Mark Steyn says the debate over healthcare is really a squabble over jurisdiction. “I think Sarah Palin’s “death panel” coinage clarified the stakes and resonated in a way that “rationing” and other lingo never quite did.”
What matters is the concept of a government “panel.” Right now, if I want a hip replacement, it’s between me and my doctor; the government does not have a seat at the table. The minute it does, my hip’s needs are subordinate to national hip policy, which in turn is subordinate to macro budgetary considerations. … You’re accepting that the state has jurisdiction over your hip, and your knee, and your prostate and everything else. And once you accept that proposition the fellows who get to make the “ruling” are, ultimately, a death panel.
But why stop there?
Why not bring other faceless people, bureaucrats or not, into the discussion? The Foxnation says that Obamacare will pay ‘Community Organizations’ to monitor your weight. But just who these “Community Organizations” are going to be is still shrouded in mystery.
The health care reform bill approved by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee (HELP) would provide federal grants to state and local governments and a “national network of community-based organizations” to “promote healthy living and reduce disparities” and to monitor people’s weight, eating, exercise habits and other individual behaviors that affect health at the community level. The language instituting the program, entitled “Community Transformation Grants,” is on pages 382-387 of the bill as posted on the committee’s Web site.
The link to the PDF is here. On on the indicated pages it says some of the things the community organizations may be interested in monitoring are:
TYPES OF MEASURES.—In carrying out subparagraph (A), the eligible entity shall,with respect to residents in the community, measure—
(i) decreases in weight;
(ii) increases in proper nutrition;
(iii) increases in physical activity;
(iv) decreases in tobacco use prevalence;
What would be the point of collecting this information if it isn’t going to be used? Would the panels be interested in utilizing this data? Who are these eligible entities who will find the time to busy themselves with what you weigh, eat, do or smoke? CNS reports that they will be unspecified groups of private citizens receiving government money. Their exact composition is yet to be determined.
“Neither the White House nor the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pension (HELP) Committee responded to inquiries from CNSNews.com about exactly what organzations would be eligible for the grants as a “national network of community-based organzations” and exactly how these community-based organizations would operate. …Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) said that it is possible that the controversial group ACORN could qualify for the available grants. “I don’t believe so, but they could be,” Dodd told CNSNews.com, in an earlier interview. “I just don’t want to say categorically it’s the case.”
It is yet one of the mysteries which people who attend Town Halls are eager to get answers to. Howard Dean remarked that the debate over health care reform “is over” and that the Town Halls are all about anger from people whose time is past. Maybe it is. But which side won and whose time is past? Maybe that’s yet to be determined also.
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The more one learns of Obamacare (and clearly the White House does not want us to get a really good idea of what they would accept from the Congress), the scarier it gets. Add to this realization another: the stimulus package was put together by the same consortium of power-hungry, self-perpetuating thugs and you realize we’ve now had seven months of severe mis-governance. It is truly time for America’s second revolution — a bloodless one, this time, a cyberevolution. Let’s roll! F
In Orwell’s 1984, didn’t Winston get his butt chewed by a block warden for not being as enthusiastic as expected during morning calisthenics? Imagine having an ACORN cadre overseeing YOUR diet and exercise habits. First offense, you get a “But it’s for your own good, see?” And after that, out comes the truncheon. You WILL be healthy, or suffer the consequences…
Why hasn’t anyone invoked the same argument abortion proponents espouse. My body, my right…
Same argument really. Hands off my body.
Why does the left not see this ridiculous double standard. The same persons who want anyone to be able to get an abortion without notifying so much as even a parent also want a health care system that micro-meddles into every aspect of your life.
For the life of me, I can’t find the story now (and don’t have a spare hour or two to spend looking for it), but somewhat recently (within the last 6 months), I seem to recall a story from Great Britain where some nabob bureaucrat went into a citizen’s home to check the contents of said citizen’s refrigerator … all for “health reasons” (i.e. they were not executing a warrant looking for William Jefferson’s $90K in cash).
So, yeah, it’s not just the WHAT of the monitoring, it’s not even just WHO is doing the monitoring, it’s not even just the WHY of the monitoring, it’s also the HOW as well. All of the above. I can’t for the life of me imagine why, if they get the What, the Who, and the Why secured, they would possibly stop short of the How of demanding access to your house and all your other property. Any Twinkies stashed away in the shoebox in the back of the closet? A pack of cigs taped to the garage rafters? Have you exceeded your sugar ration for this month, Citizen Comrade?
I only half-jest about the scenarios above. The rational question to ask is, if they can get a toehold by establishing the monitor networks, why would they stop with anything voluntary when compulsory is just soooo much more … whatever justification they give for it? and why would they stop with requiring you to visit the panel when it is just soooo much more … thorough … for the nice people from the “national network of community-based organizations” to visit you instead? Access to your residence and all your private property is just too, too tempting a target. Better still if you are so foolish as to keep the Twinkies stash next to your gun. Or your copy of “Liberty and Tyranny” in plain sight. You will be kissing all of them goodbye.
Toehold. Foothold. Stronghold.
P.S. If you thought alien body probes were terrifying and degrading, just wait till it’s Howard Dean doing it.
I wonder how many rinos will roll over and allow us to fall prey to this…
I’m glad Palin is speaking up, but boy she is taking it from both sides on this. (Although I dare say that Charles Johnson at LGF is not really on ‘our side’…very derisive of the Tea Parties, and very condescending toward Palin about the ‘death panels’.)
I am once again reminded of Tocqueville’s observations of a young U.S. This time, I recall the numerous civic organizations that fulfill, or seek to fulfill, the goals that might otherwise be the purview of government social programs. I am now forming a much clearer image of the “community organizer” or “community organization” by means of contrast with the “civic organization”.
I think many people might have thought of Obama’s community organizer days as somehow being akin to working in leadership at the local Kawanis Club, or some such thing. As it turns out, it is really something quite… dare I say… sinister? They are turning out to be organs of the government, when their people are in the government. When they aren’t attempting to elect their people into power, they are agitating for some sort of ‘cultural change’, or rather softening the field for the efforts to come.
My biggest problem with the “Hope and Change” rhetoric has always been the underlying notion that Obama was intent on changing America from his thrown. If America is to change, it should be done by her people.
I love America for my Liberty. If my Liberty is taken…
Far as I’m concerned the whole mess is unconstitutional, regardless of the commerce clause. We need a new states rights movement, without the old racism.
Sarah had it just right.
Little Johnny’s overweight
It coulda been something he ate
It coulda been he got his momma’s genes
It doesn’t matter to the One
What’s good for father’s good for son
He’s got to know what health care really means
His daddy now admits he smokes
That second hand endangers folks
And since this is the second time he’s sinned
His punishment is durance vile
Where he can contemplate the style
In which our organizers sniff the wind
Now mommy she is neither fat
Nor smokes and we are thankful that
She stays within herself and keeps the rules
Our Acorn people say that she
Is quite delightful company
And spies upon the kiddies in the schools
We’re getting there, we’re on our way
To having all the folks obey
Each rule and regulation that we pass
We have the plans and specs to build
The camps upon the land we’ve filled
Now all we need is cans of Zyklon gas
Let me guess, a network of community based programs capable of reaching diverse and multiple groups would not include any church. Regardless of ability to reach multiple people and a diverse groups. Wow I guess that the options here are limited to the YMCA, Elks clubs Masonic Temples or perhaps Little League Baseball or the Girl Scouts. I mean especially if ACORN cannot get involved.
Ha Right Senator Dodd.
Who do they find to write these things? What American mind could be so utterly devoid of appreciation for the constitutionally provided rights of the individual?
Oh yeah, wasn’t president Obama some sort of Constitutional Professor. No Doubt the author of such junk legislation learned about the constitution from some source. No Doubt it wasn’t the Constitution or the papers of the Constitutions Authors.
Well, “Community Organizations” and NGO’s are nothing new. The Bolsheviks and the Stalinist used them to great effect.
They are communist front organizations. They have always in this nation managed to suck up some government money, but not on the level like this.
We are at a point of extreme existential danger for the Republic. Let us not allow ourselves to imagine that Obama is inept, or that he is little more than the face of larger forces. Moreover, do not imagine that Obamacare has been defeated or that the tide has been irreversibly turned away from a Socialist revolution. We are in the middle of the very first skirmish, we ae not even through the first real battle yet.
We must pray that the GOP has the spine and the wisdom to stand firm, but their track record does not give one much confidence. Things will get much worse.
The next election will require a maximum effort by all patriots; the Democrats will go all out to corrupt it.
We are at a terrible point in our history, more so in some ways than the Civil War.
Let us not fool ourselves that this necessarily will move in our favor.
Walt strikes again!
Another gem, sir.
Just one minor, picayune observation: As I understand it, Zyklon B wasn’t in gaseous form in the can. It was pellets or granules, and the can was airtight; when the pellets were released and exposed to air, the chemical reaction was the release of hydrogen cyanide gas.
(BTW, how sick is it that I know about this? This is what studying WWII does to you, apparently.)
So maybe change the fourth to the last line to end with the word “decree” and then the last line can end with “Zyklon B.”
But then I feel like I’m quibbling with Ogden Nash. Who am I to say boo?
Bogie Wheel, if I may:
Toehold. Foothold. Stronghold.
Throttlehold.
…the Town Halls are all about anger from people whose time is past. Maybe it is. But which side won and whose time is past? Maybe that’s yet to be determined also.
Yes… the “progressives” may find that their time is past after the cycles of elections come again.
Hmm… more ways to shovel money into ACORN…
They’ve gone well beyond paying for the finance of the 2008 election support. They’re now making sure there’s a well financed machine in place for 2010 and 2012.
… A couple billion in campaign funds would go a long way towards swinging an election.
Bogie Wheel
Thanks for the kind words. I too am a WWII buff and know Zyklon B was in pellets, but I had to use poetic license. Zyklon B didn’t scan, and I didn’t have a rhyme for pellets. Of course the people who did that were zealots.
Right on.
But, I’d still like it better if the Republicans (anybody remember them?) put forth an alternative proposal clearly and concisely.
Which, I propose, is this:
HSA plans.
… with some increased government funding and mandates so that everyone is minimally covered.
That, with supporting details, IS IT.
For now, anyway, either dems or republicans can add to it later.
And I think it would sell.
He who ventures to quibble with Nash
may see his dentures nibble & gnash
bogie wheel
My apologies, sir. I somehow missed your suggestion to end the fourth from last line with decree so that the last line could end with Zyklon B. You are correct, that would have been much better. “Each rule and regulation and decree” I shall change it when I post it to my blog. Thanks for the correction. First drafts always need a bit of polish, and sometimes, as in this case, an eagle eyed editor.
Walt Erickson
Walt says:
I didn’t have a rhyme for pellets.
Come on Walt–how about “zealots?”
One of the staples of sitcoms involving life in the military or some sorta paramilitary force (e.g. the police) is the weigh in episode. Usually they are annual physicals and fun and hijinks abound as the fat member struggles to lose weight or fool the doctor. Now, this episode is coming to main street?
I wonder if faith based organizations will be allowed to monitor our diets, habits, and exercise regimens. Will splitting wood be counted as physical activity or must I show up at the appointed time for calisthenics? Oh no, high school gym class all over again.
One of the staples of sitcoms involving life in the military or some sorta paramilitary force (e.g. the police) is the weigh in episode. Usually they are annual physicals and fun and hijinks abound as the fat member struggles to lose weight or fool the doctor. Now, this episode is coming to main street?
1. In case anyone doesn’t already remember, the donut in Vincent D’Onofrio’s footlocker was just the beginning. The end was murder-suicide.
2. Do we get to sing “Doo Wah Diddy Diddy” when they force us to march?
3. Someone mention gym class? … “She makes me feel all kinda funny. Like when we used to climb the rope in gym class.”
(To which bogie wheel says again: “How sick is it that I know about this?”)
I still have yet to understand on what basis the right is so quiet about the government’s funding of ACORN and affiliates. It’s just outrageous –like Pol Pot charging murder victim’s families for the service of murdering their kin. how could such be legal anywhere north of Hell?
M*i*c – k*e*y M*o – u*s*e they sang –right?
Perhaps supermarket scanners will be used in the same way that pharmacy computers now operate in order to prevent people from refilling a prescription too early, or from trying to purchase as much pseudoephedrine as one can. Show up at the checkout with a pound of bacon or a carton of ice cream and your photo ID must be presented, a national database will be searched in order to prevent you from buying such “binge” items more often than once per month, and you’ll be required to sign a form before you can leave. I wonder what the black market price for mint-flavored Oreo cookies will be – because that could affect me drastically.
Well, I’m trying to laugh about all this. It isn’t easy. The greatest enemy of this government seems to have become its pesky citizens who don’t want to submit their sovereignty to a non-benign bureaucracy.
I still have yet to understand on what basis the right is so quiet about the government’s funding of ACORN and affiliates.
The basis could be, and probably is, the byzantine and deliberately obscurantist structure of ACORN and its affiliates. Unlike Gilbert & Sullivan’s “sisters and cousins” who numbered in the “dozens,” ACORN’s affiliates number in the hundreds. This allows them to play the shell game of (1) where is the money really going to and (2) what is being done with it.
Really, if you were *trying* to structure a criminal organization, this is just how you would do it.
So while plenty of people have no problem prosecuting Operation Rescue under RICO and stripping it of its tax-exempt status for “electioneering,” no one apparently has the cajones to touch ACORN, Project Vote, or any of the other tentacles of the beast.
Some animals are more equal and all that.
luddy – They did sing the Song of the Rodent in “Full Metal Jacket.” “Doo Wah Diddy Diddy” was “Stripes” (and about the only good thing in it … either I’m getting old or there has always been something unlikeably sleazy about Billy Murray and I just never picked up on it till recently. But “Groundhog Day” still stands … his character is *supposed* to be unlikeably sleazy.)
Walt, BLuddy, et al,
Pellets, we don’t need no stinkin pellet,
Say eet lak thees, hokays?
Pass on the mustard, keep the relish.
I can do a lot more than not write limmer-aches.
He he!!
Just so you know I read it, and the death panels will be convened to review data collected and collated by your friendly neighborhood community organizing network. If they get trained in end of life counseling that would save a lot of money.
It is never enough to say what a thing could be, it is imperative to say what this Health Insurance Scam reform MAY NOT BE.
When a “community organization” takes federal money, it no longer represents the community but rather represents the federal government. Even church organizations can get corrupted; they can care more about filling in federal paperwork than actually helping people. I was worried about Bush’s support for “faith based organizations” for exactly this reason; revolutionaries can use such a bureaucracy to boss other people around.
What we are seeing here is an extension of federal power through camouflaging its reach. “Community organizations” that take federal money are no more extensions of a community than the tentacles of an octopus are an extension of its prey.
“Zyklon B” was/is cyanogen bromide, which is a waxy solid. When stored under refridgeration, it is fairly stable. At room temperature it begins to cause itching of the skin and lachrymation.
Combined with an acid, and it produces hydrogen cyanide gas, which is generally fatal.
It is sometimes used in organic chemistry synthesis as a cyanation compound in certain reactions (which I spent my wasted youth doing for fun and profit). Can be very toxic if mis-handled.
Carry on, Mr. Erickson.
I will guarantee that if someone shows up on my front door step and tries to come in to check (fill in the blank), they will wind up with the following options…No, Hell no, and Bang. I recommend that they select the first choice.
Socialism/Communism is not welcome here!
Are we required to cooperate with “eligible entities”? What are the penalties for non-compliance?
If there is anything that history has taught us from an examination of the now gone 20th century, it is that the greatest evil comes from those who can best be described as “social engineers.” They come from all bands of the political spectrum. Lenin, Hitler, FDR, and the list continues.
He who claims the right to micromanage the life of everyone else is, in my opinion, a blight upon humanity who richly deserves to have a heavy caliber bullet collide with their head.
DISCLAIMER TO COMMENT #33 ABOVE
I do not and am not advocating illegal activity of any kind against anyone. All comments made by me have been filtered by beer and should be understood as being figurative rather than literal.
Zyklon B” was/is cyanogen bromide…
That’s the Left for you, always falling back on the same old bromides.
I read through pages 382-387. The “Community Transformation Grants” look ominous. First, these “community organizations” watch my weight. What will they be watching next, my opinions? This looks like a massive network of spies.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has a reputation for being nonpartisan technocrats; once it gets involved in an ideological endeavor, it may lose its objectivity. I’m not so sure the CDC would necessarily want to rely upon ideologically based organizations (called “community based organizations”) to send them data about the health habits of Americans. Garbage in, garbage out. The CDC must not be politicized!
34 Tcobb,
I’m with you friend, but beer bloats me and I do my filtering with good white wine – nothing political, I just like it. Keep up your good work here at the BC.
Brother Ned
bogie wheel,
Within living memory in England a man’s home was his castle and the King himself could not enter uninvited without showing cause before a magistrate and obtaining a warrant.
Anything can be done in the name of health. The Nuremburg Codes The Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour that set the legal basis for Nazi racial policy were considered part of the Public Health Code. Less then 50 years ago decent liberal people understood this. Listen to Spencer Tracy in Stanley Kramer’s Judgement at Nuremburg.
http://tinyurl.com/ohksvb
In The Lives of Others the Stasi agent has to sit in the attic in secrecy as he listens in to those suspected by the State. In the future the State will be able to insist on monitoring equipment everywhere, for your own good, and will feel free to censure any conduct that might impose a cost on the public purse. How will this differ from the world of Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four, with its two way telescreens?
Liberals often justify nuisance laws on seatbelts and smoking by saying that those who violate the policy will use the public hospitals so, “We will all have to pay.” When I ask who invited them to they lash out and accuse me of wanting to close all the hospitals and leave the poor defenseless. The natural instinct in the face of such idiocy is to either walk off in disgust or get physical. Either would please the adolescent ignoramuses. Like the bum on the subway they act as offensively as possible to preclude the possibility of being challenged.
Jefe @ 6:
And pray tell why do you think that disturbed individual is worthy of notice? It took me 30 minutes to go from registered at his blog to banned because I dared, DARED to disagree on some slight point. That clown has made himself irrelevant. Phhbt! LGF is just an echo chamber that has gotten rather self referential in very bad ways.
Wadeusaf @ 10:
Um, not sure for the last part. I cannot reach his records and find out what he actually taught. Anyone know any of his students? Peers? I mean besides Ayers. [snark] But for the 1st question, why do you ask? Hmm? Who are you to question? Hmm? You some kind of subversive?[/snark]
There is so much that we do not know about The 0bamanation but we are finding out the hard way, I suppose.
Mongoose @ 11:
I am still not sure that it will happen. There is still lots and lots of time for the ‘Black Swan’ to show up and cancel it. If ACORN will be out in force next winter during the census is still TBD. If they are, what is going to be the action taken to limit their damage? If that point comes around, then what would you expect to do? (BTW, that is rhetorical.)
Josh @ 17:
Why do we have to do anything now? Is there really a crisis? Or is this just some manufactured bullcrap? What is the problem? Have you not been able to see an MD lately? Just because the Liberals in Congress, The 0bamanation and his minions say there is a crisis does not mean one exists. What is it? Or is it some reason for action without substance?
luddy @ 23:
But the GoP is just another form of statist in other clothing. These guys do NOT have our best interests at heart, believe me. I think the real alternatives are still being formed and negotiated. What any real alternative to the present bunch of corrupt fools is going to be is still TBD. I hope it takes the form of something with Palin at the fore. But that is just me.
bogie @ 27:
re: Bill Murray. I think you should see “The Razor’s Edge”. He is brilliant in that one. That movie convinced me that he was a real actor. Plus I like the story anyway.
In the same vein, Steve Martin is sometimes viewed as ‘not serious’ but he tells small stories well. “Shop Girl” and “L.A. Story” showcase who and what he really is well.
I think it is time to get one of these and put on the front stoop.
Come Back With A Warrant Doormat
May be time to order a few of these, also. I have machetes ….. and other things.
V For Vendetta Mask
wretchard wrote that:
Perhaps the time of men living in Liberty is past. However, someone forgot to send me the memo. I do not plan on just capitulating and going into ‘the long night’ without a fight. I cannot lay down and quit. I think that goes for many more people than Dean knows about.
Then there is this:
H.R.45 – Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009
Let’s not let the camel get his nose under the edge of the tent on this one. Then we could not enforce the doormat nor fight off the monitors when they come knocking.
Josh@17 Indeed! HSA’s would do the trick, though there would need to be some transitional period.
Is it really likely that the people who haven’t figured out how to run Medicaid and Medicare are suddenly going to cover an extra 250 million people and make it cost less than it does today?
Yeah. Right.
robohobo@39 The Razor’s Edge! One of my all-time favs! The money line (said to the Dems at the townhalls), “You just don’t get it, do you?”
Liberals often justify nuisance laws on seatbelts and smoking by saying that those who violate the policy will use the public hospitals so, “We will all have to pay.” When I ask who invited them to they lash out and accuse me of wanting to close all the hospitals and leave the poor defenseless.
That’s the thing that has always mystified me (in a sense) about the garden grade of Leftists. Why can’t they advocate anything where people have a right to opt out of the system? If it is such a great wonderful system, but its purely voluntary and only the membership can reap the benefits, you would think that over time everyone would join it.
But the fact is that most of these schemes depend upon social parasitism, in order to do good we must punish someone and put the screws to them.
I cannot understand this. There are “collectivist” organizations that do work. In much of rural Texas electricity is provided by “Co-Ops,” non-profit organizations that often provide power at a very reasonable rate. Nobody is required to join. They have no taxing power, but they are very successful.
Why does is the mainstream left so focused on the old Soviet model? Ah well–stupid is as stupid does.
The Rasmussen Daily Presidential Tracking Poll, Instapundit follows Gallup but I believe that Rasmussen has proven more accurate over the last couple of election cycles, continues to provide comfort. Both polls are trending against Obama which is more important then any transient perturbation. My thoughts on this were laid out in more detail on the “Cloudy Crystal Ball” thread.
The next 15 months will be decisive for three (my magic number again) reasons.
1) The Census and related efforts to effect permanent change will either be rammed through or fail.
2) The mid-term elections will be determinative for both parties for the next 20 years.
3) The $3,000,000,000,000 bill will come due. Since China is in no position to swallow this we can expect a hard crash.
OK, add a fourth reason in the spirit of Monty Python’s benefits of Roman occupation.
4) The 3:00 AM phone call will happen, maybe several of them at once from Caracas, Tehran and Pyongyang.
Makes me think of a short story…”Quitters, Inc.” by Stephen King. They guarantee you’ll stop smoking…of course, it’s run by the Mob. First offense…mild (no permanent damage) electrocution of your wife…while you watch. By the third offense, they break both your kids legs. Fifth offense…well, you don’t get a chance to smoke after that.
Of course, the difference is, in the story you have to walk into the office and hire them (albeit not knowing their methods) before they decide it’s their “job” to “help” you…
I put a link to this story up back in January on the Breakfast of Champions post. It seems an appropriate read for this thread too. Lipidleggin by F. Paul Wilson.
Put
I will guarantee that if someone shows up on my front door step and tries to come in to check (fill in the blank), they will wind up with the following options…No, Hell no, and Bang. I recommend that they select the first choice.
together with
Liberals often justify nuisance laws on seatbelts and smoking by saying that those who violate the policy will use the public hospitals so, “We will all have to pay.”
and it’s easy to conclude that “community organizing” is even worse for your health than trans fats. So I say we’d better outlaw it right now before our health care system is swamped by ACORNites suffering from acute “Hell No” syndrome.
and it’s easy to conclude that “community organizing” is even worse for your health than trans fats. So I say we’d better outlaw it right now before our health care system is swamped by ACORNites suffering from acute “Hell No” syndrome.
Now that is funny. A good laugh before bedtime keeps the dreams upbeat.
There’s an interesting report by The Washington Post. It’s called, “Debate’s Path Caught Obama By Surprise”. I’d link it, but moderation would block me if I did.
The thing about that article is that the administration here is trying to express surprise and consternation at why the Left is so determined to have a “public option.” If there isn’t one, the Left is not interested in the deal. Now that the White House has floated a strategy that does not include that “public option”, it finds itself presiding over a revolt.
Key sentiment here from a White House official (unamed, of course): “It’s a mystifying thing. We’re forgetting why we are in this.”
This is unsettling. The White House is in this because extending governmental control over Americans’ health care is a priority of the Democratic left ever since the 1970′s (remember Teddy Kennedy’s campaign vs. Carter?). If there isn’t a “public option” in the health care plan then there isn’t a reason to have a health care plan at all from the Democratic party’s point of view. Obama is waffling hugely on this basic point.
Obama’s floating trial balloons to see if an incremental approach involving “competitive co-operatives”, an oxymoron if there ever was one, will float. He’s doing this because the White House sees that the big grab is cooked. Ain’t happening this year. Nightmare populist uprising they couldn’t slander away. So they’re on Plan B.
Idiotarians pandemic on the Democratic Left are ready for bear, tho. The One is in a pinch.
That’s our sorry scenario. For the LOVE OF GOD, WHY??
Our country is in the throes of an economic meltdown due a lot of factors. None of those factors include health care. Our health care system may be messed up and fraught with perils, but it is not why we are in the situation we are in economically.
This is an absurd side-show, and a very, very perilous one.
The Obama administration has really played its hand badly. So much for the “reality based community”, given cap ‘n trade and Obamacare.
This is shaping up as one of the biggest political meltdowns in US history. He’s waffling around, shooting his own troops from the back of the head, shooting at his opponents wildly.
This man does not have the skills of a statesman or of an experienced domestic deal maker.
He’s a kiss-up to foreigners and a thug on his home scene.
Disaster.
Short him.
There’s an interesting report by The Washington Post. It’s called, “Debate’s Path Caught Obama By Surprise”. I’d link it, but moderation would block me if I did.
The thing about that article is that the administration here is trying to express surprise and consternation at why the Left is so determined to have a “public option.” If there isn’t one, the Left is not interested in the deal. Now that the White House has floated a strategy that does not include that “public option”, it finds itself presiding over a revolt.
Key sentiment here from a White House official (unamed, of course): “It’s a mystifying thing. We’re forgetting why we are in this.”
This is unsettling. The White House is in this because extending governmental control over Americans’ health care is a priority of the Democratic left ever since the 1970′s (remember Teddy Kennedy’s campaign vs. Carter?). If there isn’t a “public option” in the health care plan then there isn’t a reason to have a health care plan at all from the Democratic party’s point of view. Obama is waffling hugely on this basic point.
Obama’s floating trial balloons to see if an incremental approach involving “competitive co-operatives”, an oxymoron if there ever was one, will float. He’s doing this because the White House sees that the big grab is cooked. Ain’t happening this year. Nightmare populist uprising they couldn’t slander away. So they’re on Plan B.
Idiotarians pandemic on the Democratic Left are ready for bear, tho. The One is in a pinch.
That’s our sorry scenario. For the LOVE OF GOD, WHY??
Our country is in the throes of an economic meltdown due a lot of factors. None of those factors include health care. Our health care system may be messed up and fraught with perils, but it is not why we are in the situation we are in economically.
This is an absurd side-show, and a very, very perilous one.
The Obama administration has really played its hand badly. So much for the “reality based community”, given cap ‘n trade and Obamacare.
This is shaping up as one of the biggest political meltdowns in US history. He’s waffling around, shooting his own troops from the back of the head, shooting at his opponents wildly.
This man does not have the skills of a statesman or of an experienced domestic deal maker.
He’s a kiss-up to foreigners and a thug on his home scene.
Disaster.
Short him.
Sorry, forgot to add great post! Can’t wait to see your next post!
The pdf link does not work. Can this be fixed?
I heard Mark on the radio and he was saying “…and all this cross talk about ‘death panels’– its panels themselves that are the start of the problem”.
This cannot be acceptable for many innumerable reasons, but the fundamental reason that invalidates all of the ones used to argue for national socialised health care is that it destroys doctor/patient confidentiality, i.e. privacy, the argument so preciously and selectively prized by the left when used as the ruse where the defending of [an] abortion as a “right” is concerned.
I hope the Supreme court is poised to strike this down on that fundamental basis, an authentic privacy issue, where precedent is concerned, if congress continues the way they are trying to. And if not, we’ve got the equivalent of a Dred Scott decision on our hands.
If you don’t see it, look at Roe v Wade: that “random tissue” growing inside a ladies’ tummy is “private” property”; none of our business what she does with it (“privacy”), just as in Dred Scott, when his right to be a free man was declared invalid (by S ct.) based on the fact that they ruled he was [someone's] private property. a Bad Ruling, but there you are, there were free[d] men and women for the course of our history (living in the North, of course) and Scott filed his case in Minnesota, so the court could have ruled in his favor and maybe not set the clock ticking for deadly civil war, ahhhhh don’t get me started….
democrat party really miscalculated when they punted on SCRAP and TAX, and switched to health scare/death care; the ground was much more fertile for the class warfare card/canard tactic to be played with that one (“so, you don’t want clean air? you think oil companies should be free to just …”), pitting us against each other, to obscure the real issue- shutting down small business, and sending those who can afford to elsewhere, but that campaign will probably be put off till next year, and when that happens, the same people showing up at town halls will be prepared, and ready and waiting for them. Take that usurpers.
there may well be 100 potential democrat votes against what their party is trying to do, but so far failing to do: single payer (the taxpayer paying via da gummit), the “public(?)” “option”- (no options at all).
Something has come between the big monied lobbyists and the ear of the congress persons voting habits, I guess we could euphemise it as some seismic activity, but in previous entanglements it was- Principles vs Lobbyists=Lobbyists win most every time. Many members of both parties have been corrupted by this, but it took tea parties and town halls, to focus light on what lobbying entities these members have ceded their seat to, even Ron Paul, despite what he’d have you believe.
So…here is a plan that I could support: Set up hospitals where physicians are paid a salary, where all tests are conducted at the residing hospital…where every kind of health care is available. If someone needs medical care and cannot afford to pay for it….they can have acces to this care center and take out a loan with the hospital/government to pay as they can.(very low interest, of course). Then allow tax-deductible charitable contributions to be made to help support these hospitals…or perhaps a percentage of state and local sales tax to support part of the funding for the hospital. But…people using it would have to pay…..at least nominally via low-interest loans. If they are severely destitute…the Medicaid kicks in…as it does now to pay for healthcare. Do not involve private enterprise except to the degree that they are paid providers for articles needed in said healthcare facility. I am sure that there must be a way that is so clear to allow me to keep my cherished right to say “yes” or “no” without turning this country into a socialist…and beyond that communist entity. By the way, this collective program that is being talked about is nothing more than a Trojan Horse…..a way to complete government take-over to be slightly postponed at a later date.
Gaffe Prices,
You are correct about how bad a ruling Dred Scott was. Sotomayor looks to be a hack capable of coughing up something equally bad. You are also correct that Roe v Wade has roots as solid as Birnham Wood that came to Dunsinane. There were however thousands of free blacks in the South at one time. New Orleans had an especially strong free black community. The legal fiction, using the words of the 1795 Militia Act, under which Lincoln fought the war, was that since in the Southern states “the execution of the laws of the United States was obstructed by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings or the powers vested in marshals” he could call out the State Militias.
It all comes down to some minor Government appointed health care “expert” telling you your Momma has cancer and that’s why since she is terminally ill she cannot have her broken leg fixed cause, “she’s gonna die anyway why waste money on a dead woman who has a broken leg.”
It’s like having a root canal, ya got Insurance, Ya got money to spend? Ya gets a root canal. BUT if ya got’s no insurance and no money to spend ya gets a tooth extraction instead and if ya really are poor you just buy Pain meds off the street and bear with it.
We will have folks dying here of afflictions that simple meds could cure but long lines, delays, denials of service and just plan don’t give a shat by folks who get paid whether you live, suffer, die or not.
Pretty soon, we will have a bunch of community organizers vote in a beauty panel.
If you are voted as sub-par beautiful, then….
Three issues:
1) So will “community organizations” also monitor Viagra use?
Will they be empowered to insist on a man using it as a form of exercise or ration it to limit “sexual obsessions”?
2) The argument that motorcycle helmets must be worn since riders too often scramble their brains and have to have them reinserted at government expense prevailed in California. I think this is a non-trivial argument but I understand Florida had a bit better take on the problem by requiring people holding licenses to drive motorcycles to carry medical insurance. That’s a centralist compromise.
3) There are two types of “voluntary” programs. One is “opt-out” where you’re signed up unless YOU take the action to cancel. The second is “opt-in” where YOU have to take self-initiated action to join up. The opt-out plans can be very close to mandatory with limited public knowledge of how to opt-out and difficult procedures to do so. Keep this in mind for any government program, be it medical monitoring or remote control thermostats.
Don’t look now, but the USS Sarah Palin has trained her 16″ guns on a new target: the US taxpayer subside to Brazil to drill for oil off their coast. The Palin’s fire is withering and the incoming rounds are scoring direct hit after direct hit:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=119471438434
Meanwhile, the tugboat Barack Obama is still attempting to recover from the last barrage from the Palin and is on fire and taking on water.
TCobb re: the Left’s programs never having an opt-out provision
That simple fact convinces me, in my moments of self-reflection and examination of beliefs, that it’s all about power and control for the Left. If they really wanted the better world they so long for, their methods wouldn’t involve jamming that world down other people’s throats. Helping those living under the poverty line? Well, sure, there’s food pantries and volunteer charities, but let’s implement confiscatory tax rates on the earning class, filter the money through gov’t (and ensure we also get a cut) before giving anything to the poor.
There is no choice. There is no opt-out. You’d rather contribute to the Salvation Army? You don’t want to fund ACORN? You don’t want the gov’t taking over large swaths of the economy? Too damn bad. A boot stomping on a human face.
“”"Why hasn’t anyone invoked the same argument abortion proponents espouse. My body, my right…
Same argument really. Hands off my body.”"”"”"
Brilliant Checkers! (#3). I, for one, WAS thinking that just the other day! I think the motto was “OUR BODIES, OURSELVES.”
That motto actually applies much more aptly to individuals and their health concerns than it does to women and abortion, since, in spite of their antiseptic notions about the status of a “foetus,” thye were talking about TWO individuals, whereas we have no such moral ambivalence to wrestle with.
HUMAN HUSBANDRY
I brought up this issue in a previous thread. What these provisions are doing, is reducing citizens to the status of livestock, and therefore they would be practicing the equivalent of “animal husbandry” on humans.
A clever law firm could make the point that this is a violation of the 13th Amendment of the Constitution. This could be made to resonate in African American communities in particular, since it conjures up visions of people on the auction block having their teeth looked at and being poked and prodded by potential buyers.
You can bet big money that these community health commissars will wreak havoc with that cockamamie “BMI index,” one of the stupidest one-size-fits-all bureaucratic rules-of-thumb ever devised. The same goes for that idiotic “Food Pyramid.”
Many of us who have included strength-building exercises over the years as part of our conscientious health maintenance efforts would flunk the BMI index test because of our added muscle mass. As a matter of fact, while it may be true that we have more overweight and obese people than ever, it’s also true that there are more “buff” and athletically massive individuals in proportion to the population than ever. One need only look at WWII newsreels and compare them to modern combat footage and see how much beefier many of today’s combat soldiers are compared to their grandparents. I would not be surprised if those among us who carry additional muscle mass are not lumped into the “overweight” statistics touted by alarmists.
And have you looked at actuary tables on height-to-weight ratios? They can only be achieved by going on war-zone type austerity diets, and I’m not kidding or exaggerating. Japan has a stringent requirement that all men not exceed 35 inches in waistline. I’m sure that Sumo wrestlers are exempt, but some of the bigger Japanese men — bigger as a result of the more abundant diets of modern Japan — are having a very hard time meeting the 35 inch standard as they reach late middle age.
Tarnsman/58; great, great imagery –thanks –highly amusing & uplifting!
Who are these eligible entities who will find the time to busy themselves with what you weigh, eat, do or smoke? CNS reports that they will be unspecified groups of private citizens receiving government money.
If not ACORN, then groups of our neighbors, paid to inform on our habits. Who wants to live in that kind of world? This current government is trying to turn America into a mindless anthill.
39. Robohobo:
I second your remarks about LGF. I used to be a regular there but left in disgust a couple years ago.
I know of three blogs that are largely made up of ex-LGF members. There are probably others as well. I invite you, and any other interested Belmonters, to check them out.
Grouchy Conservative Pundits (formerly Gulf Coast Pundit)
Nuke Gingrich
2.0: blogmocracy.com/ (Looks like they changed their name, too. They were “LGF 2.0″ last time I looked.)
GCP is the only one where I regularly hang out, and it’s a pretty intelligent crowd with many diverse interests. When we were setting up the new site I recommended that Belmont Club be included on our blogroll, if we ever get around to finishing the front page.
OT: Sorry Wretchard,
Don’t know how I missed it. But Robert Novak passed away yesterday. (February 26, 1931 – August 18, 2009) He’d been ill for some time and not published in several months. I didn’t always agree with his modus operandi. I did read his work and it was good.
My husband and I are college graduates, both of us with multiple degrees. I work in healthcare, my husband is a chef. We eat fresh and in season, no “boxed” foods, rare (like 1x/year) fast food. We’re overweight because we LOVE food and eat too much. But the idea that some fat, high school (?)graduate who “don’ know who d’baby daddy be” is going to lecture/monitor/control someone who PAYS for all my own food is repugnant! I work for my money and pay more than my share of taxes and I’ll be damned if someone who lives off my work will stand between me and the food I desire.
rickl @ 68:
I used to read Gulf Coast pundit….. then it sort of faded. I am not sure why. I will check out your links.
I tend to hang here and read many. Return of Scipio, Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler (be careful you do not end up a chew toy there) and a lot of the gun blogs. My “sport” is shooting as it is something I can still do. (I have issues with mobility and back pain.) Used to read Kim Du Toit and Steven Den Beste but they are both closed now. Oh, and National Review Online.
rickl:
BTW, I saw Natasha at GCP in the comments section. That shows you are in good company there.
I thought BHO was our Hip Replacement
for GWB.
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“We are God’s partners in matters of life and death” What the! Obama
1000 Rabbi Conference Call
A call with the rabbinate
From the Washington Jewish Week, and confirmed just now by Gibbs:
President Barack Obama needs some outside help pushing health care reform, and he’s turning to rabbis to get it.
In a morning conference call with about 1000 rabbis from across the nation, Obama asked for aid:
“I am going to need your help in accomplishing necessary reform,”
the President told the group, according to Rabbi Jack Moline,
who tweeted his way through the phoner.
“We are God’s partners in matters of life and death,” Obama went on to say, according to Moline’s real-time stream.
Moline’s feed is here. (He’s a Washington rabbi close to Rahm Emanuel.) It’s unclear if Obama is doing other quiet and untweeted calls to constituency groups.
ALSO: Moline tweeted that the call’s hold music was
“Deutschland Uber Alles,”
which he thought a bit of a “mistake.”
SDS, ACORN, SEIU, Chicago Socialist New Party and now the Color of Change.
Hayden, ayers, radke and others.
But Soros Open Society is now the key. Has to be dragged out into the real open.
dwall:
http://www.bing.com/search?q=petrobras+soros+ex+im+bank&form=IE8SRC&src=IE-SearchBox
We can’t drill, but we can pay Brazil to, so long as the company is Soros’ largest single stock holding.
or this one, even better.