The NYT describes the state of play.
Negotiations over the American captain taken hostage by Somali pirates broke down on Saturday, according to Somali officials, after American officials insisted that the pirates be arrested and a group of elders representing the pirates refused.
Somali officials said the American captain, Richard Phillips, and the four heavily armed pirates holding him hostage remained in a covered lifeboat floating in the Indian Ocean about 30 miles off Gara’ad, a notorious pirate den in northeastern Somalia.
The negotiations broke down hours after the pirates fired on a small United States Navy vessel that had tried to approach the lifeboat not long after sunrise Saturday in the Indian Ocean. … the vessel returned to a nearby Navy destroyer, the Bainbridge, after the pirates fired warning shots in the air, according to an American military official. … Mr. Abdul Aziz said that the Americans insisted that the pirates be handed over to Puntland authorities, and the elders refused. By noon local time, the Americans cut off communications with the elders, he said.
What happens next is a matter for conjecture. The men, both captors and captives, cannot remain in the lifeboat forever. One unrecognized element in this drama is the media. The international coverage given to the crisis and the involvement of “elders” has introduced a political factor into the equation. “Face” is now involved, and this may complicate any resolution. Now the crisis not only has to be resolved, but resolved in a way that the politicians can present as a victory. Let’s all hope for the safe return of Captain Phillips and end to the situation which allowed the pirate threat to arise without similarly empowering merchantmen to evade or defend themselves.
The fact that these so-called “elders” refuse to arrest the pirates is a clear indication that either: 1) pirate activity is not unlawful at least in this part of Somalia, or 2) the elders do not have the power or the political will to arrest them.
We should find out quickly which way it is. Are the elders benefactors of pirate activities? My hunch is #1. I’ll bet they live in nice houses with servants and multiple wives.
Last I read the pirates had somehow gotten fuel and were heading to shore.
The only way they could have gotten fuel would be for us to give it to them, assuming the reports that there were out of fuel were correct. So, there seems to be an information gap between what’s happening and what we’re hearing about.
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/africa/news/article_1470358.php/Lifeboat_with_US_captain_nears_Somalia_talks_failed__Roundup__
One thing is fairly clear, though, and that’s how the media will likely spin this: Whatever Obama ends up doing will be the best option available, and it will be held as an example of the limits of US power.
DAS
I’ve provided you with some vital notes back on the tread entitled Thinking it over?
I sincerely hope they benefit you.
In 1712 Joseph Addison penned the play Cato,a Tragedy. It became very popular ,well known, and quoted. Inter alia it deals with themes as individual liberty vs. government tyranny, Republicanism vs. Monarchism, logic vs. emotion and a host of others. It received hearty endorsements from such prominent people as Alexander Pope.
But perhaps the most famous line to ever be uttered from that play was from the gallows of an about to be hung Nathan Hale (whose statue graces the grounds of the CIA headquarters in Langley, Va.) who said:
I only regret that I have but one life to give my country
It may be time for the good captain to make a move and ponder those words; for we cannot be held ransom by terrorists or, ipso facto, we will cease being a great power.
What is it about these Democratic presidents that they can’t seem to understand what our military is for? Clinton sent the US Navy to Haiti, apparently with orders not to shoot, and our ships were ordered home when some thugs threatened them from the end of a pier. Now Obama has done something similar with the Somali pirates. If you are going to threaten force, you’d better be prepared to use it. Obama, just as Clinton, has misused our Navy.
Pericardis alive or Raisuli dead! Ancient history to some. (Only about 100 years ago.)
Pericardis dead and Raisuli alive! would seem more fitting today. Rather than be a “war criminal” and act in a reactionary way against pirates.
Whatever.
Habu,
Apparently the Captain did jump off the lifeboat but the US Destroyer was a mile away and did nothing.
Did the warship do nothing because they were too far away? Or because they needed permission from “on high” before they could engage? But this was a perfect opportunity to delegate to the commander on the scene.
But of course FBI Hostage negotiators have to earn their pay (but they could do that by interviewing any surviving pirates). What the US needed to do was strike within minutes of the US navy vessel arriving. By letting it run on, they no doubt have the Pirates on land threatening other hostages that they hold.
This is just my opinion, of course. President Obama needs to show that, in addition to bowing to Thugs, he can also stand up to the least of their minions. I’m afraid he is failing the test.
It’s one thing to go about demolishing the Bush Presidency because it is politically expedient. But these people sincerely believe their own BS. Oh, well.
They say that a Conservative is a Liberal who has been mugged.
I think one can safely say that Obama’s administration is being mugged right now. I’m holding out hope that Obama will ride the learning curve and that, given a couple months more of piracy and Euro-allies’ milque-toast intransigence, he’ll realize just what a pile of BS his advisors have been feeding him all these years.
From the ‘church’ to the ‘hood,’ from Davos to Frank Rich, from Pelosi to Ayers, from the Duke faculty to Al Gore: they’ve been BS’ing eachother on so many fronts and for so long that they don’t know which way is up. It more and more clear that it’s up to the man, Barak Obama, to find his own way out of the woods.
We’ll learn a lot about this man’s fortitude in the next two months. Here’s hopin.’
Obama believes that he is standing up to thugs. Unfortunately he also believes the thugs are in the US military and the Republican Party. There is no reason to believe that he would turn on his enablers and supporters to validate the beliefs of those he has spent his entire life opposing.
I was surprised at an interview with a presumably experienced sea captain on Fox News a couple of days ago. He said that arming the merchant ships would only make things worse because the pirates would respond with even heavier armament.
I suppose that the captain who made that statement is just a non-combat guy who wants to ply his trade without being bothered by nasty things like guns, but it is hard to understand his reasoning. If you give the civilian sailors M-16’s and the pirates upgrade from AK-47’s to, say, 13MM machine guns, then at some point the situation ceases being that of a citizen trying to avoid being mugged and becomes a W A R. Which, frankly, makes things much easier, if for no other reason than the politicians sort of know what a war is and do not understand a mugging at all.
Personally I don’t understand why Blackwater and their ilk is not in this big time.
Steveaz @8: Very good post. Gives Obama a chance for redemption. In my opinion, he’s an ‘elder’ in the anti-American gang named in your second paragraph, very skilled in smoke-screens, poses, class warfare and voting ‘present’, but thanks for giving him the benefit of the doubt. He is President of all of us, and I too hope he learns to act like it.
In other smoke-filled rooms:
The NYT’s description of negotiating with ‘elders’ is an advertisement for the other side. All our diversity freaks are programmed to respond with exaggerated respect to little cultural flags like ‘elders’, and to yield moral superiority to them.
Whereas, if whoever they may be (was an age-group poll taken?) are ‘negotiating’ in favor of pirates and kidnappers, they themselves are part of the gang, tribe, NGO or whatever. And if said NGO habitually hijacks ships for ransom, they’re pirates and should be treated traditionally, by the standards of Western civilization.
And if ‘international law’ looks more and more like a suicide pact, it’s time to change or abolish it.
It’s already quite clear to me that the pirates have won.
All that’s left is the ransom delivery, the safe passage of the pirates to Somalia and the formal, national apology from POTUS Obama.
It is disgraceful that a brave man like Mr. Phillips should be abandoned to the fates which lawyers and State Department weenies dicker over. The reluctance to apply the might of the U.S. Navy and to give the Muslim pirates the cold, hard steel, as Thomas Jefferson did, is the measure of what has become of our nation.
I say we should give this new Law of the High Seas the heave-ho and keel haul it. But, alas, the effete legal minds have not the stomach to give Muslim pirates what they deserve.
Happy Easter. God save us all. It is painful to live in the time of the decline of Western Civilization.
It seems surreal. Reports are saying that the US Navy is just going to let the pirates take their captive away onshore. I imagine that once he’s on land with them the situation becomes a lot more complicated and difficult for us.
According to the media, we had these guys on an out of fuel lifeboat surrounded by our warships and we’re just going to let them take this guy away with them. That seems to me like a total humiliation.
hey
will some smart person please recap for all of us the way the bush administration stood tall against the Chicoms regarding the spy plane incident in his first 90 days. this ”historic prez” is a pussy and we are loathed to admit it. frightening huh…the toothless usa after kicking ass and taking names in iraq.
the ploy that barry obama is trying desperately to float if this ”smart diplomacy crapola”. yo, ”man we know the sociological structure of a tribal people and we’ll just rap with the tribal leaders”. wrong answer…they just spit in our face since the elders are on the take also.
its almost as funny as the moms and pops outfits (the anti-KBR crowd )that are doing the logcap in afghanistan at this time. what inexperienced bozos. like barry sending in social workers and community planner types to get ”down ” with the Kabul homs to restructure the hood. i wish them well.
if i was a plugged in republican senator or house member, i’d show up tomorrow in a pirates costume and eye patch to shame the media into coverage. only over the top action is required for media coverage to occur. check out glenn beck…he is aware of the inside deal.
(a personal preface, slightly OT) Habu, thanks for the notes you left on the other thread; they were good; at the same time you are smart enough to catch my meaning even when my vocabulary might not be picture perfect.
Anyway, back OT, I feel like a reactionary dunderhead for having to ask: don’t we have Navy Seals who are trained for these very contingencies? And the old chestnut (still relevant): why do we have all these nuclear subs when guys with speedboats and machine pistols can so disable us? Just wipe the effers out – after we get Phillips back…
RWE,
Personally I don’t understand why Blackwater and their ilk is not in this big time.
Great question but Blackwater no longer exists in it’s previous name or mission; driven out of business because they did their job too well and the left would not hear of that, ever.. Other “ilk” in that field are persona non grata with the pusillanemous resident in the WH. He’s soiling his panties right now.
I think many of us are going to have to recalibrate our notions of what type of country we live in and what type of countrymen we have living along side us.
obama still has an approval rating in the mid 60% range. He has various constuencies openly hostile to this nations founding and underlying foundation and principles. The Congressional Black Caucus being the most powerful anti-American outfit. All members of the communist backed Democratic Socialist Party … check it out .. http://tinyurl.com/4mevd
We could go down a list of base operations, military,financial,medical,education etc. a functioning Republic such as the USA needs to have free and funtioning as best as possible and and not find a function working corretly at this time. obama is using up time that is not on our side vis a vis other major powers, and even pirates.
As Brutus said to Cassius;
There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
Hello miseries and lost ventures.
DAS,
I was hesitant to post that because I did not want to insult your knowledge. You are aware that so many of our fellow citizens believe we have a democracy when in fact it is a republic. I indeed understand your message which was well stated.
First, the ‘solution’ that would have prevented this embarrassing standoff passed us by long ago, as we allowed piracy transgressions, large and small, to pile up without vigorous response (lads in NYC jumping subway turnstiles without response from transit cops, as it were). Banging the table at this point is fruitless.
Second, since the ebarrassing standoff will likely be followed by an equally humiliating capitulation of some sort, best to make this tactical retreat as soon as possible and with as much dignity as can be mustered under the circumstances.
Third, to avoid the inevitable acceleration of piracy encouraged in the wake of such a ‘victory’ for its adversaries, the West would have to follow its tactical retreat with a vigorous and ruthless eradication program, using many of the same mapping, tracking and analytics which helped the military get a handle on insurgent activity in Iraq — a Rudy Guilliani-style, zero-tolerance ‘broken windows’ approach.
This would only be the minimum needed simply to re-institute order. Longer term, it could be complemented by a ‘surge’-style alliance-building ‘awakening’ strategy as a step toward the re-establishment of order in Somalia.
But all this presumes the West still has civilizational confidence and political will equal to the task, which of course it hasn’t. Which is why we won’t see many Russian or Chinese flagged vessels seized ot harrassed, because they’ll refuse to put up with this nonsense.
Insufficiently Sensitive, RE: Steveaz @8
Perhaps. Take heed, do not make the assumption that Dear Leader’s core values are shared by either you or me. Do not make the assumption that the definitions of cherished words and concepts that you [and I] hold fast to are shared, by him, or those who have his ear, regardless of whatever honeyed words he has uttered to still the unease the population senses in their gut.
Those assumptions, or good will if wish to label it so, has been the shield he has hidden behind, and the cloak that the MSM has wrapped him in. Fortunately, I learned a long time ago to watch a man’s hands [and his eyes..], not his words.
My opinions are not shaped by the words, they are shaped by deeds. This IS Obama’s defining moment, and no amount of ‘blue-screening’ will wash away any decision, or deed, deemed shameful or foolish.
You know, I know it, and the enemies of our Republic will know it too.
Obama thinks this will blow over by the 2012 elections, and voters will conveniently forget about his bungled, wimpy performance.
He doesn’t understand that this will spawn more piracy and his entire Presidency will be spent dealing with one damned hostage crisis after another.
The basic problem is a lack of will, which is a strategy. The lesson is that pirates may not attack US flagged ships that policy need to be clear and direct. That US ships may do defensive action including deadly force. Then equip them and train them.
The pirates are using commercial systems that track merchants and then steal or pirate a larger ships and go out an wait and using commercial GPS and basic small arms and RPG’s. Basic tech and thinking. Since we cannot attack every large fishing vessel, then only eliminate the actual pirates when they attack is the viable solution. Commercial shipping should be empowered to take deadly action to defend as well as less lethal devices and tactics. We need is a new attitude, not new tech. If we decide that to take out the pirates land bases and villages then we have PR problem when we kill a lot of non-military and non-pirate civilians. Obama does not want to get into nation building in Somalia and take the bad PR of killing Somalians villagers and fisherman so I doubt he will decide to take action on the land bases.
Shipping companies are cheap and keep crew costs low. They figure that it is cheaper to pay the odd ransom than pay for arms and training of crew. Plus they worry about mutiny from the crew if they have guns. The other issue is that small arms on a freighter has to have arms closet that can be locked whir in port for customs clearance and delays off loading of cargo. This increases cargo costs.
However what shippers are refusing to understand is that the cost to the world’s navies to hold clear a lane in the Gulf of Aden is very high and the navies are not going to save every ship and be involved. The insurance costs will make the shipper change the business model and include defensive costs. Why should the US pay for foreign shippers to ship for free? The world’s navies will start to insist that shippers shoulder this cost themselves.
There are alternatives on this situation. The first need is to retrieve the Captain dead or alive. When he volunteered as a hostage he placed his life at the pirates hands and in a sense allowed it to be the cost. Of course he hopes that he will not have to pay that cost.
The are many plans that have a good chance of success but all entail the risk of death to the Captains and navy personnel. The first thinking is that the Captains life cannot be held more valuable than American response and prestige. So his life may be forfeit.
After retrieval of the Captains then blow the pirates out of the water or if they have been given safe passage then we destroy the ports fishing vessels as the cost of attacking American shipping. This does not kill Somalians and Obama will probably take a similar tactic.
Later we track ransoms and impound the payments through the worlds banking system. Treasury has experience in this with the war on terror tracking and eliminating terrorist s bank accounts.
Treasury can problably track and put pressure on the banks like they have done in the WOT. But we have to get into the banks in Africa and we have been reluctant to get into those. Assistance from Belgium that runs these banks would help. We can probably get the authority under the present banking crisis.
We also have to enact international law that states that deadly force against pirate attacks is OK and that we can have a trial at sea and shove them over board with USN in attendance or officiating. I expect the USN does not want that responsibility.
The real issue do we want to bother? Political reaction insists that the policy of not doing much other than scaring them off will change and needs to be done and we need tougher policy against pirates. The pirates do not enjoy any liberal or political world support so the political costs are low.
Americans do not care much about the pirate and can be convinced that we have no legal authority to eliminate pirates until they attack American shipping. Then the emotional reaction and interests change and we insists that respect be enforced and deadly force needs to be done to get the idea across that American shipping can not be touched.
Chinese will start to get that way and the Indians have already started down that road. Russia will do the same strategy and so will France. Britain and Germany will be wusses and the commercial shipping companies need to be convinced that it is economically a better idea to defend, than allow their ships to be taken and pay ransoms. The insurance rates and change in coverage and current economic recession will force that change since shippers can no longer absorb the ransoms and loss of shipping revenues when the shipment gets impounded by pirates for months.
The other issue is basic power politics. If the world see some 2-bit criminals in skiffs and AK47’s push around the USN then we will have no respect anywhere. It is our power that is feared and we cannot be seen as so powerful technologically and can be pushed around by muggers. It is like a DC street gang grabbing the VP and saying pay us off and never prosecute. We could never sustain that loss of power.
So the question is answered, yes we have to respond. What response will deliver the message? I think sinking the vessels in a port or two is sufficient to appease American wrath.
The unfortunate aspect is now the Captain cannot be ransomed since this is a matter of prestige and his life may be the cost.
Next time do not volunteer to be a hostage. Americans should know that by now. We cannot allow ourselves to be captured and must fight to the death if needed.
I bet that Merchant Marine Academies will start to teach and train defensive arms and repelling boarders’ techniques once they learn the stakes.
CPT. Charles,
I know better than to make the assumption that Dear Leader’s core values share mine. My assumptions are rather the opposite. I’m holding off final judgement to see if the evidence of his acts confirms the initial impressions I gathered on the Internet prior to the election (vastly different than the fawning MSM picture). Being civilized, I’ll bend over backward to provide him a chance to represent all of us, and even allow some time to this greenhorn for a learning curve.
But there are limits, and the combination of vast redistributionism and limp-dick national security (if not the outright defeatism of his campaign) will provide same, right soon.
The Somali “elders” should simply be told – in the manner of a worthy Englishman of another era – That we of the West have our own customs: we hang pirates – face be damned.
Does the FBI plan to read the arrested pirates their Miranda rights?
So Obambi has throw the negotiations over to Monty Python?
Yes, let’s make this a farce.
It’s a Sum of All Fools.
(1) recover the captain dead or alive, kill all those holding him
(2) destroy the ports which the pirates are known to use: quays, warehouses, vessels, repair facilities, fuel depots. Pay lip service to avoiding “collateral damage.” (At least, on the first visit).
(3) Put 4-6 man defense teams on a significant percentage of vessels in the area: load them on, take them off, as they enter and leave the danger zone. ROE: anything within 0.5 km that is not positively identified as friendly, fire for effect and call for backup as needed.
(4) naval forces ROE: approach and search all suspicious vessels. If resisted, sink it and let any survivors swim. If arms found aboard, same.
(5) Tell insurers that any ship not agreeing to (3) will NOT be supported if pirates attack it.
(6) Rinse, repeat.
It is early afternoon, Eastern Time, where I am, and I wonder how Captain Phillips spent his Easter.
Easter
Down the stone laid street, past the jeering crowd
Whipped and scourged, thorn crowned and bloody browed
Prodded by soldiers, laughed at by some
Carrying his cross, His Father’s time come
On Calvary hill he laid the cross down
In the distance lay shining Jerusalem town
They nailed him by hands, a spike through his feet
Then raised the cross high in the afternoon heat
A legend was posted for all to peruse
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews
The soldiers all laughed as the man hung his head
Casting lots for his clothes before he was dead
He asked for a drink and received a sharp spear
The blood and the water signaled death was quite near
His eyes raised to heaven, He cried out in pain
Oh Father, dear Father, I shall see you again
His ordeal was over, in tomb did He lay
While soldiers stood guard by night and by day
He lay there all day and the following night
But on Sunday morn, with the coming of light
He rose from the dead, His Father’s work done
And stepped from the tomb to greet the new sun
Announcing His presence to those he held dear
He told them His Father’s salvation was near
He ascended to Heaven, his earthly life through
Having died for our sins, and for me and for you
Happy Easter
Walt Erickson
Point taken, IS.
But there lies the difference between you and I. Like you, I scouted out the facts on him. But my POV is this: I’m a first generation American, born of a father who escaped from a ‘workers paradise’.
I have this man’s measure…I don’t need to see a skunk to know it’s nearby.
To date he’s done nothing prove my opinions of him are in error.
The only question now is: what state will the Republic be in when he departs. And hopefully we’ll have a ladder high enough to get us out the hole he’s digging for us.
Why would these pirates give up their hostage now? They have seen how much leverage they get. And why wouldn’t they get more?
And if this works off the horn of Africa, why wouldn’t it work elsewhere?
These folks are pretty sharp. They have a very large number of hostages, and obviously have read the various human rights tracts and are familiar with international law. Heck if they are caught and are granted asylum, they should try for belgium and get on with the internation court there.
This is either a manage and keep off the front pages issue, which is the current strategy, or a situation where you come up with a daring and conclusive action, which has a large potential of catastrophic failure from a political point of view, even if it puts an end to the piracy.
It must be said that strong action a year ago, or whenever it started would have been far easier.
Derek
Re my comment at #26: as a technical/operational matter it would seem possible to include some helo gunships on the merchantmen. Just park them topsides like dragonflies for passage through “interesting areas.” Give owners a tax credit for supporting the mission in this way.
There is also the utility of bounties. Tell the Somalis that we will pay double the ransom for each confirmed dead pirate involved in any hostage-taking. Get them to fight among themselves.
Cheers for US Navy. Cheers for the courage and pluck of Cpt. Phillips, he never gave up.
The situation is resolved.
So then, what’s next? Continuing resolve or business as usual?
Apparently Obama had the good sense to see the Abyss at his feet and turned away; now on to NK.
The Captain has been freed and three of the pirates are dead, one captured.
It sounds like the Navy Seals did the job.
“This Captain is a fighter and a fighter that knows what is worth fighting for. Unfortunately, that is not the mindset of most of the crews that are out there.”
Former Navy Seal
PS–hang the surviving pirate.
Navy’s got no more submarines? Come up underneath them, like?
Chum the bum.
Forget hanging.
RWE
“If we decide that to take out the pirates land bases and villages then we have PR problem when we kill a lot of non-military and non-pirate civilians.”
A PR problem in the ME? Really? That meters pegged dude, and ain’t noth’n gonna turn it around since it’s all sh*t ass Islams and their philosophy.
Where we would have a PR problem is here in the USA where the Left wants the US taken down as badly as Iran does.
I’d say right now the odds of a civil war in this country are as great as anywhere else in the world, probabaly better. An increaing mongrelization of immigrants with no allegience to the USA is not a sound formula for stability yet that’s what we’ve got all over the nation.
Yeah the Left and it’s cadres have weakened the foundations of this country to the point where anyone can walk in and get the goodies…just vote Democrat. I wonder how close we are to the tipping point? Gunsales are off the chart since obama won. It looks like a nation gearing up for war.
Now now blert…tradition must be observed.
After a fair trial, of course.
Why are they being called elders? They should be called war lords or pirate chiefs.
Habu, there is not a “civil war” but rather an eternal struggle in the West between elites and the populists. Something that has characterized the West since about 1000 AD or so.
What is different this time is that women have sided decisively with the elites. Tipping the balance of social, political, cultural, and economic power. It’s not the Congressional Black Caucus, Blacks make up only 12.5% of the population. It’s not La Raza, Whites are still 65-70% of the population. It’s not Bill Ayers, or other trust-fund radicals because there is not that much of them. It’s not even SWPL yuppies because while there are a lot of them, there are still not enough of SWPL + Blacks + Hispanics + Gays to win decisive political, social, and cultural victories.
It is rather women who are the bricks on the balance scales, and they needed little general persuasion because their genuine short term interests are aligned directly with the elites.
Captain Phillips has been freed by his own bravery and the SEALS disregarding direct Presidential orders (highly likely reading through the lines).
This is a disaster for the elites, because it diminishes their power and increases that of populists. Expect punishments for all involved, and examples made.
USA-1 Pirates-0
The “Big Dog” has bitten back, more than likely with “snipers” which would have posed less risk to the captain. The Captain is safe. Three of the four pirates dead and the fourth captured.
Simply put “we don’t pay ransoms”, period!
My hat goes off to whomever planned this operation. Class!!
Approval for these operations come from the President. Fact.
This is a job for four US snipers.
Habu (@17)
Blackwater no longer exists in it’s previous name or mission; driven out of business because they did their job too well
Good riddance to Blackwell. For the money we were paying Blackwell, they should have given us an honest report, not lies, about what happened on that square in Baghdad.
Stuff happens, but they should not have tried to lie their way out of it.
There was a question as to why SEALS were not attacking the boat. I keep seeing it on other sites too. There seems to be a misconception. I would put our SEALS up against any Special Warfare teams in the world. However, popular mythos notwithstanding, we do not have all that many of them. That is a problem with SpecOps forces all over the world. There was recently a major policy debate in Britain whether they could find 30 [thirty] additional personnel out of the entire Brit armed forces who were good enough to expand their SAS with 30 more operators and not drop standards. They couldn’t.
Reality. We have less than 3,000 SEALS/SWCC personnel on active duty, worldwide. A significant portion of them are support personnel and not active operators. A goodly chunk are somewhat occupied on operations in places we all know about. More are at Little Creek and San Diego training, prepping, and supporting operations. We do not have SEALS on every Navy ship at sea. I did not expect that they would be on the BAINBRIDGE or the HALYBURTON. They may have had some sent to the BOXER which is in the area but not immediately on station as far as I have heard. I don’t think there are any Marines on the HALYBURTON, but maybe on the larger BAINBRIDGE.
Similarly, there may be some submarines in the area. No Marines on board, but there may be some SEALS on one if we have one of our SpecOps subs in the area. Guess what? We don’t have that many subs dedicated to SpecOps.
There are a lot of Marines on the BOXER, a number of which are definitely sniper and Force Recon qualified, and they may have been choppered to the area. However, that makes the assumption [which I do not share] that such movement and preparation has been allowed by the White House. In short, we are likely down to what we have on board the DDG and FFG [I was surprised to see the PERRY-class FFG, because I thought they had all been scrapped]. There has been an increased emphasis on small arms training and ship security, especially in that part of the world [the Navy remembers the COLE] and they quite probably have some better qualified shooters on both ships on scene. But they are not snipers per se.
With the political and ideological inclinations of our current National Command Authority, I currently expect that this is going to end badly, with Captain Phillips being taken as a hostage to the Somali interior, and/or being killed. If we do get him back, it will be at a cost in concessions [overt or covert] that will come back to haunt us.
The fault is not with the military. They are willing to do what they can. It is in the political chain of command that holds them back.
Something to note. No matter what happens, unless a miracle intervenes, the career of the captain of the BAINBRIDGE is over. They are going to need a scapegoat. This will be noted in the military community.
Commander Castellano is/was on a fast track. Besides being selected for command of a new DDG, he was an Associate Member of one of the CNO’s Strategic Studies Groups at the Naval War College and has published works on command and control structures and decision making processes. Fortunately, he is class of ’90 at the Academy, meaning that he entered in ’86 and therefore has his time in for retirement unless they take it away from him in a court martial.
I rather suspect that much of the military and national security apparatus have been waiting for the other shoe to drop since January 20. The handling of this crisis is going to drive quite a few career decisions.
Subotai Bahadur
MikeS – last report I saw, forensics testing indicated the bullets involved were not Blackwater’s. Interesting that you’re so totally willing to believe that Americans are murderous and always at fault. Bet you also think that the Israeli’s shot the Palestinian kid Al-Dura (if he was, indeed, shot).
UPDATE: AS I WAS WRITING THE ABOVE AND JUST BEFORE I POSTED [AND I DID NOT GET THE NEWS UNTIL I POSTED] WORD CAME THAT WE GOT CAPTAIN PHILLIPS BACK. I AM OVERJOYED TO HAVE BEEN PROVEN DEAD WRONG!!!!
Subotai Bahadur
What I’m remembering from the Carter/Iran embroglio was the total disgust of most Americans that we had this totally magnificent military, and Carter refused to use it. There was a sense then of both disgust and embarrassement that a bunch of Persian “students” could rub America’s face with impunity into the dust and face no reprisals.
I wonder if Obama’s polling indicated a similar disgust and embarrassment among his electorate in his softly-softly handling of the pirates.
“Face” is a two-way street. If you have a surrender monkey as a President and he goes one surrender too far, he’ll be out of office.
Our ships were “redeployed” to the area, this takes time. They were deployed for a reason. The Seals did a great job.
Remember folks our ships can’t redeploy as fast as you can respond by email. Things take time, but in this new media world, no one has a chance to sneeze anymore, before the “critics” come out of the woodwork.
Think before you start criticizing our leaders and give things a chance to come into action.
Okay I guess it’s time for someone to dissect this posting..
Cpt. Charles @ 27,
First things first: Bravo the US Navy and that smart Captain who enabled them. The fate of the fourth pirate will be a good indicator on how seriously our Dear Leader takes national security, and how much he regards ‘international law’ as a suicide pact.
Re: what state will the Republic be in when he departs. And hopefully we’ll have a ladder high enough to get us out the hole he’s digging for us. Amen, brother.
RWE:
What do you do for a living?
I was a U.S. naval officer in the 1980s and have been a professional seaman since then. I didn’t see the Fox News interview you mentioned, but I agree with the captain you saw.
Arming civilians mariners would make things worse, not better.
Mike Sylwester:
Why are you so willing to believe the Blackwater operators lied. I find it far more credible that the Iraqis who complained lied, and that news media willfully trumpeted those lies without presenting any argument or evidence in Blackwater’s favor.
Mike @41…
It has been established in other actions that AQ has deliberately shot into civilian crowds during a framing ambush attack.
The idea is to thwart the American ROE which is so restrained that it’s only the perps that are getting shot at. Such restraint drove AQ nuts since the absolute essence of their strategy was to have the entire society enraged at the American liberators.
This gambit was used not just against Blackwater, but against US Army patrols.
The Haditha trials further established under oath that insurgent forces used the gambit there. It’s use has faded since the perps were still killed anyway. It was for killing them that the Marines went on trial. As the facts of Haditha came out, case by case, everything fell apart and the cases were dropped.
It almost reminds you of the malign prosecution of Senator Stevens. Apparently the theme was “Anything Goes.”
Mariner,
I agree, arming the crews would be a drastic mistake. Water cannons and flares and maneuvers
are the best bet for cargo crews.
Nations need to band together and agree NOT to pay ransoms, but they must also contribute with ships and personnel to protect the shipping lanes.
Cowering in by paying ransoms, is only making matters worse.
Some of the Blackwater guys have agreed to testify the truth about what happened. They don’t want to be blamed for what a few of them have done. The few who murdered people have been indicted by the US Government and will plead guilt or will be convicted.
Anybody who has read published accounts of the incident knows that some Blackwater guards wantonly murdered Iraqi citizens.
I don’t see why some of you feel compelled to deny the blantantly obvious. Let’s call a spade a spade. Some Blackwater guards murdered a bunch of Iraqis in broad daylight, and then Blackwater tried to cover it up.
I am so glad that Captain Phillips took his own fate in his hands and jumped overboard and the USN was alert this time to take out the pirates and recover the Captain.
The punishment is yet to be determined and that has to come from the White House. I will guess ship destruction at a harbor is a satisfactory response. But they have to be careful not to strike at any captured freighters and possibly harm other hostages. Obama does not want his bleeding hearts to rise up is disgust at killing fishermen and villagers.
Bombing Eyl will be totally useless to counter-productive.
It’s a geographic cut-out.
The perps commute to get there.
BUFF raids are loaded with blowback.
Just start targeting the pirates in their sand buggies. ONLY pirates can afford them and they sure as hell stick out.
The real players are in Yemen. What could be more obvious?
For all of the money received is it not strange that essentially none of it stays in Somalia? Pirate spending within Somalia is but a trivial fraction of the action.
The Somalia pirates are but Yemeni stooges. With out the Yemeni connection how in hell do the pirates bank their loot? There’s no banking system worth the name in Puntland. Get real.
The sharks in those waters need to be fed. I think we should enable their species to survive longer. The Great White Shark is indeed in great trouble. I don’t think they mind Muslim meat.
But limp wristed, hermaphrodite Eric Holder has to have his way, so we’ll Mirandize the pirate and he’ll have his day in court.
“I don’t see why some of you feel compelled to deny the blantantly obvious.”
Forensics and all of us are wrong, and you are right.
It seems to me that the one being compelled to deny the blatently obvious might be your very own self.
What is blatantly obvious is your fixation on the past and crying about Obama.
Your “assumptions” are placing the cart ahead of the horse…you are going nowhere.
Captain Richard Phillips is free and the story has a happy ending and an ending of the purpose of the thread. Goodnight!
The forensics won’t get the Blackwater guys acquitted. They’re guilty as hell.
Wow, Mike. You would have acquitted OJ too, I’ll bet, because the DNA evidence meant nothing.
OK – that’s fine. Now I understand where you’re coming from.
Subotai Bahadur writes:
UPDATE: AS I WAS WRITING THE ABOVE AND JUST BEFORE I POSTED [AND I DID NOT GET THE NEWS UNTIL I POSTED] WORD CAME THAT WE GOT CAPTAIN PHILLIPS BACK. I AM OVERJOYED TO HAVE BEEN PROVEN DEAD WRONG!!!!
programmer responds:
My compliments, sir. Sie sind ein echter mensch!
Both upthreads from this are closed. Wish I understood why.