The LA Times reports that President Obama plans to freeze spending to help ease the financial crisis.
embedded by Embedded VideoTo counter the soaring federal deficit, which polls show is a major factor in voters’ discontent, Obama will announce that the budget blueprint he files next week will contain a “hard freeze” on discretionary spending that lasts through 2013, an effort his advisors liken to the fiscal discipline average families impose on themselves every day.
YouTube Direkt
He sounded different on the campaign trail, but there’s nothing wrong with admitting to mistakes. However, if the President decides to go through with his health care “reforms” as currently envisioned the freeze will mean nothing. Freezing expenses won’t pump the water out of the bilge. Plus, closer analysis shows that the “freeze” applies to items controlled by Congress and don’t amount to much anyway. ABC News reports:
The spending freeze, expected to be proposed by Obama during the State of the Union address on Wednesday, would apply to a relatively small portion of the federal budget, affecting a $477 billion pot of money available for domestic agencies whose budgets are approved by Congress each year. Some of those agencies could get increases, others would have to face cuts; such programs got an almost 10 percent increase this year. The federal budget total was $3.5 trillion.
The freeze on so-called discretionary programs would have only a modest impact on a deficit expected to match last year’s $1.4 trillion. The steps needed to really tackle the deficit include tax increases and curbs on benefit programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.
Obama was once contemptuous of “across the board” freezes. Watching the Senators McCain and Obama again after a year and half, one realizes that it was unrealistic to think that government was capable of fine tuning anything. The “scalpel” may not exist. Either the government gets things generally right or generally wrong. It’s too huge an organization to adapt itself very much. So either government goes decisively for deficit reduction or it doesn’t. The idea it can finesse things may be be unrealistic.
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will anyone care? There’s hardly any point in saying “too little, too late.”
“He sounded different on the campaign trail…”
You’ve hit upon this administration’s epitaph.
wws: Did you mean “tombstone”?
This bunch keeps going after the Iran vote,
while Iraan is the only one casting real ballots.
They do seem to live in a fantasy world.
Would freezing expenses include freezing all raises, bonuses and promotions for Federal and state public employees (who are also all unionized)? If so, sounds like a helluva idea, Barry!
Government is a big, blunt instrument.
OK, some people like that, but like it or not, it’s still – a big, blunt instrument.
He never in any of these clips once mentioned anything, outside of defense, that his scalpel would actually cut. He used even this as an occasion to promise more funding for special interests. Barack Obama’s “Hard Freeze” will become a dimly remembered punch line to be filed with the infamous Social Security “lockbox.” Combine this idea with the Congress delegating it’s budget functions to a special committee and you have a guarantee that hundreds of billions of dollars would be shifted into undisclosed off the books external accounts. Illinois politicians are small potatoes at this game. To meet the pros at off the books financing you have to go to New York.
There is a joke about each countries sense of economics based on what happens to two cows. In China a series of fancy shell game transactions turn the two cows into 20 fictional cows. That is what happened to the US housing market under Franks and Dodd and Raines and Gorelick. That is what NY State budgeting is like with quasi public entities selling things, like roads and prisons, to each other. That is what I predict if the Obama crowd get the budget out of public view.
OT,
I solved the “Is he nuts?” question. See my #40 on the “Tinkering at the edges” thread.
Part of the reason government has a hard time being “there for you” is that it is by nature designed for common things. Common defense, etc. And it’s benefits shine on the good and bad alike. When it defends the nation, even those who hate it are sheltered, etc. So policy is in many ways the art of choosing the right level or degree of granularity that a certain layer of government can address. What can the Federal Government address? What can state, municipal or local?
Watching this video reminds me why Obama won.
First, McCain comes across really poorly. He announces a “spending freeze,” then immediately qualifies his call by exempting the military (good idea), veterans (good idea), and other “critical programs” (whatever the heck that means). He appears tentative, halting, and feeble-minded.
Second, Obama’s retort – hatchet vs. scalpel – is an attractive metaphor that communicates sophistication and nuance.
Third, despite being schooled in the first debate with this metaphor, McCain is unprepared for it when it re-appears in subsequent debates. He should have had a response ready (“I agree with Sen. Obama that the scalpel is what we need. But the difference between us is that he thinks the government needs a tummy tuck. I think it needs lap-band surgery.”)
Finally, he allows Obama to take his proposal (if you want to call an apparently half-baked idea thrown out during a Presidential debate a “proposal”) and twist it into something he didn’t support (an “across-the-board spending freeze”).
So, as a candidate, Obama demonstrated a remarkable ability to outmaneuver his opponent. Enough people took this ability as a proxy for leadership that he was able to beat McCain. Which is all he needed to do.
Now he has to be an effective leader. That’s not working out quite as well.
For all of us.
L3
The scalpel line was always a howler, especially if you’ve ever taken a look at the budget legislation that lands on a president’s desk. It’s always a horrific mess, and the president’s always got a gun to head, politically. Reagan used to cry out for a line-item veto – that would approach a scalpel – but all that was in vain. The whole point of the scalpel line was to present Obama as a fine-tuner, a surgeon, full of expertise, nuance, and special understanding. Da magic man. That was all.
This current proposal is problematic, too. The budget plan already submitted by Obama actually contains budget cuts for the next three years. FY2009 represented a jump in discretionary spending, one that was supposed to be temporary in order to meet critical needs. The last Bush budget had about $540 billion in discretionary spending, which Obama upped to $670 billion. It was then to ramp back down, to $640 billion, then $600 billion, etc.
So, unbelieveably, when he’s calling for a three year freeze in discretionary spending he’s actually calling for an INCREASE in what’s been projected. And he’s touting it as austerity measure, no less.
Like the scalpel comment, the purpose of putting this austerity package out there is to cultivate a favorable image of Obama. We are to have warm fuzzies about his dedication to fiscal stewardship – when in reality he’s upping the ante.
Like the scalpel comment, the purpose of putting this austerity package out there is to cultivate a favorable image of Obama. We are to have warm fuzzies about his dedication to fiscal stewardship – when in reality he’s upping the ante.
Absolutely. Obama has some nerve talking about scalpels anyway, given his recent attacks on tonsil-hungry surgeons and other medical malefactors.
Peter Wehner’s comment on the new Icarus:
“Whatever strengths Mr. Obama brought to the job as president — and they now appear to be quite limited — they are overwhelmed by, among other things, his massive ego and otherworldly arrogance. It is leading him and his staff into a state of self-delusion. Mr. Obama’s self-regard is not only utterly unwarranted, especially given his failed first year; it is downright dangerous. He is a man whose wings are made of wax; if he’s not careful, a long fall into the deep blue sea awaits him.”
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/wehner/223766
If his lips are moving it means he’s lying. Not believing it for a second.
Barry is the mostestest prepared president evah! You faithless sayers of nay!
I dunno boutchoo, but I feel soooooooo safe with our country in the hands of our (never spares any expense) TOTUS.
Someone suggested to me tonight that I look for some humor in our prospects for the SOTU.
So here is my lame attempt (I’m still only the derivative you know): The Jackal Speaks Tonight♫
Here’s a peek at the lyrics:
For those who never heard the tune or don’t remember it, there’s a link at the link.
BTW, those of you with FF 3.5 and better or IE8 or Safari should be able to see the test Tocque which is on this site. You can enable it. One of its uses is that you can banish a commenter you don’t like from sight. It affects only your view of the comments. The fact that you “troll” someone doesn’t affect what anyone else sees. If it gives you any trouble hit the disable button and it will go away.
12 Pascal
Here’s my tongue-in-cheek version of an old classic for tonight’s doings:
Take me out of their bawl game;
Take me far from that crowd;
Give them their pork and their crack and smack;
I don’t care if they never come back.
Oh it’s boot, boot, boot out that lame team–
If they survive, it’s a shame–
For it’s one– two– three strikes, they’re out
Of the real ball game!
I love it PA Cat. You’re quicker at Pascal fervor than me. That’s the ticket. Do you mind if I repost it?
and meanwhile the idiot marxists over at the Huffington Post say that what this recession needs is a good heaping of more government spending on entitlement programs and construction jobs. LOL! see the idiotic article at HuffPo called “7 Things About The Economy Everyone Should Be Worried About”. article Link! (i have warned thee) all of the sources are labeled as “economic experts” and come from the far left. the economic non starters and financial non sequiturs abound.
i am rarely speechless, but the level of delusion spewing from these nutburgers is tongue tying. thank god i can still type!
15 Pascal
Feel free to repost it– I’m glad you like it!
One of the techniques used to weather “freezes” and “reduced-spending” at the university where I worked was to declare positions that were “planned,” but not yet “filled,” as “cut.”
I once read in the local newspaper that a state budget crisis had forced my department to “cut” 12 faculty positions — about a quarter of the entire professoriate. Nobody currently employed was affected.
I wonder how many “jobs created” in Washington, DC, will now be “frozen” or even “cut?” Probably millions.
Obama might cut expenses on other agencies but budget on “Defence, Veterans Affairs, Homeland Security and spending on international affairs” might also be too huge that instead of saving, it would still end up the same. I just really hope this will solve the problems of the US economy.
13. wretchard
Great idea. I pick Habu.
mark/19; probably looking at 15bbl/yr or so. basically, almost nothing.
It is always interesting to see how such decrees are handled by the bureaucracy.
The biggest problem with bureaucrats is that they usually actually try to do their jobs, even though they know full well it is pointless. Worse, some of them actually try to excel at it.
And in a bureaucracy, “excelling” means being holier than Christ. An order to hold down discretionary spending issued from the top inevitably translates into keeping your coat on and sitting in an unheated room in the dark at the lowest echelon.
By the way, after all the hoopla about the social security recipients not getting any raise, my actual take-home military retirement pay went down by $11 a month in January.
We did this when the land/property tax increased this December. Freeze time I shouted, yet the Grandkids were expecting gifts that cost more than expected and with their Dad in astan we had to make up.
Then the Truck needed tires four bad after steel hauling hillbilly’s dropped a spring from and old bed spring on the road to town and destroyed one tire and damaged the other so bad it was only fixed at my insistence that I was in a spending freeze.
The wife needed her meds and of course there was the horses and that bad cold snap that hung around till it shorted out one water tank heater and burned the breaker out. along about Christmas day I suddenly noticed an abcessesed back molar and that alone ran $160.00 just to pull it because it was broken in two and coukldn’t be root canaled which was handy since a root canal would have cost more.
So go ahead Mr. President call for a freeze in spending, we did, but events took a hand and our freeze was more of sitting in the dark in pain freezing while we did without money. yet our money was spent anyway.
I did get those taxes paid so kept my home but it meant waiting in pain till January 10 before I could have that darn tooth pulled. By the way thanks for wiping out the savings with that tax increase I hope ya’ll spent that money well.
I bet sometime this year ya’ll will finally get around to patching that sinkhole of a pothole in front of my driveway before it gets much deeper last time I went to get the mail I swear I heard talking in Chinese coming from the bottom of the danged thing.
“Peace out !”
LOTM: Barack Obama’s “Hard Freeze” will become a dimly remembered punch line to be filed with the infamous Social Security “lockbox.” Combine this idea with the Congress delegating it’s budget functions to a special committee and you have a guarantee that hundreds of billions of dollars would be shifted into undisclosed off the books external accounts.
John Galt: “You want me to be Economic Dictator?”
Mr. Thompson: “Yes!”
Galt: “And you’ll obey any order I give?”
Thompson: “Implicitly!”
Galt: “Then start by abolishing all income taxes.”
“Oh no!” screamed Mr. Thompson, leaping to his feet. “We couldn’t do that . . . How would we pay government employees?”
Galt: “Fire your government employees.”
Thompson: “Oh, no!”
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
The idea of funding “construction jobs” is trotted out as often as the idea that “rebuilding infrastructure” is as a panacea for employment. While there may be times that these activities are justified, it’s foolish to even think that either of these areas would lead to any great increase in employment, even if they were funded.
Think about it – our problem is that we have laid off armies of salesmen and saleswomen, middle managers, store clerks, etc. over the last few years. (A dirty secret is that a majority of the construction workers who lost their jobs nationwide were illegal aliens and didn’t get counted) So, are these the people who are going to be lined up with shovels to dig a new road by hand? HA! They don’t have the skills, they don’t have the inclination. And it’s common to talk about the carry through economic effects of construction – but other than fast food sales to the workers, there aren’t any of those until the project is done which is often several years down the road. (There’s a 40 mile stretch of highway near me that has been under construction constantly for the last 30 years – no joke)
So, this proposed $80 billion is simply going to disapear like a mortar shot landing in a mudpit. And I’ll bet they might even know that – this is just a gamble that the economy will begin to pick up on it’s own and if they time this thing right they can pretend to have caused it. Of course that’s the same bet Congress made a year ago and look how that turned out.
You guys are being kind of hard on President Obama. Remember, during the election he told us that he had identified two trillion dollars in budget cuts (by going through it line by line). And he has, in fact, already made those cuts. What were those cuts? Why, it was George Bush’s plan for World Wars Three, Four, and Five (Three World Wars at the same time!) — which were apparently line items in the budget. These were budget busting discretionary World Wars of Choice, and the reason the New York Times supported Senator Obama for President is that he would choose not to fight them.
So please, give the President some credit. In fact, if you could give him another twelve trillion dollars in credit, it would be nice.
For your basic flinty American conservative (and you know who you are), there is no such thing as “non-discretionary spending.” There is only a non-discretionary Constitution. For the American Left, all their spending is non-discretionary, while the constitution should be left to the discretion of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Look for the Democrats to cut a few more discretionary wars, and spend the savings. In fact, one way to use hatchets to cut spending is by providing them to the armed forces instead of, say, the F22. And think about it. A hatchet would be pretty effective against a panty bomber. Who wants to set off a hellfire missile in an airliner?
“Theirs! A Yell Arose for Taxes!
that we are goin’ to see,
no other issues matter,
when you’re robbed to pover-teee….”
Obama is the bizzaro world President. When he says that he will freeze all non-essential spending, what he means is that he will slow the growth of essential spending and spend huge amounts of money on non-essential stuff. When you listen to him, you need to grow a beard and put blue bulbs in your lights and go to bizzaro world, where good is bad and right is wrong- that’s the only way that he makes any sense.
We all knew that Buraq was an empty suit, but I still find it shocking how lame and feeble this economic initiative is.
The Dems get smacked at the ballot box,
Unemployment insurance numbers jumb,
housing sales figures way down,
more and more people wondering where are all the jobs are,
and this is all he can do?
Who’s gonna fund the budget or buy FHA’s MBS in a couple of months when the Fed’s S1.25 trillion dollar program of buying the bank’s bad MBS ends ? The fact that we’ll be over a trillion dollars short in funding the budget deficit will be exposed and the housing market will tank bigtime.
I guess the good news is that when things get really bad for Buraq politically later on this year, and they will, Buraq’s response will likely be feeble and not draconian.
There is something vaguely unsettling about the concept of being able to “select out” a commenter.
So now, in effect each of us is truly alone in cyberspace.
Hello! Hello! Is any one else out there?
The country would save some if he and Michelle were to confine their dates to DC. But, with the country’s debt near 14 trillion, what now does any of it matter? A mere 1% increase in interest rates equates to an additional 140 billion in annual interest expense. How can this end well?
A good friend of mine who in the past worked for the Wisconsin Taxpayer’s Association has always asked those calling for “spending cuts” to get specific. She was absolutely for spending cuts and on her blog Fox Politics she enumerated specific spending cuts (these are state programs).
Problem being is that most people are always up for cutting funding to the “special interests”, but never for “vital interests” (defined as the interests of others versus “my” interests).
Almost any spending can be justified on the basis of economic externality. Like thermodynamics (where it seemed any two random phenomena could be linked by partially differentiating enough times) economic externalities can be distilled out of any situation. So in essence, the funding of the interior decoration committee is then justified as a legitimate government enterprise as it puts interior decorators to work, furniture manufacturers to work, chinzy wall art manufacturers to work, etc.
Cut the spending on the arts but don’t dare touch the ethanol subsidy!
I too suspect slick works and chicanery on the part of President Obama. I am hearing him saying “No new taxes” thing but listen for the comma after the no. A guy on the local radio station was astounded we are now seriously considering negotiating with the Taliban and is shocked by that. I just howled at the idiot (and an idiot this guy is) and turned off that radio station. I think it will be the same with this spending & tax freeze.
A lot of people will buy it and be shocked when their taxes go up (or at best they notice it is a game of “whack a tax” one tax goes down another goes up) and the deficit fails to stabilize.
“What can the Federal Government address? What can state, municipal or local?”
There has been a growing rift in all of these agencies because of the cause and effect of unfunded mandates. Maybe it’s time for the federal government to meet with the governors and work out the kinks of funding our republic. Who pays for border defense, which pays to incarcerate illegal immigrants and all of the other federally manifested expenses, like carbon dioxide mitigation, for Pete’s sake. This process could be repeated between state government and city and county government. Finally they can get back with the taxpayers with a plausible business plan projected out to at least five years. There has been a sheer lack of fiscal responsibility in the public sector. Government budgets can’t follow to the point markets that will always exhibit some level of volatility. Stop making plans on winning the lottery. On the flip side, the self righteous bureaucracy needs to be disbanded so that growth of new markets can proceed as unlikely as this might be. Institute a hiring freeze and shift government workers into jobs that don’t involve over-regulation. The next new thing will become the next new thing without overburdening legislation that tries to predict what it will be. Natural markets will fold in green technologies as they become practical. The US markets have been stifled and it is government at all levels that is doing the stifling.
A little over the top humor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4aQCiRjvZY&feature=player_embedded
30. programmer
There is something vaguely unsettling about the concept of being able to “select out” a commenter .
That was my first thought too since you can pick and choose who you want to read anyway. It’s too Orwellian.
The whole idea that you can cure financial problems by offering people money that doesn’t exist is preposterous.
Governments have been up to this trick for a long time – but especially since the world went on the paper money standard in 1971. Where Americans had a dollar worth a dollar in 1913, today they have a dollar worth 3 cents. What happened to the other 97 cents? Where did it go?
We don’t know. A guess? – it went to the place where the feds keep all that money they don’t have.
This reminds me of the town drunk who swears to give up drinking just as soon as he finishes off that last bottle of whiskey.
But the truth, like a hatchet, is a crude instrument that most politicians disdain to use. If you’re not careful you could hurt yourself with it.
#12 Pascal Fervor
Can you hit those high notes? In any case, please finish and post the lyrics. They will promptly be stolen and posted elsewhere with attribution to you.
An interesting turning point in the battle between the Institutional Republicans and both the Republican Base and the larger set of the TEA Party took place today.
John Sidney McCain III, Senator for Life in Arizona, had been making noises up until this week that actually sounded like opposition to his “non-threatening” “dear friend” Buraq Hussein Obama. This was to try to blunt the possibility of another candidate in the primary. Former Congressman J.D. Hayworth has quit his job as a very popular conservative talk radio host and has thrown his hat in the ring and is polling even with or ahead of McCain in the party activists who are key in primaries. This is despite McCain pulling a Harry Reid and blanketing the state for the last month with ads telling Arizonans what a staunch conservative defender he really is.
Since he could not block a conservative opponent, and can lose the primary; he has veered back to his RINO roots. McCain has endorsed Obama’s shuck and jive budget freeze on Good Morning America today, using an interview with George Stephanopolous to make his point. An interesting choice of interviewer to make his move. He is hoping that the state controlled media will drag his sorry gluts over the finish line.
Also, expect him to go over to the dark side completely if he loses.
TEA Party folk and Conservatives should take care if McCain pats them on the back; because he is just looking for a soft spot for something sharp and pointy. Sarah Palin agreed to campaign for him, I think out of loyalty because he brought her to the national stage. I think she is wrong to do so, and am hoping we can drive McCain out of office.
Subotai Bahadur
A hatchet is a lot more useful than a scalpel if you want to cut off a lot of dead wood. Jest sayin’….
“you can pick and choose who you want to read anyway. ”
This blog is heavily comments driven and it is therefore vulnerable to moonbat attack. If people democratically decide to ostrasize somebody that is being a jackass, it adds some cushion to moderate somepeople who otherwise might not care to maintain a level of civility.
Govenor Huckabee has been saying of late that
Obama’s defeats of late increase the chance of
republican victories in the fall.
However, Obama’s defeats also increase Obama’s
chances of being re elected in 2012.
I agree with this analysis.
Why?
Well look at the pattern from 1992-96. Clinton’s tried to do health care. they failed. that lead to a big republican landslide in 1994. the republicans did a lot of good legislation that resulted in a good economy. the clintons trashed the republicans/newt but claimed credit for the good economy. clinton was re elected in 1996.
30. programmer
In 1995 Robert D. Putnam wrote a book about the increasing isolation in our society. It was Bowling Alone He did not believe this isolation was anything positive.
Of course since this review was written in 1995 things have only gotten worse;
“If you don’t go to somebody’s funeral, they won’t come to yours,” Yogi Berra once said, neatly articulating the value of social networks. In this alarming and important study, Putnam, a professor of sociology at Harvard, charts the grievous deterioration over the past two generations of the organized ways in which people relate to one another and partake in civil life in the U.S. For example, in 1960, 62.8% of Americans of voting age participated in the presidential election, whereas by 1996, the percentage had slipped to 48.9%. While most Americans still claim a serious “religious commitment,” church attendance is down roughly 25%-50% from the 1950s, and the number of Americans who attended public meetings of any kind dropped 40% between 1973 and 1994. Even the once stable norm of community life has shifted: one in five Americans moves once a year, while two in five expect to move in five years. Putnam claims that this has created a U.S. population that is increasingly isolated and less empathetic toward its fellow citizens, that is often angrier and less willing to unite in communities or as a nation.
It would appear the isolation escalation continues.
On Fox, Rove points out, with his usual crisp and level style – wow, what an advisor he was/is – that the “freeze on spending” being promoted by the Once in his SOTU is a pure gimmick, amounting to only 3% of the new expenditures already budgeted by this administration.
Rove is such an unflappable, gracious gentleman. At least so far. Haven’t seen Rove furious on-air yet, and hope we don’t have to. His meaner side must be witheringly deadly. Next, I’d like to see them do weekly interviews with Rummy.
I am pleased that Fox is taking up the gauntlet. Their interviewers are asking ever keener questions. It seems Fox comes ever-closer to the realization that share-wise, adopting the Tea Party Sentiment is their only long term salvation – vs a gov’t-controlled or -destroyed Fox empire.
We publicans need to explicitly express our approval of their unbiased coverage of events. Swarming to their advertisers? So, ammo sales at 6:00 are a natural? Plus, dealing Fox the inside track in exchange for “fair” reporting. I don’t care so much about the “balanced” part, except as comparison. The plug-in Dems are failing miserably in defending near anything; many conceding a giant fail.
I suggest we exploit Fox cable channels and LOCAL broadcasters to convey/market the Tea Party Sentiment, movement, issues, updates, et al, at every opportunity, independent of Party affiliation. Ground floor coverage of the biggest political success story in history – or extinction all round.
Fundamentally allied, this local – national “reach” in-concert with the campaigns of lots of Scott Brown style candidates, financed by contributory swarming, can become a powerful advantage. We must bring the candiates to this new stage.
We can imbue an enormous competitive advantage through swarming; eg, the Fox poll with 350,000 eligible voters responding (including demographic profiles)shows…
We just need to commit to voting on their polls. Investigative, rational and forthcoming should allow Fox to own the audience that counts. US.
And we clearly need at least their distribution channels.
Yes, and a monster ives under your bed.
And on this blog some people will use a quote from a contributor, insult the contributor all without naming the contributor..Surely the sign of a gutless wonder …wouldn’t you agree Annoy Mouse?
Of course that makes the anon more civil and less a jackass.
How about taking a hatchet to Congressional junkets abroad? It cost the taxpayers over a million dollars to send such selfless public servants as Nancy Pelosi et al. to Copenhagen for the climate conference:
When the travel expenses get added, the bill comes up to over $1.1 million. Commercial flights cost $5000 each, and the three military jets cost even more, around $168,000 for the flight time. This begs the question as to why Congress sent a delegation at all, and certainly one that large. After all, Congress does not negotiate treaties. The Constitution specifically assigns that task to the executive branch. Barack Obama had a legitimate reason for attending, although the premise of the conference is highly questionable. If he wanted to take a couple of Congressional leaders for advisers, that would have been his choice.
But we’re not talking about a couple of Congressional leaders. Among the attendees were:
* Nancy Pelosi’s husband
* James Sensenbrenner’s wife
* Ed Markey’s wife
* Charlie Rangel (Ways and Means??)
* Joe Barton’s daughter
* Jay Inslee’s wife
* Shelley Moore Capito’s husband
* Gabrielle Giffords’ husband
* 31 “unnamed Senate staff” on top of dozens of named staffers . . .
And most gallingly, why were spouses and family given a trip to Copenhagen on the public dime? When people travel on business in the private sector, they pay for their spouses and family on the rare occasions they accompany the employee. Those expenses are not tax deductible, either. We do not need to pay for family vacations, especially at a time when most Americans have to curtail their own vacation spending because of the economic hardship in the US at the moment.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/01/26/cbs-you-wont-believe-the-costs-of-congressional-junket-to-copenhagen/
Yes…but…
How can we trust any longer?
Even if the scalpel was now brought out to help “freeze” spending on across the board items, instead of being used as a leftist shiv in the back of all things non-leftist, how can we trust that Pelosi-Reid-Plouffe won’t be plotting to fill the coffers of leftist special interests while keeping the “freeze” permanently on national defense?
How can we trust after they have explicitly outlined how they are going to respond to the Scott Brown election and use tricks and deception to pass legislation that the populace doesn’t want?
http://newsmax.com/Headline/pelosi-reid-healthcare-obama/2010/01/24/id/347820
How can we trust that while they are claiming to be using a hedge trimmer, they aren’t really firing up the road grader?
Once you begin to use ambush legislation techniques, the scalpel in your hand doesn’t look like a medical device, it looks like a weapon.
And if Congress can take money away from some and give back money to others, through tricks, deceit and deception…it will. If it can have members look the other way while Fannie and Freddie cook the books, it will. It can push on the accelerator against the military and national defense (and SOME banks)…and slam on the brakes for unions, ACORN, the Black Panthers and foreign terrorists who are given rights of citizens.
How can we trust them any more?
Some never did, some now don’t, and some always will. Maybe the scalpel will sort them out.
Why not be able to make a troll disappear?
I am sure I am not the only veteran of the Usenet here and one thing my favorite newsreaders had kill files. I could put threads and authors into that file and my world said “bye-bye” to them.
If you read Rec.skiing.alpine there is one fellow there who from 100 posts addresses skiing perhaps in only ONE post and then usually does so in such a way to provide gratuitous insult to someone. Needless to say that dude’s posts never appear in rec.skiing.alpine.moderated.
Those of us who are regular here understand the impetus for the project. A comment thread that was doing okay and at about comment 50 devolved into a full fledged flame war and troll fest.
In any event, no one who is a regular here will end up in my troll list, not even the occasional and disagreeable participant, only those who come here to offer gratuitous attack and they are easy to pick out.
Hello… hello… hello
Is there anybody in there
Just nod if you can hear me
Is there anyone at home
Come on… come on now
I hear you’re feeling down
Well I can ease the pain
And get you on your feet again
Relax… relax… relax
I’ll need some information first
Just the basic facts
Now can you show me where it hurts
There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship’s smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I cannot hear what you say
When I was a child I had a fever
My hands felt just like two balloons
Now I’ve got that feeling once again
I can’t explain, you would not understand
This is not how I am
I have become comfortably numb
Okay… okay… okay
Just a little pinprick
There’ll be no more aaaaaaaah!
But you may feel a little sick
Now can you stand up… stand up… stand up?
I do believe it’s working, good
That’ll keep you going through the show
Come on it’s time to go
There is no pain, you are receding
A distant ship’s smoke on the horizon
You are only coming through in waves
Your lips move but I cannot hear what you say
When I was a child
I caught a fleeting glimpse
Out of the corner of my eye
I turned to look but it was gone
I cannot put my finger on it now
The child is grown
The dream is gone
And I have become
Comfortably numb
(Waters & Gilmour, aka Pink Floyd)
The toque “blocking” is personal. Blocking someone does not block that someone from anyone else. And you can always “untroll” them.
Habu and Pat: Thanks for the responses to my Hallooooo. I felt the cold of space there for a moment or two, but now I’ve reestablished my horizon line.
47. Mark Framness
Darn sane and sound. Apologies if I am tainting you by responding to your contribution.
I don’t think anyone wants trolls here, and few actually appear.
However, I have received a number of entreaties from contributors that request I not debate, comment , or whatever phrase one wishes to describe my comments in the manner that I do. I assure each of you that I do not rise in the morning looking for a victim to jump all over, but much like each off you I have my thoughts and ideas, my education, both formal and from travelling the entire globe, so I present what I think.
I fully recognize that some will be offended, some amused, some shocked at the basically in your face approach I take, but that’s MY style. Other’s here have much more smooth styles, almost vanilla but without the taste and that’s fine because few are offended by a contributor whose comment would better fit on Twitter than here.
When W started this site the contributors wrote very long essays. Now that is the exception.
For those of you I offend I make no apology. One cannot go through life without offending some. If they manage to then you can count on that person not standing for anything. If you need a visual just think of Sgt Hartman in Kubricks Full Metal Jacket . Others here conjure up visions of Pee Wee Herman. Luckily we all get to type our little fingers off and express our opinions and read ‘em or skip ‘em….
Cyberspace is cold
Human warmth is hard to find
I go to drink tea
Subotai Bahadur at 37
If I could hit any notes, I’d take a crack at singing and posting it. I’ve an opening for a singer: interested?
I completed it last night — if such a thing could ever be complete since many Americans would want to dream up their own stanzas. Here again is the link:
http://pascalfervor.blogspot.com/2010/01/jackal-speaks-tonight.html.
And here are the three stanzas (without the refrain) I came up with. I’m not that happy with the last one, as I’d like something other than reinforcing Obama’s STFU, but it still carries the idea for spoofing him– and the original song also starts that stanza with “Hush my darling.”
Oh, and the opening two lines are sung in the background constantly. They are:
PA Cat at 14:
I’ve updated my original post at my blog to include your contribution. Thanks!
The good news is that Mr. Obama is not totally immune to political reality. The initial reaction of David Axelrod to Massachusetts was to double down on savaging GWB and ramping up the crisis.
Maybe it’s just the scorpion talking nice to the frog for a ride across the pond, but it is a slight improvement in outlook.
Pascal, the original by the Tokens –nice fit, since it’s about a token spending cut. A good title for the day (tomorrow): The Lyin’ Speaks Tonight –with the Tokens refrain ”a wimoway, a wimoway” as “a whim away, a whim away” –yuk yuk
That’s Mongo Buddy. [applause]
Do you sing too?
50 Habu,
Thanks for the compliment.
I guess I am speaking only for myself in all of this, but I do not necessarily mind offense. There are a few regulars here I find offensive, but I am quite willing to put up because they do not engage in what I consider gratuitous insult — that is — insult for the sake of insult. Their purpose is not to push someone’s buttons but to put forth their views and to try to convince us of the correctness of those views.
Sometime ago someone came in here and immediately started dropping epithets such as “teabagger” — it was clear they were not interested in discussion but in flamebaiting us. In that same thread there was a post that I felt on the borderline but it was salvageable so I addressed that person’s post. No reply to my points or to me whatsoever, but instead they started playing off the person I note earlier in this paragraph. I then wrote them off as a troll, sock-puppet, or both. THAT is what I want to make go bye-bye.
As far as Obama’s promise “freeze” discretionary federal spending, I wonder how many will believe it serious?
To Teresita: Agreed. Any calculation as to how many in a given time period is 13 Trillion $ saved? An ideal place to start is congressional staff and beaurocracy, and a junket cancellation policy.
pascal, sing? in a large enough crowd, yessir –
Sen. Judd Gregg’s motion to form a deficit task force was just voted down in the senate –he got 47 votes, i think –could be wrong –but it wasn’t a blow. he spoke to news afterward, remarking that govt’s percent of GDP has grown in one year from 20% to 25%, that we will be insolvent in five years, that long before that the selling of debt will require such interest rate discounts that “we may be unable to ever catch up, period”, and that F&F need to privatized now, right now.
And look what we’ve spend the entire Obama admin on: dead-ass faculty retreat beer talk –universal everything, melting Himalayas (oops, typo, they’re not melting after all), cap and climate oops, health system destruction, gitmo no gotno, ahhhh…..
As far as Obama’s promise “freeze” discretionary federal spending, I wonder how many will believe it serious?
I wonder what will actually be said?
The MSM is already debunking it, ahead of the speech. That’s a pretty drastic turnaround in their attitude towards Obambus.
My question is, does Obambus his own self, think it’s a serious proposal? I suppose not, I suppose all the discussions in the last week are under the rubric of Clintonian small-ball, I’ve seen the same comment in a couple of other blogs and articles already.
Saw something this morning that reminded me of an exchange a few threads back.
Remember when the Haiti disaster first struck, some of you were predicting that Obama would use it to vastly burnish his credentials and unleash spending and whatever in a way around normal constraints? That, after all, is what any truly talented and insightful demagogue would do.
And I predicted that Obama would do very little other than what he had to, because none of the Haitians could do anything for him (like vote) and he lacked the imagination to see any other way to make use of them. (not advocating that style of thought, but I do sincerely believe that’s how he thinks) Also, being a man who has not the faintest hint of what true leadership really is, I felt he would be completely unable to respond to the crisis in any meaningful way. (this of course does not apply to the US Armed Forces who will do their usual outstanding job as long as they aren’t interfered with)
So, anyway, notice how that situation is playing out?
I think the evidence is in, and the debate is over – Obama is a pathetic clown who is totally out of his depth and who has absolutely no idea as to what he’s doing. He has no grand plan anymore – the only plan left now is stumble and bumble for 3 more years before he can get out.
If things get really bad, I will not be surprised if he resigns before his term is over. He is about to become the most hated man in America, on both the right AND the left.
55. Mark Framness:
50 Habu
My pleasure and thanks for the response.
I believe I cited H.L Menchen a few days ago who stated, Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public .
That would fit somewhere in my answer as to whether obama is going to be taken seriously by a portion of the population. Certainly a huge portion of the Af-American community will believe anything he says. Others on the dole or looking for a handout will support him for he represents the quintessence of the redistribution of wealth in this country.
The irony is that he was going to be the great healer. He has turned out in just over a year to be the most divisive president we have ever had and while doing so has made sure we are on an economic course that no economist I read says we can fix in a long, long time. In nobody’s lifetime reading these pages. Should we be unable to unseat him our Republic will be in greater peril than it has ever been in for our foes are simply waiting in the tall grass to take us down.
wws/60; He is about to become the most hated man in America, on both the right AND the left
–that’s what carter did to himself –reviled from all points. he responded with his famous “mayonnaise” speech, in which he blamed the American people for having mayonnaise on their spirit. few mustard the courage to ask him what he hell he thought he was talking about. The general consensus was that he should check himself into the Mayo Clinic for tests –preferably the full condiment.
Keep up the good work, Habu.
63. Uncle Jefe
Thanks. I just say what I say. For many it is too much.
Going forward …. de l’audace, encore de l’audace, et toujours de l’audace.
The freeze sure takes the mind off what this fellow is calling the nationalization of the one trillion dollar student loan market –and the great things it does for the usual Dem entrenched. jeez –old Slick don’t miss a trick –always watch the *other* hand –
how long before kids’ parents have to be politically correct before junior and sis can get into college?
I think that the Obama Presidency is more a symptom of an increasingly powerful statist political alignment than the cause. I mentioned this article from City Journal in a previous thread because it is a good summary of the nature of the problem, as I see it.
City vs. Country has always been a source of contentiousness. The Athenians tangled with it 2,500 years ago. The Founders fixed the numbers of Senators from each state at two, regardless of population, to address the same issue.
The potential game changer that could permanently shift political power to the more liberal cities (i.e. Democrat) are the government employee unions. Not only is the number of actual government employees growing faster than employment in the private sector, but SEIU and AFSCME are unionizing employees in industries that merely receive government funding. Health care is the major unionizing target. We have been informed that Andy Stern, President of SEIU, is the most frequent visitor to the White House. With the prospect of universal government health care in the wind, and millions more SEIU union members, it is easy to understand why.
Government unions contributed $65 million+ to Democrats in 2004 and likely much more in 2008.
The relationship between government employee unions and the government is incestuous. The unions use huge amounts of money and workers to elect politicians who will expand the government, which increases the number of union members, which increases the amount of money and workers available to the unions to elect friendly politicians…
Scott Brown may turn out to be a successful peasants revolt only because the mandarins did not take him seriously enough in time to mobilize their considerable forces against him.
I do not know where the tipping point is but Obama’s election suggests that it may already be here.
Why is the $0.9T we will spend on ‘national security’ this year considered sacrosanct?
I think it’s unseemly of Obama to talk about a ‘scalpel’ when standing right in front of Nancy Pelosi.
If he says that line tomorrow night I’m sure she’d raise her eyebrows if she could.
Any ideas on the over/under of the number of people more excited about Steve Jobs’ presentation tomorrow than Barack Obama’s?
hdgreene: For your basic flinty American conservative (and you know who you are), there is no such thing as “non-discretionary spending.” There is only a non-discretionary Constitution.
Very good sound bite. Eminently tweetable.
Charles: Well look at the pattern from 1992-96. Clinton’s tried to do health care. they failed. that lead to a big republican landslide in 1994. the republicans did a lot of good legislation that resulted in a good economy. the clintons trashed the republicans/newt but claimed credit for the good economy. clinton was re elected in 1996.
Clinton was also a bright politician, while Bob Dole was a plodder. Match Obama against a rising star like Scott Brown and he’ll go down, especially with the women’s vote. And you also assume that the economy will rebound in 2011. I don’t.
#66 Peter Boston
Yes, indeed. I have often thought that the best way to curb the government would be to place upper limits on (1) the percentage of population that could be employed ( other than the military ) by the US government, and (2) the percentage of GDP that could be spent on their salaries and benefits, and making it so that #2 could never exceed #1.
If #2 is maxed out and GDP goes down, its salary cut or layoff time for the public servants. As it is now they actually have incentives to be inefficient, and they really don’t care how their policies and implementations thereof affect the economy as a whole.
I would give them some real “in your face and wallet” incentives to be efficient in a rational manner. There are none now, and that is one of our biggest problems. The idiots who populate the Congress are like a legion of Dr. Frankensteins–they are not so dangerous but the monsters they create are.
Mongo @ 65:
I am not going to go back over last nights surfing but essentially I found a takedown on the student loan thing. Say a student takes out $80k in loans. Not unheard of for an MD or JD or LLB. Limiting the payback per year to 10% means he pays back $8k the first year if his pay is the same as the loan amount. There are not many that will make that much straight out of school. Most likely less. So, the accrued interest at a lesser pay scale then goes against the original amount and at the end of the first year the borrower ends up owing more than the original loan. Pricing the common man looking for a decent education out of the market OR the cycle continues until the borrower ends up in default. I know this is neither that clear nor concise but you get the drift. More hatchets from The Zero.
#5,
“I solved the “Is he nuts?” question. See my #40 on the “Tinkering at the edges” thread.”
Unfortunately, you’re never going to get Obama to agree to go to Bethesda. Besides, House? Now 24, yes!:-)
#7,
“Third, despite being schooled in the first debate with this metaphor, McCain is unprepared for it when it re-appears in subsequent debates.”
How does a campaign not anticipate or at least, be ready to respond, to an obviously successful verbal jab by one’s opponent?
Did anybody take debate 101?
Which leads me to fear that the republican response to Obama’s SOTU speech tomorrow will not anticipate the obvious and predictable assertions he will make. Thus wasting an invaluable opportunity.
#16,
“meanwhile the idiot marxists over at the Huffington Post say that what this recession needs is a good heaping of more government spending on entitlement programs and construction jobs…i am rarely speechless, but the level of delusion spewing from these nutburgers is tongue tying.”
Which will result in the republicans taking back both the house and senate in November. If nothing else, that shall stop Obama’s agenda from being further implemented.
“So, this proposed $80 billion is simply going to disapear like a mortar shot landing in a mudpit… – this is just a gamble that the economy will begin to pick up on it’s own and if they time this thing right they can pretend to have caused it. Of course that’s the same bet Congress made a year ago and look how that turned out.”
It shall turn out exactly as in 2009 and it’s going to be a massacre in November.
#31,
“How can this end well?”
It can’t. The dems are in the same position the republicans, in 1930 were in but now, it’s all on the dems. When it gets really bad this summer, the proverbial caca is going to hit the fan and the political fallout will be massive.
#41,
In 1953 the great science fiction writer Isaac Asimov presciently addressed the subject of societal isolation, initially in the novel, The Caves of Steel and then in 1956 fully exploring the theme of a population having completely isolated itself in the novel The Naked Sun;
The synopsis of the novel:
“Like its predecessor, The Caves of Steel, The Naked Sun is a whodunit story, in addition to being science fiction.
The story arises from the murder of Rikaine Delmarre, a prominent “fetologist” or fetal scientist, responsible for the operation of the planetary birthing center on Solaria, a planet reminiscent of those described in Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World.
Detective Elijah Baley is called in to investigate, at the request of the Solarian government. He is again partnered with the humaniform robot R. Daneel Olivaw.
The book focuses on the unusual traditions and culture of Solarian society. The planet has a rigidly controlled population of twenty thousand, and robots outnumber humans ten thousand to one. People are strictly taught from birth to despise personal contact. They live on huge estates, either alone or with their spouse only. All children directly leave the birthing center for state run education camps. Communication between citizens is done via holographic telepresence (called viewing, as opposed to in-person contact).
Earth also appears to have evolved an unusual society, in which people spend their entire lives in confined, underground interlinked cities, never venturing outside. Indeed, they become utterly panicked and terrified when exposed to the open air and the naked sun.”
Asimov uses the situation as a device to comment upon the increasing isolation he sees taking place in American society…at the end, Baley has realized that the present cultures on both Solaria and Earth are unsustainable and fundamentally unhealthy.
Teresita,
I wouldn’t want to see Scott Brown run for President for the same reason Barack Obama shouldn’t have run for President: a partial term as Senator is no preparation for executive office. Maybe Scott Brown lacks the overwhelming sense of omniscience and omnipotence that seems to insulate Barack Obama from annoying things like reality, but better to bring in an executive from a state with some experience in guiding legislation into being and some experience in losing and still staying on-track from a philosophic standpoint.
The problem the GOP has is that the people with executive experience and who are positioned to run for President in 2012 aren’t quite as dynamic as Scott Brown or Sarah Palin. The short list would probably be Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Bobby Jindal. Jindal needs another term as governor, really, and seeing as he actually had experience in the health care administration of Louisiana and he’s smart as a whip you’d think we would have heard more from him over the last 6-8 months as this healthcare thing became a major issue. The fact that we have not suggests a few possibilities: a) Jindal was burned by his response to the SOTU last year, b) Jindal was keeping his head down in Louisiana because goodness knows LA needs the help, c) Jindal figured this was a federal show and being a state guy he didn’t have chips in the game, d) GOP folks talked to Jindal and decided he wasn’t the messenger they wanted.
Sarah did more with her Facebook page than the whole of the elected GOP to upset this particular applecart, aided effectively by the Democrats’ own secretive, opaque method of lawmaking. I wish there was someone as able to mobilize public consciousness as well, without polarizing it at the same time. I always thought George W. Bush was most fortunate in his choice of opponents, a couple of tin-eared blowhards with little public appeal. Obama on the campaign trail will be very, very effective, and the number of yellow-dog Republicans is fairly small. Maybe we have not seen the person who will be the GOP nominee just yet, but 2012 is unlikely to be the kind of election that Any Republican can win. It will take someone as media-savvy as Sarah Palin, as idea-generating as Newt Gingrich, as smart and hardworking as Bobby Jindal and someone as reliable and low-key as Tim Pawlenty, and maybe someone that looks like Mitt Romney. That’s a tall order.
“Of course that makes the anon more civil and less a jackass.”
Did I strike a cord with you Habu? I was siting someone who thought the filter idea was Owellian. I was distinctly thinking of the troll who had everyone’s dander up about a month ago with a bunch of nasty attacks. Did you think that I had you in mind? If so don’t be so paranoid. I haven’t even installed the ap yet.
The funny thing is, by the time BHO has had three years to monkeywrench, Jeb Bush may be able to run on his last name as well as his record as Florida Governor.
When the prez talks about freezing spending it is wise to remember that many things expand when frozen.
Whether you like or dislike Sarah Palin, she effectively took an axe to excess spending in Alaska. That could be enough to vault her, or someone with a similar message into the WH. As long as they have no fear of goring any ox that has grown too large, it would be welcome.
I would like to hear some national debate about taxation, specifically about whether it is lawful to impose a tax on a citizen without reciprocation. Are taxes levied based on expectation of receiving value for money paid in the form of services rendered? I think many people are getting ripped off based on the “It takes a village” mindset.
W — the tocque thing will come in handy the next time a troll invades. Frankly, I even enjoy reading Whiskey’s rants so will continue to read every word in the comments. I appreciate the many points of view, the passion, the history; I learn something new here every day. Thank you all.
Has the president ever balanced even a checkbook, really truly? Did he receive any sort of positive, constructive parenting? Is he so detached from tangible reality that words are purely symbolic to him? He seems more inclined to bludgeon than incise. Scalpel’s actually require skill to be effective…
I have a large number of liberal friends in MA — their reaction to Brown’s election spanned from livid fury to heartfelt failure. They are still acolytes of O. Creepy!
The teenage daughter has been running downstairs often with Jon Stewart’s latest ready to play on her laptop. He’s way more liberal than she is, but he’s been saying aloud what she wants to say, and that cheers her, even if the message is one of frustration.
W — the tocque thing will come in handy the next time a troll invades.
Remember that you can “untroll” the person and do try the “send a message” to the commenter functionality. It’s in the little remote control with scissors icon beside each comment. The thing to remember is that the Tocque lets you do two seemingly contradictory things. First, it customizes your view — and your view alone — of the site. It doesn’t alter the Pajamas Media page. It only alters your view of the page, which you can customize. So your “troll” maybe someone elses “clip”. A clip is a handy way to vote something you like up. It also makes it possible to filter only to those clips. You can also unfilter, so it’s not like you are banishing someone forever from view. Anyway its only your view.
The contradictory flip side is that the Tocque has certain global aspects. You can share what you clip. People can choose to follow what you clip. So if you want to “look over” someone’s shoulder you can follow his clips.
74. Annoy Mouse:
Yeah I think that was Pat. The chord was that you seemed very on top of the issue so I went to the fons et origo for the skinny.
No problem here amigo….keep up the good work…no trolls. you don’t think Pats a troll or trollette do you? Geez I hope not, could be trouble.
But come to think of it and it does smack of a camera on every street corner and such.
“you don’t think Pats a troll or trollette do you?”
Sure don’t. I was defending the hard work Wretchard put in to make a do-it-yourself filter capability. Within the last few years there were constant cries to “ban” this guy or that guy. I think W brought this capability forward as a value added to his fervent admirers without having to put himself in the “banning” business, which would suck. Like so many capabilities, it is a deterent to those who might otherwise may not be restrained, and plays to a future and not yet relized threat should DoS type counterblogging ever evolve. I wont install it until I get real good and pissed and that is going to take something for me, I can dish it out as well as anyone when motivated.
As cynical and meaningless as it is, yet President Obama has made a rhetorical concession, ceding ground to fiscal conservatism.
That is why “progressives” like Paul Klugman are howling. The momentum has shifted, if only a little. The pressure must be maintained, if not increased.
I didn’t develop the Tocque. That credit goes to the development team who will introduce themselves in due time.
Obama’s Credibility Gap
Bob Herbert
Americans are still looking for the answer, and if they don’t get it soon — or if they don’t like the answer — the president’s current political problems will look like a walk in the park.
Mr. Obama may be personally very appealing, but he has positioned himself all over the political map: the anti-Iraq war candidate who escalated the war in Afghanistan; the opponent of health insurance mandates who made a mandate to buy insurance the centerpiece of his plan; the president who stocked his administration with Wall Street insiders and went to the mat for the banks and big corporations, but who is now trying to present himself as a born-again populist.
Mr. Obama is in danger of being perceived as someone whose rhetoric, however skillful, cannot always be trusted. He is creating a credibility gap for himself, and if it widens much more he won’t be able to close it.
I’ve repeatedly had the enable Tocque bring up a boot error pop-up in my FF3.5.7 on XP. It goes back to disable when I refresh the window, so it’s not debilitating. And I can still use it in IE where it works fine.
Has anyone else been having this problem?
Has anyone resolved it?
What are Русские up to?
I’ve repeatedly had the enable Tocque bring up a boot error pop-up in my FF3.5.7 on XP. It goes back to disable when I refresh the window, so it’s not debilitating. And I can still use it in IE where it works fine.
One other person has experienced this problem and the cause of it is now known. However, the solutions are still be tried out
wretchard @ Jan 26, 2010 – 12:39 am:
One of the cool features of the Tocque is the Reply to Comment function (at 9 o’clock in the popup menu).
Just move the mouse over the little tocque icon next to the comment, and click Reply to Comment. The commenter’s name and the datetime stamp will be copied to the Write a Comment box, and the cursor set for you to type in your reply. Also, if there is a particular part of the comment you want to reply to, just select it before you click Reply to Comment and text will be copied and put in blockquotes and italicized.
L3
programmer @ Jan 26, 2010 – 8:13 am:
The way to think about trolling is that it is a way for you to filter out noise. Trolls are somewhat a matter of personal taste; some people like the back and forth, the give and take. Others view it as a distraction.
The beauty of the troll function is that it puts you, the reader, in control. And it is reversible.
You can also hide individual comments; after all, one offensive comment does not make a troll. Again, it only hides it for you – it does not impact the views of others.
My favorite function is the clip function (the scissors). How many times have you read an interesting comment and said, “Hey, that’s really good. I’d like to keep a copy of that.” Now, you can clip it, and it appears in the Tocque under the My Clips tab. Think of this as your scrapbook, or list of personal favorites. When you want to read the entire comment, just click on the link in the tab.
Plus, when you clip a comment, you are also in a sense “voting” for that comment. The clips create a kind of “score” for that comment, and the most clipped comments appear in the Top tab of the Tocque. So you can immediately see what the BC community thinks are the most interesting comments.
L3
When the monster gets this big, a hatchet IS a scalpel.
if you can’t remember a comment you can go to “I’ll ask the tocque-ville”
Is Tocque going to become a feature available on other PJM blogs?
Our host is to be congratulated for being responsive to visitor concerns. Maintaining a popular blog is a difficult task. I do not call it a job since we should remember that nobody, not even I would guess Roger Simon, is making money off of this. As a social enviornment blogs have two great drawbacks.
First is that people are anonymous. That is true to other guests even for sites with prior registration requirements. It is true that few are really anonymous in the sense that, except for those using advance technology with multiple server cut-outs and dynamic IP switching, the police can trace people who engage in threatening and criminal conduct. It is also true that for the vast majority of people all that matters is that other public visitors can not easily locate them. That results in a fools freedom that can change the behavior of even quiet polite people. The same thing happens when people travel to a foreign country or even a distant city. Here it is the opposite of Cheers. No one knows your name, unless you choose to reveal it. So people do tend to say things that they would not if their audience was looking into their eyes and could respond more directly.
The second and related problem is that this is a very limited form of communication. All we have is typed words and an occasional link to a video or some document. This isn’t even chat. There is no intonation, no expression other than a smiley emoticon. That eliminates all the ways that humans as much as any animal communicate other than through intellectual symbolism. Text does neither self deprecating wit nor sarcasm well.
The result of these engineering constraints is that normal people can act more emotionally while their emotions are being badly expressed. Hostile and deceitful people or trolls have a perect medium to exploit. The host may pour enormous amounts of time and effort into the venture with little expectation of reward and a constant fear that malicious and unkown or unstable forces are tearing it all down.
Many of us have experienced tha unfortunate results of one effort to control the blogging environment that effectively destroyed what had been an excellent blog when the owner resorted to the mass banning of anyone who disagreed with him or even visited other blogs. We do not want that to ever happen here. It may be unlikely given the different temperament, experience and education of the host but we should still do our part to keep this fragile place intact. That does not mean that we need to agree with each other. It does mean that we have real physical limitations on how we can: see each other, deflect criticism or misunderstanding, and do any of the million gestures or clues that are used in a social setting to defuse tension or offer support or a warning in a way that deescalates a potential confrontation. Because of those limitations we have to make the extra effort to be agreeable even when we disagree. We have to focus on the message and not the messenger and to not personalize criticism recieved.
That does not make us doormats. Long time members of the Club know that on at least a couple of occasions I have been intentionally rude and given the facts of those cases I have no regrets. If I am ever unintentionally rude then I hope that I will apologize. These new tools, the ability to Ignore and reduce clutter from a troll, and most importantly the ability to give a back-channel message to another commentator, should reduce the level of heat generated by unintended friction.
To be blogged under the title “Tocque.”
I do not see these wonderful tools in my FF 3.5+ browser – and i trust it is pronounced “tuuuk”, as in the traditional great white north headwear?
How does one manifest this magnificence in their browser?
cheers,
J Charles @ Jan 26, 2010 – 9:34 pm:
It works with FF 3.5+, but you need to enable Javascript. That can be done by going to the Preferences menu, clicking the Content tab, and clicking Enable Javascript.
And Tocque is short for “Tocqueville”. I’ll leave it to Marie Claude to advise on proper pronunciation.
Cheers,
L3
“One Tocque Over the Line…”
(Thanks to Brewer & Shipley, from the Album “Tarkio Road”)
Some years ago when I was in one of my recurring periods of job-tweeniness, I tried plucking out the two or three gray hairs in my moustache.
Later that day, the thought crept into my single-malt haze that as more I plucked, so nakeder would be my face, till soon I would have lost my moustaches entirely.
I’m afraid if I start using Tocque to cull posters that irk, the universe may turn on me.
There are already times I have a sense I’m all alone here. I post, and then hear nothing but the crickets chirping.
I’m going to go steal some old jokes from a 1960 issue of Boy’s Life.
Wow, you couldn’t publish a magazine with THAT title these days…
Dang. I’ve been working with those solvents too much again today.
If you never read anything else of Tocqueville’s, you’ll want to remember this.
Alexis deTocqueville, Democracy In America, Volume 2: Part 2 Chapter 4
I’d like to think that the developers of Tocque had this quote in mind. Trolls have the ability to aid tyranny by provoking divisions among us. Tocque has provided us a tool whereby we can each blunt such attacks and thereby increase comity. That’s my wish for it at any rate.
See? I’m actually more of an optimist than some of my posts may make me appear.
#75 Darren
You eloquently outline the problem for the Repubs in 2012. Palin has been so lambasted she can’t win. Newt the same. Pawlenty is a strict creationist, and while that doesn’t bother me it makes him unelectable. Mitt is smart and the best problem solving politician in the land but has a slickster image that turns many folks off (unless Obama falls even further).
We need a Cincinnatus, and one isn’t readily available.
#68 Peter Boston
I have always contended that public sector unions are a form of treason. Civil servants, organizing in opposition to taxpaying citizens? How is that not treason?
Two solutions are to pass an amendment banning union organization for the public sector, or an amendment which prohibits public sector individuals from voting (exception for real military personnel).
nmu/98; also, when a public union strikes, there are no competitors for the taxpayers to hire instead. It’s no wonder we find ourselves where we are. before NYC mayor Rob’t Wagner allowed the first collective bargaining by muni employees, the whole duckbill platypus was a no-no. but once in, the old ”case law” penumbra made hizzoner’s error into polonium tea for the tillerman.
maybe California will save us:
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/92578/
“Three in ten Californians identify with Tea Party”
#99 buddy larsen
“Three in ten Californians identify with Tea Party”
Yeah, but this is California. Two questions must be asked.
a) Of the remaining 70%, how many are in fact US Nationals?, and
b) How many of them are hard-core TWANLOC?
The chances of the TEA Party ever getting a majority in California are pretty slim. One can picture picture the Left bunkering up in Esalen at Big Sur, in a last ditch attempt to hold back reality as the state collapses completely after the last productive citizens flee or are forced to leave after being convicted of thoughtcrime.
Subotai Bahadur
Still, that’s voting bloc, Subotai –a start –
We need to remember that the California farms, factories, forests, rivers, roads, bridges, dams, skyscrapers, homes, schools, hospitals, (pant pant whew) are all still there, not to mention the weather, the beaches, the mountains and the seas. All that’s wrong –that is without getting into sociology –is the little electronic glyphs that come up on financial statements. Why, they don’t even weigh anything.