Sealed with a kiss
The BBC reports that the suspects in the Hariri murder are off the hook as Hillary Clinton vowed never to “sell out” Lebanon in an AP article.
Four Lebanese generals held since 2005 over the killing of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri have been freed. Their release comes hours after a UN court ruled there was not enough evidence to hold them.
Supporters of the generals, mainly from the pro-Syrian Hezbollah movement, fired guns into the air and set off fireworks to celebrate the ruling. The UN court was set up to investigate the bomb attack which killed Mr Hariri and 22 others in February 2005. The decision to free the generals comes less than two months before a finely-balanced legislative election that pits the pro-Syrian bloc against their pro-Western rivals, including Mr Hariri’s own political movement now led by his son.
The AP article hints that Hezbollah may gain on the anti-Syrian coalition in the next elections. “The June 7 vote could boost the Iranian-backed Hezbollah and its allies, possibly paving the way for renewed Syrian influence over Lebanon,” as Hillary denied that the Obama policy of engagement was being conducted at Lebanon’s expense.
Clinton said she delivered a letter from Obama to Suleiman expressing strong support for a free, sovereign and independent Lebanon. She said U.S. attempts to engage Syria and Iran are not being done at the expense of that support.
“There is nothing that we would do in any way that would undermine Lebanon’s sovereignty,” Clinton said. “I want to assure any Lebanese citizen that the United States will never make any deal with Syria that sells out Lebanon and the Lebanese people. You have been through too much and it is only right that you are given a chance to make your own decisions,” Clinton said.
Including, presumably, the chance to decide to accept Hezbollah’s dominance. Hillary Clinton has recently made statements assuring Iraq it would not abandon them — as a preface to announcing they would be on their own in two years . The Secretary of State’s denials that Lebanon has been sold out, must like the Iraqi assurances, been made to reassure those who believe they are being betrayed that they have nothing to worry about. Why they might think that is obvious. And perhaps in her fine lawyerly way, Hillary may be right. After all, worry and resignation are two distinct and separate words. As time goes by the people in the region will have the opportunity to juxtapose the sordid actions of the Obama administration with their lofty assurances. My guess is that any resemblance between the two will be purely coincidental.
Having Secretary Clinton issue a guarantee that the US will not abandon Lebanon should send a chill down the spine of every living Lebanese. One can almost count on her words being the opposite of what will in fact take place. Poor Lebanon. F
If the Obama administration is dealing from the bottom of the deck then I think everyone at the table should wonder whether they’re next. Because the cards go round the table and there’s no reason any particular player should think himself privileged in a situation like that.
The Secretary of State’s denials that Lebanon has been sold out, must like the Iraqi assurances, been made to reassure those who believe they are being betrayed that they have nothing to worry about.
“Just lay back and enjoy it”. Precisely what the current administration is advising the remaining Americans who remember what was once known as free enterprise.
“….you are given a chance to make your own decisions,” Clinton said.”
All you need is a chance. Not the continuing privilege, just a single chance.
I am so sick of these people and their carefully parsed words. Say what you like about Rumsfeld and his arrogance and Bolton and his pugnacious style, you never had any doubt about what they were saying.
Any Lebanese who knows US history won’t be surprised. The Dems have a long history of abandoning allies. My last recollection of the Dems caring about allies was when FDR worked so hard to get the US into WWII so that he could help out Mother Russia.
Bill
http://willstuff.wordpress.com
Step right up! Welcome to our visionary President’s magical funhouse of mirrors where nothing is as it seems, and the trick is to finding a way out of his maze of mirrors and deceptions.
Like the master con artist he is, Obama has mastered the art of deception and deflection. One of his favorite tricks is to adopt conservative sounding themes to put a sensible defensible veneer on his hidden marxist agenda of chaos. Just focus on that rabbit people, and never you mind the rustlings behind those curtains.
The lives, institutions and businesses broken, and in ruin left strewn along the side of road as a result of his magical journey to chaos will be incalculable. Lebanon and Iraq are just some of the many sacrifices that need to be made to please our hallowed one.
I am sure that Hillary gave a similar letter to the Whitewater investors, assuring them of the quality of the investment they were making.
If somebody has your back you don’t need a letter; pity the poor Lebanese!
Any promise from this administration comes with an undisclosed, classified, expiration date. They seem to be recapitulating the worst of every Democratic President and Congress. A special “Worst of” collection.
Backing up our allies as McGovern backed up Eagleton, 1000%.
Wretch say…”As time goes by the people in the region will have the opportunity to juxtapose the sordid actions of the Obama administration with their lofty assurances…”
That “sordid” is a grabber – a sign that Wretch is reaching out to the Obama haters in the Club… but Wretch’s rhythm requires him to pull back after he’s gone a little over-the-top so his next post in the thread sounds a little less CERTAIN…Note the first word…
“If [!] the Obama administration is dealing from the bottom of the deck then I think everyone at the table should wonder whether they’re next.”
”
But there was nothing iffy about those “sordid actions” invoked above, right?
Consistency IS the hobgoblin of small minds. Stiil, if you want to be taken seriously as a writer/thinker – it probably makes sense to avoid contradiciting yourself (w/o acknowledgement/apologyk) SO quickly…
My last recollection of the Dems caring about allies was when FDR worked so hard to get the US into WWII so that he could help out Mother Russia.
I guess the rise of fascism in Germany and Japan, combined with Pearl Harbor, had nothing to do with it.
Sorry, as an historian I find silly comments like this hard to ignore.
“Stiil, if you want to be taken seriously as a writer/thinker – it probably makes sense to avoid contradiciting yourself (w/o acknowledgement/apologyk) SO quickly…”
This from experience? Do people take you seriously as a “thinker/writer”?
You’re picking pepper out of flyshit.
Policy-as-Jedi-Mind-Trick has become routine for the administration.
SamIam, I don’t think that anyone in the Administration have the slightest clue as to what foreign policy is. Obama just wants to be loved and, with his popularity no higher than W’s at this same point in his first term, he is searching for someone to love him. He trudges about the rest of the world slamming the US to hear the hollow cheers of people that hate us while most of the second teir ministerial appointments remain unfilled and our economy spins out of control. It’s not like the ship of state has no one at the helm, it is more as if there was no helm at all.
Now the Lebanese have been hung out to dry by the UN (big surprise there, eh) and they can only look to the US or France to save them from descending into civil war or puppet-state status. Hillary fails to say that we will vigorously support Lebanese Democracy, she only says that we will support Lebanese sovreignty, which means that the borders will not be allowed to change. No matter if Syrian thugs run the elections, it’s legitimate. Heck maybe they can have Carter stop by to give his blessings.
FDR and the American public never entered the war because of “the rise of fascism in Germany and Japan…”
Germany declared war on America 12-11-41. THAT is how America entered the war against Germany. Everything else is bunk. Until that minute the ENTIRE country was oriented towards clobbering Japan. The popular sentiment was:”They’ve got their war, we’ve got ours.” Until 12-11-41 Congress had only declared war on Japan….
Since you’re a historian — check it out.
FDR did work hard to get us into WWII and was wise to do so. His co-conspirators were Simpson, Marshall, Arnold, Knox, Stark, King et. al. This cabal morphed into the National Security Council. Back in 1940-45 it met every Tuesday at 8AM.
The motivation was the missive from Leo Szilard and Albert Einstein which spelled out the risk of letting Hitler get the Atomic Bomb first: “game over.”
Since Hitler refused to swallow any bait in the Atlantic and obviously we had no skin in the ground war FDR was completely frustrated. The Army and the Navy felt the same way.
Other angles were bandied about until a left-field suggestion to bait the Japanese gained traction. The theory was that with their shame-honor culture that persistent insults would get Tojo to bite.
Towards that end, FDR cut loose a farrago of gambits — most of which exceeded his authority, were unlawful if not flatly unconstitutional.
If it had not been for code book distribution stumbles the IJN would have attacked seven days earlier.
The notion that the IJN could sail RADIO SILENT all the way to Pearl Harbor is risible. Of course, this is the standard story. In fact even without code breaking Nagumo’s armada could be tracked across the Pacific by the Canadians and Americans.
The surprise (for FDR & Co) was how unprepared the Pearl Harbor defenses were. The intention was to get Japan to strike first — at which point our stout defense would prevent major damage.
The spin that Washington couldn’t get a hold of Pearl Harbor via command channels is so absurd as to be insulting. At that hour of the day phone and cable traffic into the Islands is nil. It’s a Sunday!
Anyhow, FDR succeeded beyond his dreams. The nation was howling mad: men were lining up even before Congress could hear FDR speak.
Staying out of the war would have handed the world on a platter to Hitler. Everybody with a brain saw that. Japan was a minimal threat, by comparison. She turned out to be very, very much tougher than Washington expected.
The Manhattan Project could never have been budgeted and managed in peacetime.
It is also true that FDR had a wildly pro-Soviet vice-president and permitted hundreds of Reds to infiltrate his government. Hoover pointed this out to him and was blown off by FDR: he wouldn’t hear him out.
The PR campaign launched to humanize ‘Uncle Joe’ started at the top: FDR. BTW, Stalin HATED that nick name! Hollywood cranked out a few pro-Soviet war epics and a ton of short reel stuff.
In sum TXW42… Bill McNutt isn’t too far off the mark.
If you believe a single word from a Clinton’s mouth, it is your fault, not theirs. The Clintons are really not liars, they are to far gone for that. They simply have no way to distinguish between lying and telling the truth.
My guess is that countries will quickly make accommodations with one another with little or no regard for U.S. influence, primarily because our influence is, and will continue to be under the present Administration, seen as unhelpful.
My further guess is that new and interesting alliances are in the process of developing. In the last days, we are told, strange and wonderful events will occur. The Left in this country are now fervent believers. But I wonder what the reaction will be when Israel aligns with Egypt with the proposal: We’ll take care of your Hezbollah problem if you take care of that little growing problem in Iran.
Said it before, will say it again:
Watching Dems at Foreign Policy is like watching a 3 year old with a load and cocked .357.
@Jimmy: This your first experience w/ Benj?
blert,
Gertrud Weiss-Szilard*, Leo Szilard’s wife, was on the faculty of my medical school (UCSD School of Medicine). Unfortunately, he had died five years before I matriculated. I would have loved to talk with him. He was said to be one of the brightest people of his era, although in spite of his important discoveries in physics (as you know, with Fermi, he discovered and described the nuclear chain reaction), he was relatively unknown.
Jamie Irons
*check this URL, scroll down a bit:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ddeo52
A weak America must force our dependent allies into independence: Korea, Japan, Taiwan et. al. must now get the bomb.
No one can expect Obambi and Rodham to stoutly hold the line.
It’s astonishing that a President with zero foreign policy experience picked a SOS who is a charmless female, corrupted by foreign interests, backed up/torn down by a coterie of radical Leftists.
This is then topped off by casting off our partners in trade and policy so as to supplicate the despotic guild. (Their motto: Do no good.)
We’re trading away an imperfect peace for a perfect hell.
BTW, Obambi really cut loose trashing the Pakistani Government. The jihadis must have that clip circulating on the web by now.
Just who is controlling the ISI-Shadow Army? China? KGB? The Putin-Mafia?
Henninger has it right: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124105013014171063.html
Problem is, I’m not sure even Obama knows what he’s really thinking.
And even assuming he does and can clearly express it, I rather doubt doing so would be helpful.
Obambi is more along the lines of Asimov’s MULE.
Read the Foundation Trilogy. Though a work of fiction it’s amazingly on target with regard to Obambi and the whole mule phenomenon.
11 – Just noticing Jimmy – but as for your “picking pepper out of flyshit” – can’t touch that!! Thanks for the phrase…
Ah no, the Sed of State has said,
The word sellout’s verboten
So please don’t fret your pretty head
As soon you will be votin’
For Hezbullah who will of course
Be kind and gentle rulers
We know you’ll love the new strong horse
Except for your pre-schoolers
Who will not be allowed in class
If they’re of the wrong gender
Nor will your Christians find the glass
Half full but they must render
Obeisance to that Allah guy
Whose mercy has no ending
But in the meantime please don’t try
The rules of mercy bending
We are behind you all the way
We’re here for you forever
In passing I just want to say
That we will leave you never
Of course we know we’re pulling out
But that is not to worry
What’s that you say? What’s that you shout?
Then go and what’s your hurry?
It is easy to mock the administration as being inept.
Look at the ideas of the people running things. They are doing what they believe is right both foreign and domestic.
Obama and his people hate both the idea of American Exceptionalism (Obama said America was just another country when in Europe) and also the very IDEA of the Pax American and US defense umbrella.
So he and his coalition of SWPL Yuppies and women are dismantling it. Thinking that there will be no consequences and it’s a net gain, after all the military is where most of the power that is NOT SWPL Yuppies and Women resides. So any dismantling of US military power is a good thing for them, in a middle of a recession over 95K jobs destroyed by cancelling the F-22 while spending trillions for stuff like Green Bike Paths that are never built.
What the consequence will be is easy: nukes for everyone. Israel now knows it is alone, and it’s only response is to be a far bigger nuclear power than any regional or possibly strategic competitor, and be willing to strike without warning using nukes on a nuclear enemy. He who nukes first survives. Israel now knows that if she wants to live, and her people to live, she must KILL the Iranian people. It’s that simple. Otherwise the Iranians will simply nuke up and hit them back. Therefore they must effectively kill the Iranian people to survive themselves.
For Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, etc. it is different. They must have enough Nukes to destroy Moscow, St. Petersburg, and have them survivable in the event of a Russian attack, either conventional or nuclear or both. Since Moscow does not aim to kill them merely conquer them their choices are a bit easier. There’s probably low risk for these nations going nuclear immediately, but it will prompt everyone else on the Continent to realize the US will not defend them and nuke up in response.
This also is going to make various North African nations nuke up, as the floodgates turn loose and losing by not having nukes (other nations can dominate yours with impunity) becomes the game.
Now you have Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, and others close to rich, undefended, and weakly populated Southern Europe: Greece, Italy, the Balkans, Spain, and France. Whoever nukes first, lacking any credible or realistic conventional militaries, can conquer the rich but weak neighbors and solve population pressures, or avoid being conquered respectively.
Removal of the US defense Umbrella will simply accelerate war and conquest all over the Globe, and lead to a series of nukings by desperate, risk-taking nations and leaders.
Whiskey:
I’m begging ya… What does SWPL stand for ? Please let us know or stop using it!
Thank you.
Google is your friend…
Stuff White People Like…
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/
It’s a blog that attracts the Obambist clan.
You should read the threads to get at what Whiskey is tormented by.
noprisoners
I think it stands for sleeping while perpendicular lesbians.
Sisters Wanting Priapic Lovers
Jamie Irons
Simpleton Wishful Puerile Leftards…
OT but did anyone notice that we’ve discovered too much natural gas? Like a hundred years supply out of a fresh gas super giant in Louisiana?
Dang that Peak Oil theory constantly needs extension.
All Detroit has to do is convert to dual use gasoline/nat-gas.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123552499920765485.html?mod=wsjcrmain
Blert:
Thanks.
Now that I have visited the site, I think that I need to dig my eyes out with a spork.
Actually, I read almost every thread and have wondered for weeks what SWPL meant. Thanks for the assist.
@Whiskey: I’ve noticed an interesting phenomenon amongst the local contingent of SWPL’s. Seems like the ones from traditional red states, like Oklahoma, North Carolina, etc are especially shrill about their Pee-Cee-ness. Almost like they’re doing penance for being born in the “wrong” part of the country. Some of these red state transplants have been pretty friendly, but I’ve yet to meet one I could bear to discuss political issues with. Based on Benj’s stupidity I’d say there’s a pretty good chance he’s from the South if he’s white. If he’s black then he’s just your typical Negro supremacist hatemonger who could hail from anywhere…
blert:
Actually Google is NOT my friend. Nearly 100% of their political donations go to Democrat and extreme left wing causes. I use “Goodsearch.com” which also contributes a dime to the charity of your choice for each search.
Blert, it makes no difference if we have a ten thousand year supply of natural gas, or coal, or oil or oil shale in North America, the luddites will oppose any carbon use.
blert,
Yes, I did notice that article yesterday evening (I read the entire journal every day).
The maps of natural gas distribution were interesting to me. The area of northeastern Ohio in which I grew up (Chagrin Falls) has one of these natural-gas-containing shale formations. I recall as a kid playing in the creek behind our house, and fishing the Chagrin River itself, both of which ran over a very attractive, easily friable dark gray shale.
Jamie Irons
Blert/Jamie, the work that the US independent oil and gas producers have done over the past few years is nothing short of remarkable to me. They took a natural resource that most of the Major Oils had given up on, and created a wonderful resource for the US. Their improved technology has driven the cost of this gas way down, such that we have cheaper natural gas than europe or asia.
These are the significant areas of our economy where free markets actually work very well, yet no one on the Left will recognize it as they are all so focused on uneconomic alternatives like Wind and Solar. This could not have happened without energy prices rising like they did over the past few years. As much as I would love to see Wind, etc… become viable alternatives, we can’t have an economy where we are pushing energy alternatives that are 3-10X the cost of a fuel like natural gas. We now need to start converting autos to this fuel so we can push back on OPEC and Russian oil.
Of course, keep in mind, Lebanon was set up during French decolonization as the Christian country, and Syria as the Muslim one. (The details of its decolonization are complicated, b/c of WWII, but Lebanon already had a special status within the French “Syrian” colony dating well before WWII.) Now, “you-know-who” is trying to take it over (not in a unified way–Hariri was against Syria/Hezbollah, of course).
Of course, a lot of Christians have left–most of the Lebanese you will meet in the US are Christians. (Not so true in Australia, Wretchard?)
“Too much” democracy can be dangerous–one man, one vote, one time!
Benj,
You must be assuming that there will be a near 1:1 relationship between “sordid actions” and “lofty assurances,” because if you think otherwise, then that would actually be taken as a compliment.
So apparently you realize at some level, although you are clearly not willing to admit it in public yet, that this administration is not living up to campaign promises, and not especially interesting in looking out for the interests of allies and/or democracies/hoped for democracies.
“There is nothing that we would do in any way that would undermine Lebanon’s sovereignty,” Clinton said. Does not include stuff we would not do but should?
“I want to assure any Lebanese citizen that the United States will never make any deal with Syria that sells out Lebanon and the Lebanese people. Under this administration no deal will be made with anyone. No past support will remain pledged no resolve will at all be displayed.
You have been through too much and it is only right that you are given a chance to make your own decisions,” Clinton said. We are tired of doing the right thing because it means other people won’t like us. Just give up now, and save us the bother of leaving you to twist in the wind.
Benj, depends on the game. If all the players know the dealer is cheating, the best some can hope for is to recoup a little or maybe claim some others losses while another player gets a truly raw deal. Of course as long as they continue playing their is always the chance they become the mark.
Of course I think Wretchard’s take is wrong in that Obama is the real mark, preening and pompous green wet shades of innocence being built up for the grand fall. The rest of the table is merely taking what they can while they can without alerting the mark to the ego fed feeding frenzy. Of course for this scam to work, the mark needs to be dishonest, willing and be gullible. I believe enough shades of all three are present for a successful sting.
Blinded by their own arrogance.
I wish it were something I could enjoy.
RaviT @ 38:
Of course, keep in mind, Lebanon was set up during French decolonization as the Christian country, and Syria as the Muslim one.
You are referring to the three autonomous areas, plus the separation of the Alawis on the coast and the Druze in the south? Yeah, Seems like Biden didn’t have an original thought after all. Even in that plan he offered for Iraq.
(The details of its decolonization are complicated, b/c of WWII, but Lebanon already had a special status within the French “Syrian” colony dating well before WWII.) And continued after the french with Abdel Gammel Nasser’s United Arab Republic, of which Syria was a part until the Baath Party and all parties were dissolved. I don’t know, with even the Pales involved along with other Syrians if you can seriously blame Damascus or the situ in Lebanon on the French.
Now, “you-know-who” is trying to take it over (not in a unified way–Hariri was against Syria/Hezbollah, of course).
That would be Ayatollah Khameini.
Of course, a lot of Christians have left–most of the Lebanese you will meet in the US are Christians. (Not so true in Australia, Wretchard?)
Of course the Christian Community in Lebanon were on whose side yesterday, are sided with who today, and who knows tomorrow?
“Too much” democracy can be dangerous–one man, one vote, one time!
Especially if the dead men on one side can count their votes as canceling out three votes of the now dead on the other side. In a shrinking Cabinet of the nearly dead. But hey Syria would know nothing about that hey?
I am disgusted by Madam Secretaries two faced summitry.
I’ve got a bit of emotional involvement here since I can put faces to the names. That makes it personal, though of course, that hardly changes anything. This isn’t a Muslim-Christian question; there are Muslims and Christians in the anti-Syrian/Hezbollah coalition. It’s totalitarian versus somewhat democratic divide. Even when I was there I got the sense, and you can go back and read my posts on the subject after I got back from Lebanon, that something nasty was in the works from the Obama administration. But they were only suspicions. Now, they are far more suspicions. In my mind they are almost a certainty.
There was a lot of optimism then that the “international community” would provide some deterrence against Syria by indicting senior members of the Assad’s circle, though they had lost hope in the prosecution of Assad himself. It looks like they’re not even going to get that. Now the signal is being sent the other way and you can bet it’s being read loud and clear. Hezbollah already has the guns. Now it looks like they have the green light.
‘We won’t abandon you …’ Why didn’t she have the common decency to stick the knife in without topping the whole pile of excrement with that rhetorical dollop of whipped spin? Maybe it was habit.
James Baker/GBI first sold out Lebanon to Syria as the price of Desert Storm. There was a springtime of hope. And now this. Lebanon’s been a football all these years. How foolish to think it would ever become anything but that. Actually “sordid” isn’t the best word to describe betrayal: the better words are cheap, two-faced and disgusting. Those who support the One should ask themselves: what makes them think that when the time comes, they won’t be thrown under the bus? It’s better to take your chances with people who you can trust. When this crew are right behind you, that’s the moment of maximum danger.
Sh*t Wholesalers Priced Low
The One isn’t necessarily the one to betray anything. More false saviors have been mild precursors to The Next One, setting up systems that ensure evermore authoritarian asses appear down the road.
wretchard, if i may ask, are you really surprised? Clinton state dept, these are the oil-for-food people –amongst sooo much else. What was Genovese Nancy doing in Damascus, five minutes after the 2006 election?
Wretch invokes the O Admin’s “sordid actions” in Leb with certainty. Then he gets a little iffy… And now…he gets his emotion on again – “cheap two-faced, disgusting” – but when it comes to facts…
“I got the sense, and you can go back and read my posts on the subject after I got back from Lebanon, that something nasty was in the works from the Obama administration.[Course Wretch didn't have to go to Leb to expect "something nasty in the works from the O Admin" - that's his a priori assumption on any O-related matter!] But they were only suspicions. Now, they are far more suspicions.[Uhuh.] In my mind [You said a mouthful brother!] they are almost[!] a certainty.” [Now there's a phrase that inspires confidence!]
Wicked good stuff, Benj. Just think what you could do with the truth on your side!
Yeah. Negro Jeebus has been conniving with enemy states since before he became president. His political advisors openly talk about military action against Israel, but our resident useful idiot gallery whines on about Wretchard’s “paranoia”. I admire the hard-core Alinsky types for their honesty and (occasional) bravery – unlike lefty backstabbers who insist they only have the best of intentions w/respect to the Jews. Uh-huh.
Wretchard:
“If the Obama administration is dealing from the bottom of the deck then I think everyone at the table should wonder whether they’re next. Because the cards go round the table and there’s no reason any particular player should think himself privileged in a situation like that.”
Very nicely put. I, for one, don’t wonder who is next: we all are. And indeed, none of us is privileged in the current situation.
But it’s particularly poignant that S/S Clinton — she of Whitewater, billing records and FBi files fame — can think the Lebanese believe for a minute she is telling the truth. Isn’t this what the Greeks meant by hubris? F
Sick and tired of watching various Arab countries alternating between calling America the “Great Satan” and screeching “death to America” and begging / pleading / extorting American taxpayers’ money to support their various filthy regimes.
I really have no problem with pulling out of Iraq, out of Egypt, out of Lebanon, and certainly out of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, and letting them muddle through and figure it out on their own.
As if.
And, always with the proviso that if our oil supply is interrupted, we *will* come back with the Marines to take over and turn it back on.
Benj,
It always irritates me when someone quotes Emerson out of context. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
Look at Benj. He’s exhibit A of “Stuff White People Like” which is basically the Seinfeld episode that never ends.
And just like Jerry’s family was mostly well adjusted older folks, the SWPL are eternal adolescents who put status over hard choices.
Clinton/Obama selling out Lebanon will have hard consequences. No one will trust America and now Israel has to decide to kill Iran’s people, most of them, or meekly accept their fate. There’s probably enough non Yuppie SWPL left to make that a call to kill rather than be killed.
Since the wages of SWPL is not sin, but death. A lot of it. Bad people won’t go away just because you pretend they’re just a fabulously colorful character on Seinfeld.
Socialist-Worker-Party-Liberals?
Please ban trolls posthaste. The slightest patience allows them to thrive in this kind of forum.
geoffb/53
Not much to do with real work.
I thunk it must be “Wanker”, not “Worker”.
This reminds me of a scene in Lion in Winter:
“You’re good. You’re first class, Jeff. You’d sell John out to me, or me to John. Or…you can tell me, have you found some way of selling everyone to everybody?”
“Not yet, Mummy, but I’m working on it.”
Seems our State Department is busy trying to figure out how to sell out everyone to everybody as well. Heaven help us.
You think maybe all this time they haven’t been saying “fair” but “fare”?
Semiotics or coincidence file; the press conference took 13 questions again. At least four of them have taken 13 questions. Dunno about the others. just noticing funny things, don’t throw a butterfly net over me. yet.
If he be sending ‘master of time’ messages to folks prone to heebee jeebies, he be succeeding !
To what extent is passive-aggressive behavior especially common among the SWPL brigades? I would like to see a psychologist’s assessment of Benj’s style of argumentation.
Well, at least Jim Baker got something in return. I think the current administrations regards selling out US interests and allies as paying “reparations” for all those wrongs the US has committed. I think Syria responds by sponsoring terror attacks in Iraq — as is their right, of course. I’m being snide with the last bit (the rest is mere sarcasm). By the way, is by the way BTW?
FDR and the American public never entered the war because of “the rise of fascism in Germany and Japan…”
Nor did I say that. It was a response to some pretty bizarre conspiracy-mongering on the part of, well, the both of you, now.
Germany declared war on America 12-11-41.
Funny how that happened, against the advice of most of Hitler’s military advisors.
THAT is how America entered the war against Germany. Everything else is bunk. Until that minute the ENTIRE country was oriented towards clobbering Japan.
After December 7, maybe.
The popular sentiment was:”They’ve got their war, we’ve got ours.” Until 12-11-41 Congress had only declared war on Japan….
Try talking to anybody who lived then…German and Japan were allies. We would end up fighting both and everybody knew it.
Since you’re a historian — check it out.
I have.
FDR did work hard to get us into WWII and was wise to do so. His co-conspirators were Simpson, Marshall, Arnold, Knox, Stark, King et. al. This cabal morphed into the National Security Council. Back in 1940-45 it met every Tuesday at 8AM.
FDR simply recognized reality at a time (ironically) when most of the public and both political parties did not.
The motivation was the missive from Leo Szilard and Albert Einstein which spelled out the risk of letting Hitler get the Atomic Bomb first: “game over.”
Since Hitler refused to swallow any bait in the Atlantic and obviously we had no skin in the ground war FDR was completely frustrated. The Army and the Navy felt the same way.
Yet Hitler did on December 11
Other angles were bandied about until a left-field suggestion to bait the Japanese gained traction. The theory was that with their shame-honor culture that persistent insults would get Tojo to bite.
Yes. We provoked Japan into war. That’s really nuts. Read the primary source material. We underestimated them to be sure, but it seems once the conspiracy bug gets ahold of you everything looks sneaky.
Towards that end, FDR cut loose a farrago of gambits — most of which exceeded his authority, were unlawful if not flatly unconstitutional.
Um. Ok.
If it had not been for code book distribution stumbles the IJN would have attacked seven days earlier.
Have you even read Gordon Prange or Rebecca Wohlstetter?
The notion that the IJN could sail RADIO SILENT all the way to Pearl Harbor is risible.
Not only is it true, it’s been proven pretty well (see above sources). Risible in what sense? It screws up Stinnett-like conspiracy nonsense?
Of course, this is the standard story. In fact even without code breaking Nagumo’s armada could be tracked across the Pacific by the Canadians and Americans.
With what, exactly?
The surprise (for FDR & Co) was how unprepared the Pearl Harbor defenses were. The intention was to get Japan to strike first — at which point our stout defense would prevent major damage.
You’d have to be pretty dense to think that Japan wasn’t going to strike (they had worked up two major strategic plans, out of Army and Navy departments). The Phillipines was seen (with some justification) as the most likely point of attack.
The spin that Washington couldn’t get a hold of Pearl Harbor via command channels is so absurd as to be insulting. At that hour of the day phone and cable traffic into the Islands is nil. It’s a Sunday!
Again, read the sources. It was 1941, not 1991. Lack of preparedness can lead to some pretty bad stuff happening. Just look at 9/11–or was that a CONSPIRACY too?
Anyhow, FDR succeeded beyond his dreams. The nation was howling mad: men were lining up even before Congress could hear FDR speak.
That fiendishly clever Dr. Evil like man.
Staying out of the war would have handed the world on a platter to Hitler. Everybody with a brain saw that. Japan was a minimal threat, by comparison. She turned out to be very, very much tougher than Washington expected.
Again, if you bother to read the sources, “everybody” didn’t see Hitler and Japan as a threat. In fact, the Republicans fought it tooth and nail (ironically) and the public was as ill-informed as many are today, apparently.
The Manhattan Project could never have been budgeted and managed in peacetime.
Why would it have been?
It is also true that FDR had a wildly pro-Soviet vice-president and permitted hundreds of Reds to infiltrate his government. Hoover pointed this out to him and was blown off by FDR: he wouldn’t hear him out.
FDR was not smart about Stalin–the extent to which he facilitated communist infiltration starts getting into General Jack D. Ripper territory. And Hoover? What an amazing Counter-Intel genius he turned out to be. Not.
The PR campaign launched to humanize ‘Uncle Joe’ started at the top: FDR. BTW, Stalin HATED that nick name! Hollywood cranked out a few pro-Soviet war epics and a ton of short reel stuff.
We humanized a lot of creepy people during WW2–the Soviet Union was an ally. Hollywood’s pro-soviet nonsense was war-effort propaganda. I won’t argue that there was a lot of pig-ignorance about the USSR–the NYT certainly did damage in the 30s (w/o help from FDR).
In sum TXW42… Bill McNutt isn’t too far off the mark.
In sum…yes he is. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I think there is plenty of reason for American allies to be concerned about betrayal from the Obama administration. One sad aspect of American history is that betrayal has been all too common. This wouldn’t be the first time that those who have believed American promises would be left in a lurch.
It is easy to lament broken promises long after the damage has been done. It is more difficult to keep the government’s promises, especially when it is politically unpopular to be honorable. For future generations, the question comes whether American promises should have the next Inauguration Day as their expiration date.
I am frankly skeptical of the Obama administration’s propensity to be honorable, given its origins in the cesspools of Chicago politics. The essential question of the Obama presidency is whether it will repeat the betrayals of Andrew Jackson. This is an open question. It would be easy for an Obama presidency to act dishonorably; one sad aspect of American politics is how betrayal can often be politically popular. Yet, while the Obama administration has a moral obligation to stay true to American promises, it is the responsibility of those who worked so hard to put Barack Obama into the presidency to push him to act responsibly. I have grave doubts about whether this will happen, though.
Tarsman,
2 points for the Lion In Winter reference.
Time to invent a verb, the Lebanese are being “Kurded.” The world is full of worthy communities that have been dealt with shabbily. The wonder to me is that when the most undeserving Palestinians start whining why don’t vast masses spontaneously start throwing trash at them?
Seven years ago I said that we should go through Damascus on the way to Baghdad.
Bush had a policy that pundits and journalists called “The Bush Doctrine.” The policy privileged defense and support of democracy-enhancing initiatives. Now “Bush Doctrine” has about as much appeal, in public discourse, as “Final Solution.”
But what, one might ask, is “the Obama doctrine”? To un-do Bush? Maybe something like what Wrichard describes?
As always, Tony Badran at Across the Bay has great commentary and links about Lebanon and Syria.
Can US support of Syrian interests result in US influence over Syria that contributes to peace with Israel?. A fantasy, say Badran:
“Recenly Assad clarified exactly what he meant by ‘peace with Israel, and it bore no resemblance to the rosy scenarios painted by the ‘peace processors.’ In fact, the president raised serious questions about the value of any such deal altogether.
“In a recent interview with the Emirati newspaper Al-Khaleej, Assad made a remarkable – and indeed unprecedented – comment about what his concept of ‘peace’ with Israel was. ‘A peace agreement,’ he said, ‘Is a piece of paper you sign. This does not mean trade and normal relations, or borders, or otherwise.’
“The long-held view among people dealing with the negotiating track between Syria and Israel is that a peace deal will lead to a normalization of relations between the two countries. That was the purported basis of their talks during the 1990s. In recent years, another element was added to the argument, namely that a peace deal would distance Syria from Iran and allied militant groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas, so that Damascus might even put pressure on Hamas itself to accept peace talks with Israel. This ambitious theory was dubbed “strategic reorientation”, and it has become the basis for conceptualizing engagement of Syria today.
“However, the implications of Assad’s statement to Al-Khaleej should lead to a reassessment of the Syrian-Israeli track. Assad has now articulated what he had strongly implied for years.”
“The Secretary of State’s denials that Lebanon has been sold out, must like the Iraqi assurances, been made to reassure those who believe they are being betrayed that they have nothing to worry about.”
“Just lay back and enjoy it”.
Precisely what the current administration is advising the remaining Americans who remember what was once known as free enterprise.
—
#3. Insufficiently Sensitive:
Imagine you are floating near the ceiling, looking down, observing yourself as an actor in the scene.
…a Rape Victim’s Survival Mechanism.
Might work.
—
Alexis,
You just enabled me realize how good old All-American
“ the cesspools of Chicago politics”
seem to be in comparison to BHO’s origins!
Meanwhile, back in the Good OLD USA:
Fujiyama Mama, Teenage Head, and “Geronimo Rock “n” Roll”
…The Stomp’s long lineup also included the 80-year-old Alabama bluesman and harmonica player Jerry McCain; Lady Bo, who played guitar in Bo Diddley’s band when he made his hits in the late 1950s; Wanda Jackson, a rockabilly singer who had Elvis Presley as a mentor; the gospel-charged soul singers Otis Clay and Howard Tate; the organ-driven garage psychedelia of ? and the Mysterians; the swamp-pop drummer and singer Warren Storm; and the rambunctious rockabilly singer and guitarist Ray Sharpe.
Lazy Lester, the harmonica-playing Louisiana bluesman who released “Pondarosa Stomp” as the B-side of a 1966 Excello Records single, was also on hand, with Presley’s longtime guitarist James Burton and the organist Stanley Dural, a k a Buckwheat Zydeco, among his backup musicians.
Who knew Buckwheat Zydeco was aka Stanley Dural?
From an Iranian TV interview with President Bashar al-Assad where among other item his Excellency said that “apart from these negotiations (Turkey led Israeli-Syrian preliminary talks about the Golan), there has always been attempts for years to distance Syria from Iran and the resistance. There will be no such thing. Israel knows well where Syria does go and how it does that. We’re not a country that builds temporary relations. We’re a country that have principles and interests. Our relations with Iran has been growing and consolidating day after day.”
This is the stuff James Baker back channeled in 1989 for the Gulf War, made possible because elder Assad sided with Iran against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq during their war. A Faustian bargain was cut amongst the folks who murdered Nasser and the folks who murdered 200 US Marines and the folks who held our Embassy hostage. A series of altercations made possible by a certain former Governor of GA.
A bargain made by Baker to push back against Iraq, despite a history of aggression against The US and US interests. The thinking was that Syria, once a vassal state of the Soviets, has used Iran to take up the slack of money and arms and trade, directing Hezbollah and pushing back against both French designed Lebanon and Israel. How does Syria afford Hezbollah? How does Syria afford North Korean atomic reactors or Russian Tanks or missile technology without any semblance of an economy? They don’t. Syria does not in fact exist without trade through Lebanon. Syria should by rights be begging to join Jordan and Egypt and embrace the rights of Israel to exist. That is the only way to bring peace to the Middle-East. Syria has been gaming the system for decades, feeding bad and good intel to us when it suits them and always of course Iran.
With the wedge that we have now in Iraq, there is not a reason in the world why Syria cannot be made to earn its desires for Lebanon by severing its ties with Iran, including the renunciation of Hezbollah, or suffer dire consequence. Instead we take the Baker approach and real world view of punishing ourselves and rewarding our enemies.
The only change here is the current Administration isn’t making a pretense of friendship with Israel.
What puzzles me is, how did it come to be that Lebanon relies on America to mediate its disputes with its next door neighbors?
It used to be a republic like Lebanon would wheel and deal and fight to preserve its autonomy and preserve its citizens’ interests. But now, trapped in a manufactured civil war with extra-national Islamist terrorists, somehow it is America’s job to “broker” a deal.
Consider the recorded cascade of events:
1. First, Iranian/Syrian proxies disrupt Lebanon’s civil society with terror and assassination.
2. Second, the now-internal insurgency sparks a military invasion by one of Lebanon’s neighbors.
3. Third, in reaction to the neighbor’s defensive response, the “international community” rationalizes a role for itself as conflict resolution facilitators.
4. Fourth, Lebanon becomes a ward of the UN and the United States’ state department, Hillary gets arrogated to the role of Lebanon’s mediator (in essence conducting L’s foreign policy for it) and the result is, just like any coddled child who can’t cut his own meat, its autonomy is seriously compromised.
5. Enter Syria.
BTW: no bounded country is immune from this series of forced concessions and their eventual, aggregate caustic effects on classic nation-state autonomy. At the end of the day, the transnational movement and militant Islam enlarge their joint holdings.
Could it be, that’s what “terrorism” is all about these days? The combined, shared goals, tactics and talking points of the global Left and her adjunct “Islamic Terrorists” suggest an answer.
I have no idea whether they were or were not guilty or indeed whether there was or was not sufficient evidence to prosecute. owever I do know that either wway a trial would not have been seriously afected by the evidence. In Yugoslavia we have seen Serbs cinvisted despite the person alleged to have ben murdered coming into court to testify for the defence; Milosevic poisoned in solitary confinement when after 4 1/2 years of “trial” no evidence had been produced; Nasir Oric the perpetrator of the only undisputed massacre at Srebrenica not being tried for it & given a slap on the wrist for lesser atrocities; & the NATO leaders, who legally are certainly guilty of an illegal war not even questioned by the “court” they pay. Also we saw the frame for the Pan-Am bombings shifted from Syria to Libya not because Syria hadn’t actually done it but because they subsequently joined us in Gulf War 1.
If the Obama administration is dealing from the bottom of the deck then I think everyone at the table should wonder whether they’re next. Because the cards go round the table and there’s no reason any particular player should think himself privileged in a situation like that.
…
Actually “sordid” isn’t the best word to describe betrayal: the better words are cheap, two-faced and disgusting.
It would be easy for Obama’s supporters to denounce or dismiss those who are critical of the Obama administration’s foreign policy. Yet, it is up to the Obama administration to prove its critics wrong. Although Obama’s foreign policy has had a rocky start, there is still time to change course. The question is whether this administration will actually do so.
It would be easy for Obama’s supporters to denounce any and all criticisms of their beloved superhero; it would be more difficult for Obama’s supporters to push him to prove his critics wrong. Will Richard Fernandez’s criticisms of the Obama presidency be vindicated? Time will tell.
That is bad, I ran out of editing time and did not save this link to the interview.
http://www.syria.org.cn/en/assad_ir_tv.html
What does that say about my grammar?
Anywho,
Who is surprised that the UN and the rest of the modern world _sh’ant_ figure out who murdered Hariri _and_ the Lebanese who wanted a country free of Syria and the Hez? WHO is surprised in this world of wimps, lie mongers and the worship of the mixed cup. Mixing truth with half-truth, love with tyranny, caring with leaving anyone who fights for right, out in the cold.
Who amoung us, cannot clearly see that mankind is falling into severe times. Orwellian times, when those who remember what is right, are made criminals.
Hey Hez,
You and your funding nations are repugnant to every good thing ever done on our earth!
Some related quotes, for those who can recognize complex patterns:
“Being ignorant and free can never be.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they
are free.”
— Geothe
“Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.”
— Benjamin Franklin
“It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.”
— Voltaire (1694-1778)
“Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win
without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure
and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to
fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of
survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when
there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as
slaves.”
— Winston Churchill
Wow Tigerhawk gets tough today…
Sleeping With Popular Liars
Spending What Papa Lent
Slouches With Purposeless Lives
Sanitary Washouts Picking Lint
Speculative Whiners Promoting Larceny
Smart Wimps Picking Lackeys
Selective Women Placating Libidos
Shaggers With Perverse Lifestyles
Snakes Who Promise Liberation
Stalinist Whores Protecting Loafers
Sleek Wiggly Prancing Lugworms
Slanderous Worthless Preening Lickspittles
Strangely Warm Phantom Limbs
Stupid Wonky Peace Lovers
Stiletto Wielding Prattling Lowlifes
— —
L3
I just wonder if they’ll let us keep our internet cafe going when we’re taken to the detention camps.
Thank you Joe Buzz for the link to Tigerhawk. The comments there are noticeably harder line than here. Belmont Club has always helped me make sense of events because the people who comment are not your standard Troll-type. Instead with a few exceptions they tend to lay out their arguments without tossing down a pile of insults to anyone who might disagree.
Sure wish I could parse Marie Claude’s english, or read French & German so I could eavesdrop on her conversations with Habu and others.
64 LOTM: I would have said ‘Polanded’, but that’s me…
tom
Mr. Linbeck the third,
fun, especially once I figured out what you were up to.
Maybe you should take it a step further, and make SWLP haiku.
72. veracious:
Undergirded and Motivated by a Love of Tyranny:
The desire to dictate to others what they will say and do oozes from their every pore, plan, and deceptive cover story.
When no plan is at hand, call a play fake – gravely stutter and stammer for time, while saying “a, aah, a,” as though in the thrall of deep and serious thought.
when i got to Sleek Wiggly Prancing Lugworms i wet my pants
The Moist Look has become de rigueur.
Only now did I visualize A Sealing by the Sec of State:
Must have been your imagery.
– Under My Bus –
A Debate Rekindled
A new book says that F.D.R. wanted to resettle millions of Jews in Latin America.
bifocals, doug –that’s the ‘Maoist Look’.
re tangent off FDR & da Jooos, didja know that the father of Progressivism, Woodrow Wilson, segregated the US Military? With a stroke of the pen, he undid our long-since integrated military, where it stayed until Truman undid it.
Amazing.
…and now liberals/leftists have done the same thing in Colleges, entertainment, Congress, a multitude of venues.
Many, no doubt, would find it hard to believe Jews, Italians, Irish, and etc went to dances in New York in the 50′s featuring Black Bands and audiences…
oh, it’s very clear in small southern towns –the races were working toward something real, when LBJ swept in and got everybody pissed off.
Scythianeedle
I’ll make it simpler for you
a subject, a verb, a complement
though I appreciate that you used the term “conversations” for my “rantings”