As American as Apple Pie
Victor Davis Hanson says that both “showing your papers” and discrimination are as American as apple pie. With respect to the “papers please issue”, Hanson writes in the National Review that: “I have done that numerous times this year — boarding airplanes, purchasing things on a credit card, checking into a hotel, showing a doorman an I.D. when locked out, going to the DMV”. But Professor Hanson’s most interesting point is that certain kinds of discrimination are viewed as instruments of “fairness”. For example, take life at the University.
we already profile constantly. When I had top classics students, I quite bluntly explained to graduating seniors that those who were Mexican American and African American had very good chances of entering Ivy League or other top graduate schools from Fresno, those who were women and Asians so-so chances, and those who were white males with CSUF BAs very little chance, despite straight A’s and top GRE scores. The students themselves knew all that better than I — and, except the latter category, had packaged and self-profiled themselves for years in applying for grants, admissions, fellowships, and awards. I can remember being told by a dean in 1989 exactly the gender and racial profile of the person I was to hire before the search had even started, and not even to “waste my time” by interviewing a white male candidate. Again, the modern university works on the principle that faculty, staff, and students are constantly identified by racial and gender status …
The unseen third party in the Arizona immigration debate is “positive discrimination”. Asking for people to be actually subject to the same criteria is particularly objectionable because it undermines an implicit public policy goal of giving ‘disadvantaged’ groups a leg up by making things easier for them. It’s not discrimination that’s bad, but the kind of discrimination that matters. In this world, it is immoral to ask a ‘poor migrant’ to produce papers. That’s “Nazism” but a ‘rich migrant’ of the same color is not only subjected to the “papers please” requirement but asked to post bonds, show property ownership, exhibit bank accounts, subject himself to security clearances, health checks and attend interviews with a nameless consular official sitting behind an armored glass window. And then if he does all that, he can be asked to wait. And wait. And wait. Hanson describes how this works:
Literally thousands of highly skilled would-be legal immigrants from Latin America, Africa, Asia, and Europe wait patiently while others cut in front and illegally obtain what others legally wait for — residence in the U.S. … It is a bit strange that those of the upper classes are outraged over Arizona without empathy for entry-level U.S. workers or lower-middle-class taxpayers who end up paying the most for illegal immigration. But then, those who express the most moral outrage often are the least sensitive to the moral questions involved.
Wikipedia describes the kinds of waits involved for different categories of legal immigrants. It might take a legal immigrant five years to be reunited with his wife or minor child or 11 years to see his brothers. And if you’re a skilled worker the waiting line is the better part of a decade long. But that’s because you’re not a ‘migrant’, because in that case it’s a moral duty to help them across the border by leaving stashes of water, food. The people smugglers benefit thereby, but that’s nothing to the point.
| CATEGORY | NUMBERS WAITING | WAITING TIME | |
| F1 | Unmarried sons and daughters (21 years of age or older) of U.S. citizens | 23,400 | 6–7 years |
| F2A | Spouses and minor children (under 21 year old) of lawful permanent residents |
87,934 | 4–5 years |
| F2B | Unmarried sons and daughters (21 years of age or older) of lawful permanent residents |
26,266 | 9–10 years |
| F3 | Married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens | 23,400 | 8–9 years |
| F4 | Brothers and sisters of adult U.S. citizens | 65,000 | 10–11 years |
| EB3 | Skilled workers, professionals, and other workers | 40,000 | 7–8 years |
But in any case the legal immigrant or visitor will have to show his papers. And what papers! Anyone who thinks that showing your papers on American soil isn’t normal might want to read this description of what its like to attend a visa interview in Melbourne, Australia.
If you are going to the US for less than 90 days you don’t need a visa. In our case, we were planning to spend several weeks in Canada … includes time spent visiting a neighbouring country … so the total time … would be counted as more than 90 days …
We arrive at the Consulate .. .wait outside the locked door on the ground floor. We are the first in line. The security guard opens the door and asks the nature of our business … It seems as though this is registering the fact that we have entered the building. We each register our name and passport number and print a registration form which we have to carry with us together with our passport. The guard then checks our registration forms and our passports. …
You then have to remove your belt and shoes and empty your pockets. These items together with any items you are carrying go through an airport-style x-ray machine. You then walk through an airport-style scanner. At the other side you get your belt and shoes. You can keep your valuables and documents needed for the interview but other items (e.g. raincoats) are placed in a locker and you are given a locker token. …
you are escorted to the 6th floor where there is another security station. This time you don’t have to remove your belt and shoes but you do have to empty your pockets. All our items go through another airport-style x-ray machine and we get to walk through another airport-style scanner. It seems as though this guy’s job is to check that the first guy has done his job properly. He does this by opening wallets, etc. and checking inside. In our case he found a small pencil in Ruth’s diary which should have been picked up at the first security station. He holds this for pickup on our exit. …
We are then given a numbered ticket … At window number 1 there is a guy behind the counter. It looks as though he is behind bullet-proof glass. Communication is via microphone and speakers. He asks to see our paper work and photos. We pass the documents through the slot under the window. He sorts the documents and checks that everything is OK. He passes back any items they don’t need. …
After a few minutes our number is called and we go to window number 2. This is the fingerprint scanning station. They scan the four fingers on each hand and then the two thumbs side by side. After a couple of attempts Tom is asked to wipe his fingers on his forehead to get some more oil on them. This seems to help although the glass on the scanner gets smeared and we have to clean it with a tissue. After a couple of more tries including pressing the fingers more firmly on the glass we have a successful scan. …
After a few minutes our number is called and we go to window number 3. The first step is to have one of your index fingers scanned so they can check your fingerprint against the ones they just captured 5 minutes before in the window right next to the current window. The guy asks a few questions about the purpose of your trip and family ties in Australia.
The Australian family who described their experiences were delighted at the courtesy they were shown and the fact that their visas arrived by courier the next day. You couldn’t do better at the papers pliz game than if you were at the prisoner’s visiting area in Sing-sing. And yet Al Sharpton talks about apartheid states and Nazis. In reality any illegal immigrant who is actually treated like a legal immigrant or visitor would sue for the violation of his human rights — and win.
As Professor Hanson wrote, “those who express the most moral outrage often are the least sensitive to the moral questions involved”. But not oblivious to the financial and political advantages. What do you call a policy which protects a certain class of livelihoods and a specific political agenda? You call it “fairness”. Call it that, but if you believe it there’s a bridge in Brooklyn you might want to buy.
embedded by Embedded VideoYouTube Direkt
To question fairness is to question not only discrimination, but certain kinds of discrimination. And you don’t want to go there. Just move on. After all, that’s the way the game is played: by any means necessary; politics is war by other means; if you can’t the stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, etc, etc. For those who don’t accept the morality of it, the real challenge is not to get mad but to get politically even. It’s worth a thought anyway.
Tip Jar or Subscribe for $5
I was called in to interview for jury duty and walked through an X-ray scanner that confiscated a boutique letter opener – very stylish with ornamental cloisonne flowers (white irises). The object was returned to me upon leaving by a security guard who advised me “now don’t you go opening any more letters with that.”
I thought the remark was very funny but I get mixed reactions in the retelling.
I thought the remark was very funny but I get mixed reactions in the retelling.
So there are people that do not have a sense of humor?
I recall hearing of a interesting case at Vandenberg AFB some years ago. A building needed a new roof and a quote was tendered by a local contractor. But it was then decreed that the work was a small and disadvantaged business set-aside. Such a firm was found not locally but down in Los Angeles and a contract was issued for a cost substantially above the quote of the local contractor. The disadvantaged business owner then subcontracted the work to the same local firm, which performed the work for the earlier quoted price, and then pocketed the difference.
Everybody’s happy right? The local firm got the work they would have anyway. The distant disadvantaged firm got paid for doing no work, and the building got fixed. The people in charge of issuing contracts to small and disadvantaged firms got kudos for a job well done.
And the taxpayer got screwed – by Racial Profiling.
“Your IRS Form 1040 papers, please? Donker. Now empty your wallet into the pot and you can go. Heil Obama!”
Being Italian, the notion that having to show ‘papers’ is ALL OF A SUDDEN some sort of violation of civil rights is insulting… Pray more of us don’t catch that.
To me this entire debate is a theatre of the absurd. Furthermore, I wonder if the compare and contrast of Tea Party demonstrations with the May Day marches will be noticed by anyone.
That is precisely the point.
Gringo.
This will all end with guns. Depend upon it.
The immigration debate is basically a political issue where the law is used to justify one point of view or the other. It’s not as if the the law were “out there” and controlled the debate. The political question is over “sovereignty”. For some the issue is primarily an economic one: how to make money or employ certain classes of people. Hence the argument that immigration is “an economic issue”. Others have long thought that borders were about keeping a country intact and secure. But that is just a point of view in politics. Sooner or later if you bring enough people in who think the issue is fundamentally about “fairness” or “jobs” then they will change the laws to whatever degree is necessary to accomodate that point of view.
Eventually of course, they’ll destroy the host. But that’s tomorrow’s problem. Leftism is about the future but really only in the sense that what it cares about is money now. Today. Tomorrow is where all the cans are.
The problem however is that for once, the Left is partly right. It is about jobs. And what could once be tolerated is no longer tolerable in a recession (or a depression). Unfortunately for the progressives the dread day has come. The day has come when all the cans kicked down the road are rising up in a pile that nobody can get around.
So this changes the political equation. Legal immigrants and poor Americans clinging to jobs on the margin are living in fear of losing their jobs. Forever. And the gangs are coming across. This plus the fact that the old order is now having trouble staying solvent means that the politics behind unlimited immigration is going to get weaker.
But this is no time to be faint of heart! Double-down. Immigration “reform”. The Left instinctively reacts to the sound of the cup scraping the bottom of the barrel by redoubling the gorging, like some mindless automaton. Prediction: epic fail. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of their lives, with apologies to Rick.
And as for those who now know what is at stake, welcome back to the fight. This time we’ll win and maybe it will be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Something’s been flying under the radar on this for a lot of folks, and today proved to be something of a coup. Namely, Puerto Rico may have become the 51st state today. Virtually out of nowhere, Congress passed a resolution today that almost guarantees it. Three times in the past Puerto Ricans have voted on whether or not to become a state, in 1967, 1993 and 1998. Each time the ballot question was, basically, “do you want to become a state?” Today the way has been cleared for a vote with question, “do you want things to remain as they are?” First of all this intices a natural vote “no”, in what amounts to essentially a push-poll. Who is ever for the status quo? Secondly it stealthfully aligns otherwise disparate factions. There are four main ones in PR, those who like the protectorate status, those who want a protectorate with more benefits, those who prefer statehood, and those who prefer independence. If the first vote passes, change is mandated and the question then becomes, “do you want to become a state or go independent?” The independence faction is estimated to be around 3% of the PR population, so statehood will be a lock.
But it gets better. Non-resident Puerto Ricans living in the United States, i.e. those who are Puerto Rican, technically by race only according to the Census, get to vote according the bill passed today. This group actually outnumbers the group of native Puerto Ricans living on the island. It could happen that Puerto Rican natives on the street vote against statehood, but it’ll happen anyway because Puerto Ricans on the mainland vote them in against their will!
Puerto Rico will add two Democratic senators and 6-7 Democratic legislators. Its Congressional delegation will be larger than 25 current US states.
Why is this happening now, and so stealthfully, with no debate? FDR was seen as nefarious for trying to pack the court. What a team that’s trying to pack the states?
A woman from Norway with tow-headed kids
Boarded ship for the US one day
And settled in steerage so young and afraid
Their passage was only one way
The northern Atlantic in winter was fierce
And in steerage the air grew most foul
As the ship heeled to seas that came crashing aboard
And the wind made the most fearsome howl
At Ellis they waited in rooms densely packed
Where clerks at long tables all day
Asked for places of birth and the spelling of names
And in short time were sent on their way
No consular visits, no bulletproof glass
No scanners, no waiting for years
She got on a ship with her husband and kids
After kissing her family with tears
They settled in Philly and raised fine strong sons
And beautiful daughters as well
So that’s how my grandmom came to the New World
And I have a story to tell
The best & brightest certainly have created a dog’s breakfast when their President has to stand up & complain about a State’s plan to (OH NO!) enforce existing Federal laws.
It’s just another rotting cross-member in the shaky old structure swaying in the breeze on the beach. We don’t know if Hurricane Iran is going to topple that structure eventually, or maybe the Debt Tsunami, or the North Korean Firewind. But we do know that the once strong & resilient structure is now riddled with worms — and it will collapse.
While the precise failure mode is morbidly fascinating, the real question is — who is going to be around to rebuild afterwards, and what will they rebuild?
Vanderleun,
“This will all end with guns. Depend upon it.” You may be well right -the real question is whose?
Once the bottom of the barrel is scraped clean the next step is to dismantle the barrel and use the staves for firewood. After all, we’ll never need to use that barrel again, but it would be nice to warm our hands once more before the curtain.
Some quotes from AP, in the past two days.
A 17-year-old Mexican was sentenced to 40 years in prison Thursday for murdering a U.S. Border Patrol agent who was lured from his vehicle during an attempted robbery and shot repeatedly in the head.
She had been sexually assaulted, slashed with a machete and shot in the head, but as the young woman clung to life she could think only of one thing: Where are my friends?…Emergency responders found the three — Dashon Harvey and Iofemi Hightower, both 20, and 18-year-old Terrance “T.J.” Aeriel — slumped against a wall behind the school. Prosecutors say they were led down a flight of stairs, lined up and each shot in the back of the head….The first defendant, Nicaraguan national Rodolfo Godinez, is on trial on murder, felony murder, robbery and weapons charges.
A Wildwood man charged in the beating death of his girlfriend’s 2-year-old disabled son has pleaded guilty to aggravated manslaughter. Damian Garcia Rodriguez entered his plea today in a deal with Cape May County prosecutors.
U.S. police arrested 34 people and broke up a drug smuggling network that hauled at least 20 tons of marijuana over the Mexico-Arizona border, authorities said on Tuesday.
A study of immigrants in Arizona published in 2008 found that non-citizens, mostly in the country illegally, held an estimated 280,000 full-time jobs.
Being opposed to the above, and the ultimate cause of it all, makes you a racist, don’t cha know.
A pity the U.S. has become such a welfare state. If we all worked for what we received and were held responsible for our actions, I’d be happy to welcome (and work alongside) all who proved they knew how to work hard and admitted they were guests in our home until such time as they demonstrated they had earned a place in our family.
I worry we have let the Left define the terms. Perhaps we should call them trespassers.
This is our home. We expect visitors to our home to ask our permission, to come thru the front door and show some respect for our laws and concerns. Trespassers are not welcome. We are a gentle people that dislike personal confrontation and the use of force but we understand we must when they continue this uncivil, impolite, and disrespectful behavior.
I’ve traveled in Europe, and I have ALWAYS had to produce my papers, when asked.
Even though I don’t reside in Arizona, if I am stopped by the police today, I STILL have to show my license (identification) and registration (proof of tax paid). If my license or registration is expired, or if the police think something else is wrong, OF COURSE they will continue to check up on me. How exactly is this “racial profiling” ?!
And how did “Hispanic” get to be a “race” anyway, and not just another mixed-up ethnic group? Just because they speak a dialect of Spanish? And does this new “race” include Brazilians, who speak Portuguese?
If the federales were able to enforce their idiotic immigration laws, then the governor of Arizona would not have needed to attempt to protect the actual taxpayers of Arizona.
But, I don’t really understand how NON-CITIZENS are entitled to “civil rights,” so maybe I just don’t comprende all the nuances of how the US Immigration and Customs Service enforce the ridiculous and haphazard “immigration policy” that various Congress-critters have saddled us with…
Some 22 years ago, when I had just married an American and was applying for my green card, I was told that the process would take 18 months, meaning I would have to stay idle and not support my family. I could also leave the US, return to Canada and wait 6 months. The immigration official told me that a third option –nudge nudge wink wink– was to state that I had worked illegally as a field hand for 90 days and get approved much faster since an amnesty was in effect. In my case it wasn’t a racial preference but a preference for dishonesty and/or lack of education.
The immigration official told me that a third option –nudge nudge wink wink– was to state that I had worked illegally as a field hand for 90 days and get approved much faster since an amnesty was in effect. In my case it wasn’t a racial preference but a preference for dishonesty and/or lack of education.
It’s a time-honored political litmus test to find for those with the potential to be the right kind of voter. Boss Tweed and his men knew how to do it.
But maybe Tammany Hall didn’t collapse. It just got all dandified and rebranded. But the core principles remain the same. “I seen my opportunities and I took ‘em’”. To hell with the Constitution. That’s for saps. But as for taking your opportunities when you see ‘em, well that’s downright American, or at least Democrat. That phrase is Moses and the Prophets, the Koran and the Bible all rolled in one.
More VDH:
How Could They Do That in Arizona! by Victor Davis Hanson
Come May Day, the protests will be bigger than the last few, if only to try and force the democrats to pass a bill, not just any immigration bill but of course the one the protesters want.
Which is to be made U.S. Citizens without any of the waiting or work that the rest of the world has to endure and has endured for years.
VDH lays it out in simple terms, or as simple as you can make of this decades old mess.
Maybe the decision to not invade Mexico back when, was a big mistake. If we had Mexico might be a functioning U.S. State and all of this…this..would be just like a bad dream.
Yea, I know – if only…
Papa Ray
I humbly add my small bits to Dr. Hanson’s politically incorrect truth.
As far as an example of discrimination as policy, I have only to look back to my days as a Peace Officer. In my Department, we were under various diversity mandates, not court ordered; but the products of the politically correct fantasies that emanated from the staff weenies in Admin.
Our promotion policy was that for various ranks there were requirements for education, time with the Department, plus various job related specialty qualifications for specialist positions [if you were going for an armoror position, you needed certain gunsmith certificates] in order to take the written test. In theory, for each position that was open, the top three high scorers would go before an oral board who would have their records, and choose from them. The system was changed first from “top 3″ to “3+3″. Top three high scorers, plus the top 3 politically correct minority scorers, regardless of how low their scores. Then the system was again changed so that if the oral board did NOT select a pc minority; then each board member who did not select a pc minority had to write a report to the Cabinet level executive in charge [we were a state agency] of us explaining “why they did not support the Department’s Diversity Policy”, and a copy of the report was added to the oral board member’s own file for the next time he or she went up for promotion. Which of course killed any chance they had of ever getting promoted themselves. And they wondered why we had no confidence in the promotion system.
What they wanted was to void the rules in favor of their political allies/dependents.
Something similar is happening with Arizona.
1) Law enforcement in Arizona is not going on “illegal hunts”. They have to make contact the same way that they do with any citizen. It involves probable cause.
2) If there is probable cause, any cop can require ID of anyone on the streets. Arizona law, I believe, codifies that in statute.
3) Here is the little secret that the Left does not want you to remember. If you are here legally as a permanent you have what is called a “Green Card”. They are actually blue now, but used to be green. If you are issued one, you are required by Federal criminal law to have it in your possession at all times and show it when asked. This is a condition of having permanent residence in the US as a foreign national; and failure to comply could result in revocation of resident status and deportation. Oops. It’s already the law.
4) So, if you are a US citizen, legal resident, illegal alien in Arizona you already can be ID’ed by the police at any time if there is probable cause. If you are a foreign national here legally, you are already required to be able to prove your legal status at all times using a specific Federal document.
5) Even if the process results in the arrest and deportation of vast numbers of illegal aliens; it is no more an indication of police misconduct than police catching a large number of burglars or armed robbers. Being in the country illegally is a violation of both Federal and State laws. It means what they are doing is working.
The goal for TWANLOC is to make law enforcement a matter of class and status, not law. If you are favored by the powers that be, you will be above the law. If you are not favored by those in power, neither law or Constitution will protect you. That pretty much sums up what it means to be a Democrat today.
Subotai Bahadur
#8 Cowboy
As I’ve said before, the Democrats have burned their electoral bridges by passing Obamacare. Their only hope is to bring in a large pool of new voters who will welcome the welfare state and keep them in office. Its happening now.
The main thing is to keep it off the radar screen for the time being until its done, and the MSM is doing a fine job of that.
RE: 3. RWE. Absolutely. The DC company I work for ‘teams’ with 8A (minority) firms all the time to get contracts from the feds. Some of the 8As are little more than shell companies, headed by such disadvantaged minorities as Indians (Oooom, not Woo Woo). Some of the RFPs state explicitly that the feds can pay 10% -more- if they give the business to an 8A.
The Clintons made it clear to the Civil Service that promotion depended on ‘promoting diversity’. The diversity mafia is now rising to the top of the Civil Service as all the old White guys retire.
Two years ago the Census contacted me to do an in depth interview. Since it was not a year that ends in a Zero, I figured it was a scam and didn’t reply. But they tracked me down and told me I had to cooperate because it was the law. So I answered a slew of questions.
This year I sent in the census form. Then last night a census worker shows up (unannounced) on the front porch. I was cooking dinner at the time and told her to take a hike since that form I sent in was all they were getting from me. I was not terribly polite, I’m afraid, and felt a tad bad about it since she was just trying to make some money.
So I started wondering: how’d I get “randomly chosen” for an in depth interview twice in two years? I mean, how much information are they collecting on Americans?
So the next day I called the office of the guy who represents Washington to our district (I’ve come to the conclusion that we have 435 Congressmen from Washington in Washington). I told the lady on the line that I was among the 80 percent of Americans who don’t trust the government and why are they collecting so much information on Americans?
She gave me a number to call about my “in-depth interviews.” I talked to a guy from something called “The American Community Survey,” if I remember correctly. They were the ones who conducted my first interview. He told me they tried to represent people who don’t vote. It was like something he had said 10,000 times before and all the nuance had escaped and only the truth remained: they represent people who don’t vote to policy makers. Well, I allowed as to how they are doing a good job. People who don’t vote seem to get better representation than the people who do. And the people who pay taxes get the poorest representation of all. Maybe taxpayers should stop voting?
Well, he informed me that I was not on the list for an in depth interview. Which got me wondering what the census worker wanted. Maybe to tell me she smelled smoke? So I asked a neighbor who works for the census. He told me he’d heard my name bandied about the office. So I asked if next time they show up with their questionnaire and a swat team? He said, no, no. They take it in stride.
So I talked to him and then talked to some local conspiracy theorists and here’s what I put together. There is a university near where I live and they want to count all the students who live on and off campus. That will make the local area (heavily Democrat) count a bit more when drawing congressional lines. The hope is to come up with more safe Democrat Districts. And so they are trying to interview everything that moves — sometimes more than once. No chance of double counting, though!
So “show us your papers and tell us everything about yourself” is OK if it gets an extra Democrat down in Washington — where he can represent “them that don’t vote.” I mean, why bother voting when they got that survey.
I recieved this in an email message from an old comrade this AM:
“TO PEE, OR NOT TO PEE –Words of wisdom from an unknown person:
Like most folks in this country, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes & the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit.
In order to get that paycheck, in my case, I am required to pass a random urine test (with which I have no problem).
What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don’t have to pass a urine test.
So, here is my question: Shouldn’t one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please understand I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their BUTT—-doing dope while I work.
Can you imagine how much money each state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?
I guess we could call the program “URINE OR YOU’RE OUT”! ”
Dovetails quite nicely with the conversation.
Subotai Bahadur @19:
Sir, if you won’t consider the CiC position how about an appointment to the Supreme Court?
Yet another great post sir.
Maybe the only solution is for it all to just burn down.
How can we speed up the process? Do you have any suggestions?
VDH forgot to mention an “out” for white guys pursuing a career in the humanities: go, or pretend to be, gay.
Once again no rational basis undergirds the position of the leftist. If Arizona’s law is defective, then so is federal law, and in fact so are a whale of other laws in this country and in every other country which maintains its borders. If Arizona’s error is in enforcement, then the whole of the United Nations excepting the United States stands accused as a racist body. Mexico, who now campaigns against her northern neighbor, is a standout offender who guards her own southern border with great zeal.
The position of the leftist is that the current, decades long charade regarding immigration policy must be maintained. That is the only morally acceptable course, regardless of the damage it does to our community, the capricious slight it makes to legal immigrants and the very idea of due process, and to the shrinking fortunes of poor and unskilled Americans who must compete in this economic environment against illegal immigrant’s labor.
That one is gnaw. One great engine of advancement into the American middle class had withstood our manufacturing collapse, and that’s the construction industry. This environment has been like Custer’s Last Stand for those aspirations in this “Mancession”. Now the jobs are harder to find, and when you do find them they don’t pay nearly as well.
It is unreasonable, irresponsible, and downright unconscionable, that the leftist leadership is more interested in racebaiting than in addressing these issues. This furthers the notion that these people should not be in charge of anything, ever.
This just in:
Arizona immigration law hit with its first 3 lawsuits
The article is short but interesting but the comments are even more telling.
There are definately going to be unintended consequences from this.
On all sides. I just hope that the conservative and moderates don’t do something to give Obama’s mob ammunition that will counter our efforts in the coming elections. You know that is what they will try and do just like they are trying to discredit the Tea Party movement.
Papa Ray
Victor Davis Hanson makes a good point. Everyone has to show some type of Identification at airports, federal buildings, hotels, and other places. To politically evaluate this ID procedure to a racial level is pure race baiting politics.
As for the political part of this debate, The Big Zero is blatantly trying to increase his voting base by diluting the voting rights of people who followed the law. In short, The Zero is trying to pull-off the biggest Gerrymandering swindle the US has ever seen. Further he is trying to power away from individual states and give it to himself. Those items should be grounds for impeachment.
One the economic side, it has been proven over and over that illegal aliens are huge net tax money users (every thing from non-payment of taxes, medical costs such as aids to the cost of illegal alien criminals).
If the Big Zero is going to Gerrymander, shred state laws and entrench himself in government he should charge every illegal alien a $95,000 processing fee offset the tremendous associated with turning our boarder states into a suburb of Tijuana.
In the final analysis, it is greasy politicians like the Big Zero who are the Problem. These people should be sitting in the jail – instead of sitting in high political positions.
Read it all. You might want to note also, that if you don’t read spanish you won’t know of what is going on in the rest of Mexico or further south. Most is not translated to the english versions of major Mexican or other newspaper websites.
I read it fairly well and have neighbors to help if something is not clear. Things are going to hell fast all over Mexico, not just the northern border of same. There are illegals within miles of me that have told me that it is suicide to continue living “down there” and that their biggest worry is that the thugs and Cartels will follow them north into the U.S.
I didn’t have the heart to tell them that they were already in almost every major and even middle sized towns in America.
Papa Ray
7. wretchard
Exactly. I tried to say that pretty much and failed miserably here on PJM:
The problem with mass immigration of people with low intelligence
I guess ‘truth’ is racist.
I carry my driver’s license with me every time I leave my house. If necessary, I would be willing to carry my American passport. If I go to Arizona, I would carry my American passport.
In my daydreams, I can imagine a group of demonstrators holding up their American passports with signs such as “I’ve got my ID. What’s your problem?”
I did my own little survey today. I called about 15 landscaping companies looking for work. The guys with Mexican accents said, sorry, no. Business has fallen off. The guys with no Mexican accent (white guys), asked for a resume. My friend used to hire a landscaper for his house. The work was shoddy, never complete, when this guy was done. Yes, he was Mexican and always had a slew of illegals with him. Now instead of my buddy calling him, he calls my buddy begging for work. Too bad so sad amigo. The wheel is turning.
One thing I find odd about elitist circles is their preoccupation with – and I dare say fixation on – “diversity”. Yet, there is more than one kind of diversity.
An international convention of gangsters would have diversity. But it would be a diverse group of criminals, with criminality being the monolithic quality that unites them.
Moreover, there is a difference between the diversity that would naturally exist from getting the best people in various areas of expertise and looking for a “diverse” group of people and then calling labeling them “the best and the brightest”.
I can understand the idea of outreach, of looking outside of one’s culture for new people. Whenever a corporate culture becomes too monolithic in its thinking, bringing in outsiders to hire new people may be necessary. Yet, racial quotas and arbitrary goals generally promote insular thinking rather than undermining it. If you have a college department that is a result of race-based social engineering, the result is often an ideological monolith where no thinking gets done.
Much of what is called “diversity” is really tokenism – or ornamental diversity. Now, hiring people as living ornaments makes a certain amount of sense for fashion models and advertising campaigns. Yet, in the rest of the world, most people are expected to accomplish more than looking pretty for brochures.
Many selective universities consciously try to socially engineer the next generation’s ruling class, and they use ornamental diversity as a means to legitimize their hegemony. In other words, elitist universities routinely use the most fashionable form of racism to preserve and enhance their power.
Here is a real irony on “diversity”. If we had open borders and let everybody in, we would likely have a far more diverse group of new citizens than the group we would get from Amnesty, which would merely selectively reward criminals with citizenship.
In this world, it is immoral to ask a ‘poor migrant’ to produce papers. That’s “Nazism” but a ‘rich migrant’ of the same color is not only subjected to the “papers please” requirement but asked to post bonds, show property ownership, exhibit bank accounts, subject himself to security clearances, health checks and attend interviews with a nameless consular official sitting behind an armored glass window. And then if he does all that, he can be asked to wait. And wait. And wait.
I would argue two sides here.
First, that the poor migrants are almost all Hispanic, and those are almost all Mexican, so an ethnic explanation seems as likely as a class or economic one.
OTOH as a class explanation, you can’t ask them for papers because they wouldn’t have them, and the US would lose this big group of cheap workers. So a cynic would say it’s not really for political correctness that we do what we do, it’s because the rich want it that way.
Finally, I am bemused and confused by VDH’s comment: It is a bit strange that those of the upper classes are outraged over Arizona without empathy for entry-level U.S. workers or lower-middle-class taxpayers who end up paying the most for illegal immigration.
I don’t know about that, but a whole generation of middle-class STEM workers has been disowned and disenfranchised by more or less legal H-1B immigrants, so I don’t know what VDH is going on about the rich and the poor.
32. Alexis,
Sorry, but I ain’t buyin’ it.
That’s akin to saying, “If only we got rid of our laws, more law-abiding citizens would be decent on their own accord.”
Uh. No.
We make laws for a reason.
The problem is, we aren’t most other countries who rightfully and jealously guard their borders and impose stiff penalties to people who flagrantly enter their country without papers.
We can’t afford a bunch of beaners who paint a refried bean swastika on public property.
OUT of my COUNTRY, law-breakers and PRONTO!
Tcobb @ 20
Yep, the bald play of divisive rhetoric in concert with redistributive spoils & patronage purposefully designed to drive out one group and install a new one which insures political power is called “The Curley Effect”. The seminal paper describing the phenomenon is available on-line, although it could be found more easily (most references to it require various academic subscriptions). However, google “the curley effect harvard” and you can find a pdf of it on Harvard’s server. I’d post a link to it, but whenever I link something here my post never gets past moderation.
The paper chronicles the career of mayors of Boston and Detroit, as well as Robert Mugabe in Zimbawe, as it seeks to formally express the forces at work here. It seeks to explain why this phenomenon was so lethal to, say, Detroit, but yet not so much to, say, NYC even despite Tammany Hall.
Unfortunately, it seems to me the qualities required of leaders such as these mayors in order to hatch such universally disastrous schemes are abundantly found in progressives but always in Marxists bent on redistribution. And that’s exactly what we’ve got running the country atm. The current general welfare always becomes an annoyance to these types. Rather than the prize to be fought for, it actually becomes an obstacle to their idea of “progress”. It is never the end, and it stands in the way of the end, it must be destroyed.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence,
- Napoleon cited in a Wiki article on “Hanlon’s Razor.”
The Census is not part of some vast conspiracy to put your information in a super secret data base that will select candidates for the Billy Ayers Dude Ranch and Reeducation by Composting Center. This is not the government of the NSA that could potentially do such a thing, but would not. This is the government that aspires to be like the complacent idiots at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark who stick priceless treasures in a vast warehouse for “Top men” to write unreadable papers on.
There are virtues in the real Federal Civil Service. These include an exactitude in procedure, a devotion to communicating and informing all possible interested parties before implementing any procedure, a reverence for citing documentation and established practice, and caution regarding overtly self serving conduct. None of those are moral virtues but rather are the means of harnessing an amoral engine to achieve goals that may be moral or not. They do however give some protection against large scale reckless and arbitrary abuse, as opposed to a long steady campaign of incremental destruction.
The Census has none of those virtues. It is a temporary organization staffed with a leadership at the local level almost entirely by people who are not real Federal managers or supervisors. Managers posses full and arbitrary authority over the temporary workforce but lacks a firm grasp of the process or experience that could prevent error and waste. Given that the government should have been preparing to do the Census for 10 years the disorganization is inexcusable. The senior people are politically connected small businessmen and some unemployed professionals. They show little understanding of OPM regulations in how to handle staff. Real federal managers have absorbed some basic principles that come before not spending money. For example they will stress in training that one should never say or do anything that could create a liability for the government, that is why government workers, especially junior ones, are taught never to apologize. The Census has absorbed a few basic principles;
1. finish fast,
2. keep payroll costs down,
3. do it yourself and locally,
4. guard personal information.
The local civilian background of the leadership may be considered a good thing if the job really was a non-governmental short term job to accomplish a similar task. For example if a Big Six consulting firm was hired to inventory and organize a vast collection of medical records they might oversee a similar fast paced short term hiring training and task accomplishment cycle, although on a smaller scale. The process by which senior or junior people have been selected in the Census appears to be largely arbitrary. Some of the Enumerators, those are the ones who knock on doors to ask you questions, are retirees or housewives or recent college graduates or unemployed or underemployed professionally educated people. In my area at least it is a good crowd at the lower levels. They are certainly better than the entry level people working at TSA. Unfortunately the temporary nature of the job and the priorities of the leadership creates a sense of distrust and a separation between their goals.
If a Census worker knocks on your door, even if you had mailed the form in, do not assume a complicated plot. The simpler answer is that your answers are sitting in a box and they are under enormous pressure to fill in the blanks within the next two months. Would it have made sense to devise a system that more efficiently processed and verified all submissions in order to prevent wasteful duplication? Of course it would be but this is the government and the Census needs to be collected and tabulated now.
Our Lords and Masters have made the process even more painful by wrapping themselves in PC knots. The Census is beloved by three groups;
1. Politicians who use it to engineer districts,
2. Bureaucrats who use it to engineer programs,
2. Graduate students who use it to engineer time series studies.
The beauty of the Census is that it gives you numbers that can be compared over time.
Many of us may question whether the government has any reason to ask after anyone’s race or if they are Hispanic. Remember that to the government Hispanic is not a race but an extra identifier. A person can claim to an Aleut or Swede (as their “race”) and Hispanic. The book answer on that is the Voting Rights Act that mandates tracking group identification and tracking ballot access. The problem is that under PC pressure the ability of people to self identify has been pushed to the point that we are losing the ability to compare numbers over time. This may only matter to graduate students. A person can claim to be, or can be identified by the person answering for the household as anything. Anybody can claim to be Hispanic or not. Anybody can claim to be male or female or not. Anybody can claim to be Black or White or Asian or not. In fact people can claim to be Italians or Russians, or yes I mean this, Martians and report that as their race. Only the traditional choices are offered as examples to select from but the person writing the answers has to record what the person answering the questions tells them. The good idea behind this is that the Census really does try not to pressure people or guide them. The bad thing is that it reduces the clarity and simplicity of the results.
When the subject is Mexico, I have this to say- first of all, Mexico is a feudal state, always has been. The fundamental reason for those from there immigrating here (illegally) is based on avoiding all the paperwork and bureaucracy involved with trying to open your own business there. Then there is the bribery.
I fear not that the U.S. will become communist, because there are no communist states anywhere, only socialist/statist/totalitarian ones.
Illegal immigrants open their own businesses here, avoid any bureaucracy we have, keep what they earn, and can under bid because they avoid the ‘piece of the action’ that the U.S. government gets from legitimate businesses of U.S. citizens. A right proper protection racket, is that. And Illegal immigrants can go on further and take advantage of any government giveaway they have the nerve to show up for, such as health care. There’s been free health care all along for them, as the loophole is that no one, by law, can be refused health care in the country, on the basis of inability to pay. When you go to the hospital, tell them you are from Mexico, they will put away all the paperwork they would otherwise require of citizens and take you straight to see a doctor. Free health care didn’t start with PeloskiCare, its been a legal mandate for decades.
And what the statists who hold the majority in this country want, or will get whether they really want it or not, is a feudal state just like there is and has been in Mexico since it was ruled from Madrid centuries ago.
And to speak in the abstract, what will Mexicans think once they get a taste of the bureaucracy in store for them once they are baited with the promise (the carrot, if you will) of ‘amnesty’? Is that what they really want? To pay taxes on their business? Income taxes? Social security and payroll taxes for employees of their company?
Despite everything, the economy of Mexico ranks pretty high, and there is always the possibility that those here illegally will want to migrate back to Mexico to re-join the economy there, and they will take with them the memory of what it is like to enjoy a kind of economic and business freedom not even permitted to the citizens there (here in the U.S.).
If U.S. becomes every bit the feudal state as is Mexico, or perhaps more so, then what’s the real difference?
Is it possible that those, for whatever sort of unintended-consequences, see the future of being assimilated into, not the (so-called) melting pot, but into the feudal state (of an Obama/Chicago fiefdom) as not worth the bother?
Is it possible that the conservative family and religious values of illegal immigrants will grow to include a conservative economic freedom as a value, as well, when they decide to rejoin the Mexican economy to repatriate and vote?
I say go ahead Obama, push right on ahead for Amnesty- even if you get it, it won’t provide you with any of the things that you are gambling for. It will backfire on you and democrat party, and you will be the loser in your patronizing quest. Illegal immigrants don’t want a whole host of sticks to go along with the carrot of “amnesty” (citizenship). They are not as stupid or gullible as you think, or wish it on them to be, despite your initial “reverse bribery” scheme.
And they posses far more common sense with regards to their own concept of self-reliance than any of you D.C./Chicago Ward bosses will ever know.
36. Lifeofthemind,
FWIW, on the census I put down ‘American’ for myself, my husband and daughter.
Me: 1/2 Finnish/-Dutch/Irish/English
Husband:3/4 Italian/-German
Daughter: You do the math! lol
Are Italians ‘white’?
To be honest, my [now deceased] full Italian Father-in-law looked very swarthy.
Just sayin’!
P.S. I can’t help but wonder if the ‘German’ side of my husband’s family has some Jewish in it because the two eldest brothers look Jewish whereas the two younger brothers (my husband being the youngest of the four) look more like their father. All brothers are atypically tall for Italian men so I figure that’s the German.
P.P.S. The law-abiding legal Mexican immigrants that I’ve come to know are very intelligent and lovely people who have helped our Country be the successful melting pot it is. The people who are trying to escape their own cess-pool illegally are (sorry) not exactly the creme de la creme.
Ashen @31:
“I did my own little survey today. I called about 15 landscaping companies looking for work. The guys with Mexican accents said, sorry, no. Business has fallen off. The guys with no Mexican accent (white guys), asked for a resume…”
Where do you live, that any “(white guys)” are still able to compete in the U.S. landscaping industry? In coastal California, the flood of illegals has completely overwhelmed the landscape, construction, fast food, agricultural, and most other service industries.
In high school I earned money to buy an old beater car working part time at a nursery. No one at the nursery today except for the cashiers and manager speak English without a Spanish accent. There are no more part time high school student employees. They’re all full grown men, whom I sometimes must speak Spanish with in order to be adequately understood.
In high school and college, many of my friends worked in restaurants as everything from bus boys, to waiters, to short order cooks, to pizza delivery. No longer! The only fast food restaurant I see non-Mexican teenagers working at now in my area is IN-N-OUT Burger. Every other fast food joint seems to be almost exclusively staffed with adult Mexicans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Hondurans, etc.
It’s no wonder we’re educating a generation that doesn’t know how to work. Middleclass teenagers in my area used to take part time jobs to earn spending money at the age of 15 or 16. It was a rite of passage, and in many cases, it was the only way young men could convince their parents to allow them to drive. Many youths today don’t have the opportunity to work until they’re finished college and must go out and get a job in order to pay off massive student loans.
In college, during the summers I earned money installing drywall on commercial construction sites. I also helped install carpeting, and worked one summer as a carpenter’s assistant installing roofs. For the last 10 or 15 years no college kids in the S.F. bay area have been able to get low skilled jobs in seasonal construction. All those jobs went to adult, mostly illegal, Mexican laborers who were willing to work for below the local minimum wage, and were ignorant of, or willing to ignore a lot of common safety practices.
I believe a great first step toward restoring our economy would be to ship every illegal alien in the U.S. back to his or her country of origin. I guess that makes me a bigot, even though I’ve been married to a fluent Spanish speaking, native Californian, “Mexican American” woman for the last 21 years, and my children are technically “Mexican American” as well if they chose to utilize that label.
We’ve done our best to emphasis to them that they are Americans of mongrel pedigree, just like most other Americans throughout the 20th and 21st centuries. The only hyphenated Americans they are familiar with are African-Americans, and that’s only because of some particularly loud mouthed parents and children at their schools, who have outsized chips on their overly sensitive shoulders, and who have chosen to set themselves apart from the rest of the community and wave their ethnicity in everyone else’s faces.
It’s time to move past all that.
People where I live, in the S.F. bay area are generally “progressive” to put it mildly. If you are willing to make a minimal effort to fit into society, mind your own business, and act responsibly, practically everyone here will give you a fair shake, regardless of ethnicity or background, or wacky ideas, or tasteless tattoos & piercings, etc.
If on the other hand, you insist on wearing a hijab or burqua to a job interview, don’t expect to be hired unless it is at a Middle Eastern restaurant, and even then not at my favorite Persian café or my favorite kebab restaurant that features belly dancers in the evenings. The owners are interested in running successful businesses, not in making politico-religious statements. Don’t expect the police to treat you like everyone else if you choose to dress like a gang banger and hoot and holler at every attractive young woman who walks past, and speak loudly and filthily in public when crowds of families are within earshot.
If you choose to play “thumpin” rap on your car stereo so loudly that people hear you coming from blocks away, and you replace your vehicles wheels and tires with immensely oversized, counter-rotating, highly polished aluminum rims and such low profile tires that it looks like you snapped wafer thin black rubber bands on your $10,000 rims, don’t act offended when you attract more police attention, and are pulled over more often than the quiet and unobtrusive cars all around you. If you didn’t want the additional attention, why did you invest in the $10,000 plus “LOOK AT ME” signs for your vehicle?
If you don’t want practically everyone over the age of 25 to stare at you, either fearfully, or with derision, why is the rear of your 8 sizes to large denim trousers dragging at the bottom of your buttocks with most of your checkered underwear displayed for the world to appreciate? Buy a belt. Use it.
Sometimes I envy the Japanese! Hell, sometimes after a trip to the mall with my kids I envy the Taliban!!!
Okay, my rant is finished now. I was a little exercised over the excessive hand wringing and crocodile tears displayed by so many politicians and their lackeys in the main stream media regarding the new Arizona law.
One day there will be a reckoning…
“This will all end with guns. Depend upon it.” You may be well right -the real question is whose?
I’ll take the NRA and the US Army over Coalition to Ban Handguns and the ACLU with 4 to 1 odds. I’ll take rustics over civics at 2 to 1.
The solution to immigration is to get the government out of it and turn it over to private enterprise. ONLY allow those with jobs waiting in. Make sure those jobs have been posted long enough so that American have had a chance to fill them. Then have the jobs be filled by employment agencies. Make no distinctions about age, sex, religion or national origin.
Then build a REALLY big wall. Bigger then the Great Wall of China. 30 meters high and 100 meters wide. Use Federal prisoners as labor. Walls won’t stop illegal immigrants, but they will up the degree of difficulty. Know how hard it is to drag a 100 ft long ladder across rough terrain? Plus 1,000 years from now, it will be a major tourist attraction.
My pet peeve is height discrimination. Since I am 5’6″ and reached puberty late, I was always the shortest guy in my class and consequently spent most of my younger years sitting on the bench in all sports events (I played soccer, wrestling, track, lacrosse and even basketball).
My daughter is also short and has spend most of every soccer game sitting on the bench. Meanwhile, a friend of mine who is over 6′ and was a high school basketball star married a tall black woman and his ostensibly aggrieved minority dark skinned daughter is also a high school basketball star and appears set to get many scholarship offers for college.
I personally feel that being short and consequently never having had a chance at being a hero/athlete, I suffered an insidious discrimination that now is multi-generational. I also think that this plays a role in ease of movement up the promotion ladder.
The reason I mention this is not to ask Obama to try to add short-people legislation that pays me reparations, but to explain why it makes me want to go get violent every time I read about these grievance groups and the Democratic party carving out new entitlements for themselves.
41. ConfererateH,
Xactly! Look how many black athletes are ‘superior’ in sports. How unfair! Where’s the PC police?
Isn’t it a gas that ‘diversity’ in this day and age means only removing/equalizing ‘Jewish/Asian/White’ advantages?
Things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmmmm.
ConfererateH @41:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QV_bq3Rz9w
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
C’mon, smile! You guys are the best fighter pilots, tankers and SOF operators. The Mercury astronauts have been called “Golden Midgets”
Big lunks just can’t fit in cockpits properly, and hauling all that extra weight around obstacle courses and up and down mountains in Afghanistan slows a SOF operator down. A pistol, rifle, or other modern weapon doesn’t care if the person on either the sending or receiving end is 5ft. 0 inches, or 7ft. 10 in. It’ll kill them just as dead.
It’s not for nothing that people say: “God created man, but Samuel Colt made them equal!”
I am not as sanguine as Wretchard. In fact, I disagree completely with his predicted outcome when everything fails.
Let us review. Since the late 1960′s, as VDH attests, “No White Men Need Apply.” For more and more positions. Each year, White men must sit in the back of the bus in more and more aspects of life. Now a crisis threatens them disproportionately, and again, we are told no White Men need apply.
WHILE It must be noted, Puerto Rico becomes an instant state to make White Men instant minorities along with unfettered illegal immigration and massive amnesty. As VDH points out, the Federal Government’s ability to NOT ENFORCE THE LAW and make Whites a minority trumps States rights to enforce Federal Law. It is population replacement ala Labor and those who oppose it are bigots.
Constitution be damned. So it will be Damned.
There will be no fight based on a happy, Libertarian colors of Benetton. No Constitutional restoration. Instead there will be TRIBE. Let us repeat that. T-R-I-B-E.
And What TRIBE will do, is ensure that their TRIBE is first. And all others behind them. In the order that they are useful.
Of what possible use is the Constitution? Seriously? The Constitution is a document that is used to protect … non White Men. It offers Whites and particularly White Men … NOTHING. As far as they are concerned, it might as well not exist.
Now, TRIBE will not come out now. Or even very soon. But when money collapses, when NYC is nuked, when trade comes to a stop, when there is a global meltdown and no one gets paid, or the water stops running and the sewage stops being processed and the trash is no longer being picked up, TRIBE will exist. TRIBE already exists, quite nicely, in South Central, in East LA, in Harlem, and many other places.
It will simply exist everywhere else. With the biggest, most powerful TRIBE having its way. The ones with the most guns, military hardware, destroyers, air craft, and such like. Hmm … let me think, what TRIBE could that be?
Nope, the “lucky” solution will be a Cromwell leading a TRIBE, and giving those of the defeated TRIBEs the usual Cromwell solution. Why? Because there is no margin, no safety, no nothing to stave off TRIBE when everything hits the fan. TRIBE is absent in cubicle farms, corporate parks, and other nice places like suburbs and safe suburban malls. TRIBE comes out to play when those places don’t matter because they’ve all broken down. Your average cubicle dweller is if pressed enough by time and circumstance, capable of the same things as your average East LA Gangbanger. Only your cube dweller is likely to have the remains of the US military on his side, and the Gangbanger, and critically, all associated with HIS TRIBE, will be toast.
The idea that we will return to the Constitution, ever, however is laughable. The Constitution does nothing for White men, who will be the ones doing most of the fighting and dying and be asked to be third class (if that) citizens in their own country. Hah! A system that tells the big majority of its men that they are garbage and last in line for everything is not sustainable. It produces in the end, only … TRIBE.
The oldest and most reliable association known to man. And no, TRIBE is not the pastiche of Survivor.
ConfederateH, I am 5’8″ and it never bothered me. Kids in my HS class had generally larger chests and larger lung capacity. Yet, it was me who was representing the school as a 3km and 5km runner. I simply outlasted them all, whereas they were dropping like flies after 2-3 km. I knew how to breathe. I was also skinny and light. That may have helped.
So, I really can’t buy your whine.
I was also good at drawing. Artsy. Not a big talent but decent. I bought some art courses after HS, but it was boring, knew that stuff. Did not last there for long. But there was this guy–must have had some Jap genes, not sure how he (or his parent(s)) ended up in Czechoslovakia. About my age. He started the course too, at the same time. He couldn’t draw worth of damn. I met him in about two years later, he was still going to that school. He showed me his latest drawings. I was flabbergasted. He had there a picture of an old boot. That boot was alive. Beautiful. I told him, you couldn’t draw a crooked potato… how come you are now far better than me? He sketched 2-3 hours a day. As simple as that.
Also, you never know. Imagine that you are standing with your 6’2″ friend somewhere and somebody starts shooting at you both. You both drop down, but because your friend has a longer drop trajectory, he’d get hit, not you. Ergo, being short can come handy some day.
twobyfour@45,
First of all, 5’8″ is average as I recall and I would have loved to have been 5’8″ at the age of 15 when I was probably still under 5′, and anyway perhaps you were more athetically endowed than me or my spawn are. In any case I don’t think that you can seriously argue that short people are not disadvantaged in life any more than highly attractive or intelligent people are not advantaged. Throw in dark skin and 50% negro blood as well as a white vocal accent, and she has a major head start on life over my daughter.
IMO, when you say “Ergo, being short can come handy some day.” you sound like a KKK member explaining why the back of the bus is more comfortable.
ConfererateH/46
Well, I was the shortest one in my class, how about that?
I was not particularly athletically endowed. And wearing glasses, yea that was fun in ball games…
But when endurance was the main feature, I was simply stubborn. No, I was beyond stubborn.
As for you IMO, stuff it, pardon my French. There are all sorts of people with all sorts of handicaps, and yet, some of them excel despite. Because they refuse to be pickled in victimology.
All I am saying is that god works in mysterious ways and one fateful day being shorty may be just what doc prescribed.
And as Armageddon Rex said…
Whiskey,
Ya’ right about tribes. Just a bit off in what would constitute the membership.
2 tribes and if you want to know their distribution and locations, look at the last presidential election county map.
ConfererateH @46:
I weigh around 235 lbs., about 35 lbs. more than when I was in really great shape. I pumped iron and wrestled in high school and college. My wife, well, sometimes she reads Wretchard’s blog, so I’ll leave her weight out of it. Let’s just say she was never twiggy, even at 18 she had wonderful curves in all the right places, and she’s 5ft. 7in.
My daughter is growing into a beautiful young woman. If she’s anything like her mother, or my mother for that matter she won’t be one of these self conscious shrinking violets who are embarrassed because they think their bust size isn’t big enough. What a silly thought…
Although my daughter has many hobbies including playing flute in the school band, singing and acting on stage, Girl Scouts, competitive swimming at the county level, community soccer league, and gymnastics, her great passion is for dance. She is a competitive Irish Dancer, as well as tap, jazz, and ballet. She’s deadly serious about it in addition to loving it. Her dance studio has been to National Finals twice now. Her favorite dance style is ballet, and she’s very good at it.
She has expressed interest in pursuing semi-professional training as a ballerina. This would involve very expensive and inconvenient private schooling:
http://www.sfballet.org/balletschool/school/program.asp
I was skeptical. We told her we would think about it. Before involving our family in a possibly life changing pursuit and substantial investment in time and money we consulted with her current ballet teacher, a very talented retired professional ballerina with the SF ballet. We asked for her frank assessment regarding our daughter’s prospects of becoming a professional ballerina. We were told, as I feared, that although our daughter was very talented, she was very likely to become too large and heavy to work as a professional ballerina. She believes our daughter stands a much better chance at pursuing a professional dance career as either a jazz or Irish dancer since neither of those styles puts such a premium on petite figures and very light total body weight. She pointed out that her blooming figure, far from being a hindrance, should be an important asset in jazz or Irish dancing. Many professional dancers in Jazz and Irish dance pay for breast augmentation surgeries. I doubt my daughter will ever want one of those…
Perhaps your daughter will have an opportunity to pursue ballet, or gymnastics. Perhaps she can become a fighter pilot and eventually an astronaut.
Catherine the Great was only 5ft. 1in.
Marie Currie was only 5 ft. 2in.
Ross Perot: pretty darned short
Phil Sheridan: 5 ft. 5 in.
If you’re really that concerned about your daughter’s height, and she’s not yet finished with her growth, shop around for an endocrinologist willing to prescribe growth hormones. That sounds drastic, but you certainly wouldn’t be the first parent to do it.
Life of the Mind,
On my story about the Census, the notice that a census worker was coming around showed up after the census worker. Perhaps the census worker jumped the gun or someone was late doing their job.
Personally, I do not mind the thought of a government that is friendly and inefficient. I think the government — at least at the national level — is becoming feral and inefficient.
I think the American Community Survey is more of a permanent bureaucracy who goals are — in some measure — political. I am not so sure they are into “file and forget.”
Walt,
I loved your poem. It made me think of the 50s TV series Mama, which I loved, with Lars, Nels, and Dagmar. I just checked Amazon to see if anything had been saved on DVD, but no luck. However, the movie I Remember Mama is available. Did you ever hear about these in your family?
2=4
pity I’m already married
LOL, MC… not sure what got your attention.
Endurance? I am now an oldish decrepit has been.
Art… was fun. Also painted. Oils. One could call it probably surrealism, but I had my own … perspective. I am not sure what was it… chicks… whenever one came to visit my studio and looked at the pictures… they felt compelled to undress and slippity into my bed. Not being particularly a film star material, I were always puzzled and afterward I looked at the pictures and then in a mirror and unable to solve the mystery, just shook my head. But did not complain.
Did a bit of ceramics/pottery too, a good skill to have, may come handy one day.
Seems like another lifetime.
Over here in Blighty the idea that if a police officer asks you for papers then, unless he has reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime (our equivalent to probable cause), then you may decline and tell him to be about his business, is cherished.
It is one of a suite of ancient common law rights which continues to be robust in the face of assault from authoritarian institutions – I’d cards have been seen off.
The idea that, so long as you obey the law and pay your taxes, then you are not answerable the State persists and BTW is why we do think we are better than the French and Germans who won’t go out without papers. I have had French and German friends visiting London for whom it simply did not compute when I told them that it really wouldn’t be a problem if they walked out of the house. Like trying to explain vegiterianism to a waiter in Spain “so Senora would like to try some of our beautiful jamon serano? Or the salt roasted sea bas que?”.
I strongly believe that common law systems are intrinsically superior to civil law ones. It is in my DNA, and I live my life on the footing that I am free to do anything which is not expressly forbidden by law rather than in Germany where the presumption is that every thing is forbidden unless expressly authorised by law. Switzerland is anomolous; everything which is not prohibited is compulsory.
Re the thread below the developments in English politics now are compellingly dramatic. My theory is that the Labour Party died on Wednesday, and about time too. We might not have a tea-party thing going on – frankly not a very British way of going about things, we’ll leave that sort of thing to the excitable colonials. My other theory, and I am by no means a tory, is that we might, just, have the next leader of the Western world in David Camaron.
Whiskey, you need to lighten up, take a chill pill, buy a bottle of single malt (Isley man myself). I nearly fell of my chair laughing when I followed your link. I mean poor woman, however stupid she is, your heart goes out, but it was still hilarious.
Papa Ray – the situation in Mexico is terrifying. Some of the depradations of the Cartels begger belief, they are in the same nihilistic zone as AQ and the Nazis and they appear to be winning. Awareness of this tragedy on this side of the pond is negligable which is worrying because the cartels have footholds in Europe, the bridgehead, as you would expect, being Spain. I think to date when they have tried to set up shop in London they just get executed. My suspicion is the Met sub-contract it to one of the Eastern European crews.
Tony
Discrimination and discernment are close consorts, and should not be demonised. Learning can be acquired relatively quickly, wisdom usually takes time.
Should read “walked out of the house without their passport”
Subotai #19:
The best summary of the situation I have ever heard.
Thank you.
But might I also assume that the law enforcement authorities in Arizona will not be so lavishly supplied with manpower that they will even have the option to pick out “greasers” randomly for special interrogation?
As for myself, I am very poorly equipped to understand the “outrage” problem. While in the military on any installation, even while in uniform, I had to be able to produce an ID instantly and my vehicle was subject to search at the whim of a two striper. To gain entry to one of my nearby workplaces I have to produce a special ID badge and have it examined by a man carrying a submachine gun. All of this ramped up greatly following 9/11/01. I just can’t understand the problem.
Besides, can anyone tell me how we can have Universal Health Care and a national medical database if people can’t be required to show their ID? These protests are in the same category as the women who want their driver’s license photo taken while their are wearing a burqua.
2=4
I think your discourse and your black humor must have been for sumthin for the chicks, and not your brush skills, anyways, they wouldn’t have been for me, I am a harsh critic of Arts ! that I practiced for a while too, in your Japanese friend manner, yes, like musicians, graphists need practice, but not only, they must have something to express and to witness about. As far as I was concerned, I considered painting or carving (I was more on that) as a “sacred” profession, not like the “maudit” painters of the end of the 19th century, but like the middle-age and or the caverns’s ones, not fashionable in our contemporain society ! So… I focused my energy elsewhere, guess !
Ugh, sorry for the other typos – typing on the move on a BlackBerry.
MC, maybe. I admit that my themes had some of the dark humor subtly hinted — humor was one of the ways how to get back at the regime.
I did a bit of restorations of old paintings (churches and private collections — 18th and early 19th century) and that influenced my painting style. No “maudit” stuff, was simply not my thing. Hieronymus Bosch was my remote (timewise) mentor.
RWE, Besides, can anyone tell me how we can have Universal Health Care and a national medical database if people can’t be required to show their ID?
Ohmy! You asking progressives to apply logic! How dare you!
An interesting event was told to me by a family member. The family was eating at a local restaurant when the son [with four years of Spanish in school] ask the waiter in Spanish to speak to the Spanish manager. The son now works at the restaurant and is paid in cash each week. We are American’s arriving here in 1620. So maybe this story is about the future.
Relevant to nothing and everything.
Or as they say:
Massive spill prompts White House rethink of coastal plans
On our conference call this AM, it was mentioned that this “Crisis” is really very convenient to this Administration, not only in the wake of Obama’s promise (limited to his whim) of actually letting drilling be considered off the coasts of the U.S.
Which none of us believed in the first place.
Eleven dead, several injured, billions of dollars of equipment at the bottom of the ocean, and now…
Massive ecological damages looming over the Gulf of Mexico and the Gulf Coast of the U.S.A.
What result could be better for the democrats and Obama’s Mob?
I guess we will have to just stay tuned, because I don’t think that all of their handiwork has been played out yet.
Papa Ray
confederateH wrote: “IMO, when you say “Ergo, being short can come handy some day.” you sound like a KKK member explaining why the back of the bus is more comfortable.”
aww, pipe down, shorty.
and if you don’t i’ll just hold my hand on your head while you swing your little ewok fists in the air.
TonyB @ 54: “My other theory, and I am by no means a tory, is that we might, just, have the next leader of the Western world in David Camaron.”
Unfortunately, the English Tories are “led” (to misuse the expression) by David Cameron.
While Camaron might indeed be the leader the Western world is waiting for, Cameron is Tony Blair without the moral core, or Gordon Brown without the charisma. David Cameron is just another wimpy Big Government empty suit of a self-serving politician. An anti-American Europhile to boot, who has already reneged on his cast iron guarantee to offer the Brits a vote on the Lisbon Treaty aka Euro-Constitution.
The only place that David Cameron is going to lead the Western World is deeper into civilization-ending debt.
2=4
http://mysoupis.blogspot.com/2007/12/souvenirs-souvenirs.html
Richard #61:
Another variant of that story:
About 8 years or so ago a woman and her family had eaten at a restaurant in Michigan. On the way out, as they were paying the bill, there was a group of people at a nearby table chatting in Arabic or something like that.
The woman made a remark to the effect that if people were going to come live in the USA they ought to at least speak English. One of the restaurant employees then followed them out to the car and wrote down their license number. The woman was charged by the authorities with “hate speech” or something on that order, was convicted, and forced to pay a fine.
I don’t know about y’all but I would have permanently exited the state of Michigan at that point.
This sort of thing goes on and some people are concerned about asking for an ID when there is probable cause to suspect the commission of a crime?
#62 Papa Ray
Yes–what timing. And why are we sending SWAT teams to the oil rigs? And of course, there are foreign interests who want to do drilling near Cuba (like our “friends” the Chinese).
It will be interesting to see what turns up.
The Aussie Visa Interview tale reminds me of my own experience some years ago with the American consulate in Frankfurt, West Germany. I was being transferred back to the States after a six year tour in Pirmasens and I was bringing something with me in 1987 that I had not shipped over in 1981 – a French wife (no comments please, Marie Claude). I was warned many times of how difficult it would be to get her a visa on our first trip because the German clerks always found something wrong with the paperwork. Sure enough, after an appropriate wait in the waiting room, we were called forward so this German local national could examine our application. Now, as a lifelong anally-retentive bureaucrat, I like to pride myself on dotting i’s and crossing t’s, but this woman kept finding all sorts of incredibly minor “errors” in our paperwork, to include my wife’s photo because she had a strand of hair over her ear…SACRE BLEU! When it was all over, we were warned that our documents would likely not pass scrutiny when finally examined by the consulate officer who would have to actually approve the request. So, with some trepidation we approached the American GS-11 with our marked up application, only to find she was cut from the same bureaucratic cloth as moi – she glanced over the documents and said, to the horror of our German screener, “looks good to me.” Whereupon she signed the form and we went on our way – all of which perfectly summarizes the stereotypical difference between American and German bureaucrats, which I found was not so stereotypical after all.
And, when it was all said and done, my wife was told that, as a legal alien, she had to carry her Green Card with her at all times, so I don’t see what the fuss is about Arizona’s new law.
don’t forget that working for cash (unreported) is also the only way to get out of the Soial Security tax/boondoggle that no one young will ever see a penny of.
Not that I’m advocating this, but eventually the legal burdens of doing business in a society become so high (as they already have in Mexico and most of the 3rd world) that the only functional and effective economy is the one that is underground and illegal.
When capitolism becomes criminalized, all of the best capitalists are criminals.
By the way, I think all this brings up a point that occurred to me the other day.
It is really not about Big Government Versus Limited Government. Everyone hates Big Government. No one looks forward to a trip to the DMV or filling out their tax forms. People don’t seek out nice chats with their friendly neighborhood IRS, FAA, ICE, DHS, DOT, FBI, and EPA representatives.
But some people want special privileges, rights, and considerations for their own group and they don’t want to have to go through Big Government to get them, either. The guy who lives next door to me is an American Indian. When he has to go to the emergency room because of chest pains or a possibly broken arm he tells them he gets to go to the head of the line because of what he is.
It’s not about Big Government versus Limited Government. It’s about people being given special rights and benefits, and they want them without having to wait in line or fill out forms, too. The Big part comes from implementing all these desires, not from a love of bureaucrats or their processes – except for some people employed by government.
The furor over the Arizona law is an example of this. They want the government to provide all sorts of things, to arrest people for making comments about language, to prosecute ranchers who shoot illegals invading their homes, to provide free health care and food, but not to step on their own toes while doing it.
21. jWarrior
The Clintons made it clear to the Civil Service that promotion depended on ‘promoting diversity’. The diversity mafia is now rising to the top of the Civil Service as all the old White guys retire.
…..
I worked as an IT contractor in downtown DC in the 90′s for such agencies as HUD, VA, US Customs. What you saw is what I saw too. But not just that. There would be diversity/minority employment offices on every floor. The representation consequently of blacks and Hispanics on staff was many orders of magnitude higher than their representation in the general populace.
39. Armageddon Rex
I believe a great first step toward restoring our economy would be to ship every illegal alien in the U.S. back to his or her country of origin.
….
I believe that if the US sent back 10-20 million Mexicans to Mexico it would set off a revolution there. However, out of the great pain would come a much better nation–why? because the Mexicans that are forced back will insist on the rule of law in Mexico. There for they will be positioned to take advantage of the new water and energy technology the US will be producing in the next 10 years. Collapsed costs of desalination and water transport will make it possible to triple the habitable size of Mexico.
Yes–what timing. And why are we sending SWAT teams to the oil rigs? And of course, there are foreign interests who want to do drilling near Cuba (like our “friends” the Chinese). It will be interesting to see what turns up.
What’s interesting to me is that I haven’t seen a single article that even speculates as to WHY the explosion happened. Wouldn’t there at least be theories at this point? Yet I can’t seem to find anything. I’m wondering about sabotage myself. Oh sure, maybe that’s paranoid, but we live in paranoid times.
W: maybe the Louisiana spill is a good thread topic in the near future. I’m sure there’s a lot of expertise in Belmont land about the technology used.
Nazism in Arizona?
Yep! The brown Nazis smear there re-fried beans swastikas on the state capitol, support racist La Raza (the race) and the seditious Nation of Aztlan!
If it walk like a duck…
Delia:
I don’t fundamentally disagree with you.
We must not reward criminals.
We must not reward Mexican imperialists who seek a “reconquista”.
We must not reward racists who seek to create “Aztlan” in the United States.
We must defend our borders.
The reason I brought up the idea of an “open door” policy is this – if, God forbid, Amnesty does go through, I would rather let in 120 million people who would obey our laws than selectively reward 12 million people for breaking our laws. I see an “open door” policy as a fallback position that exposes the racism and criminality of Amnesty supporters.
Would we be swamped by an “open door” policy? Yes! The problem is that we would be just as swamped by Amnesty. The difference is that Amnesty would be an open door policy that rewards criminals while selectively keeping out people who obey our laws. If Mexico tries a land grab, I would rather let in millions of new citizens who would bear arms to defend the United States than selectively reward Mexican imperialists.
We need to tighten enforcement against employers of illegal immigrants and integrate legal status into the process for applying for jobs. I also like the idea of ensuring that the wages of illegal immigrants are no longer tax deductible, with the Department of Homeland Security, the Social Security administration, and the Internal Revenue Service working together to ensure that employers don’t profit from hiring illegal immigrants. (Okay, I watched Representative Steve King’s speech on C-SPAN last night…)
Ronald Reagan wasn’t perfect. He made a big mistake when he signed the first amnesty into law in 1986, which set a horrible precedent for now. We can do better.
Charles @72:
I agree. The likely result of sending back the 20-35 million illegal aliens who crossed into the U.S. from Mexico would be a civil war there. Especially since it would deprive Mexico of one of its principle revenue streams. An untaxed, unregulated revenue stream that directly benefits the poor families who receive cash and wire transfers from their relatives working illegally in the U.S. Living standards for the poor in Mexico would fall off a cliff!
I’m not so sure a civil war would result in a better situation for everyone. I think it’s likely the semi-industrialized “cowboy” north of Mexico would break away from the largely agricultural and even poorer southern states.
Also, if the government falls apart, with a largely unarmed population, the strongest player left on the field, assuming Uncle Sam kept out of it for the most part, would be the drug cartels.
The U.S. would have to become involved to a greater or lesser extent to ensure Venezuelan and Cuban influences didn’t seize control and to ensure the entire failed state didn’t become a giant narco-syndicate.
What fun….
What irks me the most is the media assumption that being anti-illegal immigration is identical to being anti-immigration.
It’s like saying an anti-rape policy is identical to an anti-sex policy.
Charles @ 71, jWarrior @ 21 –
On this theme re: diversity and civil service — Last year the wife lost her job and was unemployed for a while. She applied to many government positions, local ones (state, county, city). She’s a 2nd generation Indonesian American, a rather dark-skinned Asian who, around here (I live in the South) gets mistaken for black. She’s also a native of this county, having been born here and lived every day of her life here except for a four year in-state soujorn at college and a handful of vacations. She didn’t qualfiy for any job offered by the local govt here, though, because every single one she went for required bi-lingual capability in Spanish. Now, there’s no law here which mandates Spanish speaking for these jobs, but a policy seems to be in place that makes it so anyway. To get a job in this county, they prefer you’re a native of Latin America. Locals need not apply.
This just in:
Are there going to be massive demonstrations in Chicago on May Day..?
You have to ask?
Oh..then there is this:
Dems spark alarm with call for national ID card
Show us your papers!
Papa Ray
“those who were Mexican American and African American had very good chances of entering Ivy League or other top graduate schools from Fresno, those who were women and Asians so-so chances, and those who were white males with CSUF BAs very little chance, despite straight A’s and top GRE scores.”
Affirmative Action is one aspect of Cultural Marxism; otherwise known as “Political Correctness.”
“Both economic and cultural Marxism rely on expropriation. When the classical Marxists, the communists, took over a country like Russia, they expropriated the bourgeoisie, they took away their property. Similarly, when the cultural Marxists take over a university campus, they expropriate through things like quotas for admissions. When a white student with superior qualifications is denied admittance to a college in favor of a black or Hispanic who isn’t as well qualified, the white student is expropriated. And indeed, affirmative action, in our whole society today, is a system of expropriation. White owned companies don’t get a contract because the contract is reserved for a company owned by, say, Hispanics or women. So expropriation is a principle tool for both forms of Marxism… Affirmative action is part of it. The terror against anyone who dissents from Political Correctness on campus is part of it. It’s exactly what we have seen happen in Russia, in Germany, in Italy, in China, and now it’s coming here. And we don’t recognize it because we call it Political Correctness and laugh it off. My message today is that it’s not funny, it’s here, it’s growing and it will eventually destroy, as it seeks to destroy, everything that we have ever defined as our freedom and our culture.” Bill Lind – The Origins of Political Correctness
http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/
One of the arguments never invoked about the immigration problem in Mexico is that it is a deadly one — for MEXICO. The United States is effectively allowing itself to be used as a relief valve for Mexican problems, both economic and social. The supposed benefits Mexico recieves (the remittances) are only temporary in nature. The long-term downsides for Mexico are grave, however. First, let’s face it, most of these people who have come here are not going back. This constitutes a mass demographic exodus which is going to have a pouplation effect in Mexico. We have witnessed a large scale transfer of human resources from Mexico to the United States. Already many Mexican villages are experiencing a lack of young, able-bodied men. Such situations only impoverish these communities but also compound Mexico’s lawlessness problem, rendering such communities easier prey for the cartels and strongmen. Furthermore, by shipping it’s populace out of country, Mexico escapes the natural pressure that would come to bear on fixing its multitude of internal problems. If Mexico’s people face gnawing problems that hold them back, they need addressing. Shipping them off north is not addressing them, it’s a dodge.
A while back I was standing in a little village in Mexico as the sun went down and what struck me was how marvelous and stunningly beautiful the place was. I thought to myself how could it be that a man would trade life here for the hell of standing on some corner lot in front of a 7-11 in some anonymous American suburb, begging for day labor? But, nevertheless, that’s what it had come to.
It’s not natural, and it’s not very good for either Mexico or the United States.
Okay, I must be missing something here because it seems to me pretty obvious what the objection to “papers please” is.
The objection isn’t to asking for papers per se, the objection is to selective asking for papers and the criteria for the selection.
I just went for a run I didn’t have any papers on me. Would the Arizona police have stopped me? I don’t think so. Why? Because, in spite of my name I don’t look like the stereotype of an illegal alien. Who will they stop and ask for their papers? People who look like illegal aliens. Are all people who look like illegal aliens, in fact, illegal aliens? No. Do all people who look like illegal aliens, but in fact aren’t, have papers proving their citizenship or legal residence? Probably most do, but not all?
Should people who look like illegal aliens even though they are not be required to carry proof of citizenship? That’s the issue. Not discriminating against legal aliens but discriminating against U.S. Citizens on the basis of their similarity in appearance to illegal aliens.
Why isn’t that clear that, that is the issue?
76. Armageddon Rex:
Well at least we could face it head-on militarily. They would be exterminated very quickly by our forces and none too soon. The Mexican people would eventually be better off were this to happen as you describe. Revolutions are often bloody but necessary.
82. Greg Marquez:
The law will not allow police to ask joggers, or anyone, to ask for papers unless they are committing a crime. Even without the new law, if you were jogging in an area close to a house that had just been reported for a break-in and you fit the description, you would likely be approached by a police officer and asked to identify yourself. This is nothing new and does not discriminate on anyone. If that happened, you showed the officer a driver’s license with a local address and he thanked you and sent you on your way- would you care? Tempest in a teapot?
It is about whether or not we are a country of laws and whether we enforce those laws consistently. Why is it you can not understand this?
Are all people who look like illegal aliens, in fact, illegal aliens? No.
No, not “all,” but the VAST majority are. Please, don’t play this silly game. Everyone knows where the illegals are in their neighborhood. I can take you over to certain blocks where pretty much everyone is an illegal, with the exception of the plethora of anchor babies (who should be illegal, but that’s another story).
It really isn’t hard to spot them. And I’d bet that even if you DID randomly stop them (which I am fully in favor of) you’d get ten illegals for every person with papers.
This Census talk reminds me of the 1990 census when I was in colledge. I responded that I was Martian, and got a reply from the Census asking how we breathed, what color I was, and if I liked Earth…
Too funny.
#24 Armageddon Rex
That would require being a lawyer. While I was Pre-Law in college, my career was interrupted by my first marriage. I ended up in law enforcement, and having seen enough lawyers to realize that Komodo Dragons have a higher sense of morality and ethics than members of the bar, I am kinda glad it ended up that way. There is no surprise that most politicians are lawyers.
As far as preparations, I note that you said later in the thread that you live in the Bay area. That is a tactically and strategically impossible base to operate in when the organic waste meets the rotating airfoil. I will give you the same advice I have given a daughter who lives there. Have a planned fallback position outside the metro area and be ready to bug out, preferably at the first sign of things going stupid and not get caught up in the mass panic.
Large cities are by their nature extremely unstable entities and not survivable in a crisis that interrupts any of the myriad inputs required to make them work. Further, the Bay Area is an enemy [TWANLOC] stronghold, which means if there is any counter-action, it is also a target, a particularly vulnerable target. Y’all don’t want to be operating in the middle of a bulls-eye that is also busily collapsing of its own weight around you.
In addition to whatever personal plans you and yours have for fight or flight; debt is not a good thing. Although it is way late in the process, try to limit your vulnerability to debt. Right now, I would keep my cash assets in Credit Unions rather than banks, as Credit Unions did not get at all caught up in the real estate collapse and are stable. They have not been taken over by the Federal government yet, and therefore there is a chance that you might have a short period where you can get your money if the Feds try to start seizing assets. No promises as to the worth of that money.
Nobody knows what, if any, the triggering incident will be. All I can say is that the government can bring enough force to take out any individual or family. Just as wth what happened at Merriam’s Corner in April 1775, the future will be determined by how people react; not when only they themselves are facing government coercion, but rather what they do when it is their neighbor on the block, the guy a few streets down, or across town. If those on the receiving end face things alone, you will too. There are implications about preparations there too, if you so decide.
Keep as friendly a contact as possible with local law enforcement officers [I know, that is more a small town thing as I don't think in cities most cops actually live in the communities they serve]. Overtly or covertly remind them that their oath is to the Constitution, not the government.
Similarly, and critically, our military is made up of our kids, our families, the neighbors. Make sure that they know that they are OUR protectors, not the regime’s; and that we depend on them to fullfill their Oaths, that they are not required to obey any illegal or unconstitutional orders under the UCMJ.
If you are a business owner, you have to do what you have to do to survive in the face of government opposition. Speaking personally, IF I had a business I would add to the background check for prospective and current employees a check of voting registration. Not all Republicans are friends of Liberty, by any means. But the overwhelming majority of Democrats are enemies of Liberty, if only by the actions of the party they support. Why hire, pay, or promote someone who is on the other side. If unemployment is going to rise, let it be the enemy that suffers. Layoffs could have the same filter, if it is possible for your company’s survival; however some key personnel may be on the enemy’s side. Similarly, IF IT IS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE, which it may well not be, check out your suppliers. If they are supporters of TWANLOC, look for suppliers who are neutral or patriots if it is economically feasible.
This check of the voter rolls brings up another point. Copies of the voter rolls may come in handy if the SHTF. It may be needful to decide where the loyalties of someone lay. Registration is one significant indicator. Lists of Democrat Party officials would also be handy for the same reason. If they take on the job of overseer for the Democrat “Massa”, they have made their choices.
Beyond the realm of what the individual can do, but still a good thing; would be having observers at TEA Parties, or other demonstrations. Patriot observers would have the job of covertly being on the lookout for those who are pretty obviously not media [and since such things do fit the Narrative, media coverage would be minimal] who are taking pictures of speakers and participants. These should be photo’ed, taped, etc. themselves covertly and if possible followed afterwards. Their vehicles and license plates should be photo’ed and traced. That could be the useful beginning of an intel chain to be followed if needed. It would be a good thing to know which organs of state security were watching and which individuals were doing it; be they official, or SEIU/ACORN/OFA or other Democrat party thugs. The information may prove useful later.
#44 whiskey
Yes, there are tribes. With the exception of some of our visitors, I think most of us are GRAY TRIBE, and there are a few Sheepdogs about. In the end, that is the tribe that will count.
#53 twobyfour
Did a bit of ceramics/pottery too, a good skill to have, may come handy one day.
If there is a Long Night, that would be a most handy skill. We take for granted the availability of watertight containers for storage, transportation, or cooking. If things go pear-shaped, that and/or baskets will be downright handy. Further skills beyond farming and the basic building trades/mechanical skills would be field expedient medicine, the making of black powder, and distilling. That last is not only for recreational purposes [albeit that is not a bad thing] but alcohol is a good way to store the value of surplus agricultural production for trade [the real reason for the Whiskey Rebellion in our history], and as both a sterilizer for medical procedures and as a solvent for chemical and other processes.
#54. TonyB
One reason that resistance to the State is strong in the West is that we are closer to the Common Law in our areas. But, and it is a big but, in our country as in yours; statutory law over-rides Common Law. I agree with your preference, but I note that much of your past Common Law has been destroyed. Labour, if they get in [and to be honest it will likely happen regardless of who wins May 9, because it is such a useful tool of state control] will almost surely revive the internal passport ID cards they dropped a few months ago. And unless a new government repeals the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Act of 2007, you are already living in a nascent functional dictatorship. That Act allows any government Minister to enact, amend, or repeal any British law with only a signature without reference to Parliament or the Crown. I agree that Brits are not TEA Party types. I wonder, especially with the narrow choice of Parties that you have in reality [a fault we share] how you can hope to save yourselves, since if y’all won’t stand up in the streets you are not likely to pull a Wat Tyler/Jack Straw/John Ball type rebellion or a second English Civil War? That was not a slam, that was an honest question I would be interested in hearing an answer to because I look nervously at Britain as a possible precursor to our fate.
#67 Tcobb & #73 peterike
I admit that I have as little data as everyone else. And I am more than willing to modify any conclusions upon receipt of reliable data, and I hope to hear from BC-ers who are in that particular field.
I am a cynical bugger. I am not a trusting person. And it has been some time since it has been possible to grant an automatic presumption of good faith to the actions of our government; which situation has been exacerbated since January 2009.
There are anomalies that need to be explained. As I have noted before, you look for anomalies as starting points in investigations.
1) Up until recently, Buraq Hussein Obama, his regime, and the Democratic Party have been adherents and evangelists of the Left’s theology on Energy. They have opposed not only offshore oil drilling; but also any domestic fossil energy production that would increase the supply of energy available to this country and reduce our subservience to this country’s enemies. This was hard wired in.
2) A couple of months ago, out of nowhere, Buraq Hussein Obama came up with a very limited proposal that might, decades in the future, allow for some minimal offshore oil drilling. For which he was praised by some for showing some moderation.
3) Suddenly, for a reason that may be perfectly understandable, but may also have other causes; one of our most advanced offshore oil rigs, burns, explodes, and sinks; with a major oil spill in progress.
4) The Federal government, in addition to everything else sends SWAT teams.
5) Buraq Hussein Obama, with the approval of the media which is gearing up to cover the effects of the oil spill 24/7/365, today reversed his proposed policy.
6) And as noted by peterike, there is absolutely no public information or speculation in the media as to possible cause; when the norm would be exactly the opposite.
One angle to look at this, would be cui bono; who benefits? Obama got a press op to look reasonable, and now has the basis and support for a further push to cripple the American energy industry and supply. Why the reported SWAT team and today a team from the Justice Department? Their function is to overcome armed opposition [not a problem on a sunken oil rig], take control of a site, and to control the chain of evidence. Given that the first two are inapplicable, one has to look primarily at the third.
Given recent history, it is unheard of for the Federales to act illegally, commit entrapment, or falsify evidence. The index of suspicion has to rationally remain high. cui bono?
Add to that, the atmosphere of the times, wherein the regime is just short of being at open war with the population. And for some reason, as an example of how far the regime may be willing to go as far as evidence is concerned, I have to remember something from the last couple of days.
A month ago, the Feds arrested a supposed “militia” group called the “Hutaree”. They are accused of being a right wing group planning to attack police. They may or may not be. They are being held without bond, which is reasonable if there is enough evidence that they pose a threat.
What bothers me a bit is that at the bond hearing just concluding, the person who has headed the investigation for two years told the judge that he could not remember any details of the case, and the evidence presented to the judge has been questionable at best.
U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts has repeatedly challenged the prosecution to show that what they [the Hutarree] have done meets the definition of “imminent lawless action” a key condition under a 1969 U.S. Supreme Court ruling on “seditious conspiracy” and how it was not covered under First Amendment Free Speech protections.
Federal prosecutors are claiming that they do not have to show any imminent danger, just encouragement.
And the Sedition Act is a topic that regime mouthpieces have been bringing up for the last couple of weeks in reference to any opposition to the regime.
I don’t know if the Hutaree are guilty or innocent. But this high profile case is not making me any more trusting about other Federal investigations, especially those which have … anomalies.
Subotai Bahadur
76. Armageddon Rex
I’m not so sure a civil war would result in a better situation
……..
Yeah, I think there would be blood in the streets as a result. Maybe more than there is now. But there is a reasonable argument to be made that some of the returnees would return with the kinds of skills and entrepreneurship that would propel Mexico forward. All would return with the experience of better government than they would/will receive in Mexico. That memory will not go away easily. People will want to replicate it–even as they curse the USA.
GM:
Are you telling me there aren’t any illegal immigrants from Ireland, Poland, China, Nigeria – or Canada?
If the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States are Mexican, we need to consider whether Amnesty would be a form of discrimination in favor of Mexicans and against non-Mexicans.
I oppose racial profiling. I am confident that our court system will determine whether the Arizona law sanctions de facto racial profiling. Moreover, when I leave my house, I carry my ID at all times. I also carry the keys to my house.
Two hundred years ago, the federal government routinely required American traders to obtain government permission to enter western territories. The federal government also didn’t hesitate to evict British traders from American territory – and that was during the Monroe administration. During World War II, railroad conductors routinely asked passengers their place of birth.
The question is not whether the federal government or a state has the right to ask people for identification. The question is whether the State of Arizona is under siege.
@ Tony “My suspicion is the Met sub-contract it to one of the Eastern European crews.” Yes well Mexicans have always been better at shooting unarmed types than dealing with armed opposition, whether it be Texans in 1836 or from the nastiest residents of Londongrad.
This just in:
“Arizona Legislature Passes Bill to Curb ‘Chauvinism’ in Ethnic Studies Programs”
Dang, Arizona is completely out of control, the liberals are going to really blow a gasket over this.
No more bashing whitey’s, no more ethnic chauvinism, no more encouraging “minorities” to rebel against the gringo, no more encouraging blacks to put down “the man”.
What are all those now out of work ethnic studies teachers going to teach now?
American History?
Nah…
Papa Ray
This just in:
“Arizona Legislature Passes Fixes To Immigration Law In Response To Critics”
Jeez, just after a couple of days they are making changes. What might that mean for the next couple of months until the bill becomes law?
It sounds like a lot of pressure from “critics” caused these changes. But who were the Critics? You suppose that some “Chicago style” Critics were involved?
Developing…
_____________
87. Subotai Bahadur
You layed out some good advice and show insight past your years. I thought it was just us old guys who thought of some of the things that you laid out.
Reference the Gulf. Like I said: “I guess we will have to just stay tuned, because I don’t think that all of their handiwork has been played out yet.”
Papa Ray
Subotai @87:
“That is a tactically and strategically impossible base to operate in when the organic waste meets the rotating airfoil”
You are correct sir. The answer as you said is to get out of Dodge when things look like they’re no longer safe to stay and / or aren’t going to recover anytime soon. One good thing about living near the bay is that it provides a convenient mode of transportation that will never end up in permanent gridlock as cars packed with panicked, ill prepared urbanites run out of fuel on jammed freeways as they try to flee to the Sierra Nevada foothills or no longer so verdant fields of the San Joaquin Valley. For added fun, anyone who does get out will be forced South and East by natural barriers. I’m assuming the many bay area bridges will become entirely impassible due to sustained gridlock a few hours after any uncoordinated evacuation begins. That means most refugees will end up in either the marshes of the Sacramento delta, or some barren, dry territory already occupied by many small to medium cities, probably with just what they can carry on foot or push in a wheelbarrow or stroller. The population is just so huge and tightly packed that I have no doubt that a million or more will perish from dehydration or starvation in a spontaneous evacuation, within a week or 10 days. My plans include a trusty, easily handled 21 ft. sailboat. My family and I will sail out through the Golden Gate at night, tides permitting, towing one of our sea kayaks loaded with stores and sealed up, and head north within sight of the coast for several nights, laying up at predetermined beach campsites each day, until we turn up a certain watercourse where we have property and a great deal of cached equipment and stores buried and locked away in a 40ft. brown and green painted (ghetto camouflage) steel shipping container. Our bugout location is remote, far off paved roads, and the easiest way to approach it really is from the watercourse with a short hike thrown in for good measure. The watercourse is sometimes utilized by canoeing enthusiasts and often by fishermen, but the bar where the watercourse meets the ocean is often a dry sandbar at low tide, and is usually less than 2ft deep at high tide. Any boat larger than mine will probably never make it over the bar except during the winter rainy season and high tide. I’ve never seen a boat bigger than our 21ft. sailboat on that particular watercourse, and the handful of canoeists and bass boat fishermen stared at us like we were a Viking long ship that had mysteriously been transported to their remote fishing spot. Our stuff is over 100 yards from the water, and on the other side of a wooded hillock, so it’s very unlikely it is even known about by anyone except the local fish and game warden, and maybe not even him! The roads are so rough and remote I haven’t even had the Mexican Mafia set up a temporary meth lab on our bugout spot yet, which is unoccupied about 50 weeks out of the year. The easily accessible direction of the road that does run by the property washed out one winter several years ago and hasn’t been repaired. I’m just lucky I got the shipping container in there before the “good direction” of the road disappeared. The other direction requires a real 4×4 for a stretch of several miles, including a really bouncy portion of the trail that runs in a rocky seasonal creek bed. The trail / road frequently requires a chainsaw to get through in winter and springtime as pines limbs and trunks blow down across the road frequently. That’s not usually a problem in the summer and fall. We usually get up there for car camping three weekends a year to clean things and rotate perishables, and to fish! I sail up and back once each summer in the sailboat. In past years it’s been a family sail camping experience. Now it’s just the son and me. The girls would rather drive the jeep over the rough trail for a single day road trip instead of a multi-day sail camping extravaganza. I think it’s using the chemical toilet aboard the sailboat they object to the most.
At any rate, our bugout spot is within easy kayak distance of the ocean, so if the dung connects with the rotary oscillator, I’ll put my bow fishing skills to use on the many sea lions and seals that seem to delight in steeling the fish I usually shoot with my bow fishing rig when I’m up there. Their populations are pretty healthy now, and I doubt there are many folks out there with the specialized gear to hunt them successfully if everything goes to Hell. Also, keep in mind that I expect the state human population to half or perhaps quarter in the first few months, so there’ll be far fewer folks poaching yummy marine mammals than you may believe. God willing, we’ll be living the Ohlone lifestyle; supplemented by the supplies we already have up there. I’m fairly comfortable with our bugout plans. The only fly in the ointment is the possibility of a winter bugout. Sailing a 21ft boat up the coast in winter sucks! There are a couple likely interim bug out spots much closer to home I need to provision so we could stay over there awaiting favorable weather for up to a couple weeks if necessary.
I hope your plans are as thoroughly thought out and practiced.
The Big Alienation
Uncontrolled borders and Washington’s lack of self-control.
I gotta say, I find the survival talk totally fascinating. But me, I got my own plan. When things go mental, my plan is pretty much to die. I’m a lazy type, and let me tell you it makes planning much simpler. Maybe I take a few TWANLOC with me, maybe I don’t. Whatever.
And then we’ll see what comes after.
You know, on the oil spill. There’s now a bubbling up of people asking about the timing, including Rush Limbaugh, who is also now being savaged about his comments, for daring to ask.
But something else just occurred to me. In addition to slamming the brakes on any new oil drilling, this spill has effectively eliminated Sarah Palin from contention.
Already, the Left’s assault machine is bringing out her “drill baby drill” comments juxtaposed with oil spill shots. They found the stake to her heart. She’s over.
And drilling for oil has now become, instantly, socially unacceptable and beyond the pale. If you say “drill baby drill” you are now certain to be an outcast, and the Republicans have lost a valuable campaign issue forever.
Funny how such an unlikely accident has had nothing but positive effects for Team Obama.
peterike,
Do you really think Marxists would resort to murder?
First speculation I’ve seen on the oil spill cause. Possibly a failure in a process called “cementing.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703572504575214593564769072.html
And more:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704423504575212031417936798.html
#92 Papa Ray
You layed out some good advice and show insight past your years.
Just curious, but how old do you think I am?
#93 Armageddon Rex
Wo3 de5 ma1 he2 ta1 de5 feng1kuang2 de5 wai4sheng5 dou1 !!
Sir, I am deeply impressed. The only thing that I can see that you did not mention [perhaps purposefully] was making sure that your sailboat is safe until you can get your family aboard. I assume that you have that covered. Well done.
Subotai Bahadur
Apologies for the long comment. Because I am new here to the community, I feel like I should lay out what I am thinking about things. Pithy does not come naturally to me. I look forward to (hopefully constuctive) criticisms of my immigration views from the great communnity here.
Immigration enforcement needs to reform. The question is how…one side wants no real border or enforcement….they want more poor dependent-on-government voters. What the other side (right…in both senses) wants is less clear. Lots of proposals, across the full spectrum of ‘not enough’ to ‘way too much.’ There are a (very) few who in fact want to round up and immediately deport every illegal immigrant. And IMHO that wouldn’t really practically work. But the left are fans of using it as brush to paint anyone who doesn’t support open borders as a racist.
I would propose several inter-related things based on the following principles. First, recognize that the objective should be to document and background check every immigrant to America. Post 9/11, we cannot afford to not know who is coming into our country. The second would be to not reward those who broke our laws over those who obeyed them. The third is to not cause significant economic disruption in the process. Fourth, it should be a benefit, not a drag, on America. I know it is a political non-starter, but I believe we should immediately identify and document the current illegal immigrants, gradually phase them out with a tax on employers, and institute a new, global, temporary worker (not immigrant) program.
Protecting the border is important, but not sufficient. There needs to be a serious fence, but the magnet of jobs is so strong as make the desire to find a way through, around, under, over or whatever is necessary almost overwhelming. We need a good fence, but we also need to lessen the need/desire to sneak through it. Given the current border and legal situation, if I was a poor peasant in Mexico, I would be derelict in my duty to my family if I did not come to America to take a minimum wage job here. My kids, even in some of the worst schools in America, would be massively better off than back in Mexico. So there needs to be a crackdown on employers; but not one so devastating that it causes economic destruction worse than the illegal immigration itself. As a matter of fact, employers may even be lured into supporting it if it is done right.
The left is fond of pointing out that we can’t just put them all on a bus and deport ‘them’ …and they are right. But we didn’t need to put them on a bus to import them either. When the jobs go, so will they. I think the legal proposals should be as follows:
1) All new hires require proof of work eligibility. Penalty for violation is punitive and disastrous. With unemployment where it is, businesses can get legal workers. They may have to pay a little more…but not much.
2) All existing employees require re-verification of work eligibility within 2 years. Any ineligible (illegal immigrant) workers need a background check. Get the criminal illegals out immediately, give a little grace period to the ones whose only crime was coming illegally. If their background check is clear, they are given a temporary work card. The price of the temporary work card for former illegal, newly legal, employee is a tax. 10 cents per hour worked, doubling every year it is below $1/hour, 50% increase every year above $1/hour. Modest in the beginning, but businesses currently dependant on illegals will see they have to change their business model and have time to replace their workforce. Immigrants would see the writing on the wall and leave when the tax bite is too much. And workers are ineligible for any new job…when their current job goes away, they are unemployable and ineligible for any benefits. Any criminal activity (DUI, misdemeanor etc) and the temp work card is invalidated, deportation begins. Employers required to withhold the tax, and notify the ICE/BP when the employee is terminated. Employers who comply with this (check, and with hold the tax) face no penalty. Employers who violate this (continue to pay undocumented workers under the table, or shave hours from the withholding etc) should face harsh civil and criminal penalties comparable to tax evasion.
3) Start a federally controlled, diverse, unskilled foreign labor system to help businesses manage the transition. More on this below.
America does need some unskilled foreign labor. Not as much as we have, but we do need some. And it should be diverse. There are literally hundreds of millions of poor people through out the third world who would love to pick lettuce in Cali’s central valley (if it can get some water). Would you rather pick lettuce in Cali, or be a desert goat herder in Mongolia? A Dalit (untouchable) beggar in India? In a refugee camp in Chad after escaping from Sudan? All would gladly hang drywall, or mow lawns, or pick lettuce for enough to live on (very modestly) and send a couple of bucks a day home. And they would do it for less than most current illegal laborers. What we need in our unskilled foreign labor is some diversity. And anyone who says otherwise is a racist.
America has very large, indeed unsustainable, fiscal deficits for the foreseeable future. Put them together, and we should charge for the opportunity to work here. We can’t practically charge them for coming, they don’t have the money (and it would be ripe for corruption). But we can, and should, charge them for the privilege of getting to be here. In taxes. For the new workers (and only workers, no family members, no dependants, no immigration advantages) there should be a tax. Something like $3/hour, plus 10% of anything over $20k/year and 50% of anything over $30k/year. Maybe something even higher for all new arrivals when unemployment exceeds a certain threshold. High enough at the low end that American unskilled workers have a distinct advantage over foreign labor, steep enough that it is not used for skilled labor, but low enough that if there genuinely is a need for immigrant workers for jobs, they can be found. Taxes are on pay, so take home can be lower than minimum wage. Employers must provide catastrophic care health insurance to workers hired through the program.
Even on such terms…it would be very appealing to someone whose village in the Congo was just burned out…again. As a matter of fact, it would probably be so appealing, it could be used as a form of diplomatic award. Do something we like, say vote the way want at the UN, we give you an allocation of 5,000 jobs in America. Or as a way of helping after a disaster. Capital city leveled by earthquake? You get to send 10,000 workers to America for a while. Their remittances would likely be far more effective than any aid filtered through (and siphoned off) most NGOs.
Most people don’t realize how (relatively) wealthy Mexico is. It does suffer from massive wealth disparities, because it exported what would be its middle class. Mexico is about twice as rich, on a GDP/capita basis, as Turkmenistan, or the Ukraine. It is about four times as rich as Mongolia or India, and five (Nigeria, with oil) to ten (Uganda)times as rich as most of subsaharan africa. And then there are the desperately poor…like Burma or Nepal, but also the war ravaged countries who economies have so imploded that the comparison is nearly meaningless. For example, according to the CIA factbook, Mexico is 26 times as rich as Liberia, and 44 times as rich as the Congo. The point is not that Mexico is rich, but there are a huge number of people who would desperately like the opportunity to do the crappiest of our jobs…and for far less.
Some might respond that we should be helping our near neighbor. I agree. But I think the best thing we can do for them is give them their most ambitious workers back. Mexico desperately needs a middle class, and they would return with enough wealth, and understanding, to demand political changes and a reduction in corruption. That said, I have no issue with giving an outsized allocation of the opportunities to Mexicans. But it should be perceived as a favor, not an entitlement, and it should benefit the US instead of costing us.
One of the keys is that the disassociation of unskilled labor from immigration. The workers, if not the jobs, should be temporary. Something like 5 years, maybe with a 5 year extension upon the appeal of the employer (perhaps with a significant fee to keep the same person). It should not be families and dependants…workers only. No attached schoolkids. Probably have at least a modest English language requirement as well as a health screening. Most workers would be able to save enough to live pretty well (or enough capital to start a good business) when they get home. Employers applying to hire from the program can be required to post enough for a return ticket and provide health insurance during their stay. Those workers, just like the current illegal workers, should not have any immigration advantages. After their time is up, they go home. And if they want to come back as an immigrant, they can get in line just like anyone else at that point.
In my view we should encourage immigration. A lot of it. But there is relatively little overlap between the immigrants we want to attract, and those we need for unskilled labor. Immigration to America should be based on benefits to America more than need of the immigrant. We want immigrants who want to be Americans, who embrace our ideals, and who will be net contributors to our society. We want these future Americans to be scientists or engineers or serial entrepreneurs…we want landscape architects, not lawn mowers to join the ranks of America. We want immigrants who will make America a better place, not those who just want to come to America because it is a better place.
96. peterike
Its also the case that the arizona law was precipitated by an illegal crossing the border, killing a well liked rancher, and crossing back across the border.
100. Daedalus Mugged
There are a (very) few who in fact want to round up and immediately deport every illegal immigrant.
……
Count me among those who want all the illegals rounded up and deported.
This is the last chance. Failure to do so will enable the crony fascists to run the country South American style pretty much forever and into the ground. The country will be so disestablished that there will be no one to stop Moslems from coming over from Europe in Mass when the Europeans kick them out. That will at last rip the country apart.
Contrast that to the virtues of returning illegals to their home countries all over the world. There will be better government all over the world. Everyone but everyone’s back will be straightened up.
The age of massive immigration (legal and illegal) to the United States is over. I do not want any Muslim immigration – their religion contains a totalitarian political ideology which is opposed to the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights. We needed massive immigration in prior ages – when the nation was young and underpopulated – but times have changed. I do not want my children and grandchildren to live like ants in an overpopulated ant colony – that violates the individual’s God-given right to the pursuit of happiness. American overpopulation will of necessity usher in totalitarian government.
Charles,
Even you skipped the immediately. Was it deliberate?
The timing of the explosion on one drilling platform in the Gulf of Mexico which is NOT under the direct control of Russia, Cuba, China, Mexico, North Korea, or some other country eager to see the decline of the U.S., is extremely suspicious. Western safety standards, training, union rules on working conditions, OSHA, etc., are far more stringent than are the rules for all those other countries. For such a disaster to happen just as Obama has made a big gesture claiming willingness to consider opening up offshore drilling CAN NOT be mere coincidence.
Further, as others (Thanks, S.B.) have pointed out, the foot-dragging response seems conspicuously intended to allow a disaster that could have been avoided by our government, which was fully aware of the event from the beginning.
The Reichstag fire may have seemed to some contemporary folks to be an obviously staged excuse for a take-over, but most of us only grasp its significance with the advantage of history and hind-sight. And anyhow, a general “take-over” can just as surely be advanced by a number of smaller events, each one incrementally setting in place another in a series of shackles on our freedoms.
Back in September, BP had announced the discovery of a 3BILLION BARREL petroleum reserve in the Gulf of Mexico, at a depth of 35,000 feet, some 250 miles southeast of Houston, Texas.
Wouldn’t want anything to make gasoline less expensive for the evil, racist, dangerously independent US consumer, would we?
This just in:
Pinal County Sheriff’s deputy shot in desert confrontation
I question the timing…
Papa Ray
104. Daedalus Mugged
Charles,
Even you skipped the immediately. Was it deliberate?
…
No but then I don’t understand your point. Both defending the border and immediate deportation are technically easy if there is the political will to do so. Americans have been lied to point blank on this for many years.
I agree that the greatest gift that the USA could give Mexico would be the return of their skilled entrepreneurial prosperous middle class–with their money–but they’d have to take back their lower and criminal classes too and figure out how to deal with them. So would every other country have to take back their illegals.
Frankly, I think this mass deportation of illegals would be the greatest gift the USA could give to the whole world–along with becoming a net energy exporter byo converting trucks & busses to natural gas –which would make the dollars sitting in banks around the world –a hard currency. The last thing the US is already doing in its research labs–collapsing the cost of water desalination and transport–which will make it possible to deliver cheap water to deserts all around the world — and turning them green.
If the next president is republican–likely there will be a great push for energy independence. But the next couple years look to be very rocky. I don’t know what will happen on border policy. The democrats ability to inflict massive damage on the union will decline after the fall elections. So the next couple months will be crucial.
The problem with your slow attrition approach is that events may be moving faster than your solutions.
I think the oil spill will (although it is an ecological disaster, locally) turn out to be a very good thing indeed. Ecologically and in terms of geopolitics and possibly even for the long-term future of humanity. And why is that? Because it slams the door on the “drill, drill, drill” approach to energy independence.
And why is that a good thing? Because it will force development of other energy sources – some of which are there for the taking (nuclear, wave); some of which need a little engineering development (algae biodiesel, OTEC); some of which need some research money spent (focus and/or Polywell fusion). And some of which need very serious investment but with a titanically huge return (SPS). Such a situation is also going to concentrate minds wonderfully on approaches that work or might work, and away from wastes of time and money – tokamak fusion, wind and ground solar.
And energy independence by any of these means leads to the value of oil becoming a great deal less than it is; which does not apply to the “drill drill drill” approach. And thus cuts down the money tree whose fruits are terrorists and jihadists.
This is a pie-in-the-sky dream, perhaps (no way of knowing); but consider a turnkey aneutronic fusion reactor with a parts cost of a few thousand dollars and capable of supplying the power needs of an average-sized house or a large truck. What would the large-scale ready availability of something like this do to global jihad?
FC, BS, only real breakthrough would be if cars were running on water. You can’t scale bio-diesel up to cover the demand. Until then, drill, baby, drill. And pellet based reactors.
It is nice to dream about other things, but until you have something on hand, you need to cover the basics.
dedalus mugged @100
Since 1929 illegal entry into the United States is a federal crime, up to six months in prison for the first offense and 20 years for the second offense. Hiring illegal immigrants carries a maximum penalty under federal statute of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
The Immigration reform package promoted by John McCain, Ted Kennedy and all, covered many of the issues you raised. In the section headings of the bill the language sounded a hopeful note of common sense. Unfortunately in the body of each and every section, without exception, the exact opposite of common sense was proposed as law. It was the first of many monster sized bills that were tied up with ribbon in committee and which the politicians in DC attempted to pass into law without the benefit of citizen input.
It revealed the deep disconnect of the political class in DC from the rest of the nation. I certainly do not trust the current federal government to fix anything more than hair and makeup.
I applaud the Arizona law. It is clear in its language, intent and scope, especially now that the term “lawful contact” has been defined. And all it asks is that the laws of the United States be upheld. What a concept.
I also believe that the Arizona law while a great start, will not be enough to stem the tide of migration, with all its troughs and tops, breaking on US shores. Southern Mexican economics and our drug policy need to change. Taking the unjust rewards out of the hands of the criminals is IMO THE major obstacle to getting a handle on migratory patterns.
PR at 106
I question the timing…
I question the value of the drug cache left behind by the shooters. Someone will not be happy tonight. But I couldn’t be more happy for the officer, to have survived the gun battle of that proportion, with only a flesh wound.
Linda Chavez questions the timing too. There is some real debate as to whether the numbers of illegals is increasing or decreasing with every rumor of amnesty.
Charles,
The ‘immediately’ was the point of the extremity…there are those who demand immediate deportation for all, right now, consequences be damned. I think it should be a gradual and controlled process, but it could be accelerated or slowed based on circumstances, but the end state of those who came illegally leave remain perfectly clear.
WDYMITH,
I agree, I have difficulty trusting DC with much. But the whole point of their obscuration was to avoid the result of gradual departure of all who came illegally. Their purpose was to figure out how to get them to stay…not how to get the illegals here to gradually leave and prevent any new illegals. I too applaud the AZ law, other states, especially border states, should adopt similar bills. But one of the few responsibilies our Constitution gives to the federal government is defending our borders…states, even all the states, can’t do it alone. States can contribute to the solution, but the feds are necessary…as much as I distrust them.
Wretchard
For those who don’t accept the morality of it, the real challenge is not to get mad but to get politically even. It’s worth a thought anyway.
I don’t believe it is possible to count coup or keep track of bodies. How could anyone possibly know when they are “even” politically, especially when the opposition is not about getting even but getting revenge?
112. Daedalus Mugged
But one of the few responsibilities our Constitution gives to the federal government is defending our borders…states, even all the states, can’t do it alone. States can contribute to the solution, but the feds are necessary…as much as I distrust them.
The contribution of Arizona in this case will be to drag the feds into compliance with the enforcement of their and our own laws. The president Obama will have to make someone other than the citizens of the United States or Israel unhappy this time. I am uncertain if he is up to it.
Too much Legal Immigration, already!
Most Americans do not know just how many legal immigrants we let in each year. The Department of Homeland Security just issued their statistics for new legal permanent immigrants in 2009. Last year, we issued 1,130,818 green cards, the fourth highest year since 1914. From 2000-2009, we issued over 10 million green cards, the highest decade of American history. Currently, there are 38 million immigrants, 24 million of whom are in the workforce. This does not include temporary workers. DHS did not release the 2009 figures yet, but they issued 912,735 temporary employment authorizations in 2008.
Most of these immigrants are low skilled and from the Third World. Less than 10% of new green card holders are from Europe. People of extraordinary ability, investors, and immigrants with advanced degrees made up less than 8% of the new immigrants.
Faced with these numbers, how can anyone argue with a straight face that we don’t admit enough immigrants?
—
Turbeaux said,
That’s absurd. It is impossible for illiterate and unskilled workers to become contributing and productive members of American society. Not only that, but they are also not compatible with America society. Wow, only 8 percent of new immigrants are actually qualified.
The Arizona Hysteria
Racist! Nativist! Profiler! Xenophobe!
“Finally, legal immigration should be reformed and reflect new realities. Millions of highly educated and skilled foreigners from Asia, Africa, Latin America, and Europe are dying to enter the U.S.
Rather than base immigration criteria on anchor children, accidental birth in the U.S. without concern for legality, and family ties, we need at least in part to start giving preference to those of all races and nationalities who will come with critical skills, and in turn rely less on the social service entitlement industry.
They should come from as many diverse places as possible to prevent the sort of focused ethnic tribalism and chauvinism we have seen in the case of Mexico’s cynicism.“
Daedalus Mugged # 100,
The problem involves not only the economic and criminal aspects, but also a cultural clash. North American and Hispanic cultures just are not very miscible. And the Mexicans do not seem willing or able to assimilate. There are probably some Canadians living and working here illegally, but because they blend in so transparently, who can tell. Or care. That would change if vast numbers of Quebecers were to start pouring across the borders, taking American jobs, demanding that we should accommodate their French dialect, and changing the character of our cities. Granted their effect on cuisine might be somewhat better than the plague of Taquerias. This is a clash of cultures. Importing legal unskilled labor from diverse parts of the globe would make things even worse. Exhibit A is the Balkans.
It would not be necessary to expel all illegals, immediately. If we succeed in expelling the largest and most visible portion of them, the effect will to make an inhospitable environment for the rest. Most of the rest will feel unwelcome and unsafe, and will self-deport. A small percentage, a very few will assimilate by speaking English, scrupulously obeying the law and conforming to our customs. And that would also alleviate the problem.
Someone above mentioned sabotage.
So I ask all of you, what possible reason would the administration have to send SWAT teams to the rigs, if there were not an indication that this was?
Who would do this? The list is long. Accident or no, this has ruined a lot of our our food supply, and will raise the price of energy, along with making new drilling offshore US an impossibility for a long time to come. Note China, Viet Nam and others have not stopped drilling in the Caribbean.
On Friday evening there was a caller on the Mark Levin radio show who was on the drilling platform when it exploded. He described the events that led up to the accident and said it was caused by highly pressurized gas coming up the pipe and settling over the rig. At that point a single spark was all that was necessary to set it off.
He stated categorically that it was an accident and not sabotage, and that he wanted to put those rumors to rest. Levin said that he was able to independently confirm that the caller was who he claimed to be.
Three reforms will be needed to solve the illegal immigration problem.
1. eliminate the anchor baby condition created by the XIVth Amemndment,
2. the apportionment of Congress must be based solely on the number of citizen voters,
3. establish that after 90 days visa violators are the same as illegal entrants.
The first two changes will require an Amendment to the Constitution. The first could in theory be achieved by an Act of Congress subject to judicial review or repeal. There would be no security in using such an approach that would be subject to cancellation by the courts or a future Congress.
To eliminate the anchor baby problem it is worth the trouble of changing the Constitution. There will be synergistic benefits to such a change. Much of the destruction that besets our society manifests itself in rising rates of out of wedlock births and unstable family structures. These problems are now manifest across almost all economic and social groups. An interlocking web of political alliances contribute to building support for government policies and political coalitions that are hostile to what are seen as the traditional mutually supportive structures of capitalism and the monogamous nuclear family. By refusing to recognize a child of an illegal alien as a citizen and decoupling the pressure of sexual politics from immigration politics the momentum would shift away from those seeking to radicalize American society. The decision to have a child, or engage in sexual activity that can produce a child, is not a purely personal choice since it can produce a future member of the body politic. We do not want to create a society where permission must first be obtained from authorities before engaging in sexual conduct. The current campus PC speech codes that seek to regulate communication between young men and women come perilously close to such a system. We can however regulate conduct by establishing different consequences for behavior engaged in between consenting members of the community and those engaged in with people not members of the community. Barack Obama’s father was present in the United States on a non-immigrant visa when he married Stanley Dunham and fathered Barack Junior. Obama Senior would have been ineligible for an immigrant visa and naturalization because he was a polygamist.
Under the current law anchor babies can be used to qualify a rippling wave of relatives for immigration ahead of other applicants. Those who are crowded out by the family unification model, designed by Ted Kennedy, may have a greater desire and ability to contribute to American society.
I would support wording for an amendment that established that citizens are persons;
1. born to two parents both of whom are citizens,
2. born to parents one a citizen and one a lawful permanent resident or national,
3. individually naturalized by Congress, with each Senator and Representative restricted to submitting five
candidates for naturalization each day that Congress is in session,
4. naturalized after at least 5 years as lawful permanent residents,
5. naturalized after completing a term of at least two years of honorable active service in the armed forces,
6. born outside of the United States to a citizen and a spouse eligible for naturalization through a marriage
that has endured at least two years,
7. born to citizen as a result of an unlawful assault within the United States that was reported to authorities within
30 days.
Persons born in the United States “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” and ineligible for citizenship should be United States Nationals, like the people of American Samoa, and should not be able to vote in federal elections or serve on federal juries while residing within the US proper. Under my proposal such persons would be eligible for naturalization and their children could be born citizens, if one parent was a citizen.
The need to amend the Constitution to restrict the decennial reapportionment of Congress following the Census to considering the number of citizens eligible to vote who are resident within each state follows from a flaw in the construction of the XIVth Amendment. The relevant sections of that amendment are;
The “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause in section 1 exempts children born to; foreign sovereigns, ambassadors, on foreign warships, and to camp followers of invading armies. While that may be seen to include the children of millions of illegal aliens it would be better to close the anchor baby hole with a clearer statement. The wording of section 2 was designed to punish States that were preventing former slaves from voting by threatening to reduce their representation in Congress. I do not believe that clause has ever been used. After the Civil War no one considered the possibility of illegal immigrants having an effect on the apportionment of Congress. There is no way to correct this problem without a new Amendment to the Constitution.
My third proposal follows from an anomaly in the current situation. Persons who evade inspection by CBP at a border Port of Entry are in criminal violation of the law and are subject to immediate deportation. All that is needed is to establish in an administrative hearing that the person in question is indeed someone who was not lawfully admitted and that they are not entitled to the full range of rights accorded to a citizen or person lawfully admitted. Persons who are temporarily paroled into the United States, for example for urgent medical treatment, are not considered as lawfully admitted and are also subject to expedited removal. Persons who do enter through a port but overstay their visa are in civil violation and are subject to detention and removal proceedings but they are not criminals. More to the point since they were lawfully admitted they enjoy the full range of civil rights of any United States person under the XIVth Amendment. This means that the presumption of innocence and need to exercise due process makes every effort to remove someone who violates the terms of their visa an extremely lengthy and expensive process. My proposal would strip a person who violates the terms of their visa of those protections after 90 days. There would be synergistic benefits between this policy and the effort to reduce the anchor baby and associated family unification problems.
There is some theoretical synergy between the hearings used to determine the status of illegal entrants who are subsequently subject to deportation without the full panoply of rights and expensive legal apparatus and the hearings that were proposed under the Bush administration to determine the status of persons detained as unlawful combatants and subsequently subject to indefinite detention without the benefit of the protections accorded to either defendants under domestic criminal law or to Prisoners of War. That may explain the eagerness of partisans of the Left and their supporters among the legal community to conflate the various categories of illegal aliens and accord full protections to all while also conflating the status of captured terrorists with traditional POWs and then granting them the privileges of defendants under American domestic law. Ideally not only would these categories of illegal or fraudulent entrants and unlawful combatants be denied the benefits of rights accorded to citizens and persons lawfully present and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States but similar status hearings would be used to determine the status of pirates who would then be subject to expedited punishment.
For my proposal to work it is essential that those supporting it embrace legal immigration. The United States should welcome all of those who love it, understand what makes it a beacon of liberty and creativity and generosity, and who seek to strengthen it.
To be blogged under the title “Citizenship.”
Rurik #117
You are right that the culture clash is a significant part of the problem. But I believe my proposal addresses your concern. The problem is not ‘Hispanic culture’ miscibility with American culture…the problem is that there is any foreign culture attaining critical mass in our country. By diversifying the sources of foreigners (not simply choosing a different favored country, but getting a mix from all over), we do not overwhelm the stew already in the melting pot.
To continue the metaphor, right now we are dumping 5 pounds of powdered taquerias into a 5 quart stew. What would make it better is less taqueris, a dash of that delicious Ethiopian sponge bread, a little mongolian BBQ, maybe some Nepalese yak Mo-Mos and some more Indian Masala and I can’t even think of a Ugandan dish, but I bet there is something good we could add a little of. The point is to not overwhelm the base all American stew with any spice, but add a small hint of a lot of different flavors.
Lifeofthemind @120:
Bravo:
I like nearly all of what you propose.
Which congress-critter can you approach to introduce the bill now than Tom Tancredo is no longer lending sanity to that once august body?
Daedalus M, ,
I certainly agree with your perception that an essential aspect of the problem is any one alien culture achieving critical mass in this country. Fred Reed made the same point a few years ago in an essay about ethnic tolerance. In the first sage, a lone immigrant, a Latvian cod farmer, a Georgia Black sharecropper, or even a Martian, arrives in your community, and is welcomed with warmth and curiosity for his exotic ways, and he in turn tries to explore and conform to the ways of your community. He learns your language because there is none with whom he can exercise his native tongue. In Stage Two the alien is joined by more of his kind and they become an ethnic “community”. So long as their community spirit manifests mainly through ethnic restaurants and an annual folk dance festival, they will continue to be loved. But when their numbers grow larger, they will begin speaking their home language and practicing some of the old home manners. Some of these inevitably will be incompatible with the natives. During Stage Three, the New ethnic group becomes assertive and insists on its standards and customs. It demands co-equality or superiority. Somewhere along the way, you cease to love the new ethnic group and derogatory ethnic slurs develop. It seems the aliens from the fourth planet do not like being called “Martians” and demand to be called by a term from their own language, even though it is unpronounceable by earthly tongues. Eventually, this third stage settles into mutual loathing and group dislike. Ultimately, some members of your community will decide the aliens have more right to your community than do you.
However, I reject the solution of trying to find a widely diverse immigrant pool as a way of preventing critical mass. Too many of these cultures will be incompatible with our own, and even with each other. Hint: Do NOT invite an Armenian and an Azeri to the same party; or remember the horrid riots that happened in 1989 when the Soviets thought they could settle Azeri refugees in the Fergana Valley among fellow Turks from Central Asia. In any case, Mexicans would still achieve critical mass because they are numerous and near, with only a wadeable river for a border. Only if there is an effectively sealed border in place can the problem be prevented. And then other solutions are really no more than trimming. How much unskilled labor do we really need? Even less I suspect, if we take the reasonable but unfashionable steps of defying the luddite environmentalists and breaking the power of over-reaching big labor union cartels. The statistics I have seen suggest that the old stereotype of illegal migrant farm workers is outdated. Far more of them work at the trades of “Welfare Farmer”, or “Undocumented Pharmacologist”.
LOTN 120 and Armageddon Rex 122,
I also join in the geeral approval. that was a masterful piece of homework. We need you to be involved when the official ammendment is eventually crafted.
LOTM, I also want to add my approval, I think our thoughts, while different in emphasis, overlap in in principle, and are complementary. Well said.
Rurik,
I have actually been at a parties with several caucus factions, including Armenian, Georgia, Azeri and Kurd. No fisticuffs broke out. All of them were assimilating to America, and all realized they were but a very small minority, even at the social event, and the dominant culture would tolerate nothing harsher than glaring. The key is keeping the new immigrants focused on assimilating into our culture…and choosing immigrants who want to assimilate.
I agree that Mexicans have achieved a critical mass, and those who broke our laws to be here need to eventually go away. Those who came legally are welcome to stay. I don’t even address Americans of Mexican heritage…they are Americans. A fence is necessary, but not sufficient. We must address employment enforcement. No fence could stand between me choosing to be a drywaller in Colorado over campesino in Mexico. We must eliminate the drywaller option for the fence to be effective.
But we still need drywall hung. That is a job Americans will do, but for a few bucks more than an illegal. But we also need strawberry pickers…and very few citizens are willing to do that back breaking work at anything approaching a wage that would simply eliminate strawberry farming and force us to import all our strawberries. For that…we import the labor, but not their dependants.
regarding importing labor for field work. What is wrong with employing the kids to harvest Berries etc? As a boy here in the Northwest I picked Strawberrie,Rasberries,Beans Etc after getting out of School. A young person could work up to field boss or driver and as i did,even become a hoer,this gave me spending money for the summer and clothes for School the next year. I also learned a bit about the growers efforts and picked up a bit of a work ethic to carry over to the hay field and other jobs as an older boy. Just sayin,it wouldnt hurt the kids now to do a little labor in the fresh air and sunshine.
#119 rickl
Your post turned what I was going to put as an O/T back into the mainstream. Please feel free to chime in. To Gordon and I believe Papa Ray who have commented on the oil platform fire:
This morning I was on the phone to a friend of mine who lives in Houston, while he was en-route to San Antonio. More on that trip below. My friend is an LEO, not an oilman; however having been born, raised, and lived most of his life in Houston; oil production is something he has grown up with. That is, of course, a limited bit of expertise, but he speaks offshore oil rig better than I do.
He described the talk he is hearing, and there is a “Hounds of the Baskervilles” aspect to this. One, normally the media and the Left would be expected to be screaming like ruptured Bann Sidh about how the evil oil companies deliberately skimped on environmental precautions to make more exorbitant, filthy profit. Dead silence. Second, there are reports, not confirmed, that there was a crew exchange just before the explosion and that there is some question as to the identity and qualifications of some of the new arrivals. This last is, to put it mildly, subject to extreme scrutiny. Finally, my friend ran down a list of safeguards against both any fires and explosions, and further safeguards against leakage if some mishap occurred. It was a very long list, and I know that I did not catch them all.
Bad things do happen, despite the most stringent precautions. But does anyone have any idea of the odds of the failure of all these multiple, redundent safety and leak prevention systems? I will gladly accept any information on these matters.
Just in passing, my friend mentioned encountering a huge convoy going the opposite direction he was. It was of about division strength, and composed almost entirely of logistics support elements, air defense, and very large numbers of the radars solely used for counterbattery tracking and fire. All the vehicles were unmarked, but were in brand new desert camoflage, and all vehicles were either new or refurbished. It was an interesting mix of elements, and we were more than passing puzzled by their intended deployment. Middle East was a given, but on what side and with what mission.
Subotai Bahadur
DCH. If Americans are willing to do it, I have no issues with it. But depending on kids afterschool is a pretty poor business model. If it works, great. But I don’t believe it would.
Factually, I tried to find a neighbor kid to just mow my lawn. I used to mow lawns for a little spending money. I am unwilling to contract it out to someone using illegal labor on principle. I cannot find a local kid to do it. And I tried. I tried hard…several parents were even unwilling to entertain the notion of their little Graydon pushing a lawnmower. I don’t know your age, or maybe the northwest is changing slower than the northeast…but it is a different world from when I was a kid. So I mow my own lawn…even though I would be willing to pay quite handsomely to avoid it.
Good luck finding someone to pick strawberries these days.
127. Subotai Bahadur
Like you I’m not in the drilling business, I skipped the normal West Texas route of being a roughneck by going in the Army. But I have lived in the middle of the oil patch almost all of my life and for the last several years drink coffee with those whose whole lives have been oil.
The general take here is that not enough info has been let out to be able to get a real handle on what happened. It is aparent that there was an explosion and if it wasn’t a blow out it was something large and very powerful because the crew stated it was. The rig was was a discovery rig not a production rig was outfitted supposedly, according to what has been published, with the latest blowout preventer which has to be tested they believed every sixty days. It is true that the rig didn’t have the “remote” to activate the BOP which can even be used from the rescue boats to remotely tell the BOP to close. But many stated they are not widely used.
There are BOPS that instead of closing valves as such have huge hydraulic ram shears that crimp and cut the well casing. It is not believed that was used on this rig. As everyone knows this BOP and it’s backups for some reason didn’t work – even if they did – only a few weeks earlier when tested.
So it is a mystery and it has cost billions so far and eleven men’s lives and most likely cause billions in eco-damage and law suits.
As I said, no one is saying it with any kind of certainty but they have suspicions just as some of us do that something is rotten in the Gulf and that we may never find out what really happened. Even if the rig and associated gear (tons upon tons and then more tons) are at great expense, brought up and examined.
Mainly because after a few months of exposure to the salt water forensics will be near impossible.The BOP most likely never be raised.
There is talk that they are building a giant containment dome to lower over the wellhead with attached valves, pipe and such to recover the oil in that manner. Nobody in my local group had ever heard of it being done in real life before. Most agreed it was worth a shot.
It’s doubtful that any of it will be recovered, except sometime in the far future when undersea salvage has become one of the planets main industries and has giant robots scavenging the ocean seafloors extracting the treasures of eons past. Of course, when this rig is salvaged it will be sold for nothing but scrap value, it’s history and importance forgotten.
I’m sure that every crewman that survived will be questioned for months by every agency known to man.
I hope that those eleven rest well in God’s house and their families fare as well as possible.
Papa Ray
Daedalus, You are correct to point out it is in fact a different world today from when we were kids. The Northwest in some ways has changed more slowly than the rest of the Country but is none the less much different from the late 60s when I was a young buck, which is as it should be. I feel your pain in the search for a legal lawn mower , Im lucky to have a Grandson who between practice for 3 sports a year and holding a 3.80 GPA helps me with yard chores. But looking around at other kids at his School or the mall I agree that these days one would be hard pressed to get any hard work out of many of our Youth. But without the availabilty of an illegal to do this work I think more Youth could be encouraged to make money and learn work ethic and the value of their efforts just as we did. As American as Apple Pie, Just like the Man said. Respectfully Submitted.
As a Spanish speaking young American, I empathize with the Mexican people even as I recognize that what the pro-amnesty crowd wants is to rush all the Mexicans who arrived illegally to the head of the line, ahead of those unlucky souls persevering through our legal immigration maze from Kinshasa to Kiev. And that is why I reject it, because we’d be telling every legal immigrant that they were suckers, they should have just entered illegally and held out for citizenship after several years. Deep in my heart there is a temptation to show up at one of those rallies and unfurl huge banners saying, “Basta Reconquista! Mexico ama uds. solamiente cuando estan en el Norte!” and “Por los Mexicanos Todo, y por Los Otros Imigrantes Nada?”
“People of extraordinary ability, investors, and immigrants with advanced degrees made up less than 8% of the new immigrants.” We must find a way to increase this percentage. The current J visa structure for example, which forces the most educated to return to their country of origin, is absurd. It basically means the best and brightest grads, unless they can find an employer to cough up $20k for an H-1B, go home to benefit India and China’s economies with the fruits of our research universities.