Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) asked the country’s top naval officer to explain how a Russian sub reportedly lurked around the Gulf of Mexico undetected.
The nuclear-powered attack submarine activity reportedly occurred in June and July, at the same time as incursions into U.S. airspace by Russian strategic bombers.
“If these reports are accurate, the repercussions are serious. It is my understanding that an Akula-class submarine can be armed with an array of weapons, including torpedoes and long-range cruise missiles, capable of destroying both U.S. nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers,” Cornyn wrote today to Admiral Jonathan Greenert, chief of naval operations at the Pentagon.
“The submarine patrol, taken together with the air incursions, seems to represent a more aggressive and destabilizing Russian military stance that could pose risks to our national security,” he added.
The member of the Senate Armed Services Committee framed the incident as “especially troubling” given the deep cuts President Obama has sought for antisubmarine defense systems.
“In light of the gravity of this situation, I request a detailed explanation of the facts surrounding these reports,” Cornyn asked the admiral.
In 2009, a pair of Russian subs patrolling off the East Coast raised concern among defense and intelligence officials.
See Commander (Retd.) Jennifer Dyer’s assessment of this (as well as her exchanges with readers in the comments) at her “Optimistic Conservative” blog. No, I’m not a sockpuppet — just a fan. If there’s anything Jennifer is thoroughly expert on, it’s this area.
“I request a detailed explanation of the facts surrounding these reports,””
Bad idea. The “detailed facts” are not the sort of thing you want loose on Capitol Hill.
1) It’s policy and always have been never to let on that you are or were tracking an adversary sub. Keep ‘em guessing, and don’t reveal your capabilities.
2) What was the Navy supposed to do, sink it?
YES! YES! AND YES AGAIN! What in hell do you think the Ruskies would have done to one of our subs. . . offered the crew vodka?
Whoa, there, Mr. Armchair Admiral.
I spent 12 years in nuclear submarines, back when the Soviet Navy really was a threat, and that isn’t how the game is played with forces that have nukes aboard.
Actually, the Russians, in my experience, once caught and convinced that the next thing to happen is going to involve kabooms and rushing water, will readily offer up at least a case of vodka, as well as any stolen arifacts they may have in their possession. They are reasonable folks, after all, if a bit treacherous and dishonest.
The Gulf is international water, outside the three mile limit. Its against the rules to kill Russian subs in international waters if there isn’t an actual war on. But I’m betting that the Russian was in more danger than he knew, because nothing moves in the waters of interest around the world that the US Navy doesn’t know about.
Having said all that, I said in 1992 that is would only be a matter of time before the Russians would be back in the game, running the same strategies they have employed since Ivan the Terrible out-mongoled the Mongols.
Gulf is also not a great place for subs to ‘lurk:’
- it’s relatively shallow over large areas, *and* relatively clear making visual detection of a shallow submerged boat *much* easier.
- Russkies probably don’t have all those drilling rigs well charted, and many of them are potentially extremely dangerous to a submerged boat . . .
- Soviet boats used to make regular port calls in Cuba; for Putin to want to wave his flag there is not an unprecedented provocation. If there was indeed an Akula in the Gulf, it’s most liely it is simply a demonstration of capability . . . we don’t have any subs or carriers stationed in Guld Ports.
- Our Navy may or may not have previously detected and observed this boat; we do not make a habit of publicly volunteering our capabilities.
Best Regards,
#2: The trouble isn’t that the Navy didn’t DO anything about it (you are correct; sinking it wasn’t an option), but that they took weeks to realize it was present. That IS kind of a problem, and one that the current administration’s policies are making worse.
If we had known it was there, there would have been a Los Angeles on its butt and nobody would have ever heard a word of this. Obviously, this scared Hell out of somebody not yet corrupted by the Obama Junta and the word leaked out. ‘Course, I haven’t seen anything about it on the nightly news.
What with the yellow-belly Black Kenyan, pretending to be president, you may have a point.
If I were you, I’d not be to quick to bite on that idea that our Navy wasn’t aware of that sub; or, a lot of other stuff that th’ media haven’t yet stridently, gleefully revealed.
Come to think of it, our media and this smelly Assange character seem to be competitors.
Obviously the answer is to bring Georgia into NATO, so the Russians can have Venezuela join the SCO in response. Spheres of influence are so 20th century Joe Biden and Condy Rice!
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20120817.aspx
August 17, 2012: Recently there was another media report of a Russian SSN (attack sub) that was alleged to have recently operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks. This attracted the attention of professional submariners (especially retired ones, who could post more freely on the Internet). It was quickly determined that this was likely a made up story as attempts to trace it back to the source ended at the politically funded, as in 501(C)4, web site.
Thanks for the link. Thanks also to “Bligeman” for his informative post.
This indeed sounds like a phony “the Russians are coming” story (perhaps someone with a vivid imagination recently saw the classic movie) intended to scare the sheeple. With OBL deceased, overwhelming opposition to the Afghan war, and the “hate Iran” propaganda campaign going rather poorly, TPTB might as well dust off the Cold War handbook, brand Putin as Stalin reincarnated, and claim “USSR 2.0″ is imminent if we don’t further bankrupt ourselves to avert this “crisis.”
“E-mer-gen-cy! Everybody to get from streets!” That’s still one of the greatest movie lines of all time!
I’m not worried about a russian nuclear sub in the slightest.
They don’t have to take any risks to get what they are going to be gifted on a silver platter anyway, once dear leader isn’t burdened by the necessity of having to trick the American people about whose side he’s on.
and I don’t mean that in a racist way, even though I can see how the word “trick” must sound terribly racist to anyone who is consumed 24x7x365 with finding racism is every rock and pebble on earth.
Dear Leader will end around the 22nd amendment and be given a 3rd term if he is unsuccessful in destroying us all in his rigged 2nd term.
When will you wingnuts finally submit to his greatness!
The term “trck” is more sexist than racist…unless you are suggestng that Someone elected to a Very High Office is actually a pimp. That might only be true if he is constantly surrounded by women like Valerie Jarrett.
Your word “pimp,” is on target. He tarted out as an activist “street whore,” channeling the hatred of his father? for America and the “White Man.”
Your math is off. It should be 24 x 7 x 52.
This doesn’t bother me. I’m not the expert, but I’d say stuff like this probably happens all the time. We just don’t hear about it. We snoop around their ocean, they snoop around ours. Read “Blind Man’s Bluff” by Sherry Sontag and Christopher Drew.
At worst, it represents a return to Cold War business as usual.
Speaking as a professional mariner, and one who sails the GoM monthly, I feel that someone should point out some facts of maritime life.
There is a long-held concept of international and United States law called “Freedom of Navigation”…as far as ANY non-belligerent nation’s ships, naval or merchant, are concerned, territorial waters end 12 miles out from the low-tide shoreline.
Since the GoM is, in fact if not in public perception, the high seas, a Russian attack boat had every right in the world to be there…just like OUR subs are perfectly free to enjoy keeping station in the Black Sea or the Barents…(they supposedly DO).
Now as to the naval aspects of the boat’s presence, I wouldn’t be overly concerned…you don’t start World War 3 with a single attack sub…and I have it on VERY good authority that there isn’t much that approaches our coasts that cannot go undetected for very long. This isn’t World War II, where German U-boats were sinking our ships a few miles from the sea buoys of Miami, Jacksonville, Norfolk, and the Southwest Pass of the Mississippi River.
Sorry, too many suppositions in your post. Let’s face it people, you are being attacked from within by Obama and submarined from outside by America’s enimies. This isn’t Carl Reiner’s “The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming!” This is for real! Wake up and smell the coffee, Americans. Obama is a traitor to America, who was brought to you, courtesy of the Democrat party.
Every post herein that is not unlawfully revealing classified information is a “supposition”.
So now allow me to speculate. Since the transition from a black shoe to a brown shoe Navy, almost beyond living memory, only carrier aviation gets the funding. ASWAN and minesweeping get the crumbs. Add to that the Marxist Commander in Chief’s instinctive sympathies, and leaving the GoM naked is plausible.
Did Ivan take an undetected cruise in a defenseless Gulf?
I don’t know.
But I’m absolutely certain that the likelihood of that event going to zero requires removing the Marxist and installing Mitt.
Pardon my ASW typo.
I’mna thinking okie dokie fine. Next time round invite them to N’awlins for jambalaya. Or Galveston for some ‘cue.
A friend who once was in a Signals Intelligence unit in the Army, made a funny comment once, the way he said it. Reminescing about his training on potential spies to watch out for, he said, “You could have a dumb, country bumpkin from rural Wisconsin, complete with a local dialect and slang, when all the while he is a freakin’ highly intelligent Russian spy, straight from Moscow.” During WW2, the Russians had at least one spy in every Cabinet department, at a high level. Reader’s Digest once had a story about a Russian spy who assumed the identity of a dead German soldier at the end of WW2, immigrated to Canada and became an accountant, later immigrated to America and became a citizen, and worked for a big defense firm. His son was training in Moscow to be a spy, when both his dad was discovered and arrested in the US. His son would have been a second generation, American-born citizen, Russian spy.
Barack Obama, or whatever his real name is, is in the White House without a birth certificate, or a solid Social Security number, and with a sketchy history. He could not have been an Army interpreter, because for the security clearance for that, you’d have to have both parents born in the US, and pass a year-long, million dollar background check and security clearance.
The Russians have to be laughing their posteriors off, every day. Their agents are undoubtedly now having a big hand in US military background checks and security clearances.
How fast do Russian attack sub nuclear cruise missiles fly? Even before the height of the Cold War, as the 1979 movie “First Strike” showed, only the SSBN’s at sea were safe from surprise attack. With today’s technology, the ICBM’s, bombers, and C3 could be pinpoint destroyed in minutes, especially if the military is not as vigilant in watching as it should be. How many dumb country bumpkins are in SSBN crews? Or intelligent country bumpkins even?
Good Post.
…….and, we mustn’t ever, ever omit our Muslim adversary right now, just because they don’t seem to have a unified-functional Navy. That sentiment is not as “off-topic” right here as it may first appear.
The Muslims are using the same subversive, penetrating, “second generation” strategy.
Those city bumpkins in Northern Virginia-istan and Dearborn-istan with their authentic accents and so forth are threatening our America in the same Cold War-esque way. Their madrassas and mosques are in effect, cells for young Muslim males.
The Muslim ‘difference’ seems to be akin to the idea of the Soviet satellite countries each fighting us disunited on separate fronts, not precisely as The “Soviet Threat”.
Equate the sects of Islam’s Muslims with the separate Soviet satellites. (alliteration unintentional)
We have a major, major problem emphasized just now by Obama’s dhimmitude, faux ecumenical Ramadan/Iftar gargling.
Dear Readers, can any of you imagine Franklin Roosevelt, ever the shrinking violet Liberal, making such a nauseous pronouncement on 08 December,1941……after that particular sneak air attack on American soil?
I still cringe when I (…a Bush supporter, both of ‘em….) think of Bush II’s naive statement something to the effect that Islam is a religion of Peace shortly after 11 September, 2001′s sneak aerial attacks on American soil.
Our contemporary truncated attention spans are so fixed upon the immediate “yesterday”. This is lethal.
If it actually happened, the most obvious reason for a Russian Shchuka-B class SSN to be in the Gulf is King’s Bay, GA. One of our two dedicated SSBN bases is there, and the best way to kill a boomer is when it’s in dock. Which makes a terrific target for Tomahawk-type, tube-launched cruise missiles.
The boat does carry cruise missiles in addition to torpedoes; in fact most boats in the class carry more missiles for tube reloads than they do torps. It actually has more space for CM reloads than originally anticipated, as the space designed in for the Shkval rocket-propelled torpedo is used for missiles, since the rocket torp project was cancelled after the loss of the Kursk.
Sending one of the Shchukas to do a sneak job, even as an exercise, makes sense, as they are about the quietest boats the Russians have, even allowing for the fact that most of them are over 15 years old. (Production at Komsomolsk ran from 1982 to 1995, and Severodvinsk built them from 1989 to 1994.)
As to why the Russians would run this, even as an exercise, the term “first strike” comes to mind. Our boomers have always worried them more than just about anything else in our nuclear arsenal, and if they were planning something “adventurous” (for which read “outstandingly stupid”), taking out as many of them as possible at one go would be a logical opening move.
Oh, by the way, the Russian Navy is now ramping up to deploy their first new class of boomers in almost two decades;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borei_class_submarine
Which sort of indicates that they are still very serious about nuclear warfighting capability. Our boomers do “deterrence patrol”. Theirs stay in port most of the time, and only deploy when they’re getting ready to do something else, and want their boomers “out in the blue” to keep anyone from getting too ambitious about interfering. (Just a point.)
PS- The reason I call the “Akula” by its proper Russian name is that the Russian Navy uses the name “Akula” to refer to the big honking boomer we call the “Typhoon”. I like to avoid confusion.
Source;
Pavlov, A.S. Warships of the USSR and Russia, 1945-1995. Annapolis, MD; Naval Institute Press, 1997. English-language edition of Voennye korabli SSSR i Rossii, 1945-1995. Translated by Gregory Tokar; English-language edition edited by Norman Friedman. ISBN 1-55750-671-X. P. 46.
cheers
eon
The Russians are waiting to transmit Obama to Vladimir in Nov.
RUSSIA OR OBAMA EITHER WAY WE THE PEOPLE WILL PAY DEARLY….REMEMBER THE OPEN MIKE?
Let’s see if I understand this story. The sub was not detected until it left the Gulf and somehow the duration of it’s presence there is known.
Yes Kim…and if geography serves me right…..its best to attack King`s Bay Georgia from the Gulf of Mexico rather than the Atlantic Ocean? LOL
Look up “multiple-axis attack”, sometime. Also consider that our air defenses are set up to detect attack coming from offshore, as opposed to inland, as was graphically demonstrated on 9/11/2001.
Cruise-missile shots across the isthmus from the Gulf would probably not be detected until it was too late.
It’s called “littoral warfare” for a reason.
cheers
eon
08/17/2012 Russia Gives No Comments on Submarine Detected off USA
http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15680
Texas Senator John Cornyn requested Pentagon to give explanations regarding recent press reports about a Russian submarine allegedly deployed off the US coast for several weeks, reports Lenta.ru referring to the Texas on the Potomac blog of the Houston Chronicle. Cornyn sent a letter with such request to US Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert.
http://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15688