islamo-apologists and new age sensitive talking heads on TV would actually take the time to read the Islamic holy books, the Koran, the Ahadith, and especially the Sira Rasul Allah (the biography of Muhammed), they would quickly find Pator Jones’ message to be truthful.
Islam, at its core, is a violent, intolerant, misogynistic, genocidal totalitarian ideology every bit as evil as NAZI’sm – even worse in fact.
NAZI’sm was founded by an undeniably evil man with undeniably evil ideals, Adolph Hitler.
If you are willing to peel the skin of the Islamic onion, you will quickly discover that Islam was also founded by an undeniably evil man with undeniably evil ideals, Muhammed.
The hard truth is Muhammed was no ‘holy prophet’, but rather a sadistic sociopath. Muhammed was a murderer, a slaver, a human trafficker, a brutal torturer, a decapitator, an amputator, a looting stealing thief, a perfidious liar, a serial rapist, a child rapist, a sex trafficker, a kidnapper, a genocidist and a self proclaimed terrorist.
In every way, by any objective standard, Muhammed was one of the most vile examples of humanity who ever lived, a self obsessed narcissist motivated by unquenchable sexual lust, asymptotic material greed, and primal violent bloodlust.
You don’t have to be religious to recognize that Muhammed was in word, deed and spirit an ‘Anti-Christ’ or an ‘Anti-Buddha’.
Muhammed was simply evil, yet this is the man who laid the moral foundation of Islam and set this ‘religion of peace’ on a 1,400 year mission to subjugate every non-Islamic culture and land on the planet.
Muhammeds prime directive for Islam is simply totalitarian global domination by the use of violence and terror as shown here:
Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah’” – Bukhari (8:387)
Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said “I have been made victorious with terror” – Bukhari (52:220)
COULD IT BE ANY MORE CRYSTAL CLEAR???
Personally, I don’t like the idea of burning ANY books. As for the Koran, I say read it, don’t burn it.
But I have to commend Pastor Jones for knowingly risking his life to send the message about the the evil of Islam. He’s right on target.
~ The Infidel Alliance
That’s always the risk, and the thing that most needs to be avoided imho.
The problem is that this sleazy imam and his sleazy partners have been promoted to spokesmen for all Muslims.
And the West has treated with them on the advice of all its academic orientalists, the sort who present themselves as informed. You are shown a crowd of goons and told, “here is the authentic voice of Islam”. And we bow our heads before this wisdom. It is indicative of how little the Western elite actually thinks of Muslims that they believe and proclaim publicly that these bloodthirsty, corrupt throwbacks are accepted to represent more than a billion people. Like much of supposed leftist enlightenment, it is really racism in disguise.
Suppose Osama Bin Laden no more represented the Muslim man in the street than Terry Jones represents the average follower of Christ? Suppose. Even if it were not so, it is not in the Western advantage to pretend that it is. To reward the wrong people, to pay off shakedown artists, to cringe before every man with a beard and a boxcutter — and believe it is enlightened yet not believe you are generating the very thing you fear — is a thing so ridiculous you really have to be educated to believe it. Reward the behavior you want and sooner or later you may even get it. Gild the palm of the man who beats you and you will certainly get beaten again.
Evil hates a mirror. This may be why Terry Jones is so effective. The old stories about the Malign fleeting from a looking glass may contain a grain of truth. The bad guy never wants to look himself in the face. The Enlightened Ones of the Ground Zero Mosque looked in the glass — and found Terry Jones staring back at them.
Wretchard, #12: “Someone asked me what would happen if someone threatened to burn 100,000 Korans unless Osama Bin Laden turned himself into the FBI.”
Now that would be a trick, OBL turning himself into the FBI. I often refer to these guys as wizards. I’d like it if Obama would turn himself into, oh, I don’t know–say, a duck. Then we could tell him to shut the duck up.
Lebanon Marine barracks, USS Cole, Two Embassies in Africa, The WTC, a crippled Jew on a cruse ship. Israel athletes in Germany, the list is almost endless. Yes is does work. Now this little preacher in Florida gets national attention for such a bad, bad thing like offending Muslims. Bad boy! New if he had the nerve to burn that book in front of a Mosque in Detroit that would have been news. If burning the Koran brings out targets I think controlled burns are called for.
#40 The Infidel Alliance While there is a lot of talk about whether burning the Koran is ‘insensitive’ and will incite Islamists around the planet to go on a mass killing spree, no one is talking about the central issue that Pastor Jones is pointing out:
IS ISLAM EVIL OR NOT?
Indeed! The Orcs are on the rise, and we’re sitting around like Treebeard and the other Ents navel gazing about ancillary matters, all the while believing it won’t come to us…it can’t come to us…this is America afterall! And so we waffle rather than face the enemy head on. Surely it won’t come to our shores even as it is cresting over Europe? This is America, and not Europe! We will weather this minor nuisance!
TREEBEARD: The ents cannot hold back this war. We must weather such things as we have always done.
MERRY: How can that be your decision?
TREEBEARD: This is not our war.
MERRY: But your part of this world! Aren’t you? You must help. Please. You must do something.
TREEBEARD: You are young and brave, master Merry. But your part in this tale is over. Go back to your home.
PIPPIN: Maybe Treebeard’s right. We don’t belong here, Merry. It’s too big for us. What can we do in the end? We’ve got the Shire. Maybe we should go home.
MERRY: The fires of Isengard will spread. And the woods of Tuckborough and Buckland will burn. And… and all that was once green and good in this world will be gone. There won’t be a Shire, Pippin.
Wretchard @ 43: It is a form of racism, but I have a question and would like your opinion: do you think the left focuses on these people because these terrorists and shakedown artists are exactly the type of people the left admire/most want?
Part of me wonders if people like that don’t fill some sort of psychological need in the western left wing; I think it may certainly fill a practical one. I think the left likes to use these people against the west (while they in turn are getting used by the terrorists, bullies, and affiliated scum), but I wonder sometimes if many (or most) don’t also live vicariously through them.
I’ll just free-associate and see what I can come up with. It’s always worked before.
The ‘elites’ appease Islam because 1) they are afraid with it, 2) they are at least half in bed with it. They are like Julia Roberts in the movie Sleeping with the Enemy. Quite seriously. They are dhimmized by the marriage they can not escape. They can’t escape it because of the fear, but also because its success is tied to their personal prestige, power and economic well-beings. And because cooperation with Islam is essential to what people like Hillary, a New World Order type who dabbles in the occult, believe – that is, that they have usurped G-d. And because they have, and deserve to run the world, why should a few hundred million or so pesky Jihadists upset them? After all, they have pseudo-magical powers, are reincarnated through pyramids and are protected by spells. More or less.
In other words, many of the Western elites are nuts. It’s not only Prince Charles.
The Islam ‘experts’ in the universities are often hand-picked and vetted Islamic enthusiasts, post-modernists who basically despise the US and Israel, etc., or in some cases converts. I am a graduate of the Near Eastern Studies Dept at Berkeley. There for instance we had the delightful British convert to Islam, Hamid Algar, who absolutely denied Israel’s right to exist and later was a full-on apologist for the pedophiliac mass murder the ‘Saint’ (Brzezinski?) Ayatollah Khomeini. Welcome to the minds of your elites. Now have nightmares.
Where is the ink, as well as airplay, regarding those who left Islam? How much ink was used in telling their stories, as well how prominently were those stories featured on air?
As long as the Koran is viewed as the Authority by which Muslims behave as Muslims, and questions are not asked as to why portions of heterodox, or unauthorized, Christian liturgies (not to mention Jewish liturgies) look similar to the Koran – we will continue to spin our wheels.
Re 35:
A disturbing sight, but it was bound to happen: Loki and Thor in the Black Forest purging the Fatherland of the war-runes of the invaders.
#49 David Lincoln
Where is the ink, as well as airplay, regarding those who left Islam?
Ibn Warraq (1946– ) is the pen name of a secularist Pakistani who has written a numner of books about leaving Islam (Why I Am Not A Muslim and Defending the West: A Critique of Edward Said’s Orientalism are probably the best-known). He is also the founder if the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society, or ISIS.
According to Wikipedia, Ibn Warraq “has also spoken at the United Nations ‘Victims of Jihad’ conference organized by the International Humanist and Ethical Union alongside speakers such as Bat Ye’or, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Simon Deng.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq
I have read several of his books and can recommend them as well worth the time.
… to cringe before every man with a beard and a boxcutter — and believe it is enlightened yet not believe you are generating the very thing you fear
“no, we are not cringing, we are humoring a lunatic”, they would say, more or less like the police try to talk down any lunatic with a gun.
But this craven attitude by the likes of David Petraeus, I think, comes from somewhere else, that they see the US as the voice of Reason, the Empire of Reason, perhaps, that all appeal to whether they will or not, that cannot have its own interests, indeed, is so high that it need not have its own interests, it is just immanent, as much a product of the vilest member as of the most enlightened, transcendent.
To have such in charge of US troops does not please me.
Shock and awe them with our Diversity
Overwhelm them with our Tolerance
Then smash ‘em with our Sensitivity
We’ll show ‘em how Progressive we do be.
Free speech for me but not for thee
Such double standards we all can see
We learnt at Open Minded University
Along with other strange perversity.
But we will hang ourselves, yessiree,
With the very rope that we have weaved
For there’s nothing else that we believe
Except to be the nicest people we can be.
The only thing missing from this story this afternoon was a man riding a unicycle across a tightrope while holding a little umbrella. With a monkey.
I’m still waiting to see any proof of this guys so called “extremism”… anyone?
I am a fence sitter on the mosque, but on the burning I am not. I find it laughable that the left is now all of a sudden full of sensitivity of other’s religious beliefs. The application of my rule of thumb is if it strikes at the enemies of America and liberty then the left is opposed to the blow.
I am sympathetic to the view that the action is provocative and bound and inconsiderate but I saw no such clauses in the Constitution and in our notion of freedom of speech.
The SCOTUS says it is okay to burn the US Flag, Andres Sorrano creates “Piss Christ” and when patriots and Christians take offense we are tut-tutted.
I saw one person wench how the Talmud was next into the bonfire. We’ll I think the example is very illustrative and is set up to compare and contrast. I bet Karachi will go ape but Tel Aviv will be as calm as usual (unless of course Hezbola-la or Hamas decides to act out).
Some years ago I denounced some anonymous folks that distributed some Chick Publications in Dubai but guests should respect their hosts. Terry Jones is right on with this, this is OUR land and in our land we do have the right to torch anyone’s holy book and if you don’t like it you’ld better self-reflect a little more thoroughly.
As for me I think we should start a tradition. September 11th should be “Burn a Koran Day.” And the burning Koran should be used to stoke the fires of a BBQ pit upon which pork is to be roasted, and all the bones should be distributed to dogs (which Muslims claim to be unclean animals).
The pastor seems to be a typical evangelical caught up in his religion and doing what he thinks is the “right” thing…like the library thinks a book is dirty and doesn’t want the kids to get their little eyes on it, so they have a little book burning, Elvis records in the 50′s etc..
It would have been a harmless little bonfire if the media and obama hadn’t gotten wind of it.
I agree with 18
Appropriate opportunity to revisit one of Richard Fernandez’ classic posts, “The Ten Ships.”
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2010/05/14/the-ten-ships/#more-8990
“Admiral King had the sense to understand that the location itself had little significance. It was the Kido Butai, the ten carriers which made up the Japanese Fast Carrier force which momentarily occupied that ocean waste that he had to destroy. While the Kido Butai existed it could move across the vast spaces and attack at a point of its choosing. . . .”
“By asserting that Afghanistan, not oil or the Middle East or radical Islam was the center of gravity of the enemy, President Obama completely misframed the strategic choices. . . . But today only one side — the forces behind al-Qaeda – have a clear strategic conception of the war they are waging. The President seems determined to misunderstand it. . . . ”
“Neutralize the intellectual appeal of radical Islam, topple the rogue regimes, and ease Western dependence on oil and you win the war. Yet their centrality, and even their existence is what the politicians constantly deny.”
#52. Josh
Petraeus in this case is doing exactly his job, which is to look out for the welfare of his soldiers while performing the mission he was given. Under the current situation, yes–publicity burnings of the koran are likely to result in irritated Muslims in various parts of the world. These people, being who they are, will be more likely to lash out like spoiled 2-year-olds armed with high velocity ammunition and explosives.
Proper leadership deals with what is, as well as what should be.
Should Jones be doing this stunt? I’d rather he not be labeling himself a “Christian” pastor (much as I’d rather Sharpton not be), but he fills a useful and needed spot, exercising the predictable attitude of most Americans exposed to Islam’s double-standards and USG “leaders’” failure to deal with what is, as well as what should be.
Can you burn the US flag? Yes. Can you burn a Bible, dunk crosses in piss, smear crap on Christian imagery sacred to some people? Yes.
Should you? No–it’s deliberately provocative and harmful to civil society, and would constitute the equivalent of “fighting words” if Christians were not so dead-set on following admonitions of meekness. (Meekness: strength deferred.)
The only reason burning korans gets any press is because Muslims are not expected to be meek.
–JC
Barack Obama knows how to raise the temperature, but does he know how to cool it down? He belittles those he disagrees with, and then expects them to compromise. He makes the entire federal government put pressure on one insignificant pastor in Florida and then expects anger against Islamist triumphalism over genocidal massacres perpetrated in the name of Islam to go away.
Has Barack Obama no compassion? He Barack Obama no empathy? Has he no soul? He lectures America on trying to understand where other people are coming from, yet he doesn’t even bother to learn about other Americans – the very citizens who he is now supposed to represent. We seem to have a president who is deaf to the humanity of his fellow citizens – that is, if he truly regards Americans as fellow citizens at all.
Only just now did I become aware that Imam Rauf told CNN that the Muslim world would explode in anger if the GZM was not built. I see no reason why the NY District Attorney should not consider terrorism incitement charges against him. Of course he will not.
Now we see the web drawing tighter around “I will stand with Muslims if the winds turn against them” Barack Obama. His support of the mosque, his dispatch of Rauf to the Muslim world as an emissary of the US, his common support of Gaza/southern Israel security-busting through Khalidi and Ayers while Rauf does the same via Perdana and the Turkish IHH – Obama is standing with Islam now. Flag unfurled. Here is hoping that the US reclaims itself before the Trojan Imam finishes it. This is more stupefying than a ‘B’ political-action thriller. The US has an entire Administration that now sides with its enemies.
Double Standard?
The Qua-ran burning is provocative but legal, however, the government worries about the reaction of Muslims.
The ground-zero-mosque is legal but provocative, yet the government ignores the reaction of the majority of the American people.
This blatant demonstration of fear of Muslim-terror will only embolden the Islamists and motivate them to exploit the effects of their threats with impunity – no matter if the burning will be cancelled or not.
I am not comfortable with burning books, especially books regarded as sacred. Too many Christian Bibles and Jewish Torahs have been burned. Besides, from an aesthetic perspective, it doesn’t look good.
BUT I am strongly in favor of mockery and of exposure. Right now the proposed mosque site is not a holy site, so how about drenching it with pig blood? How about burying some slaughtered pigs on the site and then publicizing that?
How about putting up billboards showing cartoons of “The Prophet?” And while we are at it, how about publishing quotations from the qu’ran that expose its hateful verses?
The first suggestion is no different from the actions of the left. The second is an affirmation of the very same First Amendment that BHO used to defend the mosque builders.
Try this thought problem that a friend tried on me:
Suppose an innocent child is stalked and murdered, and then later her murderer is killed in a gun fight. Then imagine that the family of the innocent child has purchased a grave site in the town’s largest cemetery. Next, imagine that the murderer’s family has bought the very next grave site. Legal? Yes. Protected by the Constitution? Seems so. Decent or indecent? Pretty obvious. This example asserts no religious or political considerations, just ordinary human decency.
By framing the matter as “Yes to mosque = upholding the Constitution; No to the mosque = denying the Constitution,” the Left has shaped the debate to their advantage. The only counterattack is to use that same Constitution to hold pig blood demonstrations, buy billboards to mock them in every way THEY regard as indecent, and then let them demonstrate whether they are the “religion of peace.”
Another friend observed, “How long are politicians going to continue mosque debating?” (Say it really fast three times.)
If flammable Korans can be bargaining chips, then use them as such. For every honor killing, burn a Koran. For every convert murdered, burn a Koran. For every homosexual put to death, burn a Koran. For every Christian killed, burn a Koran. For every US or NATO casualty, burn a Koran. Make the announcement publicly, specifically, pointedly: This Koran will burn because a son of Islam killed such and such a person on this day at that place. Keep burning them as long as the behavior persists.
It is, of course, only a pipe dream. In the first place, it would have no effect on this reprehensible behavior. Secondly, the EPA would put a stop to it in short order, because the pyre would be huge, rage 24×7, and the smoke would blacken the sky. Finally it would be branded, ironically, as insensitive to Muslims – straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel.
Anybody got a match?
batman…
Different strokes for different folks I’d say.
And here is the latest insanity:
Iranian FM: Israel behind planned Koran burning
By Jerusalem Post 09/09/2010 21:07
Manouchehr Mottaki says, “Software for this plan was made by the Zionists following their defeats against Muslims and the Islamic world.”
Israel is behind a US Reverend’s planned Koran burning, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said Thursday, according to the official Iranian news agency IRNA.
“The software for this plan was made by the Zionists following their defeats against Muslims and the Islamic world,” Manouchehr said in a meeting with foreign diplomats in Iran.
“Extremism unfortunately works.”?!
MEH.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/what_the_burning_quran_issue_s.html
The fact that there is any serious opposition to Pastor Jones is more than a little disturbing in what it says about the current state of America, and the American people’s willingness to stand up for what they believe in, and fight for it if necessary.
Our constitution favors no religion but our current crop of elites clearly favors Islam. Either that or they favor cowardice over the courage to stand up for our own country.
Pastor Jones may not exude the sophistication of the elite crowd but he IS standing up to the school-yard bully, which is long overdue.
The Islamic world has stopped Israel from building on its own land, and now they are sending our officials into contortions trying to manufacture reasons why we should abandon our constitution in order to appease the otherwise “peaceful Muslims” who will become violent if they don’t get everything they want.
It is truly disheartening to hear our leaders take the side of our enemy because they “are gonna be mad at us”. Here’s a news flash: THEY ARE ALREADY MAD AT US AND NO AMOUNT OF CONCESSIONS WILL MAKE THEM LIKE US!
Richard Fernandez makes the excellent point that Pastor Jones was not afraid to get his hands dirty by picking an issue “off the floor” that “respectable” people wouldn’t touch. He also makes the point that everybody must play by the same rules. Islam has steadfastly refused to play by our rules, indeed it mocks them, we, therefore have no choice but to play by theirs – if they insist on acting like barbarians it will cost them. Up till now they have acted like barbarians and we have accommodated their every demand. What reason would they have to change a strategy that is working so well? Our “understanding” will do nothing but expand the dhimmitude that some are already willfully accepting. Only if their abhorrent conduct costs them will they have incentive to stop it. Three cheers for Pastor Jones.
To those who insist on repeating the mantra “our country was built on freedom of religion”, consider this: Islam offers its followers NO freedom of religion. By allowing Islam to be practiced in the United States we are allowing its leaders to deprive American citizens of their constitutional right to practice another religion if they choose. The United States Constitution and the teachings of Islam are irreconcilable. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Another interesting thing about the Koran Burning/GZM business are the different frontiers that it crosses. For many, it has led them to mentally accept that something very fascist is going on. This is an intellectual realization that there is something illogical, reprehensible and even immoral about the way the elites are treating the issue. Many people are still crossing this line.
But for those who’ve already crossed into territory where they believe it is wrong there is nowhere further to go, intellectually speaking. What they are now up against is the frontier of commitment or will. They need to nerve themselves act. The difference between “knowing” something is wrong and acting on that knowledge is a vast one.
What determines whether people will advance across the frontier of action — that is, go from “knowing” the elites are doing something wrong to “acting” on it depends chiefly on two things. First, most people need to be presented with a course of action that they feel is legitimate and acceptable; and second, they need to feel the assurance of a lot of other people doing the same thing.
The role of a real organizers and leaders (they are not always the same) is to create situations where both these conditions are met. If you rushed out into the street and asked people to storm a public building practically no one would follow you. But if someone provided an ‘actionable’ option — such as a vote, or a petition, or an act of civil disobedience most people could live with — then the chances of getting someone to go along rise dramatically.
The job of an organizer is to create an infrastructure and spread the memes so that this frontier of action can be crossed. Most often it waits on the arrival of a leader who can draw enough of a following to provide the crucial safety of numbers. But it works both ways. Most leaders will hang back and reserve their political capital until they see a chance worth the risk. So the chicken and egg problem is: without the groundwork there won’t be a leader. Without a leader, the many will simply wait on events.
The problem in this case, I think, has been that nobody has hit on a course of action that is actionable and acceptable. You can’t “go up against the GZM” or “go up against the behavior of the elites” in the aggregate. You can’t fight City Hall. But you can knock a brick off the corner. This job must be cut down to baby steps.
For all its defects the genius of Terry Jones’ Koran burning initiative is that it is:
1. simple
2. widely believed to be legal, if obnoxious
3. stinging enough to be effective
Burning a Koran is something anybody can do in his own community or backyard with minimal risk. And because Terry Jones doesn’t care or isn’t affected by a loss of reputation, not having any to begin with, he’s taken the heat already. For many it is a simple matter to slipstream behind him.
But Jones is a fragile reed on which to build a tactical scheme. He may be corruptible or unstable or just not know what to do next. Therefore it is foolish to use him as a cornerstone going forward. What does make sense, however, is to copy the elements in his accidental success to push a real tactical scheme forward. Things are at that stage where people are no longer content to listen to speeches, but they are not yet at the point where people want to go out and set their hair on fire. What leaders/organizers must do now is give their followers an actionable way forward. Something effective, legal and easy to do.
If they build this, they will come.
The only reason people are so willing to say that Terry Jones is crazy is because we all know how bat-shit insane Muslims are. I don’t think he’s crazy at all. Just a man who sees the hideous way Muslims consistently behave in the world, who A.) can’t think of a better way to address it, and B.) knows that nothing short of giving them a dose of their own medicine will suffice.
Ancient rules of talion. It works. It’s not polite to say it, but when 15 Saudis flew our planes into our buildings on our soil, we should have bombed 15 royal palaces. When 3 thousand of us died, we should have made certain that 30,000 of them died within days. The only way to beat back the sprawling poisoned tentacles of Islam is to whack Muslims every time they crawls out of their box.
In addition – the dynamics which the Muslims have created are inherently unstable. If one pastor with a following of 50 can pretty much ruin everything we’ve been trying to accomplish since 9/11, doesn’t this say more about the insanity of Muslims than it does about any small-time pastor? If one guy can push a button and get the entire Muslim world to go berzerk for something the Muslims do to us every day — then how well can high-grade bull-shit like “winning their hearts and minds” ever work????
We’ve spent a trillion dollars and sacrificed thousands of our bravest to bring some semblance of civilization to the Muslim sewers in Iraq and Afghanistan. What does it tell you about the prospects of coexisting with Muslims when one man can put all the blood sweat and tears into the ditch with one rustic action in a remote Florida town?
Regardless of what President Obama thinks religious tolerance was in the US the current name calling is nothing compared to what happened even before the US was declared an independent republic. The Piligrms came to escape oppression and promptly suppressed Catholics and paganism but only when it was safe to do so concerning the latter. The Puritans were even worse as they managed to persecute their own members. During the Revolution the Church of England picked the wrong side and never has recovered its position or moral position in the US. The Amish and Mennonites only survived because they simply had moved to the frontier and held their own against the Indians and the authorities. The Great Awakening saw Catholic and Episcopalian churches burned to the ground. The Mormons were driven from the Midwest by law and violence and to top it off had to fight a war with the US.
Muslims, like other relgions, will have to fight for their position in American society not the because the better sort idealize this differences but that they prove they can function in American society. And by and large the 2nd generation is doing just that while the first and the religious tourists are still squabbling over who grabbed Acre first.
My brother had an idea.
Buy land in the KSA.
Build a church on it.
Perform mass continually in it.
Defend it from attacking Muslims with metal storm and other defensive weapons.
(this could also be done in Florida with burning korans)
It is the compliment to OBLs lure America into Afghanistan to die strategy.
It’s simple and fairly easy to burn a Koran, and an individual can do it. It’s a good start.
It’s also simple and fairly easy to burn a mosque, and a small group can do it. That would be the next step, and it can be done multiple times; unfortunately, it’s illegal.
A rather larger step is to burn the Kaaba, and everything for 400 yards or more around it. For that, legality or illegality is irrelevant – because only a government can do it. So how much longer is it going to be, and how many more millions are going to be killed by the “Religion of Peace”, before one of the governments that can do that actually does it? And which government is that going to be? I would bet on France, or maybe Russia.
I disagree vehemently with those who criticze Petraeus. This man is on the ground. He personally knows many, many Iraqis, and Afghans who are helping us because they reject the brutality of the radicals. They risk their lives with our soldiers, and they do not deserve gratuitous insult of their religion, whether faithfully practiced or modified. Most Americans don’t care about what a person believes so long as they act like decent human beings. As Americans, we have certainly beliefs about equality and freedom. We are defending these beliefs against the behaviour that we find abhorent. We can not see inside a person’s heart and it is stupid to judge on the basis of a label. Yes, we can be wary of groups (or people like Rauf) because many of that group are our enemies, but we can’t condemn everyone who happened to be born a Muslim.
Jones is wrong because his actions are dumb. He is just like those who defend Rauf. We have to be smarter. We have to show steadfastness in our beliefs, not the petulence of a six year old.
You know, after this whole thing blows over, some enterprising comedy screen writer should come up with a spoof of this fiasco. The imam, the preacher, the world leaders and generals, the religious leaders, the main stream media–all of them would be insanely funny and idiotic characters in a movie, play, or a show on ice in Vegas.
Years ago, courageously Salman published his novel, clearly stated that the contents of the Quran are Satanic Verses. And Salman survived the death ‘fatwa’ of Khomeini, even that Salman was practically alone at the publishing moment. And Khomeini was the first to meet the judgment of his Creator. The heavenly power kind of proved that Salman could not be more correct.
What happened nowadays is quite tragic.
What Terry Jones are doing is merely emphasizing what Salman Rushdi stated in the past. And Terry faced condemnation from Quran lovers and ‘Jesus lovers’. Therefore, those ‘Jesus lovers’ will surely face harsh consequence for their blind condemnation toward a courage heavenly servant.
One take away from the Terry Jones incident is the knowledge that little people have the ability to leverage some mighty big chess pieces around the board. Not necessarily in the direction one may want them to go but far enough to upset the plans of the chessmasters.
The Muslim Rage on Demand gambit can be played only so many times before it becomes obvious to even the NYT editorial board that this so called spontaneous response is an orchestrated event. We learned that from the Muhammed cartoon fiasco. You gotta’ believe that even the most soft headed liberal will eventually tire of being played for the fool.
Rauf went all-in with his declaration that unless opponents back off on the GZM that the Rage on Demand murder toll will exceed the number of cartoon murders. Since Rauf just returned from a trip to Islamoworld it is not unreasonable to believe that Rauf got his marching orders from the OIC.
If you take away Rage on Demand then what do the Islamists have left?
YEEAAHH…
Some kind of Chess-playing: COURAGE versus COWARDICE.
Just like a PAWN threat toward a ROOK.
Just one more day, and we will see which one will be the winner.
YEEAAHH…
Some kind of Chess-playing: COURAGE versus COWARDICE.
Just like a PAWN threatening a ROOK.
Of course, involving Psy-war around!
Just one more day, and we will see which one will be the winner.
Wake-up America, ‘home of the braves’.
MEMO OBAMA: if you think burning the Koran would be a recruitment call to Jihadists, what do you think 9/11 was?
But if someone provided an ‘actionable’ option — such as a vote, or a petition, or an act of civil disobedience most people could live with — then the chances of getting someone to go along rise dramatically.
What if millions of Americans checked the Koran out of their local library and never brought it back? Just paid the replacement cost, but never brought it back? Of course, you’d have to publicize what was happening, but it might serve as one of those unifying acts of “No” that wretchard has mentioned.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but……..
……..it seems to me that the GZM imams, with all that money at their beck and call, were backed down by fifty impoverished goobers in Florida who wanted to burn a few Korans.
Isn’t that really what happened?
I apologize if anyone else made this suggestion already. I have not read all the comments in this entry. What if the good pastor makes it “Read the Koran aloud” day instead. I believe that if people heard what is written in the Koran that this would serve a better purpose than burning the book. Possibly starting with the last verses would be best, since I believe that the last verses are supposed to take precedence over earlier (kinder, gentler)ones.
Non-muslim actors reading it 24/7 on C-Span maybe?
Website for Mac Haque
http://tpoi.blogspot.com
http://bauliana.blogspot.com
People have been burning things in protest for years…..bras, flags, bibles, likenesses etc. Burning a book is non-violent. Americans are now scared to protest a something that they don’t agree with and view as oppressive and violent.
If someone is going to burn a Koran in protest of large violent and oppressive factions of Islam………….isn’t telling them not to burn a book because people will get killed kind of illogical? Basically you’re saying “don’t protest violence, or it might get violent”.
http://doodiepants.com/2010/09/09/burning-the-koran-on-september-11th-911/
I tell the Muslim’s let them go ahead and let the Ko’ran burn. If the actions of one unheard of Pastor on the lunatic fringe is capable of denting the belief of a billion plus people worldwide and conceivably reduce it to ashes – now is the time to put it to test.
The Pastor is not doing a service to humanity – but one to his cohorts in the Islamic world. It pays to keep people restive and divided.
Let the good times roll.
Youtube and Photoshop would allow a million Qurans to be virtually burnt everywhere always by millions of spontaneously disgusted individuals. If I saw my holy book being “burned” like that, I wouldn’t know what to do: was it really being burned? Or was a picture of it being burned? Where and when? Did the atrocity happen in some other place in the past (where and when the burning event occurred) or on the screen in the present (as I see the record of the earlier event being played and replayed)?
This sounds metaphysical but for those who believe literally in metaphysical stuff –that a man wrote down the words of Allah as they were spoken to him– it is not abstract, it is life and death. So let’s use technology to help them experience the madness in rich new ways.
Hat tip to E.M. Smith (“The Chiefio” blog) for the excellent idea about burning pictures of burning pictures of burning books.
oMan- What do you do with the millions that have memorized the ‘book’ from cover to cover?
what we are being told is that this pastor should be held accountable for his actions but the muslim world should not. they are justified in killing innocent infidels if their religion is mocked. i have yet to see one condemnation for the “muslim worlds” violent reaction…. apparently it is something we have to accept and bow down to.
The Burning of the Comic Books.
David Horowitz recalls*:
“Every summer there would be campfire dedicated to the ritual burning of comic books that were “imperialist” or had anti-communist themes.”
*Radical Son
A Generational Odyssey
Simon and Schuster
1997
The “moderate muslims” have a nice little con game going here. Their left hand strokes us while their right hand is holding a knife to our throats. And they tell us, with just the right hint of regret in their voices” “You’d better give in to the demands of that right hand. We are embarrased by this but we really can’t control what that sucker does.”
Wonder how this strategy would work in reverse? Gee Mr. and Mrs. Muslim we have this unruly Air Force Wing flying B-2s and armed with massive nukes. We wish we could control them but unfortunately they’re threatening to turn the entire mid-east to a sheet of plate glass if you guys don’t moderate your behaviour. Do it NOW!
The Arab ‘Muslim’ constitute less that 10% of the Islamic demography. The so-called ‘Islamic world’ should not be held captive to their problems and threats to whoever….and there is no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim’
Book-burning has such a wonderful history.
32. Scott, WRT the keys to WWIII
He may; Gavrilo Princip held a a key in the form of a small pistol when he stood on that street corner in Sarajevo on the 28th of June, 1914. Millions died as a result of the spark that he struck.
Seemingly tiny (and/or crazy) people can have huge impacts on the course of history.
Frankly, I could give a damn about a koran getting torched, I am delighted that this episode has highlighted the screaming hypocrisy of the Lefties.
BTW The fact that Islam goes out of it’s way to not like dogs tells you a lot about Mohhammed. I mean, how can you not like dogs? Cats maybe, but dogs? Really, as a religious principle?
95. Dwight
“Book-burning has such a wonderful history.”
As does stoning, beheading and hanging.
Sometimes you just have to talk to people in a language that they understand.
One has to wonder at how fragile the Islamic faith is when the combustion of a few pieces of paper can challenge it’s existance.
there is no such thing as a ‘moderate Muslim’
I have to disagree with that. There is no such thing as moderate Islam but individuals who identify as Muslim but know little about Muhammed and the Koran can believe most anything. Don’t forget that the penalty for not playing along within the Muslim community can be death.
The great irony of the Western (lack of) understanding of Islam is that the bad guys are the ‘good’ Muslims. The Muslims most knowledgeable about the Koran, the biographies, and the sayings of Muhammed – like that lying sack of shit Imam Rauf – are the ones trying to impose the will of their allah and his apostle on the rest of us. That is exactly what allah and muhammed commanded them to do.
You can develop a very good knowledge of what Islam is really all about by reading the Koran and the biographies in chronological order. I don’t want to give away the story but you will find that muhammed went from lonely prophet to popular profiteer when he started preaching that allah legitimized rape, robbery and murder for everybody who joined his gang. What’s not to like for a young man with zero prospects stuck in the middle of the desert?
I recommend this website, particularly for those who identify as Muslim who have never studied the early history of Islam.
The author has arranged the Koran in chronological order along with the most highly regarded biographies so you get a good sense of how Islam changed and developed over the lifetime of muhammed. The author very carefully separates his own comments from the actual text of the wisdom documents so there can be no confusion about what is interpretation and what are the actual words of the holy text. He covers nearly every chapter of the Koran so he cannot be accused of cherrypicking either.
Frankly I’m beginning to really like the Florida pastor. Maybe he wasn’t raised to play poker–but I think he’ll learn. If he fails this year to get the mosque stopped — there’s always next year.
Bulletin inserts at the mosque:
Property Committee is looking to purchase some land next to the mosque, requiring eviction of certain kafirs who refuse to sell their property. The blessed prophet tells us, “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned.” K 5:033. Meeting this Monday at 7 pm in fellowship hall.
Evangelism Committee meets this Thursday evening to discuss ways of winning new converts to our mosque community. A study of K 8:012 will serve as our guide, the words from our blessed prophet, “…make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.” See you at 7 pm, and please bring a covered dish to round out our fellowship.
Eccumenical Group to be formed on Wednesday evenings, beginning this week. We wish to better our outreach with the community. Strategies will be developed to reach other community leaders of different faiths. We wish to be faithful to the call of our blessed prophet who commands us, “…strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them… K 9:073. See you at 7 pm, and bring a friend!
Last year we had caricature pictures of allah all over the net. Maybe this year we could have utube pictures of the koran being burned all over the net.
the waste of paper known as the koran should be burned.
the florida preacher is a hero. it is symbolic of those who destroyed the world trade centre.
those who say the preacher is a nutjob are capitulating their sovereignty.
this is what separates people who will stand with you thick and thin from those who will not.
burn on for me.
Hey yall, Whiskey has a good post about this subject. He’s on the blogroll if you don’t have him bookmarked. Also, if you want to see some good youtube about this whole koran burning, go to IOWNTHEWORLD. There are a few funny vids about it. I’m not a shill for either site and hope it doesn’t come across that way. I’ve been reading BC for many years (i’m always punching up though when it comes to commenting), so i’m not a noob. I get a sense that this business marks a turning point in the public display regarding islam withing America. The old PC rules are breaking and being swept away. Survival instinct is kicking in within the electorate. To paraphrase W all those years ago, “you’re either with us, or against us”.
Sorry Wretch, I just basically echoed the point you made in #71. Like I said, I’m always punching up when commenting here.
RAUF’S CNN INTERVIEW, OR C-ordoba N-on N-egotiable
Imam Rauf warns that the suffering, anguish and turmoil that he caused because of his “mistaken” Cordoba House mosque will only worsen if the mistake is made not to build it at Ground Zero. For, says he, that would trigger an explosion of anti-American rage that would add to the body count of 9/11 and bring more tears to American families.
Now that Rauf is repackaging his mosque as a national security issue with US lives at stake will Obama reward him with Bob Gates’ job as Secretary of Defense? That would ensure that the radicals don’t win and that American ideals will triumph in the end. Salaam.
Click my name for my top five blog at Townhall.com
Hey don’t be so hard on Obama. I remember how the country’s political intellectual and military leaders pleaded for Andres Serrano to stop when he floated his “Piss Christ” into the public weal. They all begged him to reconsider because America is all about respect for religion…and …snore…and…zzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
We have no leadership. Obama Hilary Petraeus have no business getting involved in this. They presume that 1. Americans are just champing at the bit to turn rabid and murderous nightriders ready to lynch Muslims at the drop of a hat and 2. That Muslims will automatically turn rabid and murderous if their sensitivities are manhandled. Their so-called concern is presumptuous and offensive. We have to have some kind of contact with each other – it might not be the correct kind of contact – but we have got to somehow descend into the real – as opposed to this walking on eggshell bullshit pushed on us by non-leaders.
COA 1: Ignore the Threat
COA 2: Surrender to the Threat
COA 3: Reform the Threat
COA 4: Eliminate the Threat
We spent the 1970s-1990s on COA 1, the end result was 9/11
We spent the 2000′s on COA 3 or Conjecture 3-The Golden Hour, end result uncertain, but we are perceived as weak.
We are fast approaching COA 2 or COA 4. COA 2 is unacceptable leaving only COA 4 or Conjecture 2.
Our weakness and appeasement will cause the deaths of 100′s of millions.
May G_d forgive us, for on that day we will all be surely damned.
As much as I detest burning another’s holy book just to be provocative, and have no admiration for the pastor, realize he did not arise in a vacuum. When true evil is being mollycoddled by the elites and politicians, when those protesting the inhuman offensiveness of the mosque at GZ are demonized as racists and anti-american, when 6 children in Israel are left orphans and our state department worries about “the effect this will have on the peace process,” the time has come to fight fire with fire and fight this evil BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY! Muslims have no qualms about burning bibles and torahs and destroying ancient religious Buddhist staues, but if anyone sneezes in the direction of their religious symbols, these mental toddlers will throw genocidal tantrums. Throughout Europe, you can get arrested for giving offense to Islam, and now in the US shariah creep and mega-victory-mosques are taking over, we are the last lights in the Western world with the freedom of speech to fight this. If koran burning gets these muslims to respect the west (even if untrue, at least the threatened burning made the Florida imam consider that the GZ mosque should not be built, while all the impassioned pleas of patriotic Americans and 9/11 victims’ families could not make a dent in the process), it means that extremism against these radical Muslims works.
What if only the extremist pastor Jones and the Westboro Baptist church stood between a future of darkness for our children under the intolerance of Shariah Law? I hope you liberals are happy. You created this universe where offense to Islam is more of a crime than Muslim terrorism, and effectively justifies the latter. You say it is OK to urinate on the crucifix and burn the American flag, and remove bible verses from public places show that you are in bed with Muslims whenever THEIR sensities are hurt or demands are placed. And I hope you Muslims are happy too. The logical outcome of this means that the day will come when a country sickened by your relentless demands and genocidal intolerance will nuke Mecca to get your attention.
Matt # 77
A writer already did, here:
dexquire.com
we have no leadership, you are correct,and that is why we are in chaos, and why these murderous fascists the followers of islam, find us vulnerable.
our president may be an immam, it would no surprise from his peculiar judgements and actions taken in offense of american people and in defense of islam.
if that is not the case, obama is weak as a string and has no business being president. he is really putting us in harm’s way and the “walking on eggshells”, as you point out, makes things much worse. these moslem cretins always take that as a sign of weakness. in any event, moslems are our enemies, and they are here, amongst us.
you can put me on the list of rabid moslem haters. i don’t want their mosques anywhere or their insane notions of piety, their murderous mentality, their threats, or their arrogance in attempting to insinuate their medieval, backward, barbaric sh*t into our society.
Well, I called it. Allow me to quote me . . . “the Florida Vicar will soon be bribed to repent of his idea, showing that the right is willing to step back from an offensive intention, unlike the left and their Ground Zero Mosque.”
Right on cue, we hear from Newt “Over the Desk” Gingrich that Rauf should “have the same courage and the same commitment to America” as Quran-burning pastor and take “an equally big step back”
Let me guess, that was just a lucky shot on my part. No one possesses the kind of political insight and character analysis required to predict such rhetoric. And yet . . . when it comes to filtering the miasma of conservative principles and Foxian spin, I am an undisputed master. Perhaps I should tweet that.
Meanwhile, being the Drudge acolytes you all are, you know by now that more good Christian churches are planning Koran burnings – good god-fearing people in the hallowed flyover states of Tennessee, Kansas, and Wyoming all set to grab their 15 minutes of fame by torching their own dignity and our American principles along with the holy book of more than a billion people.
So much for the “lone nutjob” excuse. Congratulations. You done graduated from tea baggers to full blown Nazis. And all it took was the opportunity to be on the TeeVee. (With any luck, right after the rerun of Walker Texas Ranger, you know the one where he karate chops the bad guys? You remember that episode? I think it was called, “Bad Guys Deserve My Karate Chop.”).
I also asked a simple question, “Is Christianity a religion of peace?” I was a bit disappointed in your collective inability to answer that question. I was wrong about that. I shouldn’t have been disappointed.
Got a match?
Well, guyz n galz, remember, the ethos of national socialism and the jihadism have been twinned for a very long time. Not counting the image-rich Ottoman vs Lawrence of Arabia interlude –the real fight there was Arab vs Turk over territory –clearly since the European R&R truce of 1918-1939. Since WWII ended with a truce also (USSR and USA alliance requires a national or transnational socialist American president), an atomic rather than a troop and ammo R&R, nothing much got settled, except that European/Eurasian national socialism learned that North America left alone to produce military power would always tilt the fight for the Japan-to-England ‘world island’.
So, unless we get our minds right here in the states, we are due to be neutralized, at best by our own politics, at worst by however many 9/11s it takes, or an all out thermonuclear ICBM attack, if our retaliation can be shortcircuited by a national socialist administration.
“Burn that mother down.”
http://tinyurl.com/c46j8b
Betty(thinksshe)Knows,
you labor under the delusion that we seek your approval.
I wonder if General Petraeus deliberately channeled Brer Rabbit’s “Please don’t throw me in the briar patch” when he publicly condemned the planned Koran Burning — thereby assuring that massive numbers of Muslims around the world would get to hear about it?
Muslim leaders know that Obama is an Empty Suit, if not an outright convert to their cause. Petraeus made sure that those Muslim leaders now realize that Obama does not speak for Americans, and that there still is an iron fist inside Obama’s fluffy limp glove.
Ordinary Americans have heard Obama defend the Constitutional property rights of objectionable Mulims, and heard him not defend the Constitutional First Amendment rights of an objectionable Pastor. That’s a win. Muslim leaders have realized that the American people will not go along indefinitely with Obama’s kow-towing. That’s a win. The Good Lord works in mysterious ways!
Muslims have a theology that leaves them no flexibility regarding the Koran.
The Koran as book is an earthly production of Mo’s recitation of the Koran. But the Koran actually predates Gabriel’s recitation to Mo, since the Koran is preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22) from/for eternity.
So Allah from eternity co-existed with the tablets. (So much for Allah being alone, I guess.) This co-existence entails Allah’s foreknowledge, of course, of all of the contradictions and abrogations included in the Koran. Allah just wanted it that way, because he is Allah, and Allah knows best, etc., because if he wanted it another way it would have been that way, and besides if anyone disagrees, smite their necks.
For Christians, the Word is with God, and is God, and the words of the Bible are inspired words, but not the Word itself. There is a distinction between “Logos” and “rhemata.”
Christians must first of all believe upon the Word-Christ, which has a claim on Christians prior to the words of the Bible. (Well, o.k., a few wars have been fought over what this means.)
Muslims have only the Koran. As is.
I kind of like the humanity and humanizing message of the Gospel:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”
According to Politico this video has gone viral. The guy doesn’t get nominated
by the Stark County Ohio Republican committee but he delivers
a speech that could be a speech delivered on 100′s of different campaign trails. The speech as once true and a stem winder.
Phil Davison, GOP Candidate, Delivers Stark County Treasurer Speech, 9 8 2010
So many good comments, so many intelligent responses! We Pajama readers should be proud of ourselves. Seriously. One thing I will say. I like book burning no more than anyone else. But I question the premise of Petraeus’s resonse. The jihadists/Islamofascists/Muslim extremists (you pick your preferred term) do what they do. If we go along with the whole “if you do X, then we will do something really nasty to you or yours” premise, THEN WE ARE LIKE THE FAMILIES OF KIDNAP VICTIMS WAITING BY THE PHONE! THEY CONTROL US! Then if they do something really nasty, the world will just shrug its collective shoulders and say “What can you expect? The Americans did X, so it is only natural that Muslims blew up an airplane.” Just normal stuff?? NO WAY. THIS IS PERVERTED. WE CANNOT GET TO THE POINT WHERE THIS IS CONSIDERED NORMAL. There is no way in hell you can equate, say, burning a book and blowing up an airplane. The reason we are fighting them in Afganistan (and more covertly in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia etc) is because they act this way. When the mullahs declared a fatwa on Salmon Rushdie for his “blasphemous” book, we all should have bought copies. When Muslims boycotted the Danish company Lego and attacked Danish consulates throughout the Middle East, we ALL should have bought Legos and taken to wearing t-shirts with the Mohammed cartoon on it in solidarity. Just as the Danes all took to wearing Stars of David when the Nazis made Danish Jews wear them. Although I hate the ‘book burning’ part of Rev Jones “stunt” (to use Obama’s word), I applaud his impulse to protest pro-Islam political correctness and to push back against the incursions of an unenlightened religion. We need to get comfortable saying outloud and in public that we have problems with many of the tenets of Islam. We need to find adult ways to push back and also to support people who are attacked. Keeping our “doubts” to ourselves will only let things get worse.
Fill a bunch of boxes with all religious texts including “an inconvenient truth”, “earth in the balance” and a bunch of porn. Or at least tell the media that thats what the boxes contain and burn them all on a huge pyre. Stand around same, smile and cook smores….afterward make note of who offers grace and who extends the hate.
I have to say, as an English-speaking Israeli in exile, that my good buddies Imam Rauf and Barack Hussein Obama have changed my views on Pastor Jones. Let him burn, let Muslims riot, let the Western security forces and citizens deal with it. My cousin, who was on Flight 11, never declared war against Islam; neither did the people in Israel I knew murdered during the ‘al Aqsa Intifada.’ Neither the six orphans from Beit Haggai, whose parents the Taqiya-fluent US State Dept determine are (were) an equal danger to peace as those who murdered them.
I am sorry it comes to this point, but here we are.
Just for perspective:
Father Manuel Musallem, head of Gaza’s Latin church, told the AP that Muslims have ransacked, burned and looted a school and convent that are part of the Gaza Strip’s small Romany Catholic community. He told the AP that crosses were broken, damage was done to a statue of Jesus, and at the Rosary Sister School and nearby convent, prayer books were burned.
#90 Mac Haque – Simple, really. Burn them as well.
This whole matter is stupid
Men have died by the millions fighting over renditions of the Bible and the Quran, and religions have collided and millions have died over the dispute of the Bible vs. the Quran.
It continues today. A little background from what I have learned, the truth is for you to decide, fair and balanced.
The Bible is a collection of sacred scripture of Judaism and Christianity. There is no single version. The Hebrew Bible (in part the Torah), contains 24 books that were rearranged into 39 by Christian denominations, while complete Christian Bibles range from the 66 books of the Protestant canon to 81 books in the Ethiopian Orthodox Bible. Constantine in about 313AD held counsel and they decided which books to include in this newly ordained religion of Christianity. The King James Version is an English translation of the Christian Holy Bible begun in 1604 and completed in 1611 by the Church of England, which further redacted the original gospels.
The Quran, is alleged by Muslims as the original works of Mohammed, but the book they revere as the final revelation of Allah to Mohammed was a version compiled by an early caliph almost two decades after Mohammed’s death. According to major Islamic sources, he then ordered all rival versions burned.
About 18 years after Mohammed’s death in 632, Uthman bin Affan, one of his sons-in-law and the third caliph, ordered that all circulating versions of the Quran be brought to him, compiled in one standardized version, and the others burned.
The story is related in the Hadith (Islamic canon) by Sahih al-Bukhari, who recounted (in Book 61, No. 510) that there were grave concerns about Muslims fighting over the differing versions.
“So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, ‘Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may compile the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you,’” Bukhari wrote. (Hafsa was one of Mohammed’s 11 widows.) After having four men draw up a standardized copy, “Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.”
If the above is true, then it can be reasonably said that both the Bible and the Quran are really but bastardizations of what “others” merely think what was said and meant by Abraham, Jesus or Mohammed, all believing in the same God. Yet both religions are ready to die for what “others” merely think what was said and meant.
I believe in GOD, but I don’t think he meant things to be this way.
This whole thing of building Mosques and burning Qurans is merely meant to cause world riots by both religions, the ends justify the means.
If you think that the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition is the same as Allah then you don’t know squat about either.
Look – this Terry Jones guy is an idiot and his Koran burning publicity stunt is silly.
It is, however, ONLY silly. It is not a world class affront to anyone.
In case you haven’t noticed – people burn bibles and flags in the Muslim world by the thousands every day. People have been burning flags and bibles in the street in protest of what this hillbilly preacher MIGHT do. By and large – Christians don’t bat an eye. Our government is even less offended. It is just a book. The Word is holy – the paper it is printed on is just paper. Since Gutenberg we have been printing bibles as fast as they wear out. Go ahead. Buy a stack of Bibles. Burn them. We will print more and you just supported a Bible printing company with your money. Whatever.
Muslims, however, stand ready to react to the smallest of perceived slights in the same way that Muslims always react to perceived slights. They will bomb and kidnap and rape and kill and torture and behead. They will do this in the same way that they have since the 7th century when Mohammad was the one personally doing the kidnapping, raping, killing, torturing and beheading (they didn’t have bombs yet). We have as a culture become so sensitive to these ridiculously fragile Muslim sensibilities that when a nobody preacher decides to go to Wall mart, spend ten bucks of his own money on an English language Koran to burn in his own yard as an impotent little protest against the culture that killed 3000 Americans nine years earlier – the President of the United States gets personally involved to try to prevent him from doing that!
The issue is not what Muslims do or think. (Their position has been made abundantly clear over the last 1500 years). The issue is not even this Florida preacher. He is an idiot nobody. The issue is, quite frankly – us. If this preacher burns his Koran and Muslims react like Muslims always do and we in turn BLAME THE PREACHER then we have already lost. If we have adopted the belief that Muslims have a permanent right not to be offended in the slightest and that if they are offended then anything they do in response to that offence is justified – up to and including mass murder – then we have already lost. We are already living in an Islamic world as dims – second class citizens. They don’t have to defeat us if we voluntarily submit.
It’s as if the Balloon Boy suddenly had a political agenda…great television, but NOT news. At the very least, the MSM should refrain from showing this bozo’s face, his church, or repeating his name. Let him remain anonymous. The public gets the story, but Jones doesn’t get to play us all for fools, and the Islamic world doesn’t have to throw a hissy fit.
I find it ever harder to give Muslims the benefit of first amendment rights when it comes to building their mosque a few blocks away from Ground Zero. There is no doubt in my mind they are taking advantage of those portions of our legal system that benefit their attempts to make inroads into our society. Given this, I find Wretchard’s post quite in line with my own thinking: sometimes it takes a crazy to communicate with other crazies. I would not support book burning of any kind, and did not support this when I first heard of it, but I’m certainly in favor of getting the attention of the Muslim world. F
Donald Trump says that he talked to the real estate guy
behind the ground zero mosque. He says he thinks its about
the money and not about the mosque.
He also says that China is eating our lunch.
Juxtapose the Pastor’s “threat” to the absence of similar charges considering the in-your-face Ground Zero Mosque “Islamic Center” (an attempt at “dialogue”, of course) and you begin to understand that the true radicals (Islamists) are anything, if not versed in this country’s insatiable penchant for self-indignation. I welcome Pastor Jones’ “insanity” as far as it serves to correct this contradiction.
In the meantime, we need not fear the barbarians at the gate as much as the fools in our own house.
124. Robert Hawks,
You are right about deliberate provocation, the question of who is provoking who I will leave for histroy to sort out. All must be wary of the Law of Unintended Consequences.
You have a good point in that the “current accepted version” of the main texts of all the Abrahamic religions have been heavily edited (and many times for some very suspicious reasons).
I am guessing that the Buddist, Taoist and Hindu texts all went through a similar “editing” as well.
The underlying creed does seem to survive intact though, Christianity preaches faith, love and kindness, the same cannot be said for Islam. Very bad people have used the words of the Christian Scripture for evil purposes over the centuries, but that does not mean the the word is the problem. The Koran does not have need of twisting to make it a recipie for bloodshed.
Remember, early Christians allowed themselves to martyred rather than renounce their faith, early Muslims killed people that would not submit as Mohhammed watched. Therein lies Islam’s core problem.
We have an anti-American emotionally,spiritually and intellectually empty with no logos whatsoever. …..no balls elected to flub up in horrible ways! He is so
Horrible one has to believe it is only to awaken us
To our heads being in the sand. I don’t and do see how
He can continue his idiotic positions. ; he has several
Issues of disturbances. Sociopathy and narcissism at the top
130. RedState
“..we need not fear the barbarians at the gate as much as the fools in our own house.”
Well put; the barbarians may wail at our fortress gates but cannot force their way in, meanwhile we must mind the fools in our own house for they will leave the postern gate open out of spite.
C/128; of course they are eating our lunch. They’re building power generation facilities, and what comes out of those things is power.
The ex-CEO of Shell John Hofmeister was on tv the other day, saying among other things that this economy was sabotaged by government pressure on wall street to build 15 years worth of housing in 5 years, and that due to that, we somehow have a drilling moratorium, new laws that do not have any regulations written yet, and companies that cannot set a capital spending plan without these unwritten-yet regulations, which as soon as they are written will create a cascade of lawfare challenging on health and safety grounds every drilling permit, and that, even though the moratorium is on deep water drilling, of the 90 shallow water permits routinely requested since the Macondo blowout, precisely 4 have been granted, and the gulf coast petro infrastructure is seeing the handwriting on the wall and becoming unmanned, with what is mobile, moving out, and what isn’t mobile, laying off core hands.
(BTW, as a retired drilling fluid specialist with extensive gulf coast and hi-temp hi pressure experience who has studied the accident intensely and knows personnel in SW Louisiana who had friends and family attached to the project, may i offer this assessment? “Macondo an accident, my happy ass!”)
Yesterday, i watched a sour, dead-eyed EPA spokesman say that EPA plans to investigate the growing (and supply-side retail price lowering to under $4 an mcf!) shale/natural gas industry, starting with the Marcellus shale nat gas industry in the northeast, because “EPA has to be certain that the production processes are not harming the public health through drinking water contamination”.
So, upon the last best hope, the USA’s own shale gas, these people are loosing their hordes of (highly-paid & job-secure) regulators, with results that you and i already know will kill or cripple the people’s access to affordable natural gas.
That this ruination of affordable power may itself have any effect on the public health is a question EPA will never ever address –if you ask it, you will get the glazed eye. If you press, you will get an angry telling of a sob story anecdote, the calculated mendacity pushed to the outer limit of deniability, every time. And no follow ups, please, “we want to make shoo-er that everyone gets a chance to ask a question”.
Anybody in any doubt anymore as to what’s happening here?
So yes, Donald Trump is dead right.
I have THE solution to the Ground Zero Mosque controversy:
Build a MacDonald’s in Mecca. The Moslems get to demonstrate their tolerance for other cultures, and we sell enough burgers and fries to pull our economy out of the recession!
Who could argue against that???!!
Obama in his press conference is still pushing the Hijacked Religion claptrap. So long as Western politicians refuse to face the reality of Islam this kind of nonsense will continue.
“If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.” Muhammed’s own words – Qur’an 8:58
“The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.” Muhammed’s own words – Tabari VIII:38
I know that picking quotes is not particularly instructive but it may be when you come to understand that Islam is 100% about Muhammed. What Muhammed did. What Muhammed said. What Muhammed said he got from Allah. That is 100% of Islam. There is no other Islam. There is not a good Islam and a bad Islam. Anybody who knows better and tells you otherwise is the enemy of civil society.
Take away their Rage on Demand and they got nothing.
Kinuachdrach @ 115: Well, it had not occurred to me that Petraeus could be so subtle.
I feel mildly sorry for any American Muslims who are caught in the middle in all this. If there are any. And I guess there are, I guess I know some. Too bad they cannot leave their “faith” without getting beheaded, huh.
deleted, too far off thread –sorry–
Dinesh D’Souza has an excellent article at Forbes called How Obama Thinks which says basically that BHO does not believe in American exceptionalism, but rather is implementing the anticolonialism of his father. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0927/politics-socialism-capitalism-private-enterprises-obama-business-problem.html
“So much for the “lone nutjob” excuse. Congratulations. You done graduated from tea baggers to full blown Nazis. And all it took was the opportunity to be on the TeeVee. (With any luck, right after the rerun of Walker Texas Ranger, you know the one where he karate chops the bad guys? You remember that episode? I think it was called, “Bad Guys Deserve My Karate Chop.”)”
You are a walking cliche’…
To 139. Weary G
I don’t think the tea party will be supporting obama any time soon so your claim they have suddenly seen the nazi light seems a bit of a stretch…. Now if obama starts threatening to throw them in ovens then maybe the teaparty will reconsider hating nazism and join obama in a nice big hail hitler and welcome socialism and all its evils.
Richard’s citation of Sarah Palin’s remark pretty much says it all:
“People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation — much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.”
Looks like 75 percent of all Americans have the backbone and brains to recognize and react against the deliberate insult and spit-in-our-eye provocation of the Ground Zero Mosque.
Bloomberg may be a dupe, but Obama is not. He knows the Ground Zero Mosque is an insult and a provocation, and he’s for it. 75 percent of all Americans are now wise to him also.
JC in KZ @ 60 said:
“Petraeus in this case is doing exactly his job, which is to look out for the welfare of his soldiers while performing the mission he was given.”
vb @ 76 said:
“I disagree vehemently with those who criticize Petraeus. This man is on the ground. He personally knows many, many Iraqis, and Afghans who are helping us because they reject the brutality of the radicals.”
I agree with JC and vb. Petraeus through grit and cunning, won the Iraq War (He’s America’s best living general). If Petraeus thinks the Koran burning thing is a bad idea then as far as I’m concerned the discussion is over.
Kinuachdrach @ 115 said:
“I wonder if General Petraeus deliberately channeled Brer Rabbit’s “Please don’t throw me in the briar patch” when he publicly condemned the planned Koran Burning — thereby assuring that massive numbers of Muslims around the world would get to hear about it?”
Petraeus is always thinking outside of the box and his thought process is never linear, i.e. he’s always planning for the reaction to the reaction to the reaction. Never take Petraeus at face value. Always consider what his plan is for the response to his original action.
Petraeus is a brilliant general but he does frighten me. ***If he wanted to,*** Petraeus could set himself up as some sort of Lord Protector of the Commonwealth. He possesses all of the raw ingredients and is well positioned.
Watch Petraeus closely. If Obama, the moonbats and Wall Street criminals turn everything into manure (which seems likely) then it will be Petraeus who “saves the day”. Unfortunately I’m not convinced that having Patraeus as Lord Protector is a “good thing”. It’ll just be a slightly better version of “bad”.
Terry Jones is like Al Sharpton? Jones will be around for the next 20 years, eventually becoming a presidential friend and advisor as well as a important media figure. Say it ain’t so!
“I hope he understands that what he’s proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans” – Obama
It is? Since when? And which values exactly is he talking about?
“People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation — much like building a mosque at Ground Zero” – Palin
Politicians have to be cowardly to get elected. This is another of Sarah’s cowardly moments. If burning a Koran is offensive, can I urinate on it and film it for performance art? And get a government grant? How about I smear it dung as performance art? Can I download it to my computer then delete it? That’s destroying it, too. The Koran is no different than Dianetics or the Satanic Bible, and it deserves the same respect.
I believe a golden opportunity is being missed with this Koran contraversey. What Terry Joned should do is instead of burning a koran, he should tear out paged from the koran that refer to:
a. beating a disobedient wife
b. all references to Christains & Jews as the sons of “apes & Pigs”
c. references to Pedeophilia. I.ee. Mohammads 6 year old wife and his consumation of the marriahe when she turned 9 years-old.
If we do this, by the time we finish ripping out those types of passages, The koran will be a few short pages thick.
The Ruling Class really doesn’t have any true love of Islam or their sensibilities. They are being used as a tool. The real enemy, as they see it, is the prevailing mainstream culture of the US, which is usually seen as consisting of typical white persons who bitterly cling to their guns and religion. It is that very culture that is the chief social and political impediment to them transforming the country into their trashy utopia. And the core items which they find so repellent are the notions of self-reliance and personal autonomy. That is what they hate more than anything.
They champion Islam because most of the basic tenets of that religion are directly opposed to mainstream cultural values. Its just a mechanism to trash the prevailing culture. Its like lavishing all the candy to the other children in the presence of the hated stepchild so as to impress upon him what a rotten piece of garbage he is.
For too long the more honest segments of society have been entirely too decent with our enemies both foreign and domestic. Politeness must end in the face of unending rudeness. People could joke about “Bush-Chimpy-Hitler” and anybody who complained was seen as being humorless and somebody who didn’t care about free speech. But should anyone attack one of the Left’s cherished icons it provokes shrill rage which is usually accompanied by a demand for an apology. (Has anybody demanded an apology from Pastor Jones yet? If not I will be shocked.)
Its time to start mocking them relentlessly. Let there own rage show them up for what they are.
As for myself I wish I had the capital to create a factory that would produce designer toilet paper. It would have various chapters of the Koran printed on in Arabic script.
Robert Hawks @ 123 said:
“… it can be reasonably said that both the Bible and the Quran are really but bastardizations of what “others” merely think what was said and meant by Abraham, Jesus or Mohammed, all believing in the same God. Yet both religions are ready to die for what “others” merely think what was said and meant.”
This touches on the issue of canonical versus apocryphal versions of the Bible. As an amateur historian, I find the Book of Maccabees to be very interesting. Unfortunately the Book of Maccabees is considered apocryphal to different versions of the Bible. Likewise, I consider the Book of Revelations to be little more than a confused fairy tale but many evangelical denominations have made the Book of Revelations their central text. Who decided what was canonical versus apocryphal? Was it the Synod of Hippo or the First Council of Nicaea? What were their motivations and hidden agendas? Their whole rational for making certain texts canonical probably became obsolete over 1500 years ago.
I think we in this country are so focused on freedom that we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking that we can adapt to or accommodate anything.
This whole deal is really about one and only one thing: ISLAM AND AMERICA ARE INCOMPATIBLE.
The sooner we wrap our minds around that stark and disturbing truth, the better off we will all be.
Torching a koran in such a public way is NOT book burning: it’s political speech.
Book Burning refers to either Fahrenheit 451 or Nazis cleaning out the libraries.
Burning ONE BOOK, on camera is to call attention to the outrages within.
It is hardly different than burning Mein Kampf.
——-
I must have a thick skin because I don’t regard purchasing and then burning a tome because one wants to make a political statement is the slightest bit wrong.
I consider it a First Amendment right to free expression.
Anyone who discourages his actions tells me much about their support of free speech.
The fact that someone’s going to get upset? Give me a break. The more upset they are the more it need be done. Such emotion tells me that their brains have been tuned out.
Burning a koran = a direct protest against the sharia politics contained within the larger body of islamist thought.
————
Here and there I read references to ‘moderate muslims.’ I say watch out.
To the shock and horror of ex-patriate Americans long living in Tehran virtually to a person their ‘moderate muslim’ Western educated neighbors flipped into islamist mode full tilt when Khomeini came to town. Like flipping a psychic switch, it was.
For some reason the soft deceitful edge of islamism is consistently able to gull kafirs into thinking that this time it’s different; that this muslim can blend in and be a fellow true citizen. In the end, you discover that they show up like grasshoppers and end up becoming locusts. At some point, at some level of social dominance, they flip into Sharia rules!
This progression has never failed to occur. So forget your personal opinions. We are discussing the mass flow of history and cultural belief.
Time and again, islamists have defeated nations far more powerful than their own with this camel’s nose gambit.
So STOP pointing to your immediate peaceful muslim neighbor as exemplars. Instead, recall how often a muslim goes mohammed and guns down the neighborhood Jewry. Or how often the ‘quiet’ college muslim is scheming instant jihad upon his classmates.
The fact is, that as any muslim rises up Maslow’s scale bloody jihad becomes their highest self-actualization.
When AQ struck KSA’s Western Compounds six years ago priority was given to Dawa, the raising of islamist consciousness. Within seconds, half the muslim staff jumped on board with the terrorists, took up weapons and joined the suicide fight! They turned on the Indians and killed their co-workers.
Like zoo bound predators, muslims may appear to be completely passive — safe even. But when the time comes, they flip and follow mohammed the super-criminal. They do this with clearest conscience — feeling better killing for allah than anything they’ve done before.
That is why Pakistani doctors tried to blow up the ticket counter in Scotland.
You must put aside your personal emotions and face facts: muslims are culturally unstable in the land of the kafir and will flip to jihad spontaneously or upon dawa.
That GZM is even being pushed indicates that we are already at a tipping point.
Note the feckless Bloomberg, the pandering Liberal Jews in Southern Manhattan who sit back and tolerate this fitna, this calculated insult.
Muslims built a mosque upon the Western Wall. Note just how long that insult stands.
Wake up!
“If Petraeus thinks the Koran burning thing is a bad idea then as far as I’m concerned the discussion is over.”
Why? Petraeus is a general, not a politician or a social worker. I wouldn’t hire him to fix my leaky faucet either. I would let him change a flat on my car but not my bike.
Why are those that demonstrate competence in one field assumed to be competent in ALL other fields?
Petraeus is the best American General now living. That isn’t saying much, considering some of the Generals the US Army has fielded.
Petraues is following his masters orders, nothing more, nothing less. His Masters will not face the fact that Muslims need no provocation to murder non-Muslims. It is part and parcel of their religion.
They have been doing so with glee and abandon for almost 1,400 years, or more then 5 times longer then the USA has existed. A fair and balanced POV would be that it’s our turn now. They tried the USA almost 200 years ago. The US Navy took care of the problem by landing marines and capturing the Arab despot in charge. With a sword at his throat, he saw reason. That is the only way a Muslim will see reason.
History shows that Muslims only respect force. They seriously disrespect America because we have more force then anyone else and don’t use it very well or often. If you want peace, you need respect. Who negotiates with a field mouse? Or a cow?
So we have to earn their respect by killing a bunch of them. Then they will negotiate.
Understand that they ONLY negotiate for time. Time to rebuild and get back into the fight.
This will be a long war. 1400+ years and no signs of letting up.
Just a couple of quibbles, blert and Skip: I think it is a mistake to see the propensity for violence among Muslims as any more of a problem than an Islamic woman wearing a hijab because SHE HAS TO.
This is a religion that is predicated on tyranny above all else. I don’t think their opposition to us is about our use of force or lack thereof but about their opposition to freedom.
Christians MIGHT OR MAY BURN A KORAN_ International NEWS STORY AND HEADLINES labeling Americans/Christians as nutcases racists etc- smear entire NATION for actions of a few- Muslims threaten collective punishment- will kill our soldiers for actions of a small group less than 30 people- media does not blame the MUSLIMS for the threats, blame JONES even though terror and threats existed with or without him-
Koran LOVERS burn actual Christians (Egypt news) and kill JEWS to prevent peace process- NO NEWS – NO presidential excuses – no apologies from the supposed “other” MUSLIMS -Media tell us we are crazy to blame ISLAM, that it has nothing to do with it- just a few LONE CRAZIES?? Yes all 1.5 MILLION of the 1.5 billion total- small group of extremeists?? BULLCRAP
about the Koran burn
People tell me “oh this was never going to happen anyway” just a PR stunt
YET THE REALITY: I think no mosque was ever intended, it was only created to make drama and a lose/lose situation, a threat
and a recruitment tool- Muslims out to create what they think is reality- a biased hateful USA population-a projection of psychologically ill people – they can only see in us WHAT THEY REALLY ARE-
JIHAD in minds of moderates CAN be supported IF they feel (not reality but if they feel) ISLAM is under threat- what do they see as threat?- any non MUSLIM- any non conforming speech that might cause Muslim to question and perhaps leave their sick cult. In their world and minds if YOU refuse any of their ISLAMIC demands YOU are guilty of “insulting” ISLAM and so they now have ALLAH given permission to legally (under sharia) KILL YOU-
USA is NOT a theocracy- EU abandoned enforcementof blashemy and other relgious law long ago and our lives re the better for it- yet ISLAM thinks it can battle us by religious arguments- and we think we can change places like Afghanistan without them changing from ISLAM. What alternative do we offer? Christ? nope! burn those Bibles- so we offer some nebulous undefined secular “freedom” they are neither capable of understanidng or practicing.
the two cannot be reconciled- USA needs to make a choice NOW – the carrot’s not working and won’t — use the STICK and keep poking
PS- Thank you for adding the EDIT button for posts!!! sometimes my thought speed exceeds my typing skills…………
Greg…
You’re lost.
It’s their love of Sharia.
That’s what drives them.
If muslims attack other muslims over there — that’s completely normal.
OUR muslims are overwhelmingly Wahhabists — state supported by the King of Saudi Arabia.
That he picks up the tab for all of the wahhabist mosques is common knowledge in KSA. Other than the USA, most countries, especially most islamic lands, will not permit such mosques to be built. Wahhabism is hyper-radical at is core. Our muslims are not to be compared to European muslims. IIRC there are no wahhabist mosques in Europe.
It’s the King who is paying for the GZM. All other players are front men. The King ALWAYS uses front men for his patronage in kafir lands. This way his state sponsorship is reported as just a business investment by a wealthy Saudi.
THERE ARE NO INDEPENDENT WEALTHY MEN IN KSA. It’s an absolute monarchy. The King owns all of the mineral rights and the income therefrom. All other structures are FRONTS. The King is above the law. What ever he says is the law. He can flip-flop any time he wants.
The only counter-force to the King are the elite wahhabi imams. Of course, their ambit is islam – only.
All of this hyper-activity directly coincided with the mid-seventies oil extortion by OPEC. It will not stop until they lose that cash pig.
I’m confused, blert. I don’t see a conflict between what I said and the contention that it’s their love of Sharia that’s the problem. Not that I doubt that the KSA mechanisms you outline are central to their current strength, but it almost sounds like you’re saying there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim, one whose values might somehow coincide with ours.
I don’t see how that can be true given the tenets of the religion. When you strip it down to its core, it looks like nihilism to me, just like the leftism that’s trying to devour us in concert with it.
If there are so many “moderate Muslims” and a “tiny” radical faction why is it so difficult to rein in the tiny faction. Sorry, that does not pass the smell test. If Muslims want to be American citizens they MUST be able to abide by freedom of religion and freedom of expression hand-in-hand. The first step in engaging your enemy is to locate him. Hold the Koran burning, anyone who protests violently should be arrested. If they are not a US citizen, deport immediately to nation of origin. If a citizens, jail time and damages paid. US citizens have the right to “peacebly assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” No mention of a right to assault police, other citizens or damage property. Ignore this distinction at your own peril- and we have been for way too long.
I wish I was running things around here.
I would say: “You get to build the Cordoba Center one year after The Twin Towers have been rebuilt. And rebuilt to a facsimile of their previous splendor. Til then, go eff yourself.”
I was around when it was being built. I saw them destroyed. As long as we are still the dominant superpower, I don’t think they should define the conditions for building there.
Nothing new under the sun (My goodness, my parents were right about the world)…
Eggplants @ 142: “Unfortunately I’m not convinced that having Patraeus as Lord Protector is a “good thing”. It’ll just be a slightly better version of “bad”.”
Agreed that the Lord Protector route should not be anyone’s first choice; back in Cromwell’s day, it really did not work out so well for the English, and was fairly devastating for the Welsh, Irish & Scots.
On the other hand, there is sometimes a Cincinnatus or a George Washington who does what needs to be done and then goes back to his plow. Here today, I would rather take my chances with Lord Protector Petraeus than with unindicted traitor Barack Hussein Obama.
Will the Saudi police, now, stop confiscating and burning Bibles?
132. anton
130. RedState
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor – he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation – he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city – he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.”
– Marcus Tullius Cicero – 42BC
158. Charles Martel asks Will the Saudis stop confiscating and burning Bibles?
(And imprisoning their importers and owners)
Will the 0zero “administration?”
(As in Afghanistan and elsewhere!)
I keep hearing people on the left and the right claiming that Islam could never take over the USA. However, now I’m not so sure, since an obscure Pastor of a tiny congregation in Florida is threatening to burn a Koran as a publicity stunt has caused our President, Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and our commander of American forces in Afghanistan to all speak out publicly in favor of Americans surrendering their individual rights, freedoms, and liberty in submissive dhimmitude and abject submission to Islam.
161. ObamaYoMoma says he’s hearing people making claims that Islam could never take over America but that — now that a bloke in Florida’s stunt has incited 0zero and his secretaries of state and of defense and commander of American forces in Afghanistan all rabbit on in favor of Americans surrendering their individual rights, freedoms, and liberty in submissive dhimmitude and abject submission to Islam — he’s not so sure.
And ObamaYoMama — nor none of — us ain’t seen nothin’, yet!
Just all y’all wait until them thar “white supremacists” discover the word they-all like the better of them two is “supremacist!”
And they-all become the jihadi supremacists!
Oh, lawzee mercy –do NOT let them hillbilly stump-jumpers loose agin –hells bells, the LAST time it took fo yars to brang um to heel and they had ta be kilt off dang near to the last man as twere
September 11th, 2001 vs. September 11th, 2010
A day is a day, right? Twenty four hours, 1440 minutes, 86,400 seconds. They tend to just fly by, right?
Well, not always.
Nine years ago, those minutes, those seconds, those milliseconds were precious for those people working in New York’s World Trade Center and in Washington’s Pentagon. They meant life or death, too often death, after two American airliners slammed into the WTC Towers, another into the Pentagon, another into a barren field in Shanksville, PA.
Islamic terrorists managed to murder a total of 2,997 people that day–men, women, children, infants, Catholics, Jews. Muslims, people from 90 different nations, the old and the young, the healthy and the infirm, the good and the not so good.
What those 2,997 people had in common was that they were all innocent victims of the bitter fate dealt to them that day.
Nine years later, the temptation is to think that, “Well, 9/11/2001 was an awful, horrible day, a sickening experience, a deadly experience, but it’s over, done with, a nightmare that has passed.”
That thinking is the same thinking that led to the cataclysm that was 9/11. Nightmares re-occur.
In 2009, our president initiated the denigrating movement to observe the date as merely “a day of service,” as if 9/11 were tantamount to a day on which Americans should clean up parks and beaches, maybe visit the sick, maybe pick up trash on the streets, maybe distribute leaflets on behalf of Democrat candidates for public office. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1888)
Treating the Koran like it’s a piece of chicken really burns this girl up.
Rachel is flabbergasted that anyone would offend Islamic fundamentalist terrorists the world over by roasting their field manual, the Koran as if they’re at a Saturday afternoon barbecue. I particularly feel badly for President Barack Obama who admitted in a Sept. 7, 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulos how highly Barack Hussein values his Muslim faith. Naturally, Barack stands four-square with those who want to desecrate sacred ground at New York’s ground zero by plopping a Mosque a stone’s throw away, yet, at the same time, isn’t it strange that Barry takes unholy offense at anyone fire-mocking a religious pamphlet whose touchstone is peace, tolerance, understanding and an occasional beheading here and there. Obama makes the case that Muslims have a right to build a monument to cowards right on top of ground zero if they choose. Why, then, doesn’t Barack defend the average American’s right to use Muhammad’s main leaflet as a fiery reminder that what goes around often comes around. And sometimes very brightly.
Rachel, open your peepers –it’s becuz the ummah has no lousy Constitution, no horse-and-buggy document (as hero FDR called it) forcing it to accept anything at all. But we do, see, so we have to like the mosque at ground zero, but the ummah does not have to like the koran burning.
Just get rid of the damn document and you too can be free.
people need to understand. while this preacher may be an attention seeker, this is only the beginning. for 10 yrs now we have been told that we must be tolerant of thoese who attack us and kill us. the so called ‘moderate’ muslims are more worried about us insulting their stupid religion than anything. they have no problems with us dying, just so long as islam is not offended. people are pissed off. we can argure about the ‘logic’ of the burning and what good would have it done all day. the simple truth is this is NOT a logical argument. it is an emotional argumet purely based in human nature. we have shown tolerance for 10 yrs now and there is no tolerance from the other side at all nor is there any sign of progress. sooner or later something will happen, especially with the islamist mosque and the continued mantra of the govt to cower at the feet of islamic jihadist threats. we are going to mess around until something really bad happens(again) and at that point the whole moderate-extreamist islamist argument will be moot. they WILL all become targets and forced to choose btw america or their religion. The constitution and bill of rights is not a suicide pact. nor was it ever meant to be.
rachel peepers gets my goat ….
…. and my porterhouse steaks and a flagon of good Aussie red ned.
Might as well have a nice munch and a slurp, as we watch the incinerated Mein Korans off to Hell!
Way to go, rachel peepers, fellow Crusader!
Brian Richard Allen
Lost Angels – Califobambicated 90028
And the Very far Abroad
164. Berlet98
…. What those 2,997 people had in common was that they were all innocent victims of the bitter fate dealt to them that day ….
Bulls**t!
Fate, bitter or not, had absolutely nothing to do with the atrocities of September 11 2001.
A rabid pack of psychopathologically-hesperophobic sexually-degenerate gutless girly-boys, incited by a manifestation of evil disguised as a barbarically totalitarian ideology skulking behind the pretense of being a “religion” hiding behind a recidivist, treasonous, lying, looting, thieving, mass-murdering, co-serial-raping Mr and Missus Billy-Bubbah Blythe-protecting, Cli’ton “administration”/Jamie Gorelicker CIA-FBI-separating “wall” perpetrated and/or facilitated that day’s mass murders.
Nope — “Fate” was not a factor.
Since there is so much disagreement with each other on each side of each issue ( I’m refering to disagreements between Americans on each side) lets do this; cancel each other out by denying both the insensitive actions of the pastor from burning the quaran and the insensitivity of the American hating, terrorist supported, murdering, scumbag islamic radical A#$%#@%s from biulding a Mosque (HQ of terrorist planning seminars for American Haters- Just look at Europe and read the signs they carry about how Europe is the next 9/11, Islam will rule the world, men marrying little pre-teen girls,Etc. NO MOSQUE
The Apostle Paul said the he considered all things as dung in comparison to the riches of the knowledge of the Glory of Messiah Jesus .
Since Jesus is Messiah , all things opposed to this
ultimate truth of truths should be thought of as dung .
In the New Testament book of Acts, there was a certain town where some people practiced Sorcery , but the Lord being merciful allowed them to be reconciled to God through Messiah Jesus .
Upon reconciliation these former sorcerers burnt all their books of sorcery which had cost many thousand pieces of gold.
Who should be burning Korans ? It is they ( who were once Muslims ) who have been reconciled to God by his beloved Son Jesus the Messiah , who should be burning the filth .
What happened to the Jamie Glavon story about Muslim inbreeding? It was one of the stories in your Thursday email to me, yet the story was gone and remains gone. Was PM intimidated into removing it? Looks like it.
I’m disappointed the pastor isn’t burning the Koran. It is proof we have a double standard of freedom and we are cowed into submission, considering our own government would pay for a cross soaking in urine. Muslim’s rioting (always the men) seems like a good opportunity to get rid of a lot of extremists with a well placed Predator missile. Provocation, taunting and ridicule are part of warfare, too.
Concerned4Self…
There is NO equivalence.
You’re defrauding your intellect to post it so.
MSM characterization of the Reverend must ALWAYS be harsh: they are Leftists/atheists. In all my years I’ve NEVER heard the MSM fail to ‘harsh’ any high profile Reverend.
They weren’t crazy about Billy Graham.
Martin Luther King, Jr. was feted for his politics — not his sermons.
The fact that Zero is using a politicized FBI to thwart ANY MAN’S First Amendment rights, with multiple ‘visits’ is extremely alarming.
The Reverend needed their ‘advice’ like he needed a whole in the head.
The ad hominem argumentation should make you blush.
His beliefs and prior history are totally irrelevant.
What is relevant is that he is spot on target with regard to islamic double standards and its hypocrisy.
It is with revulsion that I witness lapsed, synaptically challenged, Jews flail themselves into dhimmitude and think themselves sophisticated and ‘tolerant.’
——
Without a doubt, that was the mindset of Jews jumping on the footpath to hell. Menachem Begin bitterly recounted how time and again his worst enemy was NAZI compliant Jewry. He and his fighters were always at risk of being betrayed by ‘good’ Jews who were going to ‘stop this madness’ by cooperating with the ‘authorities.’
The SD thought so highly of these bien pensants that they executed them the next day, right along with the rest of the neighborhood. (No reason to thank a fool.)
You can understand why Begin’s message was rejected flat: he told them that flying squads of executioners were racing around the Baltics, liquidating entire Jewish villages with a will!
The mental response to such an absurdity ran something like:”I’d have heard about it.”
Begin;”Honey, you just DID hear about it! — Your relatives are all dead by now. The enemy is in total control of the mail, the phones, the press and the radio. You can’t even use the train. Anyone using a major road is being detained and then shot. The enemy blocks all access to the truth.”
——–
The islamists must be having victory disease by now: EVERYTHING is going their way.
Muslim-marxist Resident: check.
Fitna in full swing: check.
Target busy attacking itself trying to placate imams: check.
Opinion leaders totally gulled and in the ‘bag’: check.
King’s role in single-payor wahhabist expansion hidden from view: check.
A deep bench of co-opted useful idiots ready to step-up in elections to come: check.
Academe pwned: check.
Suicide troops in place: check.
A stack of false-front operatives able to jihad upon the lambs: check.
Prison recruitment of killers in full swing: check.
Mapping of critical nodes of American Power: well along.
American realization of wahhabi attack gambits: a complete zero.
Infiltration of US Army with wahhabi imams and ‘technical’ advisors: well along.
The arrogance of Americans – to not recognize that their politicians are mentally lazy, vainglorious and easily bought with foreign monies — allows the King to perform a reverse LBO on the American elite. With time, and before the oil-pig dries up, the King will have established wahhabi sharia spot-wise all over America.
“Enslaved at last, enslaved at last!”
Mary…
In the Magic Kingdom birth defects due to inbreeding are at staggering levels.
Reports are that almost 30% of new births have notable defects! When one factors the fresh genes brought into the fold by jihadi-sexquest from naive UCLA co-eds and such, one must conclude that Saudis are birthing a crippled generation.
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It would be MOST wise to get the word out to all of the pretty co-eds out there as to what it means to marry muslim; and the consequences for all wives once they land in the Magic Kingdom.
Some first person testimonies would be most apt.
I’ve been pushing the envelope of what people are allowed to talk about on my blog, and in comments elsewhere, for quite a long time. It’s an uphill battle, but somebody has to do it. I don’t give a rat’s patootie what anybody thinks of me or what anybody would like to do to me. I’m not so young any more, I have never enjoyed a comfortable life, and I care not one whit about the consequences of calling ‘em as I sees ‘em.
Whatever anybody might think of Rev. Terry Jones himself, the fact is that his threats to burn the Koran have served to show more of the American and worldwide public just how evil a system Islam is.
The Koran tells people duped by its lies to kill Christians, Jews, and others who refuse to acquiesce to the evil system of Islam. The Koran deserves to be burned.
Islam is an inherently, utterly and irredemably evil political ideology that never has been, and never can be, legitimate, and is undeserving of existence.
We are presently cursed with a Quisling in the White House. He must be removed from office and this must never be allowed to happen again. All of those who contributed money, election chicanery, union muscle, and whatever else to put him into power must be held accountable.
Not sure if this has been brought up anywhere in this comments section.
I would like to see the koran read out loud, those verses that refer to Christians and Jews as “apes and pigs.” There are many verses in the koran that the American public, as well as the rest of the world, need to learn about. For instance, most Americans don’t know that muhammed married a 6 year-old and then consummated the married when the child was 9 years old. Her name was Aishia. Once read someone should rip those pages right out of the koran. Just look at any 9 year old and tell me that ain’t SICK.
Think of the debate: Should verses in the islamic holy book, which is against the law in America and other civilized nations, be expunged? Isn’t Pedeophia a crime in almost every nation except muslim nations?
What about the verse in the SURA, I think it’s 4:34 (?) which gives a muslim husband the right to beat a disobidient wife? Any Women’s Rights Advocates what to address that issue? That one can be ripped out of the koran also.
I don’t particularly like being called an infidel when the fact of the matter is that muslims are the real infidels, not Christians.
Why do they hate us and want to take over the world you might ask. Read the koran and the haddiths. The answer is in those books. Get a transcript of OBL and his #2 and read the specific verses he quotes to justify the murders of innocent people. It’s all there in that UNholy koran. Islamic doctines need to be brought out into the open and addressed. The Terry Jones media fiasco should not be wasted. It’s a golden opportunity to confront muslims and maybe, just maybe the moderates will be shamed into addressing these issues.
One theory I do hold on too that may explain why they hate us so much. Back in the early 1980′s a question posed by someone in an audience asked the Ayatollah Khomeini why, if islam is so superior, why is the West so much more advanced? (Like why we invented electricity, cars, computers, etc. etc.). His response was “they had help from SATAN.” So America is the Great Satan and Israel is the little Satan. Go figure.
Christianity and Judeism had a Renaissance and our knowledge went skyward exponentially ,while they remained in the DARK AGES. Actually, islam is not advancing at all. They are still in the DARK AGES. Yes they have embraced cellphones, PC’s, cars, etc., yet they feel inferior to the west and believe that the only way to achieve a sense of worth and value is to conquer the world. BRING IT ON BABY.
This cowboy will never see his country in ruins……….for I will have died defending her.
#5 Peter Boston
I love it too!
{Huge Grin}.