Geek Rage: Star Wars Comments of the Day
It looks like far too many geeks and nerds fell into Kathy Shaidle’s trap with her Five Reasons Star Wars Actually Sucks article here at PJ Lifestyle. Let’s examine the wreckage in the comments:
RLD
Criticizing Joseph Campbell proves you are subhuman. You fell asleep during Star Wars, I fell asleep during your article on Star Wars. There! Life is fair!
Drop dead whoever you are.
And it looks like some of Kathy’s sharpest barbs really got under a few readers’ skin:
59. Q
The Mark Steyn, World of Warcraft line is just dirty pool. We are not all going to be Mark Steyn’s in this world. Nor will we all be paragons or captains of industry. Great men of the world or giants in any field. I am for instance an electrician, I am a very good electrician, I am considering starting on my master’s license later this year. But, that is all I am likely to ever be. And that is enough for me. It provides more than enough for me to care for myself, my family and my home. And if I spend my downtime when out of work, between one 14hr a day job and another, playing WOW and making wow jokes to my friends, what difference does it make to anyone but me? Now, don’t think for a moment that your over theme of delayed adulthood and permanent adolescence was lost on me. I am not dressing up as a night elf while living in my parent’s basement, or going to “cons”. I do understand that there is a large and growing subculture of overgrown man-children who can neither care for themselves or others. They cross all sorts of sub culture lines. From the comic book man-child to the pop culture man-child. I just think it was a bit narrow sighted to lump WOW in as a major cause. (BTW, I like Mark Steyn, and all I can say is, if he wanted, he would make a kick ass rogue. He has a way of sneaking up on ya and going for the kill.)
Others got the joke and even offered some substantive reflections on what it means to stop worshipping Star Wars:
90. erico
In 1977, I was nine years old living in a small town outside Albuquerque, passing the time wandering through the desert in and beyond the back yard looking for scorpions, stink bugs, skinks, anything really, of interest, usually finding nothing. That summer, as a treat, the family went to see Star Wars with family visiting from out of town. When Luke looked out at the double sunset on Tatooine, and the voilin strings strained away, that was me! Here on the big screen was a movie that had good guys, and bad guys, and gunfire, and adventure. Star Wars was a revelation! It seemed to comport with my nascent Christian faith, handed down to me through my parents, and the promise that there was some way to live it out in the world. Something awaited. Metaphysical bliss.
The later movies, with all the hemming and hawing on the shades of grey in the world (the growing imposition of the Campbell system), stereotypes in place of characters (much of it was originally supplied by good actors rather than the script), the loss of the sense that something was really at stake, all the endless extrapolation of different worlds, creatures, cultures, lost the thread, that there was something transcendent, and calling, in each of our futures. The system subsumed all that was once thought to be transcendent, including the force. Was it some Jungian system? Who cares. When that final piece, the force, was taken away through some materialist mumbo jumbo about mitichlorians (?) in the blood I had been broken.
And thankfully I am done with all that. My kids don’t seem so very interested in it, except that Dad was once a big fan, so they have tried to take an interest, but it isn’t lasting, because Star Wars is now just a force of culture, not of the individual, as I first received it. So I’m rather glad for the kids, for their sniffing out what is worthwhile from what is not.
“Help us Kathy Schaidle, you’re our only hope.”
And let me just lay my cards on the table as the one who edited Kathy’s piece and gave her the green light to go out of her way to say what needed to be said: I too was raised on George Lucas’s films and still wear Star Wars t-shirts. As a toddler I insisted on going to sleep each night watching the scene from Empire Strikes Back where Luke and Yoda first meet. That seems to have made an impression of sorts, as April just got me this for Christmas which I enjoy quite a bit:
We usually ride Star Tours when we go to DisneyLand and at some point I’m going to get April one of these cute Yoda backpacks where it looks like he’s holding onto your back:
But that’s about the extent of our Star Wars geeking these days.
We’re just not as geeky as we used to be during college and high school. The energy and attention that used to be focused on oddball movies and quirky hobbies now goes into our careers so someday we can expand our family beyond just the two of us and a Siberian Husky begging for homemade sushi:
Maura: "Daddy, you will share you sushi with me right now!"
Anybody else in this same boat?
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David Swindle is the associate editor of PJ Media and writes a post each day on news and politics at PJ Tatler and culture and entertainment at PJ Lifestyle. He can be contacted with feedback and story tips at DaveSwindlePJM[@]gmail.com and on Twitter @DaveSwindle. He enforces commenting guidelines on his posts — rude, off topic and ad hominem comments will be deleted.
I have a fully grown, multi- lingual friend who works Texas oil-field hours outside in West Texas- can’t see to can’t see in 105 degree heat in summer, below freezing in winter. I do not begrudge him one minute of dressing up like a clone trooper and running around an air-conditioned hotel with like-minded friends.
Nor do I give the wife stare of doom to the husband who puts in 12 to 14 hour days outside the house, doing all the things that pay for this house. He can play Civilization until he decides to go to bed at (cough) hours in the morning. We can pay a repairman to do a better job at patching holes in the wall. I want him happy and coddled so he can stand getting his butt kicked by this economy outside the house. He’s stayed employed in his job- the last 96 of 100 guys he started with just left. I’m really, really, really okay with him being the ruler of the entire known world of pixels.
For that matter, I like it that the spouse and boys play geeky online games together. They feel like they are part of a team. Conservative men speak to their father at least once a week, and count their father as one of their closest confidants. Video games facilitate this, in our house.
And, my geeky male friends have been mighty solicitous towards me- they wanted me to be happy, and were genuinely happy when I went to a fan luncheon for something they aren’t involved in. That beats the dickens out of psychologists claiming that all women simply want scented bath products, and a chance to vacuum every day.
For that matter, my friend the very agoraphobic was able to share an adventure with his wife, online, so she could see that he at least had heroism in his heart. He’s at the mercy of chemical storms. But- he created an avatar of her, to show her how he saw her- then created avatars to accompany her on her journey. It was better marital therapy than anything they’d had up to that point. Eventually, she made an avatar of how she saw him- and it changed,growing stronger.
George Lucas is one guy. Other people came to imagine in this world. It’s not just about him anymore.
So, Kathy does a bit of nerd-baiting and sets off a firestorm, so you’re supporting her and quoting a few choice out-of-context comments to claim that the nerds and geeks are blowing it all out of proportion and fell into her “trap”? Seems a tad fishy to me.
It’s okay because nerds and geeks are passionate about their favorite pastimes? It’s okay because you’re a Star Wars fan too?
Maybe it’s okay because it’s all “ironic”?
I don’t care what you or Kathy like. I don’t care whether you think any kind of fandom is pathetic. I don’t care what you think about anyone or anything. Kathy, with your approval, effectively told millions of the most creative, intelligent people out there that they are worthless and useless because they play computer games and do other geeky things to relax (“Successful, mature men do not play computer games, attend “cons,” and get excited about overrated science fiction movies from the 1970s.”).
Actually, yes, successful, mature men do play computer games, they do attend “cons”, and some of them do get excited about science fiction movies, overrated or not. So do more than a few successful, mature women.
If Kathy and you want to try to be funny, you might do better to avoid insulting geeks and nerds. Calling a whole lot of people useless losers then claiming you’re joking doesn’t cut it.
Thank you, Kate. Your comment brings a big smile to my face and further proves Kathy and my point.
“Calling a whole lot of people useless losers then claiming you’re joking doesn’t cut it.”
Just out of curiosity, what would cut it? What penance must we pay to the Geek Community so that you might remain a loyal PJ Lifestyle reader? Any story suggestions?
I’m still confused as to what point either of you was trying to make, beyond insulting a large number of your readers — and incidentally quite a few of the contributors here.
What did you find so insulting in Kathy’s humor column? I didn’t see her mention you.
Just one example among many.
Successful, mature men do not play computer games, attend “cons,” and get excited about overrated science fiction movies from the 1970s.
I’m an arguably successful, mature man. I play computer games, haven’t yet attended a con but would like to and I get excited about SF movies, some of them from the 70s and many of them put out today.
I don’t care that Kathy doesn’t like Star Wars — that’s fine, she’s entitled. But she went out of her way to deliberately insult a broad swath of people who are generally, better educated and more intelligent than the norm.
As much as I hate science fiction in general, I have to give Star Trek credit: at least that franchise inspired a few non-loser, hard working, intelligent people to create real world goods:
She gives herself away here, and as many of the commenters noted, a good few of them were inspired to go into the sciences or the military by Star Wars.
The fact remains, you, both of you, went out of your way to tell a large group of your readers that something near and dear to their heart was crap — and then tried to cover it by saying “hey it was all a joke.”
It wasn’t funny.
I appreciate your feedback, Patrick.
Kids grow up reading science fiction and being taken to the cleaners for it by friends and family as morons trying to escape from reality. While real and actual morons were watching “B.J. and the Bear” and “Wheel of Fortune” and dreaming of going to Las Vegas, America’s biggest dump, I was reading America’s perhaps finest prose stylist, Jack Vance.
So now the insults are back in the year 2012 when it has long been shown that science fiction is more challenging by far than the average New York Times best seller list on any given day. I defy anyone to give me an easy analysis of the complex themes of “Dune Messiah” and right here and right now perhaps you can reveal the perceptual trap in the film “Alien” (1979) You can’t Google the answer, you have to “see.” Good luck with that one. It’s a blind spot only those who’ve shed their pretension can figure out. And don’t worry, it’s right there in front of you for most of the movie.
“Successful, mature men do not play computer games, attend “cons,” and get excited about overrated science fiction movies from the 1970s.”
Everything else in the entire piece could be written off to hyperbole of preference, and intra-fan sniping, but that one throwaway quip, with its follow up, crosses the line into simply being gratuitously obnoxious.
As it happens, that line “technically” does not insult me, as I do not qualify for the “successful” part, though I do meet all of the other qualifications, adding in role-playing games, which I have actually managed to get paid a bit to write for though not enough to raise me to said “successful” level, and noting that Star Wars is not the particular sci-fi movie, overrated, sleeper, or otherwise, from the ’70s that I get particularly excited about.
I do however know quite a few people who meet all of those requirements, along with some women, and both who trade in a variety of other gaming modes and entertainment choices to go with the convention attendance, and I’m not all that amused by your casual sneering at them.
Perhaps if you took some time off from going to DisneyLand to attend one of those conventions and interact with some of the people you might be surprised by what you find. For example, you might meet some of these people
http://www.501st.com/
And what’s that at the top of their news crawl right now?
“12th Annual Crystal Ball raises over $230,000 for charity.
by Dewka on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:28 am
On Saturday January 21st over fifty costumed members of the 501st Legion and Rebel Legion helped the Community Foundation of Northwest Mississippi raise over $230,000 dollars for the Foundation’s operating costs, with over $217,000 given away to deserving organizations with representatives on hand at the ball.”
And what’s that right below it?
“Charity Totals Nearly $6 million Dollars in 2011
by Dewka on Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:32 pm
The 501st Legion is very excited to announce that during 2011, we helped raise more than the equivalant of $5.8 million US Dollars by assisting local and International charities with their worldwide fundraising efforts.”
I guess instead of wasting their time dressing up and attending cons because they get excited over an overrated sci-fi movie from the ’70s, they should take note that; “No, these men have careers and families, here on planet earth.”, and comport themselves accordingly.
Yup, you guys threw darts at a whole bunch of regular readers, and got howls of anger and outrage from them. Sure enough, the trap worked. Next, cooking puppies in a Weber grill and why conservatives really are stupid.
Dave,
I’m not going to bother beyond this. I never did like the kind of humor that gets its kicks from insulting someone who’s perceived to be inferior in some way and I don’t feel like playing shredder tonight. You go right on with that warm fuzzy feeling of yours.
Making excuses for your little tag-team nerd-baiting is pathetic. Penance in those circumstances would just be another insult. Fortunately for me there are other PJ Lifestyle authors. Besides, I’ve got one novel to revise before publication, and another contracted one to finish when I’m not testing software for the day job. It’s not like I’m missing much by cutting a couple of columnists from the list of light reading.
Good luck with your novels. It’s too bad that you won’t be reading me any more as you’ll miss out on my review of my friend Hannah Sternberg’s novel. We’ll probably publish that this weekend or next week.
I hardly ever read PJ Lifestyle, though I do keep up with the other sections of PJM because two of the people behind Otherwhere Gazette are also contributors to PJM.
However, I can see that I haven’t really been missing anything by not reading PJ Lifestyle, if this is the kind of stuff you find worthy of posting.
If I can’t say something nice about a book in a review, I just don’t review it, and it’s happened a time or two. My Mom taught me that guideline when I was just a kid.
Perhaps that’s a rule you should consider for the Lifestyle section.
You’re not going to believe this, but when I read your first comment my immediate thought was, “Whoever you are, you write beautifully. You should be doing it professionally. You have talent.”
I then read, “Besides, I’ve got one novel to revise before publication, and another contracted one to finish when I’m not testing software for the day job.” and laughed to myself.
What would cut it? Ummm, actually being funny.
How about just not being deliberately and personally rude about other people’s leisure pastimes in the first place?
Not compounding it by pretending those insulted telling you where to get off is also a source of great humor might help as well, though it doesn’t actually make up from the original attacks.
How about not insulting us in the first place?
How about having some kind of standard for what is and is not worthy of publication on PJMedia?
Hint: Articles about culture shouldn’t be written by the culturally illiterate. Outright insults and inane “analysis” from an ignoramus shouldn’t ever be published.
Oh, but it’s from your wife… I guess it’s my fault I didn’t like it.
With humor like this, my advice is “don’t quit your day jobs.”
Oh so she was just pretending to be a dismissive moron ignorant of Van Vogt’s 800 word rule or the fact that Star Wars was itself tongue-in-cheek retro fare of ’40s serials.
And no I didn’t get the joke: how is it funny to twice remark one fell asleep during Star Wars? Is it funny cuz it’s supposed to be heresy that people get angry at? It seems to me it was the recitation of an actual event. Anything can be forgiven if it’s funny as the incredible vulgarity of R.Crumb and S.Clay Wilson shows. I don’t worship Star Wars nor have I ever bought merchandise other than 100 Jabba the Hut stretch socks and the official Star Wars “Soap-On-A-Rope-Imperial-Walker; the Star Wars “Uncut” made from assembled 15 sec. bits of amateur footage is hilarious as is Robot Chicken’s Star Wars take downs.
I don’t think anyone fell into a “perceptual trap” as one was never presented. What was presented was a poorly thought out and seemingly last minute offering that showed more disdain than humor.
Joke or not, there is truth revealed here when it is held up to her “Movies For Grown Ups” and in this sense one has to wonder who fell into what perceptual trap.
No. I’m calling BS. You greenlighted a snark aimed at what you reckoned was a lefty loser passion. Truth is that cons and ren fests and such are dominated by republicans; the number of ex-army guys wearing kilts or jedi outfits or playing games would apparently astound you.
And this: The energy and attention that used to be focused on oddball movies and quirky hobbies now goes into our careers… is just more of the same idiotic snark, merely rephrased. At the local ren fest the guy running the kilt shop is a physicist, three doors down there’s a shop run by an oncologist. Engineers, lawyers, everything you can name are into varying geek hobbies — including star wars — and somehow these people seem to be able to find time to be excellent at their careers *and* have their hobbies. In truth you have done nothing other than take aim at something you don’t know the first thing about and instead made assumptions.
And you want to portray yourself as the “serious” type?
News flash, ace — REALLY serious types bone up and learn WTF they’re talking about before saying something.
“You greenlighted a snark aimed at what you reckoned was a lefty loser passion.”
I don’t regard Star Wars fandom as Left or Right or a loser passion. I greenlit a hyperbolic humor column that those secure in their video gaming, renaissance fair attendance, and other geek hobbies shouldn’t be threatened by.
Well, that fake “threatened by” argument works both ways if it works at all. Wanting to set a record straight is not a feeling of being “threatened.” It is a feeling of knowing, correctly in this case, the true nature of science fiction art since one unacquainted with the genre, by self-acknowledgement, really has nothing constructive or informed to say do they?
How much traction do I have if I say I’ve never really experienced a genre, but don’t like it or the ephemera it produces?
“the true nature of science fiction art”
This is a good way to put it. Thanks.
And learned that for every one of those secure geeks, there are fifty or a hundred who still sting from the way they were treated as adolescents.
A useful lesson here. Can you learn it?
See “Holes, First Rule of”.
The lesson here is that the world doesn’t care how you were treated as an adolescent. Being a geek or an American is not a special by past the pitfalls the rest of the world will struggle against and persevere. We are too coddled and too impressed with ourselves. That’s the point……
I generally share Kathy’s opinions about Star Wars and video gamews, but my guess here is that you got a few angry e-mails too many and now you’re trying to cover your *ss by saying it was all a big joke.
To use a favorite phrase of a twenty-something co-worker of mine, that’s a “fail.” In fact, it’s an “epic fail.”
Nice try, though.
No angry emails and it is a big joke. It’s just an amusing humor column that many people are choosing to take seriously so they can demonstrate the point Kathy was making about people taking their obsessions too far.
Was a single point made that actually showed the dangers of over indulgence? Were there anecdotes to the contrary? I think you lost on that score. I agree people should read E.M. Forster’s “The Machine Stops” and take warning; I don’t agree SF and comic conventions rise to that standard.
“Was a single point made that actually showed the dangers of over indulgence? Were there anecdotes to the contrary?”
Kathy relied on the commenters who were upset by her article and vowed never to read us again to demonstrate this point by behaving as she described they would — taking their “holy” trilogy far too seriously.
I’m not leaving PJMedia because of your opinions re: Star Wars, I don’t care about them.
I’m leaving PJMedia because you’ve demonstrated strong contempt for your readership and have taken to publishing a large quantity of poorly written nonsense. It’s no longer worth my time separating the wheat from the increasingly-present chaffe.
This article is merely the most recent (and a particularly grievous) example of a growing trend.
Are you trying to emulate the editorial board of the New York Times, or does that attitude just come naturally to you?
The Wookie doth protest too much. Admit defeat, raise the white flag and come to the Dark Side. It’s warm and cozy here and we enjoy good stuff where we find it, not based on a lack of “grown up” box office receipts or how people react to art long after it is made by going to conventions or buying Aurora model kits of the “Millenium Falcon.”
Aurora wrecked WW II and turned it from a just war to a Nazi analogue merely by virtue of a plethora of airplane model kits plus literature and movies about it and veterans conventions. Imagine a guy dressed like a real storm trooper. Ha-ha-ha-irony-ha-ha.
They are NOT taking the holy trinity too seriously because that trilogy is some serious art. This is something that was so obvious the entire country recognized it in 1977. The idea that people responded like that to the characters or story is crazy. It was the artistry with which the film was constructed. Take that exact same story and present it by the same team that produced “Logan’s Run” and you have nothing. What’s so hard to understand about that? The same would be true of “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” – nothing.
It’s amazing to me that people who insist on writing about films and in an authoritative manner seem to have so little realization of the issues involved. For the last time, movies are not “pikcher” versions of novels but rise and fall on the language of film, not story. You can write the greatest, most tragic lyrics to a song ever done but set it to a boring up-tempo jazz arrangement completely inappropriate to the material and it falls – like this – boom!
Stories in film that somehow rise above filmic incompetence are called “cult” films. In this genre, all is forgiven and stupidity even considered a strength. Some cult films are also sometimes referred to as films for grown ups.
Well, Ms Shaidle had just written three columns about remarkably depressing movies. This column was in the same tone of writing voice. It didn’t “read” funny- it read malicious and unkind. If say, John Napier had had a bad time at a convention, being overwhelmed by men in black pleather outfits with capes, that’s one thing. But this was something else, entirely.
Dave,
I’m perfectly fine with a little teasing humor in my direction, though I doubt watching the same old movie once or twice a year is an “obsession.”
I think another good source of humor would be the Romance industry. Women spend well over a billion dollars a year on goofy romance novels and even more on “chick-flicks.” I argue that these are more perverting to the female mind than SW is to the male mind.
So what do you think? Quid pro quo, or does the double standard rule here?
Great idea. A take-down of those would be good too. How about a list of most overrated romantic comedies?
That’s easy: anything with Kate Hudson in it. Most things with her mother, Goldie Hawn. Just about anything with Matthew MCconaughy, other than Friday Night Lights.
I’d say a good half of Summit’s movies. Painful. just painful. the ones that they put in the trailers for their successful movies, that are near direct to video.
catherine hardwicke films, except for lords of dogtown. and yes, I know that includes twilight, episode one, which is girl-fan territory.
the sandra bullock films where she isn’t in high heels.
what’s his name- elizabeth hurley’s long-time companion- twitchy british guy? found with the hooker? nearly any of his, besides love, actually, and some of his earlies.
anything that has billy bob thornton within violating a restraining order distance of a woman.
I’m not even getting past 1990. There are so many good choices for bad romantic movies.
I’d say SATC, since I’ve seen it make a grown man cry. Two consecutive girlfriends had it up for weekend viewings. I’ve never seen it.
Anne Hathaway films. including get smart.
And, I’d leave romance novels alone, simply for male- self- interest. Avid readers of romance novels have something like 3x the marital satisfaction activity rate of non- romance readers. So, unless you’re Sheldon Cooper, your best bet is to ply the wife with pink- covered books, chocolate and wine.
The whole modern romance genre was started by one woman- a secretary in an RV, travelling with her husband- Janet Dailey set 35,000 word romances in each of the fifty states, taking about six weeks each to write. Over the course of a few years she visited each state, cooked up a romance, and started the entire modern romance publishing industry. Since Helen Gurley Brown was proximate in time, cooking up how secretaries could steal their boss from his wife using physical charms- I’d like to see how the two have fared- true romance with committed marriage vs predatory near pornography.
It’s also the section of publishing most welcome to new talent. Any number of regular writers started by pen name work in the romance genre. Not many small businesses simply take a word-processor and paper. Most creative writing seems to be built on the “swept away” and “inspiration” model, or the reporter plugged into work 24/7. This isn’t a realistic model for mothers. The romance writers treat writing like a business enterprise- how many words per day? along with “what’s your casserole?” for dinner. It’s about like Mary Kay training, rather than Jackson Pollock, or any reporters’ memoirs. And, well, it does have that “swept into the story”- it’s not PTA auditing chipmunk cheerful….
and again- it’s in men’s best interest to keep women interested in men, rather than fearful or icked out, or angry or bored. it’s in your wallet’s interests, too. $7 on a paperback romance, and then she shows you how happy she is, and then sleeps in- or- no book, early night, get up and go shopping for the giant leather handbag? choices, choices.
For me it’s easily Sex and the City – what’s not to ridicule about four middle-aged old-maids prancing about in war paint and ludicrous fashions convinced they are 20-something starlets. They are the female equivalent of the stereotypical balding, corvette driving, gold chain wearing middle aged man out cruising for young chicks.
Most of their gullable fan base now think they can cram their forty-something bunions into designer heels, swill a few Manhattans and and their own Mr. Big will magically appear to sweep them off their feet! Now that’s delusional.
A list of most overrated romantic comedies would be mostly any one with Julia Roberts and Goldie Hawn’s spawn. In fact I can’t think of any outside those two.
Sorry, I’m not buying it.
If it really was a “big joke,” it was a really bad one…in that it wasn’t funny. And if it was, it was only funny to you.
The problem is, it’s not amusing.
Now, if one were to compare Star Trek to socialism, point out that Counselor Troi is the Ship’s Political Officer, and should never wear cameltoe spandex if she would like to keep professional attention and be taken seriously as an EEO rep…
Then there’s Data–Zippy the Robot.
The TOS gangsters who were “Exceptionally good at mimicking,” to the point of recreating Chicago accents from a single textbook..
As to Star Wars, isn’t it obvious Episode 2 is The Two Towers? In one, we have Christopher Lee as the deputy to the chief heavy, building the Army of Darkness at a factory in the wilderness, and in the other, we have Christopher Lee as the deputy to the chief heavy, building the Army of Darkness at a factory in the wilderness. Pretty much the same outfit, too.
See, nerds like me host “I Hate Trek” panels and spend hours discussing everything wrong with the show, such as the episode when the Holodeck went on the fritz, and how 38 of D is lucky the doctor didn’t replace all her implants, and how the worst punishment aboard ship is to be assigned to squeegee the holodeck–you don’t think people really use that sim program to sit in bars, do you?
And of course, how Lucas failed in the remasters–we even called and complained, because the rebels won again. Some tawdry tart loses her crown, and takes down the government that was in the process of fixing those greedy capitalists? And in the process destroyed not only the government, but the economy? Damned Monarchists.
BTW, the typical nerd at DragonCon drops about $3000 for 5 days of fun, is well above average in intellect and looks, and presumably gainfully employed to do so.
So my advice is, if you want to be funny, actually learn the source material.
Got to go—a bunch of nerds dressed up as Romans want to give me several hundred dollars for some reproduction swords.
So now it is all the fault of us geeks (an offensive term since you are placing yourself as now beyond such activities, and strongly suggests that you really do consider it a “loser passion”) that your writer was incapable of expressing herself without being offensive, and you were incapable of properly editing and approving her column?
We are taking our “obsessions” too far, and feeling “threatened” because we don’t “get” your big joke, and you just can’t understand what the problem is.
Once again:
“Successful, mature men do not play computer games, attend “cons,” and get excited about overrated science fiction movies from the 1970s.”
That is not threatening.
That is not humorous.
That is simply rude.
If you cannot avoid doing it in the first place, not digging yourself in deeper trying to explain it away would be the best start at making amends.
Throwing up your (virtual) hands in exasperation and (typing) shouting “Why don’t you stupid geeks get it? It was just a joke!” is really not going to help, no matter how much you think it will because you believe your original “joke” really was that good.
I’m sure your title, “Geek Rage”, is meant in jest but I think it’s symptomatic of the bigger issue that you (Dave) seem to be missing (although I think Kathy actually got it). That is that Star Wars fandom is not the preserve of some marginal part of society. Star Wars was a massively important generational phenomenon for men (mostly) now in their 30s and 40s. This phenomenon, with its excesses, its silliness, but also its real significance (and disappointments) for a very large number of people, is ultimately what I am grappling with on my blog (and in the book I am writing on the subject). Judging by your post above, Dave, you were yourself caught up in all this “a long time ago”.
I’m very sympathetic to Erico’s post (above). Altogether I think the comments have been very interesting. I blogged Kathy’s post yesterday and I’m going to blog a follow-up to this post now.
Rule 1 of Hobbies: Most other people won’t understand.
Rule 2 of Hobbies: A significant portion of those who don’t understand will sneer, condescend, and otherwise behave as rude schmucks.
Rule 3 of Hobbies: Those sneering, condescending schmucks invariably have either silly incomprehensible hobbies of their own, or no life.
Rule 4 of Hobbies: The social acceptability of a hobby is directly related to how much others can call on the hobbyist for help. Is your hobby woodworking? “Hey, that’s cool, can you build me a bookcase?” Is it Star Wars? hmmmm, nothing obvious there, must be a useless hobby at best, or so goes the “conventional thinking.”
Fail on both Kathy’s column, and David’s weasely defense.
ya’ll keep mentioning 40 year old men. These guys have kids. My sons prefer the new movies- why not- they saw them in the theatre with their dad. They date their sister’s birth to the release date on the last movie. It’s their phenomenon, too. It really is cross- generational.
their dad can watch it with them.
What else are guys going to do together, cross-generationally- and familial? There are entire big think books about how most social enterprises were basically crashed and killed by obnoxious, rude, poorly- behaved, baby boomers. They don’t call boomers out by name- but the rot is shown, graph by graph, year by year-. What’s left standing still has boomer infestations. They are famously socially malignant. I can testify to that, even in simple private things like family reunions.
John Hughes built a movie career out of movies about the world the teenagers after the boomers built. He mentioned how they were ignored, neglected, patronized, looked down on, bullied, sneered at. The Star Wars conventions might be the only place that past- boomer grown men can gather, without an infestation of Boomers. The star wars fans are in the background of Pretty in Pink, they probably sit in class with the kids from Breakfast Club, they know how to use the machines Ferris Bueller plays with.
Forty year olds are in the single smallest generation group in American history. Forty years of being patronized, ignored, and sneered at—it’s not nice. Right now, I’m having to read about how awesome the numerous 20 somethings are. They might be. They should prove their worth. It would have been nice getting true-love press when I was in my twenties. As it is- I was a child when horror movies had evil children- a teenager when slashers were teens- twentysomething when Winona Ryder was saying we’re slackers- and so on and so forth… star wars and indiana jones were pretty much it for heroism and imaginative freedom.
My friends have been in war zones since high school- seriously- I came home from school talking to my roommate about fabric for dresses for homecoming- and all the guys I knew were around the family’s dining table with my dad, since he was an officer in the reserves-and they were just past basic- and they were trying to figure out if they were getting sent to whatever hot spot had just come up on the news. Then, every last single stupid “police action” we’ve been in- and every last single war- and every last “multi-lateral peacekeeping” thing–somebody I know has risked their life for stupid people far, far away. And there has not been one single little movie, anywhere, ever, talking about how brave, hardworking, practical, funny, handsome—anything. Just movie after movie after movie about mentally unstable, disoriented, homely little guys being depressed. and “specials”- These guys are funny, profane, smart, plugged into music, effective, handsome……
I’ll take the Star Wars universe full of handsome, heroic men racing speeders, drinking bad liquor, chasing princesses. it’s a good universe. It’s apparently the only one where guys get to be men.
I didn’t take Kathy’s article as a joke, was not amused, was offended, and was frankly surprised that PJ Media would publish such a thing.
Being told its a joke the next day doesn’t make it funny. This isn’t what I come to PJ media to read.
Ohhhhh, so this was her attempt at humor? This is her bringing teh funny?
Well, it certainly puts her George Carlin article in perspective…
i believe this was a link at drudge earlier this week:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074690/David-Canterbury-33-fights-Taser-police-armed-toy-LIGHTSABER.html
the guy was actually able to parry an incoming taser bolt/dart
who said star wars was good for nothing?
No angry emails and it is a big joke. It’s just an amusing humor column that many people are choosing to take seriously so they can demonstrate the point Kathy was making about people taking their obsessions too far.
How’d that work for Jon Huntsman? Wasn’t his campaign just an epic joke on Conservatives? Perhaps you and Kathy should consider your obsession with pissing-off a large number of your readers. And, to be clear, not just pissing them off but intentionally writing a column to piss them off. Writing a column, or now columns, simply to piss-off your readers is Obama-level stupid.
Frankly, both columns smack of a jealous and juvenile attack on those who aren’t math and science challenged. Perhaps if you’d worked a bit harder in school you could have earned a useful degree. Envy is not a useful attribute.
Look, Sasha Baron Cohen’s comedy bombs b/c he’s making fun of other people- regular, normal people who did not ask to be in his picture. He’s not making fun of himself, he’s not making fun of volunteers, like an improv troupe. This article was on the same level of being an @$$####. Kathy Griffin makes nasty comments about celebs, so, while they are in the public eye- they didn’t volunteer, either. South Park makes fun of different people- but the little guys they created come in for most of the abuse. Kathy Griffin gets shown at 11 at night, every so often. South Park gets a daily airing and a fan club. Which would you rather be?
There is a lot of ridiculous to be had in the Star Wars universe. I’d put the Hello, Kitty Darth Vader costume up there. Marching stormtroopers in the Rose Bowl Parade was incredibly bizarre, and, well, also a relief- estrella de guerre is here to stay.
Bayreuth Opera has been chugging along for over 100 years. Nobody calls out the people who sit through that, year after year. It’s the same story, the same sort of gemanstkunlonggermanwordmeaningcollectiblestuff.
People magazine points out the foibles of people in the public eye, and the good parts of people in private life. It’s a winning formula.
Cohen’s comedies bomb? On what world is this? I guess that’s why he presents short subjects on YouTube with 216 views like some people with the initial KS I could mention. Cohen is out of this world funny – that forgives a lot.
1. I like what I like. The fact that I like something makes it 100% cool, for I am 100% cool. Anyone who doesn’t like what I like is ipso facto a pathetic faggot loser.
2. I have a great deal of affection for pathetic faggot losers. Their antics amuse me.
3. I liked Star Wars to a certain extent, which gives it a certain amount of coolness. My liking of it, however, extends only to its ability to entertain me and my small child from time to time. It is not a particularly great movie from any standpoint, and the sequelae are worse.
4. Real men, as always, watch anime. Untranslated.
5. George Lucas is the archetypical Boomer: a narcissistic eternal adolescent who dresses up his shallowness in the black helmet and swirling cloak of pretentious pseudo-profundity. What a surprise! All he can make are movies about being a spoiled, middle-class teenager trying to get away from Mom and Dad and the Church and all those ruuuules, man. (He even married a black chick! He showed them, maaaaan!) Folks, expecting a Boomer of this sort to produce anything but self-indulgent dreck is like expecting a cow not to make flop.
6. Besides, Raiders was his best movie anyway.
7. Speaking of flop: Redtails!
8. The author is correct in saying that many fans of science fiction and of Star Wars/i> in particular are useless, parasitic overgrown adolescents. Most, in fact, should spend their lives staring out at the real world through the barbed-wire fence of a concentration camp. But that’s not practical. Our valuable concentration camp space should be reserved strictly for vampire fiction aficionados, video game dorks, and people who watch reality TV. Simple electronic monitoring of sci-fi nerds would suffice.
9. I love science fiction, which makes it automatically great. (See above.) But I love it in a cool, detached, Conneryesque way. Cool people such as me are arrogant and would never deign to show their emotions to the lesser breeds in an overt way, except when operating in the horizontal plane, and even then only to the extent necessary to generate ego-boosting screams of satisfaction from one’s partner.
10. I also limit my SF reading to those works written by hardcore, quasi-fascist, two-fisted manly white men (and total freakout nuttos, e.g., Philip K. Dick), who alone are capable of generating the scale, scope, and sensawunder I require from my science fiction. I wouldn’t line a catbox with that girly relationship-in-space shit that passes for science fiction these days.
11. Oh, yeah, save some space in the camps for people who read Heroique Phantasie. Tolkien said it all, and trying to outdo him is like trying to out-fugue Bach. I always hated that stupid elfy-welfy crap.
12. Those who are offended by opinions they find on the Internet are by definition psychological cripples. “Oh, boo hoo, somebody made fun of us sci-fi nerds on some website somewhere!” Gahh. You want to know what real Internet hatred and ridicule are like, Mr. Sissy Pants? You try being Catholic on the Internet.
13. To the author: I alone define (nay, embody) Cool. The next time you need to know if something is cool or not, don’t trust your own unreliable judgment. Simply e-mail me and I will form your opinions for you.
14. To those offended: U MAD BRO?
Brian Aldiss is much better than Phil Dick, you shallow juvenile. You must not have taken any REAL philosophy classes. I therefore dismiss the rest of your weasely rant, because you are not a TRUE fan.
I think you’ve done brilliant job of demonstrating that arrogant, pompous asses are also found – occasionally – on the right as well. BTW, I’m also Catholic and a SF fan. Big deal.
“U MAD BRO?”
Nah, I was laughing too hard to be offended.
Great post.
You sir, win the thread…….
Whether you like something, it appeals to you or it tickles you in that special place is irrelevant in judging its merit or quality. I admit I don’t like music, I like abusive noise. Most fiction annoys me if I could hold the focus to even read it through, and most film is like visual wallpaper with noise attached. But there is standard of objective quality I respect and I don’t use my personal perspective as the definitive standard to judging taste and I don’t take it to heart when someone pronounces my favourites as rubbish. Something about the honey badger comes to mind…….’>…….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
In 1977, I was nine years old living in a small town outside Albuquerque, passing the time wandering through the desert in and beyond the back yard looking for scorpions, stink bugs, skinks, anything really, of interest, usually finding nothing. That summer, as a treat, the family went to see Star Wars with family visiting from out of town. When Luke looked out at the double sunset on Tatooine, and the voilin strings strained away, that was me
Wait. A. Minute…. WTF? I don’t remember writing that!
I was 9 years old in 1977 living in a small town outside Albuquerque “in the farthest spot from the center of the universe.” We went to see Star Wars as a treat at the now defunct “Wyoming Mall Theater”.
That was me on Tatooine as well. I wanted to fight the Evil Empire, fight with lasers and be on the Good Guy’s side
So I joined the Army in 1986, got a degree in electrical engineering and since I got off active duty I work on America’s laser weapons with all the attendant spiritual and mental growth such a journey will encourage.
I still love to see the old Star Wars. It makes me feel good–like: “Yeah, I get it. That’s what I did…. I really did that shit in my own world, not games or COSplay.” That is a good feeling.
I got Kathy’s “Wind up”. I thought: “Oh, she’s winding us up!” The Fanboi’s are going to go apeshit!
But she is right: “Successful, mature men do not play computer games, attend “cons,” and get excited about overrated science fiction movies from the 1970s.”
But men can become successful and mature by taking their excitement about overrated science fiction movies from the 1970s and applying the inspiration to their own world, while occasionally refreshing the well of inspiration with a few computer games and “cons”!
I get it.
EXACTLY! Now why can’t so many of our fellow geeks grow up and get it too?
b/c she said ” guys don’t do this ever” not ” guys get inspired and every so often go get re- inspired.” Big difference.
If that was what she was actually trying to do, and I do not concede the point, but if it was, she failed miserably in a way that bespeaks a need to work on her skills. There is a place for the takedown article, but this one was handled about about as badly as I’ve ever seen. Which is a failure as much on the part of the editor as on the writer.
And before you ask “who are you to tell me I failed as an editor,” keep in mind this is what I do for a living in my day job, and I suspect I was doing it when you were still in short pants.
They quit the training too early, as Yoda warned against…
Now they got a hand all chopped off by their angry dad and are looking for the Millenium Falcon to rescue them.
PJM, you have unleashed cultural forces that we don’t really understand. Caveat.
So, inane blathering, poor writing and mean-spirited insults are a “trap” ?
Kathy’s failure to elucidate any thoughtful discussion is our fault?
I’m getting more than annoyed. You insult your readership and now you’re lying to us.
Keep digging.
I know I keep picking at this, but you did insult most of the men in my life.
George Lucas imagined a world that people wanted to move into. They wrote books, made art, wrote songs, made cards, set up conventions to meet each other, had christmas parties and new year’s parties…made friends, found spouses………George Lucas hired a great many creative people and unleashed them on his dreams. It’s all much, much greater than the sum of one man’s vision.
I don’t see these sort of hobbies springing from many other imagined franchises. Would you go to a Barbarella convention? That’s what was on offer, in the seventies, as a science fiction movie.
It is a world worth falling in love with, and imagining moving into.
Conventions aren’t just in the vendor rooms- they are in the hotel parties, in the dances, in the blood donation stations, at dinners, and on and on. I don’t attend- but my friends do. I’m a stay at home mother. I can tell you, most of regular culture thinks my brains fell out with the first baby. My sci-fi friends have been decent in defending parenting skills, when regular people get wound up on their fabulous real-world job-ness, and my total zero-ness.
I’m returning the favor as best as I am able.
“I was reading America’s perhaps finest prose stylist, Jack Vance.”
I agree. When it comes to pure writing style, Jack Vance is the greatest American author…ever.
IMO.
Plus, I love the guy’s stories. So, that’s a win-win.
Happily, Jack is still with us, though he’s 95 now, and says he’s not going to write anymore…and, that’s not so happy. Luckily, I can dust off my old copy of the Demon Princes, and keep on rocking.
As far as the main thrust of this thread, I love science fiction (obviously), and I was up all night last night playing Rome Total War (my heavily modded up version of the game), and if that makes me an immature, unsuccessful geek in the eyes of Kathy…well, I really don’t care what she thinks. I’m not living my life to please Kathy.
I thought her article was kind of rude and judgemental…but, it’s sure not worth getting upset about, fellas.
I mean you’re still going to love whatever it is you love doing, whether other people sneer at you or not, so might as well just ignore it, and get on with doing what you love.
Dave,
Against my better judgment I read a book sometime ago called “Tribal Leadership.” I thought it was going to be full of diversity mongering. Instead, it was a thought-provoking book about why organizations are the way they are. One example stuck with me.
Jack Welch, CEO of GE, was (in)famous for firing a large minority of his workers (20?) one year after another. He turned profits, having dumped the deadwood. What he didn’t realize, though, was that the top-down, I am the boss so don’t question me managers were left, and they simply hired more people just like the ones Jack Welch fired. The tail grew back.
You are like those second-rate bosses. You are contemptuous of others and think you know all you need to know. You are growing the fatty tail of the MSM right here on the backside of PJM, and you don’t even know it.
You know how far you have descended? Instead of making fun of bloggers in pajamas, you make fun of rocket scientists quoting the Sith.
You are Dan Rather. Get out.
It’s silly mindless crap like this that has me visiting this site less frequently and spending less time when I do. Bravo, PJ!
Satire requires a certain amount of skill. You two are the worst writers at PJM. As a long time reader I hope this is the last thing you ever do here, or anywhere for that matter. I wouldnt hire you to scrape the dog poop from my shoes.
Funny huh? Get it?
Dave Surls @ 22,
Two thumbs way up for Jack Vance! He is one of the greatest SF authors who ever lived.
Just apologize and promise to not do it again.
Grant that it was meant in humor. Grant that it was trolling. It was still a bad idea.
The deliberately insulting tone made Ms. Shaidle come across as being simultaneously arrogant and ignorant (not an unusual combination of traits in real life, of course). Further, it embodied much of the stereotypical ‘attitude’ of those trying to seem ‘adult’ by putting down the interests and pleasures of others.
Let me express it this way: “Real men don’t worry about whether they’re real men.” Likewise, a comment could have been made that Star Wars (or whatever) is overdone or overrated without being intentionally annoying and provocative. Our society today is overflowing with snark and superiorist put-downs from all directions and to all directions. Adding to that doesn’t help anyone.
The same piece could have been posted, with very slight rewriting, about _anything_. It could have been posted about people who like to eat at McDonalds, while real adults eat in sophisticated restaurants and eat foods fit for adults. It could have been written about hunters from a lefty POV, or about animal lovers from a ‘righty’ POV. It could have been written about
religious believers by an atheist or doubters by a believer. All that’s needed is the ‘tone’, the superiorist attitude and the delibate insults designed to set off people already rubbed raw by such.
So it is not surprising that some people took it seriously.
So your the person to blame for the plethora of grammatical mistakes in that article? Here’s my favorite:
“Influence #2: Kurosawa. Star Wars is The Hidden Fortress in space. We nuked Japan and stole their movies! (They only deserved the first former.)”
Nice editing. Or in truth was this drunk-blogging?
Basically, if the audience does not get the joke, it is the fault of the author, not the audience. But please, support this premise of humor. What do you consider the funniest bit in her essay?
I give a more complete response to the original article at my site.
“So your the person to blame for the plethora of grammatical mistakes in that article?”
Don’t you mean “you are” the person to blame?
Yes, I did. You see how easy it is to admit error?
But at the same time, I also don’t write or edit professionally.
As Glenn Reynolds says, “Layers.”
I admit error.