Do Women on Dating Sites Want Liberal Men?
January 27th, 2013 - 4:51 am
Over at my new site, Helen’s Page, poster Jeremy has some questions about dating sites:
But this is an observation after using Okcupid futilely for a few years now. Pretty much every single women on the site is a liberal who doesn’t want to date conservatives. (They have a match question for this)
Even women who are Ayn Rand fans. Even women who are hard core Christians, anti-abortion, anti-sex before marriage, etc, etc, etc
The few exceptions are “centrists” who don’t want to date conservatives.
What gives? Is it just the web site? Are most women who lean conservative already married? Are women just more prone to be liberal?
Jeremy’s question is an interesting one. Do most women want liberal men? If so, why?
It’s a dating site issue, I think.
Most single women lean liberal/left, and, if asked, will say that they would also prefer a liberal/left leaning man as a mate. Like anything else on the “list”, for some women this is a “must have”, while, in my experience, for most women it is one of many things that will be compromised if other things are in place. That’s in real life.
On a dating site, because of the absolute cornucopia of choice, things that in real life would not be “must haves” become that simply because of the overload of people creating the perception that one can have everything on the list — i.e., it tends to make more, or all, of the list into “must haves” because the oversupply of choice creates the perception that prioritizing the list is not important or necessary. This is why dating sites, at least for men, are *more* selective and brutal than the competition in real life — it’s a numbers game, and there are far more men crowded into dating sites than a single woman would ever meet over the course of several years in real life. It’s a numbers game that is stacked against guys, really.
So, yes, single women lean that way, generally, but whether this is a deal-breaker or not differs as between real life and online selection, because online selection is a much more brutal numbers game due to the massive size of the market.
I agree with Brendan, while we women that aren’t full conservatives are looking for a mate, we are likely to be looking for someone who will either (a) be like us in our views or (b) accept our views.
There is nothing worse than being months past the honeymoon stage and have your ultraconservative man (that worshipped every other thing about you for a year)now berate you for your views, because they aren’t exactly like his…
With all due respect, I don’t think it’s pollyticks you’re complaining about…it’s the abusive sociopath who’s an expert at feigning sanity for however many weeks or months are necessary to rope in his victim.
In all those abuse stories the villain (or villainess) is able to play squeaky-clean Sir Galahad or Little Mary Sunshine until the victim has been reeled in. Then the mask comes off. If the villain of your piece was “ultraconservative” I’m guessing his politics were the least of it. Dare I guess he was also controlling, jealous, and paranoid? And when did the beating start?
Ouch!! You (respectably) hit the nail on the head.
(No, no beating), But everything else you say is there.
Thank you, sometimes we need to be called out by a complete stranger before we can see the light…
Thank you…
Are your views respectable? Are they well thought out and based on fact? Or are they based on emotion and the desire to be liked? Even ultra-conservatives can respect alternative views that are backed by facts (then the difference comes to ethics), but the contempt comes when views can’t be backed by more than “But I’m I nice person and don’t like my views questioned”.
If your difference comes down to ethics then maybe there are deeper problems and you should find a liberal man who has mommy problems that you can control.
Whereas your views are based on facts, and are therefore objectively true and unassailable?
Excellent observation about liberal ‘men’. My ex, in retrospect, was subconsciously attracted to liberal men. She had no kids of her own, reared two boys. After we broke up I still couldn’t figure her out after 3 years, but she kept me on my toes and was very pretty to me and stacked. After we broke up, it finally clicked one day when I was comparing the guy before me and my follower. She and I are still in touch. But I digress.
They both had children they couldn’t pay the child support for AND pay their own living expenses/bills. So, she mommy’d them. So she made sure they’d keep up with their bills, the best they could, and she’d give them money. She even bought each of them a used car! I couldn’t believe it. She was not making a big salary, 35K max. After the mystery was settled I am thankful, I, for some unknown reason wasn’t the long term solution for her.
In other words, she wanted a bigtime Betaboy with lots of money. Upper middle class liberal professional male… yep. Fits the bill.
I suppose women on dating sites want liberal men the same way my 40-something single mom friends want sensitive guys who will be supportive, yet they keep dating sociopathic losers who hit and abuse them. Women who turn to dating sites are generally directionless and don’t know what they want, and usually define their wants by “I don’t want this” and “I don’t want that.” And half of the “don’t wants” are basically bogus.
or [more likely] vice versa.
from my vantage; lefties have had bigger problems with conservatives… for as long as I can recall / my entire life.
Its been so bad for the last 10+ years though that it will probably become more mutual (and, thus, harder to stop). Conservatives have about had it with being equated with evil, racists, blaw blaw blaw bs without starting to take it personally…
I get the feeling that any man with half a brain and one functioning ear could figure out that you are intolerant and decide to end matters there.
Haha, that sounds like the comment of a tolerant person.
You make some good points. I think that before the internet and the fantasy that the perfect person was out there, people were more down to earth, employed more common sense and were much more accepting. On a well known dating site a couple of years ago a woman wrote: “don’t waste my time and yours. If you did not support Barack Obama I am not interested in meeting you”. Another woman wrote: “if you listen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck, don’t waste my time by responding”. 75% of the women are liberal but they are also very demanding on things like height. The 5’0″ woman who is looking for a man 6’3″ tall in generally not concerned with politics. The woman who wants a ‘man with rock solid abs’ is not interested in politics either. There is very little in between for choice, it depends on which website you are dealing with.
Now, as far as women being picky, it does seem as if many have stated “I am not willing to settle”. I am not sure that you are accurate, however, when you say that the cards are stacked against men because of the large choice of suitors. I think it is stacked against men because many women have either a) been unable to establish a relationship and keep failing or b) they were mistreated by men and they are not ready to commit to a relationship or c) they are unrealistic in their expectations. It seems to me that women on dating sites have a vision of the perfect or ideal mate and they won’t consider others. I have met several women on dating sites and had two longish relationships. Many times we had a great date or two but we did not click and we both knew it. Our parents met people in their home towns and (in the words of modern women) “settled” for that person, fell in love and have lived together often for 50 years. Love is not always dictated by instant chemistry. The issue is that people on dating sites are always wondering if there is not someone better around the next corner. To women who think that way, the clock is ticking……tick, tick, tick
I’d guess it’s because lefty men are easy to slap around.
Wow, Ern, your internet tough guy talk has really convinced me of your manly, man-ness.
One thing for sure ,conservative man , good if they put a high value on the women who still accept them after they brought us to fight North korea , Vietnam , Lebanon wise to run with tail between the legs, Iraq, one can see why conservative man appear to have THE MARK of CAIN on his forehead and if you go to their sites women begin to debate if there is pure evil in the world
Bow your head low to the woman still on your side and make sure she take away the gun under your pillow and put this in locked box so no one fears you at home
“Do most women want liberal men? If so, why?”
It’s probably one of those brain-heart issues with women.
In their mind a liberal man would be better because he would be more agreeable to her views. A yes-man good friend if you will. A conservative guy who sticks to his views would rock her boat in the beginning.
In her heart, nope. She wants a leader and most liberal men I know are terrible leaders. They go passive-aggressive instead of head on. My thought is most conservative women are that way because of their fathers and/or husbands.
It’s been my experience that conservative men are the passive aggressive ones, and the liberal men were better communicators and more straightforward about what they liked or didn’t like.
Pretty much all those sites match based on radius around a zip code. Did the original questioner say where he was living?
Looking at it from a slightly different, slightly more cynical, perspective: Maybe liberal woman are just more likely to be single. Cue Roissy to explain.
In my experience, lots of women want to me married. Rather fewer actually want to be wives and mothers. Fewer still would make good wives and mothers.
Women are highly susceptible to herd mentality, and she doesn’t want to be associated with anyone the Alinskyites, I mean the media, says is uncool.
I noticed this same phenomenon when I was online dating. Speaking personally, I’m more open-minded and libertine than 90% of the so-called “liberals” I know, PLUS I am not a weak male pc-obsessed feminist. But, you know, I don’t drink the Obama koolaid so…
Why would a conservative woman want a libertine? Values and behavior matter.
Sunday morning church is the easiest place to pick up women for casual sex.
Sex and the City, too.
OkCupid has always been known as OkSWPL.
Plenty of fish is the super prole one.
I’ve never been on the pay sites so I wouldn’t know what their deal is.
That must be my problem.
My older sister has been married three times. The first two times to liberals. The first one was whacko, the second one was a philanderer. Now she’s married to a Republican. Although she is/or was a huge Democrat herself, she’s never been happier. My theory is that liberals may be fun to date, but they don’t believe in the commitments and other values that lend towards success in marriage.
plus; women who think they’re open minded about relationships have a higher chance of chasing emotionally unavailable men. A social con would have a better chance of not getting caught up in that trap… As least that was the pattern with a pretty, smart, has a good job lefty 30 something lefty friend… who dated lefty men and ended up getting the run around / played. One guy strung her along for 4 or 5 years… On the plus side; I think she has learned… I hope anyway; she does keep adding cats…
Contrast with my first date with my wife (being a conservative myself) She was playing anti-coy asking the dating questions a lot of people wait for months (or more) to talk about on the first date. Yes; looking for marriage. Yes; want kids. Et cetera… been married 12 years with a daughter.
Hmmm. On our second date, my future wife mentioned casually that she wanted 14 children. I asked her out on a third date, the first guy to pass her screening test. On date 3 we were talking about how to raise kids. Ended up with 5.
Good point, but it’s not just politics. People are always fooling themselves and others about what they want in life. What people want and what they think they want and what they say they want are three very different things.
Though I think you’re onto something. Most of my activist liberal friends are on marriage number two, and most of my conservative friends are still happily married. Is this true in general? If so, maybe the dating pool at 30+ is mostly liberal because those are the men/women looking for spouse #2. I’d take that with a huge grain of salt unless Helen has some stats to back it up.
I’m a libertarian-leaning conservative and I’m on marriage #2. However, that was because I choose poorly for marriage #1. I was lucky to come to my senses and get out of it quickly. Similar story for my wife.
I will agree that when I was in my 30s, a lot of the single women I met ranged from center-left to off-the-edge-of-the-table left.
I know you mean well, but, God, that sounds stupid.
Considering the response rates I’ve gotten from both Eharmony and Match.com, the question should be whether women on dating sites want men at all.
It’s not you. Women’s expectations are on steroids.
I’m printing the T-shirts right now.
Men’s expectations:
http://www.oempromo.com/upload/Prod_477/Radio-Flyer-Classic-Red-Tricycle_7043154.jpg
Women’s expectations:
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/lockheed_sr71_l1.jpg
Heh.
You said it.
This.
My results have been equally poor for both Match.com and OKCupid. At least with OKCupid I’m not paying for the ongoing failure.
And it’s not just politics. I’ve steered clear of anything political in my ad, and I steer clear of clear liberal warning signs (i.e., vegans) in women I email.
I think the majority of women on dating sites don’t want to go out, they just want to be asked out for ego gratification.
Since I work in high tech, don’t drink, and am unchurched, my opportunities for meeting women are somewhat limited.
I don’t drink or go to church either but I love to go where there’s live music, especially the blues. Fortunately I live where there’s a great music scene, and usually no cover (or just a couple of bucks).
I have a friend who is a liberal woman. She’s dating a very conservative guy. If you asked her, before they started dating, what type of guy she would want to date, it would not match up with this guy at all, for political and other reasons (particularly that he smokes). But they have a good relationship. So, yeah, what you think you want isn’t necessarily so relevant when you meet them in person. That’s an issue with online dating more than anything.
I’ve actually never dated a conservative before, though I’ve had some girlfriends who hadn’t been interested in politics and who, though still apathetic, leaned right/libertarian after dating me.
Many had previously never considered dating a conservative. Several had considered it to be a non-starter until they met me, and many times the girl’s mom (never dad, oddly) would offer to debate me because, well… what better way to deal with your daughter’s new boyfriend than to argue politics with him?
Usually, it was a continuing source of wonder to them that they would be willing to date one of Them. In one case, I was with someone for three years, and she was a pretty hard-core (and activist) leftist. We were extremely close, but she was also very troubled by what I can only describe as apostasy. Eventually she broke it off, and through the grapevine I learned that she was dating men who were suspiciously like me– but in liberal form. I hope she found what she was looking for, but as of three years later she still apparently hadn’t.
A recurring theme was the fact that they rejected the idea of dating a conservative out of hand. And then later, considered it a flaw in my character that they were nobly overlooking (and perhaps a challenge for them to convert me). Later still, several acknowledged that conservatives sometimes have a point, but they were very uncomfortable with this and it didn’t help that I wasn’t actively trying to convert them, just standing up for my beliefs when they tried to challenge me. I think that’s what turned the girl above against the relationship– when she started to realize she might be changing her mind about the world.
I recently connected with another former girlfriend from may years ago. She had been casually liberal before we got together, and a few years later when it ended she was neutral to right-leaning. As with the other girl, she dated many guys for about five years after me who she described as being much like me (“sweet, nerdy, and Jewish” <– her words, not mine). Her first-ever boyfriend of her own ethnicity was a hard-core, activist liberal, who immediately took on the personal project of converting her. They later split up, and she mostly dates in her own ethnicity and is again casually liberal.
Still another woman, after we broke up, started going after libertarian men. I don't know how that turned out for her, but she'd told me that she had promised herself that she would never date a Republican when we first went out, so perhaps her views had softened.
My wife in many ways fits the mold of most of my girlfriends. She had previously decided that she would never date a Republican. Then she made an exception for me because we clicked so well. Her mom liked me, but still tried to argue politics. As we got serious, she found herself changing but held firm to her core convictions even as she became comfortable with changing her mind on some issues. She's still a pretty mainstream liberal, but as we approach our first full decade together, the political differences aren't important. We talk politics, sometimes, but either of us can hit "Eject" if we feel uncomfortable and only once or twice have ever needed to.
The thing is, we as conservatives (and especially libertarians) consider this a clash of ideologies, but from my dating experience, I think liberals construct their politics as mostly a matter of identity. That is, they see being liberal as part of being a True Indian/Korean/Latina/Jew/Scotswoman/etc. And, of course, part of being a True Woman. Their problem with conservatives and conservatism isn't one of facts or values or priorities, it's ultimately about being true to what they see as who and what they are. Obviously, political affiliation is about both identity and that affiliation's substantive content, but I don't think as conservatives we give enough credit to the effects of forty years of balkanization on an individual level. It HURTS to be alone, to not be truly a member of your referent group, because you're politically different. And so in that light, of course many liberal or even neutral women won't entertain the notion of dating someone on the Right. For my wife, the answer is to hold true to her beliefs even as she tolerates mine. Which is great, because that's how I feel, too. I read my news, she watches her Daily Show, and we're both happy.
My wife has often pointed out how prior to meeting me she would never in a million years have seen herself dating, much less marrying, a conservative. But also that she's intensely happy with me and glad she didn't reject me out of hand over my politics. Ultimately, we succeeded because our relationship is 99% not about politics. Life is mostly not about politics, but for some people it’s an all-consuming spectator sport that defines them.
I think many of those OKCupid girls could be very happy with the right man/woman, even if they don’t share their ideology. People often fool themselves about what they want in life. But why bother wasting your time going after them? They made their call, and lots of websites (and social groups, and coffee shops, and people you just bump into) are filled with great girls who aren’t so narrow-minded. Their narrow-mindedness is ultimately their problem, not yours.
My ex-wife was liberal when we met, and then she moved rightward where she is now quite conservative. I don’t think that’s an odd progression from what I have seen in other marriages as well. My current GF is quite conservative, and always has been (conservative disposition, conservative Christian background).
“The thing is, we as conservatives (and especially libertarians) consider this a clash of ideologies, but from my dating experience, I think liberals construct their politics as mostly a matter of identity. ”
That’s an excellent way of putting it: leftism is a tribal thing. If you want to belong to the tribe, you must show your fealty to the tribe. Which also explains why politics is such a huge part of a leftist’s life. It goes like this: conservatives base their actions on a set of moral and rational principles that they arrive at individually. These principles are based on reason and are fairly stable, and they are integrated into a conservative’s thinking to the extent that they need not be consciously thought about most of the time. Every now and then some kind of crisis comes along where the principles must be examined, but on a day-to-day basis the conservative just lives them. And because of this, conservatism does not lend itself to identity politics or tribalism, because most conservatives don’t need to think about that stuff most of the time.
On the other hand, leftism is not based on either morality or reason. It is a constantly shifting sand of fashion and political correctness. Therefore, the lefist must constantly think about every word, every action, to ensure that they are in compliance with the dictates of the week. The tribal interrogation spotlight is always on and it is unforgiving. The leftist who slips up faces ostracism, and since many leftists know in their heart of hearts that they do not have the ability to survive outside of the tribe, ostracism means oblivion.
I’m no Roissy, but I’d wager women are hesitant to admit to either themselves or the world what, precisely, they actually desire in a man. Or can you explain to me how a 20-something British woman can write a torpid, badly-executed piece of trash book called “Fifty Shades of Gray” and become a BILLIONAIRE when less than 1% of the female population would describe Mr. Gray as their dream date???
Men err on the side of too much information (we have little difficulty telling people we’d like Christina Hendricks, and you damned well know why). Women, OTOH, are too wrapped up in projecting their snowflakey, angelic selves.
There. I said it.
Unfortunately, I have witnessed several men reporting to be the exact opposite of who they were.
They claimed to be sincere, wholesome, family men looking for exclusive relationships… They asked to be exclusive and took their profiles down, they engaged in sexual relations with their new “girlfriend” only to be found out later as having 3, 4 sometimes more of these “exclusive” girlfriends who thought they were so great. (Covered up by their busy work, travel and family obligations)
I think the men on dating sites can be just as insincere as the women..
I don’t doubt that at all, except I don’t believe women are insincere. Rig them to a polygraph and they’ll flatline the beast while spewing the most ridiculous, self-serving nonsense. They actually believe they want a nice guy who’s kind, a gentleman, loves children and animals, never goes hunting and hates guns. Then Chuck Norris will walk in the room with a gun in one hand and a dead moose in the other and that woman’s panties will hit the floor with a splash.
In my experience, both men and women are enormously adept at fooling themselves. Both are equally likely to throw their hearts away in bad relationships with bad people who don’t correspond at all to their stated preferences– but who suspiciously resemble all the other people they’re attracted to.
That’s both a man and a woman thing. If you keep finding yourself falling for girls who are attracted to the wrong guys (and more importantly, not to you) then you need to ask some hard questions about your own preferences. If you’re lending a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to cry on to a friend out of the goodness of your heart, then great. If you’re waiting in the wings hoping to swoop in and save them, then you’re not being their friend and you’re not likely to ever be their lover, either. You’re just trying (unsuccessfully) to use them, and meanwhile you are the one being used.
Agreed.
The best comment so far.
Hey Zorro: “Then Chuck Norris will walk in the room with a gun in one hand and a dead moose in the other and that woman’s panties will hit the floor with a splash…” Dude. Really? “…hit the floor with a splash…”? You you ever wonder whether this way of seeing women has anything to do with why their “snowflakey, angelic selves” don’t want to get with you?
There I said it.
Hey, you don’t need to tell them what you’re thinking…you just need to know what they’re thinking. Seems to me acceptance of how women are is a lot more honest and also important to building relationships, than kow towing to Katie Roiphe’s version of what women are.
My wife has always appreciated sexually aggressive behavior from me, and I dated a lot of girls who definitely did, none moresoe than a cute communist/green party activist who ‘worked’ as a feminist performance artist and painter. Nothing assaultive to be sure, just very aggressive and assertive.
What we say we want and what makes us hot (and therefore what we actually want) are often two different things, and there are some differences between what we want right now, and what we’re willing to put up with 5 years down the road. Dating sites (other than Craigslist casual encounters, I suppose) are just us saying things to each other about what we want so naturally there’s this disconnect between men and women. Men are generally honest (ahhhh… such simple minds) and women are rarely honest or at best hopelessly conflicted (he’s gotta be super hot, a badboy, who isn’t afraid to cry), from my limited exposure to the help wanted… er, dating sites.
I like this Gone with The Wind how there is one man who prefers the saint woman while the beast whore spends her life trying to seduce him and only at the end does she see she was made to ride on the back of The Great Babylon beast and do her business with the beast man while the saints pray: Father please protect poor poor blind Babylon so they work out their problems and protect them from rivers of blood knowing their weaknesses before the appointed day but not as I will be as you will O lord.
Gone With The Wind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRw74LcPolQ
God have mercy!
You must be pretty popular on the dating sites, waxwing01.
Shades of Grey is popular because women are absolutely desperate for dominant men.
Through feminism and chivalry, women have nearly extinguished the one thing in men they absolutely crave.
They should at least be honest about what they want.
Something not too many people know about Fifty Shades of Grey: it was originally written as a Twilight fanfic. I Am Not Making This Up™.
Explains a lot, doesn’t it?
Reposting since including a link seems to have eaten my previous comment.
Something not too many people know about Fifty Shades of Grey: it was originally written as a Twilight fanfic. Yes, really: I Am Not Making This Up™. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey#Origin_as_fan_fiction for details.
Explains a lot, doesn’t it?
Wow, talk about generalizations. I would never, ever date a liberal man that thinks I am so inept at providing for myself that I must rely on the taxpayers/government to pay for my birth control. Or any other damn thing, for that matter. Liberal men are all about *fairness*. Even if their wife is an MD, they will agree that at some point, “they’ve made enough money”. To hell with that. I, and I alone will decide when I have made enough money. And so will my daughter, and don’t be surprised if she is someday your boss.
Funny, I’m not about to so much as pick up “Fifty Shades…” but I have read other reviews and it ends with the naive, submissive heroine actually domesticating Mr. Gray, conquering his demons(he’s just a hurt little boy under the surface), and turning him into the perfect husband and father.
In other words, after all the floggings and bondage she “changes” him.
Standard bad-boy rescue fantasy, in other words.
Yes and they have been that way for 20 years. I checked out one of those sites twenty years ago and after meeting some of the women who used the site I decided to take a pass on it. I’m married now, and I did it the old fashioned ay. I met her thru work. Also I agree with Zorro on his take.
Convenience, the modernity/impersonality and checklist-o’-rama of it… guess it just appeals to left/liberal and/or RINO women culture/feel/etc. because they can say in writing attached to their name that they want a nice, sensitive and caring guy (which they believe or feel they do) then hookup/date with tall, dark and scowling guys who actually appeal to them.
Simple answer to the question. Liberal men are easier to manipulate.
I’ve never used a dating website, so I really know nothing about them. My basic rule is unless someone I know introduces her to me, I won’t go out with her. The few times I’ve broken this rule all ended in disaster.
It’s like when you’re at a nightclub and some girl you’ve never met comes up and asks you to buy her a drink. My response would be, long day at the unemployment line?
People always ask, what do woment want? I tell you exactly what she wants.
She wants to be happy. She needs to be safe. She has to be free.
If you can work that triumverate, you can have any girl you want.
I suppose the dating websites, like Christian Singles and what not, are for people who are looking for long-term relationships or wanting to get married.
WRONG. Most of them are just like the classified in the newspaper. They’re for swingers looking to hook up. Don’t kid yourselves.
Politics has nothing to do with it. The sacrament is pure, but the contract is as corrupt as the legal system. Any man who would agree to the marriage contract in this day and age is a fool.
These websites are for people looking to get laid. Please. They’re all fake. People lie on them all the time. Besides, if you want to get laid, just go to your local nightclub and buy the first girl who smiles at you a tequila shot.
It may be that they believe the propaganda about conservative men believing women should be barefoot and pregnant. This is B.S of course,but liberal women eat up B.S. for breakfast,lunch,and dinner. This may explain why liberal women really like conservative men when they actually get to know one. They find out these men are nothing like the oppressive bastards they were told they were by the mainstream media or women’s studies.
Curious. When you write “This may explain why liberal women really like conservative men when they get to know them,” I’m wondering what the pronoun “this” is referring to… because the immediate referent would be “liberal women eat[ing] B.S. for breakfast,lunch,and dinner.” So it appears that you’re suggesting it’s a predilection on the part of conservative men for coprophiliac spoon-feeding that turns on liberal women. Which may, in the end, say more about the fetishes and core values of conservative men than it does about the interests of liberal women.
I am saying that there is a lot of stereotyping of conservative men that is not true or fair.
Personally,I am not conservative in my political views,but I do not like any demographic being mischaracterized.
Most of those women aren’t looking for a long term relationship. They’re looking to hook up and have “fun” while they run out their most fertile and most attractive years.
From my observations, #1, 4, 6, and 7 are all correct.
Not sure what you or any other particular person can do about it, though. They’ve become who they are.
Liberal men are much more likely to be wealthy than right-wingers because liberals have connections. The wealthiest men in America are liberals like Buffet and Gates.
Wealth comes from how well you get along and who you know. Also right wingers don’t use condoms or allow women to take the pill.
Right wingers are obsessed by their guns and bibles and they are against successful women.
-Wealth comes from how well you get along and who you know. -
Just like in good old Balkans , or any other corrupt part of the world.
Thank you for this . Now I am really depressed .
As a conservative woman who will be divorced mid-summer, I find this good news. Maybe I’ll meet somebody!
However, since my husband (not yet ex) has been on these sites touting his conservatism and high Christian standards (and lying about his age) FOR YEARS, I’m not too hopeful.
Dr. Helen, you put up a lot of stuff that runs anti-woman. It’s pretty tough out here for lots of us. Be kind.
This is one of the few places where the stuff does not run anti-man.
No, she doesn’t. She just doesn’t put up stuff that runs anti-man.
I will try to view it through that lens and see if I can make that work.
Smiling, remember that narcissists always seek a disguise. Religion is one mask that they will use; there are others. Separate the wheat from the chaff.
Cousin Dave, you are very perceptive. Good advice and I will learn how. Eventually. Thank you.
I spent my early years in Africa. Despite the fact that I came back to the States in sixth grade, I never relished the idea of marrying an American girl. Ended up with an Asian girl, but would have been happy with a white or black African or Eastern European. Been married well over thirty years now. The more I see of American women, the more confirmed in my prejudices I become.
Congratulations on your long and happy marriage! Please be more specific about what characteristics you did not find attractive about “American” girls. It might be useful information for all of us to know what it was you found unappealing. Thanks.
I’ve tried Plenty of Fish and ChristianMingle, and PoF seems to skew kind of 50/50 conservative/lib for me, and conservatives seems to have a slight advantage here, so a possible liberal overrepresentation (note: I live in east TN). ChristianMingle for me is heavily conservative. Neither got me a relationship, though CM did help me make a really good friend.
Speaking from anecdote among the city-living singles I know, liberals are a lot more likely to make difference of political opinion a romantic and platonic relationship dealbreaker.
OKcupid naturally runs toward the swingers/hookups/casual sex crowd. The conservative women are more likely to be religious and therefore on different sites.
There are of course more libertarian, less socially conservative women who are not looking for casual sex but also not really looking to marry a youth pastor (believe me, we exist), but I guess they’re just not on dating sites.
Part of the problem is that there is a bias to who is on the site. People who are agreeable are people who get on the site, find someone, and get off the site. The people who are disagreeable and full of unrealistic expectations — or in fact can’t even articulate what they want — don’t find anyone, and the pile up on the site over time. Those are people like women who say, “I want a REAL man… but I don’t want a conservative.” They eventually find out that they are looking for a walking contradiction (just like how they fancy themselves.)
The eHarmony and Match.com anecdotes tend to support this, because pay sites will tend to discourage this behavior — the ones who are disagreeable will attrit much faster because they are having to pay for a site that “isn’t working.”
That’s why I tell people that if they really want to use a dating site to find a secure relationship, they need to use a pay site, and preferably one of the more expensive ones. Because the cost filters out people who aren’t serious or have unrealistic expectations.
Cost also tends to filter out the spammers. The guys I’ve known who used POF (successfully at least) all just said that it was about numbers and spam. They’d just look for every woman in their area who they find even remotely attractive and spam message them, wouldn’t even bother to read the profile most of the time. They’d send out a couple hundred cut-and paste messages and receive a few replies, then work from there. The net result is bad for everyone, women get so many spam messages that they’re overwhelmed and likely to find a guy who’s just saying whatever he can to hook up with anyone he can, and the men who try to message a smaller number of girls they’re actually interested in get lost in the noise. The spammers all basically said it’s free, so they have nothing to lose by sending out thousands of bland messages for the occasional response. I’m sure a pay site would filter a lot of that sort of thing out.
John Lott nailed it with his analysis of the rise of progressivism in the US: single women (ie, women without men) ARE socialists/fascists, seeking a daddy substitutein the collective state.
This manifested itself as women first got the vote and kept FDR elected and re-elected in the 1930s. But first it moved state level politics towards statism in the states that gave women the vote before the franchising 19th Amendment in 1920.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_US_Suffrage,_1920.svg
Thus, all but religious right-wing activist groups are “sausage fests.” Always.
The only non-right wing women I’ve dated happily have been moderates or politically unsophisticated. Even a Marxist I once dated in college rejected me BECAUSE I was not a Marxist like her.
Maybe the ‘woman seeking liberal man’ means ‘woman seeking the classical liberal virtues’. That would make sense.
Open mind. Curious. Fairness. Wicked humour.
I mean, is there a selection box for ‘sour , gray anti freedom leftist’?
You asked “Do most women want liberal men?” I think that’s backwards. I think most men that want a serious relationship want conservative women. Men who want a serious relationship want a partner, someone who grasps the ideas of individual accountability, shared responsibility, a work ethic, and genuine caring, rather than government sponsored charity. A good marriage is only as good as the partnership upon which it is based. The websites are awash with liberal women, because real men don’t want them, and liberal men don’t want serious relationships. Liberal women are opposed to strong men, opposed to traditional families, and opposed to societal norms, and then are surprised when strong men, frequently wanting to raise a traditional family and wanting to have a committed, supportive, long-term relationship, aren’t interested in liberal women.
“A good marriage is only as good as the partnership upon which it is based.”
Well said.
To expand on your last sentence, from my observations, liberal women after 30 will either compromise their principles or get used to cats. When the family and I are out and about, I notice the stares my wife gets from some women about her age (39) and from the facial expressions it is between scorn and envy.
So now “liberal” means “submissive” and “conservative” means “dominant?”
What a passel of nonsense. I’m a Polyani and Veblen-readin’, libertarian-refutin’ flat out LEFTIST and I spank my wife when she’s disobedient. It’s called wearing the pants and has nothing to do with your views on political economy.
As to the OP….women have no problem dating conservative men. What they dislike are “conservative” men– guys who are constantly whining about how victimized they are as white men. Whiners-no one likes them.
Probably why nobody likes the Sandra Fluke type leftist women whining about how “victimized” they are if they have to pay for their own birth control, or how “victimized” they are if someone calls them a slut for sleeping with dozens of random men. Or the idiot leftists who complain about how “oppressed” women are in the US but for some reason love the “cultural diversity” of the Muslims who treat their women worse than slaves. The politics of modern leftism is all about “victimization” and balkanizing people into special “victimized groups” and constantly inflaming historical or imaginary grievances. A lot of leftist women I’ve known love to play the victim and demand special treatment and regard victimization as some sort of sainthood. If you want to avoid people whining about their victimization, avoid leftist women. Most conservative men don’t play the victim or whine about being oppressed, we just don’t accept the bullsh*t leftist narrative that we’re somehow responsible for all the ills of the world.
Your remarks are cogent, TPM. Long story short—no-one likes whiners. We part ways on the whininess of conservative males, though. It’s a self-selecting sample online. The strong silent types are out there being strong and silent, not whining to online forums about how those damn liberal bitches won’t date meeeee.
Online discourse is crowded by a special sub-breed of male, whom we all recognize: the peevish, put-upon, “nice guy” libertarian/conservative virgin or near-virgin with his angry blue balls and frustrated sense of entitlement.
Well, at least you’ve followed “temet nosce”.
Women are slaves to Pop Culture and Pop Culture has deemed Liberals as cool and Conservatives as uncool, which is the modern replacement for unclean. They have no idea what Conservatives are like or even what they believe. Their image of a Conservative man is the hillbilly moonshiners in Deliverance.
It really is just one more indicator of how completely we have lost the propaganda war.
“…which is the modern replacement for unclean. ”
I had not thought about it that way, but you’re right.
Most single women do seem to be liberal minded. The 2012 presidential election demographics give evidence to that. Compare the political preferences of single women voters to single men voters in the chart given in the link below:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2229225/Presidential-election-2012-Record-number-Hispanic-voters-head-polls.html
I have done more than my fair share of online dating and my anecdotal evidence supports that most single women lean liberal as well; however, that doesn’t stop me from dating them from time to time if they are sufficiently attractive and nothing stands out in their profile to make me think that they would be a pain in the arse. I like to test how deep their “liberalness” goes on a date without necessarily talking about politics. I will do this because in my experience many people who label themselves politically aren’t that deeply political and just adopt the consensus view amongst their peers.
I would dump OKCupid if I was the questioner and go with a pay site like Match.
Even in California I find many “middle of the road” and “some other viewpoint” as political preferences in the profiles I read on Match. These are mostly the women I date.
I would suggest that the questioner change his profile political preference to “some other viewpoint” on his profile or just leave it blank (and change venues). The reason being is many “middle of the road” or “some other viewpoint” women may preconcieve after reading your profile that politics will dominate your life (and first date)and not find that a good fit. It is likely they have already encountered such a man who pressed some serious conversation such as politics on the first date instead of giving her a fun evening.
The conservative women are, by and large, already married/taken. Raised in and acculturated to the rigid, paternalistic mode of relationships, they are living out the right-wing expectations by getting married as soon as they have filled their father’s expectations for education after leaving the nest. This leaves pretty much only liberal women available for dating.
Well, at least, the culturally liberal ones (mostly political liberals, too) seem to be riding the “c*ck carousel” (pardon the crudity) to find themselves and then find a mate or (as marriage is a “relationship” that must remain ever fulfilling, not a commitment) another one so that’s who’ll you tend find online, you’re right.
No. It’s one more reason why democracy does not work.
The quicker we move to sortition the better.
The funny thing is they also say they want masculine men, yet I would presume there’s a pretty strong negative association between masculinity and liberalism/leftism in (white) men.
Also not sure if you saw this but…
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/eliminating-feminist-teacher-bias-erases-boys-falling-grades-study-finds
Thanks, good article.
I’ve always said we should have same-sex ed, and I mean in a boys’ school there are ZERO females. No women teachers, admin or even nurses. 100% estrogen-free zone. No guys at girls’ schools, either. If women can serve in combat, then they can have female security guards if they want them.
This is not the first study to show that feminism and female-biased teaching methods are toxic to boys. The LSE got similar findings in their studies. The cracks are forming and within a decade nobody will be able to hide the truth that feminism has ruined far more of this country than it ever helped.
Oh, and can we please ditch Title IX, too?
I wonder how conservative (men) are portrayed in women’s media? Just maybe, that has something to do with it?
Which woman want to date a man who is uptight, uncool, cold-hearted, tight-fisted, greedy, gun nutty, serial killing rapist (but in the totally uncool hillbilly way or else the murdering rapist would be quite popular)?
Uh, because conservative women are more inclined to get married, so they’re less likely to be on dating web sites by the time they’re 40?
Anyway, I don’t think the point of departure is really that true. Women self-report as “liberal” but often it just means that in their circle anyone who is conservative (and many people live according to conservative values while self-describing themselves as “liberal”) is anti-abortion, and they are socially ostracized if they admit to being anti-abortion (and/or they are hypocrites, as they have utilized an abortion as a form of birth control).
I’ve never met a successful (i.e., alpha) female, liberal or conservative or apolitical or libertarian, who wasn’t sick of always being in charge and having a bunch of soft and easy men to push around. They really want an alpha male — a guy who has confidence without being arrogant, a guy with a handshake and a career and a bit of money, a guy who will drive the car. Most alpha females do very well at work and given a bit of respect and romance would love to have a man around of any political stripe who will just take the lead from time to time. They’re sick of being in charge 24×7.
The obsessive match.commers never stop shopping for a man, and those are the ones to watch out for — the hypergamy freaks — the “I can do better” cohort — not the “liberals”. In fact, I have found most “liberal” women to be somewhat fascinated and turned on by my strong libertarian outlook, since, as I point out, I’m more liberal than they on most any issue of substance, and more “choice” committed than they on any subject save one. Of course they all “hate guns” — and the fact that I am interested in and actually prepared to perform self-defense seems to be a major source of fascination and maybe a turn-on.
Alpha females want to be with rule-breakers, and the PC liberal men are precisely the opposite of what they are really seeking. There are no romance novels starring PC liberal “nice guys”, Hannah Rosin and Naomi Klein’s theorizing notwithstanding.
Women pattern themselves after the youngest of their kind – seventeen year olds, which means liberal ideology.
Men pattern themselves after men they admire – so either conservatives, or athletes.
There’s a chance that they (the women) are saying what they think we want to hear. And if by “not-conservative” they mean “libertine”, they may be correct for the pond in which they’re fishing.
Also, I think I read in Glenn’s blog just the other day that there are many so-called woman’s magazines that are really just propaganda vehicles for the left. Cosmo comes to mind, but I suspect most all the ones you see on the supermarket shelves are serving that purpose. Since most (the Cosmos, the Vogues, “Self”) are read by teenage girls, I wouldn’t be surprised if those mags bias their world-view that way.
Anyone who listens to what woman “claim” they want in a man will be doomed to be alone for a long time. Listen to your guy friends regarding how to get woman. Don’t listen to your woman friends.
As my wife once said:
Liberal men are interested in sex.
Conservative men are interested in sex.
Conservative women are interested in marriage.
A man who is willing to marry for sex just needs to hunt where the ducks are, in church (or synagogue or wherever your sect meets). Yes, the “player” can use these spots to cruise for casual sex too…
I am not now nor have ever used a dating site. I am married,old and out of the market. I hope that makes my observations below minimally biased.
TV ads claim the one out of 5 relationships begin online. I find that hard to believe, but if true…
I have noticed the ‘Specialized’ sites, J-date and Christian Mingle for example, being advertised, thus allowing (pretending) that persons can pre-select the target population. Now, if I were a bright young conservative…. wouldn’t ConservDate or Anne’sHouse or some such other dating site be appropriate? Screening questions could then be tailored to fit the meme.
Just asking.
Personally, Id never date a woman I met at work unless she’s like a custodian, and doesn’t want a career, because she won’t be working anymore, frankly, it’s not healthy for a woman to be in a workplace.
Second Id never never date a conservative woman, they won’t do any of the fun sex stuff. I also want her to follow my directives, women have never been good logical thinkers.
I’m a conservative woman and I find the tone of these comments bitter and unappealing. No wonder some folks can’t get dates. Women are different from men but are not a hostile, alien species. Maybe start looking at your dates as people.
More than a few of the men who comment on Dr. Helen’s site are divorced and bitter. While we only read their side of the story, these men are entitled to their opinions based on their own experiences. It’s quite easy to find websites where women bash men constantly. This is just the flip-side.
I have found that there are some very nice men, who turn out to be exactly who they say they are, on these websites.
And I, for one, have spilled my guts about who I am, so that the men who read (if they get past the pictures) know about ME.
I also know of a lot of women liars on the websites, lying about their age, their background, etc.
Just like in the bars, you meet a lot of slime, you can meet a nice guy/girl too.
You just have to be cautious and attentive.
I have never used a free site, because, to me, that is one way I weed out the lowest of the parasites…
I think what women really want is to be accepted for who they are. (What REAL women want… I have told countless friends that they can NOT lie on these websites and expect to complain later that they aren’t getting the love of their life!)
For instance, I actually have written in plain english on my profile that I am conservative financially, conservative personal values, but that I appreciate all races and religions. The comment above that all Ultra-republicans are viewed as bigots, then at least those particular bigots would know not to send me a message… And I have never been hurt one bit by someone not sending me an introductory message…
It is a tought world of dating out there, without a doubt…
I have zero difficulty getting dates. I have a great deal of difficulty getting dates in which I am not a marriage target (pay for me and take care of me), an ATM machine (pay for me and I’ll go out with you), or a texting buddy while the subject female scams other guys on Match (“take me out and pay for me, darling, if I can’t do better by Thursday; by the way, did I tell you I am a feminist?”).
Meanwhile, anyone who points out the gross misandry of modern women is labeled “divorced and bitter” by beta males like Larry J. Well, fine. When a woman calls me up and asks me out and drives to my town and picks me up and buys me dinner and implores me for a second date — which I have done, in the converse, hundreds of times — he might have a point.
The real issue here is simply the extraordinary hypocrisy of educated, liberal, putatively feminist women. One moment they’re Cinderella, the next Madeleine Albright. It depends on which is cheaper, and which offers greater moral sway. No man can figure out if he’s dealing with Cinderella or the bureaucrat from hell.
My approach is to find women who’ve been married for 15-20 years, because they enjoyed, for at least some of the time, the experience of partnership, and they don’t act like 15 year-olds with the ‘feed me, carry me, read my mind, you’re not good enough’ hysteria. Even if they’re not a lifelong mate, they are capable of friendship, which is supposed to be the point, yes?
And, Larry J: point me to a website that tells the story of men who always wanted to be married but just couldn’t find a woman ‘good enough’ for them. (e.g., The Atlantic.) Show me a body of lit that discusses how single men “refuse to settle.” Men are on a marriage strike because they know that if they do marry, and the woman decides she is a Stepford and “can do better!” they’ll lose 2/3 of their net worth, lose access to their children, and spend their evenings and weekends compensating for the ex’s manipulations (if they do wish to see their children). That’s not bitterness. That’s how the world works today. Men didn’t create that world. It’s fine with me if liberal, educated women wish to create a matriarchy, but it will be one in which their intimate experiences require AA batteries.
Bellance (the name of a great airplane company), spare me the beta male bullcrap. You don’t know a damned thing about me. We’ve never met and for that I’m grateful. You sound like a rather hateful and ignorant person.
All I did was point out that men are entitled to their opinions even if some women don’t happen to like those opinions. As for noting how more than a few of the men who post here are divorced and bitter, that’s what they themselves have written. We only hear their side of the story. There’s a reasonable chance that some of those men are less than angels themselves. Still, they’re still entitled to their opinion. I’ve been reading Dr. Helen’s articles for a long time and have posted comments on them. I find the articles and comments both interesting and educational. I know that should I survive my wife, there’s no way I’d ever risk getting married again. When we married 30 years ago, we had nothing. In all those years of working together, we built a pretty good life for ourselves. To marry again would be putting all that my wife and I achieved together at risk.
Misandry is a serious issue and I worry about the future for my three young grandsons (4, 6 & 8). I also worry for my 8 year old granddaughter’s future as well.
“Maybe start looking at your dates as people.”
Why? What we are confronted by is a lot of women demanding to be trusted (i.e. be treated like people), a lot of politicians making sure that women are well protected and well paid when they lie and an electorate that is over 50% female (54%, as I recall). Like it or not, women don’t have a lot of credibility. Get used to it.
Larry J,
I don’t think men here constantly bash women, though they do have opinions on how they feel about the experiences they have had with some women. There are few places, as you note, for men to go to express their views. The culture, media and apparently, women on this site, get upset if they see men who don’t hold the narrative that women are superior beings who are not to be criticized. I think some readers just find it odd that any male is allowed to express himself freely. In some ways, men have much less freedom than women in our society and this blog is here to provide an outlet for those men who want to discuss freely their feelings and thoughts about society, relationships and the culture. It’s too bad that there are so few places for men to do so.
It’s too bad that there are so few places for men to do so.
Right. There are only so many words that fit on the internet.
Point?
Dr. Helen, as I posted in response to Bellanca, I’ve read, enjoyed and commented on your articles for a long time (several years). Both the articles and comments are interesting and informative. More than a few of the commenters have mentioned their divorce, with the loss of their kids and payment of alimony and child support. I didn’t say all of the men were divorced, just “more than a few.” There are others who rightfully complain about misandry. As I mentioned above, they’re entitled to their opinions even (especially) if some women don’t like what they have to say.
I personally thank you for posting these articles and asking for consideration of a man’s perspective. There aren’t that many women authors who do that. The fact that your only child is a teenaged daughter makes it all the more remarkable to me. Just as you surely worry about your daughter’s future, I worry about my grandchildren’s futures (3 boys and a girl). I don’t like the trends I see in society and fear America’s best years are behind us.
Thanks Larry J. I always enjoy your comments here and appreciate your feedback!
I think that when liberal women think about conservative men, they think about men who are obsessed with “submission,” and that is scary. Men bent on finding submissive women seem (to liberal woman) as someone mentioned, one step away from being abusive.
Men’s whole deal with submission is not “get back in the kitchen and make me some pie” to the women, but submission (yes, dear) to the wife, as an effective condition of marriage, who’ll leave him for someone else (taking the house, the kids and half his income today) because he wasn’t “dominant” enough to keep her excited. That’s the male obsession (or neurousis) today… do we have to be “Serve your master, wench!” to even compete, when we don’t like that, today?
I’m a non-religious conservative single woman who has dated both conservatives and liberals. There seems to be lots of bitter men on this site, and Helen Smith, I’m not of the ‘women are superior beings’ mindset at all. I love men and respect them. I’m an intelligent, loving, beautiful woman who is working hard and raising two strong conservative kids. I get that there are angry men who have been screwed by the system and by selfish, narcissistic women. I’m not one of them and my ex husband would testify to that, not that it matters.
I wouldn’t go on Match.com or any other dating sight at this point. I just don’t have the energy to devote to weeding through the guys on those sights, so I’ll wait to meet someone in person.
JMarie, I imagine your comment is directed at me, and others; apologies if not.
All you’re really saying is that men who report the actuality of popular male-female mores (and the divorce industry, as it applies to men) should be disregarded as irrational (“bitter”). That’s fine, but once the full power and reach of the state starts removing children from their mothers’ lives, once the state starts removing 2/3 of a woman’s balance sheet because her husband ended the marriage, and once single women start encountering men who blithely wait for women to pay their way (in dating and in marriage), then perhaps you will have a different point of view.
In the meantime, I would suggest that you confront the factual assertions of men, rather than devolving to a stupid ad hominem. In my experience, once a conversant deploys an ad hominem, she is admitting that she cannot address the issues on the merits.
The fact is that there is a society-wide marriage strike; it exists with blue collar guys in their 20′s (cf. Charles Murray), because they know that they’ll never survive one divorce. It exists with white collar guys like me, who bought into ERA-America, only to see the divorce industry strip mine them once a former spouse got the 20-year itch. You can write off Y-chromosome America as “bitter”, but it would be more impressive if you were to address some of the facts of the situation. The men I know (blue- and white-collar) think the idea of subjecting themselves to the divorce industry a second time to be ludicrous, not embittering. And if you don’t think the agenda of the popular feminist community isn’t a matriarchy, you haven’t attempted to get a male child through K-12 yet.
Actually, Bellanca, I wasn’t referring to you or any response in this particular thread. I was referring to other interactions I’ve had on other threads where I was insulted personally simply because I responded to a post. Apology accepted.
I never said men (bitter or otherwise) should be disregarded. I said I love and respect men. I agree that the divorce industry is anti-male. And yes, I have male children in high school and they’re conservatives who routinely debate the liberal ideology of their teachers (and win).
I also never said anything about marriage. I was responding about the subject of dating. And yes, I have paid for dinners, cooked dinners and driven on dates. Since I don’t drink, I’m the perfect designated driver.
Next time, please just respond to what I’ve written. I’m not your ex wife.
I’m a straight libertarian male, and I’m pretty much retired from the dating scene for two big reasons (1) I hate dating; and (2) The Gender Gap. I want a life partner who shares my deepest values: individualism, reason, and a devotion to liberty. From my experience, the vast majority of women I encounter are “liberals” (i.e., tax-happy, coercion-addicted State-fellators). Maybe it’s a matter of geography. I’ve lived only in the Northeast and Southeast (currently Atlanta) and perhaps the situation is different in the western states, outside the Left Coast.
Atlanta these days is not very representative of the Southeast in general.
I came across Dr. Helen’s blog a few months ago and I agreed with many of the things that she said concerning relationships between men and women. As a Liberal I was very disappointed when I discovered that she is a Conservative as are most of her followers. I have found that most women on dating sites describe themselves as conservative though many of those women don’t seem to understand what conservative usually means. I think that many of them just think that it sounds better.
Conservative doesn’t mean that a person has higher morals and values than Liberals, nor that a person would be a better wife or husband. All Liberals don’t have the same values and morals, nor do all Conservatives. If you want to find a Conservative woman, you will find a majority of them in smaller cities and towns.
But, what truly defines a person as conservative or liberal? I consider myself to be to the left of the Democratic Party on taxes,social programs, civil-rights including gay marriage and believe that the Government is less evil than Corporations and most Americans in general. Yet I’m pro-life, own more than one gun, a Christian and have traditional family values.
To me, women are most often the cause of divorce and the downfall of relationships. Most want to be told what they want to hear, not what they need to hear, they form co-dependent relationships with their children, becoming the child’s friend, instead of being a parent. On many of the dating profiles that I have read, most single mothers usually say ” I love my kids and they will always come first!” as I believe that children should come first, but what she really means is that her love and her loyalty is to her children, even when they misbehave, are disrespectful to her or you and ever a threat to the entire family.
A man is expected to support her and the children financially, emotionally, do all the activities that she and the kids desire to, and as a woman stated in an earlier post, she wanted a man “to accept her for who she is”, but the same woman would try to change her man into the man she thinks that he should be. Not that men are innocent, most of my male friends are creeps now, but I remember when those guys were good men. I remember when the woman that they loved, humiliated them and betrayed them. Dr. Helen as much as I hate to say this, as a Liberal, When it comes to women, I agree with most of what you say. Someone should be hard on women. Men should stop being afraid to say what they want to say, the they want to say it and when they want to say it. Women never hesitate to speak their mind on any subject and could care less about your feelings because you are a man.. you don’t have feelings and as a man you aren’t allowed to start crying when you want them to stop saying something that you don’t want to hear.
Thanks for your comment. Men’s issues actually go across the spectrum, that is, conservatives tend to be white knights who try to approach women in a chivalrous manner and liberals tend to promote women to privileged status and see men as an oppressor to be kept in line. I think it’s imperative for liberals and conservatives to be concerned with how men are treated in our society, as injustice towards men will have societal ramifications that will negatively affect us all as well as individual men and women. BTW, I am actually a libertarian, though people call me conservative. If you dismiss all of those who you think you disagree with politically, you might miss out on some enlightening material. Thanks again for reading.
For some men, politics is a dealbreaker. I just broke off a 15 1/2 year relationship because in the last several years her politics swung far to the left. She said things to me that, had she said them on our first date, there wouldn’t have been a second. I waited patiently for light to dawn, but she never returned to her older mild-libertarian stance.
I was born in 1951 and detested “the kids” who rampaged on the campuses in the late ’60′s and who are now dominant in the media, government, academia, the arts, and the great foundations. It was miserable being in a “prestige” college where they were dominant.
Despite my girlfriend’s superiority in many other ways, her leftism not something I could overlook. I’ve been part Old Right and part libertarian since I was in my teens, I have spent much time examining my political philosophy, and I made that very clear when we started dating. Now, each of us is working to build a world that is anathema to the other. We could not have stayed together.
What drove her to change her politics? Did she have a big philosophical re-examining moment, or was it just a jumping-on-the-bandwagon thing?
It was a gradual shift, and entirely emotion-driven. It’s as if she got transfusions from the Huffington Post. She used to be somewhat libertarian. Her bitterness over the decline of her once-high-earning career was part of the change. Her constant association as a part time guitarist with other rock musicians, who always seem to be leftists, only made it worse. It’s too bad, she’s a superior woman in many ways. She’ll see through B.O. and his cronies – eventually.
I see that I have been living wrong. In what state could I receive 2/3 of our assets? (And yes, the assets are OURS because I was the sole breadwinner for many years and helped grow the business he now controls.) I thought men were people and didn’t realize I could get the ATM, take-me-to-dinner version. I have been wrong, wrong, wrong and look forward to using my middle-aged cunning and road-worn “beauty” to entrap some poor devil, only to strip him of his happiness, bank account and even flush his Viagra down the drain. I see good times ahead.
You can get that in just about any state, if you’re willing to be sufficiently vicious in the divorce process. Very first thing you do, as soon as papers are served, is file charges of abuse and child molestation against him, and get a protection order. The police come and haul him out of the house with nothing but the clothes on his back. Second thing you do is, when you first go to court, plead indigent so that he has to pay for your lawyer in addition to his, plus he has to keep up the house and car payments. And he has to do all this without access to any of your assets.
His lawyer will advise him to settle for pretty much whatever you want, and he will be so busy fighting to keep himself off the sex offender list that he won’t have time to dispute with you. Plus, he will probably lose his job as soon as his employer finds out about the molestation charges. You file for sole custody and support; on average, in about 85% of cases nationwide, you will get it. Then, if he still has a job, you can have his pay garnished. Make sure that the court knows about that transfer he didn’t take last year, the one that would have gotten him a raise, so they can impute the higher income.
Plus, as a single mother, you can now file “head of household” on your income taxes and receive preferential tax treatment. And you are also eligible for a menu of free social services, depending on what state you live in. And you don’t ever have to let him see the kids at all if you don’t want to; there may be a visitation order in place, but there is no penalty for violating it, so don’t worry about it. You can tell your children whatever vicious lies about their father that you want, and make them hate him. Parental alienation is a great way to teach your ex a lesson. And if you want to get a job of your own, you’re a triple-dip winner in the affirmative action sweepstakes. Companies can’t refuse to hire you because you’re a poor single mom, and they have to allow you to set whatever hours you want, because, y’know, you’ve got the children to think about.
Now, Smiling, you don’t sound like the kind of woman who would actually do any of this. Good on you, and I’m not saying that to be sarcastic. However, the point is, if you were that kind of woman, the law would not only permit you to tear the marriage down, but it would hand you the sledgehammer too.
Cousin Dave, I’m sufficiently vicious but insufficiently smart. My lawyer said she’d never been involved in a divorce where one person (that would be my soon-to-be ex) was so ruthless in his/her efforts to hurt the other person (that would be vicious me, and no, I was not unfaithful ). I’m not sure i buy into the 2/3rds scenario, since I can’t seem to get my half, but I’ll be free to have a really good life (that would be any life sans war) after litigation in June. In divorce, everybody loses. But as it says in Proverbs, it’s better to live on a quiet rooftop than in a house with a quarrelsome spouse. Cousin Dave, I hope you aren’t speaking from experience.
Not all women on these sites want liberal guys, but I guess that goes without saying… no population is homogeneous. I’m a woman on OKC who was looking for and found a conservative man (we’re both supporters of gay marriage, but other than that, we’re conservative). I didn’t message him at first because I figured he was out of my league, but he messaged me and we’ve been dating happily for a while now.
That probably doesn’t help much – maybe I was the only conservative woman on the whole site – but there are probably at least a few others.
(As for why I don’t want a liberal man, it just comes down to a few things, I guess… in my experience, and I’ve dated men of a number of different political persuasions, liberal guys are more likely to be intolerant of Christian religious beliefs and they’re more likely to practice unsafe sex. Again, just in my experience – I’m certain that’s not all of them, or possibly even most. But those two things are dealbreakers. Conservative guys can also come with some dealbreakers, but it’s more likely that I’ll find someone I can trust as a partner in a conservative man.)
Way back in the ’70s Billy Joel had a song called Angry Young Man regarding the radical leftists of the time who he described as “boring as hell”.
And he was right.
Don’t be an angry young man, regardless of your political perspective, and don’t be an angry old man.
Or you will be boring and nobody will want to be around you.
Of course if you are “on strike” feel free to disregard but what are you doing on a dating site?
OK, I’m maybe getting a little off-topic, but this was too good not to share:
Note that on eHarmony, “Somewhat Conservative” is the most conservative you can self identify as, and I put political compatibility as highly important. It would seem to be ignored by the matching algorithm. Yesterday I got matched with this gem talking about a book she’d recently read:
“Atlas Shrugged – Its essentially about an alternate basis for morality, where industrial productivity and making money are most valued.”
Think about how complete the indoctrination must be for someone to read 900 pages of Rand and have THAT be what she takes away from it…yikes!
After reading the fable of the ant and the grasshopper, I can only assume she took it as proof that we need coercive redistribution so the grasshopper can have a 47″ flat panel and plenty of booze and cigarettes…[/sarc]
Somewhat conservative is as good as it gets, I guess! I’ve never been on eHarmony; their ads always struck me as creepy because all the couples look like siblings.
At Christian dating sites, there’s a general preference for conservativce men. That’s how I found my wife.
I didn’t waste my time anywhwere else. “Do not be unequally yoked”, etc..
In France where I live, people of my generation, be they guys or girls, claim and most often actually are liberal, no matter how educated they are. Not a single friend of mine shares my political views, but I would find some rest if at home I was understood instead of reading PJ Media to rest my mind.
When I ask a girl on a date, politics are not a subject I would bring on because we have other things to learn first. But if we are to talk about that, I usually start with having the girl agree that state over spending is a shame. I never discussed about the situation in Gaza, but my guess is that it will also be very painful. Hopefully, I usually date jewish beauties, therefore the risk is lower to see them cheer Hamas.
This is an issue meeting women and I will say that being a moderate when a woman stresses that she is a “liberal” I generally pass as I know that she is not interested in a moderate or conservative. I hold mixed views…… for instance I am pro choice but against any federal funding of abortion but I do not hold straight liberal views or straight conservative views. On the subject of abortion the sides are sharply divided, IMO both could compromise.
But it goes further than politics. Women are specific on height, hair color, body type and the kind of activities that they enjoy and want the man to enjoy. Men tend to be less picky. A woman who enjoys the ballet, wants to attend theater events, does yoga five times per week and is a vegetarian has narrowed the possibilities. Most of the time they do not want to “settle” as I read in many profiles. I kind of feel sorry for these women as they will probably wind up alone.
My thoughts? A relationship is between two people who can enjoy themselves on an intellectual level and physical level. You don’t have to agree on all things politics or social. I have friends whom I enjoy doing activities with but we do not agree politically; we simply never bring it up and do our own thing. Unfortunately, our society has turned to political issues in the past few years and overall our country is divided. However, companionship, love, etc. are fleeting as life is pretty short. Some of those 45+ people out there need to consider that and accept that all people are different, there are NO “ideal” and perfect matches. I was married to a woman who viewed the world exactly as I did, it didn’t work…….
Liberal is not bad and conservative is not bad. Faith is not bad and ‘spiritual but not religious’ is not bad. We talk about “tolerance” but in general I see little tolerance on either side on dating sites.