A Gangnam Style Apology for Getting Caught
South Korean rapper Psy — you may have heard of him — spent time during the last decade attending anti-American protests in his country. He even rapped the following about the Americans:
Kill those Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives/Kill those Yankees who ordered them to torture/Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers/Kill them slowly and painfully
Psy is meeting President Obama Sunday and will be in a Christmas TV special with him that airs on December 21. Those old lyrics about killing Americans “slowly and painfully” are suddenly a problem for him.
So here comes the “sorry I was caught” apology:
“As a proud South Korean who was educated in the United States and lived there for a very significant part of my life, I understand the sacrifices American servicemen and women have made to protect freedom and democracy in my country and around the world,” said Psy in a statement. “The song – from eight years ago – was part of a deeply emotional reaction to the war in Iraq and the killing of two innocent Korean civilians that was part of the overall antiwar sentiment shared by others around the world at that time. While I’m grateful for the freedom to express one’s self I’ve learned there are limits to what language is appropriate and I’m deeply sorry for how these lyrics could be interpreted. I will forever be sorry for any pain I have caused anyone by those words.
The statement continues, “I have been honored to perform in front of American soldiers in recent months – including an appearance on the Jay Leno show specifically for them – and I hope they and all Americans can accept my apology. While it’s important we express our opinions, I deeply regret the inflammatory and inappropriate language I used to do so. In my music I try to give people a release, a reason to smile. I have learned that though music, our universal language we can all come together as a culture of humanity and I hope that you will accept my apology.”
His “Gangnam Style” video has been watched more than 902 million times since it was uploaded to YouTube in July. It has spawned more imitations and copycats than Elvis. Now it turns out that it came from a bona fide America hater.
The two innocent Koreans were two schoolgirls who were killed in an accident involving two U.S. soldiers stationed in Korea. Their accident in no way justified rapping about killing Americans “slowly and painfully.” Nor did the bad actions of a few U.S. troops in a war zone that Psy cannot comprehend.
This fellow lived in this country and is from a country that America has protected for 60 years. More than 50,000 Americans died protecting his country, and countless Americans put their lives on the line to protect his country across the decades.
For what? So ingrates can turn around and fantasize about killing Americans? Why do we do this?
I think I’m done with the world. It’s not just this idiot, it’s how the entire world treats the United States like a fool and a villain. Maybe it’s time to pull all of our troops out of every nation that we currently protect and cut them all loose. No more military protection. No more disaster relief. No more foreign aid. Nothing. We take care of our own and no one else.
*****
Cross-posted from the PJ Tatler
The rationale for forward deployed troops in Europe has boiled down to five hours less flight time from CONUS and hospital facilities that much closer to the battlefield.
Full Stop.
Europe? The Americans Psy is talking about are the ones stationed in South Korea.
It’s true that the airplane has made the world more accessible than it used to be, moving troops isn’t the only thing that has to be considered in a conflict. Forward bases in the region are necessary for maintaining all the equipment, facilities, and other infrastructure needed to actually fight a war. Having all of that in place is essential in being able to successfully mount a defensive campaign against North Korea. The projected destruction of Seoul by the nKoreans can be measured in hours – not weeks, not days. Hours. You have any idea how many people live in Seoul? You know what would be a heck of a lot more likely to happen if there weren’t tens of thousands of US troops stationed within striking distance of the border? For a variety of reasons, we’re the only thing keeping that region stable – the entire geopolitical environment of East Asia, and the safety of nations like South Korea, is dependent on the United States.
I get your point, though. Why do we care about people who view us like this? Why would we care about people whose grandparents we saved from communism, only to have them hate us sixty years later? Beyond treaty agreements and economic ties? I don’t necessarily agree that we should be the world police, but at the same time, it’s the United States that’s alloted people like Psy to say the things he says, turn his talent into a successful career, and remain blissfully ignorant of the horror his life would be if the US left his nation undefended, or had never come to its aid in the first place. Technically, you could apply that same logic – ungrateful people deserve no protection at all – to the state of California, and let Mexico have it, or let Canada invade New York.
Should his invitation to the White House be rescinded in light of this, though? Oh, that, heck yeah.
Conflicts?
What conflicts except those engineered by Americans for “it’s all about oil”.
Monstrous, inhumane Americans who torture with humiliation and waterboarding their unhappy, misunderstood prisoners only wanting to reach their paradise early. By killng Americans, British, Frenchmen, Israelis. Australians, Indonesians or compatriots in shopping centers, movie houses or nightclubs.
Compared to Saddam Hussein, Iranian and Middle Eastern potentates respectful treatment of their prisoners AND their citizens that continue to thrill the world in its mercy and gentleness.
And of course That multicultural humanitarian United Nations respectful of freedoms and rights of its populations. Those admirably humanitarian member nations China, Russia/Soviet Union, Somalia et al. Recent Joint Chiefs of its Human Rights Council Libya and Zimbabwe.
The peoples of the world who despise and dishonour the United States are marching to the baton the drum majors those compassionate liberal multiculturalist anti american American citizens. With lyrics, raps, for the past half century of America as the most monstrous, the most predatory, the most selfish, the most sexist, the most racist, the most ingnoratn land and people in the history of the world.
|Aided and abetted with the wizard’s want in the hands of TV and Hollywood script and lyric writers. But this is of course no more than a McCarthyite slander, n’est – ce – pas?
No more Yankee Doodle Dandy for compassionate multiculturalists “Leaders” of the New Age world culture.
jojo, it’s appropriate you chose a chimp name. http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/jo-jo-green-sock-monkey–medium-size
hey, uhm….. I don’t know what you want…….
‘Gangnam’ blew up as a global hit to a scale and saturation level unprecedented in history. Nothing compares to it, it couldn’t be predicted nor anticipated. PSY wrote that other thing eight years ago when he was a regional star in a third-tier market. He never expected to be heard nor recognised by Americans and Europeans, let alone those lyrics would ever be transcribed into English. This is an embarrassment not an outrage. Judge PSY on his present behaviour and what he does in the future. This other thing is like the detritus found far up the hill after the worst flood in remembered history subsided. Don’t look at it and move on…….
He never expected to be heard nor recognised by Americans and Europeans, let alone those lyrics would ever be transcribed into English….. Don’t look at it and move on.
Sorta like the Arabs saying one thing about Israel and the Joos to the West and another thing entirely in their own language in their own countries. The dumb Euros and Amis aren’t supposed to be aware of that doubletalk, no?
Similarly we should ignore what Arabs say about Israel and the Joos when speaking to Arabs. Right?
Da Songster
I am reminded of the Dixie Chicks’ remark that made in Great Britain at the time when the British public UK was overwhelmingly against the Iraq War. Natalie Maines said that Dubya made her ashamed to be a Texan. She was pandering to the British crowd. I suspect that rapper Psy was similarly pandering to the public. Yes, he should be called on it.
This is manufacturing something to get upset about………
Look….. two innocent girls are killed and people will say things that are off the hook. This guy Israel Keyes, you can imagine the quality of invective in FB comments following any news feed of this story:
http://www.wral.com/fbi-says-alaska-man-killed-people-for-fun/11857861/
The United States does not do foreign policy as a goodwill exercise nor to curry fond affection in the hearts of millions though people seem to think so. The U.S.A. spent the last sixty years in South Korea for her own good reasons and a lack of gratitude from the Koreans doesn’t enter into it. Oh well….. I guess we can withdraw from the transglobal stage and tell the rest of the world to sod off and in a decade or two we can write our own hymns of hate on Chinese troops once they have to come here to fix our cock-ups for us or control the nefarious crap others are doing within our borders – well….. because we are no longer able to do it ourselves………
I think the Euros are slowly coming to the realization that that just may happen. Now they’re a lot more sober about their wish for a multipolar world. Holding those poles isn’t as much fun as it looks. Just ask Atlas about holding that world on his shoulder.
South Korean rapper Psy: Kill those Yankees who have been torturing Iraqi captives/Kill those Yankees who ordered them to torture/Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers/Kill them slowly and painfully.
lzzrdgrrl
This is manufacturing something to get upset about………
Very interesting. Seems to me, given what occurred in Iraq, that Mr. Psy was the one manufacturing something to get upset about. But that is fine by you.
Iran is closer to being our true enemy and not South Korea…….m’kay?…………..
Iran is closer to being our true enemy and not South Korea…….m’kay?………
Agreed. Then would it not be reasonable to expect a South Korean not to treat the US as an enemy?
“The United States does not do foreign policy as a goodwill exercise nor to curry fond affection in the hearts of millions though people seem to think so. ”
I don’t know what you do for a living (and won’t ask), but foreign policy is what I do for a living. I’ve served in 3rd world garbage dumps and glittering 1st world capitals, and at the moment somewhere in between. Most of our foreign policy today is little more than to curry affection, but that could be a book, or a regular column in PJM for someone not still actively drawing a paycheck from the USG, so I’ll leave it.
U.S foreign policy vis-a-vis South Korea (American blood and treasure as a defense shield, essentially) was part of the Cold War. We we’re there to let the Soviets know our resolve, and yes, to have forward bases and staging areas in the event of a hot war. Our presence there now is both a relic of the Cold War and a nuclear shield – sort of “if you vaporize our 1000s of soldiers while trying to kill S. Koreans you’re not going to like the response.” Being a very wealthy country, S.Korea could provide its own self-defense, and in my opinion, should.
As for a response to this rapper ( I will not use the terms musician or artist, though some will disagree), the president could have used his bully pulpit to have said simply & quietly & in a dignified manner, “It is is beneath the dignity of this office to attend a performance by an anti-American bigot who calls for the deaths of innocent Americans, and I will not insult the American people by doing so. I do not believe his apology is sincere and will not accept it.” And then he could have walked away and returned to the business of being President, and that would likely have settled this “tempest in a teapot.”. But, we know who the current President is, and of course, I know that I’m dreaming.
Pardon the typos – typing too fast, too early on a Sunday morning before finishing the 1st cup of tea.
I’ll defer to your expertise, but if we are using ‘making friends and influencing people’ as a major foreign policy initiative, in the opinion of many (and I sense, yourself……) we are making a grievous mistake……..
Reading the background material, it seems a resurgent Korean nationalism is making itself rather inconvenient. ‘Gangnam’ is supposedly lampooning a ‘fat, dumb and happy’ contingent in Korean society, making that earlier anti-American backlash particularly galling. Let’s accept PSY’s apology at face value, resolve to leave South Korea more to her own devices and instead of watching ‘Christmas in Washington’ on TNT, make it a Dr. Who rerun or something, and call it a night……’>……..
“Judge PSY on his present behaviour and what he does in the future.”
Oh if only people did this where it concerns America.
Congratulations, you were the only one on this thread to A) frame this in the proper perspective, and B) make sense.
Are you sure you’re a republican? You actually make sense.
Have you ever had a friend or significant other that you tried desperately to take care of and do nice things for that only nitpicked you to death and never appreciated anything? That’s how I feel about the US vis a vis the world. Break up with them, move on with your life and maybe they won’t treat the next country that’s nice to them like shit. If not, it’s not your problem anymore.
The nature of the perpetually aggrieved. I recently encountered this with my family, makes me appreciate getting home to my cats more.
This may be exactly how Barrack feels about being in the White House with all the extended family living there.
Plus end all immigration. There is no shortage of humans in America and the current crop coming in are bringing the whole shebang down. We were already the most diverse country in the world 50 years ago. Today, with more ethnic diversity, we are less diverse culturally.
You know, as apologies go, this one is pretty close to an actual apology. He said some things in the heat of the moment that he now, on further consideration, regrets. He’s been honored to perform for American soldiers and to forge new relationships. Yes, it’s still awfully close to the old tripe of “I’m sorry to anyone who was offended.” But it seems to me that he sincerely wishes he hadn’t said it and that this one should be let go.
I say, forgive him and move on. I’d rather keep him as the friend he has become than force him back into the enemy he could be.
he’s lying, and another liar, obama, is having him on his show because they think and lie alike
“The entire world treats the United States like a fool and a villain.”
This is what happens when a fool is the elected leader of a country. Triple that when the fool is trying to destroy the oountry.
He will, of course, gratefully accept the apology. After all, lies are his way of life….Obama, that is, not the idiot rapper.
Frankly, I’d rather have the rapper as president.
The liberals are always demanding cuts to defense spending right? Well, I can think of a great place to start.
this guy is a little spoiled turd, silver spoon in his mouth who gets to perform. why do i care what that queen has to say about the USA.it’s the same as when a little petulant child screams at his parents i hate you. yes you do, at the moment, and when you’re done having a hissy fit come and collect your allowance. my son was stationed in Korea and they would let them know the Koreans were going to have a anti American demonstration and to use the other gate. the older Koreans remember what America did for them. they are being lost since they are getting older.
Some American’s reactions to France not wanting to be in the Iraq war were ridiculous.
Boycott’s ,calling them cowards,changing the name French Fries to Freedom Fries was probably the most stupid one.
The word french comes from the word frenched-a way to cut a potato, it has nothing to do with France.
It’s like me saying i disagree with the country Turkey so i am going to stop eating turkey ,it made as much sense as that.
Words. They’re words.
Sticks and stones.
And he didn’t rap about killing americans, he rapped about killing americans who torture iraqi captives. What was the big torture story out of iraq in 2004 … anyone? Anyone? Does ANYONE here remember it? Does anyone remember the “few bad apples” claim that let everyone above a certain rank get away scot free?
The US tortured captives in the war on terror. It’s managed to “deal” with it so that it doesn’t have to talk about it any more, but it happened. It’s a fact of history now. Innocent people were kidnapped and kept outside any recognisable law, they were tortured and (occasionally) beaten to death (particularly in afghanistan).
This happened during a war that was launched on the basis of a claim which many people (i.e. most of the world, including me) did not think was supported by the evidence. The US sent the message to the world that it could side with the US or go to hell. The military was given the order to march to baghdad and take the flag, having no plan for maintaining the peace afterwards – and then the whitehouse tried to claim that iraq was being “liberated”, while smearing anyone who dared to estimate a body count.
That was the context of PSY’s comments. You might not _like_ them, but they were reflective of the views at the time of, well, probably most of the world.
Is the US _really_ this touchy about criticism? Coz, wow, let’s talk about south america.
Wow, T you sure can regurgitate your profs anti-American rants. Good for you. I’ll make you a bet: visit any US Army hospital with me and say the things you are saying here and see what reaction you get.
Next prove anything that you said. Abu Ghrab does not count because that was not torture nor does waterboarding three terrorists. For proof I will only accept DOD stats on torture, kidnappings and illegal shootings…
Lastly, most of the world including Hillary, the Senate, and your BFF in the UN also agreed on WMDs in Iraq. Say just how did Bashar get his WMDs anyway????
“I’ll make you a bet: visit any US Army hospital with me and say the things you are saying here and see what reaction you get”
That’s just silly. Go to a russian military hospital and talk about grozny and see what happens.
“Next prove anything that you said. Abu Ghrab does not count because that was not torture”
Erm … you don’t seem to be particularly familiar with the case, then. Go look up the case of Manadel al Jamadi. Go read the Taguba report (and Antonio Taguba’s later comments in 2008). That guy sure as heck thought it was torture. You could perhaps argue that most of what took place wasn’t technically torture because extracting information wasn’t the goal – but (A) that only applies to _most_ of it, and (B) the violence against helpless prisoners was every bit as real. The pictures of the worst stuff were never made public.
And let’s not forget the Parwan detention facility at Bagram air base in afghanistan. Two deaths (while clearly torture – being chained to a roof and beaten for information) were also categorised as homicides. They were just the ones that died.
“nor does waterboarding three terrorists”
If you honestly believe that was the full extent of torture, there’s not a lot I’m going to be able to do to change your mind – you’re a true believer. You probably also also believe that KSM’s interrogation led the US to OBL.
“For proof I will only accept DOD stats on torture, kidnappings and illegal shootings”
Nice try. The DOD never kept a body count – so, officially, no iraqis died during the invasion. It considers the deaths in custody at abu ghraib or bagram as assaults, or (at worst) homicide. The memo said that the US doesn’t torture, so sure – nothing will ever be filed as torture, because nobody wants to end their career like that.
“Lastly, most of the world including Hillary, the Senate, and your BFF in the UN also agreed on WMDs in Iraq”
UNMOVIC found no evidence of nuclear capability, and no evidence of ongoing biochemical weapons production. You might recall the names “Hans Blix” and “David Kay”? Yes, countries did line up to help – they did that for a range of reasons. Some just wanted to maintain the alliance. Some thought it was good politics. A few really naive ones might have even wanted to believe they were doing the right thing.
“Say just how did Bashar get his WMDs anyway????”
Syria manufactures its own chemical weapons. It doesn’t need moldy 20-year-old leftovers from saddam’s stash.
Now … I don’t think this is all there is to the US. I think this was a dark period in US history, aided and abetted by a very unfortunate administration. It would help a lot, though, if you guys just accepted this stuff and didn’t make people like me spell it out for you, thus appearing to be The Bad Guy.
But try to put all this alongside bush’s declaration that “you’re with us, or you’re with the terrorists”. Try to imagine how that might have made people angry.
Try to remember that there were 3000 dead Americans from the World Trade Center mostly still unburied when Bush said that. Spell it out for me? I would give a lot to be in the same room with you when you did that instead of you being able to hide behind an anonymous computer screen. Cowardly bastards like you are too gutless to say these things to someone who will make them back up their words.
Wow. Out of all of that, the only thing you could respond to was bush’s “with us or against us” quote.
Not a peep about the torture claims, and their relevance to PSY’s comments. Instead you picked up something relatively trivial.
Bush didn’t just say that once. He repeated in a couple of months later, and it was the context for his ongoing case for the coalition of the willing.
blotto – any response at all? That was a pretty big throwdown, and I think I’ve gone some way towards answer it.
Why are American “daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers” taxed to pay for the defense of South Korea?
In 1950, President Truman unilaterally decided that the US should intervene in the inter-Korean war. After gaining approval from the UN Security Council, Truman arrogantly decided to declare the war a “police action” that did not require Congressional (or popular) approval. Acting in the name of the United Nations, Truman began conscripting young American men into the military and even trying to nationalize key industries to help the war effort. His attempt to nationalize the steel industry, for example, was struck down by the Supreme Court in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579 (1952). By the time the war ended, 1,529,539 American men had been drafted to fight in South Korea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States#Cold_War
This “police action” would prove immensely costly for the US, which suffered “36,940 dead, 92,134 wounded, 3,737 MIA [and] 4,439 POW[s]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
On July 27, 1953, the parties signed an armistice (not a peace agreement) which left the inter-Korean boundaries approximately where they started. American troops – many of whom were conscripts – were stationed along the inter-Korean border to act as a “tripwire,” i.e., to get killed in large numbers in order to provide the American government with a reason to intervene in the next Korean war.
For the next sixty nears, South Korea would be wracked by almost constant anti-American protests. Footage of South Korean riot police in Darth Vader-style helmets firing tear gas from automated launchers to protect American bases and diplomatic facilities became a staple of the evening news in America. South Koreans even turned out to celebrate “incidents” where Americans were killed, including the 1976 incident where American soldiers were literally hacked to death by axe-wielding North Korean soldiers. It is not uncommon for anti-American protests to feature tens or even hundreds of thousands of Koreans demanding that the US not only leave but to stop selling them rice, beef, etc. (Many South Koreans believe that all American beef contains mad cow prions.)
During the 1990s, I knew numerous American soldiers who were frankly stunned by the level of hatred they encountered from the Koreans they were supposed to be protecting. Some – even those with memories of the Jim Crow-era South – could not believe the Koreans’ animosity toward African-American soldiers. White soldiers were often harassed in the streets and mistreated by rabidly ethnocentric South Korean police officers. Some openly wondered whether, in the event of war, the South Korean people would side with the North Koreans against their American “allies.”
Why should Americans be taxed and have their benefits cut in order to keep troops in a country where we are hated? Is protecting South Korea really more important that protecting Social Security and Medicare? We should give the Koreans want they want, and leave.
Is the US _really_ this touchy about criticism?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ
Isolationism never really works, but I do agree that we have been played for chumps over the past few decades. Europe, Japan, and South Korea are more than able to protect themselves now with their own people and equipment. We could always say that we would assist them with some military assets if they were ever attacked, but there really isn’t any need to keep troops stationed in Europe almost 70 years after the end of World War II and 60 years after the end of the Korean War (which, admittedly, ended in 1953 with an armistice and not an unconditional surrender). Time for these nations to stand on their own two feet and allow us to get a “peace dividend” for a change.
The Europeans, especially, have had a free ride when it came to national defense for decades now, allowing them to take precious defense dollars and plow them right back into their many social-welfare programs. It’s easy to have a socialist paradise in Europe when you have America picking up the tab for their defense. So it must say something about socialism that even with America picking up the lion’s share of the defense of NATO, most of the European social-welfare states are STILL broke, especially in countries like Greece, Spain, and Italy. Just shows you how many resources to socialist state needs to survive and, like a hungry beast, it is never staisfied and always needs more money to survive.
So if we’re going down the socialist path with Obama, he’s going to need all the money he can get his hands on, and that means cutting more countries loose and letting them pay more for their own defense. Soon, “Leading from Behind” won’t just be an option, it’s going to be a prerequisite because we’ll be as broke as the Europeans. Some “progress” that is.
American’s seem to use your argument.What specifically has the U.S saved the U.K from that enabled us to have a ‘socialised paradise ‘.
Germany declared war on the U.S,this was after the Battle of Britain.The country was destroyed, although the interest was reduced we had to pay the U.S and only finished paying the war debt in 2006.
Is there a statute of limitation’s on using ww1/ww2 as a relevant issue as it was nearly a hundred years only?
You want us to be eternally grateful for this but ignore the U.S political and financial support for the I.R.A.
We supported you following 9/11,are still in Afghanistan and lost blood and treasure in Iraq but there is still a belief we owe you more?
So why DOES the US maintain these bases? Think about japan’s long-term project to get the marines out of okinawa. It wasn’t japan trying to slow the process down – it was the US. In the end, japan had to PAY them to leave.
Has it occured to you that the bases actually might benefit the US?
Sure, south korea might be able to defend itself. But it might not do it in a way that suits US interests. It might, for example, decide to spend its money on european-supplied weapons. That would suck. It might also decide to form an alliance with (unlikely) north korea, and maybe even (more unlikely) japan. Then the US wouldn’t “need” to have any footholds at all in the region. How cool would THAT be?
Parts of europe undoubtedly free-rode to some extent, but it’s not like they had a choice – the people of germany were particularly not keen on having US jets flying around waking them up at night. Meanwhile, the UK, France and other countries spent just as much on their militaries as they would have anyway, because they (A) didn’t actually trust their allies to make good (at least in a timely fashion), and (B) they had their own overseas interests to protect.
Nobody (sensible) in the west wants the US to retreat from its current engagement with the world. But it’s not all down-side for the US, and it’s sure as heck not all up-side for the people who live around its bases.
Meanwhile, the UK, France and other countries spent just as much on their militaries as they would have anyway, because they (A) didn’t actually trust their allies to make good (at least in a timely fashion), and (B) they had their own overseas interests to protect.
What a sublime example of circumlocution.
How so?
Techno, you’re kidding, right? Somebody from the Daily Kos must have put you up to this. You made about five different assertions in one statement and all of them are quite wrong. That must be a record for around here.
For starters, our big push to stay in Okinawa was made during THE COLD WAR, where we had to defend against not only North Korea, but the global ambitions of the then Soviet Union. Kind of hard to defend Japan or South Korea from Hawaii, right? So at that time, we obviously needed a forward base in that area. The only real reason we need it today is because of our defense of South Korea, so if we didn’t need to do that we wouldn’t need a base in Okinawa, especially since the Japanese can more than handle any current threat that’s in the area. And if Japan or South Korea needed any real help, say against China or North Korea, we could always move ships and resources back into the area if needed.
As for our Allies buying weapons from Europe, well it just seems that most of the cutting-edge technology is coming from the United States, NOT Europe. Even when the pathetic militaries of Britain and France attacked Libya, they relied on AMERICAN technology, American smart bombs, and American missiles and aircraft (at least at the beginning) to defeat a dictator where half of his own countrymen were trying to kill him. The Europeans couldn’t even win that pathetic little fight without A LOT of logistical and military help from the United States. So if countries like Japan and South Korea can get the same types of weapons and the same quality from the Europeans, let them. Maybe that would even force America to finally be more competitive in other manufacturing fields, rather than in just weapons.
As for South Korea making an allience with North Korea, they’ve been there, tried that, and it never, ever, worked. For years, South Korea has tried to at least be on good terms with North Korea, but the communist regime in North Korea always eventually finds an excuse to provoke some sort of incident with the South. The most recent one was about a year or so ago when the North Koreans actually shelled a South Korean island, killing some people. North Korea has made it an art form to bring the peninsula to the brink of war whenever it needs something. I think even the South Koreans are tired of playing that game and you won’t see very many overtures to the North for some time to come. Nor should they, considering how insane the North Korean leadership is and probably always will be.
As for waking the Europeans up at night with jet aircraft, my heart really “bleeds” for them. Hey, bud, there is a very quick way to put a stop to that. Close those American bases and bring everybody back to the United States. If anything, I would rather keep more AMERICAN bases open, giving more jobs to AMERICANS, rather than keeping bases open in Germany and keeping Germans employed. Let’s see how much their economy likes it when we pack up our tents and go home.
And let’s not even talk about the cost of keeping all those NATO bases open. That money could really be spent more wisely in other areas, such as more carrier battle groups that don’t have to rely on land bases at all.
You also said that, “The UK, France and other countries spent just as much on their militaries as they would have anyway.” Well, in one sense you are right. As long as the United States was paying for the defense of NATO, there was no reason for the Europeans to spend a lot of money on their military forces. None, and that HAS been proven over the years. They have traditionally spent less than 2% of GDP on defense, which was traditionally much lower than the United States (although even our defense expenditures will fall through the floor if sequestration goes through). And the proof at how small and how in-effective the NATO militaries really are came in Libya, where they were really hard-pressed to even defeat a fourth-rate power like Gaddafi, a dictator where half of his own country was trying to kill him. It was a pathetic display of inadequacy from the military point-of-view and they probably would not have won (or at the very least, it would have taken them a lot longer to win) if it wasn’t for all the help the United States gave them. It was a pathetic spectacle and showed just how impotent the Europeans are when they try to project power anywhere outside of Europe.
As for the defense of Europe itself, I don’t think the Europeans have been up to the task ever since the Berlin Wall came down. They really don’t see any threats or any need for strong military forces, so why should WE get stuck with the bill for it? Russia isn’t about to invade anybody (they can barely hold on in places like Chechnya) and we would not need all our bases in Europe if we started reducing some of our many military committments overseas. There is a huge price to be paid for being the world’s policeman and, with Obama in office, we just can’t afford it anymore.
We do need to keep some bases overseas to project power if we need to. Such bases in Guam and Diego Garcia are critical in cases of emergency in those parts of the world. But perhaps our focus on bases should center on the real potential hot spots in the world, such as the Persian Gulf, rather than places like Europe. We are more likely to be going up against Iran than either North Korea or China. And we certainly do NOT need to be defending the Germans or the French. They are big boys and girls now and should get stuck with the bill of defending their own countries.
But please, don’t make our global defense of these ungrateful nations out to be any major “up side” for us. We did it for a common defense during the Cold War and we do it now to protect trading partners. But now that Americans have voted to keep a socialist in office, we have to pay the bills for socialism on a European scale and that means we have to spend A LOT less on our defense. I hope the American public is happy with that decision, because the day may come when we will have to face another Libya but we won’t have the military resources to do much about it, just like the Europeans.
I’ve answered your post because apologists like you for the Europeans and the South Koreans are out there. Time for people like you to come up with ideas on how these countries defend themselves for a change now they WE are broke and getting poorer by the year.
Nice takedown. You forgot to include that the interest payments to the chinese our our debt will outfit their planned fleet of aircraft carriers, to the tune of one per year over the next 20 years. And he’s wondering why need to bases in Japan and elsewhere to protect shipping lanes? Gimme a break.
Sweet! Techno now has both his hands filled with his own ass. Great job!
“You made about five different assertions in one statement and all of them are quite wrong.”
Uh-huh.
“For starters, our big push to stay in Okinawa was made during THE COLD WAR”
The cold war has been over for about 20 years. The bases are still there, and the US resists any negotiations to remove them. Japan probably could look after itself if it wanted to – they’re technically quite a capable country, with quite driven citizens and a sizeable population. And yet the bases stay.
“…especially since the Japanese can more than handle any current threat that’s in the area … we could always move ships and resources back into the area if needed.”
So why are the bases still there, if they’re not needed?
“As for our Allies buying weapons from Europe, well it just seems that most of the cutting-edge technology is coming from the United States, NOT Europe”
That might (or might not) be so. I’m not arguing about how good the eurofighter might be – that’s beside the point.
“As for South Korea making an allience with North Korea, they’ve been there, tried that”
I did SAY it was unlikely. My point was that south korea, left to its own whims, might not make decisions that suit the US’ regional interests. There are plenty of other possibilities. I’m not saying this is the next big thing to happen, or that it’s imminent, it’s just a consideration.
“As for waking the Europeans up at night with jet aircraft, my heart really “bleeds” for them. Hey, bud, there is a very quick way to put a stop to that. Close those American bases and bring everybody back to the United States”
Actually, that really WAS more a cold war thing. But history shows that it’s quite hard for a country to get rid of a US base once it’s established. Germans didn’t necessarily WANT those bases there – they really had no choice. But having those bases has been extraordinarily useful to the US while prosecuting the wars in iraq and afghanistan.
“And we certainly do NOT need to be defending the Germans or the French. They are big boys and girls now and should get stuck with the bill of defending their own countries.”
I agree.
“But please, don’t make our global defense of these ungrateful nations out to be any major “up side” for us. We did it for a common defense during the Cold War and we do it now to protect trading partners”
And why do you protect them, if that’s not an “up side”?
“I’ve answered your post because apologists like you for the Europeans and the South Koreans are out there. Time for people like you to come up with ideas on how these countries defend themselves for a change now they WE are broke and getting poorer by the year.”
All the US needs to do is start withdrawing. I don’t personally want to see that happen, but I don’t think it will anyway. The reason why is that as the US pulls back from its bases and centers around the world, other emerging powers will step in. Nobody is making the US do what it does – the US does it because it is in its own interests. That’s all I’m saying.
And you’re not broke because of defence spending. You’re broke because somebody let the banking system corrupt itself and get loaded down with make-believe assets.
See, Techno, your entire premise is based on a false assumption. If the United States had not intervened in Korea during the 50s THERE WOULD BE NO SOUTH KOREA. South Korea owes its entire existence to the United States. Thus, “if South Korea were left to its own whims” North Korea would have annexed it into the People’s Democratic Republic of Korea years ago. Indeed, I wonder what the look on Psy’s face would if instead of being invited to perform at the Christmas Party in Washington Obama had said that he was pulling all troops from the demilitarized zone by the end of 2013. Then I wonder if Psy would be singing about killing them yankees and their women and children.
Hmm. Probably not. The communists might not have headed that far south, for one thing. Without the UN intervention it would have probably just ended up being an administrative region of china. Without the war to build a theocracy around, north korea probably wouldn’t exist (in its current form) either. Heck – without the chinese getting involved, the whole penisula might have remained a japanese asset. It’s just speculation.
Re:
…..”I think I’m done with the world. It’s not just this idiot, it’s how the entire world treats the United States like a fool and a villain. Maybe it’s time to pull all of our troops out of every nation that we currently protect and cut them all loose. No more military protection. No more disaster relief. No more foreign aid. Nothing. We take care of our own and no one else.”
Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
It seems we have gone too long since the last culling of blithering idiots and pacifists. These people are nihilists in the extreme. Give them what they beg for. Let us pull back and raise the draw bridge. It will be less than a year before the pisants and perpetually aggrieved begin the wailing and gnashing of teeth because they are being decimated by the predator nations of the world.
Then we can begin renewed with those who survive and appreciate just what the U.S. brings to the world table.
Oh, and move the U.N. to some nation in the M.E. and what the hilarity that ensues.
I just hope the Zero doesn’t perform his bowing act to Psy. (Unfortunately it’s not just the “world” outside America who comprise the ingrates, and all the smug anti-America haters — it’s comprises a good percentage of people residing inside America — including the current WH occupier).
to each other, and then kiss, watch and see
“While I’m grateful for the freedom to express one’s self I’ve learned there are limits to what language is appropriate and I’m deeply sorry for how these lyrics could be interpreted.”
I dunno. The lyrics: “Kill those Yankees who ordered them to torture/Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers/Kill them slowly and painfully” don’t leave much room for alternative interpretations.
From the stuff that I read, the translation is a little bit off. Some of his lyrics have racial component to it such as when he raps about ‘Yankees’ and killing ‘Yankees’ daughters and wives and mothers, Yankee actually would be translated better as ‘White b*tches’ and ‘big-noses’ (a racial term that Koreans use against Whites).
As for the 2002 accident in which 2 girls were killed… As a Korea watcher, I remember how enraged I was with the Korean reaction to it. Pretty much all of the bad stuff happened quite a bit of time after the actual incident. The American army already apologized to the families, paid compensation and held a vigil for the two girls. Fed by a tide of nationalism from the success of the South Korean soccer team in the world cup, something that should have only riled up some student organizations and perhaps some of the leftist union guys took the country by storm. I mean flag ripping/burning, signs outside of restaurants not welcoming Americans and song talking about Americans in the most vulgar of terms were the milder stuff.
It also ended up changing a presidential election. The South Korean presidential election was going on that year and one of the candidates took full advantage of the tragedy and won the election. I sometimes wonder if Roh Moo-hyun did not become the South Korean president but instead someone a bit more centrist took the presidency, would the 5 party talks been more successful? Maybe not, but when I read reports on some of the things his administration was doing in those talks, I just shake my head and wonder if he really was president of a US ally.
Anyway, Psy is from a rich family and married into an even richer family and his recent rise to fame should make him richer still. Hopefully he has grown up a lot in 10 years.
What to do with the world…
If we “withdraw” from everything, do the bad guys take over? If the bad guys take over, are we up against the world? Isolationist countries, not in the shadow of larger countries offering them protection, have rarely fared well over the long term. Are we big enough enough, do we have the will to play badass defense for 100 years?
Do we project our power? What do we get in return? Is the current state of affairs the best we can hope for, lacking leadership, will, and a long term plan or goal? More than half of the country voted “in” santa and voted “out” any notions of fiscal responsibility (whatever THAT is, says the crowd). On all points, domestic and transnationally, this administration and legislature have weakened us at every opportunity.
We lack for shared goals and cohesiveness. On the plus side, that means we aren’t all brain dead. The only thing that will forge those attributes across the spectrum in a positive way isn’t just a crisis, but an apocalyptic event. 9/11 didn’t strengthen us, it weakened us. Providence, if it manifests itself, will be paid for in, at least, hundreds of thousands of lives. It is a terrible thing to have strayed thus from realities of all sorts, that we should be dragged back to square so ferociously.
Sorry, one “enough” in the 1st paragraph would be enough. Any chance for edit feature in future?
One “enough” in 1st paragraph, please.
“Maybe it’s time to pull all of our troops out of every nation that we currently protect and cut them all loose. No more military protection. No more disaster relief. No more foreign aid. Nothing. We take care of our own and no one else.”
I thought Republicans were supposed to be the adults. Republican isolationism worked out so well in the 1930s … why don’t we try it again?
Marc, I have a feeling that he was just venting. Very few of us really would support a complete withdrawal from the world, but a large-scale pulling back wouldn’t hurt at all – in fact, some 3rd world economists think it would actually help. An incredible book on this subject is “Dead Aid” by Zambian economist Dambiso Moyo. Most everyone who follows PJM would find it very elucidating.
I’ve watched too many times (while assisting in the distribution of the money, alas) our aid disappear down 3rd world ratholes, buying Mercedes and Range Rovers and homes in Europe and Cape Town, all for the political class and their connected friends and families. I remember the Foreign Minister in a country whose national budget was 70% foreign aid, when questioned about the corruption, tell me to my face that you don’t get to tell us how to spend OUR money. Our money, she said. And she was one of the US-educated good ones. Some are going to say that this is just an anecdotal example. I say to that, talk to anyone who has worked in the 3rd world diplomatic field. It will become much more than merely anecdotal. Multiply their stories by the 1000s and one can get a good idea of the depth of the problem. And the problem is not all coming from the State Dept. Military aid is still foreign aid, it just gets disguised under that. Too many here at PJM reflexively give the Pentagon a pass too often. They are a big chunk of our problem.
I hope that you don’t think I’m coming after you. From reading so many of your comments on PJM I believe that you have a strong and balanced grasp on things. I am just using a reply to your comment because it is a good springboard to make this point.
Independent Dem – Thanks for your comment and kind words. I think we are mostly in agreement and would make the following comments in dialogue with you:
1. I enjoy our host’s work here and at Hotair. He’s been stalwart in the struggle to broadcast an alternative POV on policy and culture. I suspect he was venting, to some extent. But if he was venting that was a bit irresponsible. I understand that this was a single blog post on PJM, but BP has a somewhat influential platform. Our times are intellectually and morally nebulous, chaotic and fragile so opinion makers should take care not to seem to endorse crank ideas such as isolationism.
2. Your comments about US foreign aid ring true to me and it sounds like you have impressive field experience. I had some involvement in counter-corruption in COIN operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and spent a fair amount of time with alternately smarmy and blustering local officials who were happy to serve us all the chai we could drink as long as we didn’t step on the money train financing their condo in Dubai. Your account is relevant although I would also say that the experiences of countries such as South Korea are good examples of the success of a policy of US engagement.
3. I also have a bit of a problem with U.S. persons getting on a high horse about corruption given that over the past several years in Iraq and Afghanistan we’ve established a track record of asking locals to come out and stand with us at the risk of the lives of their families and then announcing that we are withdrawing, ASAP. I imagine some Afghan senior officials are thinking, “Thanks to Allah. I was right to skim my vig off USAID projects. I put it on the line to fight on the side of the Americans. Now they are skedaddling and my Dubai bank account will be the life-line for my family when the Taliban come looking for us”.
4. Along those lines, what do you think of our broken (or delayed) promise to provide a light attack aircraft to the Afghan air force to help them fight the Taliban and prevent a return of AQ? An excellent aircraft was selected, the Super Tucano (http://defensetech.org/2012/02/28/air-force-cans-super-tucano-light-attack-contract/). But procurement was sidelined at the last minute, apparently due to “K street” pressure from a competing US aircraft manufacturer. It would be a challenge for me to explain to the Afghan Army brigade commander whose men are dying for lack of CAS how important it is for him to embrace American standards of clean government.
Best regards to you, Independent Dem. America needs your tribe to increase so we can once again have a plausible two party system.
I don’t believe that the Afghans are either worthy or capable of receiving CAS planes whether they be Tucanos from Brazil or Beechcraft from Kansas. Hell, for all we know they’ll use them as crop dusters on the poppy fields. And no, I’m not being sarcastic. The government will fall eventually, three months or three years after we leave. In the meantime I CAN see their using these CAS planes against US! Don’t you know that the Taliban are currently screening their ranks for flying school recruits.
“Don’t you know that the Taliban are currently screening their ranks for flying school recruits(sic)”.
Umm … no I don’t. Is Jill Kelley forwarding Gen. Allen’s emails to you?
In any case, my point about the Tucanos is that it’s an example of the US breaking a (big) promise to the Afghans, apparently so that Hawker-Beechcraft and lobbyists can feather their nests … and we lecture the Afghans about corruption …
…
Having lived in South Korea over the past three years, every time someone criticizes the U.S., I explain to them that one of the true glories of being an American is not caring what the rest of the world thinks.
Amen, Dave@14.
I also seem to remember that getting out and protesting the presence of American troops in their country is something of a national pastime for Koreans. All the cool kids do it, I’m sure. Let’s cut the guy some slack; he probably wrote that song to impress some bird he was trying to nail.
Plus, let’s not forget that he’s a CELEBRITY – you all may have noticed, but there aren’t a lot of deep thinkers found in that particular species.
Not interested in cutting some lefty entertainer some slack. Because of conservative passitivty (as seen in numerous posts here), our culture is in a condition where people emtionally think its cool to be a statist.
Conservatives have a disease where we cut the other side slack and view them in the best light. The favor is never returned. I propose a new kind of conservative. A fighting conservative who does not go along with the cultural assumptions laid out by the left.
Psy’s anti America rap reflected Obama’s sentiment. Thus the White house invite.
right on the head, hikerdude.
You sound like a real xenophobe in this one, Mr. Preston. So all the nations that are pro-American and have pro-American populations (Israel, Australia and others) need be cut loose? Your problem. This guy is responsible for his words – not all of South Korea and not anyone else. Grow up.
Get our troops out of South Korea and only keep pre-deplyed heavy equipment in country with their maintenance crews. If the Rok troops cannot keep the North at bay for the 10 hours it would take to deploy US troops from the mainland you have to question their capabilities.
So if we’re out of money and can’t afford to sustain the 47% of our internal population who are unable to care for themselves, why on earth don’t we pull back funds from places like Egypt (and South Korea) and the UN, and funnel those dollars through to Detroit and Atlanta? In raising taxes on the rich, Obama is merely seeking to continue funding Saudi Arabia’s military, Germany’s ability to stay in the EU, and England’s pretty-much-everything.
That’s a bit harsh. I’m not British, but the US prop up the UK. Britain maintains its own nuclear deterrent, after all. And no-one could accuse their soldiers of being soft.
For all the facile, self-indulgent anti-americanism of the French, at least you can say the same for them.
I meant, “the US doesn’t prop up the UK”
Re:
“I meant, “the US doesn’t prop up the UK”…”
…….any longer……but good grief!, for how long after WWII, during those long postwar years of still acute shortages and rationing, when B.O.A.C., the initials of British Overseas Airways Corporation, was snarkily said to be the acronym for “Bring Over American Cash”.
How the Brits needed the money, but, oh, how they resented that it came from us mere Americans.
Those of us of a certain age can recall that the Brit attitude towards us Americans at the build-up for the 1944 Normandy invasion was, “Over-fed, over-paid, over-sexed, and over here.”
I don’t the US was giving cash to Britain in the postwar years.
Perhaps you’re thinking of lend-lease. Cut the Brits some slack – they did face a brutal, mudrderous enemy on their own for several years. You seem to think that FDR should have just let them rot and be overrun by Hitler. well you’re entitled to that opinion.
But I agree, the Brits got a great deal out of Lend-Lease, which they finished paying off only a few years back – having got the stuff at an enormous discount in the first place. And I agree with you totally, those in the democratic west who wallow in knee-jerk anti-americanism, especially those whose countries have the blood of dead American soldiers on their soil, are fools and knaves, no ifs or buts.
No, Mr Preston, the entire world doesn’t regard the US as a fool or a villain, it’s just that the idiots who do have that view make the most noise, and they include, sadly, your own MSM and that of the entire democratic west. However, I completely sympathize with your frustration.
I cannot believe that this moron is going to be received at the White House. That the US as a nation hasn’t said to the President with one voice: “do not meet this man” speaks volumes about moral confusion and loss of nerve — I was going to say, in the US, but it’s the same throughout the west. Though if the same thing had happened in my country, I would hope that we would have risen up as one and said “no”. But probably not.
Let’s imagine that Psy had gone off on a tirade against gay people. It would have read like this. “Kill those gays who have been torturing Iraqi captives/Kill those gays who ordered them to torture/Kill their daughters, mothers, daughters-in-law, and fathers/Kill them slowly and painfully.” Had he said this there would be no acceptance of any apology from the left. There would be no absolution. He would simply have been labeled an enemy-for-life of the liberal state. The thing about Psy is that he let out his five minutes of hate on an accepted enemy, the American military and military families. That’s what makes it okay for the left. They can easily forgive his violent anti-American lyrics because they don’t view them as much of an offense. I would have much preferred if the politicians would have taken a stand against this America-hating creep. Great song hater, now go away. Visa denied.
Erm … was there a particular problem with “gays” torturing and killing iraqi prisoners back in 2004?
No, and neither was there a problem with the US killing and torturing Iraqi prisoners either (Abu Ghraib hardly rises on the lever of “torture” or “killing”, but then you are of the Left so both terms have been watered down to fit the Bush administration within them. What do you call what Obama is doing with Predator drones?).
“and neither was there a problem with the US killing and torturing Iraqi prisoners either”
If saying it made it true …
There was indeed a problem, and that’s the problem. Too many people can attest to it, and there are too many photographs for the denial approach to work. The best anyone can say is that it wasn’t official policy (and you’re doing well if you can get away with that), but it still happened.
“If saying it made it true …”
Projection much, Techno? The only person who you’re convincing is yourself.
How nice that you didn’t even address the question about Obama’s actions vis-a-vis the war on terror so let me ask you another one? Let’s say that everything you’ve said about Bush is true (the torturing, the killing, the Abu Ghraib all that). If that’s the case, why hasn’t Obama done anything to arrest Bush or any other Bush administration officials? We all know the answer right after the Holder Justice Department declared that none of the Bush Administration officials were breaking any laws.
Nice try, Tekkie Wekkie, but your argument’s all wet.
“Projection much, Techno? The only person who you’re convincing is yourself.”
I have yet to see anyone post a convincing response to my comments about abu ghraib – so far it’s just been “la la la not true not true”
As for your “but what about obama?” tactic … sorry, not interested. I _can_ see some reasons why obama shouldn’t go after bush – (1) it re-establishes a nasty precedent (the dems could have gone tit-for-tat for clinton, but they haven’t), (2) there’s no public appetite for it, and the country has better things to be dealing with, and (3) I’m not sure that bush can be prosecuted for things done in office except by congress anyway – and even if he was banged-to-rights criminal, there aren’t the numbers to make it happen. But it’s beside the point.
My comments were about the context for PSY’s comments, and why the world was angry about US actions in the war on terror. I don’t have to “convince myself” about what happened in afghanistan and iraq, because it’s already well documented by others. I don’t think _anyone_ serious can believe that bagram or abu ghraib didn’t happen. It happened. The world saw it. It made people angry.
Thank your media friends in Hollywood and NY. And remember this next time there’s an advert for a new Hollywood movie they want you to pay to see. And remember this next time your cable TV bill comes in. As if you didn’t already have enough reason not to fund them.
Lotsa idiots opposed the Iraqi War, One and Two.
Had we actually finished the Cheney Plan and conquered Iran and Syria the invasion would have been worth the cost of replacing Saddam.
Since our will failed and we (barely) defeated the Bathists, the invasion, after the fact, was not worthwhile.
Just wanted to add: Kill all terrorist sons of bitches.
Why is Obama even meeting him? The president must not have anything important to do. Maybe they can count the number of Christmas trees in the White House.
I would not let either one of them into my house, or my white house, They are both America haters, and have no good intentions, being there at all. So I say to hell with them both. And Merry Christmas, and Happy Hannakuh, to everyone else.
Psy is just an OWS flavored nobody S. Korean rapper whose song making fun of the “Korean 1%” miraculously became a viral hit in the US. Sure the tune is J-pop catchy and the dance is imitatibly goofy (ala several other dance crazes), but the intent of “Gungnam Style” wasn’t to become popular. It was to condemn the rich living it up while the poor didn’t have their fair share.
It backfired for Psy and it did become popular, and it’s make him a lot of money with the exposure. He’s now become the sellout pop entertainer of the moment, and like most sellouts he has to eat his earlier “principled anti-wealth and anti-west” words to keep raking in the dough.
The moral of the story, don’t buy the OWS BS. Given a change of circumstances almost everyone of them would drop the anti-success rhetoric and take the money as well if given the chance. It isn’t about their “principles”. It is about their jealousy of those who have, or their “guilt” for having too much for their “principles” to not seem like hypocracy.