There was a time, not long ago, when I viewed the French as arrogant Arab-lovers whose leaders chose to protect Yasir Arafat’s wealth and reputation, a people which sought to expunge their record as brutal colonizers and to continue their work as Holocaust collaborators by joining the jihad against the Jewish state.
As a lover of French literature (my college dissertation was on Stendhal) I was nevertheless clear that France was no longer the capital for expatriate artists and revolutionaries in search of each other. I could never embrace France as a place of refuge or exile.
But now, France under Sarkozy is becoming attractive once more. This President has stood up for the rights of democracy, both in France and in Iran. He believes that human and individual rights apply to all French women, including Muslim women. He does not see immigrant and/or Muslim women as a separate or subordinate species. Sarkozy understands that woman’s equality is the bottom line issue in terms of assimilation and integration.
President Sarkozy is absolutely right. Based on my own research, it is clear that when those Muslim women who wish to assimilate or modernize actually do so– they are often shamed, persecuted, and even murdered by their own families, by their religious leaders, and by those western leftists who argue for “multi-cultural relativism.”
Today, the French government has announced that immigrants (all and any immigrants) who wish to settle in France must make a commitment to “integrate.” This means that new citizens must agree to give up polygamy, forced marriage, the Veil, and female genital mutilation; such practices are forbidden. According to Nadine Morano, the French Secretary of State for Family: “Equality between men and women is a fundamental principle of French society.”
According to the French Prime Minister, Francois Fillon, a French “national identity” must be understood and embraced by all. To accomplish that, Fillon said “that French schools will now be ordered to fly the French flag and to have a copy of the 1789 Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen in every classroom.” Young French citizens will have to “speak better French, know more about the values of the republic,” and engage in certain (undefined) ceremonies.
What will be most stressed is the importance of equality between men and women.
These plans are being mocked and scorned by French socialists and certain academics who view them as inflammatory, culturally insensitive, subject to challenge in European Union courts, etc.
As a thousand Norwegian-Muslim taxi drivers a day continue to demonstrate against the Mohammed cartoons; as the mad Dutch judges continue to try the heroic parliamentarian Geert Wilders in a case that is stacked against him; as the Danish government employs a prison imam who guides husbands on wife-beating; as the leftists and Muslims of Malmo continue to persecute the small number of Jews in Malmo, I say: Vive La France!
And, may America soon follow its example.
France is a complicated country with a zigzagging history. Orthodox Jews in France are often afraid to wear yamulkes on the street. Americans reccognize that assimilation is simultaneously inevitable and impossible. Americans generally appreciate the variety of cultures found here. In France, there is greater pressure to achieve uniformity and erase differences. This is good in some ways and bad in others.
Allowing large no-go Muslim ghettos to spring up in the suburbs doesn’t seem like “pressure to achieve uniformity”. Allowing thousands of cars to be burned is, to say the least, laissez-faire. Isn’t it an oxymoron to say assimilation is both inevitable and impossible, George?
What made Chirac love Iraq? Perhaps it was the rhyming names or the love of filthy bribes and kickbacks while betraying UN sanctions, using that same institution’s Oil-For-Food program.
Viva Sarkozy!
With 4 to 6 million muslims (no one knows the exact number) and hundreds of No Go Zones, integration will be a daunting task. Friday prayers now block trafic in several Parisian streets as Muslim spread their carpets on the pavement. The remaining natives live in fear and sign petitions. Methings the government began cracking down too late. Good luck though.
DrBukk,
I love oxymoroms. They can’t be true, but they are.
There was a time, not long ago, when I viewed the French as arrogant Arab-lovers whose leaders chose to protect Yasir Arafat’s wealth and reputation,
uh, Camp David, not a french enterprise !
But of course Chirac was seen as a hero by Palestinians
since this video
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr1jw_chirac-d-arabie-à-jérusalem_news
also about holocaust,70% to 75 % of the french Jews survived it, while in other european occupied countries, 95 % were exterminated, you want sources ?
Also, the persons that nowadays are among the persons who support the most the muslims are the french leftist Jews !
a previous exemple : Gerard Miller, not counting the journalists
and the pro-Palestinians manifestants !
I wonder from where you hold your sources, these are mere anti-French propagandas, sure, useful during the last Irak war, guess the eagles that were lauchching the surrendermonkeys hoaxes were american Jews, so it make me wonder, is there a concurrence between the Jews ?
6. Marie Claude:
[also about holocaust,70% to 75 % of the french Jews survived it, while in other European occupied countries, 95 % were exterminated, you want sources?]
Wait a minute ma cherie. The French record on the Jewish holocaust sucks. Let’s be honest. French Jews, yes, they were often protected, but all those who had emigrated from other countries, some of them long standing citizens were thrown to the wolfs, and with gusto. From Drancy about 65,000 were deported, 63,000 of which were killed. They also deported Roma (gypsies).
Cooperation with SS captains Theodor Dannecker and Alois Brunner, and even Klaus Barbie in Lyon, in anti-Jewish measures, ran deep within the French police.
The fact is, the French authorities could have opposed Hitler firmly, but did not, as antisemitism ran deep within some sectors of French society.
Window dressing by the ruling elites.
Sarkozy is a tremendous disappointment and in no way “right wing”. He is, like all in his bankrupt administration, a hopeless Socialist utopian, who believes Arabic is the language of the future and the individual citizen has no right to defend himself in his own home with a weapon against intruders.
The 780 ‘no-go zones’ are not going away, no matter how much money they throw at it, because Islam is there to dominate, not to be dominated.
The daily carbeques (80-100 cars) are no longer mentioned in the news, citizen journalists can be arrested when they film or photograph the behavior of the Arab ‘youths’ who are for the most part not really that young, but unemployable.
‘Integration” is a pipe dream, it won’t happen. Tariq Ramadan and the imams of EUrabia have already declared that they will integrate the EUro-dhimmies into Islam, not the other way around. I guess that’s what they actually mean when they call him a “reformer”.
(sarc/off)
6. Marie Claude:
[also about holocaust,70% to 75 % of the french Jews survived it, while in other European occupied countries, 95 % were exterminated, you want sources?]
Wait a minute ma cherie. The French record on the Jewish holocaust sucks. Let’s be honest. French Jews, yes, they were often protected, but all those who had emigrated from other countries, some of them long standing citizens were thrown to the wolfs, and with gusto. From Drancy about 65,000 were deported, 63,000 of which were killed. They also deported Roma (gypsies).
Cooperation with SS captains Theodor Dannecker and Alois Brunner, and even Klaus Barbie in Lyon, in anti-Jewish measures, ran deep within the French police.
The fact is, the French authorities could have opposed Hitler more firmly, but did not, as antisemitism ran deep within many sectors of French society.
I am glad the French are doing this. I have held three citizenships in my life so far–English, Canadian and now American. (I still have dual citizenship as a Brit.) The first two statuses were by birth and by way of my dad being Canadian, and our family living in Canada.
I immigrated to the U.S. when I was eighteen. Pretty well immediately began learning the ropes of my newly adopted country; economic and financial, legal, political (had to learn the American system), religions (yes, there are differences between Canadian and American churches), and social customs and the culture. Luckily, English is my native language.
But our family of five, including two brothers did this. One brother got drafted into the Army, and served his time, despite being a conscientious objector to the Vietnam was.
I also lived in an unusual town in Northern B.C. which was packed full of immigrants from all over Europe (post WW II). Everyone worked hard to integrate, including learning English. We held to some customs at home, namely favorite foods and homestyle furniture and decorations, native language newspapers etc. And many immigrants were homesick.
But in our schools and the town’s main factory, people integrated for the most part.
Islam is a horse of a different color. It is such an isolationist religion, so divisive. (Sort of like Sarah Palin!) And it so clearly separates its women from the mainstream of life, and puts such restrictive rules on them. Add to that, 2nd class status, and it’s a powder keg. I cannot pretend when I see a fully veiled woman, or one who has been genitally mutilated, etc that she truly believes that she is living a full,rich life like all the other-say-French citizens.
I read something in this column a couple of days ago that Muslim women actually consider themselves superior to Western women! I would sure like to know more about that idea!
And who might have told them that? Surely not their religion! I believe all people are equal in the eyes of God, Allah, Jehovah, the Great Spirit, all those Indian Shakti’s and Shiva’s etc etc. Even if I’ve got the names wrong, you get the drift.
Hurrah for France!
Women are equal in France?
Then how is it, that they still need official permission to wear pants in Paris?
France is totally beyond repair in this regard, unless drastic measures are employed, which they will not employ. It is verily too late for window-dressing.
Phyllis’ euphoria on this is an overreaction. Of course, something must be produced for Pajamas, you know.
8. sheik yer’mami is right on the money!
The King of Bling Bling, that clown of a president, together with the Quai d’Orsay, are defeatists, and do not have neither the will nor the guts to do what it takes. They are not alone, it is happening all over Europe, it is that in France the Islamization has been going on longer, something that started in Spain, for example, only a few years ago (and accelerated under the coward Mr. Shoemaker – Zapatero el Maricon).
The number of Islamic enclaves (Paris number one), the dissatisfied Muslim youth engaged often in a real Intifada, that can’t feel French and often do not get citizenship even when they are born there if they travel out before the age of 15, the effeminate, stunted, and cowardly French masses, all collude for a road to no good.
3. Eva, Canada, she is also right on the money.
Many people think about it, but few say it. The fact is, the way things are going in Europe, we may need a Hitler-like politician/era to deal with the Muslim scum.
Look at cancer. It grows to a point where only violence will destroy it (chemo or radiation, at the peril of the host, by the way).
Look at it like this, it will be they or you. Either they, or they will impose the Sharia Law on you. As for me, I prefer Seppuku to Sharia.
All this window-dressing BS is just pathetic. If you invite someone to your house, as your host, and that person wants to take over and rule you, meaning no good, no respect, what do you do? Do you get on your 4 like the majority of Europe is doing? I don’t think so.
sheik yer’mami
I don’t care if sarkozy isn’t a right wing, besides how high is the percentage of rightwingers in UK, in US… les than 10%, so you can’t govern a country with such a low representation,and I beg your perdon, at this day UK is in a worst economical posture as France, just after the PIIGS, while with Germany France is still considered as the pillar of EU
who believes Arabic is the language of the future and the individual citizen has no right to defend himself in his own home with a weapon against intruders.
yeah, and your sister she speack Aramean ! IF you’d a better perceiption of Sarkozy’s personality, you would know that he was saying that in a discourse to the Arab house of Paris, and it was mere political diplomacy, besides arab language is already taught in quite a few high schools, since a few decades !
Does UK has this right ? (I believe you’re in UK, according to your site, does that explain your acrimony towards the French ?) BTW my father had rifles, like anyones who hunt here !
The daily carbeques (80-100 cars)
again et ta soeur, elle bat le beur ?
these are reserved exceptionally for special fests, some have fireworks for the sky, while the poors make them on the ground, but again comparatively to the Londonistan, our surburbs don’t host AQ jihadists, and contrary to UK they are hunted here, and some found some retreat into UK, that your nice government didn’t want to release us… until the London bombing !
citizen journalists can be arrested when they film or photograph the behavior of the Arab ‘youths’ who are for the most part not really that young, but unemployable.
et ta soeur elle trotte
give me your source ,BTW I can get all the films I want from the net, and put them into the muslims propagantists sites, until now none threaten me of arrestation
you’re the only one to call Tarik Ramadan a “reformer”, all the muslims I know hold him as a joke !
so watch your back intead of puking on your neighbours, oh yes I know, we are eternal enemies !
Bon MiamaMan, you can argue whatever you want, numbers still are facts
french authoritées were under Gestapo control, and tell me why Holland authorities didn’t oppose Hitler too, where 95 % of the Jews perished ?, so either it’s because the population were more colloaborationist, either their police was more effective !
Easy to talk when you were not living here !
gus3, you’re referring to an old ordonance that isn’t still abolished, but that none cares anymore
“La loi du 26 Brumaire an IX de la République dispose que toute +femme désirant s’habiller en homme doit se présenter à la Préfecture de police pour en obtenir l’autorisation, et celle ci ne peut être donnée qu’au vu d’un certificat d’un officier de santé+”, explique M. Hugon dans sa lettre. Deux circulaires de 1892 et 1909 autorisent le port féminin du pantalon à vélo puis à cheval, précise-t-il.”
MiaMan, it’s you that is beyond repair
and do not have neither the will nor the guts to do what it takes.
France is still the only country that makes more difficult the application of shariah, communautarism ain’t our society product, but your’s, and the lessons givers’, the Brits !
and escuse me, Hitler was the muslims’ friend !
Well, it looks like folks have chosen sides and taken a stand on their basic values.
I basically like Sarkozy. But occasionally I simply don’t get what he’s doing.
This business about assimilation into French culture makes perfectly good sense — burka ban and all.
But allowing the no-go zones to continue to exist is outrageous and utterly bizarre.
I’m disinclined to assume the worst about Sarkozy himself. But that said, it makes no sense, I don’t get it.
I wonder how deeply infiltrated the French gov’t is by stealth jihaddis and jihaddi agents.
I am french and feminist, and I am really not so optimist as you Phyllis Chesler,
France is far from being a country that recognize the problem of islam and the problem of the veil.
It is a country where last year, a woman, who had a guesthouse, was condemned to JAIL, for having refuse to let a woman client wear a long veil in the common parts of the guesthouse : she was condemned to several month of jail and more than 8000 € of fine and damage.
That is french “justice” !
The french governement let build one mosq and islamic “cultural” centers, per week in France , many with public money …
So why this announce of the refusal to give nationality to a woman wearing burka ? Because in several weeks there will be elections in France and Sarkozy wants to appear less pro-islam than the left : that is all.
Sarkozy approoves “positiv discrimination”, he approoves the building of mosqs, he is treathening those who critisize islam !!
(About several Comments):
. it seems that there already been some Integration’s Problems into the Republic, at the Time of Napoleon, but the Problem was related to Jewish Community;
. according to what’s mentioned in Wikipedia, Nazis headed a Group meant to defeat Capitalism and Communism (…).
I’m anyway almost sure that many Countries of the Old Continent didn’t really oppose Nazis for Fear of their aggressive Reaction – in Case of Opposition -;
. even handicapped People were persecuted by Nazis, not just Jews – Nazis Mentality was about the purity of the Race (…);
. many Islamic people flew to France from Former France Colony, therefore they’ve at first been very wellcome – now they’re simply incredibly increasing in Number and trying to destroy anything which belongs to the Republic;
. sort of National Dish of France is so called “Jambonbeurre” and Wine: the former is bread and Pig Meat, the latter you know; Islamic Rules forbid the one and the other – a(nother) Symbol of National/Cultural Identity is disappearing
(therefore I understand those French people who just say – when it comes to Islamic Immigration – “enough is enough”);
. hasn’t Sarkozy Jewish Roots? He has been an Immigrant too (his Family way): I think he know what does it mean to immigrate and to try and integrate (respecting respectable local Habits) – he even became President of the Immigration Country!
His Policy about Identity’s Symbols (Burka) is therefore reliable;
. that Islamic people consider Tarik Ramadan a Jocke, it is doubtful. He represent the Muslim Brotherood (aka Islamic Mafia) in the Old Continent – should we laugh at it?
Tarik Ramadan (and his Brother Hani too) had to be challenged and opposed: up to now the rare ones who did it are a French Woman, Caroline Fourest, and a Turkish-German Woman, Nekla Kelek, as well as some Critics of Islam-ism, like (Egyptian-Italian) Magdi Cristiano Allam.
. There is a huge Discussion around the Burka Ban, and as usual – my Opinion – not the very Subject is analyzed, but there is an inter-partitical Fighting: the Party who promoted the Ban is opposed by other Parties, which mainly simply oppose the Former, and do anything to boicott any Proposal coming from it;
. Converts to Islam in France and Islam-ists very aggressively defend their “Right to practice their Religion” –
against Western Freedom-ism (which allegedly just turn Women into Prostitutes), and against “Western Terrorists” (who fight against Islamic “Freedom Fighters” in Afghanistan and Irak).
15. Marie claude:
Yeah, sure, mon ami. I got you, and you know it.
Vous parlez trop vite, grande gueule!
Holland is small, and was courted as another fellow “Aryan” people, there was no Anton Moussert in France either. But if you want to compare to another small, occupied country, why not Denmark, were no Jew was given up, Danish or not.
It is simply not true, and an easy escape on your part, to say that unoccupied France, Vichy France’s police was under Gestapo control. They were coward collaborationist instead. It was Petain and Laval who could oppose Hitler’s plan, but did not.
And you say: ["Easy to talk when you were not living here !]
You weren’t either, as I believe you were not alive at that time, some don’t gimme that bull. Try to concentrate on the facts.
17. Marie Claude:
Listen to [20. elisseievna:] hers is a much better assessment of the current situation in Paris-Eurabia than you cliche-filled, ahhh, uhhh, statements.
And for your information…there is no shred of evidence that Hitler liked Muslims or Islam. Yeah, them Muslims liked Hitler because of his stand against Jews, that’s another story.
No, when I wrote Hitler-like, I am referring to radicalism on this Islam issue. When that happens, Geert Wilder will look like a moderate, the Serbs like the example to follow.
Despite his shortcomings, Sarkozy is a breath of fresh air for France. Like the Brits and the Dutch, etc., the French have bent over backwards to make Muslims feel at home and to show their tolerance for the intolerable. Having been played for suckers by both the Muslims and the EU, they will begin to assert their national cultures and reclaim pride in their history. Just a natural cycle that will put to rest the notion that Europe is toast. Could there be a tea party uprising in the works across the pond?
I believe in Sweden, there is actually a car manufacturer that designs special features in cars specifically for women. Europe is odd as it seems kinder yet not in so many ways towards women, but it’s clear we are still lowest all over the world. Out of fear, clearly.
Miaman, lets make it wideer, Poland, Ukraine, about the same population as France, –> 95% Jews exterminated !
Danemark isn’t a good argument for the whole purpose, OK they made escape their national Jews, (not numerous comparatively to the other occupied countries), but they were the most numerous convicted fighters in nazi commandos on the eastern front (as so the Dutchs)
so your arguing for arguing !
about Hitler and islam, there are many pics on the net where muslims leaders were in good terms with Hitler, also that Hitler considerated islam as the only valuable “religion”, and that is why the nowadays lefties are seducted by the same ideology
do your home work, besides there are many sites on the web that have such proofs (Jihad Watch, Atlas Shrug, Creeping Sharia…)
This is just a trap for the left in order to win an election that the right will lose anyway. They are not serious about doing anything with respect to islam. They have been in power for 8 years and have done nothing, other than subsidizing mosques and muslim organizations.
They have systematically harmed their own electorate with US-style politically correct policies, exploding public expenditures, more speech codes, more redistribution, and more environmentalism and global warming hysteria.
As a result they are certain to lose the next election as well as the one after and give power to the left which will give us even more of the same.
This fuss about national identity and integration is just a scam. They want the left to say that the French have no identity and that islam is terrific, in order to make them lose votes in the regional elections.
This won’t work if anything because the right has passed an electoral law that guarantees that the left will win all the regions (it controls 21 out of 22, and will control 22 after the next elections). Don’t ask me why they did that.
We live in a single party system, getting the same suicidal policies no matter who is in power. Voting in our bogus elections is just endorsing this fascist state of affairs.
17. He (Hitler) allegedly lauded Muhammad.
25. I agree there is still Discrimination against Women: those (ADVERTISEMENT’s) Banners on the Street, portraying (half) nacked Women clearly ready for XXX most possible with anyone (any Male),
are not counter balanced by same kind of Banners, portraying (half) nacked Men clearly ready for XXX most possible with anyone (any Female).
On the other Hand I won’t judge as discriminatory as you do the Fact that there are Cars shaped in a more feminine Way: look at the Clothes and at Jewelry and even Novels – there is a typical feminine Style, and a typical masculine one. This is more a Matter of BUSINESS and MARKETING Strategy than a Matter of Discrimination.
It is a superficial Discrimination: before the Law Males and Females are officially equal. [Same not to be said when it comes to Shari'a Law, supported by Burka Wearers: Males and Females are officially UNequal.]
elisseievna,
you have a curious way to interpret the fact,
1- it wasn’t in 2009 but in 2007
2- the anti-veil law concerns the public administrations (and evidently schools for which it was initiated first)
3- if you’d be a “business” owner, you would know that it is forbidden to refuse to sell your goods and or services to any person because of his/her race, gender, religion,
that french woman was putting herself out of the law by refusing a muslim the access to her guest house, though I conceide that this muslim woman exploited the law to make her argument wins in a trial court.
Now, in this justice context, it would have been more clever if this woman had told the muslim woman that she had no room left, it happens when we consider that some custumers aren’t fitting our criteriums of bienseance, I do that when I suspect someone becoming a trouble for my business !
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/societe/20071009.OBS8919/4_mois_avec_sursispour_avoir_refuse_une_femme_voilee.html
now, you didn’t (purposely ?) mention this other fact, when a civil servant refused to marry a muslim because he wasn’t obviously respecting our republican values, and that an HLM office refused to allote an inhabitation to a burqa woman,
so it would be more useful for your cause to be basicly fair !
HellenoChristian,
I mentionned the muslims I KNOW, so that doesn’t say it is the whole muslim community, but it is also unfair to say that this whole community is following the fondamentalists diktats, the majority doesn’t want problem, and is not practicing its religion !
now, I don’t expect that the people that interven here on the subject, be honest, they are pushing a fashist agenda ahead, which isn’t better of the very jihadist’s one for the religious appeasement in our society, I bet that the same people would have condamned Henri IV for having promulgated the “Edit de Nantes”, that allowed 2 centuries of peace, until Louis XIV revocated it
So, mind your own business, we do what we can to handle our problems, so far we have better results than any other contries that are confronted to the same problems
26. Marie Claude:
[Miaman, lets make it wideer, Poland, Ukraine, about the same population as France, –> 95% Jews exterminated !]
Your comparison here is so shallow, so devoid of historical perspective, that I will leave it at that.
A Hitler primer:
To believe that Hitler admired Islam or Mohammed beyond political posturing is to negate the core of Nazism.
Even to swallow the Japanese alliance was hard, the justifying maneuvering difficult.
Hitlerism was based on the supremacy of the so-called Aryan race of Nordic origin, everyone else was below that.
Yes, the Nazis used the Mufti of Jerusalem. Yes, Arab antisemitism colluded with Nazis’ ideals. That’s it!
Marie Claude
Forgive me if I pour a little water on your statistics but it happens that I had some training in statistics a long time ago and I know a bit about factors to look at before infeerring too much at statistics.
So 75% of French Jewish survived but:
1) Geography: It was far easier to escape from France. While Netherlands and Belgium were bordered by occupied countries on all sides, France bordered two neutral countries (Switzerland and Spain) plus one (Italy) who, while officially on Germany’s side, strongly opposed its antisemitism at least until the string of defeats made Mussolini a puppet in German hands. In fact, in the Italian occupation zone, the Italians forbade the implementation of Vichy’s antisemitic laws. I don’t know if this policy was ordered by Rome or if it was an initiative of the (monarchist) Italian Army.
2) The Free Zone aka Vichy. While Vichy enacted anti-semitic legislation it didn’t turn on Jews to the Germans (at least not French Jews, foreign Jews, specially illegal immigrants was another matter). Since the Free Zone was occupied only after Torch (Nov 1942) it means that a large part of French territory was less than two years in German hands versus over four years for Belgium (all of it).
3) Geography (again): The flat, densely populated Netherlands and, to a lesser degree, Belgum were a nightmare for infiltrating British agents and, I think, for hiding in the countryside or building maquis. Jews willing to hide in the countryside for some time had it far easier in France.
4) North Africa: Given that French possessions in North Africa were considered not as colonies but as parts of France proper it is not impossible North African Jews being included in the census of French Jews. In this case they would raise the rate of survival of French Jews since only parts of Tunisia were ever occupied and only for a few months.
Now it is true that contrarily to what happened in say, Poland, there were no cases of the French populace joining the Germans in massacres of Jews (there were pogroms even after German withdrawal), that even staunch Vichy supporters in the Catholic Church (eg the cardinal of Lyon) were hostile to Vichy-style antisemitism and still more to genocidal antisemitism, that many Jews were able to hide in broad daylight, known by everyone, French police included without being reported to the Germans.
30. I mind my own Businesses, being a Citizen of this World and of the Western World. If you don’t mind.
Yes, I do know several Islamic people, too, but by the Time I got to know that they all will eventually fight for their Ideology (Islam) rather than Human Rights for Everyone.
Their Opinions are always based on: 1. Respect for Islam and for themselves; 2. Respect for Others (they come second, even if they are in their own Native Country).
Discussion about Burka (French Language): http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc43bn_la-burqa-vue-par-des-jeunes_lifestyle
the only Couple of Women who are really trying and reasoning on the Burka Problem are the two European ones (that you find them prittier or uglier than the other Women, which are Islamic Immigrants) – they think about next Generations’ Education (when it comes to Human Rights – of Women),
while other Women basically talks in Favour of their religious Identity, protraying it as if it were “a Victim of – religious, spiritual, cultural, … – Discrimination (in the Host Country and all around the Western World)”.
The last interviewed one (unveiled and maked up) gets to say that “they immigrated in the Country, they respected the Values of the Host Country, and therefore they do not see why the Host Country doesn’t respect their Habits (such as their Sisters wearing a Burka)”. Another (hijabed) one pointed out that they (Islamic people) already are “religiously, (culturally) and spiritually stigmatized”.
Honestly, I doubt that in the World do exist people more self-centered (selfish) than Islamic ones, pretty Girls and Women (veiled or not, plain or maked up) included.
[*] Let’s imagine you go to an Islamic Country, you respect Habits there for a while, then you ask for your Habits to be respected – you are a Nudist.
JFM,
The metropole French Jews before WW2 were about 350 000 to 400 000.
In 1962, how comes that this community suddenly passed to about 700 000 to 800 000 ?
I agree that the Vichy government initiated antisemitic legislation, though this was a counter policy to Nazi Germany, (that first expelled its Jews, that as soon it was investing an eastern country, Jews were expelled towards France too. It wasn’t still question to completly eradicate Jews from the human race, but to “clean” the conquerred countries from them. IT is when the Germans invaded Ukraine that Hitler decided the final solution, and to kill them all, because they were too numerous to be handled in camps as cheap labour force.
The Vichy laws were a response to this context, French Vichy considered that it couldn’t accept more foreigners, we already had refugiees from fashist Italy, from Spanish civil war, and the economical refugiees from the last depression that were still a big charge, in fact France had more of the kind of refugiees alone than the whole US had for the same reasons. So probably that “a fed up” public opinion motived these laws too.
Still Petain forbid to touch to the french Jews until Hitler decided to annihilate the whole lot, and gestapo was ruling France, so it was dangerous for a french citizen to overpass the rules, but still the anonym majority did it, and french citizens became as numerous in concentration camps as the other french minorities
Now, Ok, we had borders with “neutral countries, but the Jews need french help to escape there too, some french persons paid it in concentration camps too !
The Bishop of Lyon wasn’t alone to make speeches against the Vichy laws, 50% of the catholic bishops did it too, and more loudly after 1942 when it became sure that the Jews weren’t only deported into labour concentration camps, but to be eliminated.
So, I wonder what is the interest to only focuse on France’s guiltiness, if not for an obvious political agenda, that the anglo-saxon right wingers had too when they called us “surrenders monkeys”.
Now, I would like to see how these good moral people would have reacted at our place, in the same circonstences ?
A bet, 95 % of our Jews would have been slauthered too !
HellenoChristian
you’re a bit late on the burqa argument, I provided quite a few videos in the previous authr post, where french politicians, from left and or right sides, condamned the burqa
Now a question to many: Why didn’t you understand that the Serbs also wanted the same in their own country and fought to keep their traditions and not let their Christian girls wear these as I call them islamic ‘blankets’ as clothes. It’s time to wake up West. It’s never too late or maybe it is, time will show…
Anna S
ask Madeleine albright and the Clinton, they were the first to damn the Serbs and to replace them by muslims
I know very well. But too many are same as these two you mentioned above, unfortunately. It seems that people only understand when something touches their own countries and people. Too sad, but true. Friends becomes enemies and enemies becomes friends, amazing.
Phyllis
Complicated and complex, the history of France and the Jews. I taught and lived in France several times for shorter and longer periods, but haven’t been back for nearly ten years. In a sense I am a francophile, but also know, through my study of the Dreyfus Affair and studies in the 1930s and 1940s, that there are deep veins of anti-Semitism in the nation.
For all the current problems of Islmao-Fascist gangs, rightwing nationalists, and Euro-appeasniks, I have to admit that not only are my best friends still mostly in France but that my most profound cultural roots–other than my Jewish identity–are in that country.
In other words, as with America and Israel, to which both countries I can claim citizenship, I feel very ambiguous about contemporary France–and about history itself.
Today, at morning tea, a colleague said apropos of nothing, he felt he could no longer feel certain about the world. To which I could only reply, Please tell me precisely when you could feel certain about anything?
Norman
33. JFM:
Good analysis. Allow to expand a little about this Holocaustic comparison between France and then Poland and the Ukraine by La Pucelle.
Southern Poland and northwestern Ukraine were part of the Pale of Settlement where the majority of Ashkenazim Jews lived. Contrary to the image of the wealthy Jew, Jews there were usually poor to very poor. Many lived in Shtelts where the main language spoken was Yiddish and some Hebrew. Many were orthodox, wore black caftan and hats and sported Payis.
For the regular German soldier they looked from another galaxy, which contributed to the dehumanization started in Germany. These images from Polish Shtelts were used in the Nazi propaganda film “Der Ewige Jude”. This fact is corroborated in many letters that survive from German soldiers (not officers)to their families in Germany.
What it is an scandal is not that so many Jews survived in France, but that so many were killed. Of the 65,000 deported from Drancy, 63,000 perished. This was France, a beacon of freedom, the land of “Liberté, égalité, fraternité” not Poland or the Ukraine.
What is an scandal is that when Klaus Barbie raided the children home in Izieu in 1944, no one raised a finger. The 44 children were sent to Drancy, then deported to Auschwitz, and ALL KILLED.
Eminent French Jews were also held at Drancy, such as Max Jacob, Tristan Bernard, and Rene Blum.
The French nation has not fully recovered, even today, from the slaughter sustained during World War I. It was emasculated then, both genetically and psychologically. The whipping that Hitler gave them in 1940 was of huge historical proportion and reverberates today, peaked with the genial touch of getting the 1918 armistice train wagon from a museum back to the Compiegne forest for General Weygand to sign the French rendition.
Norman Simms
know, through my study of the Dreyfus Affair and studies in the 1930s and 1940s, that there are deep veins of anti-Semitism in the nation.
But antisemitism was well displayed among all the european nations too, even in UK, (the nobles elite, for what is recorded in history books) and in the US too, where it was difficult for a Jew to get an official position.
So, this “abstract feeling of “hate” wasn’t only a french speciality, ignorance was universal
On Bemont Club,there is a good post about “hate” that could apply to antisemitism too
MiaMan, I guess that your intronisation into the Buddhist club blurred your faculty of analyse, instead of opening your spirit it is blocating it on France ever the yellow serin for whatever goes wrong in the world, but I’m sorry, we have a better apprehension of the fondamentalism problem than you have in your own country.
funny, you have the very symptoms of a “hater” according to the psychanalysts
Marie Claude,
all that you say is simply false,
I know this case of Fanny Truchelut very well,
and wrote this about the question of law in this case :
http://www.ripostelaique.com/_Elisseievna_.html?debut_auteurs=100&debut_articles=10#pagination_articles
If you want to defend Sarkozy, begin by reading his book, where he explains his goal to institute a “islam of france” , wich is of course, completely silly.
Time by time, specially before some elections, there is some reactions against the abuses of islam, but the principles of Sarkozy’s politique does not change.
the reality of the situation of France is this :
street illegaly occupied by muslims praying in the street, before the eye of french policemen, who give a fine to … a car
http://elisseievna.blogspot.com/2010/01/paris-occupe.html
http://elisseievna.blogspot.com/2010/01/premonition.html
Marie Claude,
every thing you say on this case and law is false
read my explanation and the report of the case here
http://www.ripostelaique.com/_Elisseievna_.html?debut_auteurs=100&debut_articles=10#pagination_articles
http://www.ripostelaique.com/-Numero-54-.html
The law of 2004 concerned only the schools.
If you want to defend Sarkozy, it is your problem.
the fact is that he ( see his book about the religions) wants to build one mosq-cathedral in each big town and to create a “islam of france”, wich is of course totally silly
the really in France today is that the police flees before muslims riots and invasion of the streets :
http://elisseievna.blogspot.com/2010/01/premonition.html
This the comment of the case of Fanny Truchelut by the feminist Anne Zelensky, friend of Simone de Beauvoir :
http://www.ripostelaique.com/Un-verdict-lourd-de-consequences.html
As Oskar Freysinger says : ” la France est foutue” : France is lost
Madame Marie Claude, merci pour vos aimables paroles, vous avez toujours si intelligent, ha, ha.
Impossible de prendre les faits? Attaque de l’adversaire.
Other case of persecution of a “white”"non muslim” women in a “suburb” :
http://www.ripostelaique.com/Libraire-au-Bourget-victime-d.html
this woman who has a bookstore was raped and almost killed …
Other case of persecution of a couple of butcher not hallal :
http://www.nordeclair.fr/Locales/Roubaix/2010/01/22/les-cinq-dernieres-annees-ont-ete-un-en.shtml
Other cases of persecution of women and men in the suburb because they are not muslims :
http://elisseievna.blogspot.com/2010/01/la-grande-peur-des-ouvriers-de-france.html
elisseievna:
I was talking of the fact (that happened in 2007) as a business owner myself
“Il est interdit de refuser à un consommateur la vente d’un produit ou la prestation d’un service, sauf motif légitime. Article L.122-1 du code de la consommation”
I understand that you were relating the procès en appel in octobre 2008, which I missed
the whole affair is explained here, andd it says that this woman was an islamist militant
http://jcdurbant.wordpress.com/2008/10/19/affaire-fanny-truchelut-quand-la-defense-de-la-laicite-devient-liberticide/
the law didn’t only concern the schools, but also the french administrations, otherwise why are there facts in papers related about veiled women that were told to quit their veil and sent out for a few days, as an advertissement
OK Sarkozy wants a mosquee (cathedral, hmmm)in big towns, but you prefer that the muslims pray in caves or in the streets and therefore that their discourse is still not controlled by the french authorities, with imported imans,
I’m sorry, this was this non-concern of the former decades that brought the islamist problems as we are facing now
I understand that you would like us to deny the muslims their right to make their cult, it is impossible and non legal
Bravo elisseievna, don’t worry about Marie Claude, she is from La Bretagne, they have really never integrated into French society. If you look on a map, this area looks like the erected penis of France, they are always pissed or pissing on someone else.
MiaMan, tu n’aimes pas qu’on n’admire pas ta gande perspicacité, faut t’y faire, tu n’es pas le seul esprit sur terre
mais tu as quand même le sens de l’humour, alors on peut finallement te pardonner
Marie Claude: I don’t think talking about Burkas is too late – at the Opposite.
In my Case, I think that Discussions about the Subject expose:
. that Islamic/-ist self-centered/selfish/supremacist SADO-MASOCHIST Mentality which has to be feared(if we want still live in a liberal Democracy, based on Universal Human Rights AND DUTIES),
. and that Multicultural/Silly/Naive Mentality – among Non-islamic people – which has to be feared too (if we don’t want Islamic/-ist Mentality to overthrow our Society/-ies).
—
The Difference between Anti-semitism (meant: Anti-judaism) and Anti-islamism is that:
. Jews feel to be elected People, acting as a private Club, whose People somehow don’t wish to integrate in other Societies, but who DID NOT HAVE a single Country of theirs, therefore got UNJUSTLY persecuted;
. Islamic/-ist people feel the same, acting as an Expantionist Clan, whose Members somehow don’t wish to integrate in other Societies, but who ALREADY HAVE (stolen) Countries of theirs, therefore are JUSTLY invited “to integrate or to leave”.
—
The Problem is not to deny someone his/her Right to pray, the Problem lies on the Core of Islamic/-ist Teaching, which is against Human Rights and Democracy. This Fact is witnessed at INTERNATIONAL public official political Level by the “Cairo Declaration of Universal Human Rights in Islam”, 1990.
There must be some Kind of recognizable Difference to be made between Islam and other Beliefs – Islamic/-ist people are pushing Shari’a into our Western public legal educational social System.
Hizb ut-Tahrir is an Islamic/-ist POLITICAL Party which is forwarding Shari’a's Rules (Discrimination, Racism, Supremacism, Apartheid, gruesome Punishments, …) into our World, where many Islamic/-ist people freewillingly IMMIGRATE and BENEFIT OF EUROPEAN SOCIAL WELFARE!
It is Politics, not Religion – the Way we persecute so called “Neo-Nazis”, then we have to persecute Islamists, too. Or None!
There was a time when it was fun to visit Paris. Before the sporadic Youth Muslim Intifada. Yes, there were the all-Muslim neighborhoods with the idle populace as usual, but now they have become dangerous ghettos.
American tourism, consistently the number one visitor since World War 2, has decreased by 11% in the last 2 years. The Japanese and Chinese are also staying home.
Even the hookers in Rue Saint-Denis have changed so much, as they used to be French! But Sarkozy, Le Roi Bling, Bling, as Interior Minister, tried to outlaw passive solicitation in 2003, resulting in more power for the Muslim pimps. The next thing will be: La putain avec la burqa.
As for me, you can call me a Pied Noir.
Logos:
Surface! We miss your incisive Catholic sarcasm. As a member, or aspiring member I am sure, of Opus Dei, I am sure you have one or more opinions about what is being said here.
Marie Claude, you are not a jurist, and you have a false conception of the notion of religion and freedom of religion.
I explain that in my texts mentionned above.
As Wafa Sultan says : do not let the muslim define the word “religion”.
ok, my post disappeared in the abysses of the net
elisseievna:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa79ag_la-bataille-du-mont-cassin-janvier_news
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa6×2q_la-bataille-du-mont-cassin-janvierm_news
http://www.curiosphere.tv/video-documentaire/25-histoire-geo-et-civilisations/103916-reportage-lennemi-intime-said-le-soldat-harki
These videos should remind you that once upon a time thousands of muslim soldiers died for freeing your country, firs in trenches where they were the first to experiment the german gas, then in WW2 with the french free colonial army that fought the Germans in Maghreb and in Italy, (ie the above videos) where they opened the road to Roma, in Monte cassimo, when the others alliees ramies failed, they managed it !
Now, I’m not a pro religions war, and muslims that respect our republican values should be respected as any other french citizen, and also they should benefit of the right of praying in dignity/
And I’m fighting any abuses from whatever religion that would impse us its rules
Marie Claude…please…you are not a jurist…OK? Please stop the avalanche of videos and quotes.
Haven’t you, woman, learned that no one ever convinces another of anything?
You know, you are a case Guy de Maupassant would have taken in one of them short stories about them weird people from northern France as in the case of “Mademoiselle Fifi”.
Let’s talk about “la confiture” or, better…Shaka Zulu.
Marie Claude, you mix and confuse everything, you tend to accuse me of non respect for the human beings who are “muslims” in differents manners : so I forbid you to do that, that is a diffamation against me.
Marie Claude…please allow me to cry a little…about them Muslim soldiers and all…wow, thank you.
About Monte Cassino, thanks again, as I always thought it was the British Tenth Corp, and later the US 36th under the US II Corp that did the brunt of the fighting (Mr. G I Joe), and that the Moroccan under Monsieur Ringel were halted cold on the right flank (may be they were praying and the German Mountain Division took advantage, the scoundrels).
Listen, these are the facts, as Mademoiselle Elisseievna clearly shows on her webpage, on the Muslim/Islam issue, “La France est F….. Up”, or if you prefer “est foutue”.
And no, I don’t have to live there to know it, or be Fanfan La Tulipe, Cartouche, or even Le Chevalier C. Auguste Dupin (of the Mystery of the Rue Morgue fame).
Elisseivna, come on,
I’m not mixing anything, I just remind you to be a bit less partisan, and consider that the whole muslim community ain’t the same people represented by the fondamentalists
This is why I remind you that these populations are part of our memory and identity too
MiaMan, t’es gentil, but I know more the french laws than you ever will,
and about MonteCassino, I understand that, that this french heteroclite army prowess represents some pain in your a**
faut t-y faire l’ami, les faits sont têtus !
Marie Claude … Venez …
Ne vous inquiétez pas, E. n’essaiera pas d’obtenir votre âne.
Elle essaie de vous expliquer la réalité des faits, la vérité.
S’il vous plaît, prenez des vacances et visiter Paris.
At international Level they fight Now for their Shari’a Law, and on the Blog of Elisseivna there is an interesting Article about Hizb ut-Tahrir. We can’t absolutely not accept their Ideology, which – like Elisseivna righteously says – is against Universal Human Rights. Period. Where did I recently read that Moderates hold Infidels down, while Militants cut their Throats off?
Human were and are still wellcome in the West: Totalitarian Middleaged Misogynist Ideologies like Islam NOT – and Islam is that Thing based on Islamic Shahada, which has to do with Allah (who stated the “legal” Inferiority of Women) and Muhammad (who married – had Sex with – a Kid, raped Women, had Slaves and far more than 4 Wives, slaughtered People, and depicted Women as mentally Deficient), and therefore with Koran and Sunnah (= Shari’a, which is against Universal Human Rights and against Women’s Rights).
Marie Clause, yes, more than likely you know about French law more than me. However, I have been studying Sharia Law, and advise you to start for when it replaces French law in France, not in the distant future.
Besides I once worked in Louisiana for 3 months. Learned French law. It ain’t difficult. I think that Corsican put together much of what it is today.
Moreover, I have been a follower, and admirer I may say, of Tintin (Les Aventures de Tintin), and Milou, who although originally Belgian, teaches you anything you need to know about French law (Tintin en Amérique).
I suspect you don’t like me because I am an avowed follower of Jean-Marie Le Pen, and an irredeemable Pied Noir. Bon…Voilà
the oscar for those with the most detestable dna goes to… moslems. miscreants and nutjobs with an agenda. nice.
the definitive documentary on the french and the nazis, btw, is the classic “the sorrow and the pity” 7 hours and you won’t want to leave the room.
MiaMam, you then learnt what is a coo*ard !
Sorry but Napoleon code isn’t only an elaboration of a corsican mind, mind you the man was intelligent, he took what the Revolutionnaires had written, as a fair creation of revolution himself, but, not alone, some were already in use by the Monarchy, incredible too, some had their origins in Torah !
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Klarsfeld
“quel rôle a joué la délation dans la population ?
A propos de la question juive, une légende court sur la délation au sein de la population. En fait, il y a eu très peu de dénonciations de Juifs en France. Ce sont un peu aussi les Juifs eux-mêmes qui ont inventé cette notion de délation parce qu’ils refusaient en quelque sorte le destin qui leur a été imposé par la volonté hitlérienne, à savoir par le recensement. En arrivant en France, les Allemands ont tout de suite demandé à l’administration française de recenser les Juifs. Ces derniers se sont fait recenser en septembre/octobre 1940 en zone occupée et en juillet 1941 en zone libre. Mais, en septembre/octobre 1940, ils ne se doutaient pas encore des intentions criminelles des nazis allemands. En juillet 1941, les gens ne s’imaginaient pas que les Allemands pourraient arriver en zone libre. Donc les Juifs se sont fait recenser à 95 %. En cas de refus, les sanctions étaient graves, ils devaient donc y aller. Dans le même temps, une fois qu’ils étaient recensés, leur destin était fixé : avec leurs fichiers classés par adresse, par ordre alphabétique, par profession, par nationalité, il était facile pour les autorités de les arrêter. Pour les autorités françaises puis allemandes, notamment en 1944, quand les autorités françaises ont procédé à moins d’arrestations qu’avant et que les Allemands l’ont fait directement, surtout dans l’Est de la France.”
http://www.arte.tv/fr/les-mercredis-de-l-histoire/cette-semaine/Cette-semaine/709866,CmC=709910.html
Serge Klarsfel is a lawer that works on facts, and lives in France
Max Ophüls is a movies maker, and lived in America, any qestion ?
Judy from NY, do your home work, but I know you won’t, so you’re of the same sort of antisemits before WW2, but for the French, and, in this case I find you stupidly as so dangerous
71. And please, let me know, what sort of Anti-semitism do Islamic/-ist people/Communities suffer of?
Oh sorry, they just Hate Jews and Everyone who isn’t Islamic. Again: Jews are a private Club, while Islamic/-ist people are an expantionist Clan.
About Shari’a Law, it is supported and promoted at INTERNATIONAL Level by the Organisation of the Islamic Conference.
Among Germans there certainly were some which refused to follow Hitlerian Ideology (they got killed for that – Criticism of Hitlerian Ideology was forbidden, exactely they Way Criticism of Islam is),
but eventually the Group at the Head of Germany succeeded (’til it got defeated by The Allies).
Islamic Ideology is highly dangerous and dreadful – here, there, Everywhere. For Non-islamic people (Males and Females) first, and then for (Islamic) Females.
Marie Clause:
This whole excerpt in French is a great definition of French collaboration with the Germans…for example:
“…Donc les Juifs se sont fait recenser à 95 %. En cas de refus, les sanctions étaient graves, ils devaient donc y aller. Dans le même temps, une fois qu’ils étaient recensés, leur destin était fixé : avec leurs fichiers classés par adresse, par ordre alphabétique, par profession, par nationalité, il était facile pour les autorités de les arrêter.”
And that is what happened. There is no denying that 63,000 Jews deported from Drancy were murdered. Do you deny that? Because you can’t deny, then you justify. What about the Barbie affair in Izieu (44 children killed), do you want to research that and justify it too? Go ahead.
As usual, with everything with you, the use of half-truths is prevalent, your small mind can’t do better, for Max Ophüls was a German Jew who died in Hamburg, 1957. As for Serge, a Romanian Jew, his father was arrested by Alois Brunner in Nice in France and deported to Auschwitz, where he died.
tiens, free speech c’est quoi ? I wasn’t edited, but though still my parole wasn’t hate speech
now, MiaMan, when you’ll be not interpretating french texts for your own agenda, may-be you’ll be more taken seriously
France is a country that has many compassionate, humane social programs. Unlike America, their society has more than hate and greed. Chirac bravely stood against the corporate genocidal war machine of the Bush regime and provided succor to the Palestinian victims of American/Israeli oil imperialism. However, the racism of their colonial past seems to be getting the better of them right now. This has been most likely encouraged by CIA operatives during the Bush years whose clandestine propaganda has encouraged many Frenchmen to blame dark-skinned people for their country’s problems and take attention away from the machinations of the capitalist chieftans on Wall Street