Not Everyone Wants to Be Saved
An excerpt from page 21 of Stephen Prothero's God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions That Run the World -- and Why Their Differences Matter,
January 27, 2013 - 9:00 am
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Well, now, if this the crux of the author’s point, it just shows that even the writer can make of religion whatever he wants to make of it. Religions are whatever he limits or expands them to be. Who woulda thought?!
I spent six months attempting to become a Buddhist. My sect did a lot of chanting and somehow non existing. I could never grok it at more than a surface level.
My Buddhist friend took the crucifix off my car mirror. She has said Buddhism things was not a religion, so why did she mind about the cross? I got another one and she got into a snit.
Since then other Buddhists have told me the sect that chants and gets goodies from the universe was a bad example of Buddhism. That’s what all the protestant churches say about each other too as far as I can tell.
re: Buddhism as a religion.
I quacks like one.
“My Buddhist friend took the crucifix off my car mirror… I got another one and she got into a snit.” She’s very “tolerant”, isn’t she? I bet she has a “Coexist” bumper sticker on her car.
Hasn’t been my experience as a Protestant. But I am sure this doesn’t hold for all who have attended Protestant churches. My experience has been that some have preferences to how the worship churches are conducted, how the administration is done, the music chosen and sung, etc…
Attended many a Mass too. Much prefer the Protestant services, but I still feel in a place of worship when I attend Mass with my wife. Like a majority of the people too.
Only problem I have is when these “churches” begin to diverge from what the Bible says. Then I got a big problem.
Contrasts between religions can be as clunky as inappropriate comparisons or equivalences.
I agree all religions shouldbe studied in their distinctiveness. Only from a distance (or if you squint) do they “all look alike.”
But to say “salvation” is a Christian concept is stupid. Christian salvation historically owes its sense of after death-existence to mid-east “dionysian” Pythagorean,Mithrantic and eleususian mystery cultus that suffused the world from Alexandria to India.
IOW Buddhist and Christian salvation have a common demonstrable historical root.
In addition both “heaven” and “nirvana” must be names or characterizations of the most sublime extremities of human experience. Thus they are comparable inherently; the way languages must be more or less translatable.
No, nothing of the sort. Christianity is derived from Judaism.
Only in part. The element of a god who dies and descends to the underworld to rescue his followers and raise them to eternal life is not found in Judaism, but is all over the Greco-Roman mysteries (Eleusinian, Dionysian, Mithraic). C.S. Lewis had some interesting observations about it.
In my bible Christ is the son of God, not God. When he died on the cross he arose three days later, but he didn’t take anyone with him. That is why he is called, “the hope of glory,” because he’s the only one.
I would disagree. Christianity has a very definite idea of what sin, salvation, and heaven mean. They are not the same as Buddhism’s ideas about suffering, escape from suffering, and nirvana. The only similarities are ones that most religions share with each other: the notion that life without religion is somehow broken, unsatisfactory, wrong, while religion offers something better, now or in “the next life.” Buddhists do want to be saved, but not from the Christian version of sin.
Unless, like a lot of clever people, you think that religious people don’t know what their own religions are *really* about but clever people do…
George Massey’s work isn’t taken seriously by any real Egyptian scholar, so if you’re talking about the Horus argle-bargle, we’ll laugh at you.
no offense, but you are one confused individual regarding salvation and Christ….not sure where you got that….gobbledygook…..but also not surprised
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure my cat is God. At least she seems pretty certain about it.
You’ve probably heard this one, Robert L. Mayo, but for the folks who haven’t…
Why would be under the impression that every religion is out for salvation? There are a number of religions that espouse concepts like reincarnation or simply alleviating suffering, your own and others’.
I’m not aware I ever thought we were all heading toward a kind of salvation; I just knew that we Christians were
Westerners don’t get Eastern religions at all. I am not sure if Eastern religions even are religions by our definition. They sure are not faiths because they don’t ask you to believe in anything from what I have learned.
At it’s core, Western religions say God has a set of rules for you to follow and if you do you will be rewarded, if you don’t you will be punished, usually after you are dead. And by the way, he put us in charge of making sure you follow these rules and wants you to give us money.
Eastern religions seem to be more of a set of guidelines for a happy life. It is; here are a bunch of practices and guidelines lead to a good life. Follow them and you will have a better life, don’t follow them and you will have a worse life.
My path took me to Buddha and Lao Tzu and I read a lot about Hindus and I didn’t encounter much talk of salvation or God’s rule book. What I came away with was the importance of meditation, eating quality food, and being just, honorable, and kind. The rest is fluff.
That’s about right. Even though westerners accuse Buddhist of being “passive,” the most important aspect of Buddhism is practice – not belief. Belief, or faith, is an essential aid to practice, but it’s not the essence of Buddhism. You can believe all you want, but if you don’t follow the Noble Eightfold Path in your daily life, you’re not doing Buddhism. Following the Path, as you say, will improve your life, make you a nicer person, whatever. But that’s not the point, either. The point is reaching the goal, which is nirvana.
“At it’s core (sic), Western religions say God has a set of rules for you to follow and if you do you will be rewarded, if you don’t you will be punished, usually after you are dead. And by the way, he put us in charge of making sure you follow these rules and wants you to give us money.”
Nope. You got some very poor Christian formation if that’s your take.
Agreed. With all due respect to Old Guy, he doesn’t get Christianity at all.
@Reformed Trombonist:
On the contrary. I get it exactly. It is the one religion I studied in great detail, being a product of the Catholic education system and a recovering Christian myself.
@Jeannette:
(sic)? I think not. See 2 a&b below. Plus I have to point out the intellectual snobbery you display by placing “(sic)” in a quote during an online discussion make you appear to be a laughable twit.
core \”kOr, “kOr\ noun often attrib [ME] (14c)
1 : a central and often foundational part usu. distinct from the enveloping part by a difference in nature : as
a : the usu. inedible central part of some fruits (as a pineapple); esp : the papery or leathery carpels composing the ripened ovary in a pome fruit
b : the portion of a foundry mold that shapes the interior of a hollow casting
c : a vertical space (as for elevator shafts, stairways, or plumbing apparatus) in a multistory building
d (1) : a mass of iron serving to concentrate and intensify the magnetic field resulting from a current in a surrounding coil
(2) : a tiny doughnut-shaped piece of magnetic material (as ferrite) used in computer memories
(3) : a computer memory consisting of an array of cores strung on fine wires; broadly : the internal memory of a computer
e : the central part of a celestial body (as the earth or sun) usu. having different physical properties from the surrounding parts
f : a nodule of stone (as flint or obsidian) from which flakes have been struck for making implements
g : the conducting wire with its insulation in an electric cable
h : an arrangement of a course of studies that combines under basic topics material from subjects conventionally separated and aims to provide a common background for all students
i : the place in a nuclear reactor where fission occurs
2 a : a basic, essential, or enduring part (as of an individual, a class, or an entity)
b : the essential meaning : gist
c : the inmost or most intimate part
3 : a part (as a thin cylinder of material) removed from the interior of a mass esp. to determine composition
> “At it’s core, Western religions say God has a set of rules for you to follow and if you do you will be rewarded, if you don’t you will be punished, usually after you are dead. And by the way, he put us in charge of making sure you follow these rules and wants you to give us money.”
Old Guy, if you stand by this statement, then you most assuredly do *not* get it.
Here’s Paul:
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.”
>> God has a set of rules for you to follow and if you do you will be rewarded
What you are saying is that man saves himself through his good works. Which is the opposite of what Paul said.
I could care less what is in your book of lies. I eschew all religion, including the modern Progressive/Collectivist faith. They do far more harm than good. A few good sayings and the rest is evil. Jihad or Inquisition, they all end up killing for God.
Meditate, eat healthy food, and treat others the way you would have them treat you and you’ll be a happy and just man. I don’t need to support a class of idle clerics to do that.
I did my part. Just showing you don’t understand Christianity even though you think you do.
No – you don’t “get” Christianity at all. Reformed Trombonest told you the gist of it and you you threw a hissy snit.
> “But Confucians and Buddhists do not believe in sin, so it makes no sense for them to try to be saved from it.”
The first, most fundamental belief of Christianity is that it proclaims objective truth. If Christian theology is correct about that point, then Confucians and Buddhists need to be saved from their sin regardless of what they believe.
Reformed Christianity holds that, really, nobody wants to be saved from sin. We enjoy it too much. We have to be awakened to it by the Holy Spirit and see it from the Lord’s perspective. That’s what this “born again” stuff really means. Our old self is fully human and fully depraved. “Dead in sin,” were Paul’s words. Unless the Lord awakens you spiritually, you will go to your grave not caring about your sin.
People often remark on the innocence of children. How completely unspoilt and pure they are. Except that as any parent will tell you, children are born liars. They are selfish, greedy and cruel. That’s original sin and we all start out the same way!