The main war aims of Hamas, according to the Christian Science Monitor, are to survive the Israeli incursions into Gaza and retain their control over the strip. In every asymmetric conflict of this type, the goal of terrorist organizations is to retain control of the population, not defeat the conventional forces of its enemy. The Monitor article briefly touches on the battle Hamas dares not lose: internal security.
For Hamas, survival might be victory. It will be lauded across the Arab world if it can hold out against the region’s strongest military. … “There may be a push to unseat its hold on Gaza,” says Nicolas Pelham, a regional analyst for the International Crisis Group. “It still appears to have retained authority and control in Gaza. There’s no internal forces seeking to challenge Hamas.”
But what are the war aims of Israel? The IDF is not saying, but recent experience in Iraq may help us to deduce them.
The Surge in Iraq demonstrated the decisive importance of prying loose the enemy’s grip from the population. Prior to the Surge, Coalition Forces could achieve temporary dominance over any given place only to lose it when they left. What eventually destroyed the various insurgencies as well as al-Qaeda in Iraq were two things: greater numbers and better tactics. It is not widely realized that most of those additional numbers came from generating Iraqi army, police and special forces units. The increases in American troop strength themselves were relatively modest. Generally speaking the tactical changes consisted of moving security forces from highly fortified but isolated bases and redeploying them into much smaller outposts within civilian areas. Petraeus and Odierno would demonstrate that greater safety could paradoxically be found by getting closer to the enemy to inflict defeat, rather than standing off and allowing a stalemate to continue. What do these ideas tell us about how Israel intends to win the internal security war against Hamas?
Let’s look at what is available to Israel. First, numbers. News reports suggest that up 20,000 men are being committed to the Gaza operation. That is a substantial number for the IDF, which has a total of about 125,000 personnel on active duty at any one time. In order to meet this commitment, reserves have to be called up. But because troops cannot indefinitely remain in combat, they must be rotated through the theater. The three-one rule of thumb means that 60,000 IDF troops — a number equal to half the active duty force — will be needed to support a sustained presence in Gaza.
Now let’s look at what time Israel has. During the 2006 war in Lebanon, Israeli political leadership gave itself a window of only “a few weeks” to achieve its goals, according to an article in Infantry before the UN imposed a “ceasefire” with Hezbollah. While Israel has refused to put an explicit time limit on its operations against Hamas it’s better than even odds that they are working against the clock, just as in Lebanon. The political drumbeat to force a “ceasefire” is in high gear as this video from Suitably Flip, taken a short distance from UN headquarters, shows.
Finally, let’s look at what kind of partners Israel can rely upon in the internal security fight against Hamas. The rebuilt Iraqi Security Forces have a strength of 250,000 men; are subject to regular military discipline and have been trained by the United States. They are currently taking the operational lead in many areas in Iraq, allowing the US to take a supporting role. In contrast, Israel’s Palestinian allies are a comparative rabble, and one wonders how effective they will be in countering Hamas.
The success of the Surge was based on a foundation, and Israel may lack the depth in numbers, time and indigenous force generation it needs to win against a terrorist foe and stabilize Gaza. Since the IDF can only achieve what is possible, perhaps the Israeli aim in Gaza is simply to ‘do whatever it can’ simply because there is no way to ‘do what it needs to’. While tactics are important, they are only the handmaiden of strategy. In a very fundamental way, Hamas — or some other similar type of group — will probably survive because its survival has been guaranteed by political restrictions too deeply rooted to be easily overthrown.
If Hamas ‘wins’ it will be no thanks to its skill or savvy. They are the quota terrorist group, the mandated token bomber. It is the quota and not their AK-47s or yells that they have to thank for their lives. If the IDF fails to win the internal security battle against Hamas, that failure will have been almost pre-ordained by political restrictions. What of the ordinary Palestinian civilian consigned to clutches of a succession of terror groups? He’s the extra in a drama that was never written for his benefit.
Your arguments presuppose that Israel puts a higher value on avoiding civilian casualties and currying favor with international opinion than it does on defeating the enemy.
We have forgotten that winning a war is the only effective Peace Process. Here is why we have had Peace with Japan for more than 60 years and why to this day Japan remains reluctant to have even the appearance of intervention or aggression against other countries:
“The Japanese began the war from the air at Pearl Harbor. They have been repaid many fold.”
(“Public Papers of the Presidents: Harry S Truman, 1945″, pg. 197).
On Aug. 9, after Nagasaki was a-bombed, Truman made another public statement on why the atomic bombs were used:
“Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans.”
(“Public Papers of the Presidents: Harry S Truman, 1945″, pg. 212).
It appears that Japan learned, and Hamas could learn to follow international laws of warfare.
Re.: “Hamas could learn “.
Hamas is a tool. As such it is irrelevant whether it learns anything. If they “learn” and stop throwing dead cats over the fence, the financing will be redirected to something other that will.
So, you’re saying that after having ostentatiously left Gaza to the inmates some years ago, Israel is going to go back into Gaza and live among those blood-thirsty lunatics in order to teach them how to be better human beings and soldiers — have a Palestinian Awakening — and defeat Hamas? In a period of three weeks or so?
I’m confused. This does not compute — equating the American surge strategy in Iraq to the current Israeli foray into Gaza. Am I overlooking something?
Hamas wants to or needs to count coup to declare victory. They have been making threats from Damascus and Gaza in the last week about what they would do to Israeli soldiers if Israel proceeded with a ground assault. Hamas needs to kill numbers of Israeli soldiers. They need to destroy some tanks. They would love to capture some soldiers and hold them, like their recent threat to capture a female soldier so she and Shalit could start a family.
Up until now, about 24 hours into the ground assault, nothing like this has been reported. One soldier is reported killed, due to a mortar attack, and a few dozen reported wounded. Israel reports a few dozen terrorists killed. Israel says that the resistance is less than expected. There have been no reports of massive land mines or use of anti-tank missiles. However, Hamas is reported to be fighting from fortifications in the North.
Curiously it seems that Israel’s forces are only or mostly in northern Gaza. One might expect them to try to secure the Philadelphi corridor. Possible reasons for this are that they want to concentrate their forces and work from the North of Gaza towards the south. They didn’t call up large numbers of reserves until the ground assault started so maybe they didn’t have enough forces to invade the entire strip at once. Also, they might want to push civilians southward in order to clear the battlefield of civilians. Reports say that Israel hasn’t entered built up areas. Apparently Hamas is expecting to make a stand in Gaza city and Israel hasn’t entered Gaza city as of yet.
In the end the terrorists may win by not losing but if Israel does get a long period of complete quiet afterwards they may call that a victory. Also, Gaza has become a zero-sum game for Hamas and Fatah. It’s within the realm of possibility the Fatah will fill the vacuum afterwards.
Wretchard:
Well written and argued, as usual. And, I agree that given the strategic situation, a surge-type counterinsurgency simply cannot be successful. Which means, once Israel withdraws, that Hamas can claim victory and go back to firing 5,000+ rockets a year at Israeli homes, kindergartens, etc; an activity that obviously has the wholehearted support of all those currently criticizing Israel.
So, given that Israel cannot win a counterinsurgency and also given that her enemies cannot hate her more than they already do, why not change strategies? Instead of trying to seperate Hamas from the population that willingly voted for them, why not try to eliminate the ability of Hamas to wage war? In short, why should Israel not do to Hamas what the Russians did to Grozny and the Chechens? That counter-terror strategy also worked and it worked without the necessity of a surge.
“main war aims of Hamas, according to the Christian Science Monitor,…”
How the mighty have fallen. I didn’t think the CSM would ever fail to deal with the truth.
The truth is, Hamas has said over and over and over again, its aim is the erasure of Israel from the map of the world.
It IS as simple of that.
Israel used to have as an aim the prevention of that, but the holy world opinion seems to be hurting Israel, probably by the death of a thousand cuts.
I am starting to lose respect for Israel. They pen these Palestinians up in Gaza, then feign surprise that they are hated. Then, they keep pinpricking them. I don’t really believe that this is about ‘Hamas’–the Israelis need to either treat the Palestinians decently, wipe them out, or deport them. This constant skirmishing is just dumb.
programmer muses:
What if Israel disregards world opinion? If the UN (and others) don’t have the cojones to stand up to ragtag terrorist groups (pirates for example), what does it mean for Israel if they pay no attention to the world? Perhaps the dreaded “strongly worded memo”? In a sense, Israel has always played the “victim” card itself. The old “We have been treated shabbily, but as a civilized nation, we will take our lumps and play by the book, even if it is painful” gambit. Maybe its time for Israel to step up to “You screw with the bull, you get the horns” status.
’m confused. This does not compute — equating the American surge strategy in Iraq to the current Israeli foray into Gaza. Am I overlooking something?
You certainly are. In fact, you’re starting from disingenuous and moving to stuck on (_______) adjective of choice. Wretchard wasn’t ‘equating’ the surge with the Israeli incursion – he very clearly showed the differences. Your use of ‘equating’ may be a holdover from some previous warped form of moral equivalence, but it’s wholly wrong here.
The “surge” troops will be provided by Hamas, with help from the “International Community”.
So it’s not a bad strategy. Cause enough damage to Hamas and (unfortunately) Palestinians such that the International Community becomes a prisinor of its own rhetoric, forces Hamas to stop the rocket fire, polices the border, cleans up children’s TV.
Don’t forget, Arabs need a Saviour. The Israeli strategy is to get one for them.
ADE
It occurs to me that HAMAS may just fade into the population. Let the Israelis come in and stay a while. Maybe do some street theater or a couple suiciders or IED’s. Low cost to HAMAS. Int’l pressure sends the IDF home; status quo ante.
Then what? Maybe what the Israelis need is a really good and fast counterbattery system that returns lots of fire on detection. But that would be messy and there’d be a lot of pics of poor Palis shot up by the evil Jooos and Cynthia McKinney giving aid.
(I had hoped when she moved to Calif we’d seen the last of her. One of the resentments of my life is that she used to be the congresscritter from my district.)
Alex #5 – I dont think the IDF or their masters have the stomach for Grozny south. I dont think any civilized country does.
The issue of the after withdrawal raises a question: What is the endgame for this? It cant go on forever. Something’s got to give. The Palis have to give up their faith in the destruction of Israel or the Israelis have to give up on life. All of the diplomats in the world involved in an infinite series of summits cant solve this. A lot of people are going to die, I’m afraid for this to be solved, if it ever is solved.
At some time in the pre-Hamas period the Palestinian Authority published a weekly police blotter of major crimes in Gaza along with a brief family biography of the victims and possible motivation.
The number of murders, multiple murders particularly, seemed staggeringly high for such a small population. Time after time the murders were described as clan revenge for previous murders with both the clan of the supposed perpetrators and the clan of the victims plainly named.
Isreal would be well served to provide unlimited money, arms, and material support to any non-Hamas clan capable of taking down Hamas. Whether any such clan exists is not known. Hamas has not been squeamish about liquidating potential rivals. All in the name of Allah, of course.
Gaza is a cesspool of the worst of humanity. Dante would have had to create a new ring.
There are some differences between Gaza and Iraq. The main one is that AQ in Iraq was mostly foreigners who killed a lot of locals to control them. In Gaza Hamas is comprised of indigenous people, although they are easily seen as Iranian puppets and they do kill locals some.
I think that the key to an Israeli surge would be humiliation of Hamas. Killing a lot of Hamas fighters will help. Capturing a lot of them would be even better. Capturing one of the Hamas leadership and imprisoning him in Israel would help. The locals can be induced to spit on Hamas if Hamas are seen not to be good fighters. I think that part of the reason for the rocket fire on Israel is to taunt Israel and prove that Isreal’s might can’t control them. It’s one of their ways of counting coup.
The people of Gaza and Hamas supporters everywhere, possibly even in Syria and Iran, would give up support if Hamas is seen to be weak or ineffective against Israel. Hamas can use whatever tactics it chooses and doesn’t have to beat Israel on the battlefield, in any object fashion, but they must be viewed as hurting Israel. Unless they can do that they might be finished.
Israel has most certainly stated their aims. Or perhaps better put what their goals are *not*…. and they have stated they do not intend to reoccupy Gaza.
The Palestinian Authority is standing by, ready to reassume rightful control over Gaza as the only recognized representative of Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas is not “the government”. They are a majority party in the PA, but not the entire PA. They are the absolute rule in Gaza as the result of their civil war with Fatah in 2007, staging a coup seizing Gaza by force.
This is all rather interesting, since Hamas would not have any political authority at all but for the Oslo Accords and ensuing agreements. Yet they call honoring any of the Accords “treasonous”. They are the main stumbling block between Israel and PA achieving any kind of peace agreement.
In fact, Hamas is now launching another civil war against PA Fatah members in Gaza.
So Israell’s quest is to weaken Hamas, let the PA take over, and try to return the ceasefire and peace process back to a do’able point.
Perhaps they are seeking such a clan? Or a force. Perhaps over the course of a year or so Israel believes they can sufficiently prop up a counter to Hamas, a counter to Fatah and a counter to all the garbage that the Arab world feeds to the Pale’s?
I suppose stranger things have happened. I would certainly cheer on such a long shot if ever it were identified. Alas instead of a surge, I think we will be stuck with the scourge.
The surge in Iraq benefitted greatly from the prior long standoff; which gave the Iraqi population time to get really tired of being blown up by sh*theads.
Once the surge then made it safe to turn the bad guys in, the population started turning them in.
Hamas’s stated goal is to remove, by violent means, the Israelis from Israel.
They have chosen to use at this time rockets. Israel has chosen to stop the Gazans from launching rockets at them rather than to rid Israel of Gazans. I do not expect the Israelis to leave until they are assured by the international community that a force is in place to insure that there will be no more rockets from Gaza. This is what they did in Lebanon with Hezbollah. Note that it has been two years now and not a peep not a Katusha from Hezbollah even when their buddies in Gaza are being bloodied. I believe they will continue killing the Gaza fighters and that they will aid the PA folks and that the PA will take back Gaza. As they have said it will be a long war.
Israel has intelligent disciplined people. They have their share of arrogant egotistical politicians and generals. That was Lebanon 2006.
This time they picked the battleground,the time,the date,the enemy,and the enemy by proxy. I assume that they know level of cynicism that lurks deep in the hearts of the puppet masters that roll the dice made from the bones of the dead. There is no possible way that they can allow Hamas to have a victory of any sort.
If Israel does allow Hamas to claim even a token honorable hero then the Israelis may as well go back to wherever it is they came from and await the next Holocaust.
This time it must be clear to all who the winners and losers are. It is that simple. It is that necessary.
“This is the dead land
This is the cactus land
Here the stone images
are raised,here they receive
The supplication of a dead man’s hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.”
T.S. Elliot- The Hallow Men
Considering that Israel’s nuclear facility at Dimona is a potential
target for rockets from Gaza:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5430133.ece
Can the Israeli’s allow the status quo to re-assert itself once the
Iseaeli army pulls out?
Once the terrorist “weeds” are pulled, how do you keep them from growing
back? Especially with all the money and other support the other states
in the region are prepared to use as fertilizer for a new batch of
weeds to replace the ones that the Israelis are pulling.
The jews will fold, like they always do, and western liberals will cry and knash their teeth, and western “conservatives”, afraid of being called mean, will cave right along with them.
There needs to be total war and total victory.
One Hiz rock was rumored to have been defused by UNIFIL, (See John Batchelor Show.)
Acording to Martin Kramer the goal of Israel is a total cease-fire that also leaves the sanctions against Hamas in place. As I don’t see any other realistic or achievable goal, I am guessing this is the objective of the incursion.
BIGGER DIGGLER – I must say, that’s the best analysis of the situation I have ever seen. Were that it be so !
Anything short of driving the Palis out of the Gaza Strip and then annexing the Strip will just insure that this impossible situation: Palis to the east, Palis to the south and west, will continue.
Rest assured, Israel will NOT do what has to be done, insuring that its untenable position will remain.
Of course, the initial mistake was not to insist that Egypt annex Gaza as part of the Sinai agreements. That said, anything short of total elimination of the rocket attacks from Gaza should be counted as a strategic failure for Israel.
Whether Fatah would be a true party for negotiation after Hamas were eliminated is another question. Right now they seem more reasonable only by comparison.
When, if ever, will the West hold citizens responsible for their hospitality toward terrorists? When, if ever, will we say that a people who choses to destroy Greenhouses they were freely given, just because it had Jewish cooties, has willed its own misery and poverty? When will we say that if you vote to give control to the terrorists, we will not pity you for the results you chose?
The long-term political success of Iraq has yet to be written. So while the Surge has absolutely helped to establish the conditions for a fledgling government to grow, there was a fledgling government first.
I’m not sure how anyone could know what/who would take over in a vacuum created by the total destruction of Hamas. That being said, if they don’t wish to achieve *something* on the political front, it’s hard for me to see what they wish to accomplish. I can’t believe that gains in self-defense would be more than temporary.
I’m hoping that the strategy is more than collective punishment combined with humiliation of the political party that got them into this mess to start with, mainly because I don’t believe that strategy would succeed.
The news reports indicate that the IDF has cut Gaza City off from the rest of the Gaza strip. Is the IDF strategy to conduct a Fallujah-type operation, i.e, seal one city, offer civilians (with documentation) refuge and exit and then cleanse what’s left?
Sorry, late to the game here.. It sounds like Caroline Glick disagrees that this is being done to win….
If Caroline Glick’s premise is correct, as Nahncee would say – “the Yurps” are the key to the sign of failure.
Weak politics make for poor war-fellows…
Sean: What kind of “decent” treatment do you think would convince Hamas — a terror group hellbent on annihilating seven million Jews — to behave in anything like a civil manner? When a man is trying to break into your house and screaming at the top of his lungs, “I will kill you!” is treating him decently the best way to defend yourself? What Israel needs to do here is what the US did at Fallujah. Empty Gaza City of civilians, then go kill a few thousand Hamas fighters. It will be ugly and costly, just as Fallujah was. The World will not like it. But Hamas will never attempt to face off Israel again when it’s over.
OMG- from Caroline Glick- Thanks DanM:
“George Orwell once quipped, “The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.”
Since Tuesday it has become clear that the Olmert-Livni-Barak government has decided to end the war with Iran’s Hamas proxy army in Gaza as quickly as possible. That is, the government has decided to lose the war.”
The Olmert -Livni-Barak government is negotiating with Hamas- apparently agreeing to all Hamas’s demands, and only negotiating as to which peace keepers will come in. (According to Glick)
They are only looking for a face saving way out.
Just when I thought the Israeli’s were getting tough, they go ahead and do this. How could any sane person think you could negotiate with Hamas? i hope this report is totally untrue.
Israel’s military is predicting a “long” struggle in Gaza.
Obama has said nothing in support of Israel, has played mostly Golf, and has a long history of hatred for Israel throughout his life starting from indoctrination of hatred of Jews in Jakarta as he was raised a Muslim (in an atmosphere reminiscent of the Hitler Jugend) and proceeding to himself and Michelle Obama as a matter of record attending a party for PLO terrorist Rashid Khalidi (in which a tape shows according to those who claim to have seen it, Obama and Michelle applauding anti-Semitic remarks by speakers and offering their own).
The LAT has as a matter of record refused to release the tape, and it has a copy. So it’s clear that the claims are credible.
Israel may indeed be working on it’s own clock, given that they have NO INCENTIVE to moderate with a President Obama. Who would eagerly cooperate with Iran to “wipe them off the map” in exchange for a really big speech in Tehran.
Israel’s clock may be large, years long, and their objective not a “Surge” of creation of alternative forces but rather kicking all the Gazans out to Lebanon or Egypt where they are someone else’s problem, as an object lesson for the West Bank.
If Israel is on it’s own, and Obama suggests that it is indeed entirely alone, there is no reason in the world to be “moderate.” There is every reason to be desperate and tough.
Since Cast Lead began, I have been wondering what Israel’s end-game. They want a fight to the finish with Hamas? Fine. But they also have no intention to re-occupy Gaza for the long-term. So who or what stabilizes Gaza to make sure no more rockets fall in southern Israel?
As others have been said, a Surge-like solution is not possible here. So my guess is that Israel just wants to bag (or body-bag) as many Hamas leaders as they can, destroy as many rocket sites as they can, net as much intelligence as they can, and if possible, leave Hamas vulnerable to a Fatah counterstroke. Stabilization in this case may mean giving Abbas’ hard boys the chance to exact revenge, and maybe even finish off Hamas.
DougS:
The declared end-game has been well-publicized:
* Stop rockets
* Prevent re-armament (read: stop the tunnel-smuggling)
* Prevent acts of terror (read: if Hamas starts planning suicide bombings, they get a visit)
* Monitoring by international force (presumably with covert Israeli participation, e.g. through cameras)
The point re: Hamas’ internal security isn’t an “end-game” so much as a means of managing the problem. I’m not at all sure it is in Israel’s interests to topple Hamas. Remember – a ruling group loses support if it doesn’t provide services. Before becoming the government, Hamas got “points” for anything it did in the way of social welfare; now, it loses points for every need it doesn’t take care of.
Leaving a weakened Hamas in power would make sense for Israel. And the weakening is only partly achievable by force. The rest of the work is socio-economic – choking off Hamas’ resources, crippling their ability to manage Gaza (bombing the government buildings and destroying the filing cabinets/databases with info on taxes, salaries, etc. – brilliant; the follow-through is with additional spanners in the gears), and tying the social power structures (i.e. the important tribes) to Fatah rather than Hamas.
John Bolton makes a good argument for dumping the current peace process altogether and moving to a three-state solution (Israel, Egypt and Jordan)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/04/AR2009010401434.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
From what I have been reading recently Hamas was moving ahead in its efforts to turn Gaza into an Islamic ruled state in the Taliban mold. If so,the Isralis might well have been better off waiting for the terror to take effect.
Having said this, I understand why the Israelis moved when they did.
Worth a watch:
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/
Worth a read:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2007/10/message-to-peaceful-muslims.html
Michael Gray has it about right. The minimum for Israel is to stop or nearly stop the rockets and the importing of rockets.
Longer term, replace Hamas with somebody dedicated to the 2-state solution. Somebody like the PA.
The central fulcrum here is the 2-state solution. Hamas is standing in the way and the world needs them eliminated so the 2-state solution can go forward.
Now the 2-state solution might be a poor idea (who will replace Abbas? What keeps Syria out of Palestine?) but that’s the goal.
Another great article over at The Weekly Standard “Gaza Is Not Lebanon”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/975wlwfj.asp
While everything the author says may be true, I still think a ground assault is past the point of diminishing returns for Israel. Hope I’m wrong.
Rod Blagojevich is a godsend for the Israeli Defense Forces. Why? When Rod Blagojevich nominated Roland Burris to fill Illinois’s U.S. Senate seat, he knocked the bloody pictures in Gaza off the front pages; Gaza is no longer the lead story in the evening news for the American mainstream media. That’s great.
The less media attention that gets put onto Gaza, the better. Moreover, the media need to keep at least a pretense of balance rather than focusing on Gaza all the time. For every report from the Gaza Strip, there should be at least one report from Sderot, Ashkelon, or Ashdod. Let’s not assume that screaming Palestinians are the only people in the entire universe who just happen to suffer.
IDF goes in, makes some rubble, kills a bunch of Hamas fighters, destroys a bunch of Hamas supplies, slows the rocket attacks significantly for a while and it recycles all over again in another 5 years. Hamas is too smart to keep on engaging amidst the rubble, house by house, they will stop shooting and live to shoot another day.
Over the long term, do such tactical changes have any genuine significance? At best, all we’ve done is temporarily lift the Muslims from their sewer of Islam, their vile anti-human belief system which cheapens, degrades, and defiles all it touches. Through our expenditures in precious life and treasure, the Muslims have been handed a golden opportunity to prove they aren’t complete barbarians — but to no avail — they will remain Muslim in Afghanistan — they will remain Muslim in Iraq — they will remain Muslim in Gaza and the West Bank, and they will remain Muslim as long as we attack the symptoms of Islam, but leave the kernel of Islam alive and thriving as we have done.
As a symbol of our failure to grasp the matter forthrightly, we currently can be seen rebuilding (with US tax dollars!) the Muslim’s disgusting mosques after they’ve utilized them as weapons caches, recruiting offices for terrorists, and bastions of incitement and hatred. Are we out of our minds?
As long as those terror spewing hatred wallowing Islamic societies are allowed to remain Muslim, the nightmares which Islam unleashes on the world will perpetuate and thrive. The magical (and extremely costly) charms of civilization which we have bestowed on these slavish adherents to Islam will surely expire as soon as we leave the ball at midnight — or as soon as we stop pouring staggering aid dollars and precious blood into their maw to prop up their irredeemable society.