How to Fight Them
We have to fight them, because their radical imams, mosques, and schools threaten us; they constitute an assembly line for the next generation of home-grown American jihadi killers. But we can’t ask the courts to silence them, because we want to maintain our 1st Amendment rights.
How, then, do we fight? There are three basic lines of attack. The first is to openly contest their odious doctrines and practices. As Manda Ervin said here yesterday, speaking in the name of Muslim women:
We want America to treat Islam like it treats Christianity and Judaism, and to stop exempting Muslims from requirements imposed on others. We want Islam to be challenged by the same questioning, criticism, and control that is applied to other religions. Please stop pampering Islam to appease the terrorists and dictators.
Amazingly, a lot of people act as if it is somehow improper for members of one religion to challenge basic doctrines of other religions, but not only is it proper, it is not nearly as rare as you might imagine. And a lot of what we want to challenge isn’t doctrine, but practice.
Take this fascinating story for example. It turns out that the Mormons have the somewhat unusual practice of retroactively baptizing dead people. I don’t find this objectionable, any more than the Baptists’ zeal for converting live Jews, but there are many Jews who are upset by the practice, especially in the case of Jews murdered in the Nazi death camps. They denounced the “proxy baptism,” and went to the Mormons to make their case. Longish story, but the Mormons have twice reacted with sympathy and promised not to do it. There are lots of such cases, involving various religious groups. As Manda says, it’s un-American to have special, kid-gloves standards for any American religious community, including Muslims.
Indeed, many of their practices have no Koranic justification, above all the way they treat their women. So far as I know, the Koran doesn’t require women to be covered up, and there are certainly Islamic communities in the Middle East and Asia where women dress “normally.” We have every reason to challenge this, instead of granting special exemptions to Muslims. And we do just that, to our shame. Take a look at the State Department’s instructions for submitting a passport application. In numbered paragraph #4 you will discover that while most folks have to submit photographs with their head uncovered, this does not apply to those who cover themselves for religious reasons. This is nonsense. This means that some man can show up at the airport in a burqa, and the security people can’t routinely match him with the (woman’s) passport he’s carrying. Indeed, we should emulate the French and forbid women to cover themselves in public.
And of course we should relentlessly condemn their misogyny, especially the several “honor killings” which, if we are bound and determined to prosecute evil acts as “hate crimes,” should be at the top of the list.
One fights with what they have, and what they acquire.
So, is the part of the world which was based upon the fusion of the cultures of Jerusalem, Athens & Rome, going to use what has been developed over time, or will there be surrender to a smaller more devoted force?
After all, in the Second World War, Japan defeated the land forces of the British Empire over in Asia, which earned General Percival the cold contempt of Winston Churchill.
It’s odd that Churchill would have cold contempt for Gen. Percival for being defeated by the Japanese, considering that Churchill shared responsibility for the greatest military disaster in the hstory of the British Empire, the Battle of Gallipoli.
The greatest military disaster in the history of the British Empire was the surrender of Singapore. Gallipoli was a lost campaign, lost mostly because the technology of the time was inadequate and because of the great leadership of General Kemal, later Ataturk. By your standard, the Battle of the Somme would be worse than both but the tank was the solution to trench warfare and Churchill had a hand in its invention.
Percival was criticized because of his defeatism and his failure to attempt to defend Singapore. The Japanese troops who arrived across the strait on bicycles were starving. The Japanese Army never solved the logistics problems of their troops. Had Percival mounted an active defense, he might have held them off, at least for a while. He never tried.
“But we can’t ask the courts to silence them, because we want to maintain our 1st Amendment rights.”
I recall some of the writings of Sidney Hook. Should any group be allowed to enter the political and academic arenas that categorically rejects the First Amendment? They only pretend to adhere to the U.S. Constitution. A Communist or Islamic extremist laughs at free speech and will violate everyone’s rights if they gain power. Both groups strongly believe they have a right to deceive outsiders.
You’re on to something David. Islam, and other religions that engage in political activity, should lose their non profit tax status. Furthermore, those of us who are concerned should not be silent in the face of Islam’s repugnant social practices. Those who say we should shut up because it is a religion, is mostly the yammering of left wing socialists who would silence their opposition if they could. Nothing stops them from attacking Christianity or Judaism in the most vocal and vile manner. Islam is a religion that deserves to be vocally attacked until it transforms itself into something more socially acceptable.
Islam is a totalitarian POLITICAL/SOCIAL ideology, with a veneer of religion to suck people in and keep them mentally (and, in the case of women, physically) enslaved.
It doesn’t deserve any more protection than weird cults like the Aryan Nations.
I agree wholeheartedly with these simple three suggestions. Why we don’t have “names” of Radical Imams is way beyond me. The “whys” of this situation is mind boggling.
Political correctness, i.e., Stockholm syndrome.
We also take them, head on. http://www.infowars.com/globalist-soros-launches-frontal-assault-against-tea-party/ amongst other things, is taken on here: http://ezralevant.com/2010/09/george-schwartz-the-jewish-naz.html
Soros…needs to be dealt with…harshly. For one anti American, treasonous infiltrator to have so much influence over the masses….is as dangerous as an Imam having the bomb. Maybe worse…since he has so much control over the media.
An important aspect of this debate that is the plight of not only Muslim women, but all Muslims. Though women suffer much more severely under Islam, all adherents of this “religion” suffer unnecessarily.
I can’t think of any other organization, which in America, is allowed to deny its members the Constitutionally protected rights to free speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of religion; and, furthermore, will impose the penalty of death when one of its members attempts to assert these rights supposedly protected by the constitution. Why is this “religion” allowed to take root in America? It is definitely not to escape religious persecution, after all, there any number of countries where Islam is the only “religion” allowed. Islam and the constitution do not mesh.
It’s because of the claim that the vast silent majority of Muslims are Moderate. I’m sure Imam Rauf, and his ilk, would deny that Islam, as they promote it, would engage in any of these repugnant practices. And once Shariah Law becomes the law of the land, these practices will no longer be at issue.
The sad irony is that the first significant groups of Muslim immigrants to the United States in the early 20th century were from Bosnia, and the Ahmadi from what became Pakistan, fleeing persecution in their home countries, and assimilating into American life.
The real Sufis of SE Asia also face persecution by the Wahhabists. Rauf is a Kuwaiti-born Egyptian, a Sunni who pretends to be a Sufi. btw, Daisy is Rauf’s third wife – maybe Rauf married Daisy to get on the lease for that “West 85th mosque in an apartment”.
Do you know if Rauf still has his other two wives or has he divorced them?
I actually find some of the Sufi teachings to be rather enlightened.
That gullible naive left wing moonbats and idiotic Gays and Lesbians pay lip service support in the name of ‘freedom and justice ‘to a man who would if he could impose brutal, violent, unjust, misogynistic, anti Gay, anti Kaffir, Muslim supremacist, medieval Shariah Law on the USA is just beyond parody.
yes, pragmatist, it is some kind of sickness, and it also affects liberal Jews and Christians and of course the atheists and agnostics, all of whom will be dhimmiized…
“Constitution vs. Shari’a” is the new battlecry.
The two are mutually exclusive.
America, make your choice. Defend the Constitution, or prepare to live under shari’a.
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2010/09/burn-koran-or-constitution.html
Given the fact that many terrorists have been and are carrying out some of the most absolutely horrible atrocities against humanity under the banner of their “Islam,” an unusually intense concern for security and safety is now justifiably present amongst non-Muslims for their lives and properties all over the free world, particularly the United States.
Thus, the need for utmost efficiency in our security and counterintelligence methods and practices is vitally paramount.
In that regard, the following proposal can not be without merit:
Our security and counterintelligence apparatus should give a polygraph examination to all individuals who claim, or are known to be “Muslim,” regardless of their degree of professed religious devotion,
and who also want to
- live in America
or
- join the US military services
or
- join the US intelligence community
or
-work at a US intelligence facility,
and ask this question under examination:
As a Muslim, given that per definition of the “Holy Quran,” “Allah is all knowing, and knows what is in the hearts of men,” would you willingly give your life, or believe a Muslim should, to uphold and or to protect what a Muslim may at any time understand or consider as
-will
or
-honor
or
-law
or
-cause
of Allah, and/or Islam? Yes or No?
The sad truth is that all “true” Muslims will have to answer yes, or they will fail that exam.
And through that exam, hopefully the confused people who think they are Muslim, will get one step closer to seeing the truth – or, rather, fallacy – of Islam.
We need to at once refute the most basic tenet of this debate, to then see that we are fighting the wrong battle. The framers of this futile argument assert this most absurd axiom:
“Islam is a religion.”
Only after we dissolve that obvious fallacy can we clearly see the problem.
You’re going to lose this debate bubber. Islam may be much more than a religion. It is also a political movement, a legal system, a monolithic assault on humanity ( add your own description) etc. But in the minds of most of the population of the world, it is a religion. You’ll waste a lot of time and effort trying to change that.
Since fleeing Mecca in 622 the amalgamation of followers of Mohammad quickly become nothing less than subtle roots for geographic expansion anywhere that mafia tactics of collection for protection were allowed to grow. Under its shadow religion open interpretation of Syriac trader language of conflicting symbols having multiple meanings was forced into emerging classic Arabian script only to be again corrupted with written Arabic grammar in 780. In 944 seven systems of reading the text were settled with added previously non existent vowels and pointing thereby burning more bridges between canonical test and original script. In short they said that it meant whatever was deemed most advantageous to those at the top. How anyone except those with a mind closed by its repetition of confusion could ascribe to its demands is incomprehensible to most Americans. Does the description sound familiar to what is dumped on the public here today? It must be the responsibility of any organization to expose and flush out all corruption before seeking public acceptance.
The USA is fertile soil with a variety of ideologues positioned in government to cultivate many unconstitutional species by edict. Expect more of the same with judicial protection for the perpetrators.
Supreme Being Allah is of course so omnipotent that he can only understand Ancient Ambiguous Arabic which is why NO translation of the Koran is ever acceptable. The same Allah that PRE ordains everything about your life including whether you will believe in HIM or not and who will then punish in sadistic occasional skin replacing ‘Eternal Hellfire” anyone that does not believe in HIM. This is not a God this is a SADISTIC evil entity or rather the INVENTION of a SADISTIC, misogynistic, paedophilic, slave owning, Arab supremacist, antisemitic Mohammad.
BTW Muslims I am not insulting you or Allah I am just quoting your OWN hly Book and your aHadith and Surah.
Amen, brother. Islam is certainly a case of the invention of a “god” in a man’s own image. This is the case with any mere religion. Only Truth, as revealed by the LIVING God, Yahweh, who incarnated Himself as a man, is worth laying down one’s life for. And please note that God, who revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, KILLED NO ONE. No, as the Bible says, Yahweh wants no human being to be destroyed, but rather, desires with all His heart that everyone come to the know the Truth–which is Love–and live with Him forever. This is good GOOD NEWS!!! “He did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to SAVE it.”
Three things to do before proceeding:
Read Robert Reilly’s book, “The Closing of the Muslim Mind”.
Read what Robert Reilly has to say about “The Closing of the Muslim Mind”.
Read “The Clsing of the Muslim Mind” by Robert Reilly.
A mind 9th Century theological dispute was won by the wrong side and that is what
is driving things today. And IMHO, only a theolgoically based counterattack can break the death spiral.
Dave,
Exactly. I’ve been beating this theological counterattack drum for some time, in terms of 1) working with Islamic sects that still adhere to a Mu`tazili approach of non-literalism regarding the violent suras of the Qur’an, and/or 2) exploiting the sectarian differences within Islam: http://hnn.us/articles/83742.html
personally, i cannot stand them because they are fascists and their notions of piety are insane. anyone who does support them is slime, and we seem to be mired in the stuff lately.
it is as if they have put something in the water, because when did we like fascists or was i out of the room when this happened.
these are dangerous knuckle draggers who are anti everything, including the enlightenment.
they have to go away and take their mosques and their mosqueteers with them.
I agree with points #2 and #3. As for #1, while not all of their barbarity is justified in the Koran, much of it is. And they take it literally. They’re not distorting it, they’re heeding it. Muhammad commanded people to kill and he killed many people himself. Saying this aloud is impolitic in our society, but our adversaries say this amongst themselves, proudly, every day, and every time they go on a mission to kill infidels.
Isn’t there room to challenge doctrine as well? To basically say, ‘Look: There’s a bunch of stuff in Leviticus that we don’t take literally, that we don’t act upon. It’s time you do the same with your holy book. Be a part of this century.’
On this note, just as Bush believed we should use political ideas to challenge their political ideas (democracy v. dictatorship, etc), so too I think we should be using the awe of all-things-science to undermine a bit of their dogmatism. What’s it say in the Hadith about quantum physics? You can’t reason a man out of something he wasn’t reasoned into, no, but perhaps you can both appeal to a portion of young, impressionable minds, while putting innocent, modern dents in their theological shield. A cannabis-and-Carl Sagan strategy is a bit more long-term for sure, but Muslims can be hippies too.
yes, nick, well said. Muslims can be hippies. hah!
I am afraid that comparing Christianity with Islam is comparing apples with oranges. Allow me to copy and paste an earlier comment I made on this site:
“The fundamental difference between the 3 Abrahamic monotheistic religions is the question of deification. In Judaism, the Law as given to Moses by the Tetragrammaton (respecting Dr. Ledeen’s beliefs I will not use the name of the Lord) is deified. In Christianity the Son of Man is deified in the body of Yeshua of Nazarene. In Islam the Book (Koran) is deified as it is referred to as Kalam-o-Allah (The Word of God). Put differently, Mohammad acted as a glorified stenographer jotting down word for word what Allah was telling him to write. So, it is quite reasonable for a Christian to disagree with parts of the Bible and still call himself or herself a Christian as long as he or she believes that Yeshua is the Son of God conceived immaculately through the good offices of the Holy Spirit and rose after crucifixion. After all, the Bible is not the word of god but an accumulation of Gospels and the Pentateuch put together in Nicea under orders from Constantine. If you call yourself a Muslim and yet feel that parts of the Koran are harsh and unreasonable then you can only be someone who has fondness for parts of Islam but you are NOT a Muslim. As I have fondness for certain parts of the Bhagavad Gita but cannot call myself a Hindu. To be a Muslim you have to accept the totality of the Koran as the Word of God, Alpha to Omega.”
So, you see, you can be prefectly comfortable in claiming to be a Christian and yet disagree with what Leviticus may say about homosexuality, but as a Muslim you do not have such a luxury.
We have the same problem in the UK. We have plenty of laws to deal with the Islamofascists, but the authorities just will not apply them. It is illegal to incite religious hatred but no one has yet been prosecuted for calling for Jews to be killed. It’s the usual problem – a total lack of common sense.
We also have laws to deal with them in the US, but I don’t expect they will be enforced here either…. not until we get rid of our very pro Islamic president…. and his very pro Islamic Attorney General.
wayne, please spell it out. tell us about those laws “to deal with them in the US.”
It’s been pointed out here several times that Shariah is not compatible with our Constitution and would be in violation if it were allowed to operate as part of our judicial process. How could arranged marriages, polygamy, maritally sanctioned rape, etc., not be considered blatant violations. Yet this is what’s coming (and is already being tested) from Muslim enclaves right here in America. These are clear violations of our Constitution and could be prosecuted. But our Attorney General is busy prosecuting Arizona.
We are a much more free society than the UK. I’m not an advocate of “Hate Speech Laws” like they have there and in Canada. They are the result of Multiculturalism and Political Correctness run a muck. Hate Speech Laws would be used against us by the Islamists and their enablers. Then Eric Holder would be prosecuting us.
Michael, in this video, a radical islamist supremacist is holding up a poster of a photoshopped Buckingham Palace converted to a mosque. When asked by a reporter, “What about the Queen?” the man says that she has a choice; convert to islam or leave the country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F49kogA9Jb4
I live in the USA, don’t know much about UK law, aren’t such threats against the Queen illegal?
notsoreddawn: either such threats aren’t illegal or the authorities are unwilling to enforce the laws. i don’t believe such threats are illegal here, either, btw.
all our villages have their idiots, bill perron. the Italians have a great saying: “the mother of idiots is always pregnant…”
Only when it’s citizens tie the hands and gag the mouth of thier government. It is no different here. Already they are offering a promotion to Caliphe here for the one to offer paryers at the proposed mosque.
The last I heard it was illegal to conspire to kill someone, even for religious reasons. I seem to recall learning of more than one religion that was outlawed for it’s practices of sacrifice. Conspiring to kill is 2 people talking about or making plans to do so. Therefor we have simple, legal grounds to restrict entry and practice of the radicals. After all, if we can stop Mormons from having multiple wives (on what grounds pray tell?) we should be able to stop some of the heinous actions of radical Muslims. By the way, how is that restriction on Mormons any different than California’s recent amendment to their constitution defining marriage as the union between one man and one woman, which was overwhelmingly passed by the people and overturned by one judge who should have recused himself for conflict of interest? And if we can restrict one religion’s practices, which hurt no one by the way, we should certainly be able to restrict another religion whose practices demonstrably hurt many many people.
In your remarks about the California proposition about the definition of marriage, you refer to the judge who overturned that decision and say he should have recused himself. I assume you mean that he should have done so because he is gay (or so I’ve heard anyway!). Furthermore, I assume you’re saying that because you are heterosexual.
The problem with that is a heterosexual judge could also be seen as being unduly biased by the homosexual community.
It seems to me that EVERYONE has some stake or preference or bias in the definition of marriage and may become a candidate for recusal.
Can you think of anyone that ISN’T going to be biased in one direction or another? If not, how then can ANY judge (or group of judges) render a decision on such an issue?
A celibate judge would be a neutral arbiter.
Unfortunately, we’ve reached a place here in the United States where our politically correct leaders say that it is OK to turn a blind eye towards other religions simply because it falls under the heading of “multiculturalism.” This is utter nonsense. We have every right to declare a religion illegal unless it can prove to American courts that it is not a danger to the general welfare of the public.
For example, if a religion suddenly sprouted up in this country where its leaders said openly in their churches that it was OK to beat women, stone people to death for various crimes, kill Jews and gays, marry 12-year-old girls to 80-year-old men, treat women as chattel or property, and had the ability to issue proclamations that certain individuals could be killed, actually killed, for speaking out against this religion, don’t you think the FBI would be on this in a heartbeat for breaking about a dozen Federal and State laws for conspiring to commit murder, among other things? And what if these same churches had branches overseas that maintained all of the above principles, yet those same churches here in the United States never actively condemned those principles and even encouraged them? Wouldn’t that be aiding and abetting a crime? And what if these same churches here in the United States collected money here and then used it to support terrorist organizations overseas?
You can see where this is all going. Not all cultures, or religions for that matter, are equal. That is a lie. There are headhunters in New Guinea, but I don’t think we would approve of or condone that practice here in America. If a religion here in this country encourages behavior that breaks civil law, then it must be stopped and prosecuted. Freedom of Religion never ment that you had the right to either kill people or incite a riot or civil unrest in the process. David Koresh started his own religion in Waco, Texas, and we all saw how that turned out. And please remember that the first World Trade Center attack was planned in a mosque in Jersey City back in 1993, with its blind imam plotting further attacks on New York City.
In the far-left’s desire to appear as multiculturalist champions, radical Islamists are using our own freedoms against us. But nowhere in the Constitution does it say that you can use Freedom of Religion as a physical weapon against the state. Are we singling out Muslims here? You bet, because there don’t seem to be any Jews or Christians around strapping bombs on to themselves and blowing up trains or restaurants or flying jet planes into buildings. Not only does Islam have a lousy public relations problem right now, the entire religion should be placed on a watch list until it can prove to us that it is not a threat to the rest of the world. Until then, it should be watched and fought just like Communism was during the Cold War. For many, Islam is not only a religion, it is a political philosophy and a call to arms, just like Communism was. And it should be fought the same way.
“…if a religion suddenly sprouted up in this country where its leaders said openly in their churches that it was OK to beat women, stone people to death for various crimes, …….. marry 12-year-old girls to 80-year-old men, treat women as chattel or property, and had the ability to issue proclamations that certain individuals could be killed, actually killed, for speaking out against this religion…”,
We actually had a religion very much like this in the middle nineteenth century… however instead of stoning, beheading and throat cutting were the barbaric practice used on those who would dare misbehave. It was commonly known as the Mormon Church. When the US Gov’t started placing it’s leaders in jail (by the hundreds) and threatening to confiscate its property, it changed. Today is is a very mainstream Christian, pro American, religion.
Perhaps Islam could benefit form a similar treatment? Perhaps not. As Mormon Prophet’s die off they are replaced by a new Prophet. Islam allows for no such replacement of Mohammed.
Excellent post that should be dispatched as a memo to all who are involved in making our laws.
LibertyShip46,
This is absolutely one of the very best succinct summaries of the whole situation that I have read. I hope it goes viral.
Quite honestly you are going about this problem the wrong way. The source of all your problems is the need for the US military to have a foe. The same is true for many and it was so on ancient Iran. Salman Parsi who created Islam knew what he was doing to prevent proselytizing in the 7th Century. It is a long story but the roots start there. Once more is written about it the truth will win the hearts and minds of writers. Most of the writers on Iran do not know this and cannot see the Iranian culture that prospered without Islam between 11th and 16th century. Our problem is bad reporting.
no, alimostofi, your problem is that your rulers are monsters.
They are not our leaders. They are an occupying force who put Islam above Iran . Treat them as such. Refer to them as an alien regime, otherwise they will think that you accept them as Iranians. You know very well that the true Iranians believe in Life and celebrate Nowruz. That spirit freed the Jews.
Islam was created by Salman Parsi?
BTW, the best time of Iran was the Sassanid Empire, when men and women had the same civil rights. Then, came Islam and the rest is history, sad history.
Yes, but don’t mention it in an Islamic country or else you would be dead meat.
…this “alimostofi” should rush right out to the nearest public library and read very carefully George Orwell’s “1984″.
Better yet, surely Amazon has a cheap used copy which would be very useful to study twisted meanings and “think”…..
Comments such as this from a “alimostofi” would be amusing if they weren’t so absurd.
lol
Ali i think you will find that it was Mohammad who INVENTED Islam.
“But we can’t ask the courts to silence them, because we want to maintain our 1st Amendment rights.”
That’s America’s problem, freedom of speech shouldn’t be allowed if it’s ment to break down society values, to attempt to a State security and cohesion.
I find it odd that so many different churches exist in the US, may-be that explains why Islamists can find their ways there too, since th Muslisms haven’t a uniform Koran explanation, that there are as many “sectarisms” (or, as many different churches as preachers) as imans !
Some criticize our centralised government, but in the occurence it is quite helpful to fight back those that want to destroy our constitutional rights, we don’t recognize “sectarisms”, the different imans have to be organized as a christian pyramidal organisation, they have their “pope”, that is the responsible for all the french Muslims in front of our government and laws.
It’s so, since we banned the veil at schools and administrations, no more contests came for the imposition of them, idem, some tried to impose burqa, since it’s officiallly banned, suddenly these sectarian revendications slow down. But I’m not naive, the islamists will try another cheating mean ! I’m glad that the right and left partis are unified to defend our republican values
Freedom of religion means freedom of other religions, not just Islam, too! Nor does it mean special priviledges other faiths don’t get. They must abide by the same treatment and responsibilities as other religions here– the right to swing their fist stops at nose of the non-believers, period.
One way to fight them is to use the Constitution.
A compelling case can be made that Islam, the doctrine and practice thereof, is not ‘Constitutionally Compliant’ and is therefore unconstitutional and unlawful. To do otherwise is to allow Islam, the doctrine and practice thereof, to fester and rot this country until it falls apart, and calamity and chaos become the norm.
Until the Supreme Ayatollahs in the Middle East begin issuing Death Fatwas against Imams in America, none of us are safe.
there is no such thing as moderate “imam” in Islam period, all Imams trullyy believe in Sharia law, as a matter of fact the biggest difference between moderate Muslims and the extremist ones is that the moderate ones do not follow any imams and therefore they are more immune the brainwashings.
A cleric/imam is a cult leader and Islam wouldn’t be as dangerous it is without them. Any single terrorist in the world was recrtuited by fanatic inside a mosque or Islamic society, then the real brainwashing processs takes place in private religious classes almost always inside the mosques and almost always an imam/cleric is the one who does the brainwashing.
I believe since the discrimination laws can not be revised, the only option is to limit all religious activities in the US including the activities of the Christians and the Jews.
All religions should be treated as idologies no different than the ones not about religin.
For example, teacing and publishing of any ideology (Nazism, Islam, or even a Christian, Bhuddist or Jewish sect) that teaches hate and racism should be banned and punished .
If a verse of Quran tells the Muslims that certain people for not believing in islam can be slaved, sold for profit, raped or beheaded, then that section of the book should not be tought or published in America.
Or no place of worship, community center, school… and any other public gathering place should have discriminatory policies, such as ruling the women entering the mosque to cover their hair while men don’t have to, or not allowing the non-muslims to enter, etc.
There are sects within Islam that deliberately divorce themselves from Sharia law. Which is why they call their sects Ahmadi, Alevi, Ismaili, etc – and why they are considered heretics by Sunni and Shi’a (the Alevi are unique in that the Shi’a do recognize the Alevi) It is complicated.
yes, K2K, it is very complicated. if we get going, we will have some surprising allies.
1) The sects I noted have been silenced by organizations like ISNA and CAIR.
2) I think the Al Capone strategy can blow Rauf and Khan out of respectability IF the IRS zeroes in on Daisy’s “church status” claim for her (possibly rent-stabilized) apartment on West 85th Street.
The latest news questioning the sales price to El-Gamal makes me wonder if questionable funds can be traced to an offshore tax haven for the Pomerantz widow and estate, who turned around and became investors with Elzanaty in the Chelsea office building. Maybe the low sales price was to avoid capital gains and/or estate taxes, which would be legal, but not if other funds are under the table, or a tax gimmick was used to make the sale part of a charitable contribution.
I hope someone is trying to connect the dots between estate executor Melvin N Pomerantz (the physicist) and the Chautauqua Foundation, an early supporter of Rauf.
Certainly is obvious that NY AG Andrew Cuomo will not lift a finger, based on his comments yesterday about Elzanaty’s Medicaid and auto insurance fraud problems. I wonder what kind of shell corporations are involved with his investments with El-Gamal.
No one in DC or Albany will do anything, except perhaps Sheldon Silver, until after the elections.
What you advocate is thoughtcrime. Government has no jurisdiction over the thoughts of men, only their actions.
As Ledeen states:
“And there is the possibility of taking away their tax-exempt status if a judge decided that they were dangerous. That status can be canceled if “the organization’s purposes and activities may … violate fundamental public policy.”
Islam does not accept separation of church and state. It places religious law above secular law – that is unconstitutional. NO TAX FREE STATUS FOR MOSQUES until they abrogate the claim that religious law is above secular law!!!
What I took away from this article…we have to get real noisy. Couple problems with this: there does not seem to be enough of us who have educated ourselves (I have not been able to fully educate myself on Islam, but know enough) so, there are not enough of us who care. The American majority (who claim to be Christian) simply won’t stand up and speak out. We have been trained to keep our mouths shut….2nd: Sorry, we have a Muslim in the White House. The majority have not yet admitted to this. To fully understand what this means will mean we will properly deal with this problem….understand, he means to bring America howling to its knees. This is just one way of many he will do this.
Deny them their tax exemptions and their right to Honor Killings and persecute and prosecute each and every violation of the law which all Americans have to abide by. they should have no more rights then true Americans and Holder and Obama should be held responsible for any deviations of the United States Constitution and prevailing laws granted these animals.
Excellent ideas . If there are enough of us on TWITTER and FACEBOOK and our own blogs we will be able to repeat and re word these three ideas.
Obamanism supports this nonsense so there is acceptance of these issues ,defacto.There is a feeling in the nation not to mess with these muslims who act wild. We need to take the issues to the courts and stop such practices and make them dejure.
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These are all valid points and should be implemented – but they are all coming from our end of the spectrum, so to speak. We need to empower people within the Muslim world who think like Zuhdi Jasser and Ayan Hirsi Ali. Imam Rauf may seem like a radical to clear-thinking people in the west, but imams all over the world are preaching anti-semitism, misogyny and global domination as mainstream doctrine.
The west will not be able to de-nazify Islam. Muslims must do it themselves, wherever they live and starting today. They must find a way to make the great leap out of the fifth century or else they and the rest of us are heading for a catastrophic showdown.
we have diametrically opposed solutions;
A) restrict their rights as they are terrorists,
B) enforce the Constitution upon its members and enforce their rights to free speech and other rights enumerated
The choice is clear, Solution B is the only avenue allowed by the Constitution. Restricting the rights of any individual only provides precedent to then restrict your rights. Today its Muslim, tomorrow it is You.
i wish you’d read before venting. “Solution B” has been at the heart of my recommendations since the first day, and it’s in the first paragraph of this blog.
There is a third solution: Recognize that there is no right to subvert the Constitution. Adherents to Islam and Sharia do not “insure domestic Tranquility” and they do not recognize the rights set forth in the 1st and 8th Amendments except when it benefits themselves.
A form where they declare whether or not they are trying to overthrow the State?
Yeah – that’ll work for sure…..
those suggestions would be excellent way to solving the problem.
BUT FIRST, how will you get any of those things done if you have criminals like obama and holder and the entire education system working against you.
We can also advocate for Banning the Veil (and all public mask wearing).
All that is needed is for us to calmly and resolutely state, as a nation and a people, “No”.
No, there won’t be any sharia law anywhere in the US.
No, we won’t tolerate honor killings for any reason
No, you won’t treat your women or anyone else as sub-humans.
No, you’re an American first, just like the rest of us.
No, America will not submit to islam in any form.
If that’s the way you wish to live, fine. Go somewhere else where the society is more to your liking. We love America just the way it is.
And finally, before you falsely accuse us of it, No, we don’t hate you or have an unnatural fear of you. We simply don’t want your values or your way of life to replace ours.
One more item for your list of declarations to Islam – or to any other insane, murderous cultural / political / religious entity:
“Threaten our civilization and yours is forfeit. No matter what the cost. No negotiation, no surrender, no second chances. Only extinction.”
This, I believe, is a message that these medievalists can understand.
hmmm..alot of the same analogies could be applied to the radical american left…
Their “religions” of Enviro for example has many of the same attributes of Radical Islam.
Michael, great ideas, but what media outlet has the stones to publish the names of the radicals, or for that matter, why aren’t the “moderates” publishing the names of these guys and making a nation wide informational blitz. I keep hearing that the radicals are only a small segment of the muslim population yet I see no widespread censoring by the “moderate majority”. As far as the IRS going after the radicals, we have to have a government in place that is not in bed with these radicals. . . until we have that point 3 is moot.
None of your suggestions will be implemented, ever. The liberal left would be outraged and cries of “racist” and “bigot” would be louder than what we’ve heard from them about the GZ mosque. They are afraid of what “peaceful” Muslims are capable of. As Burt Prelutsky says, “Islam is a peaceful religion, and if you don’t believe it, they’ll chop off your head.” We’re all awash in political correctness and denial about what Islam really is–a totalitarian, theocratic, political system in which non-Muslims do not figure in any way.
It would be great if your ideas could work, but the liberal ruling elite would never allow it. The left-wing talking heads on TV–Olberman, Maddow, Matthews, etc., would make mincemeat out of anyone who even suggested the remedies you propose.
Two questions: Why then would anyone appear on their shows to be antagonized? Aren’t there alternatives out there?
As for being called names, take a look at this column by Robert Fulford, especially how it ends: http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/modern+hatred+with+long+pedigree/3453754/story.html
Fourthly, we should ridicule, ridicule, ridicule this ridiculous cult. Using Alinsky tactics.
RULE 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
Yes, ridicule! Check out this hilarious satire by the American Midwest’s own Monty Python: “Undocumented Imam’s Refusal to Perform Interracial Gay Handicapped Wedding Leads to Charges of Racism” by Iowahawk @ http://iowahawk.typepad.com/
First and last two paragraphs: “NEW YORK – Charges of racism, sexism, and religious discrimination filled the air this afternoon outside the just-completed Cordoba House, the gleaming new $100 million 15 story mosque and Islamic cultural center near the ruins of New York’s World Trade Center, following a tense 5-hour standoff prompted by the mosque’s refusal to host a wedding between a lesbian African-American woman and her blind white transgendered partner. . . .
“By late afternoon, federal, state, city, and borough courts reported over 1400 lawsuits filed related to the incident. Mayoral Spokesperson Karen Sternthal said that Bloomberg would be seeking emergency federal funding for an Appelate Judge troop surge to cope with the load, but expressed hopes that a ‘peaceful, mutually agreeable, transfat-free resolution’ could be worked out between all parties.
“‘The good news is that this will be all worked out right here in New York,’ noted Sternthal. ‘And there’s no other place this open minded.’”
When Mr. Ledeen states “all those Koranic proclamations, and the hadiths, about killing infidels, which are enthusiastically promulgated in the radical mosques and the radical schools by the radical imams. That stuff is unacceptable…” he calls to truth the REAL problem with Islam:
ISLAM itself.
Those Koranic proclamations and ahadith about killing infidels are taught in ‘radical’ mosques by ‘radical’ imams, because they are the original ‘radical’ proclamations taught in the original ‘radical’ mosques by the original ‘radical’ imam, Muhammed.
To excise these preachings from Islam is to destroy the canonical foundation of the ‘religion’ and is to reject the ‘holy phophethood’ of Muhammed.
This should make it crystal clear that a ‘religion’ founded by a murdering, decapitating, enslaving, torturing, looting, raping, genocidal terrorist, Muhammed, who in word and deed made ‘radicalism’ the foundational canon of his ‘religion, simply cannot be reformed.
Prime Minister of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan knows this, which is why he stated unequivocally “These descriptions (about moderate Islam) are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.”
Islam cannot be reformed. It can only be submitted to or destroyed.
Islam is leading the world into a global war of catastrophic dimensions. Islam is forcing every great culture in the world into a corner, into an existential fight for survival.
To avert this ISLAMIC WORLD WAR we must destroy Islam before it destroys us. But we don’t need guns, bombs or tanks. We just need the truth.
We can destroy Islam simply by exposing the truth about Muhammad, the doctrine of Islamic Jihad, and the savage 1,400 year history of Islam to the light of day.
There is no need to fabricate, inflate or embellish – we simply need to use Islamic sources, the Koran, the Ahadith, the Sirah Rasul Allah, the preachings of the mullahs, imams and ayatollahs. The savagery and barbarity of Islam is recorded in these texts for the whole world to see, and espoused by Islamic clerics every Friday in the mosques.
We must simply open our eyes and see, tune in our ears and hear.
Never before has a single totalitarian ideology affected the entire global population: 5 billion non-Muslims terrorized daily by Muhammadan Islamic Jihad, and 1.2 billion Muslims enslaved by Muhammadan Islamic doctrine of submission.
The ideological destruction of Islam is nothing less than the greatest HUMAN RIGHTS IMPERATIVE in the history of humanity.
It is the only way we can free 5 billion non-Muslims from Islamic terror, and liberate 1.2 billion Muslims from Islamic slavery.
~ The Infidel Alliance
This is a very strong post. Do you have a website?
heh, i think you’re on it, via pajamas media.
Shine the bright light of truth and honesty on them Islam hates honesty and truth and revels in HYPOCRISY and LIES. Learn about Islam read the Koran if you can stomach all the violence, contradictions, antisemitism, misogyny, mistakes, nonsense and mind numbing repetitiveness it contains. Then look at the aHadith and the Surah and you can be sure that you will know more about Islam than 98% of Muslims who are warned not to question just to blindly accept what the Imam says. Once a Muslim sees you know what you are talking about they will quickly slip in to denial, lies, abuse and then threats and then you KNOW you have exposed them for what they really are. So give them TRUTH and forget the PC moonbats.
Very well stated. But in the mean time the PC moonbats are very much in the way… and one of them is in the White House.
Thank You..
That explains why the genealogy computer servers and internet have been down for over three weeks.
We were told the Church was making changes and updates.
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Its hard to believe that a religion could be so loving, caring, and honorable.
I’ve seen hundreds of videos from various websites of imams addressing their congregations, and have been struck by their lack of religious content, by their overt political commentary (not philosophical critique of issues in light of their faith but outright directives about policy and persons). It has been said that in Islam there is no separation of Mosque and State which is a clear violation of the law for tax-exemption status granted religious institutions.
Deny Islamic charitable giving! Defund Mosques! There is no denial of worship as such, but such measures would no doubt reduce violence and erode fundamentalistic interpretations inimical to reason and the dignity of human persons.
No religious institutions should be allowed tax exempt status.
I don’t know about other faith traditions, but all sects of the Christian faith tradition in Canada, pay taxes.
I believe all religions here in America receive Tax Exempt status. Very unfair to Atheists… and to agnostics like myself.
We must educate ourselves and pass that knowledge on to others about this viscious midieval ideology.
We must attack the source. Mohammed. His life needs to be exposed. Next, we attack the koran ( quran ).
This doctrine of violence has to be stopped.
If one were to contrast mohammed with Jesus, one could make this comparison.
mohammed was an agent of death.
Jesus was an agent of life.
mohammed was a murderer.
Jesus raised the dead.
Separation of Church and State means that sharia law is to be rendered unto Ceasar. The law that sharia is meant to impose and define is too important to secular Americans to be allowed exemption from state regulation on our side of the Pond. Define what is Caesar’s within the law and then the Western Democracies can accept or reject Sharia Law on our legislative votes. Then the Muslims coming to the West must submit to our rules or leave. “Live in my house. Live under my rules.” This is simple enough to me.
I am sure the current DOJ will jump on this right away.
Bring in Janet, no not Napolitano, RENO; She knows how to deal with cults.
That’s all islam is; A cult that has outgrown it’s neighborhood. It just needs to be whacked into submission. (This just happens to be it’s history).
If not eradicated, this ‘religion’, or some other, will take up worship of ‘nucular’ (sic) gods. Ahmadinejad anyone?
If no one puts an end to the ridiculous and insane, the nuts will overtake the asylum, which is what is happening in our Congress, White House, federal government, D.O.J., and military, at this very moment. SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE HAS TO TAKE REAL RESPONSIBILITY AND HAVE A SLEW OF BRAVE DEFENDERS.
In reality, I know this will never happen in my life time. The brown nosing sycophant occupation is exploding with candidates, and professors. And people prostrating for self appointed, spineless, human idols is running a close second.
Until allah is on Dancing with the Stars, American Idol, or Survivor, it will not be politically correct, or permissible, to even set eyes on him. Now isn’t that ridiculous?
Maybe Mormon President Romney’s justice dept would form a task force to prosecute any imam that advocates seditious activities.
If Romney knows the history of his church, he’d be better qualified to deal with the Islamist problem than any other presidential candidate. Huckabee might also be a good one. The Baptists of Arkansas have a long history with the Mormon Church. They’ve erected a monument in their state commemorating The Mountain Meadows Massacre which was perpetrated by Mormons.
Huckabee also has the advantage of having a history of being the voice of reason. Since he doesn’t blindly attack people, you know his criticism is serious. Besides that, no preacher worth his salt would be unfamiliar with eschatology.
There are Immigration and Naturalization Act laws that are being violated constantly and by Imams, etc. These have to do with people immigrating to this country and engaging in activities that undermine the Constitution and the laws of the United States. It has to do with anarchy and dismantling of the laws of this land. It has to do with white slavery; a myriad of Fed laws are being broken to satisfy Islam and this immigration mess we’re in. We’ve got to mega educate ourselves and appeal to wherever and whoever and above all else, keep letting people know Islam is NOT a religion, it’s a social organization(fascist and misogynist) fronting as a religion. Where there is no separation of church and state, how can there be a right to Religious Rights as per the Constitution or Bill of Rights? I don’t get what’s so hard to understand legally. It gets to be so hard to wrap your mind around people we elect who are so mentally disabled.
Stupid is as stupid does, only stupid people believe in stupid religions, and even stupider people tolerate the stupid people because of stupid political correctness, thus they stupidly contribute to their own stupid problems with the stupid people. Stupid is as stupid does.
Enough of these claims of racism and Islamophobia. There needs to be a campaign which clearly links Democrats to this idiotic rubbish.
We’ve had enough and we’re not going to take it any more.
Ridicule is a powerful weapon. We need to be as fearless in laughing at Islam as monty python was at laughing at the churches. Moral courage, not legislation. Also, at the same time forget about the adults but go under the radar to subvert the childrens faith in their “community leaders”.
CAIR, ISNA the Muslim Students’ Assn. and a host of lesser known organizations continue to pound away and scream foul at any perceived insult to Islam.
The current department of justice has shown itself favorable to the crowd at Gitmo. Recently (reportedly) some members of the Muslim Brotherhood were received at the White House. The President of the United States ridiculously informed his audience in June 2009 that…”It is important to note that “if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world”.
And nobody laughed him out of the room.
Then there is the plethora of Bloombergs, Pelosis and a cadre of the clueless like Orrin Hatch who can’t get beyond some vague reference to “religious freedom” on the mosque deal. (today’s NYPost has an article on all kinds of much higher prior offers for the bldg. that was eventually sold at a much lower price to the GZM crowd)
(There is an amoral Hillary Clinton doing the bidding of her President and submitting the AZ law to the review of tyrants at the UN)
The Left is very susceptible to taqiyya. Imam Rauf has made a whole host of public statements that contradict how he presents himself, and Leftists just shrug and continue to label as “haters” anyone who finds Rauf, the mosque and his backers an abomination.
I don’t have a lot of hope for halting these trends anytime soon, given that Muslims and illegal immigrants are the Left’s current favored protected groups.
Well said. We have the means to challenge evildoers and we should use them. The Muslim ladies will thank us, and so will the men who love them.
What’a good barometer for winning? When the “Islamic world” goes from a shame society to a guilt society, like ours. The shame-to-guilt transition seems to be a part of liberalization (today Germans throw people in jail for questioning the Holocaust; Japan and their “warrior code” now puts people in jail for owning a firearm, etc.)… Shame societies will do awful things to uphold their honor, whereas guilt societies sit around loathing themselves due to things previous generations did. They’re pacified. We can expedite the process if we shame them enough. In 50 years, if children in the Middle East can’t stand to think of the thought of what their grandparents’ generation believed and did around the world, then we will have won. Let’s start talking about it in these terms; about it’s inevitability. It’ll freak our enemies out, because deep down they know it’s right. It’s why they wake up in the morning — to resist the natural trajectory of the world.
Off topic, but I have more than once wondered if the reason Obama’s mother stayed in Indonesia is that she was on an FBI Watch list. Her father apparently smoked pot with Frank Davis, and I’ll bet Lolo was a Communist.
On-topic: In skillful movement, you move neither more nor less than required. Intelligent people know that sometimes doing less is doing more. For example, Obama and the Democrats would help our economy most by doing nothing for the next two years, and undoing what they have already done.
In the case of Islam, the example I like to use is that it is like a chair that is supposed to have four supports for balance, but from which one has been cut. It can remain stable for a long time, but it is easily unbalanced.
Perhaps naively, I think we all have within us the spark of basic decency, regardless of what we are taught. The visceral hatred that the radicals show towards the West was inculcated in them, much as a virus is grown in a petri dish. It required watering, a fertile surface, and time. It required, in fact, forgeting some very basic rules of combat, such as never killing Muslims, and never killing civilians.
You are quite right to point to the essential need for combating viciousness rhetorically. More, though, is needed: I think we need to ask of Muslims in this country–and particularly who want to migrate to this country–three basic affirmations.
First, that they reject the use of suicide bombs and car bombs to kill non-combatants in all times and places.
Second, that Israel has the unconditional right to exist, and that those who left during the war that happened 62 years ago have no right to return to claim the homes and land of their grandparents.
Third, that they unconditionally accept the civil law of the United States as the law of the land, now and forever in the future.
This all seems quite reasonable, to me, but through the skillful casuistry it can no doubt be made muddy and ambiguous, as indeed we witness every day.
Off topic, but I have more than once wondered if the reason Obama’s mother stayed in Indonesia is that she was on an FBI Watch list. Her father apparently smoked pot with Frank Davis, and I’ll bet Lolo was a Communist.
On-topic: In skillful movement, you move neither more nor less than required. Intelligent people know that sometimes doing less is doing more. For example, Obama and the Democrats would help our economy most by doing nothing for the next two years, and undoing what they have already done.
In the case of Islam, the example I like to use is that it is like a chair that is supposed to have four supports for balance, but from which one has been cut. It can remain stable for a long time, but it is easily unbalanced.
Perhaps naively, I think we all have within us the spark of basic decency, regardless of what we are taught. The visceral hatred that the radicals show towards the West was inculcated in them, much as a virus is grown in a petri dish. It required watering, a fertile surface, and time. It required, in fact, forgeting some very basic rules of combat, such as never killing Muslims, and never killing civilians.
You are quite right to point to the essential need for combating viciousness rhetorically. More, though, is needed: I think we need to ask of Muslims in this country–and particularly who want to migrate to this country–three basic affirmations.
First, that they reject the use of suicide bombs and car bombs to kill non-combatants in all times and places.
Second, that Israel has the unconditional right to exist, and that those who left during the war that happened 62 years ago have no right to return to claim the homes and land of their grandparents.
Third, that they unconditionally accept the civil law of the United States as the law of the land, now and forever in the future.
This all seems quite reasonable, to me, but through the skillful casuistry it can no doubt be made muddy and ambiguous, as indeed we witness every day.
We should never stop making the point, though, that they have the right to think and worship whatever they want — in this country, at least. J Michael Waller has written some interesting things on how to use mockery and ridicule to fight the enemy.
Yeah, Ridicule works great on people who won’t kill you in the name of Islam and Allah.
I think ridicule will work. We just have to come at them from so many angles and give them so many targets they run out of ammunition….. before they run out of targets.
The enemy needs recruits. Being ridiculed is generally bad for recruiting. Therefore, ridicule should work.
I think going after ‘moderate’ muslims is the right approach. They should be criticized strongly for their backward beliefs. They should also be condemned for remaining silent about violence committed by muslims in the name of islam. If they do not speak out unambiguously against it, I think their status as a religion in the US should be questioned. No religion should tolerate violence. Something missing from your article is the hypocrisy of the left, the press and civil rights groups such as the ACLU and SLPC. They should be the focus of relentless mocking and criticism. Who invented political correctness?
This author is comically misguided on this topic. He doesn’t understand a fundamental truth.
Radical Islam cannot be defeated until the people who have seized control of the US government are defeated.
Let me put it in even stronger terms. The Obama government of radical leftists is currently ALLIED WITH radical Islam. Oh, it’s not formal, but it is certainly true. By all evidence, they have no interest in countering their ally. Examine every action. It really is 100% consistent.
Now, ultimately, the Ruling Class probably plans to confront radical Islam and defeat it, but in the short-term, the enemy of their enemy is their friend. And the enemy of both is us, free Americans. They both view us as the mortal threat that must be defeated first.
And don’t be surprised, should they prevail in destroying the great and free American middle class, to see them employ the only tactic worth pursuing to defeat the Islamists. It’s the same tactic that we will ultimately need to employ, should we prevail in defeating OUR greatest enemy, the Ruling Class – total annihilation.
Everything short of that will fail. Radical Islam isn’t kidding around. They are not going to be persuaded, converted, co-opted, marginalized or out-bred. It may take 50 years, but sometime in the 2000’s, either the West or Islam will be the one left standing. Somehow, I can’t see it being Islam. They are too primitive.
But there is also the issue of China. China will never put up with the school child approach of the West to a mortal enemy. China’s long-term strategy is probably to allow the West and Islam to exhaust each other. But they may become impatient. If they do, they are likely to ally with Islam to attempt to destroy the West, and then turn on Islam.
In any event, by 2100, the world of Islam will be a historical footnote. Not so much because the West and China want to destroy that civilization, but because that civilization is not capable of taking no for an answer.
A very interesting and cynical post. It is my opinion that your Ruling Class is a much more hapless group of Left Wing Loons who seem to be unable to grasp what is in their own best interest… perhaps blinded by their hatred and envy of a more successful Right Wing group. I am not so sure about China. I suspect their financial investments will align them more with the West than with Islam…. unless they start investing to a much greater extent in the Middle East. For now they seem to prefer Western Democracies like the US and Australia. It is a pretty sure bet that the Chinese Communists and the Islamofacists will hate each other…. for all the right reasons. Islam’s best chance for success, which you’ve touched on, is their ability to out breed us. The West has freed its women and now the women want little to do with their men. Muslim women, under Islam, have no choice but to submit… to their religion and to their men. The sooner this battle is settled the better. Time is on their side.
The front lines in the battle against Islam in America is Muslim immigration. Everything else is pointless unless Muslim immigration is stopped by Congress on the grounds that the ideology of Islam is a threat to the Constitution like Communism or Fascism.
Keep up on the daily world news and op-ed articles on Islam pro and con free with the Historyscoper, the most available in one stream:
http://tinyurl.com/islamwatch
As a Christian, I believe in the depths of my soul that the best way to “fight them” is to love, show forgiveness and share the gospel with them. And the Lord will bring many of them into His kingdom as He has promised. [Revelation 5:9-10]
Yes, we should speak out against and confront the radicals’
methods and words. Yes, we should prosecute those who do wrong.
But, to only do these things and not extend a hand of friendship
(even when they show no interest) is to continue the kind of
behavior we don’t like that we see in them.
We can do all these things…. what you advocate and what others here have posted. In the end we may still have to fight.
Why don’t we just KEEP THEM OUT OF THE UNITED STATES?
Probably too late for that. Even if we could close off immigration to Muslims, what would we do with the millions who are already here. No, I think the extremists need to be ridiculed on a world wide stage. Hopefully the silent moderate ones will see this and silently stop being Muslims.
h! Mr. Ledeen!
while I agree with all your points, but point number one is the most important.
point two is very important as well. often I wonder how these people get in. there is state sponsor treorism such as Iran and state sponsered financung of tereosim such a saudi Arabia.
99% of all radicl trorists are:
Pakistanis
Saudis
Yemenis. Period.
everone from these three countris coming here should be scrutinize.
What about the radical Shiites of Iran? And those in Iraq? Are the Taliban of Afghanistan not extremist? The Palestinians of Hamas, and Hezbollah under Nezrollah in Lebanon? Syria? Lybia? Turkey? There are 57 Islamic dominated countries in this world and Islamic extremists exist in all of them… and many of them find there way into America…. many of them with the help of our president and State Dept.
Radical Islam won’t be confronted until the Dems are out of power.
Regrettably, we will doubtless never adequately address the problem that is Islam, until every one of the 1960s Hippie Radicals turned politician/newsman/activist/media figure expires or mercifully retires.
That is to say, we, as a nation, have been hag-ridden by these morons and their – always THEIR – ideas of social justice and law and culture and what have you. As if there can never be any other point of view or response to events. And, of course, we all know what happens when you challenge these idiot Juvenile adults, with their nasty attitudes, my-way-or-the-highway ideas, their penchant for demonizing anyone who disagrees with them.
THEY, Michal, are also “Monsters.”
An entire swath of our nation’s path through history perverted and warped by these jackasses and their ideas.
And I do know this. I am the kid brother of three of these types. To this day, I dare not challenge their little twisted ideas about the world around them, because I get precisely what we see in the news when someone challenges them. The snide commentary; the disgusted looks; the “how dare you challenge our fine ideas, which are obviously right.” The slurs, the nasty words, the accusations of being a “Facist” or a “Nazi.”
All for daring to have a differing world view than they do.
So how do we ever address Islam honestly and rationally, when those yahoos always have to get their noses into the debate and forever pervert it into their foolish ideas?
Sorry, that was a bit of a diatribe, I admit. Oh, and I do not fault the 1960s generation as a whole by any means; only this small subset of Americans, who somehow have been led to believe that they are the oracle of Delphi in all things.
These are excellent suggestions. They are fair. They are effective. They target the problems. Thanks so much for this article.
We can not expect the IRS under the Islamophile Obama to do any such audit on Imam Rauf. If our cheap labor needs were not being fulfilled by Mexico we would have an even more severe problem of Muslim demographics much as Europe has , except for a less geograpical proximity the Mohammedan nations have to us of course. In future when we have a more American administration serious action should be taken to raze the blame America first State Department and remove from them the ability to issue glad handedly all the various forms of visas to these vipers they have heretofore been so willing to take to our breast .
Americans need also to reject Planned Parenthoods siren song of non breeding as demographics is destiny, at least in terms of national identity , as Europe is sadly finding out . This applies to to Mohammedans in spades , as well as to the cultural , socialogical, and national security threat we face from the south . Albeit the southern threat is more of a lay down hand .
It is an acursed thing to be ruled over by foreignors.
Mr. Ledeen:
Islam is in desperate need of reformation as it is a 7th century code of behavior rather than just another means of a personal relationship with G-d. For the vast majority of Muslims this code of behavior very much applies to life in today’s world. The literal interpretation of the Koran and its code of ethics is very much in the MAINSTREAM of current Islamic beliefs. The dilemma with Islam is not just in its reformation which would make it a completely internal Muslim issue, rather it is constant danger of 21st century technology, tactics and weaponry being used to further a 7th century Islamic agenda of conquest and the sanctioned murder and subjugation of those who are different. This world’s collision course with Islam seems more and more to resemble the only too recent war against National Socialists, Imperialistic Japanese and some petty dictators allied with them. However, this is not 1939 and Islam is not a national but a transnational political-religious ideology. I can’t even fathom what a solution to Islam would be- I just don’t think it would be as easy or simple as what you prescribed in your article.
“Then there are all those Koranic proclamations, and the hadiths, about killing infidels, which are enthusiastically promulgated in the radical mosques and the radical schools by the radical imams. That stuff is unacceptable, and we need to identify the imams who say it, and the textbooks that print it, and raise our voices against it. Even if all the courts in America said that they have every right to say those things, we are entitled to attack — verbally — those who preach them.”
I think your conclusion is little flawed, because it does not go far enough. Sure, we should publicly expose those who teach such things, but we should argue that such teachings, although protected as “freedom of speech” and “freedom for religion”, are not protected as “inciting to riot”.
If someone says it is OK to kill me, then I have the right of self-defense to kill them and I don’t have to wait for them to actually attack me first.
One potential ally in this struggle is Imam Rauf. His “Shariah Project” involves developing a rating system for governments, so that the extent to which they are “shariah-compliant” can be represented by a single number. It should be interesting when he publishes his system, and everyone can clearly see that Moderate Islam gives a grade of F- to the US Constitution.
In the long run, once we have pumped all the oil out from under them, the ‘Zlims will go back to abusing their goats and maiming each other. But as long as we keep sending a gazillion or two to Saudi and Iran every year for oil, we can expect them to keep sending their representatives to subvert and kill us. And, of course, pretty soon they will all have nukes. I think Rauf may have an overly optimistic view of the long-term prospects for lower Manhattan real estate. It is worth recalling that the cannons which broke the walls of Constantinople were developed in Europe.
People, leaders and politicians, aren’t criticizing islam because they are AFRAID of islam. Just like (most) are afraid to defend America in any other sense. Most have no military experience. Most have no principle that they will not abandon for money or personal convenience.
Our national principles, the Constitution, is a good example. As a government those principles are SUPPOSED to be inviolable. Even a child knows we have no politician or leader that believes that to be remotely true today.
Today those principles are used as tools and levers to motivate and manipulate the ever decreasing number of citizens that believe in them. As a society that is abandoning its own principles of government and social structure, we are dying. Just Rome did. They didn’t see their demise on the horizon either. Nor, I’m certain, did the Aztecs, Mayans, Egyptians of old, and other great civilizations.
We have lost our way as we have lost our integrity. And we will die as surely as the Sun rises because of it. Cowardice and arrogance are the make up of moral character now, replacing courage and will.
We don’t remember. We don’t care. And we can’t learn. You have to accept it, there is no alternative. We are the dissipating smoke of a once raging fire. The sad remains of what could have been.
stupid Stupid STUPID IDEAS! What kind of warrior decides to let the enemny inside your lines before challenging them! Bozo. The real place they should be challenged is in the world where they take our tax dollars. Are we really paying $100 million to rebuild a mosque in Tanzania? Are we really supporting the Afghan Constitution which calls for Islam to be supreme? WHY? The three things that have made this great democracy so stable are the First Amendment, Second Amendment, and Article 1, section 2 (House elections, ie. tax man, EVERY two years). We should export freedom by assigning eligibility for ANY tax dollars to their support of these ideals and we’ll hear freedom ring around the world. Or…we can continue to train Saudi engineers and buy Afghan tribal leaders while we have “change” left to do it.
It really is all about the OIL.
We’re like the drug addict who blames the dealer for all his problems.
Energy independence NOW!
It needs to be made clear that Mormon proxy baptisms for the deceased do not automatically make the person baptized a “Mormon” or a member of the LDS Church.
Theologically, Mormon belief is that the proxy baptism merely offers the deceased individual the CHOICE of whether to accept the ordinances or not. So even though I have done baptisms on some of my ancestors in Germany from the 1700s, that does not mean any of them actually accepted the ordinances and became Mormons.
You know why . . .this is WHERE!
Excellent column and rich debate…
BUT
nothing will change and nobody will do anything to stop the jihadists.
Because the idiot elitists are convinced, as are the marxist subversives, that they can ride the tiger of islam to destroy the West, and the elitists are very powerful and they control large parts of the machine of the government, all the university, all the media except the free internet.
The same forces have worked to destroy Europe.
We cannot start this fight if we do not diagnose what is happening.
We must understand that the puppeteers that we see, the soros, the obamas, are not the real masters of the game.
We must understand that colossal amounts of money buy colossal amounts of politicians, pseudo-journalists, and pseudo-intellectuals.
The war against the Traditional West has gone on for centuries now, and for the first time it seems that the forces of chaos could win.
We must pray to reach the serenity and the peace that will allow us to become a true force in history.
The force of Truth and Freedom.
Those who should have been that force have betrayed their duty and have followed the power of the dark side.
Sherab Zangpo (bravo on the great name): King George had colossal amounts of money. For a while.
Three points:
- thank you for always taking the time to discuss the comments
- thank you about the name (although, even if I do have a “real” name, I must say I didn’t choose the “pseudonym” either, I received it in a regular religious ceremony, and I will add for the curiosity of the Readers that it is the Tibetan version of “PrajnaParamita”, “Perfection of Wisdom”)
- third and more to the point…King George’s times’ elitists were still on the right side of history…while today the powers that should guard our gates seem to be dangerously undecided about their role (in America) or directly involved with riding the islamist tiger (in Europe).
Which Western politician would today dare write the pages that Churchill wrote about islam ? And it is not matter of personal “courage”…it is matter of believing or not in the superiority of Freedom (which of course today can’t even be mentioned…nothing must be said to be “superior” or better than anything else, in a blasphemous misunderstanding of “tolerance”).
Thank you for the debate.
sherab zangpo: the best of us today are in the military. have a look at them; some are extraordinary and many have already engaged in this fight. try mattis, odierno for starters.
I really appreciate your post. I’m just curious… what religion are you?
I’m getting ready to celebrate Rosh Hashanah and then, a week later, fast for 26 hours to pray for forgiveness and a good year in the Book of Life.
Thank you Michael… for letting me know that. You have generated quite a discussion here. Most interesting and encouraging. I wish we could get some intelligent opposition to chime in. I know they’re out there. I was also trying to get Sherob Zangpo to tell me hers. She mentioned something about Tibet.
Michael– These are good suggestions. Also how about offering classes at universities that look at Islam critically. Encouraging creation of art by Americans from Muslim backgrounds that explores Islam critically…(I know from experience that the leftist cultural gate keepers won’t allow this to happen…)
I think the Stoning of Sorya has been an eye opening experience for many Americans, partly because it was initiated by an Iranian director and actress..
yeah, the academy is a major battlefield in all this.
The intolerance of the left is nowhere more evident than it is in American Universities.
Everything that can be understood about how to deal with ordinary bullies applies to how we deal with the islamists among us, but with more seriousness and more urgency, because their end-game is far more dispositive: Forget about the islamists for a moment, and consider this simple mechanism: Bullies persist only as long as candidates for intimidation are still available and willing to make “small” and/or “understandable” and/or “charitable” concessions in a misguided attempt to accommodate or appease those who make unwarranted claims. For instance, all you need is some “sensitive, soft-spoken and well-mannered” university president to grant a request for time slots in the swimming pool schedule to be alloted exclusively for muslim women because swimming suits as we understand them in the West are not compatible with the standard of modesty mandated by their faith.
Here is how the devil gets his way in this seemingly innocuous scenario: The claim of fairness towards some minority will then be made at the detriment of everyone else’s convenience. The claim is made, which is only mistake number one, but then it is acquiesced to, which is mistake number two. From this point, the muslim students receive a special privilege, granted to them on grounds of fairness, whereas it should have been denied, precisely on grounds of fairness.
We like to say “When in Rome, do as Romans do”, don’t we? So, why should we encourage immigrants from muslim societies to go by “When in America, do as Mohammed is supposed to have said”? This is alright as far as faith goes, but it is not acceptable beyond the perimeter of religious practice in a free society, where it is understood that the exercise of one’s freedom is not to infringe on someone else’s own exercise of freedom. Remember, immigration without assimilation is a failed immigration. Otherwise, what is the meaning of “E Pluribus Unum”, and what is ultimately the meaning of America? For instance, consider the mafia, as a striking example of some minority group (mostly Italian immigrants in this particular case) with a notion of an internal rule superior to that of the rest of the nation. How is that for failed assimilation? The FBI finally put the mafia out of business, but it took a lot of effort and a lot of time, and the mafia did not even have the ambition of subverting America at large.
Are we really doing a favor to the muslim women who want to enjoy swimming, but exclude other folks from sharing the pool with them? Wouldn’t they be better off learning the difference between exposing some skin and provoking irresponsible behavior of others? Why should you come to America and refuse to learn the personal responsibilites that come with personal freedom? One can say “The poor young woman is forbidden by her relatives from exposing some skin while enjoying the common swimming pool”? What’s wrong with confronting the relatives for their disrespect for America? Did they come to America because they were forced to? They will persist on claiming unwarranted privileges for as long as we fail to confront them for the affront in the first place. This what you do with ordinary bullies, and it works. This is what we must do with the islamists, and it will work too. We just need to be proud Americans, instead of mindlessly indulging those who make inappropriate claims, all the while hiding hiding our cowardice behind a curtain of political correctness.
When I read posts like yours, I have hope that the intelligence and ability to articulate a strong message is very much on our side. A side that would oppose the advance of the Islamist and their desire to dominate our free society. Thank you.
why are they exempt from committing crimes and allowed to interfer with other peoples’ rights because they are a religion? I think we are afraid of them. It’s going to take retired military and police to take them on. They’re forceful and not intimitated and brutal and we’ll get wiped out if we don’t wake up or we’ll be put to sleep for good.
they are not exempt from committing crimes. but many of the things they say or do are objectionable, while not criminal. some years ago the American Nazis were permitted to march in Skokie, Ill. but there was significant outcry and they were forced to a) move their demonstration and b) endure public humiliation.
That’s exactly what needs to happen in the case of Islamist Shariah. Let them march. Without a reassuring message they will be shunned. They can build their Mosque but, by doing so, they will harm themselves. The Moderate Muslims can continue their silence to their own peril. Until they speak up clearly and assure Americans they disapprove of violence and oppression, they will be mistrusted… and for good reason. Rauf has discredited himself. He is not the spokesperson they need. Neither is O’Bama. There are a few out there who deserve to be heard and are starting to be. Time will tell if they can rise to the top of their moderate Masses… and provide the message that will earn them a welcome into the cultural fabric of America. I hope it will happen, but I have my doubts.
Islamic institutions need to be treated like the KKK. When one of their followers committed acts of violence, the were subject to huge law suits. Make them pay millions for every honor killing, for intimidation and threats, and for fraud when they claim to be peaceful in English but call for sharks in Arabic.
EXCELLENT TACTIC !!! Suing is a time honored American tradition that has proven to be very effective. Allah is not akbar ! And the followers of Allah are stupid.
Nice ideas, as someone mentioned above – try to make any of them real. The State Dept, media, university Presidents, CEOs will see to it that most of them are quashed, pure and simple. There is already partial and de-facto implementation of UN ‘laws’ about hate speech (against Islam) in every Western country.
If the MSM could somehow, be restored to an earlier level of objectivity, one that more accurately reflected true American concerns, I believe the Muslim problem would quickly be resolved. By voting!
Once you are aware of Muslim’s “religiously” sanctioned “Holy deception” tactics of Takiyya (dissimulation i.e. lying) and Kitman (withholding information, partial truth) that Islamic practice says Muslims should–and sometimes must–use in dealing with all unbelievers, if by using these deceptive tactics Muslims assure the safety or advancement of an individual Muslim or of Islam—and after 9/11, after the Seattle Jewish Federation terror attack and those killed and wounded, after Major Hasan’s terrorist massacre at Ft. Hood, after the Times Square Bomber’s attempt to kill and maim thousands of Americans, and the rising number of many lesser known terrorist attacks and attempts by Muslims here in the U.S.–how can you, thereafter or ever again, accept that anything a Muslim might say, any oath they might make, any agreement they might sign, any life they might seem to be leading, any “persona” they might present, is true and real, something you can rely on, is anywhere near “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.” Moreover, how can you—based on “the evidence on the ground” i.e. precisely no statements, no counter-demonstrations–rely on our deathly silent “ peaceful, moderate Muslims” here in the U.S. and around the world, on who they claim–or who we desperately wish them–to be, and on the hope that they will somehow rise up, and prevail over their more activist Jihadi coreligionists.
Once you read of Muhammad’s extraordinarily ruthless and bloody conduct in building the power of Islam, and, moreover, of his command that agreements and truces (hudna) with the enemies of Islam are only to be temporary–ten years at most—and are to be entered into only when Islam is weak and for the purposes of deceiving the enemy, of giving Muslims time to rearm and to strengthen their forces before they resume their attack, how can you honestly believe that any Muslim will keep any commitment they might have made with an “unbeliever,” especially in perpetuity?
It is not just a few verses here or there in the Qur’an, or one or two Hadiths among many thousands, or a sentence or two in 1,400 years of prolific writings by Muslim authorities (written to lay out their methods and conduct in detail, and to show how their conduct was directed and sanctified by the Qur’an, the example of Muhammad, and the commands of Allah and Islam, as they prosecuted Islam’s campaigns of terror and slavery against all unbelievers over the last 1,400 years, and their conquest, domination and/or occupation of a good part of the Earth) that command all Muslims to wage unceasing Jihad against all unbelievers until the Muslim’s “House of Islam” subverts, intimidates, dominates, and finally conquers and devours our unbeliever’s “House of War”; this is the main, unbending, eternal, central command and goal of Islam.
As the extraordinarily famous and eminent 11th century Sufi, jurist, and government official al-Gazali, said by some to be “the Muslim who was second only to Muhammad,” wrote about how to treat “dhimmis” i.e. unbelievers conquered, made into second class citizens, and forced to pay “protection money” i.e. Jizya to their Muslim overlords, and about the Jihad:
“[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…[In land where fruits and nuts from trees are a vital source of nutrition, and shade] One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…
[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]…on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [the dhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]… They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle[-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue….”
As the Barbary Pirates representative, Abd Al-Rahman, the Ambassador of Tripoli, told Samuel Adams and Thomas Jefferson back in 1785, the reason that U.S. sea trade– absolutely essential if the new nation of the United States, which had not harmed the Pirates in any way, was to survive—was being attacked, our merchant ships captured or destroyed, their cargoes stolen, and crew and passengers sold into slavery–was because:
“it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their [Muslim’s] right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.” (http://tinyurl.com/6xpmhr)
As a 1991 Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan) strategy document, introduced without objections as to its authenticity or contents in the recent Holy Land Foundation terrorism funding trial put it, in our modern day:
“The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions.”
The message of Islam 1,400 years, or 1,000 years, or 200 years ago, or today, does not vary, it is the same.
The scholars at the Center for the Study of Political Islam estimate that the majority of the Qur’an—more than 65%–deals with us “unbelievers,” (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/02/the-study-of-political-islam.html) and in verse after verse the Qur’an vilifies and reviles us unbelievers, and commands Muslims to wage an eternal Jihad against us, until we are either converted, subjugated or killed. Muslims and their agents and allies employ the deceptive tactics of Takiyya and Kitman in pointing out the more peaceful Quranic verses from early in Muhammad’s career in Mecca, and ignoring the more xenophobic, aggressive, and bloodthirsty verses that Muhammad “received” at Medina, in the latter part of his prophetic career, later verses that Muslim religious scholars say (although Muslims won’t tell us so) “abrogate” (naskh), nullify and supersede all of the earlier, peaceful Meccan verses; the last verse received, verse 9, the bloodthirsty and aggressive “Verse of the Sword” :
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)…..” Surah 9:5
alone supposedly abrogating more than 120 or more earlier, peaceful verses (see http://www.islamreview.com/articles/quransdoctrine.shtml and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm and http://www.carlisle.army.mil/DIME/documents/20080107_Coughlin_ExtremistJihad.pdf ).
Given these facts, this situation, how, then, can you separate the sheep from the wolves, the good Muslims from the bad, the Jihadis or potential Jihadis, from what from outward appearances appear to be “peaceful, moderate Muslims? The answer is, you can’t.
If we are to protect ourselves from the menace and violence of Islam and Muslims, demonstrated for all to see—if they wish to see–over a good portion of the world throughout the last 1,400 years, and evident all around the world today (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) , the very real existential threat they represent to our Western “unbeliever” civilization, to our freedom, and to our persons, the good must unfortunately suffer along with the bad, and harsh measures will have to be taken, and some of the common sense ways to deal with Muslims would be by:
Banning any further immigration by Muslims into the U.S., (we used to ban immigration to the U.S. by Nazis and Communists and Anarchists, on the grounds that their ideologies and actions were a threat to our national security, why not Muslims?) and by making it very easy for Muslims to return to the “House of Islam,” but very hard for them to stay here, in what they term our “House of War.”
By reclassifying Islam as an ideology and not a religion, thus making Islam ineligible for all the protections and immunities and privileges given to legitimate religions.
By subjecting Muslims and their Mosques and other institutions and organizations to the strictest observation and scrutiny, and by closing offending Mosques, and deporting any Muslims if they violate any of our laws—particularly our laws dealing with things like terrorism, terrorism funding, weapons possession, polygamy, welfare fraud, tax fraud, domestic abuse, immigration fraud, etc., etc.
By not giving Muslims an inch; and by making it unmistakably clear to Muslims that it is they who must accommodate to our Judeo-Christian society and its customs and laws, not we who must make “accommodations” i.e. to “give way,” to “submit” to Islam and its Shari’a law.
The attempt by Muslims to plant their “Triumphal Mosque of the Nineteen Martyrs” at Ground Zero is the current example of their increasing attempts to first insinuate, to use pressure and intimidation, then to force their ways, their customs, their Shari’a law into and to eventually have them dominate our culture and civilization, and to crowd us and our ways out, to make our “unbeliever,” our Christian, and Jew, Buddhist, and Atheist share of the “public square” here in the United States smaller and smaller—how will we like Muslim’s triumphal “Call to Prayer,” so beloved of Barack Hussain Obama (watch the whole video including Obama’s Freudian slip at the end about “my Muslim faith” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuXxtg4M_z8) –ringing out, five times each day, over the “hallowed ground” of 9/11?–to use our freedom and tolerance, our naïveté, our lack of “civilizational confidence,” our fear, our legal system, and Islam’s allies among the Left against us.
Muslim’s progress toward their goal of subversion, domination and conquest of all unbelievers is much further advanced in Europe than it is here in the U.S. Here is a video illustrating the rising level of brazen intimidation that we will increasingly face if we allow Muslims to continue their colonization, infiltration and attempted subversion, their attempts to dominate and eventually conquer the United States (http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/ scroll down a few to the “Islamization of Paris).
Thanks you, Seth.
Every Friday, and contrary to French law, there are massive prayer demonstrations in the streets of Paris.
Coupled with some 751 zones urbaines sensibles scattered around France, (Muslim controlled areas no longer really subject to French authority) and it looks like Islamicization is well underway.
Video: Auust 2,2010
Could we just start condemning polygamy?
Where do you think this cannon fodder comes from? It’s the mathematically inviolate result of extra, useless men who will never find a wife except through conquest.
We had our own homegrown litmus test in Eldorado TX and a polygamous society with uncanny similarities arose with: poverty, wife and child beating, hatred of outsiders, abandoning extra boys, child marriages, incest/inbreeding to name a few social dysfunctions.
Why won’t academics, media or religious leaders address this sick family structure? The subject can be addressed without naming the religion that most espouses it. Yes it would be vilified by the left but what about the duty to “break the cycle of violence” and “defend the rights of women” or even “save young teenage boys from being dumped as extranneous”.
I think the answer is that, in good “Animal Farm” fashion, all “family structures” are equal nowadays…
The problem with all of the various solutions presented by commenters here is, of course, one of enforcement.
There are already laws on the books against “sedition,” yet, Muslim Imams and individual Muslims, in calling and working for the triumph of Islam in the United States, in slogans on their threatening signs, are advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government i.e. sedition, yet they are not prosecuted. In past times and recently, too, the U. S. government has acted vigorously to stamp out polygamy—which is a crime–among Mormons and other groups who say their religion believes polygamy to be OK, yet authorities look the other way when it is Muslims practicing polygamy, and instead of prosecuting Muslims who practice polygamy, they just pay out more and more social welfare payments to Muslim’s various “cousins” and their many children. There are certainly many laws on the books against assault and murder, yet we see the growing number of reports of Muslims beating or killing their wives and daughters in “honor killings’ but such killings are covered up and/or they are not prosecuted, or treated as lesser crimes or, as recently happened, we have things like a judge in New Jersey ruling (luckily reversed on appeal) that since Islam says wives must not refuse sex to their husbands, if a Muslim wife refuses and the husband forces her and beats her, he is not committing a crime since he believes Islam permits this (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/sharia-in-new-jersey-muslim-husband-rapes-wife-judge-sees-no-sexual-assault-because-husbands-religio.htm); I wonder if the same kind of thinking will eventually be extended to Muslims who participate in “honor killings.”
Major Nidal Hasan, whose business card announced to all that he was “a soldier of Allah,” carried out an obvious act of Muslim terrorism when he yelled “Allahu Akbar (i.e. Allah is the greatest) as he slaughtered 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded another 30 more, yet, the Army’s 86 page report on this “incident” mentions him not at all, nor does it mention Islam even once, and DOD’s report on this “incident” chooses to see this massacre as an outbreak of “workplace violence.”
Thus, unless those in authority are willing to recognize Muslim calls for the overthrow of the United States government and its replacement by Islam and Shari’a law as sedition, are willing to recognize Muslim terrorist attacks for what they are, are willing to look for and to prosecute crimes by Muslims—crimes for which political correctness, timidity and their religion has given them a “pass” that none of us unbelievers, regardless of our religion, would ever get–we will be unable to deal with this growing threat.
Seth,
You have written two exceptional posts here. Your recommendations of “How to Fight Them” are the most aggressive, and not likely to be adopted ……until the next spectacular terrorist attack… which I suspect is coming soon. It’s too bad thousands of innocents will have to die again first.
The Polygamy issue is illustrative of how far we have to go, in dealing with just one aspect of the Islamification of America. Although we see polygamists trot out their seemingly happy plural wives on Oprah, the reality of polygamy, as it is practiced among the fundamentalist Mormons (very different from the mainstream Mormons) amounts to the slavery of women… pure and simple. I know… I have this in my family background and have studied it extensively. Yet government enforcement agencies in Texas, and elsewhere, generally take a hands off approach lest they subject themselves to attack by the media and massive litigation (This happened in spades in Arizona… and more recently in Texas). Utah has decided to tolerate it (not that they want to) because they don’t want 80,000 children from polygamist families dumped onto the State’s foster parent programs… which is what would happen if they enforced the law. Instead they pay through the nose to their ADC (Aid to Dependent Children) programs. As a result of this hands off policy, the fundamentalist Mormons are now a faster growing religion than is the Mother LDS Church (percentage wise). Muslim polygamy, though it is being practiced here, is not even on this country’s radar screen. There are hard decisions that need to be made. Harsh tactics need to be employed to stop the spread of these pernicious religious tumors that are growing in our country. So far our leaders are failing us miserably.
We no longer prohibit Communists or Nazi’s from entering our country (someone please correct me if I’m wrong on this). Due to the multiculturalists and the politically correct crowd, sedition laws are condemned by the media and no longer enforced by our courts (thank the ACLU). Nazi’s have been defeated and marginalized throughout the world. Communists (and their Socialist sisters) are alive and well… and are licking their chops right here in America. Let them. Their policies have failed wherever and whenever they’ve been tried. They will fail again. Islam and Shariah Muslims are a growing threat that must be stopped. They are a greater threat than the Nazi’s or the Communists ever were.
Even better than some of Michael’s specific suggestions would be if he and other well-known ‘names’ such as Dan Pipes, Ralph Peters and others fully came out on the threat posed. This site is still afflicted with political correctness, refusing to post anything by the likes of Spencer and Geller, and including articles which make points of denouncing such people as, basically, crazy extremists. However, to do so carries both personal and professional risk, and also to some extent requires that you renounce previous bodies of work. Yet it’s possible. Folks like Bernard Lewis have been willing to say, in effect, ‘my earlier predictions of moderation from the star and the crescent proved wrong, now I’m officially pessimistic.’ But for most this is too hard.
Yet look at the GZ Mosque and the triumphalist memorial planned for Shanksville, PA. It should be clear enough by now that Spencer and Geller are essentially right and the ‘moderates in Islam must win the day types’ are essentially wrong. What we see instead are personal attacks – ‘Pam Geller is a racist.’ She supports European fascists, etc. Well, I am sure she has made errors, but dismissing her and Spencer, etc., on that basis is a copout.
Iran itself is evidence that once a country is Islamized, leaving that condition is extremely difficult. For thirty years that awful gov’t has visited nightmares on people inside and outside the country. Dr. Ledeen would have us all wait while the ‘green revolution’ cleans things up – and Iran goes nuclear. It’s not acceptable, and it won’t happen that way, but acknowledging the bravery of the Spencer-Geller types is the first step to admitting that the restoration of decent gov’t in Iran may just not happen, period.
NO. I would not have us wait a minute. what do you think “faster, please” means, anyway? i have been calling on the USGovt to help the IRanian democratic revolution for something like 20-25 years.
Tolerance with Muslims is a one way street.
When they get on their knees five times a day in these mosques these so called prayers are nothing but hate speech. They are cursing you and praying for your death.
This constant drum beat of hate in their mosques and schools is how they turn out so many radicals.
I like your ideas, traditional, legal, thoughtful, but I think adding number 4 would make a more diverse but salient statement. #4. Do a reverse 9/11 on Mecca, during the Hajj–a drone 747 loaded with pig carcasses and tons of c-4 on a proximity fuse should do nicely. Perhaps an NGO, Habitat For Humanity, with some Federal front money could buy some property adjacent to Mecca’s “ground zero” and apply to the King to build an ecumenical cathedral and synagogue, in the interest of developing cross cultural understanding and respect for the tragedy. Of course, the Saudi locals will be bigoted and object, but sometimes you have to be thoughtless and symmetrical in the course of developing human relationships. As the psychologists say, mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery.
How about a “What would Mo do?” range of t-shirts with pictures of various stonings and beheadings? You would have to be brave to wear that one in London or anywhere in Europe.
I used to read Michael Ledeen regularly especially when it came to Iran, but as time went on he stayed in the same place while I moved on. In other words, I learned about Islam and had to move on because it became more and more obvious to me that he didn’t know what he was talking about.
Indeed, this is one of the first articles of Ledeen’s I’ve read in several years, and his ignorance and naivety with respect to Islam blows my mind away. Michael, do yourself and your readers a big favor, go on a crash course to learn Islam by reading books written by Robert Spencer, Bat Ye’or, Andrew Bostom, and many others and then spend a couple of hours a day at jihadwatch.org for a couple of months watching the global jihad manifest itself on a daily basis. I mean how can you purport yourself to be an authority on Iran when it is obvious that you don’t have the first clue about Islam which seriously impairs your understanding?
What Islam is in reality is a theo-political totalitarian ideology that seeks to subjugate the world via the imposition of Sharia as its main goal, and as such it is clear that it isn’t protected by the free exercise clause of the first amendment. I mean you can’t dissect Islam and take only a tiny part of it, while you deny and ignore the biggest part of it in order to circumvent the constitution, you must take Islam in totality for what it really is, and when you do, it couldn’t be clearer that it isn’t protected by the first amendment of the constitution or any other amendment for that matter.
I mean for 13 years Muhammad preached Islam in Mecca and in all that time he attracted a mere 150 followers. However, after the Hirja, Muhammad’s migration from Mecca to Medina, Muhammad turned to jihad and politics and that is when Islam really took off. Hence, when Islam was just a religion alone, it was a dismal failure. However, when Muhammad turned to jihad and politics then all of a sudden Islam became wildly successful.
As a matter of fact, the first day of the Islamic calendar was set on the first day of the Hirja to mark the time when Islam made its miraculous transformation from the realm of religion to the realm of politics. Therefore, it is clear that if it weren’t for politics and jihad Islam would have been a dismal failure, as it never would have ever survived the life of Muhammad. Thus, Islam today is far more a theo-political totalitarian ideology than it is a religion, and anyone who claims otherwise clearly doesn’t know what he or she are talking about.
Therefore, it is time for Americans and Europeans to stop looking at Islam as a religion and to begin looking at Islam as a theo-political totalitarian ideology that seeks to subjugate the world via the imposition of Sharia as its main goal and as such again it isn’t protected by the free exercise clause of the first amendment of the constitution.
keep the compliments flowing, brightens up the day.
For how to fight Islam please read Phyllis Chesler’s Pajama Media article today, Ten Points to Save the West And A 28th Constitutional Amendment. In it she includes Geert Wilders’ 10 point plan to save the West from being jihadically overrun and also a pretty cool 28th amendment.
Moreover, here is a good informational youtube describing three things about Islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded
Watch it. It’s very good and packed with information.
How about a little inside help?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-09-08/get-over-the-quran-burning/
I agree with most of the comments posted here, but take issue with saying the religion violates the constitution. The only people who can violate the constitution are the 500 or so people in congress that it is is written for.
The religion might violate the inalienable rights that people are born with, and that the constitution says congress cannot take away, but to say islam is violating the constitution only shows lack of understanding of whose action that document is restricting.
The test of violation used to be based on proving state action. IOW, the state can be shown to be involved in the rights violation. That test which IMO was overbroad anyway, is thrown out the window as of late. Islam isn’t congress, and Islam cannot make law. Therefore islam cannot violate the constitution.
Michael Ledeen,
I apologize for the bluntness, but sometimes people need to be shocked into action. My criticism was constructive and not intended to be personal, and I hope you take it that way.
yomoma: if you don’t like it here, don’t hang around. if you have something constructive to say, please do. but don’t stick your nose in, just to vent.
Mr. Leeden,
May I suggest Nicholas Kristof’s New York Times column today(Sunday NYT 9/12/10). He seems to imply that describing the Mideast as “barbaric” is extreme. However, I have offered the following comment to the NYT as a rebuttal:
Is the Muslim world “barbaric”? Well that’s exactly what the United Nations concluded in a study conducted in 2002 on why the Middle East is not progressing and remains in the Dark Ages. Under the joint auspices of the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) and the Arab Fund for Economic and Social Development a published report, Arab Human Development Report 2002 (Creating Opportunities for Future Generations), diagnosed human development in 22 Arab countries in a forthcoming and even blunt manner. The reasons cited were threefold: 1) “Freedom deficit” 2) Human/educational Deficit and my favorite: 3) Female deficit. All are rather self-explanatory. But the fact the Mideast excludes 1/2 its population – the female population does nothing but keep the Mideast “barbaric” (meaning “primitive or unsophisticated” -Collins English Dictionary, 2009). For example. the report estimates that about 65 million Arabs out of a total population of about 280 million are illiterate; two thirds of them are women. The Report summarizes: “if these deficits persist, the Arabs will not be able to make it.” So it’s not just the New Republic that think the Mideast is “barbaric” but the United Nations too.
One final piece of evidence that the Middle East is still in the Dark Ages, did you know:
IN THE UK THERE ARE 2,000 TITLES BOOKS FOR EVERY PERSON. IN CAIRO THERE ARE 20 FOR EVERY PERSON.
IN THE THOUSANDS YEARS SINCE THE CALIPH MOON, THE ARAB WORLD HAS TRANSLATED 10K BOOKS FROM OTHER LANGUAGES INTO ARABIC. THAT’S WHAT SPAIN DOES IN A SINGLE YEAR.
nice blog, I enjoy playing american football. So much hours of entertaintment to be had!