Newswatch: Energy says the EPA’s claimed authority to regulate ‘greenhouse’ gases has sparked an unprecedented feud with the State of Texas which has responded in language that is just short of grapeshot and gunpowder. At the center of the debate is the administration’s fallback plan to put in place parts of cap and trade via regulation. That was always going to be a hard sell.
Even lawyers in favor of regulating greenhouse gas emissions agree the Clean Air Act isn’t the best tool for the job. But the push by the EPA to do so starting last year was seen by many as the insurance policy to back up efforts to create a carbon cap and trade system through Congress. That hasn’t worked out so well, so EPA’s effort moves forward.
And Texas ain’t buying. In a letter to the EPA the Texas Attorney General and the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality refused to “pledge their fealty to the Environmental Protection Agency”. Yes folks, you read the language right. And there’s more.
On behalf of the State of Texas, we write to inform you that Texas has neither the authority nor the intention of interpreting, ignoring, or amending its laws in order to compel the permitting of greenhouse gas emissions. … You have declared that EPA’s decision … renders such gases immediately “subject to regulation” … simultaneously, however, you recognize that permitting greenhouse gases under the Act is “absurd” …
In order to avoid the absurd results of EPA’s own creation, you have developed a “tailoring rule” in which you have substituted your own judgement for Congress’s … the State of Texas does not believe that EPA’s “suggested” approach comports with the rule of law. The United States and Texas Constitutions, United States and Texas statutes, and EPA and TCEQ rules all preclude …
We start with the constitutional difficulties … each of these objections to EPA’s demand for a loyalty oath from the State of Texas would suffice to justify our refusal to make one. Indeed, it is an affront …”
These are the kinds of words that seem to come right out of a nearly forgotten past. Newswatch: Energy says one veteran Texas environmental attorney says he has never seen anything like it. Andy Wilson, who works for a nonprofit on global warming issues says the letter “childishly and churlishly” blames the federal government instead of recognizing that as unprecedented as the EPA’s claims might be, it’s only for the children.
“This is almost entirely political and not very substantive,” he said.
“This is about protecting the climate. This is about clean air for Texas families and children, and protecting our natural resources in a responsible manner. We need less crass political partisanship and more hard work to solve the very real problems we face.”
The accustomed deference to the environmental ‘high ground’ is notably absent. The New York Times takes a more stern tone in its story. Robin Bravender writes: “Texas Defies EPA on Regulation of Greenhouse Gases”. The NYT adds says that if Texas resists, the EPA plans to get enough authority from the White House to “bring them them into compliance”. They’re coming back with a posse.
For states that can’t or won’t immediately comply with the rules, EPA is planning to use its authority to bring them into compliance with federal rules. The agency sent a proposal to the White House regulatory review office last month that seeks to guarantee authority for federal implementation plans, or FIPs, that could replace state programs if the states do not comply with federal requirements by the deadlines.
It has been an interesting week in the political dynamic between the New Dealers and the States. From Missouri the message on health care is, Show Me. And the Eyes of Texas Are Upon You, EPA. Having ignored the importance of Missouri they can’t ignore Texas. It will be interesting to see whether the administration takes a tougher line on Texas than they did with Wikileaks.
Finally! States are starting to say enough. Thanks for your work on this blog. Your work is greatly appreciated.
A few years ago I thought the idea of a state or states seceding from the union was crazy talk. Now, and even more so after this stuff with Missouri and Texas, I am not so sure it is at all crazy. Just more time may be all we need to see it. Interesting times, indeed!
Not just ‘No’ but ‘HELL, No’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ72nSZZLDE
“The Last Ditch Stand of the Federalists” playing soon at a battlefield near you!
I’m betting on Texas, having counted the guns at the EPA. Texas has Ft. Hood, home of the 1st Cavalry Division and the 4th Infantry Division.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/fort-hood.htm
{snipped}
“In its arsenal, the post has an array of modernized warfighting equipment. There are more than 500 tanks, including the most modern — the M1A2 System Enhancement Program Abrams tank — almost 500 Bradley fighting vehicles, about 1,600 other tracked vehicles, almost 10,000 wheeled vehicles and close to 200 fixed and rotary-winged aircraft including the high-tech AH-64D Longbow Apache.”
The EPA, on the other hand, has Several hundred overweight bureaucrats and dozens of aging hippies. Sounds like a real battle brewing there. NOT…
Then there is the Texas National guard.
Remember the Alamo!
Just as a reminder, Texas NEVER ratified the articles of incorporation. Technically ( Legally ), Texas IS NOT part of the United States. The paperwork was never finished. That didn’t matter to Audie Murphy. It won’t matter to the thousands of other hard scrabble raised Texans just like him.
In the end the federal government acquires it’s powers from the States and it’s Citizens. That acquired power can be withdrawn. It will be withdrawn when abused. That is the message from Arizona, Missouri and now Texas. I just hope that it won’t require the ‘Sons of Audie’ mounting up and doing thunder runs through Washington D.C. On the other hand, letting slip the dogs of war ( generation kill?) on the bureaucracy might be a historic opportunity. You can’t fire them. So a chain gun might be the only way to reduce their numbers.
Andy Wilson might as well be Andy Dick, he’s such a putz.
His worldview is the embodyment of the contempt that modern elites have for the rule of law. He’s so deep into it that he thinks Texas is the one being “lawless.”
My money says that a lot of Texans would tell the EPA:
“Pard, the last time the government “brought us into compliance,” it took a civil war to do it. I think you’re all hat and no cattle.”
Keep an eye out for Lebanon. Not Lebanon, Ohio but Lebanon, Lebanon.
The effects of incompetence build up. With the Left in power and determined to make the most of their chance they’ve tied down the circuit breakers. All at once. Health Care, Cap and Trade, Disarmament, Withdrawal from the Middle East, Cancellation of Wasteful Space Programs, Cancellation of the War on Terror, Open Borders, Gays in the Military, the Stimulus. They’re like a kid in a candy store whose exploits are silently abetted by people like Journolist. Pig away, comrades. Because nothing bad was ever going to happen, right?
“The terrible ‘ifs’ accumulate”. If the Administration had diddled with only a bit at a time the entire system could regain it’s balance before it was tripped up again by the Hope and Change boys in Washington. But no. They removed every support all at once and watched in astonishment — an astonishment that was itself astonishing — while jobs sank, the economy tanks, North Korea flexed its muscles and while Julian Assange made a monkey of them all. They watched their political support vanish, watched respect evaporate and still they doubled down.
And they’re doubling down again on the weakest of possible grounds and on the most irrelevant of issues. Friggin cap ‘n trade. What distinguishes this administration is the sheer inability to pick and choose priorities. They are policy Flatlanders. There is no terrain in their moral universe but the towering mountain of ego.
It will be interesting to see whether the administration takes a tougher line on Texas than they did with Wikileaks.
Excellent line. Of course, the administration will take a tougher line on TX. Oilbama always takes a tougher line towards domestic opponents than he does towards foreign enemies, perhaps because foreign enemies can’t vote him out of office.
I thought that the passage of Obamacare, financial reform and trillion-$ stimulus was supposed to be enough for now and that the rest of the agenda, including immigration and cap and trade, would have to wait til Obama’s re-election in 2012. Hah. Why would anybody believe that? Why would anybody believe we’d actually get a breather from one relentless assault after another?
The apparent decrease in the ocean’s phytoplankton is worrisome. It occurs to me that the whole global warming debate maybe focused on the wrong issues. Increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide could be due to loss of phytoplankton, refer to:
http://www.fisherycrisis.com/plankton.html
Socialists want to wreck the world’s economy because they’ve convinced themselves that this is necessary to stop global warming (coincidentally this also advances their original political agendas). Climategate has shown that dishonest and/or incompetent scientists will falsify data about global warming in order to secure additional funding. It’s possible that even if the socialists were allowed to wreck the world’s economy in a mistaken attempt to curtail global warming that carbon dioxide would continue to increase due to a fouled up oceanic ecosystem.
There is data out there indicating that much of the ocean has been over-fished and/or damaged by pollution from agricultural run-off, e.g. nitrates from chemical fertilizers. I find it easier to believe that damage to the ocean’s ecology is the real reason why the atmosphere’s carbon dioxide levels have been increasing.
What tougher line is there to take? The only tougher line that exists is for the Federal Government to declare war on Texas in order to enforce their illegal action, and that would be a dreadfully unsuccessful mistake by the Fed.
Water vapor, like carbon dioxide, absorbs infrared (heat) radiation. By the same logic, water vapor is a very dangerous greenhouse gas. And, there is much more water vapor in the air than CO2, so it is even more dangerous.
After you buy your mandated no-coverage health insurance, each one of you must put in place a plan to stop your water vapor emissions when you breathe, as well as your personal carbon dioxide emissions. This can easily be accomplished by 50 pound portable masks with replaceable lime cannisters that will last several hours. Making these masks and cannisters will create Green Jobs, which will solve the unemployment problem.
Otherwise, the New York Times and the EPA will get enough authority from the White House to “bring you into compliance”.
Texas: “No.”
One of my Professors used to use the phrase ” It is intuitively obvious to the untrained observer…” and then skip 30 or 40 lines in the derivation of some function. But the idiom has its uses and is very applicable to this AGW scam. There is no rational basis for assuming any level of accuracy for temperature data that predates the 18th century. No level of accuracy at all. (+/-20 Degrees? Sounds fine) Without instruments, there can only be assumptions. And assumptions make an ass out of u and me. There is not even a real figure for the “current average world temperature.” Not enough data points. Soooo they’re going to get the odd isolated data point from the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 12th and a bunch of other centuries from a series of unrelated locations, data points based on indirect effects of temperature (among other things,btw) build a model (that doesnt act like what data is known) bury anomalies and BS BS BS BS – I could go on but why…….
I couldnt sell this crap in a middle school science fair in Boston.
I will pay attention to this kaka when they can answer the following question:
What was the temperature range at the location of Dodge City, Kansas at the Winter Solstice in the year 1066? What is the error range and confidence level? (Ill take High/Low for the day) How do you know? Will it be different this winter? Why? Account for all potential causes. Ascribe probabilities and weights to them. Show your work. Show the sources of your data. Open book.
Most people with any sense of physics and statistics know that this AGW thing was nothing but rent seeking behavior. The only reason the Progressives picked it up was that it has the potential to intrude the ruling class’ power into every facet of our lives. I tried to buy a 250W incandescent flood for my church the other day. Home Depot don’t got them no more — they’re illegal.
Dear EPA/Washington
Blow Me!
Love . . . Texas
People have finally gotten pushed too far by the Federal Government’s arrogance and massive bureaucracy. Petty bureaucrats have dictated stupidity for far to long. People and States are starting to push back on a lot of issues, immigration, education, the EPA and tax rates and policy. I hope this is just the start, there are a lot of other very expensive and stupid programs and policies. Foreign Aid and the percentage of the UN budget are two examples. Living in Texas I will vote for any State candidate that wants to reduce spending and social programs and maybe kick the Federal Government back into it’s place.
Don’t Mess with TEXAS!!
Wretchard @ 8: “There is no terrain in their moral universe but the towering mountain of ego.” Nice turn of phrase, particularly because behind the prose I sense an extraordinary heat. After you’ve kept your (apparent) cool through so many other follies, have these clowns finally stirred you to wrathfulness? Surely the Latter Days are upon us.
jaybird @ 13 said:
“Water vapor, like carbon dioxide, absorbs infrared (heat) radiation. By the same logic, water vapor is a very dangerous greenhouse gas.”
It’s neat how water vapor works in terms of temperature regulation. Transparent water vapor is a potent greenhouse gas and increases atmospheric temperature. As temperature increases, more water vapor is added to the atmosphere due to evaporation from the ocean. This would lead to thermal runaway if it weren’t for cloud formation. Clouds block solar radiation which in turn causes the atmosphere to cool. The cooling atmosphere causes the water vapor to condense out of the atmosphere as rain and snow.
The system is self regulating.
Of course it must be self regulating for life to have existed on our planet for 3 1/2 billion years.
Now add to the mix, cosmic radiation. Cosmic radiation causes “cloud nucleation”, i.e. the cosmic ray causes tiny water droplets to condense behind it. More cosmic rays, causes more clouds that reduces the world’s temperature. An increase in cosmic radiation is equivalent to turning down the world’s thermostat.
Where do cosmic rays come?
Nobody really knows. It is believed that cosmic rays come from supenova, black holes, the galactic core, etc. It is also believed that cosmic radiation intensity outside of the Solar System is fairly uniform. However the intensity of cosmic radiation striking the Earth’s atmosphere is strongly a function of Solar activity. Cosmic rays do NOT come from the Sun (the Sun is not energetic enough to produce cosmic rays). However the charged particles emitted by the Sun have a shielding effect against cosmic rays. If the Sun is active (lots of sun spots) then more charged particles are emitted into the Solar System and the flux of cosmic rays seen by the Earth’s atmosphere is reduced. Fewer cosmic rays mean fewer clouds which means a higher surface temperature. For the last few years the Sun has been extremely quiet (almost no sun spots) and consequently the cosmic radiation flux in the upper atmosphere has significantly increased along with total cloud coverage. Key point: most of the charged particles from the Sun are in the Solar System’s orbital plane, i.e. the plane of the ecliptic. Cosmic radiation coming in normal to the Earth’s orbital plane is less effected by variation in solar activity. Therefore cooling due cosmic radiation would be more significant in the Earth’s equatorial regions than in the ice caps. The whole process is much more complicated than the so-called experts and socialists would have you believe.
Now get back to my earlier point concerning phytoplankton. You can reset the Earth’s thermostat by changing the carbon dioxide / oxygen exchange rate through damage to the ocean’s ecosystem. Killing off phytoplankton also changes the color of the ocean’s surface and its ability to reflect back heat, i.e. the Earth’s color becomes more blue than green. That process is analogous to cosmic radiation changing the amount of cloud cover reflecting back sunlight.
A loyalty oath to a government agency. Are they for real? When did I shift into Bizzaro World ? I feel like I woke up and everything is Bass Ackwards.
Are loyalty oaths to the dear leader next?……..
Don’t mess with Texas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlFD0Zyl_f0
re: wretchard @ 8 – After all, what could possibly go wrong? (facepalm)
I hate interesting times.
The Texas Attorney General is under the strange and amusing impression that “the Constitution” is a published legal document which has a plain and objective meaning and is binding on the federal government. I guess he missed the class in law school where they explain to the students, a few of whom will become our future rulers, that “the Constitution” is a “living” document the meaning of which changes over time and adapts to society’s current needs.
The Constitution is a straightforward written document, “the Constitution” or “constitutional law” as it is more formally refered to, is the reasoning the elites have built up over the last 200 years- starting in I believe 1805 with John Marshall- that the Constitution means whatever they want it to mean and they can do whatever they want to do.
There is nothing to worry about- nothing to see here folks, move along- as a federal judge will quickly rule that the EPA can do whatever the hell it wants and those who disagree are cordially invited to shut the hell up. (Being an Ivy League graduate, most likely, he will put it much longer and much more artfully than that, but that’s what he will mean.) And everybody will go along, some with plenty of grumbling, but they’ll go along, because everybody agrees “the Constitution” rules.
We saw the exact same thing today with Prop 8 in California and it’s a sure bet the US will have mandatory gay marriage in a year or two, depending on the Supreme Court’s calendar.
#8 Wretchard
makes one appreciate Slick Willy.he started out with the same foolishness, but when it blew up in his face, he took the lesson and moved on.these ideologues don’t seem to be able to grasp reality.
that they keep doubling down is predictable , what’s amazing is that such educated , superior people can’t see the board.bet none of them play chess.unless of course they aren’t all that superior and are a bunch of egotistical boobs who believe their own propaganda.
I used to believe that O wanted the democrats to lose the house so that he could position himself a la Clinton 96, but the Dems seems to be digging such a hole that the blame game won’t matter.All the spin, politics, PR,media etc won’t cancel out reality.
History’s judgement will be brutal.
Zephyron, #2: A few years ago I thought the idea of a state or states seceding from the union was crazy talk. Now, and even more so after this stuff with Missouri and Texas, I am not so sure it is at all crazy. Just more time may be all we need to see it. Interesting times, indeed!
For most states, among them Missouri and Arizona, the trouble with secession is that these states are landlocked and would be completely surrounded by hostile territory, meaning they’d have to rely on the good graces of the very nation they just seceded from (and in AZ’s case, Mexico as well!) to get any goods or people (that they want to come, at any rate) in or out. This makes secession an even riskier game to play than it is in any event. After all, it’s one thing to be reconquered and forced back into the Union you just seceded from; quite another to have to crawl back to that same Union with hat in hand just to be able to do any significant above-board commerce with the outside world again.
The possibility of Texas seceding changes that game completely. Now any state that borders Texas that is inclined to secede may do so without committing economic suicide even if it is landlocked, because Texas, of course, is not. And once they secede, any states that border them can also follow suit. If Oklahoma decides it’s had enough, Missouri is free to do so as well. Likewise Arizona, should New Mexico follow Texas’s lead. Then the only question becomes what the internal border looks like by the time the dominoes stop falling. You think BP wouldn’t mind seeing all the other Gulf states follow Texas’s lead?
re: 20. Herkeng
A loyalty oath to a government agency. Are they for real?
++++++++
This has been going on for a while, particularly with Dept of Education, EPA, and others. For cases where the feds lack direct authority, or where the feds don’t want to be seen as directly responsible, they reach “understandings” with their state counterparts. In exchange for the feds continuing to hand them grant money, the states promise to enact rules that the feds tell them to enact.
18. oMan
He used the word “friggin” too.
“Are loyalty oaths to the dear leader next?……..”
What do you think Michelle’s demand that everyone sign his birthday card is? What do you suppose the White House plans to do with all those signatures if anyone is still daft enough to actually log on and sign the damned thing?
Joshua @ 25:
“The possibility of Texas seceding changes that game completely. Now any state that borders Texas that is inclined to secede may do so without committing economic suicide even if it is landlocked, because Texas, of course, is not.”
The more likely trigger mechanism for break up of the US is a failed constitutional convention. Eventually the Liberal Elite will overreach itself and the states will call for a constitutional convention. Later during the constitutional convention someone will point out that the US government is in debt for an amount that can not possibly be repaid but that debt goes away if the United States ceases to exist. After reaching that conclusion, the convention is ended with nothing voted out, the states go their separate ways and start printing their own money.
I’m a native Texan–I love it! Did anybody notice where the EPA proposed to regulate farm dust?
What is with these people?!!
28. Nanhcee
I was leaning more towards the oath the German Officers’ Corps and every individual in the German Army took. After 1934 and the death of Hindenburg, They (the german military) swore a personal oath of allegiance to Hitler.
As for birthday card to the Leader & Madame Leaders demand of people signing, well they, the elite’s, can sign away. The current crop of Donks have shattered any illusion of integrity they had remaining. Maybe they can have the Leader of the House tell us to eat cake.
Note how the Feds expect Texas to follow regulatory policy as if it were handed down on stone tablets, yet they have a major problem with Arizona trying to assist in the enforcement of laws passed by the elected representatives of both the state of Arizona and the various United States.
A curious set of circumstances, to be sure. Rule of law? What rule of law?
Texas won’t quit the Union…..however there is a chance that they’ll join other Red States and kick Washington DC out of the Union.
Meanwhile back at the ranch I suspect that Team Perry has lined up a number of assaults to keep the issue in the various media till Nov.2010 with a follow up for February 2011.
I am SO loving my State officials right now – yee-haw!!!!!
Time for states to start banding together.
We people of Georgia have got your back, Texas!
Ignore our politicians, they are mostly useless, that idiot Barnes (remember the guy that canned the GA flag!!!) is even running!
I can’t wait to vote against him AGAIN, a rare treat to remind him what we think of him, AGAIN!!! The last time Sonny handed him his butt!
You will get crushed AGAIN, you traitor to the people of Georgia!
A state’s real power is in it’s citizens, and we got lots of good ol’ boy hard working conservatives with plenty of trigger time!
And what are the commie feds going to do, a roadblock embargo on our allies like Texas, or Arizona? Haven’t they ever heard of 4WD?
Storm’s comin’, OUR STORM!
#33. toadold
That’s a very interesting notion–we’re not seceding from the US, we are just revoking your membership.
Interesting indeed.
Eggplant 19 Maybe if we live in a cloudy State, the EPA will let us breathe out water vapor? But that doesn’t raise any tax revenue, or generate any bribes or “campaign contributions” for regulation favors. So, to save the world, algore recommends a “cap and trade” water vapor treaty through the UN, where anyone who wants to breathe can purchase rights on his exchange, to breathe out water vapor. Just like the carbon rights bought for billion$ by European morons, the excess breathing rights would be sold by Russians who promise (with formal certificates of authentication signed by top UN Officials!!) that they are no longer breathing themselves. Like Wretchard, I don’t think the socialists who flock to organizational power, will try to recalibrate in the face of opposition. Individualists who have interests other than organizing to steal and to control others, are increasingly being forced to recognize that the system is now rigged. But where are the Washingtons, Jeffersons, Adams’ and Hamiltons they would vote for if given a chance? Greed, corruption, scheming, lying and personal favor now rule – The Texas falcon will not listen to the untrustworthy EPA falconer – the center must unify to hold against the crooked periphery.
I check out the sunspot activity every week or so at the NASA site http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/ The solar wind info is there as well.
I think I remember a scheme a while back to increase ocean phytoplankton fertility by applying iron salts, irrespective of ultimate phosphate limitation. (Maybe it was a steel industry scheme to get rid od waste pickle liquor?) You are correct that overfishing and treatment of the oceans as a sewer is at a non-negligible scale. There are too many people.
For the kids’ and grandkids’ sakes, a case can be made for secession.
As for the older folk? Lives, pensions, medicare and sacred honor would need to be evaluated.
Joshua @ 25
Under such circumstances, Louisiana is also likely to exit. And a bunch of other midwestern states will be at least sympathetic. I think of SoDak as the northernmost district of Texas.And if trouble starts, I will follow orders to “mount up and ride to the sound of the cannonfire”. I have bloodbrother friends in each of the states from Louisiana westward, and I once soldiered under the flag of the Texas National Guard. If Texas leaves, she will receive substantial volunteer help again.
The Alamo is not a place, it is a state of mind. Sound the Deguello!
36. Tcobb @ 36 & toadold @ 33,
Yes. That’s the ticket! And while we’re at it, let’s review the status of a few other states, primarily in New England and Hawaii. Some of them have been the main source of troubles for close to two centuries.
In Texas it is understood
When needed guys like John Bell Hood
And Sam and Davy come to join the fight
The Texicans don’t take no sass
The good old boys will rise en masse
They’ll grab their guns and dammit set things right
The EPA can send out rules
In crayon wrote by lefty fools
And order folks to do things they want done
There’s places that will knuckle down
And bow before Obama’s crown
But not in Texas cry each native son
Sure thing EPA. We can do that. But first, you will blow me.
Hey Mel, when the EPA whore is done, send her to me. She can release my first AND second chakra.
Once a state like Texas makes a stand, we can expect two developments, probably both rather than one or the other:
1) Other states will be emboldened, and do likewise.
2) Even though their view of reality is dominated by a close-up of their own lower bowel, Federal officials will sense that they have a brief interval to respond in any way that can maintain control.
Anyone who wonders what will be their most likely mode of response needs to remember three telling incidents:
Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the midnight abduction of Cuban refugee Elian Gonzales by Black-helmeted INS agents armed with submachine guns.
On the good side of the ledger, even the sprawling Federal government does not have the ability to impose an effective blockade on any but the smallest New England states, and nor can it depend on the loyalty and cooperation of all its own personnel in any such action.
There is absolutely no doubt that O and his backers are willing to use deadly force to impose their will. Look at the deaths of potentially damaging political witnesses in Chicagoland, and the enthusiastic embrace of the Predator drones firing missiles into the windows of suspected Al Qaeda Jihadis.
Consider also the famous assertion of O’s intimate friend – and admitted unregenerate terrorist – William Ayers that it will probably be necessary to put some 25 million Americans into concentration camps in order to accomplish his desired degree of control.
Don’t be lulled into dreamy over-confidence by Obama’s repeated craven candy-assity in foreign affairs. His obsequious kow-towing to the adversaries of the West is very much a manifestation of his approval of them and his contempt for the West that suckled him.
Toward his domestic adversaries, he has already shown his willingness to destroy their lives using any and all powers available to him, legitimate or no.
It is reasonable to expect the use of midnight thug visits (say, by deputized committees from S E I U or A C O R N) to the apartments of selected opponents. One has already shown it is happy to commit felony assault against “TeaBaggers” in behalf of glorious leader. (The other has shown it’ll do felonies just for the hell of it.) When that’s not enough, things will heat up, probably with great rapidity.
Arrests of people resisting abusive decrees by over-reaching Federal Agencies — rather than hashing the issues out in the courts or elections — should be understood as the Usurpers’ decision to abandon any pretense of rational process and just go for the jugular. Such arrests would likely follow the issue of some dictatorial court injunction or even a Presidential Executive Order to the general population, or to the officials of a refuse-nik state agency: “Do as we say or it’s your ass!” Once things reach that point, the question of Posse Comitatus is likely to come into play. If the FBI, BATF, or other such Federal law enforcement agency starts arresting citizens in response to a blatant POLITICAL directive rather than to long-standing laws, there will be hell to pay.
These scenarios popped into my mind as a whole, but it’s taken me over an hour to put’em into words. If that’s true for a third-rate mind like mine, I spect other folks have already delved deeper than I.
Hosea 8:1-14
#25 Joshua “Then the only question becomes what the internal border looks like by the time the dominoes stop falling.”
That’s an easy one. Google “Jesusland”. Mr. Scudder will love it.
Wretchard your command of the written word just blows me away!
“There is no terrain in their moral universe but the towering mountain of ego.”
’tis a thing of beauty, it is.
33. toadold;
I suggested that a month or so back. all the states that are net contributors (or even counties…there is a lot of New York State that is worthwhile, as opposed to NYC) should expell from the Union the tumor(s) that is Blueland, the coastal urban cesspits that drain our treasury and contribute little or nothing.
Oddly almost every one of them is run by a Dem or a RINO. Let them live in their Socialist Nirvanas and we can get back to doing productive work.
Just don’t come begging in the Fall, this ant has had enough and won’t be sharing.
Colonel Travis just marked a line in the sand. I think The Nations (my state of Oklahoma) will join the Texicans this time. Louisiana is probably ripe for revolt as well.
W says, “And they’re doubling down again on the weakest of possible grounds and on the most irrelevant of issues. Friggin cap ‘n trade. What distinguishes this administration is the sheer inability to pick and choose priorities.”
I must disagree. They have chosen their one and only priority. That priority is the complete and absolute dominance of the Federal government and more specifically, the Executive Branch. YOU WILL SUBMIT! Does that demand sound similar to the literal meaning of the name of one of the world’s “great” religions? Gee, I wonder.
This is the first shot in what will likely turn out to be a protracted legal battle between the states and the EPA. I believe Texas has the better of the legal argument. The AG is saying that there are certain legal rules and procedures that must be followed, and the EPA is not following those rules and procedures. It’s not the case where the state is denying the authority of the EPA to regulate carbon dioxide emissions (an authority granted by the Supreme Court, even if I disagree with their reasoning). Instead the state is challenging them on two grounds. First, that they have no legal authority to change the legal limits of emissions prescribed by statute. Second, that the EPA is not in compliance with the procedure that must be followed for the states to implement those regulations locally.
Summary of the EPA demand
1. We have the authority granted by the Supreme Court’s interpretation of the law to declare carbon dioxide is a pollutant.
2. Under the law passed and amended by Congress we have the authority to require states to establish a process to evaluate and issue permits for sources of pollution. Something we’ve been doing for 30 years.
3. According to the law, we are required to regulate any source of pollution that produces more than 250 tons per year. We think that is “absurd” because it would require regulating CO2 emissions from too many sources. We just want to regulate the really big sources.
4. We think it’s in our regulatory discretion to avoid rule making that produces an “absurd” result.
5. We think this is an emergency, because creating a crisis is good business for the government.
Summary of Texas’ Response
1. Welcome to the world of unintended consequences!
2. Just because you think the results of something are “absurd” doesn’t mean you can make the law up as you go along.
3. The law, as written by Congress is very specific. If you regulate something as a pollutant, you have to regulate any source that emits over 250 tons per year. Words have meaning.
4. Our state laws regarding permitting are quite specific. Any changes to rule making or permitting have to be published, subject to public review and then planned for implementation. This process can take many months and up to a year and a half. Since our laws were written to comply with federal law and regulation, we’re kind of wondering how you can demand we fast track any significant change which would violate our own laws. You see, a failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on our part.
5. See you in court!
It seems the beltway class is ignorant of how fast they’re pushing us toward a second revolution. Nobody welcomes one, but they just won’t leave us alone. I fear a lame duck session may be the spark to push us citizens beyond the point of no return so I hope they get their heads on quickly.
Stray fact: The Texas electrical grid connects with the rest of the US at only two points. I never thought that mattered much one way or the until recently.
However I suspect that worries someone in the regime because a while back I happened to see a glowing happy story about a plan to build a third tie-in outside of Texas (in Colorado AFAIK) to handle all the fabulous green energy windmills are about to bestow upon us. I don’t recall any mention of just why this new interconnect needed to be outside of Texas but I’m sure there is a really good reason. Yep.
Perhaps I’m just being paranoid. If Texas cut itself off from the US electrical grid I bet both would get by swimmingly.
More interesting are the refineries in Texas. What happens to the price of gasoline and the supply if they cease to supply the rest of the US? Does the federal government seize them? If so what are the political consequences in Texas and elsewhere? Can the feds keep them operating if the Texans that run them don’t want them to?
If not how long can they be down before the rest of the United States grinds to halt?
Again, maybe I’m just paranoid and/or crazy. But if Texas does decide to depart the union I think the regime will have to leave the realm of the Threatening Letter and move on to actual raw coercion or lose everything everywhere.
This won’t be a happy time for anyone.
Xenady posting @52 said: “…leave the realm of the Threatening Letter and move on to actual raw coercion or lose everything everywhere.”
I call that a distinction without a difference.
The Federal government – as well as the State & local gummints – have at all times backing any “threatening letter” the ultimate power of arrest, criminal prosecution, confiscation of property, imprisonment, and whatever physical violence is necessary to subdue and overcome resistance, including lethal force.
If that’s not coercion, nothing is.
We citizens GRANT this power to the government, only so long as the government uses it judiciously rather than arbitrarily or in clear violation of prescribed limits.
The only question then is how much violation and abuse of the consent of the governed will be tolerated.
#11 Eggplant – check the following article for facts about plankton, the next scam.
> http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/31/walking-the-plank-ton/ <
53. Mad Fiddler
“The only question then is how much violation and abuse of the consent of the governed will be tolerated.”
I am afraid that we are all too soon going to find out exactly how much abuse will be tolerated.
I don’t think kicking Texas into a revolt (of any sort) is a particularly good idea; sort of like kicking a bear awake in February, it can be done, but why on God’s green earth would you want to?
This is the sort of thing that could lead to a revolt of the center, after the dominoes are done falling the Commies in DC would find themselves in charge of San Fran, LA, Chicago and the Boston-DC axis but little else. Are they really that foolish/clueless/feckless/arrogant?
Frankly, I would rather live in boring times.
Mad Fiddler @53- True but my point was that the ominous Threatening Letter from the regime has been enough to obtain compliance with government edicts no matter how ridiculous or disastrous.
We will be in an entirely different world if the regime suddenly is compelled to enforce those edicts by naked, open coercion requiring armed force.
For one thing it will be rather more expensive. For another it will be rather more unpopular. For a third it will rather be like an occupation by a foreign army- especially if the force is deployed to prevent Texas from leading a swarm of states out of the union.
In fact I submit that it will eventually lead up to open war between the regime and the people- and as someone once said war has a logic all its own.
Whatever flows from that won’t be warm and fuzzy for anyone involved.
It will be particlularly difficult to use naked force as most of the people serving in the “Naked Force” Department of the government are “Red Staters” themselves. I would think that they will be unlikely to fire on their kith and kin.
The military has sworn an oath foremost to protect the constitution. I hardly think that they’ll be all enthusiastic about supporting the EPA’s attempt to regulate against the people by fiat.
They’re coming back with a posse.
Oh, THAT’LL work out well. Bring lots of ammo, guys.
I have no pity on this administration, they have brought this upon their own deserving heads.
In suing Arizona they revealed the official policy of this administration is not to enforce some laws for the purpose of their own political gain. In appointing certain people to judicial office they made it plain respect for the rule of law is secondary to their desired outcomes.
They have revealed that to them, the law is a chump.
It only follows that when they attempt to invent new laws and enforce their policies on us for their own political gain there will be a renewed and sincere resistance. After all, they have already shown us that the law is a chump.
The Real Old Salt @ 54:
Thank you for the link to the article “Walking the Plank-ton”. I read the article and found it interesting.
I’m inclined to agree that the false assertion “global warming is killing the ocean’s plankton” is probably the next part of the global warming scam (the usual suspects from the Left are promoting this). However I still suspect that a decline in the ocean’s phytoplankton maybe the real reason why the atmosphere’s carbon dioxide has been increasing.
We are fouling up the ocean’s ecosystem. Major fish populations have crashed and wiped out entire industries, e.g. Icelandic cod, sardines in Monterey Bay, etc. Phytoplankton are microscopic creatures and live near the ocean’s surface (they’re very susceptible to poisoning). The comment about causing a plankton bloom through introduction of pulverized rust is interesting. What’s the chemical reaction that’s benefiting the phytoplankton? I’m not a chemist but my suspicion is the rust is changing the level of dissolved oxygen in the water. A quick search of the web revealed the following on this specific topic:
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1206.html
Eggplant @ 61:
Increasing the iron ions available as a nutrient. While most in locations the limiting nutrients are nitrogen and phosphorus, there are locations where iron is the limiting factor.
You’ve heard of “dead zones” in the oceans. These are locations where the phytoplankton growth is blooming and creating anoxic conditions on the bottom. Usually caused by runoff providing all too much nutrients for the phytoplankton. Ocean temperature is not a factor.
i don’t think O and EPA are anywhere near as stupid as they seem –the stupid act is the deniability fact.
Many interested parties –from Bin Laden and other outright enemies thru such academics as the Russian prof Igor Panarin –have asserted that international ‘fair play’ requires the USA in European-nation-sized pieces.
Obama and the American left’s famous love for things European may begin with what they see as the ‘fair’ size of those nations.
Soros is on record, he’s never tried to hide it, his oppo to the Dollar as international reserve currency.
That little Kremlin/DC love nest known as the Council on Foreign Relations must break up anything too rambunctious or unwieldy to play nice with others in the ‘peace-thru-lobotomy’ NWO they’re busily banging together out of sight in the basement.
And most of all, the agencies are the president’s errand runners –EPA is being run by inner-czar Carole Browner, once and future board member of some large above-ground world socialist organization based in the UN.
–all that and more is why I’m afeerd us patriots & willing to be Minutemens polishin’ up the Gonzales “Come and Take It” Cannon are just playing right into the Red Hand.
That said –so be it, if that’s how it is –but we ought to remove –in our minds for now –the American origin credential from THEM instead of them from US.
LarryD @ 62 said:
“You’ve heard of “dead zones” in the oceans. These are locations where the phytoplankton growth is blooming and creating anoxic conditions on the bottom. Usually caused by runoff providing all too much nutrients for the phytoplankton. Ocean temperature is not a factor.”
This is consistent with what I’ve read on the topic. Phytoplankton happily grow over a wide temperature range. The insensitivity to temperature immediately refutes the “global warming is killing the phytoplankton line-of-nonsense”. I’ve read that the nutrients causing the ocean “dead zones” are typically agricultural run-off. That’s bad news because agricultural run-off is not something we can easily reduce without impacting food production. What spooks me most is the possibility of “too many people” being the main driver behind the reduction of phytoplankton. It concerns me that there are serious environmental issues out that are hidden behind the smoke-and-mirrors of socialist agenda driven politics.
Refering back to LarryD @ 62:
Supposedly iron is necessary for the production of chlorophyll. The condition of iron deficiency killing plants is called “chlorosis”. But here’s the weird part: Chlorophyll is based upon magnesium and not iron (there is no iron in the chlorophyll molecule), refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll
Perhaps iron plays an essential role in the production of chlorophyll as some sort of catalyst?
e/64; It concerns me that there are serious environmental issues out that are hidden behind the smoke-and-mirrors of socialist agenda driven politics –one of the deadliest attacks of all, the poisoned well.
The administration has already sent their reply to the letter. In the recently passed bill to aid Teachers and Public Safety personel, they included a clause that requirest Texas to maintain education spending at current levels through 2013 in order to quailfy for the $800M in aid. Of course the reason for the bill in the first place is that education spending is decreasing sharply which will cause teacher layoffs, of which the aid is designed to prevent. This is kinda like a reverse ear mark where a state is specifically excluded. It will be interesting to see the response by Texas to this move by the administration.
m/67; i think we’re in for a lame duck session to end all lame duck sessions. i mean, literally. the agencies would hardly be running amok if they couldn’t count on a supine congress at least long enough to wreck the shop.
#65 Eggplant – It turns out (I googled “iron containing enzymes”) that iron is needed as a coenzyme in dozens of metabolic enzymes, including several of the ones needed for the synthesis of RNA and DNA and several more involved in the control of reactive oxygen species. Iron really is a growth limiter in a lot of places in the ocean.
Regarding your #61, it is quite possible that the issue of phytoplankton and global warming is one of those nasty little feedback loops, specifically with respect to CO2 levels. Less plankton means more CO2, obviously. But more dissolved CO2 also means less plankton, by another route. Many plankton species use some variety of calcium carbonate as part of their structure, and more acid water caused by increased dissolved CO2 makes it more difficult for the plankton to deposit CaCO3 into those structures.
Fletcher Christian @ 69 said:
“it is quite possible that the issue of phytoplankton and global warming is one of those nasty little feedback loops … Many plankton species use some variety of calcium carbonate as part of their structure, and more acid water caused by increased dissolved CO2 makes it more difficult for the plankton to deposit CaCO3 into those structures.”
The problem with that argument is phytoplankton have been around for hundreds of millions of years. Diatomaceous earth and presumably limestone are the sedimentary remains of phytoplankton. On a hundred million year time scale, we are at historical lows in terms of carbon dioxide atmospheric concentration, refer to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phanerozoic_Carbon_Dioxide.png
The Earth along with its phytoplankton survived eras where atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations were much higher and presumably the ocean’s pH was more acidic.
I just did a google search on the issue of phytoplankton sensitivity to pH but the information was ambiguous. I found a thesis where an attempt was made to understand this, i.e. “The effect of lower pH on phytoplankton growth in the Galapagos Archipelago” by Trina Litchendorf. Unfortunately, the thesis was inconclusive, i.e. there were issues with greater amounts of iron being dissolved in the water due to a more acidic pH.
Earlier, EPA had recinded 133 discharge permits granted by Texas EPA under a prior agreement to let Texas do the EPA’s work of permitting. The EPA withdrew their earlier delegation of state permitting they had granted Texas. Texas was content to look at the total releases from a site while EPA wanted each process within a location to meet limits separately.
Yes, the battle is intensifying. So how does it escalate?
The EPA could decide to close down a Texas business for failing to operate under an EPA permit. An oil refinery could be one visible target although a local dry cleaner might be easier for the feds since the dry cleaner could not afford a long legal battle.
Failing a voluntary compliance, EPA would eventually force closure by sending in federal Marshalls, selected non-Texans I’m sure, armed with an administrative order and side arms. Texas would have to block that, probably by using Texas Rangers to protect the business. Obama would nationalize the Texas National Guard, like Eisenhower did in Arkansas. At that point the question becomes – who does the Guard report to? The Governor of Texas or Obama? Assuming they accept the governor as their commander, when do regular Army troops get called?
I could see the same excalation scenario developing in Arizona as Sheriff Joe gets some federal civil rights injunction slapped on him. Again, federal marshalls come to haul him in and state and local forces block them. A new “Fairness Doctrine” from the FCC could see them revoking radio and TV station licenses. Will they use armed agents to shut down a broadcast?
If the Republicans take the House, expect them to slash budgets for the more offensive regulatory agencies. I’d bet Obama would refuse to abide by the appropriation limitations and spend money anyway.
If seems the best groundwork we conservatives can perform is education of our armed forces, local police, and government workers in the concept of constitutional balance of powers. The point people who will have to make personal decisions under pressure on whether to follow the Constitution or to continue to support their families and careers need to be confident in their understanding of constitutionality before we can expect them to disobey unconstitutional orders from political appointees above them.
A small number of citizens making the right choices could prevent much political mayhem and maybe violence.
Having recently finished reading a 1934 history of the years 1850-1865, I was greatly impressed by the parallels in our country in the lead-up to the Civil War and our country today. It lead me to post to my blog, that we could see another civil war or at least a constitutional convention. At the time I saw the controls of the Federal government as the analog to slavery.
This post and the comment thread seem to confirm my thoughts. Also I remember reading in one of Bruce Catton’s books that like all civil wars, the US Civil War started with the killing of civilians by government forces. I immediately thought of Ruby Ridge and Waco, Texas.
FC…
Take it from someone who knows chemistry…
Increased carbon dioxide HELPS bivalves — and others — to form coral.
Biological forces are exponential — if given the raw materials — so both forests and coral must ramp up exponentially when their RATE LIMITING material increases.
Study Reaction Kinetics, PLEASE.
Eggplant…
Are you reading rough drafts from idiots…
Google: Porphyrin Ring Structure
I’m not going to hijack this thread into organic chemistry essential to all life.
But, for those with the mind for it….
Porphyrin structures are resonant cavities for both the capture of solar radiation AND the transmission of quick transition energy.
That is: Chlorophyl uses Mg as the central metallic ion.
Hemoglobin uses Fe as the central metallic ion.
After Benzene, Porphyrin is the most significant aromatic compound for chemists.
For biologists, porphyrin is only exceeded by DNA in importance.
—–
I heartily recommend that the Club study up on what is keeping them alive.
FC — you need to sit down with the Baroness and get a one on one lecture from Britain’s foremost organic chemist: Thatcher.
Special kudos to her efforts on the Freon front from the Butterfly.
( See Nobel 1995 — her impact, IIRC, never mentioned — I absolutely guarantee you that I am not.)
Give it your best. Cheers!
The succession of Perry by White will put an end to this crisis.