A UK government report warned that an attack by a chemical or radiological “dirty” bomb was likely to happen in Britain within the coming years and that mall managers had better get ready.
The assessment came as Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, unveiled a UK strategy to tackle the terrorist threat. As part of the plans, managers of shopping centres and stores will be among 60,000 workers trained to help deal with the danger. Ms Smith described the threat as “severe” – meaning an attack is “highly likely” and “could happen without warning”. … The Home Secretary identified “shopping centre managers, store managers, people who were responsible for the security in those areas”, as being key in the battle against terrorism.
The Telegraph identified a number of factors which were responsible for the heightened danger, notably the existence of al-Qaeda, the spread of weapons technology over the Internet and the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The report says the risk of a chemical, biological or nuclear attack has been heightened by the pace of technological change and the spread of specialised information and knowledge via the internet. Its authors point to evidence that al-Qaeda has tried to recruit disaffected nuclear scientists in Pakistan and Iraq and has deployed chemical bombs involving chlorine gas cylinders in Iraq. The problem has been made worse by the smuggling of nuclear material from the former Soviet Union, where over 1,300 incidents have been reported since 1993.
Gee. The terrorists found the nonexistent chemical weapons program in Iraq? Imagine that. The British authorities alluded to UK citizens who traveled abroad specifically to learn how to blow up their countrymen. “We know that some British citizens still travel abroad to be trained in how to commit terrorist attacks, that terrorists want to strike the UK again and that they will keep on trying. … From experience and through research we now know more than ever before about how some British citizens are being drawn into terrorism. We are using this understanding with partners to divert people away from this path.”
Translation: Pakistan. Some of these British citizens are already back. The Herald says that “more than 20 Britons monitored by Pakistan’s intelligence service, who are believed to have spent time with radical militant groups, have returned to the UK, according to a report yesterday. The men are said to have trained with extremists linked to al Qaeda and the Taliban and are thought to pose a potential threat to British security. The dossier of names is expected to be handed over to British anti-terrorist teams soon and is being seen as a “big leap forward” in the sharing of intelligence between the two countries, the report claimed.”
Those 20 whose dossiers will be handed over after the press release is distributed are a drop in the bucket. According to Jeremy Page of the Times Online, there are a burgeoning number of terrorist institutes in Pakistan and doubts among the cognoscenti about whether they can be effectively tracked by Pakistani intelligence, given that many of these are trained in the northwest frontier badlands.
British security officials estimate that about 4,000 people have been trained in this way in Pakistan or Afghanistan and now account for three quarters of serious terrorist plots in Britain — which explains why Pakistan features so prominently in the new counter-terrorism strategy.
The new approach does not resolve the two issues at the core of the problem: the sympathies of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, and the lack of any state control in the tribal areas on the Afghan border. …
Pakistan’s police force is too poorly funded and trained to handle counter-terrorism. Its civilian intelligence agencies are weak and rely on the ISI for information and resources. So British counter-terror strategy depends largely on the ISI, which helped to create the Taleban and has long used militants groups as a proxy to fight Indian rule in Kashmir and offset Indian influence in Afghanistan.
The results from Pakistani cooperation have been less than total success. As a result, the UK is now facing a heightened threat. For example, the Mail says that British are watching out for the use of radiological roadside IEDs, bombs which are a cocktail of both explosive and nuclear material. Jeremy Page says that “since the British Government cannot stop British Pakistanis travelling to Pakistan, most analysts agree that the only way to prevent them from undertaking militant training is for Pakistan to shut the camps.” Because that may not be forthcoming, the British authorities have decided to create a second line of defense: the Stasi society.
British citizens will provide their own layer of counter-terrorist security by being encouraged to confront people who “threaten democracy” while more shop, hotel and service industry staff will be trained to deal with terrorist threats under the government’s new terrorism strategy. …
Ms Smith said that 30,000 workers had been trained to help respond to a terror attack as part of the strategy, and said that programme would be extended to a further 30,000 people.
The Home Secretary denied that the plan amounted to “snooping”. She said: “If terrorists want to target crowded places I think it’s right that we put in place, as we have done, a programme of training for the people that manage our shopping centres, pubs, restaurants, clubs and hotels. That’s what we’re doing to help people be vigilant of the threat from terrorism and to deal with a terrorist attack were it to happen. That’s not about snooping, that’s about the widest possible range of people helping to keep us safe in this country.”
The Contest 2 strategy has four strands – Prevent, Pursue, Protect and Prepare. These cover preventing radicalisation of potential terror recruits, disrupting terror operations, reducing the vulnerability of the UK and ensuring the country is ready for the consequences of any attack. There has been criticism that the government has had limited success in discouraging extremism and radical Islamist preaching in the UK in recent years.
“Prevent, Pursue, Protect and Prepare.” How the mighty have fallen. Thirty years ago, the watchwords were Detect, Deter, Delay and Defend. Military technology has advanced a long way, but philosophy, alas, is past its Golden Age.
The british are finished. Sold their inheritance for a bowl of Pakistani pottage.
If Western Europe wishes to survive as western countries, they will have to ship their Muslim populace home. If Britain wishes to survive as Britain, they will have to ship their Pakis home. If they don’t they will die.
Thou murd’rous subjects of the Queen
Thou killers massed for war and death
The world doth note the horrid scene
Thou wish the land of ‘Lisabeth
But British valor has not died
It doth but sleep yet waken still
It shall be wroth with those who’ve tried
To bend old Albion to their will
Its the culture. Brittian once was proud of its heritage. School boys were taught that bravery and duty counted for something. Not so much anymore. Now they are taught to be ashamed of the evil imperial culture that once ruled the waves. They don’t value anything enough to stand and fight for it. They have about two decades on us.
Well, let’s take this further.
Suppose a wave of attacks do happen. With both Bombay style shoot-em-up attacks on various soft targets: schools, hospitals, malls, big stores, and government offices …
And more mass casualty affairs like 9/11 or the 1993 WTC Attack (planned for killing 50,000 by toppling one tower onto another). While Chemical and Biological and radiological (dirty bombs) have their own horror, the mere act of say, hijacking a loaded air freight jumbo jet and crashing it into a soccer stadium can kill upwards of 30,000 people at a go.
Well, what then?
Obviously whatever organization can do such a thing or reasonably take credit gets men, money, power, and influence inside Pakistan or wherever, which is why THEY do it. It’s all about them.
But what about Britain?
Obviously, the British government, whole system of governing and elites would collapse like that of the Soviet Union when they ran out of money to pay their thugs and the coup attempt was botched. We are looking at a total loss of ability of British Government and society run to elite (and let’s be honest, female-oriented) lines (same thing really) to provide the highest hierarchy of needs: physical security.
At that point, some ambitious youngish man with combat experience will form an “emergency militia” and put the nation under martial law. It’s tailor made to produce a Cromwell or Napoleon. And the Dictator’s solution will be simple and easy: cut through the consensus and feminized views of elite society and simply imprison and deport EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM.
Because then society has devolved from civil norms into pure survival. Like the first Rambo movie or Bear Grylls on his reality show. People will do things they would never normally do when it’s survival at stake.
It is extremely unlikely the measures the British government is taking will work. It’s extremely likely we will see some of this stuff take place, if for nothing else that it brings money, men and power to the plotters. Particularly since the US government is likely to “reach out” to the killers under President Barack Hussein Obama, who reminds every foreigner he was born and raised a Muslim, and has many Muslim relatives.
This also brings with it the loss of Pax Americana, and every nation for itself. With most nuking up as quickly as possible, and throwing all foreigners out, limiting trade as much as possible.
All because lack of will to confront our own feminized, deeply pacifist and status-driven elites leaves ordinary civil society defenseless and we get either random terror to submit to Islam or the Jackboot of Great Men.
The worse news is that it will not work. The reason is that while in one office the crusty old Security Wallah is writing tough regulations and plans to have reliable people observe and evaluate in the office next door a Multicultural Outreach Coordinator will be rewriting these new regulations into mush and then ensuring that any new jobs in training, staffing and evaluating this Homeland Defense operation will go to, surprise get this, representatives of the concerned communities. That means that whoever is fronting for the next Captain Hook will be only to happy to provide staff for the operation.
OK. just let them out demographic us,which you know they’re doing, gain the bomb and we’ll be finished. Or we can do something about an ideology that promises to kill us. But for heavens sake don’t advocate anything dramatic like massively preempting them.
With the flood of trouble pouring in from Pakistan by what nature of madness is HM Government standing in the road staring at the headlighs?
Why in hell is it that radical imams are left to rant and rave for years while collecting government assistance?
How can a society anchored on royalty for social norms survive its Prince’s infatuation with islam?
How can a nation walk away from its life insurance: Trident boomers?
When will ‘Beat Retreat’ become the battle drum of the Guards? The Beefeaters? The Blues & Royals?
And so, every Brit a Stasi… righteous defence being replaced by paranoia and ranks of tattlers.
Now all of Britain is The Truman Show…
The US refused to release estimates of the number of Iraqi dead in Desert Storm. They put out a ridculously low estimate of 100,000. Heck, we killed that many when they retreated from Kuwait on the Highway of Death.
I guess the PC protocol calls for any large numbers of a population be dispatched over several generations. To do it in a lesser time is politically gauche,even if the two ideologies are totally immiscible and one, Islam, has since it’s inception said it will kill ALL INFIDELS. Yeah I’m crazy, so lets do some stalling the inevitible with diplomacy by starting an ADOPT-AN-ISLAMIC- SHOPPER-PROGRAM. Yeah that’ll work.
…Maggie Thatcher not withstanding, the coming defense of Western culture will have to be a male lead, male manned operation. Of the 400 or so firefighters and police officers who died trying to save the trapped on 9-11-01, only one was a female…a police manager who was killed when the command post was crushed. Women just don’t have the physical leadership qualities needed. If the Islamists are so foolish as to attack and kill a large number of innocents, I think Britain will change and do what it must to win, no matter how terrible that is. They have a record of winning at whatever cost, as well as a record of waiting to the last minute to decide.
Just a couple days ago, the police in Israel were able to dismantle a large car bomb in a mall parking lot in Haifa. Something went amiss with the triggering mechanism. A narrow escape.
Arthur Sleeps In Avalon, Will He Arise, Excalibur In Hand? The myth says aye.
Sometimes a bit of honest introspection will lead one to an answer to a complex problem such as the Islamic conundrum.
Then again the experiences of other nations can lead the way. I believe Belgium is providing us the guiding light. Headline:
“Politicians Fret as Muslim Population Swells in Europe Amid Little Integration.”
Bingo! We can have a giant FRET. Perhaps a FRET SUMMIT where the Islams will demand cutting off the head of some middle staff person in the State Department as an opener, just to show sincerity.
We’ll just kick the FRET down the road,generation after generation until sharia law says we can FRET no longer. But hey ,we would have tried.
Headline by:
//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510364,00.html
That’s simply brilliant. If the domestic terrorists or muslims, whatever you want to call them, make plans to attack, you don’t monitor them at their militant headquarters, you know, the mosque, you instead teach their targets to be more vigilant. That is like the old airline instruction, “in the event of a crash landing, put your head firmly between your legs and kiss you ass goodbye”.
I got a great idea; instead of turning your country into a pathetic police state, why don’t you try not allowing terrorists in. You’ll have a civil war with the terrorists but that is exactly what you bought into when you decided to have Islamist enemies emigrate into your pacified population. Not too smart.
Bob @11 – Yes, Arthur will awaken.
Whiskey @4 – Yes, that Arthur will be Cromwell or Napoleon, maybe even Edward Longshanks.
For reason, see 2
But British valor has not died
It doth but sleep but waken still
It shall be wroth with those who’ve tried
To bend old Albion to their will
I am amused on two points. First, the reaction by the Labour government when the Glasgow airport and the car bombs in London went down, was to formally declare that there was NO SUCH THING as Islamic or Muslim terrorism or terrorists. I also note that their first reaction to the baggage handler in Glasgow who helped stop the bombers was to try to charge him with assault and hate crimes. That vanished right smartly when the public declared him a hero. In any case, if it is not Islamic or Muslim terrorism, who are they supposed to be looking for?
Secondly, there is this:
British citizens will provide their own layer of counter-terrorist security by being encouraged to confront people who “threaten democracy”
In Britain it is a felony to defend yourself when attacked or to go to the aid of anyone who is being attacked. The concept of British subjects “confronting” anyone “threatening democracy” is laughable, if only to keep from crying. In any case, if they were to really confront those who were “threatening democracy” there would be Guy Fawkes fan clubs all over bloody Britain.
As far as the Brits giving up their nukes; since it is not likely that they are going to be an independent nation much longer, that becoming part of the Caliphate is not out of the question, and there is no provocation that could conceivably lead to them using their nukes against an enemy; I would just as soon that we bought them from the Brits. We have enough trouble with Muslim states with nuclear weapons. No need to add another.
Subotai Bahadur
What’s the rancor all about? The Home Office is simply validating what we knew ever since those brave citizens put an end to flight 93: The government is basically worthless, more interested in first responders rather than first interceptors. Any of us might be called upon to fight the enemy on our own turf (please see Militia Act of 1792.
16. Captain Ramen,
Bravo Sir for your clear thinking. It is a moral and ethical duty for each citizen to defend the rights of man and in particular his own life.
Subotai Bahadur makes his usual excellent point with clarity also.
Me, I’m just going to FRET until they get out of line. Then an entirely different note of discord will sound. Jeez, I just scared myself.
I think with all the fretting going on, the Brits might get Pat Metheny to set it to music. Call it the Man-Caused-Disaster-Waltz.
Maybe the Archbishop of Canterbury can get everyone together for a big hairy group hug. That might do.
Are any of the British researching the people who thought it would be a good idea to teach the colonials Marxism and colonial theory at Cambridge and the London School of Economics in the mid and late 20th century? Talk about a bunch of wets! Haters of their own world, and too spoiled and self-righteous to just leave.
It seems to me that if there are some more serious attacks there, legal culpability for these wets under the British system might just be establishable.
Its the passive-reactive approach to islamic terror. The MI5 in the UK are watching 2000+ active islamists who may do something. They cannot act pre-emptively. Your CIA have got involved because some UK muslims would like to have a go at the US, obviously. So we’re just sitting here waiting, basically, for something to go off. Any ordinary individual who does challenge the islamists, like at Luton, gets arrested by the ‘police’, so there is a weary sense of inevitability. The Contest 2 strategy – nice, feminine words. But utter hubris to think that someone, even a fanatic, will change their mind when “challenged”. Did anyone “challenge” the Nazis? Ah yes, they had a signed paper! Peace in our time! Illusion!
If any of you yankees want to help us brits do this: Write to your senator and get the visa waiver stopped. Our government dont want to face the truth, maybe that would clear the fog.
And if something did happen, what would follow? Nothing. Everyone is watching TV.
Dunno whether Britain will recover and get back its balls. Or whatever was it what even the fierce female warriors of bygone times had and what is decidedly missing in the gene pool of male members, for the two big wars may have nearly killed off that trait.
Meanwhile, got mail:
——————————-
*Divorce agreement*
Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists , Marxists and Obama supporters, et al:
We have stuck together since the late 1950′s, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has run its course.
Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right so let’s just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.
Here is a model separation agreement:
Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by landmass each taking a portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.
We don’t like redistributive taxes so you can keep them. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU. Since you hate guns and war, we’ll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA and the military. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell.
We’ll keep the capitalism, greedy corporations, Wal-Mart and Wall Street. You can have your beloved homeless, homeboys, hippies and illegal aliens. We’ll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO’s and rednecks. We’ll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .
You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we’ll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us. You can have the peaceniks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we’ll
help provide them with security.
We’ll keep our Judeo-Christian values… You are welcome to Islam, Scientology , Humanism and Shirley McClain. You can also have the U.N. but we will no longer be paying the bill.
We’ll keep the SUVs, pickup trucks and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru station wagon you can find.
You can give everyone health care if you can find any practicing doctors. We’ll continue to believe insurance is a luxury and not a right.
We’ll keep The Battle Hymn of the Republic and the National Anthem. I’m sure you’ll be happy to substitute Imagine, I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing, Kum Ba Ya or We Are the World .
We’ll practice trickle down economics and you can give trickle up poverty your best shot. And since it often so offends you, we’ll keep our history, our name and our flag.
Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I’ll bet you ANWAR which one of us will
need its help in 15 years.
Sincerely,
John J. Wall
Law Student and an American
P.S. Also, please take Barbara Streisand & Jane Fonda with you.
—————————–
Habu, Capt. Ramen,
Cleaning up our homeland, or the Brits’, is a trivial problem. I howled when I saw a Russian author’s prediction that the U.S. would break up, with Mexico getting Texas and the South. Fact is, the rural male population of East Texas alone could conquer Mexico with pickups and deer rifles.
No the job is to spread the meme that the only solution is to carpet bomb with neutron weapons everything from Indonesia to Mali. Then when Cromwell appears, he will feel free to solve the problem forever.
@ 22. ridgerunner
How about deicide? Wouldn’t that be preferable to sterilization of large swatches of the landmass? Dismantle the edifice and you only have to deal with those places that would stubbornly insist on keeping that cult. Indonesia was a majority christian just a few centuries ago, it is quite likely that it may become that again if the conditions are in place.
BTW, christianity is quickly gaining ground in China. If the current trends would continue, it is quite possible that it would be the only christian nation left standing. Not too long ago, the ideology section of Chinese government conducted a study which was to get to causes of success of Western civilization in the past (as opposed what is happening at present). The conclusion was that it was the christianity that was instrumental as the backbone of the success. I am not sure whether there was some plan to put that notion in action, but it seems at least that there is a tacit agreement to let christianity organically take its root. On the other hand, they try to suppress an indigenous religious movement of Falun Gong, because they think it may be detrimental to China.
Re: deicide…
It seems that no government is willing to do it, let alone consider it. It is quite likely that this may be only possible as a private enterprise. And I don’t mean nuking. There are other methods (or can be developed) that would do the job without the green afterglow.
twobyfour,
Deicide could work, but only if it is motivated from within islamic societies. Malians would likely switch, given the correct alternative. Pakistan, never. So the program could start with the hardcore and move judiciously to softer versions of the 1400 year-old totalitarianism. The latter could always save themselves if they so desired.
Deicide could work, but only if it is motivated from within islamic societies.
That won’t happen until hell freezes over, or in another 2000 years when something other replaces it. Do you believe in unicorns? Me neither.
The choice, as I see it, is to remove one pillar now and deal only with hard core islamists that would not accept the obvious, or later be confronted with a large scale war, with all its guts and gore and sterilized no-go zones and with uncertain chances of winning.
Looks like an unsolvable dilema… /sarc
Deicide
——-
Budget
Intial: < $10 million
Long term: < $100 billion
Initial casualties: <1000
Consequent casualties: $10 trillion
Casualties: > 2 billion
Result: Uncertain, 50/50 chances of Islamization worldwide.
Deicide
——-
Budget
Intial: less than $10 million
Long term: less than $100 billion
Initial casualties: less than 1000
Consequent casualties: less than 100 million
Result: Islam as religion is a history in less than 50 years.
Fester mode
————-
Budget: more than $10 trillion
Casualties: more than 2 billion
Result: Uncertain, 50/50 chances of Islamization worldwide.
Wretchard: Front-line Shopping Mall
Which reminds me, NOT to go into any mall openly advertise “Here is a target rich free-for-alls”.
I know, we have a totalitarian coup taking place and I am pondering about a danger that is not as immediate. But it may be not as unrelated as it seems on the surface.
@ 29. always right
And stadiums, and campuses, and downtown centers in the rush hour… you name it. The point is not to go to a cave, but to make the other fella go to a cave.
I know that people can have strong opinions, but please try to be moderate in your comments.
2X4 has it. In the Article HMG refers to those who “threaten democracy”. These people dont threaten democracy. They threaten modern Western civilization, which is to say Christendom. Elites in London, NY, LA, DC and other major political power centers and campii may not believe it but this is still a Christian country. That’s why we can live the way we do. (I could explain it but most of the BC already knows how that works. and my typing is painfully inept)
Islam is a cult based on the idea that mankind must be forced to know allah. I think thats because allah is such a pussy of a deity that if it was looked a seriously it would get laughed out of Valhalla or Olympus or the Home for Old Deities.
In England, the effects of the post WWII emasculation of the society has included the gutting of the church. 200 years ago the church was shelter for the intellectual (theoretical and philosophical) discipline of the nation. Now we have Rowan Wms. Because of that gutting, nobody can stand up to the cult, since the cult is all encompassing and self confident (instead of islam it could just as easily be scientology)
It may be that 30,000 lives may be the cost of a reawakening, but I doubt it. It would take a rediscovery of what it means to be English, and I think thats gone. I think that if they do it right (say 500/week) it may take a few months but they’ll win in a walk.
@22 ridgerunner,
Sorry, but that’s nuts. Sure, I believe that as Americans we can do anything we put our minds to. But do you know any Mexicans? They are a proud people. Like our rural population, their rural population has guns. Lots and lots of guns.
@23 twobyfour,
I don’t think it matters how many Christians there are in China so much as how many of them are communist party members, and how many of them will be allowed to rise to powerful positions in the Politburo.
Why British merchants will just have a “dirty bomb sale” and go about their merry lives I guess.
“If any of you yankees want to help us brits do this”
That’s “yank” to you, limey.
“I howled when I saw a Russian author’s prediction that the U.S. would break up, with Mexico getting Texas and the South. Fact is, the rural male population of East Texas alone could conquer Mexico with pickups and deer rifles.”
Heh. That prediction made me laugh, too. The rural male population of Minnesota could do the same with Canada. Of course, we aren’t as likely to as Texas. The Mexicans have been major pricks from time to time. The Canadians tend to actually be a pretty decent sort.
But if we did, we’d only have to conquer Eastern Canada (especially Quebec) and maybe Vancouver. The rest of them would likely join us.
I don’t believe ridgerunner is advocating doing it.
The way I read his/her note is that we want to make sure our enemies know that we have a shotgun at home and are not afraid of using it. Hopefully the pump action “Click, click” noise will be enough for the sane(r).
No.15: We are seeing the beginnings of this in the US. Those who supported 3rd party candidates (now redacted), fly the DONT TREAD ON ME flag or other such American acts are suspect and possible militia members and a danger to America. Being a member of the NRA, a life time member of the Minutemen, a registered Republican, I`m sure I will be (am) on the list to be sent to one of the reeducation camps blogger Don Surber jokingly refers to but as Mr. Obama`s friend Ayers so seriously desired. Not completely a satirical opinion.
You’re right, always right. Careful reading would make the discussion less fractured. Phrasing could be more careful as well, mine included.
My viewpoint is simply that there is no deterrence without physical retaliation, which initially can be less than total. If that doesn’t work, then utter destruction of the bases and states that sponsor Islamic terror is warranted. The response to 9/11 should have been permanent seizure of the Saudi oil fields.
I guess what losses one is willing to inflict on “innocents” is a function of how much one values capitalism/rule of law, democracy, scientific advancement, intellectual freedom, conservation of natural habitats, women’s rights, humane treatment of animals. None of these values of Western Civilization exists to any extent in an Islamic culture.
In WWII we were ready to kill as many Germans and Japanese as would be necessary to stop their lesser threat to our values. Why should our response be weaker when facing an existential threat mediated through terrorism and demography? Why indeed?
“Write to your senator and get the visa waiver stopped.”
Not a bad idea at all.
“The Mexicans have been major pricks from time to time. The Canadians tend to actually be a pretty decent sort.”
It the one over here that advocate Mexican nationalism that are a pain. The ones in Mexico that advocate nationalism are just like anybody else who is proud of their national heritage. By and large Mexicans are real good people. It is the messy interface at the borders and cross border mash up that gets ugly.
#24 twobyfour – I can present another method of doing what you suggest, and it is a useful byproduct of something we in the West should have started doing 30 years ago (at least) and should start doing now.
I’d like to give the infection focus a nice present. Actually quite a valuable one, delivered direct to their HQ. I refer to a billion tons or so of high-grade nickel steel.
Of course, those around the area wouldn’t like the delivery method much; straight down, at escape velocity. We could always be ready to give them a few more such presents, too.
When was in college, the politics majors had three theories outlined for the future of Europe over the next few decades.
1. Europistan.
2. Massive Right-Wing backlash.
3. Europe ceases to formally exist in any recognizable state.
I’m beginning to think that option two could be the most likely. Superficially that might be good, we all want Europe to find its balls.
But I worry that the backlash will be extreme. They’ve gone so far in one direction that a massive change of course could lead to the opposite extreme. The fascist party in Austria received thirty percent of the vote in the last elections (they want to legalize the Swastika). Small phrases in Wretchard’s post like training people to resist those who “threaten Democracy” have an ominous subtext.
If the backlash happens, it could very easily get out of hand. I don’t know if you’d see an internal revolution in some countries so much as existing governments cracking down on dissent and Islamic extremism very hard.
No one does “Knight of the Long Knives” as well as the Europeans…
Because I’m a huge movie fan, I’ll hold up “Children of Men” as an alarmingly prescient take on the future of the UK. A dystopian socialist police state, where Muslims and other foreign elements are imprisoned in camps. Of course, the Muslims and other fringe groups violently riot amidst the breakdown of civilization.
What struck me about the movie was how true and real it felt. The policies the UK is pursuing now amounts to open borders for Islamic radicals but an increasingly 1984-style police state. The end result can only be the society of “Children of Men.” If you haven’t seen it, it is worth a look.
#13 Annoy Mouse – you pinpoint the insanity. Why can’t the British see it too?
@ 45. Fabius: “But I worry that the backlash will be extreme.”
Extreme? You mention only the political manifestations of extremism. If, and that is still a monstrous if, this backlash occurs the excesses will make your skin crawl. Think of Vlad the Impaler, the Thirty Years War, the Inquisition, the WWII labour/death camps.
Extremism is something not foreign to the European. Nevertheless, I betting on 1. Europistan, followed fairly rapidly by 3. Europe ceases to formally exist in any recognizable state.
If the oil ticks actually do hit peak oil and are no longer able to sway Euro-politics:
Massive muslim starvation in their desert lands… reduced petro-fertilizer use due to economics causes a complete collapse in European food exports. The calories are just not there.
Pan-European race riots as the local muslims take out their rage against the natives for the suffering in alien desert lands.
A complete free for all as European armories are emptied by the citizen army of ex-servicemen.
End state: racially segregates repression of a severe nature rather resembling the old South.
Without oil exports the muslims have no clout.
The political impact of even reaching the peak figures to be traumatic in the extreme.
And I’d say we’ve actually hit that mark in 2008.
The electric car and the nuclear plant are going to ruin the European oil market.
“By and large Mexicans are real good people.”
Really? Would that include all the bribed cops, and gang-bangers both there and here, and AWOL from their army gun-runners, and illiterates and litterers and breeders of packs of children and batterers of women and drunken drivers? What exactly is there about Mexicans that you find to admire, other than the fact that most of them seem to know how to run a leaf-blower at 5:30 in the morning and will do it for real cheap?
Poor pre-natal conditions an a weak school system contribute to the impoverishment of the Mexican intellect.
Survey after survey, test after test reveals the appalling result: the typical Mexican has an IQ a full standard deviation below the typical American.
Those few who are well above average do extremely well as they very quickly become foremen and later business owners, typically in construction or service trades.
As for the average illegal immigrant: denied a decent education in his homeland and with a sub-normal ( by American standards ) IQ his life is one of long labor and toil — typically bled by the coyote mercilessly — his relatives as hostage to payment. More serf than man, many live the life of a beast. You can hardly believe the trashy ‘camps’ that some farmers use for the pickers.
Not surprisingly many are pimped out as mules and meth cooks. Hence the illegals by various means manage to addict our high school kids and get themselves thrown into prison in such numbers that we’ve had to build them their own — so as to cut down on the prison gang inter-racial fights.
So the illegals have bombed our matternaty wards, clogged our courts and prisons, crank out the crank, rove the roads with uninsured (stolen) vehicles, beat down wages in the trades and retail all the while filling our schools with below average IQ children. At the end of the day, their adolescent males gang up and go after the natives: Afro-Americans being their speciality. Racism is not stigmatized by La Raza, it is affirmed.
So I guess open borders is the way to go… down hill … fast.
Even in this bleak hour, not everyone is supine:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1074032.html
In the Industry @ 52:
The Israelis do so much more that never sees the light of day. Having spent some time there, one thing EVERY Israeli will say is ‘this country was founded on one thought – NEVER AGAIN.’ They will not go quietly into the long night, be sure of that.
As to the nature of this post, there is a lot to say.
1. As to the UK – They may just quietly fade away but I doubt it. More like they will fight and endure much before finding their nation again. When the SHTF, I would not want to be a Brit Muslim.
2. Mexicans and Mexico – Two different things entirely. I was born there and grew up in a US border state in a town as a WHITE MINORITY. The local Mexicans (PC term is now Hispanics):
- would not hesitate to gang up on us gringos to kick butt but would NEVER fight mano-a-mano – NEVER! We had daily lunch time brawls right off of school grounds in 9th grade in the downtown area – surfers on cholos. They are cowards to this day.
- the state government is so corrupt it makes Huey Longs’ Louisiana look like amateurs and it is run by the old patron system. Getting a state or local city government job depends on you having the correct last name. Jones will not pass muster.
- they are the most prejudiced group I have ever seen. They hate blacks with a passion. Not many blacks in this state.
- the Mexican drug cartels make the Columbians look like Sunday School teachers. They are the most violent people you could ever hope to see. And their presence is bleeding far into this country. The DEA shut down meth labs in rural counties and the cartels saw the chance to own that product line. Now there is more of that s–t than ever and of better quality when the authorities ALMOST had the issue beat.
- the cartels are getting their guns from the narco-states in Central and South America NOT US gun shops. Guatemala, Venezuela, Nicaragua are all players here with the backing of Cuba. And Mexican Federales who just have gone deserter in fear and take the arsenal with them IN COMPANY SIZE GROUPS! Mexico has already reached failed state status it is just no one will admit the same publicly in the US.
The bad players of the world are just waiting to see what happens here in the US. Do we:
- fail as a society and culture and dissolve into civil war? Win for their side. We are removed as a player on the world stage.
- fail as a financial power? See above. Then we are open to looting from the South and it will be similar to Mad Max’s world here. Small confederations of states but no cohesive body to resist.
- somehow pull ourselves together. Then the Muslims, Mexican cartels and other bad actors who would see us fall have cells in place and they can continue doing what they were – waiting for the right times to act. And how much is the paranoid US (DC) axis really not telling us about what goes on inside our own borders? More than you think I have this strange feeling. Just because Alex Jones @ infowars is a nutter does not mean he may not have his points. (Much as that pains me to say ‘cuz I think Jones is certifiable.)
We should:
1. Close the southern border immediately. It is a ‘clear and present danger’.
2. Throw all the illegal immigrants out after they serve their jail terms. Re institute the old chain gangs and have those chain gangs WORK at hard labor. Mexicans, Canadians, Muslims – I do not care.
3. Finish Iraq right. We almots got it done there thanks to our soldiers and their smart leadership – finally.
4. Go fight the real war in AfPak. Kick a$$ & take names. Then proceed to rebuild. We should be done by 2019. It will be cheaper in the long run. Trust me.
5. Amend the Constitution to enact term limits for Congress. Three terms are enough. Also, enact laws that the Congresscritters can only make their salary. Nothing else. Pay their expenses. Oh, and they have to fly coach everywhere. No more planes for Pelousy and her ilk. Coach. PERIOD. Stack up enough frequent flyer miles to fly 1st once in a while and good on ya. Make the per diem rules look like what the rest of us have to follow.
6. Amend the Constitution to allow only public funds for national level elections. Strict limits to be applied and followed. Laws about reporting also the same. Break those laws and go to federal jail.
Maybe 7. Dissolve the 111th Congress by bringing all law breakers in that body up on federal charges. Call special elections if we must. Throw the bums out.
–he choice, as I see it, is to remove one pillar now and deal only with hard core islamists that would not accept the obvious, or later be confronted with a large scale war, with all its guts and gore and sterilized no-go zones and with uncertain chances of winning.
But our problem immediately is the fifth column at home, just like the fifth column in Britain. And I don’t mean the Islamic immigrants. I mean the elite Left that is quite aware of the devil’s bargain they’ve made.
Until we change our K-12 schools and our colleges, their ideas will be the only ones indigenous.
What’s astonishing to me is how the Left’s glorious hope of centralization is about to descend on us, and it’s that very feature that picks the future hero–it won’t be a Churchill. It will be a Napoleon. Not just in Britain, but here too.
Bush and co. tried extremely hard to fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to prevent a world wide conflagration–in order to prevent us nuking part of the Islamic world. Obama’s inability to cope, inability to articulate, inability to reason, and inability to handle the rage stoked by Congress makes it clear that he will immediately pick the nuclear option.
Does the Left do anything other than projection?
#54
Gotta disagree. Obama will never pick the nuclear option to defend this nation, which he loathes. He will hasten to dismantle our protections and disarm us (he’s already made strides in that direction), and will side with our enemies in all conflicts: because he’s one of them, not one of us.
It’s all in his memoirS. He hates our guts, despises our civilization, and is getting off on the prospect of castrating us, all the while purring over us with the most exquisite condescension. Just like he used to “handle” his stupid whitey grandma.
We’re not going to be able to rally to fight any of this, either here or in Britain or on the Continent, without a standard to rally around and some leaders with real courage.
Beverly…
I met both H and his tutu…
There is such a rage there…
Hard to comprehend…
H hates the American norms and his forebears…
With a passion.
But his mother and grandmother did, too!
His whole dang family hates the American dream!
Robohobo @53
Your characterization of illegal immigrants is spot-on. What elese could be expected from the spawn of human-sacrificers and Moorish-influenced conquistadors.
In the early 1770′s, “long-hunters”, British-Borderer-descended frontiersmen from Virginia south to north Georgia, often harvested deer pelts in the Indian country of what is now Tennessee and Kentucky. They traveled alone or in pairs trying to avoid detection. One famous episode is useful for evaluating the outcomes both in Britain and in the US.
A lone long-hunter was spotted and pursued by about a dozen Cherokees. He led the chase for an hour or so, loading his rifle as he ran, and when loaded stopping to drop the nearest pursuer. He felled half the Indians in this manner before the remainder lost interest in being the lead-Indian. The Borderer-descended immigrants did not come explicitly for genocide, but they were more than ready to do what it took to get the land. Their genes, and culture, are present throughout the South and Texas. These folks will not give the land back to Indians=Mexicans. Won’t happen. Ditto Britain regarding muslims.
#55
Completely agree: except it appears that there won’t be anyone to rally around until the SHTF.
That event may merely be the stirrings of hyperinflation when the idiot liberal boomers finally realize that their O-boy and their causes celebre are all about the final destruction of their savings, and their retirements are going to be bupkis compared with their parents’. This would cause a final electoral defeat of the left and subsequent reordering.
Or the other extreme would be terrorist attack(s) with a lack of, or feckless response from the O-boy admin, causing any number of scenarios (check Habu) to be put in play.
What would be good is some plausible conservative leadership to come forward, NOW. I think Sarah Palin might be a good start. The way she riled up the elitists is probably just the ticket.
53 Robohobo
EVERY Israeli will say is ‘this country was founded on one thought – NEVER AGAIN.’ They will not go quietly into the long night, be sure of that.
I thought after 9/11, we as a nation also had that. NEVER AGAIN! Now if we ever were hit again, I see only one outcome. No matter who is in the WH, or the chosen response.
(1) President Obama (or his likes) chooses not to hit back militarily. Instead he/she is using soft power with UN and ‘prosecution at court (maybe even IC of Justice at Hague). Populace demand blood retribution and impeachment of our leaders instead.
(2) President Bush-like chooses to hit back immediately and hit them hard, the heck with building international consensus. Half (maybe more than half) of the country don’t want another war, saying “Been there, Done that”, and it did not ‘protect us’ from more harm.
Either way, we won’t have a UNITED states of our nation. So instead of prosecution of whoever responsible, we will have a roughly equally divided nation fighting amongst ourselves.
Is there other scenario?
I don’t see the populace screaming for blood, I see them screaming for consequences. As easy as it is to discuss the GPL option, we don’t have the nukes to do it. The biggest bang we ever had was the multi-megaton warhead on the Titan II, most of what we have now is in the hundreds of kilotons range and while you can certainly wreck cities the ability to depopulate an area just doesn’t exist.
The best we can do is destroy infrastructure and transportation links, and hope the societies collapse when central control and coordination is lost. Massive conventional bombing didn’t win in Vietnam, it slowed down the NVA some but if you have a bunch of folks who live on the calories we leave on our plates every day and crap in a pit then wiping out their access to satellite TV and stopping their non-existent Wal-Mart trucks from running won’t materially affect them. The fallout will get some, but the rest won’t “see the light” in the shadow of mushroom clouds. The truth is that Western and First World countries are much more vulnerable to those kinds of strikes than societies that live off the land and do so in a dispersed fashion, not out of design but out of poverty.
I doubt Obama has the stones to open The Football in any event. The playbook for a 9/11 response is the Clinton playbook — cruise missiles, some sexy video of an Aegis-class destroyer ripple-firing Tomahawks and the declaration of victory once something already useless is made fractionally more useless in a foreign land. If the Big O gets his way we’ll have a token force in Iraq and 70,000 landlocked soldiers in Afghanistan waiting for resupply trucks that aren’t going to come from the ports in Karachi. I have no doubt that they could pull off an anabasis that would make Xenophon proud, but popping nukes on Pakistan is not the answer.
And as for NahnCee’s description of Mexicans, they show up to work, work hard and with virtually no complaint. It’s a shame the ones that are here illegally are de facto criminals, we could use another segment of our population that is hard-working, family-oriented and stoic. We Texans actually live with Mexicans and while there are clearly bad actors in the Mexican national population and the government is corrupt, the fish does stink from the head first. I think that’s as unfair a generalization as any other. There’s a lot of people just doing their day-to-day thing trying to stay out of the line of fire down there.
As far as the Aztlan morons go and reclamation of former lands, molon labe. The border is a desert, and we like deserts. Long sight lines, good heat signatures at night and we have a better log train than anyone. Good luck with that.
#60 Darren
If I may beg to differ with your first paragraph; in the past I have done some work with “scenarios”. Nuclear weapons have a known set of effects. It is a matter of tailoring your attack modalities to optimize the effect you want against the carefully chosen target. Your preferred warhead yield would be in the range of the Hiroshima device.
It would take far less than the load out of a single OHIO-class submarine to remove any conceivable threat from the areas traditionally considered part of the Ummah for the foreseeable future. It could be done with a minimum of long term residual radiation, except in deliberately selected locales. Making the unproven assumption that the concept of “nuclear winter” was real, it would NOT be triggered. The net results would be more than pleasing to Mr. Jonathan Porritt; one of the Brit Labour Party’s leading lights noted in a previous thread, except the results would not impact the British population.
There are rumors extent that I am not a nice person.
I refer people to Wretchard’s prophetic “Three Conjectures”. If the American National Command Authority is responding rationally and in the interest of the United States, both postulates being open to question today, the means are easily at hand. A failure to employ them removes any questions. Something to consider after we lose one or more cities in the near future.
Subotai Bahadur