The image of the electric guitar player as outlaw is alive and well, but this can’t be helping the economy much at all:
Federal agents are in the process of raiding the offices of the Nashville-based Gibson Guitar Corporation.
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents began executing search warrant this morning on guitar factories and corporate headquarters in Nashville and Memphis, according to Nicholas Chavez, special agent in charge with the Fish and Wildlife.
Chavez said the raid included both the corporate headquarters on Park Plus Boulevard and a factory on Elm Hill Pike.
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Gibson was also raided in 2009 for possible violations of the Lacey Act, which bans the importation of endangered plants and wildlife. Federal officials seized ebony and other woods they said were prohibited under the act. Gibson has said in the past it was “fully cooperating” with the investigation.
Yeah, this’ll do wonders for the nation’s unemployment rate, particularly when it causes the next millionaire thinking of investing in a new business or salvaging a century-old one to have second thoughts.
What happens should the ebony turn out to be legal?
If the ebony turns out to be legal…they’ll find something else in the corporate records or computers they seize, or personnel they interrogate. They’ll dig and dig until they find something and prosecute someone. Otherwise it would show the raid was without purpose, and we can’t have that.
This is not a supposition or sarcasm, this is standard operating procedure. In MOST of these cases the businesses, managers and/or investors are NOT prosecuted for the announced purpose of the raid but for “other things” found during the raid.
Don’t worry, with 100,000 regulations, statutes and laws on the books, they’ll find something to justify this police action as legal, put a few people in jail and shut down a business.
I hope they fine gibson, I had dealt with their internal management & they are NOT honorable people at all.
Any more evidence, Le, or shall they be jailed on your sole and extremely veiled accusation?
I really like Gibson’s products. I own a Hummingbird acoustic, a truly sweet sounding guitar. The Les Paul, SG, and ES-335 are American classics. On the other hand, I read really bad things about their management. Probably the same stuff you’re talking about. I hope they don’t succeed in running a great old American company out of business.
Leland, you’re not helping a bit !!
I hope that is not Leland Sklar, the distinguised electric bassist.
Feds raided Gibson because of ebony? Racists. Call the NAACP!!!
It seems like if you have illegal wood, they’ll jump on you. If you have legal wood and illegal workers they’ll give you a pass.
Don’t the Feds have anything better to do? Obviously not.
I have morning wood
If you have Norwegian wood, you could be a Beatle without Lacey Act protection.
We need to get rid of the Lacy act. Sigh. Well anyway, yet another reason for companies to move jobs overseas… you don’t have to put up with stupid US regulations.
as a law abiding luthier, lover of all music,and a musician i firmly believe the laws are there for a reason. so good companys can stay good companys . its obvious that the once great gibson is one of those effected companys tradition is dying they could have used any number of other species of wood and they got caught with thier pants down good riddance.
“good riddance.”
That’s right — screw all those employees! Stick it to the man — the working man!
Wow! Jonathan Prine, you are judge and jury. Way to buy the “guilty until proven innocent” lie of the NWO. The problem that Gibson is having is with the US government attempting to tell INDIA how to interpret their own laws regarding the export of wood products. Gibson holds the appropriate documentation from India.
This is another massive over-reach by the jack-booted thugs to continue to whittle away at our constitutional rights. First its the wood in guitars, then it is the wood in furniture, then automobiles and then gun stocks. Wake up America! This is a systematic destruction of our national sovereignty and individually guaranteed, God-given rights!
BTW, there are many internationally known musicians that will no longer transport their beloved instruments out of the country with them when they perform overseas for fear of the gestapo confiscating their tools of the trade. Can you imagine the potential impact this has on other wooden instruments? Piano, cello, viola, Harps. I can see the international headlines now, “Rare 1696 Bonjour Stradivarius confiscated by US Custom and Boarder agents causes cancellation of concert by the celebrated Amadeus Quartet.”
This is absolutely obscene!
Wonder how long it will take Gibson to realize that they’ll never face this kind of raid if they relocate to China.
Does anyone wonder why Fender’s “Mexi-Strats” are so popular? I have played American made guitars (magnificent craftsmanship, even from the big companies), but I can’t afford one. Somehow I don’t think this will help.
So the next guitar your local shop sells will probably be made in Mexico (they do know something about guitars, after all) or Indonesia, or China. I am certain that all of those impeccable regimes certify each piece of wood as it is laid in the jig. I think the Chinese in particular value foreign forests over domestic job growth.
Maybe we should concentrate on dominating the air-guitar economy. Clean, Green jobs for the 21st Century!
Many people on the net complain about “outsourcing” and “free trade”. These same people should pull their heads out of their arses and realize that it is asinine regulation that makes it necessary in the first place. Until we start getting rid of federal laws and regulations, I don’t hear complaints about outsourcing and free trade.
Sure the Chinese wont be bothered by the Lacey Act, CITES or other such nonsense, but Gibson will have a hard time selling their products when they cant import them into to the USA.
And this is not just about new manufactured items, I know musicians who are afraid to take their older instruments abroad for fear that some border agent will seize them as contraband upon return. Same goes for high grade hunting rifles and shotguns.
And this is not a couple minor things, we are talking about certain types of rosewood (very common on older guitars), abalone (ditto), ivory (even a fifty year old shotgun bead), and many other materials. If the agent even suspects your item is verboten he can seize it and it is up to YOU to prove him wrong.
Ebony – and Ivory – working together in perfect harmony…
No, wait, that’s pianos not guitars…
@Leland, yes, whenever I have a bad experience with a business, I too look forward to them being raided by the government for violations of arbitrary victimless laws. It’s so satisfying to see the power of the government wielded against people I just don’t like. Why, they should pass even more pointless regulations so I have more ways to take revenge on my enemies!
A GOOD REPLY TO LELAND, STEVE.
I don’t know if Gibson is unionized, but if they aren’t, unionizing will stop these raids dead in their tracks.
This is the best example of the cure being worse than the disease that I’ve seen in ages.
Remember Barry and his kissing up to the unions when he ran for office? TN is a right to work state. Just wondering…… RON PAUL 2012
Corrupt politicians and Wall St. bankers and businessmen loot the economy to the tune of trillions, and get off without so much as a slap on the wrist, and our Federal law enforcement agencies look the other way. They do have time to raid Gibson, a prestigious firm over a century old and one of America’s most storied manufacturers. And people in government wonder why we no longer respect them?
“Wonder how long it will take Gibson to realize that they’ll never face this kind of raid if they relocate to China.”
SDN, they’ve already realized it.
Here’s a link to Gibson’s Guitar Store they set up in Shanghai a couple years back.
http://www.cnngo.com/shanghai/shop/play-shanghai-gibson-flagship-store-933466
Shanghai has a few blocks of Guitar Stores on JinLing Lu Road, and is already booming as a place to buy some very decent guitars. UPS and Fedex both have plenty of flights out of Shanghai each and every day to virtually any location in the world, so the concept of Gibson relocating its production lines to China is not simply a possibility but something that without much effort from here on out would be a done deal.
The Lacey Act is for all imported parts made of wood. It won’t help to move offshore – exporters have to declare the Lacey Act as well. Its really a pain in the ass – you have to list all the species used in your particle board…LOL.
If you are a bad guy logging teak, you can easily just lie. Your teak becomes ramin….who’s going to catch you, its a document.
Someone in Gibson screwed up some paperwork most likely.
Our government has a lot of time on its hand. And no common sense. And a lot of humorless employees. And no concern at all for economic conditions.
It shows once again what the ancient Roman Solon said: “Laws are like spiders’ webs which, if anything small falls into them they ensnare it, but large things break through and escape.”
Environmentalcases at the Fed have clearly jumped the shark. Or is this Chicago style payback for refusing to contribute to BHOzo’s re-election campaign?
If they moved their manufacturing overseas, maybe to Mexico, they wouldn’t have this problem. More silly intrusion by our wonderful federal government, who is here to help us, don’t forget.
My best friend’s father works for Gibson in Nashville, and they do a lot of work with China already. The guy is fluent in Mandarin and spends 75% of his time overseas. A move like this will make the company rethink it’s stance on keeping the company American based, especially when it already has plants and factories overseas.
I guess the campaign donation wasn’t the right amount.
A “raid” is by definition an act of violence. Men rush in with guns drawn. Accidents happen. People get shot. All for what? A few boards of wood that might be from the wrong tree?
Given the very liberal customer base of Gibson, the company’s public reputation is far more at risk by a simple press release from the government, that is should they have solid evidence.
It costs government an immense amount of money to hire, train and equip sufficient agents to conduct a raid and then to properly handle the evidence collected. It implies hundreds of thousands of dollars in budgetary authority, that is if nobody gets injured. Should a taxpayer on ObamaCare get wounded by an accidental discharge of a government firearm, the total costs of a raid could approach a million dollars.
So, clearly, when government finds it too easy to raid a place to check for pieces of wood that might be in dispute, we are seeing a government that has way too much money to spend. The old adage that to the workman with a new hammer, every problem is a nail, fits here.
We must ask the House to put the agency that initiated this raid at the top of the list for its budget to be gone over with a fine toothed comb.
It costs government an immense amount of money to hire, train and equip sufficient agents to conduct a raid and then to properly handle the evidence collected.
But..but…those agents have well-paid jobs for life! Why do you hate creating jobs?! (’cause the only acceptable job is a government job, or something….)
If you are wondering why so many Fenders are made in Mexico, my understanding is that California limits that amount of VOC’s that Fender can emit finishing guitars in the US. Fender ships the work south of the border and Fender is replacing new lacquers with older style varnishes in many of their US made guitars which are much softer and wear faster.
Obviously they had to raid them since the gibson guys might have flushed the wood down the toilet to hide the evidence.
Boeing, Google, now Gibson. Yes, let’s make every effort to curb, fine, tax,penalize, and stifle American business. Let us take the evil job creators down, while at the same time we demand more taxes and we will spend more. The gap will grow and then WE will be in power.
Sarcastic in MI.
The CITES/Lacey Act is going to put some people out of business, period. And not just little guys. It won’t move the business to China — they have to do all the same paperwork on guitars coming into the country that they would have to do on the raw wood.
Let’s hear it for Obama——killing the nation one job at a time.
In other news, executives from Gibson Guitars raided the Justice Department based on suspicions that officials from that agency were illegally selling weapons to Mexican drug cartels.
If it’s considered good government to send the Federal thugs in to raid an American icon like Gibson for little bits of rosewood and ebony, how about sending some journalist thugs into the White house to search and confiscate the authoritarian statist materials from which the Obama administration constructs its anti-liberty, anti-prosperity substitute for Constitutional government?
I think it’s good to have laws that protect the rainforests. On the other hand, I don’t look forward to the day when we’re all playing guitars made of eco-friendly and sustainable recycled cardboard.
Bugs, you apparently are not aware that Gibson is a leader in reforestation projects in these countries from which their wood comes. Try doing a little research before you run your mouth.
Of course, this is exactly why our country is in the mess that it is in. SHEEPLE UNITE! Baaaaaaah! Baaaaah! Baaaaah!
So this is the kind of job the government creates? A number of years ago I was working on a building development project when during a meeting with a zoning official stated “I’m moving this project as fast as I can”. I told him ” with all due respect, your “vehicle” is not equipped with an accelerator. It only has a brake”. He was dumbfounded. He also stopped “helping” and the process was sped up by us.
The mere presence of the Lacey Act and raid squads slows down productivity and enterprise. Be very wary when Government jobs are created.
The raids will continue until the jobs are gone!
Why doesn’t Gibson just buy a waiver from one of the Chicago guys in the Obama administration?
how many feds invaded the gibson plants?
those dang guitars are heavy as hell; would need a small army of roadies to move any significant number around
We should all become John Galt and starve the government of the resources it uses to harm us.
Been there, hope they didn’t discover the bar behind the inconspicuous shed door.
What are you new wave amerikan people bitching about? This is what you deserve! You let the U.S. government take your freedom and rights. Now they are stomping on your lives! All you people want laws for this and for that! Now you have them! The older style of us Americans are considered outlaws when we don’t conform to change! Change has devastated you folks! And in the future, it will destroy your children! But who am I! So when you see that your children are wearing the same clothes, heads hanging down in submissive silence, chips installed in their bodies, welfare controlled by your electronics turning currency into credits, permission to bear children, and so on, you can pat yourself on the back! Some of this is already happening! And the rest is in the works! It is being bred psycologically through generations. The government is deeming man unfit to care for himself! They already tell you how to raise your children! Read yhe definition of communism. We’ve already exchanged our freedom for protection! What more do you want?
i agree with you completely. there are proper channels gibson or any other manufactorer can go through to get said protected woods
It would have made more sense to just put a big tarrif on the endangered wood, rather than banning it outright. For rare specialty uses like this, people would still be willing to pay the tarriff, but for most purposes they would not. This would be enough to protect the forest from indiscriminate use, but still allow specialty boutique outfits like this to do business. And since honest outfits could also get it legally, even if it costs more, there would be much less incentive to hide it or lie about it, making enforcement much easier. And it would even provide us with some extra revenue. But no econut would ever think of a sensible aproach like that, since they dont understand markets, only cooercion.
#18 Harun
From what I have heard, Gibson is not accused of violating any US law. It is legal to import ebony with the proper US and international certifications, which they have. What the government is apparently doing is trying to enforce an obscure Indian law that bans export of raw wood that has not been finished by Indian workers. Yet, the Indian government approved the export.
It is fairly obvious that this is a personal vendetta by the administration, and as Akiva above says, they will find, invent, or fabricate something. Moving overseas is an option, with a change in marketing.
Guitars are a worldwide market, albeit the US is a huge market. Move production outside the US. [I have thought of Canada or Mexico, but apparently they have production facilities in China already.] Move the corporate footprint outside the US, incorporating elsewhere. Continue making the top line guitars, being careful to maintain the proper certifications for any endangered woods. But only sell them outside the US. Only sell the low and mid-grade guitars in the US. If Americans want the top line ones, they will have to buy them outside the country and deal with importing them somehow themselves. It will not be Gibsons’ problem. If some Left Coast music star gets arrested and his guitar confiscated by the regime, maybe Hope and Change will seem a little less attractive; to him and to his fan base.
Financially, it will improve Gibsons’ profits. And they will be free from the North American branch of the Kafka fan club.
If you are dealing with a system that is the rule of the whims of the Nomenklatura instead of the rule of law; your choice is fight or flight.
Subotai Bahadur
Well said Bahadur!
Ditto Subotai, it amazes me how this administration gets away with “Fast and Furious” selling guns to thugs across the border… an American Agent gets killed with those weapons. They blame the guns shops in TX and AZ. but get caught in the lie and no one seems to give a rats ass. Well same old same old here with Gibson, you are correct, this is about this admin. going after a U.S. Co. in support of India law, apparently Gibson did not grease the proper official in India. SO if you voted for hope and change… Well you got it… RON PAUL 2012