Many experts agree. That what happened on the Maersk Alabama should never happen again.
CHICAGO — Maritime experts reacting on Thursday to the stirring tale of 20 unarmed U.S. crew members wresting back control of their hijacked freighter from armed pirates off Somalia agreed on one thing: they were lucky. Some were critical, saying the crew may have disregarded standard procedure and taken a dangerous risk in fighting their attackers. …
According to a set of best practices for ships off Somalia as laid out by 11 international agencies including the International Maritime Bureau issued in February, when attacked by pirates a vessel should speed up, take evasive action and even turn fire hoses on their attackers. But once boarded, crews should “offer no resistance; this could lead to unnecessary violence and harm to crew.” …
AdvertisementJohn Wick, managing director of corporate risk management firm International Security Solutions Ltd, said the crew was very lucky. “It’s all very gung ho and it’s like watching a good movie,” he said. “But what the crew did was potentially very dangerous and could have gone very wrong.” … Wick said in general Somali pirates have treated captives well and a system is in place for ransoming captured crews.
“My advice is to run like hell,” Wick said. “If you’re taken, let the system kick in and take care of you.”
Although there was widespread public rejoicing at the successful mission, some experts sent up a collective groan of dismay. The Telegraph reports that “The dramatic rescue of an American cargo ship captain kidnapped by Somali pirates may have put the lives of hundreds of other hostages in danger and raised the stakes for future hijacks, experts have warned.” Like a bully who finds himself unable to vent his rage on anyone except by kicking the neighborhood stray dog, the pirates may be tempted to take things out on more vulnerable prey than US flagged ships, which have the USN to call upon. Some have even accused the US of precipitating “guerilla warfare” on the high seas.
“This has now changed everything, what we are now dealing with is maritime guerilla warfare,” maritime security expert Nick Davis told Sky News Online. “Your average Caucasian white guy does not want to be operating in the Indian Ocean – because his card is now marked. “I would not want to be on an American-flagged ship in the Indian Ocean at the moment, that’s for sure.”
He believes the vowed revenge attacks could also put European crew at risk.
If only the US had gone meekly along and coughed up, then all would be well. But not everyone agrees with that assessment. Fred C. Iklé, a distinguished scholar at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, writing in the Washington Post believes that the “experts” themselves are the problem.
Start by blaming the timorous lawyers who advise the governments attempting to cope with the pirates such as those who had been engaged in a standoff with U.S. hostage negotiators in recent days. These lawyers misinterpret the Law of the Sea Treaty and the Geneva Conventions and fail to apply the powerful international laws that exist against piracy. The right of self-defense — a principle of international law — justifies killing pirates as they try to board a ship.
Nonetheless, entire crews are unarmed on the ships that sail through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. Shipowners pretend that they cannot trust their crews with weapons, but the facts don’t add up. For one thing, in the United States most adults except felons are allowed to have guns, and the laws of many other nations also permit such ownership. Even if owners don’t want everyone aboard their ships to be carrying weapons, don’t they trust the senior members of their crews? Why couldn’t they at least arm the captain and place two experienced and reliable police officers on board? …
Furthermore, the U.N. Security Council should prohibit all ransom payments. If the crew of an attacked ship were held hostage, the Security Council could authorize a military blockade of Somalia until the hostages were released.
Cowardice will not defeat terrorism, nor will it stop the Somali pirates. If anything, continuing to meet the pirates’ demands only acts as an incentive for more piracy.
My guess is that despite the recent upbeat mood, following on the rescue of Captain Phillips by the Navy SEALs, that a policy of nonresistance will be hard to overturn. In the coming months, some merchant crew may try to imitate the actions of the Maersk Alabama and suffer terribly at the hands of pirates who may be determined to inflict an object lesson on the shipowners. With their humiliation at the hands of the USN, the pirates have temporarily lost their most powerful weapon: terror. They will be eager to regain it.
This is the arguement for self defense and the right to be armed in the US and the European idea that people are to be unarmed and defenceless.
Americans have a different attitude and are willing to defend themselves, in fact they demand it.
Europeans think we are crazy.
However 38 states have CCW laws and Americans choose to be armed. WE do not want to be victims of the bad guys chancy mercy. So from mow on American merchant ships and crews should be armed since we have been told that future pirates will take vengence, The ports can adjust their rules to accomodate armed freighters with arms lockers sealed at customs.
American sailing yachts usually have at least one arm on board and that is accepted most places. Anericans know they are a target and should defend themselves accordingly.
The shippers will have to changed the procedures to accomodate arme crews.
Pirates should beware that American flagged vessels are armed and will fight.
It seems to me that a .50 machine gun and some night optics are about all you need to keep pirates away. It seems to me that you could engage and disable a fishing boat at half a mile, and smaller boats would be blown apart.
If you really wanted to, you could add a 3in (76mm) deck gun the way Armed Guard crews protected merchant ships during WW2. The Armed Guard crews were Royal Navy, usually reservists. Perhaps we should start putting Navy or Marine detachments on American ships traveling through the area. They don’t to be SEALs, just armed men with some training.
Add in some shotguns or assault rifles and you’re pretty much invulnerable as long as you stay alert. Most ships have enough men to defend themselves even without adding military personnel.
My guess, and it’s only a guess, is that the fear of liability prevents the arming of merchant ships. That can be incurred in several ways. One is where a jumpy merchant crew opens fire on an innocent small boat, or what is later alleged to be an innocent small boat, for which they may be sued. Alternatively, one of the crew may be hurt in repelling boarders and he may later allege that whatever he may have contractually agreed to, he is entitled to more damages.
If your crew is largely Bangladeshi, Filipino, or such, then it is probably cheaper to let them be kidnapped and ransom them. If any should die in captivity, a few tens of thousands of dollars are typically enough to buy the silence of their destitute families. Human rights lawyers are expensive to pay off. Filipino widows are comparatively cheaper to mollify.
One way to mitigate the first problem is to create an armed cadre of merchant seamen, who can be properly trained and embarked on the ships along threatened routes; they can shift licensed M2s or 25 mm deck mounted guns from vessel to vessel. The deck mountings can be standardized and ships along the route can be required to have them. As to liability, that’s where Fred Ikle’s suggestion that the UN forbid the payment of ransom may be a good way to go. This would put a crimp in the liability argument of the human rights people because if resistance is mandated by the UN, then that’s the final word in their world. Things don’t have to make sense to the politically correct ambulance chasers, but the right bit of paper can make all the difference.
WE do not want to be victims of the bad guys chancy mercy.
WE understand that fatted bureaucrats will leave us to the predations of animals and thieves.
The poison in this joyous outcome is that certain people will now expect it – indeed prefer it over prevention.
They will falsely believe the government can always fix a crisis using superhero mercenaries who neatly place bullets right where we want, when we want. It’s taboo to speak of the debacled missions that prove otherwise, unless you are on a blue ribbon panel investigating why some soldiers in the field didn’t perform as demanded of them.
Those same heroes are scorned without “their service”. It’s lucky the navy is there to validate their performance, or they would be viewed as paranoid vigilantes for believing in guns.
I have a friend who is a USAF Reserve officer and an airline pilot. He says that they received repeated lectures about how to deal with a hijacking: Give the hijackers what they want. Do not fight them.
Some of the pilots responded that there was no ‘effing way they were going to cooperate with the hijackers. They wanted guns.
The FBI told them that if there was a hijacking and they did not do as they were told that the authorities would hunt THE AIRLINE PILOTS down and put THEM in jail.
9/11/01 was a conspiracy alright. A conspiracy of wimps, dunces, and bureaucrats.
And they are still at it.
The policy of offering no resistance may make sense for most ships and crews, but I think American crews choose the less dangerous path when they resist. As captives they might well be sold to Al Qaeda with the horrible future that would hold. Better to take one’s chances fighting AK-47s with ice picks.
In the thread a John Wick, managing director of corporate risk management firm International Security Solutions Ltd was quoted as saying, ““But what the crew did was potentially very dangerous and could have gone very wrong.” and My advice is to run like hell,” Wick said. “If you’re taken, let the system kick in and take care of you.”
This is akin to walking inot a barber shop and asking the owner if you need a haircut.
Or better, seeing your house has caught fire call 911 and then go sit in your easy chair. I think he said run like hell and let the system kick in. You’re on a ship, run where?
The guy is loco. He simply wants the business. He’s a buzz kill when it comes to personal initiative, something they use to teach in the armed forces prior to allowing the CINC to make all the calls from 12.000 miles away, which in war is a bunch of SH*T..the CINC was placed at the head of the military not to make calls at the sqaud level but at the strategic level.
The insurance liability angle is a lawyers hoax. “Mrs Abuyess, was you husband one of the pirates that boarded and took hostage 300 passengers, raping daily a different woman and killing sixteen men? “Yes he was, he was trying to put food on the table for our family” ….. “see your Honor this man was killed because he was trying to feed his family” Yeah that works.
The crews of these ships can’t be left without the ability to repell boarders. This isn’t a hard call. Any country not allowing a ship to enter port once the port authority security has made sure the weapons are gathered and locked up in a secure area on the ship simply won’t get the cargo and be subject to a nuclear strike, no wait I used that one too much already…a , uh. napalm attack on their soccer stadium sans citizens.
They’ll just have to re-sod the bloody field.
Anyway, kill all the pirates from now on so we don’t have to watch obama and holder turn piracy into some semi honorable thing by affording them rights they neither are owed nor deserve.
It is a persons moral duty to protect their life. Period.
RWE #6
“The FBI told them that if there was a hijacking and they did not do as they were told that the authorities would hunt THE AIRLINE PILOTS down and put THEM in jail”
Therein is a perfect example , a perfect example of why Jefferson called for a revolution from time to time. He knew governments would come to absurd notions and begin gather powers they are prohibited from having.
The above FBI threat is way, way outside their ability to abrogate the Constitution which was eastablished to allow us in part to pursue happiness. Nothing in my life has made me more personally fulfilled that to kill my enemy, and I have done so on several continents. A hijacked pilot has the same right. Once the terrorists know the sheep can be so easily sheared they will do so time and again. Additionally the terrorist don’t care about their own lives and might just kill you out of malice. The FBI are simply badge heavy apparatchiki.
“These lawyers misinterpret the Law of the Sea Treaty and the Geneva Conventions and fail to apply the powerful international laws that exist against piracy.”
Why just stick lawyers. SCOTUS Kennedy choose to ignore the very words of the Geneva Convention on dealing with illegal combatants, those who refuse to comply with the protocols of the Convention, and extend the protections of the Convention to them. The center of gravity is not the pirates and their bases in the region, the center of gravity of the problem is our new ruling class of lawyers and judges who operate above both the people and reality, be they in Washington or some International Court. Any fundamental difference in institutional culture between today’s legal establishment and that of the Medieval church when it comes to their view on who should put order to the world outside the walls of their respective temples?
All merchant crew members should be trained with weapons – ARs, 12 ga shotguns with 00 buckshot and .45 autos – disperse said weapons in key positions in arms lockers with key personnel having keys to said lockers. This should be SOP and those on watch when in pirate waters should be carrying a weapon at all times.
There was a great piece on the NPR show “Marketplace” a few months ago where they actually interviewed a Somali pirate. He was just one guy (so it’s anecdotal), but it gave a lot of insight.
The guy claimed he got into it to provide for his family, but now he’s not saving any money/sending any back because he and his buddies blow most of their winnings as a celebration when they are successful.
Again, just one foot soldier-level pirate’s take on everything, but very interesting. It’s probably still available as an mp3 on their site.
Meanwhile Strategy Page describes one more way pirates may respond to this more aggressive stance by their would-be victins:
Some of the pirates would probably resort to taking some women and children with them. Using human shields is an old custom, and usually works against Westerners. More pirate attacks will be thwarted with [a more aggressive defensive] approach, but the attacks will continue, and NATO will be painted as murderous bullies in the media.
For the pirates, taking civilians with them on their missions would have the added benefit of confusing the targeted crews as to their intentions, for critical seconds before the attack.
Saduccees and Pharisees = Lawyers
To Bainbridge and embarked SEALS BZ.
Add a verse to the Marines Hymn, right after “…shores of Tripoli”
I have yet to see the problem that couldn’t be greatly ameliorated by shooting all of the lawyers.
“Europeans think we are crazy.”
A Brit paper isn’t Europe
While I do believe that merchant vessels should have an arms locker with shotguns and handguns it is also true that we can expect the pirates to respond by carrying RPGs that could cause real damage if they are repelled. US merchants are trained to use water hoses on boarders and outrunning the small craft is usually a successful tactic. Eventually we will have to carry the fight to the enemy. That means stating clearly that Somali civilians do not have a right to engage in traditional pursuits such as fishing if their doing so provides cover for pirates attacking our traditional right to engage in commerce on the high seas. We need to shut down the Somali coast and begin bombarding the ports ubtil the threat of piracy ends. The Littoral Combat Ship was designed for just this mission so the Navy can not be accused of having ignored the threat.
The LCS, separate post to avoid moderation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littoral_Combat_Ship
an arms locker holding enough small arms in each work area should do the trick. mounts for just an M-60 MG would help.
arm the engineering spaces and the bridge.
“Europeans think we are crazy.”
Well EuroTrash is just like an impotent old man. Still able to think about things but TOTALLY unable to do anything about it.
I’m having trouble here. If a group of men are climbing aboard your ship uninvited brandishing weapons, aren’t you then completely justified in repelling them with deadly force?
Where is the confusion as to their intentions?
hey
i had the pleasure of being on a saudi air base during a scramble of jets towards the gulf shores. in those days the Vinnell Corp. would have u.s. pilots fly with saudi’s. when the jets returned claiming they turned back a bunch of bandits the planes taxied to the fasr enf of the field. the Vinnell guys got out of their planes and saidis jumped in.. planes then taxied back to the flight line just in time for ”v” signs and press shots.
was waiting for bambi to send out a diversity ”seal” team, ex crack head chicano seal, soul bro who has recently been tested HIV positive, gay seal and his marine life partner. transsexual now navy corp man ready to do duty near the shower room.
i’m sure he tried but seals can get a wee bit sticky with stuff like that.
i’m not well these days and i know the Barry administration is wearing me down. it was like nthe lsat scenes of the movie ”HEAT”. i was routing for De Niro to whack Pachino. During the Somali thing i actually wanted Barry to fall on his face…come what may.
this is sick…i will seek help…maybe.
Hell, even those PC Star Trek ships carry Phasers. LOL
O/T permission requested.
Homeland Security on guard for ‘right-wing extremists’
Returning U.S. military veterans singled out as particular threats
WASHINGTON – A newly unclassified Department of Homeland Security report warns against the possibility of violence by unnamed “right-wing extremists” concerned about illegal immigration, increasing federal power, restrictions on firearms, abortion and the loss of U.S. sovereignty and singles out returning war veterans as particular threats.
Since when has being a citizen concern with totally legitimate concerns for this country a cause for a report of this type. By their definition we’re in trouble..Molon labe.
I encourage you to read the article for it is but the first step in a more repressive government.
http://tinyurl.com/cuul35
So far, good comments all…
This incident is the tipping point in the current ‘pirate’ dynamic; over the year+ we’ve been exposed to news stories concerning the pirates. Fair, even ‘generous’ treatment of their captives, the ‘positive’ nature of the ransom cash on the local economy, and the poor benighted state of the region [and the reflexive bleating of 'they have feed their families somehow'...]. Following the ‘Conventional Wisdom’, of course you surrender nicely: it’s just a few weeks/months benign captivity, then the poor impoverished locals get their ‘ransom’ [or transfer payment of wealth from the rich nations/corporations to the 'deserving poor'...sounds familiar, doesn't it?].
If the pirates engage in ruthlessness to reassert their ‘street cred’ they’ll be throwing the above narrative out the window. I submit that the CW ‘narrative’ was the convenient excuse to DO NOTHING concrete about the issue.
No disrespect ANY of the armed forces, from any nation, but cruising a hand-full of warships around a region VITAL to global commerce was achieving NOTHING. It looked great, but that was about it.
The solution? Historically, every major [maritime] nation has ‘been there, done that’. Unfortunately, ALL the established anti-piracy models are very ‘un-PC’ and run contrary to the dreams of the ‘international rule of law’ gang. Doing the ‘right thing’ will be VERY un-tasty for the Leftists currently running the show in DC and Brussels [every dollar/euro spent smacking down soggy bandits can't go to programs intended to buy off the mobs or 'saving the planet'...]. For the current ‘powers that be’, the bottle of proven medicine before them is sour beyond description.
As odd as it sounds, the ‘pirates’ maybe doing everybody a big favor. ‘Put up or shut time’ is lurking around the next bend…and for current power players, all the wrong people are watching…closely.
“My advice is to run like hell,” Wick said. “If you’re taken, let the system kick in and take care of you.”
The problem is that 9/11 and even the Virginia Tech massacre showed that the system can’t take care of you, especially when the attacker behaves in a way the system considers unthinkable.
At Home: When seconds count, trained qualified certified professional help is only minutes away.
At Sea: When seconds count, trained qualified certified professional help is only hours away.
#20 it appears that some eurotrashes upset you because they are not so impotent that you would want them to be LMAO
As commenters here and elsewhere have noted, on 9/11/01 the “standard model” for airline hijackings – don’t put up a fight and wait for others to negotiate your safety – failed miserably and only too late was discarded on Flight 93, whose heroes learned via cell phone that no such negotiations were in the offing for them. And while some recent hijackings of big, slow-moving merchant vessels and the attendant kidnappings are a different kettle of fish, they are very similar in that they rely on the “compassion” of armed folks of various persuasions (folks in it for money, jihad, etc.) in regards to those unarmed ones in their custody. Not a good thing, relying on the mercy of the guys pointing guns at you, even if they have been relatively “benign” up to this point.
25 CPT Charles says it well: Unfortunately, ALL the established anti-piracy models are very ‘un-PC’ and run contrary to the dreams of the ‘international rule of law’ gang.
Hmm, what sayeth the Declaration of Independence?
That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
That should go in spades for the ‘international rule of law’ model. On this morning after, the news is full of tortured pleadings that when a rape of freedom of the seas is occurring, that the civilized victim-to-be should just lay back and enjoy it. The ‘international rule of law’ model is flat wrong, and it’s time to abolish it, or change it radically enough that it will be 200 more years before the exquisite concern of fonctionnaires for armed rabble at the expense of civilization resumes any significance.
“If you’re taken, let the system kick in and take care of you.”
I’d suggest the efficacy of that advice depends entirely upon which “system” you trust to “take care of you.”
I’d trust the Navy and SEALs, for good and entirely obvious reasons. But I suspect Wick is only interested in selling us snake oil and a due bill of goods.
I do a good deal of hiking in Montana. All of it in Griz country.
The granola eaters recommendations are to stand still and back away. If the Griz charges they say it’s probably a bluff charge.
Well I use to carry a .44 magnum until I was told by a guide that the newer .45ACP 13 round auto’s are better. So now I carry one of my .45′s and several clips.
Point is I’m not just gonna lay down and let the Griz munch on a thigh or buttock while ripping my face off. I’ll be unloading that .45 as fast as I can pull the trigger.
This advice of waiting for someone to come to your aid is baloney.
More in regards to relying on the mercy of the bad guys.
Wonder where all the hand-wringers are to complain about how our robust, retaliatory (disproportionate?) response to the pirates would create more pirates — the 10,000 bin Laden’s argument.
Maybe it’s the change or administrations or I haven’t seen it yet.
My crystal ball shows yet more business looming for Blackwater, Triple Canopy, Executive Outcomes, Global Risk Mgmt or whoever.
At what point did the bulk of the legal community here in the United States lose its moorings to natural law, natural rights, and way it is all fleshed out in our founding documents? One of the core tenets of natural law thinking is the right to life and property and that one has a right to defend those with even deadly means if necessary.
The prism of today’s legal viewpoints on these and other matters gives one a glimpse into a very strange world.
I’m not a lawyer, therefore the history of this process and development is not easily available to me. I would like to know when the break with natural law thinking occurred and why it happened. I would like to know what the arguments were.
The difference could not be more dramatic. Ordinary folks like me see the piracy threat in terms of the just exercise of our natural rights to defend ourselves and our property. So, for us it’s a no-brainer to find whatever method and means that would work best to fend off and annihilate the pirates. The posts above mine touch on some means by which this would be achieved.
But the world of the lawyers is utterly alien to how we see the problem and its solutions. To us, it’s weird. The legal profession crossed a threshold a long time ago and we may have missed it. They became un-moored to natural law thinking by means of some argument(s). How did this happen?
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom,” said Pitt the Younger. “It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
I say we shoot/hang/blowup/sink them. That goes for any non-state bad actors encountered in the field. They are opportunistic vermin what need to be eliminated.
I haven’t seen anything about these ‘pirates’ that could not be solved with a Ma-Duece or two.
According to Strategy Page, “British 19th century colonial administrators learned that the best to deal with Somali outlaws was to “shoot on sight, shoot first, shoot to kill, keep shooting.”" Maybe we should be brushing up on history.
Apart from any of the arguments already stated, how did we manage to lose from the get-go the right to bargain for Phillips’ life with the most obvious chip of all, the Maersk Alabama’s cargo? It was food aid for Somalia — and within what seemed like minutes of the Alabama’s being delayed in the Gulf the Somalis were whingeing and wailing that they NEEEEEEDED it, GET IT TO PORT, GEEZE, PEOPLE WERE STARVING!!! I would have told the Somali government that we wanted Phillips back instantly, intact, and it was up to them to figure out how to get him back from their nest of horribles, but until they did the Alabama was going nowhere and they could count on nothing more from us EVER. Might have put a little spring into those tribal elder negotiations. It seems reasonably simple; not quite “Perdicaris alive or the Raisuli dead”, but the best available under the circumstances. Why would we have tamely folded up and just sent the Alabama off to Mombasa without a second thought?
It seems worth mentioning that any risk management system worth its salt involves at least some measure of forethought and anticipatory action. Where desirable and/or necessary it may even incorporate a measure of pre-emption. I wonder if that radical notion of defense has even occurred to Mr. Wick.
Wretchard #3- the airlines of the US and I think the West in general (except for Israel) had what was called the “common strategy”- cooperate with the hijackers and wait for help. It was indeed motivated by liability concerns.
RWE #6 Anodyne #29- It was my impression the common strategy was officially dead, what with armed pilots and all, but maybe the rule has only been changed to resist if they try to take over the controls in flight. (I have not worked in airline operations since before 9/11.)If that’s the case it makes it real easy for hijackers, just stay away from the cockpit and you can do a hijacking just like in the old days.
The pirating of a US merchant ship, carrying humanitarian supplies for East Africa, the response of the crew, and the rescue by the US Navy are all historic turnpoints. The old debate about whether wisdom is with the exercise of military deterrence as opposed to non-resistance was awakened one more time.
Talking about history, how about looking back at the barbary wars of the early 19th century, when our 3rd president, William Jefferson decided that wisdom was with military response? By coincidence the commander of the expeditionary force, which later became known as the US Marines, was William Bainbridge, who had earned his stripes during the revolution, and after whom the U.S.S. Bainbridge was named, precisely the Navy ship instrumental in yesterday’s rescue!
If you study the history of the barbary wars, the heroic conclusion of which prevented the piracy of US ships for almost 200 years, you may be amused by the poetic justice of a successful rebuff of the pirates taking place on a Christian holiday.
It is great to resume the debate on how to respond to pirates. If this is not worth debating, what is?
Long live the citizen’s conversation, by whatever means available!
“The dramatic rescue of an American cargo ship captain kidnapped by Somali pirates may have put the lives of hundreds of other hostages in danger and raised the stakes for future hijacks, experts have warned.”
The “vowed revenge attacks” now being reported should hearten the experts who warned us against angering the pirates. But let us here note who it is vowing to raise the stakes.
They picked this fight and are now vowing to escalate the conflict. I won’t repeat the mistake our previous President made in saying, “Bring it on!” but I will say without apology that whatever these Somali pirates and their assorted enablers bring upon themselves will be entirely just desserts and well deserved.
At what point did the bulk of the legal community here in the United States lose its moorings to natural law, natural rights, and way it is all fleshed out in our founding documents?
Pretty early, probably. It’s just that the rest of us didn’t take them seriously until recently. With apologies to Glenn Reynolds and any decent lawyers present, I do think there is something fundamentally corrupting about the profession. All of us like to – at least on occasion – indulge in judging other people’s actions ex post facto. Lawyers expect their judgment to be enforced by the rest of society, and further expect absolute immunity for any mistakes they themselves make. Authority without accountability. No wonder so many lawyers propose utterly insane solutions. Bureaucrats (and really lawyers are just a subcategory of bureaucrat) like the FBI folks above operate in the same environment.
The insurance liability angle is a lawyers hoax.
Yes, but the cost of defending the company against the lawsuit is sadly not a hoax. And as Wretchard hints, after the pirate ship is repelled, perhaps with a few deaths among the pirates, the International Lawyers will no doubt claim it was not a pirate ship at all and the bloodthirsty crew, supported by their greedy corporate overlords, must be held liable for killing these poor tribesmen (e.g. see LotM’s comment a few threads back about the traditional Mycenaean greeting for a ship full of armed men). Since waiting until the pirates are unmistakably boarding the target ship is a little late to start firing, pirates and their International Enablers will always be able to use this dodge. And it’s clear from the response to this incident that there are many of those Enablers who are far more worried about their own authority than about the safety of a crew or the commerce of the ship.
In the coming months, some merchant crew may try to imitate the actions of the Maersk Alabama and suffer terribly at the hands of pirates who may be determined to inflict an object lesson on the shipowners
This is why it’s so important that a duly constituted navy carry the fight to the pirates. Although I agree that merchant ships should be armed and should be encouraged to defend themselves, at some point the pirates will mount a determined assault and take along enough firepower to overcome a typical armed merchant. It’s like any land-based criminal gang – individual citizens can defend themselves against the occasional freelance thief, but a large well-armed gang of thieves requires a coordinated response. And this gang of thieves crosses international borders in their operations, so any private enterprise runs huge risks engaging them.
Is it possible that we’ve finally found the best use for a millimeter-wave directed energy weapon, aka the Area Denial System? It has a pretty decent reach, and nobody in that beam is physically harmed, but they VERY MUCH want to be somewhere else when it’s turned on them.
when our 3rd president, William Jefferson
30 lashes, matey!
AAARHH
The solution is economics…
Infest the sea with enough Q-Ships so that dying becomes no way to make a living.
Going ashore to mix it up with pirates and civilians is a total loser. I don’t see H ever going there.
Not only Q-Ships: use UAV’s. I especially recommend using blimp UAVs.
Of course a fishing quarantine zone should be announced off the shore of Somalia. All and any fishing craft will be subject to attack at any time. This is required so as to stop the pirates from operating Q-Ships themselves. (Trawler as mother-ship.)
Some Predator strikes against pirate sand buggies also has merit.
Attrit, attrit, attrit.
“after the pirate ship is repelled, perhaps with a few deaths among the pirates, the International Lawyers will no doubt claim it was not a pirate ship at all and the bloodthirsty crew, supported by their greedy corporate overlords, must be held liable for killing these poor tribesmen”
…which is an excellent argument for a “take no prisoners/leave no wreckage” policy.
#41: The pre-9/11 official approach to hijacking that I described in #6 is dead. I have no idea what replaced it, officially, other than that SOME airline pilots are armed and SOME airliners have sky marshals on them and the Air Force has fighters cocked and ready to intercept hijacked airliners. Maybe the idea is to not state an officially approved approach so to keep the terrorists guessing. Or maybe they just don’t know what the official approach is – and maybe that is good because, as Habu says, it would in time become so hidebound and bureaucratic as to be less than worthless anyway.
However, I do note that the Obama Admin recently said it was rethinking allowing pilots to carry guns. Whaddya expect from a bunch of lawyers….
But official approach written down or not, the UNOFFICIAL approach is that every damn airplane is a Flight 93. If the “system” fails we may be cooked but we won’t be mutton.
Habu: #32: I have thought for a while that the best way to deal with bears is, if you have time, chuck an M-80 firecracker under the beast’s nose. He is likely to find the noise more unpleasant than any handgun. If that does not work, then go for the gun. I would not feel comfortable shooting a bear with anything less than my .303 Enfield, and it is a lot to lug around. By the way, if you ever go hiking in the mountains in Santa Barbara County, take a handgun, and it ain’t for the bears, comprende gringo?
Clioman #45: My thoughts exactly. In fact, turn it up. Bar Be Queing some pirates at distance sounds like the best option. But have some guns, anyway. I do recall hearing that a cruise ship used a sound weapon to drive off pirates.
Years ago, the police routinely advised women to shut up and acquiesce in a rape situation. Their thinking was at that point that if a woman fought back, she’d just piss the rapist off and it’d be even worse.
Nowadays that advice has been thoroughly repudiated and women are advised to scream, yell, kick and cause as big a ruckus as possible. Holler “FIRE!” if all else fails, and she doesn’t happen to have either a gun or karate training.
Pissing off the rapist seems to have gone by the board, and no one is too concerned with his little feelings getting hurted any more.
I’ll bet the Yurpizoids who are paying ransom to the Somali pirates are also still advising their females who are being raped by Muslim immigrants to be quiet and compliant and not to piss them off.
32. Habu:
I do a good deal of hiking in Montana. All of it in Griz country. … The granola eaters recommendations are to stand still and back away. If the Griz charges they say it’s probably a bluff charge. … Well I used to carry a .44 magnum until I was told by a guide that the newer .45ACP 13 round auto’s are better. So now I carry one of my .45’s and several clips.
Good for you, although I’m a bit undecided about the .45ACP vs the .44Mag, unless they’re convinced the increased volume of fire is worth the somewhat lessened stopping power and penetration of the .44Mag
Some of those granola eaters have also recommended that hikers wear bracelets and necklaces with tinkling bells to warn the naturally shy bears of your approach so they can avoid you, since it’s probably the sudden, unexpected confrontations with hikers which frightens and provokes the bears into attacking.
My theory, however, is that when the griz hears those bells it simply tells them that lunch or dinner has arrived… /g
We had a similar situation in the US nuclear power industry a few years ago. Not exactly pirates but extortionists.
Anyone working at a nuclear power plant could file a complaint as a “whistleblower.” The costs to the plant owners and risks of a delay in issuing a license were enormous, whether or not the complaint had validity. Owners took to “settling” the issue for cash to the whistleblower and his legal team.
Of course, whistleblowing became a wide-spread industry.
The solution I proposed for our industry lobbying group as a response from my utility company was to ban payments to whistleblowers as private settlements on complaints before the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. Remove the incentive and the activity will decrease. Legitimate issues would be sorted through by bureaucrats.
Likewise, “the system” continues to reward pirates who hold hostages and ships. It just makes the problem worst by continuing the economic incentives.
As to adding weapons to merchant ships, I understand that the biggest cost would be the labor to maintain vigilance against the small boats. Labor costs are a big part of shipping costs and adding three or four crewmen as lookouts would be resisted by the owners.
42. Professor Guvinoff
By coincidence the commander of the expeditionary force, which later became known as the US Marines, was William Bainbridge
Professor, I’m afraid you’re handing out some bad skinny on the Marines etc.
First the United States Marine Corps preceeded by more than 25 years the Barbary Pirates encounter. The Corps was founded November 10, 1775 at Tun Tavern in Philadelphia. Here is a bit more to digest.
War with Tripoli or Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
President: Thomas Jefferson
Commandant of the USMC:
Lt. Col. Franklin Wharton 1804-1818
Manning of the USMC: 26 officers, 453 enlisted
USMC Causalities: Dead-4, Wounded-10
Weapons Used:
.69 Cal. Flintlock Musket
At this point in American history, the Barbary states, Algiers, Morocco, Tripoli, and Tunis were exacting tribute, (bribes) from American merchant class ships sailing into the Mediterranean Sea.
The Barbary ports were heavily fortified with numerous corsairs manning well armed, swift ships. By 1785, American ships were being captured regularly and their crews enslaved. America was paying the Pasha of Tripoli $100,000 to ensure the safety and unimpeded passage of her ships.
In June of 1801 the Pasha declared war on the U.S. An early American expedition succeeded in landing a combined force of Marines and sailors which burned several Tripolian ships. In Oct. of 1803, The U.S. frigate Philadelphia, while on a punitive raid was captured after running aground with 43 Marines and the crew taken. (Later, this ship was destroyed in the harbor during a daring raid by U.S. Marines.)
Approx. 400 Marines (4/5ths of the Corps) was embarked upon Naval ships to eliminate Barbary threat to American shipping. Marine Operations aboard naval ships continued through 1804.
A plan was submitted by William Eaton, (to replace the belligerent Pasha Yusuf Karamanti with his brother Hamet,) and was approved by President Jefferson. Eaton sailed for Alexandria aboard USS Argus, which had a detachment of Marines commanded by Lt. Presly Neville O’Bannon.
On 29 Nov. O’Bannon, a Sergeant, and 6 Marines landed with Eaton and by March 8, set out with Hamet, and 500 men, some Greek mercenaries paid for with American gold: along with 107 camels overland through the desert to capture Tripoli and install Hamet as the new ruler.
After a march plagued by mutinies (which the Marines repeatedly suppressed,) and, with the additions of native tribesmen the army of now nearly 1200 set out for Derna. Supported by U.S. ships which proceeded to bombard the city Eaton, O’Bannon the Marines and other troops attacked the city of Derna. By 3:30 the American flag was raised over the captured citadel.
Campaigns and dates:
Enterprise vs Tripolian Tripoli Aug. 1, 1801
Raid on Tripoli May 20, 1803
Capture of Philadelphia by Tripolians Oct. 31, 1803
Constitution, Siren, Argus, Scourge, Vixen, Nautilus, & Enterprisevs Tripolitian vessels Aug. 3, 1804
Capture of Tripolian fortress at Derne-Triploi Apr. 25-27, 1805
Significant Events:
This was the first time the Stars and Stripes flew in victory over captured territory in the Eastern Hemisphere.
Legend states that Hamet, as a measure of gratitude, presented O’Bannon with a saber 32 1/2 inches long with a distinctive, jeweled “Mameluke” hilt. This style of hilt has remained to this day the pattern of the Marine Officer’s saber.
It was during this campaign that part of the first verse of the future Marine’s Hymn was written : “…to the shores of Tripoli…”
42. Professor Guvinoff
Your history is way way off. The Marine Corps was founded 25 years before the Barbary Pirates were engaged Bainbridge was no where to be found. Try this;
War with Tripoli or Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
President: Thomas Jefferson
Commandant of the USMC:
Lt. Col. Franklin Wharton 1804-1818
Manning of the USMC: 26 officers, 453 enlisted
USMC Causalities: Dead-4, Wounded-10
Weapons Used:
.69 Cal. Flintlock Musket
At this point in American history, the Barbary states, Algiers, Morocco, Tripoli, and Tunis were exacting tribute, (bribes) from American merchant class ships sailing into the Mediterranean Sea.
The Barbary ports were heavily fortified with numerous corsairs manning well armed, swift ships. By 1785, American ships were being captured regularly and their crews enslaved. America was paying the Pasha of Tripoli $100,000 to ensure the safety and unimpeded passage of her ships.
In June of 1801 the Pasha declared war on the U.S. An early American expedition succeeded in landing a combined force of Marines and sailors which burned several Tripolian ships. In Oct. of 1803, The U.S. frigate Philadelphia, while on a punitive raid was captured after running aground with 43 Marines and the crew taken. (Later, this ship was destroyed in the harbor during a daring raid by U.S. Marines.)
Approx. 400 Marines (4/5ths of the Corps) was embarked upon Naval ships to eliminate Barbary threat to American shipping. Marine Operations aboard naval ships continued through 1804.
A plan was submitted by William Eaton, (to replace the belligerent Pasha Yusuf Karamanti with his brother Hamet,) and was approved by President Jefferson. Eaton sailed for Alexandria aboard USS Argus, which had a detachment of Marines commanded by Lt. Presly Neville O’Bannon.
On 29 Nov. O’Bannon, a Sergeant, and 6 Marines landed with Eaton and by March 8, set out with Hamet, and 500 men, some Greek mercenaries paid for with American gold: along with 107 camels overland through the desert to capture Tripoli and install Hamet as the new ruler.
After a march plagued by mutinies (which the Marines repeatedly suppressed,) and, with the additions of native tribesmen the army of now nearly 1200 set out for Derna. Supported by U.S. ships which proceeded to bombard the city Eaton, O’Bannon the Marines and other troops attacked the city of Derna. By 3:30 the American flag was raised over the captured citadel.
Campaigns and dates:
Enterprise vs Tripolian Tripoli Aug. 1, 1801
Raid on Tripoli May 20, 1803
Capture of Philadelphia by Tripolians Oct. 31, 1803
Constitution, Siren, Argus, Scourge, Vixen, Nautilus, & Enterprisevs Tripolitian vessels Aug. 3, 1804
Capture of Tripolian fortress at Derne-Triploi Apr. 25-27, 1805
Significant Events:
This was the first time the Stars and Stripes flew in victory over captured territory in the Eastern Hemisphere.
Legend states that Hamet, as a measure of gratitude, presented O’Bannon with a saber 32 1/2 inches long with a distinctive, jeweled “Mameluke” hilt. This style of hilt has remained to this day the pattern of the Marine Officer’s saber.
It was during this campaign that part of the first verse of the future Marine’s Hymn was written : “…to the shores of Tripoli…”
test
#42 Try this. Your history is grossly in error.
War with Tripoli or Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
President: Thomas Jefferson
Commandant of the USMC:
Lt. Col. Franklin Wharton 1804-1818
Manning of the USMC: 26 officers, 453 enlisted
USMC Causalities: Dead-4, Wounded-10
Weapons Used:
.69 Cal. Flintlock Musket
At this point in American history, the Barbary states, Algiers, Morocco, Tripoli, and Tunis were exacting tribute, (bribes) from American merchant class ships sailing into the Mediterranean Sea.
The Barbary ports were heavily fortified with numerous corsairs manning well armed, swift ships. By 1785, American ships were being captured regularly and their crews enslaved. America was paying the Pasha of Tripoli $100,000 to ensure the safety and unimpeded passage of her ships.
In June of 1801 the Pasha declared war on the U.S. An early American expedition succeeded in landing a combined force of Marines and sailors which burned several Tripolian ships. In Oct. of 1803, The U.S. frigate Philadelphia, while on a punitive raid was captured after running aground with 43 Marines and the crew taken. (Later, this ship was destroyed in the harbor during a daring raid by U.S. Marines.)
Approx. 400 Marines (4/5ths of the Corps) was embarked upon Naval ships to eliminate Barbary threat to American shipping. Marine Operations aboard naval ships continued through 1804.
A plan was submitted by William Eaton, (to replace the belligerent Pasha Yusuf Karamanti with his brother Hamet,) and was approved by President Jefferson. Eaton sailed for Alexandria aboard USS Argus, which had a detachment of Marines commanded by Lt. Presly Neville O’Bannon.
On 29 Nov. O’Bannon, a Sergeant, and 6 Marines landed with Eaton and by March 8, set out with Hamet, and 500 men, some Greek mercenaries paid for with American gold: along with 107 camels overland through the desert to capture Tripoli and install Hamet as the new ruler.
After a march plagued by mutinies (which the Marines repeatedly suppressed,) and, with the additions of native tribesmen the army of now nearly 1200 set out for Derna. Supported by U.S. ships which proceeded to bombard the city Eaton, O’Bannon the Marines and other troops attacked the city of Derna. By 3:30 the American flag was raised over the captured citadel.
Campaigns and dates:
Enterprise vs Tripolian Tripoli Aug. 1, 1801
Raid on Tripoli May 20, 1803
Capture of Philadelphia by Tripolians Oct. 31, 1803
Constitution, Siren, Argus, Scourge, Vixen, Nautilus, & Enterprisevs Tripolitian vessels Aug. 3, 1804
Capture of Tripolian fortress at Derne-Triploi Apr. 25-27, 1805
Significant Events:
This was the first time the Stars and Stripes flew in victory over captured territory in the Eastern Hemisphere.
Legend states that Hamet, as a measure of gratitude, presented O’Bannon with a saber 32 1/2 inches long with a distinctive, jeweled “Mameluke” hilt. This style of hilt has remained to this day the pattern of the Marine Officer’s saber.
It was during this campaign that part of the first verse of the future Marine’s Hymn was written : “…to the shores of Tripoli…”
War with Tripoli or Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
Barbary Pirates War 1801-1805
President: Thomas Jefferson
Commandant of the USMC:
Lt. Col. Franklin Wharton 1804-1818
Manning of the USMC: 26 officers, 453 enlisted
USMC Causalities: Dead-4, Wounded-10
Weapons Used:
.69 Cal. Flintlock Musket
At this point in American history, the Barbary states, Algiers, Morocco, Tripoli, and Tunis were exacting tribute, (bribes) from American merchant class ships sailing into the Mediterranean Sea.
The Barbary ports were heavily fortified with numerous corsairs manning well armed, swift ships. By 1785, American ships were being captured regularly and their crews enslaved. America was paying the Pasha of Tripoli $100,000 to ensure the safety and unimpeded passage of her ships.
In June of 1801 the Pasha declared war on the U.S. An early American expedition succeeded in landing a combined force of Marines and sailors which burned several Tripolian ships. In Oct. of 1803, The U.S. frigate Philadelphia, while on a punitive raid was captured after running aground with 43 Marines and the crew taken. (Later, this ship was destroyed in the harbor during a daring raid by U.S. Marines.)
Approx. 400 Marines (4/5ths of the Corps) was embarked upon Naval ships to eliminate Barbary threat to American shipping. Marine Operations aboard naval ships continued through 1804.
A plan was submitted by William Eaton, (to replace the belligerent Pasha Yusuf Karamanti with his brother Hamet,) and was approved by President Jefferson. Eaton sailed for Alexandria aboard USS Argus, which had a detachment of Marines commanded by Lt. Presly Neville O’Bannon.
On 29 Nov. O’Bannon, a Sergeant, and 6 Marines landed with Eaton and by March 8, set out with Hamet, and 500 men, some Greek mercenaries paid for with American gold: along with 107 camels overland through the desert to capture Tripoli and install Hamet as the new ruler.
After a march plagued by mutinies (which the Marines repeatedly suppressed,) and, with the additions of native tribesmen the army of now nearly 1200 set out for Derna. Supported by U.S. ships which proceeded to bombard the city Eaton, O’Bannon the Marines and other troops attacked the city of Derna. By 3:30 the American flag was raised over the captured citadel.
Campaigns and dates:
Enterprise vs Tripolian Tripoli Aug. 1, 1801
Raid on Tripoli May 20, 1803
Capture of Philadelphia by Tripolians Oct. 31, 1803
Constitution, Siren, Argus, Scourge, Vixen, Nautilus, & Enterprisevs Tripolitian vessels Aug. 3, 1804
Capture of Tripolian fortress at Derne-Triploi Apr. 25-27, 1805
Significant Events:
This was the first time the Stars and Stripes flew in victory over captured territory in the Eastern Hemisphere.
Legend states that Hamet, as a measure of gratitude, presented O’Bannon with a saber 32 1/2 inches long with a distinctive, jeweled “Mameluke” hilt. This style of hilt has remained to this day the pattern of the Marine Officer’s saber.
It was during this campaign that part of the first verse of the future Marine’s Hymn was written : “…to the shores of Tripoli…”
Can’t seem to get the site to take my post.
Am I in “timeout” for some reason?
Following the Somali death threats, I think a proper convoy system must be given urgent consideration.
Arming merchant crews, or carrying armed naval personnel, could be effective for what in WW2 were called “independent sailings”, especially if such ships are very fast, but the problem will be the same as in WW2 – what about the enemy who can out-gun, out-run, or take by surprise ?
I think that one form of escalation the Somalis will choose will be to equip a captured ship, perhaps currently serving as a Mother Ship, with fixed anti-tank and AA weapons.
105mm recoilless rifles and 23mm AAA will not be hard for them to obtain, mount, or conceal, thus posing a threat to small warships as well as enabling the pirates to overwhelm opposition from large merchant ships. It is also possible that they might choose to attack one or two ships only with the intention of sinking them, so as to intensify the climate of fear.
I think that this is something which could happen very soon, and the quickest way to guard against it will be to convoy. In the longer term, merchant crews can be trained in small arms, and larger weapons designed for merchant use (perhaps fitted on sea-container sized mountings), but the lawyers will try to dine out on that process for ever, so just bring in the navies right now and save blood and treasure later.
It’s started. Gates says that the pirates were “untrained teenagers with heavy weapons”.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gvLDBih-DUHKU7HXPOYM4aPh82xg
What pirates? The problem, you see, is youths with guns, and a lack of jobs offered to them.
Re Lawyers. Lawyers are the tribunes of the SWPL Yuppie Class.
The whole purpose of Lawyers is to inflict as much misery and damage on non-connected, working/middle class Whites to prevent competition for jobs, resources, women, money, power etc with SWPL Yuppies.
That’s it. That is why Lawyers are what they are.
The entire West is engaged in a titanic struggle: SWPL Yuppies, Gays, Single Women, non-Whites, versus White working/middle class men and married women. Single women form the demographic load of bricks on the balance scale and give decisive power to Lawyers who make SWPL-rigged rule following rather than RESULTS the key determinant to success.
————————————-
As for the Piracy situation, it’s bound to escalate and will in fact bring matters to a head.
Currently there are more than 250 hostages. Italians are complaining (typically) that the US Navy put it’s own citizen ahead of themselves, and are “demanding” explanations. The amount of ransoms are over $50 million, and dozens of ships are now the property of the pirates.
Shipping firms under vastly reduced traffic are pressed. They are at the point of substituting paper towels for napkins in the mess. They cannot afford either seizure of ships or ransoms, even for Filipino crew members.
Meanwhile, transit fees through the Suez canal, Egypt’s principal source of revenue is understandably drying up.
Egypt may be forced to act for self-preservation (and message sending to Iran). Also perhaps to release internal tensions by a military adventure with a victory.
Meanwhile, the pirates have a lucrative business with no real risk, the death of three of them notwithstanding. More and more ships will be seized, the cargo sold, the ships taken as their own, perhaps the captives sold as slaves or hostages to others. Pirates will range farther and farther out to sea, perhaps even nearing Australia. Who is to stop them?
Eventually they will reach a point where trans-Indian Ocean shipping traffic simply ceases. Practically begging a great power to intervene: India, China, the US, perhaps a lesser one like Australia or Egypt motivated by it’s own self-interest.
—————————
Several points are abundantly clear already however:
1. The US Pax Americana is dead. DEAD DEAD DEAD. The US Navy is so small and bound up by PC Lawyer rules for SWPL Yuppies that it cannot eliminate the Pirates which would have been done in record time during the Presidencies of Truman, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush II.
2. Nations like Italy face unhappy choices: either build their own navies to protect their shipping and punish their enemies, or cease trade and travel altogether and hunker down in fortress Italy.
3. There is a power-vacuum in the seas, and whatever great power seizes it first from the US, bound and determined to cede the power of the seas because of it’s SWPL ruling class, can have decisive advantage.
4. OTHER nations in and around North Africa are watching the ease of which Somalis extort money from Westerners bound by PC rules and SWPL yuppies, and thinking that starting up their own piracy/hostage operations will make easy, riskless money.
5. France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, the UK, and Iceland all have long, undefended coastlines, no naval forces, and a weak, supine, SWPL unarmed citizenry who are easy prey for pirates, hostage takers, and slavers who can and will operate with impunity. Each faces potential existential shocks as impoverished, violent, polygamist “winner take all, loser gets nothing” Muslims see how easy it is to use Western technology, GPS, maps, existing freighters, and skiffs, to launch raids on much closer Mediterranean and even Atlantic coastlines with lots of rich, defenseless, easy prey Yuppies.
The Belgian Coast Guard has more ships than the Royal Navy. What, Gordon Brown would call the UN to complain if Moroccan or Western Saharan or Mauritanian based pirates launched hostage/piracy raids on the South England or Wales coastlines?
Being defenseless has it’s own costs. We will see this soon all over the place.
Forgive me if someone has already said something like this, as I don’t have time to carefully read all the comments today, but it seems to me that apart from the deliciously happy outcome of this one incident, there is yet another bright side to it.
The rescue of Captain Phillips pulls the Obama administration a little distance into the real world. I notice that so far no one in the administration has suggested naming our fight agains pirates “the privateers’ hindrance initiative” (or something like that), and it is extremely important that this first, however tentative, foray into dealing with evil was a spectacular success. Think what might have happened if it had all ended badly! Now the Obamans can perhaps move deliberately and judiciously in the direction of confronting — rather that always appeasing and excusing — evil.
Well, it was a nice dream, anyway.
Jamie Irons
We all knew there’d be some who’d say
They didn’t like the harsh, cruel way
The Navy Seals took out the pirate crew
They say to shoot the decent lads
Deprived their kiddies of their dads
And does disgrace the old red, white and blue
Not only that but wait and see
How much more violence there will be
By guys who only want to make a buck
So far they’ve always been so nice
They climb aboard like little mice
So timid that the crews don’t know they’ve struck
But now that we have raised the stakes
Guys like Wick say that just makes
The situation out there far more dire
He wrings his hands and hopes for best
But he could never pass the test
He’s just the kind of guy those people hire
I forgot to mention – our navies should take warning from the loss of the light cruiser HMAS Sydney, deceived into approaching the German raider Kormoran and, maybe, an accompanying Japanese submarine, in November 1941. Both ships sank, but none of the Sydney’s crew ever returned home.
Al Batross #55:
I recall that when our troops went into Somalia in the early 1990’s to help with the relief effort, the major concern was the “Technicals”, pickup trucks with automatic weapons on the back. At least one of these mounted a twin 23MM gun pack off a Mig-21.
It is a simple fact that wars always escalate. In WWII the violence got worse and worse, in the Pacific proceeding from Japanese Banzai charges to Kamikaze attacks that were horrific, followed by the U.S. moving from precision bombing attacks on industrial targets to incendiary raids that burned down whole cities, and finally to the nuclear attacks. The modern “peace” process in which combat tapers off gradually is an aberration, one that ensures continued conflict. The normal process is that violence escalates until one side loses, and that brings lasting peace.
LifeoftheMind: The Alabama was attacked way outside of Somalia’s territorial waters (12 miles), even outside Somalia’s economic exclusion zone (200 miles). Deep water, not littoral.
Which also blows away the excuse of the pirates as being “coast guard” trying to deal with illegal dumping or fish poaching.
Given that the pirates are still using small boats and craft not designed as warships, LCS will still be useful in response.
It is a simple economic equation really. Until this weekend the cost of piracy has been negligible to non-existent. Meanwhile the rewards have been very great.
We should, through back channels, advise the Somali elders that the any further action against American citizens or interest will result in the deaths of those committing the act. AND there will be numerous Predator strikes on the vacation villas of the elders themselves.
When piracy becomes reliably fatal, it will cease. The present situation is a disgrace to every nation that participates in maritime commerce in dangerous waters. If we submit to extortion, we deserve it.
Best,
Richard Moorton
Jamie, #58: As POTUS, of course, it is always Obama’s prerogative to change his mind. Exceedingly stupid on many levels, yes, but his prerogative nonetheless.
Indeed, it occurs to me that a sort of “reverse rope-a-dope” strategy may be at work here: Establish an aggressive stance toward piracy at first, maybe a little too aggressive in fact, not only expecting but counting on something to eventually go terribly wrong – say, a boat or two full of civilians getting shot up by mistake, or a high-seas version of the “Black Hawk Down” scenario – at which point public and world opinion turns against the aggressive stance, giving Obama all the political cover he needs to abandon it, apologizing to the world all the way.
This whole piracy business has become quite a growth industry. As long as it did not get out of hand, shipping company owners and insurance carriers just paid the ransoms as a business expense. IMHO, there are a number of people all along the food chain that are getting kickbacks in this dirty little business. I would not be surprised if certain ship owners are quietly paying protection money to the Somali businessmen pirates to leave their ships alone.
Now the pirates are basking in the sunshine of success, so they have followed their business model and stepped up activities. Now they took on a US flagged ship, with people who look at piracy a little differently, and their business model is in jeopardy. Sure they are going to fight back.
Before they grabbed the Maersk Alabama, the US really did not have a dog in this fight. Now we do.
We can arm merchant ships with any kind of armament, but for a number of ships carrying dangerous cargo, this is not a great idea. I think that ships should have arms lockers with shotguns and M-16s or heavier weapons. But anything more should be tempered with judgment as to what the pirates will start packing, like RPGs and even hand-held missile systems. Packing more weapons is treating the symptoms, not solving the problem. Crew served weapons are for professional military.
I carry a 45ACP semi-auto pistol for personal protection. I have shot bears with a 44mag close up. The margin for error is small. You have one chance. The same goes for pirates. Distance from pirates is your friend. Playing army with pirates should be limited to personal protection for ship’s crews.
The real way to stop piracy is to hurt them at their base. Make the price of piracy too high to pay by taking out their buildings, their boats, their vehicles, their families, and their little dog, too. That is the way it has always been. Read your history.
Glenmore @ comment 7 says:
“The policy of offering no resistance may make sense for most ships and crews, but I think American crews choose the less dangerous path when they resist. As captives they might well be sold to Al Qaeda with the horrible future that would hold. Better to take one’s chances fighting AK-47s with ice picks.”
And that only speaks of the risks of surrendering to pirates and becoming their prisoners up to now. Now even that expectation must change.
The simple fact is that becoming a prisoner is extremely dangerous. Even legal prisoners in the best-run prisons in the world, here in the U.S., run risks. Prison rape is common and medically dangerous, often with beatings. Fellow prisoners are more dangerous than the occasional sadistic guard. Fights and beatings are common, and there are killings. Medical care is usually poor.
Foreign prisons are usually worse, especially in poor countries. But being prisoners of brigands, thieves or pirates carries no institutional protections whatsoever. They can do whatever they want. Once a prisoner, you are almost entirely helpless against any abuse.
In many situations, risking one’s life to avoid imprisonment can be the wiser choice. Formerly in the U.S. women were advised not to fight rapists. But now they are advised to fight tooth and nail, dying on the spot if necessary, rather than allowing themselves to be tied up or forced into a car. Now it is often a question of fighting to the death early, but with a shorter and less agonizing death. What may come after being trapped or bound is often much, much worse.
Who can predict what present or future prisoners of Somali pirates will face? I am not experienced at fighting for my life, but would risk it, to escape the kinds of abuse or death that such captors can inflict on captive prisoners.
It seems inexcusable to me to try to restrict any ship’s crew members from defending themselves against being captured by pirates.
RWE & Habu,
Yes, the sheeple are expendable; just don’t cause a disruption. But just let one of the f___ing feds get hurt and it becomes a totally different story – they won’t stop till they’ve burned down the whole compound. (N.B. Waco)
I have suggested elsewhere that in the future, before engaging pirates again, we should airdrop any interested human rights lawyer to them, into the sea, from a quickly moving helicopter, at about 1000 feet, or 1000 meters if they are Euroweenies.
Yeeee-aaaa-aaah! Splash! To quote Rahmbo, this is called not letting a good crisis go to waste.
@ Sirius Sir: “I won’t repeat the mistake our previous President made in saying, “Bring it on!”
Suit yourself, but I liked Bush’s Best Recipe:
“Bring it on!”
It’s a shame he was brow beaten down from his Cowboy Swagger by everyone from the First Lady to Peggy to MO to PBS to Chris Matthews to all EuroWeenieOPhiles everywhere.
If GWB’s all too brief historical walk on the 9/11 macho side is embarrasing to you, Count Me Out.
LarryD,
The purpose of the LCS is to do as its name says. It will control piracy by blockading harbors, intercepting small boats and support ships and shelling port facilities as needed. It is not designed to be a convoy escort, that being the role of the frigates. Some time ago Wretchard had a classic post that began with a passage from Joseph Conrad in which a tumbledown hull Western ship is shelling a jungle. He was perspicacious, we now need low cost floating gunfire platforms. With luck we get back to the habit of sending our busybodies off to the jungle to assume missionary positions while the gentlemen’s reward for a full day of commerce or justice or bashing the unseen will include Singapore Slings. The bad news will be a return of savage land wars and really complicated female undergarments.
I have this lovely mental image of a couple of US submarines lurking submerged in the waters off Somalia. They can track boats that are leaving land, and then time it to come up for air exactly when said boats are right above them. Boats are crushed, Somali’s are drownded, submarine goes back down.
It appeals to me because the pirates would just start vanishing once they put out to sea. No one could point a finger and bellow payback, or start gurgling about 15-year-old lads being killed. If done correctly, we could start some nifty rumors about dragons and sea monsters lurking in the waters the pirates have been frequenting with a taste for Muslim flesh. And show the Somali’s some old maps where “Here be dragons” printed on them to prove it.
If we *really* wanted to get creative, the submarines could recreate the giant octopus from Disney’s “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea” just in case there were any survivors to carry the story back to land.
If all you can play is defense, you lose.
Eliminate the desire and ability of the enemy to act against you.
Talk allows the enemy to rearm. Hit him harder then he can imagine, but
when he surrenders, when he truly becomes a noncombatant, give him justice seasoned with a bit of mercy.
He must fear, not hate you, my young princes.
I’ve seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid- the way to deal with these robbers is to load a nice tasty tanker filled with gold, slow down, let the pirates board, and then shoot them up with professional armed guards. After a while, no more robbing.
There are very few problems in our world that would not be more easily solved if we were to shut down the law schools and begin systematic persecution of lawyers.
It wouldn’t take much persecution as lawyers are weenies and blowhards who will gladly sell out for very small rewards, like not being required wear pink hats.
Follow up by shutting down the UN and we will enter the Kingdom of God.
Take a look at this article and ponder it. If firearms, etc. aren’t an option for carrying on ships, what about non-lethal weapons? Many of them would likely be relatively cheap and quickly mastered by crews.
Indeed, Israeli “skunk spray” mixed with water from a fire hose would be especially insidious since the wife (wives?) of a freshly doused Somali pirate wouldn’t “open up their treasure chests” for, much less go near, him for weeks or even months afterwards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Less-lethal_weapon
Didn’t all this happen before? – Thomas (not Bill) Jefferson acted (millions for defense, not one cent tribute)way back. Then the captured were sold into slavery – there’s a ship captain book from that era (forget title). Area needs tough “love”:
Change the equation of the economics – within Somali -farming or small shop pays & you stay alive + Piracy is too dangerous and you can go broke or get killed = No pirates.
Way too simple since last attempt failed to rebuild there.
@Jamie_Irons, 58, but the question is what does Obama want to do? He is making political hay out of this successful rescue. It’s not clear that this is the outcome that he wanted but it does seem clear that this was an outcome that he knew was a possible outcome.
In a way Obama is now held hostage by this outcome. Expectations are now high for any pirate hijackings in the future. Will he look for the same outcome in the future? Dunno. There was a lot of talk about bringing the pirates to justice that had a more ‘take ‘em alive’ feel.
It does seem that Obama wants to ‘solve’ this pirate problem, for some definition of solve. With the killed pirates and the cries for revenge from the pirates it seems that it’ll be only a matter of time before another American-crewed ship is boarded.
Utopia, #77: In a way Obama is now held hostage by this outcome. Expectations are now high for any pirate hijackings in the future. Will he look for the same outcome in the future? Dunno.
Those expectations will evaporate the first time his (surprisingly) muscular approach to piracy goes spectacularly awry. This brings us back to the “reverse rope-a-dope” strategy I mentioned back at #65, whose very purpose is to provide a “teachable moment” that would show America and the world why an aggressive stance toward piracy was such a bad idea.
Joshua, maybe, maybe not. There are two somewhat different things here. A hostage situation and the ‘War on Piracy.’
If you had to have a hostage situation this is the one you would choose. The situation takes place on a tiny boat several hundred miles at sea. Millions of dollars worth of US Navy ships and helicopters and Navy SEAL special operators are moved into position. There’s no way that the hostage-takers can escape or get aid from their co-pirates. Those pirates had one chance: to give themselves up. They weren’t smart enough to take it. It was a dog day afternoon for them.
I, like every American, have witnessed hundreds of hostage situations, on TV. They pretty much all turn out the same. Once SWAT gets there the bad guy can only give himself up or kill himself. He’s not getting the million dollars and a helicopter ride to Mexico.
Obama also knew all this. He could not possibly just sit there and say let’s negotiate with these pirates, they’re really just misunderstood. He had to act. Maybe he wanted to try the bad guys in a court somewhere but he also had to allow the SWAT team to take its shot if it became available or the life of the hostage became clearly endangered. This is all in the FBI hostage situation guide, I’m sure. If by chance Obama didn’t know this he had advisors to tell him. He had no choice but to act forcefully to solve this.
But that was a hostage situation. Something that was thrust upon us and had to be dealt with. A war on piracy. A campaign to solve the piracy problem is a much different and much larger problem. How Obama will deal with that remains to be seen. He may not pursue a military solution with vigor but it remains to be seen.
Apparently there is a post at National Review Online ( I can’t access it) according to Hugh Hewitt, by a former Special Forces guy who claimed that the commander in charge of the snipers purposely misinterpreted Obama’s order. He interpreted ” don’t shoot unless the life of the prisoner is in grave danger” order as an AK-47 pointed at the Captain.
If true, this report undermines the meme that Obama actually successfully dealt with the hostage situation. Whiskey suggested the same thing in another thread.
Our real enemies aren’t the Somali Pirates. It is the lawyers. As long as lawyers are immune from the death and loss that they cause the more uncivilized the world becomes.
@Nahncee – “I have this lovely mental image of a couple of US submarines lurking submerged in the waters off Somalia. They can track boats that are leaving land, and then time it to come up for air exactly when said boats are right above them. Boats are crushed, Somali’s are drownded, submarine goes back down.”
Or, affix harpoon to sub nose and ram ‘em down, Capt. Nemo style.
Whoops! Three more ships hijacked! Seems fearless leader, the Greatest Military Hero since World War II, has not had quite the deterrent effect on things in that neck of the woods.
Hell, the hijackers are probably hoping they find someone to surrender to, since that means a free ticket to court in America, probably no more than a year or two in jail, and then release right into an American street. Jackpot!
Lawyers will operate in their own interest.
If pirates were killed outright, the trials, appeals, book deal spinnofs, negotiating contracts etc. would be removed from the market area.
“Givea man a fish,and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish,and you lose a wonderful business opportunity.” K. Marx
Just wondering what the administrations response would be to a group of let’s say KKK or Neo-Nazi lads hijacking some vacationing minorities off the coast of Florida – just to gather funds for a new clubhouse or beer money?
‘Back again. ‘Did some poking into ancient anti boarding techniques and tools.
It seems that the first of he most successful steps usually include the use of grapeshot, parrot rifles and short range firearms.
There’s an awesome selection weapons around, but when I consider 1/knockdown 2/reliability 3/ fire superiority and 4/damage to downrange objects, The old Trench Broom our Fathers loved, the humble Thomson .45 might fill most all the requirements with style and ease.
The ball ammo bounces off most bulkheads and pipes, increasing hit probability while reducing downrange puncture damage a bit.
No point in having more than a deck swab and a few paint touch ups to face after that kind of ordeal.
Of course, the first weapon to be deployed when they breach the gunwale should be a hot blanket of 00 buckshot.
I expect that the combined noise of the semi auto shotguns and the distinctive clatter of the Tommy would give any survivors something to tell the rest that would give them pause to consider another career.
Not a bad choice if big belt fed swivel mounted stuff doesn’t fit the budget or decor.
I personally favor the particle beam and energy projection weapons.
They can be pricey if you don’t have a coupon tho’..
Piratates have to climb over the rails of the deck…usually from a ladder attached to the ship? Electrify all frickin’ climbing ladders. Zap the sons of bitches with 100,000 volts when half way up, sending them into the drink. No firearms needed.
It’s up to the shipping owners, and they will do whatever they deem to be the most cost-effective.
I doubt that they will arm the crews; most likely some companies will hire Blackwater-type guards and some will continue paying ransom.
I expect that there will also be some sort of limited preemptive military activity, which will probably not be strong enough to address the problem.
Just arm a few merchant ships with some heavy weapons, and let them go hunting the motherships.
I’m sure all kinds of hardware is available at many of the ports they visit, and them loading some heavy crates wouldn’t arise any attention. And there isn’t a shortage of trained operators for the weapons if you have money to spend.
After they are done, just roll the cannon over the side, take a clue from the Dems, “there is no evidence of wrongdoing”.
To hell with all the stinking governments.
JWT@69, Don’t presume to know my estimation of our former President based on your inability to read sarcasm.
Next time, for your benefit, I’ll include the obligatory scare quotes around “mistake.”