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The 2 Most Important Reasons Why I Hate Game of Thrones

Sorry to be Buzzkillington tonight.

by
Dave Swindle

Bio

June 10, 2013 - 12:05 am
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Tyrion Lannister, one of the few sympathetic characters on Game of Thrones, is a notorious aficionado of prostitutes. We’re supposed to ignore that this is a man who chooses to purchase sex slaves. That’s just the status quo, no big deal, everybody does it in the world that George R.R. Martin and the thousands of people working on the show have decided to invest years of their lives into creating and glorifying for millions of viewers.

Dear Andrew,

We have chatted and swapped emails about our occasionally differing views of popular culture. But we have yet to really dialogue in a constructive manner to try and illuminate and — perhaps, I sincerely hope — resolve our differences. With your compelling defense of Game of Thrones and your encouragement of Christians to engage with reality and the culture at large, this looks like a good opportunity to illustrate how my perspective on film has changed over the last four years and why we’re now in some ways polar opposites on pop culture preferences, at least when it comes to HBO’s offerings. You’ve named Game of Thrones as your favorite show. Sorry, but having watched everything up to tonight’s finale, I really HATE this show. It’s a textbook example of everything that sickens me about our culture today and that someday I’ll write a book about to diagnose fully. I agree with th commenter “Recovering Lutheran” from your post:

First, let’s get the obvious out of the way. “Game of Thrones” is not art. It is “Dungeons and Dragons” crossed with Playboy magazine, with a dash of “Days of Our Lives” thrown in. The plot is meandering and often pointless, the dialogue is tedious and sometimes predictable, the acting is mostly wooden, and the only thing that keeps much of the audience from tuning out is the prospect of a shapely actress doing the Full Monty. Most of the things that make science fiction and fantasy absorbing are diminished or absent in “Game of Thrones”. If you ever wondered what would have happened if Hugh Hefner had tried to make “Lord of the Rings”, you need not wonder any longer.

You’ve known me since not long after I started editing full time. I was 25 and was only a defense hawk and fiscal conservative but still “socially liberal.” Since then, for a variety of reasons (particularly my return to belief in God), I’ve come further in my ideological shift. I’m genuinely embarrassed by some of the socially conservative positions I find myself now arguing. Never in a million years did I foresee myself as the type that would ever side with those cautioning against pornography’s downsides and the “shocking” content in art. You’ve talked in the past about how you disagree with our mutual friend Ben Shapiro about his Orthodox Judaism-inspired approach to culture and sex. I used to also — and I still disagree with Ben from time to time on issues and tactics (particularly on gay marriage. This is a theological difference deriving from an interpretation of scripture. He and I will just have to keep arguing about it). But on the fundamental issue, the social conservatism he explicates from his traditional reading of the Torah is correct: sex is sacred. It’s impossible to have “casual sex” with someone — every sexual act is transformative. I came to this understanding differently than him, though, through first-hand experience and painful mistakes.

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Top Rated Comments   
It's because of decades' worth of evil, postmodern popular culture that the American people are unable to recognize that their president is an antisemitic criminal. http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2013/05/30/why-benghazi-is-a-crime-more-evil-than-anything-a-president-has-done-in-our-lifetimes-in-60-seconds/

And don't assume just because you read one article that everyone at PJM agrees with its arguments.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
As usual with these things, my basic response is "Wow, then you probably shouldn't watch it."
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Actually good historians of the First Crusade showed that many Crusaders embarked because of idealistic, Christian purposes. The Crusaders were not angels, but many of them were not evil villains either. And, many people now are ignorant of how the Crusades were in reaction to Muslim persecution of Christians in the Holy Land, and attacks against the Byzantines.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
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All Comments   (173)
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The only work of George R.R. Martin which I've ever found worth reading had been the collection of short works he'd turned into the fix-up novel Tuf Voyaging (1986).

He'd begun writing those stories in 1976 with the intention of selling them to the leading "hard" science fiction magazine at the time, Analog, and in both character development, setting, plot and theme they worked for the fans of conscientiously "hard" speculative fiction.

Beyond Tuf Voyaging, however, his stuff has been effectively unreadable and unappetizing - except to fantasy fans, and those yups are by definition bloody idiots of the worst kind, almost invariably "low-information voter" obamaphiles.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Have you visited the No Whites Allowed room at Wiscon?
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
It's a commonplace to yell about the difference between porn and erotica. Or to claim frankness as disinterested documentation, not titillation. This is a common, vulgar failing.

And each generation shows this fault anew, not unlike the endless "revisionist Westerns" or "new, powerful anti-heroes" they trot out. Honestly, the first "revisionist" western was in the '20s if not earlier.

I have not seen GoT, I did read the first four books. Nice world. But watching all these morons stumbling about getting murdered was seriously depressing.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Another example of how I think mature art can be tastefully done is in this critique of the story of Amnon and Tamar, and of several paintings based on it:

http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/article.aspx?articleId=800

Even though there are a few bared breasts some of these paintings, none of them are prurient; the emphasis is on sympathy for Tamar, not a salacious by-proxy experience of the rape from Amnon's point of view. This, when an ugly act is necessary to depict at all, is how it should be done.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I for one appreciate Mr. Swindles willingness to meaningfully engage with the commenters.

Kudos David.

PS - I appreciate your turn to principled moral stand in the cesspit that is our pop culture.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Your encouragement is very much appreciated. And I will try and engage more and encourage the other PJ Lifestyle contributors to do so as well.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Sounds like a case of Darkness Induced Audience Apathy as described at the ever-helpful reference site TV Tropes:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarknessInducedAudienceApathy

As to reading the Bible, my first bit of advice is: don't take advice from obvious idiots and illiterates like Argyraspide and Crawford42 who obviously never actually *read* anything they're criticizing EXCEPT to wrench things out of context and attack the author.

For their information, the sexiest and most violent parts of the Bible would barely rate PG-13 in today's culture, though I'd prefer to give them a solid R. The most violent passage I can think of, Psalms 137:9, is nothing more than the singer's overly vindictive *wish* that his enemies would experience the same thing that had been done to him. (This is known as "being authentic" in post-modern parlance.)

As for pornography, the Bible doesn't *have* any. Sure, it *mentions* sex and sexuality a lot. There are several stories of rape, including one about an actual gang rape; but where are the all graphic *descriptions*? "Then the rapacious townspeople, randy with lust, threw her on the ground, ripped off her robe, whipped out their penises (except the women, who were all getting out their dildos)..." They're just not in there. It just says "they raped her and abused her all night long" at tells us that their poor victim died, and leaves it at that. The most graphic descriptions you can get are in Ezekiel, and are on the order of "then you let them fondle your breasts" and "...whose emissions are like those of horses and donkeys..." which is more darkly ludicrous than sexual. Again, you could barely earn a movie a PG-13 rating for *depicting* a gal's breasts being fondled or a guy's having an apparently oversized penis, let alone just saying "he fondled her breasts" or "they've got dicks like donkeys'."

For my part, I rather liked discovering (as a teenager) that the Bible isn't just a saccharine storybook for kids; but if you're an actual pervert looking for some fap material (and not just some hypocritical fool atheist looking for stuff to cast the Bible in the most perverted light possible), you're doomed to disappointment. You'll not find a word in there to excite you, unless you're thirteen and have never seen a guy fondling a gal's breasts in a movie before. Sorry, perverts: the atheists *lied* to you! They've probably never even read most of the Bible. Yeah, I know that must come as a bit of a shock.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
From the book of Judges: "After taking in a traveling Levite, the host offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine to a mob of perverts (who want to have sex with his guest). The mob refuses the daughter, but accepts the concubine and they "abuse her all night." The next morning she crawls back to the doorstep and dies. The Levite puts her dead body on an ass and takes her home. Then he chops her body up into twelve pieces and sends them to each of the twelve tribes of Israel. 19:22-30"

Riprake, please explain the context of that wonderful and uplifting episode in Judges. I am hoping you can cause me to be less idiotic and illiterate with the awe-inspiring explanation you will undoubtedly give. Thank you in advance.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
You really don't read very much, do you, Argyraspide? Here, for those more literate than you, in three chapters, is the whole episode, available online for free because it's in the public domain:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+19&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2020&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2021&version=NIV

Now if you insist on every story you get being "wonderful and uplifting" I'm afraid no one can help you there; I mean, unless you're so pathetically perverted that you can get off to the mere *mention* of a gang rape, in which case you need a lot of help of a very different kind which can only be provided by your local prisons and maybe mental asylums.

Human history has its brighter points, but on the whole is rather sordid and awful, and this story is a historical account. Still, I'd say this episode does at least have one of those bright points, considering that the unquestionably evil gang rapists and the scum defending them did end up paying very dearly for what they did. It's easily one of my favorite stories with mature themes in it. It's also a good example of what TV Tropes calls Black And Gray Morality:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackAndGrayMorality

I originally attempted to give a shorter summary, but apparently even that was too long for this comments section to accept. I will therefore have to abridge it even further.

In case you missed the editorial comment back in Judges 19:1 (and you did, by the way), the writers of this history will spell it out for you again in the final words of Judges (21:25): "In those days Israel had no king; everyone did as he saw fit."

This whole sordid account, you see, is what comes from living in the kind of anarchy the morally relativistic academic fools of our time envision to be an enlightened form of society. It's not as if this state of anarchy didn't have any good guys, or the good guys couldn't win; it's just that those good guys weren't really all that good. If you start from the assumption that people are basically good and should therefore be allowed to do whatever they like (or "see fit" as the passage puts it), they behave exactly the way people who are basically evil would do, because real people *are* basically evil. That's why all moral relativists (and anarchists) are fools.

That's all for inspiring moral lessons today, but if you're thinking that final message is mistaken because moral relativism might work better in a nation with more of a centralized government, many sequels to this story in the historical books of Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles are also available to prove to you that it doesn't. This particular episode is also a spiritual successor to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in chapters 18 and 19 of Genesis (another one of my favorites, as the gang-bangers and proto-bleeding-hearts in it also get exterminated, albeit by more direct divine intervention).

In all these other stories, as in this one, the Bible also manages to tell us all about these various atrocities without shoving any excessively bloody and pornographic descriptions of them in our faces, unlike some of the works you so foolishly attempt to defend through recommending Biblical illiteracy. Sex and violence, properly portrayed, can be legitimate parts of art; Stanley Kubrick's adaptation of "A Clockwork Orange" and Mel Gibson's magnum opus "The Passion of the Christ" come to mind. One needs discerning wisdom, however, to distinguish mature art from mere pornography. By promoting ignorance and illiteracy, you are demonstrating the very opposite quality, thus discrediting yourself. Of course an atheist would want to promote ignorance about anything he refuses to understand for himself.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Very thoughtful. Thank you.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Have you read "Life at the Bottom: The Worldview That Makes the Underclass by Theodore Dalrymple. You might find a lot of concurrence with his view of the coarsening of life and what you see in GOT. I, too, am done with the show. Enjoyed the first season until the killing of the only deeply decent person, Ned Stark. Since then, it has been an exercise in a descent into a Hobbesian world where the evil thrive and (to paraphrase Hunter S. Thompson) good men die like dogs in the street. No, thanks.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Thanks for the reminder on that classic Dalrymple. I've been meaning to finish it. I agree that his analysis of the British underclass would relate with the primitivism of GOT.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
David,, forgive me if you had said you've read the books but it doesn't sound like you have. So take my word for it: it's good you're getting out now because you REALLY won't like the path Tyrion takes later. Trust me. And nothing gets any better for anybody else either. At least, not yet. And if Martin doesn't finish the damned thing, maybe never.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I haven't read the books and don't plan on it. There are many fantasy series that I haven't even gotten to yet -- I still need to read Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings...
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
"Prostitute-idolizing"?!

Like some other commenters here, I think you're missing the point, and even Mr. Klavan didn't quite deliver all of it. You talk of the series as if the author and creators have a positive viewpoint on all the horrors we see in the show - they don't only "normalaize" prostitution, but even "idolize" prositutes, and they "glorify" the kind of world portrayed in the show - these are your words. But what I've been getting from the show is quite the opposite - the author's moral standpoint is obviously critical. He doesn't have to literally say this or that is bad - he shows you the consequences - the tragedy, death, torment and destruction resulting from excessive and merciless human tyranny, greed, lust for power, lust for sex, vengeance, religious fanaticism, vanity and oppression and you can decide for yourself. It depicts man-made hell on earth. Is there even one person there, whether a king or a slave, good or bad, who isn't tormented? Seeing the consequences of these vice should discourage, not encourage, people from indulging in such excesses.

"Why curl up at night and watch a show filled with cruel, crazy, unpredictable people stabbing each other in the back for no reason whatsoever when that’s what we have to maneuver around all day in the real world?"

Well, that's the point. The characters in GoT are not "unpredictable" at all and do not stab each other in the back for "no reason whatsoever". When you know their motivations they become predictable. They murder for a reason, for the aformentioned reasons - reasons such as lust for power, greed, sexual lust and depravity, vengeance, vanity and religious fanaticism. Much like in the real world, no? Aren't those the exact same motivations that create an hell on earth in reality? At least in GoT they are seen as evil, unlike in our contemporary media and academia where good and evil are determined by your race, religion and political inclination rather than by your actions.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I don't understand how you think the author's moral standpoint is obviously critical. He's an atheist. What is the source of his morality that would inspire him to be critical of what he depicts?
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Continued...

The prostitutes in GoT are part of the dark man-made hell. They are not "idolized" and are not "ultra-feminine sex goddesses", nor a "hooker with a heart of gold", "fallen but benevolent, wise woman just struggling to survive and improve herself". There's not one hooker there that's portrayed this way. They are all miserable human beings. While they smile to the clients, the show made it clear that they smile because the pimp (exemplified by Littlefinger) mercilessly threatens them with a horrible fate if they don't. Even after the babies suspected of being King Robert's bastard children are torn away from the arms of their prostitute mothers and murdered to prevent any further claims to the throne, the prostitues are forced to continue working and smiling or else. We see some prostitutes and learn of others who were tortured and even killed by sadistic clients - that doesn't normalize or legitimize sado-masochism, but is again part of the cruelty of the man-made hell on earth. We learn from Varis also of the phenomenon of selling young boys for prostitution. In the third season's finale Daeneris liberates a city of sex slaves, among other slaves, so we know where many of the whores came from. Any viewer who pays any attention can't delude himself that most prostitutes have chosen this path of their own truly free choice or are having real fun of it.

I’ve made it through the three seasons not caring about any of the characters or which of the evil tyrants will end up with the coveted throne just because of the low-brow thought, “Gee, I wonder who gets killed or how they’ll try and horrify me next.”

I believe what you say here because you were apparently so focused on the sex and gore that you don't even know the characters. Not everyone vying for the throne is, at least currently, an evil tyrant. Tywin Lannister and his grandson are. King Robert's brother Staniss starts out as a decent guy, but gets corrupted by his lover. Robb Stark was a decent guy who was chosen by the Northerners to lead a rebelion and liberate the North after evil Crown Prince Joffrey inherited the throne. Daeneris Targaryen started out as a victim of her evil brother and gradually empowered herself after her forced marriage. She also covets the throne, but so far she's been using her power for good. She liberates slaves everywhere she goes. Her moral principles seem to develop and mature in correlation with the growth of her power. Maybe she'll get corrupted in the next seasons, or more likely get killed by one of the others, but so far she can't be described as an evil tyrant.

Don't get me wrong. You are likely right that the creators of the show use so much sex and gore to get higher rating. However, it is wrong to sum up the series as an exhibition of sex and gore. It has much more depth than that. I can't stand porn, so me watching GoT of my own free will is proof enough :). I hardly watch any TV at all. I more or less gave up on current Western popular culture. Too many of its products look like Soviet agit-prop filmed in Sodom and Gomorrah, a combination that's a bit too much to bear. I identify with what you said about casual sex. And I feel alienated when watching Western products that make emotionless casual sex seem like the norm. I opt for East-Asian TV dramas, most of which have no sex whatsoever, no naked women running about, not even French kisses. I watch GoT not because of the porn and gore, but in spite of them. They are disturbing me, but I watch it because of the fascinating characters, the engaging complex plot, the mind games, the dark, cynical and witty dialogs and the excellent cast.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
"They are all miserable human beings."
"I believe what you say here because you were apparently so focused on the sex and gore that you don't even know the characters."

Actually I think I get the characters -- your description of the prostitutes summarizes them all. They're miserable human beings. And I spend enough time watching miserable human beings 9-5 while editing PJM political stories and blog posts. My wife and I would rather spend time in DisneyLand style fantasy rather than Game of Thrones torture session fantasy.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I see a lot of people are disturbed by Dave pointing out their favorite show is fairly twisted. There seems to be two lines of attack on him. One, don't watch the show. Did they just not read that he ISN'T GOING TO WATCH THE SHOW! Why is it you guys getting your panties in a wad over the fact that he told you why? Others say there are a lot of worse things out there on TV or real life. Well, I guess so, but so what? Murder is worse than theft, but that doesn't somehow make theft good. And for everyone saying that it's basically just a show, lighten up, you can not have people watching tons of violent and perverted acts and think it doesn't affect their minds in a bad way. I used to watch things worse than Thrones, like Real Sex, when I was in my twenties (and teens), but eventually you realize all decadent entertainment is doing to you is warping your sense of reality. Movies like Boogie Nights, which I liked, gives you a warped sense of say the porn world, but just read the histories of most real porn stars and you see most of the girls are just abused kids, but hey what a great life Dirk Diggler led right. Yeah, he got in a little trouble, but things didn't work out so bad for him right? Then watch Wonderland and see how things really went for John Holmes. And if you think entertainment doesn't influence people, did anyone see how most of the most trusted people in America now are actors, and Tom Hanks came in at number one. Part of us knows these things are only fiction, but part of our brain processes these images like they were real, and you get people actually thinking Tom Hanks is the most stand up guy in the country. Does stuff like Thrones make most of us go out and buy prostitutes and murder people, no, but if you think watching tons of other people pretend to do that stuff doesn't mess with your sense of reality and what is good you are fooling yourself.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I appreciate your defense of me but I'm going to have to disagree with you about Boogie Nights. It's one of my favorite films because I think it does tell the truth about pornography. The final act of the film shows how the characters return from whence they came, back to just being common prostitutes picking up johns on the street. And surely you remember the sequence with Alfred Molina inspired by the Wonderland murders? Boogie Nights is very accurate in depicting the criminal drug culture surrounding prostitution.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I wouldn't say "very" accurate. In Nights they rob Molina but not much really comes from it, and the final scene shows Diggler just going back to work talking about how much of a star he is. Showing Diggler dying of aids after barely beating a murder wrap and having his wife and girlfriend leave him would be accurate. The movie doesn't leave out all the downsides of porn but you certainly don't leave the movie with a real sense of how crappy it can all truly be. You leave it with the feeling that Diggler is one cool cat.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Well Diggler is one cool cat. And we see where being cool takes him. But your insistence that P.T. Anderson should have stuck to a literal telling of the John Holmes story is more a request that he make a different movie. Diggler doesn't exactly end up all that great, someone you'd want to emulate. At the end of the film he's back to where he's started -- "performing" for individual men.

But I don't think Boogie Nights glamorizes porn or prostitution. One doesn't leave that movie inspired to want to go be a porn star or a prostitute.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
The question is whether GoT is mainstreaming these things in such a way as to make it the next cool thing kids in high school will be turning into plays and cheerleading torture routines. It is not. Hookers in GoT are not the new Ozzie and Harriet and torture is not the new planking. For mainstreaming depravity, sexualizing children or hate speech, you have to go to Glee or MSNBC.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
"Prostitute-idolizing"?!

Like some other commenters here, I think you're missing the point, and even Mr. Klavan didn't quite deliver all of it. You talk of the series as if the author and creators have a positive viewpoint on all the horrors we see in the show - they don't only "normalaize" prostitution, but even "idolize" prositutes, and they "glorify" the kind of world portrayed in the show - these are your words. But what I've been getting from the show is quite the opposite - the author's moral standpoint is obviously critical. He doesn't have to literally say this or that is bad - he shows you the consequences - the tragedy, death, torment and destruction resulting from excessive and merciless human tyranny, greed, lust for power, lust for sex, vengeance, religious fanaticism, vanity and oppression and you can decide for yourself. It depicts man-made hell on earth. Is there even one person there, whether a king or a slave, good or bad, who isn't tormented? Seeing the consequences of these vice should discourage, not encourage, people from indulging in such excesses.

"Why curl up at night and watch a show filled with cruel, crazy, unpredictable people stabbing each other in the back for no reason whatsoever when that’s what we have to maneuver around all day in the real world?"

Well, that's the point. The characters in GoT are not "unpredictable" at all and do not stab each other in the back for "no reason whatsoever". When you know their motivations they become predictable. They murder for a reason, for the aformentioned reasons - reasons such as lust for power, greed, sexual lust and depravity, vengeance, vanity and religious fanaticism. Much like in the real world, no? Aren't those the exact same motivations that create an hell on earth in reality? At least in GoT they are seen as evil, unlike in our contemporary media and academia where good and evil are determined by your race, religion and political inclination rather than by your actions.

1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Sorry for the double post... Some technical difficulties here.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Perhaps, but why show all the sex and violence in such intimate detail. You really think it's not to just titillate people? Any if it's hell on earth, doesn't that suck? I had to see tons of people filling my facebook page with their whining about this seasons ending, like it was a little too much for them? Did they not realize the story is only going to get more and more f----d up as it progresses? And watching tons on violent acts doesn't make most people less violent, it makes them more violent, on average. People learn by imitation in many respects, and people certainly imitate things they see on TV.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
Yeah, they do learn by imitation. Even if did not have any actual visualization as a source (eg, anything that's not a TV/movie nor a video/computer game), people will still imitate it. Take the French Revolution, for example: TVs, Movies, computer, and video games didn't even exist at the time of that period, yet books, specifically the works of Rousseau, Voltaire, and Sade not only did exist, they have all been attributed to the cause of the French Revolution AND the Reign of Terror. Heck, the decapitated corpses were even placed into extremely lewd positions that were directly inspired by Sade's "120 Nights of Sodom," and that was a book.

As far as the comments made by The Other Pnina, if Martin really felt those scenes weren't necessary and were really too much, didn't fit the narrative you claimed for it to be following, don't you think Martin would have directly interfered and ordered for them to stop. Martin is ultimately in control of what the show does or shows. Heck, JK Rowling regarding the Harry Potter films directly interfered if they don't match the book or her vision (For instance, she was the reason why dialogue regarding Dumbledore having relations with a woman were cut, apparently because it didn't fit her narrative of Dumbledore being homosexual. And she's the reason why Kreacher is in Movie 5, due to their originally considering cutting him out).
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
I comletely agree with what you say. Even if the prostitutes are relevant, there's no need for so many naked women and explicit pornographic sex scenes. The presence of the whores should suffice without actually "peeping through the key hole". There's alsp no need for all the closeups on all the gory details of chopped of heads, slit throats, spilling guts and amputated body parts. The body count, loss of lives and limb, and the grief are enough to make a point. It's probably also true that people immitate the violence on TV, whether it's portrayed as good or evil, glorified or condemned. I never said GoT is all good. Those things are disturbing to me too. I just say there's much more to it than just that, and that its basic premise is not the glorification or approval of evil, violence, sado-masochism and prostitution, but just the opposite. I would, however, reduce the porn and gore by 99% if it were up to me.
1 year ago
1 year ago Link To Comment
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