In Defense of the Pit Bull
Today, October 27, is National Pit Bull Awareness Day. Whether you are for pits or against them, it’s important to remember, in this election season, that these dogs were once a proud symbol of American virtue and valor, appearing in World War I propaganda posters as an emblem of our country’s courage.
All month long, dog advocates have been working hard to get the word out that at many animal shelters across this country, as many as 90 percent of the deserving dogs awaiting adoption are all-American pit bulls or pit mixes. And yet too often these dogs are overlooked or given a wide berth because potential adopters are so terrified by horror stories about pit bulls they’ve heard in the mainstream media — which, as we’ve seen before, doesn’t spill much ink on, or give much air time to, pits who perform heroic deeds or spread cheer at hospitals and nursing homes; sensational stories about dog attacks are deemed more “newsworthy.”
Surprisingly, one major mainstream media player has taken a huge step to help raise awareness of pit bulls: Hugely popular, handsomely compensated Sirius XM talk-show host Howard Stern, one of the MSM’s most powerful players (if not its MVP), leveled criticism at Philadelphia Eagles quarterback and convicted animal abuser Michael Vick over Vick’s decision to acquire a pet dog (the type and gender of which has not been revealed).
Here are some choice excerpts from Stern’s rant:
“Well, when I saw the news I was dumbfounded. It baffles the mind, really. Here’s what you gotta think: Everything has calmed down for this guy, he’s got his career back on track … things are quiet. So, instead of keeping things quiet, the way he should, he decides he’s going to get a dog. I mean, what the [expletive] is that all about? It’s like if somebody is convicted for being a child molester then moves next door to a playground — you don’t do it…. Michael Vick should never own a pet.”
“This is no different than Rihanna getting back together with Chris Brown. You sit there and go, What kind of crazy move is this?”
“Get the dog away from him. There should have been something written where he could never own a dog. You know, it’s like if I was convicted of taking five Koreans and locking them in my basement and making them sex slaves, then I get out and the first thing I do is move a Korean in with me.”
“Isn’t there someone in his life that says, ‘Listen, Michael, You’re a dopey guy, you’re a big, dumb [expletive] jock. You’re a football player. Let me think for you. You cannot have a dog. You can’t have a cat. You can’t have a hamster, you [expletive]! You blew it. If you really want a pet, it’s not in this lifetime. And your kids when they get older can get one.’”
“I mean, no one sits this guy down, from a p.r. standpoint? This [expletive] guy should not be around dogs. He’s got a hostility to these dogs. I don’t know what happened in his life, but he shouldn’t be allowed to be near a … it’s crazy.”
“I mean, why would he stir this up? He’s insane. This guy’s insane, that’s all. Of course he’s insane. Who could look at a little dog and kill it? That [expletive] maniac.”
Stern was, of course, responding to the outrage felt by many of this country’s animal lovers, who were appalled to learn — via a Twitter photo of Vick’s young daughter doing her homework at the family kitchen table, an image that was quickly photoshopped to redact a telltale box of Milkbone biscuits in the background — that Vick is now a dog owner again, despite having pleaded guilty, in 2007, to the federal felony of dogfighting. Among Vick’s more heinous acts during his stewardship (if such it may be called) of Bad Newz Kennels was — by his own admission — hanging, electrocuting, drowning, and savagely beating dogs to death.
I’m no fan of Michael Vick, as I’ve made clear before. Quite the opposite, in fact. But I distinctly recall Howard Stern singing a distinctly different dog tune back in 1988 or 1989, long before he signed his famously lucrative 2006 satellite deal, back when his base was the radio station WXRK.
Hear! Hear! We have a Staffordshire Bull Terrier (AKA Pit Bull) rescue. She’s our second Pitty. The first one, also a rescue, sadly died of cancer. She was only 6. We’ve come to believe that a house is not a home without a Pit Bull. Yeah, they get bad press, some deserved, but the very same trait that makes them such good pets AND fighters is that they will do anything they think their owner wants them to do. Fight? They’ll put their heart into it. Be a gentle, loving member of the family? Yep, they’ll put their heart into that, too. We’ve owned other dogs, but we honestly can’t see ourselves without a Pit Bull. I could go on and on, but enough said. The Pit Bull, whether an American Pitty or Staffy, is an awesome breed.
We had an AmStaff we rescued who was quite sick when we adopted her, and who ultimately did not recover, but she was the loveliest, sweetest dog I’ve ever known, in spite of chronic illness and discomfort. Just a sweetheart through and through.
I’m so very sorry for your loss, Nora. What you describe is typical of the pit: Most veterinarians and vet techs agree these dogs make model patients because, no matter how much terrible pain they’re in, they sweetly cooperate with kind people’s attempts to help make them well. I hope you will consider adopting another pittie soon ~ that would be one very lucky dog.
Too true.
We also adopted an American PitBull/Staffordshire from the SPCA. We knew she liked us after we stopped petting her and she lept into the air into my arms. Seriously.
The vet said she’s the only patient he has who doesn’t stop wagging her tail when she gets her annual shots. We have a hiking backpack, and she carries her dinner and snacks on either side up the trail. She jumps up into the hammock with my son because the night noises scare her. LOL.
This is the dearest dog ever. She’s a 38-lb mix, but she has that brown fur and cute red nose. Can’t say enough nice things about our girl
We have a pitbull mix that we rescued about a year ago as a small puppy. She is the silliest and friendliest dog we have had in a long time. She is also the only dog that will visit the vet and lay on her back to get a tummy rub before she gets examined or shots. We just adore her.
I think you are nuts to have one in the house. I would never have one or any other dangerous dog.
I bet you think Dobermans are ‘dangerous’. They are wonderful, brilliant dogs, smarter than most left wingers I know. Louis Doberman knew what he was doing. But, numbskulls, ‘think’ that since they are used as guard dogs they are inherently vicious. Nothing could be further from the truth. These heroic animals saved an untold number of American lives in the Pacific in WWII, and not because of their ferocity. See, Dobies are a cross of several different breeds, each chosen for a specific quality. Dobes have a very keen sense of smell, keener than the average dog because they are part Weimaraner, a renowned hunting breed. Anyway, they were able to sniff out the enemy and alert the Marines of the Japs presence, thereby preventing ambushes and saving lives. They were so adept that there is a monument to their heroic service at Point Orote Naval Base in Guam.
It is not the breed which is dangerous, it is the way the dog is trained. It is the fault of the owner. Mike Vick should never be allowed to own a dog.
“I think you are nuts to have one in the house. I would never have one or any other dangerous dog.”
And yet you drive a dangerous car, on the dangerous roads, have dangerous poisons in your house, probably where your children can get to them, eat unhealthy / dangerous foods, perhaps live a dangerous lifestyle of drinking and smoking, staying too long in the sun while tanning, and getting no exercise. Hmmm?
Dogs (and humans) should be judged on their actions, not breed.
I have trained hunting dogs and pets. I could make any breed vicious, if I were that type of idiot. Every dog we’ve owned (all of them over 80 lbs.) has been obediant and well behaved. All of the dogs were protective of the family as well. Singling out the pit bulls with laws and fear mongering is just plain ignorant.
Amen. Another reason to appreciate Old School Conservatives
Unstable dogs tend to be purposely acquired by unstable people, it ends up a bad combination.
Your assumption that the pit bull is inherently unstable is irrational – they are no more unstable than any other dogs. Pit bulls are like any other breed – you can mold them into whatever you wish within reason. An unstable human tends to gravitate towards pit bulls as a status symbol. Pit bulls in my opinion are more receptive to the wishes of their owner than many other dogs – thats where the trouble begins.
I wish I had a larger yard – I’d probably have another pit bull. My last one died a couple of years before I retired – and she broke my heart when she did. She was a very loving and wonderful dog – minded better than my kids – and never ever growled at or bit anyone! She’d lick you to death given the chance. 60 pounds of sheer joy!!!
Since retiring I’ve downsized many things – the yard and the size of my dog – among other things. I now have a very blind and very loving rat terrier rescued from the local animal shelter. He is laying on the recliner between my legs as I type this – keeps me warm – and I’m sure he loves being warm too. He must have had quite a string of bad luck prior to our first meeting – one eye totally gone and the other damaged beyond any hope of repair. He didn’t let that stop himself from trying to jump up on me – licking every chance he had. I could not refuse. He’s every bit the dog as any other and small enough for the yard I have. And at 12 pounds fits the doggy door! Finds his way around very well and seldom runs into anything. I like to think he has the heart of a pit bull.
As Roger Caras once said:
“Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
If you don’t have a dog you won’t know what you are missing.
I’ve owned pit bulls since the late 70s. We wouldn’t have any other breed. But they are not for everybody. Unstable people sshould not own them. I would surmise that problem pits can be traced to problem people. It’s certainly 100% in my personal observation. Pits are a dog fighting dog bred down from a tall, heavy bull fighting dog. The English bull dog comes from the same ancestor, but it was bred way down by a group of little old ladies to the point that it can’t run, jump or even breathe normally. The pit, on the other hand, is an extraordinarily athletic animal. I’ve had mine jump over a six foot fence, go two limbs up a tree after a squirrel and maul a testy adult raccoon.
You have to socialize pits as a pup if you want to avoid unplanned fights. We go way out of our way to introduce ours to other dogs. The result is an animal with a very mild temperment. I don’t worry about ours being attacked by other dogs. If it happens and it has, the pit will fight like it’s breed and defend himself, always coming out on top. It does take a couple days to get his temperment back. Dogs can get upset just like people.
Don’t get a pit for personal protection. Get a rotweiller, pincher or shepherd. The pit is a dog fighting dog, not a people biter by nature. They do make good security dogs. I train ours to bark a very deep bark and he sounds four times as big behind the door. His hearing is very acute and his job is to alert me. After all, I’m the one who does the shooting around here. If you are a gun owner I would suggest getting your dog used to gunfire so he doesn’t head for the closet at the first shot.
Pits are great with kids. If you have devoloped a good temperment in yours they will take unbelievable abuse from kids and just walk away when the abuse becomes unsufferable. We had a live in sitter recently while we were in Europe. She brought along her pit and two year old brat. When we got back I saw the kid push my dog away from his food and throw the food around and dump his water over. He took it in stride. If I were a dog I would have eaten that kid. But ours put up with it for a couple of weeks and actually still likes that kid. Sheesh.
Nice post – thank you!
good comment, but I must correct you on something. you said:
“Pits are a dog fighting dog bred down from a tall, heavy bull fighting dog.”
Actually that is not true. Pits were used as bull dogs by the poor irish and english who could not afford horses to control their cattle. A pit bull would go into the herd and wrestle down cattle and hold them to be slaughtered, castrated, branded, whatever. But the dogs themselves were relatively small. I’ve got several books from the late 1800′s, early 1900′s showing champion pits. Most females were 40-50 pounds, males 10 pounds heavier. Not nearly as big as some of the muscle-bound freaks bread today.
The pitbull was not recognized by the AKS so a man in Salt Lake City started the USKC just for pit bulls. The first registered pitbull in the US was Petey from “The Little Rascals”. The original RCA dog was a pit bull, Buster Brown shoes’ mascot was a pit bull. I believe Teddy Roosevelt had pits, and so was Little Orphan Annie’s companion a pit bull. They are truly America’s dog
Hmmmm. Where’s the “Thumbs up” button around here??? This post really needs one.
IIRC, the vast majority of dog attacks are caused by pits or rotts but the even vaster majority are caused by unfixed males.
The conclusion I take from that is that it really isn’t the breed but the owner.
Your wrong on both counts. Those statistics that you have gotten your info from have been cooked up by very lefty organizations with an anti dog agenda. BTW, neutering has absolutely no affect on a pit bulls fighting. The only thing that fixing can possibly do is to dampen territorial aggression. Pis do NOT fight out of territorial aggression. That’s a myth promoted by agenda driven organizations. Pit Bulls fight because, for them, fighting is fun. BTW, I have 25 years experience working with Bully breeds, and 40 with dogs in general, including rehabilitating badly abused animals.
More than 70 percent of all dog bite cases involve unneutered male dogs.
– ASPCA
A CDC study of fatal dog attacks from ’79-’98 indicated that either pits or rotts or their mixes were involved in at least a third of them and were the top two breeds.
I’m not picking on pits, btw. I’m pointing out that tough-guy wannabes will get pits and not neuter them making them more dangerous which will cause the breed to be involved in a disproportionate number of attacks.
I already knew were you had gotten your information. Every time I get into this discussion, someone trots them out. As I wrote, I have been involved with bully breeds for 25 years. I remember very well the war on pit bulls waged by the MSM during the early seventies and later in the mid 80′s. It was the later, along with a few other obviously coordinated campaigns, that alerted me to the techniques used by the MSM to promote their lefty agenda.
Both of the organizations you referred to have produced “studies” specifically to be used in anti-dog, anti-pit bull propaganda, timed to be useful in getting forced neutering and breed specific legislation passed. The ASCPA numbers were a joke and The CDC study was deliberately deceptive in its statistical significance. I already told you why neutering has absolutely no effect on pit bulls tendency to fight. The only thing that has any effect is training starting at a young age ( 13 weeks is good). Your preconceived notions ill equip you to understand the motivations of a pit bull. The Bully breeds really are not like any other group of breeds, just like the flock guardian breeds (CAS’s etc.), which are also a group that is not like any other group.
You’re saying that a neutered male dog is every bit as aggressive as one that hasn’t been fixed, and that the CDC was cooking data as a conspiracy to wipe out pits.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
Me, I think if a breed becomes fashionable among the thug wannabes that breed will be:
A. have a lot of unfixed males
B. wind up being responsible for most serious dog attacks.
What you don’t see in those CDC statistics (and you know what they say about statistics and those who use them!) is WHO owned the dog that caused the attacked. More specifically what kind of person was it? Punk kid? Quite often thats the case. Unstable? Probably. Too bad those statistics don’t give us the demeanor of the humans that own those dogs. I think it would be eye opener.
It seems counter intuitive that the CDC would allow bias in their reports but I believe it to be true. I think their motives were pure – how to keep these breeds out of the hands of unstable wacko people. I think they just went about it the wrong way. Maybe anyone not eligible to buy a gun shouldn’t own one of these ‘vicious’ dogs? That is something I can get behind.
A study, published this week in the journal Applied Animal Behaviour Science, with researchers questioning 6000 dog owners had some surprising conclusions.
The dog breed most likely to bite was not the Pit Bull, Rottweiler, or German Shepherd, but …wait for it…the Dachshund. And second was the Chihuahua, followed by the Jack Russell Terrier.
Previous research into dog aggression has focused primarily on dog bite statistics, but researchers said that these are misleading since most dog bites are not reported. Furthermore, bites from small dogs are less likely to require medical attention and are almost never reported.
Breeds scoring low for aggression included Basset Hounds, Golden Retrievers, Labradors, Siberian Huskies and Greyhounds.
The Rottweiler, Pit Bull and Rhodesian Ridgeback scored average or below average marks for hostility towards strangers.
July 09, 2008
More than 70 percent of all dog bite cases involve unneutered male dogs.
– ASPCA
All that proves is that 70% of all male dogs are un-neutered. By those stats, I could just as easily say that neutering male dogs causes 30% of them to become viscous.
A CDC study of fatal dog attacks from ’79-’98 indicated that either pits or rotts or their mixes were involved in at least a third of them and were the top two breeds.
well known CDC agenda against dogs.
Greetings:
I’ve been a runner several times a week for the last 40 years so I come into contact with a fair number of dogs and their owners (not companions, not guardians, owners). My admittedly anecdotal analysis goes like this: about one-third of owners meet their civic responsibilities; another one-third is correctible on demand; the remaining one-third is beyond reach or responsibility. And about one-third of that last one-third seem to have affinities for tattoos, piercing, and multiple large dogs which makes them somewhat easy to identify while at a trot.
I have never come to a conclusion that pit bulls, as a breed, are more of a problem than their owners or any other breed.
Diffrence is that the pitt bull can kill you.
As opposed to a German Shepard, A Doberman, A Rottweiler? Any large breed can be trained to kill and no, Pits are not naturally inclined to do so.
A german shephard is quite simply not in the same league: shepherd not fighting dod. Jaw pressure far lesser. Same thing with dobermann. Don’t know about rottweiler but it was a bouvier not a fighting dog.
A shepherd can’t kill you? Thanks for the info. I’ve been wondering what made the breed so popular with police and military forces, now I know it’s their harmlessness that does it.
Bottom line is there are no bad breeds, only bad owners. Pit Bulls have suffered, unjustly, because a certain type of scumbag finds them desirable.
JFM, I think you don’t understand the problems and advantages of pit bulls. Pit bulls are very muscular, but they’re only about 50 lbs and relatively easy to pick up off the ground. Guard dogs like German Shepards weigh more and therefore can do more damage.
The real problem is pit bulls were bred to fight other dogs and win. However, they were also bred not to bight their human handler. Pit bulls are more dog aggressive than average and incredibly tenacious. As a result, responsible pit bull owners need to be very careful how they introduce their pit bull to other dogs. They’re not for everyone, but banning them makes as much sense as banning “assault” rifles. Both are cases of emotional people banning something because it looks bad ass, not because the particular gun or dog is really more dangerous than other types.
One thing I really like about pit bulls is their very short haired coat. Less hair to shed and less trouble with heat. They also seem to have a big outgoing personality.
JFM…you could not be more wrong. The power of the pit bull’s jaws is one of the many myths that surround this breed, in addition to Rotties, Dobies, GSDs, etc. For THE authority on dog bites and dog bite fatalities, please go to Karen DeLise’s website, The National Canine Research Council.
Unfortunately, popularity is a death sentence for pets in this country. Every year, we “euthanize” 8 million companion animals. This is approximately 22,000 animals EVERY DAY! Spay. Neuter. Adopt from a local rescue or shelter. I currently have 5 purebred dogs in my house – all of them from shelters – and all of them wonderful. And please do not think you need to get a dog as a puppy. Older dogs are much easier to train and socialize. I speak from experience.
There are several breeds that have stronger jaws than pits. The Roty has the highest of them all. Its also a myth that Pits lock there jaws when they get a hold of its opposition.
Pits are awesome dogs and love their families very much. Our Pit is now 5 we are guessing. We rescued him when he was only 1 month old was the estimate. He was sick and scared. Today, he is 90lbs of pure muscle. He is a perfect brute. By far the most athletic dog I have ever had and by far the smartest.
I’m sorry, but you’re very ill-informed.
Baloney. There are bad breeds.
Chihuahuas, for example. Sniveling, shivering, yapping little ankle biters. A waste of protoplasm. Blech.
Pekinese aren’t any better. Dust mops that poop. Fooey.
oh no, Pekinese are great dogs for joking: During the cultural revolution for some reason Chinese Red Guards mounted parades against France referring to the French as “Dogs”. De Gaulle commented: “It is funny to be called a dog by Pekinese.”
any dog over 30-40 lbs can kill a human. even coyotes only way 30-40 lbs and coyotes can kill cows that certainly weigh more than a person. Generally a pack of dogs is the problem not a single dog.
any individual dog over 30 lbs can kill you. I’ve seen 30 lb coyotes kill cows that weighed several hudred lbs.
Generally a pack of dogs is the problem not individual dogs.
however, I would not leave a child alone with any dog, no matter the bread.
Agreed. Especially not sourdough. My wife makes great sourdough, from scratch, and the kids eat it like candy.
I’m a little afraid of these dogs, but I’m afraid of Dobermens too. Here’s a cute story about a pitbull that was thrown in the trash. Happy ending though.
Forgive me, it’s from the Today Show.
http://www.godvine.com/Paralyzed-Puppy-Thrown-in-a-Trash-Can-Gets-Rescued-1127.html
Speaking of “scary” dogs and kids, no breed is better with kids that the Great Dane (which isn’t Danish, btw). People afraid of them don’t know them.
Hounds are mooks, whatever their size. They will chase your ass forever, quite vigorously. They just don’t know quite what to do with you, once they catch you.
I’ve seen packs of hounds chase cats like they meant them death, yet, it is the rare hound who naturally puts their teeth into a cat or even a rabbit.
They mostly corner them and stare at them, howling like bejesus.
They look relieved when you finally call them off, like they weren’t quite sure what to do with them.
I suppose there are bad hounds. I don’t know many.
I had a husky once. They will kill rabbits and eat them. They’re not quite domesticated. They’re fine with kids, but don’t leave them alone with Fluffy.
Agreed, my Chow and Boxer and every other dog would chase cats for fun, but only my Siberian Husky would actually try to kill them. To a Siberian Husky anything that’s not a person or a dog is a prey animal.
One of my Pits caught a bobcat! He had it pinned for a second, but didn’t try to bite it or anything. I was freaking out, in that sped up time sort of way when milliseconds stretch out to minutes, thinking about what was going to happen once that ball of muscle and furry got loose. I need not have worried though because the only thing that cat wanted to do once free, was to get as far away as possible from the slobbering monstrosity and do it as fast as possible, which he did, leaving my dog grinning and bouncing and wagging his tail like a maniac. “Boy, oh boy, that was fun! Can we do that again? Can we?”
That happened 20 years ago and I can still see the muscles in that bobcats fore limbs.
I agree with those who say Pitt Bulls can be amazingly loyal and loving pets, but that they require the right owner. We have restrictions on Pitts where I live — all Pitts must be neutered/spayed, and one must apply for special license to breed Pitt Bulls.
The one dog I know is outlawed here is the Presa Canario, and for very good reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Whipple
Great Pyrenees are the best dogs for children. They were breed to guard sheep, so they have a very strong protective instinct and are incredibly tolerant of things kids do.
They bark a lot, though.
One of our doggies is a pitbull-Pyrenees mix, at least that’s what the DNA test says. I suspect there’s some greyhound in the mix because of his ipaint job but he was a stray who followed us home one day and is still with us. Only fight he’s ever been in was when I was walking him on a leash and we were attacked by a labrador. My dog rolled over and went submissive. He’s a real hit with the girls at the vet.
The problem is that the people who are most likely to own them, especially section 8 types, shouldn’t be allowed to have them. Yet, that’s all they want, because they like power and violence, thus their dogs are that way, too.
A pit (or a Rotty) should be like a gun: a responsible person should be able to have one. If they shouldn’t have a gun, they shouldn’t have a dog that can kill you in one bite.
A welfare drug dealing scumbag shouldn’t. Let him get a poodle. I wouldn’t let them have Beagles, either. I love Beagles.
I know many Rotties and Pits who are lovely dogs, but it’s because their masters are lovely people. I even know a Beagle who can’t be trusted with strangers, because he might attack, for reasons unknown. He’s done serious damage to one person who forgave him.
If he was Pit, she’d be dead.
I should state before I say anything else that I am owned by a cat and she tells me that I’m not a dog person.
Having said that, I agree with most of the people here about pit bulls. I’ve known three pit bulls and their owners. Two of them were the nicest creatures on God’s green Earth and would never harm a fly. Of course I’m talking about both the dogs and the owners.
The third dog was owned by a guy who must have had a problem with that part of the male anatomy that sometimes needs to be compensated for. He trained his dog to be intimidating and threatening. His dog was supposed to scare and he did. So when he went a bit over the line and attacked someone he was put down.
All I could think was they should have reformed the dog and put the owner to sleep.
Sadly, it’s probably too late for the dog when it gets to that point.
It’s not the dog’s fault, you say?
True, but at that point, the dog has a lifetime of aggression behind him. He can’t be reformed. He’s dangerous.
Yes, it’s the owner’s fault, but it’s the dog’s teeth that may kill a child.
I have a 12 yr old American Pit Bull. I will never, ever have another breed. I inherited her from my then teen age son who’s plan was to breed her in my garage without my knowledge. Yea right. I discovered her after about 24 hrs. I was terrified even though she was just a baby. I didn’t want to bring her to shelter because I didn’t want her to be put to sleep. With in a day or two of trying to find her a good home, we fell in love, hard. She has never shown any sign of aggression but once while walking her at night I felt like I was being followed and I was frightened. When the man got closer to me, she into full attack mode and he ran away. Her intuition amazed me. I can’t tell you what joy my sweet angel has brought to me. She is my best friend.Everyone who has ever met her,loves her That being said, this breed is so very strong and has the capacity to do so much damage if not raised right. I don’t know how we can be sure that only responsible owners have pit bulls.
The pit is an easy dog to train, but he is learning all the time. Thus you can train him to be a good citizen or a monster. In that respect, they resemble humans.
I have owned pits and Catahoulas and crosses for the last sixty years, and hope to own them for another 60 or so, but one word of caution: they will not tolerate an adult mistreating a child, any child. It is that steadfast loyalty to children and stark fearlessness that can be perverted by mean people and by people who don’t real understand the handling of animals. There are certain breeds of horses and dogs that should only be owned by true and knowledgeable animal people, good intentions are not enough, and often the people with the best intentions have the biggest disasters.
Owning certain breeds requires the owner to realize he has a responsibility both to his dog and other people. I love my pits and “Cats,” but discourage people from owning them, unless they are savvy with animals and willing to invest the time required to train an animal properly.
There are quite a few breeds that need experienced owners who know how to properly socialize and handle them. I had to laugh when I was getting bids for new homeowners insurance because the agent was negative when I said I had a German Shepherd cross. German Shepherds have a reputation for biting, probably because they do have the second most powerful bite after Rotties and they are used so much for police and security work. Also some idiot owners think making them fearful of strangers makes them better guard dogs. When I told the insurance agent the other breed my dog was crossed with that breed was not on their list of problem breeds so they were willing to write the policy. Little do they know about dogs. The Akita is still a fairly rare breed but the Akita half of my dog creates far more challenges than the German Shepherd half. Akitas are large, powerful and very independent minded plus by nature they don’t much like strangers -two and four legged alike. Definitely not for a lot of owners.
I was talking with a vet technician. Guess what breed they most hate to see come into the animal hospital? Chihuahuas! The little fellas are often timid to begin with and many are very poorly socialized because the owner treats it like a baby instead of a dog. The result is a dog that is very quick to bite.
I definitely won’t be too popular after this. First let me say I do not know Michael Vick personally but I know of him because of where I live and my wife works at a veterinary clinic he frequented. I think folks should cut Michael Vick some slack. He did his time in prison for fighting dogs. Even while the dog fighting was going on he had a personal pet bully named Heather. He pampered that girl and she was a frequent visitor to the vet clinic for her routine exams and never showed any sign that she was abused. If he treats his new dog the way he treated Heather I have no problem with him owning a dog again.
Vick should be cut some slack as a human being who served his time and I think I have more respect for him than I do Howard Stern.
Not a chance. That’s no different than a paedophile who is good to his own children. Anyone capable of causing that kind of abuse to another creature – and a helpless one at that – is a psychopath. I wouldn’t let the SOB near a rabid squirrel.
Amen, eaglesoars ~ Vick, that wonderful dog lover, actually had some vet remove every last one of the teeth in the mouth of one of his female pits, Georgia ~ why? so the poor bitch wouldn’t be able to defend herself while being raped by the males he was breeding her with. And some vet actually performed this cruel procedure! Shameful, IMHO.
Male dogs “raping” female dogs… Really?
The apparatus nice, lovely folks like Michael Vick use for dog breeding purposes is charmingly called a “rape rack”
Physically impossible. One needs hands for raping. Humans and chimps are notorious for that.
I’ve spent years where I visited a popular off-leash area nearly every day. Before that experience, I bought into the “pit-bulls are like other dogs” line. Now, I am convinced otherwise. What I saw, many times more than mere coincidence would explain, is this: When ordinary dogs get into a fight, the one who is losing the fight can end it by giving the submission signs. However, if the other dog is a pit-bull, that will not end the fight. Furthermore, pit-bulls go for the throat, latch on, and will not let go until the loser goes limp or bystanders intervene. I saw this often enough that when I would see a fight or face-off involving a pit-bull begin, I would get close enough to club the pit-bull with my Chuck-It should that be necessary. Several times, that was necessary, and the other dog still needed veterinary care.
Pit-bulls were bred to win dog fights. They are not like other dogs.
so the man who carries around and uses nunchucks which are illegal everywhere I know of is someone whose word I trust?
Funny…..you never hear about innocent people being killed by Poodles or Cocker Spaniels …….Hmmm ??
Maybe because nobody trains them to be aggressive? And maybe, even if they did, their lack of size would make them pretty ineffective killers?
I absolutely love the terrier breed, it is so varied and gives a fabulous range, each and every one of them with a solid personality. At 9 I had Foxy Linda, my dog-sister whose approval in choosing girlfriends was essential. If you brought the wrong non-Linda approved person in the house then “Houston we have a problem” is a severe understatement.
Later, out of my parents house I had Mike(y) (he totally and absolutely hated the diminutive) the Airedale. AKA Airhead. He HAD to prove his alpha-male status to every living thing in a range of 50 miles radius.
Owning a terrier is tricky, but once you manage to get ahold they are your equals, and will never, ever settle for anything less.
While the owner is the main thing, dog breeds were developed for different reasons, and it’s reflected not just in their shape and size, but their temperament. Some were meant to guard sheep, like the Great Pyrenees, some to rescue, like the Newfoundland, to retriever, like the various retrievers. Even without training, these dogs have a strong instinct to do that.
Like it or not, terriers and pit bulls and the like were bred to fight and to kill. In the hands of a good owner, does this instinct become a problem? No. But all too often owners buy these dogs because they have that reputation, or by dog owners who are apathetic.
There are some breeds and some individual dogs who should never be taken to off-leash parks. I have the sweetest ex-racing Greyhound imaginable. He is very high prey. I wouldn’t think of taking him to an off-leash park. And, because he is a sight hound, he cannot ever be walked off leash at all. It stands to reason that a breed bred for dog fighting does not belong in an off leash park either. It doesn’t mean they can’t make perfectly lovely pets.
Larry Brasfield is exactly right. Other breeds don’t recognize the pit as a danger and may trigger a fatal, to them, attack just through posture. This happened to a friend when his wife was walking his sweet, rescue pit through his suburban neighborhood. There is no rational reason to breed any dog that is a danger to the community.
A lot of people bought into the media nonsense about the Pit Bull’s 2000+ lb bite. Use a brain people, it’s a smallish dog. While powerful for its size it is only third in breeds for bite strength at about 230 lbs per square inch.
My real pet peeve is with people who buy whatever breed is currently hot without looking past the media hype into the needs of that particular breed. The shelters were flooded with Dalmatians a year after the Disney movie because they aren’t great family pets. I suspect the Portuguese Water Dog Club never had a notice on their site about members needing to be on the lookout for PWD on sale from puppy mills and PWD in shelters before the Obamas got Bo. Working dogs need a job or they can be a destructive handful. As the owner of a rescued Jack Russell that doesn’t play because she’d much rather hunt I suspect a lot of people who got that breed expecting laid back Eddie of Frazier had their hands full and ended up turning a great dog over to a shelter.
My pitbull/akita mix was a good dog. Hated cats. Looked scary, but wasn’t. He would kill skunks, eat them and bring the head back as a “gift” and then look at me as if to say “sorry, I smell funny.” As much as a mixed bag he was, I miss him.
Re: Vick being redeemed, just read the book “Michael Vick’s Dogs” to understand why he should be shunned.
As far as some breeds “having an inbred behavour”, that’s about the most ludicrous belief imaginable. Physical characteristics are genetic and can be bred for, behaviour is learned. The ex-racing greyhound’s behaviour is a product of training, the same dog raised and trained as a pet would have no off-leash problems.
Pit bulls, over a century ago, were “bred” for physical fighting characteristics and trained to fight. At the beginning of the 20th Century the Pitt was the most owned family pet in the U.S.
BTW, dogs only fight out of fear.
It’s always the owner, never the breed.
Thanks for mentioning that book ~ its full title is “The Lost Dogs: Michael Vick’s Dogs and Their Tale of Rescue and Redemption” by Jim Gorant, who also covered the story for Sports Illustrated (in a rare instance of the MSM getting it right about pits) and it’s very well reported and written.
Nonsense, some behavior is genetically ingrained through breeding. Ever seen a cattle dog herd a group of animals without being trained to do it? I have. The A-holes who breed dogs for agression have artificially skewed the normal tendencies of the breed to pass on more aggressive tendencies. Ignoring or misstating facts do not help solve this problem and do not serve the best interests of this breed overall.
Thank you.
The notion that all dogs are blank slates is the ridiculous one. Temperament is inborn, and can be modified by training.
There are lots of dog lovers posting here, so I would like to take this opportunity to inform some of you about a subject that has bothered me for many years. I have lived in a rural area all my life, over sixty years, and this has always been a problem. If you have a dog that you don’t want or can’t keep, DO NOT take it to the country and let it out. Here is what will happen to your dog if you do that: 1)It will find other wild or stray dogs and form a pack. A pack of wild dogs is more dangerous and destructive than any other wildlife. They will pull a calf right out of the birth canal and eat it, not to speak of terrorizing hikers or anyone unarmed in the forest. Unlike coyotes, they will go on a killing spree for fun. For this they get shot or poisoned. 2)If they don’t form a pack they slowly starve, get mange and other diseases, and eventually get eaten by coyotes. 3)Sometimes a caring neighor will try to coax one in and make a pet of it, but if it has been out too long it will probaly not stay, especially if it has a feral partner or pack that it has been running with. 4) If animal control is called they will try to trap the dog and take it to a shelter, where after a while it will be put down, which is what you should have done to begin with and not put my neighorhood to so much trouble. I realize that most of you would not put dogs out. But some people are doing it, otherwise we wouldn’t see so many of them.
Our pit rescued from the streets as a six month old, is a great dog. Gets along well with our other mixed pit, and our young kids. It will definitely bark with meaning when someone comes to the door. Extremely loyal and smart.
What counts is how your dog gets along with innocent strangers, like me for example. If you have a dog that threatens strangers, don’t kid yourself, you are an anti-social human.
No threat, just loud bark here. However, she might lick you to much after meeting you.
Bottom line: if a pit bull wakes up one day and decides to chew somebody’s face off, there’s nothing you can to stop it – except a bullet to the head. And sometimes that doesn’t even work…..
My thoughts exactly. Genetics cannot be conditioned. I’m reminded of idiots who think they can mate a wolf with Rover and give him a play pal, or that genius who decided he’d befriend bears.
Exactly. They don’t have to be “conditioned” to be dangerous. They’re bred to be. No amount of love and attention can change that. When they snap, they snap and that’s it.
Pit bulls were SIMULTANEOUSLY bred to be dog-aggressive and human-passive. A pit bull that bit a human as it was being dragged from a fight with another dog would have been instantly killed. Pit bulls that are not abused are the least nippy and least mouthy of any breed I have ever spent time with, even as puppies. They don’t even “play bite” people, and they never react to unexpected pain by nipping. They are VERY protective of children and put up with anything.
OTOH, they make crappy pets in a household with other animals. They were bred to fight dogs, and most are very dog-aggressive, especially with dogs of the same gender, even if they have been fixed, and growing up together from puppyhood does not help for some of them.
“dog-aggresive” – great new buzz word. Makes us all feel much better about these mindless four-legged brutes. All I know is that an ‘effing pit bull came into my front yard and tried to bite my daughter while she was playing with her friends. Thank God my mutt was there to jump in and allow my daughter to get away. Pit bulls have no business living amongst people.
Agreed. And they’re much more liable to make that “decision” to chew your face off than other breeds. My family has had lots of tenants in the countryside, and pit bulls have been a problem. They go instantly, totally insane, and short of brute violence it’s impossible to get their jaws unlocked when they’re clamped on another animal.
The locked jaw that can’t be opened is as big of a media myth as the 2000 pound per square inch pit bull bite. Again pit bulls are medium-small to medium sized dogs not bionic wonders. Both Rottweilers and German Shepherds have more jaw strength.
Spout your academic stats endlessly. It won’t change the truth.
A breaking stick is the only way to get a Pit bull off. Not a hose, not a shovel, not a “stop it flossie” sometimes not even a bullet will make him turn loose.
while breaking sticks are used, it is certainly not the only way to open a pits mouth. I myself have reached into pit bulls mouths while fighting and pried their mouth open by pushing down on their tongue, forcing the lower jaw open. breaking sticks are easier, but not needed.
to clarify: I was not dog fighting, but I broke up a dog fight involving my dog.
Sticking your hand in the way so it is afraid it might bite you actually works really well. We had to get rid of one of our dogs when it turned out that one of the very small puppies we had adopted as a lab mix was in fact mostly pit. Great with people, could not live with another dog.
Do you moonlight for the MSM, arhooley, or is it your day job ?
Mark
“dog-aggresive” – great new buzz word. Makes us all feel much better about these mindless four-legged brutes. All I know is that an ‘effing pit bull came into my front yard and tried to bite my daughter while she was playing with her friends. Thank God my mutt was there to jump in and allow my daughter to get away. Pit bulls have no business living amongst people.
Nonsense: if the pit was such a mindless brute, how did your mutt stop it, for that matter if the so-called pit didn’t bight you daughter how do you know that was it’s intention? are you the dog-whisperer now?
October 28, 2012 – 10:09 pm Link to this Comment
arhooley
Agreed. And they’re much more liable to make that “decision” to chew your face off than other breeds. My family has had lots of tenants in the countryside, and pit bulls have been a problem. They go instantly, totally insane, and short of brute violence it’s impossible to get their jaws unlocked when they’re clamped on another animal.
Nonsense: the fact that you think their jaws somehow lock proves you are an imbecile.
October 27, 2012 – 10:25 pm Link to this Comment | Reply
nonsense
Get the hell outta here. Yes, some pit-bulls can be charming little creatures. Same as with dobermans. But let’s face it. Pit-bulls and dobermans are not poodles or golden retrievers. It the wrong hands, which is too often the case, they are maimers and killers. I remember walking home from campus one freezing December night and being charged, a couple blocks from my apartment by some crazy-ass doberman. What I did was stop dead in my tracks, speak some soothing words, and back off. Then I did a big box route and managed to find my way safely home.
Look, I realize that these breeds can be lovable and (seemingly) sage. And that’s splendid. But these are also dogs that were bred to attack and maim. And the onus will always be upon the owners to ESTABLISH that their doggie is a nice doggie. But in the mean time, if I am a homeowner, and I have and aggressive, growling/yapping pit-bull or doberman or whatever moving in next door to me and my family? Heh.
The Center for Disease Control once studied dog bite related fatalities. They listed the following breeds as responsible for fatal attacks over the five year period they studied. German Shepherd Dog(16); Husky-type dog (9); Saint Bernard (8); Bull Terrier (6); Great Dane (6); Malamute (5); Golden Retriever (3); Boxer (2); Dachshund (2); Doberman Pinscher (2); Collie (2); Rottweiler (1); Basenji (1);Chow Chow (1); Labrador Retriever (1); Yorkshire Terrier (1); and mixed and unknown breed (15)
Saint Bernards, Goldens, Boxers, Collies and Labs are all widely acclaimed as great family pets but these dogs all killed people. The fact is any dog can become a problem dog. I live near two Labs I trust a lot less then a friend’s Rottweiler because one Lab was abused and the other was a stray who lived feral for several months.
People who do not understand dogs are often a huge part of the problem. Dogs sense when someone is hostile to them and will act accordingly. Dogs will also respond to what they see as prey behavior, which is one reason they often chase joggers. Children tend to get bitten because they do three key things wrong. They will shyly approach a dog from behind when they want to pet it, which to the dog is an aggressive act of establishing dominance. Then when the dog growls the child will emit a high pitched sound and run away, which is what prey does.
Where did you come up with those numbers? The CDC data on dog bite-related fatalities is here: http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf The CDC’s numbers are starkly different than your numbers.
A more meaningful statistic would be fatal dog attacks by breed as a percentage of that breed’s total population. However, there doesn’t appear to be any good data on total breed populations.
The Daily Beast (Newsweek) did try to make an estimate of the most dangerous breeds using the American Kennel Club’s registration numbers. Pit Bulls were number one for being dangerous. Rottweilers were number three. German Shepherds were number eighteen.
I did look at estimates from sites that defended Pit Bulls. Their estimates of Pitt Bulls as percentages of the total dog population ranged from 5% to 40%! Good grief.
trusting the CDC is your problem.
A Newfoundland killed somebody? Well he must have deserved it. If you can get a newfie to kill you, you need to be dead. Just saying.
Assuming those stats are valid, the next question is, how many of those were a dog doing what they are trained/bred to do, and protecting the owner?
2007 Top biting dog breeds (Miami-Dade & Broward County, FL)
2007′s top 10 biting dogs by breed
Posted on Sat, Mar. 08, 2008
MIAMI-DADE ANIMAL CONTROL
Total dog bites: 992
1. Terrier: 108
2. Labrador mix: 95
3. Shepherd mix: 90
4. Mixed breed: 81
5. German shepherd: 53
6. Chow mix: 50
7. Boxer: 39
8. Rottweiler: 33
9. Pit bull: 32
10. American bulldog: 30
actually, for years golden retrievers were one of the top biters.
“they are maimers and killers. I remember walking home from campus one freezing December night and being charged, a couple blocks from my apartment by some crazy-ass doberman. What I did was stop dead in my tracks, speak some soothing words, and back off.
Gosh for a “maimer and a killer” this crazy-ass doberman sure didn’t do much if you talked him down.
“these are also dogs that were bred to attack and maim… But in the mean time, if I am a homeowner, and I have and aggressive, growling/yapping pit-bull or doberman or whatever moving in next door to me and my family?
simple answer – stay out of their yard – problem solved.
By the way I know lots of pitt bull and doberman owners and their dogs they are not growling/yapping dogs – your comment is suspect.
The Province of Ontario, Canada has had a law on the books for about 10 years outlawing pitbulls. As the term “pitbull” is an ill defined breeding category, the result has been numerous owners of otherwise tame and friendly dogs being charged with the offense of owning a dog that appears daunting to an officer of the law. Its as ridiculous as suggesting that any dog that is brown should be illegal or that the stripes on zebra must be a certain width.
Penalize the behavior of the OWNER, not the beasts.
Used to have a couple of Pit Bulls years ago.
Unfortunately, the ghetto gang bangers have been deliberately breeding them for human aggression for decades. They can no longer be trusted with people. And of course they could never be trusted with other animals. These giant, bow legged “blue” monstrosities are no more a real pit bull than I am an astronaut.
agree about the dogs, see my previous comment.
“Meanwhile, innocent pit bulls are killed by the thousands at animal shelters across the country. Why? Because potential adopters, hearing constant negative press about these “dangerous” dogs, are still too terrified to adopt them.”
Well, maybe. Or maybe they don’t want to be known as people who own a pit bull.
I suppose it is theoretically possible that some pit bull owners are not feckless, loser jerks (the more accurate term for them is obscene and inappropriate for his site) but the sad fact is that I have never met a pit bull owner who was not. All pit bull owners I have met shared certain undesirable qualities. Maybe my experience has been a statistical anomaly but I would not like anyone to think that I shared those qualities.
All of my dogs have been adopted from the pound. Some have been mutts. All were good dogs in their own ways. It does not bother me a bit that the pit bulls I passed over for the dogs I brought home were killed.
Gilligan. Perhaps if you moved out of the ghetto you might meet a better class of pitbull owner. My wife and I are both attorneys. I’m in private practice and she, the law school class valedictorian, is Senior Vice President and General Counsel at one of the largest banks in Chicago. We have several highly educated friends who also own pit bulls. If everybody in your social mellieu is scum, then those who also own pitbulls will also be scum.
I’ve never lived in a ghetto. I used to live in a barrio though and since I started doing better financially and moved to better neighborhoods, I meet a lot fewer owners of pit bulls. I still meet some, though, and despite their better educations, better clothes and better manners, they seem to share some of the character traits of the other pit bull owners.
nonsense, I know a lot of pitbull owners who are well educated, upstanding members of society.
I too have met pit bull owners with education and social position. They would score high on this test though.
I’m with you Gilligan, I have never seen a responsible Pitt owner. They refuse to obey local ordinances, allow their animals free access anywhere anytime, and yes, so do some owners of chihuahuas, but I have never seen a toddler ripped apart by a chihuahua.
Working in an ER for 20 yrs, I can pretty much guarantee a Pitt will eventually attack.
I know that when I want info on dogs I go to the local ER, because everyone knows ER personell are dog experts.
I own three pit bulls ~ thanks for the compliments !
then you certainly don’t know many pit bull owners.
I’ve known enough that I am not anxious to meet any more.
if all you do is hang out with scumbags, the only people you will meet will be scumbags.
The word I am trying to not use on this website is a rude term for the last stop in the alimentary canal. It is typically used to refer to hapless, inconsiderate, careless jerks rather than the malevolence and possible criminality that your rude term usually implies.
And I have never met a pit bull owner who could not be accurately described by my rude term although I have met several who would not fit yours.
I sadly have to agree that the pit bull owners I know are all tattooed – both of which display a lack of self-esteem and a sense of individual powerlessness that can only be hidden by draping oneself in external accouterments and displaying them to strangers. It would be less expensive to just buy a halloween mask and wear it for the rest of your life.
I volunteer at our local Humane Society in the adoptions area and see many sweet Pitt Bulls go unadopted and are subsequently euthanized. Very sad to see. Having said that, there are some Pitts that come to us, like many of every other breed,who were abused. I am very wary of these dogs,much more so than the other breeds for one very specific reason. When Pitts go postal,they can and have killed. A friend of mine pointed out that more people get bit by German Shepards than Pitt Bulls every year and no one is calling them vicious. While that may be true, I don’t know for a fact, my counterpoint was you don’t hear of people being mauled to death by German Shepards. It seems when Pitts go bad,they go very bad- deadly bad in fact.
I will continue to value all dogs equally but to not be cautious around a breed with such a storied past is, IMHO, the way that past perpetuates itself. Pitts who show violent tendencies should be culled from the gene pool, hopefully helping to remove the more violent properties. And of course, those who abuse dogs should be prosecuted to the very extent of the law. MichaelVick paid for his past transgressions but should not be allowed to own a dog. The government has been granted the authority to license and therefor regulate dog ownership. Would someone who had killed a child be allowed to adopt another after being released from prison?
Other breeds do kill maul people, it’s just that the media doesn’t make as big a deal about it.
The fact is that 94 percent of human deaths from dog attacks are by non-neutered males regardless of breed. Also, any statistics about the increase in deaths from “pitbull-type” dogs have to take into account the increase in ownership of such type of dogs — something that is not done.
My personal experience is that there has been a surge in the population in pitbulls. I think the reason is that they are exceptional dogs in intelligence and desire to emotionally bond to its owner/family. Unfortunately, this increase in general popularity by good owners also leads to more irresponsible owners, partly due to poor breeding practices, partly due to more pits being available.
Recall in the 1950′s there was a german shepherd craze due to Rin-Tin-Tin. This led to a lot of dog attacks by german shephards due to the fact that they were a lot of them and a lot of them were from puppy mills. The breed hasn’t really recovered from this — even show quality dogs have hip displasia problems.
Well, no. The government has ASSUMED that power.
Favorite dog of dope houses.
The libertarians who see everything through an economic prism will see the solution to the pitbull problem in legalization of crack and meth.
A pitbull attacked me and they can do a lot of damage in a hurry. I am still afraid of them.
favorite dogs of dope houses simply because cops started using dogs on dopers.
“The attack came totally unexpected”
How many times have I read that.
They never bite anyone until they bite someone.
I used to work with a girl who needed 50 stitches to put her scalp back together
after getting stuck in a room with a “dog that never bit anyone”.
Most of the problems with pit bulls are due to recent bad breeding and bad training. I heard someone on the radio who was an expert on pit bulls and he had some interesting observations.
He said a properly trained and bred pit bull is actually a good house pet and is good with people and older children although perhaps surprisingly not a very good watchdog.
Pit bulls were bred as fighting dogs. By their nature they are comfortable around strange people, since they meet strangers all the time during dog fights. Before a dog fight, each owner washes the other owner’s dog (as a precaution against someone rubbing poisons on the dog’s body which the other dog would ingest.) In a dog fight, the referee occasionally breaks up the dogs. You can do that with pit bulls (assuming they are bred and trained properly), but try it with Rottweilers and you could get your hand bitten off.
But pit bulls are not good around other animals or small children without training and supervision. A dog doesn’t know the difference between a toddler and a small animal, and pit bulls are bred to fight other animals. So don’t leave a pit bull alone with a small child.
But pit bulls are not good around other animals or small children without training and supervision. A dog doesn’t know the difference between a toddler and a small animal, and pit bulls are bred to fight other animals. So don’t leave a pit bull alone with a small child.
No dog should be left around a small child unsupervised.
My Maltese is such a wimp that we don’t have much to worry about with him. My wife has a preschool with 2 1/2 to 4 year old kids and he is left alone with them (with my wife in another room). There was only trouble once when a kid teased the dog and it nipped him. The kid cried, but he wasn’t seriously hurt. A pit bull could have seriously injured him.
I hope we don’t read about your preschool in the paper some day. You are very irresponsible.
Could you be any more irresponsible and brain dead?
You and your wife should be shut down.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I would guess that most bulldogs are waaaaay smarter and much more intuitive than you, Steve. That little Maltese you were blathering on about could have very easily killed that kid he ‘nipped’. You even admitted it when you said,”when a kid teased the dog and it nipped him” The kid was at fault. But that wouldn’t have mattered if the kid was killed.
When I was volunteering in the fight against BSL(breed specific legislation) a newspaper story was relayed to me about a postman who refused to deliver mail down a certain street in Chicago. Why? Because he said there was a vicious dog who intimidated him and he was scared of the dog. What was the breed of this threatening killer who terrified the postman into refusing to deliver on the street where this direct descendant of Cerberus was living? A chihuahua.
Mark Twain said it best,”It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog.” Wake up, Steve.
That is ridiculous, there was no chance that the 7 lb dog we have could killed the kid with my wife right in another room.
I’m surprised that administrators of Julia Szabo “In Defense of the Pit Bull” didn’t post my two replies on Sunday with statistics and references that identified the pit bull as the the most dangerous breed of dog. They were succinct, respectful and professional. I now see that she has carefully controlled the responses, with only unsourced claims that Pits are misrepresented and links to minor studies to that effect. There are very few detractors, and most of those are relatively mild or without references to supporting documentation. All one has to do is google “pit bull deaths” and follow the first link to wikipedia’s page that chronicles each relative to other breeds. Or follow a few links down to 10 Myths About Pit Bulls to read refutations of much of her article and cherry picked responses.
But most of all, I’m disappointed that such an honorless agenda driven person would be allowed to publish on PJ Media. I’ve always expected more from this site but will now question everything posted here with greater suspicion.
Regards,
Bill Carson
Key Largo FL
cc PJMedia
Has it ever occurred to you, Bill, that you might be WRONG? Wikipedia? Seriously? If you want genuine statistics, that have been thoroughly and painstakingly researched for several years, you need to go to Karen DeLise’s National Canine Research Council website.
Of course I can be wrong. That’s why I referenced my work for people can decide for themselves. That’s why the Wikipedia article that I linked to has 260 references (something that was probably also ” painstakingly researched for several years.”) That’s why you can edit it if you find something wrong. That’s why the editors of “Karen DeLise’s National Canine Research Council” can edit it if they find inaccuracies (although I saw nothing there that contradicted or addressed it.)
But interested people here can’t edit it if the moderator of this article dump replies to which she disagrees or threaten her agenda. We can’t come to any kind of understanding based on facts if half the evidence is suppressed. We just degenerate to snide remarks, name calling and claims of conspiracy without evidence.
It appears that replies get posted immediately, bypassing the moderator, if we don’t include links or html formatting. So with that in mind,
Google: “List of fatal dog attacks in the United States”
…
“2005 Pit Bull (12) (39%) Rottweiler (6) (21%)
2006 Pit Bull (12) (40%) Rottweiler (9) (31%)
2007 Pit Bull (15) (41%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2008 Pit Bull (11) (43%) Husky (3) (13%)
2009 Pit Bull (11) (32%) Rottweiler (4) (13%)
2010 Pit Bull (19) (57%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2011 Pit Bull or “Pit bull type” (9) (60%) Rottweiler (2) (16.66%)
2012 Pit Bull or “Pit bull type” (11) (61%)”
But don’t just read those statistics; read the stories behind each. Most are referenced.
(Part 1 of 2)
Google: “Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 26, 2011 ”
….
“The combination of pit bulls, rottweilers, their close mixes and wolf hybrids:
77% of attacks that induce bodily harm
73% of attacks to children
81% of attack to adults
68% of attacks that result in fatalities
76% that result in maiming”
Read many similar studies at Dogbite dot org. Read the “10 Pit Bull Myths” there too.
FWIW, I respect the ability of people who raise and responsibly manage Pit Bulls. But in residential areas it needs to be regulated, just like anything else that poses an exceptional threat by so many people who attempt it.
Unfortunately, NONE of your statistics cover the three primary factors which result in dog bites/attacks: (1) a dog which is unaltered (i.e. not spayed or neutered); (2) a dog which is improperly socialized (these are usually the dogs you find at the end of a chain. They have little to no interaction with humans and certainly no training.); and (3) an unsupervised child.
You will note breed is not a factor in any of the above. Furthermore, even the CDC has acknowledged that bite incidents per breed are relative to their population overall.
And, this does not even begin to cover the tendency toward misidentification and media bias (claiming the dog involved was a pit bull, when in fact it was some other breed or a mutt).
There are millions of pit bulls in this country. If, in fact, 11 of them were involved in fatal attacks in 2012 as you reference above, that is less than 1%. Far more people were killed this year in auto accidents, by firearms, in swimming pools and even by ATVs. We blame HUMAN negligence when these tragedies occur by these means. Blaming the dog for the incidents in which they are involved is ludricous.
Until we start effectively addressing this issue at the proper end of the leash, we will never resolve the “pit bull problem.”
“Far more people were killed this year in auto accidents, by firearms, in swimming pools and even by ATVs.” -SJH
That’s why we force all drivers to go through training, testing and licensing, despite “far less than 1%” of them too having killed someone this year. That’s why we make gun buyers prove that they’re not felons and force them to take training before they can concealed carry. Swimming pools and ATVs generally don’t jump over fences and attack neighbors so they’re less regulated. Pit Bulls? Let people who enjoy taming fire keep them, but State and local governments need to treat them like owners of any other exceptionally dangerous animal or thing. They and their dogs need training, testing, insurance and special licensing and containment. They may also need to be “criminally” responsible for any damage their pit inflicts.
I’d be surprised if the breed of dog was not verified in virtually all the death statistics that I listed. Breed was not only “a” factor, it was the “only” factor in the statistics. All those issue you listed for how you would like reporting broken down are a good start for the breed specific regulations that is needed. That will of course make licensing expensive, but that’s just the cost of owning an exceptionally dangerous animal, and the owners need to pay that cost, not the victims.
“That’s why we force all drivers to go through training, testing and licensing, despite “far less than 1%” of them too having killed someone this year. That’s why we make gun buyers prove that they’re not felons and force them to take training before they can concealed ”
you don’t need a license for an ATV driven off road, for that matter any vehicle driven off road. don’t need a licence to buy, own, shoot firearm.
comment basically BS
For the record, I am not authorized to “control” the comments on PJM. I have left a couple of comments, but I am not the moderator. And thank you, elfman, for describing me as “an honorless agenda driven person” — did you happen to notice PJM’s rules about leaving comments, #3 of which is “avoid ad hominem attacks”?
I apologies Julia for presuming that you were responsible for the suppression of my replies to your article. My criticism should have been directed at the person that did so and to the person that agreed to give him that authority.
I am an attorney called upon regularly to defend dog owners, so I’ll admit that most of my information is either anecdotal or information I’ve obtained from research and dog experts. BUT I have both information and experience I would like to share. Everyone who discusses the “bite rate” of various breeds in an effort to defend the pit bull is missing one very important fact – a pit bull bite will often cause very serious injuries or death; many of the other breeds’ bites won’t. For example, I defended a Yorkie’s owner whose dog bit a mailman, which caused a scratch on the victim’s knee – not what you would call a big deal. You should look at the rate of FATAL injuries and guess which breed tops the list? I’ve defended pit bull owners whose dogs caused permanent, maiming injuries and everything I’ve seen had led me to the conclusion that the breed is dangerous, erratic and unstable. Because of the type of work I do, I also speak to a lot of people about their dogs – just last week I was told that a friend’s mother had owned a pit for ten years, without incident, and the dog suddenly lunged at her face and seriously injured her. There’s one thing you can look at to determine the real risks – insurance companies are called upon to assess risk – that’s part of their business – and many insurance companies are “excluding” coverage for specific breeds – pit bulls, Rottweilers, Chows, for example. Which means that if your pit bulls bites someone and you’re sued, you’re on you own. Of course, many pit owners have neither a home or insurance, so their maimed and dead victims are left without recourse. Sorry, pit bull owners. I’m on the side that believes that breed should be eradicated.
All eradicating a breed will do is kill millions of innocent dogs. The crappy owners whose dogs were involved in the cases you litigate will only move on to another breed. Once again…we are addressing this problem at the wrong end of the leash.
Every time I see a pit bull, my first instinct is to shoot the damned thing. My second though is to look at the owner and think “what a loser”
every time I see a jackass whose first impression is to shoot someones dog, I want to pull out me legally licensed concealed weapon and pistol whip the stupid jackass silly.
The fact that you threaten assault with a deadly weapon against someone because he wrote something on the internet that you don’t like causes me to think that you are exactly the sort of person who owns a pit bull.
Dumbazz I didn’t threaten anyone, and if you can’t see the problems with some azzclown’s first impressions of shooting someones dog, just because he doesn’t like that type of dog, then you should be quiet, because you are too stupid to be commenting on a public forum.
Keep it up. You are providing more evidence that my description of pit bull owners is accurate. What was your score on this test?
electricpulp.com/guykawasaki/arse/
gilligan, Iv’e read enough of your previous comments to know that you are an ignorant clown.
The fact that you name yourself after a buffoon says all that needs to be said.
My comments stand on their own merit.
The fact that you would take the side of a man who would shoots innocent dogs on sight prove how pathetic you really are.
I’m not a Stern fan. Never have been. If he did what this article suggests, I would be one of the ones who would begin tuning into his show every time I got the chance.