The Plot Thickens: Obama Asserts Executive Privilege to Block Fast & Furious Disclosures
The Obama administration has a narrative about Fast & Furious. The Wall Street Journal obligingly reported it this morning, as follows:
The gun-walking tactics in Fast and Furious turned up in earlier ATF cases, during the Bush administration. When they were uncovered by Justice officials in the Obama administration, a top Justice official raised concerns with ATF officials, according to Justice documents released last year. But the officials never alerted Mr. Holder, didn’t do enough to prevent similar cases and weren’t aware the operation was under way until months later, according to Justice documents.
Mr. Holder, in a letter last week to Mr. Issa, said, “The record in this matter reflects that until allegations about the inappropriate tactics used in Fast and Furious were made public, department leadership was unaware of those tactics.”
There are a variety of reasons to be skeptical of this version of events. To name only two:
(a) there were wiretaps in the F&F investigation, and when the government seeks a wiretap, federal law requires it to explain what investigative tactics have been used in the case, an explanation that is vetted by top DOJ officials because the government cannot apply for the wiretap without the approval of the attorney general or his designee (a high Justice Department official) — it seems highly unlikely, assuming DOJ complied with wiretap law, that top Justice Department officials did not know about the gun-walking tactic until late in the game; and
(b) the gun-walking tactic — which in F&F involved providing well over a thousand firearms to violent criminals — was shocking, and it is hard to believe that if “Justice officials” knew enough to raise their concerns with the ATF brass, they failed to alert Attorney General Holder or follow through to make sure ATF and the U.S. attorney’s office — both arms of the Justice Department — stopped the tactic.
But let’s put all that aside for argument’s sake and assume that the Obama administration’s narrative is true. If this is what really happened, Attorney General Holder does not deserve our condemnation; he deserves a commendation. And if this is really what happened, what are the chances that the administration that can’t shovel national defense secrets out fast enough to the New York Times would withhold a paper trail that covers Mr. Holder in glory?
The issue in F&F is not the withholding of DOJ documents. The issue is the reckless provision of an arsenal fit for an army to violent cartels, quite predictably resulting in the murders of possibly hundreds of people including at least one United States law enforcement officer. That is the reason Congress did not go away, as it usually does, when the Justice Department ignores or slow-walks demands for information. What happened here is too grave to take “no” for an answer.
If this were a Republican administration, the press would long ago have made the Department’s obstruction of Congress a five-alarm scandal. Bush administration Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was forced to resign over a matter that was less than frivolous compared to F&F. The press is in the tank for Obama, so Holder & Co. have relatively smooth sailing — even when it became clear that they provided blatantly false information to Congress about the use of the gun-walking tactic. Chairman Darrell Issa (R., CA) has been heroic in pursuing this investigation at a time when Republicans have been generally feckless in challenging Obama’s abuses of power.
But while Holder has been in the eye of what little storm there was, it has always been the case that F&F is Obama’s scandal. Holder has never done anything other than implement Obama’s policies and manage relations with Congress as Obama wished them to be conducted. Obviously, the hope was that if DOJ was intransigent enough, the House would get frustrated and bored and move on to other things. That hasn’t happened, thanks to Rep. Issa and his colleagues. But the focus on Holder and withheld documents should not obscure that F&F is really about Obama and the murders of a federal agent and hundreds of others — very likely, to promote the Left’s political argument that American Second Amendment rights are the cause of international violence.
Because Issa has been dogged, we have now gotten down to brass tacks. The prospect of the attorney general’s being held in contempt finally prompted the president — the only official in the government empowered to assert executive privilege — to claim that the documents sought are being withheld at his (Obama’s) direction, based on his constitutional authority.
Executive privilege is a vestige of Richard Nixon’s desperate effort to conceal criminality in the Watergate scandal. The last thing Obama wanted to do, with the November election looming, was resort to the Nixon strategy (which, we should recall, failed in the end). And, again, if the Obama administration’s story was true, they would want to release the documents that support it.
They really don’t want you to see what is in those documents.
Also read:
Goose, meet oven. You’re cooked.
On the upside, Obama has now voluntarily connected himself to the Fast & Furious scandal, and created the possibility for Issa’s side to cite United States vs. Nixon in a judicial setting.
Holder has failed at his personal Job #1; protect the Precedent.
There is a video on YouTube showing Eric Holder’s Asst Attorney General on C-SPAN in March 2009 CLEARLY stating “The President directed us” regarding “Project Gunrunner” and “gun tracing”.
And there ya go.
You can find it easily by going to YouTube and using keywords: Attorney General CSPAN March 2009
And then please send that link with a few words to Darrell Issa, John Boehner and SeanHannity@FoxNews.com like I did!
And here’s the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc
C-Span has it in their video archive: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/284798-4
Watch from 16:00 to 17:20.
What seems to not be reported by very many people at all is that Holder, etal. would like to blame Bush because of the same tactics being used during his administration. What Holder and his cohorts fail to report when doing this is that the operations in the Bush administration were done with the complete knowledge and approval of the Mexican government.
As a citizen I am so sick of this criminal government. It is past time to start arresting and jailing people in this administration, contempt citations,and impeachment proceedings be damned.
There are two important distinctions between F&F and the earlier Bish Administration program:
1. In the BUsh program, weapons were never intended to make it across the border.
2. When ATF officials learned that weapons had actually made it across the border the operation was immediately halted.
A third important distinction mentioned by Geniesmith above is that in the Bush operation, the Mexican government knew about it and worked with our government. In Fast and Furious, the Mexican government was never told a thing by our thug DOJ. They are all criminals, including Obama, and should be dealt with as such by Congress.
YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES.
I’m starting to get spammy around here on this point — sorry.
But that is going to be the most important argument in this reeking scandal. I say this as a diligent mud-wallower in lefty media. “Bush started it and Holder ended it” is what they’re saying. Not. So.
You really should not tell the Mexican government when your purpose is not to help with the cartels but to arm them. The object was not to track the weapons to the cartels but to track the discarded weapons to unscrupulous gun dealers hear in the US. They probably have some nice sound bites to that effect kicking around in those e-mails. Their agenda was not anti cartel but anti 2nd amendment.
Great point. Think that’s exactly what Obama is hiding–that all of this was done for political motives in attacking the Second Amendment.
Yes. And someone else pointed out that all of the contemporaneous assertions by Mexican and American officials about U.S. guns being the cause of drug wars suddenly stopped when Brian Terry was killed and F&F blew up.
And, those “unscrupulous gun dealers” here in the US? They were selling those guns at the direction of the local ATF office. The same one headed by the guy that was mouthing off about how “unscrupulous gun dealers” were selling firearms to the drug cartels.
I have no idea how that was supposed to fly, gun dealers tend to be paranoid about the ATF, and /record/, or at least, take notes, of any out of the ordinary contact. And being required to sell to someone who reeks of illegality certainly would be out of the ordinary.
Worse than that– even the ATF agents working in Mexico with Mexican agencies were not told about ‘F&F’ (or Operation Castaway, or the two operations out of Texas…)
The agency of our government that does arrests and jailings is – the justice department. Unless an independent prosecutor can be appointed, all Congress can do ultimately is impeachment, a slow and cumbersome process. The best we can hope for is that this will make it impossible for Obama to win the election and they will all be out of government, but I’ll bet no one goes to jail.
Please correct me if I am wrong, Andrew, but I believe that United States vs Nixon (1974) established that only the President’s communications are protected. If so, one can infer that:
1. Somewhere in that pile of documents DOJ is claiming executive privilege are documents to or from the President, meaning that President Obama was in fact aware of F&F.
2. Attorney General Holder lied under oath to Congress when he said that the President was unaware of F&F.
“The use of executive privilege decreased during the 1960s, but it became the crux of the constitutional crisis created by Watergate, a series of scandals involving President richard m. nixon and his associates. When Congress sought to obtain White House tapes containing Oval Office conversations, Nixon refused to turn them over, claiming that the tapes were subject to absolute executive privilege and asserting that the judiciary had no authority to order their production or inspection. Eventually the dispute reached the Supreme Court, where, in united states v. nixon, 418 U.S. 683, 94 S. Ct. 3090, 41L. Ed. 2d 1039 (1974), the Court ruled against Nixon. While acknowledging the importance of the president’s claims, the Court stated that “neither the doctrine of separation of powers, nor the need for confidentiality of high level communications, without more, can sustain an absolute, unqualified presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances.” In its opinion, therefore, the Court explicitly recognized the president’s authority to assert executive privilege but ruled that the use of executive privilege is limited, not absolute. Furthermore, the Court maintained that the judiciary, not the president, has the power to determine the applicability of executive privilege. While the Court affirmed the use of executive privilege, therefore, it determined that in this case, the right of the U.S. people to full disclosure outweighed the president’s right to secrecy. This momentous decision soon led to Nixon’s resignation from the office of president.”
From the legal dictionary – the free dictionary online.
An interesting conundrum. For executive privilege to apply, it must pertain to communications with executives (thus the name). However, according to DOJ sworn testimony to Congress, no executives were involved in any of the decisions. Thus, either DOJ officials have committed perjury, or the executive privilege claim is, in itself, based on a lie. I haven’t heard that inconvenient fact mentioned in any of the MSM commentary so far.
And – OweBlameA said he didn’t know about F&F – he heard in on TV for the first time. How can he assert executive privilege over memos and such that he never sa2w and didn’t discuss until after the poo hit the fan?
There is a huge coverup going on here and I think they are covering up discussions on how they were going to turn the guns-in-Mexico thing into an attack on guns. They tried it just before F&F was made public. Remember the bogus “90% of guns used in Mexican crimes can be traced to the US campaign?” This is all about a second amendment end-around.
The Bush era operation was Wide Reciever, and in it they actually put tracking devices in the weapons and coordinated with Mexican police. The goal was to catch gun smugglers.
The Obama era version, Fast and Furious, was similar to the Bush era version except that they did away with tracking the arms, coordinating with the Mexicans, and attempting to stop the guns at the border.
So while the operations were similar, the differences are nontheless significant.
“The issue is the reckless provision of an arsenal fit for an army to violent cartels, …”
No, you’re buying a piece of the Junta’s meme with this statement. The weapons at issue are not fit for an army and real Mexican “violent cartels” wouldn’t be caught dead with or waste money on expensive US legal gunstore guns. The gunstore guns were being planted in Mexico and probably bought with laundered US funds by US assets. The AK platform weapons modified to “sporting” use under US law and made into semi-automatic rather than automatic weapons cost anywhere from $500 to $1500 or even more in a US gunstore. You can buy true military AK platform fully automatic weapons in most of the World for as little as $100. In the case of Mexican drug cartels that buy heroin and cocaine by the ton, it is a simple matter to have their suppliers in SW Asia or South America throw in a few cases of AKs in the shipment.
Others have pointed this out: why would the cartels purchase weapons in the U.S. at all, whey they can buy them from Russian arms dealers by the container load? They can afford to throw away entire aircraft on a drug run, why risk anything over a few guns?
Contray to Art’s opinion, there are good reasons for buying non-military weapons. First and foremost is that M-16, AR-15 type weapons are more accurate then the Kalashnikov. That makes them more suitable for criminal purposes. The AK-47 is used as an area weapon, one that lays down suppression fire. That requires a LOT of ammo. Ammo that is usually more expensive then 5.56 rounds. Over the life of an automatic weapon, the cost of the ammo fired by that weapon is much greater then the cost of the weapon. That is the major reason the US Army went to the 5.56 round. That and weight. Ammo is shipped by the ton. A ton of 5.56 has many more rounds then a ton of 7.62 ammo.
The Soviets didn’t care about that. For an army of poorly trained conscripts what matters is how durable the weapon is and how fast it shoots. The Soviet approach to logistics was to try and do without it if possible. Soviet doctrine was to run an assault formation until it lost 1/3 of it’s combat power, then it was moved back to reserve and rebuilt. Another formation would replace it in the attack. The Soviet unit of fire ( how much ammo a formation used in a day) was larger then that of an American formation. IIRC, a unit of fire for an US Rifleman was 14 20 round magazines. A Soviet Rifleman carried 15 30 round magazines. I might be wrong on that, since I’m an old man working from a faulty memory.
Check Dunnigan’s “How to Make War”. The chapter on logistics gets into detail on the differences between Soviet style and NATO formations.
Any way, the AK-47 would be a disaster for American troops, the M-16 would be just as bad a weapon in Soviet (Russian) hands. For a criminal enterprise, I would prefer an AR-15, or better yet, one of the M-4 clones. Ammo is cheaper which means more practice. Plus in those situation where I needed one well aimed shot, I would have that capability. I would also have full auto for when things got desperate. Most of the civilian weapons can be converted to full auto for about 25$US and a few minutes work by a gunsmith.
There is also the innocent bystander consideration. 7.62 will penetrate enough to kill some poor soul standing behind your target. 5.56 has very little penetration.
Full disclosure. My favorite rifle is a M1A Standard. It is a civilian version of the M-14 firing a .308 (7.62NATO) round instead of the 30.06 of the M-14. It is much more accurate then I am. I don’t know if it will penetrate a vest but it will knock the wearer down.
Where to start correcting the misinformation in this post.
(1). The AK-47 is a select fire weapon and can be fired accurately in semiautomatic mode. You are describing its use by Soviet/Russian infantry not how it could be used by better trained troops or other users. If you are trying to shoot someone you don’t have to be able to put quarter sized groups on target. A foot diameter circle on center mass is good enough.
(2) Fear of collateral damage is not a concern of the cartels. They couldn’t care less if they over-penetrated their primary victim and got his brother as well. A 5.56 NATO round can easily go thru and thru, killing the person behind the target. What it can’t do is penetrate the stout masonry or brick walls.
(3) There is no doubt that the M-16/AR-15 is a more refined platform but if I were running a Mexican drug cartel I would choose the AK any day. Its less than refined nature makes it more robust and reliable in the environment that the cartels operate in. Mexican peasant cartel soldiers won’t take care of their weapons the way a US Marine would.
(4) The difference between an M-1A and an M-14 is not the cartridge. The WWII M-1 Garand used 30-06 Springfield cartridge. When the Army devleoped the M-14, which probably should have be classified as the M-1-A1, it switched to the NATO standard 7.62 (actually .308 Remington) cartridge. M-1A is merely the civilian designation of the M-14 without select fire capability. You never really could effectively fire an M-14 full auto. If the Army had selected the AR-10, which was the competitor, we would still be using 7.62 NATO.
Even improved and refined, the AR-15/M-4 still requires more finicky cleaning than the AK rifles. Also, note that the AK-74, which fires the 5.45×39 cartridge, is widely available, as is the ammo. this round is in effec the “commie .223,” quite cheap as surplus.
Wow, stoicheion is REALLY, smart and can look up crap on Wiki or some such really well!
Your argument is a total non sequitur, completely unresponsive to what I said no matter how “contrary” you think it might be. The AR platform is much more expensive and very finicky compared to the AK. The Third World punks like the AK because it was designed to be built by drunks and used by idiots and is thus ideal for drug runners and various thugs; I’m surprised that Comrade Obama hasn’t ordered his security detail to use them.
Narcos use all types of guns, but the WASR with the 7.62 round is the staple for the front line sicario looking to put a rival in the grave.
The narco war is an ambush war. Most victims that die “in the saddle” are shot in or near their vehicle. “Halcones” or lookouts notify awaiting sicario killers when they site an enemy. The sicarios then speed off in an attempt to intercept the victim. The prefered outcome is 3 guys emptying an AK47 clip into the vehicle.
The premium is put on a powerful bullet that will penetrate the doors and still pack a punch when hitting a protective vest.
On the open road a shootout can ensue. In town, it is over in the blink of an eye.
I have never seen this happen, but I have connections in Mexico and this is what they tell me.
Kidnapping for Ransom is also a big problem in Mexico. Doctors and businessmen are starting to armour up their vehicles so as to be able to avoid kidnapping.
I think you guys might be missing an important point about the cartels’ weapons of choice. As has been pointed out, a lot of the cartels’ soldiers (and possibly even mid-level commanders) probably don’t have a lot of actual weapons training and I doubt they sit around debating the merits of various platforms. Maybe there’s a demand for AR models because the uneducated peasant soldiers the cartels employ think they look “cool.” Think about all those gang bangers in the US that hold their pistols sideways for the same reason. Maybe to them, the AK is the Toyota Corolla to the AR’s Porsche…who knows? I’ve also seen local militias and police in various third world countries tote around RPG’s, often without more than one round, for the same reason.
To quote the fictional Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway: “This is the AK-47, the preferred weapon of your enemies. It makes a distinctive sound when fire at you.”
The AK is the cool weapon not the AR-15.
Not to further muddy the waters in the eternal AR vs. AK argument but…
There are millions of both in central and south america left over from the cold war!
I want all of you to ponder that for a moment: THERE ARE MILLIONS OF THEM.
AKs are being manufactured as we speak in venezuela. Select fire, no need for conversion.
Yet the cartels “need” guns from gun stores? These guns are semi only and require a conversion that can be as costly as the gun itself?
No, none of this adds up
Am I a bad person for enjoying the facg that Obama is having another bad week?
I hope that the Supreme Court releases several decisions that the administration doesn’t like, but I’m a bit conflicted, I want this story to get the airtime it deserves.
Don, pull up a desk and join the rest of us in the back of the classroom. At least this crowd knows what’s going on.
Repeat after me: I’m such a baad boy.
Elect a criminal thug as president; get a president who governs like a criminal thug. (shrug) And this won’t change the minds of more than 3 or 4 people in the lemming herd who still support him.
….davidinvirginia…..hello, and thank you for saying that in so many words…..I’m pecking this post from out across the Potomac in Deepest Central Maryland.
Surely you’ll remember snortin’ Mayor Marion Barry? Re-elected despite that videotape?
Let’s pray that these lemmings will be out-voted by the adults this coming November.
In that vein (pun alert!) I’ll paste here a startling exchange I had with the Vodka Pundit under his headline,
“2. Charlie Griffith
This,
…”Hold Your Nose and Vote for Obama.”
…..is just about the silliest and most irresponsible, adolescent minded comment I’ve yet seen at PJMedia.
Is it supposed to be witty?
June 19, 2012 – 5:40 pm Link to this Comment | Reply
Stephen Green
No, it’s the essence of what none other than Van Jones said at Netroots last week, which you’d have known if you had bothered to watch the Trifecta before commenting.
June 19, 2012 – 5:47 pm Link to this Comment | Reply
Charlie Griffith
Liberals holding their noses and planning on voting for their Obama in spite of his alarming lack of substance, and amplified by his Oval Office tenure for the past two years or so, apparently based upon his ‘charismatic’ half-Blackness before or after any particular year, any year at all in his curious and partially unexamined, varied life……remains irresponsible and adolescent. It’s casting a precious vote into a gutter. It’s a different kind of spite, it’s a stick-it-to-the-”man”-attitude.
Video pundits are included, those who stoop so low on camera to offer up such “comments” on such an alarming President. It’s a disservice (even) to the record of Jimmuh Cahtuh.
Washington D.C. once had a notorious Black Mayor, Marion Barry, who was lionized during his escapades with women, and then snuffing up heroin on a video, no less; an icon of the Liberals in the District. Those who may’ve gleefully held their noses and voted to re-elect him Mayor exercised such an adolescent attitude toward their vote. I think he’s still on some elected Committee or other in the District.
It’s enough to justify the reverting to 18th Cent. property-holding rules for voting privileges.
Stephen Green
If I may paraphrase Dan Ackroyd…
Charlie, you ignorant slut.
None of us said any such thing, which you would know if you had read my response to your first comment slowly enough to comprehend it. Or, having comprehended it, perhaps you just couldn’t bother yourself to Google “Van Jones” if you couldn’t place the name.
Either way, I’m begging you to please stop embarrassing yourself in a public forum.
June 19, 2012 – 7:00 pm…..”
End paste.
“The weapons at issue are not fit for an army and real Mexican “violent cartels” wouldn’t be caught dead with or waste money on expensive US legal gunstore guns.”
I’ve seen some pics of dead cartel goons who had what appeared to be civi AR15s. The cartels in the south of mexico seem to use more Russian hardware from Central America, but in the north they use some US civi type stuff.
I’ve seen mexican federal police armed with AKs with civi 40 round mags. You see a wide mix of smallarms in Mexico and Central America.
Automatic weapons of US provenance, AR platforms and others, are common with Mexican law enforcement and their military, which, of course, means a LOT of them are stolen and in the hands of bad guys. In the tourist spots in Mexico in recent years there’s an 18-20 year old with an AR or similar on practically every corner; don’t think there’s much law, but there’s one Helluva lot of order.
My point was to the extent the media covered F&F at all, they had picture after picture of black, ugly, scary AK platform weapons and some reports made an especially big deal about the AK platform Saiga shotguns. Well, a “sporting” US legal Saiga 12 guage over the last few years has run anywhere from $500 to nearly $1000 in US gunstores. When I bought mine in 2/11, the best price I could find was $749. The 7.62 x 39 AK platform weapons in US legal “sporting” form run from $500 or so to many multiples of that depending on source, conversion quality, and accessories. US legal AR platform weapons are somewhat more expensive than their AK counterparts and stolen automatic AR platform weapons are not easy to get in the US, though I’m told they’re not uncommon in SW Asia and Africa, though they’re not very desirable because they are so maintenance intensive compared to AKs. Frankly, an AK is designed to be made by a drunk and used by an idiot, so they’re very reliable even in the hands of Third World punks. ARs take skill and maintenance.
Don, it’s hard to tell just from pics whether a weapon is an AR 15 or an M16. About the only outward differences in appearance is the bolt assist and the third position on the safety lever on the M16. I’m not sure but I believe they have reinstated the bolt assist on the civilian model too so that makes it even harder. Oh, and there is also the bayonet lug on the M16 that was removed from the AR 15 and possibly the flash suppressor also removed. Not sure on that one.
Modern civilian ARs can be made indistinguishable from the military version to anyone but a serious AR wonk (I can’t tell them apart myself), and some have the third selector position marked on the receiver for appearance sake, although it doesn’t work.
THE PRESIDENTS’ HALL OF SHAME
The trajectory of the Obama presidency was downhill from the start when he became the first president in history to fumble the oath of office-doing so on the word “faithfully.” Now as the hour glass on his presidency runs out Obama is moving fast and furiously to presidential infamy soon to join Herbert Hoover, LBJ and Jimmy Carter in the one term presidents’ HALL OF SHAME.
“Executive privilege is a vestige of Richard Nixon’s desperate effort to conceal criminality in the Watergate scandal.”
This could very well be Obama’s Watergate. Question is, will it come to a head before November, or will it become a moot point if Obama is defeated in November? Watergate was only prosecuted in Congress because Nixon got re-elected. But if Obama loses, his whole cabinet (especially Holder) will be forced to resign. So if Congress pursues this into next year they would be going after private citizens, not sitting cabinet members or the president. It would be like prosecuting Nixon AFTER he left office. Would Romney actually do that? Would Congress stand for it? Hard question to answer.
I don’t think a damned thing is going to come of all this. With the Senate in Democrats’ hands, the Pubs are going to sit on theirs. Remember too, the principles of affirmative action serve as a forcefield that surround both Obama & Holder through which no one is going to try to go.
Pray Obama loses this November. It’s our country’s only hope.
What now? Will we ever find out what Holder and Obama are hiding? Is this the end of “Fast and Furious”?
” What a web we weave when at first we practice to deceive!” or “The Truth Wills out” or
“Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee” or God offers to every mind its choice between truth and repose. Take which you please – you can never have both. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson or “If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.” Mark Twain or “There are three types of lies — lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Benjamin Disraeli.
One way or the other “those aforementioned Chickens” are now in a flight path that will take them to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
err somebody over there check your collective “6″
The “similarities” to the Bush administration policy are the equal to the similarities of chicken and cheese.
The ONLY thing that Wide Receiver does for Fast and Furious is give it spurious and specious “cover” through the Propaganda and Lies Ministry assault of distortion upon the American public, when they finally get around to covering the story through lies and distortion as opposed to covering it up through ignoring it and failing to advise the public.
IF…the shredding of the Constitution that has occurred by, through and under this administration and the Marxist Party in the Senate, Supreme Court and that aids and abets them in their tyranny had been undertaken by a non-Marxist administration, there would be 1864060 Pulitzer nominations for all the “exposure” pieces done unveiling the criminal and quasi-criminal behavior that has taken place in the last four or five years…including that which took place during the campaign…when the credit card check was shut off and foreign money was allowed to funnel into the coffers of the Marxists.
The overthrow is in full gear.
The suggestion that a President didn’t know a thing about this gun running to drug cartel fiasco, but can claim executive privilege in order to cover it up is rich. And I don’t mean Mark Rich.
Holder isn’t a lackey in the play, he’s a conspirator. As is the Propaganda and Lies Ministry.
Here are the facts:
1)The administration KNEW that guns were being run to Mexican drug cartels.
2)The administration got caught.
3) The administration has covered up their complicity.
4) There is not a damn thing Congress and the Supreme Court can…or will…do to stop the tyranny of this administration.
Furthermore, the American people will NOT get investigative information from the mass media outlets who are conspiring to keep the truth from them.
5)Voting this administration out of power is the ONLY effective measure to stop the tyrannical abuse, the attempted overthrow, and to save the Constitution.
I repeat, the House has NO ability to stop this administration. The Supreme Court has NO ability to stop this administration. The Senate is a co-conspirator, the mass media is a co-conspirator.
I hope and pray that, if…by some miracle…we take back the White House and the Senate, that we root out and investigate ALL the attempts to plant the seeds of our destruction…the work wouldn’t be over then, but just beginning.
And…if we don’t win back this government of ours, there isn’t a prayer strong enough to save us.
If Obama loses prosecution needs to continue. We’re talking about hundreds of innocent people dying from this ill conceived operation.
Even Holder agreed in his testimony that more people will die in the future because of all the guns still unaccounted for.
Is stupidy an excuse for murder?
It was not stupidity. It was an intentional criminal act.
Murder most foul.
This was not just those hundreds whose deaths CAN be traced to the F&F weapons. Over 50,000 deaths can be attributed to the cartels and the vast majority of those killed died through the use of American bought weapons. While the Obama
aministration was not responsible for most of the weapons smuggled into Mexico, what he did was lard the pig and lie about it.
It still helps to keep your facts straight. With the exception of US military arms provided to the Mexican government and stolen or captured by the cartels, a very small part of the weapons used in the drug wars in Mexico are from the US. As mentioned previously, by far the bulk of them are black-market weapons originating in Asia, or from arms dealers selling the tons of stuff, mostly Russsian, available in the third world.
Libertyship46:
The Republicans lack the spine, killer instinct, and allies in the MSM to pull a Nixon on Obama. Fast & Furious will ultimately be left to the historians to figure out… two generations from now.
OBAMA’S OMINOUSLY BAD TIMING
ON THIS DAY JUNE 20, 1972
The infamous 18 minute gap appeared in the tape recording of the conversations between Richard Nixon and his advisers regarding the recent arrests of his operatives while breaking into Watergate. This set off quite a firestorm like Obama’s Doc Block is doing now. Does the most deceitful president since Richard Nixon have a Watergate size scandal on his hands that will totally ruin his reelection? Or cause his to resign?
Nixon’s Watergate was a petty burglary. Obama’s F+F is mass murder.
well well, ten thousand tiny, small, medium and not-so-medium cuts to the Constitution now are joined by a really big one.
If the Dept of Injustice has done nothing wrong, then there is no reason to withhold any information. Au contraire, as Mr McCarthy says, we would be lining up to see the movie extravaganzas about how the justice warriors thrwarted the evil Bush.
This will cause Dopey, Sleepy and the other dwarfs some problems.
It may be just a silly hunch, but I think we may see the race card played on this one.
I feel so sorry for all of those loyal viewers at NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC & CNN. These “news” networks have completely covered up the story, so they will be completely blindsided by the issue. Who knows, maybe around the water cooler tomorrow when they are talking about it and wondering what it all is about, a loyal Fox viewer can fill them in on the details.
This may end up being an “WTF” moment for a lot of these viewers, and maybe some of them will switch their viewership because they have been kept in the dark. I recall that NeoNeocon’s conversion from token liberal to firm conservative was spurred by her finding that the conservative news sources were much more factual and accurate when reporting the aftermath of 9/11.
Bryan Preston’s column today nails that.
At first, my stomach absolutely sank when I read that Drudge headline this morning, but now, I’m feeling a lot better. Obama is going to regret this.
It was a big weekend for the conspiracy this. The Chicago Tribune reports: “President Obama, family, attend wedding in Chicago” http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-16/news/sns-rt-us-obama-weddingbre85g01j-20120616_1_tony-balkissoon-president-obama-michelle-obama
Surely a feeling of bonhomme and brotherhood enmeshed all.
The White House has expressly invoked “deliberative process” executive privilege. Which seems to directly implicate Obama or Biden was in the loop, since executive privilege doesn’t extend to everybody just POTUS and VPOTUS.
If there is nothing to hide there is nothing to hide.
What we are seeing here is that President Obama’s Administration is no different from a past Republican Administration — Richard Nixon’s.
If Richard Nixon had a son, he’d look like Barack Obama.
Fast & Furious was a criminal conspiracy by high level political and civil servants in Federal Law Enforcement to transfer guns to Mexican Drug cartels for the express purpose of building political support for more gun control laws in a Republican Congress.
There’s enough in the documents Chairman Issa is asking for to put all of the top guys at Justice in prison, and to impeach Obama.
The key question during Watergate was the President knowingly shielding malfeasance. It’s the thing Obama can be reasonably suspected of and by his actions on executive privledge today is confirming.
Nixon’s actions showing he was shielding malfeasance was what flipped the House Judiciary Committee in 1974 and decided them on impeachment rather than further investigation.
It also caused one of the great political speeches of the last fifty years by Rep. Barbara Jordan, which if Chairman Issa and House Republicans are half smart they’ll be dragging out excerpts from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_K9Wi-g3Rk
(That’s an excerpt from Great American Speeches, which may be the best single video documentary of the history of American rhetoric ever. Sound quality is better than on any other YouTube of the speech; there’s about 2 min of background about Watergate, and a 3 min bio of Jordan, before the actual speech begins at about 5 min into it).
AG Holder connection to Fast and Furious is so serious because the charge is at its heart the knowing subvertion the Constitution for political gain (and incidentally getting a lot of people killed).
Democrats (specifically including the MSM) are now going to get their turn with “Thier” Nixonian President.
Good luck with that, Democrats, you are going to need it.
Barack Milhous Obama. At least Watergate didn’t have a body count!
OMG – OBAMA MUST GO!
Congratulations !
That is exactly the kind of ideas we need to storm the Country with a wind of salvation !
It’s popular, it’s used millions of times a day.
OMG ! Obama Must Go !
Barack Obama and Eric Holder are responsibly for the mass murder of Mexicans. Months ago the guns they ran were recovered in over 200 murders. By now it’s probably over 400. Not more than 10% of the time, if that, would the gun used in a murder there be recovered, so the number of Mexicans murdered by Obama and Holder probably exceeds the number of Americans murdered by AlQ on 9/11.
We’ll know when things are about to blow; Jesse Jackson will show up at the White House for a prayer session.
Good! One!, carla!
This is not the Clinton administration. Look for the arrival of a liberal white pastor.
Unfortunately GW Bush’s multiple uses of Executive Privilege hurt us in winning the appropriate public outrage of this event. We will certainly argue that GW’s uses were for different or perhaps less critical matters. Nevertheless the left will grab onto this as “this is the same thing Bush did, and in fact Bush did it 5 or 6 times”. We need a good retort to that argument, because it will surely be used in the news tonight. “the invocation of Executive Privilege, a tactic that the Bush Administration used on multiple occasions….”.
Otherwise, keep at it Andy! Yours and others efforts so far have brought this from a little-known issue that only the blogs talked about to perhaps the leading story on the national news tonight.
Can the house still hold Holder in contempt?
If correspondence by or with the president were involved in the case, as the invocation of executive privilege implies, then Holder definitely lied to Congress, and it seems he should be smacked with contempt.
If the President can ignore congress and make up laws of his own, can’t congress ignore him and go its own way as well?
Yes. It’s called a constitutional crisis. Or something like that.
Ooops. I forgot the reply button.
That was in answer to #28.
…a “kangaroo court,” saying it was designed to result in a contempt citation from the start as a way to get at Mr. Obama. They and other Democrats complained that the panel was ignoring its mission of coming up with reforms, like finding ways to strength laws to combat gun trafficking along the Southwestern border.
Legitimate gun dealers in the southwest were told by government honchos it was ok to sell about 2000 weapons to straw purchasers, which weapons were then walked into Mexico with nary a trace made on any of them…that’s certainly a way to “combat gun trafficking along the SW border”.
Sure is, uh huh.
At that meeting (yesterday), in an effort to avert the contempt vote, Mr. Holder had offered to turn over some of the documents over which Mr. Obama asserted executive privilege the next day.
Wrong again, NYTimes. Holder offered to turn over a summary of selected documents, his own summary, in exchange for Issa’s committee completely dropping the investigation into F&F.
But Mr. Cole, in his letter, said the department had already “substantially complied” with the subpoena.
Not even close to being true, Mr. Cole, Deputy AG.
The same Mr. Cole who conveyed today the president’s assertion of executive privilege.
Gross, Shocking, Ugly
“What did the President know, and when did he know it?”
Barack Obama has wanted to disenfranchise Americans of Fast their 2nd Amenment Rights from before he was POTUS.
He told Mrs. Brady that they were “working under the radar” on gun control.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to add 2 + 2.
Hillary should start practicing her acceptance speech for July.
We feared that the Obama administration would be a repeat of Carter. We never imagined that it might start like Carter and end like Nixon.
And yet, that may be the path we’re on.
This F., and F., is just another part of the agenda. Now, DaOne has to hide the evidence in order to keep the truth away from a Nationalist.
The Bull Dike at Homeland states military vets are the danger to America. No, they are a danger to globalists who arm drug gang members, flood America with illegal aliens, and members of the religion of death, and do not uphold the Constitution.
This election is going to be a landslide with a large group of Tea Party members being swept in to stop the destruction of this country.
They really don’t want you to see what is in those documents.
I don’t know about that. While this crew seems relentlessly incompetent, it is possible that this is all a sting. It will get hyped up and then Barry will release the documents and say, “See? Nothing there at all. Just a GOP ploy to waste money and time.”
No, I don’t believe it, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility.
More likely is a partial release of carefully selected documents, followed with the, “See, nothing there!”.
Bill and Hillary did this all the time. A possibility.
It could also just be a ploy to delay the release past Nov 6.
I’ve long suspected that one motive for this crime was to fabricate “evidence” to “prove” that our 2nd amendment is to blame for Mexico’s violence. I believe sympathy for UN-style gun control is another motive.
A remarkable and very lousy day for the Obama Administration.
Will it come out in the open that they sold weapons to the worst kind of people to achieve a domestic agenda?
Will there be criminal repercussions?
Hopefully, this will drain away enough support for The One on its own to finish his chances on November.
How does the executive (the president) assert privilege over something in which everyone claims he was not involved? Can he extend executive privilege to anyone in his cabinet?
One thing that we have missed, in our collective astonishment at this development of exectuve privilege, is the speed with which the White House made this decision.
Interesting, eh?
I don’t know about that. While this crew seems relentlessly incompetent, it is possible that this is all a sting. It will get hyped up and then Barry will release the documents and say, “See? Nothing there at all. Just a GOP ploy to waste money and time.”
If he does that, Congress can throw back the “waste of money and time”. If the documents had just been provided in October 2011 when they asked for them, this would be a done deal. Just saying.
“And, again, if the Obama administration’s story was true, they would want to release the documents that support it.” The story is a lie right out of the box.
Then there is this from the WSJ:
“White House spokesman Eric Schultz said Mr. Obama’s reasoning was similar to that of former Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. Mr. Schultz said the other presidents ‘protected the same category of documents we’re protecting today,’ meaning after-the-fact internal materials.”
So the White House says in effect, because Georgy and Billy did it they can do it too. As if all things are equal except they are not. Once again Mr. President; there are dead people on your watch that you are responsible for. Obama will pay for your behind the scenes trickery to do an end run around the 2nd Amendment. The truth always wins in the end and the President is a liar and a loser. November is coming soon.
I cannot help noting that the Obama campaign has finally come up with something very likely to distract attention from the Romney campaign’s narrative about how badly the economy is doing. It remains to be seen whether, from Obama’s point of view, the cure turns out to be worse than the disease.
What did the president know and when did he know it?
Yep — they’ve raised the stakes.
The realization that F+ F is truly serious is, of course, good — and so is the relentless logic of this article. But…reality check:
Issa [and a few colleagues have] been heroic in pursuing this investigation at a time when Republicans have been generally feckless in challenging Obama’s abuses of power.
…and what’s the chance the ‘leadership’ will change tune? What does it take to get Boehner out of his tanning booth and away from his ashtray? The best way to preserve the perks and status quo is to do nothing except cower before the media. No surprise there, but even the most gung-ho fan must feel the need to ignore Romney’s silence, now deafening.
It’s the old “get away with it” script. Back in the bad old days Hollywood made movies for Blacks that always showed the hero/villain attempting a crime against the man “Not getting away with it” So blacks began to feel like a black man couldn’t “get away with it” The main ideal was then to “get away with it” what ever “It” was. POTUS Obama will like Holder “get away with it” because if they don’t “get away with it” it would be Racism.
The folks in charge now in DC do not expect to lose this election, by hook, by crook or coup America will suffer these liberal communist crooks for a long time to come.
Tricky Dick Nixon would e proud of BHO. This might well lead to similar outcomes.
Executive Privilege? The Department of Justice allowed guns to be sold and delivered to Mexican drug cartels.
The barbaric drug cartels work very closely with the A team of Muslim terrorists: Hezbollah.
MURDER is against the Law. Hundreds of Mexican innocents and U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry were MURDERED by the guns supplied by the Obama-Clinton-Holder George Soros administration.
Where is justice? Why are the guilty not being prosecuted for the murders of HUNDREDS of INNOCENTS?
Bible, Genesis 4:10 And God said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries out to Me from the ground”.
f & f is an international problem. holder will turn over evidence to interpol. interpol will not allow access to evidence received rom holder. obama amended exec. order 12425. Interpol’s property and assets are no longer subject to search and confiscation, and its archives are now considered inviolable. Thanks cass substien
Operation Fast and Furious had, from the very beginning, been planned as a two-part campaign. The first part, the Fast and Loose part, consisted of soft-walking guns from border states, through straw buyers, to cartels. If any gunshop owner became alarmed, his ATF minder told him to chill.
This first part was a rip-roaring success. But before part two, the Furious Assault on the 2nd Amendment, could kick off, everything blew up in Obama’s face.
His essential failure was to maintain the fiction that this was a local operation carried out by local ATF agents. No higher-ups knew anything. But when this fiction started unravelling, Holder went into stone-walling mode.
Again, they made the wrong call. This close to the election, Obama couldn’t afford a wrong step. His hope was that Congress would move on to other things.Indeed, Boehner was not exactly happy to be saddled with a contempt proceedings. But, the man Issa not for turning.
And now that Obama has invoked executive privilege, Boehner has gotten greatly interested. Obama has stumbled and is staggering about like a punch-drunk boxer.
In the world of crime, as in the world of politics, nobody gets something for nothing. So who in the administration got what from the Sinaloa cartel in return for all the guns? Is anybody asking?
Oh, the minds of little men—IF Obama & Holder thought this would just ‘disappear’ into the haze of the election year chaos, well, they’re probably very wrong about that. Obama essentially admitted, by the very act of invoking privilege, that’s he’s in this up to his skawny neck; hopefully this is the issue that choaks him so that at least the thinking dem’s will say ENOUGH!
TIME to END the ERROR of OBAMA.
There can be no doubt for objective honest people that Obama and Holder are near the top in being two of the worse thugs we have ever had in Government!
I agree with everything in the article up to the accusation of this being done deliberately in order “to promote the Left’s political argument that American Second Amendment rights are the cause of international violence.” I guess this could be true, but I see no evidence indicating this at this point, nor if it were true, would they have written this down. So, don’t think they are hiding anything like this. The most likely scenario is that this operation was run with Holder’s full knowledge, consent, and endorsement and his failure shows him to be an incompetent. There doesn’t have to be any grand conspiracy. I do wonder if Obama wasn’t also involved in some way, as well. I can’t think of any other reason why he doesn’t just hang Holder out to dry. By bringing himself into the cover up, Obama seems to be claiming knowledge of and involvement in the operation. I guess Holder might have dirt on Obama or one of his cronies and he’s holding this over the presidents head, or maybe Obama has a suicidal sense of loyalty. I don’t know.
I will tell you what they are hiding-emails and memo’s detailing how “Fast and Furious was a set up to have more gun control here in the US because so many US origin weapons were showing up in Mexico. Chicago gun control on steroids, Obama, Jarrett, Axelrod;dirty politics with all the trimmings.
2,000 guns sold to Mexican drug cartels, hundreds of dead Mexicans and at least one U.S. Border Patrol Agent dead. The Obama Administration stone-walling Congress in it’s oversight role to determine who, exactly, approved this disaster.
If ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS and NPR refuse to report on this story and continue to send slobbering kisses to Obama, they will deserve even more widespread contempt than they currently enjoy.
Quite true. If a repub administration had pulled a boner even remotely as bad as this one, it would be leading the news every day. Same with the leaking scandall. Fortunately, with Fox and the blogosphere, we dont have to depend on the MSM to get out the truth now. The MSM may succeed in concealing the truth from some of the uninformed rubes, but at least they cannot keep us from finding out, or anybody else that has the brains and an open mind to actually look.
My recollection from watching hearings was that Bush gun-walked with prior notice and approval of the Mexican Government whereas Obama gun-walked without telling Mexico anything. Neither the WSJ article nor the blog makes this distinction.
My understanding of the Bush program is different. In that program there was no intent to actually let the guns walk, unlike F&F, and when they found out they were walking, due to some mistakes, they started pulling back on the Bush program. Then Holder revived it, and made it much bigger, with the intent right from the beginning to let the guns walk.
This is not to say that the Bush program was good, but that Obama/Holder took a bad idea and made it 10 times worse. And once again, it is typical of Obama to blame Bush yet again, to avoid his own responsibility. Obama should have a new campaign slogan “vote Obama, he is only moderately more awful than Bush”. The pattern I constantly see with Obama is to take every bad Bush idea, and make it 10 times worse, while adding a bunch of new bad ideas that Bush didn’t think of.
In Operation Wide Receiver, the firearms’ locations were being monitored by radio tracking devices. Once the feds realized that the buyers were aware of that and taking effective countermeasures, they stopped the program.
In Operation Fast and Furious, the firearms’ locations were never monitored, in any way, shape, or form. The ATF agents who tried to track the firearms were called off, ordered to drop the tracking.
Republicans claim that guns don’t kill people, people do.
The silver lining in F&F may well be that Republicans now claim that guns actually do kill people.
Lame and wrong. People -especially “bad guys”- kill people. Will arming bad guys make them MORE likely or LESS likely to kill people, hmm? Is arming said bad guys a good idea? Further, do members of drug cartels not qualify as “bad guys”?
Some people beleive that Obama and Holder purposely started F&F to support the false meme leftists like you are spouting here. If they had been able to keep it secret, people might have thought that the mexican drug gangs were getting their guns because US gun laws were too lax, instead of the truth, that they were getting them from our own gov. Before the truth on F&F came out the administration was pushing that very theme, that we must tighten gun control to keep the guns away from mexico. Of course now we know that story was false, and the cartells were getting their guns from our own incompetant/treasonous gov.
And the NRA is right, bad people kill people, good people do not. So while you should keep guns away from the bad people, there is no reason at all to keep them away from the good people. And since we beleive that people in this country are innocent until proven guilty, people have the right to have guns until they prove otherwise.
No, the whole point of the F&F investigation is discovering WHO arranged the guns to be available to be used as tools for murder.
You hide what hurts you, you show what helps you. Just more documents to go along with the college transcripts that must have a hurting about them. Just sayin’.
I saw on TV an interesting idea — that F&F was deliberately “designed” to be “botched” in an effort to further an anti-gun agenda. It would explain why Holder stonewalled and delayed and Obama’s use of executive privilege — because they were involved at least in the policy and approval of the operation. Naturally, this appeals to conspiracists, but it is not so far fetched when it held alongside Obama’s own memoirs “Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance,” made up of composite “characters” and some things that never happened at all.
McCarthy cites some excellent analogies as to why there is a cover-up in progress. Like Watergate, Nixon was part of the cover-up, not the break-in which resulted in obstruction of justice and abuse of power charges. As Nixon was voted into his second term with a landslide 61% of the vote, he let it slip away………..Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely.
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Here is the thing. Everyone covers their a**. That’s about it. Even Mr McCarthy. I love McCarthy but he too is protecting his friends. Sometime during the Bush administration, and certainly during this administration, some people – I have no idea who they were – got an idea. That idea was that if we gave the cartels guns, when they used those guns our case against them in court would be stronger, and we could perhaps trace the guns from the person we gave them to to the person who used them gun and perhaps flesh out better the structure of the cartels.
Everyone is the sophisticate. Rule one – you do not give guns to the criminals. The reason for this is we want to take the criminals and their guns out. Don’t people ever think if some of their ideas are ridiculous? I don’t mean if some of their ideas are wrong. Anyone could be wrong. I mean ridiculous.
The whole thing is beyond disgusting. So much for Obama’s promise to have “the most open administration in US history”.
Even though I have always disagreed with many of Obama’s policies, I used to like him and think he was a decent guy. No longer. These days I wouldn’t believe him if he told me what time of day it was. He’s just another scumbag politician from the south side of Chicago. I still can’t believe that we, as a nation, were stupid enough to elect him.
“I still can’t believe that we, as a nation, were stupid enough to elect him.”
His election, given the conditions at the time, was actually a likely event, and even a reasonable decision for many people, because:
1. At the time, the repub brand was badly tarnished, because of the mistakes of Bush 2, and some repub corruption scandals, and people were looking for something different.
2. McCain was a weak candidate in many ways.
3. Obama, with plenty of moderate sounding statements and promisses (like transparency and promissing a balanced budget in 4 yrs, and doing health care without a mandate and in bipartisam fashion), with some collobaration from the media (who never properly vetted either his book, his radical past, his lack of experience, or his unrealistic promisses), was able to conceal his extreme leftist views, and present himself as a moderate alternative to Bush.
The only truly unreasonable possibility, given what we all know about Obama now, like the fact that all of his glowing moderate sounding promisses turned out to be lies, would be if he won reelection. Its the old saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Fortunately I think many of the rubes have finally woken up, and enough have finally decided to not listen to the carnival barker again. But if he does win again, I fear for our country, both because of what he will do to us in a 2nd term, where he no longer has to worry about elections, and because it would be apparent that the public is no longer capable of electing responsible capable leaders.
But I am choosing to be optomistic because I think Obama has damaged the dem brand just as badly as Bush damaged the repub brand, and because of that, the dems could be headed to a 2nd huge defeat, just as bad as 2010. And in order to be compeditive again in the future they will have to internally reform, in the same way the Tea Party reformed the repubs. And dont count on OWS for reform, those guys are a bunch of anarchist boobs. I think any dem reform movement will have to be based on a committment to still support significant gov services and regulation, but to deliver them more efficiently at lower cost and impact on business, with no corrupt cronyism and public employee union featherbedding, to support environmentalism, but without the extreme radical environmentalists (the crucify business, socialistic, mother gaia above the welfare of any human crowd), and to just have a real committment to electing people that can deliver honest competant government. The dem party does have a real place in our political dialog, but only if they can reform themselves enough so we can afford to trust them with the purse strings again. I didn’t often agree with Bill Clinton, but at least I respected his competance, and his ability to be reasonable and compromise, and I did not have the feeling he was actively leading the country to ruin by sheer incompetance, clueless blind idealogy, and corruption. I think Bill was right when he privately said to Hillary that Obama was a lightweight who would ruin the dem party, and had to go.
Obamas claim of executive privalege suffers from a fatal contradiction.
1. The executive privaledge doctrine only applies to conversations between the president and his cabinet and high advisors. It would not apply to any deliberations or controversey enterely within a cabinet department.
2. Obama and Holder claim they knew nothing about F&F until the story went public, and Holders public denials to congress were honest mistakes. Thus according to Obamas and Holders own public statements, executive privaledge would not apply, since any conversations would have been below their level.
This leads to only 2 logical possibilities:
1. According to Obamas own words, his ececutive privaledge claim is completely bogus, since all conversations were below his and Holders level, and the executive privaledge claim should be rejected.
2. There are documents that are covered by executive privaledge, in which case Obamas and Holders statements that they knew nothing until the public did are lies, Holder perjured himself before congress, and they were engaging in a coverup. In this case, executive privaledge still does not apply, since according to Nixon precedent it cannot cover criminal conduct, like lying to congress.
Oba Ma Kenobi (waving executive privilege at GoP stormTroopers) : You don’t need to see his identification. These are not the documents you’re looking for. He can go about his business. Move Along.
Amusing analogy, but not quite apt. For one thing Obewan had some ethics, Obama does not, and the storm troopers are working for Obama, not the repubs. The part about using mind control to tell lesser minds to move on and ignore the obvious is true, except the lesser minds are the kool aid drinkers in the media, academia, hollywood, and deluded dems.
Most likely, the administration was playing the Fast and Furious game with the intention of undermining 2nd Amendment gun ownership rights. They probably have some internal memos pushing this point. They probably intended that gun violence would turn public opinion against assault weapons. I seem to remember Hillary Clinton making those arguments early on in the administration with regards to violence coming from Mexico. They probably never intended that a US border control agent would be killed, but they wanted to tie violence in Mexico with guns coming from the US. Anyone else remember Hillary’s comments to that effect?
Whatever the final outcome, speculation has it that before leaving office (if he does) Obama will pardon all involved in F&F and the cover up. IMHO Blago is sitting silently in jail waiting for his pardon after the election.
We need to revise the priciple of executive clemency to eliminate those conviced of political corruption, treason, tax evasion, transporting more than a certain amount of illegal drugs, voter fraud, etc. Political hacks will no longer be able to assure themselves of a “get out of jail free card”. They will receive the punishment they deserve…and likely be more willing to name names and implicate accomplices in their crimes.
Let’s end the pass given to the privileged and connected; equal justice for all, let the guilty suffer.
Obama will, undoubtedly, go down as the biggest liar and hypocrite, beside being also the most incompetent president in the U.S. history.
Andrew, will Holder, if indicted sing like a canary, or will he take one for the president and go to a country club facility for a year or a year and a half? If Holder sings a pretty song, will the House have the cojones to impeach and will the Senate convict, at which point we have to ask if criminal proceedings follow, accusing the president as an accomplice in 2nd degree murder?
Honestly, I don’t think there’s enough time for that. The election is in less than five months, and the Administration has already shown that it will drag their feet as much as possible. With the annual budget and the debt ceiling still hanging in the balance, Obama is likely going to be able to run out the clock until Election Day before being impeached. If we win the election, impeachment becomes nigh irrelevant, and the focus becomes the criminal charges he will face.
I’m sure this is a stupid question, but I really want the answer so hopefully someone here can educate me.
What stops Holder et. Al. from simply destroying the documents, be they soft or hard copy?
Frankly, if as seems likely they were looking to subvert the 2nd amendment why would they write any of it down in the first place? Seems like a “lets go for a nice walk and have a chat” type deal.
I don’t know that this is correct, but I suspect their incredible arrogance plays a role in this. They never really thought they’d be called on this and figured if someone found out, they could weasel their way out of it, with the complicity of most of the media. Obama clearly thinks he’s above the law and I believe Obama and Holder are two of a kind. Just my thoughts.
This article hits the nail squarely on the head! With the Administration deeply concerned about its chances this November, any evidence that could exonerate Holder, or the Administration, would have been “leaked” long ago. Why invest political capital meant only to hide their self-proclaimed innocence? Their stonewalling, and now silence, proves the obvious: they know they have political hot potato in their hands. And for those posting comparisons, and implied justification, to the previous Bush program, I have one simple truism to remind you of: two wrongs do not make a right.
Two great quotes come to mind, both by Dr. Martin Luther King. “An injustice to one is an injustice to all.” This was a man who cared about the rights of all people, a great man. Now we have a black President and a black US Attorney General, suddenly deny justice to a white border guard and his family. Pure racial discrimination as Holder has already shown not once but twice that he will not prosecute New Black Panthers for voter intimidation caught on video nor for putting out a bounty on a US civilian. Dr. King and others appear to have marched in vain. The other quote??
“justice too long delayed is justice denied.”–MLK
Carney says this is all Bush’s fault. So why don’t they release all the documents that will SURELY prove that????
Maybe because this was a scheme to show that all gun sales are evil and the country needs to be saved from itself by Obama and Holder (the new Choom Gang)–with new mega-restrictions on gun sales to yokels that spend their days clinging to their guns, religion, and banjo playing from the front porch, while opposing everything this noble administration tries to accomplish because we are all racists.
“The weapons at issue are not fit for an army and real Mexican “violent cartels” wouldn’t be caught dead with or waste money on expensive US legal gunstore guns.”
50 cal sniper rifles would not be looked down on by the average general or cartel leader.
Obama and Holder have something to hide, and we need to know what it is.
I believe F & F went all the way to the top…
This is the most corrupt administration I have ever seen, and many of you thought nixons Watergate was bad! LOL, childs play.
Just wondering – will Henry Waxman target Eric Holder for lying to Congress, just like he went after Roger Clemens? Won’t hold my breath on that one.
Keep remembering that Obama was elected by only 30% of registered voters. There was a 58% turnout and of the people who actually voted, 52% voted for Obama. Multiply 0.58 and 0.52 and you get 0.30. Just 30% of registered voters saddled us with Obama. Forget about the polls and just vote. He has not gained followers.
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