The Drudge Report links to a Politico story saying that President Barack Obama, facing collapsing popularity numbers, has decided to take the health care “reform” public option off the table. While it is by no means certain that the withdrawal is true, if it is then It represents a stunning victory. But whose victory is it? The Republican Party’s? Probably not. It’s a victory for the People. Yes that terrible word, the People.
The American poet Edwin Markham was renowned as a poet of social change. One of his poems, the Man with Hoe, described the sullen, elemental force of those who, by their unremitting labor, keep the world on its axis. Markham extolled a People who were at once creators and victims. An unstoppable force that might at any time remind the rulers who was in charge.
Bowed by the weight of centuries he leans
Upon his hoe and gazes on the ground,
The emptiness of ages in his face,
And on his back the burden of the world.
Who made him dead to rapture and despair,
A thing that grieves not and that never hopes,
Stolid and stunned, a brother to the ox?What gulfs between him and the seraphim!
Slave of the wheel of labor, what to him
Are Plato and the swing of Pleiades?
What the long reaches of the peaks of song,
The rift of dawn, the reddening of the rose?How will it be with kingdoms and with kings–
With those who shaped him to the thing he is–
When this dumb Terror shall reply to God,
After the silence of the centuries?
Markham was what one would have called a Progressive Poet. Today anyone who hears the title of his famous poem would probably think it was written in reference to a pimp. History is full of irony; not in the least that Markham’s best remembered piece, apart from the Man with the Hoe is in honor of a Republican: in fact the founder of the Republican Party, Abraham Lincoln. The poet took care to identify Lincoln as a Man of the People, to cast the man a collective noun whose end is yet strikingly individual: the assassination “leaves a lonesome place against the sky”. He could not wholly subsume the man in the mass. I think the dichotomy is artificial. Men are simultaneously persons and part of the People; Islands and Parts of the Whole: they move through history both as themselves and in company with others. In the struggle against the Death Panels, each person attended the Town Halls as himself. As Joe, Bill, Pamela, or Betty. Each had to nerve himself to speak and to act. Nothing was automatic about it any more than armies act as masses. Ultimately each man who hit Tarawa, Iwo Jima or Omaha beach did it as themselves. They did not attend as the People, though collectively they might have been. And if the Politico has gotten the story right, then Joe, Bill, Pamela and Betty have faced the One down. It’s a victory for the People and the mighty labor of individuals.
Tomorrow is another day.
He will have a token bill passed and be praised for it. It will still be expensive and useless.
It’s not right that someone so wrong is allowed to save face. As insulted and angry as Americans are, they are still scared of offending, let alone rightly humiliating Obama or any “well meaning” politician.
Wretchard, Markham was what one would have called a Progressive Poet. Today anyone who hears the title of his famous poem would probably think it was written in reference to a pimp.
And then promptly be branded a racist, were he/she ever to give voice to such a thought.
Chiral: He will have a token bill passed and be praised for it. It will still be expensive and useless.
But at least it (probably) won’t be catastrophic to the American way of life, as would his original plan have been. Nor will their “victory” be much of a political asset to The One-and-Done or his fellow Dems on Capitol Hill.
It’s always interesting to see how embedded within the “progressive’s” ostensible paean to the Workers, is his underlying elitist contempt for them:
“Who made him dead to rapture and despair,
A thing that grieves not and that never hopes,
Stolid and stunned, a brother to the ox?”
Why doesn’t Markham concede that another youngest of 6 children, born on a farm to parents who would soon divorce, who toiled to put himself through school, might have the soul of a poet? Why cast the workingman as dead to life, dull as an ox? (And are oxen really dull?)
Mrkham’s pride in his own climb to the level of the seraphim, in his view, is evident in his lines. What is wrong with a world in which that was possible?
For those who know only the campaign but not the craft of governing the struggle is unending. Do not trust the Democrats to accept a check and refocus their efforts on solving real problems. The face of the Democratic Party is Rahm Emanuel in a rage plunging a knife into a table. They will want vengeance, expect every resource at their disposal to be unleashed in “the politics of personal destruction.” Further I do not trust them to really abandon the public option. The nationalization of health care is the point of the whole exercise. Everything else is just window dressing to them. Some bills will be produced with elastic clauses inserted, they could be titled “An Act for Insurance Portability” or “An Act for Refurbishing the Washington Monument” but the important clauses will be buried inside, that will be used to justify setting up committees of best practices and cooperatives of health consumers.
President Barack Obama, facing collapsing popularity numbers, has decided to take the health care “reform” public option off the table.
It is too early to declare “Mission Accomplished” on health care reform. Reading the Politico article, it appears more to be a tactical retreat than a surrender.
However, even this progress is a tremendous testament to the heart of our nation. There are millions of Americans who have been pushed – by philosophy, by faith, by fear – into a level of action and engagement as never before. They’re willing to stand up and be counted. This gives me hope.
The President’s courtiers dismiss the “teabaggers” as a bunch of rubes. Perhaps they are; but there are a lot of them, many more hidden from view, and the pressure from them is building. The President, then, is like a guy standing at the bottom of the levee below the 17th Street Canal during Katrina, looking at a little water flowing over the top and thinking to himself, “Heck, it’s just a little water. This here levee of mine is much more powerful than that little trickle of water.” Yeah, sure.
From what I can see, how this ends is in the President’s hands. He can keep up the pressure, and levee will break. He will not be able to control when or where, and it will break at the most inconvenient time and place. Continuing down this path will destroy the Democrats.
Or he can back off, and abandon his efforts at remaking our nation from the top down. The problem with withdrawal is that he must give up his dreams, the dreams around which he has built his political career, his political identity, his self.
So he can destroy his party, or himself. Lemme guess which way he’s leaning…
L3
Even a token bill will be a Trojan Horse, or Trojan Donkey if you will. Even a token bill will be monumentally expensive, will largely serve only the politically well connected, and will turn up the temperature of the water we frogs are simmering in just another notch until they feel they can get away with turning up the heat some more.
Punditarian,
This is the world of which you speak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSzPGrazPo
Cheers,
L3
[Note: Testing a post from Internet Explorer, since Firefox doesn't seem to post for me today]
#5 Leo Linbeck III: “From what I can see, how this ends is in the President’s hands. He can keep up the pressure, and levee will break. He will not be able to control when or where, and it will break at the most inconvenient time and place. Continuing down this path will destroy the Democrats.”
Yep, Leo. I’m guessing he has about three more months to make this decision. Though, he does seem to be leaning more to cooperating with the American people now, which is good.
I wrote about Obama’s choice: Who is sovereign in America
If he truly learns this lesson, he can still be a great president.
Oh, and if he doesn’t learn the lesson? Well then, welcome to the Lonely Hearts Club.
Interesting times we live in.
I repeat: the will to power, the groping trial, the transition of the obvious to the subtle.
They/he/it will be back. And embedded in their efforts will be the “love” for humanity and hatred of people that the left consumes for fuel.
The next move will likely be the work of trying to silence the voices that impeded their efforts this time around. But they will eventually fail, the only question being how much damage is wrought in the process.
The One’s domestic failures are there for all to see, but the REAL disasters have yet to occur.
Earlier this year, he said that the Iranians had until September to cease their pursuit of nuclear weapons, ‘or else.’ It’s September…now what?
The casualty rates in Afghanistan continue to climb, and a successful strategy will generate even higher losses in the short run. The One has already fired one senior theater commander, and his hand-picked replacement is calling for more troops…now what?
Hugo Chavez is buying weapons from Russia, and his special forces are being advised by the Iranians. He’s surely asking the drug cartels for advice on how to move people and cargoes into the U.S. w/o bothering to show a passport, and in the meantime, he’s trying to destabilize Colombia while we seem to be trying to destabilize Honduras…now what?
The North Koreans are shipping missiles to anyone who a) has cash and b) hates America, and the only way we seem to know about it is if some third party stumbles across a stray ship-load…now what?
Pray for the Republic…
Like Arnold’s terminator, “It will be back” some stealthy way no doubt.
Only DC Lifer Pubs can steal defeat from victory:
69% of Republicans think Congressional Pubs are out of
touch with the Republican Base.
(ie, worse than BHO with the American Public)
Ya think?
Example:
—
Warning: GOP Leadership Still Doesn’t Get it
You can give him credit for answering the question directly, I suppose, but that’s about it.
Here’s what I’m talking about:
I just came from a small meeting this afternoon with a very senior member of the GOP Congressional leadership, and I can tell you with certainty something which should dismay the rank-and-file Republican voter:
they do not have a clue why they lost the majority in 2006.
Here’s how it went down:
In response to another attendee’s question about where the GOP would head, this official flatly confirmed rumors I have been hearing for months, that Congressional GOP Leadership believes that the only reason they lost the majority in both houses was due to an unpopular war (Iraq) and an unpopular President (W). The ONLY reason.
—
The understanding in his mind is clear: us silly little fiscal conservatives out here aren’t going anywhere. So, I guess if you expect the NRSC to stop endorsing extreme moderates in GOP primaries or are hoping the House GOP will hear our pleas on spending restraint and abusive earmarks, you are going to be very disappointed.
Conservative Democrats Expect a Health Deal
Even after the tough town-hall-style meetings, unrelenting Republican assaults and a steady stream of questions from anxious voters, interviews with more than a dozen Blue Dogs and their top aides indicate that many of the lawmakers still believe approval of some form of health care plan is achievable and far preferable to not acting at all.
“I can’t tell you how comprehensive it will be, but I do believe something will get passed,” said Representative Michael Arcuri, a second-term Blue Dog Democrat from New York.
I recently read that the original meaning of the term “Tyrant” was one who got the people behind him and took control.
Kings did not have to get the people behind them because they had power that extended directly from God.
Obama began by being a supposedly popularly elected leader with overwhelming support. Having an opinion on abortion was “above his pay grade.”
He then tried to move into the role of Tyrant – ruling by decree because it was The People’s Will – virtually a dictatorship of the proletariat.
When that seemed to be falling apart, tried the “God Wants This” approach – moving to the usual power base of a King. It was no longer above his pay grade.
In a few short months he has tried almost every known means of seizing and holding power, except possibly declaring himself Pope or the Leader of Islam or something of that order.
But it is all about Power.
Bubbles. The way the congress has approached things is to build in self destruction. There will be a health care bubble in about 7 years and then the government will “bail out” the health care industry.
Whether or not a health bill of any sort is passed in the short term won’t matter a whit. The stunts pulled and attempted to ram the initial bill down everyone’s throat is going to leave a long lingering bitter taste in many mouths. “This is America, not Russia!” has been the response of many. They have angered the senior citizens of this country. Folks who have literally fought tyranny and know it when they see it. My parents (in their 80s) are outraged as are all their friends (as few as they may be). I think my father is going to have a heart attack when talks about the President now. My quiet spoken mother isn’t so when the subject of Obama comes up. Obama and the Democrats have awoken Nixon’s Silent Majority. They are as in the words of Howard Beale, “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore.” Also, what liberals have forgotten is that six million conservative voters sat out the last election on the theory that they were going to teach the Republicans a lesson. They won’t do so in the next election. They now realize the folly of “handing the ball over to the other team.” The upcoming governor elections in New Jersey and Virginia should be a bell weather of how upset the Middle is. If they are the blow-outs as currently predicted (a Republican governor in New Jersey??) watch the Democrats in the House and Senate start thinking about self-preservation and Obama retreat in the “sanctuary” of foreign policy (where he will continue to screw the pooch). Interesting times to say the least.
Over at Hot Air, Member of Congress Diane Watson is quoted to the effect that opposition to Health Care Reform is racist on account that it is an effort to discredit a “President who looks like me.”
President Obama looks like a woman?
Paul Milenkovic,
1) Well maybe an ugly woman.
2) You prefer to dream of Michelle?
Yep, they will pass a watered down bill that will be like 17,000 pages long, they’ll say it doesn’t contain a public option, but it will, or they will type it in some of those “blank” pages it will contain.
There has been no “victory”, just an “awakening”, and the politicians have rapidly learned not to consult with or even release the contents of the legislation to the public.
Everyone on the left said Bush would create a “crisis” to stay in office. Well, he didn’t but don’t put it past the Dems. Obama isn’t planning on another election, that should be obvious to all. It’s amazing how they have already told us what they are going to do!
An example:
A couple of cities nuked by “terrorist” bombs, there have certainly been enough disputed reports about missing Soviet nukes. Of course there will be a generalized failure in society, power grid, food supplies, medical services, and the critically most important “social services” (heaven forbit the failing to mail checks to all those crackhead welfare mothers and drug addicted disability addicts), then Obama will declare marshal law and get his Russian and Chinese “friends” from the UN to come and help keep the peace since most of the US Military will be tied down in the Middle East cleaning up the mess created by the Syrian/Iranian-Israeli war.
We’ll have those “Warsaw Pact” T-72 MBTs and BMPs cruising the streets of our cities sooner or later.
And the “internment camps”, well they will have to build more of them ’cause the ones they have got will already be full with all the conservative “terrorists” (remember them from the Tea Parties and Town Hall healthcare debates).
Just an example of course, or perhaps we’ll get there by these “arms control” negotiations, taking all the warheads off the Minuteman ICBMs, and all the boomers back in port, after all we couldn’t afford to keep them ready anyway, what with the health care/housing/food/education/entertainment needs of the disabled masses taking precedence over something as silly as “National Security”.
I don’t trust the dems at all. the pubbies should do their best to shut down everything the dems put up.
well I have not stated that correctly. the pubbies will do nothing of their own volition –in the interests of the country. rather their constituents–us–have to force them to do the right thing. which is block all democratic legislation.
why? because in the middle of all these democratic bills will be slipped language that implement junk that nobody wants.
I’ve probably said this before but they have already set up the panel to oversee the others. It was put into HR-1, the Stimulus bill in SEC 804. “There is hereby established a Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research “.
Comparative Effectiveness is the euphemism commonly used for deciding whose benefits get cut and where in a National healthcare system. The House version of the Healthcare bill would set up two more “Comparative Effectiveness” groups.
None of these, so far, are in other than advisory roles but that could be changed in a trice by a couple of lines in some other totally unrelated 1000 page monster of a bill.
The only problem with his token bill, other than the cost, will be that it will almost certainly create another government department with continuing costs, which will be re-funded in giant omnibus bills from now until the sun is a cold lump of coal about the size of your forehead.
Bill
Keep in mind that Buraq Hussein Obama is a particularly skilled liar [a career necessity for any politician but particularly one of the far Left]. All along he has been making promises about his health care bill that have been totally disconnected from HR 3200 which is the only bill that is coming up for a vote. Watch the bill. And keep in mind that the Democrats have not read the bill, will not read the bill, and will have no idea what is in any amended version until after it has been signed. And that they are deeply proud of their deliberate ignorance and the service that said ignorance is to ‘Teh One’.
This goes beyond the matter of healthcare, just as in WW II the Battle of Midway was about far more than who owned that little bit of coral. Any check placed in the path of HR 3200 is a check on the imposition of the absolute power of the State on the United States. He will not tolerate this. This is a man who has already amply demonstrated his contempt for the law and the Constitution. Now is not the time for self-congratulations. It is a time to redouble our efforts, and to keep a wary eye on him and his minions.
It will not be safe to lower our guard even a little, and assume that the check and balance mechanisms of Constitutional government can hold the line; until this entire lot of TWANLOC are out of office, dead, and buried with wooden stakes in their hearts through at least a dozen full moon cycles.
Assume that this is a trick, and keep hurting the enemy politically.
And speaking of hurting the enemy. Be warned that the enemy has been using false flag operations.
The Democratic HQ in Denver was vandalized a week ago, and after 11 plate glass windows were broken and an anti-ObamaMengeleCare poster was stuck on the outside, the Democratic chairman held a press conference complaining about the violence. The problem for her was that unbeknownst to her, the police had caught one of the two perpetrators in the act. And he was a paid Democrat activist with ties to several campaigns, the SEIU, and the party.
http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_13199902
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/25/fake-hate-crime-alert-leftists-vandalize-denver-democrat-hq-dems-smeared-obamacare-foes/
I will note that since the story broke, it has been revealed that Schwenkler is a M to F transexual, and activists have charged that the arrest is a right wing attack on the transgendered. Narrative above all!
Now the Democrats are claiming death threats against members of Congress. An ObamaMengeleCare supporter in Grand Junction Colorado got into a verbal dispute with a Patriot, and charged that the Patriot had threatened the life of Rep. John Salazar [D-Colo 3rd] an Obama minion. Unfortunately for the Leftist, there were plenty of witnesses, including a Grand Junction Police Officer who testified that no such threat was made.
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_13242589
They will cheat, lie, and perjure themselves to win. Assume that any concession is a trick.
Subotai Bahadur
Wrichard writes: “In the struggle against the Death Panels, each person attended the Town Halls as himself.”
Norman Rockwell endured a lot of scorn for his artwork, but there is increasing appreciation of his vision and art. Wrichard’s comment reminded me, as I’m sure it did other readers, of Rockwell’s iconic paintings of town hall meetings and public gatherings that depict earnest, intelligent, and diverse Americans engaged in the work of being . . . free people, and Americans. No condescension there, only a sure vision of individuals who are also members of a community.
For a survey of paintings, see The Norman Rockwell Museum:
http://www.nrm.org/page233
About the GOP: It has no health care policy or plan that I can see. I visited the web site to check.
The GOP needs four or five clear policy points that it clicks off over and over regarding a health care policy. “Hands off our seniors” etc. is not a policy, just a slogan.
#8 Amit…”Obama is learning, and will continue to learn, that he is not the Sovereign of America…” If Obama had to “learn” that, he has never in any meaningful way been an American, no matter where on this terraqueous orb his mother might have been when her water broke.
As for Wrechard’s comment, with all due respect I have to say that we should leave the emotional lability to the Andrew Sullivan’s of the world. Certainly I was guilty myself during 2003-2004, when the “winds of change” really did seem to be blowing, with their “purple fingers” and “color revolutions,” of indulging in a bit of self-satisfaction that History really was on our side. I think now, though, that that bit of “cheap grace” that conservatives experienced then set them up for the almost clinical depression that set in during 2005 and later, and made them unable to counter the inanities of the MSM freakshow that was just finding its legs.
If this is a political victory, all well and good, and if the “Silent Majority” has been roused and will remain vigilant, all the better. What I fear, however, is that the point of Obama’s seemingly amateurish frontal assault wasn’t about taking and holding ground as much as it was establishing a new language of American political discourse. The problem with the Western Way of War, of course, is that VDH’s hoplites eventually have to go back to their farms.
Instead of “The People” causing the retreat, I prefer “concerned citizens.”
We’ve been dibasing citizenship for decades. Its original American meaning was a responsible person with a stake in good government who created that government, monitored it, justified it, OWNED it. We’ve diluted the electorate (Whiskey has a point about sufferage) even to illegal aliens. We’ve isolated citizens from the levels of power – look at the jury selection and instructions process – the lawyers decide within the court rooms, not the citizens on the jury panel.
Our cry should not be “power to the people” but “citizens are the power.”
As to the tactics at hand, I suspect we’ll see a final health care bill analogous to the last energy bill. It will be nothing but pork and solve nothing but compound the existing tensions and shortcomings.
Oh, they’ll remain aroused – you betcha.
The people who are angry are not teenagers or college students. They are serious people who have spent a lifetime building the American dream. Think mama bear with cubs.
I don’t think we’ll see anything that resembles a health bill while Obama’s in office. Whatever is in it the people will tear it to shreds. Then they’ll march.
Let them eat cake? That turned out pretty good, didn’t it?
If you think about it, this would not be the first “peoples’ victory.”
You could add to that column the defeat of the Presidential Campaign of John Kerry which was done at the hands of the Swift Boat Veteran’s for Truth. Recall that their campaign was quietly opposed by the Republican Party.
You could also add the defeat of Bush’s nomination of Harriet Miers, and the defeat of Bush’s immigration reform.
Citizens, acting outside the establishment can still exercise power. That’s encouraging.
Or as obammy would call us, ‘Wee Wee, The People’…
Obama has been reading his Lenin. If I remember this correctly, after the Bolshevik coup of 1917, and the implementation of their radical economic policies, by 1921 the Russian economy was in serious trouble. Lenin decided to pull back, or delay some of his policies. This, of course, infuriated the radicals. Lenin replied with his “short term tactics versus long term strategy.” In short, short term, ie., temporary, changes were needed if the Bolsheviks were to REMAIN IN POWER because in order to implement their long term strategy they had to BE IN POWER.
The change is merely temporary in order to shore up his power and reorganize his forces.
Where’s the leadership in the Republican party to turn this grass roots uprising against Obamacare into a true conservative “citizen power” movement and push back against bigger government intrusion into Americans lives? Snow, Grassely, Graham and McCain will sell us out as they are entrenched in the current broken system. The RINO’s should be run out of the party if there’s to be an effective alternative to the social democrats plans to create a nanny state. I see no national leadership on the Republican side that’s capable of rallying the independents and conservatives or pushing the RINO’s to get out. Michael Steel seems totally ineffective as a mouth piece for conservatives. Maybe its time for a new conservative political party to be formed to take on the broken system of governance and crony capitalism that now rules.We need a leader that’s articulate like Rush and has the energy to bring this coalition of angry citizens into a cohesive force for saving America from the socialists. Who will emerge to wave the flag?
Their assault has been blunted. Now we must counterattack.
SIGINT @ 32:
Hopefully, Sarah Palin or someone like her. [Now, I am going to duck,cover and run from the room.]
SIGINT,
I disagree. What you are proposing is to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Refuse to talk to or deal with elected Republicans and retreat destroying the Republican Party in the hope that something better will arise on its ashes? That is exactly the same advice that David Axelrod would give us if he logged in here. It is the equivalent of the same attitude that the Left has towards Western Civilization, burn it all down and hope that some glorious utopia replaces it. We have two political parties. We need to rally the support of millions of citizens. This is a Democracy. More to the point; we believe in it being a Democracy. The chants of RINO on this site, and Malkin’s and others, are what crippled McCain and allowed Obama, with enormous help from Acorn and the Media, to get into the White House. Those who said that McCain was not good enough were wrong then and you are wrong now.
For one thing conflating Snow with the others is a rhetorical trick to predetermine the result. Olympia Snow is closer to Arlen Spector than to John McCain in her voting record and temperament. Will these politicians respond to serious pressure from below that is phrased in a manner that engages the majority and does not offend them? Probably the answer is yes. It is our responsibility to do the hard work of engaging in local politics, on State party committees, town councils, school boards and election boards, where real control of the political machinery rests in America. It is also our responsibility to be vigilant for efforts by the Left to discredit us either through Moby operations or MSM focus on fringe elements. There are those who will try to hijack the popular alternative to Statism for racist or other reprehensible purposes.
Until now most of the voters have been more afraid of right wing bigots than of left wing bigots. That may be changing. We should not “split the difference” but we do need to assure the voters that we are safe and remind them how, when you strip away the MSM demonizing, just how safe and good GWB was.
The symbiotic connection between the governing elites and the underclasses looking for freebies has always been the problem with democratic society. Ask Chavez for details. I think this applies to both the Democrats and the Democrat wanna be Republicans.
It would seem that even in Venezuela, the disenchantment is growing, the hopey-changey thing has a short lifespan, as the freebies never seem to show, and the food gets harder to find.
In a truly authoritarian society, like Iran, it would be time for the gulags and guillotines as the promises go unkempt. When you have an armed populace, you have an entirely different problem making the communism stick.
It’s all just the modern version of the same old tired communist dictator’s song.
Just came back from my school’s gala dinner with LKY. I’m sorry to report I was unable to ask him the questions members of the club requested. There were plenty of thought provoking questions involving China and India, though on hindsight I really should have gotten in front of local writer Catherine Lim and asked a balancing question about the West instead of enduring another inane episode of verbal fencing about local politics.
A bombshell was dropped by my dean though. Former UN Secretary-General (and crook) Kofi Annan is coming to my school as a lecturer! Next Feb, in fact. That gives me about 3 months to be a pest. ^_^
Lee Kuan Yew had plenty to say about the usefulness of authoritarianism in ‘getting things done’, citing examples from India and China, and pointing to the difference between the development of the two nations. However, his liberal sympathies poked out occasionally, when he insisted that if his party ever got soft and incompetent, they deserve to LOSE an election.
It seems he is also deadly afraid of that most insidious democratic disease… of the majority stealing from the minority, or from the future. And said so quite openly.
I doubt we shall ever see such blunt honesty from a politician from the West.
Watch for bills to go thru both House and Senate without a public option, but with the other 80% of the crapola intact tho maybe hidden in confusing verbiage or left to the regulatory system to write.
But, beware the Conference Report!! That is what really matters, it’s negotiated behind closed doors and then sprung on the 2 Houses to either adopt or reject. Even if an item was in neither House’s original bill, the conferees and create it de novo and put it in the Conference Report.
Anything that even remotely resembles what we have seen so far will be a policy victory for the left, they will write the regs and get the judicial interpretaions they need and lock it all down before the end of Obama’s (first) term. the Blue Dogs will feel they can tell their constituenst they stopped the public option, and then fold like a cheap suit when Rahm puts it to them. Some GOP moderates will go along, esp in the Senate. Vote may look like Cap-and-trade or Stimulus, but it’ll pass and there’ll be hell to pay for a generation or more.
“how, when you strip away the MSM demonizing, just how safe and good GWB was.”
I’ve been a defender of GWB through his lowest points of popularity. I’ve been called names for it and vilified, but when I asked for facts to prove what he did that was so evil, I would nearly always get some comment like “if you don’t know that, then you’re too dumb to be posting here.”
Now that there’s been at least a LITTLE time to reflect on the man’s performance and compare it to how his successor is shaping up, I’m starting to form some firmer opinions about him. And us. Some points:
1) Whatever else you might say, he and Cheney were instrumental in staving off the cresting wave of jihadi attacks. They projected a strong international image (if not always friendly and squishy) and they took concrete action. That last alone is probably more than we’ll ever see out of any Dems that are in power now.
2) He had more liberal leanings that I would have liked in several areas. He joined the Left in defeatism regarding illegal immigration. Nobody has ever demonstrated to my satisfaction why illegal immigrants are not shipped back to their country of origin (on their own dime when possible) immediately upon discovery.
3) Aside from Obama, he was the most free-spending pol I ever saw. Though in his case, it appeared to be purely to grease the wheels for his international efforts. But I’ll give him an F-minus for the prescription drug benefit, which will help suck us dry for as long as we remain a country.
Right now, I don’t even think health care is the major issue facing us. It’s the economy, stupid. Or rather, it’s the fiscal disaster that many people seem to think is now okay. It is not. It is bad enough that I’m worried about our long-term ability to remain an independent country. If Obama has his way, the national debt (not deficit, but DEBT) will nearly double in 9 years. If that turns out to be true, we will very shortly thereafter cease to be a political entity.
The Russians and Chinese are already pushing to dump the dollar as reserve currency. China and Japan have slowed or ceased buying treasuries. The economy is currently in the tank, treasury receipts have cratered and nobody knows exactly how bad it is just yet, and all over the world I’m reading articles about how national leaders are getting concerned about their dollar reserve holdings.
To top all that off, 7 of the 10 shareholders in the FED are in Europe. What do they care if they destroy us?
Mark my words: when United States government debt begins to be denominated in some currency other than dollars, that will be the beginning of the end. Or maybe the middle. Now would be a great time to buy a farm and make sure you have a few guns, bullets, and extra foodstuffs around.
This is the stuff that’s been crowding the health care debate out of my head, partly because health care is and has been front and center for some time now, with not a lot of movement. It feels like a distraction to me. Have you guys looked at the incredible outlays that have gone down since Obama hit the oval office? It’s like it’s Christmas or something. And everybody is arguing over the difference between a public option and a co-op.
Don’t get me wrong, I hate anything resembling Obama’s bill and I hope it flames out spectacularly…but equally bad or worse things are happening and everybody just seems so complacent about it.
I have had a general sense of foreboding since early spring, and lately it’s begun to deepen. I sincerely hope I’m wrong.
Agoraphobic Plumber said:
“I’ve been a defender of GWB through his lowest points of popularity. I’ve been called names for it and vilified, but when I asked for facts to prove what he did that was so evil, I would nearly always get some comment like “if you don’t know that, then you’re too dumb to be posting here.””
I remain a big fan of GWB and proud that I voted for him. I’m also proud that I voted against Obama. I would suggest to Agoraphobic Plumber that he not waste his time arguing with moonbats
Don’t confuse ignorance for stupidity.
Ignorance can be cured through education and the application of reason. Stupidity is much harder to fight against and tends to be immune to facts and rationality.
Mark Razak said:
“Obama has been reading his Lenin…. ….temporary, changes were needed if the Bolsheviks were to REMAIN IN POWER because in order to implement their long term strategy they had to BE IN POWER.”
Yup, that sums it up nicely. The danger does not pass until after Obama is out of office –AND– the MSM is reformed or neutralized by the Internet. The hope is there will be something left to salvage after Obama goes away.
I don’t get it. Why is he chickening out, who does he think he is, Sarah Palin? Is the rest of the bill any better than the “public option”? In for a dime, in for a hundred trillion dollars, Obama.
Guess it will boil down to this: who are the Blue Dogs more scared of, Rahm or their consitituants?
Wanna bet that the districts of the Blue Dogs will be the focus of ACORN voter registration efforts?
Agoraphobic Plumber @ 39:
You are not. What is happening behind the scenes? 9/11 being turned into a 0bamanation Fest for “Der 0bamaJugend”? I’m sorry, that was wrong, “Volunteers in Service to the King”? Is that it? The Internet Cybersecurity bill? HR 645 – which is the FEMA facilties on unused military bases, more commonly known in my circles as the ‘Concentration Camp Infrastructure Bill’ or ‘Bill Ayers Camps’? There is a whole lot that is reminiscent of Oz = ‘Don’t pay attention to the man behind the curtain!’
There is so much that has come so fast and furiously, it is hard to keep up. Why? What is the rush? First we have to rebuild the economy, right? If “He” was sane and an American, you would think that would be the first item of business, right?
The public option is not off the table until Congress and the White House are occupied by very different people.
Communism never died. It was just re-branded.
LOTM…”Refuse to talk to or deal with elected Republicans and retreat destroying the Republican Party in the hope that something better will arise on its ashes? That is exactly the same advice that David Axelrod would give us if he logged in here. It is the equivalent of the same attitude that the Left has towards Western Civilization, burn it all down and hope that some glorious utopia replaces it.”
I didn’t say that we should refuse to talk to or deal with the elected RINO’s …what I said is that we should “run them out” and that’s a process where they are fully revealed to be what they are, Republicans In Name Only. This could be a healthy endeavor like taking a bath after rolling around with the pigs. Why is it that the current Republican leadership ie; McCain is so willing to compromise on what the Democrat’s are pushing…why is there no spine when it comes to saying no to TARP, NO to the Stimulus, NO to illegal immigration and open borders and NO to messing with health care? You tell me how you can remake the Republican party with a conservative platform(which it used to represent) while you have RINO “lifers” in the Congress that have been fully corrupted by the legislative process that depends on special interest lobbying and campaign contributions.
#10 Clioman; now what?
Good question. And the answer is as follows:
Someone who faces a certain town in the Middle East five times per day arranges for somewhere in the West to receive a little present; and the result is more like 8/6/1945 (to use the illogical American convention) than 9/11/2001.
I hope that the “somewhere in the West” is somewhere in the USA rather than in another Western country. Why? Because it would be the USA’s fault. And why is that? Because the price of oil, the only worthwhile export of the countries that would be the perpetrators of such an act, is oil; and America’s gluttony for oil keeps the world price high at the same time as consumption being high also. Because the American government actually financed one branch of the enemy in an ill-fated attempt to cause embarrassment to the Soviet Union. Because the American government clumsily manipulated Iranian politics in order to put into power a demagogue friendly to American business interests, thus leading eventually to the takeover of Iran by fundamentalists. Because having managed that bit of stupidity, the American government helped a psychopath to wage war on an already hostile Iran, thus further alienating absolutely everyone in the Middle East. Because when that same psychopath invaded another sovereign nation the American government stopped before finishing the job. And most especially, because the response of the American government (yes, I do mean Mr. Bush) was to attack a country that had nothing to do with it, and not attack the country that financed the attack and supplied all the people that carried it out. And why was that? Because Bush, his family and his cronies would have lost money by attacking the real culprits.
That’s why I hope that the first 1E6 (or so) Westerners to trigger the Three Conjectures are Americans. Your leaders will have caused said conjectures to come into effect. And so will the American people, by pissing away your own oil reserves in your grotesquely oversized cars and then starting on those of the Middle East.
The response to 9/11 ought to have been the sudden conversion of the Black Stone to gravel, along with the sudden disappearance of the King of Mordor’s palace with him in it. Why wasn’t it? Money. The Bush family’s money.
You elected him, and you elected the empty suit that followed him. Therefore it ought to be you, America, that takes the consequences.
#45 SIGINT
You can talk about RINO’s and blue dog Democrats all you want, but I think that’s just a distraction from the true dynamics of our current dysfunctional political system.
Unfortunately, we do have a true political class now. And despite their stated differences, a liberal Democratic Congressman and a conservative Republican Congressman have more in common with one another than they do with the vast majority of people that they supposedly represent. And when it really comes down to it, they will protect their own rather than the little people like us. Its all sleight of hand–play on the superstitions of the rubes.
Its time for the majority of them to be replaced, and for people like Rep. Rangel to be placed in prison for the rest of their lives. But it won’t happen. What is it? “Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.” And that is what scares them–that the ones who have committed no political sins will indeed stone them to death.
“”"”"” Unfortunately, we do have a true political class now. “”"”"”
And pollsters have started to poll this “political class” separately. As a result, they have highlighted the dramatic divide between what citizens want, and what the political class wants.
I think this was a profound and important move and milestone for polling: by isolating the political class – like medical researchers isolating a virus — they can provide an excellent and effective means to keep driving home the chasm between the people and their “leaders.”
I hope that “political class” polling becomes a regular, frequent and consistent thing among pollsters.
The strategy behind the “health care” bill is to install framework. BO knows that if he makes a big deal about the public option and gets defeated it wasn’t what he really wanted out of the legislation. But it gives him cover for his real goal. He wants the framework to be able to regulate the industry in much the same manner as the EPA. Once the framework is in place the public option is Medicare and it will be a crisis in that which necessitates the merger and BAM! He gets everything he wants.
NO “health care” legislation at all is the only true victory. All else is just a delay in the annihilation of liberty.
Fletcher, hope you have calmed down now.
Some interesting juxtaposition there between some mouldy old lefty talking points and what I perceive to be your inherent libertarian hawkism.
Interesting that you call the support of the Mujahideen “ill-fated” – it actually worked rather splendidly. True, a subset of the Mujahideen went on to integrate with al-Qaeda – but many more ended up fighting each other in the feudal nightmare of Afghanistan’s interregnum, and many of those are now allies in the Afghan establishment.
America’s gluttony is rapidly being overtaken by that of China. Do they now deserve the nuke instead of the US?
Lastly – the easy/lazy criticism of Bush is that the Iraq war was a misguided response to 9/11 – of course, there were more than 20 reasons given by Congress for the authorisation of force against Iraq, and none of them had anything to do with 9/11. The overwhelming concern at the time was the potential proliferation of WMDs – the UN had a list of items they had seen , and no confirmation that Saddam had destrroyed any of them.
Polls indicate that the people reject President Obama’s policies by a substantial margin and his job approval rating has fallen below fifty percent, while his personal popularity has remained relatively high. This seems a contradiction, so I asked a woman why she liked Obama. She thought a moment, then said:
Obama brings us hope and change
He makes me feel so very strange
I like him
Obama brings us change and hope
The dreams he dreams are vast in scope
I like him
I know the country that we knew
Will be no more when he gets through
But lordy how I’m telling you
I like him
But will the Obama presidency change for the worse the country we knew? Will the country we knew be no more? I suspect we can keep the worst from happening. A man I know, who voted for him, expresses a beginnings of doubt.
Obama brings us hope and change
And though his plans are off the range
I like him
Obama brings us change and hope
And while I’d not give him more rope
I like him
Of course we’ll have to rein him in
To keep the country like its been
With luck he’ll not be Ho Chi Minh
I like him
But then when I think of the crimes
In other places other times
What he’ll do now will surely pale
With what will happen if we fail
To guard our liberties and homes
So when the writers write their tomes
About the times we live in now
The people then won’t scrape and bow
And sing Obama, Father’s Son
We know you surely are the One
And though my doubts have now begun
I like him
Charles Krauthammer had a column the other day about how they could take the public option off the table but still get everything they want later. JFSanders’ comment @49 that they will “regulate the industry in much the same manner as the EPA” reminded me of it. In the name of reform, and to address the perennial complaints about health insurance, they will require insurance companies to provide it universally and permanently. You won’t ever have to worry about losing coverage or being denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. The insurance companies will agree to this because the government will guarantee them two new massive income streams: (1)all the millions of young and healthy people who currently opt not to purchase health insurance will be forced to buy it, and (2)all the poor people who can’t afford it but are currently not eligible for Medicaid will be subsidized by the government. This will keep health insurance in the hands of the private sector but of course government regulation will prevent them from being able to limit their liability in any way. Naturally this can only work for a very short time, even with onerous tax hikes, before financial catastrophe looms at which time the government will take over and impose rationing. But the hope will be that it will work for just long enough to get everybody dependent on it, for once granted, guaranteed universal healthcare will never be given up. They got hooked on it in Britain; they got hooked on it in Canada; now they ration. And so will we, says CK.
Oops, Kar = Karen Yvonne.
A. Plumber: I am with you on Bush. Pure Stalinist agitprop and direct action campaigns, straight out of the 1930′s. Speak poorly of this nation that they got away with it.
So where’s the hard hitting anti Obama hue and cry coming from on the health care issue (contrived by Rahm Emanuel)… from ordinary citizens not the Republican party. Where’s the Republican leadership on this?? Where’s McCain ? AWOL!! Time for new leadership and maybe a new party despite what LOTM claims…we do need “change we can believe in” and when you look at the profiles out there its damn slim.
SIGINT,
While I believe your heart is in the right place I think that your tactics might prove insufficiently subtle or nuanced for a time when we are not in a revolution but engaged in traditional politics, of a sort. If those terms don’t get a rise out of you then hurry to a Dr and get your blood pressure checked. The worst thing you can say about most politicians is that they know the craft of reading the public mood better then they know the meaning of the Constitution. In some cases they really do know better but time and process have sucked them in. If people, not just conservative ideologues, but first people offended by corruption and deceit, get control of the local political machinery, then the party leadership, in both parties, will respond and cast out the influence of the Soros/Kos/Move On/HuffPo extremists.
“I remain a big fan of GWB and proud that I voted for him. I’m also proud that I voted against Obama. I would suggest to Agoraphobic Plumber that he not waste his time arguing with moonbats
Don’t confuse ignorance for stupidity.
Ignorance can be cured through education and the application of reason. Stupidity is much harder to fight against and tends to be immune to facts and rationality.”
Your point is taken, but I keep thinking of myself about 10 or 15 years ago. My earlier moonbat incarnation vilified conservatives in some pretty crude terms, even as they patiently tried to make me see reason. Eventually I did. There are many moonbats out there that are future rational people, and turning them should be one of our priorities.
There is a fresh batch of moonbats out of school every year. The success of the conservative movement depends heavily on getting enough of those people to see the light (sooner or later) to balance the next year’s flock of moonbats. The earlier we can turn them on average, the greater the percentage of the population will see things our way and the safer we’ll be from national health care, amnesty for illegals, massive government spending and so forth.
Speaking only for myself, it took YEARS of effort by a number of people, plus my own curiosity driving me to subject myself to what I thought was that evil prick Rush Limbaugh and other conservative radio hosts (I pretended it was a thought experiment or something but I now think it was simply my natural conservative bent reemerging after being smacked down for so long by my public education). I don’t want to be responsible for allowing any moonbats to remain so if they can be “saved”.
$.02
Regarding RINOs, they’re an asset not a liability. Please allow me to explain.
As TCobb said, we do have a political class and the RINOs and Dems are not the only members of it. Most of the GOP leadership is in it too, and a great deal of the GOPs problems come from that.
There’s fequent talk (I’ve contributed some myself I admit) of a rift in the GOP between Social conservatives and Libertarians. But that’s not the important rift. The important rift is between the GOP political elites and the regular citizens. The party elites are perfectly okay with D.C. gobbling up the entire country – that’s their town and it’s good for their business.
When it comes to taking back the country, I think we need to start by taking back the GOP. Run out the political class and do away with this notion of a new aristocracy. Put the GOP under the control of citizens again so it is responsive to their needs and not the needs of the political industry.
Which gets back to how RINOs are an asset. They are the quintesential Quislings, always willing to think the allegator will eat them last if they cooperate. So promise to eat them last and use them to help oust the Pols. Because it’s not the RINOs that are the problem. Not really. They’re just really infuriating. But the real problem is the party leadership that won’t actively pursue a policy of shrinking the power and influence of the Federal Government. We need to replace that leadership with people who will essentially go into Washington D.C. and dismantle it so they can go home and live in peace.
krontegag – Sorry; I forgot the earliest and probably worst example of American foreign policy stupidity, this time caused by hostility towards Britain and France and directly leading to Arab nationalism and the current phase of jihad. I refer to Suez.
As for the reasons given for the Iraq invasion; well, after 9/11 something had to be done to show American toughness – especially after the “Leader of the Free World” spent the first few hours after the attack flying all over the country in a panic, and after his “rabbit in the headlights” immediate response when told.
Of course, it couldn’t be the right something. That might have affected oil company profits, after all.
Watching Obama langorously tap dance his way through his efforts to ram health care reform down our throats, the thought keeps occurring to wonder what the entities who control Obama — the money men / countries who bought him his Presidency — want. I really don’t think that Saudi Arabia or Russa or China, to name three potential candidates as puppeteers — give a hoot in hell *what* sort of health care Americans have. I think the whole thing was a ploy to amass more power in the office of the Presidency, another step towards a nation of brown shirts tattling on their neighbors and Big Brother telling us how to behave and what to think.
Obama is going to be distracted now as he tries to alibi his way out of the corner he has painted himself into. Non-Americans simply do not understand our Constitution, and its guarantees of freedom of speech and the right to bear arms. Whoever bought Obama his Presidency is *not* going to understand why he can’t (1) shut the Tea Partiers up (in jail if need be), (2) physically intimidate a la Tienamen Square public protesters, and (3) buy off and/or bribe more people to be more accommodating (which, after all, they are probably still funding Obama’s bribery efforts).
If it were me, I’d also be asking the Enabler in Chief why the hell he can’t hire more competent staff and quit making all these damned silly mistakes and stumbles which make him look even more green, untested and naive than one would have ever thought possible. Although I suppose if it’s Russia that’s pulling the Obama-dancing-strings, Putin wouldn’t mind a bit if Obama looks like a herky-jerky fool.